I'm really not concerned about this museum being the Museum of Jeff Hein.And if I were, then I'd want to do something that's never been done before.No, I don't.I want to do it in the way that's best for the story.
Because it's not the Museum of Jeff Hein.It's the Museum of Christ.It's just not about the artist.It's not about me.And it's certainly not going to make my career.It's not like I'm painting a subject matter that this country has any respect for.
I'm actually literally painting the thing that this country is disgusted by.If I wanted to be famous, I would be painting something else.
Welcome to the Creative Endeavor podcast.This is the podcast bringing you inspiring stories from creative professionals from around the world.It's Andrew Tischler here.
Pleasure to have your company in the studio once again for another episode of the podcast.I cannot wait to share this with you. In this episode, I'm talking to Mr. Jeff Hine, based in Utah in the United States.
Now, this is Jeff's second appearance on the Creative Endeavor podcast.I really love following Jeff's work.Jeff actually has his own podcast called The Undraped Artist.Perhaps you've heard of it.Perhaps you've seen this.
I was even on that podcast a while ago. He does such a fantastic job on his show and really interviews some heavy hitters and some big names.And Jeff himself, I would consider a heavy hitter.It's a real treat to listen to his show.
Now, I admire Jeff's work so much.I've been following him for years.If you're not already doing so, make sure you follow him on Instagram and on his website.
I will include those links in the show notes in the description that accompanies this podcast. Now Jeff specializes in multi-figure painting, huge portraits, biblical scenes.He paints still lifes beautifully.This guy is a master of his craft.
I really just love geeking out over his work.He's got such a painterly technique reminiscent of 19th century masters.
I wanted to ask Jeff all about his work and continue that conversation that we started a few years ago when I first had him on about some of the technical aspects of how he does what he does.
But also I wanted to hit him up about some of the things that he's working on today and also about his podcast specifically.How has this shaped him as an artist?I was surprised to hear the answer. this episode is going to be absolutely jam-packed.
But before we jump into it, I just need to take a quick minute and tell you about this episode's sponsor, Rosemary & Co.Brushes.Now, Rosemary & Co.are the gold standard of artist brushes out there.
They make the very best quality paintbrushes in the world, in my opinion.And I'm only going to recommend to you what I'm actually using myself here in the studio.
Recently, I've been getting into a few different styles and techniques, really enjoying playing with these Series 274 brushes, these little short flat brushes.
They've got a beautiful springiness and softness to them, and they create some great blended effects.
Now, I'm using these primarily for painting in oils, but they don't only have oil painting brushes, they also have acrylic brushes and watercolor brushes as well.
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Visit www.rosemaryandco.com.That's rosemaryandco.com.And trust me, your art will thank you for it. And before we jump into the episode, one more thing.
I just want to remind you there is a full exclusive video version of this podcast available only at Tisch Academy.That link will be in the description as well.If you want to see Jeff in his studio,
and me and mine, and as we're talking to each other, my editor's cutting in images and clips and all sorts of things, then check that out by visiting tish.academy.
And there's also a special segment that's gonna be only in the video version, and that is a studio tour.Jeff is gonna show us around his studio.This is exclusive to the video version.You can find that over on tish.academy.
All right, I'm excited to share this episode with you.Without further ado, let's jump straight into it.Here's Jeff Hine. in the creative endeavor. Jeff Hine, welcome to the Creative Endeavor Podcast.
Real pleasure to have you back here once again for round two.You've been producing an amazing show called The Undraped Artist.I was on there about two years ago, I think we just figured out.
I think so, something like that.
It's great to be back in the studio with you once again and talking with somebody else with such a slick setup.We're just talking about that off camera.Dude, it's my honor, man.
You're the guy whose footsteps I'm following.I'm trying to be like Andrew Tischler.And I'm not just saying that.Stop.Dude, you've got it all figured out.Seriously.I was talking to a friend of mine about it. Yeah, you just got to put together.
No, really.I'm not just saying that.I mean it.So I hope to talk to you a little bit about that too, what you're, you know, how things are working for you and your podcast and all of your other endeavors, right?It certainly is an endeavor.
Well, you're very kind.You're very kind.I will say this, that I think I was actually I was chuckling this morning.I can't remember where I heard it.It was in one of these motivational books.And it's like, what do you get when you motivate an idiot?
And you get a motivated idiot.I think I might just be a motivated idiot, Jeff, because I, I don't know.I don't know what my limitations are.And I'm like, Oh, this seems kind of cool.Let's just do this.
And and a lot of my we started having these meetings here in studio and I met with a bit of a mentor of mine yesterday. And we're starting to call them sticky noodle sessions, where you throw the noodle up against the wall and see what sticks.
And I better check myself.I heard that from Thomas Fluharty.You know, you got to throw the noodle against the wall and see what sticks.I said, dude, I love that.So I'm starting to call them sticky noodles.
And I think the podcast, the way the business has gone, it's just been one noodle after another that I've just thrown against the wall, just seeing what sticks, dude.
So I don't have it figured out, but I guess this is just a process of the figuring, you know?But you've put out a lot of shows, Jeff.I think you recently cracked your... Well, no, I think I was episode 120, wasn't I?
At the time you were, you were, you were probably in the, I don't know, in the tens or I mean, somewhere around 40 or something.
I'm at 110 now this week.I'll post my 110th.Amazing.It's been, it's been a little over, so it's approximately one a week.I've missed a few weeks for being sick or emergencies.I try really hard to get it every week.
So it's 52 episodes a year, basically.But you know what I'm doing now?I'm trying to do two a week.Oh, wow. I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start doing two week.I gotta, I gotta figure out how to pay for it.You know what I mean?
Cause you know, you know how it is.There's no money in this.I mean, maybe you're making money, but not every bit of money that the podcast brings in just goes to the editor and to other people.
So, but, uh, I want to do it because it's just, I'm just like, like you probably are.It's just. I'm passionate about it.It's just so cool to be able to talk to other artists from around the world on a regular basis, you know?
Okay, so that's what I really wanted to ask you about.Let's jump in there because, you know, this is something that I've found.
But how do you feel about, like you're talking to these artists every single week, you know, what have been some of the, some of the benefits from this that you've seen?And one thing I'd really love to know is, has it actually impacted your artwork?
Oh yeah, a hundred percent.You know, it's funny.I was at the Portrait Society last, uh, last year and this woman came up to me and said, you've really become a good painter since your podcast started. I was so unbelievably insulted.
I'm like, Oh dude, that hurt bad.That was below the belt.I don't know what, I don't know how this woman was raised, but somehow she didn't see that as an insult, you know?But, uh, I said to her at the time, I was like, I think I, I painted okay.
Before the podcast started, she's like, well, yeah, you were good, but now you're really good.And. And, you know, I've thought a lot about that.It's been, it's been like, I don't know, nine months in sports society.
And I've got to tell you, man, every now and then I think about it because I have to admit she's, she's not wrong.It's not that I've become a, uh, it's a lot of people may not notice it, but you know, I just went plain air painting yesterday.
And that's the thing that I'm really out to figure out is plein air painting because you've got it in the bag.
I don't, I've just, but a lot of artists, a lot of artists that I've interviewed, I just envy their ability to just crank out beautiful pieces of artwork in a couple hours outside.It's just mind blowing.And I really want that bad.
That's the thing, that's the area where I've grown the most.Now in my big multi-figure paintings and stuff, I've picked up little things here and there.
But, you know, you're not going to see a huge difference, but it, but I have grown, you know, but you know how it is.You've been, what you've been painting over 20 years, right?You know how it is.
You plateau, you get to a point where you kind of know the sport and it's just like incremental growth after that.
You know, it's not, you're not going to be making these huge strides, like, like, like you probably did in college or wherever you studied.
So, but, but the fact that at 50 years old in a month and, um, uh, many years of plateau, it's pretty surprising how much I have grown.I'm not, I mean, I, I honestly can't. Um, I don't want to undersell that, you know, so the woman was right.
It kind of hurt a little bit because if he was insinuating, I sucked before, but what are you going to do?
I want to say to that lady right now, uh, love you, but no, no, sorry.Yeah.
I really have learned a ton though, man.Like, uh, like the stupidest stuff, like not stupid, the most simple stuff. Like yesterday, I was out painting plein air and I really, I did two paintings yesterday and one of them, I feel like I nailed it.
I never used to nail them, you know?And I mean, that's relative compared to, I nailed it for me, right?Not compared to my guests, half of my guests who would just. wipe the floor with me.
But, uh, you know, one of the things that I brought with me yesterday, one of the pieces of knowledge was when I interviewed Matt Smith, he said that he only uses bristle brushes.He uses like, um, just flat bristles.That's it.Period.
And I thought, I'm going to try this.And one of the things I noticed about his paintings is that he really shovels on the paint.I mean, it's pretty thick, you know?
It's really chunky.It's pretty chunky, yeah.
So I went out there and I've tried all of it.That's the thing.The thing about landscape paintings, you've got a couple hours, you've got to figure out how to lay it on.You don't have time to try stuff.You just got to do it.
In the studio, I can try textures, scrape them off, try again, scrape them off. You know, I can, I have all the time in the world, but out there, I haven't, I haven't figured out how, what my brushstroke looks like in two hours.
Like what, how to apply paint in two hours and make it as beautiful as possible with as little, with this little bit of time and very economic. Um, brushwork.
So I picked up these, I just brought out a few of these bristle brushes and, uh, just shoveled on the paint.And I'm like, Oh my gosh, he's so right.This is it, man.Forget all these little soft brushes for me.
I mean, it might not work for you or somebody else, but.But that's the thing I've been just sort of, you know, there are other artists, uh, like T. Allen Lawson who I interviewed who he said he brings out color charts with him and, and just.
writes, he's got numbers associated with each color swatch on his color chart.And he'll go out there and just do a quick sketch, sometimes just monochromatic, if I remember right.And then he'll just write down the number off the color chart.
Then he'll bring that.It's basically just, it's notes.It's not even colors.It's just notes with numbers that represent colors.
And he'll bring that into the studio and he'll be like, okay, that sunset color was number 275 on this particular color chart. It's very mathematical.Yeah.Wild, right?
So it's cool to hear that stuff, but there are certain things like that, that I just, even though by the time the interview was done, I was like, I'm going to do color charts.It was five minutes after the interview.
