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This month is all about gratitude, and I'm grateful for a lot of things, Erlon, including you.
Oh, right back at you, Nodge.
And you know what?There's a person we don't often remember to thank, ourselves.
Yep, like buy ourselves some flowers or something.When's the last time you did that?
Exactly.You know, in a way, that's what therapy is.It's doing something nice just for you.BetterHelp empowers you to be the best version of yourself.
Yeah, therapy isn't only for people who experience major trauma.It's helpful for all of us.And BetterHelp is entirely online, convenient, and flexible.
Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist.
Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp.
Visit betterhelp.com slash EarHustle today to get 10% off your first month.
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My name is Alice Woods.And I'm Erlon's mother.This episode of Ear Hustle contains language and content that may not be suitable for all listeners.Discretion is advised.
A lot of people out here today.
My name is Vincent O'Bannon.
What's going on out here today?
Today they're having the staff and incarcerated residents baseball game.Softball game, rather.Softball game, yes.
There are so many people out here today.
Yes, there are the wardens out here.We have captains, lieutenants, sergeants, the PIO, medical staff, office staff. and, of course, the residents.
Oh, look at the CO dancing.Oh, my God.I can't believe they're doing that on the yard.
Okay, this was a very new kind of vibe on the yard that day.
Yeah, that's the California model in action.
We should probably explain what you mean by that.
All right.The California model is this new plan or this new idea put forward by California Governor Gavin Newsom.And the idea is to make prisons a little more like the outside world.
So when, you know, individuals get ready to parole, you know, they can have a successful transition.
Right, I think they're trying to make life inside prison maybe mirror just a little bit of life outside.
Sort of start thinking about making prison, Erlan, I can't believe I'm saying this, comfortable or normal, which are two words you just don't really put together with the idea of prison.
So now you got stuff like incarcerated guys and COs playing pickleball together.
I mean, that type of shit would have never happened when I was inside.But the idea of being comfortable in prison is very controversial.
Definitely.And you know what?I bet us even saying it is going to get the ire up of some people.
Well, it may, but that's what make it a good topic for the first episode of our new season.
Yep.It's always good to start the season off with something that's a little provocative.
I'm Nigel Poor.And this is Ear Hustle from PRX's Radiotopia.
I think we started getting interested in this idea about a year ago when we were working on that 12 hours on a yard episode.
Right.That was the episode where we spent basically sunup to sundown out on the San Quentin yard just to experience what happens in a full day there.
Right.And that's when we ran into that one guy who had just arrived at San Quentin.
So how are you guys doing?
Wait, so is this your first time in prison?
Nah, this is like my 8th, 9th time.
Yeah.Is it your first time in San Quentin?Yeah, my first time in San Quentin.It's lovely though.
Wait, wait, wait.Come back here.
Is it recidivist or are you violating or what?Institutionalized. I feel more comfortable in here than on the streets, you know?So I stay committing crimes, you know, like high-speed chases, stuff like that.
And I don't know, I just feel more comfortable in prison than out of prison, because I've always done time since I was a kid.You know, I started off in juvenile hall, then the ranches, county jail, and now prison.And I just can't stop, you know?
Are you saying you'd rather be here?
Well, I'm just used to it, I guess. What do you think it would take for you to not feel like that?I don't know, some kind of coping skills, something that would make me understand that outside's better and something in here is a lot worse.
Wait, so you don't feel sad when you come back?
I mean, I do, because I leave my family and everyone behind, but at the same time, I'm more comfortable in here.I don't really know what to do when I get out.
So is it gangs?Is it drugs?Is it no job?What do you think?
I don't know, I always been lonely, so I just stick to what I do and just don't care anymore, you know?
I remember when we were out there and the inside crew heard this guy, and I could see it on their faces, they were floored by it.I don't think they could believe that there was some guy who would admit to this.
Yeah, they were like, damn, is this cat for real? Can you share this mic, okay?Okay.All right, so we are here in San Quentin in the Ear Hustle studio, which is the media lab, and we have everyone here that's on the team.
And we're here because we wanted to listen to this tape with you and then talk about your reactions, kind of what you were struck by, and together explore this idea.
