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Welcome to The Connected Table.We're your hosts, Melanie Young and David Ransom, your insatiably curious culinary couple.
We bring you with great joy the dynamic people who work front and center and behind the scenes in wine, food, spirits, and hospitality around the world. Ours is a global podcast that we enjoy sharing with our listeners who are also around the world.
And we're taking you to one of the highlights of 2022 for us this year, right, David?
It sure was, Melanie.We're taking you back to one of really our favorite trips and our favorite places in Italy, Mount Etna on Sicily.
I mean, you know, Etna. Europe's largest active volcano.It's almost spiritual when you go there.So much history, so much beauty, and amazing wines that are so unique to this area.Right, David?
Absolutely, Melanie.Very unique.And you know, Etna has a rich history, as does Sicily in winemaking.But the modern incarnation of Etna wines really only started about 30 or 40 years ago.
It's so true because you think about it, a lot of the families just made wines for themselves or they grew grapes and maybe sold to other people, but they made them in these very old palmetto, these stone mills, really, that were gravity fed, really
in these days, archaic, but very functional wineries, which we actually saw some dating back quite a long time.We saw ruins, but we also saw wineries that had restored these palmento, palmenti, and into quite beautiful structures.
In fact, our guest today is an example of that.In fact, the winery is called Palmetto Costanzo.Palmetto again is the old winery.Palmetto Costanzo was actually built into a restored Palmetto.
The winery itself was founded in 2010 by the Costanzo family. who wanted to go closer to the land that witnessed their growth on the slopes of Mount Etna.They restored this artisanal way of working and working with nature.
And another interesting thing about pimento costanza, which we're gonna get into with our guests, is it's in the north end of Etna, and there are many pre-phylloxera vines, something else that really struck us.
Some of the vines we saw were well over a hundred years old, right, David?
Absolutely, yeah. The volcanic soil has something to do with that as well, because phylloxera doesn't do well in porous soil, which volcanic soil is.
And it's sandier soil, so really amazing sand.When we went up the slopes of Mt.Etna, remember we sunk deep into the soils. So anyway, our guest is Valeria Agosta Costanzo, who is the proprietress of Palmetto Costanzo.
She actually, her daughter Serena works with her and we tasted her wines during Aetna days and then had some sent back to us here in the United States and they're terrific.They really embody the typicity of what makes Aetna wines so unique.
So Valeria Agosta Costanzo, welcome to The Connected Table.
Thank you very much.Hello to everybody.I'm here to tell you something about my story, about my adventure.
Well, we can't wait.Sadly, we weren't able to visit you on this last trip to Mount Etna in September, 2022, but we hope to next time when we come over.
Yeah, we were enchanted by the wines.So Valeria, you were born and raised in Catania.First of all, for our listeners who don't know where Catania is, do let us know where it is we've been that our listeners may not have.
And give us a little insight into what your family life was when you were a young girl.
Okay, I was born in Catania, as you just told, and I grew up in Catania.In particular, my family, nobody in my family, neither my direct family nor the family of my husband, as origin in agriculture, in the agriculture world.
So, etna, viticulture, was a dream in 2008-9 when we started to look around But I came from a different origin.It means that I was not engaged in agriculture, neither in agriculture nor in viticulture, and so I studied the language.
I can say something about my experience in the wine world, starting with traveling a lot with my husband and then with my children when they arrived.And so, all around the world,
I started to improve interest in wine, in viticulture, in vines, and what all of this involved could be involved in my life too.So we started looking around on Etna mainly because I'm married since 33 years.
But we started just at the beginning with my husband because it was just 24 when I got married and my husband was 27.So we started our life together all around the wine world.And so I can say that this is my Etna grew, no, I grew with Etna.
Etna was there, a montagna, as everybody, you know, in the world.But I was, I've been always very linked to the volcano, to the eruptions, because my father, when I was young,
It took me every time there was an eruption, I was there to walk also close to the eruptions.Because in that period, it was easier to reach volcano.It was easier to see lava flow.And now it's really difficult.You need to have some guide and so on.
