Was it good?Was it bad?What was it like working with him?Working with her?You'll hear all the tales you wish you knew Every aspect of the theater, too Feel your love of Broadway anew On Backstage Babble!
Hi, this is Charles Kirsch and welcome to Backstage Babble.Backstage Babble is a podcast interviewing professionals in the theatre industry. about themselves, their careers, and the people they've worked with along the way.
Before I introduce our guest for this week, I want to take a moment to remember the truly wonderful actor Ken Page, who we sadly lost this week at the age of 70.
I was honored to speak to Ken as part of Backstage Babble's inaugural Pride Month celebration back in 2021, and his kindness and the stories he shared were just extraordinary.
He will be greatly missed and always remembered for being a super talent, a trailblazer, and a really great person.
In the face of loss, which the theatre community has had a lot of this week, I think the most important thing can be to find joy, and no one personifies joy better than this week's guest, Tony-winning actress Beth Leavel.
Beth is fresh off her role as the Baroness in Lempicka, and her past Broadway credits include The Drowsy Chaperone, The Prom, Bandstand, Elf, Baby It's You, Young Frankenstein, Mamma Mia, 42nd Street, Showboat, The Civil War, and Crazy for You.
Around the country, she has appeared in Minsky's, The Devil Wears Prada, Call Me Madam, No No Nanette, Mame, Nonsense, and more.You also won't want to miss her upcoming celebration of Stephen Sondheim,
which will play 54 Below on October 25th and 26th.And you can find the ticket link for that in the episode description.And now without further ado, here's Beth Leavel.
Well, so I'd love to start us off by asking you how you first became involved with La Pika.
Oh, that's a great story.They called me.I literally was up at some outlet mall And I am so glamorous from from my agent.And he said, call me back.I have some very exciting news.So who knows what that could mean?And so I called him.
He said, yes, the people from Lempicka would like to offer you the role of I'm like, oh, sorry.What was the name of that show again?And he said, Lempicka went. What is that about?And of course I'm like, to get a job offer is like a dream.
So I was like, yes, wait, what is it about?And then he gave me some information on it.And then I heard it was going to the Longacre where prom was.So I felt it was like a sign from the universe.
And then of course I did some homework and figured out who Lempicka was.And as, I find many audience members and many people that didn't see the show, they go, Lempicka.And then they look at her artwork and go, oh, oh, of course I know her work.
I just never knew her name.It's like, exactly.That's what we were supposed to do. And then I said, yes, I was like the newcomer on the block, me and a couple of other people in the ensemble who had been associated with it.
I know the writers, Matt and Carson and Rachel, I think had been with it from 10 to 14 years, because giving birth to a show is not the easiest thing to do. and I know Eden and Amber and Natalie Joy and they've all been with it.
It's been like in their soul, in their vocabulary for years and years.So I'm glad it made it to Broadway and wish it had run a little longer and had more people see it.But the album Cast album comes out June 12th.
So I hope I'm very excited to hear it because I think it's an amazing score.And I love the song.I sing so much and I just I just want to hear it as a fan.Not me, the show.Can you imagine?Let me listen to me.But it's like, oh, God, did you?
Well, do we need to redo that?
And what was it like to work with Rachel Chavkin, who was such a great director?
She's so smart and she has such a vision that I just never, I just felt like a student watching her make the show a reality and her point of view.And then to change the point of view and then to try something else and go, wow, that's brilliant.
She's just kind. So smart, loves the work, loves the art form, loves everyone involved.And I think that always feels so good in a room.And then I just trusted her and I'm not disappointed.
She just, I told her, I said, when we were leaving, I said, you're stuck with me now.And she said, I hope so.And I said, well, I hope so.So I'm in her fan club.She's just terrific.
And I'd now love to sort of go back with you and ask you how you first became interested in performing.
It's such a weird story.It's just so unnormal.You know, if you ask say the ensemble, for example, in Lempicka, how did you, how did you pursue your craft to become a Broadway performer?
And it's like, well, I've been dancing since I blah, blah, I've been training.I always knew since I was four years old.I started so, so late.I was born in North Carolina in Raleigh, North Carolina.And
In the time that I was going to school, there was just no opportunities to see touring shows or not a lot of musicals.I wasn't even sure what it was.
I mean, I kind of knew, but there was just no place to even witness something and then have it fuel and spark your curiosity or passion.Until my senior year in high school.High school.I mean, I'm so old by then.
I had taken tap dance class from second to fifth grade with Betty Kovacs School of Dance.So I, you know, I really had a good time at the recitals and stuff, but I had no idea, you know, singing and stuff was foreign to me.
And my, my dear friend Jan Herndon asked me to audition for the spring musical at Broughton High School in Raleigh, North Carolina, which was Brigadoon.And I'm like, I have no, I was like, what are you talking about?
And she said, it's, it's just come do it.It's a great way to meet boys. So I did it and I got the third lead, maybe the Bonnie Jean, who was kind of more of a dancer, which was so silly.
And I just remember it's vivid to me walking into, you know, when you're in high school, at least my high school at the time, we rehearsed in the band room, or part of the time in the gym until we were able to get in the auditorium.
And I just remember walking into the room and after the first day of rehearsal going, wow, who are these people and how can I spend the rest of my life with them?Because they were like, they were like me.