So let's do it.And before we do that, I want everyone to introduce themselves.This is Tom. Tony DeFoya, Sadiq.
This is also Tony, Tony DeTrinidad.I was really surprised by what he said, by the fact that he's even willing to admit it to himself.You know what I mean?That to me was what really impressed me about this guy and what was different.
So I think there are a lot of people who are very comfortable inside, probably not ready to admit it to other people, let alone themselves.
Yeah.So wait, do you think that that's an inner shame then that people hold that are incarcerated, that they're comfortable?
I don't know if it's like inner shame.I think it's just something like people don't want to admit out loud.I don't know what their reason would be for but like certain things I wouldn't want to admit on the mic.
I mean, he was raw with it.He was willing to admit that.And we were strangers and we had a microphone.So this was him being him.And it made me sad because I like life could be so much flyer.
It could be so much more beautiful, just so much more to it than just going in and out of jail.And so I was like, man, I hope you see better for yourself than that one day.
I know.You know, the thing that really stuck out to me was when he said he's lonely.I was like, Oh God, that really hurt to hear that.
Yeah.Yeah.Loneliness.Tony one.Um, loneliness is what really stuck out to me because that's really like the crux of why he keeps coming back.But also we were using the term comfortable, right?
Like I'm comfortable in prison, but I don't want to be here.
You know, Nige, I think we all felt that we had to explore this idea just a little bit more.So what better opportunity for your talk?
Exactly.So let's listen to what we got.So what are we on the hunt for today?
Our main question right now is to find out how people feel about being comfortable inside what it looks like.
Comfortable inside prison.Whoa.
Being too comfortable.No, not for me.I'm never too comfortable.Is there such a thing as being too comfortable on the inside?
Yes.Anytime you want to be here, something is definitely wrong.Because this is not a place for anybody to really want to be.
Do you ever feel like maybe you might be more comfortable inside?No, absolutely not.That thought has never crossed my mind that I belong in here or that I like it in here.Absolutely not.I think of society almost every day.
I've been down almost five years.I do not feel comfortable.I have never felt comfortable.Family man and a business owner, and this is so far from that, it's just, no, there's no comfort level.Honestly, it's like I was dropped onto another planet.
Okay, so a lot of these guys were like, no way, that is not me.But what's interesting, Erlon, is when you ask the question in a slightly different way, you get a different answer.
Right.And I know that there are a lot of guys who feel like prison is easier than life on the outside.And for them, it probably is.
Have you ever come to find that some things in prison are a little easier or a little more comfortable than they are outside?
A little less worrisome?No.What about rent?
Rent?Is rent easier?Yeah, rent's easier.And insurance, medical costs.Yeah, I guess, you know, now that you talk about it.No driver's insurance and no driver's license and, you know, no wife.
I saved a lot of money there.
Tell us more about that one.
I mean that, you know, you have a wife, you have expenses, and if you don't have a wife anymore, you don't have expenses.
You were down 18 years?18 years?Like, let me ask you this, man.Sometimes being in prison can be a lot easier than being outside, right?
Oh, yeah.You better believe it.Outside is danger.You see the news, what's going on?All the cartels and the gangs, they start come back.
The streets right now, that's the new prison.You see what's going on out there?Killings and stabbings and shootings and... You don't even have that in prison no more.
Do you feel safer in here?
In a way I do because I've heard of people that they're in here for so many years and they get out and next thing you know we hear that they died, they got killed.
My name is Patrick Gonzalez and I've been incarcerated for a little over 20 years.
Dom, who is this cat?This is Patrick.I know him from the Dirty Nickel, right, in North Block.I wanted to talk to him about being comfortable inside, because he's been down a while, about 20 years or so.I was kind of curious about what he'd say.
When I started, I began in level four in Calipat.I was originally sentenced to 33 to life.So right away, I knew I was never going home.I just became, like I said, I was institutionalized.I go, this is part of my life.
My own thinking came, I'm going to die in prison. But now, Patrick's getting ready to go home, and he's a little worried about it.As my time became shorter and shorter, these thoughts started coming in, what do I got to go out for?