So lava and volcano grew. were my friends, were my mates in my childhood.And so then, growing up and with my husband, we started to get always more and more involved.Then we moved to Rome with my children and more and more
Our relation with Sicily, with Catania, but with Etna mainly, was more and more strong with the passing of time.
You know, David, everyone we've interviewed from Etna, if they went away, they were drawn back because it is such a magical island.I am curious, how many languages do you speak? Excuse me.
How many how many languages do you speak?I well, English and French, but I I speak more and more English.So French, unfortunately, is not so
I'm not so confidential with French, but I'm able to maintain and to take also a discussion in viticulture with French language, but I'm not so good in French.English is better for me.
You know, like many Wintners we met on Etna when we were there, you actually left Sicily for a while and moved to Rome to work. and then came back.What drew you back to Sicily and when did you return?
So we moved to Rome in 2010 with my husband and my children.But more or less in the same time, we decided and we finally decided to buy this small vineyard, the one we started from.And so for me, it was difficult to manage
with the vineyard from Rome.So it has been a choice perhaps also for my children and to give them perhaps other opportunities.
there's really not a real important reason because then it was so easy also for us to come back to Sicily and mainly to Etna because I think that a vineyard and what vineyard in
comprehend and I think that it needs to be asked to take care of a vineyard as a child, as your children.Vines must be a follow-up, you must
you must follow day by day, so when you start buying also small vineyard, you think that it's easy, okay, you have the small vineyard, you make wine, you have a consultant, a wine consultant if you are not an oenologist, but
the passing of time you get more and more and more, how do you say, not linked but you feel the necessity to stay there day by day and not just one day per week or one week per month or just in the main
a period the vineyard needs your presence or the harvest or some vinification moment or I don't know.So this gave us the They invite you to come back and for me it was important mainly to stay close to the vineyard, close to Etna.
We live in Catania but in reality we live between Catania and Etna because we have also a small house in Etna where we spend a lot of time. in particular during the important period of the harvest.
So, my husband come with me, but every day I am on Etna and every weekend during holidays.So, very, very, very often, but I can say always I live on Etna, I stay on Etna.
Well, we all know in the wine business that the vines need tending year round, that every season brings another responsibility in order to care for them.And so we totally understand that.
So you started with a vineyard and you now I believe have 18 hectares. as I understand.Yes.Palmetto-Costanza is located, and this is important, in the northern tip of Aetna, which we visited.It was our first visit to Aetna, so we learned a lot.
We learned that the terroir, obviously, is very different in the four different subzones of Aetna, and then by Contrada.
I think this is a good time to explain to our listeners the zones and what makes the northern tip of Etna distinct and what grows well there.
And then you're also in the Contrada Santo Spirito, which is, I think it's like, if you could think about a neighborhood, I always say, think of Etna as a giant, like Manhattan. and then a Contrada would be one of the villages, like the East Village.
Why don't you explain it?That was my explanation to people.Why don't you tell us how it distinguishes what you produce?
Okay, so Palmetto Costanzo is on the northern slopes of Mount Etna in one of the DOC areas.The DOC on Etna is like a sea which runs around the top of the volcano and is divided into three main versions.There's the northern, which is where we are,
southeast and southwest.The DOC on Etna is one of the largest in Italy because it starts at 400 meters and ends at 1,000 meters, depending on the person.On the northern slopes, where we are, it ends at 800 meters.
Our vineyard is from 6 up to 800 meters. on the south-east versant and south-west versant, the DLC ends at 1,000 meters.
But not only this is the difference, because Aetna is considered the island in the island, an island in the island, because of the particular terroir for what we intend with the meaning of terroir.
So the microclimate, the altitude, the rain, and the exposure.And so each version is totally different.And in each version, during a day, The fourth season can occur during an all day, just one day.
And the difference between the versant are done mainly from the altitude, of course, the ends of the Ducy, and the rain.So the southeast versant is more raining, The northern Versant, I can say, is more equilibrate, perhaps.
