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Welcome to the off-menu podcast, taking the lasagna sheets of conversation, the bolognese of humour.You've done this one, surely.Alright, well, just that, then.Yeah, see, I've not done that, have I?
I've not done lasagna without any of the bechamel or cheese.Though you've not, to be fair.So, so, haha.Just lasagna sheets and bolognese, and the lasagna sheets are raw, so enjoy that.
Enjoy that.That's Ed Gamble.My name is James Acaster.Together we own a drink restaurant and every single week we invite a guest and ask them their favourite ever starter, main course, dessert, side dish and drink.Not in that order.
And this week, our guest is... Rick Astley!Rick Astley, of course it is!Legendary singer.
Musical artist.Yes, absolutely. Um, everyone knows Rick Astley.I mean, obviously, he's a massive hit, never gonna give you up.Yeah.
But also, a recent, like, lovely, like, uh, collective memory of all the people who went to Glastonbury went to see Rick and Blossoms do a set where they covered Smith songs.Yes.
He is well-loved across the nation, James.Extremely well-loved.He's also got one toe dipped in the world of food and drink as well, which might come up.So, yeah, it's that side, yeah. Rick's book, Never, is out on the 10th of October.
That is published by Macmillan and it is, as it describes, James, the autobiography of Rick Astley.Yes, covers struggles with fame and everything in between.Absolutely.
Looking forward to reading that, looking forward to meeting Rick, but we will kick him out of the restaurant.If he picks a secret ingredient that we have previously agreed upon, he will not be allowed to Rickroll our podcast.Yes, true.
And the secret ingredient this week is... Seven Up. Because we never gonna give him seven up.
We're never gonna give you seven up, Rick.Is that good?I think that's great.I think it's good.I think it's one of the best ones you've come up with ever.Yeah, I think so, yeah.Because if he says seven up, and we go, never gonna give you seven up.
He'll go, ugh, right, and then we'll go, no, get out.Yeah, no, really.We're not ever gonna.Yeah, we're never gonna.We're pretty disgusting.Yeah, yeah.I think you're out.I think that would be funny.
I personally don't mind 7-up or Sprite.You know, I don't have a preference between the two.
7-up.7-up.I think it's softer.I think Sprite is more aggressive with the bubbles.Yeah, and you've got a soft mouth.I've got a soft mouth and you've got to treat it softly.Yeah, you've got to baby your mouth, haven't you?Yeah, absolutely.
They'll baby my mouth.Fido Dido.Looking forward to meeting Rick.This is the off-menu menu of Rick Astley. Welcome, Rick, to the Dream Restaurant.Thank you.It's nice to be here.
Welcome, Rick Ashley, to the Dream Restaurant.We've been expecting you for some time.
Some time.Okay.Yeah.Now's the right time.Let's do it.Now, it's always the right time when it happens, right?Exactly.Sorry to get philosophical so quickly off the top.
No, I like seeing this deeper side of you.Thank you very much.This is why you're a philosophical man.It's always the right time when it happens.Indeed.I'll go with that.That sounds like the title of an album, doesn't it?Yeah.
We could do an album together.
We could. You play drums, don't you?I play drums?Yes, yes, I've just thought of you.
Ed plays the bassoon.I'm grade 2 bassoon, so if you want that on there, do you think you could ever use a bassoon in your album?
Bassoon's the long, it's like the one but it's got the very thin mouthpiece, hasn't it?
It's got the thin mouthpiece, it's like a massive oboe, basically.Massive oboe, wow.Massive oboe, that's another album title.
More experimental, Rick Astley's massive oboe album.You're in the Dream Restaurant, what does it look like to you, your Dream Restaurant?
Well, it's actually on a beach.My family and I have spent quite a bit of time in Italy on holidays over the years.And I love, you know, anywhere to go on holiday, to be honest.I'm just happy to be on holiday.
But when I think about holidays, we went to Sardinia a lot for 10 years straight kind of thing.My wife and I have been to Puglia quite a few times now.
And I just, there's something about Italy and being on a beach in Italy and eating that really makes me happy. I think because also, I know it's a well-trodden thing to say that you can eat well anywhere in Italy, but there is some truth to it.
I've eaten badly in Italy as well, by the way, over the years, but generally speaking you can go in like a petrol station on the motorway and eat well in Italy, you know?
So yeah, it's on a beach and we're looking at, could be the Adriatic, could be the Med, I don't mind.I'll go either way.
And yeah, I think that gives me a real sense of lovely comfort and kind of like relaxation, I think is a good way of putting it as well.
So is it like a sort of restaurant set up on the beach or are you talking about eating directly?
No, it is a restaurant, yeah, it's definitely a restaurant with tables and chairs and the whole thing and yeah, yeah, for sure.You're not sitting on the sand?No, it could even be in a little harbour actually.
There's a little place that we've been to a couple of times down in Puglia and the food's just amazing. And even though it's like this little, tiny bit touristy, but not, you know, most of the time it is Italians in there.
And again, that's the dream, isn't it?You want to go where, you know.You want to feel like you found the spot.Kind of, yeah.And it's totally unpretentious, but the food's amazing.And yeah, I kind of feel that's my comfort zone, I think.Nice.
And when you're on holiday on the beach reclining, you might want to read a book. Indeed!
Absolutely incredible James.Yeah?Pretty good?You know we're only what, 12 series in?And I think you're getting the hang of this interviewing stuff.
Finally started to understand segways and how promo works.
And the need to actually promote the thing that the person's here to promote.
Often, Vic, you have no idea how many times we'll be like, I start going, so still a Spark Them Water and then Ben has to go, excuse me, sorry.
I get it, I do get it, but it is also a weird thing I think because the world of podcasts has changed things so much.
You know, we're having a chat right now and obviously there's a focus to it because of the food side of it and everything, but it's also very often I think I've kind of like meandered through podcasts a few times where you think, what was that for?
Do you know what I mean?You're one stage removed from having a pint in the pub and chatting to people and once in a blue moon you actually know the people as well.
You know, you mentioned Rob Brydon before and I've met Rob a bunch of times and stuff and I did his podcast and it was kind of a bit like we should have just done it in a bar.
Do you know what I mean?That would be weird if you're having a drink with your friend in a bar and he just pulled your book out and went, so let's talk some more about this please.
True, but I think it's kind of taken some of the kind of like, just the thing about when you do interviews for stuff and you're basically selling something.
You can dress it up any way you like, whether you've got a new record or you've done an autobiography and it's like, I'm here to sell it.And it's like, it is a bit weird that.
you know, on a human level that is a bit weird and I think that podcasts have sort of taken the edge off that a tiny bit because you're talking about a lot of stuff and you meander and you get, you know, but I am here to sell a book, yeah.
I remember as a kid getting disillusioned, just suddenly realising that everyone on Parkinson happened to be on there when they were about to sell something.
I was like, hold on a second, because the person last week started talking about their new album as well.I thought we just wanted to hear about them, they're interesting people.
It is weird, but then again, like I say, it's a process I think.It's like, You've made a record, you want people to hear it, you know.I don't think anybody's ever walked out of a studio going, great, I hope no one hears that.You know what I mean?
It's just not what, you know, and the only way of doing that is letting the wider world know, so.
And vice versa, if you're going on a chat show, you need something to talk about, you just rock up, how you been?Not doing much. the house.So, never is the autobiography.
Yes, it is.Yeah.And I think the publishing world loves an autobiography with a one word title.There it is.And obviously, because of Never Gonna Give You Up, which is my biggest song, my first song.
And it's sort of, it's got this place in my life that just totally dwarfs everything else, really.It's a weird thing to not even admit that, because I can admit it easily.
But it's just, I guess, to own it, that you've got this song that's a bit of a kind of a... I don't know, I don't want to be negative about it, because it's been amazing to me, that song, but it's kind of like it's just overshadowed everything.
