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Here on this podcast, we rely a lot on our ability to speak and say words and for people to be able to hear our words.
So I have to ask you, Jason, as we're diving in, in your mind, does Frankenstein's creature speak and is he articulate or does he not speak?Divisive question, I think.
I think it tells me a lot about where you met this character and what your expectations are about whether or not you think he speaks.
I didn't know that people had strong opinions about whether Mr. Stein spoke or not.
He did.It was actually Mr. Frank L. Stein.Frank N. Stein.
so for me he's green his big old bolts at his neck and In honor of the late great Phil Hartman.
He just always says fire All he says you don't know what I'm talking about go Google Sarah lives Frankenstein one of the greatest comedy characters of all time and That's what, that's my Frankenstein.
Can you, can you give me that line reading one more time?Firebird.And with that, I think it's time to say hello and welcome to Geek History Lesson.That's not much of an introduction.We're just going right to the lesson?We are!
I'm Ashley Victoria Robinson.
I am Jason Firebird, and welcome to Geek Head's lesson, as Ashley said.
This is the podcast where we talk about one thing, one character, one construct, one book in pop culture, because I'm a TV writer from the Midwest, and she is a comic book writer from the Great White North.Is Canada called the Great White North?
Is that an offense?I didn't know if that was Alaska or Canada.I just want to make sure.
I didn't know Alaska was called that at all.
The Great Alaskan White North.That's what we call it.Okay, well, you're from the Great White North, there you go.
And today we are talking about Frankenstein.
We are talking about Frankenstein.Frankenstein across the pop cultures, all of the Frankensteins.Many Frankensteins.Yes.A lot of Mary Shelley's Frankensteins, but several many different Frankensteins.
Yes, and because we're going to bring that up because, yeah, Frankenstein, whether or not he is articulate, whether or not he can talk, changes across The lexicon?
Yeah, there's one correct version, and then there's a bunch of wrong versions.Oh, easy there.
Where do you fall on the boo-berry of this all?
My frangusine tanks- Does boo-berry speak?Are hot, and they are aflame, which means that the creature would be frightened of that.
Yeah, that's interesting, because he's dead skin cold, and he's afraid of fire.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause he can't fight it.He went against fire.
I need an answer to this question.Where do you fall on the Boo-Berry of it all?Is Boo-Berry part of the Frankenstein family?
In my country, we did not have those cereals growing up, so I've never had any and I have no thoughts and no relation to any of them.
I think Boo-Berry is the... Is one of them a witch?Is the cousin of Frankenstein.
I thought it was Frankenberry.Oh, it is Frankenberry.I'm getting mixed up.Is it pink?
Oh, God.Yep.Boo-Berry is... Let's move on.
I put myself out there as a serial expert and I got it completely wrong.It's a good thing this isn't a serial history lesson.Oh man, the serial monsters would be a great episode.So if you all want to request that at, what are we on threads?
At Geek History Lesson.Thank you so much. We're recording this late at night.Everyone, welcome to the kickoff of GHL Spooky Season.
Which might, we did a bunch of great episodes last year, Van Helsing and- Vampires.Vampires.
We did two Van Helsings.We watched the 2004 classic.
Because you all demanded it.So go back and listen to that train wreck of a podcast.And you know, this year we might have, I can't right now, so this is going to be very interesting.This might also be scary.
have a very large spooky season geek history lesson talking about all like we have let's say like we have werewolves in the hopper it's done yeah have i read it no uh we might have another frankenstein because there's more than one frankenstein in uh pop culture and we might have some other ones
Or this might be the only one.Why is that?Because my current work schedule, writing on the television show I'm working on, is crazy.
Yeah, and if you want to hear more about that, you know, go check out the Patreon.
Yeah, the Patreon.We have a special episode about that. I'm saying this to future Jason and Ashley, this might be the kickoff of a grand spooky season, or this might be the only spooky episode you hear all year.
TBD, or you know what?We might be doing spooky season in a not traditionally spooky season month.We'll see.
Might be around American Thanksgiving.
We shall see.Was this requested by anybody?Sure the heck was not.
Why don't we roll right into the 10 cent origin and Jason, would you be so kind as to introduce us to what that means?
That is at where Ashley is going to give you the basic who's it's or what's it's of Frankenstein in case you're ever trapped in a windmill and the villagers are after you with pitchforks and fire and they're like, tell us about just Frankenstein.
Exactly.So Frankenstein or The Modern Prometheus is an 1818 science fiction horror novel.It's the book that invented the science fiction genre.
Brian Aldiss, a scholar, has argued for regarding it as the first true science fiction story in contrast to previous stories with fantastical elements resembling those in later science fiction.
And Aldiss states it is science fiction because the central character, quote, makes a deliberate decision, end quote, end quote, turns the modern experiments in the laboratory and quote, to achieve fantastic results.
So academically, this is considered the first science fiction book.
I considered this to be the first science fiction book.
You and I frequently argue about whether or not that's true.Written by Mary Shelley, Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley at the age of 18.So if you've if you've never looked at the the original manuscript for Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
You can find it online.It's been scanned.There are very few edits.What you read today is like the first and a half draft.So if you ever want to feel bad about your input at your age, this is the book that will make you feel that way.
The first edition was published on January 1st, 1818 anonymously when she was 20 years old.It tells the story of Victor Frankenstein, a young scientist who creates a sapient creature in an unorthodox scientific experiment.