I'm like, nope, it's not my temperament.It's not happening.You know, I'm, I'm far too impatient to be that methodical, you know? So not to say I didn't learn anything from him.I learned a ton from him too.
It's just that there are certain things that I have to just say, no, I'm just not part of my temperament.And then there are other things that I, uh, that I can totally apply.And I can't even, there's been a lot of stuff, a lot.
It's been really awesome. I mean, what's been your experience?Have you had the same experience?
Yes, definitely.Most definitely.And I mean, I drop his name at just about every podcast.You're going to say Joe Paquette.Yeah, exactly.I'm just such a fan.So am I though.
Joe Paquette's got a way of just of hitting the nail on the head, like tearing your guts out, but at the same time making you feel totally loved, you know?Yeah, he's been pretty hard on you.
A couple times on accident.No, no, it's, well, I don't know.
On accident.But it's been welcomed.It's been welcomed.It's been, him and artists like Thomas Flewharty have been a huge part of my growth as an artist.
And not just in terms of like the skill set, with just a little bits of knowledge here and there, but in terms of like mindset and motivation, that's been massive as well.
For me, when I'm talking to another artist, particularly somebody like Flew Hardy, I think that's the thing that weighs the most for me, is how they're approaching this thing.
Taking Flew Hardy directly here, he's the guy that inspired the sketch endeavor when I first started that.You talk to a guy like this, and it's like, where does his energy come from?
It's just coming out of his pores, this artistic energy, this passion, this creativity.And he's go, go, go.And he's so animated.And he's just drawing, drawing, drawing.
And as he was saying this in the first interview I did with him, it's like, you just got to draw every day, dude.You just got to go at this thing.And I'm like, fire out.OK.Draw every day.Draw every day.
And I ended up starting the sketch endeavor after speaking to him.He didn't say, you got to start this thing.It's going to be called this or whatever.
But it was like, wow, I was so inspired from that, that it changed my point of view, it changed my relationship towards what I was doing.I was seeing, he's so passionate about what he's doing.He's so driven. Could I adopt a similar attitude?
Because it highlighted for me that I wasn't quite as hardworking, driven, dedicated, and on fire as they say.
This guy's more driven than you.You can honestly say that?You've got to admit, you're not a lazy person.I mean, you are very driven.
Okay, so you'll get this, right?Okay, you'll get this. There was a couple of weeks here that I didn't paint a stitch.Not one thing, Jeff.Yeah, but that's because you've got a lot on your plate, right?Yeah, but I'm an artist.Painters gotta paint.
I know, but that's the same for me, though.There are weeks that go by that I just never touch the canvas.It's frustrating as all get out.
And this is insane.I think people are like, oh, you chuck on the microphone and turn the lights on, you do a show.The prep that goes into it is gnarly.
What it calls me to do is go, okay, you need to shift the focus to the art now, and just figure out a way to be able to do that.
I'm pleased to say, for the first time in months, last week I got in a full-time painting week, and this week it'll be another- Forty hours?Yep.And this week it'll be another 40 hours at the easel.
How many hours are you doing other things, though?I mean, are you working an 80-hour week?
Most weeks, yeah, but I have, yeah, so I get in here around, and I've been a little bit unwell recently, but I get in here around 4.30 in the morning, between 4.30 and five, and I've changed up my routine again since last time we spoke.
And then I'll just start working, go home for breakfast, spend a little bit of time with the family, come back, and then- Go home, go home meaning, isn't your studio on your property? So I'm coming to you from Lawrence now.
We moved back down to the South Island of New Zealand.So I'm back in my old studio that I had when I used to live down here.I've come back to the old building.
So I have a building in the main street of the town that I live in, and my house is a hundred yards from the studio.Oh, that's excellent.Yeah.I miss my wife and my son, but it is nice to have this space just dedicated for art.
It's absolutely wonderful. Yeah, so it's been an interesting process, but again, it's an idiot throwing noodles at the wall just seeing what sticks, right?And I think I'm getting to the point where I hesitate to say I've got it figured out.
I don't, because I know that I'm headed for a fall as soon as I say, yeah, I got it worked out.Well, how about this?Another spanner gets thrown in the works.
But back to you, Jeff, because that's so interesting, you know, from the technical standpoint.
You know, I've had a few aha moments like that, but this plein air thing, dude, if you want to get your teeth kicked in or your butt handed to you on a platter, go paint plein air.Like, it's a lot harder than people think, right?
Tell me though about your setup and maybe a little bit more about how this has been informed by some other people.I'm getting asked all the time about, you know, just from a technical standpoint, what are you using?
Okay, so we covered a little bit about brushes.What's your approach to color now when you're out there?And talk us through this one that you nailed.Maybe I could even cut in an image of the painting you're talking about.
Oh no, now it's too much pressure. Well, the equipment, you mean like, uh, paint colors and stuff?
Yeah.Yeah.What's your approach to palette?
The thing is, I still don't have an approach.This, like this whole thing with the brushes was just yesterday, you know?And, uh, I haven't had a chance to plein air paint all year.
This is the first time I've been out, uh, this just this week, I've done six paintings this week and it's my first six of the year, which is really bad, but. I've just been so busy.
So I'm only just barely applying some of the things that I've been anxious to try.So I can't really say that this is my way yet, you know?Fair enough.But one of the things I've been doing lately is I'm reducing my palette.
I've always had like 27 something colors.And, uh, both in the studio and outside of the studio, at least in part, I've limited my palette a fair amount.Now that said, I'll bring in some of those colors if needed.
I'm not doing the whole Zorn thing where it's just four colors, period.But I'm at least starting with a smaller palette.And outside, that's been particularly helpful because I don't have to overthink things.It's red, yellow, and blue, basically.
And, uh, that's, I mean, it's a little more than that, but I can tell you exactly what I used yesterday.Uh, I use phthalo green blue, which I love because with parylene, it makes a really beautiful black parylene.
Um, I used a vermilion, so I have two reds, um, ultramarine blue, cerulean blue.So this doesn't sound like a limited palette at all, does it?It is for me.
And then, um, let me see cad yellow, lemon yellow, not cad yellow, lemon yellow, obviously titanium white and, uh, transparent yellow oxide.So I got about two of each color.Oh, and then the green, I did use some sap green.
So I've got like, I've got, you know, I guess it's not that limited.It's like eight or nine colors, but that's a lot better than 20 something, you know, for me.
Wow.Yeah.Yeah.I struggle with that.I get so many dang colors out, dude.And I'm still experimenting still at this stage here in the studio.I got out another five or six colors for this particular horse painting.It's just like, I need the violet.
What space can I go into here?I'm going to get out another one.And I kind of cringe because I know my students are going to be like, oh, I got to buy another one? Yeah, no kidding.
Yeah, it gets that way.It gets that way.I just want to shout out Eric Silver, by the way, it's just popped into my mind.He was based in Asheville, North Carolina, which now doesn't exist, it looks like.Have you been affected much by these hurricanes?
Oh, no, no.We're a long way from North Carolina, 2000 miles.Wow.So it's, uh, at least I don't, I don't know exactly what the miles are, but it's a long way away.Our weather is very different.That's, uh, the hurricane region.
It's very green, very wet where we live is high desert.It's very dry.So, and I, I have friends in North Carolina and fortunately for them, they, and for me as a friend, you know, they're, they're all safe, but yeah, it's crazy, man. Yeah.
Sorry to bring the tone down there, Jeff.
Yeah.Way to make it depressive.
Oh, geez Louise.I'm breaking all sorts of interviewing rules here.It's terrible.You know, but back to your podcast, like you, cause you started this thing.Well, let, let me know, like, so this was a bit of a passion project for you.
It sounds like, and you know,
I'm wondering now, like, how has this changed your, you know, we've talked a little bit about how it might've changed your approach to the art side of things, but now in terms of like business side of things, are you getting more ideas about, you know, ways to market yourself as an artist and different approaches?
Because I mean, I got to say that that's one thing I found is like, there's so many, for every artist, there's another approach that we could apply.
Um, you know, how has this kind of changed your focus direction or, or some new things that you're kind of playing with mentally here?
Well, it's probably a disappointing answer, but honestly, as far as marketing myself, I don't think I've picked up much because I'm not really looking for that.Right.
I've kind of got what I'm doing going and it's, you know, it should, I'm hoping, you know, if all goes well, that it'll continue to keep moving forward as far as my painting business. So I'm not really looking for any changes there.
So I've mostly just been after technique.I've been fascinated though, by just how many artists, for example, sell things on Instagram and stuff.Like I, I mean, I'm doing 10 foot tall painting.You don't buy a 10 foot tall painting off of Instagram.
Right.But, um, but it's still kind of wild and I'm buying paintings off of Instagram all the time.Um,
But it's, yeah, and so it's been fascinating to just learn how other people are doing it, but I haven't really applied it, because I kind of got my thing going.
And your thing right now, like, because you're moving originals, you're doing official portraits, you know, official commissions.
No, I'm really just doing one thing right now.
I guess it has been a while since we talked.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, talk to me about it.
So probably 15 years ago, I had this vision, and you'll appreciate this being Christian, but I had this vision to paint the whole life of Christ for a public collection.
Because I've been doing paintings of Christ here and there throughout my whole career, and they'll either go to a church, or they'll go, I mean, I've sold actually very few to, they're temples in my case, to my particular faith.
I've sold only a handful for temples, but mostly they go to private collectors and it just seems like, I don't know, it just seems like a strange place for a biblical painting to end up.Not so much for the client.It's great for the client.
I'm not opposed to them hanging in their house, but I just wanted them to be in a public space so more people could, could view them, you know?So I had this dream to do this, ran it by a few of my clients.
One of my clients set up a foundation and earned some money.And basically we've got this foundation that's paying for the whole life of Christ to be painted in large scale.And then they're going to build a museum for it, dedicated to Christ.
Okay.So this is a long-term project, you know, so I've quit everything else.I'm turning down most work.If one of my patrons for the foundation wants me to paint their family, yeah, I would do something like that.
But I'm really not doing, I haven't been in a gallery in four, geez, since 2008.So I, the gallery thing has not been part of my business plan for a long time, but, um,
but I'm not even selling work really, unless it's a little thing, like I'd sell some of these landscapes or something.
