Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau.I'm Dan Pfeiffer.On today's show, with a little over one week until election day, both candidates are trying to close the deal with the remaining undecided voters.
Kamala Harris has the Obamas, Beyonce, and a big speech in D.C.at the scene of the January 6th attack, while Donald Trump has Elon Musk in an interview with Joe Rogan, and Tucker Carlson calling him a daddy who's ready to spank America. Wild stuff.
Not making it up.Not a joke, folks.And later, Texas Congressman Colin Allred stops by to talk about Kamala's last-minute visit to his home state and the latest in his critical race to unseat Ted Cruz.
But first, not one but two four-star generals who worked for Donald Trump have now called him a fascist who praised Hitler. And so the big debate is, will it hurt Kamala Harris?
You're not.You're not really kidding.
But the vice president was asked about John Kelly's comments during a CNN town hall with undecided Pennsylvania voters on Wednesday night.In a possible preview of the closing argument speech she'll give next Tuesday, here's what she said.
You've quoted General Milley calling Donald Trump a fascist.You yourself have not used that word to describe him.Let me ask you tonight, do you think Donald Trump is a fascist?
Yes, I do.Yes, I do.And I also believe that the people who know him best on this subject should be trusted.And he's going to sit there unstable, unhinged, plotting his revenge, plotting his retribution, creating an enemies list.
I'm going to tell you my list will be a list of how I address and continue to address the issues that you all are raising this afternoon and evening.It will be a to do list about how we can impact the American people.
All right.She used the F word, Dan.I didn't I didn't see too many pearls clutched over this.But what did you think of the of that answer on John Kelly?
I think if the retired four-star general responsible for implementing Donald Trump's dracodian immigration policies then became his chief of staff thinks he's a fascist, who is Kamala Harris to disagree with that?I mean, she had to say yes to it.
It is sort of like a dumb DC trap.Like, are you going to use the word?Are you going to use the word?I know you've described him in the following ways, but are you going to use the actual word?Can you use the word and his name in the same sentence?
Are you going to do it?Are you going to do it?And so it's kind of a dumb conversation we can talk about. the political discourse around whether it hurts or anything else.
But what I do like is the construction that came after that about an enemies list and a to-do list.Donald Trump's going to be seeking vengeance to satisfy his own needs, and Kamala Harris is going to be out there doing things for you.
That's the right framework, because you have to make it mattered in people's lives.Because the idea whether he's a fascist is an esoteric concept to a lot of people.
And so a lot of people probably don't even know what the word means or can't really define it.
I was going to say, if you asked a sample of people in this country to define fascism, I think you'd be bewildered by what you find. Maybe a bit disappointed.They do know Hitler?
You're right, there's three different answers you can give to that question.No, he's not a fascist, which obviously she's not going to say.She said yes.Or she could have done something like,
Let me tell you what I think he is and then defined him herself.But that's sort of like a squirrely answer.And then Anderson Cooper would have said, OK, so yes or no fascist.And then suddenly it's a whole thing.
And if she doesn't say yes, then it's out of the headlines.And again, I'm sure the Harris campaign probably thinks it's a good day for them.
when their opponent is in the headlines because four-star generals who worked for him think he's a fascist and said that he praised Hitler.I'm new in politics, but I don't know.
I feel like it's bad for you when people who used to work for you who are in the military said that you're a fascist who praised Hitler.
We think. Everything is so stupid, Dan.The whole thing is so stupid.
There is a very serious thing here, which is, put aside the use of whether Milley and Kelly and all these rest of these people use the term fascist, what they're telling us is that he is a dangerous man who has tried on multiple occasions to use military force against American citizens and believes that the people who work for him, including the members of the military, should be personally loyal to Trump over their loyalty to the Constitution of the nation.
That is the thing here.Whether we use the word or not is an idiotic Washington, D.C.debate.It just speaks to the ability of politics, political discourse in the media in this country to pull every important issue to its dumbest possible formulation.
Okay, I feel a little bit better for saying that.He wanted the Department of Justice to investigate his political opponents.He wanted the IRS to audit his political opponents.
He wanted to withhold federal aid to places in the country that needed it but didn't vote for him.He asked his defense secretary why the military couldn't shoot unarmed protesters, Black Lives Matter protesters.
He's asked multiple times why he couldn't use the military against protesters.He has been threatening to take away CBS's broadcast license because Kamala Harris did an interview with them that made him mad.
Right as we're recording, he just once again said that the press are bad people, that they are the enemy of the people, and he doesn't like them.Whatever you want to call that, you can call it
You can call him a fascist, you can call him a strongman, you can call him a demagogue, a tyrant, whatever the fuck you want.You can call him an asshole if you want.But the guy wants to take away people's freedoms.
He's already taken reproductive freedom away from the women of this country.He wants to come after freedom of the press, freedom to protest and criticize him, freedom to join a union, freedom to see a doctor when you're sick, go on and on and on.
That's what he wants to do.So I think you're right, like talking about what Trump will do, the threat of a fascist like Trump,
is probably going to be more important to voters than just a definition or a debate over the definition of the word fascist.Harris also answered questions about the economy, abortion, immigration, mistakes she's made in the past.
Overall, it seems as though some of the undecided voters CNN spoke to afterwards approved.Let's listen.
I think if I had to pick right now, I would, I would pick her.I think she is a better candidate.
And you're a registered Republican.
You're an independent now.Who'd you vote for in 2020?
I voted for Trump.I came out of this feeling, just kind of a feeling of adoration of her personally.I think personally she is a good person.There are a lot of things that I connect with her as a woman.
I believe it was you that asked the weakness question.What is your biggest weakness?And she brought up that she has people around her that she can trust, that she can get the answer from.
In my line of work in IT, I don't expect everybody to know the answer.I expect them to know how to get the answer.And her specifically, that resonated with me.
Do you know you get the answer in IT?You call the IT guy.
That's a subject where I definitely don't know the answer.So it always feels like there's a bit of a gap between pundit reaction and voter reaction.
I can tell you the CNN panel did not have a similar reaction to those undecided voters in Pennsylvania who are actually going to decide the election.What do you make of the gap there?
