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Welcome to the Big Suey, presented by DraftKings.Why are you listening to this show?The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Levitard podcast.I'm sorry, I'm not gonna apologize for that.
In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there.That hasn't happened to you guys?I've done it.
And now, here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face, and the habitual liar.
There is all sorts of animal stuff that I want to get to.Always grateful for Ron McGill's time and flexibility.He joins us just about every week.It was supposed to be earlier this week, but we're happy to have him on a Friday.
Thank you, Ron, for always making yourself available to our show and to our listeners.We've got some video to play for you in a second, but before we do that, I want to include you on a couple of conversations we were having before you got here.
I like that there's a sense of anarchy among the producers who now work beneath and below and for Billy.They have now found video of Billy talking about Bob Costas in a way that may have made Bob Costas insane and may have gotten back to Bob Costas.
So let's hear that sound for a second and see if Ron McGill has a verdict here on whether Bob Costas should or shouldn't be mad at Billy Gill. Calling Bob Costas Bobby.
I'm sure he was called Bobby in grade school.If anything, I'm reaching out to him as a friend, I would say.
So 65 years ago, you're referring to him as when what he went is seven years old instead of 72.
Yeah, you don't think actually, you know what, if we're going to be honest, Bob Costas, when he was a child, made people call him Robert, right?Yeah.Like for sure.Like Robert Q. Costas or whatever his middle name is.One hundred percent.
He never wanted to be Bobby.I'm surprised he even allows people to call him Bob.
Ron, what are your thoughts there?
Don't ever call me Ronnie.My Ronald.No, that's even worse.Wow.It's just Ron.No Ronald and no Ron.Ronnie was what my parents called me when I was like I said, six years old.That was about it.
Is there an age in general where people cannot be called Ronnie anymore?
Or is this just a- Yeah, I think once you're in the fourth, fifth, sixth grade, that's no more Ronnie.
Ronnie Cykli would like a word.
I don't, that's a different Ronnie.That's R-O-N-N-Y.My Ronnie is R-O-N-N-I-E.No, no, sorry.
What's the distinction there?The distinction is that Ronnie Cykli, that name is more of a Greek derivative than my name.
Ronnie Brown would like a word. Well, what if I called you Ronnie, but I was calling you NNY Ronnie and not NNIE Ronnie?Then you'd be calling me the wrong name, wouldn't you?Ron, can I ask you a question in the spirit of Halloween?
What animal is the, now, not one that can naturally camouflage, what animal is the best at disguising itself potentially for attacking prey?Like what animal maybe can make itself at the smallest or blends in the best without a natural camouflage?
Octopus.Octopus.For sure.No question.
When will Billy change his name to Bill?Is there an age when Billy Gill will become Bill?
I mean, here you can ask.He's not a Bill though, Dan.
I'm not a Bill guy.I'm Billy.
He doesn't look like a Bill to me either.He's a Billy.Thank you, I guess.
Thank you, Billy.Hold on a sec.Wait a minute.Hold on.Is that an IE or NNY situation?What are we doing here, Ron?
I'm looking at the IE.No, no. No.Why?Why?Why?Billie I.E.is for Billie Jean King.Billie Eilish.
Yeah, exactly.Regardless, Billy, you're going to be Billy at 80.Billy will never become Bill.
I mean, I don't I don't just live my life a quarter of a mile at a time.What am I thinking about that?
Would they call you Uncle Bill or Uncle Billy?
They, Billy, they call me like Dio Billy.I'm fine with that, I like it.What's wrong?There you go, well you're good with that.Why am I gonna be ashamed of my name?I don't understand.
I'm not saying to be ashamed of it.I think some people evolve a bit, you know, some people.
You see, but like, this is not, the way you're phrasing that, Ronnie, is you know what you're doing.You're not trying to be actually nice here.
And I see that grin on your face, and I see that you left in your Dracula teeth from last night, and a little bit of blood on your tongue, and you're still feeling frisky about what you were up to last night.
Ah, Billy, all I'm saying is that I could never imagine Bob Costas as Bobby Costas.Same!That's exactly what I said.
You call Pat Riley, Patty Riley?No, I call him the Godfather, because if you don't, you're blackballed in this town. Uh-oh, now you're gonna feud with him too?I didn't, you see, I didn't know such a thing.
