Hello.Good morning.How are you doing?I'm good.Good stuff.Yeah.I had a really relaxed morning.So of course I had to rush the last couple of minutes.
Yeah, exactly.I had my morning coffee. And I was like, oh, we're going to have a nice talk in a couple of minutes.And then, oh, fuck.Now I have to rush.But I've got my tea, my desirable tea, and I'm ready to go, my friend.
Good stuff.Yeah.I've got my coffee.Second one today.Yeah.So it's all good.Cool.Yeah.You've got a lovely background.
I do a lot of historical reenactment and I teach cookery, so I end up with lots of cups, pottery, millstones, yeah, all that sort of stuff.But it makes a good backdrop for the podcast.Indeed, indeed.
It's also a bit how my household is looking. Or I mean, all my cutlery and stuff is all basically all historical glasswork and of course, pottery.
Nice.Yeah.Yeah.A lot of mine sits here when it's not being used.Oh, yeah.I keep it for events normally, but yeah, I should probably just use it daily, right?
Yeah.Yeah.Like a couple of years ago, I think five.I know.Yeah. a little bit more than five years ago.I just got rid of all my modern cups and got myself a lot of extra pottery and stuff from the Iron Age, early medieval period.
And then I just started using them every day, all day.Nice.Yeah.
Yeah.I'll have to think about doing that.You really should do that. I like behind me here.I've literally got stacks of cups.I don't know if you can see.
I was seeing them the first because I think it had to be or something like that.High taboo, maybe.Yeah.Looks looks similar to that.
So I think these ones I had these made by. She's a lady she's called Anotte Potts and she does multi-period stuff.So she made these in the style of like just general Saxon pottery.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.
I don't know why I've never really thought about using them day to day.It will enrich your life.
Because, you know, somebody made it with their hands.Right.And with with a lot of love. and with a lot of nerd energy and you really feel that yeah it's alive it's really alive yeah yeah yeah my latest one i've just got um
I'm starting to look into Bronze Age, so she's made me this Bronze Age cup, which is beautiful.
But the beautiful thing is that it is absolutely the same, but the pottery itself, the clay is a little less of a quality, but basically there's no difference.The shape is the same, the patterns are the same.
Once we've properly started. I was going to ask you about your interest in history and reenactment and that kind of stuff.So maybe we'll get into that as well.Yeah, let's do it.
Or I can leave all of this in and people can hear us geek out about pottery.I think that's a perfect introduction.So I have written a bunch of questions.Often I find that questions get answered within other questions.So I'm fairly adaptable.
It's more of a conversation, right?Yeah, exactly.
I also love more of a conversation type than a monologue.There's a huge difference there. So let's do just a dialogue that is hopefully interesting.
I'm sure it will be.Yeah.Hello and welcome back to the Will I Bike It podcast.I'm your host, Craig.And today my guest is Faber from Suwilo.Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me.Oh, it's my pleasure.Hopefully I said your name right.
I'll be honest.I didn't check before.
Well, in Dutch, you say Faber.So with a long, but like a lot of Scandinavian people say Faber.
So Faber or Faber, it's all fine.All right.
So I thought I've got quite a lot of questions for you, I must admit, because I've listened to your music, but I've not really kind of seen anything about yourself or the band, kind of the man behind the music, that kind of thing.I can imagine.
I don't know whether you avoid this kind of thing normally, but I've not seen any interviews with you or anything.
Exactly.Like, I'm not avoiding it, but I really love when the music does the talking.But I really feel that it's now time to explain a bit more because there's so much to explain, actually.And so, yeah, I think there's going to be a new chapter and
I'm going to be more out in the open as a person, I think.Yeah.Cause, um, yeah, like I said, there's a lot to explain.
Yeah.So, so you're in the Netherlands.Did you grow up in the Netherlands?I'm guessing.Yeah.
Yeah.Yeah.I'm basically in the middle of the Netherlands.Um, and fortunately in the, in the more greener area. Yeah, the green heart as well.It's called the failure.And, um, but, but like, uh, everything around it.
So actually the, the city where I live, the city of Arnhem, it's just.Concrete jungle everywhere in the net, but we've got this, uh, nature, nature place, really big one. or for our little country, it's a big one.
So fortunately I'm really close to there and indeed it shaped me and inspired me in my youth and still does.
So when did you first become interested in playing and then eventually writing music?
I started playing music when I was 10 and then I started with playing classical piano And, um, I think, uh, when I was 14 or 15, uh, I wanted to play, uh, rougher music like metal.So I really wanted to have, uh, some guitar lessons.
So I did that for a year.Um, and, um, so I could play piano and guitar. And then when I was 17 or 18, I got involved with my first band and that was a folk metal band.
And we started playing or they were already a thing and they were a black metal band.And back in that day, I was really into black metal.
And I joined on key keys.So I really hoped that we could go on this melodic way of black metal.Let's say a kind of Demi Moore gear or something like that.
But when I joined, they they completely stopped with that.And they said, OK, with you on our on board and having keyboards, we're going to do a completely different thing.We're going to go for folk metal.And I was like, what?What?
