Welcome to Disruptive Successor, a show for next generation leaders in family businesses and entrepreneurs who want to disrupt the status quo and take their existing business to a whole new level.
We all know that what got us here isn't going to get us there.This show will provide inspiration, advice and resources to help you create massive impact.
This podcast is sponsored by myself, Jonathan Goldhill, and my company, The Goldhill Group, where we provide coaching for growing companies.
I'm Jonathan Goldhill, and my purpose is simple, to guide entrepreneurial leaders in family businesses towards more freedom and fulfillment.
I want entrepreneurs to get clarity around the changes that will make them and their businesses more successful so they can experience the same freedom I've enjoyed in my life.
Our proven practices challenge business owners to think differently about their business and how they're running it, and quite literally become game changers in our clients' companies.
Learn more at thegoldhillgroup.com website, where you can schedule your free strategy session.Hi, it's Jonathan Goldhill, and welcome back to another episode of the Disruptive Successor Show.
My guest today is a licensed psychologist and performance coach, and was fortunate to spend over a decade working with business professionals and elite athletes, including those of the Major League Baseball.
She authored the study, The Mental Skills and Characteristics Related to a Major League Baseball Player's Performance. Through her journey, she's uncovered the crucial mental skills and characteristics that set top performers apart from the rest.
Dr. Kimberly Wagner is my guest and today we'll discuss her research findings on peak performance and some of the characteristics of high achieving individuals.Dr. Wagner, may I call you that or should I call you Kim?Kimberly, what do you prefer?
Yeah, Dr. Wagner's great, thank you.
Fantastic.So welcome to the show today.Let's talk about, first of all, your path to doing all this.How did you get into this work?
So growing up, I was an athlete.And then when I got into graduate school, my doctorate program, I needed to pick an area of research and an area that I wanted to become an expert in.
And at the time, one of the faculty members at my school was working with the local professional teams here in San Diego.And so I had an opportunity to learn about peak performance and sports psychology with him.
And so him and I came up with a research topic.And that was investigating the mental skills and characteristics that enhance performance in Major League Baseball players.So I interviewed Major League Baseball players, I got to collect data from them.
And from their interviews, I put together major themes and minor themes that are specifically characteristics and skills that they utilize in their performance to help last their career longer than the two to three average, which is what is normal in major league baseball.
Wow.And so tell us about some of the findings.What are some of those mental skills and characteristics?
What I think you're good about to tell us is that these same mental skills and characteristics transfer over to anyone who's an elite performer in the business world, in a profession, in a career, in whatever.So tell us what you found.
Yeah, absolutely.They do transfer over.And I had some interesting results from my research.So some of the characteristics were, of course, things like mental toughness.That's a common theme in sports psychology literature.
Also things like work ethic, having a good support system. Probably the number one thing being confidence.
I remember specifically one of the participants in my research said, if you're not confident in yourself, then no one else will be confident in you.Another characteristic was also maintaining a positive attitude.
So in sports, but in life in general, a lot of things are outside of your control.But if you can maintain a positive attitude, even when things get tough, they find that that really helped to improve their performance.
In terms of mental skills, particularly in baseball, dealing with failure was a big one because as you know, if you are hitting and you strike out seven out of 10 times and only get a hit three out of 10 times, you're still considered to be very successful.
So with that high failure rate, these players have to find ways to be resilient and to come back from those failures and not let it bring down their self-confidence.
Social skills were important, being able to talk to people, being able to get along with your teammates, focus, concentration.Baseball is a sport where you can't be hyper-focused the whole game.You have to learn how to go in and out of focus.
So it was really important that they had the skill set to be able to do that. Managing stress as in life and everywhere, there's stress.
So you have to have effective stress management skills and techniques that you can utilize probably on a daily basis.Also their willingness and ability to learn.
So if they were open to learning and willing to learn, maybe trying to learn outside of what was already being offered for them, that was a really important skill that enhanced their performance. expectations and managing expectations.
I see so many people that place such high expectations on themselves.It's not even necessarily other people putting high expectations on them.They are placing them on themselves.And so you have to be able to manage your expectations.
