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Gen Z has lost hope in the possibility of marriage or even committed partnership.If your partner is not willing to put in any effort, you have to realize that your relationship will never become better.
So the money becomes, I think, a good litmus test.It's like, all right, if I don't even trust you with my money, then why are we doing this?
Is Instagram a good place to find someone in 2023?So, Paul, it's great to have you on.And what I love, we were talking about this earlier, is that you clarified to me that you are a matchmaker.
You are the guy who is out here to really help build and create relationships.You've done this for over 3,000 people.
And what's really interesting is that I personally wouldn't have known that that's something that is a career and a need in society.But more and more, it's clear that people are needing help when it comes to relationships.
So I probably want to dive into number one, why and how you got into that career.And then also, let's work out how we can help the people because the streets are cold, is what I've been hearing.
The streets are cold, they're dry.
It's dry, it's the desert.
It's dry, it's dry.No, no, I'm with it.And also, you're not alone in not knowing that a matchmaker is a profession.Before I entered the profession, I had no idea there was something called a matchmaker.
You know, what's interesting, though, is a lot of people say that matchmakers are the second oldest profession in the world.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised by that, though, actually.
Yeah, as well.And you know what number one is?
Prostitution.Oh, yeah, true.True.
We've been seeking love by any means necessary.
By any means, right.Yeah, yeah.But with matchmaking, I mean, my quick on it is that, so I went to business school, actually.So I have an MBA. And then I was in investment banking, but I focused on research in investment banking.
So that's really my training is I'm a researcher and I'm also Jamaican.And I always joke that anybody who's, uh, you know, first or second generation, you have multiple jobs.You know what I mean?You got a lot of jobs.
So I was like, how many jobs do you have really?
I mean like five.And I'm Nigerian, so we need like real jobs, like a lot of them.
Yeah.So it's one of those where we, so I was working as an investment banker, you know, great job.But then I also ran a summer camp in Washington DC and we focused on really black and Latino kids who were coming from low income households.
And so one summer, 2008, we have 100 kids in this camp.One of the questions on the form, the registration form, is, well, how many parents live in your household?So that we could contact them.
And it turned out that out of the 100 kids, not one had two parents living in the household. And that's what got me, because I began to do my research around the benefits that you get when you have two parents in the household.
And so a lot of the counselors were like, Paul, why don't you become Hitch?You just become Hitch and hook them up.And I thought, that's crazy.
Crazy, but but so then long story short my wife and I started hosting these parties at our house in Washington DC Called the brown sugar party.It's the brown sugar party.
That sounds like a load of fun.Oh my god Just on the name alone.
It was like we need to bring it back.We need to bring it to London Yeah, and it was only called brown sugar because everybody was drinking drinks with brown sugar like bourbon and whatever
Yeah, but the whole idea was that we would bring singles to our house and we would give them an opportunity to interact with each other Outside of a club outside of a restaurant that kind of thing and by the end of our first summer doing that we had two people who got engaged
And right off, so then I put my business cap on.I was like, okay, hold on.The format of the Brown Sugar Party is so great, I want to sell this idea.So I went online, I was trying to figure out who could I sell this to?
Because dating apps weren't really a thing then, so who could I sell it to?Then I found this profession called Matchmakers and I looked up and I found one of the most prominent matchmakers She was based in New Jersey and I thought okay.
I want to try to sell this idea to her So I contacted her she would never respond back to me So I saw on her website that she was going to be at a conference called the matchmaker Institute conference.Okay, and
That was going to be happening in New York and I was like, what?There's more than one of them?Yo, like what?This is crazy.So long story short, I bought a ticket and I said, I'm going to go, I'm going to go sell her this idea.
That's what I'm going to do.And I got there and I was late and I sat in the back of this room.It was 250. of the world's top matchmakers.There was folks from the UK, folks from all throughout Europe, folks, you know, predominantly from the US.
And I looked across the room and I said, hold on for a second.Nobody in this room is under the age of 40.There were no men in the room.There was no one of color in the room.
And I thought, wow, I have an interesting perspective that I might be able to give.So instead of trying to sell this idea, maybe I keep the idea and maybe I think about this matchmaker career.That's what led me down the path of becoming a matchmaker.
So then I quit my job.I went back to school for social psychology.
to actually study for like a degree for that.
For a degree for social psychology.I went, I did an internship with who I consider to be the world's top matchmaker.Her name is Rachel Greenwald.She went to Harvard Business School, then became a matchmaker.
I worked my ass off and I also started providing matchmaking pro bono.So for free, I was doing matchmaking.I did that for two years.Then we opened up the agency.And I say we, because it was my wife who opened up the agency with me.
Oh wow.So it was almost by accident that you rolled into this but clearly something in your heart felt like there's a problem and maybe I can help deliver a solution and then everything kind of worked out together in the end.
Yeah, it was what you just said.
It was identifying a problem that literally kept me up at night, like wondering why... I don't understand the issues with there not being nuclear families, which led me to another problem, which was I don't understand why there's a drop in the marriage rate.
Because what's interesting is that at 2008, There was a decline in the marriage rate, but what a lot of people misinterpret now is that the marriage rate has actually been flat in the UK and the US for the last couple of years.
But at that time it was dropping and I was trying to figure out, I didn't understand why, what was the reason?
I mean, we need five hours to talk about it.But a big, big point that I'll make on that is that the marriage rate has only dropped for people who make, who are in the bottom 80% of the socioeconomic bracket.
So, for the very wealthy, for the highly educated, the marriage rate and the divorce rates have always remained stable.But for those who are not in that top tier, it is precipitously dropping.
So, you could begin to see how society plays a huge role in that reason.
So I feel like for some of the younger generation, marriage feels like this impossible thing and also this thing that they don't want, right?There's a lot against even the idea of marriage because as I mentioned before, the streets are cold.
I think people have lost a lot of hope.What would you say to maybe Gen Z and maybe millennials who are like, no, I don't want marriage anymore.
All right, so now, you know, one of my other jobs is I'm head of global research for Tinder.
Okay, yeah, yeah, so so I've been in that job for a year So I just authored the biggest report on Gen Z around this exact topic So it's called the future of dating report 2023.
Oh my gosh and so I know all the data on this and what's interesting is that you're absolutely right and
Gen Z so that so, you know is 50 million people I think in the study Gen Z has lost hope in the possibility of Marriage or even committed partnership happening to them.Yeah, however when you unpack do you still want it?They still want it
It doesn't feel like that when you consume social media.
It doesn't feel that way.And part of that is the societal message of, you know what, forget it.You don't need that.Jump into this empowerment, whatever it may be.But when you look at it, they still want it.
The best data on this is there's something called the GSS, the General Survey, essentially, that's authored in the United States.
And every single high school student who's graduating, a senior graduating, has been asked the same question since the 1970s.And that is, is that, do you see marriage in your future and then, or do you want it?
The number of kids who say yes, it's dropped in terms of, do I see it in my future?But do you want it, has always remained high, 72, 76%. So, inherently we want it, right?We want it.
The other thing too about Gen Z that I love is Gen Z is the most authentic in dating out of any generation.Millennials, baby boomers, etc.
And they were the first generation to not place physical attraction as the number one determinant as to why they want to continue to see someone. which is amazing, right?
So you think about millennials or Gen X or baby boomers, the number one reason why they say they want to see someone on another date is how they look.
Okay, so what's the new reason?