No, no, no, don't do that.That is childish.And like and that was back in 2005.Yeah.So so that was completely new folk metal or.Yeah.Yeah.It was quite new.And like, I really.
had to adapt on that part because I was longing to play in a black metal band.And then they switched instantly in the genre.And then I wrote, then I asked like, what is this all about?
Why do you want to make music about Vikings and silly childish stuff?And then I got some books and then I really loved what I was reading. And then I went into Scandinavian mythology.And then I was just completely hooked.
And then in 2008, where Truna released some music on MySpace, and I discovered that and that just blew my mind.Yeah, yeah, basically, it took off from there.It took quite a while because I didn't want to copy anything Einar was making.
I really respected the music and I really felt like I really want to make this. But I should not do that out of respect.So then I just played around with completely different instruments and stuff.
And then the album came out with piano and Irish flute and violin for Sovlova.So that sounded completely different.And then the second album, Soul,
was really acoustic, but already much more Nordic orientated, because I was, back in that day, I was listening a lot to Garmarna and Gjallarhorn, stuff like that, really traditional Scandinavian folk music.
And after that album, I really felt, OK, now there are so many.I have to be polite.I wanted to say copycats, but wait, like there were so many, many other players in the genre who already flirted a lot with the sound of Wardruuna.
And yeah, we've mentioned it before.I've had Jameson from Nordic Sound Channel on before.And we've kind of we've discussed that a bit before.There's so many kind of people that I suppose want to be
Maybe not want to be Aina, but they want what Wardrunner is, I guess.
Well, I think it's pretty freaky what is happening, actually.But after that acoustic album, I thought, now I can allow myself to be more in that range of the genre, but of course still completely different.
But that was 2018, so that was 10 years after I heard Wardroona for the first time.And I really think and I hope that I really made something, a new blend.I'm inspired by a lot of music genres and music styles.
But I will not deny that, but Runa really was the kickoff for me.
Yeah.Yeah.Because you're so would you class solo as a band?Because a lot of your music is more like a composition.It sounds very orchestral.Yeah, exactly.Yeah.
Yeah.Like, no, it's not really, really a band.It's also what I try to explain to everyone.Also, my musician, how I how I got them in, like.It's basically I'm the how do you say it? Who's in front of the orchestra?
Yeah, exactly.So I'm more the conductor, but also like the composer and the producer and like everything you hear, every layer is created by me and thought.
thought of by me, like also the lyrics and also the concepts of the album, everything comes from my hand.So I see myself as the father of solo.And what solo is, is maybe difficult, but I always put it like it's my spiritual output in music language.
And I've got a really amazing group around me.And that started because I needed to do my music live again after the pandemic on stages.And in that period, the music became really orchestral.So I needed a lot of musicians.
um so nowadays i've got like eight other musicians who join me on stage so we're with nine people um and uh so i always say like we're we're kind of um a viking orchestra like it is it is a joke but but like uh ultimately that that is the aim here like yeah being really orchestral
But but I would like to include include more and more historical instruments.
Because with the Viking influence, I've read your I don't know if this is correct, but I read that your lyrics are in Anglo-Saxon.
Like all the all the lyrics are in Anglo-Saxon. So what made you choose Anglo-Saxon over Old Norse, for instance?Because it's really close to Old Frisian.
It's extremely related.So when I was thinking about doing lyrics that came from me doing Galdr and Seidr, so magical singing techniques.
And because I was doing that, I didn't want to use modern Dutch because I wanted to have an element of our ancestors in there.
And then I was searching for old Frisian because that is the closest thing I could get from the language of the ancestors of the land where I'm built off, like I grew up in.
And, um, but that's really difficult because there are just a few archaeological founds with, uh, uh, old Frisian texts, like, like really small little words and stuff, but not complete, complete sentences.
Um, and then a friend of mine, who's a linguistic, uh, she told me like, uh, you know, that, that, Old Frisian and Anglo-Saxon is basically the same, right?It's developed from the same language root.
And because of the immigrants from Anglos, like Denmark, and the Saxons, the German, the Northern German part, and the Frisians who all went to England.So it's really a blend, right?And then she gave me some Anglo-Saxon rune poems.
And I was just completely amazed by it, because if you speak it out loud as a Dutch person, you really feel that it's close to your language, but it feels ancient.So it has the magical and ancestral energy.
And then back in that day, that was like 2018, that this happened.And I was starting to work with it. uh, more in a magical singing.So not with, not with my output with solo, but just for myself personally.
And I was making a third album, the Mon album.And, um, that was instrumental and it was almost done.And then she gave me this really short, uh, rune inscription on, on an antler. and it's called Woes Wildum.
And I was making an instrumental, one of the last instrumental songs when I wrote it.And I just started chanting that on one, on the track that I was working on.And it just matched completely.
And then I thought, OK, I've still got some weeks until we're done with the mixing part of that album in the studio.So I allowed myself to try to make more lyrics.