I'm here talking to Ron about animals camouflaging and you're then bringing up old clips from weeks and months ago and it's a whole thing.Someone brings up Pat Riley.We're just talking about Halloween costumes and animals.That's all I'm here for.
I'm here for a good time.Bill, you know what?Not a long time, a good time.
Bill, you know what's gonna happen now?We're gonna have a billboard across in the Heat Arena.
It's called like please don't godfather in air quotes And it's good that one we could actually do because all we have to do is spray-paint a sheet and hang it over this side Right, why did I say that because now that's we should think we should see Ron Did you go to the roncula well again last night?
No, no roncula is dead, right?
I was gonna say I Stabbed you with a steak roncula is dead.Why are you in the heart silver bullet in the head?He's dead.Well.What are we up to now?Oh? We're up to just Ron McGill, you know, Ron, that's it.That's Ron.
Wait, wait, wait.Dan didn't dress up?Ron didn't dress up?
What's going on with you?Wait, Dan didn't dress up?Billy, Dan didn't dress up yesterday.Why?At night, at night you dressed up.I don't like to dress up.Don't bullshit a bullshitter.Gaslighting us, Dan!
It was pretty good. Dan the luchador was pretty good.
I lost a lot of grid of death punishments and I paid my bills unlike people around here I need to get something before we leave here today legislated by you guys on a punishment for Lucy because she can't just not do a fine like that.Very defiant.
Like that's not allowed and so now I've got a problem with corporate because I want to take it out of her check like you're not allowed.
Well that seems I was on that email and that didn't go over well.That email?What do you mean that email?Wait, what do you mean that email?
We will get to that in a second.We will get a ruling on that in a second.Don't let me leave here without getting that ruling.But the breaking news of Ronkula, the most sensual of McGill characters,
With permission to be a debaucherous, gluttonous, sensual being, Ronkula has been a hit at parties for 15 years that you steal and rob from your wife and your wife's day because you're so me, me, me maximum about being Ronkula.
Does Ronkula die a death of ego because you've made Halloween about you for 15 years?You done?
See what I'm saying?He's feisty today.Everybody's feisty this week.
Why is Ronkula dead?What happened?You're breaking giant news there.
Well, you know, Ronkula, first of all, doesn't go bald.Ronkula doesn't have a pot belly.Ronkula doesn't get old.Ron McGill does.
I think that there's a possibility of an evolution here.I think you said that I wouldn't evolve.I think there's an evolution here because you can very well bring Roncula back, but now it's a different Roncula because it's a zombie Roncula.
So you're now a zombie vampire when you come back, hop on the Peloton, do a couple classes with Kendal Toole or whatever, right?And then you come back, you lose the belly and boom, Roncula, vampire.
The purpose of Rancula was not to be a zombie.The purpose of Rancula was the prince of darkness.The lover of the night.Bite the necks. Yeah, there you go.There's nothing sexier than a woman's neck, especially the back of her neck.
The back of a woman's neck, to me, is just like... Me and Ron.There's a sense there.There's just an aura about a woman in the back of her neck.Ron, fist me.
All right.Enough, enough.Everybody, let's all... Oh, yeah.
No, please.Well, how's your uncle?
After he threatened us with his balls, that's what we're doing?That's what we're doing as a show.Ron, I've got some video here to play for you, but I also don't want to leave here today without playing the Feisty Tua sound.
We have not talked enough about what's going on locally with sports the last couple of days.What is going on, Chris Cody?Why do you love this sound from Feisty Tua so much?Because I've not heard the sound yet.
Now this is Tua being asked about the Dolphins.One of their biggest issues all year has been snaps on shotguns.And whether Tua's looking away, the other quarterback's looking away, the snapper just snapping it, the quarterback's unable to catch it.
It's been an issue all year.And the media asking Tua, he had a bad one last week.So Tua's asked here about catching snaps, and he kind of, for some reason, goes after fans.
I have pretty good vision.I have pretty good hands. I mean, I'd like to see a lot of other people go in the back there and try to catch that ball too.
I mean, you've seen it wasn't, it wasn't Brew's best and Brew knows he can get it better, but it wasn't my best as well.
But I'm just saying to give perspective, you know, it's not as easy as what it looked like sitting down on your couch eating chips.