And the occasional portrait, I've got a friend who's in politics that he's, I mean, when he ends up needing a portrait, I'll do one for him, but it's gonna be really hit and miss, just stuff that is particularly interesting to me, but for the most part, I'm focusing on this.
So, wow.So I'm going to be busy for the, I'll be 70 probably before, uh, maybe not.I'd like to get it done in 15 years.So 65 before I can even start thinking about doing something else. You know, doing something major.
I mean, you're not just saying that, like you're, you've probably planned this out, charted this out, the amount of work that you want to do and timing wise, how much you can.No, this is real.
Like, I mean, I woke up in the morning, I woke up a few times, panic, like, oh man, I'm in, I'm in this.Like, this is my life for next 15 years. Um, and it's a good thing.
It's a good thing, but you know, well, maybe, I mean, maybe, you know, it is, I mean, I'm sure we've all committed to things.It's like, it's like getting married.I don't know.Maybe I remember, I remember when I got married being like, oh crap.
I hope this is the right decision.You know, it's like you get that last minute panic. And 27 years later, I can say it is the right decision, but you know, it's, it kind of feels a little bit like that, like, oh, geez, what have I built here?
You know, this is going to be a lot of work.
My panic's slightly different.I wake up panicked thinking, I hope she made the right decision.Yeah.
Well, that's how it evolves.That's what it evolves into, you know, you start to realize you were the idiot to ever doubt, but, but no, it's, uh, no, it's definitely, I wouldn't say that I live in that panic.
It's just, it's happened, you know, and it's like, oh my gosh, what have I done?But, but, um, 95, 99% of the time I live in gratitude.Like this is, yeah.
the opportunity of a lifetime, not just financially, it's not gonna change my life much because I'm getting paid market value, right?It's not like all of a sudden I'm set.No, it's not gonna change my life financially.
But to be able to someday walk in a museum devoted to Christ and to see my work as the main collection, I mean, dude, what a freaking, opportunity and blessing that is, you know, it's, yeah.
Wow.Yeah.Yeah. That, that, it's mind-blowing.I mean, this is, this has got to be the goal, right, for a lot of artists.
I mean, I used to, I used to flick through the books, you know, my art books as a kid, just go, you know what, all I got to do is meet a Medici and I'm set.You know, just have a patron.
Well, I have to have a lot of Medicis to pay for this.
Well, this is, but this is the thing, like the patronage used to be, I mean, this was an old school model.You would have a few patrons and they would, they'd be commissioning the work for this or that.
And back in the past, right, the Renaissance times, it was mostly, you know, religious institutions that were commissioning a lot of this type of art.
you know and that's how we have a lot of these paintings now because they were they were going to the go they were going to the church this is um wow what an extraordinary opportunity jeff that that's that's unreal man absolutely unreal congratulations and and what a challenge too like talk about a pressure gig you're you're you're painting god you're painting god dude so you better you better get it right
Yeah, I've been, I've been begging him to come down and show me what he looks like because everyone keeps criticizing my decisions on it.So, but he's not agreed to it yet.
So, okay, well on that, so I mean, I know we come at this, we're probably 90% aligned on most things here, but I mean, we don't need to get into that side of things, but I've got a faith, you've got a faith, but it's interesting because I look at depictions of Christ, I mean, we see it in art where we know like of a bunch of famous paintings from the past,
How do you land on an idea of what he looks like?And do you find any live models to say, hey bro, you kind of look like Jesus to me.Jump in the studio, let me paint you from life.Like, what's your approach there?
This is really easy.I paint him, not literally, but at least generally to look like me.Like, I know that sounds crazy and it's not in a, it's not a, um, I'm certainly not elevating myself or my face. to some sort of divine level or anything.
What I'm saying is that if I were Asian, I'd paint him Asian.If I were black, I'd paint him black.If I were Muslim, I'd paint him Muslim, but I'm not.
I'm a Scandinavian, British, German guy with a 10% Jewish blood in me, and he's gonna look like me because that's what I see in the mirror, right?And when Italians painted him, he looked like he was an Italian.
When Scandinavians painted him, he looked like he's Scandinavian. And so it doesn't matter, as far as I'm concerned, what he looks like only matters to the degree that it doesn't get in the way of the message behind the painting, right?
If he's a distraction, it's a problem. But, um, but as a painter, it does matter because I got to live with this thing for 15 years and I gotta, I want to see something that I can relate to.
I want to see something that looks like, looks like something similar to what I see when I look at my wife and kids.Right.All the people that are part of me.Right.Um, so when I say me, I mean family, like I want him to look like family.
Um, that's probably a better way of putting it.And, uh, I mean, I don't, and, but man, people are critical that people, people, people are sure they know what he looks like.They're so sure.
And I, it's so funny when I post something, how many people are critical and I'm like, just loosen up, man.I didn't, I don't claim to know.It's just what matters is that again, that whatever face I choose.
Um, is something that is meaningful to me as the artist and something that's familiar.That's the most important thing.Not even meaningful, meaningful, actually I scratched that.Meaningful has nothing to do with it.Familiar to me as an artist.
So like my kids and my wife and my brothers and sisters and my mother and my father.Um, and, uh, and then, and then other than that, as long as he's, you know, in my opinion, attractive enough.
to be comfortable to the average person and not so attractive.He looks like a GQ model, strong enough that he represents grandeur, but not so strong that his whole priority is being in the gym 24 seven instead of preaching his word, right?
There are certain details that are obviously important, but so much of it isn't though. Right.And his race, frankly, is irrelevant.
Like I don't, you know, to me, it's, it just doesn't matter except to the degree that he is comfortable to the person giving up 15 years of his life to paint him.Right.And what comfortable to me is he looks like my family.So that's how I see it.
It's really, yeah, okay.It's really interesting.Oh man, I'm showing my biblical illiteracy here.There is a section that kind of described him in a way.I believe it could even be Isaiah 53.Yeah, yeah.You know, having a look.
not so that we would desire him, you know, so he wasn't saying he wasn't particularly, you know, good-looking, but there was a...I'm gonna stop myself here, because I'm gonna butcher Scripture, and I don't want to do that. But you know what I mean?
I think you're approaching this the right way.I wouldn't do it.I wouldn't want to take on this pressure gig.But I love the way you're approaching it, you know, in terms of this familiarity, because it's got to be like a heartfelt recognition.
I recognize, you know, you're almost saying, you know, I recognize this as a representation of, you know, the divine and, you know, the sinless man who walked a perfect life and was fully man, fully God, right?
But then you're also recognizing that divinity in the people that He's placed in your life.You know, I love that, and this is kind of a reflection of that, it really feels like, from what you're saying.Wow.
It's, it's really, it's really extraordinary.So, so talk to me a little bit about the process then of how, because one thing I love is some of the biblical stories.
So this will have like depictions of Christ himself, but, but would there be, you know, also some of these other fantastic scenarios?Like you have one here on your website.Let me pull this up.
And I'm just pulling it up here on the screen for the people watching the, the video version, which of course is officially on Tisch Academy.They're going to see this image that I'm pulling up right now.But I love this.
This is Raising of the Daughter of Jairus.Oh gosh, that thing is ancient.Dude, I love this.I did that in 2003.Dude, this is over.That was my fifth painting ever.
Oh, stop.Stop.No.Okay.No, no.
Okay.No, no.Hang on.No, no.Hang on.Now.I'm really offended by what that lady said.I'm going to be offended even more offended for you.Cause that lady's like, you didn't know what you were doing before.It's like, no, it really was.
Other than like, you know, model sessions in college, right?
I'm gonna shout out my buddy, Mike, okay?So there's only one artist who I've ever been able to share a studio with, right?And his name's Mike Norris, he's a sculptor, and he also makes beautiful little models and dioramas and stuff.
And so he's now, from the UK, he's now based in New Zealand, in the studio with me.And so he's on one side of the studio, I'm on the other.It's a big building, big room.
And he came over, because Mike will often sit in this chair for me to focus the cameras, get all the lighting right.I get it right on Mike first, and then it's like, OK, cool.Go back to what you're doing.Thanks for the lighting test.
He's sitting here looking at your painting.You know what he tells me?He's like, far out.It looks like a Victorian era painting.And it really does.The drapery, the glow coming off the shawl that she's draped in.
is just stunning, and the emotion that you've captured in those faces.So again, just want to shout you out here, man, because this is a beautiful piece.So what would be, you know, so yeah, would you take on some of these extra biblical pieces?
And if so, what are some?
I'll be painting that story again.That's one of my favorite stories.And the reason being because I nearly died, you know, from cancer.So that story is really meaningful to me.And also,
the way that her mother is clutching her and the look on the father's face.I also have a kid who has epilepsy and I've seen him seize and it's just torture.
And like, I feel like, I don't, I mean, I haven't experienced what it's like to be the mother, but I saw my mother's eyes when I was sick.Right.And she'd literally cry herself to sleep every night for a year.
And so I don't know, that painting is just, and now that as a father and having seen my kids suffer, and it's like that story hits home hard, right?It's like I've lived at least the father and the kid.
and, and really seen the anguish of my own mother in a situation similar to that.So that, but, and of course I need to paint that painting again.It's just such a significant story.In short though,
you kind of started to ask like, I think you were asking what stories I'm going to do.I pulled out 48 stories.
I think it was 48, but a lot of them are just not good paintings.You know, it's like, I'm not going to paint things like,
Um, and maybe some people disagree with this, but like Christ teaching in the temple when he was like a youth, it's just, it's just not that interesting to look at.Right.
I can't, I'm going to go for most of the healing stories, the really dramatic healing stories, because those really hit home to me and they're moving to me. for the reasons I explained.And then obviously the key stories.
I've already done the crucifixion, obviously the resurrection, the creation.I'm going to do, well, hang on, creation.
Yeah.Well, God created the earth, right?How on, okay.Whoa, pause, pause, pause.How on earth would you depict that?That is incredible.
I'll let you know when I figure it out.
What are those thumbnail sketches look like?
It's, I have no idea.I have no idea how I'm going to do it, but it's, I I'm pretty sure that'll be one of them.And then, you know, all the key stories, the baptism, the birth, you know, um, second coming probably.