What is there left out there?I'm going to be 56 next year.I'm not in the best health.And like I said, the first years of prison, I didn't get no education, no vocation.I wasted a lot of years that I wish I hadn't.
And right now, I'm going to have a lot of obstacles against me. It's going to be almost like an impossible task compared to in here.I feel I get everything, even insurance.I had my heart attack last year.
And as soon as I had my heart attack and I came back from the hospital, any little health issue that I had, staff or medical or whoever, I felt they were looking out for me.Even though this is prison, I felt like family.
And I feel I have more love here than I do out there. It may sound weird, but that's just the way I feel.Yeah.
Are there things about life inside prison that make you more comfortable or easier than life outside the walls?
Yeah.Um, I got into crime originally just so I wouldn't have to go to the DMV.And so ultimately prison is kind of like, you know, just the full manifestation of avoiding, you know, bureaucratic paperwork.
Can you say more about that?
Well, it's been working out pretty well.I haven't gone to the DMV in probably over 20 years, and I'm really happy with that.
Is that so Kelton?Yeah, that's Kelton.It's like, you know, he's bullshitting you, but there's also a grain of truth to what he's saying.
Yeah, he definitely say some shit that's gonna raise some eyebrows.
Also, here's the thing.If you guys want more of a straight answer, I'll give you a straight answer.I just thought I'd maybe give you something to work with.
Since I've come to San Quentin, and there's like a college here, an on-campus college, I can essentially just focus entirely on schoolwork and my own personal studies.And so my life consists almost entirely of reading and writing.
I don't talk about it very much because
A lot of people in here don't like it, but I've found so much appreciation for being able to get up in the morning and simply come and not have to worry about paychecks, not have to worry about rent, not have to worry about where my food's coming from, because I know it's there.
I have a bed, I have meals, they're not great meals, right?The cot isn't that great, but I get to spend all of my day, every day, doing academic work.
How many people out there have a stack of books on their shelf that they want to read someday and they don't have time for it, right?Well, I have time to read that stack of books.
If you think about today in the modern day, how much do people pay for meditation retreats?
Erlon, this is Arendt.Do you remember this guy?
Yep, he's another cat from our 12 Hours on the Yard episode.We call him the Birdman.
Yep, he stands out on the yard all day long.And he, I would say, really communes with the pigeons.
All my meals are taken care of.I don't have to think about or worry about anything.I mean, all I have to do is I could just meditate and I can cultivate my being and I'm doing it for free.Works for me. I'm a lifer, right?I'm serving a 16th life.
But, you know, that was a relaxing point when I got that sentence.It was like a relief.I'm like, well, at least I know what I'm going to be doing for that long.
When they did all these laws, you know, it was like people trying to pull me out of my comfort zone almost. Does that make any sense?
You mean when they were changing laws, you might be able to get out sooner?Yeah.That was stressful for you?
No, but it was like a, it was like a weird little, it was just a weird little tickle on my spidey senses kind of thing.And I'm just like, geez, man, I'm just trying to sit here and relax, you know?
Okay, so we're back inside with the Inside team.And hearing that tape, I'm wondering, like, what do you guys think the listeners are gonna make of what they had to say?
He's not ready.So when you're ready to get out, it's like, you know, you know what you want.You have people out there to lean on that can help you with those things.You know, that's how you know when you're ready.
You know, you dealt with your emotions, you dealt with things that you have to deal with, you dealt with your crime, you dealt with anything that you feel like that might be a barrier that be in your way when you get out there.
When I hear Aaron, I hear somebody that's scared to get out, you know.Obviously, he feel like, you know, I've been doing this for so long, I'm comfortable.I don't want to go out there and deal with no stress.I don't have to deal with bills in here.
I don't have to deal with anything.Like, where am I going to go?It's like I got to start my life all over.
But can you imagine people on the outside hearing this and being like, what the hell?Really?Prison is like a retreat?This is too cushy.
It is.I think it should be a meditation retreat.Trust me.You want me on a meditation retreat.I went out there and committed a horrible crime.I need to sit down, think about what I did, and change a little bit.
