Sherlock Holmes, Hercules, Frankenstein.They're all related, right?Sure, they're all cousins.Well, they're actually all public domain characters, but they are also fictional characters that all exist in the DC comic book universe.
So Ashley, mythologies, books, prose, they're already complicated enough on their own. Do you think these public domain characters, these mythological characters should also exist in a fictional shared universe such as the DC Comics universe?No.
Oh, let's get into that stuff.I don't think so.Why?
It's kind of why I take umbrage with some of the Charlton characters and some of the Fawcett comics characters.
So Fawcett characters like Shazam and Charlton characters like Rorschach.The original Sandman.The question, not the Rorschach and Blue Beetle.
Blue Beetle being the exception.
Peacemaker, Peacemaker's a Charlton character.
I have no use for Peacemaker, he can GTFO as far as I'm concerned. The characters were not originally designed to play in the rules of the DC Comics universe, the Marvel Comics universe.
It's a little bit different when you start going to things like Image and Boom because it's on a shared universe.They're indie books.But the DC universe has fairly hard and fast rules.And I think putting Characters that come from other heart.
I just it's not my it's not my bag It's not I think it's I think it's trying to take a square a square peg and put it in a round hole or the other way around Whichever one it's not supposed to be if may if I may expand on your theory I think maybe the issue that you're getting around is that the idea that you know Sherlock Holmes is a literary detective Hercules is a myth
Frankenstein is a horror, whereas the DC Universe is a superhero universe.And trying to put those into the rules of a superhero universe overcomplicates it all.
I think so.And I just I don't want I don't like Sherlock Holmes and magic, so I certainly don't like Sherlock Holmes.And I mean, I haven't the Sherlock Holmes and Batman.
So there's literally a Sherlock Holmes Batman. I will say is a fun idea for a one off, which is what that book is.It's a fun idea for a one off because they're both detectives.
Here's something that I want to say that'll blow your mind.Sure.Mind of most of our listeners right now because they don't even consider it.You don't realize most people out here that Wonder Woman, Batman, Superman.Oh, yeah.
Also not created to be a part of a shared universe.There was no such thing as a shared universe when those characters were created.
But I also take on bridge to let's go to the other side of the fence.I have a hard time suspending my disbelief that.
In the Avengers, you have the Norse gods, and the Greek gods, but also... And the symbiotes have gods, apparently, for some stupid reason.Well, and then there's Eternals, and whatever.
But then also, there are still people who believe in Christianity.Like, why would you be a Christian if you lived in a world where Thor could come and have a barbecue?You know what?It's why I don't like Heaven and Hell in comic books.
It's too many mixing mythology.Pick a lane and stick to it.
Speaking of picking the lane and sticking to it.Welcome to geek history lesson.
I'm Jason Inman I'm Ashley Victoria Robinson.
Welcome to your spooky mind University Because I am a comic book writer from Canada I am joined by a screenwriter from Kansas and we are gonna take one character Contract or monster from popular culture and teach you everything you need to know about it in about an hour And this episode is a fun companion piece to last week's episode.
Yes, if this follows in order when because I'm going to put it there.We're talking about the Frankenstein that exists in DC Comics.So we did Frankenstein in pop culture.
Now we're doing Frankenstein specifically in DC Comics because DC Comics has had several versions of the character of Frankenstein that has been a member of their lore.Yes.So we're going to dig into that.
We have some research and writing help from our GHL research assistant, Diego Anthony Nunez.And with much further ado, without further ado, Much further ado, like Frankenstein's monster, it can't speak.Let's get into the Tencent Origin.
Ashley, would you mind explaining what that is to us?
Not dredging up the can Frankenstein's creature speak or not from last week's episode.
This one can definitely speak.
Yeah, this one can.And he wants me to tell you that Tencent Origin is the first part of the podcast where Jason is going to give you all the basics.
Who's it's and what's its galore in case you go to, you know, like a cool horror themed cocktail party and someone's like, well, wait, Frankenstein is in is in these comics.What?
So The tense in origin of this one is going to be different because there have been multiple Frankenstein's.So I'm just going to tell you a little bit about the first one.
And then the rest of them, you'll figure it out as we go along.
The first time that Frankenstein appeared in DC Comics was in May of 1948 in a story by Edmund Hamilton and Bob Kane. So we'll get to that.
Ooh, Bob Kane, Batman creator.
But of course, you know, the modern version of Frankenstein, there's a guy that kind of takes over.His team affiliations are the Creature Commandos, the Seven Soldiers, Shade, Just League Dark, and the Just League.
He has superhuman strength, and he's immortal.Ooh.That's about it.So let's get into the history 101.Now, before we get into the comic book history of Frankie in the DC Universe, we're going to briefly reiterate the novel from last week, just in case.
Just get the basics here. Victor Frankenstein reanimates the dead through an unorthodox scientific experiment.
He collects a bunch of fresh body parts, he stitches them together, apparently makes the guy eight foot tall, and he reanimates his creature through an electrical current, whether that's lightning or, you know, he just turns up the power.
So through a series of carnage and mayhem and various adventures in Switzerland, Dr. Frankenstein winds up dead near the North Pole, and the creature exiles himself by floating alone on an ice raft. In most of the D.C.
versions, that is the origin of Frankenstein.So why would you mess with one of the greatest stories ever told?There is one of them that will change that.But that is basically the novel in all of these versions.
This is Frankenstein having adventures in the D.C.universe after the novel.
Yeah.It's like I killed my dad.I got business to do.
And you want more expansion of that.Go listen to last week's episode we talked about.So exactly.