Well, over the long sweep of history, this is not the first time there's been a gap between how pundits have interpreted a candidate's performance and how voters have done it.But let's just say a couple of things here.
One, typically in these sorts of things, pundits are looking at this from a very different perspective, right?They are judging it like a judge at a figure skating event at the Olympics, right?
What Pluff would always say.
What do the figure skating judges have to say?
The Russian judges, he would call it, because you can't get a fair You can't get a fair score.And it's just like, there is this question about mistakes and she missed an opportunity to separate herself from Biden.
That's just not how normal people think about this stuff.So that's one.
Two is, and we've seen in all of the research I've seen, all the message testing I've seen, there's a very simple truth here, which is that when people see Kamala Harris, they're more likely to vote for her. And just think about it.
It's sort of mind-boggling listening to people that they were undecided before this moment, but the fact that they were, they probably actually had not seen very much of her.Maybe they saw TV commercials of her, but not her actually speaking.
There she's up there.She's answering tough questions from reporters and citizens.
She is doing her best to answer them earnestly and truthfully, and she is a serious person who seems to care about people, is in it for the right reasons, and knows something about policy.
The other side, you've got this other fucking Yahoo yapping around about Arnold Palmer's putter and all this other shit that's happening.
And so just like if you're like, you can see why this is why she's doing these things, because when people see her, they like her.
And that is if you're looking for reasons to be optimistic down the stretch here, that is a reason to be optimistic, because the more people see Kamala Harris, the more likely they are to vote for her because she is better liked than Trump.
Yeah, I mean, look, a lot of these pundits, some of them are Democratic strategists, some of them are journalists.We've done this too.
Part of this is born out of a desire for Kamala Harris to win, because a lot of these people know what a threat Donald Trump is, right?
And Democratic strategists can be open about it, some of the journalists maybe not, but a lot of these people want Kamala Harris to win.
And they're so nervous, as we are, because it's so fucking close, and so we're scrutinizing every performance and everything she says and want it to be perfect so badly because we want her to win, right?
Because we're worried about how it's going to play with some voter if she says something wrong. And guess what?She's going to make mistakes and she's going to say things that are wrong.
And also, she's got the weight of the world on her shoulders right now.She has been the nominee for 90 days.This is her whole campaign.She was thrust into this.Is that what it is?Yeah.90 day campaign, basically. Jesus Christ.I know.
And so like, I in look, you can see some of the her answers where I thought were like, crisp, great, whatever.
Some of them were, you know, when she doesn't want to answer a question, because she's worried about sort of like the political implications of saying x or y, she sort of like devolves into a little bit of word salad, like, that's just what she does.
And every politician has that kind of dodge.And by the way, almost every other presidential candidate has like a whole year. to practice, practice giving bad answers to questions because they all do it.
And you usually practice like off Broadway for a while before you are thrust into the spotlight.She did not have that opportunity and she has run a near flawless campaign.
And so like, yeah, once in a while when she gets a question that's like sort of politically tricky, she does, you know, she's just going to say a bunch of words to avoid actually answering it.But you got to think, A,
The other guy wants to shoot the protesters.And B, voters don't actually judge these candidates as harshly as the pundits do.And like, I sort of learned this with the Vance Walls debate.Like, Vance was very polished.Walls stumbled a few times.
And then after the debate, voters were like, oh, J.D.Vance might have won the debate, but I liked him walls better.He's just he's just a better guy. because they can see through the bullshit, right?
And so I think sometimes we treat voters, even that we are frustrated with them for being undecided, but therefore we treat them as stupid.And they're not stupid.They kind of get it.
And they get that sometimes people don't answer a question or something or whatever.But the overall impression of Kamala Harris that was left with these voters was a real favorable one.
And that was true at the debate.That was true at the convention.It's every time I've seen a dial test about one of her appearances, whether it's the podcasts she's been doing at the interviews, is she leaves every interaction with
the voters who see her, and it's hard to get people to see her, but with the voters who see her liking her more and being more open to vote for her.
Yeah, it doesn't mean she's going to win, but for the voters who are seeing her, that's the challenge.Yeah, exactly.
So as I mentioned earlier, the Harris campaign has announced that the vice president will be giving a closing argument speech on Tuesday evening on the Ellipse.
That's part of the National Mall just beyond the White House South Fence where Donald Trump appeared at the Stop the Steal rally on January 6th and of course urged his followers to march to the Capitol. We all know what happened next.
What is the strategy behind doing a speech like this in general?And then what do you think about this location?
I mean, you've written a bunch of these, so you probably have some really smart things to say about it, but the ultimate idea here is there's like a handful of events during a campaign where the press will cover you and give you pretty straight coverage, right?
They'll just say, here's what our candidate had to say today.This is their message.And one of them is that whatever speech it is you label, it's basically your announcement speech, your convention speech, and your closing argument speech.
We label it my closing argument speech.And what you're trying to do there is you're trying to set the terms of the debate for the last seven days of the race.
You need to let the press know, and your supporters know, and everyone out there know, what is your focus on?What do you think the major issues are?And here's your final message.
And when you set up a big signal of, here's my final message, the next time they go cover your rally, they're going to cover the part you've said is my final message, as opposed to all the other stuff.And so it works that way.
And the choice of the location I think here is very smart.As far as I understand it, it's not going to be a speech about January 6th or democracy or fascism.
It's going to be a broader argument that probably fits more with what we're seeing in her paid advertising than what you're seeing in some of the press interactions recently that gets in the economy.
continues to define her and cutting costs and all of those things.But by doing it on this location, the site of Donald Trump's day of love is a opportunity to remind people of the danger of Donald Trump.It's a way to get attention from the press.
And I think also in this, I'm sure this is not their main reason for doing it, but it's going to trigger the living shit out of him.Like, you know what he's going to do.He's going to say he had a bigger crowd.
which is going to be very funny and not good for him.
It was a wonderful crowd and it was a peaceful day and I don't know what she's doing and all that kind of stuff.
Look, I think the closing argument speech is an opportunity to take your announcement speech, take your convention speech and slim it down to one tight argument.