The new reason is how comfortable do I feel with you?Do I feel like I could be myself with you?Do I feel like you appreciate me for me, you know?
So long story short is what I say, this is what I wrote in the report, is I believe that Gen Z will have the most successful marriages out of any generation in the history of the world, but they'll also have the fewest.
And the reason for that is because authenticity is so important to them, is that they won't want the fake.They won't want to engage with people who are going to not treat them as they deserve to be treated, right?They'd rather be
happy on their own than in a relationship and be unsatisfied.So for that reason, I think, and lots of others, but I think you're going to see the marriage rate will drop, right?But you're going to see happier marriages than ever before.
So the season of kind of maybe my generation and actually not even my generation, but maybe the older generation of stick it out and actually 50 year long marriage, people who don't really like each other, but they've learned to steady the course.
That's not going to be a thing anymore.
No, it's going to disappear.So it will continue to be a thing, right?But it's going to become less of a thing.And there's a researcher in New York, his name is Eli Finkel, and he wrote a book called The All or Nothing Marriage.
And he has done the most research around this, and he's found that right now, if you look at the UK and the US, 80% of marriages are considered to be low satisfaction.Like, low satisfaction marriages.
But 20% of them have higher satisfaction than at any point in the history of the world.And the reason for this is because we're now getting the tools.
Like, people could come to you, they could watch your podcast, they could say, wow, you know what, I could learn something to apply to my relationship.
But, this is the 20%, the 80% are saying, you know what, I'm just in it because success to me is just longevity.
But I think we have to realize that longevity should no longer be the benchmark for success in a relationship or in anything we do should be about longevity.
That kind of grin and grit your teeth and just white knuckle through relationship is a thing that I've seen for many, many generations.
And even culturally, I've seen culturally where people are like, well, we never get divorced, but you don't hate each other.So why are you together?
Exactly.And then you think about this and you think, okay, We now have enough research to show that if you are together and you have low satisfaction, that is detrimental to your children.Detrimental to your children.
So what you're doing is that you are passing on that toxicity that exists between you and your partner, not just to your kids, but to your kids' kids.You're starting a cycle of toxicity.So it's up to you to break that cycle.
And so, yeah, you shouldn't just be in a relationship to be in it.
That's actually quite scary.That's actually scary.Not scary in that like, it's scary because I think a lot of people are not aware.
And I think you mentioned now that there are tools that people can get to understand how to have a better relationship, how to work together effectively.
But what would you do in a situation where parties are not willing to actually grow and learn and develop?I felt, I've seen this where there's one person who's really on a journey of self-love and another one who doesn't wanna develop.
What would you do in those scenarios?
This is a brilliant question and you're absolutely right.This happens time and time again.The short answer is this, if there is no effort, there's no interest.And that seems very harsh to say, but if there is no effort, there's no interest.
So if there is no willingness to heal, because ultimately that's what therapy is at the end of the day, there's lots of different modalities, there's lots of different types, but ultimately what it means is you are being healed. That's what it means.
Now, you could be healed through a variety of means, because there's a variety of different types of therapy, but you could literally, I'm not just saying this today, someone could listen to your podcast as a couple, they can debate the topics that they hear,
That debate in itself is healing.So at minimal level, that's what it is.So if your partner is not willing to put in that level of effort, there's no effort.There's no interest.
Also, what's interesting, I think, in the data is women typically check out, in heterosexual relationships, they check out a year before the relationship ends, a year.Right now, 75% of divorces in the UK and the US are being led by women, right?
So it's one of these where typically what ends up happening is the woman is the one on the journey of self-development and self-awareness and understanding the tools and their partner isn't.And I think ultimately the question becomes,
If your partner is not willing to put in any effort, you have to realize that your relationship will never become better.
So if you're already in a place where you are disgruntled, you're not happy in your relationship, it's not going to get any better.And so that's where you could put different things in play.You know, ultimatums?
are very effective if you plan to hold to the ultimatum.Because here's what typically happens.One of my good friends is a divorce attorney, okay?
And this is what she tells me all the time, is that typically, so right now we know, over 70% of divorces led by women.So the woman serves the guy at the paper, right?And says, all right, look, we're getting divorced.He's like, what?
I didn't even know we had problems.What are you talking about?Things are good.We still having sex, like everything is good, right?She's like, no.And he says, No, wait, wait, I will change, I will change, right?
In essence, serving him that, that was the ultimatum.She's saying, look, I'm going to go.So ultimatums can be effective if you're going to hold onto it.
But, and not to go way off on this, but unfortunately, a lot of women also are trapped in the relationship. because of financial reasons.They're trapped maybe because they're with someone who's moved them away and so they have no support community.
So it's not as easy as just offering the ultimatum and leaving, but you have to realize if there is no effort by your partner, they have no interest, the relationship's not getting any better.
That is kind of crazy to hear. So obviously we're talking about marriage and divorce and those kinds of scenarios.I do feel like for a lot of people, that feels really far away.Like marriage doesn't even feel like an option.
What should people be doing now to even find those initial connections and find not necessarily the right one, but someone they feel like they could build something with?
Yeah, all right, so I'll start with the thought of, you have to really ask yourself, okay, well, why is it that I am thinking about even entertaining a relationship with someone, right?
Because the beauty of the day and age that we live in now is that there are literally hundreds of different types of relationships.You could be solo polyamorous, you could be, I mean, we could go down the list, but there's many different types.
But here's the point, the point is that, and this is something I deeply believe in, is so back in 2014, Sheryl Sandberg wrote a book called Lean In, right?Changed the game for a lot of people, changed the game for a lot of women, right?
It was about not just women in leadership and ambition and gender roles, but to me, what sparked interest to me was that she said, one line in there blew my mind, she wrote, The most important career decision is who you choose as a partner.
I really believe that.Wow.Yeah.
And that sparked a lot of discussion.And then three years later, Warren Buffett, because I'm a finance nerd, Warren Buffett, right?Becoming Warren Buffett, big documentary.What does Warren Buffett say?The most important decision you can make in life
Is who you choose as a partner and you have all of these executive ceos people luminaries saying this is the most important decision Yeah, then when you back out and you look at the research because this touches upon well, why do you even want to go down this path?
There's a dude named.Dr. Waldinger Who's a harvard university professor?He is the large the longest running longitudinal study on happiness
Right?It's called The Good Life.That's what it's titled here in the UK, The Good Life.And basically what he states is that it is the strength of our intimate relationships.
It doesn't have to be sexual, but of our intimate relationships that mean what?That means how long we live,
how happy we are, what type of health issues that we have, how much money we make, how satisfied we are in our career, basically everything that we want in life. comes, is derived from having strength in our intimate relationships.
So all of this paints the picture that, you know what, it is smart to have a relationship, intimate relationship with someone.
So what I go back to saying is that just as it's smart to have an intimate relationship with someone, it's smart to have an intimate relationship with the right someone.Because if you pick the wrong someone, you know what you get?
you get no satisfaction, you get health issues, you actually get death.There was a study in the US, blew my mind.It was 4,000 women.They took 2,000 of the women, and so 4,000 women in a relationship.
And they took 2,000 of them and 2,000 of them talked about the problems that they had in their relationship with people, therapists, with friends.The other 2,000, the other half, they didn't talk to anyone.
What do you think happened to the second half?They were four times as likely to die.Now, why is that? Why do you think that is?