And the name Frankenstein refers to the protagonist scientist rather than the creature he creates.And that was not a common mistake before the 1931 Universal Monster movie when everyone started calling the creature Frankenstein. And I am that jerk.
I will die on that hill.His name is The Creature.Frankenstein has been adapted into books, comics, plays, television, movies and more in the 205, 206 years since its original publication.
Actors who have portrayed The Creature in live action include Boris Karloff, who also very famously played Dracula.
Lon Chaney Jr., Fred Gwynn in The Munsters, Bela Lugosi, who also also played Dracula, Peter Boyle in Young Frankenstein, and Christopher Lee, who also also also played Dracula, Robert De Niro, Benedict Cumberbatch, and more.And that.
And Phil Hartman.Yeah, don't leave him on that list.I'm sorry.And beloved, venerated Phil Hartman.Phil Hartman.And that's your Tencent Origin on Frankenstein.Frankenstein.Or the creature.Or, well, the property is called Frankenstein.
Do you want to call him the creature instead of the monster?I've always heard him called the monster.
So if you read the book, he is referred to, he's referred to, I'm not even wearing my glasses today.He's referred to as the creature.He is not referred to as a monster again until the 1931 universal monster movie.
So in my opinion, and I know we're going to talk about this later on this episode, he's not a monster.
Just the people that chase him are.
just Victor for being a massive butthole.
That's the real lesson of the book, Frankenstein.The monster is humanity.
Yeah, is not the monster.So I will be referring to him as the creature.Just like the real world.It's not science fiction.That's science fact.Yeah, exactly.How science fiction becomes science fact.Go find that old episode in our feed.
What we had we did a panel at maybe an LA comic-con called how to put science fiction based on science fact I thought you were making a joke.No, it's a real episode.
I don't we've done five over 500.Okay.Wow.I thought you were making a joke No, I was I was are we ready to get into this lesson about creature in the history 101 the creature the monster on the on the property Frank.
Yes.I'm mr. Frank in sign Frank and sign Frank l-bomb So we're going to start out talking about the original text before we move into adaptation.So hold on to your butts.
And again, because I'm a literary snob, I'm going to be referring to Victor Frankenstein as Victor and the creature as the creature.Jason.Yes. Have you ever read Frankenstein?
Because I read Frankenstein when I was in grade 10, because in Canadian English literature, that was what we studied that year.And I fell in love with it immediately, and it remains to this day, one of my all-time favorite books.
So have you ever read Frankenstein?
Yes, I've read it in, I read it in high school.And then I think I read it 10 years ago.It holds up.It's a really, it's one of those classical books that I think, despite its word choice, feels very contemporary.
I think it reads very modern, yeah.There are some words and some phrases where you scratch your head, but yes, I think you can definitely read it and you don't have to rearrange your brain too much.
Because, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's all from the perspective of a captain who, am I right?It's a journal, right?
So it starts, as the POV of Captain Walton.So it's so funny.So but Captain Walton, it jumps different point of views throughout.
But Captain Walton, kind of like Shadow and Bone or A Song of Ice and Fire, his chapters bookend it because he's on this Arctic expedition trying to get to the North Pole.
But I meant to say that like a lot of books at that time, that was like a lot of the Sherlock Holmes books do that too.You're reading the journal of somebody that is telling you the story.
Exactly that.So Walton is leading a scientific expedition to the North Pole.And when they get to the Arctic, he and his crew come across a giant monster on a dog sled. you know, exactly what you'd expect to find at the North Pole.
Jason, if you were going to the Great White North and you came across such a being, what would your assumption be?Yeti, Wendigo, Polar Bear, Santa Claus?
I need to clarify.Are we calling the North Pole the Great White North?
Well, it's in the Great White North.
The Arctic.Okay, I've learned that today we're calling Alaska the Great White North, Canada the Great White North.
No one has ever called Alaska the Great White North.
I'm calling it the Great White North.
The true north strong and fierce, that is Canada.
What monster would I expect to see?
Well, if you saw this great creature lumbering out of the mist and it was 1818, what would you think it was?Santa Claus.Santa Claus?
Odin, you know, with his mighty beast, Sleipnir, pulling through the snow.
OK, I'll give that to you.Soon after this encounter, the captain saves the life of an almost dead Victor Frankenstein, a human man who reveals that he was in pursuit of the giant man monster and begins his tale of woe.
So this is where, even though it is the captain's journal, it switches to Victor's POV telling you the story. Victor is a man of privilege born into a rich family from Geneva, Switzerland.And he was always interested in how the world works.
He was a smart kid who studied alchemy and sciences and magic.Now, Jason.
Alchemy was my favorite subject too, yes.
Yes, exactly.Does he not sound like if he'd been a contemporary person that Victor Frankenstein might've been a writer?Someone who's into alchemy and science and magic?Doesn't he just sound like he would've been a writer?
No, he sounds like he's somebody that would buy a social media website and say, hey, I should rename it X, that's cool.Stop.
That's what someone with daddy issues does.That's Victor Frankenstein.An inferiority complex and hair plugs.
That's Frankenstein.Frankenstein.Thank you very much.
At the age of five, Victor's family adopted a wealthy Italian girl named Elizabeth Lavenza, who Victor would eventually marry.Bride of Frankenstein fans, movie, should be gleeful to hear Elizabeth's name mentioned right now.