And then the Man album became the first solo album with lyrics and they're all Anglo-Saxon.And the crazy thing is that it is extremely difficult.This process is insane.It takes me so much more time than making the music.It's crazy.
uh because uh like i do my utter best to to write uh the the anglo-saxon lyrics as as correct as possible and then i send it to this friend of mine who's a linguist and she corrected the best she can she will send it back to me and then everything is fucked because i try to to make it already um fit on the music but then grammar is is fucking a lot because
words change when you say certain things.If you say just one thing to one person, or to two person, or several persons, that completely change the grammars.
And after that, I'm shaving that a little bit, and then I send it to the University of Leiden here in in the Netherlands.And then this professor has this little club with students, four or five of them, and they correct the lyrics.
And then they send it back to me.And then I pick out some lines that I really can use and maybe cancel some out.And then we have contact about pronunciation. And then I can finally record it.So it's crazy.It's completely mad.
So do you put, I mean, because you put so much effort into the words themselves, they obviously have an importance.I think we'll go into kind of the pagan elements of it later, because I've got some questions on that as well.
because you put in quite a lot of effort into the lyrics, someone like myself that doesn't understand the Anglo-Saxon, do you think it matters?Does the meaning of the song still come across?Should I be looking to understand what you're singing?
Yeah, both.I really hope that people will try to figure out what the hell I'm saying if they love a song.And I know at least one person that has a piece of my lyrics in Anglo-Saxon inked on the underarm.
And she told me like, oh yeah, this song came on the right moment in my life.I really, really loved it. then checked out the lyrics, and it was insane.I just felt, before I knew what the lyrics meant, I really felt what it meant.
So, of course, I really, always really hope that it will do something like that with people.But I really think that, like, the sound of the words are magical in itself.So that is the main key.
And indeed, I also take a lot of effort to make it really, really correct.And so I really take the energy seriously.But also what I really want to say, it all really needs to connect.And when everything connects, and when everything got
all the love and attention, then something becomes really magical.It has all to do with effort.It needs to take a lot of time.It needs to take a lot of sweat, tears, blood.It's like making, how do you say that, a carpentry?
Or no, no, how do you say it? you need to make, to weave something, right?And like back in the day to weave something, you first need to shave your sheep and then make all the wool clean and then cut the wool and then slowly make threads of it.
That will take weeks, right?And then when you have threads, you can make this tapestry And maybe you want to make a story in the tapestry, right?With figures in there and make a tapestry on the wall. for your long house, for example, right?
And, and this, this complete story on there with figures and horses and people fighting and, and symbols and trees like that will take so much time.It will take so much sweat and blood.
That's a good analogy.I like that.
Yeah, exactly.Because yeah. That's the magical thing about creating music and also creating lyrics.Yeah.
So with regard to the lyrics themselves, what is your main inspiration for what you're writing?
So really stripped back or, or in the, in the fun foundation of it, it's all about.So below or seagull or so we lose, um, it's like the sun, right?
So the moon of the sun and like our existence here on earth or reality, if you would like to say like, um, it all.
is there because of the sun or let's say the sun is a really really central point yeah because without the sun there would not be any life on earth to start with and because of the sun we've got something that um that we experience as day and night and um
And therefore, we've got this cyclical way of living and thinking on a really superficial level, but also in a really deep level.So everything that I write about in the lyrics
and the music itself are basically a dedication to the sun and the cyclic, cyclical way of, of our reality.Um, yeah.And of course that can be on a really symbolical level and really deep and mysterious level, uh, but also more plainly.
Um, but that is basically all what it is, what, what it is about.Yeah.
Yeah.So if you're sort of like you have a bit of a general interest in history, I think you're saying as well before.
So are you also interested in kind of like the old Anglo-Saxon magic and that kind of stuff?Do you know anything about that?
I know a little bit about it because what I what I know about is about it is like If you, if you look at the charms, right, are we speaking about the Anglo-Saxon charms?
There's lots of like charms and like herbal remedies and.Yeah, exactly.Exactly.Okay.So you've got like the nine herbs charm, for instance, where like you're reciting something.Excellent.
So yeah, let's call them the charms because basically they're the charms.And, and like it's a bit like the same as the Edda.
all these charms are written down by monks like christian people wrote them down they they could write they had paper and they had ink and stuff like that and time to write it all down yeah so there are absolutely like it's exactly the same as the era it has absolutely uh let's say pagan or uh yeah
pagan foundations, but ultimately saying it's written down by Christian people and influenced by the Christian thinking.
And I must say like, now it sounds that I think that is a bad thing, but that's absolutely not the case because I think every, no, not every, but like a lot of, spiritual outputs in what form, whatever, is a really beautiful thing.
And I think that Christianity is in its essence really beautiful.And like the old days, how they did it, I still would completely welcome every every type of belief, right?But they did some bad stuff.And yeah, right.
So I don't really like that so much.So I really try to keep it really close to yeah, let's say how I feel it or what I need in my life.And that is basically also trying to get rid of Christianity in a way and all this dogma.