And that speech in your final week, right, where you're gonna have, you know, presumably be in front of really big rallies, is like a pump-up speech for everyone, right?
Like it is a signal to the press, as you said, that the press is gonna cover it, but it's also like you are literally making your final argument to voters who are tuning in, some of them, some of them for the first time, in the last week to see both candidates.
So it is a distillation of your message in the tightest way possible.You know, there's been this debate among Democratic strategists, pundits, about the wisdom of closing on Trump's threat versus Kamala's vision.
And you and I have talked about this on the pod, off the pod.
Every day, every single day.
I have struggled with this in my head.I think it's a tough debate.Persuadable voters keep saying they want to know more about Kamala and what kind of president she'll be. I get that.
I've been in focus groups for several years where they say they want to know more about the candidates.They want to know more about the economy.What are you going to do for me?Kitchen table issues.
You hear it from voters everywhere, especially swing voters, especially persuadable voters in the swing states.But the Harris campaign Plouffe said this to Puck the other day.
Their research shows that they need to elevate the risk of a second Trump term in the minds of voters, and that that is an important piece of business to get done, as well as making sure people know who Kamala is, what she stands for, what she'll do as president.
What do you think about this whole debate?I think it's a little bit of a false debate.
You have to do both and the Harris campaign is doing both.I took the opportunity this afternoon while we were waiting for Donald Trump to have a rally to go and look at all the ads that the Harris campaign has on the air. Do you know what they are?
They do both things.Contrast ads, yeah.Well, they're contrast ads, but there's a lot of economy in there.
There is a lot of her, there's a bunch of ads, and if you've been watching sports the last couple weeks, you'll see a bunch of ads of her to camera, laying out her vision and her story, and then tying it to her economic policies.
I think only one totally negative ad about Trump up, and it's about Project 2025, and the rest are, here's who I am, here's what I'm gonna do, here's what this guy's gonna do.And so you have to do both.And I do think it's important to
understand the media environment in which she's operating in.It would be great if the press and the social media conversation could ever be about her plan to cut costs.
I'm almost laughing about it.Imagine her closing argument speech
just like at a outside a factory in pennsylvania like a grocery store right she'd give it fart in the wind yeah like it would not they would say like oh yeah she's giving a speech whatever and she'd be like i said something about uh donald trump's gonna cut taxes for rich people and she's gonna cut taxes for the middle class and then no one would fucking hear it and i bet it would test off the charts the charts this is this actually this fact explains
almost everything you need to know about politics and media today, which is the issues that are most persuasive to voters generate the least engagement for political media.
because there's this giant divide between the political junkies and partisans who consume political media and the rest of the world.
So what drives traffic and drives ratings, and it is a legitimate story, I'm not criticizing it from a journalistic perspective, is Donald Trump's chief of staff calling him a fascist, and then a big debate about whether we use the word fascist and who's a fascist and how we talk about that.
What gets swing voters interested is your plan to protect Social Security and Medicare, to protect the Affordable Care Act, to cut taxes, to cut costs, and you just can't get press coverage of that.And so her choice is
Talk about the things the press will cover to try and be on offense, because if she's not on offense, Donald Trump's going to be on offense.
Or just do a bunch of things on the issues that poll best and get no coverage for it and let Donald Trump dominate the conversation with migrants eating pets, bullshit stories about gangs taking over the border, or condominiums in Denver, or whatever else is going on there.
So I think the conversation is missing the broader context of politics and media right now.
I mean, sometimes you just have to, like, put all the polls down and just, like, use fucking common sense.
And when your opponent's former administration officials are saying that he's a fascist, you don't respond to that by being like, you know what's fascist?These high prices.These corporations that are gouging consumers.That's what's fascist.
Like, what the fuck are we doing?
It's so insane and like again I am someone who like it was obsessed with the data and the polls and the focus groups but like at some point you gotta you just you gotta say what's real to people what people are seeing in their own lives which is when it comes to choosing between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris Donald Trump who is promising to do all these things Mike Podhorzer who has been on the wilderness a lot he's a democratic strategist
is very steeped in the research and focus groups and all that.
He made a really good point in one of his newsletters, which is everyone always says, well, the reason you don't talk about Trump is because everyone's already made up their mind about Trump.People know everything there is to know about Donald Trump.
And he argues that may be true about Trump, the person and Trump's character. He goes, but what people don't know is the sort of threat level.
Their consciousness about the threat that Trump poses sort of changes from time to time, because not everyone's paying attention to everything he says, because he says so much bullshit all the time.There's chaos and drama around him all the time.
And so what you need to do is sort of elevate the risk of a Trump second term with new information about Donald Trump and what he's going to do. that doesn't mean you just yell about Trump orange man bad, right?We get it.
People have made up their mind about Donald Trump the person, but what Donald Trump might do is still very much up for grabs.
And he also makes the point, when you look back at the last couple of elections, if only the people who voted in 2016 voted in 2020,
Some of them switch from Trump to Biden, but Biden would still lose the electoral college if that was the only electorate you had.
Biden wins in 2020 because of irregular voters, you know, low propensity, sporadic voters, whatever you want to call them, who sat out 2016 and then came back into the electorate in 2020.
And those voters were far more likely to say that the reason they came out in 2020 was to stop Trump, not to support Biden, right?And so there are these, he calls these like an anti-MAGA coalition.
There are these voters who don't tend to vote in every election, but they have come out in 18 and 20 and 22 to vote against Donald Trump.
Some of them might be independent, some of them might be Republicans, some of them might be just Democrats who don't vote all the time.And Those people right now, a lot of them are maybe Harris voters, right?
She hasn't locked in that whole coalition yet, but what they'll need is a reminder that the threat of a Trump second term is very real and very dangerous.
And I think that's what the campaign is doing, even as they're also having a bunch of ads and having her say who she is and what she's for, right?They have to define her too, but you got to walk and chew gum at the same time.You got to do both.
The only campaign in recent history that only does one thing is the 2024 Trump campaign, which only runs negative ads about Kamala Harris. Almost every other campaign, like we've, we just have such short fucking memories in this country.