Right before Victor takes off for university in Germany, his mother dies of scarlet fever.Oh no, so sad.
And in order to avoid dealing with his grief, because this is the 19th century and he's a man, Victor doubles down on science and begins studying chemistry and anatomy.So he doesn't have to feel anything.He'll look at the inside of his body.
This leads him to construct a human from corpses, as one does when deep in their grief.And he winds up with a giant human person who's almost eight feet tall and disproportionately wide with yellow eyes and yellow skin.
If you have yellow eyes and yellow skin, you have liver problems or disease.
I'm just gonna say something to Victor right now, that if your human turns out to be- Betterhelp.com.If your human turns out to be eight foot tall, I think you have too many pieces. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it took one too many legs.
We don't any torso stacked on top of each other We don't they don't need two thighs on top of three knees on top of five shins Wow, but but why not?Well, I guess but why not that is part of the science experience.You know what maybe Victor's right?
When he brings the creature to life, Victor is so repulsed by his giant naked yellow man that he runs away from it.He finds his best friend and he says, come see the creature with me.But when they return, Jason, would you believe it?No one's there.
No one's there.Not a soul.No big man.
Sounds like you're telling me a spooky story and spooky season right now.
Vibes, very vibes.Jason, if your reanimated corpse ran away, what would your reaction be?Oh, darn. That's pretty much what Victor does.So Victor gets so stressed out, he falls ill for four months.
And to basically get un-sick, he's like, I can't do it.But then his daddy writes him a letter and he's like, your brother was murdered.And he's like, I'm not
sick anymore i gotta come home so victor is home for him again geneva thank you geneva switzerland um victor is unable to prove the creature's guilt uh when he goes to investigate the murder of his brother but he knows that the creature killed his brother so what does he do jason he runs away again
How does he know?Do you remember how he knows that the creature did it?Well, he just assumes the creature did it because the creature probably wants revenge on him for bringing him to life.So he runs away again.
He runs all the way to the top of a mountain.He goes on a walkabout through the French Alps.Jason and I would love to do this, if I could just add that.And while enjoying his hiking holiday, the creature finds him.
And he confronts Victor and he tells him his story and then the narrative flips again to share the creature's point of view and explain what he's been up to in the six months that he's been alive or re-alive.
He says, call me Ishmael.I joined a boat and I hunted a whale with a man.Oh my God.
He actually did not murder anybody and he is not awful Jason if you were a reanimated corpse conglomerate of a bunch of individuals What would you spend your time doing?
You're asking me a lot of questions about how I feel about reanimated corpses, and I don't know if I appreciate this side Are you are you leveling accusations during this podcast right now?
Absolutely not.Only have Victor Frankenstein.
I think it's perfectly OK to have six shins in a closet rotting there.I think that's perfectly OK.
But if that were you, what would you spend your time doing?What do you think he's been doing for these six months?
I would go to Monaco and play in a poker tournament.
He's been learning how to read. Wow.And speak.Quick study.So learning how to read.That's what the creature has been spending his time doing.
And listeners, if you can read, if you have taught yourself how to read while running over the Alps, you can actually come and read with us right now over on Patreon.com slash Jalwin, where along with our super friends, we are running a spooky season book club.
We're reading Hounds of the Baskerville, Sherlock Holmes. Well, we're going to finish it.We're going to have a live chat at the end of October.We've been having an amazing time over there.We also have a bunch of extra pods.
We have more Frankenstein talk coming up on Geek History Lesson Extra.If you like the sound of my voice, you're going to love me and Diego doing Talking Titans.
You should say it's going to be we're going to rank the universal monster movies.
This week.So if you want to hear that episode, go over to patreon.com slash Jalen.
but only if you can read.And add free episodes, all kinds of goodies.But I will say, if you're a reanimated corpse, you're welcome to.Yeah, sure.Patreon.com slash Joe.
Especially if you play poker in Monaco.
You're welcome.Yeah, if you play poker in Monaco, you're extra welcome.I will say this. But back to Frankenstein, back to the creature.He can read now.He can read, he can write, he can dance, he can sing.I can talk, I can talk, I can sing.
This was the moment that I fell in love with the creature as a character, was his love for reading.That really hit my little geeky heart.
The hills are alive with the sound of reading.
Yeah, exactly, because they are in the Alps, of course.I mean, it's the French Alps.It's a completely different set of Alps, but yes. He lived remotely as he educated himself and developed a personality.
I'm a homesteader, I like this.
Yeah, exactly.Very modern, very demure, very cutesy.He even helped out a farming family who lived nearby.
Helped them reclaim some rain.
He like did chores for them when they were sleeping.Free range eggs.Yeah, I brought them a goose.
He kept being like, father, I installed solar panels.And Victor is like, you're a monster.
Exactly.However, when he saw his reflection for the first time, he realized how frightening he was.And he started to conduct all of his business at night.And he stayed in hiding.
The father of the family eventually saw him and shot the creature in the shoulder.And this creature swore revenge on all of humanity as a result.Jesus.
He did believe that and harbored this belief that Victor, his father as he saw him, would be his saving grace.And so he tracked Victor down on this hiking holiday to demand that Victor build him a wife so that he could have a family of his own.
And his plan was to live in isolation in South Africa.
