You're listening to Foresight, a podcast about making work better.I'm your co-host, Mark Edgar, a former consultant and coach who now works as chief people officer on a mission to make work more human.
And I'm Naomi Teitelman, a former big firm consultant and HR executive now striving to make work better, one organization and one leader at a time.
Every week, we'll discuss the latest trends that are impacting the new world of work to help you be a better leader for the future. Welcome to Foresight, a podcast about making work better.
I'm one of your co-hosts, Naomi Tuttleman, and I'm pleased to welcome our next special guest to the show, Allison Vent.Allison is currently in the role of VP, People Operations at Dropbox.
She is an experienced people leader with expertise in developing strategy, operational effectiveness, change management,
M&A, and designing and scaling high-impact employee experiences, which includes designing and continuing to evolve Dropbox's approach to the future of work, virtual first.Welcome to Foresight, Allison.I'm so glad you're here today.
Thanks, Naomi.I am doing great, and I am so happy to be here and talk about all things Virtual First with you.
Yes, I'm excited to get into the discussion, but before we do, we like to start each of our episodes with a little warm-up or check-in question.So, Allison, my check-in question for you today relates to Virtual First.
What is your favorite thing to do instead of commuting?
So this is such a great question because I think actually reflecting on this and the benefits that I think you get from this is so important.
So, you know, in terms of how I kind of have thought about this is really I'm a person who really likes to work out in the morning that if I don't do it in the morning, I don't do it at all.
And when I was commuting every single day into an office, it was a very frantic start to my day, right?I'm running out to my car, I'm getting a workout in quickly at the gym, and I'm getting back in my car, and I'm sitting in traffic for 30 minutes.
That's a short commute, by the way.That was my most recent commute. And just it was a very rushed and sort of frantic morning.Now, you know, when I start my day, what I actually do is I start by walking.
And I actually so I live in San Francisco and I work out at a gym that close to the marina kind of neighborhood of San Francisco.And as I'm walking from my apartment, I'm walking down the hill and I just see the entire San Francisco Bay.
And it's so beautiful.There's often boats out there.There's kids going to school. It just is such a lovely, you know, kind of way to start my day.And for me, it really is about like it brings me energy.
It's kind of a slower, more contemplative start to my workday than I've honestly ever had in my entire working career.So that's been a really kind of transformative personal experience for me, which has been great.
Yeah, that's great.I also am a big workout fan in the mornings.I do squeeze it in if I can't first thing in the morning, but it is just such a great way to start the day.Dog walk and then working out.So I agree.
I love to replace my commute with exercise, something that's good for our bodies instead of sitting in a car, which is not so good for our bodies.Exactly. All right, well, let's get into it and start with you.
If you can share a little bit about your background and what led you to your current role at Dropbox.
Yeah, my background is actually is pretty diverse in terms of the work experiences that I've had.I started my career in advertising, specifically in media planning.
Then I shifted into kind of a broader learning and development space at first in academic advising, actually working with undergraduate students.
And then kind of shifted into a role where I was working still on a college campus, but with a business school.
And so it was really designing programs, professional development programs for external companies that would come to actually with Stanford's Graduate School of Business campus.
And that actually led me into transitioning into an L&D role within tech, which is what led me to Dropbox specifically.
And then when I was at Dropbox, I spent two years working in the L&D space, which was an incredible experience for me, but then shifted into the role that I'm in now, though that role has evolved a lot back in 2020.
So four years later, right, it's evolved quite a bit.But I will say that
When I when I took this new role in 2020, which at the time was leading people strategy and operations and analytics, my first project, which part of that role was about strategic projects, was really to determine how we were going to tackle remote work.
So a pretty big undertaking.And, you know, for me, it was really, you know, there's really no playbook for this.And
And I think, you know, this role, like leading Virtual First, which I know we'll talk a little bit about, it really is a pretty emerging and kind of new role.
But what's been really interesting as I've reflected back over the last four years is that the experiences that I've had across those different areas, you know, really has kind of set me up to be successful, I would say, like in this really multifaceted role that can involve everything from sort of more
communications and storytelling to behavior change, analytics, certainly.So, it's been kind of interesting to reflect on that.
But, you know, again, and all of this kind of resulted in you really creating virtual first, which is what we at Dropbox kind of believe to be that working model of the future because it really combines the best of, you know, remote work and in-person experiences.
So, and, you know, and I know we'll get into this a bit, but we will, you know, we really focus on kind of how we work versus where. That's great.
