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Check it out at firstlight.com.F-I-R-S-T-L-I-T-E dot com. Phil's already a little annoyed.Tell everybody about what you're annoyed about, Phil.Come on in, Phil.Come on.
Oh, nothing.I, you know, I just, I like to set a schedule throughout the day.You know, I know, I understand you have to prep for the show, but we just got done recording trivia, which was a lot of fun.And we started, we started that right on time.
I just didn't want to repeat of a few days ago when it took us like six hours to record.
You know why I wanted to talk about this Phil?Why?We're in Louisiana.Yeah.This is the most overworked.This is how this is my lead in.
It just came out.This is masterful.This is the most overworked state in the union.
Oh, so you're sympathizing with me, that's what you're getting at here?
Here we are in Louisiana, and most of us are just fishing and messing around, and you're under incredible stress and strain, and it just is surprising to me that here we are in the most overworked state in the union.What does that mean?
I'll tell you what it means.
It's like not surprising that this is happening here for Phil.Yeah, you know how your phone spies on you? Right, okay.
Well, here I am in Louisiana.
It's proven that it doesn't, but go ahead.Well, I can prove it too with this.
Because here we are in Louisiana and I get an email telling you to move to Wyoming because it's one of the least worked states, which prompts me to be, well, who's the worst or the best?In my view, the best.
It'd be like if Wyoming is among the top 10 of least working people, who is holding this country up?That's where my, so I get, I scroll and scroll and scroll to find whose shoulders is the nation riding upon?
Louisiana, hardest working state in the union. And I wanted Phil to talk about his work stress.Experience in Louisiana.
His work stress.I'm currently an honorary Louisiana employee right now, I would say.And I've been working hard.Yes.
As measured by hours worked, this is how we're defining.
And so, yeah.Phil's scheduling anxiety actually is directly relevant there.
Yeah, it's because he's feeling that Louisiana workiness.
And I think this has implications for the reason that you're hearing about this on a show that focuses on hunting, fishing, outdoor pursuits, is because if you like to hunt fish, there might be some little part of you in the back of your head that wishes you weren't working as much.
I am the only person here that has not gone fishing on this fishing trip.So that's another thing I just want to throw out there, but I'm in a much better mood now that we've started rolling.So I want to say thank you.
Phil and I and Corinne were headed to a tiki bar in a bit. And that's contingent on our recordings.
The clock's ticking.You probably only have like 84 minutes left and he's just gonna shut it down.
Louisiana ranks as the most overworked state in the nation with each person working an average of 1,914 hours annually.What's that come out to?Divide that by 52, someone.Ready for this.So I'm thinking in my head was the oil fields. Yeah.
Well, not quite.Oh, no, no.Okay.I'm thinking in my head, it's the oil fields and hear me out.Texas, North Dakota.Oh, so yeah, but it's hard.It's so 36 hours a week, but you're not getting like Christmas and your vacation, your vacation hours.
Texas and North Dakota play second and third working an average of 1,867 and 1,856 hours annually respectively.So Corinne, can you help me out?That was third.
So if you just take Louisiana, hardest working state in the union, they're coming in at 36 hours a week, but of course you have your, your holiday.So I'm already thinking that that, that suggests to me that Americans aren't working hard anymore.
And when we talk about a nation in decline, This could be an area to pursue.Texas and North Dakota, second and third.So North Dakota, what's 18.56 divided by 52?
35.9, so let's say 36, but 37 was like 37 point something.Okay.Off by like an hour or two.
And again, oil fields, right?The study, it's by a personal injury law firm. Are they honest?They're the ones that have the billboards.Put the MOAC on them, you know?
Like, you know when you're like any big city and you get to the edge of the big city or out by the airport, they have all those signs.It's like, there'd be like a lawyer on a Harley.
Need someone tough?In Phoenix, it's a guy named Rafi.
Put Raffy on it.Call Raffy Raffy.Hey, there's a sign outside of Little Rock, Arkansas on the interstate, and it's like, Bill Crockett, attorney at law, and he's wearing a coonskin hat.Yeah, that's my lawyer.Have you seen that?Yep.
Let's hear what these people had to say.
Okay, which people?The ones that did this study.
Yeah, so that's who put it together, but you know, they're going by, okay, Sure.
They sent the, they sent the thing out, but I received the thing saying, Hey, move to Wyoming because they don't work much, which surprised me because then I started looking at this.
I'm thinking oil fields, oil fields, oil fields, but then Wyoming comes in at top 10 of not working that much.Well, I wonder how that oil field, I wonder how they account for farm and ranch labor.Okay.
Looking at weekly hours worked for every state to determine which States work the most throughout the year.
Researchers also compared figure to the average hours worked in 2014 to see which states are experiencing the greatest changes in working patterns.You want to know who else works hard?Arkansas.Michigan.Texans.
No, Michigan is going to be not working hard state.Texans, North Dakotans, West Virginians, Energy, Kentucky, Mississippi.They work hard. Oklahoma works hard, Arkansas works hard, Arizona works hard.Oh, no, no, we're not working much now.
Hold on, what's going on?No, no, that's the top 10.
But why is Wyoming in a, the whole thing was that they don't work hard in Wyoming.
Why would I get a solicitation to move to Wyoming if I didn't want to work that much?
Your phone's not as smart as you think it is.
Steve, you are a hardworking dude.
You have an hourly assumption in your contract.That's how you get paid.
I don't know.I haven't seen that in my contract.
You work well, well beyond the 50 hours a week or whatever you are supposed to be working.I guarantee it. None of that is trackable.You apply this to anybody, this is gonna be true.
If someone's laying in bed thinking about something, how do you count that up?
And when Randall brought up agriculture,
Are they clocking in when they go to check cows in the middle of the night?That's a great point.
Did you go out to ranchers and be like, well, did you count when you had to run back out and drive way the hell out to check if the pump was working at the irrigation thing?
Yeah, and I mean, it's an hour each way.Right, right.And so this is based off of like taxes at the end of the year.You have all these.
It's capturing a lot of energy work because it's all, you know, a lot of it's hourly.You're clocking in and clocking out.It's capturing probably a lot of service industry work.You know who's got it graviest?
Surprise me.The graviest state is Delaware.
If you work too hard, you blow the sides out of the state.
Hey, okay.I've been trying to say this.What I saw when I saw that list aside from Texas, which is kind of an anomaly is poverty.
Like I bet if you put that list up beside the income, you would have those, those numbers would be, you know, you would have many of those States on the same top 10 poverty.
So yeah, it'd be like a good paradox.It'd be, how do you have some of the lowest. How do you have some of the lowest, how, like how often do low GDPs overlap with not working much?Then they go on and talk about how we work more.
We work less than we used to, which is sad, but we work more.This is saying like we Americans work more than Canadians.Americans work more than Brits.Americans work more than Spaniards.Americans work more than krauts.
But we could beat all them in a war again So I just feel like this should be celebrated not treated like a bad thing Hard-working semi, you know, we don't America said the man with his feet on a cooler We do get that Labor Day holiday
And I just feel that while I'm here fishing in Louisiana and hanging out, I feel like it needs to be recognized how hard we're working down here in Louisiana.
But I do worry about the future of America if we're laying off, but some of our traditional enemies, the British and the Germans.
Very traditional. The late Norm MacDonald had this bit where he was talking about what countries, he was talking about the axis of evil, remember with George W. Bush?It was Iran, Iraq, and North Korea.