Um, but then most of the ones in the middle will be the more dramatic stories, the ones that make good pictures.So a lot of the healing stories, um, some of the parables, uh, stuff like that.So, and I've narrowed it down to 29.
And my, the foundation is counting on 24 minimum or 25 minimum.I say 24 cause I finished one, 25 minimum.And then I'm hoping to do all 29.So we'll see how it goes.
And you mentioned a little something about the scale.Like, so some of these paintings are enormous.
All of them are.They're all 10 feet tall.That's the height.So what I hope is, I don't know if you've seen the, oh, what is it called?The Spanish Society Museum in New York?I've heard of it.Where they have all the Sorollas?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.The room of Sorollas.Yeah, yeah.Incredible.
And it's all the Sorollas are the same height and they just go around the room. And it's not, I mean, that's sort of an inspiration for keeping them all the same height, although it'll be, they'll be hung separately.
It won't be quite like the Sorolla Museum.The Sorolla Museum, the way I remember, it's been a few years since I've been there, but it almost felt like a comic strip in that they were just almost touching, like each painting.
So you're just moving through time of the history of Spain.Mine will be framed and separated by, you know, at least a few feet, 10 feet between them or something.
But I want them all around at or close to 10 feet so that it does feel like the timeline of Christ's life.
So these Sorolla paintings, I'm glad you mentioned that.I haven't thought about these works for quite some time.You're saying these are 10 feet tall.
No, no, no, the Sorolla ones might be bigger, I don't know.But my point is they're all the same.The way I remember is it's like a comic strip going around the room.
That's right, that's right, that's right.So if you've got a height dimension of that, like some of these I imagine are going to be some are long, some are going to be portrait, that kind of thing.
Yeah, so 13 feet is my maximum width.So I built these two easels just for the project.And one easel holds a canvas that's 10 feet tall by eight feet wide.And the other one holds a canvas that's 10 feet tall by 13 feet wide.
Now, technically the way these easels are designed, I can actually do a 20 foot tall painting. But I'm not gonna, because I wouldn't be able to see the whole painting at once.Half of it would be draped behind the easel.It's hard to explain.
The easel is designed like it's got a roller on the top and bottom, and the canvas is stretched on two sides and actually goes around the easel.
Like this, the canvas can be pulled over the roller and back down the backside and just spin all the way around this whole thing.
And that way I can lift the canvas up with just one hand and I can paint the feet and I can lower it all the way down and the bottom will wrap under the roller and back up the backside.And then I can work on the top of the canvas.What?
Yeah, it's on my Instagram.If you go to Jeff Hein Studio, there's a clip of me loading a canvas on it and showing how the thing moves around.
So you've pulled up on the screen here for the people that just listening to the podcast, you pulled up on the screen here, your Instagram, you're going to show us this.I can't even picture it.It's so out there.
Yeah, so this isn't my art Instagram.This is my studio.This is the stuff I build, Jeff Hein Studio.So I build a lot of stuff.And like up on the top are me remodeling my bathroom in the studio, building cabinets, easels that I've built and so on.
This is my thing I'm sitting at right now.Oh, click on that for me. Yeah, that's well, it's actually grown quite a bit.There's a lot more to it now.That's unreal.
Um, and then, um, things like this, like this is my, uh, this is the thing that I use for making sure I don't breathe solvents.So it just automatically opens when you put your hand by it.
Hang on, okay, hang on, let me explain this.Have you not seen this channel, man?
No, I haven't.Let me explain this for the people watching.It's obviously got some sort of sensor on it, so the minute you hover your brush over the solvent, the lid opens.Right.That's nuts.
Yeah, it's all made out of steel, powder-coated, and then obviously it's got a servo and a microchip in it.And you built that yourself.You made that yourself.Yeah, yeah. And then I've got my whole van that I put together.
I never did finish posting all the van stuff, but I built a van for plein air painting.But anyway, so here is, let's see, the easel is down here.Okay.This is it right here.I think.Yeah.So we have to watch quick.That's kind of quick, but. Oh, what?
Yeah, crazy, right?It's just rolls.So you open it because I can put a canvas on both sides.So I can put there.So there's actually right now there are two canvases on it.
I have two paintings going and and then the way you this let me show you there's a Oh, right here is how you load the canvas.So there is a, why is that not playing on video?
I think that looks like a still, but that's amazing.Let me just explain this as well for the people watching.
So this easel that Jeff has just pulled up here is literally 10 feet tall, and the canvas has gone up and over a roller at the top, and then if you adjust the side, it will go down under a roller at the bottom.
Is it okay for a painting to bend like that around these rolls?Yeah, think about it.
You roll them up to store them, right?
And it's a four-inch roller.It's not a small roller, so it's not like it's pinching.You know, and the hardest thing, I tell everyone this because it's just kind of mind-blowing, but you see the bracket that holds the canvas stretched?
That was the hardest part of the whole design, this huge giant easel.And that right there is what hung me up.
Because if you think about it, something people wouldn't think about, when you roll over the top of that roller with the canvas, you can't further stretch or let slack build up.
So whatever is holding the canvas has to go, it has to follow the contour of the roller. and not add or subtract tension.It has to maintain the exact amount of tension as it goes over that four-inch roller.
So I had to design a bracket that holds the canvas that doesn't increase or decrease tension on the canvas, because that would be bad for the painting if I'm constantly stretching and slacking and stretching and slacking.
How the heck do you do that?
My brain just does not- I remember sitting at the dinner table for two hours trying to figure out that bracket. Works great.There's no added tension as you go over the roller, but it was a beast trying to figure it out.
But if you saw it today, if I, now that I show you it, if I showed you the bracket, you'd be like, well, yeah, obviously, but it didn't seem obvious at the time.
It was like, oh man, dude, I mean, what took you two hours at the, at the dinner table would take me 20 years and I still wouldn't know.I don't know about that.Pretty brilliant, dude. No, no, no, no, no, not like this, Jeff.
No, no, no, this is next level.I love your approach to problem solving here and how you're making these different things that just make your life as an artist even better.
I mean, we did talk a little bit about the van in the last episode that we did, where you were you were a guest on the Creative Endeavor last time.
We talked a little bit about that because there, a lot of that van was part of the necessity of your particular medical issues and stuff.You needed something that would give you a level of comfort that you wouldn't have in an ordinary situation.
What you've got going on is extraordinary.And so to be able to face that challenge, you're having to come up with these solutions. But it's so inspiring watching how you get through this.But I really appreciate that.
The size of your space is pretty impressive.It seems like we're in similar size buildings.How big is this space that you're in and how tall is the ceiling?
The ceilings start at 14 feet and then they go down to 12 feet on the one other end.So where I paint, the lowest point is about 13 feet. And then on the opposite side where it's only 12 feet, that's where I have my shop and all that other stuff.
But there's a bar, I capped it at 10 feet because there is a bar that goes across my studio that the easel needs to slide under that is about 10 foot three.So I had to make sure that it could go under.
And I figured, geez, Louise, man, I can't imagine painting taller than 10 feet consistently anyway. You know, there's not a lot of buildings.Once you put a frame on that, you're talking maybe as much as 12 feet, at least 11.
And then you need two feet underneath it, two feet above it.Now we're up to, you know, 15 foot ceilings just to hang the painting.So it seemed like a rational place to stop anyway.
So many directions I wanna go in now, like my mind.
See, that's why you don't prepare, man.You never have any trouble.
My mind is literally blown right now.It's, okay.
So they're going to have to build a building specifically for this, right?
Or buy an old building.I mean, there's in Salt Lake, we have a lot of really beautiful historic buildings.It's possible they could buy something historic and renovate it. But most of the people involved wanna build something.
And so this has gotta be part of the plan.At what point does work begin?They'll say, okay, when he gets to 15 paintings, we're gonna start digging the foundation.
So 2033 is a 2000th anniversary of Christ's death. So the goal is to have the collection hanging by then, not the whole collection, but at least enough of the collection that it actually seems complete.
And then, um, and then I I'll still work on it from there.So hopefully by 2033, there'll be at least a dozen paintings, but a dozen paintings at 10 feet tall is not a small amount. No, no.So it'll be a good collection.
How quick?I want to know this, and I'm sure that several others would want to know this too.So a painting that's 10 foot by 13 foot, I guess it would depend on what it is, but how long are we taking for one of these paintings?
It really, most of the work comes down to the number of figures, because that's the most time-consuming part. And it's not even just painting the figures.It's finding the characters, working with models.It's just the tedious part.
The rest of it is like, well, I don't know.There's a lot that goes into it.Cause I have to build maquettes and stuff too.So I guess the landscape takes a lot, but once I build a maquette,
that represents the house or the building or the whatever the space is that they're occupying, then it's done.Then the hard work is done.But for the figures, like I'm working on a 12 figure one right now.
I think it's 12, one, two, three, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12.Yeah, 12.I still, I'm halfway through the painting and I still haven't found four of the people.
You know, it's just tedious trying to find the right characters and it can be time consuming. So, and then, you know, you gotta work with the models and you gotta do sketches of the models and you gotta build, make costumes for the models.
And it's just a lot of work, but you know, there'll be some paintings like, like the crucifixion was maybe four months.It took, I had it in my studio for a year, but it was really only about four months of work.Cause it's only one figure.
So it just depends on how complex it is. So I'm hoping to average around nine months of painting.That's my hope.It's pretty ambitious though.So for me, I mean, there are some artists that could do it faster, but for me, it's pretty ambitious.Wow.
Do we have any information at all on how long it took Joaquin Sorolla to do his works?
Well, he's a much looser painter than I am.
He is, he's using a shovel, I think.
Yeah.So it's kind of apples and oranges and he's a very, he does paint in layers, but not in the same way I do in that my process is layer oriented.I mean, it's all about the layers.
If, if Soroya painted in layers from what I can tell, studying his paintings, it was because he wasn't done the day before.Right.So he adds more paint.
Whereas mine is a deliberate stacking of layers to create a certain effect, which is inspired by artists like Rembrandt. You know, it's a very different process.
So, so I couldn't paint as fast as him, even if I were as, as, um, skilled as him, which I'm not, but even if I were, my process doesn't allow it.
