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So tune in, get inspired, grab your coffee, and let's unlock the expert in you. Hi everyone.Welcome back to another episode of expert in your podcast.I'm your host, Dan Carden.And I have to tell you, I am really excited for my guest today.
She is amazing.She's done some incredible things throughout her life and she is a retina specialist and a surgeon, but she's also done a lot of things even in her childhood.So welcome to my show, Dr. Vivian Kim.How are you?
Thank you, Anne.Thank you for having me on this podcast.And I'm looking forward to talking to you about my varied interests.
I'm so excited to talk to you because you are just doing amazing things in your practice, and we're going to get into that, how you have shifted your practice and become a trailblazer in your industry.
But before we do that, you've done some really great things.You come from a big family.You've done some really great things in your childhood.And so I really want to start there.What were some of the things?Tell us a little bit about your backstory.
Okay, well, I am basically grew up in the Northeast.I am Korean-American, born of Korean immigrants.And my father actually came over to do his surgical training as a cardiothoracic surgeon.
Anyway, so I grew up in the suburbs of Connecticut and I have to say it was a very insular upbringing because really all I did was study and actually practice the piano.So I have to, I am a self-confessed nerd, I have to say.
And I can actually remember, I just saw my best friend from high school and she will still remember the stories.
And when she tried to call me to talk about some homework assignment and my mother would answer the phone, typical tiger mom, and she could hear me practicing the piano in the background.And my mother would say, Vivian is not home.
because she didn't want to get interrupted and have me interrupt my piano practicing and get distracted by my friends.
So I would practice three to four hours a day the weekends and on the school night it was a mandatory two hours practicing every evening no matter what.
Now, did you do anything with that skill or was it just to learn it and practice or did you do any kind of professional?
Well, I was a competition.Oh, there we go.
So I did compete and, you know, won competitions where I would play, you know, with an orchestra, you know, after winning a competition, my big one was actually the rock too.Not the rock that you often hear about and they've made movies about.
but the Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No.
That's amazing.Now, you also have a big family.So your father was a thoracic cardio surgeon, right?And so you got this honestly, as far as your medical career.But you also have a lot of siblings as well.How many brothers and sisters do you have?
I'm one of six, actually. So it's actually a girl's sandwich because my oldest is a brother, my youngest is a boy, and there were four girls in between.So it really was a girl's sandwich.
And it was the classic, you know, heir and spare, trying to get the second boy, son.And I kept trying and got a bunch of girls in the middle. Pretty typical Asian culture.
I love it.I love it.So, but then you went on to do competition ballroom dancing.So let's talk about that.How old were you when you did that and what got you into that?
I actually was a very late bloomer in regards to this.So I was a classical concert piano, and I actually think that it helped me in my career, chosen career as a retina specialist, the surgical skills that are involved in the microsurgery.
So it was a very natural fit for me, but the dancing, I think the dancing is in my like bones, I guess that you can call it, but just didn't have the chance to pursue it.So I was a late developer and I started actually my 40s.
And the reason I started was I didn't like not knowing what I was doing when I went to a salsa club one year. And I was there trying to figure out how to do the salsa dance and not liking the fact that I couldn't figure it out.
And I didn't like leading.I mean, I'm sorry, I didn't like following a gentleman's lead.So I figured I needed to learn it so I could be in the know.And that was my start in ballroom dancing.
And I started actually quite late, even though I felt like it could have been a career.
I'm seeing themes here.She's an overachiever.She's also a trailblazer and she doesn't like to not do things well.That's same thing as an overachiever.Yeah, you've really done a lot of amazing things.
So then at what point did you decide you wanted to get into medicine and become a doctor and a surgeon?How did that all transpire?
Well, I think I just must have gotten that that love of it from osmosis.I just knew I never had a thought process of wondering what I should do because I think it was in there of medicine.
I can remember my father's textbooks in those days, there was no internet.So he literally had these very thick texts for three, four inches thick, lying open because he was studying for his board examination.
And I would see the picture since he was a surgeon, I would see actually major reconstructive surgery of, you know, babies that were born with deformities and surgical techniques to repair those.
And I would be fascinated and actually look at the before and after pictures.And I'd see all the red underlying no highlighters in those days, either the red pen. And I just was fascinated.So that was a natural.
There was no thinking when it came to what should I do when I graduate from school.And so it was a natural path.
How did you decide to go into retina specialty?