I'm sure that their parents told them to please be quiet as much as, my parents told me to shh, stop, stop, stop it, you know, stop, you're being way too loud.But going back in North Carolina, the thought of,
even the possibility of doing it for a living seemed absurd.And it seemed absurd to my parents who just wanted me to be normal.So I went to a small college in Raleigh because I had no idea what I wanted to do.
Even after that, I just didn't know what to do with that little kernel of joy that I had discovered playing Bonnie Jean. in Brigadoon and the people around me.So I went to a school that didn't have a drama major, but they had a drama minor.
And I have a degree in social work counseling, which has come in really handy as an actor, believe it or not, because it's all about listening and responding one way or another.But I had a teacher.
at this school, Meredith College, who became my mentor.And I would not be where I am today.I would not have this passion today if it wasn't for her, Linda Bamford.And I did every show that I could get my hands on.
I choreographed a couple of shows, which was really rather silly, but I did it anyway.And kind of was learning how to sing and find my voice and find out who am I as a storyteller?
And then at the end of my fourth year, Linda, my teacher suggested that I think about moving to New York.And I had been to New York before with my parents for a Lions convention.And I'm like, I am never going back to that city.It was terrifying.
It was terrifying.And I didn't, this is an interesting story. When I was up there, I must have been, I don't know, 14, 15.
I don't remember a lot about the elevators and the noise of the city, but I do remember my mom asking me, I had two choices on a Saturday.
Would I rather go with my father and his friend on the subway, which I thought was kind of intriguing, to see a Yankees game, or would I rather go with my mother and her friend to see Angela Lansbury in May? I chose the Yankees game.
And I'm thinking, what would 14-year-old Beth have done if I went to see, and not ride a subway, I don't even remember the game, I remember the subway, not have seen Angela Lansbury and all these fabulous Broadway performers in that show, Maine.
I would have walked out of there a different person, I think. But I didn't. went to a Yankees game and there you go.So after that, when she said, move to New York, I was like, no, I'm really not, I'm way too immature.I'm still too immature.
But back then I knew I was really too immature.So I went and auditioned for one school to have, to get an MFA.And I was accepted into the University of North Carolina at Greensboro.
And for the next two years, I got my master's degree in acting and directing.And after that, I had no choice. I was like, just leave, just go, just go.It's terrifying and as glorious as it was.
And were your parents or people around you supportive of you pursuing it professionally?And did they recognize your talent?
No, I just thought that I think they thought it was a phase I would just get over.We just let her go.She'll be back.
They, I had saved up money because I was working jobs and I remember wrapping Christmas presents at the drugstore trying to make money, but they helped me with rent, which was not very much back then.
And I honestly thought they would just wait till I got over it or came to my senses and realized how terrifying New York is.And then I started to work. me.
I was very lucky and got an agent and the first national tour of 42nd Street pretty quickly in the scheme of things.So I'm really thankful for that Betty Kovacs school of dance and tap.
Because I wasn't a very good tapper when I got here, but I knew the vocabulary. And then that role opened up on Broadway and I stayed and played anytime Annie for about four years.And one year I was making more than my father was.
And by then it was, you know, no turning back.My parents were proud of me and saw that I was here for good.And alive and well in Manhattan thriving.
And what was it like to play the same role in a show for four years and sort of keep it fresh on Broadway?
You know, that's easy for me to do.Even if I feel like shit coming into a matinee, pardon my French, I know now that I still have to give 110%.And if I don't give 110%, I just can't do it.Some days it's easier than others.
I was with my first husband at the time and I was the breadwinner.So I wasn't going to leave a show with a community of people that I was so close to.I could walk to work.42nd Street was a huge hit.
I started at the Majestic Theater, and then a little show called Phantom of the Opera came in, and our producer was David Merrick, who was quite the showman.When we moved from the Majestic to the St.
James, David Merrick was able to close the block down on 44th Street, I believe it's 44th Street, and he put the We're in the Money dimes across the street, like little rocks, and we all did our little, ♪ We're in the money ♪
across the street to the St.James, where now 42nd Street was going since Phantom of the Opera had kicked us out.
And interestingly enough, which for all his stories that we hear about Mr. Merrick, he was so smart in that Phantom of the Opera started at eight.And there was a big thing, if you can't get your tickets, our show started at 8.15.
Oh, no, everyone that went to the sold out Phantom of the Opera could think and come over to see 42nd Street.So I stayed with it for four years until I was it was time to go.And I was I was never going to go just to leave.
And I was cast as Rizzo in a national tour of Greece that was eventually
through some strange path, supposed to come back into the city with the person at the time, Jack Wagner, who's still a star, but he was a big star back then, because he was the lead in General Hospital.We closed in Washington, DC.
So it was like, womp, womp.But then the next thing came along, which was Crazy for You.And that was my first original show, which is a whole new experience if you've never done that. Yes.
And I know also at some point early on, you understudied Lucy Arnaz on the tour of I Do, I Do.And what was that like to work with her?
She was a doll.That was right before I was cast in 42nd Street, the tour.I was working at the Muni, which was kind of a big deal.It still is a big deal.But I was cast in their season to do three shows and to stand by and blah, blah, blah.
At the end of the show, Lucy and her husband, Larry Luckenbill, were doing a tour of I Do, I Do, and they had to have two covers.And I had done it at the Barn Dinner Theater in Raleigh, North Carolina.
And so for some reason, it was such a gift, they cast me to be her understudy.I never went on.Can you imagine, be like, the role is usually played by Lucy Arnest, by this 20 year old nobody.