So maybe it's not such a bad thing for us to sit down and meditate a little bit.But don't get it twisted.It's not all fun and games in here.
Also, Aaron isn't really saying it here, but he was unhoused.Unhoused meaning that he was homeless.And I know having a place to sit where he can feel safe, where he can explore in his mind, that feels like freedom to him.
I always look at it like I'd rather be, you know, unhoused, homeless, whatever you want to say.I'd rather be that than here because I can go and change my circumstances out there, you know, with the free will to do so.
Erlon, you ever been homeless?
I've never been homeless.
I could see your face.He was like, I don't like this comment.No, but look, look, no.I mean, what is homeless?
So, I don't know.It's different for everybody.For me, it's just the fact that I didn't have a home.I didn't have a home to go home to every night, so I was running the streets.
I never slept on a sidewalk, but I was lucky enough to break into a place and sleep, you know what I mean?Or save up for a hotel room.But it's a constant survival.
And one thing I know about prison is it's not necessarily a constant survival for your food and your shelter.
I agree with Tony too, right?
That maybe you haven't been as homeless for a long time or anything because I was homeless when I was like 14 and not having food to eat, scratching my legs till they bled because the bugs were biting me from sleeping on the bushes.
At that time, I would have rather traded being incarcerated, which I shortly after I did. That's why I kind of understand when people say it.I'm not saying I want it now, but I have different goals in life now, and you're a driven person.
You guys started a podcast, but other people in here, maybe they're not there yet.They're just like, hey man, I'm cool with just getting fed.I could feed birds and read books.
I've never been homeless, but I can see how having structure and uniformity feels really good.And I think that might be where the idea of being institutionalized comes from.I mean, I have institutionalized parts about myself.
I wake up at the exact same time every day.I do the same schedule.I get very anxious when something happens that is out of the norm, but I definitely don't want to be here.
And so I think that's the difference between comfortable and institutionalized.
You know, the word institutionalized is a hard word to swallow, you know, and it's probably harder for individuals to even admit to it.
Yes.And I think it's also harder to understand because people don't see themselves as institutionalized.
They don't want to see that they have created a safety bubble or like a little harbor for themselves within structure that was never meant to allow them to grow or change or help them to become better people.
When someone tells you there's no institutionalization in me at all, they're lying.They're lying to you because we all have a little bit.Some have more than others, but we all have a little bit.
If on a scale of 1 to 10, how institutionalized are you?I'm up there pretty high.I'm probably a 9.
Does that worry you?That you just threw out 9?
Yeah, no.Because I have to have a certain amount of comfort with the life I have daily.You know what I mean?So that's, you know what I mean?I'm at peace, you know what I mean?It's like I'm not really... I don't feel like my day is horrible.
You know what I mean?I got a lot of family and friends and people that I've talked to and I'm in touch with and I get a visit here and there and so I have some meaning in my lifestyle.
What if it's more adaptability?You've adapted and then when you get out you'll adapt to that too.
Yeah, and you know, the older you get the easier it is to just accept that there's a better way.Like crime.Crime's a young man's thing, you know? I go to sleep at 8, 8.30, 9 o'clock.Like I wouldn't even go to the nightclubs or anything anymore.
I don't, there's nothing there for me.You know, it's, yeah, yeah.
You're like, I'm okay to be home by 7.30, sit on the couch.It's weird.I know these young guys are like, what?But it happens.It'll happen to you too.
My name is Robert Belfield.I've been incarcerated for 13 years.
Are you comfortable inside?
In my country, I gotta be comfortable.I gotta survive.
Okay.How do you feel about that?
I'm disgusted with it, right?To be truthful.
Right.We were asking the difference between being institutionalized and comfortable inside.And they said being institutionalized means you have a routine and you're doing the same thing over and over again.
And being comfortable inside means that you're kind of taking care of yourself and you're growing.That's interesting, right?
It's very interesting.How do you feel about that?
I thought it was like an aha moment because I thought that's probably true.That you could be comfortable in here and it doesn't mean you're stagnating.You're still growing and changing and you're making the best of your situation.You're adapting.