And then the southwest is really less in rain.And we have also a small portion on the southern west Versant, Santa Maria di Riccodia, where we produce just white wine, because that area is particular for white wine.
is highest in altitude, the soil is more sand, not skeletal, but more sand, and the rain occurs really, really less compared to the north and to the south, where it's worse.We are on another slope, so between 600 up to 800 meters.
When we started, we bought just this small portion where the main quarter is, where the estate is, with the two areas of production.The old one, which is the old Palamento, we restored, and the new production area we completed in 2019.
And so we started from five actors, then year by year, we reached 12 actors in the Contrada Santo Spirito.So we are in Contrada Santo Spirito and the main portion of actors are in Contrada Santo Spirito.
Then we have small parcels always in Castiglione di Sicilia area, Zottorino, Oto, Bragasegge and Feudo di Mezzo, and the other one which is Contrada Cavaliere on the southern west versant.
Each contrada, as you told before, is different from the other for different reasons, but the most important probably I can say of course exposure, the altitude, but all contrada are different because
The different eruptions which occurred during the year, the 100 years in the past, they characterized the soil depending on what lava flow found during the flowing. So each Contrada is different for this reason, because the soil is different.
But I started studying the soil, the Contrada, the terraces.Our vineyard in Contrada Santo Spirito, where we have the estate, is characterized mainly from terraces, and also from an eruption of 1879.
And the soil in the same Contrada, I can say that in our Contrada happens what we can say happened in the different Contrada.
So the difference you have between one Contrada to the others of Contrada Santo Spirito, Feudo di Mezzo, Guardiola, San Lorenzo, and so on, it occurs also in the same Contrada.
In the same area, with the small differences of meters and terraces, we have soil totally different, more skeletal, more fertile and more fat soil with more organic elements.
And the wines, in particular, we produce a Contrada Santo Spirito Red, because on Etna only the crew can take the name of the area of production.And we produce a Contrada Santo Spirito Red.But studying the Contrada, studying the soil,
the different soils, terraces by terraces, we discovered and we produced, we did this project of producing from the same Contrada, three different wines of Contrada.
So there are three Contrada wines, red, which have the name of the three parcels of the map of the area.And they are three different wines completely, because one is closest to the It's closer to the lava flow.It's all skeletal soil.
One is more fertile because it is
This wine is produced by the central part of the vineyard with all the terraces, and the other, the 464 wine, is close to the gate, where the soil is more fat, is rich in organic elements, and also the wine is more, I want to say rounded, but is more bodied compared to the
the wine produced from the area close to the lava soil, because there is a skeletal soil.But of course, it's always an etna wine.So sapidity and minerality, sapidity, even if it's a red wine, it's always present.
Minerality, sapidity, and verticality is always present, even if it's a more rounded red wine.
When we were in Aetna days, one of the early days there, we received an amazing overview from scientists on the geography of Aetna and the subzones and the history of lava flows.And it really is fascinating.
Everyone who lives in Aetna always lives with the potential shadow of another eruption.In fact, somebody said while we were there, and we were there in September, It could be happening next month, you know, you always live with that.
But the fact that with each lava flow over time, it changes the soils.Organic compositions is fascinating because it because then you have to adjust accordingly as you move forward with the vines.Right.Yeah. So interesting.
We mentioned in the introduction that you also have a number of prephyloxera ungrafted vines.Talk to us about that and how many and talk to us about the wines from those vines, which we know are limited in production.
Yes, as you know, Etna is one of the viticulture terroirs which was not affected by the aphid of Philostera because of the altitude and because of the sand, lava sand.
So Etna, in general, is one of the land, the viticulture area, which was so lucky where with viticulture was not destroyed.So we cultivate only our top varietals, so Nerello Mascalese and Caricante.
So the two blend in the vineyard, Mascalese and Capuccio for the reds, Caricante and Cataratto for the white.So the vineyard is really, really, really old.Even if we buy some new land, which were not planted, we continue planting.