So I kind of... and it was my idea to call it Never, and I just kind of thought, you know, I said it's my idea, it could have been my wife's idea, actually.It was our idea, let's say that.
And again, it's come up quite a few times about, do you want to do a book?And I've kind of said, nope. And for years I've said no, and I think... So the title isn't what you used to respond to people?Yeah, well, yeah, never.
No, but I have sort of shied away from it, really, for a lot of reasons.I'm 58 now, and I have lived a bit.
I've got a 32-year-old daughter who just got married and stuff, and I kind of feel that it's not just, I was in pop music for a few years, here's a book. I feel there's a bit more of a life to tell kind of thing.
I think a lot of it was partly doing like some of the things that happened last year when we played Glastonbury and stuff like that, that I kind of just walked away and thought, wow, that was an amazing moment for me personally.
But also I think in the space of a career and sort of go, you're 58 and then now letting you play Glastonbury.That's a weird, I wouldn't say it's a bookend because I'm not finished just yet, hopefully.
But it's a weird, there's just a lot of weird things going on in the last few years, I think.
that have made me think, wow, I bet people might actually have an interest to read my side of that, rather than just see it in the Daily Mail or whatever, you know?
Yeah.Yeah.Well, I mean, like, I mean, a couple of things there, like for one, like the song, I don't want to hear someone who's just released that song do a book about what it was like to have a hit single like that.Yeah.
But you must have had such a change in relationship to it.Totally.Over those decades that I do want to hear about that because I think that's a way more interesting thing to like, yeah, to be told about and to learn
Yeah, I think obviously that song came out in 1987, if we just think there wasn't even the internet at that point.And ironically, it's had another life on the internet.It's just made me think sometimes to own being grateful.
And also, and this might seem a bit pompous, I don't know, but to just sort of like try and enjoy life a bit more.Because I think when it was happening, when I was young, 21 and having the first couple of records and stuff,
You do, I don't take it for granted, but you do take it a bit more in your stride because you've got nothing to judge it against.So you just, everything's normal, even though it's completely abnormal because you don't know anything else.
But once you get some distance away from it, you can kind of go, my God, how lucky you were and how amazing that certain people you met and certain situations you found yourself in. And where I am right now, being 58, I'm pretty happy, to be honest.
I have my moments, obviously, like everyone does.I'm only human.But I'm kind of happy.I have to be grateful for that, I think.
There's something to be said, though, I think, for that attitude, when it's all based on this one big hit single that happened so early in your career.I think that's happened to a lot of other people who've really resisted that.
and have sort of almost thrown their toys out the pram a little bit and gone, no, please stop.Please stop talking about that.Whereas you've taken it all in your stride and you have this attitude of gratefulness.
Yeah, but I think also partly because I had quite a long gap away from it all.And so I kind of packed it all in with my late twenties.Our daughter had just been born and I don't know, I kind of say I hated the music business.
It's a bit strong, but I kind of hated the music business really. because it's a freaking business, you know, and I hadn't really started perhaps in the way that I really truly wanted to.
You can get disillusioned when something like that happens and maybe not want to be around it.
Yeah, and I just think the business itself, talking about selling stuff, Jesus Christ, I mean, I used to go to do a TV show in whatever country, and it would usually be a different country every day, for months on end.
On the one hand, that sounds exciting, but you guys have been around stuff like that.It isn't.And you can fool yourself and pretend it is, and you can smile in a smash hits photograph for so long before you just want to kill someone.
And I don't want that to come across as ungrateful, because I'm not.I'm extremely grateful.But I also think just on a human level, you know, some people are more cut out.I'm a miserable northerner, do you know what I mean?
It's really hard to pretend that I was happy, do you know what I mean?And I've seen other people, you know, and around that time as well, just manage it really, really well.And I don't know whether they're just really good at pretending.
Yeah, and they like being famous and they like all that sort of side of it But I think having a break and it was a very long break I'd kind of I never thought I'd do anything again in music to be honest that I'm done I think that really really helped and it's helped me appreciate even those times a lot more and remember them fondly rather than You know being miserable about it
So was it the second life that the song got on the internet that almost sort of brought you back to stuff?
It was weird because the timing was a weird thing.I actually, I met a guy in a pub.It was actually the Half Moon in Putney where it's a band venue really, a gig venue, yeah.
And I went there because some friends of mine had started a record label and their first artist that they signed was Natasha Bedingfield.
she was doing like a showcase or what have you for you know so there's a few different people and this guy is a massive promoter and he got talking to me and we got chatting and he kind of basically said why don't you go out and sing anymore and I said well I just don't want to do it really I'm done with that and I think it's done with me and you know
He said, no, no, no, you should go out and sing.Anyway, he not convinced me, but kind of laid it out for me.He said, look, go and sing anything you want.It doesn't have to be your old songs if you don't want.You can sing anything you want.
We don't have to make money.We don't have to do anything.Just go and sing.And if you don't like it, we'll shake hands and forget it.And if you do, we'll talk about it.So that's a well-trodden path.
But I ended up singing a lot of Frank Sinatra songs, because that's what my dad used to sing around the house.And I knew them all.And I kind of have always loved them. And I just went and did it sort of under the radar in tiny little venues.
And I loved it.I absolutely loved it.And I loved being on stage again because there was no record to promote.And I didn't do any interviews and I didn't do anything for it.I just went out and sang with a great band.
I did sing Never Gonna Give You Up at the end because I'd get lynched if I didn't.But it wasn't about that.And then I did a couple of other things.I had an offer to go to Japan and sing my old songs kind of thing.
And my wife and daughter made me do it because they wanted to go to Japan.And we stayed in an amazing hotel and we looked after and we had a week's holiday there afterwards and everything.
So after doing that as well, I just kind of thought, this isn't painful, it's actually quite enjoyable because no one sort of knows I'm doing it other than the people who came to the gigs.
And it's like, I wasn't being a pop star, do you know what I mean?I wasn't doing anything really. You're just remembering what you actually liked about it in the first place.Kind of, yeah.It was just different.It was just very, very different.
And there wasn't any connection to, well, like I say, like selling something.I didn't feel like, you know, I've said it loads of times, actually, that I could have been selling paint in the 80s.I could have been selling anything.
I just felt like I was going around going, buy this.It didn't feel that attached to music, even.Because most of the time, they didn't want you to sing live either.So you're going miming.
in Germany, Spain, Italy, Norway, what have you, and America eventually, and Australia, and all the rest of it, you're just going miming on a TV show.My brother could have done it. Do you know what I mean?
It's like, there's no relevance to anything that I ever started to do as a teenager to what I'm actually doing.
Weirdly, it would have been a better promo stunt to send your brother.
And just have him walk out every time and have them all go, hold on a second.That's a different guy.He's really tall, isn't he?Turns out it's your brother.
Hang on, it does sound like him.And also, it's down to me.If I want to play a cover of something, that's what we're doing.If you want to go to the bathroom, off you go.
You must have it that people quite like because like, you know, you did two sets at Glastonbury last year and one of them was you and Blossoms doing the Smiths covers.And that was a huge hit as well.
I mean, it's quite rare that someone has the kind of Glastonbury you had last year where they have two sets that everyone's talking about all the time.
And yeah, I mean, for the first half of the festival, everyone was just saying, did you see Rick Astley?It was amazing.And then the second half, everyone was saying, did you see Rick Astley and Bruce Lawson?
But people must surely also be quite up for hearing covers from you now as well.
Yeah, I guess.I mean, well, it's weird because I just really like doing it.And like when we rehearse, My band are amazing, by the way, and they can play everything without even thinking about it.They're all super annoying in that respect.
I just throw them a song and they go, yeah, whatever, and play it.I'm like, okay, right.But what's amazing about that also is that I have no fear about, so sometimes we'll just sit there and jam through songs for like 40 minutes.
and then I'll suddenly realise we've gone a bit far.Slipknot, we've gone a bit far.