But it was fun just to be a part of it and watch and we would rehearse and they were just, she and her husband and family were so lovely.And then it was over.And then 42nd Street happened.
Yes, yes. And what was it like to sort of learn from some of those great actors you were working with early on on, do I do or on 42nd Street or?
I think 42nd Street, it was like a masterclass in good and bad.Typically the role of Dorothy Brock and Maggie Jones.The people playing Maggie Jones, it was kind of like a revolving door, but on the tour, it was B.B.Osterwall.
who understudied Carol Channing in Hello Dolly.
And just to sit around that woman and her campfire and listen to stories, we would go out, a group of us, particularly us youngins, would go out, I feel like now I'm that person, we would go out to a Thai restaurant on 8th Avenue every Thursday night after we got our paycheck, order a beer and listen to the stories of Phoebe, and later it was Marie Lillo,
And it was just fascinating, because I was so naive in the history of things, and just to hear their experience.And then Dorothy Brock was Dolores Gray, Liz Allen, who I stole.When I did Dorothy Brock later, I stole so much from her.
I loved it so much.I just stole it.Just stole it.I hope that's the greatest form of imitation, the greatest form of flattery, because that's what it was. Millicent Martin.So I was just sitting back eating popcorn going, teach me.
And then, you know, it was like, Beth, don't don't look as you're leaving because you're going to upstage that person.It's like, oh, you're absolutely right.That's just nibbles of lessons that I'm still learning as a perpetual student.
And what was it like then for you to return to the show years later in the Broadway revival, understudying those two roles and then taking over
freaky in a good way.I mean, there's shows that I know and there's shows that I know.And I have done 40 Seconds to Read so many times.I played Dorothy Brock at the Muny before I did this.
And to go back into, to stand by, it was a time in our lives where just work was not happening.And I went into audition for everyone I knew And they were saying, the creatives and the director, were saying, you're just right in the middle.
You're too young for Dorothy Brock.I don't think you're, you know, you just don't fit in.Would you consider standing?But it's like, yes, yes, I would.Yes, I would.
And I went on pretty quickly for about a week for Christine, because she was having some things she needed to deal with physically.She's totally fine.But when Christine left, they offered me the part.And I stayed with it until,
They, oh, this was a good story.I finally took a vacation with my husband at the time and my two kids, and we were at Disney World.And literally I got off the plane and my agent left me a message.He went, can you call me please?I was like, oh no.
I just want to tell you this, literally in the airport in Orlando, I just want to tell you this.This is your two week notice because they're letting you go and Shirley Jones will be playing your part. Well, that makes sense.
And I heard she was terrific, but I remember the whole vacation.My kids would go, can I have that?It's like, no, put it down.No, you cannot have that.We can't have anything.We don't have any money anymore.
I'd love to ask a little bit about the Civil War and working with Jerry Zaks, but also I know you started with that show out of town and saw it through to its probably run.
Right. It was interesting.We started at the alley.And one of the things I loved about that show was when I walked in, I had done Crazy View, I had done 42nd Street, and I walked in, somehow I got the audition, and it was a really sad song.
And I remember going in and crying during the song.So they thought I was this, such a dramatic actress.And I was like... But I was crass. And later on, Frank Wildhorn said, we had no idea that you're like a hoofer and a musical comedy gal.Yes.
But most of us comedians have this other side of us anyway, that's available.So we went to the Alley Theater and Jerry Zaks was not there all the time.It was directing by committee, which sometimes can be a little interesting.
And so they kept trying to find the best way of storytelling.And of course, everyone has an idea. So we were there for quite a while.And then after that, we moved to the Schubert Theater in New Haven where it continued to evolve.
And then fortunately we got a Broadway run at the St.James, which didn't last very long.We just couldn't get an audience.The show was terribly reviewed.And I just remember that particularly the male singers, some of the voices in that show,
were unbelievable, are unbelievable.And a lot of the men came from the country world, from Nashville, from that recording, that genre out there.They could just wail.
But they heard they were going to Broadway, so a lot of them moved their families here, relocated.And then we got that thing on the announcement that says, Cass, there's a company meeting on stage at seven.And I knew what it was.
cause I just knew what it was and I'm not sure they did, they understood.And Jerry Zaks looked so distraught and sad and he told us we were closing that weekend.
And to walk around and watch one guy just fell to the floor cause he had just moved his two kids there.But oh, so that's the glamor of Broadway. And it closed.And there you go.And we didn't make an album.
We didn't make a cast album of it, which is really disappointing, but that's the way it is.Yeah.
And do you like to suggest changes in the rehearsal room to the script or the direction?
Rarely.You know, part of that's good and part of that's really bad because I'm a well-behaved Southern girl.
It's hard for me to go, excuse me, could I, but with Rachel, there was a couple of things, but usually in my head, I think they're much smarter about seeing the whole picture than I am.
But when I do remember telling Matt Gould who wrote, I said, you know, is it okay if that line's funnier? Because they're going to expect my first line, just because I've been doing this for so long, to be funnier.Is that OK?
And then I backpedal and apologize.He went, no, you're absolutely right.I went, oh, OK, good.Yeah.And sometimes I have really good ideas.Sometimes I just want to keep my mouth shut and let them do their work and let me do my work.Good and bad.
Do you know what I mean?Good and bad.
Yeah. And another project that you came into, I think sort of midway through, was Show Boat on Broadway.And how did that first happen, that revival?
Fascinating, because I had just done Crazy for You.I was with that, I think, for three years.And I left because I was pregnant with my second son.