Because you need something or somewhere to release.It's unhealthy to store negativity within yourself.Like you need that emotional release in a healthy way.
So I can 100% imagine that not having anyone to communicate with is detrimental to your physical and emotional health.
Yes, now you think about this, right?Because people talk about this all the time, but let's even go deep on this.Why would it be detrimental to your physical health if you're holding things back and you're not talking about your problems?
How does it really impact you?
I mean, if you get scientific, like cortisol, some kind of impact your hormones, hypothalamus, all of this kind of stuff I know will have an internal impact on you.
Yeah.So everything that you're saying connects to just more inflammation, right?So essentially anything that comes your way, a cold, anything that comes your way, it exacerbates.
And so then you think the opposite of that is by talking, what does it do? reduces all of that, reduces the cortisol level, you're less stressed, you're calm, right?Your body is physically able to fight off this stuff.
This is, to me, it was one of the greatest connections of mind and body, that study.So you think these are all of the reasons why you want to be in a relationship, but not just any, the right relationship.
So this is why I always say that you don't wanna just be in any relationship.You wanna, it's right ones only.
Right ones only.Wrong ones can kill us.
Right?So we want right ones only.So I think that's where you begin.And when you begin with that level of seriousness, then you sit back and then you actually go through the steps of, okay, what can I do? What can I do?Right?
There's so many things we could do.One is, you know, so you must be, you're saying all the right words.You must be in therapy.You must know about therapy.
I'm in therapy.I know about how the body keeps the score.So I know about how stress impacts you.And I recognize the impact of relationship when it isn't going right.So been there.
All right. I see it because I put everybody in the therapy woke, therapy un-woke category, right?Yeah, I can see it.
Spiritual therapy, meditation, I'm about it.
There you go.So that's where it begins.And the reason why that's so important is because we all have some level of trauma that needs to be healed, that needs to be discussed.
How we show up as adults is a direct, direct relation to our suffrage as a child, right?So that's where it begins.And then it flows from there, right?Become better in your communication, right?Everyone could become an active listener.You know?
What I find though, is that you're obviously speaking the truth here.However, society doesn't encourage or support the healthy options for people to choose for themselves.
So in a world of social media and dating apps, people aren't thinking about going into relationships for bettering themselves physically and emotionally, as well as economically.
Why are people, or why are we having to battle with what society pushes on us and actually what's beneficial to us?
Yeah, you know why?This is, can I spin this?Go ahead.Do you allow society to raise your children?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.Hell no, no, no, I see it.I mean, we're filming your house.I see all these educational toys over here, right over here, right.Chemistry station, yeah, facts.
So the point is, is that you say, okay, my children are going to exist in society, but I'm going to raise them.It's the same thing.Society's requirement on us or their, should I say, their obligation is not for us to be happy, right?
In any nation, they want us to pay taxes and die.
That's what they want.Pay taxes as long as possible and then you die off and we're gonna have someone else.That's what the gig is.So what we have to understand is that we are our own responsibility.
You have to be your number one self-advocate in life.And this is why you look around, I was talking to my man right here, right?And talking about this is why you need to have aspiration in your life. I think you are the aspiration for your audience.
People look at you and say, you know what?She's therapy woke.She's this, she's that, she's that.She's done it.She's gone through the storm.She's gotten up through the other side.And everybody's constantly going through storms.
But it's the fact that you've at least weathered a storm.That's aspiration.But then you need the instruction The instruction is the actual step-by-step.I need the tools.This is very important.
So I think that the quick answer is that we have to realize society's obligation is not to us.Our obligation is to us.
So how then do people stop self-sabotaging and maybe build that level of self-awareness for themselves?How can they start that?
Yeah, I mean, you wake up, and how I say you wake up is you simply become aware.That is number one.Awareness is everything.
And I am willing to bet that anyone who is watching you, who didn't just stumble on you, but has been watching you for a while, is aware. That's the first step.So you become aware.By any means necessary, you become aware.
And then after you become aware, you begin to take action.And action is just simply one small step in the right direction.I think so many of us get caught up in the journey, how long the journey is, when am I gonna get there?
No, the key is just to move your body in the right direction.That's it.And then you just keep going.So awareness, I understand, I'm going to move my body in the right direction.First step, I'm going to do something small.
Maybe I'm going to read My Body Keeps the Score, right?Or maybe I'm going to read about Dr. Waldinger.Or maybe I'm going to investigate therapy.Whatever it may be, begin to take those steps.And each step begets the next step.
Right now, people do feel lonely.I think they're surrounded a lot by lots of noise, lots of connections online, but actually not real connections in person, especially when it comes to the kind of intimate relationships that they want.
How would you, what's your opinion on this at the moment?
We gotta look at, I love books, I'm a super nerd.So, Dr. Robin Dunbar, from here, from the UK.He's the one who created the Dunbar Rule.His new book out is called Friends.I love this.
And in essence, what Dr. Dunbar says is that we all have roughly 150 friends.Throughout history, 150 friends.And it's really about our cognitive ability to know that we have 150 people in our social circle.
But here's what's most important as it applies to loneliness, is that that 150 people, there's certain rungs.We have our close BFFs, right?Then we have the next rung.Those could be like your work colleagues, right?
And then you've got your next rung, the people who you might see every month or so, that kind of thing.And then it keeps going till you get to your 150th friend.Now here's what's most alarming.
Here in the UK, if you look at your BFFs, and I consider your BFF your 3 a.m.friend, And this is where the study is, right?The study is a 3 a.m.friend.
So that study connected to this, it says that how many friends do you have that you could call at 3 a.m.and they are going to stop what they're doing, stay on the phone with you, or come over to your house?So how many 3 a.m.friends do you have?
When the study's done, right here in the UK, women have three to five friends on average.
Zero.Because of we're in this lonely epidemic, right?So loneliness right now is one of the number one drivers around all the mental health issues that we have.
And we saw a lot of this in the research that we were doing for the Tinder Future of Dating Report.And that's showing up in particular in how men are interacting with dating, but also why they're not dating, right?
So we also, if you look at the data, you see how loneliness impacts us.We have the highest level of unemployment for men slash boys that the UK's ever seen.
We also have the highest number of mental health issues for boys slash men that the UK's ever seen.And you look at this and you say, okay, we're in a dangerous spot because also there's a high level of what I call sedation happening.
where you have higher rates of watching pornography, you have higher rates of drug abuse and mixed with the unemployment, you have higher rates of people staying at home.
So what you have is that we are growing this massive group of people who are not just lonely, but they are isolated in that loneliness, like physically isolated.Because what you said, it's like, you could just stay on your phone.
You don't have to interact with anyone in this day and age.Now, why is that?I think it's more political and socioeconomic.But the fact is, is that we're in the state right now.And it's really dangerous.
As a matter of fact, I think this is why you see, you know, the rise of people like the Andrew Tates of the world, is because you have a large, huge population that is growing that feels as if society No longer supports them.
No longer cares about them.Yeah, they feel as if pop culture doesn't speak to them doesn't care about them Yeah, and and and it's it's really dangerous, you know when you look at the history of of the world
That population of people that was ostracized, they always existed.But do you know where they were used in the history of the world?No.That's where the militias were used.
So the men who were used for war and fighting.
That's exactly who they were.
Okay.And so that's a growing population of men right now.
Because is the UK fighting any, like, I mean, do you fight wars with people anymore?No, you fight them with drones.You know what I mean?And that's a huge population, right, that used to do that, right?But now, no.Also, what do we have now?
