Hello and welcome to the Essential Training Podcast with me, Brian Kingston and my dad, Ian Kingston.
At Essential Training, we work with individuals and teams to help them reach more of their potential so that they and their organisation reap the benefits.
In this podcast, we chat with some amazing people who have extraordinary stories and I hope you enjoy. This episode is brought to you by Fodsail Saunas.
Fodsail is the Irish for long life, and they were Ireland's first commercial sauna service set up in 2019.Their mission is to communicate, educate, and inspire people on the benefits of sauna and cold bathing.
And their vision is to enhance the well-being of the people of Ireland and further afield, and to give people more healthy lifestyle choices.They have locations in Greystones, Galway, and Clontarf Rugby Club in Ireland.
And I am a regular user of the sauna.I go down once or twice a week.They're only down the road from us.
And they have set up an amazing community there, where you've got the sauna, you've got Rise of the Cove coffee, right in the midst of Tiglin, which is Ireland's oldest addiction treatment center clinic.
So you've got a real mix of people and mindsets and
I go down there, I spend 15 minutes in the sauna, step outside, cool down, go back for another 15 minutes and then I usually pop down to the sea, spend a couple of minutes in the sea depending on how brave I feel that day.
And afterwards I always feel rejuvenated, energized and sometimes I'll pop in for a coffee at Rise of the Cove and I just love bumping into people down there and there's an amazing community.
And Steve says this, and I felt it as well, it's kind of like the vibe of a pub without the alcohol.You go down with friends, you can go down alone, you can bump into people, you can stay on your own, and it's just this amazing.
vibe and amazing community people.So we're so happy to be sponsored by Fodsale and long may it last and we're excited to see where this partnership goes.
So thanks Steve and your team for Fodsale Saunas for sponsoring the podcast and go check them out on their Instagram or on their website.
The guy I was just for a walk with is talking about putting a deal together in a business.And he was using an interview that he heard Johnny Sexton giving at the weekend.
So Johnny Sexton was on, he's on the roadshow at the moment because he has his new book launched.And I've heard a number of interviews.So I heard Brendan O'Connor interviewing him, that's the one he was referring to in RT.
And he said, the amazing thing about Johnny Sexton, he said, when you listen to that, and he had hit burnout, and he said, similar to kind of a feeling I had this summer.
And I've been standing back from it now and, you know, kind of... Johnny's ex used the phrase, when he was told he'd burned out, they didn't say burned out, the doctor said to him, Johnny, that's stress-like, you're suffering.
Johnny says, I eat stress-like.You know, I kick him from day to day.That wasn't the issue, because the stress of doing, because the stress you're putting yourself under, you're not taking the break.He said, I felt that this year, this summer.
And he said, I'm working out of that now, looking at my diet, looking at my health, and looking at everything.But he said, I'm putting together a deal, and I can see a deal that I'm putting together, and I can see it four steps ahead.
And he said, the analogy is Johnny Sexton, who he said, I listened to Luke Fitzgerald on his podcast, The Left Wing, talking about the difference between Johnny and other old haves, and how Johnny would play four plays ahead.
And he said like, so he'd be pulling people over rooks.And this guy saying to me, he said, I never played rugby.He said, I play sport.I'd never played the game of rugby.
He said, I can see right now how people in my business are going into rooks they shouldn't be in.Like playing checkers, but they should be playing chess.No, no, no, no, no, no.It's a bit more subtle than that.They're playing the right game.
They're just playing it the wrong way.They're focusing on the wrong stuff. And it's not being airy-fairy about it.It's going after the wrong thing.
So like I have a client right now who wants me to be at their senior meeting tomorrow, as in their executive meeting, because his fear is that they have created such a phenomenal pipeline that they may not be ready for it next year.
He's brilliantly looking at the plays ahead.
Because I know I could talk to some of his senior people, and they'd be going, we'll smash our target for this year, like, January 31, or December 31, hitting it to January 1, boom, we'll be out of the cap. This founder is looking way beyond that.
He's looking to this time next year.He's looking to even six months beyond this time next year.He's looking to 18 months time and saying, will we be coping with what we've created?Because that's where we'll be needing to kick on from.
And that's the Johnny Sexton thing of pulling fellas out of rocks because I need you for three plays time, not this play.Like you're just another body thrown in now.