Oh, what's this?Oh, geez.Why is it coming after me?Hey, hey, Tua, catch the ball.You said you have good hands.It's what you started the clip with.And you're blaming your center?I mean, who is just shilling out play?
It was the center, not his best day.Not my best day either.But hey, you enjoy those chips?I do enjoy those chips.And you know what I see when I eat these chips?I see shitty football.That's what I see.Get it together, Tua.No, this is ridiculous.
I'm a Tua supporter.This is ridiculous.That's a ridiculous take from him.Hey, Tua. I'll eat less chips, you catch the ball.Deal?This Sunday.We'll see if it happens.
Wait a minute, that's not a deal.You will not eat less chips.
I will.This Sunday.For one Sunday.I don't believe you.For one Sunday.I don't believe you.Because I got some sour cream and cheddar ruffles waiting for me. I'm only going to go in for like three handfuls.The orange bag.
I'm only going in for three handfuls.All right, less chips for me.Catch the damn ball, Tua.How about that?You know what?Don't blame your center.
I'm going to side with Chris Cody on this.And Tua, don't chip shame me when you guys can't win a playoff game.Thank you.Never mind the chip.Thank you.
Think about the chips that I wouldn't have eaten if I was just like, I'm not eating chips till they win a playoff game.I wouldn't have had a chip since I was eight.
Why is he chip shaming us for loving chips?Why?Well, I will not have him punish us for being people who love chips.Like what?We can't criticize the game while eating chips.We've got to do one or the other.
You know what?He's right.No chips till ships.No chips till ships.No chips till ships.No chips.
Till, who said it, Jeremy?Damn it!That's a good band, Tuya.Just Tuya.You could just serenade Tuya.Ron, are you mad at the Dolphins?
I'm disappointed in the Dolphins.I keep having this great hope and great things that are going to happen.It's just disappointment after disappointment.Gosh, I came here in 72.That's when I moved to Miami.I got to meet those guys.
You got to feel that.Even when we weren't going to the Super Bowl, you still had great games.You had great competitors. I guess I'm old and I'm spoiled.You know, the Marino days were very inspiring.There were some great things there.
And we got a great team.We got great talent.They're just not able to seem to mesh at the right time.And that's just frustrating.As a fan, as a person who just, you know, bleeds Miami, it's very frustrating for me.
Let me remind the people this segment is presented by LinkedIn Jobs.Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash prep.Terms and conditions apply.
Let's get to some video here with Ron McGill.Ron, can you give me some play by play here on a video I saw?I have not seen this kind of animal before and somebody was pointing out.
Why is it that we are looking for the mysterious Bigfoot when this is a real creature that exists in the wild?Do some play by play for us here on what you're watching.Okay.
Oh, we're looking at, oh, big male orangutan.Yeah, big cheek pads.You see those cheek pads?This is the largest arboreal animal in the world, even though this guy's down.He spots you.He sees him go, who is this?Who's this in my jungle?
Don't get close to me.This is my jungle.And he holds those cheek pads.That's something that dominant males will get, not the females.Oh, OK, if you want to give me gifts, you can stay.OK, stay, get your pictures, get a little more gifts.
And that's what he's doing.He's showing his size. From fingertip to fingertip, the wingspan on that animal is over eight feet.They can grow to over 300 pounds.They make this great guttural sound.
They kind of go... You got to be a little more discerning with just eating the first thing tossed to you though, no?It's like what I learned with Halloween candy last night.Someone tossed the orangutan something, he just ate it right away.
Well, you know what he's a finely tuned eating machine So he's gonna he's asking for basically a toll there if you're gonna pass by here You're gonna get a shot at me.
There's a there's a payment that needs to be made make the payment and you're okay And I say, okay, here's the payment.I'm gonna throw the payment He gets his payment and he's okay get the pictures and you get to be on the leopard show.
Ron, have you ever heard of there was an orangutan named Fu Manchu back in the day at a zoo that smuggled wire in its mouth and then used it to open the lock and then did it every single day because the zookeepers did not realize that the orangutan had the wire in its mouth?
Yeah, that's a very famous story about that orangutan.We've seen, listen, I've seen the orangutans here do that with sticks.
