Welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty, hosted by Jodi Katz, founder and creative director of Base Beauty Creative Agency.
Hi, Jodi.How are you?Eleni, welcome back to podcast banter slash LinkedIn.
Yeah, thank you.Happy to be here.This is like, truly, it's one of the quickest and most fun parts of my week.It's turned into thanks to our producer, really, Natasha sets us up for these great conversations.
And we have so many great guests to introduce.But let's let's start with just kind of where we are in the world right now.A few weeks ago, our leadership team hosted an all agency workshop at base beauty, creative agency, our day jobs.
And for anybody who has not read about these and other articles, we leave these about once a quarter and to make this really effective, we clear the calendar for our teams of client calls and we just really all focus together in one room on skill building and creating joy.
We actually take literally months. to plan these, because what we're trying to think about is if we're pulling our team away from client work, it better be worth it, right?
It better be something that's going to create like really new meaningful learning for them.And of course, we want to have fun, we want to learn in a fun way.So we take a lot of time as a leadership team to think about what to do during the sessions.
And it's so meaningful, and so magical, and worth all the energy.
Mm-hmm.Yeah, I would totally agree.
I love hearing how everybody kind of weighs in and will come up with different ideas and topics that they want to up-level for their team or for themselves and will come up with the resources and the ways of the experts who we need to bring in to make it happen.
This time around, one of the sessions that people were really looking forward to joining was focused on crisis management.And we do a lot of things at Face Beauty, but we are not a crisis management agency.
But our team is really on the front line of communications in terms of community management, on social media. and representing our clients in the public relations space.
So given the temperature of the world around us and the big events coming up, we can't hide from these realities that really do encroach in our work, even in the beauty and wellness personal care industries.
Yeah, and like, we're not a crisis agency, but literally, like, if you're in marketing today, you have to be prepared for a crisis.And we've had, we've helped our clients through many of them, right?
Like we had, we've helped our clients through many recalls, we've helped our clients through social justice challenges through COVID, right?
Like all of these things, maybe it's not like a celebrity crisis, it's a really meaningful and very, very pivotal for a business that cares about their customers.
And the people on the front lines on the community management side, they're usually our youngest staffers, right?So maybe really recent graduates from college.And so they have the least work experience to draw on.
So it's really, really important that we spent time in this last workshop talking about what do they need?What kind of support can we give them?What are the communication channels?
And to do that from our end, I thought it was really important that we as an agency told our team what we represent, what we stand for in a crisis.
So pulling it out of the client work for a minute, we don't take a stand on every single issue and every cause and every crisis as a business.There's a lot of awful things that happen in the world.And there's a lot of places where energy can be put.
But we are a beauty and wellness marketing agency.And I want to just keep the focus on the things that we can incrementally over time really impact change on.So I sat down with Nicole
Clark, who's our Director of Communications, and we like really mapped out like what have we been doing historically the past 17 years that's meaningful and really reflective of who we are as a typically always all women team.
And we wrote it down and we wrote like the why and the how we support and how we make incremental impact. And we did that and presented that to the team so that they know what we stand for, right?
So if we're asking our clients to understand what they stand for, we thought it was really important that our team for sure 100% in black and white know what we stand for and how we're going to put our energy and times to support some important causes.
Yeah, it was a really meaningful conversation.I think the floor was open and people were really willing to be part of it.We learned this at a recent event we went to at WWD.
These conversations are important, not just challenging, but maybe reframing them to say that they're important conversations and that's what it felt like in that room.
So yeah, I think our community managers, they have a clear view of what we're moving forward wanting to say and represent.And I think we try to spend a lot of time like reducing gray area and just making sure that this feels like a safe space.
I really don't like gray area, especially for when it comes to like how staff navigate the organization. And of course, there's plenty of gray.Like, we can't solve it all.We do chip away at it.It's not that easy, right?
It really takes a lot of time to kind of uncover where the gray is and then to make the time to figure out how to solve for it.You know, there's a lot of gray in the work, right?There's a lot of nuance in the work.
I'd like there to be less of that in the you know, where do I work?And what does this company mean?And you know, what should I have?What should I be spending my time?But anyway, we wrote up outcomes from that session.
