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This month is all about gratitude, and I'm grateful for a lot of things, Erlon, including you.
Oh, right back at you, Nodge.
And you know what?There's a person we don't often remember to thank, ourselves.
Yep, like buy ourselves some flowers or something.When's the last time you did that?
Exactly.You know, in a way, that's what therapy is.It's doing something nice just for you.BetterHelp empowers you to be the best version of yourself.
Yeah, therapy isn't only for people who experience major trauma.It's helpful for all of us.And BetterHelp is entirely online, convenient, and flexible.
Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist.
Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp.
Visit betterhelp.com slash EarHustle today to get 10% off your first month.
That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash EarHustle.
Good evening, everybody.I'm Nate Query from the Decemberists.The following episode of Ear Hustle contains language and content that may not be appropriate for all listeners.Discretion is advised.
Some people shouldn't be allowed to walk around in society.No matter how old they get, they're gonna always be looking for somebody to victimize.So maybe the death penalty is not the answer, but a cage is definitely the answer.
So you do think there's people that need to be separated from society?
Locked away. This is Shaka.He spent over 40 years on death row at San Quentin.
How did you feel being housed with people that you had those thoughts about?I know you said you lived amongst that for 40 years.
Which is where the books come in.Because, you know, I spent my time trying to elevate my state of mind instead of worried about the people that I live next door to.
You know, in a place like death row, where life is like confined and diminished, but also chaotic, and like people never leave their cells, and I can imagine living like that, books are absolutely essential.
I mean, they take you out of the present moment, and I know it's corny, they really let you travel out of your present experience.
Not just death row, but just regular prison too, you know?Books have always been a big part of prison life, because before they had the TVs, the radios, and the tablets, books were all you had.
And even now, there are a lot of books in prison.I mean, just go out to the yard and ask people what they're reading.
When I hit Wasco, it was the first time I read the Game of Thrones series, all five books in a week.
Right now, I'm reading about institutional incarceration.
I am big into fantasy and sci-fis.
Fantasy is my thing.I am stuck on the J.L.Furyk.That's a really good series that I just can't put down.Are you reading a book right now?
I am.And what is it?The Body Keeps Score.Just talking about the stuff that happens to us, like our body absorbs that negative energy, trauma and stuff like that.
Do you have any guilty pleasure reads? It's kind of a weird thing, but I love to read research journals.Yeah, right?A lot of people are like, why?Yes.
What book are you reading right now?I am reading James Patterson.
He's very popular.Why is he so popular?Do you think?
Because he writes good books.
Today on the show, the subject our listeners always ask us about, be it through letters, postcards, social media, people are always asking us about this.
I'm Nigel Poor.And this is Ear Hustle from PRX's Radiotopia.
So back to Shaka, who spent more than 40 years on death row.
One day he was in his cell, and he heard these guys a couple cells down talking about a book.A book about African history.
One told me that I could get this book from the library, so he gave me the name of this book.I don't remember offhand.I put in a request to the library, but
At that time, when you put in for a book and they didn't have the particular book that you wanted, they would send you substitutes.And they sent these three books. The Bitch.That was the first book I read.The Bitch?Yes.
I don't know that book.What's that about?
It's pimps, drugs, and the hustle.I don't like to say that.
What's the client's name in the book?
I found myself up at two o'clock in the morning reading this book.
Women positively adored Nicol Constantine, and he, in his turn, was certainly not averse to them.From a cocktail waitress to a princess, he treated them all the same. Flowers, always red roses.Champagne, always Cristal.
Presents, small gold charms from Tiffany in New York, or if they lasted more than a few weeks, little diamond trinkets from Cartier.
So that's the first book, The Bitch.The second, New Dimension in African History.
Africa cannot be spoken of in terms of Adam and Eve, because long before they had an Adam and Eve, there was an Africa and African people, with concepts that predated Abraham.
All of the pyramids of Africa, not only those in Egypt, but those in Sudan and the two in northern Ethiopia, were built thousands of years before there was an Adam and Eve mentioned anywhere on the planet.
New Dimension and African History helped me in my journey and search for my religious beliefs.It just captivated my attention.The third one was Alibaba and the Forty Thieves.
Pushing through the shrubs, he spotted the door which was hidden behind them.And going up to it, he said, Open Sesame! Immediately the door opened wide.
He had expected to see a place of darkness and gloom and was surprised to find a vast and spacious man-made chamber full of light with a high vaulted ceiling into which daylight poured through an opening in the top of the rock.
There he saw great quantities of foodstuffs and bales of rich merchandise all piled up.
There were silks and brocades, priceless carpets, and above all, gold and coins in heaps or heaped up in sacks or in large leather bags that were piled one on top of the other.