I'm assuming that South Africa was chosen by Mary Shelley because it was a popular exotic locale for, because she lives in England, as an English colony, thus it probably seemed more accessible but foreign at the time, but it does strike me as a wild choice reading this that he's like, and then I'm going to go to South Africa and live happily ever after.
I think it's because if you think about it, when you're looking at the north, the south, in the same plane to England, South Africa is almost directly south.
And it's about as far away as you can get from England and still be an English colony.
But also, if you think about it, although I think he would hop on a ship, he could walk there. It would take him a long time.Yeah, I could.Well, I presume the plan was to take a show, but this guy's walking around the Alps and stuff.
Can you imagine his stride?Yeah, he could.He could kick it down there pretty fast.
Yeah.Amazing.Amazing.The creature warns Victor that if he refuses to build a life, he'll kill his entire family and all of their friends.
Mr. Frank Einstein. You're throwing out the same threats.I mean, I don't know how many more times you can threaten to kill me.You know, that's what I'm saying.You threatened to kill me like three times now.If you don't do this, I'm gonna kill you.
If you don't do this, I'm gonna kill you.
If you don't do this, I'm gonna kill you.
Let's just go ahead and do it.He abandoned him, so I think the creature's in the right.Victor agrees.He's like, uh, sure, I'll build jail wife.But he doesn't want to build it in Geneva.He doesn't want to build the wife anywhere near his family.
He wants to go somewhere remote and desolate and vibey and gothic.So where do you think he goes, Jason?Transylvania.No, he goes to Scotland.Scotland?The greatest country in the world.
So he's like, we have to hop on a ship and cross the English Channel to go build you a life.
To go to Scotland, exactly, yeah. What?Okay.So he goes there to build the monster lady.So the creature stalks him there to spy on his work because he's not supposed to be with Frankenstein.
Fun fact, if you go to Edinburgh to this day, there is a very famous bar that is all Frankenstein themed in inspiration from the story.Cool.I went there and had a cranberry juice because I don't drink alcohol.
The lady creature is built on Orkney Island and Victor worries himself sick the entire time to the point where he eventually rips her limb from limb before she can come to life because he's so horrified he doesn't want two creatures to be out in the world.
Then the creature threatens Victor for destroying his only chance at happiness, and Victor collects his tools of his trade before he does what, Jason?Runs away.Skedaddles.Again.This is like the sixth time Victor has just run away.
Yeah, but come on.You've got an eight foot monster with 17 shins coming after you.I'd run too.
Well, do you think, Jason, that it's because Mary Shelley ran away from her problems, or do you think Percy Biss, her husband, ran away from all of his problems?Who do you think inspired all of this running?
I actually think this is good writing.I think if you saw a wholly, again, think about it, this, I have no way to confirm this, but it would be my guess that this could be considered the very first zombie in all of fiction.
I think probably, because the word zombie comes from a specific cultural reference, but I think as we think of pop culture zombies, I think possibly.
Yeah, but think about it.This guy is an unholy creature that came to life.
But this is Victor's third or fourth encounter with him.He also built him.
Yeah, but you also have to think about how also- I'm team blame Victor Frankenstein.No, I think- I think you have to, I think that's what makes this.Cancel Victor Frankenstein.
I think that's what makes this narrative so compelling is because I don't think either side is right.I think Victor is right and wrong.I think the creature is right and wrong.And I also think you have to.That's very sci-fi.
You have to deal with Victor's deep religious background that he would have had at this time.
And this thing would have been like, again, an unholy God like creature monster thing.Yeah.You know, and also like, you know, to get a little bit ahead.Sure.
The Kenneth Branagh version of this story, my favorite film, which is pretty, which is pretty good for Robert De Niro playing the creature.
Weird choice.Fun fact, they made a pinball machine of that.It's weird. It is weird.And when you make certain shots, he goes, I am Frankenstein.It's not my favorite.He hums also in it.Yeah.
You know, it's it's an interesting thing about just like how against God this would this thing would feel like it's literally imagine your worst mistake you could have ever made.Getting up and constantly reminding you that, hey, you made me.
You made me, dummy.You made me.
Yeah, I mean, where people on the internet were confronted with it every day.Think about that, like that is what it is.
I do think you make a really intelligent observation as well about the underlying religious narrative that would have been not only part of like Mary Shelley's world, but the universe that these characters in.
But a big no-no, whether you're religious or not, you're modern or ancient, is murder and the creature's about to commit his first murder.I'll tell you about it right after this. We are back on Geek History Lesson.Happy spooky season.
We're talking about Frankenstein.Victor Frankenstein just killed Mrs. The Creature.
Mrs. Bride of Frankenstein.
Mrs. Bride of Frankenstein.
The Creature is so mad that he kills Victor's best friend back.So he said, you killed my wife.I'll kill your best friend.And Victor overreacts so hard he has a mental breakdown.And because it's the 19th century, he's thrown in prison.
He cries so hard, they said, just put him in jail.
They're like, oh, he's mentally unstable, put him in jail.That's where we put all the mentally unstable people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.He's crying a lot.Sounds like a modern day.Put him in jail, yeah, yeah.His father gets him out, of course, because he's a rich, noble man.
And he goes back to hang out with his dad and his sister slash love interest, Elizabeth, in Geneva.In Geneva, Victor and Elizabeth get married.And then, Jason, who should appear?