And you know, we speak to a lot of clients who implement their working model and then don't do anything about this stuff around the working model, right?They're so focused on how many days people are in the office.
To your point, with your learning and development background, there's so much to be done in that space to have an effective model.
I mean, in person also, there's a lot to be done, but I guess we didn't really appreciate it until we all went home and realized that, you know, there is stuff that we have to proactively manage in that space.
But also, you know, both ends of the spectrum, fully in person, fully remote, and everything in between, you know, the learning and development component is just so critical.
And so we have spoken with quite a few guests about hybrid working, but not exactly specifically about fully remote working.And so,
Just to just to kind of set the stage for our listeners, Dropbox is decidedly not hybrid and not remote only, but rather virtual first.So why did Dropbox decide to go in this direction?And what are some of the benefits to a virtual first model?
Yeah, these are great questions.
So, you know, I think as we were kind of approaching how we were going to think about this, you know, sort of working model of the future, I think we really knew that we weren't going to be able to kind of fit ourselves in those kind of standard, you know, categories of work.
So we created our own operating model with Virtual First, which we really think kind of takes the best part of each working model and kind of melding it into what we call virtual first.
And so, you know, prior to 2020, we were a very in-office company.We actually were 97% in office with only 3% of our employees remote.Wow.
But yeah, so in our offices, I would say we're really considered to be these, you know, centers of culture, right, for our organization.
And they were, you know, sort of high employee engagement, you know, within those and again, really viewed as those kind of like culture centers.
But we had really, as an HR team, had begun exploring what more remote work would look like before the pandemic hit because
We thought it was important to really think about unlocking these great talent pools that we weren't getting access to in the places where we, you know, already had offices.
But then, of course, as we all know, March of 2020 hits, that really accelerates the shift to more remote work.And I think what became clear to us is that how we were working before was changing and that it wasn't going to go back.
And at Dropbox, right, we have a company mission of designing a more enlightened way of working.And so we really thought it was incumbent upon us to really try to tackle this head on, given that company mission, right?
And I think, you know, when we were approaching this, it wasn't a decision that we made lightly.We really saw it as kind of like this unique opportunity to completely reimagine how and where we work.
And as part of that, that involved having to reinvent everything from how we approached workspaces, technology or operations.And so it's been a really interesting journey.
So I mentioned, you know, it was my first kind of project that I worked on when I moved into this new role.And it did begin as a people team led project.You know, we looked at things like we had internal survey data.
We did a ton of external research, though, and looked at things like companies who had gone remote and reversed their policies.Why had they done that?What were some of the issues that, you know, that sprung up from that?
And then we also looked at companies that were fully remote and had been working remotely and been successful at it.What were some of the, what was some of that special sauce that, you know, helped them be really successful?
We looked at industry trends.
And as part of that, then we kind of came up with this set of guiding principles that really we thought would enable success and then identified some clear kind of watch points as we were looking at how we were going to evolve work.
And so, you know, as part of that, you know, we, again, Start as a people team, work to really get alignment with our senior leadership team.
And early on, I think what's been really such a game changer for us with Virtual First is that our CEO and co-founder, Drew Houston, is such a huge believer in, you know, evolving modern work.
And so he's been such an advocate for Virtual First from the beginning, and that's been really critical to the success.
But I also think something else that has been really unique and special about how we kind of approach the design of virtual first was one of our early partners actually was our design team and actually our VP of design had had come from kind of a remote first company prior he was at Atlassian prior and he's
just very passionate about kind of advancing modern work, right?So we had this great advocate in our VP of design as well.
And so, you know, and you can kind of think about it, obviously, as you know, designers think about user experience, HR professionals think about employee experience, there's such a natural marriage between those two.
But what it really challenged us to do was to really think about approaching the model from a really creative standpoint. and really design it like a product, right?
And kind of maintaining some of those strategies around kind of building, you know, we kind of, we build, we learn, we iterate, and we keep moving like that.
And so I think that, you know, in terms of some of, you know, the benefits of virtual first, I think we see a lot, and again, kind of,
Measuring, getting feedback from our employees, having an open feedback loop with our employees is really important.
Again, kind of coming back to that product perspective, our employees are our customers and so we have a very open feedback loop with them and they help us build virtual first too.
So I would say flexibility and agency, that's a very clear benefit that we've seen.
We really see actually flexibility as the ultimate kind of currency in modern work and that that really enables our employees to do their best work and be very productive. So this would be things like we leverage an async by default mindset.