There's a LinkedIn article either there or there.I don't know where we are in the feed.So yeah, there is, like really, it was monumentally valuable.
And just going back to what you said, Eleni, about the Women's Rodelli, Women Empower event, there's someone on the stage, she called these instead of like tough conversations, she called them courageous conversations.
And I just thought that was really brilliant.And we had a really courageous conversation as a team around this.
And I hope that our community engagement coordinators who are doing community management feel that support from ourselves, our whole team, our whole process, and also our clients.
Yeah, absolutely.Let's talk about the show.Who do we have on today's episode?
Oh, I'm so excited about this one.Okay, so Andrew Fitzsimmons, he is like a joy.I, you know, this is a person that like, I can't wait to see in real life and give him a big hug.
I had actually met Andrew very briefly at a different Women's Rodelli event a few years ago in Miami. It was an event that was at a beach resort.
So I always try to do this when I travel, like try to spend at least just like one hour doing something local, even if my time is really tight.So I did pack a bathing suit and I had one hour before having to leave the hotel to go to the airport.
I'm like, I'm going to the beach.So I went on the beach, I jumped in the water and then who's next to me, but like super famous, Andrew Fitzsimmons. So it was just so nice to chat with him.
He grew up in Ireland, now he's literally Hollywood's go-to hairstylist.The celebrity list is very long, but Kim K is on there.
My daughter loves Kim K and anyone associated with working with her, so she was really excited that I was recording with Andrew.
I definitely have that in common with your daughter.I'm a big Kim K fan. So this is a really great way to close out our artistry-themed quarter at Wear Brains Meet Beauty.Andrew also has a great collab to share with us.
Bellamy, the number one hair extensions brand in the world, recently launched The Ponytail, which combines Bellamy's hair extensions and Fitzsimmons' styling aptitude among A-listers, including J.Lo and, of course, the Kardashians.
So it's made of 100% Remy human hair, and it's high fashion, ready-to-wear ponytails.And they're super long-lasting and durable, which I think people really want when they add hair to their head.
Yes, for sure.So make sure that you check out the Bellamy and Andrew Fitzsimmons ponytail at bellamyhair.com.And now let's get to the full story.Here's episode 269 with Andrew Fitzsimmons.
Welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty.We are a career journey podcast talking about what it's like to define success and reach for it in the beauty and wellness industries.
Today, we close out our artistry wisdom theme, I can't think of a better way to do this, with Andrew Fitzsimmons, celebrity hairstylist and founder of Andrew Fitzsimmons Hair.
Before he was known as Hollywood's top hairstylist, Andrew was obsessed with fashion and beauty for more than two decades.
His passion led him from humble roots in Ireland to cultivate his talent in the fashion industry in Paris, New York, and LA, where he counts Bella Hadid, Madonna, Mariah Carey, Kim Kardashian, Kylie Jenner, and Megan Fox as his regular clientele.
I'm excited to get into this conversation about his hair career journey, all in episode 269.Hi, Andrew.Welcome to Where Brains Meet Beauty.
Wow, thank you so much for such a wonderful intro.I've never heard of any of those people, by the way.I don't know who they are.
So I told my 13 year old daughter who just came home from school that I'm doing a podcast with you now and she's like freaking out.So you have a lot of fans of all ages.And you know, you're living a lot of people's dreams, Andrew.
Yeah, I really, I really know that I'm living my own like wildest dream and I feel very lucky that I'm able to appreciate it.
I wasn't able to appreciate for a long time because I was so focused on getting somewhere that now I'm able to actually enjoy every single day and go oh I built all of this.
I didn't realize I was building this many walls but like like positive walls into this like house that I live in now this metaphorical house and Yeah, I totally am.I feel very, very grateful to be in the position that I'm in right now.
So Andrew, I actually got to be in real life with you.I met you once.We were at the Woman's Ward Alley Beauty CEO Summit in Miami.And when I go on a trip, I really try to do one local thing.I try, try, try not to make it all about work.
So I packed a bathing suit, and I'm like, I have an hour before I go to the airport.I'm going to the beach.
And I went to the beach and I look over I'm like, oh my god, there's a famous Andrew Fitzsimmons and you were there with I think your agent or your manager.And it was so cool to meet you and you were lovely and she was lovely.