Okay, let me think about this.
Let me set the scene for you.
It's their wedding night.
It's real sexy.They have their, you know, 19th century lingerie.It goes down to their toes.Victor's pulling out his guns and his knives and he's leaving them near the windows and he's like, Elizabeth, I'll be right back.
Yeah, and then who should appear he's complete.
Okay.Let me so they're both completely vulnerable.Mm-hmm They're in a state of undress.Uh-huh would be like the perfect time for some Enemy of theirs to attack.
I'm gonna say Santa Claus.
Oh so close so close It's the creature
I didn't see that one coming.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.Victor thinks this might have happened.So to be fair, before they start kissing, he is like, I'm going to go do a tour and see.And he does, of course, find the creature.
And Creature's like, continue, please.You don't have to stop at my account.
Which is funny, because while Victor's been on his walkabout, the Creature got in their bedroom and strangled Elizabeth and killed her.And then finds Victor and is like, Hi, Dad!Killed your wife.You killed my wife.I killed your wife back.
They chase each other around Europe to a bunch of fun locations.
I like to imagine the Benny Hill themes happen through that.
We're in Italy now. They make it all the way to Russia.Wow.When a lot of walking.So he was going to walk to South Africa.He was going to walk to South Africa.And then that's where they start on the journey to the Arctic is from Russia.
Captain Walton, you remember him?He was the narrator of the earliest chapter. He comes back into the mix and he kind of takes the closing narrative at the end of the book where Victor dies, telling his story to the captain.
And he asked him to swear to kill the creature should he come across it.Jason, you're Captain Walton.You're freezing to death slowly in the Arctic.Would you honor this dying man's wish?
I'd build a fire and head south real quick.
Yeah.Yeah.He's like, kill him.And then Victor Frankenstein says, once you've killed him, quote, seek happiness and tranquility and avoid ambition.Don't tell me what to do.I've always thought that was really interesting.
Don't you dare tell me what to do.Because Mary Shelley was a deeply ambitious person.The creature then enters into the closing pages.He admits to his crimes.He's like, yeah, I strangled Elizabeth.What of it?
But he admits to Captain Walton that his deeds have made him miserable. And he promises to take his own life on the Arctic ice.He hops back on his sledge and he leaves forever.And that that those are the events of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
That is the original Frankenstein story.
But that's another reason why it's so brilliant, because, again, at the end, the creature becomes so human because the creature mourns the death of their father.
Yes, and he's wracked by guilt, but he caused it.
With all the pain, it just goes back to that universal, again, all the best stories are universal because, again, we all have moms and dads and brothers and sisters, and even though all this pain that they had caused each other, his passing still brings him pain.
And then also, yeah, he rides off into the sunset.We don't see him die or anything,
I actually hope he doesn't die.
So, you know, it's led to us for the ability to have Frankenstein and lots of other stories after this big event.
I also appreciate that the conclusion is that causing pain to the people who cause you pain is not the answer.Like revenge is not the answer.Yeah.Yeah.For a horror book, it's very moral.
And I think that's why it also lends into the science fiction, because science fiction is very like morals heavy.So we talked about the book. Shall we talk about Frankenstein in larger pop culture?
Yeah, that's the title of the episode, so we should.
Exactly.So I found a list of 145 movies involving Frankenstein or Frankenstein's creature.The first known adaptation came during what? Jason, either guess what era of film or what year?
Silent movies, 1910.The movie Frankenstein was made by Edison Studios.
You can find most of this on YouTube.It's fairly unwatchable.
Put a nickel in here and watch the Frankenstein movie, the Nickelodeon.
It's sort of worth watching as a cultural oddity, but like, it doesn't function as a film.As you may, from 1910, you may have been able to deduce.The Universal Monster movies were birthed in the 1930s. What was the first movie?Frankenstein 1931.
That is what gave us the big box head, the bolt, the green fire.Yeah, it's the movie that ruined all of our perception of that story.
The Bride of Frankenstein followed it up in 1935, which is another classic, even though per the book, the bride never lives in the Kenneth Branagh film version.
They speed up the death of Elizabeth and Elizabeth gets reincarnated as the Bride of Frankenstein Exactly when whatever better roles in my opinion and then brutally murdered of course set on fire We've referenced that movie quite a bit age, which is better by the way better than you would think I think it's the best friend said maybe I need to figure out who directed the movie
Son of Frankenstein follows it up in 1935.Son of Frankenstein?Oh, hold on, hold on.The Ghosts of Frankenstein, 1942.The Ghosts of Frankenstein?Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman, 1943.The House of Frankenstein, 1944.
He also appears in the House of Dracula in 1945.And then Frankenstein's Universal Monster Movie run ends with Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein in 1948, which is also a great freaking movie.
I didn't know that Kenneth Branagh directed that Frankenstein movie. I didn't know that.In 94, it's called, the official title is Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.Ashley, I don't mean to jump ahead, but- How dare?
I don't know where this comes in lexicon, but I would be remiss if we did not talk about Frankenstein meeting two of the greatest monster hunters that have ever lived, Abba and Costello.
I literally just brought it up.
Frankenstein said it.Oh, I'm sorry.
Did you yes, I said and Frankenstein's run with the Universal Monsters ends with Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein 1948 I'm sorry.I didn't believe you hear you and then I said it's a great movie.