The funny thing about that is that I live next door to the shower, right? and there was two showers, and between the two showers, they had a gate, and they would lock this gate every night.One night, 11.30, they do a security check.
The officer would come and try to open this gate, and he couldn't open. So the next night I'm laying there and I'm thinking to myself, it's like 11.30 and I'm normally trying to sleep, so he making too much noise.
So as he opening the gate, I said, open sesame.And the damn gate opened.It opened.And so every night I found myself saying, open sesame. And it would open?And it would open.So one night I said, I'm not going to say nothing.
The officer, he was a rookie, right?He said, 88.He didn't know my name.He said, 88, can we get a little assistance here?I said, open sesame in the damn lot.
What did he call you?Was that your cell number?
Yeah, in cell 88.He didn't know my name.Cell 88.
Let me ask you this, out of those three books, which book did you read first?
The B. And I tell you, this book was the first book ever that I read from cover to cover.
So, do you read a lot of books here?
I do read a lot of books.
What are you reading currently?
To be honest, I read black cultural books, black urban books.I read a lot of urban books.Just because it takes my mind out of prison.I'm a new lifer, so it's just sitting in my soul that I am a lifer.
So that's what I do to stay out of prison in my mind.
This is Miss Guidry, and just so you know, her voice sounds like that because she had a tracheostomy. We met her in a day room at the California Institution for Women in Chino, California.
I have at least 80 books that I've read in, I want to say, three years.
Yeah.Do you hold on to them?
I do.I read them over.When they're good, I'll read them again.Because you always miss something.It's like a movie.You always miss something.So when you go back, you're like, oh, I didn't remember that.
And you have all your books in there?
Yes.Can you show us your library?Yes.Okay, we're going to follow you.
We're following our new friend to her room so we can see her library of books.
Hey, Earline, do you remember what Ms.Guitry's room looked like?
Yes, for some reason, I just remember all white.
Yeah, it was because it was super orderly and peaceful.
And on her walls, she had pasted all these little handmade paper butterflies.Colorful.Very colorful.
When you walk in here, it's very clean and you have a beautiful Afghan on your bed that's very peaceful.Your book is laid on the pillow like it's set up for you to come and read it.
But then everywhere there are butterflies.I was trying to count them.There's at least 22 butterflies in here that are sparkly and pink and purple and gold.And they just feel very uplifting.And they're all moving up.
Yeah, they're all moving up, so that seems very intentional.
This is where my peace is.You know, this is where, this is my safe haven.
Oh my goodness, she's pulling her books out.
Ms.Kidry reached down under her bed and pulled out a box of books.
And it was one of those plastic bins, but the top couldn't stay on it because it was so overflowing with books.This was her lending library for other incarcerated women.
There's a lot of books that I loan to the kids.They come to me, and they be like, Miss Guidry, do you have books?And I say, sure.And they go through this box, and they find they calling right here.This is where they come.
Instead of going to the library, they come to me.
And you lend them and they bring them back?
And I'm just curious, do you have any discussions about the book before they take them?
So I do.So they be like, Ms.Kendry, which book is going to keep me turning the page?And I'll be like, oh, you can read this, The Husband's Wife, or here's Black Friday.Well, this right here is a two-part book.
And it's about a bride that's like a pit bull.She's a gangster.So when I give them a little, you know, a little bit, they're like, OK, I'll read that.Or someone say, you know what?Let's try something else.So they have options.
Pretty much all of the books in her lending library are urban fiction books.
The books about the ghettos, the pimps, the hustlers, the shoot-em-up-bang-bang, the hood life.
She makes those books sound fun like a little guilty pleasure read I think it is, you know I think a lot of people love to read things that they can identify with and You know hood books in prison
I ain't gonna lie, that's all I seen being passed around.Like it wasn't Socrates or whoever.It was literally death, sex, violence.
Do you remember the first book you read when you came to prison?The first book I read was... It was a hood book.
It's called Ethic.Ethic books.Can you tell us anything you remember about it?Just hustling and normal stuff on the streets.Okay.
How do the hood books make you feel?
It made me feel like I'm back at home.That's why I had to put it down.Because it made me feel like I'm too much at home.Like I want to be out there, you know?
So I had to put them down.
Well, I mean, we live it damn near every day.You know, they just amp it up times 10 or 20, you know, but we live it every day, all of us, one way or another.I mean, we've experienced it.
Yeah, I definitely felt that way.I couldn't do it.
I think I probably read one or two in my life.
You know, maybe if it was an autobiography, yeah, but not just an urban novel, no.