I'm really processing that response right there, right?Because if being institutionalized means you're just doing a routine every day, then that means even on the streets you could be institutionalized.Right?
Like, are you comfortable in life or are you institutionalized?Real question.
I think I'm partially institutionalized because I love routine.I feel very comfortable with routine.But I also like to put myself in new situations and be challenged.So I think I'm 50-50.
But I definitely, I like what you said about you can be institutionalized outside.I think it's really true.
What do you guys think about that, being institutionalized outside?
Sadiq here, I think it's true.You know, people get caught in routines and when something is out of place or something that they probably freak out as well.
I'm not out there, but I have been on the street and I was like routine with a lot of the stuff.So going to work, whatever else you're doing, shower, drop the kids off, eat.It's all the same.It's routine.
So definitely on the streets, I think people are institutionalized.
People really create their own little fears and worries and routines.They got to stick to them and they got these bills that are beholden to, and then they get kids and they got like all this responsibility that just weighs them down.
And here, after a certain point, people are almost liberated by their institutionalization.They don't have to worry about so much.They get to pursue one craft or a piece of art or whatever it is they really are passionate about.
They often find the time in here to be free to pursue that, right?
So do you think being institutionalized is doing the same thing over and over again without really considering why you're doing it?
I think being institutionalized is a mental state.Like it's, um, I have to be, maybe it has to do somewhat with routine, but it's like, I have to do this certain way.Otherwise it's not right.
Yeah.It's just like the life of crime.You know, you're, you're in a mental prison, like, like Tony too was saying, and you're definitely institutionalized because you don't, you really don't care about coming to this place if, you know, it go bad.
Yeah, like what if you're in a gang?
Same thing.Same thing.Certain way of life, certain way you, you know, certain way, certain rules you go by, but it's still, yeah, you're institutionalized.
I think institutionalization looks like where you think that everything, you live a life like a zombie.You just repeat a routine over and over and there's no other option.
And I think that's why I see things like, I mean, differently from you about the homeless situation, being that I remember being 14 and not thinking there was any other option.
So I was like, I'm just gonna sleep on the street until something happens.You know what I mean?So I think like institutionalization is not just in prison.It's the people out there that have never been to prison.They just live like a zombie.
There's no other option for them and they just live the same way.
It's going to make an inventory of what you have.So you've got highlighters and pens, tape, toothpaste, earbuds, some kind of wrist brace, glasses, bobbins, raincoat, Irish spring soap, paper clips, battery charger, some kind of air spray.
I was out on the yard with the two Tonys.
Tony to Foyer and Tony to Trinidad.
Exactly.And we walked up to this guy who I think you know.His name is Cowboy.Oh, yeah.He's hard to miss.He sits out there every single day.I mean, every day with a blanket covered with stuff.
I saw him out there for years at San Quentin doing the same shit.And that's when I was inside.So you know he's been doing that for a while.
Right.And when I think about people at San Quentin who have really settled into a routine in prison, this is the person that comes to mind.Wow.What's the best item you got here?
Do you have a daily routine that you follow?
What time do you get here?
Have you ever heard the expression institutionalized?
So institutionalized would be like you got so used to being in prison that you function better in prison than you do outside.
What do you think about that expression?
I believe it's true to a lot of people, yeah. A lot of them don't even realize they're institutionalized.
Do you think it applies to you at all?
It might have in some ways, you know.I've been in and out too, so, you know, I'm not no angel.
The only reason I ain't got wings is because when I was a baby, my daddy couldn't afford to put them on me.
That's so sweet.What about you do you think could be institutionalized?What aspects of you?
You get everything given to you here.You don't have to worry, you don't have to work, you know?After a while, you just get used to it and go along with the flow, you know?
Yeah, yeah.Are those bobbins?
Yeah, they're little treads.Yeah.Yeah.You know?
String, little of this, little of that.You know?
If we come back out here on Tuesday, can we talk to you again?See what you got?
Why not?I'd like to see you.
Okay.All right.I'm just gonna make an inventory of what you have.
Cowboys sound like one of them dudes that's chewing and spitting tobacco when you talk to them.