You want to set them high enough so that you can work towards that, but you also don't want to set them too high so that if you fall short of those expectations, again, it negatively affects your self-confidence.
there's a lot of pressure that they have to deal with.So, you know, dealing with the daily pressures and being on a global scale.
These are really interesting findings and they all make sense.What doesn't make sense is that I don't think these things are being talked about enough in the workplace, in corporations, in leadership positions.
And it explains to me why people who are coming out of the military and coming out of sports who have mastered these disciplines can be so successful in the business world.It's just these the the terms that you're using just they're so
obvious, if I might say, and yet so not common, right?Absolutely.
I mean, mindset is something that I've been working with clients on and coaching them in and working specifically with what is the mindset of a business owner versus a craftsman sort of entrepreneur who's not really an entrepreneur but is a small business owner
And so mindset is an obvious one, but these other things you talked about, like confidence was one that just stuck out.And where does confidence come from?
As a licensed psychologist, this is something I'm sure that you talk to your patients or clients about.And sometimes we might blame our lack of confidence on our heritage, our lineage, our parents.
Sometimes it's just that we didn't have a good role model, a good teacher.So like, take any of these things, maybe confidence in particular.How do you start to develop and nurture these in athletes, in business professionals, family business owners?
What are some of your thoughts on the playbook here?
Yeah, so probably confidence more than any other skill is the most important in terms of performance.And the good news is, is that even if a person doesn't already have it, it can be learned.
And so kind of like you were saying, early developmental life experiences, like your parents or coaches you had, or teachers that you had, they can help to instill confidence in you by giving you
positive reinforcement, maybe, you know, you being autonomous and being successful in autonomy.But, you know, not everybody gets that.And so they get to adulthood, and then there's all these expectations for them to be successful in life.
But if you don't have the confidence to be able to do that, that may be really challenging for you. And so the main thing that I work on with people in helping them to develop self-confidence is using positive self-talk.
If you pay attention to your self-talk, which most people don't, you will find that it is probably more negative than it is positive.You will also probably find that it's irrational and it's not rational.
So, you know, this is just basic CBT cognitive behavioral therapy is I have people write down their thoughts, and then I kind of look at them with them and I say, okay, is this rational or is this irrational?
And if it's irrational, we come up with a more rational thought.And then of course, if it's negative, we help them come up with more positive thoughts.And I really just help them to change their internal dialogue and their self-talk
to instill self-confidence in saying these positive affirmations.The other thing that I would say is important is that confidence can come from two places.It can come externally from other people giving you positive feedback.
And when you're a kid, you're more likely to get that.But as an adult, no one ever really tells you when you're doing a good job, you're more likely getting told that you're not doing a good job.
So in adulthood, it's even more critical that your confidence comes internally from within you because you're not going to get it from outside sources.
So there's a unique thing that happens in family businesses where you have to balance family and business and the two roles or the hats, you know, the owner employee relationship.
It could be a father and a son or a mother and a daughter or some combination thereof.And then you've got also the business relationship where you've got the CEO and maybe the chairperson, or maybe it's the CEO and now it's the exiting parent.
And these lines between personal and professional roles and the relationships can get blurry. and this can lead to conflict.
And so confidence is just an interesting skill to develop because part of the handoff that happens between one generation and the next is the older generation has to feel confident that their child can run the business in a way that will protect
the older generation's wealth, you know, and because maybe they've got a lot of money invested in the business and they're letting the child run with it.
And the younger generation also has to have confidence, enough confidence that they can impress the older generation that, hey, I can take over, I can run this business.And what happens sometimes is there's a little bit of a
I mean, sometimes there might be a competition a little bit. between who's more confident, who's more right.And these family dynamics can interfere with business decisions.
So obviously establishing clear boundaries and obviously putting in professional, like corporate best practices can help mitigate these.But I think there are some other things from this toolkit that you discovered in your book
that can come to play here.So I was wondering if you could comment on what you think are some of these other things that surround the confidence, like expectations.So what are your thoughts on this?
Yeah, so I've worked with a lot of business owners that are family run businesses.And it does add a layer of unique challenges when it is a family business.Expectations is certainly one of them.They can sometimes go either way.