You have to do this like this or
it is written so it is as it is written stuff like that so i really try to to keep in keep it in a feeling area and all these uh texts and uh sources i see that as a study so i study them i also study the edda back in the day and then i just
try to get it out of my mind and get it into my core or soul and then leave it there as a feeling state of mind.Let's put it like that.
To kind of use it to do your own thing.
Exactly.Yeah.To have some kind of knowledge is a beautiful foundation. But on top of that, you need to build it yourself.Something like that.
Yeah.So I think, did you say you're, you're follow a sort of pagan rather than a Christian belief system yourself?Yeah.So when did you first encounter paganism yourself?And then I guess what, what drew you to that, that way of life?
Like when I was a child, I already felt really special energies in the forest and I could not understand why we were not living in the forest. I thought it was mad.I thought it was really crazy.It is mad.It is really, really weird.
And it started with that.And then when I was a teenager, my mother was a weird hippie witch woman.And then I discovered the tradition of Wicca. witchcraft.So yeah and this was basically I would say around the year 2000 or something like that.
I was a teenager and I started to reading about Wicca and back in that day as let's say 12, 13, 14 year olds boy, I really love that.And I started to experiment also to try to put it in practice and stuff like that.
Of course, I'm in this teenage way and that just developed.It really developed when when I told before, like I went into this metal band, folk metal band.This guy gave me his books of inspiration.
I started reading them, started reading the Norse mythology.And then I discovered, oh, well, this makes sense.And this culture makes sense.And then I discovered, holy shit, the Vikings, what are the Vikings and Germanic tribes?
And, OK, Viking is a occupation, is something you do.It's not a culture in a way.We just call it like that.And then I discovered, okay, so in the Viking age, the age of the Vikings, oh, early medieval times.Okay, now it's getting interesting.
What did my people do in the early medieval time?And what was Europe doing?And what was the world doing at that time? and then I just went deeper and deeper and then I did some courses in Seider and Galder.
I don't want to brag about it but it's worth mentioning to say that it was with Einar And that was really amazing.Then it just took off.It was amazing to learn about that.And then the whole magic and the feeling of entities
like God-like entities just came together.Everything started to make absolutely sense.And then I just started working with that.Yeah, so that is basically how it developed.
So is there much of a pagan kind of community, I guess, in the Netherlands itself?
Not as much as I like.Yeah.Um, yeah, I know some people that are, are into it, but there are levels to be into it.Right.Like, uh, on a superficial way, probably I know a lot of people, but people that are really nerdy about it.
I don't know a lot of people that are really, really into it.
Yeah, it's one of those things guys.So we've got another podcast called Weird Wessex.And I know recently we mentioned on there in a recent UK census, like the amount of people that tick pagan now is growing like exponentially.
So it's definitely a growing thing.So that's why I didn't know what that kind of situation would be like for you being in the Netherlands.
Like in the last 10 years, it's crazy.When I started Sovlo, uh back in 2000 2012-13 uh not not really much people were into it in the Netherlands you you had this pagan folk scene um but it was more like a general pagan feeling about um the green man
and fairies and forest entities and like the whole viking thing just escalated really quickly after vikings and now became more and more popular and stuff like that like and now you see like a lot of interest in paganism uh, in a general way.Yeah.
So specified on, on the, the, the, the gods that we know from the Yedda.
So with your interest in history as well, has that ever led you to do any historical reenactment or anything like that?Yeah, absolutely.
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.I like, uh, I also have my, um, I don't know the English word, like, um, doesn't matter.Like I've got this Viking group, a Viking fighting group.So we're training in the combat skills of early medieval period.
And so I've got this, I've got a school or like, let's say, a group of people that are doing that.I stopped a couple of years ago, but they are still continuing the journey.
So I did that for a couple of years, being the director with a small group of that fighting group.And of course, I also did the reenactment part and went to events and stuff like that.Yeah.
Yeah.I spent a couple of days last year in the Netherlands.We went to, um, prehistoric Dorp.
Yeah.Yeah.That's it.Yeah.Really nice place.We spent a few days there, um, in one of the old, um, prison buildings.
Yeah.And we spent some time with a couple of ladies there that were really big into cooking and food and stuff.So that was really good.Cool.Cool.Cool.Cool.
Yeah.I also have a lot of footsteps there.Yeah. I did some fighting demonstrations and also making music.Then I just went with a Togo Harpa or Yohiko and a Germanic lyre and then just made some ambient music.
Yeah, because they have a proper sort of Viking festival, I suppose you'd call it, don't they?Once a year.I'm hoping one day I'll get across because it's not that far from England.I think I can do it in about eight hours.Something like that.
which is about as long as it takes to get to Scotland for me.
So exactly like doing it once is is good enough.I think like if you if you go for it once and take the effort to be there and I've eight eight hours.
then completely go for it and enjoy it and then you've seen it probably like because indeed it is amazing but still two times an eight hour drive is doing a lot of effort.