The modern version of frankenstein the main version the one that has the most stories is a version that appeared in 2005 and we will talk about them, but we want to talk about Some of the previous versions before we get to the 2005 version, but first ashley.
I hate to do this.Oh boy We have to do a first in ghl history
We have to- This is like 517 episodes deep to be doing a first.
This is a first in G2 history.We have to give out a retraction.
Because I hate to tell you, we have to announce a retraction from last week's episode of Geek History Lesson.Because Ashley, as I learned in the research of this lesson, Frankenstein was not created solely by Mary Shelley.
Frankenstein was also inspired by Batman and Robin. Oh Jesus.It's true.
I was like... I was gonna scream.
This is true.In Detective Comics number 135.Mary Shelley is crawling out of her grave right now, and she is on her way across the Atlantic to beat you up.Well, you know, we didn't know that she got inspiration from Batman and Robin, so touche, lady.
Go back to your grave and give Batman and Robin some credit.So in Detective Comics number 135 in 1948, there is this guy that wants to learn the truth about Frankenstein. Sure, because in the DC universe, Frankenstein is a real thing that happened.
I love the idea of like the Swiss newspaper just being like, alert, alert.
Yep.In the canon of the DC universe, Frankenstein was a real event.
And this, here, my friends, is why I do not like the melding of classic literature and mythology with comic books.
So this guy that is very curious about Frankenstein, he travels through time to meet Beren von Frankenstein, not Victor, Beren.So this Beren guy.He's a gentry, so sure.
It was learned that this Beren guy, he would use people while they were unconscious.So they would be unconscious, but they would be knocked out and not quite dead, low heart rate, all these kinds of things.
And this guy, this Baron guy would use adrenaline.And these people, while they were injected by adrenaline, would be under the Baron's control and they would do his bidding.
I think they would just wake up.
Comics.Sure.It's fine.It's no sillier than than the actual Frankenstein.
This is a Bob Kane comic book short, okay, from 1948.So These people were considered to be the Frankenstein monsters.OK, that's a fairly elegant retcon.Sure.Now, Batman and Robin, they use a bat time machine to get back to the eighteen hundreds.
Great.And they meet up with Baron Von Frankenstein.And once they get there, Batman gets knocked out. The Baron gets a hold of him and Batman becomes under his thrall.Batman becomes a Frankenstein monster.Now Robin gets away because he's Robin.
But he saves- Good for Robin.He saves the day and he snaps Batman right out of the mind control.And realizing that this isn't mind control. And his mind control isn't permanent because they woke up Batman.
Batman's like, we could wake them all up, chum.So they wake up all of the Frankenstein monsters from the trench and they wake everybody up.Batman and Robin win the day.They stop Baron Frankenstein from doing this ever again.
And afterwards they start, they're like, you know, hey, this 1800s is 19th century.Not so bad.Let's just hang out here in our weird whitey tighty costumes.
Yeah, we love the Victorian era.
It's going great for us.So they start talking to this girl on the street.And for some reason, they tell this girl the entire adventure about, oh, the Frankenstein monster and stuff like that.And this girl turns out to be Mary Shelley.
And she used these events to write her novel.
Okay, that's rude and disrespectful.
So Ashley, how do you feel now that you know the truth that Batman and Robin wrote Frankenstein?
The truth that Bob Kane was such a misogynist that he could not imagine that an 18 year old girl could have written Frankenstein?
No.Disappointed.That Batman and Robin wrote Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
I was in on this story where Robin was saving the day and then you had to ruin it in the epilogue, Mr. Kane.How very dare.
It's an interesting enough story, it's fine.For like a golden age story, it's probably cute.But I'm mad.
You know what you shouldn't be mad about though, Ashley?
Well, sure.You should never be mad about that.But I was going to say our Patreon over at patreon.com.
I do love our Patreon.It's filled with the reanimated corpses of our listeners.
It is filled with the reanimated corpses of our listeners.That's right.
If you want to go over there and listen to some ad free episodes or check out our newest podcast, Talking Titans, hosted by the Titanic Ashley and the Titanic Diego, where they're going to review every single episode of the 2006.
2003 Titans animated series, you can go check that out.And also join our exclusive discord.We're having a book club on the hounds of the Baskerville if you're in the spooky season.Oh, great.Come on over to patreon.com slash.
Don't ever be mad about that.
Come join the thrall.Become one of our Frankenstein.
Come join us.If you die, we'll revive you so you can live with us forever.
That's right, forever.In the Discord.All right, so let's move on into the Bronze Age of comics, because there's another Frankenstein that appears in the Bronze Age of comics.Ashley, would you like to do a quick reiteration of what the Bronze Age is?
Bronze Age begins in about 1980. 1970. Oh, I'm just kidding, 1970.I thought it started with New Teen Titans.Just kidding.It directly follows the Silver Age and it takes all the silliness of the Silver Age and says, nuts to that.
We want to tell slightly more serious, slightly more true, slightly darker stories.And you get a lot of iconic comic books that we've never gotten over and are still aping to this very day.
So, in the Bronze Age, Frankie starts showing up in comics in a more traditional interpretation in a bunch of backup stories of the Phantom Stranger written by the late, great Len Wein, creator of Wolverine.
And some of these adventures were called the Spawn of Frankenstein.So he was called the Spawn of Frankenstein.
Are you daring to assert that the green version of Frankenstein is the classic version of Frankenstein?
I don't know what you mean by that.
Oh, well, you said the classic version.I'm pretty sure he's like painted green.And that is not the classic version.That's the universal buzz.