Every campaign has a positive message and a negative message at the end.It's not, it's not bizarre.They're doing both.
You don't have to pick between them, especially when you have all the money they have, you can run all the ads you want, you can do the things you want.
And so it's like, I get all the concerns about this, the debate about it, you know, what she emphasizes in her speech will be interesting.Um, but you have to do both.
Yeah.And look, the real challenge too is coming up with a story that kind of connects everything.
Because when you go from the threat of a second Trump term and you're talking about him, like wanting to like shoot protesters and, uh, you know, shred the constitution.And then you're like, but he also wants to give a big tax cut to rich people.Like
It is it's it's hard to fit it all into a story But I do think to your earlier point though like he's gonna be sitting in the Oval Office Focused on his enemies list and I'm gonna be focused on a to-do list of things to get done for the American people I think like that is the best contrast that sort of brings it all together Another possible side effect of focusing on how dangerous Trump is is that it's a pretty serious tone.
It's certainly different from the the joy from from brat summer Ah, the days.Not so long ago.I know, right?Do you think, is there a way, is there a need to revive that feeling in the final two weeks?Or is it, can you do both?What do you think?
You can absolutely do both because you can paint a picture.Because the flip side, another way of thinking about the message of joy is hope.
And this is a righteous cause that Kamala Harris, this campaign, and the entire movement of people working to defeat Donald Trump are on.
And it is to turn the page on a very dark era, personified by this very dark and dangerous person, and to paint a picture of what that looks like, right?What the new way forward looks like.
Imagine what it would be like if Kamala Harris is sitting in the Oval Office, right?And Donald Trump has lost the election.And then, a few weeks after losing the election, has to show up in Manhattan for his criminal sentencing, right?
I think you can be hopeful.
You can be.And to me, that is an even easier turn to make, right?Because after you talk about that, it's like she can say we don't have to live this way.Yeah.Right.
Like we do not have to let politicians like Donald Trump divide us and make us afraid of each other all the time and make us angry at each other all the time. just so he can take power for himself and help himself and his rich friends.
And like, we can turn the page on all that.In one week, we can turn the page on all that.We can defend our freedoms.We can defend opportunity and equal treatment under the law.
And we can get back to the business of like working together and reaching out to actually do things for people to make their lives better, which is what he and MAGA politicians have prevented us from doing for even when Joe Biden was president.
for the last four years, right?And so like, I think you can definitely end on a note of hope there.And it's, I don't think it's discordant at all. Speaking of joy, we got Beyonce headlining a Harris rally in her hometown of Houston tonight.
We also had Bruce Springsteen and Tyler Perry appearing with Harris and Barack Obama on Thursday night in Atlanta.Usher did a Harris rally in Atlanta as well.James Taylor played a set at a Tim Walz rally in North Carolina.
Leaving Obama aside, he's having the time of his life out there.Just wrapping lose yourself.What's the value do you think of these big celebrity events?
It's attention, right?It is impossible to get attention in this totally fucked up media environment, particularly when you're running against someone like Donald Trump, who is a reality star attention monger.
And plus, because of all the anticipation that Beyonce was going to make a surprise appearance at the convention, this is the one people have been waiting for.More people pay attention.The clips will go more viral on TikTok.People will see it.
You'll get a bigger crowd, which matters a lot in these battleground states, especially with these musicians.
Uh, you might get people who wouldn't otherwise come to a rally because they want to hear Beyonce play a song or hear Bruce Springsteen play a song.And those are people who may be.
Maybe you aren't going to vote necessarily, but they might come or show up or at least be, you know, prophesized to.And so, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not the end all be all.
It's not the Beyonce's endorsement is going to win the election for her, but appearing with Beyonce will get Kamala Harris more attention.
And then you just hope in the 15 seconds you have a voter's attention, you can deliver a message that will persuade them.
Yeah, I feel like it's going to be an organizing tool as well, right?Because if those extra people come, then you can get more volunteers.You can sign people up.I will note that the Ares tour is back in the United States after it was overseas.
And there is a gap in Taylor Swift's schedule between October 27th and November 1st when she's in Indianapolis.So. Next week, who knows?Be nice if Taylor showed up at a Kamala Harris rally.I don't know anything.I'm just wishing that into existence.
I'm manifesting that into existence.No one assumed you did.Well, the way I said it, I was sort of like, get ready everyone.
I don't want to be accused.You sounded like RFK talking about vaccines.I'm just online.I'm looking at the schedule.I'm doing some research.
Our new healthy human services secretary, right?Yes, yes.Maha.There's something for you.Yeah, there's something for you.Worry about your kids' vaccines.RFK Jr.in charge.All right, so Harris has Beyonce and Trump has Tucker Carlson.
The man who nearly brought down Fox News over alleged sexism and harassment introduced Trump at a rally in Georgia on Wednesday, where he reached for this metaphor to describe the relationship between Donald Trump and America.
There has to be a point at which Dad comes home.And he's pissed.Dad is pissed.He's not vengeful.He loves his children.Disobedient as they may be, he loves them.Because they're his children, they live in his house.
But he's very disappointed in their behavior.And he's gonna have to let them know.And when Dad gets home, you know what he says?You've been a bad girl. You've been a bad little girl and you're getting a vigorous spanking right now.
And no, it's not going to hurt me more than it hurts you.No, it's not.I'm not going to lie.This is going to hurt you a lot more than it hurts me.And you earned this.You're getting a vigorous spanking because you've been a bad girl.
I knew that happened.I don't think I'd heard the whole clip.I was not quite prepared for that vigorous spanking that Tucker Carlson is very, very excited about.Enthusiastic about this story.He's thought about that one for a while.Yeah.
Call him daddy.That's... Literally.He wants America to call Donald Trump daddy.What was that?Was that just to trigger libs?Was that to just play out his weird fantasy?What the fuck was that?
I think his brain is broken. I don't know what else to say.I don't think there's a strategy.I don't think there's a message.I don't think it's just to trigger libs.There are many ways to do that that's less fucking weird than that was like this.
Tim Walz needed more evidence for his repugnance of weird message.Just there you go.
