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When I stumbled upon an old box full of VHS tapes and police reports, I didn't expect to uncover connections to several unsolved murders near my hometown.
I've been investigating how these murders could be connected to a group called the Lords of Death.Check out this clip from the show.
So Tim had a tattoo on his arm that was just letters.It said LOD.And I asked Mick what LOD stood for.And I was told it stood for Lords of Death.So I asked, you know, for the meaning behind it.And only a couple people had the tattoo, apparently.
And in order to get the tattoo, you had to take someone's soul, as in murder someone, is what I was told. But it never really clicked with me that it was like, they were really the Lords of Death.
I could just see them being like, yeah, cool, we're the Lords of Death, and it really meaning nothing is how I looked at it.But I was wrong.It meant a lot.
I'm Thrasher Banks, host of the new Tenderfoot TV podcast, Lords of Death.For an ad-free binge, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus.com.
Culpable Case Review episodes are released on Friday.To binge the entire installment ad-free, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts.Now, let's start the show.
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed and participating in the show and do not represent those of Tenderfoot TV.
All individuals described or mentioned in this podcast should be considered innocent until found guilty in a court of law.
This podcast contains subject matter such as violence and other graphic descriptions which may not be suitable for all audiences.Listener discretion is advised.
She was the mother figure for me and my cousins.So a lot of the times we were with Nanny, and that's what we called her.She was Nanny Goldie, and she was the glue that kind of held us all together.
This is Casey Morris, the granddaughter of Goldie Marie Thornsberry, the victim in this story.
When they speak about generational trauma, my family is a great case for that.Everybody kind of fell apart when she disappeared because nobody wanted to talk about it.
When 65-year-old Goldie Thornsberry went missing from her Fayetteville, Arkansas home in January of 1996, her family was at a total loss.
As her granddaughter said, Nanny Goldie was the glue that held her family together, so her disappearance didn't just leave a void, it also caused a rift amongst her loved ones, one that is yet to be repaired.
Because after her body was eventually discovered, investigators would start to piece together a homicide case.And shockingly, the evidence would point towards one of Goldie's very own.
— It goes so much deeper than just someone murdering your grandmother, when it's family who does it.And there's been so many lies.I just want the truth.That's all I've ever wanted.
This is a story unlike any other I've covered, so I'll be telling it in two parts.This is a culpable case review of Goldie Thornsberry, part one.
I'm Casey Morris.My grandmother was Goldie Thornsberry.She was the mother figure for me and my cousins, the older ones.Growing up, there wasn't a lot of stability with our own mothers.She was who we went to when we needed comfort.
She was who we went to when we needed reassurance.And she was just always there to take care of us.
From everything I've gathered, Goldie Thornsberry was a saint.And in her family, she was a matriarch of sorts, a rather strong and tall lady raised on a farm.She was more than equipped to keep her reign on things.
Casey tells me life wasn't always easy growing up.Goldie had four kids of her own, and I'm told that some of them struggled through rough patches in life, and therefore, weren't always dependable parents for their own kids.
And that's where Goldie comes in.She was always there for her grandkids, and they spent a lot of their time with her, not just because they needed to at times, but also because they wanted to.
Casey may have been young when she lost her nanny, but she still remembers her vividly.
I remember her with white hair and she always had it curled.She made sure that it looked nice.She had these glasses that were the big square frame glasses.They're kind of coming back into style now.I remember her wearing tank tops a lot.
She was a sweet old lady, but she looked tough.It wasn't somebody that you could easily take advantage of, you know? Her family was a farming family.So they grew up, you know, you had to do the chores, you had to take care of the animals.
And in that way, physically, you get tough.You don't get pushed around a lot when you come from a farming family because you know how to handle yourself.And not to say that she was tough like in a strong way, but just no nonsense, I guess.
And that's kind of what I got from my great-grandmother May, her mother, like it was just no nonsense.
You took care of business, you did what you needed to do, and then at the end of the day, that was your time, and she was a lady who handled what she had to do.
Goldie had a knack for making life seem effortless.She was strong, yet affectionate, and loaded with compassion, traits that helped her make lasting memories with her grandkids.
Casey still remembers some of the things that made life with Goldie so special.
One of our favorite things that she always kept for us was honey on the honeycomb.One of the things she took with her from the farm was beekeeping and she would make sure she always had honey on the honeycomb for us.