But I stayed in that show until I was about five and a half weeks pregnant, when I could no longer lay it on the floor and the paint number and bad news, because I would like go, ugh!And they could no longer take out my costumes anymore.
So I was at home, I was, oh my gosh, eight and a half months pregnant, size of a house, and Stro, I can't think, she called me and said, are you available to replace somebody for a showboat in a month?
I went, I didn't say this, I was like, girl, have a baby. And so it worked out that, for lack of a better word, that after Sam was born, I had a costume fitting for Ellie Mae Chipley in Toronto while I was breastfeeding and after a C-section.
So I remember getting to the costume shop and them fitting me and thinking, A, these are not my breasts.These are, I don't know whose body this is.
And they were so kind as to give me six weeks of rehearsal just to, you know, slowly introduce me back to being physical after giving birth.And I stayed with, I played Ellie Mae Chipoli until it closed on Broadway.That's fun.Again, you know, dancing.
Boy, did it get me back in shape too.
And what was it like there, too, to work with Elaine Stritch if she was still in it by the time that you were gone?
Carol Shelley and I went in the same day.So I didn't even see Elaine.But this is interesting.The Gershwin is ginormous.And I remember having to essentially put breadcrumbs to find my way back to my dressing room or the green room.
And this is before cell phones, right before cell phones.And I hear over the speaker, Beth Lovell, you have a call in the green room.And that meant I had a call on the pay phone.I was like, OK.So I go, and I'm like, hello.It's in between shows.
She went, Beth, it's Elaine. She said, I just saw the show.I just want to tell you, that number has never been better.And I made something like that.And I said something like, oh, well, you know, they found me on the street.
And she went, just take the compliment.And I went, that was a big lesson for me.I went, you're absolutely right.I went, thank you so much.And then I don't remember the rest of the conversation because of the point.I hung up and she made my day.
that she took the time to call me on a pay phone.That was really thoughtful.So, yeah, Elaine.
And you have done a lot of shows that are either revivals or shows that are sort of set in an bygone era.And what do you think it is about your performance style that lends itself so well to Golden Age shows or Golden Age type shows?
Because now I feel like I'm cast in more, well, that's not true, more, you know, quote unquote, modern shows, shows of the time right now.I think, you know, I'm, I think I'm pretty vivid.I don't make small choices.
And sometimes back in the golden ages that, if you can make truthful large choices, that's kind of a gift.So I hope that's what I do.You just have to bump it up a little bit.It has to be more heightened than some of the musicals that exist.
in telling the story right now.It's not as realistic.It's more stylized and apparently I overact quite well.Thank you.Overacting.That's the name of my autobiography.Truthfully overacting with hand gestures by Deb Little.
Do you feel that there's sort of a specific route to your sense of humor?Does it come from your family or from things you've watched or just naturally?
I don't know, naturally.I don't know what that means.I think you're born with a sense of humor.I think I had that.My mother and father were wry, but they weren't funny.Again, I was, I grew up in the South in the 70s.
I didn't, you know, I was funny, but I didn't know what to do with it.I do remember my freshman year, I would do improv shows on my hall.And I remember getting such laughs, thinking, wow. I don't know how I'm funny.I just don't know how.
And then you just learn the math of funny without overthinking it.And now I usually know how to make things funny, truthfully.And I've been told that if I can't make it funny, it's not funny.So that to me is such a compliment.
I'm not sure it's true, but I'll take it.
I love to make people laugh.It's just, it's like, does my soul such good to make them truthfully laugh.
And maybe one of your funniest roles is as the chaperone and the drowsy chaperone.And how did that part and that show first come into your life?
That's an interesting question.This was Casey's first big directing gig.He had won a Tony for choreography for Spamalot.Is that right?Sorry, Casey.I think you should have like nine million of them.But I went in to audition.
And this is one of the roles, the drowsy chaperone, Beatrice Stockwell.It's one of those parts that aren't on the page. it's in the behavior, it's in the attitude, it's in what past I can bring to it without script.And no one really knew that.
I think they were just literally like fishing to see, anyone?Anyone make this funny?And I'm not even sure stumble was written or if it was, it hadn't become what it would become.So I went in and auditioned and I sang
because I didn't have the music for Stumble, the sure way to lose a man you met.And it was okay.It was okay.And they had me read one of the scenes, which was maybe three lines.And I had no idea what to do with it because I had no idea who she was.
And I got a call back, which was so great.And I went and did the same thing again.And then about a week later, which this never happens, but because Casey is a friend as well as
My director, he called me said I just have to tell you you didn't get the role, and I went, I said I know I know I said, I don't think it's me, I don't think I'm the one that's supposed to bring this woman to life anyway I think you're absolutely right.
I said, maybe you need someone older because this was. 17 years ago.Yeah, I think maybe.So rumor has it and I don't know all the details because I don't think they want to tell me.
But rumor has it they went to Los Angeles, the creative team to see what they could, you know, and apparently they auditioned for the kit.
Wow.Joan Van Ark, do you know her?She was from- Yes, Knox Landing.Yes, thank you for knowing that.And that kind of, Ginger, Tina Louise from Gilligan's Island.So they were looking for that ilk of a dame who, do you know, had life.
And apparently none of that worked and they came back and they offered it to someone in New York, I do believe.Not sure what happened, that didn't happen. Months later, I get a call from my agent saying, I have a job offer for you.