So we have vines free of roots, uncrafted, and pre-phylloxera vines.A parcel in particular, which is the oldest, from this parcel we produce one phylloxera wine, just 1,500 bottles more or less.And we are trying to continue the genetic
part of the vines planting when we have to plant the new vine from the old Prephylloxera vines to respect the genetic origin of the vines.So we're going to plant free of root.
and because I think that the tetanus having this big, how can you say, this big jewel, I can say, of having autochthonous varietals, these autochthonous varietals must be respected
also trying to plant themselves free of roots to maintain the same genetic origin and characteristics.And yes, philosophers Our cultivation is called in quincunx.
It means that the vines are planted one meter point one, more or less one from the other.And so all the works are done by hand and in the vineyard, so without machinery.
And in particular, the phylloxera parcel is a need to be respected using less, less, less the intervention of man in the works in the vineyard.
Such incredible detail and seeing these.So David, you and I were on, we went to Aetna together, but then they had different itineraries.So they split David and I up, which was interesting, which was beneficial.And we saw different producers.
I know I went to one producer and I saw these beautiful Prefolox ravines, and they're quite stunning.They're almost like works of art. and so unique to very specific areas of Europe because so much of Europe was devastated.
The vines were devastated by phylloxera in the late 19th century.
Yet there are pockets all over Europe and the world that still have prephylloxera vines. and in Spain and France and Sardinia and Sicily, of course, and various other areas of the world, too.But they're small pockets.
So those are really the only places that you get the true identity of the grape that hasn't been muddled in a way.
Remember, we saw some in the Rhone.It was incredible.
But I always find that fascinating.
You were talking before about the lava flow, but in these days we have interruptions. Really?Really?Yeah.
Oh, oh, oh.Well, they said late September, but maybe, you know, it's interesting.
You know, it was really daunting, Valeria, as we were, the day we went up the mountain, it was too windy to do the funicula, so we did a bus, and we went over to this beautiful crater, and we saw some pieces of ice.
As we descended, our bus descended down the slope, David pointed out a structure that had clearly been overcome by lava flow.
You see these destroyed structures that are semi-buried in the soil or the sand now and it reminds you of the power of this volcano and that anyone who has any kind of life on Anna, it could change in a moment.
Absolutely.A living volcano, but you can see also on the northern version where we are, in particular also my eruption, the one which flows close to my vineyard, there is a small tower, le torrette.
Le torrette are small, small, small tower called torrette, which were destroyed by the different eruptions.And so also now you can see a small building in the vineyard, which were destroyed in the past from lava eruptions.
That's so wild, right? Let's talk about some of your wines.You have a wine called Prefilosera.You mentioned it.It's limited edition.We were able to taste a few.First, we haven't talked about the Caracante, which was a beautiful white.
And Caturato.So let's talk about what you make in the southern part, right?
No, no, I have also a Contrada Santo Spirito White, first vintage of 2020.But we have a Bianco di Sei, which is our first white wine we produced in 2012, was the first vintage.And then the Contrada Cavaliere on the other version.
I think that Caricante, well, perhaps Etna was known for the red
wine, but I think, but not only me, but we all on Aetna, we think that Caricante, a white wine, is going to be appreciated, okay, but we are discovering, I am discovering Caricante very good potentiality also in aging, because our classical wine, white, okay, it goes on the market after
for months of steel, but the superior ones, so the Bianco di Sei and the two Contrada, Contrada Cavaliere White and Contrada Santo Spirito White, go out in the market after two years from the harvest, because we think that aging in stainless steel tanks
And aging in bottle is really, really, really important for the wine and Caricante has good potentiality, even if the first Caricante known in the world wine was, is the the Caricante il Bianco Superiore from southern-east Bersan.
But not only, because we on the northern slopes produce very good white wine too.Not me, Palmetto Costanzo.My friends produce it in Etna.We all produce different white wine depending on the Bersan, depending on the Contrada.
But Caricante has a beautiful and good potentiality of aging.
And I love the white on Etna because, perhaps because me too, I'm discovering that white is as beautiful, gives you beautiful emotion, the sapidity, the verticality, the crispy characteristics of the white wine on Etna are really stunning, I say.