So thank you for being kind to a fan.
Oh my gosh, stop.I literally I got so nervous.I was like, because I did. I'm pretty sure I skinny dipped on that trip.But that was really late at night.I didn't know that there was anyone around.
But Miami, one of my favorite things in the world as an Islander who can't go into the water because in Ireland the water is sub-zero.
In Miami, my favorite thing to do at nighttime when the weather is nice is to get into the water at night and just like lay there and look at the stars.So I was hoping it wasn't that so great.I was fully clothed with my manager all aboard.
Yes.So this is a career journey show.We're not going to talk about hair tips and tricks and things.We're going to talk about you and really dig deep into that journey.So let's go back to childhood, Andrew.You're 10, 11, 12 years old.
What's the first career you dreamed of having?
I don't think I really thought about a career in my youth.I certainly didn't think 10, 11, 12 about hair specifically like that had to be my journey.I come from a small island.Ireland is, when you're from there and you live there it feels like
the biggest place in the world but then when you live in somewhere like America where there's like over 250 million people you're like oh I lived in a very small island.
I was incredibly, I've always been incredibly proud of where I'm from but as a child especially a child growing up in the 90s It wasn't the accepting place it is now for LGBT people.
So I just had an itch to get out, honestly, because I knew that I wasn't going to be able to be my full, gay, flamboyant, creative self there yet.I wasn't going to wait around to see if things would change. knew that I had to get on with my journey.
But before I started hair, my mother was the one who actually got me a job in a hair salon eventually.But I was always going to do something creative.I was always going to do something that was around women.
I was always going to do something using my hands.I like to build.I like to get in there. I would say I describe my brand as more of a sculptor than any kind of academic.
I do things my own way, so whatever all of that could be was what I was inevitably going to be because I always was a little different and I was never going to be... The face tattoos taught me I'm not going to be in corporate America, you know?
So I was always going to go my own journey, but at that age I had no idea in which direction it would be, but I kind of wanted to be George Michael.I just kind of, I would have, I would have settled for pop star, but hairdresser.It's good with me.
I was actually thinking about him yesterday.Like I miss him.I mean, I never met him obviously, but I, I miss him and I miss Joan Rivers as if they were people that I knew in my life.
Miss Whitney Houston every single day.I miss George Michael.I'm a huge George Michael fan.Um, I love George Michael as a, as a,
as a young gay person, I guess he was a little bit more famous in the UK and Ireland, and he was eventually, he was outed, but he was a creative, sensitive, LGBT man who wasn't able to flourish the way he should have been able to in society because he had to conform, which is kind of like a life lesson in some ways in order to gain success.
You always have to hold back certain parts of yourself. But hopefully you're able to, through your creativity, tell the stories that you want to tell.And he always did that even before he was able to be out and it was accepted.
He was able to create and write beautiful music with the message that he needed to tell in a creative way. That was definitely a big lesson for me as a gay person.
I was like, okay, if I can't shout about it, at least I'm going to hopefully have some kind of contribution to the world and show people what an LGBT person can do in certain fields.But yeah, John Rivers. Joan Rivers, man.I love Joan Rivers.
Her talk show, I actually started watching on YouTube episodes of her talk show.It was brilliant.Her talk show was amazing.She should have been a late night host for sure.I think she was sabotaged by... Men.
There's an incredible documentary that followed her when she was alive about her process, the ups and downs, and it's very moving.And when I think about how hard it is to grow my business and do the things I want to do, she comes to mind.
hustled every single day.She had a really strong vision and a really big ambition.And she lived that, it seemed like, every day until the end.But I miss her.I got to see her live with myself, my mother, and my grandmother together.
So three generations.And she was hysterical talking about, I don't know, her uterus falling out and weird things.
But I love that her humor was so intergenerational that she could make sex jokes and it wasn't cringy besides her grandmother.It was all done in such a light-hearted, beautiful way.
She's to me like a Dolly Parton, even though they have completely different approaches.I feel like they're angels who are there to make people happy.We all do it in different ways, hopefully.
Well, I want to go back, because I think this analogy to George Michael and how he was able to express himself through the music and really make these statements, it's kind of a fascinating place to start.