Everything is being outsourced.Technology is replacing jobs.Now, as society goes on, you need a higher skillset level in order to do any, You know make any type of income.
Yeah, so you could see where there's a massive group that is growing and it's a very dangerous group right very or should I say Potentially dangerous group.Yeah
because I was actually gonna ask you about, and it sounds so bad to say for me coming from a woman, which is what's going on with men nowadays?
That's actually the resounding hit sound I hear from women who wanna be in a relationship and want someone who's committed to them, but they're finding that they just can't find the men that they want or the men who used to be like the old men.
And then obviously you're saying that they're ostracized by society.They're feeling a little bit more outcast, do they not have the option to kind of do something about that?And why aren't they?
Yeah, so, all right, there are a couple things that were in there.One is that there's still lots of lovely men out here, right?And also, just because you're in that group doesn't necessarily mean you're not a lovely guy, right?
So, you know, I always say that In terms of men, like original time, let's talk about the fellas.
Also, let's not generalize.I'm not going to generalize.I love men.We love men.They're fabulous.But you know, as a woman, I hear that resounding sound of like, men ain't this, and they're not here anymore.
But I understand that they're dealing with stuff as well.
Yeah, exactly.And I like that you're saying that because we have to understand that there are more good guys than there are bad guys, right?
And the number one reason that we found in this report that women say that they're not in a partnership is because of what you just said.They feel like they can't find anyone who's compatible with them.
But now, do you know what the number one reason why men say?
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They are fearful of rejection.Okay, now you think about this.Yeah.Fearful of rejection.I see, uh-oh, I already see there, you're like, what?Fearful of rejection? fearful of Rejection fearful of approaching.
Mm-hmm being denied fearful of sending a message being denied fearful of the public ostracizing of that now you think Like that doesn't make any sense.But put yourself in the position of a man who is
That man that we were just talking about, he's living at home, doesn't really interact with a lot of people, doesn't approach women, you know, right?Doesn't any of those things.And now he's at the coffee shop, right?
And he sees you sitting on the side and he musters up the energy to walk over.This is it.His whole life is about to flash before his eyes.And what do you say?
See he's crushed he's going back home He's he's he's um, you know, he's but but the point I guess the larger point is is that it is it's the fear of rejection also When it comes to guys and women We have to understand that there is a group of bad people And and that's called you heard about this dark triad and the dark tetrad know about this.
Um All right.So David Buss is one of the world's top evolutionary psychologists out of University of Texas.And he wrote this great book called Bad Men.I love this book.And he breaks down what he has framed as either the dark triad or dark tetrad.
And that is that if you are a man, but you could be a woman also who fit in these categories.One, you're a narcissist. Now, I think that's one of the most overused and misused words in pop culture today.
It's a clinical diagnosis, you know what I mean?Sure, we all have narcissistic traits, but it's a clinical diagnosis, and it is hands down less than 7% of the population, so it's a small group.But narcissists, full-blown narcissists, fit in that.
And what is a narcissist?A narcissist is at the end of the day, Who wants to use you like a cup of coffee, right?That is that when I'm finished with this cup, it's going in the bin.That's exactly what a narcissist will do to you, okay?
So that's what a narcissist is.And then you have a psychopath, right?I mean, psychopath, we don't have to go deep into it.It is someone who is going to inflict pain on you and they will feel nothing. They will feel nothing about that.
But then you have the third one is called a Machiavellian, right?And this is something that a lot of people aren't familiar with.
And the whole idea of someone who's a Machiavelli is someone who strategically goes about incorporating you into their life for a specific purpose. Right.So they're using you, but it's more of a long term play of using you.Right.
They're going to strategically do something devious to you.That's being a Machiavelli.Right.
It's terrible.Right.And that's the triad.But then the tetrad, they added that fourth person.And that is a sadist. And there's a good population of people who are sadists, and a sadist is someone who gets a kick out of seeing you in pain.
And there are a lot of people who fit this category.So if you are a sadist, you're a Machiavellian, you're a sociopath, you are a narcissist, you are a member of the bad boy or bad girl club.
But collectively, that group is still maybe 11, 12, depending on who you talk to, 12% of the population.
So the vast majority, over 80% of the population, are just people with bad behavior, people that don't have good guidance, folks who are just unsure of themselves.So the reason why I like to break that down is because
It's not like we're all dicks out here.It's one of these where we have to understand that there's behaviors that we're learning, we're just maturing.And then also too, because a lot of ladies say, man, but the guys are crazy.
You know, the fastest group, and ladies don't get mad at me on this, I'm just repeating the science, but the fastest growing group of narcissists are women right now.
that wouldn't surprise me.And it doesn't surprise me, because I mean, I'm the defender of the women, is that I feel like they felt under pressure to just take control.
And so they've had to develop some of these narcissistic traits to be able to survive.And I think a lot of it feels like almost like a coping mechanism in a world that the women are now under pressure to perform in the same way that men perform.
And actually, this is a great point to maybe discuss, like there are genuinely differences between men and women, like how we are, how we function, how we want to be loved.But yet the world is trying to make us feel like we have to be the same.
So how do women keep that feminine energy and men keep that masculine energy to work together?
Yeah.You know, this is I think this is such an important topic.But once again, I think we have to understand, you know, even in the presentation of that is, It is, once again, it is society applying a pressure onto us.
And then I think it's important to understand motivations of these pressures, right?So like, I'll take a page.So, you know, one of my jobs is, you know, I'm on TV.
you know, a lot of people will say, all right, Paul, well, you know, you're doing this so-and-so show, you know, that may reinforce a bad behavior, blah, blah, blah.And I say, you know what, at the end of the day, television is entertainment.
And what entertainment is positioned to do is it's positioned to scratch a pain point that you have.So as long as the audience exhibits a pain point or a need, there is going to be a piece of content that's going to scratch that need.
But my point, though, is that that's the reason why you have to realize that you have to be your own self-advocate.Right?
This is the reason why you have to figure out, well, what is it that I can take from that that's beneficial, but understand that maybe not all of it's going to be helpful to me.So that would be my response.
Wrote with with my wife and I you know, we we have our two boys we talk about everything everything with our boys and what we're trying to do is create an environment where they could come and talk to us about these topics and we can Openly debate them in our household because we know that they are our priority You know what?
I mean?Yeah, I think that's that's the best That's my best response.But also part of that is that's the importance of having
a crew, like having a tribe, having a group of people who share your values, who are cheerleading for you as you cheerlead for them, and who are constantly showing effort towards the relationship.
Typically, when you see that, you see someone who's in a good position.
Your crew is basically, what did your crew look like and how did you build that crew?
All right, well, I mean, not to go crazy sad on this, but you know, unfortunately, so my crew, the key member of my crew passed away, you know, recently, yeah.And it's interesting because,
I was always the type of person you like I keep like I like when I said, um, it's three to five You're like five is big right?That's me.
You know, I like two to three, you know, I mean and in my crew, I essentially had my basically my crew was like two and My crew was my wife and crew was my man, Andre.And he passed away.
And when he passed away, I remember consciously thinking, okay, you know, I need to add to my crew.Like, do I need to add?But I'm also on the no day one, I mean, only day ones.So my crew is my wife, you know, I have an extended crew outside of that.
