Hey, everybody, welcome to the book leads, impactful books for life and leadership.I'm your series host and leadership performance coach, Jon Jaramillo.
This podcast series is about getting to the books that have impacted the lives of the people in my network, leaders that I've known, leaders that I've met recently, all throughout the pandemic, before.
So these are great leads to get to those books that have impacted the most, provided the most value for them in their life, business, their work, their entrepreneurial journey, whatever it may be.
And in this series, I cover three categories of books.The first category being a book they're sharing with me I haven't read.Second category is a book that we both read, whether specifically for this series or in a previous life before the podcast.
And then the third category is when I have an author and or publisher on to discuss the book, what they're trying to get in there and out to the masses, just so you can get a sense for who they are and the tone that they want to set and the messaging that they have.
In this particular episode, my guest is Rebecca Gebhardt.And Rebecca is a bestselling author, former top 1% sales leader.
And with over 20 years of experience leading sales teams that have generated over $50 million in revenue, Rebecca specializes in guiding emerging sales leaders through the transition from sales leaders board to leadership, while also helping corporate sales leadership teams strengthen their leadership pipelines.
She's Colby and Leadership Circle Assessment Certified.And Rebecca had reached out after hearing about the series.Obviously, well, not so obvious.I haven't mentioned it, but we're here to discuss her book.So I learned a little bit about her.
We went back and forth, learned about each other.And again, she's one of those people that I think people should know about, a book that I think people should look into.
And again, aside from the book aspect of this series, I love getting into that conversation about what's driven someone to where they are today.So here she is today with me.Rebecca, thank you so much for joining me.
Great intro, John.Thank you so much.I'm excited to converse with you here today.
And when it comes to you, Rebecca, I read the bio, but can you give me some insight into your day-to-day work now, what that looks like, what kind of services you provide, just so I and my audience can get a sense of who you are, what you're up to, and what you bring to the table when we dive into your book?
Yeah.I love working with people who are in transitions to become who they need to be.And that space I play in is within the sales realm.And so the people, the leaders, the emerging leaders, those are the people I work with that are high performers,
who are looking to get into sales leadership, looking to continue to rise up the ranks at their sales organization.I do work with some companies where we do leadership development in general.
But for the most part, the books I write, the newsletters I send out, the content I pump out and help with is along that lines.And so I partner with visionary leadership teams at organizations who
want to make sure that they are not just setting up sales leaders so they can get more revenue, you know, in the door, which is important, but that they're actually helping people become better versions of themselves, because better people are better leaders.
And that's kind of the people I resonate with, the companies that I help.And it's kind of been a process to get here.But that's where I like to play and work.
I like that you say it's taken a process to get here.I like processes.I love that, you know, what goes into baking the cake, what goes into building someone up to where they are.
And I love the idea of, okay, there's work to get better sales out of someone to help them create, design those processes to get those better sales figures.Obviously you need to go in concern of the business to keep employing people.
But at the same time I love the fact that you talk about not just being an effective sales leader but an effective person.
Because I've worked in, and I've worked on so many organizations that they have somebody at a certain managerial level that's good at their job.And they say, OK, this person produces.Obviously, that's the person for the leadership position.
They produce.And then, and then they move up a level, and it's just chaos.It's bedlam.It's disorganized.That just because they were good with the technical aspect of the work,
the policy aspect of the work doesn't mean they're going to be able to be a multiplier themselves and create those kind of leaders as they're a leader themselves.They're not going to be able to influence or inspire anybody else.
So I love that you make sure to distinguish that just because you're a performer at a certain level, there's still that growth that you have to, that journey that you have to continue on.
Yep, that's the status quo that I am up against every single day.It's not that the best individual contributor, the best engineer, the best salesperson makes a terrible leader.That's not the case.But the assumption that that's all it takes
to then succeed in a completely different role is incomplete.And so without that extra training, without that extra thought process, the development, they get very frustrated.
And we set up very successful people to fail when we don't equip them with the skills needed in this next transition.And it's not complicated stuff.It just takes purpose, it takes focus, it takes guidance to get there.
Yeah, just acknowledgment.And that's, that's the problem is, it really doesn't take that much.If you have good leaders in your organization, just even mentoring as a starting point would work.
But I think they, they believe because the success has, has been achieved at Level A, then they're ripe for Level B, and they'll pull it off. Now, Rebecca, what kind of, what kind of services do you operate in?Is it group?Is it one-on-one?
What, what else is in that mixed bag of what you can provide for your clients?
That's a good question.I no longer do one-on-one coaching.When I started my consulting company in 2018, that's what I did.And it's just a not scalable way for the business to work.And so we work with leadership teams.