Last time we did it was actually we drove to Midgardblot. Um, and we stopped.So we did, we did Eindhoven on the way up.Then we did Denmark and Reba.We went through Sweden to like, uh, Tannum and all that.Yeah, exactly.
And then across to Norway and went to Midgard block.So it was about 3000 miles in three weeks.Wow.Wow.Wow.
And which year, which year was that?
That would have been last year.So 2023.Okay, cool. Yeah.Great.Yeah.Last summer.I've been to Midgar Blot.
Sorry.So you missed Sobelow there because we were there two years ago.
I think I saw you then because I so I've been to all but three Midgard plots, I think two or three.Yeah, because I often would get on a plane and fly over just for the weekend.Oh, yeah.But my daughter wanted to go and my wife wanted to go.
So I said, all right, my wife doesn't fly.So all right, well, we'll make a journey of it and then into a bit of an adventure.
Yeah, absolutely.And like Riebe in Denmark, it's also really beautiful.So you had a time in Sweden, so you had a beautiful journey.
Yeah.Yeah.I mean, there was many stops along the way.I mean, we probably, I'd say we went to too many places to really take everything in.I'd almost want to do it again, but maybe visit less places, but for longer.
Cause yeah, there's some beautiful places on that, that trip.
Indeed.It's a beautiful trip.
Yeah.Anyway, I digress back to your music.Um, I don't, so you've mentioned about, um, being quite inspired by Wardruna, uh, Einar Salvik.Are there any other artists or bands that have kind of inspired what you do?
Cause we've talked about like orchestras and stuff as well.So are you into that kind of music?
Yeah, absolutely.Like, uh, I listen a lot to classical music and, and film music.Uh, I love film scores and, uh, stuff like Hans Zimmer, uh, to just given a logical example.And, um, um, and, but also like back in the day,
So let's say around 2012, 2011, 12, I was really into, into ear fun.And that, that is just amazing, beautiful Bulgarian music.And hearing that I had this peculiar thought and it was like, Oh, I want to be a Bulgarian.
Like, oh my God, this, this sound is so amazing.This culture is so amazing.Um, I want to play the youth and, uh, the oud and be Bulgarian.I had this conversation in my mind about it and it was like, okay, so what is the thing here?
Yeah, you love the music, but what is this thinking about I want to be a Bulgarian?And then I thought, okay, I miss the tradition.I want to have a rich a live tradition.
And then I just started feeling like, then try to make the rich or make the bridge between the old and the new.It's like also completely there in all the messages of Wardroona and Einar Selvig. So that was a big inspiration earphone.
Um, if you like general beautiful music and maybe Bulgarian kind of middle Eastern music, then check it out because I listened to them like for, for many, many hours and like the classical stuff really, uh, really inspires me still.
uh yeah that like if you listen to my music it's really obvious uh because i would say it's pretty cinematic and pretty orchestral uh yeah definitely that that is like what i love so then i thought how can i distinct myself from all the others and uh from all the other artists within the genre and then just
I had this thought like, I really love orchestral music and cinematic music.So make it much more cinematic than the rest, then you will have a place within the genre.So that is really what I'm into.
And of course, like metal, like I don't I'm absolutely not a metal head because because I don't like most of metal.I don't like most of it.I think it's just noisy and the same again and again and again.
But there are some really amazing metal bands like, for example, Tool.They have this super cool compositions and really crazy time signatures and stuff like that.So you also hear that in solo a lot.Crazy, crazy time signatures.
It's also like there are a couple of things that I think that restrains or blocks my popularity.And one of them is the crazy far out time signatures and far out sounds and compositions, because it's not easy to listen to.But that is the point.
It needs to ask something from you.
Um, yeah, I guess that's more engaging that way.
Exactly.But, but yeah, it takes a lot of energy.
So you can basically, uh, like when I talk about the, the, the last two albums I made and a couple of, uh, last, um, EPs and singles, you cannot just put that on and, and have a nice conversation or you have to really, really in low volume.
So you basically don't hear it. But a lot of the other popular music in our genre is really calm.It's not that in your face, you can put it on and still have a conversation.But I really like like music that demands something of you.
And it demands attention.So yeah, that's what I make basically.
I wonder, because counter to kind of what you're saying, I've been listening to solo when I go to bed.I have my headphones on.Because a lot of the time when people listen to music, like you say, it's a background thing these days, isn't it?
It's just, you put it on Spotify, whatever. Not to get too kind of, I suppose, political, but I guess it's been devalued a bit because it's essentially, it's not free, but it's almost free, isn't it?
Compared to how you used to buy an album, listen to it on repeat, that kind of thing.Whereas now we don't really sit down and, or at least most people, I would say, don't sit down and just listen to an album.
But when you go to bed, you shut the lights off.So I've been going to bed a bit earlier, trying to get some more rest. Yeah.And I've been putting the solo music on and just kind of lying in the dark.But then I'm really curious.
Then I assume it is the soul album, but I'm not sure.Do you know what what do you have?
No, it's the more recent album.OK.Terrible with names.