I used to read a ton of urban novels.I think it's the best book that you could probably read.It's a book called Dutch.Now, the thing that interests me most is learning more about the Bible.
Would you ever sneak back and read an urban fiction just for fun?
No, because it's ridiculous now.Like, this guy wants to be a drug kingpin.And if you've watched Scarface, you've read every hood book that you can read.So, no.
So back in Miss Guidry's cell, we asked her to pick out a book that you and I might like.
Okay, so you don't know either of us, but could you pick a book that you would suggest for me and for Erlon and tell us why, what we would like about it?
Okay, so I'm gonna go here.Nikki Turner is a very good artist.
The reason why I think this would be a good, like your first book, is because it never gets boring, and she ends up being a hustler's wife, but she's stuck by him, and so he end up going to jail, and she's stuck by him, and she went to school to be a lawyer so that she can learn the laws and get him out.
So this is What a real hustler's wife do, she gonna go for back for a man.She gonna go all the way, do it all.
So in that book, honey ain't gone when the money gone?
Honey ain't gone when the money gone.She sticks around.She sticks around.
Yarny sat stunned on the cold mahogany courtroom bench.She couldn't believe the verdict of guilty. The high-profile court case of her notorious kingpin boyfriend, Dez, ended in the worst possible outcome.
After seeing the expression of defeat and frustration on Dez's face, Yarny broke down in tears as numbness ran through her entire body.Her mind raced frantically as she reflected on what seemed like her life crumbling in front of her eyes.
Urban novels are relatable to me.I'm gonna be honest with you, the lifestyle is all I know.The things we do to survive without even thinking consciously that there's another way to maintain the money, the finances, the houses, the cars, all that.
When you're born with it, you don't have the insight to go do something different, because it's all you know, it's always been around you.And that lifestyle inevitably leads you to where there are three places.
There's death, there's institutions, and there's mental institutions, because it'll drive you crazy.
So when are you going to write your hood book?
I don't want to.I don't want to relive it.Got you.You understand?I just don't.I just want to find some new chapter in my life and do something and talk about something and be something I never.
OK, then I got to push you on this.You don't want to write your own because you don't want to relive it.Why do you keep reading those books?It's just entertaining.
It was fun.I mean, it was hard and it was cold blooded and it was rough, but it was fun. Even in the book, eventually they clean up or they die.It's just, that's how it is.
Either you're gonna get your life together and live normal, try to, or you're gonna continue to use and somebody gonna kill you, you're gonna die, or you're gonna go crazy, or you're gonna be in jail.
They want you to be at your door Let me out!Let me out!So they can sit there and laugh at you.No, I'm going to sit here and we're going to both be petty because I'm not going to ask you for nothing.I'm going to sit here and I'm going to read a book.
This is Tommy.He's incarcerated at the Crossroads Juvenile Center in Brooklyn.
We've been spending a lot of time there recently because we're working on a long-term project that listeners will hear eventually.
Tommy was telling us about this one time when he'd been getting in trouble and had to stay in this room for a long time with very little to do.
And just to warn people, sometimes Tommy's hard to understand.Erlon, I mean, teenagers, right?
It's a real challenge with this project.
Yeah, you really got to lean in with these kids.Anyway, we were wondering, what was it like for Tommy to be stuck in this room with nothing to do?
I mean, it could have been worse.If I didn't have books and other dumb shit, it could have been worse.But I had a lot of stuff to keep myself occupied.Word searches, a lot of lyrics so I could just sing songs as if I'm on the radio.
Just hear it so I could hear it in my head.
Tommy's stuck in there.He's got his word searches going.He's trying to recite every lyric that he can remember to a song.But he also has this series of books.
Yes, a series called War by T. Stiles.
And I believe T. Stiles is known as the urban fiction empress.
It's a very, very weird, weird book.
two friends they grew up right one friend was the son of a crack lord the other friend he didn't have nothing his pops working at a restaurant barely making ends meet they don't got nothing they've been friends since young they've been growing up but he's come home from school with his friend he's like what the hell is she looking at that she's filming herself he sees his his friend's son's father cleaning his car just clean his car he got all his chains on cigars
Oh, my God, Erlon.I know we said teenagers are a challenge.I mean, a lot of times their answers are like one word.But when we asked Tommy to describe this book.
The floodgates open.When they father died, everything went downhill for them.They sleep in the bottom of basements.They don't got no clothes.They haven't took no shower.One of them got mad fat.
Fuck, he said, as he always did the moment he got home and was reminded about how poorly he lived. Rob bases It Takes Two, blasted from a small radio by the window, which let him know that someone was home.