I mean, what a closing argument. Trump, daddy's home, now we're all getting a spanking.Daddy will sp- I can't.That was smart.Dan was like, I'm not going to say it because they're going to clip me out of contest.
I can't see Elijah, but I know he's in his head, yes.
All right, we just had to play that one.Trump himself was in Arizona on Thursday where his campaign said he'd be previewing his closing message with voters.They described that closing message as, Harris broke it, Trump will fix it.
His campaign sent out excerpts that say, my message today is simple, Kamala's migrant invasion disqualifies her from the presidency.He started speaking right before we were recording, he did say that.He looks like he's like staying on prompter,
more than usual.But, you know, we did get some of this.
A lot of people coming out of the Congo, not just South America.They're coming from 181 countries as of yesterday.Right.And we're a dumping ground.We're like a we're like a garbage can for the world.That's what's happened.That's what's happened.
We're like a garbage can. You know, it's the first time I've ever said that.And every time I come up and talk about what they've done to our country, I get angrier and angrier.First time I've ever said garbage can, but you know what?
It's a very accurate description.
Speaking of hope and joy. What do we think of Donald Trump trying to have a closing argument and a closing message, which is, Harris broke it, Trump will fix it.They say, we're offering people something to vote for, not just vote against.
That's what the campaign has been saying.
I think that's probably a little bit of a stretch there.I mean, it's not the basic framework is fine, I guess.I just don't think that people believe that Kamala Harris broke it.
That's just not – we've seen none of that in the research that they hold her personally accountable for things they don't like in American policy right now, whether it's inflation or immigration.
Now, they have had some traction making the case that she's not the best person to change it because she's so closely associated with the Biden administration.
But this idea that she personally opened the doors to make America a trash can is – that's not – People don't.
I know and it's like you're right like with just a little not that they do subtlety or nuance well but with just a little subtlety and nuance you could make the argument like well you say that Biden did this well you were right there as vice president why didn't you tell him not to right like they did they just skipped right over that they were like she was president for the last four years and she did all these things which I think is just I don't know it's sort of a sort of a lazier version of it but they can't help themselves
You know, for my YouTube show, Political Experts React, I watch all these Trump ads, right?And I've been doing this show for four years now.And this is true of all the Trump, mostly Republican ads now, just because everyone's been Trump-pilled.
is just they can't ever use a scalpel.It's always just a giant sledgehammer.So there's like a good, effective, worrisome message buried in there, but they're just like too broken brained or wannabe testosterone filled to actually do that.
And so they just like way overshoot the runway every single time.And this is emblematic of that trend.
Well, I'm guessing that their strategy in the home stretch over the last month has just been to drive Kamala Harris's negatives up as much as they possibly can to just try to disqualify her so that Trump becomes the better choice on, you know, an issue like the economy or immigration.
Yeah, that's what they did with Hillary.Yeah, Mark Caputo at the Bulwark had a piece today on how much the Trump campaign has spent on these anti-trans ads.26 million dollars, I think.
Yeah, and then the next, like, 5 million was the next issue, and that was the economy.5 million versus 26, 29 million on anti-trans ads.And, you know, I do think part of those ads, you know, which is about, like, her saying that, you know,
inmates should be able to get transition surgery, even if they're undocumented or whatever bullshit thing there is, is, you know, they end that ad with Trump is for you, Kamala is for they, them.Kamala's not for you, she's for they, them, right?
Which I think is not, you know, in the immediate instance, is about trans issues, but more broadly, what they're trying to do there is just say, like, she's not for you, she's for someone else.
Which is, which is a, which is a message that Trump and Republicans have used about Democrats and Republicans use the Democrats for decades, right?
Like they're always trying to tell you Democrats, they, they're not for you, they're for just the poor or they're for black Americans or Latino Americans or immigrants or gay people or trans people, right?Like, and so you're hardworking,
you're a hard-working person and you pay your taxes and you're trying to get ahead and the Democrats just want to give all that to someone else and they have just been and basically they told Mark Peter their strategy is to just just tear her down make people think that she's not for them and that she's weak and that Trump will be the best alternative and like who knows you know I guess maybe if he if he wins well we'll see that it works but um but that's clearly the strategy there.
I mean, this question right here is the hinge point of every American election since the 80s, with the possible exception of 2004, which is it's all a question about who's fighting for who.
And Republicans want to make Democrats look like they're fighting for poor people, immigrants, people on welfare, the 47% in Mitt Romney's parlance.And Democrats want to show Republicans to be fighting for rich people and corporations.
And whoever wins that argument tends to win the election.
Yeah.So after a lot of will he or won't he speculation, Trump's also sitting down with Joe Rogan for an interview in Texas on Friday.Obviously, Trump's been doing a tour of the Manosphere podcast.So in some ways, obvious move.
But Rogan's also criticized Trump in the past.Any risks here?
I mean, it is funny that Trump has finally made himself to the final boss of the Manosphere podcast.He's got to defeat Theo Vaughn and Andrew Schultz and the Nelk Boys, and then you can finally get to Joe Rogan.
Yeah, I think there's tons of risk here.I mean, Rogan is the kind of interviewer where Trump could get himself in a lot of trouble because it's really – he doesn't ask – it's not that he asks hard questions.It's really a very
meandering conversation about what's going through Joe Rogan's mind at the time.It's a lot of runway for Trump to run into something or make mistakes.I'll be very interested to see how Rogan handles this because he has been critical of Trump.
He has pushed back on the idea that he's supporting Trump.He's obviously not a fan of Kamala Harris or Joe Biden.So I'll be very interested to see.This is high risk, high reward for Trump, no question.
There was a report a couple of weeks ago that Kamala Harris might do Rogan.What do you think happened there?It's a great question.
And there was a lot of speculation when she was coming to Texas to do this event on Friday, both the event with Beyonce and now in the abortion speech, was that she would do Rogan while you're there, because Trump is going to Austin to do this.
I don't think Rogan... Rogan doesn't do road games.You come to his house to do it.When you're the largest podcast in the world, you do that.We would get on a fucking Greyhound bus to interview someone, but... But not if you're Joe Rogan.I don't know.