Yeah.What is?Yeah, that's the one.OK.
But I'd really love to hear that because that album completely demanded the most of me.I really poured my soul out.It took everything like on a earthly way.It took the most money of all the albums, like I really went all in for that.
And like personally, personally, I love that album.I'm I'm in love with that album.I don't listen to it, but.I'm so.Like I like when I make an album, I don't feel the owner in a way of I feel I'm co-creating the album.Yeah.
There's something out there that is creating the album through me in a way or like I put it, I'm co-creating it together with entities.And yeah, so I'm really honored how that album came out because it's a complete story.
It is like, yeah, it is a it is round.It is a cycle and it demands a lot of you when you listen to it.It's almost like sometimes it's almost almost hysterical.Yeah.So I love hearing from you that you're listening to it when you're in bed.
Because I think personally, I think it's my favorite of your albums.
Oh, but it's not relaxed, right?You could not say it's as I say, I go to sleep to it.But I went a lot like when I was a teenager, I I listened to a lot of, uh, noisy black metal when I went to sleep.Um, I called it, uh, slap rice.
So, uh, how do you say it?Yeah.Let's say, uh, uh, freely translated, uh, sleeping noise, but more in a, in a black metal way.Um, yeah.Yeah.That also really, really works.So maybe it's a bit more like that for you with the word.Yeah.I don't know.
Possibly.Yeah. I say I can normally get through at least a few tracks before I fall asleep.So I just like the fact that it kind of there's no distractions.You're lying in the dark and you're actually focused.
There's nothing else to be thinking about looking at.You're not looking at your phone or anything like that.It's just.
And I'm just curious, like in your life, in your personal life, is there something about destiny and fate at the moment?
Are you on a crossroad in a way, are you in a crossroad of fulfilling your destiny or holding yourself back in fulfilling your destiny in a way?
I don't know.Okay.It's not something I've considered.I mean, I do multiple things, right?So like my main income is I am a house painter, I'm a decorator.
But on the side to that, I do the reenactment with where I teach deer butchery and cooking, which happens multiple times a year.And then on the side to that, I've got a couple of podcasts. Yeah.
So maybe I am on the cusp of going one way or the other.I mean, I almost gave up on this podcast, but I had some complaints.So I brought it back again.So you could class that, I guess.
Yeah, I think so.I think so.Because basically trying to keep that all going is like juggling.Do you say juggling?Yeah.You've got too many balls going up in the air.
uh yeah so everything is not getting that much attention and probably uh somewhere within yourself deep within is saying like i should put more attention to this or that yes absolutely um so basically i would say that that is the conversation of uh you and and the norns or you and um destiny
I think the Norns, the beautiful two or three Norns, are inviting you to listen to yourself and the deep wishes in your heart and giving shape to your destiny.And that is what the Wordless album is about.Okay.
That's a very interesting connection.
I think that is the subconscious thing that you want to hear that when you close your eyes and your brain wants to hear those sounds, let's get spiritual, hear those frequencies about getting aligned with your fate or your destiny.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'd say there's something to that, I guess, because people often say, I don't know how you do all these different things.
And my response is usually I do lots of things badly, because like you say, you can't commit as much time as you'd like to to these things.Yeah.
And yeah, and and like, in a dramatical way, speaking, when you disease when you die, what will people remind you of?Like, what did you do then?Right?
So you don't have to, but like, yeah, that is a good, good question to yourself to start with, like, everybody who's listening also to this podcast.It's like, yeah, ask yourself what How do I want people to remember me when I pass away?
What is the main thing what I would love people to remember? to remember you off doing what.And basically that gives you a good direction of what you need to do in this life.Because basically it's not selfish, right?
It is what you came here on this earth in this reality to bring into the world.Yeah.So have fun with that.
Yeah.Right.So just to link this back to questions that I pre-wrote, because I think this is very interesting because you don't need to answer the next question because of what we've just discussed.Amazing.
My next question was, what do you hope listeners take away from your music, both musically and spiritually?That was going to be the next question.Yeah.You've already answered it.
And every album has a different message basically, but yeah, go deep within yourself and try to figure out some big answers.
Yeah.So I don't know if you've probably not heard this podcast before, right?
I saw some glimpses of it, but not really, no.
So I have a bunch of questions that are kind of just for fun questions that I ask every guest just to like round off the interview.If that's all right.Yeah.Yeah.
Um, some of them are a bit strange, but I feel like you're the kind of guy that will just roll with it.Oh yeah, exactly.Yeah.All right.So, um, the first one is, do you think you could survive on a Viking age diet?
Oh yeah.Easily.Easily.Yeah.I like, like, uh, in this modern world. I don't eat meat at all.I'm a vegetarian for like, I would say, at least 15 years, maybe.Yeah, like 17 years, something like that.And that is basically because of the bio industry.
And like, we're doing crazy motherfucking crazy stuff with fit with food.Also, the non vegetarian food is crazy nowadays.Like, But in a holistic way, I see what it takes to get one kilogram of meat.