So the smallest sales leadership team we would work with is 5 sales leaders.So I get that question all the time, like, what, what, what industry are you in?Or what size company?But sales depends.You can't give a revenue number, right?
It just, it depends on the structure of the company.And so that's why I say a minimum of 5 leaders.Most of the time, we're working with organizations with 10 to 30 leaders.
that are going through our programs, either the Leaderboard Leadership Accelerator that we have, the Rise Up the Ranks program, or we're customizing.We are working and collaborating with the people inside the organization who know it really well.
who could maybe do leadership development, but don't have the bandwidth, or may, they don't know instructional design or don't know how to actually get a good program to produce the behaviors and, you know, the, the implementation that they need.
So there's a few different ways we do that, but the end game is always the same.It's to help recruit better people, retain people, increase revenue.So those three R's are our focus.
We've talked a lot about sales.It was in your bio.That's the world you come from, right?And then you referenced sales versus, I think you had referenced an engineer.
So what does that look like when you're working with one side and the other where it's like sales, where the person has to go out and produce?And engineers obviously have to go out and produce and get work.
Is that the level of the engineering game that you're talking about is bringing in business?
Yeah, I use that as an example.We don't work with any engineers.But yeah, it's sort of like the, when we work with leadership development in general, that's a different program, because there's, you know, different things there.But
this, this first leap into leadership.So we mainly are in sales, but a lot of the concepts are similar, or someone is coming from engineering, or they're coming from manufacturing and, and, and, or they're
They're the receptionist who's doing a great job.It could be any individual contributor.
A lot of the concepts that I write about in the leaderboard of leadership, it could be anyone in any sort of leadership general could take that and go, okay, this is what this means for my role.We just chose to niche with the sales leadership side.
So I don't work with any engineers per se.Yeah.
Yeah, no, you mentioned it wasn't like a gotcha moment, because I believe I've read sales books, I've interviewed people on here that come from sales.
And I believe there are a lot of aspects, tools and sales that work, like you said, no matter the industry.So it was just a deeper curiosity, but I completely believe that these kind of skills, these kind of focuses are transferable to other areas.
Now, Rebecca, when it comes to you, and before we dive into your book, can you give me a sense of where you started and what your journey has been like?
I'm always curious what someone's first couple steps into their workforce or into their education were like and what that path looked like to now.
Yes, um, this is something I've been doing a lot of reflection on because we bring, we bring our past, we bring the stories we've told ourselves into our current situation, right?And we're all very complicated people leading
people who are complicated.And the story of how you get to where you are gives a lot of clues into that.So I got my start in sales when I was a freshman at Marquette University.I have a human resource degree from there.
But I'm the middle of seven children and I had to pay my own way through school.All of us had to pay our own way through school.
And I was sitting in, I forget what class it was, but it was this big, you know, freshman class, second semester of freshman year.Probably, I think it was a psychology class.We had to take all these prereqs for a liberal arts degree.
And the little form said, you know, summer work, do you want to make $7,000?And this was in 2000. I went, $7,000 is a lot of money.Not realizing it was straight commission.It was door-to-door sales, 80 hours a week, all that stuff.
But the more I heard about that opportunity to get out of, I grew up in a really small town in Wisconsin, 1,200 people.If I didn't do that job, I'd go back to Green Bay and work in the paper mill, which I had done the year before.
And I didn't want to do that.I wanted to do a little exploring.And I didn't know anything about sales, but I knew how to work hard.And that's what they told me.They said, if you work hard, if you study, if you're coachable, you'll be fine.
And I was terrible.I was really, really bad. But I went to Knoxville, Tennessee, and I sold books, door to door, educational books, 80 hours a week for 13 weeks and delivered all the books and came back with a check for $4,000.
So I made about $7,000, took home $4,000. And really felt connected to this, if I can work hard, I have control over my destiny, I have control over my income, and that felt very empowering to me.
And so then I got into leadership, and I share some of those stories in the book of just Just the journey and the mistakes that we can make and the things that we end up doing right.But that's what I did.
And I ended up recruiting college students to that job a few years after graduating from college.And then I went to work with a sister company. which was insurance sales.And I did the same thing.
I recruited, I sold door-to-door insurance, business-to-business, recruited agents around the country, and I did that for nine years.And several things happened.I burnt out.I started having kids.Things kind of, you know, collided.
And I retired from that when I was 33 years old in 2014.So over about 10 years ago, retired.And I say retired because I still get a paycheck from them.They had a thing of lifetime residual income.
So on all the sales I made and all the sales my teammate, I still get a check in the middle of every month.It just pops up in my bank account, which is fun.From there, I spent about four years.
I had the COVID crisis kind of thing when I was 33, before COVID.And I started asking myself, like I have different personalities.
I didn't even flinch when you said that.Okay.