Well, it's the classic version for this.It's the classic version that we all think about.
So the Phantom Stranger, for all those don't know, he nobody really knows who he is.He wears a felt hat.He wears a cool necklace, but they don't know his origin, his background, his name.He's a mystical being with deep knowledge of the occult.
Usually shows up in Superman adventures and is like, Sir, man, there's a ghost and Superman's like, OK, I'll go.I'll go punch it.
Or to be like, John Constantine, you gotta train up and fly right.
In some versions, it's kind of revealed that he's Judas from the Bible, the betrayer of Jesus Christ, if you know that, if you've read that book.
I didn't know that, that's kind of interesting.But again, mixing mythology.
This is his eternal penance. Yeah, there's a lot of mixing in mythology.So in this version, Victor Adams, not Baron von Frankenstein, comes across the frozen body of the Frankenstein monster and determines to revive him.
He uses a laser device to revive the creature and things start to go sideways.Explosions happen.Victor doesn't survive, but the experiment is a success.The creature is alive.However,
From this incident, and Frankie being the only creature that lives through this incident, of course people come across this laser site where there have been explosions and they immediately believe that this monster, the spawn of Frankenstein, is responsible for all the chaos and so they get their pitchforks and they get their burning torches and they decide to chase him.
I like how in the Marvel universe, if you cut somebody out of the ice, they turn out to be Captain America.And in the DC universe, if you cut someone out of the ice, they're a horrible, disfigured monster.
So Frankie takes the remains of Victor, hoping to resurrect him.And Rachel, the wife of Victor, is looking to get revenge on Frankie.But wouldn't you know it, she happens to get kidnapped by a satanic cult. Why?I mean, as happens.It's the 1970s.
That's why.Satanic panic is at its height.We love post-Omen.And of course, the satanic cult, they want to use her as a sacrifice for immortality.Right?Coincidentally, Frankie finds himself at the right place at the right time and he saves her.
I love that comment.And he burns the cultists alive. Honestly, good for him.
Good for him.But then it turns out that the cultists were able to actually rattle off a quick spell before the end and they summon two demons that go around possessing people.And that is when the Phantom Stranger arrives.
These demons hop around possessing different people as Frankie tries to get them to stop.And that's when the Phantom Stranger intervenes to exorcise the demons and help save the day.
And because of this, Frankie basically forgets about resurrecting Victor.So he dead.
He's like, I don't need my daddy.I'm okay now.
And he decides to go on a crusade to fight these cultists.And basically, someone dies because of the cultists.Frankie gets blamed for it.Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.
This spawn of Frankenstein even fights Batman and Superman at one point.Great.Were they in the cult?But eventually, probably.Batman probably is.Batman probably is.
But eventually, Frankie gets tired of it and he isolates himself in the woods, never to be seen again.
Sad face.Because the series was ending.
Now we're gonna look into the Creature Commandos because there is a show coming up called the Creature Commandos.So it's definitely worth getting familiar with them and their sort of Frankenstein monster on the team.
He's not really called a Frankenstein, but he's basically a Frankenstein.So what are the Creature Commandos?It's basically a military team of monsters that would go on unconventional missions set during World War II.
They're comprised of a human leader, a werewolf, a vampire, a Gorgon, and of course, a Frankenstein monster. This version of Frankie was actually a man named Elliot Taylor, who became this creature after stepping onto a landmine in the battlefield.
Now, Dr. Mazursky and his team of surgeons rebuilt Elliot because they have the technology, but they did not rebuild him as the bionic man.They brought him back as a Frankenstein monster, and he became known as Patchwork.
Oh, that's okay.That's more creative than I would've thought, but I gotta say, I think he would've rather been a $6 million man.
Yeah, I agree.Who wouldn't wanna be Lee Majors?Gotta stop fantasizing about Lee Majors.Go Google that, kids.You'll figure it out in a second.As Patchwork, he becomes a near indestructible ogre with superhuman strength, invulnerability, and stamina.
although his vocal cords were destroyed during the procedure.Now, Elliot was rebuilt as a creature, he had nowhere to go, and Dr. Mazursky, the man who rebuilt him, recruits Elliot to be part of the Creature Commandos.
Now, these commandos of creatures would be sent out into the field basically to scare Nazis.I'm not joking, they were literally just sent out into the field to scare Nazis.A noble pursuit.
Specifically in their tale of Weird War Tales number 93, and it's like rationalized as psychological warfare.Sure. because these Nazis are like, oh, they're a goddamn werewolf. Your German is impeccable.I think it's pretty good.
On the Creature's first mission out, they invade a castle in France, occupied by the Nazis that are also conducting weird experiments.
And in the castle, they discover the Nazis have created robotic replicants of famous political leaders like Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Stalin, Winston Churchill, hoping to give the Allies the old switcheroo.
Okay, sure.Sounds like a Nazi plan.Why not?The Nazis were actually trying to do mysticism.This is way less interesting than some of the things they were trying to do.
We are going to take over.I just love the idea of like, we gotta clone Roosevelt. Great.
But not Eleanor.Rude, frankly.Not rude.No.First female president.Only Winston Stalin.FDR.Not the queen.Not yet.Not not Lizzie.Not Harry Truman.No.Not Lizzie wasn't doing nothing, though.
I mean, Churchill, if you're going to bet she's the one he's going to bet on.
Not any of these people.Fortunately, thank God the commandos destroy this lab.They blow up the castle and the replicants.And the mission is a total success.
Honestly, if the movie is anything like that, or the show rather, I'm kind of into it.