It is a great movie and we still are awesome.
Yes If you are not familiar with Abbott Costello do yourself a favor and get familiar and
You are, because if you ever heard the thing, who's on first, they are the guys that created that.
Yes.Laurel and Hardy are funnier, though, and I will die on that bridge.Jason, why do you think the Universal Monster Movies has such sticking power?Why do you think it even overrides the book character?
Because the visuals. You think the visuals is so strong?When we think about Frankenstein, the image of Frankenstein, it is the universal Frankenstein.It is even though the movie's in black and white, right?We think of green bolts in the hair.
We think of that.We think of that Dracula in the suit.You think of the mummy.I guess a mummy is a mummy. The Wolfman.The Wolfman.It's because the designs are iconic.
It's it's it's it's exactly the same reason why we have a hard time getting Superman away from his trunks because Superman wearing trunks is such an iconic image.It's it's we.
Frankenstein will never shed the green skin with the bolts, even though that's not how he was in the book, simply because every once in a while somebody will be like, but that's that's how I see Frankenstein.
Actors who played Frankenstein during the Universal era include Boris Karloff Long, Channing Jr., Bela Lugosi and Glenn Strange.Jason, who do you think is the most iconic actor who's played Frankenstein? I think it's Boris Karloff.
That's who I think of when I think of.
Yeah, because I think of Bela Lugosi as Dracula.
I agree.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.Although I will say the Christopher Lee Dracula holds a special place in my heart.So does Gary Oldman Dracula. Uh, less less so for me personally.
Both Frank Derenbont and Guillermo del Toro have tried to reboot this specific Universal Monster Movie version of Frankenstein film aesthetic and character design and failed to get them off the ground.
There is a Hammer film called Curse of Frankenstein that is Christopher Lee's debut as the creature.And we made I've never seen it. You've never seen any of the Hammer movies.
I've seen I've never seen I've never seen the Hammer Frankenstein movies.I've seen the Hammer Dracula movies.
Oh, OK.He.So we also talked about this in our vampires episode last year when Saruman played Dracula.So I also think it's interesting that during the same era for the same studio, he also played Frankenstein.Oh, wow.
He looks weird.I've never seen a picture.
It is weird.Other Hammer films.
He looks like melting faces and he's got a lot of scars.Interesting.
Other Hammer films with Frankenstein include The Curse of Frankenstein in 1957 with Christopher Lee, a really young Christopher Lee.The Revenge of Frankenstein, 1958 with two actors who played the creature, Peter Cushing and Michael Gwynn.
The Evil Frankenstein, 1964.He was played by Kiwi Kingston.Frankenstein Created Woman, 1967.That's about the Bride of Frankenstein, played by Susan Denberg.Frankenstein Must Be Destroyed in 1969.
It is.It was played by Freddie Jones.The Horror of Frankenstein, 1970, played by David Prowse.This is a black comedy, the last one that they made, and it's a remake of The Curse of Frankenstein.
It's called Frankenstein and the Monster from Hell, 1974, also David Prowse as the creature.
And you remember who David Prowse is.
He's the actual Darth Vader.
He's the body of Darth Vader.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Whereas James Earl Jones was the voice.The voice of Darth Vader.
of contemporary onscreen adaptations of Kenneth Branagh's Mary Shelley's Frankenstein is probably the most successful.In my opinion, I think it's the best one that's ever been made.
It's the most accurate to the book.And it's still not accurate to the book.
No, but it's it's fairly it's fairly broadly accurate to the book.
And they made a pinball machine.
And they may have been about machine.We've had things like Victor Frankenstein.Remember that?God, yeah.Which flopped and failed in a huge way.
Obviously, our beloved Van Helsing from 2004 was a massive hit and featured Jason's favorite version of Frankenstein that we've ever seen.
And if you loved it as much as we do, don't forget that we have a shirt that says I make Stephen Somers Van Helsing to you cowards that you can you can wear for season right now.
If you want to listen to me sigh for almost an hour and a half, go listen to Van Helsing.
It was a very fun, very fun episode with Matt Kelly.There's also a popular subgenre of teenage monster media, which features the creature.
Oh my God.And none of them are called that. Copyright key history lesson.
If you work for Shutter, Jason is available for hire.Have your lawyer call my lawyer.Here are some of the amazing titles that I pulled for you.I was a teenage Frankenstein, 1957.
1958 saw Frankenstein's daughter with a younger girl stepping into the role.I pulled this one just for you, Jason.1966, Jesse James meets Frankenstein's daughter. Follow-up to a man of Frankenstein's daughter Why what?
Who's to guess Jason Jesse James is popular at the time meets Frankenstein's I don't know if he I read nothing about this film I don't know if he fights Frankenstein's daughter.
I don't know if he protects Frankenstein's daughter is in the Old West I guess I maybe she immigrated to America.She wanted a better life.She five all goes west at it herself.
Nineteen eighty seven brought us a version of the creature in the classic Monster Squad and all the way up to the modern Monster High animated show has a character called Frankie Steen.And she's really cute.
If you look up her design, I think she's actually adorable.Herman Munster Got to talk about Mr. Herman Munster.From the show The Munsters.He is not explicitly Frankenstein's creature.He is Herman Munster.
However, his character design definitely borrows heavily from the Boris Karloff films and that Universal Monster era and is probably the most iconic, one of the most iconic television characters along with the Addams Family Butler, Lurch, who borrows from that same inspiration.