Yeah.Myself, me, myself, and I. But sort of asking some of the questions that a lot of people ask today of, what should I really be doing?Where are my talents?What's my purpose?How can I give back?And so that's when I launched my consulting company.
And my initial purpose was I'm going to work with female entrepreneurs that don't know how to do sales.Right.And then it kind of morphed into sales coaching.
Covid happened, got a huge influx of sales leadership clients, because when things get bad, leadership needs to rise up.Right.You kind of expose what has worked and not worked when crises show up.And so That's what I started to do.
Everyone, and I mean everyone, had similar questions.I was having the same conversation.So then I started doing group coaching.I put a group program together called Leaderboard to Leadership.And that morphed into corporate clients.
And so that's kind of the evolution.And now we are scaling, you know, and so it's, I think I have a really good picture of what I want in life with the business for serving clients.But it's sort of unraveling.
So it's not unraveling in a good way, right?It's revealing itself.
It's like unfurling itself.
Okay.Yeah.So, so that the entire story you just gave, that's what you, that's how you, what you refer to as the process.Because sometimes it's just never pretty, like, you don't know where you're going to end up.It's not, I'm going to graduate.
Very rarely is it, I'm going to graduate with this degree.Then that means I go into this field, which means I ascend through this hierarchy to get to this position and that's where I'll retire. So many stories are just, it's almost haphazard.
You know, I'm studying for this, and this crossed my path.So I jumped into that, which led to this.So I love when people says it was a bit of a process to get here, because it's not predictable.
You know, and that's, that's everybody's unique experience.So, Rebecca, when it came for you,
Going into college where did you, how you said liberal arts what made you want to go into that I mean what was your, what was your, the, what, who were the influences or what were the influences in your earlier life that made you kind of pick what you did going into college.
Again, always was like, I'm going to I'm going to I'm a hard worker.I'm going to work really hard.I grew up with a massive chip on my shoulder.I came from, you know, I said a big family.
So there was scarcity and a lot of competition and in a family sort of way, you know.And so I thought how I was going to win in life was to beat other people.It wasn't even about
You know, being my best self, it was about beating everyone else, you know?And so I, as a young, I mean, I still hold school records for track.I was valedictorian.So as I was looking at colleges, I knew I wanted to get out of town.
Like, I knew I wanted to get out of town.And I didn't really know what I wanted to do.I felt a lot of shame and anxiety around that, of someone who looked like she had it all figured out, had no idea.
And I had a younger brother who's still my younger brother, but he's been in the Air Force for 20 some years.He retires next year.They're in Germany right now, kind of finishing his service.He's wanted to be a pilot since he was four years old.
he's known he's wanted to be a pilot.And I have never known what I've wanted to be until I got to college.
But I think that I chose Marquette University in Milwaukee because it was an hour and a half away from home, but it was in the big city of Milwaukee, right?Milwaukee is the biggest city in Wisconsin.And I thought, okay, it's small enough, right?
There's 12,000 people.But I, yeah, I didn't, I didn't actually know if I wanted to, it was a weird, it was a weird, I just ended up there, I ended up there.And then I ended up just showing up to things, right.
And I think that part of the process and what I've had to catch myself with lately, I'm 43.So we got to get to this point where I know what I need to know, right?As consultants, we're typically, giving advice, I've become less curious.
And so now I'm getting more curious again, and having that be a focus.I was just curious.I was open to opportunities.And I think for a lot of people where they find success, because you're right, it's not this single path.But you just get curious.
And when an opportunity shows up, do you take it? Or are you not curious and not take that opportunity?And I think that for the different paths we've all taken, people we grew up with or people we've met.
And then at a certain point, you just go, how did they get over there?How did I get over here?And sometimes I have not been as successful.I'm not saying that I took the better path.
But if you look at paths and differences, it's they took a different opportunity.They decided to show up.And I think that that's something that right now I'm continuing to look at is, Who do I have working with me, for me?
How can I show up and help other people?And when an opportunity comes, can I take it?Can I, can I do the work required?Can I help my clients do the work required?And that's kind of where I'm, I'm sitting.So I wish I had a better answer.
Because I never knew.I, The only time, I remember a woman getting on stage, so when I started doing the book thing, we do a week-long training, and there was a woman's training, right?
Because you kind of got it, you're like, don't go to, because we were knocking on doors, it had to be safety for women, right?Because we were by ourselves all day.But she got on stage and she goes, I used to be a corporate consultant.
And I went, I don't even know what the heck that is, but I want to do that when I'm older.I just sounded so cool.And so now I'm a corporate consultant.So it's kind of like, you know, wave the hair a little bit.Yeah.
So Rebecca, the next question, I think you already answered it, but I want to pose it to you and see if there's anything that you would add to it.Does it make sense from your childhood then that this is what you're doing?