You know, they'll take sticks, they'll take blades of grass because they see the keepers put the key in there and they're trying to replicate that motion and think it's going to work.Fortunately, it doesn't work with sticks or blades of grass.
But this orangutan actually seemed to be able to learn to pick the lock with a wire, which is better than most humans could do.
And not only that, but then when they confiscated the wire, it bribed other orangutans to give up their wire that they found. So I didn't hear that.
That's taken it to a whole other level.But I wouldn't put it past them.
They're very intelligent animals.Right.So that was my question.Was that abnormally intelligent behavior by that orangutan?Or is that like, no, they're all pretty smart.
No, it's just like humans.That's an abnormally intelligent behavior, learned behavior that it picked up.You know, listen, I couldn't do
advanced trigonometry now if you paid me and there's you know 12 year olds that can run circles around me so there are certain people that are smarter in certain other areas same thing with animals there are certain animals that are definitely smarter than others as individuals i feel like we have like a sliding scale when it comes to intelligence right because like if i as a human tried to stick a blade of grass in a lock you would say you're dumb but here we are we're like that animal is so smart and then even you were like very nice you're like yeah he's a he's a finely tuned eating machine which for me was just like he's gonna eat anything you give him
That's not true.That's not true.They learn what not to eat in the jungle.Now, he may eat anything you give him as far as processed foods, anything with sugar that could be bad for him, just like you give it to a kid.
But an orangutan in the jungle knows what plants to eat, what fruits to eat, and what fruits and plants not to eat.They're taught that by their parents as they're growing up, that these are toxic, these are not toxic, this is the time to eat this.
It's incredible the type of knowledge that's passed down from generation to generation.
How do they teach them that?Do they just like, they knock it out of their hands?Like, how do they know this is not something that you eat?
They will do that.I have seen them do that.I have seen, you know, young orangs reach, young orangs reach for something that is toxic and you see the mother take it away.Okay.In the wild.So they, they will do that.
It's not, it's not as obvious as it would be like, you know, one of our parents, you know, it's a very subtle movement sometimes, but these subtle movements, these subtle gestures that the parents make, are picked up very quickly by the offspring.
Ron, you pride yourself on being somebody who is a protector.What is the most moved you've been by seeing a parent protect in the wild?
That's easy.That's the pride of the lion.That's quasi.Even though I was here at the zoo, but it's the same principle.I've seen it in the wild where mothers, you know, here we had this female lioness who was probably 150 pounds less than the male.
A male could have killed her in a heartbeat.This male went after her cub and she went after that male in such a rage, such a fury, that that male urinated all over himself and ran away because he was about to get his ass kicked by this female.
Never screw with a mother.I mean, that's just something that I learned in the animal kingdom.The power of being a mother is so incredibly strong.And, you know, she saved that cub's life.He was going to kill that cub if she was not there.
like I said if you look at that from the outside looking and you see a Massive lion big mane hundred pounds heavier than this female and this female come in there and basically scare the urine out of them It's pretty impressive.
Was he trying to kill the cub to eat it or just because he's Trying to kill the cub because it wasn't his cub It wasn't his cub instinctively lions will kill cubs that are not theirs for a couple of reasons They want to make sure only their genes are passed on to the next generation But also by killing the cub the mother starts to lactate that starts to cycle again so he can breed her
Let's play another video here for Ron McGill.Ron, give us some play-by-play here on a bear jumping between wires here on a wired fence.
Okay.Oh, geez!Oh, that's serious.That's a grizzly coming at you.Yeah, that grizzly's not playing.Okay, he's not playing.
So it doesn't seem to be affected by what looks like barbed wire fencing?
Did you see the cubs?Did you see the cubs?That's why she came at him.At the very beginning, you see the cubs run away.She's protecting her cubs.This is just what I was talking about.This power to the cubs.Oh, these are the cubs to the right there.
No, she said, don't get near my cubs.She's coming through that wire.She'll come through a brick wall if she has to, if she thinks there's a threat to her cubs.
She's abandoning her kids here.I mean, geez, wouldn't you stay with the kids and protect them?If my daughter was there, I would have my arm around my daughter and I'd be like, get away.
I wouldn't leave my daughter and just start sprinting away and just like... Bad parenting.