So we spent a lot of time hearing from the dudes about this question of being comfortable inside.But of course, I wondered what the women would have to say.
After the break, we're going to head to the Central California Women's Facility, or CCWF, and see what a couple of residents there have to say.
Expo marker that looks very used, and a black, sharpie, but off-brand marker that is awfully used.
And earplugs.There's like three, they are still sealed earplugs.
Yes, and two old rubber bands.
Some rubber bands.Also, that looks like a...
Hey, listeners, Amy and Bruce here from the Ear Hustle team with some pretty cool Radiotopia news.
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And now, Nate is releasing his first book.It's called The Memory Palace, True Short Stories of the Past.
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I know how to live.I know how to live in here, I guess you could say.I know every day I gotta get up and go to breakfast, go program.The way of life, the structure, yeah, the structure, I guess.It is sad that I got comfortable with it.
But it's just the way it is, you know?
So this was at the Central California Women's Facility, or CCWF.
It's a prison in a town called Chowchilla.
And this woman we're talking to is named Jodi.I mean, I think her voice kind of gives you a sense of what she looks like.She's pretty small, a little diminished.You know, she wears these wiring glasses.Her hair is pulled back really tight.
It's almost like something's been pulled out of her.
Yeah, I mean, she's been down 37 years and you can really see it on her.
I've been locked up all my life.I don't have nothing out there.My family, they're not with me no more.So there's nothing out there for me.I've been locked up since I was 21. I'm 56 now.I'll be 57 in June, so this is all I know.
I came with a 15-to-life sentence for a secondary murder.I had two Cody friends, ex-husband, ex-boyfriend, that committed the murder, that are out of prison now.I'm still here, I don't know, due to my behavior.
Sometimes I feel like it's just easier just doing what I do every day than fighting to go home.I mean, yeah, of course I think about getting out.I would love to get out, but also it's unknown.I've been in here how many centuries?
I mean, I feel like it feels like centuries, decades. You know, I grew up in here, so the world has changed out there.There's a lot of new technology, new cars, new everything, cell phones.I mean, shit, they was still landlines when I was out there.
Gas was 98 cents a gallon.You know, I mean, things have changed.I just think it's overwhelming.I mean, I do.I mean, you know, shit.
Could you describe it to us, what you imagine it is like out there?
I imagine it being faster, fast, you know, a fast world, a world where everybody's walking around with cell phones and ear things.It wasn't like that when I was out there.It is like that.
In my family, I didn't even know drugs were bad till there.You know what I mean?I was like eight or nine.I was in grade school.The officer walked in with this briefcase and I saw some of the things that I saw regularly at my house.
I was like, oh no, oh no.
This is Reese, and my first impression of her, she came in, she had her little beanie pulled down, she had her rim glasses on, and she looked like a undercover thug.
She's definitely somebody you notice, right?
So Reese was telling us a story about when she was a kid and she was at school, they were doing one of those D.A.R.E.presentations.Do you remember those?
Yeah, that was like that Just Say No type program.
Yep, trying to get kids to stay away from drugs. And I'm looking around and all these kids are like, ah, and I'm all panic stricken.I'm the eldest.So I usually had to wait after school till all the little kids came.
And then we would all walk home together.I bailed.I ran straight home and was crying and upset and was like, dad, you're going to go to prison.And he goes, did you tell anybody?No.Okay, then don't worry about it.And I'm like, wait a minute.
And was that confusing?Oh, yeah.Big time.Who did you believe?Your dad?
That it wouldn't be a problem?Or the other people?My dad, for sure.Dad never lies to me.Dad's the comfort.Dad's the security.You know, as long as we didn't tell the police, we were fine.We all at that point, cops are great, right?
After that point, cops are no good and stay away from them and don't trust them.And that's how I led my life.You don't tell the cops nothing. Unfortunately, my dad ended up dying from a drug overdose.
Reese got into drugs at a pretty early age, and that led basically to a cycle of being in and out of jail.
The first time she went in, she was 15.
I was a little intimidated, but when I got in there, I knew people.And so they showed me how to be and welcomed me in.And I know this is what makes me a little crazy when I say it, okay, because it was comfortable then as much as it is now.