So, um, and I want this process because, um, I studied Rembrandt for many years because I just felt like it needed to be a classical process. You know, and I have thought back, like maybe these should have been contemporary.
Maybe it should have been a whole new way of looking at these stories in a contemporary way, like modern colors and shapes and abstract elements.But I keep going back to, no, I made the right decision because I genuinely mean this.
It's not about me making a difference or it's not, I'm really not concerned about this museum being the museum of Jeff Hein, right? And if I were, then I'd wanna do something new and edgy and that's never been done before.No, I don't.
I wanna do it in the way that's best for the story, right?Because it's not the Museum of Jeff Hine, it's the Museum of Christ, or whatever we name it, but it won't be Jeff Hine.And Rembrandt's way of painting, in my opinion, is the best way.
to illustrate the story.I don't want people to be distracted by all that.I would kill to be able to paint these stories in a style like, I mean, obviously I'm not in this particular style, but, oh shoot, what's her name?Zoe Frank.
A whole series of, she might be offended by this, but I don't mean it, but a whole series by a contemporary artist like Zoe Frank in her style.That'd be really cool, but it'd be more of a Zoe Frank museum, right?Right.
And this is not that, this is, I want it to be about the story and the painting.If I succeed, the painting will be so good that it gets out of the way of the story.Does that make sense?Absolutely.
It's like a, it's like if you're a filmmaker, they say about lighting people and camera people and film.If they're really, really good lighting people and camera people, then the audience never knows they're part of the process.
If they suck at it, everyone knows that someone's shining a spotlight when it should be windows, or everyone knows they suck at their job, but if they're really good at it, they're invisible.And that's the way I look at it.
I wanna be so good that I'm invisible and that the stories are maximally moving. And people aren't distracted by the flash and the layer of contemporary expression.
That adds a whole nother layer of challenge to this process.Oh, it's brutal, dude.
I feel a lot of pressure.
So it's trying to like, how to, yeah.Okay.
Yeah, I just don't know how you would do that, because naturally people are going to go, well, you're Jeff Hine.I'm aware that I'm looking at a Jeff Hine painting.
So you've added another layer of pressure to this to make the paintings so good that Jeff is completely out of the way.I just don't know how that happens.
Yeah, and it's obviously, I'm not delusional, it's obviously my name's going to be on the paintings.Of course. Obviously there's going to be recognition if they're done well.Um, but, but it's going to be minimal, right?
It's not about, it's just not about the artist.It's not about me.So, and it's certainly not going to make my career.It's not like I'm painting a subject matter that this country has any respect for.
You know, I'm actually literally painting the thing that this country is disgusted by, at least 50% of this country is disgusted by this subject, which is, so if I wanted to be famous, I would be painting something else.
Yeah.The people that aren't interested in this sort of thing, they're not listening to the podcast right now.We lost them in the first 15 minutes, I think.Yeah.Sorry about that, man.No, no, no, not at all.Not at all.
It's actually a place that I do like to go and it's something, because it's my favorite subject.The minute you come to Christ, the minute you become a Christian, it is the most important thing in your life.It has to be.
If it's not, what is that thing that's more important to you? other than your relationship with God, what is that thing?Well, you point to that thing, and you know, I can tell you that's an idol.
You know, so for me, you know, and we're not to give in to idolatry, right?
And so for me, this has to be the most important thing, and it's difficult walking in a world where, you're right, man, I mean, the country's disgusted by this, the world's disgusted by this, and New Zealand's very much the same way.
And this isn't a race issue either, you know, crisis for everybody. And it says in the word, you know, we are in the world, but we're not of the world.I'm just starting to figure out what that means, you know.
But I think it's extraordinary, Jeff, your passion and your conviction here.And you know, yes, from an economic standpoint, I think, you know, even just to find a patron, somebody that would support this sort of idea, Amazing.
What I'm excited about more though is that this, you've got this worked out to the point where you get to do the thing that you really want to do and say what you really want to say.
This is going to bring a whole nother layer of meaning and purpose to your life.That's something I just, you know, that's extraordinary.That's awesome.It's absolutely awesome. I really hope you're enjoying this episode so far.
We'll get right back to Jeff Hine.I just want to take a brief break here and tell you about this podcast sponsor, Rosemary & Co.Brushes.Now, many years ago, I made the switch to Rosemary & Co.Brushes, and I'm so glad that I did.
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Visit www.rosemaryandco.com and find out what the professionals are using.All right, let's jump straight back into this conversation with Jeff Hein. Let's geek out about the process a little bit.
Okay, so you mentioned something about the layering process of your paintings.I'd love to hear more about that, particularly with your approach to things like underpainting, and then what mediums are you using?
Could you walk us through the process, almost step-by-step?Give me as much detail as you feel comfortable with. I'm really, and I just want to add one more thing to it before you leap into this.
What I really appreciate about paintings, and I wish I could see some of these in person, I've only ever seen your work on screens, unfortunately, but I do get some indication from looking at your work as to the surface quality, and I love surface.
I love a painting that feels like a painting. I haven't quite got there yet with my surface quality.It seems like you've got a way of balancing that realism.I mean, good night.
I still come back to this portrait of this lady that you've done on your website. Oh, dang it.I had it here a minute ago.Boom.It's got the brilliant blue light.Oh yeah, the cold.
The warm and cool in this and the layering of the paint and just the painterly quality of it.So yeah, just wanted to mention that.I still love how loose it is.So walk me through.Walk me through the process here of how you're building these things up.
Well, I mean, I will.I'll give you... as much detail as I can, but the reality is every time I step up to the canvas, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing.
So I feel like I'm kind of reinventing the wheel, you know, um, and I'm constantly experimenting.So whatever I say today might be a little bit different tomorrow, but in general,
while I'm experimenting, there's always sort of a nucleus to my process that never really moves.And then I just sort of revolve around it in a way, you know what I mean?
And that nucleus is something I learned from Patrick Devonis a long time ago, who was actually one of the guests on my podcast, this awesome Swiss artist who lived in Utah for a time.We were talking once and he's a brilliant technician.
And he taught me this principle about transparent opaques. And it is, what it is, is that, how do I put this?
So the beautiful thing about oil paint is that in my personal opinion, and in his, I think, is that you can create depth with oil paint because the properties of oil paint that are unique to oil paint that you can't with any other medium.
And I mean, there might be some crossover with some other mediums, but I don't believe they're quite as good as oil. And that's by exploiting the transparency and opacity of the medium, those two extremes.
And the way that you do it is by sort of mimicking what happens in nature by using the characteristics that are present and relative to the opacity and transparency.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that transparent paint, because it absorbs light, and obviously all paint's gonna reflect some light, but the more transparent it is, the more light is absorbed.
By absorbing light, it's the closest you'll ever get to actually having the absence of light.So if I were to look at a ball on a table,
and it's casting a shadow on the table, right down underneath the ball where it's the absolute darkest, that's practically the absence of light because that's a three-dimensional form sitting on a table.It's not a picture, it's a real thing.
So if you see shadow, it's not a different color, right?It's literally absence of light. So how do you mimic the absence of light on a two-dimensional surface?Well, you use a paint that absorbs light.
Because if it absorbs light, it's the closest thing you're ever gonna get to it not bouncing back into your eye and it not existing at all.
Does that make sense?So what you do is, if you can very carefully make sure that your opacity
is your transitions from opaque to transparent are absolutely consistent with your transition from light to dark and make them perfectly aligned, then you'll get maximum three-dimensionality.So for example, if you have a 50% gray value on your
on your subject, when you paint it, you want it to be 50% transparent, 50% opaque.If you have a 75% gray, you want it to be 75%, that would be 75% transparent, 25% opaque. Right.
And if you can follow that gradient very, very closely, it's never going to be perfect, but if you can get as close to perfect as possible, you're going to maximize the illusion of three-dimensionality because as you move into the shadows, you're going to start absorbing more and more light, which is going to sort of mimic the absence of light, which is what reality is.
Yeah.Okay.Okay.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Does that make sense?It does.My brain is just going, wait, what?So what, what the heck would you use to absorb the light?What colors are absorbing light?
Well, any transparent color.So transparent colors, a lot of people think that they're, I know you don't, but a lot of people think that they're colors you can see through.
In other words, if you just thin it with enough oil and you can kind of see through it, it's now transparent.No, that's not a transparent color.
Transparent colors are actually, they're actually pigments where each particle of the pigment is like a shard of stained glass. Like the, each particle is literally transparent or translucent.
And so if you were to stack, if you were to stack, let's say you had, let's say you had like a sheet of blue glass.Okay.That's about 50% gray.It's like a cobalt color.Right. And then you, but it's very translucent.Okay.
If you were to stack that cobalt glass on top of each other, 50 layers thick, it would get darker and darker and darker.That's right.Right.Eventually it would be just really deep, deep, deep, dark blue. And that's what's happening in the pigment.
And that's why transparent colors are generally very, very dark.Because they're tiny, for lack of a better description, they're tiny, tiny shards of stained glass stacked on top of each other.
And they're getting progressively darker and darker and darker. Whereas an opaque color, no, you only see the top layer of dust or particles because it's all bouncing back into your eye.
But with transparent colors, no, the color is soaking and going all or the light is going through the color all the way to the bottom and then bouncing back up through all that paint back into your eye.
And by the time it comes back out, you've lost a lot of the light.That's right. Right?And so that's, that's that absorbency.You've trapped the light in there.
And by trapping the light, it's the closest thing you'll ever get to eliminating the light or creating the absence of light, which maximizes the illusion of form.And when I discovered this, that's discovered it.
When I was taught this by Patrick Devonis and I, in a way you sort of do have to discover it for yourself because it takes some practice to figure out how to really do it and make it work.
Man, my paintings just started like feeling like they could walk right off the canvas.
I mean, when I compare a portrait that I do today to a portrait I did in more of a 19th century sort of Bouguereau way of painting, I mean, I was never a Bouguereau, don't get me wrong, but like there was, there's a,
The Rembrandt way of painting, which is what I'm describing in my opinion, I mean, we're all, Rembrandt's sort of a mystery to everybody, but I feel like he understood this for sure.
You compare that to an a la prima painter today, a portrait that's done a la prima, which is generally, to do a la prima, you generally have to work opaque, because your shadows will, there's not enough paint to cover.