This is what's called proactive protection.Okay.When you come at something that fast with that kind of aggression, it doesn't have time to think, okay, I'm going to get those kids.It's like, and you run away.
You see, that's the instinct that that mother has.Be proactive, be offensive before you have to be defensive.
In what world would a human being then raise their arms with that happening and say, hey bear, and then hope that that like, then disarms the bear.It's so scary to see a bear run at you, Ron.
Yep, Billy, Billy, I think I've said this many times.With a black bear, Florida black bear, that's what you would do with a grizzly bear, you'd have a little bit more of an issue with any bear with cubs, you're probably going to be in bad shape.
Okay. There's no all black and white on this.You'll see that there's a great video online.I'm sure you guys have seen it already with this grizzly coming at these photographers.He's got no cubs, but he's coming at him just to try to scare them.
And the photographers keep their ground.And at the very last second, this massive grizzly turns away because he's going why aren't these people running away?Now listen, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna kid you.
that took some major testicles to keep standing your ground while there's grizzlies coming at you full ground but watch the video look it up you guys i'm sure there's a whizzes at finding that stuff there's this grizzly just coming right at these people in a like open riverbed and all of a sudden they don't move they don't run and that bear at the last second turns away like damn why didn't they run away
Prove my point.What are you doing?
What are you doing, Cody?You mentioned major testicles, so I'm going for humor.Oh, jeez.Oh, jeez.That was awful.
Take care, guys.Bye-bye. No, he alleges that they do not, but it's just stop showing off there.Look, you you're just as bad as him.Can I have the show back, please?
This bear ran right at the photographer and then the last minute just jukes away.And then then the photographer gets bold and runs after the bear.Oh, my God, that's crazy.Dude, you got lucky that bear didn't kill you.
Why are we playing with fire here?
I like I like the turning of the tables.I like that.You know what? Gone on the offensive.The best defense is a good offense.
We're about to have on Jim Trotter.Jim Trotter settled his lawsuit with the NFL as a writer who stands up for some causes and evidently, I don't know if you've seen this story, but he wrote a column for The Athletic
And I think I have this story right.
He didn't like how it is that it was edited, even though it was a column about basically what happens on a Monday night telecast when you come on and you troll the audience by wearing a MAGA hat and then run off into the shadows and don't answer questions.
I've got some questions for him about that column, but as we enter the last few days,
before what promises to be a tumultuous election that will probably last a couple of days at least after that when you've got a presidential candidate who's not going to concede a result if he loses.
We've got LeBron James now, oldest player in the league, responsible basically for 15 to 20 years of coverage that includes the bubble and George Floyd and the places where the NBA was being asked to lead and found it harder to lead in these times than the WNBA.
We enter now the last couple of days of this tumult, and LeBron James, on a social media following that is substantive, has told last-minute voters, and I assume this part is strategic and calculated, somebody who learned how to do Trayvon Martin speaking out in his 30s is now
A decade later, having seen eight years of this particular brand of politics, he's entering the fray with something that might've been made by his team, I think it was made by his team, and is just telling you, here's who LeBron James endorses, or here's what he will not, under any circumstances, endorse.
All right, heck yeah, that's cool.Black guy, that's one of my buddies, we had fun, we carved watermelons together, it was awesome.
No, no, I'm not a racist. They're taking black jobs now.The whole country's going to be like, it'll be like Detroit.A lot of it's about the genes, isn't it?Don't you believe?They're poisoning the blood of our country.Troublemaker.
These are troublemakers.Look.I love the old days, you know?Do you know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this?They'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks.I'd like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you.
Now if you had one really violent day, like one rough hour, and I mean real rough, the word will get out and it will end immediately.But we're going to indemnify police officers and law enforcement from being destroyed by the radical left.
You're changing history, you're changing culture.Of course I hate these people, and let's all hate these people because maybe hate is what we need.
Yeah, I think he did it on his phone.That wasn't his team.Just cut it together.
There are these glasses on, like, oh, this would go really well right here.Cap cut.
You guys don't believe he handled that himself, that he was interested in making an artistic statement on his own?Does it matter whether it's done by him or his marketing team?
No, I mean, I think, yeah, he tells them, hey guys, I want to do something.And then they say, well, how about this?And he says, great.And then he posts it.