And that is like the best words, planet Earth, which means, you know, you don't have to audition.And I'm like, what is it?He said, well, they're offering you a Beatrice Stockwell in the drowsy chaperone.I went, oh no, that's not right.
I'm afraid you have to call them back.I wasn't right for the role.So I just hung up, waited.And he said, no, they've offered you this role.
You have to pack your bags because you're leaving in three weeks for a three month out of town tryout at the Amundsen Theater in LA.So from what my understanding was, they gave up.And I think Casey said, just give it to Beth.She'll do something.
She'll do something with it. So all of us, when we got to Los Angeles, were discovering who we were.And speaking of heightened performances, we went to rehearsal and we would spend two hours in the morning discussing the tone of the show.
And we would watch movies from the 20s and 30s and how everyone is so heightened, but truthful.So that we could just all have that same sensibility when we were on stage, except for Man and Cher. And I still didn't.
Sometimes you have to write a bio for your character to get to know them.It was the most bullshitty thing I'd ever written in my life, because I really didn't know.My parents were great stars in London.
But one day, we were doing improvs, which I was going, oh, good, improvs.See, they're games. But we were doing a game called Hot Seat.And this was about three weeks into the rehearsal process.I'm like, girl, get it together.Let's make some choices.
Of course, they were rewriting the script at the same time as they were just trying to, as we do, figure out the storytelling, the arcs, and all that kind of good stuff.And Hot Seat was that everyone was behind the table, the creative table.
as either their characters or something, and your character would come on stage, you'd sit on a stool, and they would fire questions at you, and you would have to answer it in your character.
Now, when you don't know your character, it's kind of a challenge.So again, there was a lot of blah, blah, blah.But during this one particular hot seat, I came out, and for the first time, I heard Casey Nicholaw go, ladies and gentlemen,
Dame Beatrice Stockwell.I'd never heard Dame before.So that informs in a way.And I slowly walked over there like the biggest queen star ever.And my cast and everybody stood up and were like, brava!Like I was the hugest star.
And I went, oh, thank you, dollies.And I bent all the way down to the floor.I was like, thank you.Maybe a little more of that would make me happy.And then I knew who she was.
then they knew who she was and we could build that from that delightful narcissistic diva legend.
And then we just explored and kept doing the improvs and it was, it's so satisfying to have been like the underdog and just be cast because they don't know really what else to do. And then you get a Shania Warren award.Thank you, thank you.
It's quite satisfying.And I, it was, you can imagine, she's one of the best things that ever happened to me.So many people are doing it now.It's so cool.And because of YouTube, you can watch everything now.
So it's just fascinating how, what a terrific show that was, is.
It is, it is, and because of your performance in large part.
Oh, thank you.And that's, as an actor, it was such a gift, that exploration from beginning, middle to end, and to come out and give birth to that fabulous woman who I just love.
I love love.And an actress you worked with on that show and some others, I believe, who's one of my favorites is Georgia Engel, who's sadly not with us anymore.And what was it like to work with her on that and name them?
She's such a doll and she's so, you know, she's a star whether she wanted to be or not.She has this sweetest voice and she was terrified to drop in Los Angeles.So she would take her car
pick me up at these Oakwood apartments, and then I would drive on the freeway.So I got to know her quite well.There's not a mean bone in her body.And I kind of felt like her parent when I was there.I wanted to take care of her, make sure she was OK.
But speaking of watching someone who knows their craft, she knows her craft.She knows her comedy.
And you mentioned having watched the 20s and 30s movies in the rehearsal room, and did you have specific actresses who served as influences?
Oh, I watched them all.Particularly, like, Raucho Marx up, and what was her name?Mildred.You know, she was always the one that stood out to me.
Thank you.I'm happy to do that.It's the way she spoke, which was considered so glamorous.
And you put that with some of the women who, you know, this Gloria Swanson and all that is a compilation of all that and a little of nothing coming out of my mouth.Right.
And has there been another part in your career that you face sort of a similar struggle with? with finding sort of who she was, or?
Not that comes to mind.I was going to say prom, but prom was written for Beth Lovell's copy.It was written for my voice, so I didn't have to explore that.It was just refining what worked, what Dee Dee Allen brought to that prom.
But original pieces now, because I'm older, usually they know I'm cast because of what I do.I'm not cast to see what I can do.It's like, ah, you can do that.You can sing that note.You cannot sing that note.
Oh, you can cry in that song, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that, which is really, it's a privilege.
Yes.And a show you did out of town, I believe also at the Amundsen that didn't end up coming in was Minsky's.Yeah. And what was it like to sort of see that show through its development, even though it didn't end up transferring?
Yeah, and you know, that show has been around for 25 years, trying to make it work.I remember Mike Ockrent tried to make it work.So many people, and it just... Charles Strauss' score was beautiful.It just never... became a cohesive piece.
But if you go on YouTube, some of, I mean, some of my songs, Home and You Gotta Get Up When You're Down, I wish it had moved, because it was so exciting and glorious and had Casey Nicholaw and Greg Barnes stamped all over it in the best of ways.
So who knows if it's done, but nothing else I can say, I killed it.No, I was last one to try to give it a go to see if we could give the show legs.
And you won the Tony, of course, for Jossie Chaperone, and you were then nominated again for Baby, It's You.What was it like to work on that show, which was a jukebox musical, so of course a little different in that way, but developing that role.
Yeah, oh I got stories.When my memoir comes out, it was complicated.It had been done in Los Angeles.And it's a great story.But I think people had trouble letting go of ideas that were perceived to be precious and correct.