Lurch, I think, is an even further sort of step away, but he's definitely inspired by.
Yeah, he's definitely a Frankenstein.
By a Frankenstein.He's probably actually closer to a zombie. Now, Jason, we've got to talk some crossovers.
The creature crossed the pond to appear in our beloved Doctor Who.
In 1965.Well, he didn't really cross the pond.
Well, but, you know, we were talking about America.I mean, he's actually Swiss.He's Swiss.So he didn't cross any point, he just crossed the channel.He's Swiss Scottish.
Okay, but where does Frankenstein show up in Doctor Who?
In the 1965 Doctor Who serial, The Chase, there is a sequence.So is this the first Doctor? Yeah.Yeah.Nineteen sixty five.
It must have been the first set in what appears to be a mysterious old house where various horror film monsters, including Frankenstein's monster menace, the doctor and his companions, and eventually the Daleks.
The house is subsequently revealed to be a haunted house exhibit. in an event entitled the festival of Ghana.So it was a haunted house.It was a monster house.Then they retconned it to be a haunted house in a future episode.
I'm just going to say this, you know, they do for Dr. Who, they do Christmas specials.I would be totally down if they did a Halloween special.
Agree, and I think dr. Who in particular would be great for okay.
I have two more dr. Who serials to tell you about Frankenstein is a multiple so what you're several many you're doing Frankenstein is a doctor who villain yes Or at least a doctor who antagonist I'm gonna look at a picture of this in the 1976 dr. Who serial the brain of Morbius okay, so that would have been Tom Baker great the fourth doctor great title okay interesting
Has a Time Lord criminal brought back to life by a mad scientist using the Time Lord's brain and a body composed of various alien races who had crashed onto the planet where Morbius's brain had been stored since his defeat.
So it's not necessarily Frankenstein's creature, but this is a version of making a Frankenstein's monster, if you will. And then the final appearance of the creature.
Oh my gosh look Jason showing me a picture of the first doctor next to a Frankenstein large Frank the first Very funny his bolts are like pointed forward.
Yeah, not my favorite Frankenstein costume look like I know I think he's also with Dracula Dracula's beside the other side
He's menaced by various monsters in the haunted house.The third and final to date appearance in the regeneration sequence of the seventh Dr. Sylvester McCoy into Paul McGann, one of my most beloved versions of the doctor.
In the 1996 TV movie Doctor Who, the night attendant in the morgue is watching the 1931 Frankenstein in the next room over.And the scene of the monster being brought to life is intercut with the doctor's resurrection.
And they intentionally filmed it that way to make it Frankenstein.
Yeah, why do you like, OK, you had a really strong reaction.Why do you say that doesn't count?
It doesn't count as an appearance of Frankenstein and Doctor Who, in my opinion.But it's a nice that it's on a TV monitor.But no, I don't because it's not.It's a regeneration, even though they intentionally like filmed it like Victor Frankenstein's.
Coming back to life.It doesn't count.
Okay, okay I'm gonna also tell you about some Frankenstein and Frankenstein's monsters Frankenstein's creatures appearances not on the screen, but in other forms of pop culture Maybe who could possibly say definitely not pinball machines right after this We are back on geek history lesson talking about Frankenstein and Victor Frank science creature in pop culture Jason mm-hmm
I wanna state that for the record.Thank you so much.I'm 100% not a Frankenstein.
As we're wrapping up our discussion on television appearances, how many television credits do you think Frankenstein has according to IMDb?
According to IMDB, this number could be ridiculous.You can round up to the nearest hundred.See, even that, I think I'm going to be nowhere even close.
It's either a very low number or it's an insane number that I can't even possibly think of.
I'm going to say 875.Too high.See?
He has just under 500 television credits, 497, which I think is very high.So I want to take us out of the realm of television and into the realm of the theater, where the good actors are.
And I want to shout out a lot of mediums there.
Jesus.Good.All good actors do theater.I want to have a very specific piece of theater from 2011 that is very near and dear to my heart.Frankenstein is a play adapted by Nick Deere from the original novel.
It premiered at the Royal National Theater in 2011 and originally starred Benedict Cumberbatch and Johnny Lee Miller, two Sherlock's alternating the roles of Victor Frankenstein and the creature each night.
A recording of the performance was broadcast live in cinemas worldwide in March 2011.You can actually find this recording on YouTube, but also on Amazon Prime.You can find both versions.
In my opinion, Cumberbatch is the better creature and Johnny Lee Miller is the better
And to explain, they change roles every night.
It does not follow the book super strictly.It opens with the birth of the creature and it's fascinating.If you ever want to see how you could take a monster story like this and bring it to the stage and it could be Engaging exciting and scary.
I think this is a masterful production.And if you're not aware of it, I'm like begging you to check it out Frankenstein and the creature have also appeared in both DC and Marvel comics And we are hoping to talk more about that at a later date.
Will it be next year who could possibly say we can give it away we have a a lesson that is about Frankenstein in DC Comics.Because he is a character that exists in the DC Universe.
And has done some fairly prominent stuff.
my schedule allows, that will be another episode of the spooky season.If my schedule does not allow, then maybe I'll get it next year.Sorry.Or maybe we'll do it in November.Or maybe we'll get it in November.