That's interesting that you ask you there, because at that point I do remember thinking, what should I do?Because all of medicine was interesting.
So when I came to picking my specialty with ophthalmology, it was a difficult choice because everything I did, it was fascinating and interesting.
And I think ophthalmology gives you the best combination of doing care in a general sense, where you have patients that consider you as their eye doctor, continuity with the patients.
But you're also a surgeon because things you've just fixed surgically.So it was that blend of wanting to be a surgeon and loving surgery, but also wanted to have that care in the sense of like primary care doctors have a patient base where
become a part of the family, essentially, right?
Oh, yes.Yeah, that makes sense.When you think about just like a general physician, they really don't do surgery and things like that.Right.Right.
So being a general ophthalmologist is like being a, like a primary care for eyes.And then the surgery part is just that additional skill set, of course, you know, to do to fix, have to be fixed surgically.
And then retina, because now retina is a subspecialty of ophthalmology.So it requires additional training, two years of training.And I think I love the retina.And I decided to do that as a subspecialty because it's very visual.
I found I was very good at it just right off the bat.And I was seeing things in a very difficult to see space.Can you imagine the little postage stamp that's in that?Not at all.
Or, you know, four CCs of space that your eyeball, that constitutes your eyeball. and being able to see what's going on there and seeing the problems and try being able to fix it.
And, you know, the surgery inside that little four cc is the microsurgery.
So how long were you an ophthalmologist before you decided to really specialize in retina?
Oh, actually, after you finish your general training in ophthalmology, which is a three year training program after one year of internship, additional two years, so it's continuous.
Okay, let's go from one to the next as you decide what you'd like to really hone in on as a specialty.Okay, and you have to you get out and you do you work.
Yes.So you worked for another medical profession for a long time, several years, from what I understand.
I was actually part of a multi-specialty ophthalmology group for 16 years until I decided to strike out on my own in solo practice.
Okay.And that's a lot of what we want to talk about because you found out some things, but while being in the healthcare space, you found out a lot of things are not quite what they're cracked up to be, so to speak.
And you found out that there were a lot of issues and a lot of problems and things that you had to overcome.And then when you got into your practice, and we'll talk a little bit about that,
what that all looked like and what you've been able to do in your practice, which is really what's bringing us to, to this podcast so so talk about some of the problems that are out there right now in the healthcare space and what doctors are facing and the burnout and those kinds of things and
the things that you experienced as well.
I actually was, so in my 16 years of working with this multi-specialty group, it was a wonderful group of people that I started out with and I was getting very busy doing the retina specialty treatments of the patients of this ophthalmology practice.
And it just got busier and busier.I think as time goes on, there's the aging baby boomers, there's just more disease and there's actually more
innovation with pharmacology and pharmacologic drugs that made the application and delivery of these treatments.Now it's great because there is these new treatments, but it just makes the provider and the provider of these treatments just busier.
So I was just getting busier and busier.I was seeing up to 80 to a hundred patients a day. Wow, that's imagine when you're younger, it's like it's like a challenge, right?So a good challenge.
I think we all do we have that very all the adrenaline, and it really hones your skills and focuses your mental efforts.
I've always found that to be something that could be aspired to, but I find after a while it's going to take a toll, right?Right.First and foremost, something's got to give like that movie with Jack Nicholson.
So I, you know, it's going to be either your attention to the patient, you know, fine, even your own physical energy, right, give to your family and what happens after, you know, work hours are done.So it's really unrelenting.
And now they talk about burnout.But I think when I was in the in the throes of that, that practice model, Burnout wasn't as common a word then.Now they say that 50% of doctors are burned out.
And this is even as young as, you know, physicians that are just leaving their residency are already recognizing that they're burned out just by the sheer number of years of the training that they have to go.
Has it gotten worse over the years though as time has gone on, there's less and less doctors and physicians right so there is a shortage, it's acknowledged by the American Medical Association that there is going to be a physician shortage.
higher level of burnout and in five healthcare practitioners, including nurses, are deemed and thought to retire in the next, well, that was a couple of years ago, so already in the next maybe three years.
So not only is there a shortage in the providers as they're aging, they're probably retiring earlier than they would without the burnout,
It also looks like we're not going to have the same number of doctors coming up in the ranks, the younger doctors coming up, because it's becoming a specialty that has a reputation of needing a huge commitment, lots of time, and yet satisfaction may not be there as much as it used to be.