And then another extended crew.So I have people that are good friends.I feel like I have multiple, like when I think about, let me think about this. When I think about 3 a.m.
friends, I probably feel like I have five or maybe even more actually, you know, 3 a.m.But my ride or die is my wife.
And that's the same with me with my husband.He's the one I call consistently and constantly for everything and nothing all at the same time, which is he likes it.I know he wants me just to call him for nothing.So, yeah.How would people find friends
and connect nowadays?Because as I wanted to talk about the topic of loneliness, what would they do to go about finding new friends?
This is a great question.So to go back to Robin Dunbar and the Dunbar rule, he talked about there's 150 friends in essence that we have.
What I is something that I deeply believe in is so there's a whole there's another researcher named Mark renovator He's a Stanford professor and he has a theory called strengthening weak ties.
He developed this in the In the late night, you know, I'm gonna go with this.
Sometimes you just need a reminder.So please go ahead.
Yes Yeah, so late 90s he developed that and I always merged the two and I love the two together this is kind of one of my life mantras and that is is that
We typically go to our nearest and dearest, our BFFs or our work colleagues or whatever, when we are searching for new opportunities.
Like, you want to get a new job, you want to, you know, so you go to those around you say, hey, you know, so you're always looking at the nearest and dearest, the close.
But what Mark Granovetter said is, no, the biggest opportunities that we get in life is from our weakest ties. The people who are in our social circle, but we don't interact with them enough.And who is that?
That could be the person you went to school with 10 years ago.That could be the person who you had the job with 15 years ago, right?The idea is that you know them, they know you, but you haven't really cultivated the relationship.
You haven't spent time with them. So the first place for me is not making the new friends, it's you probably already have a social circle that you haven't invested time into, right?So you go to your weak ties, that's one.Next is you fire friends.
I'm a big believer in this.People who you no longer are exerting effort towards, effort, right?That's interest.And people who are not exerting effort towards you, it's okay, right?Their season is gone.It's all good.It's all love.
You know what I mean?Add someone else in, right?Then how do you add someone else in?The best friends or the best people to add in our social circle are people who share our values. All right, values are a rule book to life.
And so you participate in those things where your values are aligned.You know what I mean?So what could that be?Activities.I'm a wannabe artist.My art skills are terrible, but I'm a wannabe artist.So I just went to, I go to a pottery class.
So I'm gonna meet people who share values around creativity.
You want to always be looking at how you can incorporate people who have new values in but remember the greatest Opportunities whether that be business opportunities or that that be romantic opportunities are going to come from your weakest ties So the key is cultivate those weaker relationships fire friends add new friends based on shared values.
I and not be afraid of rejection as well.Because sometimes people are scared to just reach out and send that DM or send that email or pick up the phone and give that person a call as well.
Because it's kind of scary, like trying to make a new friend versus even dating.
Yeah.No, I'm with you.And for some, scarier.
Yeah.Yeah.Okay.We're going to take it back to love and relationship.So, and I want to speak on behalf of my singles out there.What is the biggest mistake that singles are currently making right now?
All right.Can I say something about this question and also all the questioning?I've been thinking about this a lot.
I think this is part of society's issue around relationships.
So because of my role on television, there's a ton of TV interviews that I have to do, and radio interviews that I have to do.
And I always get stuff like, what's the biggest, what's the number one, what's, like, so basically, take a subject that is super nuanced, super complicated, there's a hundred research studies about, and break it and say, and Paul, tell me, what's the number one thing guys can say to girls?
And you know what's interesting, is sometimes I'll have to say it.It's like, you're on the radio, like, okay, I gotta say it. And I hear other experts and they will say it.They'll give these lists, right?
I definitely believe this is one of the challenges that we have with relationships is that we are getting these truncated blog, headline, catchy answers that don't speak to any research and just make us feel good. I'll give you an example.
This is not shade, this is not anything, but this is just fact.One of the most popular books in the relationship space is, and you probably have read it, right?
Do you know what love language is?Love languages.
Now, it's a great book. Yeah, it's a good stepping stone as well.
It's a good stepping stone.Everyone, everyone has read this book, or everyone's heard of Five Love Languages.
I know my love languages, supposedly.Supposedly, yeah.
See, it's like, I know mine too, right?You know your husbands, right?
Yeah, exactly.I would say that, I know that, yeah.
Now, a lot of people may be surprised to know, it's not based on any research. That book is not based on any empirical study, any peer-reviewed research, none of that.Now, is it a good book?Yeah.You know what it's based on?
It's based on Dr. Gary Chapman's observations as he's practiced as a counselor.Right.So it's great.It's based on observations.Great.
What's interesting about relationship science right now is that we know we now are receiving decades now of research.A lot of research around relationships have just begun.
A really good friend of mine, Dr. Terry Orbuck, leads the longest longitudinal study on couples in the world.Started in 1986.Not that long ago when you think about You know like a topic like cancer that's been studied for hundreds of years, right?
So relationships studied for like maybe that's almost 40 years But the beauty is that now we're beginning to get the research Attachment theory goes back maybe 70 years, but it's probably really been studied for the last 20 years.
Yeah, so we're beginning to get real studies around what we should be doing, what we shouldn't be doing.So the beauty is that we're now being informed by the science.It's no longer just observational.
So just to go back to the question of- My singles, just a little help.What they could do, it's like, there's a million things that could be done.I always say, and this sounds like, this may sound like I'm overstepping the answer is,
One of the best things, but there's lots, is you have to go back to you and how you show up.And when I say how you show up is, how about this, how about this?Do you know what your attachment style is?Not you, but to your audience.
And if the answer is no, then go on that journey. Maybe read Amir Levine's book on attachment.Maybe go online and do, there's lots of different attachment assessments.
Maybe just go read about the different attachment styles and ask yourself, based on how I grew up, is this, the idea is that we need to become intellectually curious about ourselves.
That's what I'm hearing, that actually, before you think about going into a relationship, is having a greater understanding of your actual needs and who you actually are before you think about adding another person to the mix.
Yes, yes.And then when you make that assessment of yourself, and you do that authentically, you realize, wow, there's all these things about me that could be better, that could be healed.You know what I mean?Maybe I'm avoidant.
Oh, wow, I see that my attachment style is avoidant.I'm a little avoidant.So for example, I have an avoidant attachment style, where I began as an avoidant attachment style.Why?
Being second generation, my parents were working multiple jobs, I'm feeling love sometimes from them, sometimes not, right?So it's one of these where
Once I ask these questions, I think back, I reflect, I understand who I am, I can begin to understand, well, now what do I need to heal?What journey do I need to go on to heal?What new skills do I need to develop?
Also, I always say, being Jamaican, I always felt like we're very cold, like don't touch me.So also I realized, okay, I know I need to learn to be more empathetic.I need to learn about emotional availability.I need to learn how to be emotive.
I need to learn how to express my words.All of these things that I'm learning about myself, the beauty is that it not only helps with my romantic relationship with my wife, it helps with my social relationships.It helps with everything.
So that's probably the first step.You need to get a big freaking mirror and look into it.
I don't think people will want to hear that.But also, once you do hear that and accept that, it's probably quite freeing.
To me, it's like building... Honestly, it feels like I have a superpower now.I feel like I am so aware of myself. and how I show up, it's helped me to be super confident.And also, I'm an introvert as well.People are like, what, you're an introvert?
Super introvert.As I get older, I become even more of an introvert.But my perception, my ability to communicate my message, my ability to understand what's happening, all of these things have changed when I started looking internally.