So I want to ask you, Ashley, you know, there's a lot of crossover here between the Creature Commandos and the Suicide Squad.Yes.They are the same in most respects, and comic books does tend to see a lot of ideas rinse and repeat.
Trope, trope, tropes.You know, I know we only just talked about the Creature Commandos a little bit here, but in your opinion, which do you think is the cooler concept, the Creature Commandos or the Suicide Squad?
That's tough because- Because The Kooch Crane Man is our monster squad, basically.
I'm a little suicide squatted out from just their current- From just two movies. Well, they're like they're in Harley Quinn.
There was a video game and yeah, like there's they've got a bunch of comics now I think at its core I think Suicide Squad is a more interesting idea Mm-hmm, and I think Suicide Squad has a blow-for-blow had more more better stories than creature Mando's But you know, I can see particularly for the Brontes like I can see why this idea Would have been interesting.
Mm-hmm Do I think there's a reason why the guy who made the Guardians of the Galaxy and the Suicide Squad is going to make the Creature Commandos?Like, yeah, I see the line.I definitely do.But I think Suicide Squad is probably better.
Interesting.I think Creature Commandos is such a more interesting idea.
I don't know, again, it's a lot of mixing them with like, oh, so in this universe werewolves are real.
Oh, so in this universe vampires are real.And Gorgons and Frankenstein and mummies.
But I get like, because it's a newer idea to me, I'm a bit more interested in it.
No, we've had this conversation several times where it's like, it's one of the things like I dislike every time the X-Men meet Dracula.
Or go to space.And they've crossed paths with Dracula multiple times.In fact, several X-Men characters have become vampires.
And it really knocks me out to be like, yeah, I get it.We live in a universe where, like, there are all these people with multiple mutant powers.But, like, it just, like, pushes the edge of credibility when it's like, oh, you're also a vampire.
Yeah, it to me it becomes that thing of I'm gonna I'm gonna not get the Jurassic Park quote, right?But basically just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something and I think I don't know.
I intellectually don't like the idea, but I'm not saying you can't tell a compelling story with it.
And we should also go back to the original idea too, as well, where we've talked about this a lot of times, that Shazam was not a DC Comics character.Captain Marvel was not.
Shazam should not be a DC Comics character.
And he's actually complicated the DC universe, because there basically makes two Supermen out there.And then also, Shazam is just such a more interesting concept when they are in their own bubble.
When they are the only heroes of the universe.
I like in the idea of the multiversity that like that faucet is its own planet.Like there are some, some else worlds should just be else worlds.
You know?Well, it's also the interesting thing because, you know, Captain Marvel was a direct copy of Superman.
And then for a time, outsold Superman.I'm also like... And DC only bought Shazam because they didn't want them to outsell them anymore.
Yeah.I just think Captain Marvel's not as interesting.
Yeah.I think he is, again, when he's in his own universe.Sure.But when you put him next to Superman, Superman's way more interesting.
Yeah.And again, I'm not saying I've never read a great Shazam story or anything like that, but blow for blow.
Yeah.Blow for blow. it's time to talk about the seven soldiers of victory.
This is the part I was excited for.
Well, don't get too excited.I'm so excited.Because we have to take a break.So you stick around maybe for seven seconds.
Well, the ads will probably be longer than that, but stick around and we'll be back to talk about the seven soldiers of victory and Frankenstein. Geek History Lesson, we're back.
We're talking about Frankenstein in DC Comics, and it's now time to talk about, some might call him the modern Prometheus, I call him the modern Frankenstein of the DC Universe, a member.
of the Seven Soldiers of Victory, definitely the Frankenstein in the DC Universe that has the most issues, even got his own solo series.So we're gonna talk about a little bit of a production history and a background.
Back in 2005, Grant Morrison, the Scottish writer, and artists like Doug Monke, J.H.Williams III, Brian Sook, Yannick Paquette, and a whole bunch of others took up the task of bringing the Seven Soldiers of Victory into the modern era of DC Comics.
If you've never heard of this team before, the original Seven Soldiers was a team-up book of different DC Comics heroes.It was actually the second superhero team ever in comic books.What?It actually debuted after the Just Society of America.
After JSA, yeah.Back in the golden age of comics, back in the 30s and 40s.This team was made up of different characters that weren't quite as popular, okay?
The original lineup included characters like the Vigilante, the Crimson Avenger, the Shiny Knight, the Star Spangled Kid, Stripesy, Green Arrow, and Speedy.Now a lot of those might sound very familiar to you.
But this team was reinvented in a sort of post-Crisis on Infinite Earths world.Ashley, what's Crisis on Earth?In case anybody doesn't know.
In the hallowed year of our Lord, 1985, DC was like, there are so many universes.There's Earth A, there's Earth B, there's the faucet Earth.What is happening?
So they invented the anti-monitor and they made him really angry and he ate all the universes and he farted out one universe.The end.
And in this world, Grant Morrison wrote a series called JLA by the Just League of America.Yes, it's amazing.And later, he said, I started off in 2002 with the idea to do a JLA spinoff called JL8.The number
Oh, sure, which featured a bunch of sealess characters getting together as a DC analog of the Avengers of the Ultimates.I worked on the material for the next two years and eventually turned it into the seven soldiers concept as it finally emerged.
He's called it his love letter to the new gods, Jack Kirby and the monsters of Len Wein from the 1970s.So Let me tell you about Grant Morrison's Seven Soldiers of Victory, which Frankenstein's a big part of.It features modular storytelling.
What is that?I'm glad you asked.