You're talking about wanting to get off the island.As a young person, so you said there was a career goal, just get me somewhere else.What would get you off the island?If you're 15, 16, how do you leave?What does leaving look like to you?
To me, well very luckily Ireland and Europe in general is really easy to get around.Back in the day you could get a one euro flight to Paris from Dublin.
So it was actually cheaper, it was on Ryanair which is like, no shade to Spirit, but like the Spirit Airlines.
of Ireland, like you had to pay to go to the bathroom, you had to print out your own boarding pass at home, like very, very cheap, but you could literally get from Dublin to Paris for cheaper than the bus from my suburb into the city centre.
So locally, and also when you have an EU passport, you can literally just get a plane ticket and go somewhere and you can start legally work, you can work wherever you want without any kind of papers
in anywhere in Europe, which is I think that a lot of people do in Europe, especially Irish people.A lot of Irish people emigrate to London because it's so easy.
You can just buy a $20 plane ticket and go stay with a friend because there's always Irish people.No matter where you go in the world, there's always Irish people.There's always someone's cousin that you can stay with.
So it didn't feel very daunting to leave the island, but I definitely needed a vehicle in which to do it.And as I always say, when people ask, what would you have been had you not been a hairstylist?
Or what else could you have done to get where you are?And my answer is, had it been like a flower arranger or an art painter or something, I think I would be sitting in the exact same
Home right now I think I would have had a very similar trajectory it was about me being able to utilize what I have.I'm not good at so many things so many really really basic things that are really easy for most other people that.
that people really take for granted are very, very difficult for me.I'm not an academic person.I have ADHD.Any kind of paperwork, forms, numbers, I want to run and cry.But my brain works in a completely different way.
So I have to figure out how to put all of those things together in order to leave.I knew that I was never going to be able to leave and just do nothing.That's not part of my personality either.I'm a Leo.
I need to have a purpose, I need to have a vision and a plan and luckily I had a very supportive mother so even before I thought of leaving Ireland I had already started my hair career.
I hadn't, I think I started hair when I was 13 years old full-time and I hadn't really thought about leaving the island before that because I don't think that those, I was so aware of of that being a possibility for me.
I was hoping that I wouldn't have to conform and live a life where I had to live someone else's version of life to make them feel comfortable at the sacrifice of my own freedom, which is what would have happened had I stayed in Ireland, unfortunately.
But at that age when I started doing hair I quickly realised, oh people are going to London to do photo shoots, oh people sometimes go work in Paris, oh you can travel with hair.
That was the first time I was like, oh I could leave Ireland, oh I could be around.
other creative peoples or it could be around people who try to lift each other up rather than bring each other down, which is unfortunately what happens a lot of the time in small islands.
A good friend of mine, Ricardo, one of my best friends, he's from Jamaica and they call it crab in a barrel syndrome and small islands where the fishermen will bring in the crab in a
If you put one crab in a barrel, it can escape, but you don't need to put a lid on the barrel of crabs once there's more than one, because if one tries to escape, the other will pull it back down.
So you literally don't need a lid on a barrel of crabs for the fishermen if you have more than one, because if you try to rise up, everyone else will bring you down, which is an unfortunate reality in some small towns and islands.
That's, I think, a kind of a very general or very global kind of issue.But there's always exceptions, which are the beautiful parts, like you have to accept that that's just a part of life, but then enter the people who see belief and see that.
can help you to the next level that you need to to go to so it's all part of the journey and you all you have to just accept life where it's it's all it's all unfolding and there's no right or wrong you just have to figure out how to get yourself to where you need to be.
You know this is making me think of all these parallels and we're getting a little ahead of ourselves but this idea of like wanting to advance and have a lot of ambition with people around you pulling you down I would imagine that happens when you start to get like
really good and people start talking about you and your craft.So like maybe this has happened to you with peers in the hair industry.And it probably happens to your clients, right?These are very notable people.
And like the fans love to watch, you know, someone rise, but then they just love to tear them down once they get to the top and like this, you know, pull them back into the barrel.So this sort of repeats itself no matter where you're at, right?
It's a very human idea, and it's a part of our psyche, unfortunately, that sometimes when you're not, when you know that you're not living your potential because of your own choices, it's hard to see other people do that.