Please do that.It's Ed's favourite band, literally Ed's favourite band.Oh is it?He would love it if you did Slipknot.
It's hard to play.It's hard to play.So you need nine people really.You need nine people and you need some like oil drums.You need all of that.
What's the one I push my fingers into my
yeah that is just i'd watch you sing an acoustic version that is that well yeah could do i think uh what was and i know we should get on with the men you benito i know we should go with it but i think what was nice what was particularly nice about that you asked me when is that there's a lot of us who really enjoy those smith songs and grew up with them and then more as he became the man he is now and we would never want to go and see him live
But this was a way of seeing those songs live and enjoyed it and being able to sing along to them again.It was like the Beyond Meat Burger, to use a reference that Morrissey would probably appreciate, actually.
It was like, oh, this tastes just like it, but without any of the inhumane stuff I don't agree with.That was what was nice about it, I felt.
I felt it was a lot of people going, I've really wanted to see these songs live and sing along with a field full of people, but I've made my peace with the fact that's never going to happen.And then it was a way of doing it.
You don't have to comment on it, Rick. You don't know what I just said. We always start with still or sparkling water.
Yes, yes.It's got to be still for me.I don't mind sparkling, but I just, if it's sparkling, I'd rather it was something else.If it's fizzy, I don't want water, do you know what I'm saying?Yeah, yeah.So, yeah, I'm easy.I'll go tap.
Not in every country in the world, but I'll go tap.
Not in every, also I'd imagine, so you're from Lancashire, right?I am indeed.So the tap water there is very good.
I mean, Mr. Steve Coogan, my God, has he got a bee in his bonnet about northern water? I mean, come on.
Yeah, I'm not denying that.
You don't have local pride for your tap water?
Yeah, probably do.I'm aware of being a professional northerner at times.And I haven't lived up there for like 30 odd years.My wife's Danish.I've spent more time in Copenhagen than I have you know, in the town that I'm from, do you know what I mean?
So it's kind of like... So I'm always still.To be honest as well, there's something about the carbonation of water, if you like, that is a bit... I don't think that helps with food.Because it fills you up, or it... It's just something about it.
And some of them are quite... They've got a taste to them, I think.A very definite sort of something.And I don't want that when I'm eating.
The water's to perhaps cleanse your palate a bit, but also just to keep you hydrated with the lovely wine we're about to drink.
Yeah, yeah, little sneak preview.So the tap water wouldn't be from anywhere in particular then?Because sometimes it's fun if the... I mean, what's Copenhagen tap water like if you've been... I mean, yeah, you can drink tap water there 100%.
I wouldn't think twice about it in most places.I think to be honest, it's to do with, it's when you're working especially, you're like, I'm very sensitive to not eating shellfish and stuff when I'm working.
I've only cancelled one gig in my life and it was in Australia.I had the wildest, and I've had food poisoning a few times, the wildest food poisoning ever. Talk us through it in detail.Well, we did soundcheck and we all ate chicken salad, right?
And then I did not feel very well and the room was like moving and everything was going really kind of like it was going into a very strange place and I went outside and found a metal lamppost and was hugging it and I thought there's something very wrong with me right now.
And then I just started throwing up like there was no tomorrow, like really bad.And if I could have sensed this was about to happen, I would have done something about it.
But I thought, I'll be fine, I'm going to throw up a few times and I'll get through it.Might have a couple of vodkas and I'll be fine, right?And then I really wasn't.I was beginning to get worried.
And then the audience was already in by this point and they made a bit of an announcement and said, I don't like, is there a doctor in the house or what?
But somebody quietly, you know, found a nurse and she came out to see me and she said, I think you should go to hospital.And at that point I started to get, cause I was off my tits at this point.I was like, I hadn't been drinking anything.
I was just hallucinating and I was full on, you know.
I really wasn't very well and they called for an ambulance and in the end the ambulance said look we just we can't do it we're not going to come for someone who's got food poisoning they were and then they weren't then they were and they weren't so they got a doctor private doctor and he injected me in the bum region with something
Sent me to the hotel and immediately went to sleep for like 12 hours, you know, so I don't know what it was he gave me or what have you.But I was really, really ill.And that's the only gig I've ever cancelled.
And so, and obviously it was chicken salad, so what can you do, you know what I mean?You can't avoid chicken salad, it's quite a, you know, regular thing.
But I think ever since that day, because that's pretty good going, only cancelling one gig in my life. And I've been really ill doing gigs by the way, like really ill, but that was something else.
That was like, that was on the edge, that one, you know.
I know, I know what you mean about like, suddenly getting paranoid about food if you've got a show that night as well.Yeah.Like if there's like an oyster kicking around or something, you're like, I'm not doing that.
No.Just in case.As we're going to get into, I like seafood of any description and pretty much any description.And I always, you know, I do love oysters and I love lots of things.But if you're gigging, it's just like, You know?
I will say it's rare that I'm doing a gig and there's an oyster kicking around.Come on.You heard Campbell.Well, that also sounds really dodgy, just an oyster kicking around.
Yeah, an oyster.And there's an oyster just on the road.
Yeah.So I'm never worried about that normally.No.Like, if I'm not working.No.I'm like, yeah, I'm sure it's absolutely fine.But just, I just know one day it's going to happen.Absolutely.Bite you on the ass.
Pop lobs or bread, Rick Astley?Pop lobs or bread?
Oh my god, I still can't get used to that.
There is no need for a poppadom in what we're about to, you know, and like most people say on this thing, yes, I like poppadoms and I like them when I'm gonna have an Indian or a takeaway or whatever, but no, we're gonna have bread.
And also because we're going pretty full on Italian in this place because remember we're on an Italian beach somewhere overlooking one of the seas, whichever one you want.
So if we're going to have bread at all it's going to be something Italian, something nice.
Which particular Italian bread are you thinking?
I don't really mind really.Italy's weird as we know, it's got lots of different kinds of bread.Some of it's awful and unedible and I don't know why they even put it out in a restaurant.It makes no sense whatsoever. Yeah, it's awful.
I think a lot of it's in the north, actually.It's just white bread with no anything in it.It's just awful.And they do that in English-Italian restaurants or Italian-English, you know, whatever.It's like, yeah, yeah, but we don't want that.
That's not the Italy we want.We don't want like proper rustic Italian bread.No, well, not the rustic.We want the rustic that is a certain part of Italy's rustic.We don't want that white bread with nothing in it.It doesn't mean anything to us.
I'd rather have the sticks in the plastic paper, you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, the breadsticks.So you're more thinking maybe a nice focaccia?
Yeah, something like that, yeah.Possibly with even a herb in it, you know what I mean?But it's got to have good olive oil.That's the thing, if you've got even reasonable bread, good olive oil, you're away, aren't you?
It's one of the things that I actually... Oh, it's going to sound like a right snob now.But my wife and I do this all the time, where when they pour you some olive oil and we just look at it and we go, That's disappointing, isn't it?
You know what I mean?Because it doesn't look rich enough and strong enough, you know what I mean?And then you taste it and you go, yeah, I knew that was going to be disappointing.
There's something very... earlier at the top of the episode, Rick, you described yourself as a miserable northerner.Yeah.And it's the idea of you looking at olive oil being poured out going, that's disappointing.
No, but come on, that's... I mean, we've all kind of stepped up our game with food, I think.
And obviously, some of your listeners perhaps are of an age where they've never known any other time where you couldn't just get everything all the freaking time.You just sat on the couch and sort of go, I want Thai.Well, I want this.
Well, I want Korean, but obviously I want North Korean.
You know what I mean?I think even, you know, I live in a good area for Deliveroo.I'd struggle to get North Korean cuisine, I think.I don't know.