And when you got to New York, you had a group of really talented people who I don't think we got the opportunity to celebrate Florence Greenberg as much as we should have.The audience loved the music.It just needed to be
needed someone with objective eyes to come in and go oh great story how about we how about we and that never happened but boy were we close as a cast and I find this to be true when after a show opens particularly if it's after a show opens the
things that happen to a company and a show when we're allowed just to live in it and to find truthful transitions and things that don't take away from the story and don't, you know, what's the famous saying?
Let me come in and take out all your improvements.It's to really, in a safe place, explore and grow and learn and make the show better.And I think we had gotten to that.We're getting to that.It was like me and Brandon Uranowitz was my son.
And we just, you know, we made a pretty gosh darn good show that still people will stop me and go, I love Baby Chu.And it's like, thank you.Cause we really worked hard on to make that story good and celebrating her life.
with these great tunes, my gosh.And it was the first time my picture had been, the first time my picture had been on a marquee, which was just like, oh my God.I would turn down 45th street and there's me in these white sunglasses.
That was kind of thrilling.And then it closed.Anyhow, but I had a poster.
And when you are playing a real person like Florence Greenberg, do you like to do research on the part or to what extent?
I don't want to imitate her because that wasn't the show at all.It was really fictionalized to a point, but there were moments I wanted to know, was it true that her daughter went to the high school talent show and discovered the Shirelles?
And that was true.What was their relationship?I will do research, but again, I've never had to play a person to imitate. someone.I was just giving the essence.
I don't think my Florence Greenberg, the way she was written for Baby It's You, she was much more glamorous.And, you know, had her clothes were, I had 25 costume changes in that show.
I'm not sure that was actually, was Florence, the real Florence Greenberg's authenticity.But boy, was it fun to do that.But yeah, I do want to know, I do want to know about them.I mean, the Baroness in Lempicka, that was a real person.
So I was trying just to find something just so we'd know about her.Was she really, you know, what was it like to be a Baroness back then?What happened to her?She, you know, she died of leukemia.So she was sick, just to know that stuff, that inform.
And a similar sort of question is when you're doing a show that's based on a very famous movie like Elf or like Devil Wears Prada or something like that.Do you go back to that portrayal or?
Once, only once.Like I watched the Devil Wears Prada once.I mean, I'd seen it.I watched Elf once.
And then you have to kind of like let it go because now you're doing, you're musicalizing that app, which is a different media, is a medium, a different everything.So I just wanted to go back with the story and where they were born.
And then you have to make it your own with the help of your directors and writers and all that stuff.But it's nice to see where it came from.And I went and read, for Prada, I went back and read her book, which was fantastic.
But then I let it go because now I have a script and now I have this, and now she's not like, it's not gonna be like Meryl Streep.It's gonna be like Beth Leavel. But then I have to say those famous lines, at least when I did it.
I don't know what it's going to be like later.But when I did it, I still had to say, that's all.And it's interesting because a movie that famous, if you went, that's all, they would kill me.They would kill me.Florals for spring, groundbreaking.
If I go, florals for spring? groundbreaking, you know, I've been there.So that was the only time I've had to, you know, worship the lines that were legends and deliver those because people would have been furious as I would have been.
And plus they're written so well.I mean, that line is, that's all.I mean, that's florals, florals.That's a whole show right there. Taking lines that are famous and screwing them up.Right, right.That's all.What?
And Elphors, a show where I know you were working with your husband, Adam Heller.And what is it like when you get to collaborate on stage production?
Oh, it's great.You know, we like each other so much.Thank God.We did Gypsy together.Is that what you said?We did Gypsy at the Muny.He was my Herbie and I was, you know, Rose.And A, just because it's nice to have someone
that you can talk about your insecurities and fear and joy and run the lines at night and feel so safe around and so comfortable in the love scenes.And, you know, we would just it was so easy.
And I would just look into his eyes and we're not competitive with each other.So it's terrific.I love working with him.Until I don't don't get it.OK.
And you mentioned doing Gypsy at the Muny, and I know you've done quite a few shows there over the years.And what do you like about that venue, which of course is unusually huge for- Yeah, it's a very intimate, intimate setting of 11 people.
What I like about the Muny is, especially now, the production values are off the chart.It's so supported by its community.It's a thing of its own.It's like St.Louis in that area of the country's Broadway.
And there's nothing like coming out and singing some people.And there's 11,000 people you can still see because it's daylight. And then you get to, like when I did 42nd Street, the sun is down, there's wind.
I was in chiffon and I'm singing, only have eyes and there's a moon.I'm like, oh, come on.It's hard to explain what that feels like.And then we did Oklahoma there and there were horses on stage.So it was like, it's like outdoor drama at its best.
And then another show, jets fly over.It's just, I have a term we now call, how are we gonna muni-ize this?Make it huge.It's like, yeah, let's muni-ize that number.Bring in the drops and the planes and the dancing girls.
And having done Gypsy and Peledali and Mame, is there another one of those great roles that you would like to take on?
You know, people go, what's your next role you want to do?And the next one hasn't been written.That said, people are telling me, which this is such a terrible confession, I've never seen Sunset Boulevard.
Because when it was running, I was doing another show, people going, oh my God, you really shouldn't do that.So I may, maybe, maybe, I don't know.I did Mame, but I did Vera.