And at that time, Norm MacDonald was talking about what countries Americans most fear.And he says to the audience, now I don't know if you're
If there's any history buffs here tonight, it gets into, it gets into Germany.
So there's that.Uh, Cal, can you explain, I've been wanting to talk about this and what's funny.It lines up.I have a little thing in my notes function on my phone called podcasts fodder.
And I will put things that I would like to someday discuss on the podcast.And I had written in my podcast notes, the concept of reciprocity when it comes to wildlife management.And it was on my head and I just wrote it.I'll tell why in a little bit.
And Cal comes up talking about a reciprocity concern.And I feel that we should explore this and I'll let Cal run with it once I explain that my only familiarity with the concept of reciprocity
in terms of hunting rights came from the fur trapping regulations.
And at times when fur prices get really high as a way for a state to protect the economic interests of its own people, they would put in a reciprocity clause because people, when fur prices get high, you have this thing called state hopping where trappers will bounce around the country going to a bunch of different states and you'd have friction where
you'd have a state like traditionally Montana, it just changed, traditionally Montana would not allow non-residents to trap fur-bearing animals.So states would get back at them.
and they would say, a state like, let's say, I might be wrong, let's say Wyoming does sell non-resident licenses.Wyoming would say, but since our residents aren't able to trap fur-bearing animals in Montana, Wyoming is open to any state
that would extend the same rights to our residents, but will block them for reciprocity.And I started thinking about if the vote in Colorado, which we're gonna talk about in a minute, what's the prop one, what is it?
If prop 127 passes in Colorado, would we explore the idea of the reciprocity clause, meaning Coloradans should not be able to come to Montana to hunt mountain lions, because a Montanan cannot go to Colorado to hunt mountain lions.Take it away, Cal.
Yeah and then we had another kind of famous amongst us case of fishing game regulations in the state of North Dakota when we were out ice fishing and we had our friend Jay Siemens down from Canada and where he's from in Canada they can't legally or non sorry non-residents can't legally spear through the ice
In North Dakota, there's a reciprocity law that pertains to ice fishing.
Which blew my mind.I was there and I somehow didn't pick this up.
That's why Jay wasn't spearing through the ice when you smashed that pike and I was dying of COVID.So anyway.
That was the most just generally uncomfortable experience I've ever had.And then to have to do it where you're almost dead from COVID would be even worse.Because I was fine and I was uncomfortable.
So if you're a North Dakota resident, In North Dakota, if you want to spear through the ice as a non-resident, you have got to allow North Dakotans to spear fish through the ice wherever it is you come from.
Us Montanans could spear through the ice in North Dakota.Jay could not spear through the ice in North Dakota.That's reciprocity and fishing game laws.
And I had, and this really woke me up because I was already wondering if we should go down a path, and this is a slippery slope, and it would be very tricky for me in some ways too, because I like to bounce around a fair bit, but I was thinking in my head,
would it be an interesting concept to introduce this reciprocity issue in other areas outside of trapping?
And then I get to talking to Cal about it, and Cal's reminding me, Cal's proposing a reciprocity piece, which you should get to, and then reminded me of the fishing one, and I was surprised to realize that the reciprocity idea has already been applied elsewhere outside of trapping, point being,
the reciprocity piece of spearfishing in North Dakota.And Cal brought up a great reciprocity one, which is.
In the state of Wyoming, and I've unfortunately bitched and moaned, screamed like a mashed cat over this. Like a caught raccoon.Like a raccoon held a gator's teeth.
That as a non-resident hunter in the state of Wyoming, you cannot hunt in a federally designated wilderness area without a Wyoming guide.
And that guide can be another Wyoming resident that signs a paper and says, I'm guiding this, you know, I'm their host in the wilderness area.Cause that doesn't have to be a paid thing.
I came up with the idea that I'm like, oh, this should be a reciprocity issue where Wyoming residents shouldn't be able to come to Montana and hunt in our wilderness areas.Without you going with them.
Yeah.Why is that not?Why is that not being, why is that not a reciprocity issue?Why would you be able to live in Wyoming and then be able to go hunt wilderness areas in Idaho and Montana and everywhere else in the country?
Right, and so I floated this out there on my podcast, the Cal's Week in Review podcast, and this is just the subject line in Russ Grisbeck's email to me.Leave Wyoming and don't come back, asshole.
I really sick of you pissing and moaning on my awesome state and advocating for more rules and regulations.
I don't like it.You're advocating for rules and regulations?They're the ones that have the rules and regulations.
I don't like the wilderness ban either, but advocating to put restrictions on Wyoming residents because of our game and fish having dumb ass rules.F off, Cal.Stop being so entitled.
I think he's mixing some things up.
Well, but it also kind of validates my point if Ole Russ here is so fired up about just the thought of not being able to hunt a wilderness area because of, as he puts it, their own dumbass rules.Yeah. then maybe we got something here.
Maybe he doesn't think they're as bad as he leads on.Yeah.Maybe he should get involved in the process and talk to his game and fish and say, hey, you know what, I think we're good.
I don't believe it's game and fish.It's not game and fish.It's Wyoming Outfitter and Guides Association.Well, yeah.
So I have, I can't say, I'd love to be able to say who told me this, but he would be very pissed if I said, I have it on good authority. that that rule is a legal house of cards.
And that if a Rosa Parks type individual, I don't mean to in any way equate being able to hunt wilderness areas with, with suffrage and civil rights movement.
So let me walk that back.Civil disobedience.
Okay.If a civil disobedience person, um, Kind of want to go back and reuse my analogy, because I do kind of like it, but I don't.Were to go and say, here I am, I'm hunting in a wilderness area in Wyoming without a guide.Come give me a ticket.
And then they gave themselves even a half-assed bit of legal representation, the house of cards would collapse.Part of the problem is this. I got a bunch of points to burn.Here's, here's like one of the wrinkles.
Here's where it becomes a little bit arbitrary and capricious.A wolf.Okay.Take a wolf from Wyoming in the Northwest corner of the state.A wolf from Wyoming is a big game animal.
Outside of that area, this, this little marked off area, a wolf from Wyoming is not a big game animal.It's the same as a coyote.It's a non game animal.
Meaning, you could hunt wolves on wilderness area, unguided, outside of this line, but you couldn't hunt wolves unguided inside of the line. And there are some other little bits about how it came to be.
And he feels that it's completely, his review of it is that the rule is completely indefensible and would be arbitrary and capricious.People like to say why the rule went into place.
And they say that it was meant to protect the interests of guides and outfitters, but that they build it as a safety issue. When he looked into it, he found that, as is usually the case, the reasoning behind a law is not codified.
Meaning when you pass a law, which has been around for a long time, no one says, hey, let's also record the primary arguments for and against.
So it was never really marked what the actual primary reason for, but it seems to have been promoted by guides and outfitters and billed as a safety issue.But you can go into a wilderness area and do free solo climbing.So is it safety?
Well, I mean, that's the fun part, right?Is like, you can go camp with a gun during hunting season.And you're totally legal to do that.You just can't be hunting with that gun.You can fish, you can ski.
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I might have to save this for a, uh, the, what's our little segment in the show where we make, make up the laws indefensible.That's a different show.Yeah, I know.I might have to save it for that, but you could do a reciprocity.
You can do the reciprocity for, uh, non-resident, uh, tag costs. Like if a deer tag costs $1,000 in this state, and they want to come into your state.When I go to Arkansas, me as a Montana resident would have to pay $1,000 to hunt a deer in Arkansas.