Sometimes the expectations for the next generation are really high. And that person or that individual doesn't feel like they can meet those expectations, because maybe their successor was just so successful.
And then sometimes they'll kind of go in the opposite direction of maybe not wanting to work hard or maybe not, you know, wanting to run the business the way that their parents ran it.So definitely expectations, self-confidence.
Again, sometimes a person could be very self-confident because they've seen the person running it ahead of them and being successful in that role and learning from them and modeling after them.
I have sometimes seen where the parent or the person who's ahead of the company and then the successor coming up, sometimes they don't want them to be as successful as they were because they don't want somebody to supersede their success.
So it can really go a lot of different directions.And that's a part of what I love what I do is that every situation is unique and there's always a lot to talk about and a lot to learn.
There's no formula here, right?It's like no two people and the story that they tell themselves or make up about the way things are, are the same.Everything is pretty unique.
Yeah.All right.So let's talk about, let's get back to some of the over, you know, mental blocks that you helped to uncover.Now you, you, this, all this research inspired you to create a course that you're doing online called Believe It, Achieve It.
Yeah.So the online course, Yeah, it's an online course.
And what it does is it combines my research that I did with peak performance and major league baseball players, and also the work that I've done in my private practice that I've had for over a decade.
And so it's a series of short videos, it's all at your own pace.
The videos are anywhere from about three minutes to, I think the longest one is nine minutes, but they each have a different lesson and teach you a different skill or skills within that lesson.
And then there's also worksheets that go along with each lesson so that you're doing active learning, not just passive learning.
And what are some of the lessons that you're teaching in this course?
So some of them are communication, how to be a better communicator, because that's often another skill that growing up people are not taught how to do effectively.
So unless you have really good role models on how to communicate effectively, that's a skill that you're going to have to learn as an adult. Another one is leadership.So leaders can be made, but they're not always born.
And so there are certain leadership styles, but also learning that there is not one leadership style that fits all employee and learning how to adapt to each employee based off of, you know, characteristics or qualities or learning styles that they have.
Sometimes it's about learning your identity.So when you step into a role, say as a business owner, or just kind of moving up from one position to another in the company, it's having your identity go along with you.
Because sometimes people get stuck in these old ideas or thoughts that they have about themselves.So it's, hey, let's get caught up to where I am now and what is my position now?
Also things just like focus, concentration, work-life balance, how to stay calm in stressful situations.Again, how to manage pressure, because there's a lot of pressure that goes along with a high-performing job.
So very similar to the skills that I learned professional athletes use, that I taught the professional athletes that I work with, and that I now teach professionals in all disciplines.
Is there an ideal client or customer for this particular course?
Yeah.So it's really anybody who is wanting to move up in their career.And I will say that the motivation does have to be there because these skills are not going to help you if you're not motivated to want to help yourself and to put these skills
into practice, but really for anybody who's thinking, you know what, like I could do that better, or I could be in that position, or I could run my own company, or anyone that's really wanting to advance in their career, but feeling kind of stuck and knows that there are mental blocks that they need to overcome in order to make it to that next level.
So I find oftentimes stories really inspire people.
And I'm wondering if there's any stories of, of clients that you've worked with, maybe in professional or elite athletes that come to mind that they went through an incredible transformation or a makeover or, or overcame a mental block or,
you know, a winning, develop more of a winning mindset, such that it would inspire our listeners to want to learn more about a course.
Yeah, absolutely.So this was a person who had been working in their industry since they were, you know, around the age of 19 years old.
And they had worked in kind of every position that they could in their industry, except for they had never opened their own business.
And they did find the confidence to be able to open their own business and start running their own company, but they wanted the company to be more successful.
And what was interesting is that on the outside, everybody thought that this person was so confident.And that's the thing is when you look at someone, you don't always know whether or not they're confident.
They can exude confidence, but is that really what they're thinking and feeling on the inside? And so he struggled a little bit because partially his background, he grew up in a lower socioeconomic status.
And so he always had this mentality of, you know, I'm not good enough or I'm never going to be good enough. And even though he was oftentimes the most successful person in the room, he always felt like he was the least successful person in the room.