And it's sad to say, because I consider the medical field to be a helping profession, and there's such a great satisfaction in helping patients.
So everything that we all consider to be a right, which is health and well-being, and certainly there's a need for those professionals, but I think that the shortage is going to cause problems with the delivery model,
and everything, cost of healthcare, access to healthcare is going to become a big problem and is a big problem currently.
We really do need a reform in our healthcare, I believe.
And yet healthcare is actually probably a very conservative sector and it probably takes the longest.It doesn't pivot as quickly as maybe small businesses would and other industries like technology, right? Right.Lots of changes that are happening.
So fast.And yet in health care, we don't have the ability and a lot because of the regulations.
And I think the group of people that tend to go into medicine, I think we're a conservative bunch, very much used to following a pathway that has been preset before us.It's a long one. but we know the pathway.
It's so many years of school, passing so many tests.Then you go to the next stage, next stage, and it's set before you.So there's not a lot of innovation or thinking about this.It is what it is.
And you'll definitely see that the older doctors will, you know, when I was a young whippersnapper, this is what we did.
And they expect the next generation to do the same without questioning its validity and its usefulness and whether it needs to change. So this is part of the culture of medicine that we have to fight not only externally, but also internally.
So it's a problem that's continued even by the old people that are beset by the problems, the healthcare providers.
So at what, so you, you left the group that you were with and you decided to start your own practice.And we know that with a practice come a lot of responsibilities that you didn't probably have working for a group.
You have to learn how to do everything, right?All the medical coding and the insurance side of it, and just anything and everything that goes along with being an entrepreneur, because that is what you're doing.
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It's not just a publication.It is a movement.So talk about through the years you've been doing that six or seven years.Is that right?Six or seven.And then you decided to actually make a shift and a pivot in your business.
in your practice, but you didn't exactly know if it could be done because it had never been done in a specialty practice.And that is you created a concierge model in a specialty practice.
And to your knowledge, you don't know anyone who has done that.And so you're blazing a trail.Let's talk about that.
Well, it's interesting because I, and to say, and I'm only saying this to make a point again about our culture in healthcare, that I ended up leaving this multi-specialty practice because as much as I was so fortunate to have a great group of people and an organization that really worked hard to treat its patient base, but I started not getting along
with my partners.So, and it's an illustration and of course, partly due to my own immature immaturity and the ability of myself and my fellow partners to be able to communicate well in conflict.
I find that this is kind of symptomatic, I think of healthcare in general and physicians in general and organizations in general, that may not lead to the most ideal outcomes.And it's part of the problem, I think, why we're not able to fix.
problems that happen in health care, because you need to really have good communication amongst a group of people that may not have the same viewpoints and same values.I mean, look at politics.I mean, it really is a problem.Oh, gosh.
I was just thinking that when you said that.I was just thinking this is a perfect example of what we do.
So I did end up leaving because I didn't have the maturity and the skills to actually resolve those problems. And so I thought I would strike on my own and do things my way.And so I opened my solo traditional practice at that time.
And even then that was considered a little bit off the beaten track because everything in medicine is now about consolidation and getting bigger and bigger because there's more, I guess, clout and power in bigger organizations in terms of negotiations and
and all that with insurance companies.So I did the actual, the opposite by pulling away and going into solo, but that went very well.
And so I got busier and busier and I realized again, I was falling into the same model that I had at my other practice where the volume was just becoming
more and more, not because I wanted the volume to be more and more, but it's just inevitable because of the needs of the patient population.There's not, if there's not enough providers to do this.
So I wanted to come up with, and I realized I was spending less and less time with each patient.And frankly, I was afraid that there would be a mistake or something would happen. where patients are getting the best outcome.
So I decided and I looked around, I think there's got to be a better way to deliver the health care.And I'm just thinking about my small space, right?I'm not thinking that I'm going to change medicine, right?Or the world, right?
I just want to change my small area of my life.And I looked around and I felt that I was providing a concierge level of service in my practice, my boutique practice, which was why it was growing so quickly.
So I wanted to see what that would look like and if that would be possible.And when I did look around, I didn't see any models of it in ophthalmology and certainly not in retina. So I even looked at and attended conferences.
There's this great concierge medicine forum conference in Atlanta every year.
And I went and I attended that hoping to find somebody and get some ideas, but once again, came up with, well, we don't know, you know, we don't have any examples in ophthalmology.