I don't want the reciprocity thing to get carried away.I don't want it to either, but that's kind of like, do I like it?
Here's a different take on it.I think, I see what you're saying. I think states, I ought to, I ought to receive incredible benefit as a hunter and sportsman in my state for living there.You know?
Yeah, so, you know, if the people where I live were smart enough, maybe we'd have had that law too 50 years ago.
I have never had a problem with, I mean, well, let me start by saying, I have never had a problem with, and I totally support a state giving preference to its residents, meaning that if you're fishing in your home state, you should be able to fish for 20 bucks.
And if you're going on a trip out of state, it just makes sense to me that the state should capture more revenue and can have a tiered structure and have preferential treatment on bag limits and preferential treatment on limited opportunities, particularly limited opportunities, tag draws and all that makes total, total sense to me.
Um, even though I go like when I'm fishing in Alaska, I'm always like, God damn it. these guys get to do everything, you know, bums me out, but I understand, you know, I understand it.But I think the reciprocity issue should be pushed heavier.
And there's almost like a, there's like a symbolic reciprocity where you remember when the guy, like a guy from California fishing game went to Utah to do a lion hunt after California banned lion hunting.
And he didn't, and he sort of suffered a social reciprocity and lost his position. because he went and did a hunt that you can't do in your own state, which I thought at the time was absurd.
Yeah, I mean, think of all the people that go to Alaska, like we were talking, right?
Yeah, you go to Alaska and do a brown bear hunt.You can't hunt those in lower 48.You can't hunt grizzlies in lower 48.Should everybody lose their job who's done that? Um, of course not.
But, uh, I think that like, I think with the lion thing, if you're from a state that has deemed it unsportsmanlike, unethical, to hunt lions, I don't know, should you be able to go to other states to hunt lions?
But who's that penalizing?It's not like the people that are opposing, or that are for Proposition 127 and want lions banned are gonna be like, all right, now let's go to Montana and kill their lions.You'd be penalizing all our people in Colorado.
Understood, I'm not looking at it like penalizing, I'm looking at it.The proponents of 127 would love if we had a reciprocity.
Yeah, they would love it.
That would be into their hand.
That might be true.Let me think of a different example. Cal's example of the wilderness area thing.
How could you have a state say, if you're not from here, you can't hunt our wilderness area, of which we have a ton, but our guys can freely go and hunt your wilderness areas.
Yeah, I see that.Well, but the impetus of that would be redemption of the law, which would be, that would spur Wyoming people to be like, you know what, this is kind of an antiquated old law that's So let's change it.
I mean, that would be the point of it is that it would make people have a taste of their own medicine.
Well, I'll point out the person, the law dog that did the analysis is from that state.It's from the state of Wyoming.I don't understand.Say that again.He's from the ninth most hardworking state.
The ninth most hard.You know what Brent does on the render when we're doing something he doesn't like?He says, boring.I don't care if you think this is boring or not.No, no, no, no, no.I think this is, no.That's what I think Brent was thinking.
Arkansas has implemented the same thing with out-of-state duck hunters.Reciprocity? They have limited them to specific dates and time periods.They can come for like 10 days.Yeah.
South Dakota does that as well.
They have to choose.And it's, they're trying to control the overcrowding on the public areas for waterfowl.And it's, I mean, they, sure, sure they are, but they're getting a lot of pushback from the folks that historically have come and hunted.
you know, the whole season.
Yeah, I should point out here that the rub is economic, and it's economic in two ways.
The rub is, so why can't a state, why doesn't a state just go ahead and say it's in the interest of our state residents that there are no non-resident hunting and fishing opportunities?So you'd be like, you can see that, that's justifiable.
The reason that doesn't happen is economics on two fronts.
The states need to fund their fishing game agencies and the fishing game agencies that are responsible for everything from like access enhancement, disease research, enforcement of those residents, non-residents who are hunting and fishing, and I could go on all day.
Counting animals, biological assessments, all kinds of things. they have to pay for it.
Um, it's a lot more lucrative for them to sell non-resident opportunities than it is resident opportunities that like when you go and you're fishing for 20 bucks and some other guys fishing for 200 bucks, uh, that guy kicked in 180 more dollars than you did into the States thing.
So the States need to be able to bring in people.I remember a few years ago, Alaska flat out across the board doubled. non-resident tags, just across the board, double.If it was 250, it was five.I could do more math for you.350, seven.
For financial, the other economic prong to it is bars, hotels, gas stations, fishing lodges, right?Think of the economic collapse that would occur in rural Alaska.
if you all of a sudden said, no more non-resident fishing, no more non-resident hunting.
It would kill an industry.It's historically monetarily beneficial to the area around Stuttgart in that area where the majority of the duck hunting is done is like a million dollars a day.So $60 million of revenue over a duck season there.
And then to start limiting the amount of people coming in when they sell more non-resident duck hunt stamps to non-residents than they do residents of Arkansas.That was the big calamity that
a lot of the non-residents with the argument that they were bringing up, and there was some validity to it.You know what I mean?As far as loss of revenue to the game and fish.
We could just open up like a PayPal account where they could just donate the money.Yeah, just a big old billboard.
Like a good restaurant.If we're closed, just slide your money under the door.
As soon as I can't come down anymore, as soon as I can't come down anymore, I'm just going to send all the money I would have sold.
Because we're so concerned about wildlife and duck habitat, we're just going to go ahead and give you the 60 mil.
One of the biggest resident, non-resident rubs that just gets me is, and I understand it, but in Southeast Alaska, a resident is allowed one, in our zone, it's many zones, but in our management zone, a resident angler,
is allowed one lingcod a day, any size.I knew the lingcod was gonna come up.It's just a personal passion of mine.A non-resident angler is allowed one a year.Wow.And it's a slot.And the slot's so narrow, I've taken to calling it a crack.
You know slot limits?It's a crack limit. 30 to 35.A five-inch difference.You try hitting that window.I mean, it can be done.It ain't easy.
They're really hammered down.It's fun, but it ain't easy.Up there at the Alaska Game and Fish meetings behind closed doors, they call it the Steve Rinell rule.
And then meanwhile, my brother and his little boy and they can all just get in a boat and just be like, ping, ping, ping.Load the boat, boys.Looks good to me.Throw him in the cooler.
Well, yeah, the shrimp regulation up there too, right, is like, that's a pretty big- No, it's the crab.
Shrimp's the same.Oh, no, no, no, you're right.Yeah, shrimp is way bad.I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Yeah, that's like astronomical, right?
Three, non-resident, three quarts of, this is one of the more confusing pieces of regulation.Three quarts of shrimp, headed or not,
So you can choose to have your limit be three quarts of head on shrimp, or you can choose to have your limit be three quarts of tails.
Some people like to eat shrimp heads.
I know, but guess how most people measure them, especially when on a spot, it's like three quarters head.That's just an interesting little wrinkle.Not resident, no limit.Right, unlimited.Dungeness crab, non-resident,
What's wrong?Randall and I have a little inside joke going, it's not good for air.It's about seafood?
Yeah.Something tells me it's not about seafood.Okay, moving on.
We can share with you after the crab hits the button.No, I don't want to know, ever.Non-resident crab, three dungees.Resident crab, 20 dungees. Resident, you can hand line an unlimited number of quillback rockfish.Resident, can't touch one.
Or non-resident, can't even look at them. Did you look at that fish, son?