And it reminds me of Ronna Gara speaking last week, and he asking the audience, can you teach someone to see?And explain that he had no half, that has the sweetest left foot he said he's ever seen, a young fella.And he's just wondering.
from the business community, is that something you would teach?Like, you know, take it away from sport.
And people started answering, one person started answering about how we, all the time in business, send away to create vision and purpose, and was explaining it really eloquently, and he just shook his head and he said, no, that's not what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about being able to see plays ahead, like he said.And it reminded me of your example.Yeah. Go on.Do you remember when you were, was it under 20, under 18?Under 19.Under 19.
Yeah, go on.Go on, you tell it, yeah.
I'll add to it.I'd like to hear your perspective.My perspective was you getting a call from the coach to say, how do you think the game went?And he was saying, yeah, good luck.And we had done this and that.
And I said, OK, so tell me, what defence were they playing?And I remember you saying that to me, going, holy shit. But that's what he was expecting of you.He was expecting of you to be looking at that and above and beyond that, yeah?
Yeah, lots, lots, lots.Yeah, I remember getting that phone call in the car.We were in the car together and just being kind of flabbergasted that he was calling me in the first place.
And then kind of flabbergasted that he was half calling me out by asking the question. Because he knew I didn't know and I knew I didn't know.And did I care to know?Did I?
And, you know, you were saying before we pressed record about the difference between someone like Johnny Sexton and a Ross Byrne, like Johnny Sexton had to fight for it in Mary's over the years and then get into the system and was fighting an uphill battle.
And that's what made him, you know? And what's interesting with that is actually it reminds me of the talk last night.So last night when I was back in Blackrock College, giving a talk to fifth year parents titled The Road Less Travelled.
And there was three past students. giving talks of their journey.One guy in his 40s, one guy in his 30s, one guy in his 20s, and facilitated by the Past Students Union, which is kind of an amazing initiative.
I mean, anybody I've told them doing that, I'm like, wow.They were like, you know, wow.Because what an amazing gift for the parents to hear different perspectives on not just the law, the doctors, the engineers.Absolutely.
And they get that perspective as well.But they give those talks to the boys.But for the parents, they give the road less traveled.
Because I think the sentiment is there can be a pressure from parents to go into the UCD and Trinity in the Dublin example, for example.And maybe that's not what's best for the kid, or maybe that's
pushing them into a square peg into a round hole and that's going to come out in the wash eventually when they're 20 and they want to drop out or if they fail or if you know when they're 40 they wake up being like I never wanted to be an accountant you know that's I think that's what they're trying to mitigate against you know and and
I was pulled in last minute.I think they had a dropout, but I've done loads of those talks before.So I think they knew that I could speak and they knew that I've certainly taken a path less traveled.
So it was such an honor to be asked and it was so enjoyable.And I got laughed out of the other speakers as well.
And maybe we'll go into what was said and everything, but there was a question from one of the parents afterwards in the Q&A and the career guidance counselor stood up and he started speaking about failure and letting them fail.
and letting them, yeah, letting them fail.Letting them, you know, let's say if they're failing in a subject, not just jumping in going, well, get your grinds.Kind of going, well, what do you want to do?Do you want to keep failing?
Or are you happy with it?Or do you care?And then letting them come to you with a decision, you know, and it's a balance.And I think that was the tough thing about the talk.I mean,
Parents, when they start asking questions, we could only give from our lived experience.We couldn't necessarily say, this is what you do.This is what you don't do.And I said that was one of the answers.
I was like, look, I'm going to tell you from my experience.But when I'm a parent, I'm almost afraid of what I'm going to say because it will come back to bite me when I'm a parent.
But he started speaking about failure and I thought it was brilliant what he was saying. To a certain extent, like, and one of the, Mark Rogan, who's the vice president of the past students union made a great point, a counterpoint.
He was like, well, if they want to get the grinds, get them the grinds.Do you know what I mean?But don't helicopter in going, we'll get your grinds.And I thought it was a really kind of subtle point because.
It reminds me of being a Black Rock and playing out half and my kicking, I was never known to be a good kicker.
So I remember getting Richie Murphy, you had Richie Murphy come in to kick me, who at the time was just an up and coming coach in Leinster, but now he's, you know, done amazing with Irish 20s.But I didn't seek that out.Do you know what I mean?