And then one of the things that she always made us for breakfast was cream of wheat. I did not realize that crema wheat wasn't supposed to have lumps in it, but that was the way she made it.
And I found out later in life that it wasn't supposed to have lumps, but you know, those lumps were some of the best parts. I think the strongest memory I have of her that would describe her person would be my cousin Brittany is mixed.
And so when we were staying with her for a weekend, and it was me, Brittany, my older sister, and my two cousins, and there were these boys who were picking on Brittany and making fun of her because she was mixed.
They had her in tears while we were at the playground making fun of her.So we went back to the apartment and we told Nanny what was happening and she told us to go handle it, to take care of it.
So we went back out to the playground and a fight ensued between all of us kids to the point where the police were called.And the police came and they asked Nanny what was going on and she said that family was taking care of family.
She was a very strong personality, and she had her morals.In her mind, they weren't questionable.What was right was right, and what was wrong was wrong.She made sure that we knew we had to be there for each other.
And when she disappeared, that went with her, unfortunately.
Understanding who Goldie was and how much she meant to her family is so important because it really underlines how tragic her loss was.It's been 28 years since Goldie was first reported missing, and a lot has happened in that time.
Believe me when I tell you, it's a roller coaster.More on that ahead. But when Goldie went missing on January 15, 1996, Casey was just a kid.
And while the idea that her grandmother had vanished was incomprehensible to a 10-year-old, she still has vivid memories of it.
I remember getting ready for school and my dad coming in the room and telling my sister and I that we needed to come watch the news.
And I remember sitting on the couch and seeing a picture of Nanny being shown on the news and them saying that she was considered a missing person and that they were looking on where she might be. I was very confused on how she could be missing.
I didn't understand how nobody knew where she was.And so as a kid, I justified it as, well, maybe she took a vacation.Maybe she just got too tired and she wanted to take a break. She just went away for a little bit, but she'll come back.
And then you start hearing things from adults talking about, well, the freezer's missing and there's blood on the sheets.And maybe she's not just missing.Maybe somebody did something.
Initially, there wasn't much information to work with.The way Casey remembers it, it was like Goldie was there one minute, then gone the next, with no real explanation of where she was.
And that was quite peculiar because she wasn't living alone at the time.
She reportedly went missing from her apartment in Fayetteville, Arkansas, which she shared with her granddaughter, Brittany, whom she was the guardian of, Brittany's mom, or Goldie's daughter, Rita Flowers, and Rita's husband, Raymond Douglas.
So it appeared likely that there were three other people inside the apartment when Goldie vanished that night in January.Yet, none of them seemed to know anything about where she might have gone.
And worse, Rita and Raymond had never reported her missing in the first place.It would take the rest of the family several weeks to piece that together, but once they did, they filed a missing persons report.
Casey tells me, there wasn't a lot of action from authorities initially, but that would change come mid-March, when some strange activity on Goldie's bank account came to light, finally prompting an investigation.
I feel like there were a lot of things that were mishandled.One of my babysitter's friends was a caseworker or social worker for the housing complex that my nanny lived at.And I can remember hearing her have conversations about
trying to get the police involved, trying to figure out where she was.I don't feel like they took it seriously when people were saying that they couldn't find her.
I think it took them a very long time to start investigating because it was the bank, ultimately, that did a welfare check on her because her account had became so overdrawn with all the hot checks.
Goldie's bank raised the first red flag in this case when they reported checks being written to various liquor stores and gas stations, eventually turning into bad checks when Goldie's account was overdrawn.
So from the time Goldie went missing to the time her bank reported this, there's really no telling what all was lost as far as an investigation goes.
The Northwest Arkansas Democrat Gazette reported that in March of 1996, about two months after Goldie went missing,
Officers from the Fayetteville Police Department searched the home where Rita and Raymond were still living along with Rita's daughter, Brittany.They found all of her belongings and no evidence of blood or any kind of violence.
Though they did determine that her car, a Pontiac Le Mans, was missing.A few weeks later, it would be discovered in the parking lot of a local Walmart with faded flyers on the windshield indicating it had been there for some time.
So at this point, there didn't appear to be much for authorities to go on besides the forged checks that the bank reported.But this punishable offense did point to a possible motive in the missing persons case.
And with that, authorities now had two suspects.
So the bank reported it to the police department, and the police department went and did a welfare check and were given the runaround by Rita and Raymond as to where she was.