I remember when, uh, I think it was George W. Bush.He stated like how he didn't like broccoli.And one of the comedians said he really appreciated the passion of it.Like the passion of his is, you know, this doctrine.
I appreciate Alaska's the passion behind their doctrine.
I mean, it's like we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna award the residents.
We will happily we will happily take your money.And then you will suffer.Because watching residents fish.Well, so I'll talk about Oh, on a recent a current will the trivia show come out before this?
Okay, on a recent, if you've listened to the trivia show, you heard me make a, is it a quip?When you kind of bitch for a minute?Quip?Yeah.Like a bitchy little statement?Rant?No, no, no.No, I didn't rant, I quipped.I quipped about former head of U.S.
Fish and Wildlife Service, Dan Ash, writing a bunch of, you know, writing op-eds and whatnot.
coming out in support of Proposition 127 in Colorado, which would ban any kind of hunting or trapping for mountain lions, bobcats, and oddly, lynx, even though lynx enjoy Endangered Species Act protections in Colorado.Dan Ashe making a sort of
salad, a sort of mixed salad of criticisms of lion hunting.One saying it disrupts their family dynamics.Okay.Like the Ash family dynamics?No.That by hunting mountain lions, you disrupt their family structures.Okay.
We'll get to that because I could think of that being applicable to any number of pursuits, including when you catch a bluegill off of its bed.I feel like you've sort of stirred up its family dynamic.
Him saying it's unethical and doesn't, you know, him saying it's unethical and doesn't follow the principles of fair chase he was raised with. Him saying that, that lions are somehow going to help us in the battle with chronic wasting disease.
Um, odd in that there's zero evidence that that's true and holding that in Colorado, Colorado is where. CWD was first identified in the late seventies and has had a sizable stable population of mountain lions since then.
So the most obvious case in point would be, we have a lot of lions in Colorado and we don't have CWD, but it's like, we have a lot of lions in Colorado and we're the first state to have CWD.But if we stop hunting them, it'll somehow help.Hmm.
Dan Ash saying, have I covered all of his little points?
I didn't read it.You mentioned that he was a pheasant hunter.
Oh, and the reason everybody's getting all this, the reason the animal rights community is so excited about, they now love Dan Ash.
The animal rights community would have probably not liked Dan Ash historically because he identified as a hunter, but now, he's like everybody's favorite.
Like with the left, like if someone walks away, when someone would walk away from the Trump administration, so you could be like in the Trump administration and the media hates you, despises you, then you walk away from the Trump administration and criticize the Trump administration and that night you're on Colbert.
Like they adore you now because you've like joined, you haven't fundamentally changed, you just like start arguing the thing that they wanted to argue. So now the animal rights community is like, oh, Dan Ashe is so wonderful.He's a hunter.
And he doesn't like hunting lions.His fair chase thing is absurd.I don't really know.He knows.I don't really know.But I guarantee that that guy and the circles that guy run and has done pen-raised pheasant hunting, I guarantee it.
I guarantee it, that he has hunted pen birds. I guarantee he's hunted, he's done some big game hunting.I bet you anything he's done some big game hunting around crop fields.
In terms of it being not fair chase, I would have to be, he must be speaking to some aspect of its level of difficulty.Okay?My 10 year olds can kill deer with rifles.
If I told my 10-year-old to right now go catch a mountain lion with dogs and get it, they would probably come back to me in 20 years and say they're done, they got it.I wouldn't hear from them for 20 years.
If I said to them, you can't come home until you kill a deer, they would be back later that day. It's like I don't understand what the guy is talking about in his argument that like family dinette that it disrupts family dynamics.
It's like, dude, what is happening when you hunt waterfowl?When you hunt Canada geese, Canada geese, you have Canada geese.They might not be monogamous, but they pair together and nest together.She's out doing it with other dudes.
He's out doing it with other girls, but they're going to share the nest. nesting responsibilities.When you kill a goose, what do you think has happened?Anything.
If you kill a white-tailed deer past the first week in November, you've disrupted its family dynamics because it was probably pregnant. If you've killed a female deer after the first week of November, you just aborted its fetus.
You've disrupted its family dynamics.What is he even talking about?
What does he think of the lion family dynamics when a male comes across a female with kittens and then the male attacks and eats the kittens and then stays on the female until she comes in to estrus again, which they will as soon as they aren't nursing anymore.
and then rapes the female.Does that fall into like proper relying on family dynamics?
We're using some big political buzzwords here, boys.
Yeah, well, I know, but here's the guy.It just it's frustrating to me because here's a person that's dedicated their career.I mean, he's in the zoo business now.He runs like a zoo and aquarium group of zoos and aquariums.
Sure. I mean, here's an individual that served in a very, here's an individual that served in like one of the highest level wildlife conservation things and devoted his career to the wildlife conservation thing.
And I just cannot picture how, I just cannot picture like the level of betrayal that that represents.
And also the very mixed messaging that it represents where you, by, by saying the things he's saying, he's attacking all forms of hunting that he's declaring it.He's declaring something not hard enough. which he's completely wrong about.
And he has no idea that the level of difficulty that goes into training dogs.
Never been on a lion hunt.
No, no idea about the level of difficulty.So he's like, if it's not hard enough, you shouldn't be able to do it.It's like, Dan, buddy, I want you to review some of your pheasant hunts and ask yourself, was it really, was it always really that hard?
So that's an attack on it altogether.The family dynamic thing is an attack on it altogether.It's just, I don't understand how someone could come out of this career and then make a big show and fall into the lap of, of, of this.
It's, it's, it's very frustrating.But he's not trying to convince you.
They say everybody can be bought, you know?
So I don't think he was bought.You don't think he had someone gave him money to say that?
I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities.
But he don't have to convince us sitting here.He's not trying to convince you of that.
No, I'm not saying who he's trying to convince.I just don't understand how someone could.I agree.How someone could understand.Have that shallow of a philosophical understanding.
How someone could be in the position, how they could be in the position they've been and represent the individuals they've represented and then come and arrive at this like, this like,
sort of woven fabric of complaints about something that you could apply to virtually most pursuits that he engages in.I don't get it.
Well, it also shows that you don't have to be an expert to be appointed to a high position.That might be it.Might be it.
In all fairness.You don't think?There's no chance that that high dollar campaign that has Buku dollars.A billion. Yeah, they didn't.
They didn't.Trying to find.They didn't pay Dan.Put their money.Somebody like this.They're just making a big donation to the Zoo and Aquarium Fund.
You think so?It's possible.It's possible.Only two people know.Neither of them's going to say it.I'm just saying if I had to take a wild stab.
It's just Dan and Carole Baskin.
If I had to take a wild stab. And I had to be like, do I deep down, do I deep, deep down think they bought that endorsement from him?Do I think the animal rights movement bought his endorsement?And I had to like get it right or else I had to die.
Yeah.It's not, not the path you'd take, but I don't know.
Hey, this, this came out just, I think in the last two days, but the, the, the Harris waltz campaign had a big hunter powwow.
Yeah.I got invited to go pheasant hunting over there.
Did you really?Okay.Now, do you know much about it?
Penn raised pheasant, Minnesota.
I don't know if their season's open yet.
No, he's got his, he's doing a little hunting thing.Yeah, I just, I don't know.I don't know anything about it.I have an article.Yeah, they wrote it.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Did you want to go?No.
He went?No, he wanted to.He didn't get invited?Nah.
He got invited after you said no, or you couldn't go or something.
Mark got invited and they didn't invite me and Brent?