We don't know if it really would work, you know, how would that look like?And I think the difficulty was that in primary care, there's no surgery. A lot is the patient and doctor relationship and interaction.
And it's the cerebral thinking of all the medical issues.But in surgery, there's actually a surgical procedure and there's a whole different skill set there.A lot of works a little differently for surgeons. in terms of reimbursement and all that.
So it was how to mix those two aspects of delivering medical and surgical care that I wasn't seeing that model in.
So I just decided that after getting the ideas in general of what concierge looks like, which is delivering more high touch care, I just had to adapt and innovate and decide how it would be applicable to a retina practice.
And that's what took about a year to transition.Is that about right?
Right.And that's just me.It doesn't have to be slow.It just takes a while to get everybody on board and understanding what is happening.Sure.5,000 patients in my patient base and to get the communication out there and
getting them actually segued into the new model or having them say, well, maybe this is not for me.And then having to pass them on to another provider.
So it's a while.You really did reinvent the wheel.I mean, as far as there, again, you didn't have someone you could go to to help you really speed that success.You had to kind of figure this model out and create really your own system for that.
Yeah.I don't think I, I mean, I can't say that I did all on my own.I think you always learn from the ones before you.I mean, concius medicine has been around since the 1990s probably.
So that's really already 30 plus years, mostly in internal medicine or family practice, but you still learn and have the lessons that you can apply.Sure.Any innovation actually is just a new, is not a new idea.It's an old idea that's been
reworked right right right exactly so you've been able to transition very successfully and now you are going to be teaching other specialists how they can transition their practice as well and have a concierge model, but I want to talk about what happened for you.
when you actually transitioned into a concierge model.Let's talk about the freedom that you gained from that, what your patients have to say about that, and just overall, your happiness with your practice.
I want to talk about like all the benefits that you have seen.
I think, I mean, right off the bat, which is what you would presume, is that with more time, right?You're seeing way less patients, right?And then, so you have more time to spend with them as you schedule the patients further apart.
And I used to schedule like three patients every 15 minutes, and now I schedule them one every 30 minutes.So you can imagine that you can slow way down and talk to the patients, see them holistically.And it's interesting, like with time and thought,
things come to you that might not be immediately apparent, right?And I think in that space, of thought that you have the chance of doing better.And that's what you want for your patient.And then of course, being able to do that.
I mean, that's such a great feeling not to be rushed from one room to the other, right?And then at the end of the day, so then you have the idea.So I think one of the biggest changes, I think my patients, of course, love it.
They come in, we're like a family, they come in, they're not even sitting down in the reception room. and they get to sit and they actually even get to shoot the breeze, we get to know their personal lives a little bit more.
But better than that, I mean, they come in, they can ask all the questions they want about their health care, and I can educate them more about why they get this injection, what it means, and talk about the nuances that I wouldn't even have time to share.
of my specialty.And some, not every, it's not, it's not for every patient, but some patients love the detail because then they actually can participate in their own care.They take charge.
I mean, if I actually even deviate from my usual protocol, they're able to pick it up. That's not what you usually do because they are so trained and they know now because they are able to pay attention.
They know what's going on with their own care because I've shared my pattern and management with them.So when they look like I'm deviating, they're like, Hey, Dr. Kim, wait, why are you doing this one differently?
So, and I think that's, I think that's great.This is great.This is a patient who now is self-involved in their care and taking charge. Right.And now they're able to help me as a, it's a relationship.
They're helping me in the participation of their care, which is great.I think that's great.
It is.And, and they have to love that.I mean, one of the biggest frustrations in when you need to see a doctor or physician is not being able to get in the long wait time that, you know, those are all problems that we all struggle with.
And then to, to feel like you're really kind of herded through,
I mean, can you imagine like you see one doctor and they tell you have a surgical problem, and then the next day you're in surgery with a different doctor, right, where's the continuity there and this practices are trying to fit in all the patients in the most efficient way without burning out the physicians.
That's not an ideal continuity of care model.Right.
But you also had some really incredible stories that you had shared with me on things that you caught things that you caught in people's health that you would not have had time to really dig into before or maybe even notice.
And I, one particular story that you shared, and I would love for you to share it with the audience was the woman that was in a wheelchair.Tell that story.
And this is what happened as a result of you slowing down, having more time with your patients and getting to know them and building that relationship and looking at things holistically.So go ahead and share that story.
Right.So I had a patient who had a diagnosis. That was neurologic, not my area.