And that is difficult, and I understand that it is a really difficult thing, but as you'll hear anyone in any kind of creative industry who has had any kind of
success that other people can see, success for other people, because other people's success is very different than mine, of my own career even.You have to really put it into the background.
I really don't care what people think about me or my career or what I do.I'm not doing it for other people, I'm doing it for myself.This is my journey in life and if I had listened to those voices, I never would have left Ireland.
And sometimes those voices, if they come at a really young age, they never leave.Our own self-doubt take on those voices.And it's hard to break away from that and do something new or step out of your comfort zone.
But what you have to realize is that life is, it's a very, very fragile, beautiful, short thing.And I hope that people can understand that. If you throw yourself into the universe, it always has your back in some way.
Obviously, you have to work as hard as you possibly can, and you have to apply yourself, and I've sacrificed so much.But just doing something is such a powerful thing, just even if you don't know what direction, just taking the first step.
But for people who are too afraid to, it can be very difficult to be faced with a mirror, which is someone who has done that.
So I don't take it personally and anyone who has any kind of semblance of success has to let that go and understand that that's not actually anything to do with you.It's to do with that person's own journey in life.
We're going to go deep.We're already on our way of going deep.And I want to talk about these topics because there's a lot of people chiming in on the comments who have faced their fears.We're seeing a lot of comments around this.
not really knowing what the outcome can be, but just still taking that next step.So, um, let's kind of go back in time a little bit, right?You, there was a time when you were not a super famous hairstylist, right?
There was a time when celebrities didn't have you on speed dial, right?So like, if you can take us time to that back to that, like, kind of like these moments where self-doubt or insecurity loomed over you more than confidence, right?
I'm sure there was a moment in time where that switch happened and the confidence became a higher percentage of your day than self-doubt, but we all have a little bit of that.
Was there kind of like a turning point for you when you started to kind of see yourself as someone who can do it instead of someone who might not be able to get there?
To be very, very, very honest and frank, at the risk of being unrelatable, I never doubted myself.As a child, I always knew that I was right and my small society was wrong.I always knew that.I always loved myself and when anyone had any kind of
disbelief in me, it really had no impact on me whatsoever.I didn't, I really, really didn't give a shit and I still don't give a shit at all.
Maybe it's an Irish thing, we're kind of, we come from warriors, we have a lot of strength and I'm so lucky that I come from such a supportive family that I
I was taught from my soil, my family, that I could actually do whatever I wanted because they knew me.
They knew that since I was a child I was either drawing or I was putting on a show or I was doing something and I was really, really applying myself and they knew that I mightn't have been academically smart in school but I had value in a whole different area and they saw that and they really appreciated that.
And they also knew that I was my own person and it was very, very evident.As I said, I'm a Leo but I I've always been independent.I've always been my own person.I've never conformed.I fought like my poor parents.
Like they really, I fought them all the way.It was such, it was so tough for them I'm sure.I'm sure because they told me.But yeah I never, I've never had a point in my career where I'm like oh my god this is not gonna work.
I need to do something else.I've never, that thought has never crossed my mind even for a millisecond.Because to me there's no
I've never put myself in a position where it's like I do this thing and if I don't get this thing then my worth is shattered.I've never put that pressure on myself.
For me it's like, oh I'm gonna try hair, oh I can do hair, oh that means I'm in an all-female environment so I feel like I'm safe and I don't have to pretend to be someone or something else. Oh I can travel.Oh that's amazing.
I can do what I love to do and I can travel.Oh I love fashion.Let me try and get in and do a million test shoots for free.I don't care because this is so much fun and I didn't know that this could be a job and I don't care if I'm not getting paid.
It's never been a thing where. Oh I have to do this and if this doesn't work out then everything being a linchpin on my own personal success or journey.There's been times where I'm like wow doing this really.I've been doing hair for 23 years now.
didn't make any money, like pretty much any money until the past couple of years, really.
And there was times where I'm like, oh, this sucks, like being hungry for a couple of days, like not having eaten in a couple of days sucks, being in like living situations that don't feel safe, whether that's an internal or an external thing, like so many different sacrifices that I've had to make in order to build the house that I want to live in, metaphorically speaking.