Before walking further inside, he stood at the door and took in the terror of his life.The refrigerator was empty.The TV was broken.People took him as a joke in the neighborhood.
At the end of the day, he wanted more and didn't see a way to make it happen without knocking somebody over their head.Something had to give, and it had to give soon.
Okay, we're going to come back to Tommy a little later.Yeah, I think he's going to be talking about that book for a while.In the meantime, there's another book that we've been hearing about in prison.
Christian sets me on my feet on the wooden floor.I don't have time to examine my surroundings.My eyes can't leave him.I'm mesmerized, watching him like one would watch a rare and dangerous predator waiting for him to strike.
His breathing is harsh, but then he's just carried me across the lawn and up a flight of stairs. Gray eyes blaze with anger, need, and pure unadulterated lust.Holy shit.I could spontaneously combust from his look alone.
Do you have any guilty pleasure reads?
I love everything that a drunken housewife would read.
Like did you read Fifty Shades of Grey?
No, I never read that because it seemed really cheesy.I never read it either.Jamie, come have a seat.Hey Jamie, can I ask you some questions?
Do you have any guilty pleasure reads?Like you would put something over the cover so no one sees you're reading it?
No, I have no shame in what books I read.I could be reading 50 Shades of Grey and I will not be ashamed.
We're just talking about 50 Shades of Grey.Have you read it?
Neither Tony nor I have read it.Should we read it?
What?You guys haven't read it?Not like the movie.It's very good.It's a good book to read.
Tony, I think we're missing out. Have you read Fifty Shades of Grey?
Oh yeah, I read all three of them.I read them in three days.It's more than what everyone is presenting.There's a backstory and it's a love story.I think it's good.I think it's good.
Erlon, have you ever read Fifty Shades of Grey?
No, I never read it, but I did watch the movie.How's the movie?The movie was very, uh, very sexual, very provocative.Interesting.
What about you, Nigel?I did read it for this episode.You know, each of us were assigned a book to read and I got Fifty Shades.
I had it by my desk and my son was visiting.He picked it up.He's like, are you reading this book?I was like, yep, for work.
He probably raised his eyebrows at you.
Nice.All right.So should we check in on Tommy?
I bet Tommy is still reciting that book.
Five years later passed.The girl is still with him because she's still with him because she realized that he really loved her.She was trying to sound free. Five years now, they in the mansion now.They big time now.They got the drugs flowing.
Everybody, everybody eating in the mansion.We're gonna take a quick break.When we get back, Tommy will still be at it.No doubt.So now one day, they set up a meeting.They play basketball with each other.They squash all beef.
He said, let me, just tell me where my father's at and I'm gonna tell you where your girlfriend's at.
Hey, listeners, Amy and Bruce here from the Ear Hustle team with some pretty cool Radiotopia news.
That's right.For over 15 years, our friend and fellow Radiotopian, Nate DiMaio, has been telling incredible stories about the past on his podcast, The Memory Palace, which is such a beautiful thing.I listened from the beginning.
It's just like perfect gems of stories.They're short, they're amazingly well-written, and they're like surprising, true moments that you would never believe happened.
I also have been listening to this show since the beginning, and it was one of the first shows that had such a strong voice to it.
It was unlike anything else.
And now, Nate is releasing his first book.It's called The Memory Palace, True Short Stories of the Past.
The book collects beloved stories from the show, news stories, photographs, and gorgeous illustrations.It's available for presale now, wherever you buy your books, or you can find it at radiotopia.fm.
With the holidays coming up, this is a perfect gift.It's called The Memory Palace, true short stories of the past.Hey, congratulations, Nate.
I'm going to go get my copy right now.
Listeners, do you want even more Ear Hustle?
And even fewer ads like zero, zilch, nothing, nada?If so, subscribe to Ear Hustle Plus.Ear Hustle Plus subscribers get access to ad-free episodes and bonus episodes.
Our Ear Hustle Plus episodes are really fun.Subscribers can find out what's happening with people they've heard on previous episodes, and they can also send in questions for us to answer.
And me and Nigel get to sit here and chop it up with our producer Bruce and just talk about whatever.
If you want to hear more of that, subscribe to Ear Hustle Plus at EarHustleSQ.com slash plus, or directly in Apple Podcasts.
And thanks for supporting the show.We appreciate y'all. and send in some provocative questions.
Halfway along the road of this our life, I woke to find myself in a wood so dark that straight and honest ways were gone and light was lost.Oh, how hard to tell the harsh horror of that wild and brutal forest.
The very thought brings back a fear so stark that bitter death itself seems not much worse.But let me tell the rest of what I met with, so the good I found is well and truly rehearsed.