Yeah, so heal yourself and seek out also people who are healed if you if you actually want to be thinking about being in a relationship Yeah, yes.
Yes, but but and but real quick on that too is that so just to go back to let's say Attachment theory is that you know an attachment theory?there's there's different attachment styles, but the the 50% of the population is called secure right and
And I think that what we have to understand about a secure attachment style is you want to be in a relationship with someone who has a secure attachment style, right?Someone who's going to be consistent in the relationship with you.
But what is dangerous is that when you are secure and you enter a relationship with someone who doesn't have a secure attachment style, you can then change into an attachment style that's not secure.
So basically, when you are entering a relationship that's not good for you, that's harmful, maybe toxic, it's not just, oh, I can have fun.Oh, it is, no, no, no.You can be detrimentally damaged because of that.
Which goes back to, you gotta choose the right partners.
Is Instagram a good place to find someone in 2023?
Yeah, I mean, social is number two right behind dating apps in terms of how people are connecting. The more nuanced way is to get an introduction.So if you are introducing someone through a DM, that introduction is the most effective.
So an introduction is the most effective way to meet someone, point blank, period, without question.And the reason for that is because When you are introducing someone, you are pulling that person into their social circle at your level of respect.
So, let's say that someone, a friend is like, hey, what do your friends call you?They call you P or Pat?
All right.So they'd be like, Pat. Introduce me to blah, blah, blah, blah, right?So let's say Joey, okay?And you've known Joey for a while, Joey's cool with you, and Joey has a lot of respect for you.A lot of respect for you.
the moment that you introduce your friend, Vanessa, to Joey, Vanessa enters Joey's social circle at roughly the same level of respect that you have.So if he respects you, is he gonna ghost Vanessa or blah?No way.
No way, right?He's going to engage. in a very serious, in a very intentional way.So the introduction from friends who have respect with the person that you wanna get the introduction to, that's the most effective way.
And you could do that on IG, you could do that in person, any way.
There's a lot of choice nowadays though, which is one of the things that I hear coming over and over again.
We have a lot of questions from our audience is that the socials is actually causing issues because men might message multiple women on DMs and then might be commenting and then their girlfriend sees.So
do you feel like social has a negative impact as well?And what can people do about that?
That's been going on since, you know, the Hammurabi Code was written in 3000 BC.Like, fellas were always out here being scandalous, you know what I mean?It's one of these where It's really interesting.
Every generation says, it's never been harder to find somebody.Like my grandmother in Jamaica in the 1940s was saying, it's never been harder to meet somebody.
That's always been a thing.It's always been incredibly challenging.The difference with today versus at any point in the history of the world is that fewer people are in relationships.
Right.So that's the massive difference.The other part too is that, yeah, women could be messaging lots of people, guys could be messaging lots of people.
The question is that once you engage in a relationship that you two commit to each other, then it's about the actions of that person.And then the other thing I'll say is to try to defend the fellas is, Um, most guys have zero relationships.
So this is very important.I think the perception is that you walk down the street, you see 10 guys, nine of them have six women.
No, you walk down the street, you see 10 guys, eight of them have no women.Two of them have 20 women apiece.
Wow.So how do you separate the eight from the other two with the 20 women?
I don't know, because they're at home with their mama, you know what I mean?Oh my gosh.Playing video games.But that's what it is.It's very 80-20.It is, you know, we see it on the apps.
You know, there is a smaller percentage in particular of guys who have who are just running wild out here.
What is it about them?What's their secret sauce that they get all the women?
I mean, a lot of them fit the dark tetrad that I mentioned.You know, it's like this cup.So they don't care.They'll just use you.OK, the cup, the coffee is hot right now.It's cold.
So women are attracted to that then?
There are certain behaviors that the dark tetrad presents that absolutely women are attracted to.For example, all of those people in the dark tetrad are ultra confident.Who doesn't think confidence is sexy?You know what I mean?
They're ultra confident.Secondly is they're typically very charismatic. Yeah, right who doesn't want someone's charismatic third is because they Self-indulge and care more about themselves than anyone else.
They're the ones that are gonna be in the gym all day long Right, they've got like perfect Symmetrical the best, you know thighs and biceps and abs they've got so so so chances are so you see like the behaviors that show up
Those are going to be the ones that are that are super, but that's this is why I say that. Everything that I've just mentioned has no bearing on a partner who's right for you.What are the traits of a partner that's right for you?
You want someone who is going to be kind.You want someone who's going to be courageous.You want someone who's going to be resilient.You want someone who's going to be emotionally stable, which a lot of people don't talk about.
Emotional stability is one of the most important things in a partner.You want someone who's going to be emotionally intelligent. Those are the types of characteristics that you want.
So, but yeah, but that's the reason why the two guys have the 20 apiece.
So we have this question here, which is honesty, sexual attraction, loyalty.If you could have any two of these three qualities in a relationship, which two would you want and which one would you drop?
But even asking that, I can tell that you're like, no, you're not going to drop one.You're not going to drop one.
Exactly.So I'm a pack exactly.This is this is the kind of stuff that we have to Now we've got to push back on.
Mm-hmm We gotta say you know why questions like this become so popular for everybody to talk about is Because of like is like social for example.Yeah, this is a great question You can see you throw up a poll people debate it out.
It drives engagement like all this stuff But when it comes down to it you wouldn't drop one.So what's the point of even debating something that you wouldn't do?
Right, exactly.So loyalty is something that I feel is becoming more and more questionable in today's single society.How do people deal with infidelity and cheating and it becoming more and more okay?
I think you and I probably have very similar values, so I think we're going to end on the same side, but I will say that I am open enough to realize there is no right side, right?
And that is that there are many people who, so one is you have to identify, well, what is infidelity, okay?Because for some people, it's completely different.I have a colleague who is one of the shows and she has an open marriage.
She and her husband have sex with different people and they have guidelines around who they can have sex with and what they can do with that person, but they have sex with people who are not themselves. In their relationship, that's not infidelity.
In the relationship I have with my wife, that's definitely infidelity.That's infidelity, 100%.Right?So the question becomes, you have to define what that is, which why I say you got to go back to you, what you're comfortable with.
You then create your value structure, your boundaries, and you find somebody who matches that.So that's number one.You have to define what that is.Number two is we have to understand that
Infidelity, or should I say non-monogamy, has been the majority of the history of this world, and actually is the majority of the current, of the present of this world.
So not to go super nerdy, but there's this thing called the ethnograph that looks at, there's 1,200 societies in the world, and out of the 1,200 different societies in the world, Do you know that 85% of them are non-monogamous?
In other words, only 15 penalize high-status men from having a non-monogamous relationship. So that's why I say you have to define all that.You have to define that.But then the end of the question is you define it and then you hold to it.
This is the reason why boundaries are everything in a relationship.And you only see people hold on to boundaries who are entirely, who have high self-esteem.It's directly connected to our self-esteem.
And so if you don't erect boundaries in your relationship, you'll turn even well-intentioned people into bullies. So you have to hold on to that, you hold on to your boundaries, but ultimately you have to define what it means to you.
And I've noticed there's, you know, a move towards ethical non-monogamy where everyone is kind of aware of what's going on and accepting it.And I think society has a hard time with that.But again, I think it's culturally specific.
I had an uncle with two wives.So, and he had a house for one wife and house for another house, another wife next door in South London.So for me, it was like, okay, some uncles have two wives.