But there was never anything hinging on my journey.I was busy living it.I'm just happy to be here, in general.
OK.So this power within yourself, Andrew, this is so valuable.And I know that you're very involved in the Trans Wellness Center in LA.
So I'm sure through that programming, this energy and confidence and internal power can play a really pivotal role in helping people in that community.
I would say that it's the exact opposite.I think I'm more inspired by the community that I hope to support.The trans community and gender non-conforming community are the most inspiring communities that I can imagine because they
are the most marginalized and still show up to the world vibrant and flourishing like a beautiful flower.
It's my honor to acknowledge and love and hope to support the trans and gender non-conforming community and bear witness to the strongest, most resilient people on earth compared to the people that I have met along the way in the Trans Wellness Center here in LA, the LGBT Center in LA, New York.
London, my journey was a piece of cake.So there is nothing that I could say to a member of the trans community that is sitting across from me in a room that they could not, I'm not the wise one there.
So it's absolutely my privilege and pleasure to work and to learn from and be inspired by the trans community.
Let's talk about this theme that we have, artistry, right?This is the last episode of our artistry theme.And there's so many incredibly beautiful things about being an artist, right?
Like you're super creative, you're around people who value you for your creativity, right?They look to you to be inspired.But there's like the life of an artist, the way that you have to live
It is sometimes really hard like you might not know where you're working tomorrow until tonight, right?
Or you might have to miss friends weddings because of a job, you know somewhere else in the world You mentioned you can't have a dog because you're always traveling So there's a lot of people in the comments now who want to know more about like working with celebrities and how did you get there?
they might only be seeing the shiny side of that.But you know, if you can be a little bit real with us about like, what is life like as a working artist with these very high profile clients who trust you?
How real do you want to get?
As real as you want to get with us.
Well, I'll start with how grateful I am.I'm so grateful that I have had the opportunity to do what I have been able to do.
I know that not everybody would be able to have the trajectory that I am based on so many inconsequential parts of their identity.So I'll say that first and foremost.
The world around us and many people in the comments see a version of life as an artist, right?They get to see the shiny magazine covers, right?They get to see you walking off of a private jet on your Instagram.
But there's a positive, but there's also challenges in that, right?And how it affects your personal life.
It's a lifestyle, it's a very specific lifestyle.I have had to sacrifice a lot.I'm so grateful for what I have.But when you are your job, your physical presence is your career, that's a lot of pressure.That's a lot of pressure for yourself.
I think of my mom as a single parent, it was the same for her.She had two kids and three jobs and she couldn't be sick.I'm not sacrificing anything more.I've never sacrificed anything more than my mother as a single parent.
Amanda was also very inspired by her and take that approach of not complaining about things.These are choices and you kind of have to see things through.But yeah, it is difficult.I don't get to see friends very often.
A lot of people, I luckily have a group of people in my life, various people who accept this about my life that I might be gone for two months or they mightn't hear from me or I might be too tired to communicate because
It does drain me to communicate after working for 16 hours in a row or 20 days without a day off or whatever it may be.But yeah, you have to sacrifice a lot.
For instance, I found out that my father had passed as I was walking into a job with a celebrity.This was about two years ago.And I found out and I had to literally zip it inside and go to work immediately. hey, how are you?
It's like, well, I broke a nail.So my life is over and blah, blah, blah.And I'm like, I just found out my dad died.So, F you.Internally, but I'm like, oh my God, well, you know what?Blah, blah, blah's here.We'll get you, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And just some people having their normal life and me having to like, go, okay, well, I, it's just a no, I've just been trained that like, no matter what happens, you show up for work.
My mom, when I was going to leave school at 13, which is something that I can't even imagine allowing in my childhood, leave school at 13, but it made sense at the time.Believe me, just trust me.She asked me to do two things.
One was to get to the top of my field to really apply myself, and the other was, because I'd been taking so much time off school because I hated it so much, to never take a sick day.To never ever take a sick day.