And you're on the wrong delivery page there, love.But you know what I mean?And obviously I'm 58, and I grew up in a small town in the north, and it was like, it was not exotic.It really wasn't.And I think, it's not even mean spoil.
I sometimes feel it's spoil.I don't worry about it, I don't lose sleep over it, but I do sometimes wonder about where it's led us. that you can eat anything whenever you want.You know, you can have blueberries from Chile.And you know what I mean?
And you're like, hang on a minute.How did they get here?What is that?Does that make any sense?No, it doesn't.But we've got used to it.And I think at some point we're going to have to address that a little bit, you know?
Yeah, for sure.Yeah, I think so.But let's enjoy it.Let's enjoy it while we can.
Let's not think about it.Let's just enjoy it.Let's just ignore all of it.But I think the olive oil thing, maybe it's an age thing as well, I don't know, but it's like, just get into it, don't you, at some point.You guys must be into olive oil.
So what are you looking for when the olive oil's poured out?What would make you and your wife go lovely?
I want it to be dark.Dark.
Like some kind of, you know, and like, a bit like, you know, like oily.Like a proper, you know, I'll say oil in the sense of something you put in your car, viscosity, if that's the right word.
Somewhere you can really see it's like, oh, hang on a minute, hold the phone.And then when you actually taste it, you want that kind of kick in it, really kind of almost a bite in it.And I just hate it when it's just nothing.
It's just like, well, that's just, there's no point in putting my bread in that, you know?
what do you think i mean you're spending a lot of time imagine you saying that to a waiter there's no point putting your bread in that just not even doing it you spend a lot of time in copenhagen i believe that's the origin of the plate that's the first place we started putting olive oil directly onto ice cream and drizzling oh really is that in one of the like the nomoresque restaurants up there and all that yeah you kind of feel like everywhere now i went last year
for a couple of days and every ice cream place would offer sea salt and olive oil on the top if you wanted.
I don't know if that started in Copenhagen though.I think that might be an Italian thing.
But it's very in.You must know obviously that Copenhagen is in the last 10 years or whatever more has just become this
revolutionary food, because obviously it had the best restaurant in the world, number of years running, all the rest of it, and so many people who've gone through that restaurant obviously have started other places and da da da, and it is, our daughter lives there and we go there a lot obviously, I know my wife's there right now, and it is pretty amazing for food, it's pretty amazing for everything to be honest, you guys won't know this, but we have a couple of bars in London that we're involved with from one of the places called Micklehead, don't they know that?
I know you're involved in this one.
So anyway, so that's like the whole everything with food and just drinking and everything has really changed, I think.
I mean, I like the old school Danish food as well, to be honest, like open-faced sandwiches is still a big thing with me and stuff and the herrings and all of that.
We always have at Christmas, we always have a Christmas, well, we have a styling around the food that's all very, very Danish.Like, you know, they're big in pork.
I'm not so big in pork, to be honest, so Lina, my wife, normally kind of makes me something else.But anyway, and the crackling that's on it and everything. The Christmas potatoes we've heard about on this podcast before?
Well, they call them brun kartoffel, which is like Christmas potatoes.Is this like with the really sweet, yeah, with sugar around them?It's basically sugar, yeah.It's like white boiled potatoes, tiny ones, like little new potatoes almost.
And you literally, I mean it's obscene when you see it, you look at it and you just think that's a health problem right there.It's just a pan full of sugar and you just melt that down, put the potatoes in and they just become brown potatoes then.
And it is.That does sound amazing. Your dream starter?My dream starter is swordfish, but done... Oh, for God's sake.When you just slice it really thin.Calpaccio is what I'm after, yeah.
And again, I think I wouldn't say I would have that on every restaurant I've been to, but I think if you go to a nice one and you get the feeling, well, the olive oil was really good, so I might actually... Is it like a testing thing?
I think that's true, yeah.
But you go with the olive oil, if the olive oil is good, you're ordering the swordfish.
Kind of, yeah.And I would feel better about ordering the seafood as well and the everything, do you know what I mean?Because it's a marker, they've set a marker of like, this is, we're a good place and we know what we're doing, you know.
And it doesn't have to be swanky and posh, it's just, no, we really care about the food here and this is what we're doing, you know.Is it our first swordfish on the podcast? Good question.It must be one of the few.
Yeah, we haven't had it come up much.
Well, they have, they put it in pasta a lot in Italy, or certain parts of Italy anyway, they did in Sardinia a lot, linguine alla spada I think it's called, and it's just, it's got a very fish taste, but not to the point where it's, because fish and pasta for me is a bit of a weird one.
You know like salmon and spaghetti?I'm not saying I've never eaten it and I wouldn't eat, I would eat it tonight.If someone's made it and I've gone round theirs, I'm going to eat that and I'm fine with it. There's a bit of me going, are you sure?No?
No, I see what you mean.It doesn't feel like a match made in heaven, doesn't it?Salmon and pasta.It seems odd to me.
That seems like someone else's version of what should be going on spaghetti.Yeah.Prawns, sure.Yeah, prawns.Clams, sure.Boil.You hit the nail on the head there.But I mean, salmon and spaghetti.
I've definitely had it before and it was nice but I think it really comes down to what sauce they have with it.It's very creamy isn't it?Yeah yeah and then it's delicious and they've got that right there but like yeah I know what you mean.
I think I actually made something during lockdown that was a salmon pasta.Yeah I mean.And it obviously flakes up quite nicely when you're stirring it and you're like oh this is great.
But yeah on paper.Like I say if I saw it on a menu in the UK especially
or possibly in Italy I don't know but it wouldn't be what I'd go to but seeing the swordfish thing in a pasta and also I think perhaps I was thinking I've never seen this before I've probably seen it since but I hadn't seen it perhaps the first time we used to because we used to have it a lot in the same restaurant in Sardinia.
I kind of thought oh we're getting a bit of an insight to local do you know what I mean?
But is this in a pasta?This isn't in a pasta this is just as it is.
What goes over the top of it?It's olive oil.And sometimes there might even be possibly a tiny bit of onion or maybe even a tiny bit of garlic and stuff.But I think if it's nice enough I think you can just eat it the way it is.
Super light starter just to get you ready. The thing with carpaccio for me is that you've really got to be as thin as you can be, like a normal see-through kind of thing, and then it just takes on another level of loveliness, I think.
When it's fat carpaccio, who wants a fat carpaccio, do you know what I mean?That's just wrong, isn't it?
Yeah, that's just sashimi at that point, isn't it?Yeah, it's just weird.
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So your dream main course isn't too far from that?
No, no, because I've gone full Italian to be honest.We have a lot of memories being together in Italy and I kind of think, and I love Spain as well by the way, I think the food in Spain is just incredible, I think.
We did definitely have more holidays.We used to go on holiday with one particular family and we went to the same place, 10 years running kind of thing.
And our kids kind of were on this little beach where even if we weren't there, I know it sounds a bit weird now, but even if we weren't there, we felt they were safe.It wasn't a big sort of, you know what I mean?It was just like, it's okay.
I think there was always one of us there thinking about it. But it had that feel of it, almost like you're in a Enid Blyton book.Do you know what I mean?Those kids were always in danger.
Those kids were always having to face down criminals, Rick.That's an awful example.Those kids were in a lot of danger all the time.
They should have had supervision at all times.
Yeah, the Enid Blyton kids.
They probably did.They probably did.
They were investigating crimes left right and centre.I thought you meant the Enid Blyton kids had supervision.They didn't.They never did.
You meant your kids.Unbelievable.They were left with a dog.Yeah. Just very weird all of that, very weird.So, yeah, for a main, I've gone for spaghetti vongole, but with batarga on top.
Are you aware of batarga?No, I'm not.
I'm aware of the name, I don't think I know what it is, Rick.Well, I'm going to embarrass myself by not knowing what it is either, but I think what it is, is it's eggs from a fish that somehow gets, I think, compacted and then they shave it.Wow.