Seven Soldiers begins with Seven Soldiers number zero and runs through seven different four-issue miniseries that all conclude with a second issue called Seven Soldiers Number One.
Each miniseries has our seven soldiers playing in their own sandbox in yet parallel, yet inevitably converging towards their shared crisis.
Each of the parallel storylines are modular in nature in that they can be read by themselves, but the true reward from this comes from the convergence of the narratives and how they all fit together in a puzzle.
The reader itself plays an active role in stringing these threads together, because the seven soldiers from Grant Morrison are a team that never meets each other.
And even in the culmination, none of them are fully aware of each of the other roles and how each of them have all affected each other's storylines. in this sort of obscure crisis that Grant Morrison cured it.
Now I use the word obscured because in this version, the set of characters that take on this crisis are more interesting.They're both isolated, and again, they proverbially never cross paths.
You describing the format of this sounds like the most Grant Morrison-y Grant Morrison thing I've heard in a while.
Now, the series features a new lineup of the Seven Soldiers that are working together to stop an invasion from the Sheeta, which is an alien race from the future.
The Sheeta are foretold that they will be defeated by a team of seven soldiers, and they begin to target teams of the Seven, including the Justice League of America.
Now, because the Seven Soldiers have never met each other, they actually stand a chance of working towards defeating the Sheetah because the Sheetah don't see them as a real team.
This lineup includes, and each of these characters got their own mini-series, the Shiny Knight, the Manhattan Guardian, Zatanna, Clarion the Witch Boy, a new Mr. Miracle, a new character called Bulleteer, and of course, Frankenstein.Interesting.
And if anyone is a little less familiar with DC, seven is a classic number for a DC Comics super team.So making that a prophecy is actually really smart, because there's about four or five different teams that could fulfill that.
Now, before we get to talking about specifically Frankenstein, Ashley, I want to talk to you about the legacy of the seven soldiers of victory.And I want to talk about like, what are your thoughts on
rebranding team names and Changing them into completely different concepts all of the Thunderbolts Allah even x-factor Allah even the JSA.How do you feel about this?
I don't I don't mind it even the suicide squad.I really don't mind it because I think I I think I've seen enough examples of it done really well.I think the, I think the post.
X-Force is even one of them too.
I think that's the second time you brought up X-Force.
No, I said X-Factor the first time.
Oh, you did, you're right.
The reason why, because the first X-Factor is a government team and then there's.The first X-Factor is the British TV show.And then there's the X-Factor that's the, no, the second X-Factor is like the detective agency.Yeah, yeah.
And then X-Force, you have the Rob Liefeld cable team.Yeah.And then it becomes the reality show that DOOP is a part of.
That's right, that's right.So anyway, with Seven Soldiers of Victory in particular, I think the best version of Seven Soldiers of Victory is the post New 52 series.
Oh, I don't know what series you're referring to.
Oh, I thought that was the series.
That is not the series.We are ahead of the New 52, if that's what you're thinking about.
Yeah, yeah, but isn't there one after the new 52?
Anyway, I don't, I think it's fine if it's a good idea, which is a dumb answer because that's true of absolutely everything.
I think because comics are so long, like the JSA's evolution makes a lot of sense to me and making it the golden age heroes, I think was really smart because it's a place for them to go and it's a way to tell a story about them.
Has this been done in a really dumb way a bunch of times too?Of course it has, there's a lot of comic books.
It's a lot of comedy.I mean, there's been dumb X-Men teams that have completely rebranded themselves.But Thunderbolts, I think, is a great example of they found a way to take a name and make it interesting.So it's the same thing.
So ultimately, I don't mind it.It's not something that when I hear of, I go like, ugh, like a lot of other things in comic books.
I think there needs to be a lot of time in between the two.
I agree.But that's why I think with something like Seven Soldiers, I think it was probably a smart move.
Because the last Seven Soldiers team, yeah, was like from 40 years ago.
Yeah, exactly.Like there needs to be more than 10 years if you're going to reintroduce a completely new identity and point of view.
If you're a nerd, you would kind of be like, oh, that sounds familiar.But yeah, like what has happened to the Thunderbolts I think is a little ridiculous now because they're allowing like 17 different Thunderbolts teams now.
X factor is kind of the same thing.Like, yeah, I think if you're going to do that, I think, you know, I'm like, I think, I think you need to wait 10 years.
Like, it needs to be like, you can't rename a team to a completely different concept in less than 10 years.
Or you should just make up a brand new name.
Yeah.Well, yeah, just make a new team.
Let's make new stuff.You know what's cool?New stuff.
New thing.Yeah.So speaking of a brand new Frankenstein, we're going to focus only on the Frankenstein aspects of the meta series because there's no need to know about any of the other ones because, you know, again, they're modular.
But, you know, a seven soldiers make episode would be too damn long.And it also wouldn't be not as good as reading it because you should go read it.
So Frankie in this series, this is the first time in the DC universe where the character is actually the real character from the novel from Mary Shelley's or some people would name it Batman and Robin's Frankenstein.I'm so mad about that.
After the events of the novel and DC continuity, Frankie drifts off on an ice raft and makes his way to America.And from there, he reinvents himself as a bounty hunter, saving people and hunting things.
And he officially adopts the name of Frankenstein in honor of his creator. In the 19th century, he encounters Mr. Melmoth.Mr. Melmoth uses time-traveling technology where he influences certain events in history, like the first fall of Camelot.
He, in this DC universe, reveals himself to be directly responsible for providing his blood to Dr. Victor Frankenstein, which was used as part of the experiments to reanimate the dead.
So in this version, Mr. Melmoth is very much like, the experiment would not have worked without my blood.