And it's been 23 years and I've only taken two sick days ever in my whole entire life.And that's when I had the most severe food poisoning, like
Linda Blair, you don't want to know and yeah, there's you there's just things that that I have to accept but like that is Once once I learned like it was a difficult concept for me and certain situations Felt really difficult and they really felt like difficult sacrifices But once I learned that everything in life is it's an if you think about things in really polar opposites It's always gonna feel like a like a pull and a push but once you realize that it's not a straight road
road.It's nothing that you can quantify on a chart.You have to be able to go, okay, this thing is difficult, but I have to deal with it.This thing is amazing, but don't like lose your mind.
Like it's, it's something that any, I think a lot of people can empathize with because like as a woman at work, there's so much that you have to like silently go through in the context of being in a workspace with men or being, or being organized by men who don't understand how to
which is Muslim, understand how to support women in most ways.It's something that I accept and I don't really complain about because this was my choice and it's been hard but I'm proud of how resilient I have been able to be.
I'm proud of how resilient my mother is.
has been able to show me that she was and I was able to go okay I can do it I have it in me it's literally in my DNA that I can I can deal with it I can show up I can be kind while I'm doing it I can always I'm sometimes like it it depends on if it's before coffee or after coffee
Yeah, it's not all red carpets.And even when it is, that's hard work.It's not.Being on a red carpet is like, oh my god, what if someone goes to hug someone and a hair thing comes out?There's a million and one things.
The things that other people think are fun are actually not even.They're the unfunnest part.The photo shoots are like, oh my god, let this end so I can go home and watch me. Murder documentary you know.
Andrew the reason i ask this question is because you know i think everyone thinks the grass is greener on the other side but you know for those stylists or makeup artists who like maybe they're in their own community and they're getting well known for like doing bridal hair bridal makeup and they're looking at you being like why am i not working on celebrities like.
Have a great living and enjoy doing local bridal hair and makeup.Then you can have your dog and you can go to your friend's wedding.
I think this idea of building gratitude in your career, no matter what shape it's taking, is really, really important. So you have gratitude for all the experiences that you have, despite some of the challenges.
And I hope that after this conversation, people who are not in the celebrity world, but they're making a name for themselves locally, and they have a good reputation, and they're building clientele, That they can embrace that as success as well.
I think that it's really important to be able to check in with yourself and ask yourself, what do I really want from life?
And if that is family, if that is security, if that is being in close proximity to your family, if it is being able to have a dog, a community or whatever. then go okay well then maybe that's just not for me and it's hard as fuck anyway.
Like to me, I look at my little sister, I had one day to spend in Ireland on my way back from Milan for fashion week and I got to meet my niece for one day who is just seven weeks old and I got to see my sister, her husband, their home, my nephew Luke who is my favorite human being.
on the planet.And I'm like, I want this, I want a husband, I want kids, and I want to be able to do that.And I have to remember, okay, but then you'd be sacrificing all of the other joyous things that you have in your life.
And I'm like, okay, maybe everything is a journey.And then at some point, what I've learned is that like, when you know where you want to go, you can actually consciously get there and then make a new choice.
And I think for me, I'm not done with this point, almost like Do I have a family now or do I do the career thing now?We do have to make those tough decisions.
But what you really want out of life is to be able to be creative, to be able to be grounded, to be able to have a circle of friends.Celebrity hair is not for you. And that's for sure.But that's okay.
To me success is like money, is like a new handbag, it's like whatever.It's something that entertains you for a minute and sometimes you flash it out and you feel great.But fundamentally you have to go to bed every night.
Are you happy with your life or not?And everything is a sacrifice.It's just what works for you.And really being honest with yourself about that.Is this about approval?
Is this about people going, oh, you're an amazing hairdresser because you work with blah, blah, blah.If they're the reasons, just know how hollow that is.You only get one life.
And to really focus on the things that actually bring you joy, they're the things that need to be your navigation posts to move forward.
I love the focus on joy.That's how I move through the world as an entrepreneur.Is this bringing me joy?Is this making me happy?Even when it's really hard, can I find joy in this?How can I find joy in this?
Using that as a way to... It's like the yellow brick road.I'm just following the joy. And I think it's really valuable also to say to ourselves that we have to give ourselves permission to change our mind, right?
Like you're doing this now and you might change your mind in two years or five years or ten years and you have to be able to give yourself permission to give yourself the room to change.