And as part of that, we introduced a practice called core collaboration hours, which are set blocks of time when teams can collaborate.They're set by region.
And as part of that, too, you can also then work a nonlinear workday, meaning you can design your workweek around what makes sense for you.
And so, you know, in terms of the results that we see from that, you know, 90% of our employees in our most recent kind of annual survey that we do on Virtual First, 90% agree that Virtual First is a key reason why they stay at Dropbox, which is really amazing.
And actually 87% feel that they have a greater impact working in Virtual First than other working models out there as well.
And I would say another key benefit that we have, I mentioned our company mission before, we really try to approach Dropbox as kind of a lab for distributed work because we're really experimenting with sort of the biggest challenges that we face around remote collaboration.
And because of this, we can really design better product solutions for our customers.Everyone works in a distributed way, even if you are in office-centric culture too, because you likely have even customers, right, that work outside of that.
So that's been a really key benefit.I would also say, too, that virtual first is really about kind of, again, that best of both worlds.We're not only remote.We really prioritize human connection.
And what we see from our employees is a really high level of satisfaction in terms of the balance of in-person work where they get that really rich human connection and trust building with teams.
And then they can go back and work virtually and have a lot of flexibility and autonomy over their schedule or over their kind of work week. Then I would say, lastly, is sort of our, is the diverse talent pool that we've been able to attract.
So, you know, I mentioned 97% in office.Now we're, we're 97% in office, sorry, in 10, 10 different offices across the globe.And now we actually only have 47% of our employees that are
or sorry, 47% of our employees that are based outside of those traditional large tech markets.So that's been a really kind of really amazing kind of expansion into a lot of geographies that we were never in before.
So, you know, we're seeing a lot of kind of emerging non-traditional kind of like tech hubs like Los Angeles or Portland or Chicago.So access to that really great kind of diverse talent pool has also been, I think, a key benefit.
Amazing.Well, clearly tons of benefits.And so those who are listening, who are watching the headlines that, you know, media loves kind of those headlines that say Amazon is going back to five days a week in August.
KPMG just announced that 83% of CEOs think that we're going, that hybrid is going away.There are very, very key benefits to working in this way.Virtual first being kind of the mindset of Dropbox. more or less a hybrid model, right?
The ability to be in-person and remote.And I loved how you mentioned that important component, which is the in-person part, which I think a lot of people miss when they're thinking about this and they're not believers in this type of model.
They think in extremes, right?And so the in-person part of this equation is so critically important because we know that humans are social creatures.We know that in-person interaction is critical for building relationships.
So how do you see in-person connection fitting into virtual first?And what are some of the things that you do at Dropbox to deliberately manage and execute in-person connection?
Yeah, so I think, you know, you kind of touched on it there, but that that human connection is so critically important.And that, you know, one of our company values is actually to make work human.
And so that was something, again, that we really embedded into the initial design of Virtual First, because we really, you know, as you said, there's really no substitute for that kind of real life interaction.And so
As part of our virtual first model, we encourage regular in-person connection with teams, which what we found is really working for our teams is about once a quarter.And so that's typically the cadence that we encourage for our teams.
And these moments, I think, are so essential for building trust, which also helps when you're going back to working virtually.And you can really, that helps you operate with speed, helps us get work done in different ways too.And
you know, as you mentioned, we're social creatures and those moments of connection are really key to combating, you know, feelings of isolation and burnout.
And, you know, we found in our research too that those kind of in-person touch points every quarter are giving our employees that really that sustenance to kind of, okay, like I got that wonderful human connection with my team and then now I can go back to working virtually.
And so in terms of how we, you know, support our employees in working in person,
There's, you know, a lot of work that we've done to really evolve what the in-person experience looks like over the last three years that we've really been working in person, part of the broader virtual-first kind of working model.
So over time, what we found is we enable kind of three different ways of gathering.There's sort of off-sites. which are, you know, what you would think of as probably your traditional sort of off-site that are more strategic in nature.
So things like you have a pretty structured agenda, there might be strategy and planning sessions, and then also team building.But then we also saw need emerging for more retreat-style gatherings as well.
think maybe there's a new leader that comes in, right, where you'd really be focusing on kind of team bonding, cohesion.And then third would be around kind of coworking, right?
So that's like another, that's another sort of gathering modality that we've seen really kind of emerge in the last year or two as being really necessary, where we see really direct teams kind of working together on a specific outcome,
Or we also this year started experimenting more with cross-functional kind of anchor weeks where these cross-functional kind of, you know, squads are working on a particular project.