Interesting.I don't mind that.
Yes.Now, meaning to some capacity that Melmoth is Frankenstein's second father to some extent.And he will also try to leverage that to get Frankenstein to work for him.
But Frankenstein would rather have an ongoing rivalry that spawns over the next two centuries.Sounds like him.Now, because this is Graham Morrison and because this is Weird DC Comics and Frankenstein, the rivalry would eventually take them to Mars.
Yeah.I hate that.Frankenstein went to Mars.I hate it.Well, if you can't figure it out here.I can't.Mr. Melmoth is an alien.
That's irritating.Is Frankenstein an alien?
No.So remember I said earlier that The Seven Soldiers is all about this team fighting an evil future race of aliens called the Sheetah.Mr. Melmoth is part of that race.
So the rivalry leads them to Mars where Frankie is trying to track down a bunch of children that went missing.
Melmoth is using the children for a mining operation in the caverns of Mars to fund a war against his wife, Gloriana, the queen of the Sheetah, claiming that it's an effort to save Earth.
Frankie finds the operation, he kicks butt, he takes name, he frees the children, and then he throws Melmoth into a pit of wild space insectoids that tear Melmoth apart.
But Frankie has a cool line that some could say is written by Grant Morrison, some might say maybe this was written by Mary Shelley, some might even say it was written by Batman and Robin.
He says, from when you, oh. From when you emerge from the guts of these monsters, you will still be conscious.You will still be alive in the form of dung.Fire bad.You just say fire bad.
In an homage to Phil Hartman, he says fire bad.But that should give you the idea of the attitude of this Frankenstein. We then find out that in this DC Comics that the Bride of Frankenstein is still alive.
And in the context for the original novel, the Bride did not survive, but in this continuity, she did.She's re-imagined as an assassin goddess with a couple extra of arms, and is part of a secret ops organization called SHADE.
It's an acronym, S-H-A-D-E.
Frankenstein Agent of SHADE.
Would you like to take a guess about what SHADE stands for?
Well, SHADE is reading, and reading is when you criticize someone lovingly. It's for all you Paris is burning fans out there.Would you like to take a guess on what the acronym is?Superheroes and Demons Everywhere.
It's the Superhuman Advanced Defense Executive.
That's a dumb one.Nothing will be as dumb as the various SHIELD acronyms, but that's a dumb one.Look, there are multiple SHIELD acronyms that are also beyond stupid.HAMMER is also a very stupid one, but I like this organization called Hammer SHIELD.
Basically, SHADE is a team of super beings that go on elite espionage operations against monsters. The Bride is a member of Shade and she reunites with Frankie to recruit him.He's reluctant but is manipulated to join thanks to his former bride.
As a field agent for Shade, Frank is equipped with a 3-foot broadsword believed to belong to the Archangel Michael. An antique pistol.Mixing mythology.And an implant in his head that allows him to access Shade's database.
Now, Frank hides in a time ship to travel to the Sheeta realm in the future in order to prevent their assault on the present.
He dispatches most of their army, destroys their fleet of world-destroying machines, and then he kills the captain of the Sheeta Queen's time yacht and hijacks it in order to return to the present of, you know, at the time, 2007.
Shortly after returning from the Shida intervention, he was betrayed and controlled by Clarion.This is one of the few crossovers in the Seven Soldiers of Victory.Clarion is also one of the Seven Soldiers of Victory.
He's a little witch boy with a talking cat, familiar, named what?Cheekle.Cheekle.
And he uses a witch brand to absorb control of Frankenstein in order to gain control of the Shida floating castle, the castle revolving, so that he could become the king of the Shida.
I mean, that's a very clarion plan.He's a little butthole and I love him very much.
One of the few crossovers where two of the characters actually meet.
I also want to go back to when I said that there was a Seven Soldiers of Victory post new 52 series.I mix it up with Demon Knights because they share a lot of the same characters.Yeah, that was my mistake.
Demon Knights is a cool series.Yes, but not but not.
So Frankenstein, but both have shining knighted them, which is the most important part now up to this point Yes, you know, I've just been basically Frankenstein's monster.
Yes, but actually I want to ask you What do you think about this superhero version of Frankenstein with a big honking anime sword and he's working for basically shield I hate it.Why?
That's not who the creature is.That's not the intention of the character.I don't believe that this character would first of all join a team.
I certainly don't believe that they would act as some sort of agent for a government or any other type of shady organization.I understand in comic books,
You kind of got to join a team and you kind of got to fight bad guys or be about I just this is very not for me.That's all.
It's just not a bunch of tropes that I care about.I actually think this is a nice reinterpretation for you because otherwise to me what I think is the problem is I think most versions just basically do the Frankenstein monster.
That's because he shouldn't be in the comic book universe.
Yes, exactly.But to me, that's boring.
Well, we also have some flavor on him, you know, and I know we'll touch on this in the extra a little bit, but we have a bunch of other characters who are original to the DC Comics universe who kind of do the big scary monster who doesn't speak very much thing.
So I appreciate the swing and I appreciate trying to integrate the character into the tropes.It's just not what I want to read is all.
Yeah, I get it.Yeah.Well, we're going to talk a little bit more about Stein Frankenstein's adventures. in the DC universe.But I will tell you, I hate to tell you, Seven Soldiers Victory is his best story.
I mean, Grant Morrison is anyone's best story.
But, this Frankie does get his own solo series, which is a first for Frankenstein in a comic book universe.And we're gonna talk about all that right after this.And we're back, Geek History Lesson, talking about Stein, Frankenstein.Yeah, that's right.