It's way too crazy for me in a way of how much water it costs, and how much energy it costs, and the conditions that we put these other creatures in. it's just completely crazy, but I love the taste of meat, right?Like that's not the point here.
So if it's a completely wild animal, then of course, it becomes completely different for me.So when you put me back in the Iron Age, for example, of course, I would completely love my wild boar and deer and stuff like that. Um, yeah.
And, uh, like, um, yesterday I was eating, uh, a really nice too.And we had a conversation about it.Uh, like, uh, stew is the most like traditional food I can think of.Um, yeah, it's just put, put stuff in there, whatever you have.Right.
Um, so we ate a stew with onions and, um, carriages and, um, And of course, mushrooms and loke and some nice butter.
Sorry, what's the last one?Do you say loke?
I don't know.Okay.Loaf?No, no, loke, I think.
I don't know.I don't know what that is.How do you spell it?
I like in the Netherlands, it's called price, but I'm not sure how you say it in English.Let's have a look.
Sorry.Oh, leek.Okay.Yeah.Yeah.I should have, should have suggested that.I guess that's quite obvious, but I thought it might've been something else because I thought it might've been something we don't get here.Maybe.Oh yeah.Okay.Yeah.
But like that, that is pretty, uh, solid food, like his story, historical food, right.For, for like thousands of years, thousands.Yeah.Yeah.Of course, nowadays we've got potatoes and stuff to put in there, but you can just, uh,
get that out and then become really historical nerdy.How would you say you would make a Viking Age or Iron Age stew?
Similar to what you've been saying, maybe if because of like you say no potatoes, maybe I quite a big fan of adding barley.So you got a bit of grains in there. Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.Yeah.
Yeah.Um, or even, um, something like a, like a cracked wheat, like bulgur wheat, that kind of thing.Yeah.But other than that, yeah, it's, it's a lot of herbs, uh, lots of root vegetables, um, some kind of stock.
Yeah. and like the second day your stew was even better and then you just put a little bit more extra of something in there, right?You talked about the meat before that you do a preparation of meat or something like put it in there and just
keep it in there for, for 24 hours or some stuff like that, or put it in there the second day and will become even better.So, yeah.
And that adds to all the stock and everything you get as well from the stew, just kind of, yeah.
So everybody who's listening, please eat your nice stew tonight.
It's amazing.You know what?I might make a stew today now that you've said that.
I'm going to go for a second round of stew today.
Yeah.Yeah.Nice.So next question is, is there any food you'd miss on a Viking Age diet?
Yeah, probably a lot.But like, because I also, as a modern day person, I really love the different types of food, right?So, like one day I ate really, really spicy and Indian food, or Thai. And then like a nice pasta.So it's all over the place.
And I really like that.Like every day, like what we're going to do completely different now.It's a bit like my music.It's like going into extremes, right?
one one thing is really loud and then it's gonna be really really soft and and and slow and that continuously in one song so basically i also have that with my food pattern is like um one day i want to eat really spicy and then just really soft food so i would miss that a lot uh but i think um
Like my most favorite ingredient as a vegetarian is of course cheese and as a Dutch person.So, um, uh, and, and back in the Viking age, you had a lot of nice cheese, so I will survive.I would survive.
Yeah.Okay.So the next question is probably the strangest of the bunch is what's the weirdest thing in your kitchen?Hmm.
Well, my kitchen is quite strange because as I mentioned earlier, all my cutlery is early medieval cutlery, like the cups, the pottery, the glasswork.
I'm interested actually, does that mean you don't use, do you use forks?
Yeah.Forks and knives are, are indeed spoons.Spoons are wooden spoons.But yeah.Um, and I don't use it that much, but I also have, um, uh, cook pots, um, pottery.And I think that is amazing.
So probably that is the weirdest thing in my kitchen is, is, uh, pottery to put in, in embers of fire to make stew in there or something like that.
But like a stew is really perfect for that because you have got this big pottery and you put a lot of ingredients in there, put it in the embers of the fire, keep it there for ages.And then it's a lovely, lovely dinner.
Yeah.Yeah.I've got a friend who makes pottery just as a hobby.He was on the podcast a while back and I know he listened.So hello, Paul.
And when he's testing his pots, he actually tests them on like the gas hob in the kitchen and he'll cook stews and things in them.So you can actually cook in the kitchen with them.
Cool, cool, cool.Not a bad idea.But I don't have gas in my kitchen.But yes, I love the idea.
It's just an interesting idea because you'd think they wouldn't maybe survive on a gas hob, but they do.
So yeah, they made for that extreme heat.Indeed.That's amazing.Right.I also like whenever I hold it, I'm like, will it make, but you know, it will make, but it's just weird as a modern human.You think this is not strong enough. But it is.
They do eventually break.I've got one and it's got a crack that runs all the way down.And if I fill it with milk to make cheese, it leaks.Yeah.But when it's been in the fire, it stops leaking, seals back up with the milk.
So at the moment it's surviving.
Yeah, exactly.Perfect.Perfect.