I don't know whether he was unwilling to do it or they couldn't come to an agreement on timing or what it would look like.Maybe the campaign didn't want to spend You know, to go to Austin specifically to spend hours and hours doing this interview.
I mean, for her, it's- Maybe she's gonna surprise Trump.She's gonna show up.
That would be very- Jim Hogan loves professional wrestling, and so her coming in, like busting through the door like Macho Man Savage.Let's do the debate right now.Right here.Debate me.Debate me, coward.She is in Texas at the same time.
I mean, that would be an October surprise, people.
And also it's like, this is the final week.Do the big rallies, get everyone excited.Let's just like, you know, drive it home here.Okay.
When we come back from the break, Texas Congressman Colin Allred talks with Tommy about beating Ted Cruz and Kamala Harris's big visit to Houston tonight.Before we do that, look, friend of the pod subscription, uh, 25% off.
new annual subscriptions right now through Election Day, so take advantage of that.That's $30 in savings.You'll be supporting a progressive independent media company at a time when we could use progressive independent media companies.
You'll get ad-free episodes of Pod Save America, subscription-exclusive shows like Dan's Polar Coaster, and lots more.You can subscribe now at krooker.com slash friends or through the pod save America feed on Apple podcasts.
If you're already a monthly subscriber, you can easily upgrade to an annual plan and new subscribers can join in less than a minute.But enough about us.This is much more important.We got two weekends left before election day.
Are you helping out this weekend? Ask yourself, are you?Have you signed up?The time is now.It's easy to figure out how to get to where you're needed for the day, for the weekend, for the final few days.Just go to votesaveamerica.com slash travel.
Also, we are asking you to reach out to three people you know in the battleground states to make sure they're voting. VSA has tools for that too.Three people.Do it.Go through your contacts.
If you want to do more than three, do more than three and tell us all about it.Post it, tell your friends you're doing it, and get them to do it.If everyone gets three friends, three people they know in battleground states to vote,
Kamala Harris wins.We can all rest easy.Early voting is underway.As you get ready to vote, you can also use VSA's Build Your Own Ballot tool.It's going to help you figure out how you want to vote on every line of your ballot.
We all get those texts from our friends on election day morning asking about the ballot initiatives here in California.Do everyone a favor and get informed at votesaveamerica.com.Just plug in your address and it's all right there.
When we come back, call in all red.
Joining us today is the man we all believe is going to finally defeat Ted Cruz and become the next U.S.Senator from Texas, Representative Colin Allred.Congressman, it's great to see you.Welcome back. Yeah, thanks for having me on, Tommy.
I appreciate you.It's great to talk to you, as always.So we're just a couple weeks out from the election.The polls have you within single digits of Ted Cruz.It's very close this year.How does a Democrat win in Texas in a presidential year?
Are you focused on sort of base turnout at this point?Are you thinking about getting voters to split their ticket and go, you know, Trump all red?How are you thinking about winning?
Yeah, well, you know, it's just a different race than the presidential ticket.And I think Texans see it that way.And I'm a different candidate, obviously.And Ted Cruz is, too.
You know, this is somebody who went to Cancun when we needed him most, who is responsible for taking down a border bill, who's responsible for the abortion ban that we have here in Texas, and who has spent his time for 12 years pitting Texans against each other.
And so, you know, as a fourth-generation Texan, somebody who was raised by a single mom in Dallas, was captain of the football team at Baylor, trained for the draft in Houston, his family's from Brownsville, I think I have a pretty good take on who we are as Texans.
And the thing is that Ted Cruz is just too small for our state.And his vision is too small.His view for what we can be is too small.We're a state of big ideas, of getting big things done.That's what I've done in my time in Congress.
I know that obviously the presidential race is going at the same time, but they are two very distinct decisions, and I think that's what we're going to see on November 5th.
You recently had the joy of debating Ted Cruz.I just watched it.You worked him over pretty hard.Here's a little taste of that debate for the listeners.We did a super cut.
But time and again, Senator Cruz treats our border communities like he's going on some kind of a safari.He comes down, he puts on his outdoor clothes, he tries to look tough, and he goes back to Washington and does nothing to help.
Because IVF didn't need protecting until he got his way of going after it. No one was thinking that we needed to protect IVF.
So to every Texas woman at home and every Texas family watching this, understand that when Ted Cruz says he's pro-life, he doesn't mean yours.You can't be for the mob on January 6th and for the officers.You can't.And it's not funny.
Because you're a threat to democracy.
That was satisfying for me to listen to.Was it satisfying for you on stage, or did you secretly want to line him up and do a little Oklahoma drill for old times' sake?
Yeah, I've had a lot of Texans who've told me that they thought they wish that I had done that.But listen, he's supposed to be the champion debater, right?He was the Princeton debate team.I was just a football player.
But I think we roughed him up pretty good there.And honestly, it's just stuff that he's done. you know, and his record is indefensible.
And that he's tried to now in an election year, completely change his entire personality for 12 years, he's been like this proud extremist.And, you know, you almost would respect it more if you just ran on that, right.
But instead to try and pretend like as he was in the debate, you know, for example, that he wants to defend IVF, nope. you're responsible for why IVF is at risk, right?
Or to talk, when we were talking about January 6th, that was one where I really, it made me angry when he started laughing during my answer, because there was a mob on the 6th, and it did storm the Capitol, and it came there because of folks like Ted Cruz who lied
and said the election was stolen, who objected to the results in Arizona, who was the architect of the plan to overturn that election, and when that mob came and when I took off my suit jacket and was ready to defend my colleagues on the House floor, he was hiding in a supply closet.
And so this brings me back to my point.He's too small for Texas.And I felt that way in the debate.He was shouting, as he always does.It kind of looked like he was pretty uncomfortable.And it was a lot of fun for me.
And I don't think it was very fun for a lot of Texans, though, to have to listen to him for an hour.
No, it's not fun at all.One thing about debates, Michelle Obama famously said, when they go low, we go high.But in football, the low man wins.What do you make of that?
That's right.Well, listen, I was not going to go in there and not call him out on his nonsense. And I don't think that's being negative.