So when I said no, Mark got invited and Mark wanted to go but didn't?Well, I talked to him about it.Oh, are they hunting pen-raised birds?Is Dan Ashe going to go criticize them?
Is Dan Ashe going to be there and be like, that didn't look like that hard of a shot.Oh, you know what else Dan Ashe doesn't like?He doesn't like this.He doesn't like that a lot of the lion hunting is done with outfitters.
So apparently, outfitting is bad. applied to lion hunting.Dan, have you ever been on an outfitted trip fishing?Was it really that hard to catch that fish with that guide?
Come on, come on. I would have been impressed if that campaign would have took those guys on like a bear hunt with dogs or something.Now that would have been impressive.
I would have gone up there and done that.I would have been like, I'll go.
This is going to be interesting.
Can you imagine Walsh walking in being like, man, that bear, he was up in that tree.
He'd later tell you a hunting lie.
Yeah, I feel like classically- He was like, how is that the tree?
The shotgun, right, is like the most neutral of hunting firearms when it comes to campaign season, right?Doesn't that feel right?Like if you see a candidate or somebody, it's gonna be with a shotgun, not a rifle.
I think that it would be a good article.I don't know why we haven't done this at our website.We should hurry up and do this, because it'd be a good article to go through time and talk about the way candidates have historically
tried to establish their hunting and fishing.
That's, you're talking about the first 10 pages of my dissertation.
Every governor in the state of Arkansas that I can remember over the last, in my lifetime, has had a duck hunting photo.Oh yeah.Both parties.That's part of the sign-up package.
Randall, do you say, can you help me with this, do you say like do you go highfalutin and say bona fides or do you say you're bona fides?I can never decide.Oh bona fides.
Yeah.They try to establish their hunting and fishing bona fides.I remember some years ago Hillary Clinton had to really stretch and she established she had a uncle who'd like to hunt and John Kerry who here's like a
Vietnam veteran, he was like a Navy SEAL in Vietnam, and John Kerry did a waterfowl hunt during his presidential bid, and took some advice from his advisors, which was very poor advice, to not carry the shotgun.
So to hunt geese with it, I believe they were goose hunting, to hunt with it but not carry it.
So then the images that come out when they're near the press, because the press wasn't invited to the hunt, so they're coming back from the hunt and someone says, don't carry the gun.
So then here he is, he's walking along and he's got like a gun bearer.And so it backfired on him.We've all been there.It backfired on him.Yeah, he wasn't a SEAL either.And then Mitt Romney got humiliated.
Mitt Romney said, oh, I'm a hunter, but he's from Utah.
Wait, was Kerry a pilot?I thought he was a pilot.
No, he was a swift.He worked on a swift boat.Swift boat.Yeah.
There you go.Brownwater Navy.Yeah.
Mitt Romney has a humiliating thing where he, so his family had long had a political history in Michigan, but Mitt Romney was from Utah himself.Mitt Romney's father was the governor of Michigan.
Mitt Romney claimed like, oh yeah, I'm a hunter, I'm a hunter. And someone digs through the state records, if I remember this correct.They went to every state.He never bought a hunting license.Yeah.
So then someone presents them in this kind of Walsian scenario.He's presented with, well, if you did hunt, you didn't have a license.And then he said, well, I did, but it was varmints. He said varmints if you don't need varmints.
It was varmints if you will and things like that of that nature.Just very embarrassing.Yeah.And then, and then, uh, I think that same, yeah, it was Ryan was his running mate.Right.
And then he is a hardcore.
Oh yeah.But then he posed, he posed for like men's fitness magazine, like lifting cause he did a bunch of CrossFit and he posed for men's fitness magazine.
doing bicep curls in his office, and one of them is him in workout gear pulling his bow back, like aiming at the camera.Paul Ryan.Yeah.His secret service code name during the campaign was Bowhunter.Not Deerslayer?
I just want to put it out there to any politicians listening, you don't have to be a hunter for me to be okay with you and vote for you.
Hey, thank you, that was sweet.
You can just be yourself, do good things.I do not feel that neither Trump nor Harris has ever sought, that I'm aware of, has ever sought to establish their hunting and fishing bona fides.
But Kamala Harris, Corinne's pulling up an article where she's talking about her Glock.That's very surprising.
Yeah, they say there's a quip from a New York Times article.A quip?I think in that 2004 election season, a columnist for the New York Times wrote that the worst time to be a bird in America is election season.That is a quip.That's a quip.
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That's a phenomenal deal.That's SummitStands.com. Randall, do you care to tell us about catching a 34-inch redfish?Does he?I don't have any good 34-inch redfish stories.I got a 35-inch redfish story.Yeah, tell me about it.
What stands out in your mind as being exceptional about that?I find that to be illustrious.
Now, Randall, I was on the boat with you, okay?So just make sure you tell the truth.
You gotta use a fact check.The truth will not be bent here.This is gonna be a straight telling.All right.I mean, we've had a great week and we, The first day we fished, I was fishing with two guests, and the first day we fished with Mark Kenyon.
We caught a pile of redfish, but we didn't really get any big ones.I don't think we had to release any, but we were catching them consistently all day.And then the next morning, we went out with a different guide.
And he took us to a spot where we were sort of nosed up to a little gap in the grass, in the marsh.And so we were fishing.You better explain the whole damn deal now.
Have we even told people what we're doing?This is the Meteater experiences.
Yeah, we're down here in Meteater.So he basically- Explained.No, I didn't mean that.I meant how he's fishing.Oh yeah, so we're fishing.For sure.
We're walking all the way back. you know, when the Earth's crust first solidified.
Sure.At some point, there was life.At some point, there was land and water.Sometime later, we hosted Meteor Experience.Yeah.
So we, I mean, so I've just fished three days.The first day, we were dividing up into boat groups, and then there's kind of crew members rotating through the boat groups.And so the first day, I went out with one guide,
We were pretty much everybody's popping shrimp under a float, live shrimp.And we fished, I mean, we fished all different types of scenarios, right?Like yesterday we were out next to an oil rig casting up against. sort of a band of rock.
Dude, that was fun.That was cool.And there's a big, you know, flare behind us just on the, on the rig.I mean, it was, it was very Gulf Coast.
Those fish were so stacked.
Yeah.And you just dropped.I've never seen anything like that.
Well, except for the second place we went where you dropped it, you dropped, if you dropped it within six inches of the grass, the barber would go straight under before, before the barber could even stand up.
Have you explained the rig yet?
I mean, it's a foam float, a popping cork, and you got, I don't know, 18-inch leader.
We call them strike indicators.It's not.
It's not.No, you don't.I like that claim.It's within the bobber family.It's within the bobber family, and it's a styrofoam float about four inches tall, and it's got a cup.The top of it is cupped.
The side going up the line to the rod tip has a cup on it. There's a shrimper going by right now.Below that there's an 18 inch leader and some guys will run a jig head at the bottom.Some guys will run a weight sitting on a hook.
The jig head is lazy I've come to determine.Yeah, we missed a lot of fish on jig heads.Although this big red I caught on a jig head. So you cast out against the grass.Okay, but hold on.
I had to stop you because an important part of the whole system of the popping cork is the fact that the cork slides on a section of basically between two swivels that is longer than the cork so it can move back and forth and it has little beads that are set on the line above and below the cork.
So when the cork or the flow is on top of the water, It's one end of that piece of slack and then below that you have what Rayne will describe the leader down to your bait.