Just like the creature, we're gonna wander through the Alps.
Exactly that.So I just wanna let you know that that's why I'm not diving too deeply into the comic side of things, because we're hoping to do that.We're hoping to do that.And I do wanna wrap up this episode, Jason.
Like a dead body on the slab.
By asking you a very important question.
Do you know at what apex in pop culture Frankenstein meets Star Wars?
What?What are you talking about?
So according to an article by Slash Film, Um, George Lucas was inspired by the birth sequence of the creature and the bride when he was designing Darth Sidious's lightning effects.
Well, also, um, this is a very specific reference.If you watch the birth of Darth Vader in Star Wars, Episode three, the Revenge of the Sith,
The way that Darth Vader walks off the slab and then screams no is 100% inspired by Frankenstein's birth sequence in the original Universal Monsters Frankenstein.
So that's okay.In a kind of loose sense.I literally thought you were just about to tell me that Star Wars had introduced Frankenstein. I didn't intentionally phrase it that way.
There was a story where the Jedi fight Frankenstein and I was immediately going to be like, cancel all of Star Wars.It's done.
I'll say this.There is a persistent rumor that DC is going to buy Universal or Disney is going to buy Universal.So I was like, DC's going to buy Universal?DC's going to buy Universal.It's going to be great.So there's still time.
Again, I'm just gonna say this, and I think Star Wars should go to sleep for quite a while anyways.If Frankenstein shows up in Star Wars, put it to bed, it's done.It's done.Movies are done.
Well, with that, that's your episode on Frankenstein.There you go.Jason, anything to add?Anything you want to bring up before we head on into our honor roll?
I just want to remind everybody that there is a pinball machine for the Kenneth Branagh Frankenstein movie, which is the oddest choice of all time.You can find it on YouTube.And again, there's a certain shot on it.
Again, if you make the shot, he goes,
If you ever go to the pinball Hall of Fame in Las Vegas Nevada and you play the version of it that they have there Please know that Jason and I played that same machine.
Yeah, you can fill our fingers.
There you go And then guess all the other ones that maybe take some our DNA and maybe make your own Frankenstein And pet the cats while you're there too.There's two cats live in there.
Yeah, there you go This is not an advertisement for the Las Vegas Hall of Fame if they want to sponsor us though I'd be so thrilled.I don't think they sponsor anybody
I don't think so either.All right, let's do the honor roll, Jason.Would you be so kind as to tell us what that is?
Yes, that's if you go over to Apple Podcasts and you leave us a five-star review, we will read your review live on the air.
And if you're an international listener, we can't see your international Apple Podcasts, so please email us at geekhistorylesson at gmail.com.So who gave us five stars?What did they say this week?
So I want to tell you most importantly that this review comes from a nice person named Jason all the way in my native Canada in the great white north.
Oh, okay.Yes.I learned that it's what it's called.
Yes.Uh, their username is inconspicuous ink and they say great geek listening, a great show digging into the history of different comics, characters, and properties.I found it enjoyable for exploring backstories I'm less familiar with.
A total recommend.After hearing the Emma Frost episode, shout out to you, Diego, for that, I'm hopeful for more villains to be spotlighted.I'd love to hear episodes on Sabretooth, Mystique, Black Manta, and Deadshot.
My friend, got an episode on Deadshot already.
Frankenstein's a villain.
No, he's not.Oh, Frankenstein is the villain.Yes.The creature, not a villain.Maybe an annual villains month.Since you read each five star review online, give me your best Excelsior.Jason, will you give an Excelsior?Excelsior.
In the accent everyone's expecting.
You know, I'm as good.What's this person's name?Jason.Yeah. Stan Lee.I invented Frankenstein.
Sure.In the Marvel Universe.
He's mine.Mary Shelley's going to crawl out of her grave.
I'll expect that check in the mail, Shelley.You didn't copyright her fast enough.
Okay, can you tell Canadian Jason what he gets in the teacher's lounge?
I didn't know we were done with his review.He doesn't get anything.He just gets to enjoy coming in the teacher's lounge.And if you want to join him, come over and write five stars on Apple Podcasts.
And you know, you get our ever loving support and enthusiasm.And if you want to suggest a future lesson like Frankenstein, Ashley, where can they find us on social media?
You can find us all over social media at Geek History Lesson.Come hang out with us on threads.It's nice there.But for now. Well, at the time of this recording, it's nice there.
And if you want to enjoy some Patreon ad-free episodes of this podcast or listen to Ashley's new bonus podcast over there, Talking Titans, where they're reviewing all the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle titans.Yeah, I did that intentionally.Did you?
The animated series.You can check that out, patreon.com slash Jonwen.Ashley, where can they find you on threads?
You can find me at Ashley V. Robinson.
And you can find me on threads at Jonwen.And now it's time for... What have we learned today?
Wow.I was like, I don't know what's happening.What have we learned today?Well, we've learned that the creature isn't green.We've learned that an 18 year old woman invented science fiction.
And we've learned that when in doubt, just run away from your problems and go to the Alps or maybe Scotland.
And I think we've also learned one other very important lesson that we must never forget.
What could it possibly be?
And if you don't know that joke, you have homework.
And they're all delightful.
Thank you so much for listening to Geek History Lesson.I'm Jason Inman.
I'm Ashley Victoria Robinson.
And Professor Ashley, will you please close out the podcast?
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