I think that's, in my experience, now I'm in my thirties and seeing people who went pro and who have had amazing careers and are still playing amazingly, it's the people that wanted it enough that were seeking it out themselves.
Whereas for me, I kind of, looking back, I probably felt that I was doing it because I was good at it and not because it was something that I was drawn towards. You know?And that was a bit of the theme of the talk last night.
It was, how can you listen to your kids and hear what they're interested in?And that became a theme of all the different conversations was, how do you really listen going?Well, like if they're playing Fortnite, what do they like about it?
Who do they hang around with?What are they interested in?Maybe they like getting the achievements.Maybe they like hanging out with their friends.And that example was used as something that might seem annoying,
to a parent actually, well, if you maybe just take a step back from they should be studying and just maybe take time to listen to your kid, maybe you'll see, oh, there's some latent interest here that maybe we could support, you know?
And that was a bit of a theme is not necessarily supporting them on what they're good at, but what they're interested in.And one of the parents, the organizer of the past students union talk said, Oh, well, his son's really into soccer.
He doesn't like it.And he wants to go to the Liverpool game.And he's like, look, it's a bit expensive.And they're kind of clashing, him and his son.
But he said, what he said is, OK, you go find a cheap stadium in Europe where they're playing, and we'll go to it.So a bit of a compromise.And gave him a way to support his own interests in a doable way for the dad.
And, you know, you could hear in the story, the struggle that they're having at the moment, which you and I have had at different times in our life.
Of, you know, clashing heads or butting heads.And, and that was really interesting.So what are you saying?I was wrong to get you a kicking coach.
That's the moral of the story.
Is that what you're taking from it?
I'm waiting for you to like, yeah.
Yeah, well, what was coming up for me as you were talking is, God, do I see it?Do I see the deal?Do I see the... Because I know playing rugby, oftentimes I did, oftentimes I didn't, because maybe I didn't really want it.
And in life and in business, it was kind of asking that question myself, do I see it?And I think part of this podcast is seeing something that, right, there's something special here.How can we expand the audience of this?
It's part of doing that in a business sense.But I think certainly, you know, bringing on new clients for us.I think I could be looking at things a different way. and almost be making it a lot easier for us by trying to do a certain thing.
But actually, if I just see it as connecting the dots and adding value to people and God, I'd love you to experience this.And, you know, maybe that's part of the learning process.Is that, yeah, maybe I can see that.
Maybe I have the ability to see the dots, the dots connecting. You know what it reminds me of?What?The story of one of our clients who. I spoke to his son, did a few sessions with his son, and I had a call with him.
And that seems to be a bit of a niche that we've kind of carved out, is a lot of your clients who you've worked with over the years, they might have a son, a teenager, or in their early 20s, and might be at a bit of a crossroads.
And I've had a few chats with a few people, and it seemed to have been a benefit to them.But I usually chat with the parent first, just to hear what's going on. And he told me a great story.
He was kind of giving me the whole context and what was going on and what they'd like and what they're challenged with and all this stuff.Who was, the dad?The dad was.
And he told me the story of, remember the factory worker story, where the factory worker leaving every day with a barrel of, a wheelbarrow of sawdust and going out.I use that story.Do you?Yeah. It was on the TED talk as well.Was it?
Yeah, it's brilliant, yeah.Well, I was telling this to someone at the weekend, because I think it's kind of analogous to what we're talking about here.Because after an hour conversation, he said, look, let me tell you this story.
This is the situation we're in.So there's this factory worker, and every day he's leaving the factory.And one day he leaves with a wheelbarrow and a big mound of sawdust.And the person operating the entrance and exit, the security guard, is going,
What's going on?He's like, well, look, all this sawdust is left on the floor and it just goes to waste, so I'm just going to take it.And your man's like, kind of a bit, okay, but grand, whatever.
And he's doing that then for a couple of weeks and your man stops him and goes. Okay, what's going on here?Like, you're going to get me in trouble.What's going on?He's like, yeah, look, just the sawdust and whatever.
And your man's like, okay, grand, but like, you know, maybe don't do it every day.You know, there's just something a bit off here.So he keeps doing it, whatever, after a period of time.