We'll get together to work on more urgent deliverables and to make quick decisions.And so so those are some of the ways in which people gather.But then, of course, we need. a way to support all of our, you know, teams and employees getting together.
So this year we actually launched an off-site planning team, which is essentially kind of a concierge that offers end-to-end support on everything from like locations to spaces to programming content and travel.But we also, we can't
you know, realistically probably plan every single offsite.So we also wanted to make sure that we were creating a self-serve version of the offsite planning team.So we created an offsite in a box essentially.
And that is really us open sourcing all of our offsite planning playbooks to our employees.
So they have access to all the same, you know, sorts of location specific, you know, recommendations or content that might be relevant for, you know, a specific goal that someone's trying to achieve.
We also, this year, rolled out a company-wide off-site calendar, too, that gives visibility into when these events are happening so that team leads can see, oh, there's a key cross-functional partner that's going to be in Chicago this particular week.
Let me try to align my off-site to that. So that really helps with kind of that cross-functional alignment too.But beyond sort of those team off sites, we also have other ways that we encourage folks to get together in person.
In 2022, we launched what we call the Dropbox Neighborhoods Program.I mentioned some of those kind of emerging hubs that we've seen with our employees outside of some of those like more traditional kind of tech markets.
And we wanted to be able to give Dropboxers the opportunity to connect in person outside of that, right?So they may get together to watch in all hands and then do a manager training after that.
And we also, as part of that neighborhoods program, actually give funding to employees to design their own event.Like they might want to host a book club or do a sports league or something and have folks, you know, join as part of that.
And so we give teams the resources, including funding, to be able to do that.And we also do a lot of our ERG employee resource group programming in person as well.And we'll extend that throughout our neighborhoods too.
Amazing.So what I'm hearing is that it's not a plug and play, let's announce virtual first and then leave it up to everyone to decide what that means for them.It requires a lot of planning.
It requires a ton of investment, but just in a different way.So, you know, again, it's not just about the policy, it's about the people lens, which you mentioned a way broader talent pool.That's one of the amazing benefits.
making sure managers are trained properly to work in this way because you went from 97% in person to way less than that.And then the infrastructure piece, right?
So that real, the infrastructure piece is both how we're going to leverage the space that we have and how we're going to enable space when people want to get together ad hoc. And and the real estate plan just looks different.
So again, it's not just about like announcing, you know, we're going virtual first and then leave it up to the people to figure it out.It's really being very deliberate about how you enable, empower and manage that.
So, you know, again, I think we're hearing a lot about the few headlines out there, so I don't think this is not pervasive.
We see data that says the shift back to full-time in office is not pervasive, but we like these glorified headlines, if you will.So,
You know, you've mentioned so many great benefits and so many ways people are still feeling connected to one another and to the company, even in or even more so in a virtual first environment.
So what do you think organizations lose by forcing employees back into the office?And what can they gain with a more intentional approach like you've implemented at Dropbox?
It's interesting and kind of considering, again, the headlines that are sort of out there.
You know, something that I have really seen is it's just like also a need to really kind of shift the conversation to when we're asking people to come into the office.
I mean, there's definitely a purpose, as we've talked about, for gathering in person.But what is really the reason, right, that we're that we're bringing people in person?What are we trying to solve for, you know?
When and how often do teams really need to be in person?How do they spend their time together?How does this play into team effectiveness?
And, you know, we really try to think about it as kind of expanding beyond the four walls of the office, right, and really thinking about how we gather.
And what I think we lose when we, you know, kind of approach things in that way with that kind of thinking, right, is that flexibility and autonomy.I think that modern work can really offer employees, I think, innovation and creativity for sure.
I think also time, which I think is such a valuable asset.And, you know, you lose a lot of time commuting.There's distractions that come in the office, too, you know.
And then I also think, you know, a lot of a lot of companies, I think, came out early on and talked about enabling a lot of flexibility.And then, and then change their approach, which which certainly happens.
But I do think there's an erosion of trust that that happens with employees and in, you know, in those kinds of situations.But I think what we gain by approaching, you know, with really intentional kind of design and and also a learning mindset.
I mean, I think that's also something that we've really tried to embed within Virtual First.So, I would also include the learning mindset because this is constantly evolving, but it's a flexible workforce, you know, folks that are creative.