It's just what he's been doing.No, you just literally talked about his record.There's been a lot of consternation among Democrats, myself included, about, you know, losing badly with young men.
You and I talked about this challenge a year ago when you were here in L.A.Have you seen that slippage in your race?And how have you been trying to convince younger men that the Democratic Party understands them and cares about them?
Yeah, well, listen, it's been a focus of mine.And, you know, I think it's something that we do have to talk about and focus on.
You have to have policies that are, you know, kind of geared towards young men, which I think is often around opportunity, around making sure that folks have a chance to take care of their families, that when we're talking about the economy, that we're talking about building an economy where
you know, work is respected and rewarded.But then also there's, I think, you know, kind of a longing for an authenticity. and somebody who understands what young men are going through and that can speak to that with some authenticity.
I think Coach Walz, for example, does that.And I think for me, with my background, I try and do that as well, to say, listen, I played football in college, in the NFL.I spent my career
you know, working in these contexts where we have to find a way as men to get things done and to put aside our differences and to work on a team and to accomplish a goal and to show leadership and to show that there's something larger than yourself and to be a part of an effort, you know, that is something larger than yourself.
And that, I think, is something that has helped.
But I also think that there is a very shallow, very weak version of masculinity that folks like Ted Cruz try to pitch, which is one that's based on fear of women doing well, or fear or resentment of someone else doing well, and then trying to appeal to these kind of most negative instincts.
And so we have to compete with that.But I don't think we compete with it by being who they are.I think we compete with it by presenting a more positive vision of what we can be.
Yeah, agreed.We're recording this on Wednesday, October 23rd.Vice President Kamala Harris is coming to Texas in two days on Friday for an event focused on abortion and reproductive health care.
Normally the, you know, the Democratic presidential nominee doesn't campaign in Texas this close to election day.Why do you think she's making this trip now?And what do you expect that you guys will talk about?
Well, because what's happening in Texas with this abortion ban is nothing short of a tragedy.And it is Ted Cruz's fault.
And we have all of these harrowing stories that folks saw at the DNC, that they see in commercials around the country, but many of them are my friends.They're Texas women.
They're these Texas women who've come forward and used, as you know, Tommy, one of the most difficult moments in their life They've taken that grief and that anger that they felt about it, and they've turned it into action, and they are inspiring.
They inspire me every single day.
We did an event last night with Connie Britton and with Lauren Miller, who is a friend of mine, an eight-generation Texan who had to leave the state to get the care she needed, and Kate Cox, who has become basically, at this point, a national figure.
Kate's a good friend of mine as well.We did that last night, talking about this.And so that's what we're going to be doing, is talking about on the national stage what has happened in Texas, how folks like Ted Cruz want to do this around the country.
And I think it's important that Texas women and Texas stories are told on that stage.
Yeah, I think I think it's really important.I commend you and I commend the vice president for talking about this as someone who my wife and I experienced a lot of pregnancy loss including a stillborn baby at six months.
And if someone had told us, you know to go home and wait a while and you know, see if she met some threshold for this being a life-threatening illness.I think I would have walked out of that hospital room in handcuffs because
You know, you don't want to hear someone put your spouse in a position like that.Switching gears, I was just watching Kamala Harris before we came in.
She was doing a press statement about recent comments by John Kelly, who's the four-star general who later worked as Trump's chief of staff, who said Trump, quote, falls into the definition of a fascist.
That comes after Mark Milley, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs under Trump and then Biden, told Bob Woodward that Trump was, quote, fascist to the core.Now, I understand.I mean, I sit in a million focus groups and read a lot of polls.
And I know voters care about the basics, paying their bills, access to health care, social security.But it's also chilling to your core to hear the people closest to Trump, who worked with him day in and day out, talk about him this way.
How do you think Democrats, what do we do with this information?Should it be part of our day-to-day message, or is this a distraction from, you know, economic issues and abortion?How are you thinking about it?
Well, certainly with Ted Cruz, I talk about January 6th, and I talk about what his role was in that.I talk about how he was hiding when the mob came, because he was.
And I also say that I'm glad he was safe that day, and that this election is his accountability, right? And to me, we have to talk about all of it.And voters are incredibly complicated.I was campaigning here with Liz Cheney in Dallas.
And Liz is involved in this race because she knows that Ted Cruz is a threat to democracy.And she and I were already friends, but we formed and we really forged a closer relationship on January 6th and the days thereafter.
because of her clear-eyed view that we had to have a response to this and accountability for it.And so to me, this election is about that.It's about a lot of things.It's about freedom, restoring women's right to choose, particularly here in Texas.
It's about opportunity and who has a better plan to make sure that you and your family can get ahead. You know, we know that costs are still too high.
As somebody who was raised by a single mother who struggled growing up here in Dallas, I'm laser-focused on that.You think the guy who goes to Cancun and Ted Cruz is, you know, is that the Ritz-Carlton?I don't think so, right?
And it's also about accountability.And I think it's also about the threat that we face that if we have, you know, someone who doesn't respect our Constitution in positions of high office. And so I do think that we have to talk about it all.
And I don't think that you can ignore it.I also certainly don't think that it can be the only pitch, right?It has to be everything.
Yeah.Listen, my New England Patriots stink, but that does not stop me from talking about football.Football is playing a fun and bigger role in this year's election.
So Governor Tim Walz, the vice presidential nominee, was a defensive coordinator for a state champion high school team in Minnesota.When I interviewed him back in February here in the office, I said, what defense did he run?
He told me he ran a 4-4 defense.His guys were focused on reading guards.
For non-football fans out there, a 4-4 defense is a type of alignment where you have four down linemen, like the big boys in the three-point stance, and then four linebackers, which are the slightly less big guys who are faster than the position Colin played in the NFL.
and in college, Max Brown, a former QB for USC in Pittsburgh, turned sports commentator, saw a clip of that interview, and he threw down the gauntlet for how he would torch Tim Walz's defense.Let's listen to a little clip of that.
Tim, Tim, Tim, here's how we're gonna put you in a blunder.In your 4-4 defense, you put your corners in an absolute bind.You're packing the box, we're gonna RPO your ass right from the jump.Fake the run here.