I picture they send him like five and he's like, I like this one.He picked the music.Like he chooses, he gets five sent to him.They're all around the same.Hold on.
Roy, you got him in the library of like the royalty free music.Nah, this one's a little too cheerful.Nah, this one's not quite dark enough.That one's dramatic.
That's the one right there. It only hit the four mark on the amount of quotes from Trump there that were exactly quotable by Hitler.So it hit the under for me.Wow.
What happened to that game, Jeremy?
I played it on Because Miami instead because I got afraid of our audience who was telling me I'm not a Jew for supporting Tim Walz.So really good stuff happening on the Internet these days. Few days until the election guys.
You should really register to vote make sure you're out there You realize that we've only got like what two more day two more show days of this and then life is gonna get boring What are we gonna talk about be two days?
Get into it then all the quotes from Trump that are exactly the same as Hitler's We'll do that next week.
I guess you think they're gonna be able to count all those votes on Tuesday.
Yeah Wednesday.It'll be done And surely Trump will then just gracefully concede.
Yeah, just bow out.No giant day of violence or anything.Sure.Giant day of violence.The one he talked about in that clip.
Well, but OK, so Jeremy had a game.Who said it?Hitler or Trump?
Guess what?The answer on all of them was going to be both.I was shocked.I'm tuning in to Because Miami, even though he just spoiled the game.
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That back row is bringing it today.This is the Don Levatar Show with the Stoogads.
There are still people in journalism out here trying to do the good work and fighting the hard fights at a time that it seems people care about that less and less, even outside the playground.
But Jim Trotter has been doing a great job inside of sports for a long time, and he's an award-winning national columnist for The Athletic.
He's a former reporter for NFL media and he settled a lawsuit with them because I'm just gonna say generally it seems like it's difficult sometimes to just do your job when you're Jim Trotter try to do correctly do journalism when you've got a lot of Entities banging around against you that don't allow you to have like some editorial freedom.
So he's joining us now and And I don't know how dangerous it is for him to join us now, because I'm not looking to get you in trouble here, Jim, but I am looking to understand what happened with your column in The Athletic.
It was headlined, when it comes to political expression, does the NFL have double standards?And it's about what happened with Nick Bosa, which I don't think was covered very much.Let's play for everybody the video.Nick Bosa is clearly MAGA.
is proud of it, but not so proud of it that he'll keep answering questions about Maga after doing this after a game the other day.
I'm not going to talk too much about it, but I think it's an important time.
So he's just saying it's an important time, but there's video of him crashing an interview with a MAGA hat.
Yeah, to give people the context, Melissa Stark on Sunday Night Football is in the post-game interview, and he photobombs it, or video bombs it, wearing the MAGA hat.
And you can see him at the beginning of the video put the hat on, and then he walks right in between Melissa Stark and the player she's interviewing, and points to the hat.
And then doesn't want to answer any questions afterwards.So Jim Trotter, thank you for joining us.I'm sorry for how meandering the introduction was, but can you walk us through what's happened with the last couple of days?
Because it seems, I don't know what's factual here, but it seems like the column was edited in a way that you were a little uncomfortable with.But what's true here for you?And thank you for joining us.
No, thank you for having me.I think what I've put out is what I felt at the time.I have to say, was it the right thing to do?Probably not.
But I think what happens, Dan, is that, and speaking only for myself, I think as a Black man and as a journalist, there are times that there are things that are so important that I feel compelled to speak on it.
Because the thing with Donald Trump and this whole MAGA thing is that so many people want to normalize it and so many people want to normalize the behavior.
And the point that I make is that it may be normal to you and it may be a joke to you, as it appeared to be with Nick Bosa, who wouldn't stand 10 toes down and talk about why he supported a certain candidate.
But for me and people who look like me, it is a threat.It is a real threat to our life. in terms of the practices that are being put in place, the policies, and the general attitude.
So I think I got a little frustrated at that moment, and I tweeted out something that I probably shouldn't have tweeted out.And I don't want to get into all of that, because I could be violating the company's policy.
I will just say that I got a little emotional about it.I felt some kind of way about it. And I reacted.The larger point here, which is what I think you want to get at, is talking about the coverage of these things.