I'm just going to Google Batarga.Has anyone ever Googled on the actual thing that they brought in?
Normally we won't bend it, but I think it's fine to have you do it.
I've always got a couple of glasses of chardonnay in it.Batarga is salted cured fish roe.It is, yeah.I was pretty certain it was, by the way.
Because when you're just telling a friend about it, it's one thing, but when you're on a podcast with two gentlemen like yourselves, you think, Is that right?
And I've never really ever seen it other than in either an Italian restaurant that has a Sardinian owner or chef or connection.There's lots of people in Italy who don't eat it, I don't think.And we just kept seeing it.
So I tried it and I just went, oh my God.So what does it taste like?What does it do?It's very fishy. Yeah.But again, you know, this thing with fish and pasta and mixing the two things.
So Spaghetti Vongole, yeah, which is a very traditional and a good one of those, I think it's just amazing.I just love it.The clams and... Yeah, it's perfect on the water.
It just feels you're one with the sea and the whole, you know, but throwing the Batagor on top just adds this other dimension to it.And it just, again, I think it's fond memories.
I think it's happy memories of being on holidays with your kids when they're young and all the rest of it.
How do you feel about, because we've talked about Vongolev a couple of times.Harry Hill chose it.How do you feel about the admin?What do you mean?The shell admin.Oh, I think that's part of the joy.Yeah?Yeah.
Because I struggle with it, I don't know if you could tell.Because when I get a meal, I'm ready to just... I just want to eat it.I'm going straight in.
Well, I do know what you mean, and there are certain things, I'll try and think of one, there are certain things I think I just can't be bothered.I can't be arse-messing, I just want to eat the bloody thing.But with that, I don't mind.
It's a bit like when you have muscles, and do you do that thing where you use one of the shells to pluck out the meat of the... I don't do that.
Do you not do that?No, I mean I rarely get it and every time I do get it I get frustrated with the admin and I splash myself with the juice at some point because I'm so just trying to get it over and done with.
But yeah, the tongs using one of the shells
As the tongs to get the other one out?Yeah.I mean, it's quite cruel, really.Is it?Because this guy... Yeah, but there are... He can see his mate ripping his tummy out.
Well, they're dead, though, aren't they?Depends where you go. So that just reminds me of something while we're on a food conversation here for the podcast.Have you guys been to Japan?Yes.I've just got back.James is going next month.Oh, amazing.
Fantastic.Well, I'm sure you're going to love it.You must have loved it.I'm sure.Incredible.Yeah.So I've been a few times and back in the day in the 80s and stuff.And I remember the second time we went, first time was just promo and stuff.
Second time we went for gigs. And the promoter took us to this amazing restaurant in a town, I think, called Nagoya.So, you know, it's still a massive city, but one of the smaller cities, as it were.
We went to this restaurant and I basically think he was just taking the piss.Because we were given these bowls, like a soup, like a clear soup, but something was still alive swimming around in it.Wow.But didn't have the whole of its body to do so.
Like tentacles have been put away and things. And that was like a bit of a shock, so I didn't... and again I was 22, 23, do you know what I mean?
I wasn't... I'd travelled a bit by then and I'd eaten in a lot of places and stuff, but it was still... Nothing prepares you for that though, does it?That's nothing compared to what happened next.
So, they brought out these huge fish that were skewered, so they were in like a curve, an arc, you know, tail up and head up.
and the meat of the fish had been cut away from its body while it was alive and placed back on the fish so you were meant to eat it while it looked at you.
Oh my god, I mean look, I am not squeamish but I think that would put me off.I couldn't do that.
I mean, like your theory about if the olive oil's good, you know the rest of the meal's gonna be nice, when they brought you the little thing swimming around in the bowl, get out.
Yeah, let alone when you have to make eye contact with the thing you're eating.
Get out of bloody Marky Dessard's restaurant.Now I don't know whether that might even be a thing anymore and whether they're legally allowed to do it.I'm going back 35 years, so it's a while ago, more even.
But I remember just thinking, this is ridiculous.And I was kind of looking at all the other Japanese people thinking, are you going to eat this?Or is this... Crazy prank on them.Yeah.
And I've seen prawns cooked on the, on like a teppanyaki, you know, where they're still alive.
They just put them on the thing in front of you, you know, and I know lobsters go in the thing when you're not looking and they just put them in there, you know. I don't like all that.
Listen, don't get me wrong, I love eating food, I'm not vegetarian, I think about it sometimes and I do think there's an issue, like I said, with us, the way we are living at the moment can't really be sustained and all the rest of it, but yeah, it's a tricky one.
There's a step too far, isn't there?A little bit, yeah.I think we definitely have to at least stop making eye contact with the fish while we're eating it alive. Let's at least take that step.
Having said that, this is just reminding me of something else.
One of my passions in life has been skiing over the years and so I was on holiday skiing with some friends and it was a bit of an occasion and we needed to celebrate something so we went to this restaurant which again, I don't think is open anymore.
Not because of what I'm about to describe, I just think it's not open anymore.And it was called my father's farm, mom termed him on pear, whatever, and massive reputation, you know, Michelin stars, all the rest of it.
So we went, it's like a 15 course, but the building is a farm and animals, I'm not saying those animals necessarily, but in other words, pigs, ducks, you know, geese, cows are on the other side of glass.
beneath you and on the side of you, as you walk into the restaurant.So it's basically like saying, but I don't think on the one end there's nothing wrong with actually explaining this, especially to kids.
Because if kids just think that a slab of meat is just something, you know, they don't connect it to being an animal, that's a whole other issue again.But that was pretty...
That was a bit, you know, I mean, they weren't dragging animals out and butchering them, you know, but it was still very much like, you've just ordered this and that's one of those over there behind that glass.It was a bit weird.
Yeah, it's quite confronting, isn't it?
It's good, I mean, yeah, I'm all for it, but I think I wouldn't be able to hack it at the same time and maybe I should reflect on that.
Yeah, well I don't cook a lot.My wife's an amazing cook, an incredible cook and it's one of the main ways that she relaxes and I don't really love it.Does it stress you out?Yeah, if it's for anybody else, yes.
You know, I'm not averse to making an omelette or making something for myself, cobbling something together. But the reason I was mentioning this is that if someone said, right, there's a joint, there's an actual big piece of an animal, make it.
Or even a chicken.Getting a chicken out of its packaging from the supermarket and putting it in the oven is a bit like, wow.Do you know what I mean?Whereas when it's cooked and it's on your plate, it's just very different.
It is, yeah.And don't get those mixed up, Rick, otherwise you're going to have another one of those incidents.You're going to be cancelling more gigs.
Your dream side dish, Rich?Oh, sorry, yeah.Well, I'm going really traditional again.All the things I've chosen, I think, are pretty traditional in a beachside Italian restaurant.
So I'm going rocket and parmesan, which, you know, the thing with rocket as well, or arugula, as the Americans say, is when it's good, it's amazing, somewhat breathtaking.
And again, it's back to that thing of the very peppery sort of thing about olive oil sometimes where you go, oh, and it literally goes to the back of your throat and goes, oh my God, you know, and you kind of forget sometimes just how amazing it is.
Like, you know, we've all been having that as a salad for years now.But I remember as a kid, I say as a kid, a young man,
in an Italian restaurant and me thinking, oh well that's just some kind of leaf salad thing and eating it and going, Jesus, you know.It is a shock the first time you have rocket.Yeah.It's mind-blowing.And also parmesan's a big thing in our house.
Oh yeah?Oh yeah.My wife doesn't really eat dessert.She doesn't eat sweet things particularly.You should leave her.
But at the end of dinner in restaurants, she very often will say, I don't want a cheese board, I don't want a whole selection or what, just give me a big block of parmesan and a nice glass of red wine.