I think it's also about really thinking about boosting belonging and impact.We see, you know, a lot of great analytics and research to sort of support that.People are coming together.
When they're coming together in person, they're coming to do that in new and different ways than maybe they've ever done in the past when they've, you know, come in and sat at a desk and been going to calls every day.And also, I think, focus, right?
That's something, again, when we really tried to design our model, enabling focus time and not being in back-to-back meetings all day is something that's really important.
With more focus time, you deliver, you know, higher quality work, and you also have more agency over your schedule, which I think is something that's really important.
Yeah, it's almost impossible to think of anything that is a benefit to being full time in person every single day, right?So it's just amazing how that 83% of CEOs are really thinking that hybrid is going away.I mean, it feels incredibly tone deaf.
And I think we're still at this us versus them in their minds. where they don't realize that it is a win for everybody when we enable more flexibility.And it's not individual flexibility at all costs.
We had Brian Elliott on our podcast, and he brought up a great point that it's not just about a free-for-all.It's about being committed to your team and respect for one another.But being full-time in person, there's so much to be lost by that.
And to your point, like you said, people in general get together once a quarter.
That's not to say that they can't get together more frequently if they're working on something that requires kind of more in-person interaction or it's a new team and they're really trying to form bonds.
But the guideline is interesting that once a quarter you gather in person.
And I think that, you know, there is something about, you know, we again tried to be really thoughtful about what are these centralized sorts of, you know, frameworks and guidelines that we can set at the company level, because you do have to have alignment across lots of we all work cross functionally across orgs and teams.
So we need to have some central frameworks that we kind of are aligning to, but there is flexibility still on either side.
You know, as you mentioned, like some teams, there might be a certain situation where they need to get together in person more frequently, or a time when they actually might be like, you know what, maybe we need to spend a little bit more time dialing into some, you know, virtual, more virtual kind of work because we're really trying to focus on efficiency right at this point.
I think, yeah, you kind of need that overarching kind of company-wide framework to all kind of align to, but then allowing some flex for individual team needs.
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned innovation as one of the benefits where, you know, there is a lot of rhetoric out there that innovation is one of the downsides of not being full-time in person.
But if you think about, again, we had Gleb Tsipersky on our podcast, who's an expert in behavioral science, and he was kind of going through the steps of innovation
And some of the steps are actually way better suited to remote asynchronous work, right?
And you get rid of some of the groupthink and you get rid of some of the biases that happen when you're all in person and basically allowing the loudest voice or the heaviest influence to win.So really lots to be gained by having that flexibility.
But to your point, having kind of the guidelines and frameworks and values and really living by the values.
So it's actually quite easy for a team to figure out when should we be impersonal and when should we not when there's kind of this broader framework and tone from the top and values that kind of dictate when and how that happens. Mm hmm.
Yeah, absolutely.So how does Dropbox translate employee feedback and research into insights and action?
Yeah, so I mean, this is something that has been really, really core to the design of our virtual first model from the beginning, I mentioned the learning mindset, that is something that we take very seriously.And so
You know that open feedback loop that I mentioned right that's really core to the foundation of virtual first and so we are actually I really look at it like we're designing virtual first together because we leverage our employee feedback we hear it.
We internalize that and we continue to iterate and evolve on our model and so. You know, I think how we really do it and how we approach it, it's also been really interesting too, right?
Because it's not like there's one singular metric or one way of looking at what success means.So our analytics team really looks at triangulating insights across really a broad set of sources.So we leverage surveys, we have
We have people data that we look at.We do a lot of pilots and experimentation.We do a twice per year employee engagement survey.I mentioned we have an annual Life in Virtual First survey, but we also will do different kinds of research.
I mean, we've partnered with like user research.We've partnered with behavioral researchers in the past to do studies on different aspects of how we work in virtual first.So, you know, we look at a really kind of diverse
set of measurements, I would say.And we really try to look at the impact of specific virtual first behavioral practices and how are people adopting them?How are these practices influencing the overall employee experience?
Piloting, again, is something that has been really, really critical to how we approach continuing to, you know, measure but test and then evolve and iterate.
And so, you know, really leveraging a human-centered design approach, again, is something that's really core to virtual first, but I also think, you know, designing workplaces of the future, and it's how we really learn and iterate, you know, in real time.
And so, we really try to take all of those insights, pull them all together, and leverage those insights, and then embed them into how we're training our employees, the practices that we provide for our employees,
We'll do regular kind of internal, you know, offering tips and best practices.Really that ongoing kind of like training and learning is so crucial to virtual first.We're just really unlearning a lot of work behaviors.