And for me, why this column was so important, and why in some ways it's disappointing that more people haven't taken up this discussion, is that the NFL went out of its way after Colin Kaepernick first took a knee to try and take player political expression out of the game, to take it off of the field, I should say.
going so far as doing 2018, two years after Conlon first took a knee, rewriting the anthem policy.And this is after player protests had basically died down.There were only a handful of players who were doing it.
And the NFL went and rewrote the policy.
And what was interesting to me about that is, the night before they voted on that policy change, I had talked to a couple of owners who had told me they weren't going to vote for it, they didn't see any need to, there was no reason to rekindle that fire.
And yet the next day, the vote was 30 to 0 with two abstentions in favor of changing the policy.And I'll never forget, I asked Mark Murphy about that, the Packer CEO, the next day.
And he was pretty clear when he said, we don't want Trump weaponizing our game.And so for me, when Nick Bosa did what he did, the question became, in my mind, is there a double standard within the NFL, meaning
They're trying to take away political expression by black players who are fighting against social injustice, but are okay with Nick Bosa wearing a MAGA hat supporting a candidate whose very beliefs are what these black players were protesting against.
And so if the NFL was going to be silent on that, to me it raised the question of whether they were more comfortable
with a white player supporting a candidate whose beliefs and policies are a threat to these black men more than they are comfortable with these black men protesting against social injustice.And that was the column.
And the NFL would not return my emails or my texts.So I don't know where the NFL stands on that at this point.Hopefully we will get a chance to ask them at some point.But I felt pretty compelled to speak on it.
Jim, I'm curious, what was in the version that you wanted, the director's cut, if you will?
Well, if I can cut you off there just real quick, I mean, because I'm not, it sounds to me, just so that the audience can have all of the context here, whatever it is that happened with Jim before all of this, where he's fighting the NFL, and that's an unpleasant thing.
where he's already gone through a settlement where he's had to fight the NFL.
I want to understand why somebody who's had to fight for several years might get emotional because a column's just being edited and he feels like his words are being changed.
I don't want to speak for you here, but where a writer would get proprietary and get his backup about editing, but now we're getting into the weeds on how it is he does his job.
I'm not trying to figure out that process. Jim has made it clear he doesn't want to get into the process.I just, I'm curious, what was the part that got left out?
Yeah, that's getting into the process.And so I can't really talk about that.Um, what I will say to you is that I just feel really strongly that I feel really strongly
that the things that are happening now are being normalized, and these things are a threat to us.The thing that got me about what Nick Bosa did was the intentionality behind it.This was planned.And he thought it was cute in the moment.
At least it appeared that way.But he didn't have the conviction afterward to stand and speak on it or to be questioned about it.And the thing that was disappointing, too, is I remember when he was drafted.
And he had had all those tweets, MAGA tweets and everything else, and he called Colin Kaepernick a clown and all of those things.And the 49ers drafted him. And I felt it was important to ask him about it.
So I flew up to San Francisco for his post-draft press conference.And I asked him about it.And he expressed contrition.And he said he was going to learn from all of that.
San Francisco was the best place for him to be because he could learn from all these various groups within the city and everything else.And I thought, OK, he's a young man who deserves an opportunity to grow and to learn.
And what I saw on Sunday night was someone who hasn't grown or learned at all.
realizing, not understanding again, that what he is representing or what he is speaking to is a direct threat to even those people in his locker room who don't look like him.And that's the thing I feel like Dan at times
that people are listening, but they're not hearing us when we talk about the importance of this.And that's why I stand down on it, and I keep speaking about it, because it is a threat to my life and the life of people who look like me.
And I'm not going to back off that.I'm not.And what it says to me when the NFL remains silent on this What it says to me is that their pocketbook is more important than my life, and I'm not okay with that.
It's not just you saying it, though.
You've been fighting for this in a way that I imagine has been very uncomfortable the last few years, fighting the NFL, and have since settled because of an assortment of opportunities that I think you're going to use to help people.
Do you want to walk us through how uncomfortable it has been and what baggage you're bringing to writing on these stories when you're doing activism but trying to do it
within an editorial process that's really constrictive because journalism's rigidities aren't allowing you to speak as freely as you can here, and the NFL's leaning on you, and lawyers are leaning on you, and the whole thing seems super unpleasant from where I'm standing, even as people are going to accuse you.