Yeah.All right.Next question is what's the worst food or drink you've ever had?
Well, I don't have a specific thing in my mind, so I was trying to crystallize it a bit.But I toured with Heilung a lot for years.Before the pandemic, I was one of the warriors from the first show ever until the pandemic.
So the last show was in England at the Jorvik Festival.
like in that period we were tour touring a lot and um sometimes the food was amazing but we also had like crazy um crazy food and uh everybody was was having diarrhea and uh puking and stuff um so i think in that period i had some
weird and, and fucked up food.Um, yeah.And nothing specific.No, I'm sorry.Nothing specific comes to mind.Uh, what happened then or what I had, what I, sometimes I also didn't know what we were eating.Right.Um, yeah.Um, so yeah.Yeah.Sorry.
I don't have a specific answer to that.
No, that's fair.Um, what's the most memorable meal you've ever had?
Then several. stuff comes up to mind.I must say, I don't want to be disrespectful for the food, but it always has something to do with the context of the eating.So
I think of, when you ask me that question, I see a couple of meals on beautiful places.Like for example, a historical open-air museum and you had a long day and you're gathering around a fire and you're getting your food.
um having a historical meaningful uh um nutritious healthy uh dinner with with a group of lovely people around the fire after a long day being out in the open that is the the those moments are when the the food really feels magical and like that you really come to to the essence of food because
in a physical way food and sleep is all that matters for the human right like drinking first and then sleep and food um like uh like we think a lot our brain has taken over but if you put it way back we're just a tube
something goes in, something goes out.If you look at single cell organisms and stuff like that, that's the only thing that is happening.And we started like that, right?
And we developed and like one cell became two and two became a couple of millions.But still, that is the essence of this reality or life itself.Breathing, drinking, so water, and then food and sleeping.
So taking in food is one of the most spiritual things you can do.You don't need a spiritual practice or anything. is the deepest, profoundest thing that there is in this life.
So you should make your dinner time holy and really appreciate what you have, what you which, yeah, what you created, because also the creating of food is really magical.You're putting different ingredients.
You've got this alchemist thing going on because you're here and, and, and then. the basic, like you put it in your mouth, you have this experience, we call it taste, and then you live, your cells build from that stuff, right?
So it's completely magical and it's the most deep spiritual Viking thing you can do.
I have one more question to round off with. But personally, I just wanted to quickly ask you, I noticed that you've got some ohm on your arm. Can I ask what it says or is that for your own personal?
So it's, I'm, I probably don't pronounce it, uh, correct, but it's all calm, right.Or calm or the writing of the Druids.Um, yeah.And it says word is so word is we talked about that album.Um, or this is the proto Germanic name for, uh, destiny.Uh, so.
when I was making the album, I was having a difficult time and I also felt like I'm on this crossroad and I need to get in contact with the norms or destiny or word. And so, yeah, I did.
I did my best to build up a connection and relationship with Destiny.That is what the album is all about.And then I felt that I needed to have this on my arm.
to remind me of that chapter, that relationship, that close relationship to faith or my faith, my destiny, and reminds me of keeping on the path of my destiny.
Nice. So the very, very last question that I ask every guest, it's hypothetical.So when you die, your relatives are preparing your grave goods.What food and drink do you get to take to feast in Valhalla?
I'm going to stick to this magical stew I was talking about.Yeah.Yeah.It's going to be nice with some lovely mushrooms.I want, I want to have some, some amazing, tasty, tasteful mushrooms and yeah.
What would you wash it down with?Have you got a preference?
Yeah.That's going to be mead.Mead.Oh yeah.Without a doubt.Yeah.I'm cliche like that.I love my mead.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.
See, I, if I was answering the question, I'm not, but if I was, I I'd steer away from mead because I happen to know in Valhalla, they've got a constant supply of mead already.So I'd take something else.
Love that, yeah.You thought about it longer than me.When you say that, I also agree.But maybe you can sneak in some herbal tea in Valhalla as well.You probably can
You can have a one-on-one agreement with one of the Valkyries or Frigga or something and say, like, can I have tea for one day?
And you will succeed.Nice.So where can people follow you?I guess most importantly, find your music.Or even, I don't know whether you've got any upcoming gigs, anything like that you want to plug.
Yeah, well, it's not out in the open yet, but we're going to start doing full-on tours in 2025.So yeah, please check that out because... We're gonna try to get in touch with a lot of people and a lot of crowd.And yeah.And I'm working on a new album.
So let's keep our fingers crossed.I really hope to release the new album in 2025. and we're gonna do a lot of cool festivals in the summer so like primarily is the music so please check out the music itself on spotify and and on concerts
But also if you want to get more in depth about what's behind it all, then of course, Instagram is the place to be.
Yeah.Perfect.Well, thank you very much for your time today.It's been a lot of fun.
Yeah, it was a lovely conversation.Thank you so much.
Quite insightful as well.Yeah.So thank you everyone for watching or listening.I'll see you all next time.Goodbye.Bye bye.
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