Not that you planned it in your childhood and ended up here, but your personality, Maybe your vices, everything that was you as a child, the way you dreamt, how do you reconcile to where you are now?
Again, I think you answered most of it, but just to kind of give you that direct question, if there's anything you want to add.
Yeah, no, for sure.You know, I would play house with my friends or we would play school.And my parents are both retired teachers.I'm a corporate teacher. Right.
I joke with my parents, we get paid more money than teacher salaries, which they should get paid more money.But I'm doing this teaching job.And I think the competitiveness, it was no surprise that I ended up in sales because sales is competitive.
And if you work hard, you get acknowledged and recognized. But this, absolutely, absolutely.I was always a leader.I was always the one who could be counted to get it done.
I just have done a better job as I've gotten older to do that collaboratively with other people.
What do you consider a direct question?What do you consider your superpower?
Imperfect action. I just move.I, I'm OK with good enough.And not that I turn out a bad product, but last night I had the book launch party for Leaderboard to Leadership.
And I had, I had, it was, it was so great, but several consultants had come up to me at different times and just said, I just respect you just put yourself out there.You just are doing the work. And I don't.
And I mean, when you have a superpower, it's it's not things we see in ourselves when we hear other people say it, we go, yep, that probably is a superpower.And that would be what what it is.I'm I'm in a constant state of movement.
Not that I don't pause and think and reflect and meditate, you know, do all that stuff.But yeah, I just what's what's the next right thing to do?I do it and I figure it out as I go.
And I think that's a, my thoughts, I think that's a combination of the curiosity and the competitiveness.OK, what's next?What can I move on to?What can I make better?What can I improve kind of thing?
I mean, just my, my view on what you've shared so far, right?
Yeah, I've never thought of it that way.But I would say that that's a pretty accurate assessment.Yeah.
And finally, just before we jump into the book, Rebecca, what does leadership mean to you? You've given a lot of great examples of your work and what you want to see in there, but what does it mean to you?
Leadership is really about creating the circumstances for others to win.That's what, that's how I define sales leadership.And it's a transference of hope is what that is.
And so giving people hope, creating the circumstances that they can succeed, not by rescuing them or anything like that, but, and it's just this continual evolution of becoming the person you were meant to be.
Love it. All right, now we can jump into the book.If you can, why don't you introduce the book and how it came to be?
Yeah, so it's Leaderboard to Leadership, and I have a little copy here.And I'm showing it like this because I have a manicure that matches my book.I never have my nails done like that.
So people who watch the video, they can see that if they're listening, that won't make sense.But just trust me.
It's How to Earn and Excel in Your First Sales Leadership Role. Yep.
So the leaderboard to leadership and it, the leaderboard of course, is people think that more of like in golf or something, but most sales organizations have a leaderboard and it's who's ever selling the most is on the top of the leaderboard.
And so typically you go from that leaderboard, you go from sales to leadership.And so the book is about. how to earn your first sales leadership role, it's how to transition into it, and then how to succeed and then continue to rise up the ranks.
And how did it come to be?When did you pull the trigger on it?When did that start kind of percolating in your head to put something together as a book?
So I wrote another book back in 2020 called Beyond the Board. Subtitle, How to Achieve Your Vision Board Goals in a Fulfilling and Sustainable Way.When that book was done, I knew there was another book in me somewhere.
Didn't know what it was going to be.And I released that one on February 29th of 2020, right before COVID.So I didn't get to do any of marketing or speaking to promote that book.But it was a fun first book.
after that process of really understanding the editing process, like this, you don't you don't know, not every book is a grind, but there's parts of it that are a grind.And the editing process was a grind for me.
And I, I didn't know that I was naive going into it.And so I had kind of suffered from a little bit of procrastination for the second one, because I knew what I was going to be getting into. the second time, and I went, I don't know, I don't know.
But I will say that I believe in repurposing content.And so as I had created this Leaderboard of Leadership Accelerator, I went, this would probably be a phenomenal book at some point.And so I got to, I didn't use everything in there, right.
But I was able to kind of put things together. It took about, so there's, you know, years of work in here, probably started five years ago, but the honest to God, like putting it together started about a year and a half ago.
So I had, I wasn't as brave as you, I couldn't commit to a podcast because podcasts are a lot of work.They're a lot of work.
But what I did do is I committed to a LinkedIn Live series called Lessons from the Leaderboard to Leadership, where I interviewed about 20 sales leaders.
And so I was able to take, I was able to repurpose some of their interviews into the content, bring in work that I had been doing with our corporate clients and some of those experiences.
And so the stories in this book are better than the stories in my first book.And they're more tailored to someone who would read this. That was the process.And I had times where I just stopped for a month.