So when you pull, the line actually goes through the cork and then it hits the next beads and it causes the sound of this crack and this pop.
And that sound is meant to imitate, some people say that it imitates shrimp swimming and cracking as they swim.Some people say it just imitates fish feeding, but it's a big time attractant.
Yeah, and those reds will come up and try to smoke the bobber.And when the bobber's sitting static, it's oriented vertically in the water, like perpendicular to the surface.
I'd say it's a 45, personally. It's vertical.
Anyway, when you pop it, it tips forward towards you and that cup pops on the surface and it makes a big splash.Like a hula popper.There you go.Precisely.Okay, you're getting there now. So should we go to the fish?
It's attached to a fish pole.Yes.Spinning rod.Which is attached to Randall.Dr. Randall.Most of the time, yes.You cast it out.You cast it out.And he says, the doctor is in.
So anyway, there we were.It was a wonderful morning.Giannis was on the boat.We had two of our guests there.And we were with the guide T-Bone. And we started catching some bigger reds.
Giannis caught two, I mean this one spot, there were basically two big points of grass coming together.And so the boat was pointing towards this gap in the grass and we were casting up towards points on either side of the boat, right?
So if you can imagine like an hourglass, we're kind of sitting right in the neck of the hourglass and we're casting up on these points, we're catching some bigger fish and then I hook into one and it goes through the neck where the two grassy points come together and just goes straight.
I mean, it's just running like it's trying to get out, trying to run down to Mexico. And it, it takes it, it strips out a hundred yards of line pretty quickly.Uh, and the drag was not buying that Yanni you're there.
Oh, it was out.It was, I haven't really had a fish that far out that then made it back to the boat, especially when they're up on the surface like that.Cause there's just so much line.It's so easy for it to come slack.And this thing just tore out.
And then went around the corner, so all of a sudden my line is running through the grass as if I've hooked something up on shore.And I'm trying to pull it out of the grass.
Randall says, the doctor is on.
I said, hang on boys.We might have to chase this one down.We're going to need a bigger boat.
I actually, I was wondering if the guide, cause that's what, when, like when we hook a big King in the current, I mean, oftentimes you unclip your anchor and go follow that fish and chase it down to try to pick up line on it.
I almost wondered if we were going to do that.Cause he got so far out.I was like, there's no way. this fish is gonna stay on.Sure enough, just a lot of hard work, you know, pumping and reeling.Hard work and just character.
And I think that fish... I think... He's in the hardest working state, you know.I think after a few minutes that fish realized what he had on the other end of the line there.And he turned around. We fought him up to the boat.
He's like, it's inevitable.I'm as good as beat.
Just look at that red-haired man.
He said, this works on everybody else, but this guy, something's different about him.I want to get a look at this fella.
So then he came to the boat, and he went around the bow of the boat a couple times, went under the boat, and yeah, we got him in the net, and it was a big 35-inch male.I don't know, it was probably 20.It wasn't a male.How did you know it was a male?
It wasn't a male.It wasn't?It's a female.
How do you know it was a female?Because males don't get that big. Well, it's squirted, but they call them bull, bull red.No, but it's females.
It's squirted the white.Milt.Milt.I have a, I have a photo with about a, I think those are all females.I have a photo.
I have a photo of it squirting about 24 of 24 inch string of Milt down the front of my body and onto the boat. Mm-hmm.You could have left that man.
Now I got to do a bunch of mill that work just then Randall said, yeah suction.
Yep Pass that down to Steve there.
My understanding is those are all females.I'm pretty sure that's a tapeworm There's no Internet's like damn it Wow, come on Wow Yeah That screams male to me.Man, dude, I think it's a, you used the word paradox earlier.I got it.
I think it's like a paradox calling them bulls.I think the bull is not referencing its maleness.It's referencing its size and strength.And my understanding is those are all females.Those are all breeding age females.Who has enough connection?
Everybody else has it.We have the Leon Moss system running in here, and it's just not working well.Which I'm surprised, because his system at our house works great.Spaceship, Mars, and all that.Come on.
But yeah, we had Leon.That's my favorite thing in the world.I read, did I tell you this story?I already talked about it.
Hold on, listen, Corinne's going to talk.
This is another. Did you find it?
This is from louisianasportsman.com.Yeah, I'm not buying it.Half of all bull reds are in actuality females.
So then what's the definition?
The front half or the back half?The inside.
I know, but I had a guy tell me the other day in Genuine Hard Work in Louisiana and told me that the males can't even get that size.
Male redfish typically average under 36 inches and weigh 22 pounds, while females average 36 inches and 22 pounds at age 15.So females are generally larger.Male redfish can get big, but females are generally larger.Guess I was wrong, but am I right?
So you got a real unicorn.
Yeah, so that makes it even more impressive.It does.You're judging by its ejaculate.Yes.
Yeah.Which the guide... A lot of big words today.Which the guide... Don't Google any of them.He confirmed our impression that that was indeed Milt.Okay, so I was wrong.That's fine.
That would be the equivalent when... Easy.
I was misled.So there we were, and I had this big red fish in the boat.A large male.And we, obviously, well over the slot.So we released it, and I ate a sandwich, and I savored that moment for a little bit, and then we caught some more fish.
The sandwich or the fish?Sandwich.Roast beef.Not a fish sandwich.Not a fish sandwich.The two were unrelated.Thank you for sharing. Yeah, and then we caught a couple big bull reds yesterday.Yeah, females.Doubled on, yeah, those were females.
I felt, at least I felt like they were.I was misled.There was an absence, there was an absence of ejaculate yesterday.
You know when you get a new piece of information, you get a new piece of information and it hasn't really become woven into your personal fabric yet.Right.But you might start telling everybody about it.
Or did you get misled?I mean, I heard the same thing.Do you need to see the photo again?I haven't made it part of me yet.
Yeah.No, I've been in your shoes.Back in the day.
Many a time.Cal, we're going to talk about Cal's alligator garb, but first I need to share a quote. I've often said, I got a lot of favorite quotes.My actual favorite quote, I can't share on the podcast.
My second favorite quote is skepticism, which I did not apply when I was told the falsehood.My favorite quote has always been skepticism is the chastity of the intellect.Now here, someone wrote in, was it Dirk?Yeah, Dirk.
who is in trouble right now about his CWD reporting.
Pat wrote in, here's a quote, Carl Sagan, at the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes, an openness to new ideas and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense.I'm going to get that tattooed on me.That's a good one.Chinese lettering.
And certainly you'll verify that that's actually what it says.
I was out with that guy when I turned on- Carl Sagan?Yeah, turned on PBS one time, and Nova was fixing to come on, and the first statement of his show was, our cousins the trees.I thought, I'm not kin to a tree.
Oh, he's going a little deeper than you, he was playing- It was way deeper.Cosmos.Yeah.
Hey, I tell you what, I think you fell into a trap that A lot of people fall in probably like 80% of people is that you're out with a Louisiana fishing guide that catches red fish every day of his life.You assume that he really is an expert.I know.
I mean, we all know that sometimes the people that are closest to a resource that have grown up with it come with all kinds of preconceived biases, stuff they've been told their whole life.
And so, you know, sometimes the guys that you think should know. are too, and they're not out, nothing against Louisiana red fishing gods.
Yeah, I was raised by a squirrel hunter to be a squirrel hunter, and I was raised to know that pine squirrels bit the testicles from fox squirrels. And I knew that like I knew my own name.