So you compare that to that and an a la prima painting every time will look significantly flatter in person.
They look great on Instagram, but if you compare something done this way in person to something done more a la prima, not using this principle in person, it's night and day.
One is flat, the other looks like you could reach out and literally like pat the back of their head.Like it's so three-dimensional feeling. in comparison.
That's one of the frustrating things, not to get way off topic, but about the world we live in now where everything is digital.It's like these things don't come across down the internet at all, right?
Because the screen is always flat and there's no transparency and opacity in a screen.
Of course.It makes terrible paintings look better and it makes really good paintings look a little worse.It does.It's kind of a leveling effect it has, right?
But how cool that we're going to have an opportunity to go and see a bunch of these works in the flesh.And so, yes, I'm sure you're going to post about it, but that there's a place to actually go is awesome.Okay, so back to the transparent colors.
So, Well, a paradigm shift for me was using lead white and starting to introduce that into my process.It was titanium.I got a lot of chalkiness in my mixes, my brighter passages that would turn pastel.
The minute the titanium hit it, it would just ruin a delicate effect because of this opacity, right?But remnants white, lead carbonate. it allowed this transparency to be maintained.It also allowed me to create more volume.
So I'm assuming here, this is something that you'd be using, right?
You want more opacity in the brightness?
Yeah, because it's white, right?So white is 100% or 0% gray.So it's got to be as opaque as possible. Wow.Okay.Now, you know, Rembrandt probably didn't have titanium white, but I don't have my, I mean, I don't know what you're doing.
No, but I mean, I can't comment on why you're getting this chalkiness, but from my experience in years of teaching, most of the time when something is chalky, And again, this may not be the case for you at all.
I would never presume to teach you how to paint.You're a master painter already, but most of the time when I see my students do it, It's not the lights that make the painting look chalky, it's the lights next to the darks.
And I've used this analogy many times, so people have probably heard it, but my wife has this beautiful warm skin and I put mine next to her and mine looks gray, my skin.
And hers is just like almost yellow, not a jaundice way, just beautifully warm, right?But she can't wear certain yellows. because all of a sudden now her yellowish skin looks like a dingy, dirty yellow next to a yellow shirt, right?
She's got to avoid certain colors.So the problem often with many people isn't the white, it's what you're putting next to the white.And it's making the mixes in your lights look pasty.But if you look at a Bouguereau painting, man, his colors,
They're just pearlescent, but he used white like you wouldn't believe.I mean, it was just, his skin was like almost monochromatic.
I saw the satyrs and the nymph, I think that's what, something like satyr and the nymph or something in the Met, and I couldn't believe how white the skin was.And, but the shadows perfectly accentuated
all of the good qualities of color that were the subtle colors in that white, the very subtle color perfectly accentuated it instead of killing it, graying it, making it muddy looking.
So I don't know, but I haven't had any trouble with titanium white.In fact, like I said, I want it to be as opaque as possible.I actually find lead white frustrating because I paint thick and I can't get enough
I go through a tube, I literally, when I did a workshop once and all I had was lead because I forgot my paint and someone gave me a big old 225 millimeter tube, millimeter, milliliter tube of lead white.
In one portrait, I went through the entire tube.One portrait, just a head. A huge tube.It was like this big.I went through the whole tube.And the reason why is because it just didn't have enough body and it didn't have enough to it.
It was too translucent.I couldn't, I couldn't get those lights to just pile up.Um, so it, you know, for me, for me, it seems to be working and I have tried it with lead and it's just not enough, enough pop. Yeah.
Do you paint fairly thin?Initially I do, and then I start to lay in some real thickness.And one thing I've been trying to do, and again, just geeking out about surface quality.
When I'm in a museum, a bit like you're describing Bouguereau there, when I'm in a museum looking at old masters, I just marvel at their surface and how they got these brush strokes with volume.
And it's like, for so long I've been scrubbing at the canvas, poking at it with these little bitty brushes and thin little bits of paint.
And so now I've started laying down the paint with a bit more gusto and just going, no, just make a damn statement. you know, bang, you know, just do it.And so this is something I'm really forcing myself out of the comfort zone.
But I got to say that for volume of paint, just pushing just sheer material, the lead has helped.And also maybe because I'm a little bit heavy handed with my approach to tone,
that I've just gotten, you know, probably previously too much of the titanium white out, but getting more of the lead out, and I will mix it with titanium and kind of go for sometimes my mixing white is just like a 50-50 combination of those two.
But I found it's been able to give me the volume that I'm looking for.So, because I want to see a structured brush mark, you know what I mean?
Yeah.And here's the thing, everyone's different.And like I said about, um, Oh, shoot.Now I'm forgetting his name.Anyway, the, the guest I had in the podcast, I said, I said earlier that, um, that there are certain things, no, it was, uh,
Dang it, the one who does the color charts.Now I'm drawing a blank.I said, isn't it?
It's like I said with him, what he does is brilliant, but it doesn't work for me.
It's like, you know, so everyone that listens to what I'm saying should take it with a grain of salt.
You gotta try everything and see what works with the way you move, the way you, you say you're heavy handed, you know, you have other mannerisms in the way you make marks, you have other,
You have natural inclinations to make certain aesthetic decisions, whether that's genetic or nurture, who knows, but it doesn't matter because it's what you are, right?
So you kind of, every artist kind of has to try these things and go, okay, you know what?Lead white works better for the way I tend to paint.
Um, and for me, it just, titanium is the one, you know, but I will say this, you know, the people who paint most like Rembrandt that I know of living today use titanium.Um, Steven Asale uses titanium.
I mean, if I remember right, I mean, I'm 90% sure, 99% sure he uses titanium.He did it at the workshop. I had him here for a workshop and he was using titanium.I'd be curious if Odd Nerdrum, I'm gonna have him on my podcast in a couple of weeks.
I'm pretty sure he uses titanium too.But that one I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure he does.So it'd be interesting in the comments if people knew, but I'll find out in a couple of weeks anyway.
Well, let me know.He'd be an interesting one to talk to, right?Because he uses the Apelles palette.
Yeah, yeah, which I'll never adopt that.I mean, that's- That's just too much.
That's, there's my point though.It's like, this is a guy, no one paints better than Odd Nerdrum, right?There are a lot of people that paint, you could argue a lot of people that paint as well, but no one paints better than Odd Nerdrum, right?
And yet there's no way my temperament would ever allow me to use your Pelle's palette.I mean, that is the grayest palette. It's just not part of my temperament, but man, his painting's gorgeous.He's gotta be using blue somewhere, surely.
That's not what I've heard.I mean, I think he's just using black.I mean, I'm looking, okay, I'm gonna share my screen here for a second, Jeb.Okay.Look at this painting.You can't tell me this is a Pele's all the way.Like that, he's using blue.Come on.
Oh yeah, you're right.He's gotta be using blue there.
He's gotta be using blue.This one here, let's have a look.
No, maybe you could, but with all those worms, I bet you could, I bet you could make black look that blue.Maybe not.Yeah, you're probably right though.
I don't know.Whatever.It's a great painting.
Well, Zorin, they say that Zorin had this, the Zorin palette, obviously.And, but occasionally Zorin would introduce blue.Right.So it might be kind of the same situation.Yeah.Sometimes you just have to have it.
Yeah, Od Nurdrum, he's one of those guys.He's just, he's out there, but wow.Interesting.
You can't argue with a talent.
I mean, he's obviously brilliant.Yeah.Oh, wow.Well, I will listen out for that episode with extreme interest.I had a chat lined up.It fell through.I hope to get them on soon.It was just a scheduling issue.
But Nick Thurman, which is one of his pupils, And he's blown up on Instagram.He does some really interesting work, but he's obviously heavily influenced by Altner.I think he studied with him for a time, so yeah.Extraordinary, man.Extraordinary.
It's, you know, this kind of is, it's interesting, because people want to know the right way to do it.And the more artists... There's no right way.Exactly.
The more artists I talk to, it's like, this is the thing that makes art so interesting, is that we're all off in our own directions, just feeling our way around and coming up with these things. Yes, some of it can be based on things.
It's like, I like that painting.What did Zorn do here?What did Soroya do here?What did Rembrandt do?And, you know, I'm just such a fan of that, that success leaves clues.You want to get what they got, do what they did.You know, play with it.
See if it can inform your process a little bit.And so, this is interesting.Is there anything... You've built this easel that's going to accept these giant canvases you've got to work on.
But from a technical standpoint, from a layering standpoint, even just a subject standpoint, is there anything you think is like there's a bridge that you're going to have to cross here in order to pull that painting off, for instance?
Is there something, is there a piece here that's making you particularly nervous?Or is there something that you think is maybe a little bit too ambitious right now, but you've got to summon the skills or the ability?
As I say that, I'm kind of cringing because of course, you're Jeff Hein, you're going to be fine.But is there anything that's making you particularly nervous about any of these paintings in particular?
Is there one that you're like, oh man, okay, I'm going to push that one to maybe another five or six paintings and then we'll tackle that one.
Oh, I think you hit it.The creation is going to be a bear.I don't know what I'm doing there.
I think technically they're all intimidating, but no, I don't think technically any of them are more than any others, except for the fact that some are just a lot of figures and it's just, that always complicates things dramatically.
I mean, it's not just the time, but just, it's really difficult to design. multi-figures, especially when they start to accumulate.So those are the most intimidating, I would say.Um, you know, like Christ stilling the, uh, stilling the storm.
I don't know if that's the title I would use, but, um, I'm a little nervous about that.I mean, I'm going to have to build a boat.I'm thinking about as we're talking, I'm gonna have to build a boat, a little miniature boat for my Metcats.
Then I got to go, maybe I'll come to Australia where the, where the waves are just fricking huge and take some photos and come visit you.But I got to figure out that too.
I've been to the, I've been to the East or West coast of the United States a million times.I've never seen huge waves.So I got to figure that one out.Cause I really don't like using other people's photography.So I don't.
I'm not, I'm not opposed to it morally.It's not like, uh, I look down on artists that do it.I just don't do it.I don't like to do it.So I'm not going to just Google large waves, you know?So I got to figure that one out.
Um, you got to get down to just a little technical things like that.
Where?You gotta get to Yallingup in Western Australia.They have some massive waves there?Well, it's gotta be my favorite wave.