It does not bother me to be locked up.And that's part of the problem.For me, the walls provide me with freedom from myself too.
So in prison is the only place that you get to really find yourself.
The real you, who you are without all the influences.
Yeah. I've been high my whole life.My mom does drugs.My dad died from a drug overdose.My brother's a drop-down alcoholic, you know, and these are my direct relatives.
The only thing I've really been good at that's never let me down is my singing, you know, which I can't do when I'm high.So again, coming in here, it helps me be the better person.
Do you feel it has to be a prison or does it has to just be a time out somewhere to go like a program in society?
For me, I have to be locked up. the system's comfortable for me.And I don't tell people this all the time because it's like, just, you don't talk about it, you know?If you're comfortable, you're comfortable.
You don't say it because everybody's supposed to be uncomfortable.Oh, I don't want to be here.But for me, I live a very dangerous life.I've got scars on my face from the dangers I live in.Without being incarcerated, I'm always high.
I'm always all messed up. I don't have family out there to keep me regulated.I don't have anybody I run to.I don't have anybody I call while I'm in here.Everybody's like, oh, you have somebody.No, I don't.This place, I have a roof over my head.
They make sure I eat every day.They make sure that I'm comfortable in a sense, you know, out there, I got to worry about people.Let's just put it out bluntly.I got to worry about people trying to rape me.I got to worry about people trying to kill me.
If I were to get out right now, where would I go?What would I do?Back to the hood.I would be right back in the same situation it put me here.I don't have to worry about those things in here.I know how to fight.I can stand my ground.
I've already proved that point, so now people leave me alone.
You know I'm not one to break promises. I don't want to hurt you, but I need to breathe.At the end of it all, you're still my best friend.But there's something inside that I need to release.
Lisa, this is what I wanted to ask you.You talked about your looks and how you present yourself.So you do have a tough exterior.You've got tattoos on your neck.You're like solid.
You definitely look like you could- I hold myself well, yeah.
Yes.Yeah.All of that stuff. And so I'm not going to say I was intimidated, but I definitely noticed how you looked.But then when you sing, you like have this very nurturing, gentle... It's my soul.
And like you smile in a different way, your eyes get bright, your face totally softens.Yeah.So which side of you is more you?And do you struggle with these two sides?I think my whole life has been...
difficult and extremely difficult at times.So I've adapted to being two people.Mentally, I'm just not right.Something's wrong.And I know that.So I'm here trying to fix that.
There was this story Reese told us about one of the times she was in jail before she came to CCWF.
And when I thought about this story later, what was so striking to me was it seemed like Reese was discovering, maybe for the first time, this sort of softer version of herself, like something was opening up for her.
I was in Monterey County, actually, and the cops came and got me out of my cell because they were having problems with a inmate with mental health issues.He was really being out of control.
And so Tracy, Miss Tracy was the name of that officer, she came and got me and she goes, we need you to come help us calm this inmate down. And I was like, how am I going to help?And she goes, he said he wants you to sing for him.
And we can't get him to stop.
Why was there a man there?
In county, there's both sexes.It's not segregated like it is here usually.I mean, there's the men's side and then the women's side.And how did he know about you? He had heard me singing on the bus.
In transport, when you're going from the facility to court, there's other inmates.And so he must have been on the bus with me because he said, told them that he wanted the girl that can sing.
So I walked up and I was like, can you tell me what your problem is?And he goes, I don't want to talk to these guys.I just want to hear you.And I was like, hear me.I'm right here, bro. They had him in a safety cell and he was in the suit.
You know, I don't know if you guys know, but they get you butt naked, put this Kevlar type of suit on you.And he was very distressed.And I said, well, what do you want me to sing for you?And he goes, I don't care.And we sang the ABCs together.
Because in my head, I'm thinking, OK, well, he's distressed and he just wants to hear something comforting.So I was thinking, what's more comforting to somebody who's not all there than something we all know?
So I was like, A, B, C, D, E, F, G. And he just got real quiet.And he sat down and he listened to me and I sang the whole alphabet.And I said, next time, won't you sing with me?And he's like, really?