And finally the security guard stops him and goes, what's going on here?Like, you know, and the guy leans into him real close and goes, I'm stealing wheelbarrows.And I love that story.
But I asked the dad, I was like, well, who's your son in the story?My son is the security guard.He's not seeing what's right in front of his face.He's not seeing the wood from the trees.And I relate to both those people in the story.
I relate to sometimes have been the security guard, not seeing the opportunity right there.
And I also relate to being on the outside looking in and seeing someone being right next to an opportunity that they just can't take because they can't see it.You know, they can't put themselves in the way of it.And the frustration of that.
Or then being the guy with the wheelbarrow being smart enough.
able to get a wheelbarrow because as I tell that story just one piece to embellish it like is the security guard not alone is just looking at the security guard checks the sawdust every day to make sure there's nothing in there.
That's very good yeah.You know so like I'm doing my job properly and you know how we can be stuck in the detail of doing what's right in front of us and seeing what's right in front of us and not actually seeing what's right in front of us.
in all of that, so like, now I've taken it apart, so if you said to that security guy, you know, and that's how I tell the story, so the security guy's supervisor sees it on video and goes like, what are you doing letting the fella walk out?
He said, no, I checked it.He said, no, I see you checking it.There's nothing in it, like, it's only solid.Nothing's meant to be leaving the factory, full stop, so it doesn't matter, like, just stop it or you'll lose your job.
But like, I can tell you as a security guard, I've checked it every time, like, I've swirled my brush, look, look, like, I know, I know, I know, I see you, you're checking it, you're right.
And that's, you know, so back to my lad and the four plays out, you know, Johnny Sexton, you know, and I think there's a guy brilliantly using that analogy who's never played rugby, just understands football, but he sees it in the deal he's putting together and going, I can see that deal and I can see how to put it together.
And I know how I'll get that finance and I know where we'll put the market and we'll do all of that.And that's his magic sauce. And the challenge for us in life is to be able to stand back and see the game unfolding, whatever the game of life.
Well, that reminds me of the two-day workshop we did last week.And we just got the video back from Sean, who did an amazing job.Shout out to Sean.Bringing 25 leaders from a business, their first ever offsite.And how long have they been in business?
know after someone seeing the video they're saying i think sometimes people underestimate the value in seeing the in taking a bit of time out and stopping to go forward absolutely and yeah this gas we'll see what reaction from them then to that video is but i mean the reaction
Like that I've got from the client and from people in there who are on it is like, I didn't believe that we could get done what we got done.
And one guy shared with me yesterday, he's just like, what I loved about it is we actually got, we didn't do team stuff, team building stuff, but we did loads of team building stuff.
Because we did it through the works, we said like it was great that we were doing stuff and getting to know people in small groups and stuff that's relevant.
So what I heard in that is like we weren't putting play-doh together to try and get to know each other and pretend we're friends.
It's like we're working on real life issues that we're all involved in in some way or other but hearing mad perspectives on it because you're
grouped with people that you wouldn't normally be grouped with.And what I liked was that Pikachu thing where, interspersed throughout the whole day, people gave like a little five, 10 minute synopsis of their life and their career and who they are.
And I remember one point on day two, the conversation, which was about work and as a team and where they want to bring the company forward, there was a bit of momentum in the room and they were like, right, let's get down to action now and start.
And then I said, well, I think we should just, yeah, get the clipboards out and start doing the work. And then you were like, no, no, let's keep doing break for five minutes and do the Pikachu thing where someone.
And I was a bit like perplexed at why you did that.But then when I saw the person give their presentation about themselves, I remembered.Oh, and I realized, oh, yeah, this is what this is all about is.
the human that's doing all this, the human behind that's doing all this.
So then when people actually got into the work, it's like, oh, I know you grew up in the Netherlands and your wife and your two kids, and you were at these three companies and this is what motivates you.And it humanized the collaboration.
And it's brilliant that you bring that up, because again, that's playing a couple of steps ahead.That's playing a couple of plays ahead. And I don't want to over-egg sporting, but this is in any facet of life.It's just been a couple of moves on.
So what I find generally in groups, because I am a participant in groups all my life as well, is you're meant to get at stuff.
So I've been facilitating groups now for 30 years, and the easiest thing to do is get at something, and we feel we're around it.The challenge is to stand back from that. and maybe use that in a couple of steps ahead to do different things.