And then you talk to a squirrel researcher and he says, I don't know what you're talking about.And then he gets back to you a couple of weeks later and says, I've really looked and I just don't think that's true.
The house of cards comes crumbling down.
Or maybe not where you're from.I've no doubt spread that around, you know.Cal did one of my life's goals, but he did it on accident.So does that count?He's got the photo.It's pretty cool.He did it on accident, though.
There will always be an asterisk next to Cal's.There will always be an asterisk.I heard you cast right at it. No, it wasn't an egg.Okay.
Cal, tell us the story.No, I did not.Yeah.Let me see a picture.We were, so it caught a big, huge alligator gar.Size of a small person.And we, it was the first spot that we hit in the morning.And are being dadded by Dr. Randall.
We just want to hear the whole, we don't want to miss any of the story here.
You might need to trim down that side of the mustache to accommodate the travel podcast.
First spot in the morning, I have like a hangup with live bait when I'm just like donating bait, right?Like there's something about just, waste or something.
Like you're using dozens of shrimp per hour.
Yeah, I'm like this is not sustainable.I don't like it.What else you got type of thing.So we had one rod rigged up with a little paddle tail like exactly like you'd use for walleye.
um and probably like a quarter ounce jig head and I said said to the guide I was like hey can I throw that thing for a while and he's like yeah you can see if you can get something on that so I put one rod away picked up that thing cast
Once, work the bottom, cast again, work the bottom.
There's kind of bait popping on the surface a little bit, so I went for a faster retrieve on, you know, a little bit like mid-column, and sure enough, like, get whacked, like, oh, and it just starts dragging. like pulling drag.
And I'm like, Oh, this has to be a big black drum.Because it's not like going crazy.It's just like pulling like a truck, you know, and not a heavy duty rod reel set up by any means.And
It's like really go on and kind of have to work around the engine and then back over to the other side of the boat.And finally it's like, I'm gaining ground on it.And I'm not, I'm horsing it pretty good.How's the guide treating this scenario?
Not with too much attention.He's like, oh yeah, we'll see what you got there.And somebody did say gar, cause there were gar rolling on the surface.But I immediately was like, no,
If I would have hooked a gar, unless I foul hooked it, which is hard to do because they're so hard, so armor plated, I'm like, this thing would have popped off.
Broke the line a long time ago.But then probably less than a minute after that comment, fish comes up to the surface and here's this, you know, giant alligator gar.And then it kicks.
How long do you think it was?
Over five foot, probably right at five foot, right in there, yeah.
That was Brad's comment last night.
This dude I fished with yesterday who's great, grew up out here, used to be a commercial fisherman, super knowledgeable, he was complaining to me, so here you got all these redfish, trout, sheep's head, offshore fish, everything.
He's complaining to me that he had just set a jug for alligator gar And his jug was gone.And I said, well, what?And I'm thinking he said, for whatever reason, I don't know why he needs an alligator gar.
So I'm like, what did you need alligator gar for? That's awesome.But then he tells me he don't, and he's picky cause he don't, he don't eat speckled trout, which a lot of people come down here specifically for speckled trout.
He's fishing all day for all these famous eating fish.And then he's after work trying to go get an alligator gar, cause that's like, what do you want?
On the first day, that's what he wants.On the first day that I fished with him with Mark, we went and looked for that jug. We like, on the way back to the marina, he was like, I gotta check this jug spot to see if it showed back up.
He was like, I set it out two days ago, jug's missing, but he's gotta be in here somewhere.
Yeah, I asked him if he thought someone horked it, and he thinks something got on it.
I can tell you from where that thing was, where we looked for it, no one came across it.Because we were just ripping through, we were ripping through channels that were narrower than the gunnels of the boat. and all the way back in there.
And I'd asked him earlier when we ran up a similar little channel, I said, I said, so if another boat's coming down here, would you guys just stick it up in the grass?Or how do you, how do you signal who's going to yield to who?
And he goes, there's only two other people that drive these, these channels.He's like, and I know both of them. But he didn't actually answer the question, because he didn't clarify if he knew where they were at that moment.
It's like, yeah, do you know?
It's like a friendly collision.Yeah, yeah.At least we'll know somebody.
I think the odds are good, but you haven't quite satisfied my anxiety about this.
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That's a phenomenal deal.That's SummitStands.com. That dude told us a story that I was, I'm just going to tell it cause we're not, we're not, we did our last camp, our last close calls thing, but check this out.
So he used to have a buddy named Nam who was from Vietnam and he was a refugee that came to the U S after the end of Vietnam war.And they lived in the same, what he called it.
He showed me the village, which is not there anymore, but where he was brought up and Nam was in his village.And when Katrina came, They had gone and checked on Nam multiple times to make sure they're all on the same page that Nam is in fact leaving.
He's going to evacuate.And everyone was understood that Nam was evacuating and they had a plan put together, but then he doesn't evacuate.As the water's coming up, he first thing is gets and sits on his kitchen table as the water's coming up.
Then he goes into his attic. The water keeps coming up to the point where he swims.He gets a breath hold and goes back down and out his kitchen window.When he pops up, he realizes that his house isn't even where it was before.
He was unaware in all the turmoil that the house was drifting. So it's not that the water came up, it's that the house had left its foundation.He eventually grabs on, you know those glass balls on phone poles?
He eventually gets hold of one of those, and there's so much junk coming by that he's afraid he's gonna get picked up in the debris.A tire comes by, he grabs the tire, holds onto the tire, and three miles later hits a fire station roof that's dry.
And that's where he winds up.
And I think at one point he was ended up hanging on to the top of a phone pole.Yeah.That's yeah.
That insulator.Yeah.And on that truck tire eventually hit a roof and got out of the water.Wow.And, um, He got played out on that and moved.
And the guy told me, I don't wanna divulge who he was, because this is a personal story, but we're talking about, we're doing that whole, you got kids, you married and all that, he's married, but he's telling me about a past relationship, which didn't work out, and he says, she was rough.
And then someone hooks a fish, one of our guests hooks a fish, so then I'm spending hours hoping he comes back around, but I didn't want to prompt, and eventually he came back around with more of an explanation.
That was the most stressful period of my trip.I would compare it to the stress that Phil feels in the hardest working state in the union when people just aren't getting going on getting what he needs to have happen done.
Yeah, that guy, when he drove past, he showed us the village and it's just two gravel like aprons.And he's like, that used to be that road.That used to be that road. And we're like, well, what did it look like when you get back?
And he's like, just like this.And it's just grass.I mean, there's nothing there.And we said, did you ever find anything that you left there?He said, yeah, my work truck.We're like, what's the story there?
He goes, it's over there and points out to the water. And he's like, it's still there.And that was it.He's like, my work truck ended up 200 yards out in the water there and it's still on the bottom.He was incredible.
He said, he told me, I said, what was the name of the village?He said, it was just called the village. And they were called the village people.
Not joking.That's what all the people at the marinas called them.
We get to this brushy corner, and he says, that was a beach.That used to be a beach.And he says, a big alligator would lay right there.And he points right across from the beach.He said, that alligator would always be there.It lived.
It sunned in that spot.And all the kids from the village swim in this spot.And he goes, I don't understand why they let us swim here.
Even said it one day that alligator went up and ate one of the neighbors dogs Yeah, and they still didn't stop the kids from swimming in that spot.
Yeah We had nothing to land the alligator guard with oh right the guard isn't that funny yeah No those are worthwhile stories right in if you disagree
So that that was like honestly like the one of the more fun parts about the whole thing because the whole time you're like there's no way this fish is coming on I was like just feel fortunate that we got to confirm what it was and watching it come out of the murk was so cool.