I mean that is one of the ballsiest moves I've ever heard of, being in a restaurant and going, give me a big chunk of parmesan.She is a ballsy woman, believe me.She is.That's a real curveball, isn't it, for the people working there?
Maybe, but I think there's an element of... It depends, doesn't it?It depends what kind of a restaurant you're in.Sometimes, and even some of the ones which do have like a Michelin star, and they're like very nice to it.
Sometimes I think they are more accommodating than people would think they are sometimes.Not always, sometimes it's like, that's what we make, fuck off if you don't want it that way.
But sometimes they kind of get it that people go, you know what, I just, is there any chance? Did she go through the rigmarole of looking at the dessert menu and going, hmm, I'll just have a big block of parmesan, please.
She'll have a scan of it and she will have a spoonful of mine or someone's, but she's not really, it's just not where she's at at all.There's pretty much nothing in the world of dessert that she's interested in.It just doesn't do it for her.
Mind boggling. I'm going to try that.
Yeah, I'm sure you will.Because I love just a big block of parmesan.
That's the red wine with it especially.
This is what we've learned today.And I don't know what order these episodes are going to go out in that we've recorded today.It's going to be Rick first.This is a flash forward in that case.
But a guest earlier said, and if the listeners can figure out which guest this was, make sure you tweet the podcast and Benito will send you a signed chopping board. said that Christopher Walken said to always start a meal with parmesan and red wine.
Christopher Walken wasn't our guest.
Our last guest said that Christopher Walken said in an interview to always start a meal with just a block of parmesan and red wine.
And that's never come up in the podcast before.You're literally our next guest and you said parmesan and red wine is great.Weird, that is very strange.
And I have parmesan in the fridge at home. and god knows I've got some red wine.God knows.I'm gonna do that tonight.Do it.I went to a restaurant once called Beast.
I don't know if it's still there but the starter was literally, it was quite early on in the life of this restaurant and there was only one starter and they brought you like a huge chunk of parmesan that you could absolutely never finish and a knife and you just hacked off bits of parmesan.
Is that here, in London?Yeah, yeah.It's run by the, you know, Goodman Steakhouses.I think it's one of their places.
It rings a bell, that name, but I can't, I don't know whether... I think it's changed a bit now, but it was like, parmesan and then steak and like, I think lobster.But it was like a very ridiculously over-the-top restaurant.But yeah, I loved it.
Well, your dream drink then.So we got that nice salad.
It's a Chardonnay.It's an Italian Chardonnay.It's Antinori, basically.And the reason I'm sort of like stumbling over saying that and everything is because of how expensive it is.It's ludicrously expensive.
And it wouldn't be an everyday, you know, but I'm in my favorite restaurant, dream restaurant, you know. all the rest of it.Why not?
Again, you don't see it everywhere, but when you see it, and I had a very weird experience in Italy recently, and that was that, it's a long story, but I was picking, I don't fly that often, so I drive everywhere, like, you know, I've driven to Budapest a few times, and southern Portugal, outer northern Norway, and everywhere.
I've driven across America a few times, and around Australia, because I don't like flying that much.Yeah.I do do it, obviously, but I'm saying I cut it down. And I like doing the drive as well.
And also I think I've done an awful lot of traveling, especially when I was younger, where I was on planes all the fricking time.And you arrive somewhere and you go, Oh, okay.I'm in the back of a car and I saw this and I saw that.
And then I've been to Rome, but I have got no fricking clue. about Italy or what it's like or anything.And driving there, you get a sense of it because you just stay in places and do stuff.Anyway, on with the story.
So I'm going to pick my wife and a friend up in the airport in Rome.So the night before, I just stayed outside of Rome on the coast, actually, funnily enough, in a little place, not a fancy place at all.It was just me.
And very often, I'll just think, I'm not going to spend a fortune.I'm only going to be there to sleep.So da-da-da.And I go downstairs, and I went into the little restaurant they had.
And it was, it was like, there was nothing, it was lovely, but there's nothing amazing about this place, not what you're expecting. I'm looking on the wine list and I see this wine and I sort of think, no, no, no, hang on a second.
And it has got a younger brother by the way, which is about half the price.I kept reading it going, I think what they've done is here, it's the younger brother, but they've written it like it's the big brother.
So I said, can I have a look at that wine?And he said, yeah.So over he goes.Or I think maybe I went to their wine cabinet and had a look at it.They had like a glass, you know.
I thought, no, that's pretty much, that's, you know, and it was literally, it was stupid, the price of it.
It was like, so much so that when I told my wife and her friend the day after, they said, well, perhaps we should just go back and buy everything they've got.And I felt guilty about it, actually.
I kept thinking, no, no, should have told them, should have told them.And anyway, whatever, it's been a dilemma ever since. But it is phenomenal, this wine.And my favourite wine anyway is Chardonnay.
And Chardonnay's got a bit of a bad rep I think over the last 15 years.I was like, oh Chardonnay, I don't want to drink that.Footballers call their kids Chardonnay.I don't want to drink that nonsense.
Which is absolute bollocks, because the finest white burgundy you can possibly have is Chardonnay.
people just don't call it that necessarily up front because it's sort of frightened everyone into thinking it's like, you know, do you know what I mean?
Well there was that ABC thing for a long time, anything but Chardonnay.
And it's sort of got a bit of a bad rep and it sort of annoys me when I go into a restaurant and they don't have a Chardonnay by the glass, it really annoys me.
Because I'm like, you're reacting to that, you're not reacting to whether it's good or not.And we've travelled a lot in America and got a lot of American friends, and some of their Chardonnays are just unbelievable.
my daughter and quite a few of her friends and family friends have this thing about me liking buttery chardonnay.So much so that it's almost become ridiculous.
So that like if we're having a glass of wine like in Copenhagen and stuff, they're all looking at me waiting for me to go Now that's buttery.Is it buttery, Rick?You know what I mean?
It's become like this sort of thing.But anyway.That is such a classic dad bullying thing to pick up on, isn't it?
You find the one bit of happiness your dad has, and then you destroy it.And then you make it a thing of mockery.
Oh, it's buttery, is it?No, but also to be fair, I think she and some of her friends have been grateful the fact that, you know, I bring
nice bottles of wine to drink and stuff and I've pushed them in certain directions and stuff and I think over the years, I love red wine by the way, I really do, but obviously with the things I've chosen I wanted a white and this is just phenomenal, it's just absolutely gorgeous.
And I thought beer might come up, we might be in for a beer.
For sure, I do love beer but I think
I think for me beer is something I drink in a bar or a pub or at home, but if I'm in a restaurant, I think the connection of food, depending on what it is, if you're having a burger or you're having something that's a bit more, yeah I get it, but if you're going to eat like swordfish and pasta and you know, I'm going wine every day, you know what I mean?
That wine sounds absolutely delicious.It is amazing.I almost toyed with the idea of bringing one and then I thought, You motherfucker.Yeah, I know, but you see- Why are you dangling that in front of us now?
Why tell us that you didn't bring us some of the expensive wine?
God damn it, Rick Astley.
I know, but I did think about it, and then I thought, I thought, no, it's not the last thing you're gonna wanna do because- What the- What, drinking extremely nice wine?
Yeah, alright.Are you out of your tree?Okay, alright, well.
Also, the next thought was probably, no, I'll just save that for myself and my family.
But one of the things about wine, and also the thing you mentioned, the beer thing, because of the Mickeller guys and everything, is that when I grew up as a kid, wine was not really a thing.Nobody I knew had wine at dinner.
You know, I'm from a small northern town and blah blah and all the rest of it, you know, where we eat coal and all that. It's just, it just wasn't on there, you know?
And I think I've loved the fact that I've been introduced to that from being about 21 really, because the weird thing was when I had that first record out and everything, it was a really big hit at the time.