And I would say like it just requires a lot of intentionality, a lot of reinforcement. For me, you know, I'm so immersed in this work, but I have to do that consistently myself.It's very caught, like meetings can creep back up, right?
You can find yourself kind of falling into old practices.So it just requires a lot of intention.And we kind of try to take that principle when we're kind of reinforcing things and sharing insights with our employees. I think that's so important.
And, you know, leaders out there who think that just because something goes wrong, it's time to pull the plug.There's so many things that we can do to make things better iteratively than just pulling the plug and saying, oh, this isn't working.
Let's go back to a full-time in-office approach. There's lots of options, so don't do it.
And on that note, many of our listeners are HR professionals like yourself, and I've heard many struggle with how to have conversations with their executive teams about the right working model for their business, not copying what the headlines are saying.
So when the headlines come out and executive teams are panicking and they're saying, maybe we should do this too, what would you suggest HR professionals do in the face of this kind of pushback from their executive teams?
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a few different things.I think, number one, I would encourage teams, HR teams specifically, to really think critically about what is it that you're trying to achieve by bringing employees back into the office?
Are there certain goals or outcomes that you're wanting to see?And then test that.
do a small experiment, a small pilot of some kind, and see what the data shows, and use data to help drive decision-making and to influence decision-making around this.I think that's incredibly important.
I think there's also a lot around kind of challenging, and I would encourage HR teams to do this, think about things really differently. consider building your operating model like a product with your employees at the center as the customer.
I think that's something that not only helps drive engagement with your employees, but also really helps build trust as well, and also really helps you understand what your employees are really looking for.
And once you really have a great gauge on that, you can incorporate that into that sort of data-driven approach and share that data with your teams, too.And so, I think that's really compelling.
I don't necessarily see a lot of data to support, at least, you know, what you see in the headlines.And of course, there's another story there.
But there's not a lot of data to support, okay, we need to go back into offices and here's what we see in terms of spikes in productivity or spikes spikes in employee engagement.
So I would challenge us to really keep data front and center, our employees front and center, and again, kind of approach it like it's a product.
Very wise words.Thank you for that.Great advice.And so we are getting to the end of our time together, and we like to end each episode of the Foresight Podcast with a feel good.So what are you feeling good about today, Allison?
So I think there's a couple of things that I'm feeling really good about.We actually, in the fall, we were diving deep into planning for next year.
And I always just get really energized by going through this process because it's an opportunity to reflect on all the things that we've learned over the last year.
And we've just done some really, really interesting research around work models and our learnings.And I'm really excited to kind of share that in the coming months.
And, you know, as part of that too, I think one of the best parts of this stage of modern work is the community within, you know, this broader space and just a really open knowledge sharing that happens with folks in HR or in workplace experience as well.
And I think having the space to kind of collaborate and connect with people about kind of what we're all learning is really special.
And I've got a few touch points coming up with folks within that community in the next couple of months, which I also think will be really powerful
in terms of planning as well, just as it brings a different kind of energy and excitement to you to just hear what other people are experimenting with, too.So I'm excited about that.
Yeah, those those sound great.And you're right.It's the best time and a very challenging time to be in the people space.So we need one another and we need to find our peeps. So thank you for spending the time with us today on Foresight, Allison.
It's been a pleasure to meet you and get to know you a little bit.And before we sign off, can you tell our listeners how they can learn more about the great work that you're doing?
Yes, yes.So we have a kind of a hub for all things Virtual First.You can go to virtualfirst.dropbox.com. We also regularly share our learnings out on our Dropbox work in progress blog.
And then lastly, you can find me on LinkedIn, where I also share kind of our latest findings on all things virtual first.Amazing.
And I did connect with you on LinkedIn and I look forward to following all the amazing work that Dropbox is doing.
You know, this has been a really insightful conversation, both because of your, you know, migration to virtual first, but keep in mind, Dropbox has been around for a while now. And, you know, the workforce at Dropbox was not virtual first.
So think about, you know, for our listeners, what that transition looked like for Dropbox.And it's not impossible for all of you to do similar at your organization.So keep fighting the good fight, bring forward the data, iterate and learn.
And until next time, everyone take care.Thanks so much, Allison.Thanks, Naomi. Thanks for listening to Foresight.If you enjoyed the episode, we would love to hear from you.Leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts.
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