So it wasn't the scariest thing in the world to me, but I don't know if I would want that for myself.
No, and also, you know what's interesting about ethical non-monogamy, and this also gets looped into sex positivity right now, is when you look at the research, do you know who has the lowest satisfaction in non-monogamous relationships?Women.Women!
When you look at the satisfaction rate of men who have, I'll say polyamorous relationships, and those who have monogamous relationships, the satisfaction rate is relatively the same.
So that means that they don't, it's like, but women have much lower satisfaction.Now, why would that be?
because they're not the ones cheating and enjoying, or maybe they should stop.
Well, you know what?Yeah, I mean, that's part, but then also the reason why is because, and we know this being in marriages is that the key to the greatest sex is emotional intimacy.
By far, by far, which is why all of my, I have a lot of mentees. Who are mostly men in their like mid-20s and their number one question is Paul I just can't see having sex with the same woman for the rest of my life like that That's like on the low.
That's always what they say.Oh, I don't know.How do you do? How do you do it?And how do they do that?Yeah, and I say, I was like, little bro, look, this is the bottom line.
The bottom line is that I have better sex than you, and I have more sex than you.And the reason why I know this is because every study, right, but this is also what I know, but every study shows that the higher emotional intimacy you have,
the higher your satisfaction is in the sex.Now there's biological reasons for that.Why?
Things like you excrete more oxytocin, probably other things, but you excrete more oxytocin when you have a strong emotional connection with someone, and oxytocin is what boosts up the fact that you feel satisfied with whatever's happening.
And there's lots of other reasons, but the point here is that when you have a a close relationship with someone that you adore, life becomes better in every way.And that's what I really try to explain to them.
But going back to why women have lower satisfaction in non-monogamous relationships is because they don't get the same level of emotional intimacy that they would get in a monogamous relationship.
Amazing.I love it.And I think we're going to talk about that more because what we've done is we have spoken to the community and asked them some of their questions and some of their dilemmas, which I would love to get you to address for me.
And we were just talking about sex.So I'd love to kind of expand on that a little bit more.So one of the questions we have here is, is sex on the first date a bad way to start a relationship?
depends on your values, right?So it's by no means a deal breaker.A lot of people say, oh, if you have sex.
So I think the last thing I saw is that still there's a countless number of people who are in committed relationships who've had sex or some type of sexual contact on the first date.
The question is, did you feel manipulated or pushed or coerced into that?
That's the question the most important thing that we can do is to be confident in who we are What our boundaries are and if sex is something that you want to do your body is within your own authority So that's something that you want to do That's something that the partner wants to do and that's something within your value set do it It's not going to prevent a long-term relationship.
Okay, and So all of these hard and fast rules, like definitely don't do it, wait six months, all of this doesn't actually mean anything.Not at all.
I mean, we'd have to talk about it, but anything I could think of right now, not at all.Not at all.
How do people deal with mixed and matched sex drives in a longer term relationship?
Yeah.All right.So this is a really good question.And we have to understand that, like, what is it that impacts our libido, right, and either drives up our desire for more sex or lessens our desire for sex?
Well, the number one determinant around lowering our libido is stress. This is really what devastates relationships.
And so ultimately, whenever I see couples who are going through bouts of, you know, not having sex, chances are you could find an extreme level of stress in the relationship.
It could be economically, it could be stress for something else, you know, maybe a family member's passed away, et cetera.
So the key is to I say is when you when you if you've gone from a place of lots of sex To now one person has lost their their drive a key is to look at stress as a driver That's a key.
That's a key place to begin Doesn't sound the most sexy to be thinking about stress To be the reason as to why you're not, you know getting it on basically.
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting our body is our vessel.And this is why it's so important in your teens, in your 20s, is to take care of your body.This is becoming more and more and more important.
And ultimately, it is stress that is what inflames a lot of the issues that we have.
And how would someone keep the spark alive?So they're not stressed.They're not, you know, in a bad situation.They're just bored of each other.What do they do?Yeah.
All right.So this, I love this.All right.So there's lots of things, obviously, right, that we could do.But a key thing is to understand that If you feel bored with your partner, but you adore your partner, it's just like there's no spark.
The key is to actually think about how you could do novel things with your partner.Because ultimately, that's what led you most likely to fall in love.You were two new people doing everything that was new.
And the fact that everything was new, it became interesting.And the biology is that's where the dopamine comes in, the bonding agent, right?Wow, we do something new, dopamine goes in their brain, boom, we bond.
So the key is you want to think about, well, what are new things that you could do together?You know, going back to pottery, it was my wife and I who did the pottery class together.We were like, wow.
We saw it on Ghost, it looked super sexy in the movie, like, let's do this.So think about new things that both of you have an interest in, do those new things, and I guarantee you, bam, spark is going off.
That's the way to get it going.This is a great one.Why do men ghost me when it seems all is going well and mutual?
All right, because there's a couple reasons.One, because they're a member of the dark tetrad.Two, because they're just an idiot.Three, because things are not going well.There's all of these reasons.
I think what you have to tell yourself whenever that happens is it was a blessing that you're no longer involved with someone like that.
Okay, that's a really good way to like think about it.Like you take the L and move on.
You take an L and actually it's not even L from a loss standpoint because ultimately if someone ghosts you at the end of the day, it just means that they don't care enough. to express why they're not interested.
And if they don't care enough to do that, they would never have made a good partner for you, ever.So it's a win, it's a win.
Love that, wow.Actually, there were a lot of women bringing up the kind of financial discussion.How do you come to terms with a man who can't take initiative because he's financially unstable, even though he's driven?
And I've seen a lot of ones that have came up about a man and his money and how he manages it.
Yeah.All right.So you're saying he's driven, but he is financially unstable.So what does that really mean?Does it mean he doesn't have a job or like what?
he could be one of those dreamers.I can't, she hasn't expanded.But is he a dreamer?Is he a gambler?Is he just not smart with his money?Let's just take it as that, maybe.
But see, once again, like, I mean, if he's, there's a big difference between being a dreamer and being a gambler, you know?So ultimately, here's what I would go back to is I would go back to, I truly believe, right, that there are,
five fundamental traits that you need to identify in a partner.So once again, going back, it's emotional fitness being one.And that includes someone who is emotionally stable and emotionally available.That's very important.
Then you have someone who is resilient.Okay, it's very important.Then you have someone who's kind.This is very important.Then you have someone who is courageous.And last but not least, you have someone who's curious.
If you have those traits in that man, then he is golden.He's golden.If you don't have one of those traits, you are going to have a terrible relationship, right?
The fact that he has six zeros in his bank account or five zeros in his bank account, I mean, we could debate that out, but those are the keys.So the money doesn't matter. I mean, if the money matters to you, it matters.
The girls would be happy to hear that.
Yeah, yeah.If it matters to you, it matters.Absolutely.Yeah, yeah.
When would you join finances with a partner and how do you discuss it?
All right.You discuss that right out the gate. When I say right out the gate is once you've decided that, so the way I look at the journey of dating, right, is first it's just, you're just hanging out, it's just a vibe, right?
And then ultimately you get to the point where you both decide mutually that you want to commit to each other.It might not be marriage, you might move into each other, but you commit, you say, we are exclusive.
The moment that you have entered that exclusivity or you're about to enter that exclusivity, that's when you need to have the hard conversations, right?You need to know what your actual goals are.Do you want to be married?Is it cool if you're not?