And then I'm like, I just got to get back into it.I had to commit to the discipline of daily writing, of making sure I blocked my schedule off.
something I talk about in this book, but it's about managing our energy and our mental energy and I'm best in the morning.
And so I had to, if I wasn't going to write before 11 o'clock, I just shouldn't write at all because it wasn't going to be any good.And so, but that, yeah, that was the process.
I love that self-understanding where you know where you're going to perform best in the day.And that honesty of, if I didn't get to it by 11, it's like, all right, maybe tomorrow morning.OK, so what does it look like in the book?
What do the chapters look like?What's that journey that you take the reader on?What's that process that you walk them through?
Well, the first part of the book is actually just acknowledging the issue of the status quo on how we promote people into leadership and sharing stories of my early sales leadership journey and the issues that come up and that it's really goes into
the data behind most of the people who would find themselves in this position.And so I, let me actually back up, I share this stat in this book, but I had read a book by Scott Miller called It's, it wasn't It's the Manager.
Everyone Deserves a Great Manager.And he shared in that book, a Harvard Business Review stat, that the average age that someone gets their first leadership promotion is age 30.And the average age they get their first leadership training is age 42.
So there is this big stat glaring off the paper about 12 years of trial and error.And I went, this is such a big problem.I don't want to go all leadership.How can I niche with sales leadership?And so I got curious and started asking questions.
And we did a research survey on I couldn't find any data on on new sales leaders, I couldn't find how so we found out that 80% of sales leaders are given no training once being promoted.And
the more we dug and got curious about it, the more we're like, this is a problem.And so a lot of that, that's what the beginning of the book really is about is, and then people read it go, yeah, yeah, you're right.
This is, why do we just go, this is a terrible problem, but no one's done anything about it.It just kind of like floors me.So that's what that is.Then the book, how many chapters is it?This is a great question.
It's 17 chapters, 16 main chapters, but there's like a parting words and an appendix.And there's, there's like the free resources we have in here.They're on our website as well.But, so that's the beginning.
Then there's a couple chapters on what it, like thinking through, what does success look like?Can you talk to other sales leaders?What does it look like at your company?Evaluating our strengths.
We go into these new roles and we think of, you know, I really had this great leader.I'm going to be like them. And we can't be like them, right?We, we, we, or you go into it thinking, I'm going to play this facade, or I'm going to act like this.
Yeah, just emulate somebody.
Yeah, yeah.And, and we think we're going to get those same results.And so that's not the case.So really taking readers through, do you, do you understand, you asked superpower, but do you understand your strengths?What can you work with?
What can you take with you from sales into sales leadership?And what should remain there? Then it goes into the transitions of that.And something that we do with our clients is we break down most of our training into mindset, behaviors, and skills.
So I had a mentor tell me years ago, if you don't like where you are in any point of your life, with your health, with your relationships, with work, with whatever, you can look to these controllables and do something.
You can change your mindset, how you're thinking. You can change your behaviors.Are you doing enough activities to actually find success?And then the third one are the skill sets.Like, what do you actually need to get better on to find success there?
And so that's what we kind of go through, these transitions.What are the transitions with your mindset?What are the transitions and behaviors?And a thing that gets a lot of new leaders tripped up, especially in sales, is that
there, they will go and they will prove they deserve the promotion by being really good at sales, though, like help close a deal for a team member, or they'll rescue somebody.
It's like, you're not doing your old job, you know, like you're a leader now.And then something that I talk about in here is that For a lot of sales leaders as well, there are producing sales leaders still.
In other industries, you do go from individual contributor to manager.And in sales, you're in this weird middle.So I call this like the forgotten middle child of the sales world.It's like, well, what should I be doing?
And it's like, you need to think that through.So I kind of like lay it out because you can't give blanket advice on that.It really depends. For me, I was a producing sales leader.I was building teams, still selling, doing all of it.
And it's like, how much time should I spend here?What should I be doing?It's like, it's really confusing.So that kind of goes into there.
And then the second part of the book, the majority of the is about what are these things you need to know these skills, these behaviors to be really good. in sales leadership, which could be the same in general leadership.
It's setting expectations, having, having a 90-day plan, right, being a great coach, being really good with your time management and energy management, talking.And then there's a whole section, there's 3 chapters around recruiting.
So it's, it's interviewing, recruiting and onboarding.Because Selling is not recruiting, but sales leaders and leaders in general.
I mean, we see this now, whether it be on LinkedIn or people are creating their brands and these leaders are attracting high performers to work with them because they're like, oh, that's it.People are choosing work.
based on who they want to work with.And the company you keep is more important than the company you work with, or work for, I should say.So have that in there.And then the very last, my editor was like, this sounds really salesy, Rebecca.