Frankenstein's in the DC universe.He's got a big honking sword.He was a member of the Seven Soldiers of Victory.And now, we've come to his appearance in the new 52, which I think Ashley was a little bit confused about.
Ashley, would you like to explain what the new 52 is?
So in 2011, DC was like, man, continuity's out of control.It worked in 1985.Let's do it again, except Batman and Green Lantern.Everyone's got more lines on their costume.Here you go.
Well, and they're rebooted back to their original thing.They are.
Wally West missed his mom, he ran back in time.
He wanted to make sure he left out the crucial line.And reset the universe.Because Frankenstein basically only appeared like four years before that happened.Yeah, yeah.Nothing changes.Oh.So, but he does get a solo book. Frankenstein Agents of Shade
until they tried to have a son through technology provided by shade as a reward for their efforts.Now, Frankie is very skeptical, because he knew his dad, and he's like, I don't know about those guys.
And the bride is very- Generational trauma.
And the bride is very much like, we're going to have a baby.So they do have one, and the newborn is called the spawn of Frankenstein, might sound a little familiar.
Oh, that's a nice callback.
Now the spawn of Frankenstein is actually a true blue monster.
He manages to break free of their holding facility, the spawn of Frankenstein is unstable, it's rabid, the bride tries to calm her child down, but as soon as the son gets a hold of her, he tries to kill her.
Now Frankie, being a monster killer, as a reflex, just kills the child. because it's a monster.Sure.And saves the bride.And after this incident, this is the bride, what kills the bride and Frankenstein's relationship.This is what breaks them apart.
And moving forward, they agree to work together, but their relationship is done.So this is hinted at in the seven soldiers of victory series.And this series tells you the story of like, oh, this is what actually broke them apart.
And this is the reason why she will never get back together with Frankenstein, because he literally chopped their kids head off.So We get to see, also in this version, Frankie lead an updated version of the Creature Commandos.Cool.
And in this era of the New 52, the Creature Commandos are a byproduct of Shade, with new characters like Nina Mazurski and the GI Robot.
And if these names sound familiar, this is the team that will be featured in the animated Creature Commando show, as far as I know.
As what we know right now, at the time of this recording, and such as.
And after that, Frankenstein showed up in a couple of spots, generally to fight monsters.After the House of Mystery crashed down onto the ground in Just League Dark, John Constantine called Frankenstein to come pick them up.
And John also invited Frankenstein to join the Just League Dark, to which he accepted. And, you know, because he said, now my relationship with shade has been pretty rough.They haven't given me good benefits.I'm done with this.
He stayed with the Just League Dark until it disbanded at the end of the New 52.And during the D.C.Rebirth era, Frankenstein and his bride showed up in Superman and eventually tracked down an alien called Kroof.
And after they get him, Frankenstein decides that he wants to start a new chapter with Lady Frankenstein, and he shows her a ring as a start.And Lady Frankenstein rejects the offer, says, I don't want to be your wife.
And when Superman tries to cheer him out, he literally says, this is what Superman says.This is what Superman says.Superman says, I don't know what to say. Wow.Because he can't imagine this lady being so cold to him.Yeah.
And Frankenstein just responds, there's nothing left to say and just leaves.Wow.And so, you know, to end our lesson of Frankenstein, I think there's only one thing to do.Action figure spotlight.Ashley.Yeah.
So this is the only Frankenstein in DC, in the DC universe.That actually had an action figure made of himself.
Todd McFarlane, in his infinite wisdom, because he loves monsters and bats and batman, made an action figure of this version of Frankenstein.
Wow, it's actually a very cool action figure.
I'm showing a picture of it to Ashley right now.
Yeah, you can get it on Amazon right now.I don't want it, everybody, for 26 bucks.So apparently a lot of people.Comes with a sword.
The face sculpt is actually very nice.
Comes with a, you know, like a little, like Sgt.Pepper's type vest.
It's a good looking figure.You're into this character or you're into the look of this character.You're in a monster.It's honestly, it's a great action figure.But I mean, it's McFarlane.Like he never missed.
He's one of the few.I was actually quite surprised that they made an action figure of this kind of obscure character.I could see Todd being like, I like it.We're going to make him.He likes my action figure.He did.
You know, in the 90s, he had like an action figure series called like movie monsters.He did like the Wolfman and the T-1000 and all weird things.So, yeah, you can still find him some places.
So actually, I want to end this with, you know, a discussion.Sure.You know, do you like the approach that Grant Morrison took with this character in the team?I mean, I guess here's a question like this.
Was it a mistake to give Frankenstein his own series?Should he just kind of sort of been a random, okay, I'm trying, I'm giving you several questions here.I'm sorry, here's the question.
Do you like Grant Morrison's version better after everything I've told you or do you think it should just be random?I know you already said you don't.But if we're gonna have, we have to have a Frankenstein in the DC universe.
Apparently it's inevitable. Would you rather it just sort of be random one-offs that are sort of like Mary Shelley or Batman and Robin's book, or it's this Grant Morrison version?
No, and I appreciate framing the question that way, because if we have to have a Frankenstein, I do appreciate doing a lot of creative ways to integrate him into the genre and to give him more than just the tragic story that he came from.
I still don't think he should be in the DC Comics universe. But that's, I think that's where Grant Morrison's genius shines through is their ability to take these, they're not just, there's a lot of creators who are just remix artists.
They can take something and they can update what was cool about them from the fifties to what's cool about them in the 2020s.