And then they kind of took off to Little Rock after she was reported missing.I think it took a while after that for them to be arrested.And when they got arrested for the hot checks, that's when we started hearing things like,
that Raymond may have done something to Nanny, and that people helped him, and that Rita knew what was going on, but she couldn't tell.
Another thing Casey remembers hearing about that has always stuck with her was an additional missing item that family members later discovered and reported to police.And it was a rather concerning item at that.
Goldie's deep freezer had vanished and was nowhere to be found.
While this information was certainly alarming and helped to paint more of a picture of what might have happened to Goldie, until authorities could locate that freezer, it wasn't going to do them much good.
Still, the only evidence of any wrongdoing on behalf of Rita and Raymond were those stolen checks, which was technically an unrelated crime.
But months later, they would be charged with second-degree forgery, for which they served 15 days in jail, and then were released.Around this time, they'd move to Little Rock, where I'm told Raymond's family lived.
And from here, the trail would go cold for some time.
I think the hardest part as a kid was I remember being in junior high.It's like seventh or eighth grade.And they found a freezer.I don't remember where it was.And there was remains in it.
And they had called our family to let us know, hey, this might be her.This might be it.And I remember a couple of times getting those phone calls like, hey, we found this.It might be her.I think those were the hardest times.
A few years would pass with no sign of Goldie and no real leads to go on, apart from some skepticism around her daughter Rita and her husband Raymond, the last known people to see Goldie alive.The couple divorced near the end of 1999.
Then, in July of 2000, authorities got their first potential break in the case, when a team of land surveyors found human remains inside of a dry well some 200 miles away in Little Rock. The partial remains belonged to an elderly woman.
Her two hands and one of her legs had been dismembered and were never recovered.She was also missing her dentures, leaving out the possibility of identification through dental records.
So at the time, authorities had no way of knowing who the remains belonged to.It would take 10 long years, some DNA testing, and a clay model recreation of the skull before they'd finally get a positive ID, matching the remains to Goldie Thornsberry.
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While it may have taken longer than it should have, Goldie's body had finally been identified. With this revelation, authorities now had what they needed to make an arrest.
And on June 22, 2010, about 14 years after the disappearance, authorities did just that, arresting Raymond Douglas and Rita Flowers on first-degree murder charges, to which they pleaded not guilty.Months later, the trial would commence.
The prosecution lined up as much evidence as they could in their case against Raymond and Rita. Eventually Rita was offered a plea deal in exchange for testifying against Raymond in the trial.By the time it got underway, Casey was now a young woman.
She, like the rest of her family, was anticipating some semblance of justice for the horrific murder of her beloved Goldie.
When we had the trial, I didn't get to set in the trial because I was going to give a victim impact statement if he was found guilty.So I didn't get to hear everything that was said until later on.
And so in a lot of ways, I felt like I missed things until I read the transcripts of the trial and got all the information I could.So what I read was
Rita's testimony of Raymond had hit Nanny over the head with an alarm clock and then used the cord to strangle her.
And then after that, somehow she was put into the freezer and they had borrowed a neighbor's car to take her and the freezer to Little Rock. I remember her saying that the hands were thrown in the river so that they couldn't be found.
With a testimony this strong, it seemed even more likely that justice was imminent.But as the trial proceeded, the defense remained poised.And ultimately, the prosecution failed to get a conviction.
It seemed like any time the defense would go to speak, to try to say something, there were a lot of objections from Raymond's lawyers.And the judge would agree, and so they would have to change their tactics.
I remember meeting with the district attorney, John Threatt, who tried the case before it even started, and him just, you know, saying, we have really circumstantial evidence and Rita's testimony.
It's like they had accepted being defeated before they went into the courtroom, like they knew they weren't going to win. I don't know if they didn't try, or if they just didn't have a way around it.They couldn't bring up Raymond's criminal history.
So when Rita was testifying the first time, she had mentioned him going back to jail, him saying he did not want to go back to jail.And because she said that, it got thrown out the first time, and we had to have a retrial.
Two months after the mistrial, in October of 2011, Raymond Douglas would stand trial for first-degree murder for a second time.
They had to find ways of introducing evidence and connecting him without bringing up his previous history.And his lawyers, I mean, they were on it.They objected to everything.