I'm like, I know, we should change the title.So there was a But one of the last chapters is the ROI of sales leadership.But I did a case study on, on one of our clients and, and what they were able to do with their organization.
And it was, it was just a shift, right?It was like, it was all this stuff about how to be great in sales leadership.And then it was like, here's how awesome we are.I was like, I'll change the title.
I'll change the title so people kind of know what they're reading there at the end.
So when you, Because the book just came out, but a lot of the ideas in here you've worked with or through in the past, what did it look like when you go into an organization and you work with sales leadership?Generally, are they receptive to it?
Are they locked in their behaviors?What kind of reactions, feedbacks, or aha moments do they have based on that new lens that you share with them as to how to view leadership and sales leadership?
Yeah, it varies.Some are really coachable, and others just cross their arms and are like, Rebecca, what do you know about my business?
What I've learned in working with anyone is I don't come in and say, here's what I know, and here's what you're doing wrong.We start with what they're doing right.
And that becomes and I think that that's really important because everyone's doing things right there.We don't know.You don't know everything.I don't know everything.Right.It's just it's impossible to be a master at everything.
But we start with here's what's going really well.So then I become a partner to collaborate with them to keep excelling instead of fixing what's wrong with them. And that feels very different.
I will say, when I work with organizations, the leaders have to be in the meeting.I've done both where they're not part of the online program, or they're not part of the workshop, or whatever it is.
And when the senior leadership team, or a few members, are in that training, it shows it's important.They're learning as well. everyone else is more receptive to it.So, so we have a process.I, StrengthsFinder is, I'm not certified in that, but my No.
1 strength is Relator.It is impossible for me to work with someone without having an onboarding call, and learning about them.You know, like, I can't do it.So, so that's the process starts individually.
We figure out, I'm not coaching people individually, but I'm figuring out what they want to get from this, what's important to them, what I can, how I should call them out to contribute their strengths to the conversation.And then
a few things that they can tweak and then make them aware of what's there.But that's the process.But not everyone's open to it.And at times in my past, when I was doing really well, I was like, I don't need your advice.
I mean, look at my bank account and look at the scoreboard.You know what I mean?So I think we all kind of go through that.One thing I mentioned in this book, though, is another book by Kevin Wild.
I don't know if he's a doctor or not, but he teaches at the University of Minnesota, and I met him.He's got a coachability book, but he talks about the Coachability in people decreases with the more experience that we have.
And so acknowledging that is totally fine.It's not saying someone in their 60s is not coachable.It's just they're less likely to be coachable, which again is the whole reason that my philosophy of let's train people when they're open and coachable.
Let's get leaders right when they're new or before they're new to set up these great habits.
just to make them aware of no matter how successful you get, if you can still be a student of the game as you're playing the game, you're going to get further ahead than someone else.But there are different challenges.
But honestly, the organizations that have, if they've got a lot of leaders who are standoffish, and I don't, I won't work with them.It's part of our discovery process, because they don't have, they don't have the culture set up for what I do.
And it's not going to work.And I'm not going to waste my time.I don't want them to waste their money, because it's not cheap. It's, it's really a long-term, so it's got to be aligned with the culture.
And there's a couple of hard-nosed, I mean, there's been a few people, it took me like 6 months to make it in.And then they'll go, Oh, yeah, I know.We, we did need this.I didn't think we needed it.We needed it.That, I love proving those things.
But you have your threshold, you have your barometer for, OK, how much resistance am I willing to work with or not?
Rebecca, I'm always curious, in writing this book, did anything evolve in you?You already talked about the editing process and how much you have to kind of bulldoze through that.
But did anything evolve in you the way that you viewed your work, the way that you viewed the subject matter?What changed in you as a result of going through and putting this book out?
Um, such a great question.I was able to actually firm up some things that I, in my programs, right?Like that I'm like, Oh no, this, I actually need to go deeper with.
So technically, but I would say, um, personally, as I was sharing stories of P of situations I've been in, in my past, um, I got very present to how. fortunate I have been.
So I talked before, I grew up with a chip on my shoulder, and I have to consciously reframe how I'm thinking about things.This is like a very candid response.But I will look at, as a female consultant, as a female in a sales world that's mostly men,
And my husband always jokes, he's like, what industry isn't male-dominated?And he wasn't saying that to be sarcastic, but he's like, nursing and teaching.And I was like, you're right.Because we always talk about women in male-dominated fields.
I'm like, they're all male-dominated.But I would be like, oh, well, these guys are supporting each other, or they're hooking each other up on the golf course.I just felt like I was removed from, and I was completely ignoring.
everyone who's who's helped me and who I've been.It was like I was like blind to and I just had this like, oh my gosh, like what am I what am I doing?Like there's so much.And so I got very grateful, really, and more focused.