I know it's had its life and everything, but so I got taken to restaurants that were just off the scale as a 21 year old and probably didn't really appreciate it.
And also because we were kind of doing it a lot, because I think I came to realize that somebody at the record company think, great, he's at a number one, so I can take him to this restaurant or whatever.
And we were going there because they wanted to, not because I wanted to. I would have much rather gone out and had a burger and a few beers and hung out with younger people at the record label.
But obviously the CEO and the God knows what would be taking you out because they're like, well, we can go to, you know, whatever.The one upside of that, I think was, and I wasn't a wine drinker at all.
And it took me quite a while, I think, to actually get into it.And also I would say, and this is a real knobby thing to say, but it's just the goddamn truth. if you've got a bit of money, you can take that further.
And you can buy nice wine that's not that super expensive.And we, you know, drink wine at home on a more regular basis that isn't super expensive for lots of reasons.
And that is, I think, one of the main ones is that if you find something that you like, it's, again, it's a slightly different thing.I mean, I've got friends who drink certain kinds of wine.I'm like, I'm not drinking any of that muck.
I'd rather have a cup of tea.I am not drinking that.
Again, I'm imagining all this happening in your actual life where you go to a friend's house and they're all drinking wine and you're like, put the kettle on.I'm not drinking that shit.
And if you think I'm dipping my bread in that, you're sorely mistaken.
No, but wine is a really weird thing because you become accustomed and it doesn't have to be super expensive and upscale and the rest of it.You just sort of get a taste for what you like.
It's a bit like when you're on holiday and something locally tastes great and you bring it home and it doesn't. And it's like, yeah, I think your taste buds are informed by other stuff.
It's not just, you know, and there's a Chardonnay we drink at home all the time.It's about, I think it used to be about 10 or it's probably 12 quid now from one of the big wine distributors that we all know.And we drink gallons of this stuff.
Because it's just like, it's got this, it is French, it's a Chardonnay, blah, blah, blah, but it's not produced in Burgundy.It's a long story.How boring is this?This is boring.No, I love it.Okay, whatever.Anyway, so it was an experiment.
I read about it.It was an experiment.I think it's Louis Latour.I'm pretty certain it is.And he had an experiment.I don't think he exists as a person anymore.I think it's long gone. I'm going to produce it somewhere else.
I'm going to, you know, produce a Chardonnay, but not in this region.And equivalent wise, in other words, what I'm trying to say is for 12 quid, you're probably drinking 30 pounds worth of wine.
Yeah.Because it's slightly different geographical location.
And so it's like, it's a bit, a bit like the champagne thing, right?If you like your bubbly whatevers, you don't have to drink champagne to drink a nice one anymore.I mean, England's making really good sparkling wine and everything.
I was going to call it champagne, but you're not allowed to.You're not allowed to.Fuck off.You're not allowed to.Do you know what I mean?God, it bugs the ass off me that.Anyway, there you go.
I definitely want to make like a documentary about you at a dinner party. fucking cold champagne if I wanted to.Come on, fuck off.Wine I'm not drinking that much.
Quite often if you can buy wines produced near to some of the massive vineyards that are literally next door, literally all that separates them is a fence, the terroir is exactly the same, the weather's obviously exactly the same, it's gonna taste as good and it's like a quarter of the cost.
I would agree with that wholeheartedly, but I've had one or two experiences that have literally melted my mind, right?
And this is, we have a couple of friends who we didn't know that well at the time, because I'm going back quite some years, I'm going back 15, 16, maybe more years, around at theirs for dinner.
And Peter, his name is, I can say Peter, I'm not gonna tell you his last name, but Peter.Seriously into wine, and my God, you know, and I've been so embarrassed bringing over bottles to their house going like,
Oh Jesus, I should have, you know, pushed the bar out a bit more.But he's not like that at all.He just wants people to taste it.And he's been collecting wine all his life, kind of thing, almost, if you like, and invested in it.
Again, not mega wealthy, not like, sort of like, just loves wine, just loves wine, and would rather drive a car that's older, but drink this wine, do you know what I mean?Or whatever it is.
And my wife and I have been at theirs for dinner, and this other friend who's been round, right? and they have brought bottles of wine from Burgundy, white Burgundy.And I think I would imagine that's harder to do than red wine, to be honest.
They've brought them, and the other person has told them the year, the vintage, and what exactly it is.
And we're talking about the fields that, when you go on one of those wine tours or one of those wine trips, as you say, well, it's that field over there that produces that, and the field over there produces that, and they are different, and da-da-da-da, and all the rest of it.
And those mothers have actually told the other one what they've served.And I've just gone, what are you doing?How have you done this?How do you do that?And they say, you have to drink an awful lot of wine.
Take a sip and go, it's from that field.
And literally the field it came from, because they've said, this is a Merceau, but it's a De La Derne.
And then it sort of dawned on me eventually, because I've been to Bonn for instance, and that area where, you know, loads of times actually, not just for wine, it's halfway to skiing.
So, you know, we're halfway to the south of France and I drive everywhere.
And when you are in one of those areas and you're thinking, okay, well, I guess if this is what you drink a lot of, especially when you're pushing the boat out a bit, there's still quite a lot. you could get used to it, you know what I mean?
You could sort of go, no, I kind of know what this is.It's not like he said, oh, well, actually, I brought you some chili and chardonnay.They probably have no clue whatsoever.It's probably not on their radar as much.
Well, I'm saying that, he knows about some of them as well.He bought me a really nice bottle of chili and chardonnay once as well.
I was like, oh my God.I can do it with Ben & Jerry's.Yeah, James can do it with Ben & Jerry's.Oh, really?So you're like a sweet... And who made it, Ben or Jerry?Every time.
Are you, is that your thing then?Dessert and like sweets?Love dessert, that's why.This is a big moment coming up now, right?
Yeah, yeah, well we get to your dream dessert now, and I swear to God, if you skip this like your goddamn wife, you're in trouble.
No, no, I would never skip dessert, and even if I'm not really in the mood for one, I'm definitely the person at the table, and everyone's gotta go, no, no, I don't really want a dessert.
I'm like, fucks, and I order something for the table, yeah, so we've got to order at least one or two.
Hi, this is Christopher Kimball from Milk Street Radio.I often shop at Whole Foods markets since they sell the kind of food I like.Organic vegetables, a great meat counter, and of course a great staff.
For Thanksgiving, Whole Foods offers brined turkeys as well as a spiral cut bone-in ham. The Whole Foods Market Bakery has a large assortment of pies, even a vegan pumpkin pie.Or grab some brioche and butterflake rolls for the table as well.
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So what's your choice?I've gone for tiramisu.And I know I can feel people at home going, mmm, how novel.But I kind of think it's like a good tiramisu.Do you like dessert?
I do.I really like dessert.I'm more of a starters guy.I'm more of a savoury guy.But I will, you know, if I'm out with this guy, I'm having dessert.Because we're all having dessert.
A good tiramisu is a pretty amazing, wonderful thing.And again, that's probably one of the first desserts I would have eaten I don't think I had it as a kid.I don't think we, I don't think I went to many Italian restaurants before I was 21.
I might have done in London once or twice, you know what I mean?So tiramisu was a bit of a sort of like, what is that?And then I think it's just become, a good one is amazing.It really is amazing.
I had the best one of my life recently.So did I. You first?Different places.Bristol, a place called Core, C-O-R, did a Sicilian style tiramisu where instead of sponge fingers they used panettone.
I've said it on the podcast before, I don't know what order it's going to come out in, but I'm going to keep saying it every time tiramisu comes up because it was like Christmas pudding tiramisu, it was incredible and it was only on the menu for one day as a special.
And I want to try and bully the restaurant into having it permanently on the menu.So the more I say on the podcast, the more people are going to go in and ask for it.