We are on a quest, a Dante quest.Okay, so we are in one of the housing units and I think we're going to go left up here to find the yard.I think the yard is this way.Oh, okay.
So this was at CIW.We were trying to find a woman named Chelsea who was apparently a fan of Dante's Divine Comedy.
Right.And we had heard that from her bunkie.And when we finally found Chelsea, she was in the middle of working out.
What were you working out to?
I was working out to Friday Night Club Mix.
Do you mind talking for a few minutes or is it too irritating?
Oh, no, I'm fine.Yeah, no, it's fine.I'll talk.
Okay, so your bunkie told us that you're reading Dante.
Yes.I'm reading The Divine Comedy by Dante.It's a little fantastical, like, you know, they're eating each other and all the crazy, crazy things that Dark would and all that.I mean, like, it's, it's really a work of art, that book.Is it hard to read?
Kind of.My family is great.They sent me the three books and then they also sent me like a book with a synopsis and detailed notes.So I'm kind of like working my way through it.
It is through me you come to the city of sorrow.It is through me you wrack eternal sadness. It is through me you join the forever lost.Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
Do you think that you've ever experienced hell?
Absolutely, yeah.I was a drug addict for a really long time, and I experienced my own type of slavery, my own type of hell through that experience. I think that hell is reserved for people who don't want to change.
They stay in hell because they don't want to change.Purgatory is a place for people who want to change and go to heaven.I think this existence that we have on this plane is kind of like our purgatory.
As soon as you come to your come to God moment, you kind of like have to atone for the things that you've done.And I relate to that being in prison.It kind of is like my purgatory for what I've done.
And so I'm kind of like atoning for that, working on myself, making myself a better person, and then hopefully I'll reach the Paradiso.
Those holiest of waters returned me to life, recovered like new trees which quickly grow new branches and new leaves.I'd been purified, ready to rise where sanctified souls can go.
Do you think that hell and heaven literally exist?
That's a tough one.I mean, I've never been there.I really don't know.In a non-literal sense, you can experience heaven when you eat a cheesecake and you haven't had one in like five years, you know?
I imagine that's going to be my heaven when I get out of here, you know?
Hey, this is Claudia calling from the Utah State Correctional Facility.You wanted to know some of our top requested books.Well, I'm going to start with Terry Goodkind, but the series is Sort of Truth, so any book in that series.
Then we have Robert Jordan's Will of Time, any book in that series.The third is Brandon Sanderson with the Mistborn series. Then Swan Song by Robert McCammon, and of course, the Bible.Thank you, and have a great day.Bye.
Hello.My name is Deb Kyle.I work for the Washington State Library at Twin Rivers Correctional Unit, and some of our most requested books are The Merriam-Webster Dictionary, Bleach by Taito Kubo, The Dungeon Master's Guide by James Wyatt,
How to Build Your Own Tiny House by Roger Marshall, and The Riera Chronicles by Michael J. Sullivan.Thanks a bunch.
Hi, my name is Jenny Rogers.I work for the Alameda County Library for our library services program at the Santa Rita Jail.Some of the most popular requests right now are Shogun by James Clavel, Santaram by Gregory David Roberts.
Swan Song by Robert McCammon, and The Red Rising Series by Pierce Brown.
Thank you.Hi, my name is Melody Kenneman, and I work for Johnson County Library System in the Kansas City metro area.And our incarcerated patrons can't get enough of S.A.Cosby, Razorblade Tears, Blacktop Wasteland, All the Sinners Bleed.
They love them.Thank you.
Hi, this is Allie with the Prisoners Literature Project, located in Berkeley, California.We send books to incarcerated people across the U.S., including Puerto Rico.
Some of our most frequently requested titles include the Webster's Dictionary and Thesaurus, the We the People Legal Primer, fantasy novels like the Song of Ice and Fire series, or the Wheel of Time series.
My name is Kaliba Chukwundu.I work at the Maryland Correctional Institution at Jessup, and some of our most requested authors are James Patterson and David Baldacci. We also have a lot of interest in self-help titles and entrepreneurship.
Good morning.My name is Renee Welsh.I'm calling from the Books to Prison Program in Birmingham, Alabama, a nonprofit that services Alabama and Texas.
The top authors requested are Stephen King, John Grisham, Max Lucado, David Baldacci, and William Johnstone.
My name is Charlotte Sanders, and I'm a librarian at San Quentin.A lot of graphic novels.We've got a lot of armchair travelers, so the Lonely Planet books are really big.Urbans, of course, and their titles always make my day.
Never Trust a Ratchet Bee was my favorite recent one.A lot of classics, too, like the Gulag Archipelago, because when else are you going to read Anna Karenina or War and Peace?