I stopped like, you know what, because things are hard and there are inequalities and there's things that we're working against, but that's not helpful to me. And I do coach that in people, but I was like, oh my gosh, I was good.
I texted an old mentor of mine, Nancy, and I texted a few page and then I was like weeping.I was like, she just changed my life.You know what I mean?It's like, it's very, I told my husband,
Even this week, I mean, a couple of days before, I mean, the book launched on the September 20th, and I had people texting and congratulating.I was just overwhelmed.I got bouquets of flowers.We have to go to a cemetery and give the flowers.
I mean, we have to put, there's so many in my house.And then last night, and I'm just really overwhelmed.And it's like a, so everyone should write a book, because I know you get to, no.
Oh, absolutely.I believe that. Yeah, I think everybody should I mean if you have even just the slightest curiosity about it, just because I've gotten similar responses to yours where it firms up your beliefs.
It helps you walk through your own life your own career and see things for how they are.I mean, we're so good at putting our heads down and just grinding through life and work that rarely do we really stand back up and look at what we've done.
We'll do that every once in a while when we come across an article about gratitude and meditation and really, you know, just stopping and looking around to see what you have.
But it's, I can imagine, I haven't written a book yet, but I can imagine what it is to really awaken you to what you've done and what you have. you know, we, sometimes, some things we just don't take in properly until we write them out.
And as we write them out, even if it's not specifically the story, we wonder, where's my idea about this coming, coming from, and you trace that cord back to the wall to find out what those experiences really meant.
It's incredible to hear those, those kind of reflections from my authors on the series.
Yeah, it's such a process.And yeah, it is overwhelming.And I don't think we can all prepare for that.But what you're just saying of writing it out, I'm sure you coach people to do their journaling.
But as you write things out, sometimes I'll sit down being ready to, I'm like, here's what I want to write about today.And then something completely different comes out.
We think we know ourselves.
Yeah, yeah.And so that's the same process in a book.It's just kind of like multiplied of what you think you're going to write.
Yeah.No, thank you for sharing about this chip on your shoulder that you've verbalized about.I've thought about that the last couple of years, like certain instances, certain sensations.It's like, where's that coming from?
And realizing what I do have that chip on my shoulder.And it's something you don't hear about too often.So I'm glad you brought it up in terms of you know, this is how I experienced life.This is how I was brought up.This is why I think that way.
I'm trying to do my best to reprogram, reprogram myself so that I'm not operating under that.Because you know what it feels like?It feels like that chip, something's really on your shoulder, holding you down.
So I appreciate you bringing that up, that it's OK for you to feel that way.I think it's great to hear that even a coach needs a coach.You know, even you have to call up your mentor and say, I learned this lesson.
And I don't think it takes away from the coaching you do, the coaching I do, because we keep that separate from who we are.But I think it is a learning journey for ourselves.
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm looking, I'm looking away.I'm finding this quote that's on, I have this for Leadership Development next week.And it's from Carl Jung, and it says, What works for you in the morning of life will work against you in the afternoon.
And so this how we find success, and this is, you know, even something I discussed in the book, having a chip on my shoulder and proving people wrong worked really well for me.
I was really successful, right?I have all I got a closet full of metals and ribbons.And you know what I mean?Like, it's like, but then that doesn't work anymore.
And we don't all have these, and sometimes a new job will be that moment where you go, OK, what's not going to work for me anymore?And that's a process.It's a really deep process, and it's something that I
have kind of unfolded since I got certified in the leadership circle, because that's kind of what we take people through is, tell me about how you opened up this interview.Tell me about your background.
And then people start talking and they go, here's the stories I've had about what I need to do to be successful.And then you realize you just, and it's part of human development.
So it's not, it's something everyone goes, I shouldn't say everyone goes through, but most people who are curious and working on themselves go through. And, but yeah, but it literally, like the chip on the, I literally have back pain all the time.
I go see a chiropractor, I think it's like my writing, you know, my form here as I'm, but I have back pain.I literally, the chip on my shoulder doesn't work anymore.
It could be just that tension in your body.I mean, you know, the body keeps the score and all that kind of stuff.But, and I think it's important to point out, it's similar to different conversations.For example, people pleasing.
where people still do it, they still make sure other people have what they need, but they do it from a different source.So you're still competing, you're still doing all these different things, but it's coming from a different source.
Where before it's like, you even said it yourself, you're like, I was good at my job.I wasn't thinking about other people or authenticity, I was competing.
But then you get to this self reflective stage in life where you realize, okay, I'm still going to do what I was doing.But for a different driver, a different motivation is behind it.