If I can say stunning in English for a wine.
And I'm also fascinated by how well these white wines on Etna age.
Yes, yes.We're fascinated by white wines that age well.And they also go really well with the cuisine of the region.And really quite beautiful.So for anyone who's not had, Caracante is indigenous to Etna.
Now we've been to, Conurato you can get in other parts of Sicily.Yes, it's beautiful. Yes, I just wanted to underscore that.
Yes.In fact, the caricante is the main varietal a white wine on Etna must have to be considered DLC.The minimum of percentage of caricante must be the 60% for a white to be DLC.
And the rest, in my case, well, we have wine with mostly more caricante percent, 80-90%.And the rest of the varietal can be also another varietal, but not aromatic one, but in the old vineyard.
All of us, we have Caricante and Cataratto, even if there are a lot of producers who wanted to start a new project planting international varietal.At the moment, I say because
My daughter, as you told before, is going to reach me because in this moment she is completing university.She's in Montpellier, the last year of university, and then she will be back on Etna.
But she's graduated in agriculture in the third, the three first year in agriculture, and the other two in viticulture in in, now in Montpellier.She is now in Montpellier, doing her last year, attending her last year.
I'm curious, you mentioned international varieties.Is she considering or, you know, are there other international varieties that you would, you could cultivate or would consider that would do well?
Yes, we can cultivate, of course.There are a lot of producers who planted the Pinot or Merlot, But in this case, the wine cannot be a D.O.C., of course.It can be D.O.C.
for the red if it has the 80% of Nerello Mascalese and minimum 60% of Caricante for the white.All the other varietals, of course, will not be a D.O.C.wine.But it's a philosophy.
Everybody has a different philosophy, and I respect the philosophy of everybody.Each of us has different... different ideas, different credo, different view of their own estate and the wine, its own estate or wine.
When we were visiting, we saw there was a lot of ancient winemaking equipment.You obviously restored a pimento, but you obviously also have a modern winemaking facility.
At what point did you, when you decided to start your winery and build your winery, at what point did you want to make sure that you preserved the old ways of making wine as well to make sure that that Palmetto moved forward into the future?
Okay, when we bought the first small part of more or less five hectares in Contrada Santo Spirito, we found in the land these old palmento, these two buildings which is the old palmento, because the old owner used to sell the grape, there wasn't an estate in that area, so we started managing with the terraces because we found the alberello
on concrete posts.So we moved the concrete posts with the chestnut posts to give the alberello its traditional history in cultivation.
And the old Palmento, we decided to start this adventure also for the Palmento, to restore Palmento, because we are also in the National Park of Etna and and we had to follow strict rules to restoring palmetto.
So we produce in Sacramento with modern technology, so wood, and we have a storage wood for the tronchoconics barrels for the fermentation area, and then also barrels in the
in the cellar downstairs, and the oolong from Taranso in French oak, and then all the stainless steel for the white, and also for the spumante, because we produced a metodo classico, first vintage 2018, but non-milesimato, so with the adding of the same old wine.
And so we restored Palmetto, and trying to maintain, because we tried to build, we built it to follow the gravity system of viticulture.Then we have the modern cantina, which is, of course, more regular and it's
it's easier to work inside the new modern cantina compared to Palmetto.But it's really beautiful to do the harvest inside Palmetto because everything is fascinating because we have to move in a particular way.
You don't have so many opportunities to do what you want with easy movement.But it's really fascinating.
It really is fascinating and I just was so taken by. the history of this area.And so the Alborello, you mentioned it, but I just want to underscore, this is a very historic way of vineyard cultivation using chestnut posts.
It's very unique to- And sometimes no posts at all.Or no posts at all.And it's quite striking and very unique to Etna.Are you working with, who is your winemaker and are you working with a consulting winemaker?
Yes, we have a consultant, he is Nicola Centonce, he is from Marsala. Sicily, on the western part of Sicily.He's a young boy, 47-48, and he's with us for a long time.And then we have also a cantiniere inside, two cantiniere inside,
But we have this, Nicola is really a beautiful person, I can say, at first because he stays with us very often.So he comes every week for three days per week.