So important.It's sometimes, I think of it like a relationship.Sometimes you know that the relationship isn't working and then you're like, why did I spend another four years trying to get out of the relationship?
It's because we all set up these ideas in our mind and it's so hard for us to divorce ourselves from those.
Almost commitments that we make to ourselves and it feels like you were turning your back on yourself sometimes but to me I try to think of it as an idea or a hope a dream a relationship a job or whatever That can just be casting out a net or that can just be the the fuel that you need to get to the next place And that's why I mentioned checking in with yourself and I have to do it all the time I've taken so many 180s in my life or felt like I'm going down a road and I'm like
Why am i not happy i'm not happy again today this is a couple of days in a row like what's what's not working i really need to check in with myself and take that time to check in with myself and i've had so many points in my life where i've had to give up the ghost of some kind of childhood dream or like.
When someone says, oh, it's my dream since I was 11, I'm like, yeah, but you knew yourself the least when you were 11.
What about your dream for exactly today that will bring you the joy that you need today as an adult who knows yourself the best that you've ever known yourself?
You don't have to, not everything is the way that you imagine it and you have to be able to let that go.
It's the same in a relationship, you want someone to be a certain thing for you, you want a certain situation to be a certain way, you have to be able to go that you can't control life like that unfortunately, you have to be able to roll with it and you have to fundamentally make sure that you are on the road to your own happiness, your own personal happiness for you because no one else can do that for you but yourself.
Yeah, I love that.We'll have to close out this part of the conversation.But I feel like part of this is like going of like, what is the ego telling me to do?Right?
Like, all those people from hometown, like if I if I if I break away from the celebrity thing, what are they gonna think?Who cares?Right?Like, like, but it's hard.It's scary to let go of our ego.But it gets in our way a lot.
So if we listen to our ego, we're going down the wrong path.
Someone asked me what's the best piece of advice to get to where you want to go.My career is a thing.
I said, you know what, if you want any success in your life, and to me success is personal success, whatever you think is successful, I said get a therapist.Getting a therapist, me starting therapy was the number one reason
why my life is working for me the way it is right now and my happiness levels.
Because I learned, because so many of us and especially each generation backwards are not taught how to allow the world to work for you instead of playing the pageant or whatever.I talk forever so let's
This was amazing.This wraps up our interview segment, Andrew, and I really am grateful for your honesty and your wisdom.I think we have time for like one or two questions.Okay.So Lou, Lou wants to know where was the salon you first worked in?
Was it in Ballantyre or Dundrum?
Um, that's funny.Um, it was in Dundrum.I won't say where it was, but, uh, it was, it was, uh, we would call it like a granny salon.Um, it's like a, like where 90% of the clients were over the age of 70.It was usually roller sets, perms.
We have this thing in Ireland called blue rinses.Like sometimes for some reason, the grannies have blue hair and pink hair and purple hair.
We don't know why but they they go they go punk at 70 for some reason in Ireland or used to But it was a it was a local salon in Dundrum.
All right, so Gina wants to know can you buy Andrew Fitzsimmons products in Northern Ireland?
Um, yes, you can We are in boots in the United Kingdom.So boots Dakota UK I think
OK, last question.I'm going to give you only three words to answer this question with.What is your favorite thing in three words about your career?Three words.
Three words.I don't know if I can do three words.
Give me one.Start with one.
One word.What comes to mind?One word.Give me the first word.Favorite thing.
Lucky.Gratitude.Journey.You got it!Sacrifice.Love.Happiness.Women.Support.Hair.Hairspray.Fumes.Photoshoots.No sleep.Another plane.Bus.No sleep.Another club.Another club.That's the vibe.
Love it.Thank you.That's music.That was awesome.Thank you so much, Andrew.This is our 269th episode.I'm so glad we could do this together.
I'm glad I could be your 69th.
And for our listeners, thank you for joining us.If you'd like this episode, please rate and review.Let us know what you think.
And as always, make sure you're following us on your favorite podcast platform and Instagram to stay up to date on our episodes and all the fun we have along the way.Andrew, I'm grateful to you.Thank you.
So much.Bye.Thank you for your time.Bye-bye.
Thanks for listening to Where Brains Meet Beauty with Jodi Katz.Tune in again for more authentic conversations with beauty leaders.
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