The motivation is the key.You're motivated at a certain point by fulfilling your identity, right?Like being worthy.And it's always dependent on other people, right?It's all these outside things.
Then you're motivated by doing good, by your purpose, by your vision.You know you're worthy, whether or not you achieve this or not.And I go back and forth.I'm not, you know, I'm not perfect. I think just aware of it, though, is a big thing.
And I have felt so much less stress, more success when I'm focused on the purpose and the big picture and really not, I don't want to use the word necessarily thriving, but just looking at things in the right context.
Rebecca, what book has inspired you?Obviously, we're here talking about your book, but if I brought you back for a discussion on a book that stood out the most for you, which book would that be?
OK, so there's a couple of them.I really like Return to Love by Marianne Williamson.And I try to read it once a year.And I find myself in a different situation every time I read it.And I find different things in there.So that's a big one.
Two sales-related books that are just classics that I could read forever is The Greatest Salesman in the World by Ogmandino, which I will persist until I succeed.In the Orient, young bulls are tested.I could quote parts of those chapters.
And then the classic, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.I have it right here.This is actually funny.I'm quoting it.It's so good.And I highly encourage people to read this at different stages in life.Because I read it as an 18-year-old.
um, sorry, the 19 year old.And, and, and I was like, yep, got that and sharpen the saw and, you know, you know, public personal victories, public victories.And then you just go, Whoa, missed it.
Cause I, the operating system I was using wasn't ready for it yet.Right.And I, and the operating system I'm upgrading will be ready for different things.That's a, that's a good one.Yeah.
Yeah, I love that idea.It does happen when you read a book at different stages.It's happened here where I read a book that was covered here like 15 years ago and then finally went back to it for the conversation.
And all the points that were important to me now were different than the points that I marked up 15 years ago.All of them were completely different.That's just how much we evolve. Rebecca, and starting to wrap up, what are you up to these days?
Is there anything that you want to share that I might not have asked about, anything you want to expand on, anything at all?Please, the floor is yours.
Yeah, the only thing I think I would just say is the vision for this book is that it becomes like a cult classic.And typically when you say that, it doesn't become a cult classic.
You just jinxed yourself.
I know, I know.But that the vision is that every sales leader reads it.It's kind of, you know, the book where, oh, you're, you know, like parenting for dummies.If you become a new parent, there's like books for new parents.The go-to's.
Yeah, this is the book. for every emerging sales leader.And that regardless of what programs companies are using for their sales leadership development, it's the complement to every one of them.
And so I created a book club guide that's downloadable on our website. for sales teams that are doing that.I had a sales leader who I used to coach.He bought a ton of them last night for his sales leaders.He was like, this is good.
This is good timing.We're doing our training tomorrow.But that's the goal, and that's the wish, and that people can use this to say, you know what, I'm doing this really well.You know what, I'm not doing that.I didn't realize I needed to do that.
And it just helps elevate because when the leaders are doing what, it always comes down to the manager.It's always the manager.And if you do sales training without sales leadership training, you're wasting all your money and your time.
It just doesn't make sense.And so that's just my vision for this.And I
As I was writing it, I was trying to get very clear on the energy I was bringing to it, trying to honor the stories of other sales leaders that I included in it to convey the work that they've done on themselves and all of that.
And just the legacy that we have that we can make on just one person that we lead, it can make a difference.And so we need to equip ourselves to do that effectively.
And I have time for one more question.I know this one just came out, but in general, where do you think you would want to focus next on writing?
I think I'm going to be pulling things out of this book.I have a LinkedIn newsletter that I do once a month, and that's where I'm going to be probably doing most of my writing.I've got a few online
I've got some things working that I can't quite announce yet, but some different programs to be using that people can access through different distribution platforms.And so be creating that, but it may not be in writing, writing form.
It'll probably be in video form, but that's what I, that's where I see myself spending a lot of my future time.
Awesome.Rebecca, thank you so much for sitting down for this conversation.And again, Rebecca's book is Leaderboard to Leadership, How to Earn and Excel in Your First Sales Leadership Role.I think it was a great conversation.
It's very weird to say, but I love the mention of the chip on the shoulder and just that change in your view from when you were younger to now.I think this is a key focus is, again, because I've had that experience,
bringing a leader that performs really well and just elevating it and thinking that you can just set it and forget it.So I think it's a powerful concept and idea.And I think it will be that cult read that you were talking about.
So congratulations on the book and thank you for being here.
Thank you.I appreciate it.I had a really fun conversation with you.
Same here.And if there's anything that I might've missed in my conversation with Rebecca, anything that I should have asked, please let me know and I'll reach out to her, see what kind of insights, guidance, knowledge, anything I can get back.
In the meantime, thank you for watching.Thank you for listening.And I'll talk to you soon.Take care.Bye.
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