Ah, which to me was so satisfying, because Dee Hody was my name, and she had to work so hard.And I go, Hey, I did Vera right before drowsy.So some of Vera present self and Beatrice Stockwell, too, which I thought was very convenient.
And another show you did a revival of was no, no, no, not that on course.And what was it like there with such a quick process for the great show.
Oh my God, it was so quick and it about killed me.You know, I'm not a dancer.I'm a mover.I move really well and I have a certain stylistic quality that I fake, that people assume that I'm a dancer, but I'm really, really not.
And I mean, I can tap and I can do certain things, but I have no technique.So to come in, I was coming from Minsky's.
Yes.Coming from Minsky's.I got this show. And we went into rehearsal with Randy Skinner and I'm dancing with Michael Burress as a dance partner, which I just, all I kept saying was, I'm so sorry.Oh God, I'm so sorry.I am so sorry.
And if there had been oxygen downstage, right, I would have, I really would have preferred it.Cause after that number, you can dance with, if you look, I'm like.
But I thought one of the favorite, most favorite things I've ever done in theater is singing, where has my hubby gone blues? at City Center with the backup of 25 glorious men behind me in one of Greg Barnes' costumes.Oh my gosh!
That was very exciting.I was hoping that one would move, but it didn't.I don't know.
And we've talked a lot about Casey Nicholaw and your collaboration with him and two shows of his I know you worked on at some point in their processes were
Chuck Everlasting and Something Rotten, and what's it like to work with him on those two pieces, even though not ultimately?
You know, if Casey Nicholaw calls me and goes, I need, it's like, yes, I need you, yes, I'm never going to say no to him.I learned something and I love him and I love his work and his taste.
And Tucker Everlasting was, Carolee had been associated with this for so long, but she got another musical that she, the commitment she couldn't get out of in the run down at the Alliance Theater.And he said, can you come finish her run?
And then she would take over the role on Broadway.And I went, sure.Why would I say no?So I went down there and did it. And the other one was something rotten.That was so much fun.But ultimately the role wasn't meant to be mine.
You know, I should have been a little younger and they were so kind about going, I think you're too old.I went, damn, yeah, you're right.And so, so sweet.Cause I love Heidi Blick and stuff.And she called me and she went, is this okay?
And I went, I cannot think of a better person to hand this role than to you.It's brilliant. And then I did something else.This always seems like, oh my gosh, well, look, this happened.So you can't do them all.
And the prom, as you mentioned, was developed specifically for you.And when did you first sort of find out about it?Were you involved from the beginning, or were they writing?
Yes, from the very beginning.Well, at the end of Elf, the second time we did it, I looked at Matt Squire and Chad Baigel and I went, what is next?What are we doing?And they both looked at me like they had the biggest secret known to man.
I went, what's happening?Maybe eight months later, we were at Casey Nicholaw's studio and all sitting around and it was me, Brooks, Angie, Chris, and two other women playing the Caitlin and Izzy part.And we read its first
uh, the first birthing of it nine years ago.Wow.And after that, then the Alliance picked it up years later.And then we went down to the Alliance.It got terrific reviews, you know, still needed a lot of work.
And then Casey got Mean Girls that had a Broadway theater.So we, again, had to put it on hold for another two years.And then it opened in 2016.Is that right?Yeah.
On Broadway, I think 2018.
When I say 2016, that's what I meant.Yes, 2018.Yes.And that's another one that should still be running.
Yeah.And what was it like, too, to work with this sort of younger generation of performers as kind of the other half of the cast?
Love it.It was so interesting. the principals would go and sit on the floor and watch their dance numbers.And they would come in and watch our scene work.So I just am fascinated by dancers.I don't know how they do it.I have no idea how they do it.
How do they do it and sing and then, you know, play a part?I don't have those skills.And so we would watch each other's craft grow in what was coming to prom.And it was interesting too, Casey really encourages that.
He said, you're in a room full of old people who have done this for a while.Why don't you, why don't you watch and learn?So it was, I loved, it was just like Lempicka, watching them dance.I'm like, how do you do this?How, how?I just, I'm mesmerized.
I'm a huge fan. So to have the opportunity to watch them is awesome.And they were terrific.
And how did the show evolve over the time you were with it?And was there cut material or things like that?
Oh, Lord, yes, there was a lot of cut material.One of the big things that had to change, which you don't know until you get in front of an audience, was that we call ourselves the olds.Me, Brooks, Chris, and Angie, we call ourselves the olds.
We realized the olds particularly Deedee and Barry, as bitchy as they were, they had to be lovable and likable.And you could see that they had a heart of gold.
And to work on that in the script and as an actor, I think we really successfully did that, particularly with Deedee.You know, her coming from that such a narcissistic place and then falling in love with Michael Potts' character.
And Noah, just opening her humanity, still being flawed, was really amazing. And the numbers changed and the storytelling, you're trying to focus on what's really important change.But a lot of things didn't.
A lot of things were nailed in Atlanta and stayed there in the show, not in Atlanta.Can you imagine?We left the end of Act One and we just left it in Atlanta.
And do you have favorite pieces of cut material overall that you've done in shows or not?
I don't have it, except in here, but in Drowsy Chaperone, Linda Griffin, who lives in Los Angeles, was one of the ensemble members.
When she left the show, we went out in the lobby after a Sunday matinee of Drowsy Chaperone, sat around, and Bob Martin And one of the stage managers, I believe, read all the cut dialogue from Los Angeles to New York.