What surprised me the most was when we had Death Row here, and all the serial killers really liked light, frothy, tea-cozy mysteries like Janet Ivanovich and Sue Grafton.I always wondered, who do they relate to in those books?
This is Kelsey Jordan-Makley.I'm a librarian who provides library services in Western Mass at the Franklin County Jail.Our top book
and requests are for Naruto, 48 Laws of Power, books about dreams and dream interpretation, urban fiction, and of course, a lot of James Patterson and Stephen King.You never know though, last week we got a request for Freckle Juice by Judy Blume.
You look so comfortable in here.Do you spend a lot of time in here?As much as I can.You're sitting on the floor like you're on a little lily pad or something.
I like to be on the floor.
This is Elisa, and I really remember the moment we first spotted her in the library.
Yeah, you and I were at the Central California Women's Facility, and we were in the library taking pictures of urban fiction books.
Exactly, and I thought the library was empty, and I peered over this bookshelf, And I was so surprised because sitting on the ground was this woman with her legs curled under her.She just looked like, I don't know, like a little pixie or something.
It was like she belonged there.
Yeah.You've heard of a church mouse?She was like a little library mouse.She was in her natural habitat.
What are you doing right now?I'm looking in the book section with the medical references.I'm looking up some medical information that I'm trying to get a hold of and novels and I'll check out.I'm here.
I'll get three books so I can check out a couple of my favorite authors and some medical stuff that I'm trying to find.How long have you been in prison?I was in county 14 months.I've been here six.So like 20 months in custody.
Oh, 20.Okay.So do you remember the first book you read in custody?
No, I've read just like over 300 books.In that period of time?Yeah, I read like, well, those are 1,400 pages.They take me a little bit longer.But in county, because we were only out an hour a day, I was reading a book a day.
300, 400-page book in a day.So how many books do you think you've read in your life?I don't know.I don't know.I had a lot of kids.I read a lot.My kids were avid readers.I love kids' books.
If this library was filled with kids' books, I'd read them all.
What book are you reading right now?
I'm finishing the Outlander series, like 1,400 pages apiece.I just finished the seventh and so I'm reading the last one of that series.Is that a fantasy series?It's, yeah, kind of sci-fi drama history all combined.It was like a HBO series.
Jamie and Claire were the main people.It's really fascinating.It's like time travel. So I'm going to be so sad when it's over because that's my world right now.Like I get to escape into that world.So this doesn't feel so oppressive.
I know that feeling that you're talking about when a series or something ends and you feel a sadness.Yeah.It's like a loss.I know.Guess who's still at it?
Tommy, Tommy, Tommy.Go Tommy. 10, 15 years passed, they like 15 years into the game, now everybody in, everybody rich.Tay and Miguel grows up, Miguel got a wife, Tay got a wife.But how much longer is this book?Just a little bit longer.
I just told you like a seven series, so like a seven series.Okay.I'm making it as short as I can, that's why.So for me, after that, Tay got a wife, they got a wife.
Yeah, I just got a cut.Yeah, it looks nice, nicely shaped.
Yeah, that's it.I'm looking more professional.
Instead of the bald head.
This is Marcus Henderson, aka Wally.
Yeah, and Erlon, we have known him, it feels like forever.
Forever, because he works with us in the media lab over at the San Quentin News.And pretty much anytime we're in there, he come through and say, what's up?
Yep.And one time he happened to mention this story from when he was 19 years old and he had just gotten to prison.
It was a time, man, I was really into like gang mentality, gang activity. just not really fully functioning on, you know, using my thought processes, right?It was so crazy.I was going to get my face tatted.Your face?My face.
I was in my face and my neck.I was going to have, fuck the world.I would have to FTW up under my eye and just fuck the world under my neck.Come from my right ear all the way to my left ear.So.
It was going to be big.When I lift my neck up, I want you to read it.
Oh, kind of like a smile.
Yeah, like a smile.And that's just how far I was going in my life, just thinking this life was over with.
Why was you trying to get fucked the world?What had happened that led you to that?
Well, I mean, I mean, I got convicted for the crimes, just newly in the prison.And I think that was just like, you just was getting your tattoos to represent what you represented.How I got there and how I was feeling, what was pent up inside me.
Everything I felt, you know, as a youngster, it was like, just fuck the world.The world didn't care about me.So I didn't care about the world.And I wanted to display that. I was just a young, upset person.
When I got my tats, I was gonna go out and get released and have that same attitude.That was my thought process.So I was in Soledad.So you had Lassen and you had Rainier.So the tattoo guy stayed in Rainier, I stayed in Lassen.