But I actually think saying that will ruin your painting, because people look at the color of it and go, no Jeff, no, it's not that color.It's like, no seriously, I photographed it, it's electric blue, it's that color. Oh, really?
It's West Coast, you get that light shining through the wave and it just explodes with this teal.Oh, that sounds amazing.It's unreal.Okay, that'd be a really interesting one.
Oh, Sermon on the Mount.That one's going to be brutal.Right.Right.Cause how many figures are in that thing?I'm not sure how I'm going to do that.Um, I mean, I might have to figure out a way to sort of summarize the scene, you know, crop in tight.
I mean, I'm not looking for the lazy way out.Don't get me wrong.
But, um, when I'm dealing with lots and lots of figures, like something like the Sermon on the Mount, um, sometimes you just want to zoom in because you don't want to be distracted by the unimportant details, you know?
So I don't know, man, they're all intimidating.I'm scared to death of my easel and my canvas on it.
So no wonder you're doing so many podcasts.Jeff, this is starting to sound like displacement activity to me, brother.Something like that.
I know, I'm procrastinating painting.No, it really is.I know there might be a little of that, but I really do have a passion for the podcasting though.Yeah.
Yeah. Well, let's see.Let's, let's talk for a minute about the podcast.We'll change gears here.So what are some of the new directions you're looking at going?And I mean, you're churning out the episodes now.
You're talking to some really interesting people.You know, I recognize most all of the names of like, fire out, he talked to so-and-so, that's cool.So what's the direction now?Also, how do you stay kind of motivated and keep going?
How do you keep that passion alive?
The motivation's not very difficult, because I just love these conversations.I mean, it's my social life, really, is what it's become. So I, uh, that's not too hard.
I mean, there are some days I'll wake up in the morning and be like, Oh, I need to paint today, but I got a podcast.But in general, I'm anxious to talk to these people.I mean, always I'm anxious too.
It's just sometimes so much stuff is on my plate that I'm like, I can't have time for this today, but you know, and I have to do it, you know how it is.But, but for the most part, I mean, I'm always just loving it.Um,
But now remind me what your question was.Oh, what do you have plans?Hmm. So I want to do another, I want to do two a week.
And now that I've got an editor and, uh, someone who posts everything and does all the legwork, I think I, it's really going to just four hours a week for me, two hours for each podcast.So I think it's doable.
Um, and, uh, I want to do, I want to start doing things like I did on my hundredth anniversary.I don't know if you got to see that, but I had Kwong Ho, Rose Franson and Joe Paquette on. And I only, I had like a bunch of questions.
This is the only time I ever wrote down questions because I thought, what are some things that these three people could talk about?You know, it's easy when you're just curious about an artist just to show up.Right.
But in this case, it was three of them.I'm like, okay, what, what is something that these three could talk about?So I had probably 15 topics.The first question I asked was what is art?And we talked for two and a half hours about that. That was it.
One question, what is art?And we went off for two and a half hours.And the great thing about those three is they're all such different personalities.
It was a great combination, but I'm going to start, I want to start bringing in three different artists. every week or at least every other week and having a conversation.And I'm tempted to just have it be random where I just send them a calendar.
They don't know who else is on it.They just sign up for one of the triple interview days and they don't know who they're interviewing with.I think that could be kind of entertaining because you never know.
I don't know if they'll go down, you know, they'll be down with it.
Just like a drop in interview.That's kind of cool.
Yeah.And then, uh, they don't, yeah, they have no, it could, we could get some weird mixes, you know, like, uh, like Joe Paquette was slamming on Dutch painters.Maybe we'll end up with Joe Paquette and Carlo Russo on the same podcast.
I don't go interesting. That'll be a brawl.So, but I'm not looking for that, obviously.
It'd be good for views, man.Yeah, it'd be great for views.
So, and then I'm also thinking about getting more art history podcasts on there.Micah Christensen, who's my guest regularly.I'd like to get him on more regularly.I have some other ideas too that I'm sort of thinking about maybe getting some more
materials, companies that know about materials, that kind of stuff.I'm kind of curious what kind of things you're thinking about too.
Well, like you, I've had to find a way to just manage the time because yeah, it's a passion project.There were a few times that I thought I'm going to hang it up.I'm done.I'm done with the podcast now.
And then I'd get an email from somebody, and just random emails from from all corners of the world.And somebody saying, I just listened to this podcast, that was a motivation I needed.
Thanks so much for doing it, and blah, blah, blah, and just really loving, beautiful feedback.And I every time I think, okay, I'm gonna hang it up. something like that will happen.It's like, no, no, no, you gotta keep going.
And so the feedback that I receive is all the motivation that I need.
We're very- You do, can I just say, man, can I just say you do have to keep going because this is the truth.This is the truth.It's not an obligatory compliment here, but dude, no one's better at interviewing in the art space than you are.
I'm not kidding when I say that.This doofus, come on.
No, here's why you're good at it.Here's why you're good at it.Because it's never about you. Right.That's my pet peeve when artists interview.
And I mean, you talk about yourself, but only in the context, only in, in this, in times when it relates to the other person, it's not like, Hey, this podcast, I'm just bringing on a guest so that I can show everyone how much I know about art.Right.
And then, and I feel like there's a lot out there like that.And you, you come off when I, and it's sincere, you come off really hungry.Like you.
Like you come off the way I feel when I do a podcast where it's like, I just, just want to know everything about this artist.
But the other thing about you is you're very, um, you, you just got the personality for it.You're just a very articulate.You're off the cuff.You don't need notes and prompts.
You just naturally good at, um, you know, you're so you're socially intelligent.Yeah. Right.And that's, and that's why I say that you're a big inspiration for my podcast, because, um, I think there needs to be more podcasts like that.
I like there's the podcast where the host is socially intelligent and curious and, um, not self-absorbed, you know, just, uh, there to learn.You know, I think that's, those are the kinds of podcasts we need out there.Wow.Especially in the art space.
Well, thank you.Yeah, my pleasure.
I'm just here to compliment, man.
I'll take it.I'll take it, man.I'll take it all day.
Uh, yeah, but don't quit dude.Unless you've got a huge following, man.How do you, I mean, that's one thing about you.It's just, it's killing me.It's my podcast seems to be doing well.
Um, better than I ever imagined it would, but yet it's so frustrating watching it grow at snail's pace.It's just like, oh my gosh.
To be, to be fair, the podcast for us is, is very much the same.It's a niche thing, right?Like, so what are we, what are we doing?Okay.We've talked here for nearly two hours, right?
And so for most people in this happy meal culture, now, now, now, so we're watching shorts and reels and TikToks and all this stuff.People have trained their brains for this instant gratification.That's what social media has done to us.
So for people, and this is generally people of an older generation, they don't want that.They want to do a deep dive and they want to know, okay, I'm going to be painting now for the next four hours.I'm going to cue up Jeff Hein.
I'm going to cue up Creative Endeavor. And we're going to geek out on the undraped artist and whatever.And so they're listening to these long-form conversations.But this is where we have the opportunity to unpack some serious stuff.
And that's what I'm excited about, you know, doing it.But the nature of the content itself means that you're not going to get those views.You're not going to get that reach that short, more instant stuff.Oh, did you see that clip, that thing?
And it's like 30 seconds or whatever.You know, that's the stuff that tends to go viral.And when we separated out the podcast from the actual YouTube channel, it was very interesting.
First of all, like we were getting a lot of views on YouTube because I was just putting them on my YouTube channel that I was doing for my normal painting tutorials.
Yeah, and you've got what, like almost 600,000 followers or something?
We're getting close to that, but what would happen is when you would look at the algorithm, the viewing would spike and then it would just drop right off immediately because people are like, oh, I see what this video is.It's not Jeff Hein painting.
He's just talking to Jeff Hein.Well, boring.I'm going to click off kind of thing.People didn't want to hang around for that.
They wouldn't listen to the whole thing.
They wouldn't listen to the whole thing.The hardcore people, the fans would stick around, but like, it's such a niche thing.
So the thing that I've realized is that the people that are listening to this, and I just want to send them some mad love right now through this microphone direct to them.Thank you for being here.
Thank you for listening this long because I appreciate it.I know Jeff appreciates it.
But it's those, that group of people, they're the ones that are really passionate about this stuff, and they're the ones that will actually take the time to not only listen, they'll turn around and write, they'll turn around and make a comment or leave a review, and they'll say, actually, this conversation made my day.
This is why I'm also becoming a little bit more unapologetic about my faith, is the, because I, to be honest, I hit it under a bushel. which we know now is... I know it's a sin to hide that under a bushel.Why?Because the world doesn't accept it.
Well, screw the world, man.I'm in the world.I'm not of the world, you know?And so this is something that's coming out a lot more in the podcast, because I can't separate me out from that now.I'm not trying to push this down on other people.
but it comes out, and then I get messages from people saying, hey, I got one just the other day.It's like, hey, thanks for being unapologetic about your love for Christ.Like, yeah, you bet.Well, he died for me.
The least I could do is talk about it in a podcast.So it's interesting, man.But you will get the people that will click off and go, oh, the last thing we need is more Christians.
Oh, I've had those comments, yeah.Not about me, though.With my podcast, And I think we're probably on the same page with this.I don't necessarily see not proselytizing as hiding your light in a bushel.
So in my podcast, the microphone is open to the guests.Like if they wanna talk about religious topics, I don't care if it's Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever, you tell me what inspires you, right?Go for it.It's your platform.
And that's how I look at it.I don't ever talk about it because I don't talk about me, right?It's not about me.The podcast isn't about me. But I'm free, this podcast, unless I misunderstood the invite, is a little more about me than my podcast, sorry.
Oh no, I wanted to use you as an opportunity to talk more about how much I know.Why would I get Jeff Hine on the podcast to talk more about what I know?Exactly.That's why you're good at it.
Dude, when I'm sitting in front of you, it's like, oh, I know nothing.Especially when you start showing your gadgets and then talking about opacity transparency.I was like... Stop, dude.You're killing me.I'm a numpty over here.
But you see what I'm saying, like I, you know, in this case, I never, I'm not shy about it.And I was interviewed by Kuang Ho.I'm not shy about it.I was interviewed, I'm interviewed, you know, I've been interviewed plenty of times.