But to give us the patience to not just be at something, because to being at something is sticking your stick into the sawdust to see it's around something in the wheelbarrow.
So you feel you're at it, like you're up at a board, you're doing something, we think we're at the issue. That's not the issue.But it's kind of busy work.It's busy and it's being busy and we do the same.We're all doing the same.
So it's being comfortable.It's all about action.It's all about momentum.And at the same time, there's no point in momentum if it's going the wrong way.
That's the brilliance of, you know, the brilliance of people around the Johnny Sextons of this world or the Romans as the playmakers, you know, the Tom Brady's of the NFL, you know, the conductor conducting an orchestra, you know, what does Andre Rieu do?
Like, you know, just stands there with his hair shaking and what does he look like?You know, he's the guy pulling the strings, he's the guy pulling the talent together, he's the guy who makes it happen.
To the untrained eye, there's a fella wiggling a bit of a stick. to people who know there's someone there spotting stuff, you can do a couple of moves ahead.
Well, actually, I saw a cool video the other day about Andre Rio.I know mum loves him so much and they do all their open air concerts in Vienna and all this kind of stuff.
But the pair went out on one of their concerts and a small boy got up out of one of the high tiers in the audience and started playing a tune on a flute that he had with him.And the whole crowd in the darkness and in the silence
started clapping and singing along at this.So they, Andre Rieu, as they were backstage trying to figure out what to do with the power, when the power came back on, they brought the kid on stage and they played a really famous song all together.
And it was just a really special moment.And it was kind of like that, using that challenge as actually a massive opportunity.
And it's adaptability, and it's agility, and it's smart, and it's all about being comfortable in the space.
But that's my question, though.Can you teach someone to see it?Because in a lot of ways, I've done all my coaching qualifications, and I've been in lots of rooms with you, but I also feel like I'm serving my apprenticeship as well.
And what comes up for me as we started the conversation is, oh God, do I see it?And can I learn to see it?You know, you can put yourself like it's again, it's about putting yourself in the arena.
And if you put yourself in the arena and you're open to learning, absolutely you can.So the question I would have for that young fella that Rowan Legare was talking about is like, how is he being brought into the arena?What's his appetite for it?
It's back to you.So is he in the right arena?He may just have a super talent and it's actually not what he's hungry enough to do.And that's part of the challenge in life right now is that
You know, when I say in life right now, it's a stupid thing to say.The part of the challenge now is how you bring people to opportunity.
So if the opportunity is presented in front of you too easily, you'll have your head to fight enough to really bring out the brilliance in you. So that's part of the challenge.
And that's what that teacher was saying, the career guidance counselor was saying.And it's such a delicate balance because I think, I mean, I know if I look at us, like neither you and mum went to university.
So I know a big thing for mum was that I went to university.And that was seen as the path and the success and everything.And I'm glad I did.And I got so much out of it.
But like for a generation of parents that maybe didn't have as much and now we're trying to give to their kids what they didn't have.It's just a delicate balance, isn't it?It seems like.
All the time.But that's parenting.That's leading as well.That's work.It's like, you know, how often are we hearing, oh, people know today don't, like the kids today don't, like, you know, the grads today don't, you know.
It's ever thus, it's new generation all the time.It's just new stuff being in the way.My parents were complaining about us being on the phone, or having a phone, or having channels on TV.
Do you have that quote that you say?
Yeah, the one from the paper.Yeah.Yeah, so like, children today.I do, the children of today.
And it's again, standing back from it to see that, you know, asking the question, as you said, asking the question of children, but asking the questions of people like, what do you want?How badly do you want this?
Is it what you're really looking for?Because people will say, I want a promotion.Do you really?People will say, I want to get to the next level.Do you really?
There's a person, one of my clients, and they're forever asking people, where are you going next?And I can see they unsettle people when they ask them, because people aren't expecting it, and they haven't thought of it.
But when I say people, like grads in the business, someone in the business, one or two years, and they'll come across this senior exec, and the first question you should ask them is, so how are you getting on?Where are you going?What's next for you?
Where are you aiming to? Someone's looking and going, jeez.Have you spoken to your boss about it?In this case, the person that they're speaking to is talking about a boss who's five links down the chain from the person they're talking to.