So I tried to go to another building to actually get my face tatted. I go, I hit the handle to tell a guard to let me in so I can just go up in here.He was like, man, you don't live up in here.
I'm like, I just want to make a quick run and I'm going to come back out.He's like, no man, just get away from here.So my idea was like, I just wait till in line and just sneak in and go get my tats.Then this tall black guy approached me.
He said, hey man, you look smart.If I give you a book, would you read it? And I was like, yeah.So he gave me a book called Enemies by Hakeem Obuti.And that was my first book.
So Waleed goes back to his cell and he is just glued to this book.
It was just about the black struggle, the black plight in America.This opened my eyes, it like blew my mind, like a lot of stuff that I didn't know, a lot of stuff I was participating in, I was like, I didn't know how I got there.
When I start reading about black history and what a black man is, you know, versus the childish thinking, what it means to think like a man and act like a boy, what is our goals as being black men, it's just really like, yeah, I'm not thinking to the proper level.
So it was like, wow, I was just doing everything opposite of everything that he was sharing with me.
If a people are oppressed, everything that they do is political, from the food they eat to the clothing they wear.And the most political of all actions may be the love displayed among the people.
The love of the race may at this time be the highest level of political development. It is most certainly political that we don't love or care for each other.In fact, we don't even like each other.
Therefore, if one truly loves one's people, one would never betray, misuse, confuse, steal from, or harm another member of the race under any but the most serious of circumstances.
I mean, I probably dabbled on the street in a book.I don't think I ever finished a book.Even going to school, I don't think I ever finished a book.But that was the first book that I actually read from cover to cover and finished.
Do you remember how long it took you to read it?
I think maybe a couple of days.Oh, you really dug in.Yeah.Once my mind got blown, I was in.I was like, oh man, what else I didn't know.This stuff is crazy.Like this is why I'm in position I'm in, in jail.
It was like recognizing that it was potholes set up for people who are poor and black.And not to say it's still like that now, but you know.
After that, I was thinking, like, what else, you know?I didn't know.I went to the Soledad Library, and I just started getting everything.
I started reading Socrates, Kant, Aristotle, anything that just came up about thought processing and how people think.And then I just moved from there to, like, the struggles of the Native Americans.Books just opened me up to another world.
It was just like, just like, wow, it's a lot that's going on with the human being, right, that we don't know.
Let me ask you this, after reading that first book, outside of your mind being blown, what else you noticed that changed about you?
How did I view people, you know, and how did I view life?I think I became a scientist.I just started going outside and just watching my friends and watching people dealing with different situations.It made me love myself.
I really started loving myself.That was the change about not fuck the world no more.Like, look, you come from a good stock.You supposed to be at this level of thinking.I didn't get the strength yet to hold like my authentic self yet, but I was there.
So who do you credit with that change happening?
So everybody played their part.First and foremost, a guy intervened, the guard not letting me in.Me coming back and the guy actually just said, look, you look smart if I give you a book.
And I mean, like nobody just ever ran up on you and say, if I give you a book, you know what I'm saying, or you're going to be cool. Everybody played their part into that transformation.
And if the guard hadn't stopped you, you probably would have gone ahead and gotten that tattoo.
You'd be looking at me right now with, fuck the world, oh my.
Trying to get these facial removals, tattoo removals.That's probably what would have happened.
So let me ask you this.If you had to get a tattoo right now, what would it say?
It's like, love the world.I go opposite now. I actually went back and bought the book again to see what makes it change my life.And it really is not as good as I thought it was.But I was at that space.Yeah.
But what's good for you at 19 is going to be different.
It's going to be different now.At the time.Well, at the time it did its job.It got me.
They got away, they got away.He told Miguel, our kids do not need to be together.Wool breaks out.Now the truth starts coming out.It turns out Tay is a girl.
Oh, did you see that coming?
No, that's why I said it's a weird book.It's a weird book.
I think we were supposed to have a bigger reaction.
I know, Erlan, you didn't react at all.I barely did.And Tommy, I'm sorry.I know that was supposed to be the big reveal.
The only reason why I said all I had to is to really throw your wolf from the bag that she was a girl.
Yeah.Yeah.No, I didn't see that coming.
I'm not gonna lie, I finished that series in like a day or two, like probably three, the longest.Nothing but the book.I don't give a fuck about nothing else but this book.I personally, I can say I love it.I'm not gonna lie.
It's just like, it's like, oh, what's next?It's like, you just want to know what's next and it's right at your fingertips.So it's like, what's next?
At this point, Tommy had been talking 20, 25 minutes straight, and we'd been sitting in this small room, no air, like we had done a whole bunch of interviews.You were doodling, which I never see you do.