I'm never shy about it, but on my podcast, I never talk about it because I don't talk about me.Right.But my guests have talked about it numerous times because I think that they're comfortable knowing where I come from saying these things, right?
Just like I'm comfortable with you knowing where you come from.And man, but I've had some nasty comments from it, you know?It's like, not toward me, but toward my guests.I just delete them.It's not a freaking democracy, man.
I'm like, look, you don't like my pot.You don't like what you're hearing.You can take a hike, you know?I didn't ask you to come here.I'm just offering.
this exposure to this artist, if you don't want it, move along, you know, but I'm not gonna keep your comment, your nasty comment toward my guest who sacrificed two hours at a time to share everything they know with you, you know?
That was hard getting used to, I gotta admit.Like, cause I mean, of course, of course I, you know, I wanna be liked.And I think most people like, and I don't quite trust them.I don't care what anybody thinks.
No one, no one actually believes that.
Yeah.Yeah.I'm like, I really guy, really?No, of course I want to be liked, but I, I, I've gotten better, you know, especially doing the podcast of, of being able to say, Hey, you didn't like it.No problem.It's not for you. move on, you know?
But they have to take the time and say, well, no, I'm gonna cut you a new one and I'm gonna, you know, give you my two cents worth on the way out.Yeah, so I never really saw that.It's just, if I don't like something, I just stop watching.
I know, I'm not one to comment and troll, that's for dang sure.You know, it's interesting, I learned a lesson, I'll be 50 next year, I think I mentioned that, or next month,
And it's crazy how long it took me to learn this, but I've had enough experiences now. Well, let me preface by saying I've had enough.I've had plenty of experiences where I deserve to not be liked, where I've done something that deserves what I got.
Right.Where people have been like, yeah, Jeff was a real a-hole in that moment.And I don't like him anymore.I've been an a-hole.And I think most people have at some point in their life.Oh yeah.
But what I've learned is there are probably more times where people have not liked me when I didn't do anything. They just don't like the way I look.They don't like the way I talk.They don't like my hats.
Or someone said something about me that they believed that wasn't true or whatever the case may be.And as I've gotten older, I've realized, even though we all want to be appreciated and we want to be liked, it is impossible.
to live that way that everyone approves of you.It's literally impossible.So I'm tired of trying.I'm done trying.You know what I mean?Now that's not to say I'm not trying to be a good person, right?
We, you know, obviously we need to be a good person, but I'm not, I'm not going to play that game anymore where I'm trying to like be the right person for every individual.No, that's just stupid.Cause you can't win that game.No, no.
You can't win that game.And the people that try, I mean, we end up not liking them because they're like, well, who even are you?
You know, what, what, like, like trying to, trying to please everybody and be everything for everybody and not cause offense or not, not have any part of it.Cause they're just fake anyway, right?Yeah, man.
Yeah.I know.Yeah, but you're right.
Putting yourself out there on a podcast as the host, it's, it's definitely a vulnerable place to be, but I've fortunately gotten to that place where while I'd still care, it actually, it doesn't bother me any, as much as it used to when people say things that are negative, I'm just like, well,
Yeah, I figured some of you wouldn't like me anyway.I kind of went into it knowing that, so.
Isn't it interesting that, you know, when you're thinking about it as a content creator, this is why it's so interesting talking to you about this sort of stuff, because, you know, you really get that side of things, being on the other side of this and seeing what goes on and what goes into it.
And also, Far out.The investment that goes into it of just your tech and your equipment, let alone machines, if you've got to build something that's going to do something in particular, you know.I build my stuff out of trash, dude.
Like you are proper high spec over there.It's unreal.
I think of myself as more of a maker that also paints.So I grew up making things and I'm late to the painting party.
Wow.Wow.We're just about to install.Okay, so my buddy, my buddy's an ex, I want to call him an engineer, but he was kind of fabrication, he builds stuff, he works out solutions for things.
And he used to work for government back in the UK back in the day. Um, and so, you know, I talk to him if I need some sort of solution, but let me pick your brain first.You, when we started this podcast, it was beautiful.
You just switched the lights around.You pulled a cord.It did something with a light shade.You've now got the led blue glow behind you.And then you grabbed the light, that soft box light.
And I saw it slide gracefully through your studio, but I can't see your, your, do you have a railing crossbar railing system?
Oh, my studio.I am spoiled rotten.My, I call my studio Santa's Santa's workshop because I can, I can build anything out of any material, metal, steel, leather, wood.Um, uh, I guess metal and steel are the same thing, but you get my point, but. Yeah.
So, and I've got a lot of things are automated.I've got my ceiling is packed.I mean, if I could turn my studio upside down, there would be no place to walk.
Like my ceiling is packed full of equipment and I've got 10 lights that are on accordion arms that come up and down and they slide all the way across the length of the studio, which is this particular room is 50 feet long.
They go all the way down and all the way. left to right, all 10 of them.And then I've got this great light that like is on a motor that swings down in front of my painting.That's full spectrum that illuminates the whole painting.
It's the whole width of the studio.I've got skylights on both sides.So when you saw me pulling the cord, there's this, there's a sort of a curtain that's horizontal that goes across under the skylight.The skylight's huge.It's 12 feet by eight feet.
And this blackout curtain just goes all the way across and blocks it out.Is this in your house?No, I own a building in Salt Lake, a commercial building.
And then, yeah, dude, it's like, there's so many, so many widgets and gadgets and whatnot in here.It's, uh, it's fun.If I ever had to move, it would be a disaster.I'd have to start all over.Oh, you can't move.
You can't move.I don't know.
I'm never gonna be able to, I'd like to be able to build more building, but, um, I don't think I can ever move.Yeah.Wow.In fact, I can't get these easels out of my studio.The doors aren't big enough.So I'd have to.
I'd literally have to cut, I'd have to take a torch and I'd have to cut the easels in half and then get them to the new studio and weld them back together.
That would be terrible.Do you have any neighbors that you share a wall with?
Well, there's a building right next to mine.That's just been sitting there.That's owned by a developer.They want to tear it down and develop.And I'm just dying.I'm hoping that it falls through and they will sell it to me.Take the wall out, dude.
And it's literally touching my building.And it's another building about the same size as mine.I could double my space.Mine's 3000 square feet.And this one's about 3400.Wow.I could double my space, but they won't sell it to me as of right now.
It's killing me. It's killing me.I've, I've, I've reached out to him several times.They're like, no, we're not selling it.I'm like, but what are you going to do?
Is there, is there any, is there any articulation on the camera that I'm talking to you on right now?I got, I'm dying to see up into that ceiling. Oh, yeah.Let me see if I can show you some stuff here.Come on.Let me this amazing.
I'm going to show my buddy Mike this later.This is this is cool.
All right.Let me see if I can back up enough here.
Yeah, he's all right.So here's the ceiling.
Hey, Addy.Could you go?Could you go turn on that light and lower the thing?So show him where?
Dude, I feel, I'm glad you feel that way, but I go to other people's studios, like, uh, like a Michael Shane Neal studio, for example, and it's just got a fireplace and all the furniture is perfect.And it's like, just so beautiful.
He's the most dapper artist I've ever seen.Yeah.
Mine's a warehouse.It's so it's like, I love it.It's perfect for me as a, as a person who likes to make things, but it's, but it's a warehouse with a loft. I mean, it's not.
If ever I came to visit you, you wouldn't get me out of there.You'd have to call the police.Then you should come, man.Have a good time.It'd be great, man.Actually, it's interesting.
There's a few of you in Utah that I'm lining up here that I've probably got to come visit at some point.I was talking to John Darley recently, and he's a dude.He's a real dude.He's a cool guy, yeah.Yeah.He studied under you for a little while.
He did, yeah, for four and a half years or something.
That's awesome.He's a great painter too.And it was a real joy to talk to him.But no, what a treat this has been, Jeff.I really appreciate this, appreciate your time.Again, this is why I do the podcast.Now, I don't need anybody to remind me
why I should be doing this.But I do appreciate the messages from people listening.If you want to send me a message and say, keep going, that's always nice to read.
But this is why I enjoy this, because I come away from these things thoroughly inspired. You're the man.I'm really inspired right now.I'm really inspired.I just I love what you're doing and the direction you're going.
And it's just it's incredible to watch this journey unfold continually.And I'm so excited for this big epic project that you have this this behemoth.What a subject what a What a task in front of you.It's extraordinary.I appreciate that.
Yeah, I'm honored that you invited me back.I feel special to be on twice.Of course.Of course.
This is awesome.Well, I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel now.Yeah, exactly.You're running out of people.I get it.
I totally get it. Well, if I get back on, if I get on a third time, then I'll be rolling with Joe Paquette, but I'm not, I'm not holding my breath, but yeah, no, that's, that's kind of cool.
I, well, yeah, we'll, we'll see.I know we got a lot to talk about.I know we got a lot to talk about, so I don't think we'd have any, any trouble filling up a third and a fourth.
Give me a call in five years when I have something to talk about.
Awesome.Well, hey, Jeff, I really appreciate this, man.Thanks so much for being on the podcast.
My pleasure.Well, I really hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Creative Endeavor podcast.A huge thank you and a shout out to Jeff Hine for joining me for this second installment.Man, I really got to have him back on the podcast again one day.
Hopefully not too long between these installments, but what a treat this was. Now if you enjoyed this episode and you want to follow Jeff's work, then I'll include a link to his Instagram and to his website in the show notes.
Make sure you find that in the description that accompanies this podcast.Again, if you ever want to find the video version of the podcast, you can find that at tish.academy. Find that link in the description as well.
But if you enjoyed this episode, then please do me a huge favor, would you?Would you share this on your social media?It really helps get the podcast out there to more and more people.The show is growing and I have you to thank for that.
Thank you so much for doing me a solid and sharing this with your followers on Instagram and Facebook or Twitter or wherever you got the social stuff happening. Thank you so much.
And also, while you're at it, if you can leave me a writing or a review on whatever audio platform you're listening on, it makes a massive difference to the show and how it's ranked in that algorithm and helps more and more people find it.
Thank you once again for taking this time and joining me here in the studio.I've really enjoyed your company.I'll see you again in another episode of The Creative Endeavor.
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