And, uh, hopefully I can find my way around and make that happen because it was one of the best desserts I've ever had anywhere.Definitely the best teriyaki risotto I've ever had.It drove me crazy.
Mine was in Manchester.Oh, really?New restaurant called Scoff.Brilliant chef called Tom Barnes.
just opened insanely like wonderful tasting menu and at the end like you're so used to all of these beautifully put together things on a tasting menu they just serve you up like a big helping of this tiramisu that he used to make for his dad like just before his dad passed so it's like it means so much and he comes to the table and explains that and it's just like I think because I think the cream is infused with coffee as well like so it's just got that coffee hit oh my god I can't wait
Yeah, one of the things I love and I kind of touched on it a little bit is when you go somewhere and they are incredible and they can do all the kind of like almost chemistry stuff, but they can still relate to the fact that fish fingers are pretty good.
Yeah.So if we could invent the fish finger again, Or, you know, like Heston Blumenthal does mad things, doesn't he?You know what I mean?
But even, you can go to someone and go, well, it's a tiramisu, but it's got that in it, or it's got that in it, you know what I mean?Whichever one, either one we talked about just then.
It's like, it is that, and maybe there are purists who say, no, a tiramisu should only ever be this. I get that as well, but I just think you guys sound like you go to a lot of high-end now and again, but you know, not all of the time, I think.
Yeah, but definitely more since doing this podcast and getting into that more.But yeah, we're not going all the time, but like when we do, it's pretty much, especially because of doing this podcast, your brain's automatically on record.
Yeah.And you're like, right, what am I eating?What do I love?Can't wait to talk about that.
And yeah, you remember it even more. And I'm going to that place that Ed just said soon, so I'm very much looking forward to that.
Bringing my dad with me, that's his favourite dessert, tiramisu, and Ed says it's the best tiramisu he's ever had, so I'm very much looking forward to just watching my dad while he eats that and says it's buttery.
And you can't have the one in Bristol unless they put it back on the menu.
Yeah, so unless I successfully bully them.
which I will successfully bully you if you're listening to this and I know you listen to this owner of core because you said when I went in to the restaurant that you listen to off-menu so I know that you're listening to this put it on the menu I'm gonna bully the hell out of you but your tiramisu that you want classic tiramisu yeah I think I just go I mean
Generally speaking, I may have had one bad tiramisu in Italy but I can't even remember doing so.It's something that people have done for their kids and their kids and their kids.It's just forever, isn't it?
Someone's gran or grandad has always been making a tiramisu somewhere in Italy and it's just part of the fabric of Italian food and sort of Italian life to some degree.A bit like an espresso.
And that's one thing I was going to say because, do you go in, I mean, I can't finish today without having an espresso, you see.Absolutely.
That's just not, I mean, yeah.
I do love coffee at the end of a meal.Every now and again, if I've had a very special meal and we've maybe added a few little bits and bobs here and that way, you know, maybe if we started
if someone has a good idea of starting with cocktails and you all have a martini or whatever at the top, usually by the end you've done a few special things and I think having the idea to have a coffee at the end is pretty great.
Yeah, I just love it.I kind of think it's, there's just something about it I think.Rounds it off, puts a full stop on it.It does and again I think anyone who likes coffee is, you know, we've all gone past that thing of crap coffee kind of thing.
Do you know what I mean?It does infuriate me a tiny bit sometimes how expensive a coffee can be.And again, I don't know whether they still do this, but in Italy it always used to be you couldn't pay more than a euro for one.
If you stood at the bar and order an espresso, they weren't legally allowed to charge you more than a euro.Which I thought was pretty amazing really.You do have to like neck it and leave, right?
Is that true?Is that like when people say people have to accept stamps as legal tender?Is that a real thing?
So even if you went into, even if you went into like, you know, a five star hotel or whatever in Rome or wherever, and went into the bar area and said, can I have an espresso and stood there, I don't think they were allowed to charge more than a euro for it, I think.
We won't charge you anything for this espresso, it's the dream.Or we'll charge you one euro if it makes you feel better.I'm gonna read your menu back to you now, see how you feel about it.You would like still tap water.
You would like Italian bread with olive oil.Starter, the swordfish carpaccio.That's the one I struggled with was the word swordfish.
main course spaghetti al vongole with bataga, a side dish of rocket and parmesan, your drink you'd like an anti-noise chardonnay and dessert tiramisu followed by an espresso and of course I will send over a block of parmesan for your wife.
Thank you, she'd appreciate that big time.
Thank you so much for coming to the dream restaurant.My absolute pleasure, thank you.I've enjoyed it, thank you.
Well there we are, James, the lovely Rick Astley.Thank you so much, Rick, for coming in.Thank you, Rick.What a pleasure, what a lovely menu as well.
Lovely menu, and that's what I meant when I said he dipped his toe into the world of food and drink.Yes.He has bars.
He has bars, it's very exciting.
Nicola, they have nice bars as well, actually.
Get yourself along there.Good beers.Have a crisp pint.
Have a crisp pint.Yes, please.
Yes.Yes.And I would say never walk past one of those bars.Always go in.And that reminds me of the book Never.
The autobiography of Rick Astley.
That was less good than in the actual interview.That was less of a good link than it was in the actual interview.
I got my confidence up about Segways.
See, that's when you're at your worst, when your confidence is up.
Yeah. Never is out on the 10th of October and he's doing a book tour as well, so people can go in here, Rick, read the book, talk about the book, maybe there'll be a Q&A, who's to say?I'm not in charge.
And all details of that are on Rick's social media.
Get on it, people.Exciting stuff.
And of course, Rick did not say 7-Up.
Thank you for not saying 7-Up.
We were never gonna give him 7-Up.We were never gonna give you 7-Up. I'm back on tour doing my show Hot Diggity Dog, going to lots of different places, edgamble.co.uk for tickets, doing another big London show in November.
If you've not seen the show so far, come and see me at the London Palladium in November.
It's my boy.It's my favourite show of Ed's.Thank you James.I absolutely loved it and I've consistently laughed my head off every time I see Ed Gamble, so that is saying something.Bless you. Ghostbusters Frozen Empire is available to stream on demand.
But remember, if you are watching it online, don't cross the streams.Don't cross the streams.Oh, good.
Slimer's still advertising it.I'm still seeing Slimer on billboards, posters.That guy, he's like the grindstone.
Yeah, he really is.He's like Rick Astley after he released his first single.
The rest of us have moved on from it ages ago.Slimer is absolutely... Yeah, but what other projects has he got going on?Yeah, to be fair, I've got to send him a little something.
He keeps sliming people.So I thought I'd better promote it.
Yeah, imagine Slimer in a different film.
Well, he goes for auditions apparently.
Yeah.Never gets it.They always end in slime.Always end in slime.See you next week!See you next week!
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Hi, this is Christopher Kimball from Milk Street Radio.I often shop at Whole Foods markets since they sell the kind of food I like.Organic vegetables, a great meat counter, and of course a great staff.
For Thanksgiving, Whole Foods offers brined turkeys as well as a spiral cut bone-in ham. The Whole Foods Market Bakery has a large assortment of pies, even a vegan pumpkin pie.Or grab some brioche and butterflake rolls for the table as well.
Or you can ask the Whole Foods team to cater your meal for you, including the bird, the sides, and desserts.Get your holiday party started at Whole Foods Market.
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Hello, my name's Sarah Pascoe.Guess what?I've been on Off Menu a while back.Can't remember what I said.Vegan butter, I think.Anyway, I'm now going on tour with a new show.It's called I Am A Strange Gloop.The tour starts in June 2025.
Come and join me.I might talk about food, if that's what you need.Bread or poppadoms, I'll shout.Stealing content of Off Menu.I will probably talk about other things as well, and I might not shout bread or poppadoms.
Tickets are on sale now at sarahpascoe.co.uk.
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