And I have, it should be a book, because some of the stuff was so But it just, you have to, you know, as Mike Nichols, you have to kill the babies to make sure the show works.And a lot of stuff just had to go.But it was so funny.
I think it should be a book.Yes.Cut funny lines from musicals.It's fascinating.Sometimes you love it so much, it's like, sorry, but it has to go.Because it doesn't serve the whole piece.Right?
you mentioned some challenge in developing D.D.Allen of sort of finding that role earlier on, and what was that specific process like?
Yeah, part of it was the writing, part of it was knowing that even if you have an exclamation point, it doesn't mean you're angry.What does it, what do, just finding out what she needs, what
what's happening with her that needs to, that changed, that had to change because she was not happy with herself.That sounds so stupid, but that's how, to me, people go, they're like, what about Ladies Improving?Isn't it just a great belt song?
It's like, Yeah, but it's driven by the story of, I'm singing this for you because I know how much you love this song and I want to show you that I am worth loving.
And that'll change the whole tone of the song, as opposed to just singing this fabulous belt song.It's about, do you see how much you can love me?
So, and that makes you love her even more as opposed to, you know, you've been on, you've watched bitchy characters and there's no heart, there's no, nothing else to get inside of.And it's a little exhausting.
So just to find that with Dee Dee was, was fun.It was fun.
And the problem was, I believe the last Broadway show you did before the pandemic.And what was that period like for you as someone who worked so often and does,
It was weird, you know, Devil Wears Prada happened in the middle of it, but that was in Chicago and that took about, I don't know, two years to the pandemic.I did a lot of you know, theater's not happening right now.
So I did a lot of teaching online, did Zoom things.We're very creative, us actors and show business people.Not only for financial, but just to keep our heartbeat alive.Like, oh, can I still sing?You know, it's a muscle.
It's like, maybe we need to start vocalizing.And then I also started doing a lot, when it opened up a little bit, a lot of concert work.
all over the place, which is really satisfying because people want to hear about Jouelzy Chaperone and Prom and the questions that you're answering and I have show tunes to answer.
And what was it like to work on The Devil Wears Prada with Elton John and with Anna Shapiro in this?
Oh, she was terrific.Elton wasn't there a lot.He writes his stuff.And he did come to see one of the shows in Chicago.It was so amazing.We were backstage.And all of a sudden, we hear, blah.Elton's here.
Oh, just to be able to, it was terrifying to be able to do the show in front of him.And he came backstage and he said he loved it.So, you know, that version of Devil Wears Prada wasn't meant to happen, but no regrets at all.
I got to wear couture Prada clothes.Come on.And to say, that's all.
And I wonder too, do you like to read reviews of the productions that you're in or how does that?
Never, I never read them.I mean, sometimes that's impossible because it's quoted on things around Times Square or maybe later after the show closes where I'm not.My line is, will it affect me one way or another?
Will it change my performance one way or another?Even if something, even if it's like, oh, Beth Leavel, when she did that hand gesture, it was the funniest thing.
That hand gesture is never organic again, because he said my hand gesture is just never going to be the same.Or if that song Beth Leavel sang was dreadful, how can I ever?
And you hate to give power like that, but I'm a human being, I can't help it, so I don't read them.I don't read them. That'll teach him.
And I'd love to ask about two projects that you did with Brooks Ashmanskas as well.One of them being the reading of Sugar Babies that you did together.
Yes, I had just come back from a trip to Italy.And I do remember I got so sick. that one of the productions, one of the performances for, I couldn't sing.So I literally could not sing.So I sat on a stool and I went, Jen Cody, sing for me.
And I just, she sang and I just kind of acted it.Cause I, nothing, I had nothing.That's what I remember.And them trying to make me tap dance.It was like, oh, okay, I'm going to really try. But yeah, and Brooks was in there.
Brooks, it's hard to pay attention when Brooks is in the room.
And the other one you did together after the pandemic was SMASH, the workshop of SMASH.And what was that like?
Oh my God, to be in the room with SMASH.And it was so last minute.I'm sure somebody went, can't do it, call Beth Lovell.So to sit in that room and just to, I was there for like a week and it was so much fun.
And at the very end, when we were getting ready to do a two o'clock presentation, I think it was Mark Shaman or Scott Whitman go, by the way, just so you'll know, Steven Spielberg's going to be here for the reading.And it was like, oh, cool.
I thought this is just going to be easy.But so I just tried to ignore him when he walked in the room and was like, hey, how you doing?But Smash has such a following.It's such a delicious story.Yes.So that'll be here soon.
Yes.Well, I'd love to ask you one final question, which is with such a great career in the theater, what advice would you give to somebody just starting out as an actor?
I hope you really want to do this.You have to have passion.You're going to have to have dedication because it's a tough, tough business, but I wouldn't have it any other way.Study your craft.
See who you are or who you are becoming as a performer, as an artist.Watch, see as much as you can.Be a professional.Learn your lines.And be kind.Be kind.And keep studying, keep working.And I'll see you on Broadway.
That is great advice.Well, thank you so much for doing this.
Listeners, thank you for tuning in.
Remember to buy tickets to Beth Leavel sings Sondheim, and make sure to come back next time when I will be joined by Broadway legend Betsy Jocelyn, who has appeared in Sweeney Todd, Sunday in the Park with George, Into the Woods, A Doll's Life, A Few Good Men, Les Mis, The Goodbye Girl, and High Society.
You won't want to miss that episode, so make sure to tune back in for that, and thanks for listening.
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