Grant Morrison can take something that has absolutely nothing and imbue it with like, he's like Victor Frankstein, imbue it with a life of its own.And I respect that even if I don't want to read it.So, Yes, I guess is the answer.
Yes, but no, I would rather it be this version as well.
Instead of the fact that I like the idea that this is like one of the and again, it's Grant Morrison.That's why I think he's a great writer is I'd rather have the version where he's an integral.He has his history with this universe.Yeah.
Instead of it just being like, oh, here's another Frankenstein monster.Here's another retelling of what you go back to the 19th century.And we meet another version of Victor Frank.Yeah, I don't want that.Certainly.Yeah.
Okay, so here's the other thing.Sure.Because this is our second Frankenstein episode.But what do you think it is about Frankenstein's monster that is so appealing that we are continuously bringing him up in the DC Universe?
I think it's a fear of becoming that.Like it would be horrible if you woke up and that was your life.Like if you had died and then you were re, like, that's a scary idea.That's a compelling idea.
But it's also the idea of human beings are obsessed with legacy.It's why a lot of human beings are obsessed with procreating. And this is the omen, this is the demon spawn.It's like, well, what if the thing you created is evil?
And I think that's a very compelling story to people as well.And then as we talked a lot about last week, it's the visual, it's a very recognizable visual.Everyone has a shorthand for who Frankenstein is.
Even if you open up agents of shade and you're like, well, this isn't what I thought it was, your baseline of knowledge is enough for entry.But I think a lot of the reason, I think a lot of the appeal is the aesthetic above everything else.
I mean, I think it's more because the DC Universe is more supernatural than the Marvel Universe Because the Marvel Universe is intrinsically based in science.
Yeah, but it's rife with God's it is it is but it's it's more science space than the DC Universe The DC Universe is more mythology.
It is I mean again, you look at that This is another Grant Morrison thing.You look at the Justice League and it's the Greco-Roman Pantheon.Yeah.
Yeah, and again like the the supernatural stuff just works better in the DC universe.So I think it makes sense that there is a DC.
I don't mind magic in the DC universe as much, but I hate, I pretty much hate magic in the Marvel universe outside of Dr. Strange, but I think Dr. Strange should be, it's in its own bubble.
I like Dr. Strange as being the only magic guy if we're going to do it.He's the one that they have to call in and deal with it.
I just want to add in case anyone is curious about the upcoming Creature Commando series, David Harbour is doing the voice of Eric Frankenstein.So it seems like we're getting sort of a melding of characters.And Indira Varma is the bride.
You may remember her from such things as Game of Thrones and the upcoming Dune Prophecy.
Interesting.So I wonder if we're kind of doing a melding here of Patchwork and Grant Morrison's Frankenstein.
That is what it looks like.
David Harbour would be a good voice for this Frankenstein character.
This is just for me looking at the IMDb.No other context.But I just thought we should shout that out before we wrapped up.
All right, everybody, yeah, if you wanna get some more recommended reading on Frankenstein, go over to ghlgeekishlesson.com slash recommended reading.Ashley will put up the four volumes of Seven Soldiers' Victory.That's it.
There's probably a trade up there, yeah.
But now it's time to go to the honor roll, where that is, if you go over to Apple Podcasts and you leave us a five-star review, we will read your review on the air for thanking you for helping us in the Apple algorithm.
Ashley, who is joining the list this week?
Joining us today is Sleep Lover 2015, a plus username, my friend.They say, fantastic.I love this podcast.
As someone who just recently found an appreciation of podcasts, welcome, I was very happy to find one that I could connect to and held my attention.Ashley and Jason have such great chemistry.
I was very surprised that I served with Jason in the Kansas Army National Guard and subsequently was on the same deployment in the early 2000s.Holy cow. What's your name?Who is this?My hat's off, both of your insights.
I think it's supposed to be my hat's off to both of your insights into the world of comics and all things geek.So, Sleep Lover 2015, thank you for your service.And also, thank you for your kind review.
Send an email.Send us an email, whoever, person that I know.
I'm welcoming to the teacher's lounge.I wonder who it is. Who do you remember from your time in the military?
A lot of people, but it could be a multitude of people from Southeast Kansas or wherever they live.Yeah, I know.There you go.Cool.Well, thank you for listening.Very cool.
Don't forget to subscribe and download this podcast wherever you can find us on all of the podcast apps.Ashley, where can they find Geek History Lesson on social media?
You can find us on Instagram and Threads.Come to Threads.Threads is really nice right now.Let's enjoy it while it stays nice.
Yep, it'll be nice for like a year or two.
Exactly, at Geek History Lesson.Ashley, where can they find you on Threads?You can find me at Ashley V. Robinson, the same place you can find me literally anywhere else.
And you can find me at Jawin, that's J-A-W-I-I-N.And now it's time for What Have We Learned Today?We don't have a sound effect for it yet, so we're just gonna make it run. What have we learned today about DC Comics Frankenstein?
Well, it turns out that Batman and Robin are not just crime fighters, but literary muses too.Who knew the Bat-Time Machine had a setting for Inspire Mary Shelley?
And we've also learned that in some ways, Frankenstein is the ultimate team player because he'll join your seven soldiers team, but you'll never meet.You'll never have to see him.And in some ways, isn't that the best coworker of all?
That's what all of us work from home girlies want.Your best friend who is in the trenches with you and you never have to see.
That's right.So, you know, that's very funny.
So thank you so much for listening to this spooky, probably the last spooky season GHL will do because scheduling has gotten in the way.I'm Jason Inman.
I'm Ashley Victoria Robinson.And Professor Jason, would you please dismiss the class?
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