And I was like, yeah, come on, let's sing together.And by the time I was done with the second version of it and he was singing with me, he was very much different.
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y and Z Now I know my ABC's Next time won't you sing with me
Earlyn, don't you think it's so touching that she found a way to make somebody else feel comfortable inside?
Definitely, you know, and I give props to the officer.Yeah.That came and got her because, you know, they could have easily done that a whole different way, tied them up, you know, the whole nine, threw them in there.
But she actually, you know, went above and beyond just to go get somebody to come and, you know, calm them down.
It's true.I didn't even think about that.So it's this really kind of lovely collaboration between the officer and Reese and her coming up with this.That's the song that would pull something out of him and invite him to sing along with her.
Indeed.That was, as you would say, sweet.
It was sweet.It was very tender.And I really wanted you to sing the ABCs to kind of take us out on this episode, but I knew that wasn't going to be possible.
So we got someone else to do it.
Yes, you did.And I figured I'd at least support a little bit with a little beatboxing.
She's still trying to bait you.
Sadiq is mentally challenged, so.
That was so hard.It was so hard to get him to do it, but that was beautiful.
Hello, hi, my name is LaToya Jenkins.I am incarcerated here at CCWF.I've been incarcerated for 15 years.I am a dog trainer.I've been a dog trainer for five years.I train service dogs.
Ear Hustle is produced by Nigel Poore, Erlein Woods, Amy Standen, Bruce Wallace, Rahsaan New York-Thomas, and Kat Shucknick. Shubnam Sigmund is the managing producer.
The producing team inside San Quentin includes Darrell Sadiq Davis, Tony DeTrinidad, and Tom Nguyen.The inside managing producer is Tony Tafoya, Thanks to Acting Warden Andes at St.
Quentin, Acting Warden Parker and Lieutenant Newborg at the California Institution for Women, and Lieutenant Williams at the Central California Women's Facility for their support of the show.
Latoya, don't forget about Warden Delacruz.So true.
Also, thanks to this woman here.
I am Lieutenant Giammare Berry, the Public Information Officer at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, and I approve this episode.
This episode was made possible by the Just Trust, building a smaller, more humane engine of justice and safety across the country.For more information about this episode, check out the show notes on Ear Hustle's website, EarHustleSQ.com.
You can also find out more about the show on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at EarHustleSQ.
Nige, happy new season of Ear Hustle to you.
Well, right back at you, my friend.
So we've got a bunch of new episodes in the works right now.And what's the one that you're most excited about?
Of course. Oh my God, that is not the one I thought you were going to pick.
Oh yeah, I got to say elections because it's been really exciting.I mean, our inside producers, they're going to do like a straw poll on the yard, and we're going to find out if the election was held in San Quentin, who would win.
That's going to be interesting.It's going to be interesting.I'm a little bit afraid of what the answer is going to be, but we're going to all find out together, which is going to be very exciting.
It's going to be shocking.
The election season is shocking.
So question, who are they going to vote for?The prosecutor or the felon?
I know, I'm speechless.I don't even know how to respond.
Okay, so I'm gonna ask you the same question.Which one are you excited about?
Yeah, well, all eight, but the last memory episode.These are episodes where we talk to people in prison about the last memory, the last association they have with a place before they were incarcerated.
And this time, we're doing it at a woman's prison.
I love these episodes because we never know what's going to happen.And, Erlon, I'm almost getting teary.Something surprising and connective happens every time we do one of these.It's so life-affirming.
Okay, now, shall we get to these credits?
Let's do it.Erlon Woods sound designs and engineers the show with help from Fernando Arruda, Harry Culhane, and Darrell Sadiq-Davis.
Music for this episode comes from Darrell Sadiq Davis, Antoine Williams, and me, Erlon Woods.
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Ear Hustle Plus subscribers get access to ad-free episodes plus bonus episodes in a special subscriber-only feed.
And Erlon, our Ear Hustle Plus episodes are really fun.Subscribers can find out what's happening with people they've heard on previous episodes, and they can also send in their questions for you and me to answer.And I love doing that.
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