This linebacker on the outside, he cannot be right.He plays the run, we'll kick it out to the bubble by the F. He plays the F on the bubble, we're gonna slant right behind him.
We're gonna run this until we get tired, and then from there, we're going four verts.So you got two linebackers right here trying to run with my guys vertically in the slot with a single high safety.
We are going to work these seams, find the mismatch, and exploit it all day long.
OK, that's just part of it.It was a great video.Colin, you played in the NFL.You know defense.You're the captain, right, of the Baylor team?Yeah, yeah.What halftime adjustments would you make to max his scheme there?How are we pushing back?
OK, so here's the thing. In the NFL, we match personnel, okay?So what Max is talking about, you wouldn't have a 4-4 defense on the field when you got three receivers on the offense, right?
You wouldn't have four linebackers out there.
We'd be in a nickel, right?So we gotta adjust to go to nickel.What's a nickel?For everybody listening, okay? It's four down linemen, two linebackers, five DBs.So the DBs are the fast guys.And if nickel's not working, then we'll get into a dime.
We'll have one linebacker and six DBs.But you know what?When we're in that nickel, we're going to blitz the heck out of you.We're going to disguise the blitz.You're never going to know what we're in.
And on one side of the field, we're going to be in one coverage.And on the other side of the field, we're going to be in a different coverage.So you have two different reads.And so your young quarterback is not going to know what's happening.
And by the time he figures it out, we're going to hit him. And that's how we're gonna make sure we put you in a blender.
That's right, Max.We're gonna blitz your ass all day long, buddy.I hope you see this on social media and respond.One more football question.Dallas Cowboys are 3-3.Is Dak Prescott still the guy?
Dak's the guy, that's not the issue.Quite honestly, they gotta stop the run.And as a linebacker, I always come back to the trenches.If you can't stop the run and run the ball, ultimately you're gonna get exposed.So it's not on Dak.
The quarterbacks get too much credit, and they get too much of the blame.So sometimes you gotta have big boys in the trenches who are moving people around, and that's really how you win football games.
And you got some injuries, right?I mean, Micah Parsons has been out.He's one of the best athletes on the field in any game.I think he might be the second coming of Lawrence Taylor, yeah, that's right. He really is one of those guys.
Him and Aiden Hutchinson, you look at them and their motor on the field, and they do not slow down for a single second of any snap.And they're also so fast.I mean, these guys are like 6'4", 280.They're dropping in coverage.
They're doing everything on the field.
Watt's out there getting interceptions and taking them back for touchdowns.I was at the Steelers facility once last year, two years ago.T.J.Watt walked by me, and I was like, that's not a person.That is not a species of human I've ever seen.
A last dumb question for you.Two questions, one dumb, one not.Do you think you have the fastest 40 time in Congress?
Huh.You know, when my friend Anthony Gonzalez, who was a wide receiver for Ohio State and Indy was there, I did not because he ran, I think, 4-4 and he was first round pick.But he's gone now, so I think I probably do.
4'4", your feet are not touching the ground, you're basically flying.Last question, listen, if people are listening, they might not be from Texas, but they're like, we gotta get rid of Ted Cruz, Colin seems like a great guy, I want him in the U.S.
Senate, what do they do to help you out?Oh, thanks, Tommy.
Listen, this is incredibly close, and I want everybody to drop all of your scar tissue that you might have around Texas.This is a race that we're gonna win, but we need help, and I hope folks will go to colinallred.com and get involved.
Ted Cruz is our problem in Texas, but even if you're not in Texas, he's your problem too.And we can beat him here.And when we do, it's gonna be a win for our state and for our country.So go to ColinAllred.com and get involved.
Beautiful.Donate, volunteer your time, do what you can.We got a couple weeks left, folks.We have agency here.We can make a difference in these elections.These things are won or lost at the margins, half a percent here, a couple dollars there.
So chip in, do what you can.And thank you for joining the show.Yeah, thanks, Tommy.Appreciate you.
That's our show for today.Dan will be back in the feed with another bonus PSA on Sunday morning.Dan, what can you tell us about the latest Polar Coaster?
Talking to David Binder, who heads up polling and research for the Harris campaign.He is a longtime friend of ours, did focus groups on both Obama campaigns, is one of the smartest guys in the business.
So I'm very excited to hear what he has to say about how this campaign is going to shape up over the next seven days.And because one interview is not enough, we are talking to Ron Brownstein about how
demographics have shifted in the battleground states and what that could mean for election day.
I am going to listen to that episode the second it drops, which is probably just past midnight, when I'll be up because I still don't sleep anymore.I'll be trying to listen to that while some New York Times Siena poll drops and ruins our Sunday.
I think Nate Cohn's gonna ruin next Sunday, not this Sunday.That's my guess.
Well, Ann Seltzer's already ready to ruin next Sunday, because that's usually when the last Des Moines Register poll comes out.
What am I falling for?The thing is, you're so worried about this.You brought this up to me three days ago, three days.And I was like, oh, the polls coming out today.No, it's hypothetically coming out in four days after you brought it up to me.
They poll in a non-battleground state.
Can't wait, can't wait.All right, everyone, have a good weekend.Go volunteer, go help out.Let's win this thing.We'll talk to you next week.Bye, everyone.
If you want to get ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and more, consider joining our Friends of the Pod subscription community at cricket.com slash friends.
And if you're already doomscrolling, don't forget to follow us at Podsafe America on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube for access to full episodes, bonus content, and more.
Plus, if you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review to help boost this episode, or spice up the group chat by sharing it with friends, family, or randos you want in on this conversation.
Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.Our producers are David Toledo and Saul Rubin.Our associate producer is Farah Safari.Reed Cherlin is our executive editor and Adrian Hill is our executive producer.
The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Writing support by Hallie Kiefer.Madeline Herringer is our Head of News and Programming.
Matt DeGroat is our Head of Production.Andy Taft is our Executive Assistant.Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Hayley Jones, Phoebe Bradford, Joseph Dutra, Ben Hethcote, Mia Kelman, Molly Lobel, Kiril Pelaviv, and David Toles.