Could you tell where you had it hooked? Yeah, right in the corner of the jaw.The only place that fish would have gotten to the boat.So that mono leader that we all just heard the description of was well outside of the toothy area.
And the scales, you know, the scales are so hard that it'll cut mono too.So we took the bow line from the boat, right, so it's got a loop in it, kind of made a lariat.
The guide, we put the loop over the end of the rod, fed it all the way down the rod, down the line, to the gar.
Well, I got confused.What's the objective?
Is to lasso the gar.To bring it in the boat.Right.
Oh, because you're not getting it in the net.You got to get the jig back.
Right.He put the net out there.Oh, I understand now.
That isn't going to do it.I understand now.So he passes the loop over the rod, down the line, and then lassos it.
Yeah, so you do a little hand over hand to get the rope down there. We're like, okay, we kind of did that.That's good.And he's like, now lift his nose up.And it's like, well, that, we can't do that.
It's not, the rod's not stiff enough to get this prehistoric fish out of the water.But, so he kind of got his hand in there and got the loop over the gar's nose and then the gar kicked and I'm kind of like waiting for the rope to go top.
Well, he never grabbed it and gave it a jerk.So the fish just swam straight through it.
He's like, so long suckers!
And so then it's like zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I'm guessing he was fine when you turned him loose.They don't seem like you fazed him too bad.
No, I gave him like the big shocking plunge, you know?And that thing just kicked like it was swimming all day.
Yeah, he's like all in a day, dude.
Yeah.But yeah, super, super cool fish.And yeah, we were talking.
to uh about this study that came out just this year on um evolution right and it was like so agar is a living fossil as is like a and this is on fish as is like a coelacanth as is uh i guess you could say a javelina is too sandhill crane sandhill crane
But this study was on fish, so it was like tarpon, a couple other things to kind of see how they have changed.And they demonstrated that the longnose gar and the alligator gar have changed the least.
And even though, so little, they're so genetically different, or not different rather, that even though the long-nosed gar came along like a hundred million years after the alligator gar, they can still have successful hybrid offspring.Really?Yeah.
So it's like, is it perfect evolution?Right?It just got to a place of ultimate survivability that is just like no changes needed. Yeah.The little windows update circle is like still spinning or not spinning.Take your pick.
So yeah, no, um, that was, that was super, super cool.All right, man.
We're wrapping her up.Corinne says you're the best for last.Corinne, share your Stingray story, Corinne.She was looking for Mr. Right.
It's not really my Stingray story.It was just that we were on a boat with two guests, Mark and Joe, and Joe hooked on to something that, you know, just gave him a, it was a tussle, and he ended up pulling in a really huge stingray.
I don't, in diameter, I don't know how big.Okay, Steve is whispering it wasn't that big.
Well, I mean, just in the way of stingrays.It was a pretty normal southern stingray.
I guess all day we had caught like a couple of baby, baby ones.
Do you know what the other, what the more common stingray is here?
I don't know what this one is.
No, it'd be easy to find out.He caught a, he caught a very normal Southern stingray.
Okay.So then the ones I'd caught were just tiny babies.
Nope.They were different species.
Oh, I see, okay.But anyway, I guess a lot of people don't know you can eat them.And Steve has definitely cleaned his fair share, as you were telling me, of stingrays.And you call him a low-yield critter.
But I just really wanted to taste what they tasted like.
It didn't get mopped up as quick as all the other fish that get served here.
Oh, no.I mean, we, we, yeah, we, we ate that.So I guess you, you cut them off.Uh, how would you describe it?It's like you cut into it's yeah.You cut the side wings off.
Yeah.The wing, each of the wings has two fillets on top of a cartilaginous collection of rays, I guess one would say.
And then on the bottom you had like kind of thinner.
Yeah, low yield on top, low yield on bottom, better yield on top.
There was a lot of meat that came out of that fish, like four people didn't even finish it.
And I will say the only reason it didn't get mopped up faster, I thought it was very good, but there is a liberal, would be the nice way of putting it, amount of blackened seasoning on top of it.
Yeah, that's what I was struggling with.
I quite liked it, but it was, he had just, our chef has been phenomenal and very hardworking and has done just a nonstop array of amazing food, but he got, something got a little, I think that he wasn't enthusiastic.He was very receptive.
It was the first time he ever cooked it.
Yeah, he was like, sure, I'll do anything. But I think that he might have been like, oh, I'm going to put a little extra.He was skeptical, and I think he might have thought, well, I'm going to put a little extra seasoning out there.
He did tell me last night, too, that that blackened seasoning that they had is not what he typically does, because when that stuff really chars, he thinks it gets even saltier.Classic chef's deal, right?
It's like, well, that's not what I usually have.
But there are certain, and this is one of them, there are certain things where the yield is so low I end up feeling bad about it.Have you ever cleaned a shovelnose sturgeon?
So you get this big old cool fish and you clean it and you're like, geez man, I feel like, here's like 15% of the fish is in my hand.
Yeah.Um, uh, spoonbill or paddlefish, you know, like if you're getting rid of the red meat, man, he really feel bad about, you know, raised.
I always, you know, you feel like you're done and it looks like there's still a Rayleigh in there.Never bothered me, but you're right.Frog legs.Yeah.That hasn't bothered me, but yeah, it's a, yeah.
Frog is a low yield creature, but it doesn't bother me.But now maybe it will. Yeah, it's just guts, just intestines.
And are you guys going to fight over whether it tastes like scallop or not?
I didn't think... The whole... Listen, man, I'm going to do a bunch of research when I get a minute and I'm going to do a presentation on scallops.
I think I have an explanation of where it maybe came from.Does that fillet at the table? His grandfather had a special tube that he had made 12 inches long.For real?I'm just trusting a nice gentleman that spent a week with us or three days with us.
Okay, that's fair.And it was sharpened on one end.And he would punch the little scallop shapes out of the wings.But what I didn't know is that I would have thought they would have filleted it first and then done it, but they didn't.
So maybe that's where that comes from is because as a way to more easily process such a pain-in-the-butt animal to process, they just punched little scallops out of it and then they would just quickly cut the two pieces of skin off and then just cook them.
So maybe that's where that came from.
I know that little tool they're talking about because I had a biopsy taken with one of those. That little stingray scallop maker, yeah.No, mine was a mini one, but yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.That's a good idea.Could be, could be.
It's a, yeah, they call it, you know how everybody down here, like everybody in the whole world started some years ago referring to a fish with its skin on as on the half shell.Yes.Which is coming from oyster, like the whole world adopted that.
Maybe calling it a scallop was because you're just cutting a little circle out.
And it looks like- It had nothing to do with scallops.Someone was like, they're trying to sell me fake scallops.They really weren't.
They're just trying to eat rays.That could be.Thanks for listening, everybody.Thank you, Phil. Thanks, Phil.
Phil, enjoy your afternoon in New Orleans.I wish you the best.
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Whether you're a culinary pro or just love going to restaurants, you know, the best ingredients are everything, especially when it comes to beef in Northern Australia. There's a different approach to raising high-quality beef.
Westholm, based in Queensland in the Northern Territory, is working with the land to create nature-led Australian Wagyu.Westholm believes that when nature leads, flavor follows.Learn more at westholm.com slash meat eater.
That's W-E-S-T-H-O-L-M-E dot com slash meat eater.
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