He helped me to study and to understand because I have not studied neither in agriculture nor in viticulture.My daughter would be plenty of this information and notion of study and knowledge.And so I learned with him.
And I did with him small steps to grow and to understand also some aspects which can be not confidential for me, but I am very happy of his work with us.
Well, that's good, because it's always good to have a good team in place as you grow and develop.You know, a lot of our listeners may be listening and thinking, wow, I got to go visit.I want to plan a visit.
As someone who has come back to Aetna, is now living there, what would you say are some highlights that you would recommend if someone is planning to come to the area?
where to stay or what to visit?I didn't understand where to stay.
To visit.This highlights that obviously coming to your winery, but if you were planning a visit to Etna, what are some places you would recommend?
I think that we can start from Etna.We must, you have, or they, or them, have to start.It's a must visiting Etna with the volcano, Etna, the volcano area.But all the,
all the countries around Etna, the viticulture area, the Alcantara area, apart from Taormina, but all the areas around Etna, to do excursions on the lava, to do running, to do also cycling on Vulcano, skiing, if you can, during a skiing period.
And then you have the Alcantara River, where you can walk in the river.It's better in summer because the water is really, really, really cold.And if you have the boots, but it's really cold.Then the area of Taormina.
But from Etna, Etna can be considered a starting a starting point to enlarge like a piovra, like an octopus all around and visit and having different aspects of history, agriculture, food.
food is important, food is the first with wine and Taormina, but also not so far, not so close to Etna, Ortigia, Siracusa, so starting I think that Etna must be considered a starting point of a tour, of a visit, of a trip.
And from Etna coming back probably to every day, every night on Etna area, but coming from and starting from Etna Going all around, you have hundreds of possibilities to spend not only one day, two days, three days, one week, also one month.
You have so many things to do, starting from also Pelloritania Nebrodi, the mountain chain.You could see in front of my winery, there is a lot to visit.A lot, a lot, a lot of things.And then you can go also to swim if it's summer.
to do a trip in a boat, a lot of things.
Lots of things.And you know, one of the things I love about Etna is that in wine production, there's a lot of small producers.
Yeah, very small producers, family run, a lot of young producers.As we said, Etna's got a long history
as a sense of place in Sicily, but it's got a young history, a long history in history as a place, but a young history as a modern wine production area.
So still for many, a discovery, fortunately, a number of the wine, many of the wines are available in the United States.In fact, who is your importer, Valeria?
In New York, I have Jacopo Di Teodoro, artisanal seller for New York, Vermont, New Jersey, the area of Long Island.Then we have Mucci, and then I have different importers in Virginia, Siema, different in other regions, states.
And then we have also Marco De Grazia, MDG selection, which help us in other country, but mainly it is Jacopo di Teodoro in New York at the moment.
So your wines, Palmetto Costanzo wines, are well distributed basically in the United States, which is wonderful.You know, we can't wait to go back.We hope we're invited back to Etna days.
I think one of our bucket list trips now has to be ski to sea in Etna.
So, which means don't be afraid to go to Etna in the wintertime.
I think it'd be great to go to Etna in the wintertime.
Winter, summer, spring, autumn.Each season has a particularity, also for viticulture, as you can imagine, and you know, of course.
Yeah.Well, Valeria, we have so enjoyed speaking with you.Thank you for joining us from Italy on The Connected Table.
For our listeners who'd like more information, the website is palmentacostanzo.com, and we appreciate your time, and we can't wait to come back and pay you a visit.
Thank you very much.Looking forward to receiving you, having you on Aetna, and I wish you best Christmas, holidays, and a new year.
Thank you so much, Valeria.
And thank you to you and thank you to all our listeners who follow us regularly on The Connected Table.
We enjoy bringing you the stories of the dynamic people who are front and center, behind the scenes in wine, food, spirits, and hospitality as we travel the world and hope to do more of.And as always, our message is stay insatiably curious.
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