They're saying, have you spoken to your boss about where you want to get to? So the quote is really simple.It's like, the children now love luxury.They have bad manners, contempt for authority.
They show disrespect for elders, and they love chatter in place of exercise.Children are now tyrants.They're not the servants in their households.They no longer stand up when an elder comes into a room.
They contradict their parents in front of the company.They'll talk when it's not their turn to talk.They'll eat before it's their time to eat.And they tyrannize their teachers. And the question then is, who said that?
And it was Socrates, 469 to 399 BC.So that's why I carry that with me, because it's ever been thus.So we're all facing the same stuff. as in every generation is just facing, like, is it made too easy?And people say, oh, you have it too easy now.
So they'll say, professional organ players, I should have had it too easy in order to go into the academy.They do not.Can you teach someone?The question, can you teach someone to see you can if they want to?
They put themselves in the way of learning it.And then there's ways you learn it.So when we say Johnny Sexton learned it because he had to go through the club system.No, like, it just didn't happen as easy from he really wanted it.
that many other people would have had his talent and could have had his talent and have had his type of talent and didn't get picked on an academy or whatever.And that was it.
They went away and chose a different career because that's not what they wanted.And that's cool too. So it's not like, oh, there were failures and Johnny Sixton wasn't.That's what he was passionate about.
So back to your example of getting a call from the coach when we're in the car and the coach is asking you about the defence, you know it.They're all the signs to you that are saying, if you're really up for it, are you up for doing that?
And you're kind of going already in your head, like, am I really up for all of that?Do I really want that?
And the answer then was, No.And that was the really interesting part of the conversation yesterday was there was a guy who's in his last year in college and got diagnosed with dyslexia.
Went in school and he was in all the lowest stream classes and had this drive and determination.And in school, they had brought them over to London to meet lots of different companies, which I thought was really cool.
They didn't have that when I was in school.And he was like, I want to be here.I want to be in the Goldman Sachs.I want to be. they were like, you're gonna need to get a college education.He's like, I'm not gonna get there.
I just, I'm not gonna get there.And he ended up, well, he ended up getting there, but in how he did it, it was he got himself assessed.He found that he was dyslexic.Then he got extra dispensation.He then got extra points as leaving.
Then he did like a backwards way to get into a course.He then did an internship.And it was just, it was, I mean, I could see the parents just being so inspired
any of their kids who are in any way neurodiverse, I could just see them lighting up, being like, oh, there's hope here, you know?But it was the drive that this guy had was what really struck me.
So there's an answer to a question, can you teach it to someone who looks unteachable?Absolutely, because you want to.
And what that was one of the parents asked that is like, because he had been kind of told all his life through the education system that
you're not gonna amount to much in a traditional sense because he can't do X, Y, and Z. Whereas he has, he just used what he had as a superpower and went to find it.But one of the parents asked, like, did you always have this drive?
I could kind of see her saying, oh God, I don't know, does my son have that drive that you have?And where did that come from?Was that kind of a chip on her shoulder?
And it was an interesting question because he was saying, I've always been pulled towards what I'm interested in. There's a bit of a chip but it's mainly what pulled towards what I'm interested in and what I want for my life.
So have we answered the question can you teach it?
I think can you teach an old dog new tricks?You absolutely can.If you still have his up for it like that. So you can teach her if you create the right environment and it's the right thing, if it's what someone wants to be doing.
You can create the right environment for someone who really doesn't want it. And someone could tell you they want it, but they'll show you in different ways.That's the difference.So that's why I said to you, was that for you?
And you're saying, you show in different ways.We hear stories now of kids demanding to get a this, in a good way, demanding, saying, can I get to it?Can I do it?Because this is what they want, and they're putting themselves in the way of it.
And they'll pay a price for it.They'll miss a holiday.They'll do a whatever. Whereas in the case of can you teach someone to see something, is that player willing to do stuff?Is that player willing to put themselves out for it?
They may say they are, but they'll prove it by doing it, by putting themselves out. And you see it from a work point of view, you see it all the time.It's not like, are you willing to do extra and stay late hours and do stuff?
It's like, where do you put yourself?We see it all the time.We have examples all the time.You're telling me about people you're meeting, you're coaching with.I see it all the time.
You see people who are just going above and beyond just to learn a bit more, who are connecting outside of their area, who are staying in touch with the grad group they joined the business with. You know, you say like, you know, for what?