Are you talking about children or you don't even need it?Finances is a big part of that conversation.Now, most people right now have separate bank accounts.They don't even have a joint account.
But the highest satisfaction relationships, you could probably guess, they have what?They have a joint account.The highest level have a joint account.
And the reason why is because ultimately a joint account means that you have ultimate trust in your partner. Is it smart to go into a committed relationship and then just jump into a joint account?
No, like no, I always say have your side money, right?Have your side money.
But when you've reached the point where you're talking about marriage, you're talking about a lifelong commitment, I always say this, and this is just my opinion is, if you don't feel as if you can trust someone financially, how can you trust them with your heart?
Like, really, how could you do that?If you don't trust them with your money, your heart is much more precious.And then don't even talk about children.That's a whole other level.So the money becomes, I think, a good litmus test.
It's like, all right, if I don't even trust you with my money, then Why are we doing this?Wow.
That is insane.But actually it's a really, again, litmus test is the right word.How do you feel about that person with their money?Yeah.And would you share your bank account with them at some point in time?
At some point in time.And also too is, you know, put training wheels on them. Say, okay, here's what we're going to do.All right, we're now, we're exclusive.
Now, yeah, I'm going to keep my, I'm going to have my own independent accounts, but let's do a joint account.Let's see how you manage this thing.Let's see what you do with it, right?
Let's really practice this relationship and see, is this something that you could do?And if that is of high importance to you, which it was of high importance to me, you know, then you get to witness it.
And that way you don't have to assign value to the words, assign value to the actions.
That's an amen.And do you know what's interesting?It seems like a very mature approach.Like you're actually being intentional about relationship.And when I think about maybe my friends or people I know, they're not thinking about it this way.
I'm not gonna lie.They're not thinking about bank accounts and testing.They're thinking about, is he gonna take me out for dinner?Is he gonna pay?Is he gonna call me?
Like that level of maturity isn't the current approach to people right now that I've seen.
No, no, no, that's not just your friends.That is everybody.And it goes back to, when you're talking about society, it goes back to the Disneyfication of relationships.
And it's like, oh, we see each other, we fall in love, it's all easy, we don't have to put work in it.But actually, we have to put more work into our romantic relationships than any other part of our life.
And what we have to think about is that when it comes to your career, are you proactive?Are you strategic?Are you prepared?Are you practice?Are you... Absolutely.When it comes to your health, are you strategic?Are you practice?Are you prepared?
Absolutely.When it comes to your parenting, are you... Absolutely.So when it comes to your romantic life, it's important to be just as intentional.And what I find to be really interesting, and I love the change in this, is that historically women
a lot of women waited to just be selected.It was like, we're just going to be selected by these guys.But what I love is there's this evolution of the woman that says, you know what?No, I'm gonna choose, right?And I think that's powerful.
It's powerful when you have two people who say, I am choosing you, I'm intentional about you.So yeah, so be intentional.
I love that.What is your take on forgiving your partner for cheating?
A lot of infidelity questions.Let's go back to the research on it.So you know that most relationships where heterosexual relationships where the man has cheated and he has asked for forgiveness, most of those relationships continue.
So when I say relationship, really the study was done around marriages.So most of those marriages continue.Now, when the study has been done and the woman has cheated and she comes back and asks for forgiveness, most of those marriages end.
But there's two different perspectives on why it's either ending or staying together.From the man's point of view, typically it is the physicality of the infidelity that has wrecked with ego and said, I can't deal with this anymore.
On the woman's side, typically it is the question of Was there an emotional connection with whoever that was?And a lot of the times, the guy will say, it wasn't.And a lot of times, it wasn't.It was just sex, right?Or what's said is just sex.
And then there's this reconciliation of, OK, emotionally, there was no connection.So therefore, we can still carry on.Now, I'm not going to say one is right, one is wrong, because it's dependent on you.But that's the reason why it happens.
So to the answer, the question is, can you do it?
Yeah, can you and should you?
Yeah, so can you is yes, it can be done.The studies prove it out.Should you is you.That's why it goes back to your boundaries and what you state.On the fifth year of our marriage, my wife came to me and she said, you know what?
I don't like how things are going. I have decided that, and she was just like that, very a matter of fact.She was like, I've decided I want an all or nothing marriage.I was like, well Joe, what does that mean?She said, this is what I need.
To be, I need all in, this is what all in looks like.It's this big freaking list right here.These are all the things that I need you to do, right?Or I want this, nothing.And I looked at the two, I was like, I guess I'll go with it.
There's a list of jobs to do that you had to do.
I'll go with the all.But the point though is that she wasn't playing.She was basically saying, if we can't do these things, then we can't do anything.
And so I think that's why it's very important to walk into the relationship very secure in who you are, very secure in what the parameters are, you know, in the relationship.
How would someone know when it's time to walk away?
Mmm, you know I've been saying Throughout our conversation a lot about effort equals interest and I really think that's at the end of the day That's ultimately what it is.Is that?
unfortunately, you know so right now that the number one period of time in which people are divorcing or separating is low 40s to low 50s like
43 to 53 and the reason for that is because typically you have a couple who's going through empty nest Their child is now off and out of the house or during that time A lot of people have financial difficulties, right and it's the inability to resolve the conflict that causes the breakup But also what's happening is that you look at your partner and you say I don't even know you anymore And I don't even like you anymore
and therefore I'm not willing to change.And whenever I think you're in a position where someone is not willing to put effort in, that thing is dying.A relationship to me is like a shark Going through the river.
I'm going through the river going through the water, right?It's a shark going through the water whereas a shark Must continue to go through in order to do what get the oxygen if it's not in constant flow constant movement.It is what?
It's dying a relation a relationship is the same way.There's no such thing as stagnation It is either growing where it is dying, right?
I want to do something fun that I Cause this one is just a straight up, where do I find my husband?Smiling, crying face.
Oh man, oh man.Well, you know, I work for Tinder.So come check us out on Tinder.But really, I'll tell you where you find them.You find them in your weakest ties, right?So the key is that you've got to activate everything.
But I always say the most important place to activate is yourself.Like come alive.What's interesting is whenever I meet somebody that's doing their passion, they're alive.I can see, this is you.You're in the zone, you're locked in.
And when you're in the zone, when you're doing your passion, you know what happens?People gravitate towards you.They want to watch you.They want to be on the show with you.They want to invite you somewhere.They want to be around you.
You're in your flow.This is the key.When you are doing the thing that you love, Everything around you is like a tide, it just rises, right?So that's why I say, you turn yourself on. That's what you do.You turn yourself on.
And I guarantee you when you do that, you're going to see so many things.You're going to be invited to this place.You're going to be asked to do this.And that's going to create more strengthening weak ties.
You're going to look better because you're going to have the outfit song when you go to do your thing.So that's the first place is you turn that on.But then also do the practical things.Be on the apps, get introductions, do all those things.
I love that.And I think we can end it right here.You'll find your husband very soon.Well, I appreciate having you on today.That was an amazing conversation.
I really feel like this is a conversation anyone in relationship wanting to think about it, single or dating.This is the one for them to watch.I think there's so much value here in this discussion.I appreciate having you on.Where can people find you?
I mean, I'm real easy, Paul C. Brunson.I try to stay consistent across the social, so yeah, that's where you can get me.
All right, appreciate it.Well, thank you so much.
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