So even though they joke that the retina is part of the brain, but so between one visit to the next, which is only a space of a couple months, she was a walking, you know, would walk in.And then all of a sudden she was in a wheelchair.
And I asked her what that transition, why all of a sudden the wheelchair, did she break her leg?Did she fall? Fall risk is a big thing with elderly patients.So she said, no, it just seems to be like my neurologic issue, neuropathy has gotten worse.
And so she wasn't able to feel the floor.And so then she was stumbling more and couldn't find her balance.
So then she's in the wheelchair and I'm saying, well, that's a big change in two months because typically these things progress a little bit slower. And especially since they never told her what the origin of why she had this problem.
This is a very common problem seen in diabetics, but she was not a diabetic.She was elderly, but not diabetic.So it just struck me like in the back of my head as I'm treating her eyeball, that this doesn't really seem to be usual.
And she actually had very involved family members that were part of her care would bring her in.So this woman was in her late 80s, close to 90.
So I said to the family members, I think maybe it might be worthwhile to get a second opinion to see about this.Because number one, I as a doctor was not receiving good answers when I asked my questions.
Because it wasn't making sense to me as a medical doctor, though it's not my area of specialty and certainly sometimes we're just as ignorant as the lay public, but because something seemed off.
a little like warning bell was ringing in the back of my head.I did encourage them to get a second opinion, which they did.And it took six months to get the second opinion.So again, to the expert care was sad, but they persisted.
And ultimately she didn't just have this unknown etiology.She actually had a spinal cord tumor pressing on her lower back that caused her progressing neuropathy.And once she had surgery, she was on her way to recovery.
I mean, it was slow, but the doctor was very optimistic about the cure, and now she's able to walk.I mean, if it had just gone on and on, they would have accepted this, and then it would have led to lower extremity paralysis eventually, ultimately.
Right.And instead they found a solution and answer and a solution and a cure.Right.
So I felt good about that because this was not in my, you know, wheelhouse obviously as a retina specialist, but I think and it may be able to pay attention I think this is anybody I think parents, children, right.
And we say this entrepreneurs, they have to have thinking time.They have to have time where they slow down and they think about what they're doing.So yes, absolutely.
This is actually one of the benefits.And it's funny that you say that, but I didn't.And it took me like a few years into this concierge journey for even myself to realize because I was dealing with the transition.I was doing the new model.
And how does it feel?How does it work?And figuring out the logistics Right.
Once I was able to step back in this new schedule, I realized that I as a doctor and an entrepreneur had so much more time in my brain to be more creative, to be actually more innovative, and to think outside that box and to think of new things.
So I don't feel like I'm there yet in terms of all the offerings and all the things that I can make my practice great.I mean, it's an evolution.
You have to have time to evolve.
And to do all that creative space that there's a lot of thinking space involved in.And we don't have doctors that are like pressed, you know, to see a patient every five minutes, 10 minutes or whatever it is.
And if we're doing that eight to 10, 12 hours a day, where do you have the space then to be?
You don't, you have no energy, you have no time you have, and you're, you're just exhausted and you're just on overdrive.
Right.And it's not even just for your, you know, special.It's also for your family.It's also right.It's right.It's also for your community around you.
Your creativity answers a lot of things in your world that you have no idea where that spark is going to come from.But if you don't have time in your brain, there's not it's not going to happen.And we're all living like this.
And, but one of the things that that I really love and and let's talk about this a little bit more is, you know, you travel now quite a bit, where you did not do that before your father recently suffered with some health issues and you are able to take the time off to be with him.
And so you have seen it show up in your personal life that you have been able to do so much more, continue your personal growth and your personal journey.
And now you're going to be starting this coaching program to help other specialists, really ophthalmologists in particular, retina specialists, roll into a concierge model if they choose to do that.
And you're going to be launching that actually in January, 2025.But I want to talk about the model.It's very creative.
And you have, it's really six steps that you're going to take people through, but you're going to give them all of your templates, your support, your guidance.
They'll be able to collaborate with other people that are doing the same thing and really build out their concierge practice.Talk about your caring program.
Well, I mean, I feel like other doctors and retina specialists have reached out to me either through the conference.I've met just a handful that somehow realized I was doing this either through word of mouth.
And so they've been reaching out, interested in knowing, well, what's the basics of it?And I realize it.
That I need to get the word out there because not, not that I consider my model the end all and be all, but I think people need to be encouraged and my colleagues need to be encouraged that there is another way to practice retina practice by practice medicine, ultimately.