I was over there drawing Mark 5, what was I drawing?You were drawing little speed racer cars.I was dazed, I'm telling you, I was not myself.
Thanks to Tommy, I don't have to read the book.Sorry, T-Styles.
So at this point, our producer, Amy, jumped in probably because she felt sorry for us.And she asked him what he was reading now.
Oh, Fifty Shades of Grey.
No way.What do you think?
It's just, what the fuck is this?What is he talking about dominant?Like, what is this dominant?What made you want to read it?It's a big book.It's kind of time-consuming.
It's a very big book.So you go by how many pages?I just see big books and heard a lot about it.Like, mentioned a lot.Like, 50 Shades of Grey, 50 Shades of Grey, 50 Shades of Grey.
Yeah, it just makes me think, like, is that really happening out there right now?Like, are people really doing that dominant stuff?
I don't know, but it's popular inside San Quentin too.
There's a lot of sex scenes in that book.It's overextensive.Like for no reason, it should never be that much in that book.It's just like, I'd be having to just skip a couple pages.
I feel like that's the point.That's why people read it.I think, like I said, I haven't read it.
But I heard they dumbed the movie down a lot.Like the movie dumbed it down a lot.
Naj, of all the books mentioned in this episode, which one would you read first?
Oh my God, there are so many, Erlon.Well, my better self would love to say the first book I'm going to grab is, what was it, Dante's The Bitch? I was going to say Dante's, what was it, Dante's Divine Comedy, but The Bitch.
The Bitch.You know that's about pimps and prostitutes.
It sounds really fun.I love that the guy's going to either buy me something from Tiffany's or Cartier, depending on how long I hang out.What a great fantasy.What about you?
Uh, probably the new dimension in African history.
I mean, I plan on going to Africa soon, so I got to brush up.
You know, Erlan, I really love that.Well, when we started this episode, I was worried it was going to be kind of too virtuous, like, oh, books saved my life.Books changed, you know, changed everything for me.
But I love how, just like on the outside, people in prison are reading all kinds of stuff, right?The good, the bad, the high, the low.
I mean, it's an escape.What did Miss Guidry say?You're going to get a little streets, a little romance, a little... Cheating, deception.Yeah, deception.You're going to get lots of money.You're going to lose lots of money.Might even lose your life.
But I'm just saying it's entertaining.
That's a great note to go out on.
OK.OK. This is Christy, co-founder of Friends of the San Quentin Library.We work to bring more books and resources into prison libraries in California.Ear Hustle is produced by Nigel Poore, Erlon Woods, Amy Standen, Bruce Wallace.
Rusan New York-Thomas, and Kat Schuchnetz.Subnam Sigmund is the managing producer.The producing team inside San Quentin includes Darrell Sadiq-Davis, Tony DeTrendidad, and Tom Nguyen.The inside managing producer is Tony Tafoya.
Thanks to acting warden Andes at San Quentin, acting warden Parker, and Lieutenant Newborg at the California Institution for Women,
and Warden De La Cruz and Lieutenant Williams at the Central California Women's Facility for their support of the show.Thanks also to this woman here.
I am Lieutenant Gia Marie Berry, the Public Information Officer at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center, and I approve this episode.
This episode was made possible by the Just Trust, building a smaller, more humane engine of justice and safety across the country.
We want to thank New York City's Administration for Children's Services and our friends at Drama Club and Spark Research for Social Change at Michigan State and Hunter College.
A very special thank you to Lee Jaspar for the book readings in this episode.Audible, I hope you're listening.Erlon Woods sound designs and engineers the show with help from Fernando Arruda, Harry Culhane, and Darrell Sadiq Davis.
Music for this episode comes from Darrell Sadiq Davis, Antoine Williams, Fernando Arruda, David Jossie, and me, Erlon Woods.
For more information about this episode, check out the show notes on Ear Hustle's website, EarHustleSQ.com.
And if you want to learn more about this episode and all of our episodes, sign up for our monthly email newsletter, The Lowdown.
You can see photos, go behind the scenes to find out what the Ear Hustle team is up to, and more.Sign up at EarHustleSQ.com slash newsletter.
You can also find us on social media, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at EarHustleSQ.
Roland, what's going on at YouTube?I've never looked at it.Can you believe it?YouTube is cracking.
I mean, you know, we need to do more interactive videos, but you know, our content is up there.
All right, let's make some more videos.That sounds fun.Indeed.If you're not already, follow and review Ear Hustle on any of your favorite podcast platforms, like Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and the iHeartRadio app.
We love to read that stuff.Ear Hustle is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, creator-owned, listener-supported podcasts.
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