They made sure that everything was so confusing that the jury couldn't follow.I just remember feeling like they had already accepted defeat before they went in and tried the case.
Like, well, this is the best we got, and this is what we're going to do.It was like nobody cared.It wasn't worth the fight, and it should have been worth the fight.
Brita never had to go to court because she had made a deal to testify against Raymond, and Raymond was found not guilty.It was an acquittal.I remember being in the courtroom when they announced the verdict, and his sister fainted.
I remember that making me angry.Your brother's a murderer, and he just got away with it, and you're relieved, and you're praising the Lord.
And then we came out of the courtroom, and I remember my aunt screaming, you killed my mother, as he walked out.The emotion in her voice and how broken she was when she screamed that at him.It was very surreal.
After a brief two-day trial, Raymond Douglas was found not guilty of first-degree murder and was released.
And according to the Northwest Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, Rita Flowers pled guilty to hindering prosecution, for which she served 506 days in the Washington County Detention Center.
And with that, the hope of justice that the family was clinging to quickly evaporated. Since the trial, the family has sought to keep in contact with authorities from the Fayetteville Police Department to understand where things go from here.
Casey doesn't mince words when speaking about the investigation and how authorities have handled things since day one.And given where things stand all these years later, it's understandable.
Like I said, I think the police waited too long to investigate.And by the time they declared it a homicide or a missing persons, there was nothing left to investigate.They had already did what they did with her body.
And it sucks because it was family. People were looking for Nannie, and the only person they could go to to look for Nannie was Rita Kay because she was living with her.So people would go to the apartment and be like, where is she?Where's Goldie?
And she would lie and be like, oh, well, she's with my other sister, or she's with her mom and her sisters out in Patrick, Arkansas, or she's visiting family here at a state.
They ran them around in circles and nobody stopped long enough to be like, hey, this isn't adding up.We're getting lied to.We're getting played. It took them too long.All the evidence points to them.
It makes no sense to me how you can connect these dots and not come up with, he did it.Yeah, he had help.He wasn't the only one.There's no way he could have done it all by himself.
You can't put a body in a freezer and dismember it and move it and hide it in a well by yourself.Somebody helped. and nobody came forward.
As for motive, both the Fayetteville police and the prosecution believed it was straightforward and it had to do with money.But this is just another piece of the puzzle that Casey questions.
To this day, she wonders if the motive actually runs deeper than that.
Growing up, the motive that I heard was that Raymond was into drugs and was selling them or doing them.And Nanny found out.And they were living with Nanny at the time, and she didn't want any of that in her house.
And she threatened to take my cousin Brittany. away from her mom, Rita, again, because she didn't want any of that to be around her.And so that was the motive, I was told, as a kid, was Nanny was going to turn him in for drugs.
And so he killed her so she wouldn't turn him in.What Rita testified to was that Raymond said he did it so that they would stay together, because Rita, at the time, was pregnant with his son when all this happened.
And he did it so that they could stay together because he knew Nanny didn't want her to be with him.So I don't know if we'll ever really know the true motive.
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It's easy to look back and identify the missteps, both in the investigation and at the trial.To focus on the things that could and should have been done differently.
But the problem in Casey's mind isn't just how things unfolded over the past 28 years.It's how things are still being handled today. In recent months, Casey has been in contact with Lt.
Franklin with the Fayetteville Police Department regarding Goldie's case.And while initially she says he was cordial and helpful, she can't help but feel that something changed.And strangely, it seemed to coincide with her doing this interview.
We requested an interview with Lt.Franklin ourselves, but he declined.
I asked Lieutenant Franklin to speak to you guys.And at the time, all family members were on board.
And a couple of days ago, I was told that Lieutenant Franklin contacted the producer and said he couldn't give an interview because the family asked him not to, which I think is a complete lie. because I've reached out and asked him.
My aunt, who was also part of the investigation, and my nanny's sisters, who were part of the investigation, have all agreed and wanted him to talk.The only person I know of that reached out to him and could have told him no was my mother.And it
My mother was involved in writing the hot checks on my grandmother, on Annie's account, as well as Rita and Raymond.I know she was looked at.I don't know how seriously she was looked at as a suspect.
For them to all of a sudden say no, we can't do this because the family said no, and the family isn't saying no.The family's saying share.The family's saying please tell so we can get some answers.
So for them to change their minds and decide no, they can't tell, it really makes me feel like people are still trying to cover things up. that people are still trying to look out for themselves.