And so we really had to get over that mental block of, kind of like I talked about before, establishing this new identity of you are not that person anymore.You are now this person.And helping him to build his self-confidence
in meetings, when making business decisions, you know, how to deal with employees, being confident in managing those types of relationships.
So working with him on his confidence and getting him to an identity where he was currently at helped him to be very successful, increase sales significantly, and also saved a lot of money because he was making good, confident decisions.
Great.So how does the Believe It, Achieve It course differ from other personal and professional development courses on the market?
So it's based off of research, which I think is really significant, because I don't know how many other courses out there are really based off of research.And then, you know, of course, just my experience in my practice for over 10 years.
So like we talked about, I have seen everything, I've heard everything, everyone is unique.And so I really try to
bring what I've learned and what I teach people to the course, but I do try to through the worksheets and through the different exercises, personalize it to you and what your strengths are, maybe what your weaknesses are, or what it really is that you're trying to get from the course.
Well, we know that the role that mindset plays in achieving success is really significant.And yet it's also largely unspoken about, I think.And yeah, I don't know why that is.And I don't know how we can teach the younger generation.
Maybe this is something that needs to be done in the schools as a starting place.Maybe One of the things I noticed that we're doing with our younger children, and this has been going on for a while, is children are awarded
They're given awards for their unique abilities or special strengths Recently saw twin two-year-olds come back from camp and one got an award for best dancer and one got an award for like best player and So I think these are the things that probably start out as
that people get as children that really helps to instill confidence in them.And that no harm, no foul for us to do more of this.It's not like we're making up, I mean, we are making up awards for them, but we're trying to help
instill confidence in people and have it be genuine.And I'm sure you believe that that's a key component to developing a strong mindset, success mindset.
Yeah, of course.I mean, one of the questions that I asked the major league baseball players that I interviewed in my research was, at the major league level.So at the elite level, what percentage of performance do you think is mental?
And I got a range that was anywhere from 80 to 90%.So that's huge.I mean, that's only 10 to 20% physical skill.
And so when you think about it, when you get to these elite levels, what does make the difference between someone who is very successful and maybe someone who is just moderately successful really is their mental game and their mental skills.
And it's interesting because sometimes people don't even realize how important the mental part plays in their performance.
And even just teaching them like positive self-talk and changing their internal dialogue and helping them to build self-confidence, it can make such a significant difference, even just doing a couple of little things.
I don't even think you need to be an elite athlete.This is useful for absolutely anyone.Don't you agree?I mean.
Exactly.So, well, I appreciate you being on the show today and I'm wondering if there's any other practical things, takeaways in the course maybe that you want to talk about that I didn't cover?
Just that once you do complete the course, there is an opportunity to work one-on-one with me.So if you're wanting more than just what you're getting from the course, we can have one-on-one follow-up meetings.
Fantastic.So they want to find out more information about the course, they can go to drkimwagner.com. And is there a special code for our listeners, or we put that in the show notes?You tell me.
Yeah, we can put that in the show notes, and that will give your listeners a discount off the price of the course.
Fantastic.Well, I wish you great success and continue to develop success and winning mindsets in your clients and in those that you touch.I think it's all so important.
This is the work that folks like you and myself are doing that can really make a difference and make for a more positive world.So whether you're a family business
or a business with non-family folks, or you're just in a career and you're looking to elevate your mindset, check out the course at drkimwagner.com and develop a more successful mindset.Thank you.
This podcast is sponsored by myself, Jonathan Goldhill and my company, The Goldhill Group. where we provide coaching for growing companies.
I'm Jonathan Goldhill and my purpose is simple, to guide entrepreneurial leaders in family businesses towards more freedom and fulfillment.
I want entrepreneurs to get clarity around the changes that will make them and their businesses more successful so they can experience the same freedom I've enjoyed in my life.
Our proven practices challenge business owners to think differently about their business and how they're running it and quite literally become game changers in our clients' companies.
Learn more at thegoldhillgroup.com website where you can schedule your free strategy session. Thank you for joining us on the Disruptive Successor podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, review, and share with a friend who would benefit from the message.If you're interested in picking up a copy of my book, Disruptive Successor, go to disruptivesuccessor.com.
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