And it's not like that they're mis- or mis-associable.
It's like they're doing it and, you know, and you know, we're talking like some of the people you've come across in the last couple of years at Grad and we can see them two years in now, just they're connected and they're starting to do well and they're starting to get promoted.
Why?Because their name crops up in other places because people, because they've connected and they stay connected. You know, so, yeah.Interesting, isn't it?So we'll hear more about your talk.
I'd love to hear more about that next session, because then we'll bore people to death at this stage.
This is as quiet as you've ever been on a podcast.What's it going to sound like?
Well, I just, you know, a couple of things you were saying there, like you were talking earlier and you were like, oh, that's a stupid thing to say or will bore people to death.It's like.I don't think.Did I say a stupid thing?Yeah, you did.Yeah.
And like, because I'm here listening, do you know what I mean?And.
I don't think... I didn't tell you, you said the stupid thing.
No, no, no, you said you.
Oh yeah, that's fine, that's fine.
No, but that's what I'm saying, that that's not grand.
Like, you know, we got to practice what we preach and we got to speak, I think, nicely of ourselves.Do you know what I mean?
And like... And if I catch myself saying something stupid, that I can't say that it's stupid.That to me is just common sense and cop on. You know, anyway.
Well, like, yeah, I mean, if you misspeak or you say something, you can just say, actually, you know what, I'll actually, I take that back.I say this, you know, like, and you know, like I think saying, oh, we'll bore people to death.
I'm like, well, actually, I don't know.I think of like NLP and stuff and the importance of priming people for not, oh, we'll finish this now because we don't, you know what I mean?
It's more like, I want to prime you because that was interesting or there was something there that.Yeah, good call.Yeah, I think, I think like the few things that come out of that for me are, are the really wanting something, you know?
And, you know, I think we had Fiona English on talking about purpose. And last night they shared a book called Your Path to Purpose.
And it can seem like a really highfalutin thing, but when I was telling my story last night, I fell into sales and then tech sales because someone in my rugby club saw that.
Oh, you're good with people and you have a bit of emotional intelligence maybe.And so ended up being in sales in insurance and software for five or six years, seven years. and was really successful as an individual contributor salesperson.
And when COVID happened and it felt like the world was ending, it made me ask myself at one point, OK, what do I want to do with this life and where do I want to be?
Because being in Vancouver, I was very far away from my family and I was very far away from a lot of things that I hold value in.It really made me ask those questions, really difficult questions.And
I think part of the theme of the talk last night was in all of our journeys there was trials and tribulations and oh did this course and then switch to this course and then did this for a few years and then switch to this for a few years and I think the whole idea was to show parents that it can be okay that there's circuitous ways to things and
maybe the more you're unconsciously pushing in one certain direction, you might elongate that journey for your son, maybe.
And as well as putting all the traditional options in front of you, here are some different options to think of if you think your son maybe doesn't fit into those traditional models.And
And yeah, I think, you know, your story about Ron O'Gara giving that talk and, you know, the really talented player he has.I think it's, you know, we all, I think, respect Ron O'Gara as a coach, what he's achieved and what he's done.
And it's kind of reassuring to hear that he's asking those questions as well.
He was brilliant.And as a person, he was brilliant because, again, part, a huge part of what he did was like, novel that is I'm making up on the fly.
And there was a laugh, and again, because of the type of guy he is, he said, what are you laughing at?I didn't say that as a joke.I'm not trying to be funny.I'm not here to entertain you in that kind of way.It's like, I am making it up.
I'd be bullshitting you if I said anything else. You know, I'm playing, I'm doing my best to play what's in front of me and beyond that and beyond that.Like I'm looking to see, can I play beyond that?
And that's what has been so impressive about his coaching career in particular, you know, going down to New Zealand, going to France, getting involved with other teams.It seems like he has a master plan. but maybe he's just following his nose.
And like, that's what I was saying in my talk yesterday was, you know, I went into UCC because I got a rugby scholarship and I didn't make it to the Leinster Academy.So maybe I'll get into Munster.
But then after being in UCC, realizing, oh, I wasn't sitting at the back lectures anymore.I was sitting at the front of lectures.