So I mean, it's a great example.I love the traveling not because I'm, I'm not a travel hacker.
But when I am traveling, it's because I'm usually going to some conference, I never would have had the time to before, because of the patient care responsibilities.
I mean, I would have suffered before and after because I'd be crunching all the patients that need to be right after. So that's not relaxing at all.
So you're coming back into the super busy schedule, but now I can get to go and, and I go to these conferences, like I go to a marketing conference, let's say, or I go to a finance, personal finance conference.
And you're always getting ideas, not about the topic of the conference, but because you meet people, you talk, you get new ideas.
And then even if they're starting another business, whatever that business in, it's the methodology that you're learning from. So you can get ideas from anything, right?Sure.Right.
Whether it's a gift idea, like now Christmas is coming and I'm like struggling to think, oh, what am I going to get for my dear friend?This is who doesn't need anything.Right.Right.So then you go somewhere and I'm finding out fairs, right?
Christmas markets.Right.Oh, you're going to get an idea there or something new or something.
Oh, it sounds like you have a personal life.Oh, my goodness.
Right.So there's a small business there doing something really innovative or something creative.And I'm like, that's the joy.That's the joy.And that's the excitement of when you have time to look at what's out there that's not in your little lane.
In your little bubble, right?That's right.In the bubble or lane.
Yes.Right.Yes.So I do a lot of that now.And so my course is really about showing people a path that if you make this change in your life and your practice, this is where your life is gonna be.
And it's not that your change is gonna be exactly like my change, but it's like to give the courage and a template, create a new practice so that then all those other things that I have been finding for myself will be then available to that person.
Right.Well, and you, and that is really where your heart and your passion is around this, because you've been able to find a new way, a different way forward.And, and so now you want to share that with other people.
The great thing about that is it's going to better their life, but you're also going to be the shortcut for them.
They are not going to have to go through everything you went through to try to figure out how to make this model work in your practice with the surgery, with the, the general, um,
And they'll be they'll probably be able to do it better.And isn't that the great thing.
Yes, every generation collaboration yeah of every better.Yes, the ideas that will come out of that collaborative because you're going to run a small group and the ideas that will come out of that collaboration when people start implementing.
is going to be phenomenal, which is going to continue to make your program even stronger and better because you're going to have a lot of different experiences with people doing this in their practice.So I'm excited for you to launch this.
You already did speak on a stage around it and shared what you had done, but yeah, she's really had people kind of beating down her door. Wanting to, I mean, I would, okay.
Yes.But I mean, it's like in everything, how do you get the message out there?Right.Yes.It doesn't matter how good the idea is, but you really, I mean, we are in an attention deficit society right now.Right.Right.Social media and everything.
But how do you use those same tools to try to get a message out for the good?Right.And that's what I'm excited about.I'm actually even learning all those things because social media is totally new to me. right?
I'm yes, you know, but I'm ready to embrace it too.Because always, you always have to challenge your mixed beliefs.Right?Yes.I think that makes people I've always have to be open to the other side opposing beliefs, right?
And you have to find a way together to make it all work together.Right?
So you are a brilliant woman.It's going to be amazing.I just know.
That's very kind of you to say so.And I appreciate it.
So, all right, well, how can people get ahold of you?And then by the way, we will put all of her information in the show notes, but how can people reach you?
Well, my LinkedIn profile, okay, under Vivian Kim, MD.And then of course my email, you can always email me at my email, which is drkim, D-R-K-I-M, at arcretina.com, A-R-C-R-E-T-I-N-A.com.
Right.And also, if you are inquiring about her concierge, make sure you put that in the subject line so that she will see that in the email, and it won't get buried or lost when that comes through.That's right.
We're still having a lot of emails come in, right?Yes, yes.The attention deficit economy, as you said, as I said.
Absolutely.This has been so great.Thank you for sharing.Thanks for sharing your journey and a little bit about your childhood and your family and just really appreciate that you were so open with us today.
And I can't wait for this to get out there for everyone to hear.So thank you again.
Thank you, Anne.I appreciate the questions.I appreciate the interest and you being able to share that message with me.Absolutely.You're welcome.
All right, everyone have a wonderful day.And until next time, make sure you subscribe to the show, share it because sharing is caring and go rock your business.God bless you.Bye-bye.Okay, bye. Thank you for tuning in today.
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