Because when I spoke to Lieutenant Franklin, his response to me about speaking to you guys was he needed to do his own research and see what the angle was going to be.
He was more concerned with what the podcast angle was going to be than to finding justice for Nanny.And at this point, after so many years, I'm tired of people covering for themselves.It's not about you anymore.
It should never have been about you in the first place.It's about Nanny and what happened to her and who did it and those people who helped him and who covered it up. They know they did wrong and they were never held accountable.
They get to live their lives.There's too many people that knew too many things for us to only get an acquittal on circumstantial evidence when the body was found less than a block from his family's residences.
It's been 12 years since the trial, and in every sense, Goldie's death is still an open case.If Raymond and Rita were responsible, the prosecution's case failed to hold them accountable.
If they're innocent in this, or others were involved, then authorities have yet to uncover the necessary evidence to charge the individuals responsible.
When all is said and done, what's left in the wake of all this is a fractured family who are still left grieving the loss of the woman who was selfless enough and strong enough to hold them all together.
When they speak about generational trauma, my family is a great case for that.This was kind of like the linchpin that exploded our family.And everybody kind of fell apart when she disappeared.
Within the past two years, I've lost a cousin and a sister to drugs and violence because we couldn't heal when this happened to our family because nobody wanted to talk about it.
We were taught to let it go and to not ask questions because there was nothing we could do.And so because of that, we've all struggled in our lives.
I was surprised to hear that for Casey, one of the most heart-wrenching parts in all this is not just having a family divided.After all, it seems pretty reasonable that some would take sides.
And I can't even fathom what it must be like trying to process all this.But that's the problem.
In order to grieve, it needs to be talked about, which is why Casey feels the hardest part about all of this has been the expectation within the family to not talk about it.In essence, just forget about the whole thing.
I remember being told by my mother and others when Nanny's remains were identified and that they had contacted Rita to let her know and Rita had contacted the family.We were told not to ask her about it and everybody wanted
to talk to my cousin Brittany, who was living with Nanny when it happened, to see, you know, what she knew, what she could remember if she was okay.But we were all told not to ask those questions.
It was always just an elephant in the room, and it made everybody uncomfortable to talk about it.So instead, people chose to drink or take pills or seek thrills in crimes.And it's just, I hate seeing what this has done to my family.
And that's one of the main reasons that I wanted to do this is because I want us to heal.And we can't heal until there's justice for my nanny.
For years, Casey has been discouraged from speaking with her family about this, including her cousin Brittany, who was living with Goldie at the time of her disappearance and living with Rita and Raymond as the investigation unfolded.
She's always wanted to know what her cousin remembers, being on the inside of it all.And she believes that Brittany and everyone else in the family deserves an opportunity to talk about Goldie's death and maybe take some weight off their chests.
After agreeing to do this interview, Casey reached out to various family members asking if anyone else would want to take part in the podcast.And unfortunately, she wasn't met with a warm response.
But she did find one willing party who was ready to talk.It was about the last person she expected, her cousin, Brittany.And if there's anyone who could help add to this story, it's gotta be her.
And when I woke up the next morning, She left.She just left in the middle of the night.A little bit after that, we took a trip to Little Rock.
Come to find out later that, more likely than not, we transported my grandmother's body to Little Rock to be dismembered and buried in a well.
Culpable is a production of Tenderfoot TV in partnership with Odyssey, written and hosted by Dennis Cooper.Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey.Our senior producer is John Street.Our producer is Jamie Albright.
Supervising producers are John Street and Tracy Kaplan, with additional production by Eric Quintana, Andy Rustin, and Jordan Foxworthy. Editing by Jaja Muhammad and Sydney Evans.Mixing, mastering, and sound design by Dayton Cole.
Our theme song is by Dirt Poor Robins, with additional scoring by Makeup and Vanity Set and Dayton Cole.Our cover art is by Drew Bardana.Sources for this episode include the Northwest Arkansas Democrat Gazette and KATV.
Special thanks to the teams at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. You can follow us on social media at Culpable Podcast.If you enjoyed this episode, please take time to follow, rate, and review.Your feedback is greatly appreciated.
For ad-free listening and exclusive content, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus.com.Thanks for listening.
Thanks for listening to this episode of Culpable Case Review.Tune back in for additional episodes releasing each Friday.For ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts.
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