And I got involved in the debating society and the Hispanic society, and then end up walking the Camino and kind of had this whole identity shift of, oh, I'm actually interested in other things than what I had
been pigeonholed into, and I'm not pointing any fingers who was pigeonholing me.It was the scenario, myself, all the things, what was cool.And I said, oh, and I joined the debating society, and I did that for a year.
And we debated in Oxford and all over the UK and Ireland.And I was like, oh, that really serves me well in my job now because I'm speaking in front of groups all the time.
But I didn't know then when I was doing debating that it was going to stand to me in all the talks I do now.And now I've been a wedding celebrant twice.So thank God I did that debating.
And I remember the first time in the debating society in UCC, we were preparing for We were preparing for a competition.It was my first competition.I think it was with SOAS University in London.And we had a mock debate and I choked.
I got up and we were meant to speak for seven minutes.And after two and a half minutes, I got that feeling and maybe many people experience it.Sweaty, mouth dry, blanked, went really red.
And I sat down after two and a half minutes and it was the most terrifying thing afterward.And I remember emailing them a few days later being like, I can't do the event.
And the person who was doing the new entrant debate said, I think you're actually brilliant.I think you can do this.And I pulled through and I ended up doing debating all that year and got a lot out of it.
And we got far in really some competitions with me and my debating partner.Shout out to Katie.
And having had that experience has allowed me to speak in front of groups for the last 10 years, whether it's spoken word poetry, whether it's doing a wedding, whether it's being with you running a workshop or doing talks back at the school, it's given me that kind of built up the resilience of, right, I know if my heart's beating really fast and my mouth gets dry.
That's normal.And I know what kind of preparing I need to do for a talk that I feel comfortable enough to have the preparation done, but also be able to speak off the cuff as well.That's where I'm at my best.
And that's kind of what I love about the podcast as well is we have a little chat beforehand and we warm up and we kind of have an idea what we're going to talk about, but we also let it happen in a circuitous way.
And I think that's the beauty of when we have guests on as well.That's where the magic is.So all that has kind of led to this point.But as Seamus Heaney says, each destination wasn't a point of arrival. but was a stepping stone.
And Ava said that in her episode.You know, I'm not saying, oh, it's all led me to this point.And now I'm working with my dad and I'm doing a coach and something I've always dreamed of doing.
And we have a podcast that just been nominated for three awards in the Irish podcast awards.So shout out to Ciarán for nominating us, I think.And we're starting to get some votes.But like, I've made it very clear in my talk that like,
I'm in the middle of my journey here.This isn't... I'm not the finished article coming here telling you how it is.I'm just telling you my story and my journey and...
you know, not only did I share my own story, but I asked my sister and I asked you and mum, what would you have liked to hear as a parent?Or what would you have, I asked Sally, what would you have liked mum and dad to have known then, you know?
And afterwards, the guy who organised it said, oh, thanks for putting so much thought into the talk.But like, I wasn't sitting there googling and researching.I just said what I'm really good at.
And I talked to people around me and asked what they would like to hear. And that seemed like it was a lot of research and it was, but it didn't feel like it for me because I just got to talk to people who I loved.
And that was the same of doing one of the weddings this year was I met with both the bride and the groom's parents and had coffee with them.And it made the ceremony a lot more special.
And it seemed like, oh, you've put so much thought and effort into that.But I'm just like, oh, that's what my strength is.And that's what I'm naturally good at.
If we go back to Belbin behavior analysis, resource investigator, I love connecting with people.And so I think that's kind of part of my message is, how can we help people to play to their strengths at an earlier stage more?
And actually they don't have to swim upstream for a lot of it, or at least they'll be playing to their strengths early doors and then they can fill in the gaps themselves, you know?So,
Yeah, I think that's kind of what comes up for me in the conversation.I think I'd like us to be conscious of that as we put out what we're putting out, that there's value in what we're doing.
So, thanks for listening. Well, there you have it.Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Essential Training Podcast with me, Brian Kingston, and my dad, Ian Kingston.
As dad says, hope it brought something up for you and gave you a chance to reflect on your own work and your own life.We'll see you again next Thursday.
And as always, we're open to any feedback or suggestions you might have, what you liked about it, what you think could be better, maybe some suggestions for guests. suggestions for topics as well.
So thanks a million for listening and we will see you or you'll hear us next week.
Sign in