Well, Jim got his money.Jim settled and got out, right, without knowing any of the details of the fight you just fought.
Right.You know, it's funny, when I first filed a lawsuit, there were folks who asked me, what do you want?And I would say to them, I want positive change.So what does positive change look like?
Well, first and foremost, what I wanted was to have diverse representation in the management ranks of the NFL newsroom where I was working at the time.
Again, I think people forget, if you're covering a player population that is 60 to 70 percent black, and you have no black managers in that newsroom, you have no black copy editors on that desk, and you have no full-time black employees on that news desk as news assistants, then how can you fairly cover these black players, coaches, executives, et cetera?
So that was my point there.I want to change there.What I was told is that legally, I could not force the NFL to hire a Black person in management within its newsroom.
I could not force the NFL to have Black people at that decision-making table when they were deciding how players, coaches, and executives would be covered, who would cover them, and what the narrative of the story would be.
So I said, what's the next thing I can do then to make change?
And for me, it was trying to help this next generation that's coming along, to give them the resources that could help them become the journalists of tomorrow to try and hold people like those in power at the NFL Network and other places accountable.
And so in settling this lawsuit, one of the things that has taken place is that I was able to create a foundation.And I call it the Work, Plan, Pray Foundation, after someone who was so instrumental in my career, and that was Junior Seau.
who, when I broke into covering the NFL, took me under his wing to teach me about the mindset of an elite athlete, the culture of the NFL, the culture of a locker room, all those things that are so important to developing relationships to be able to do your job.
Not to give you scoops, and anyone who knows Junior knows he protected the team fiercely, but to help me understand that culture.
And so with this foundation, what we're doing, or what I'm doing, is I'm going to provide monies and resources to this next generation of aspiring sports journalists and sports executives at HBCUs.
And so at the moment, we are strategizing, and I have asked my board of directors, I've asked my advisors, take nothing off the table.
Let's be as creative as we can be to say, how can we have the greatest impact on these young people coming up behind us?
And within hopefully a few months, we'll go through that entire process, and then we will begin to help these young people who are the next generation.
It's quaint.It tells me next to nothing about what your last four years have been like fighting the NFL and being run out of a league or try or it seems like... Can I say this to you, Dan?
It wasn't that it was so much harder on me.To be perfectly frank, the hardest part in this whole process on me was when the Athletic told me I couldn't cover the NFL. after telling me before hiring me that it would not be an issue.
That was the hardest part on me throughout this whole process.Standing up and fighting the NFL, I was comfortable with that.I knew what I was getting into.
What I wasn't comfortable with, what I didn't fully understand, was the impact it would have on those around me.And that's what you have to be sensitive to if you get into this situation.For me personally, It wasn't a problem.It wasn't uncomfortable.
But in terms of I didn't realize I was going to have taken away from me the thing that I had made my name on, which was covering the NFL for three decades, that was the hardest part in this.Fighting the NFL was not hard for me.
Oh, but Jim, I'm asking you about consequences here.Yes, you're fighting for something that's obviously principled and on the right side of history, and of course there are unintended consequences.
You could go into a fight with all sorts of principles and look at one of the consequences.This league that Jim Trotter loves, taught to him by Seau with an appreciation for the accessibility, the accessibility
Seau gave him while dying because of this game for you to be pushed to the fringes of it or have to fight to be a part of it like that's one of the unintended consequences that I would think.I think there'd be more of them than just one.
I can't speak to that, Dan.I can only speak for me.And this was, it was important to me.It remains important to me.
You know, I asked the question during the summer of George Floyd, if we were in a moment or a movement, because you had corporations that were bending over backwards all of a sudden to show that they were sympathetic and willing to listen to the concerns of black people as it relates to social injustice.
And at that time, I had people telling me, no, this is a movement.This is too strong.Look at all the various sports leagues and the corporations who were standing up and who were being receptive to what was being said.
And now I look at it today, and I look at how many things have been rolled back.I look at how Media companies are no longer receptive to that in the way that they were.
Remember, the NFL, when I was working there, in 2018 when I got there, Steve Walsh and I went to them with the idea of a podcast that would focus on issues that related primarily to black coaches, players, and executives, to give a voice to issues that were not being addressed.
We couldn't get approval for it. Two years later, after George Floyd is murdered, the NFL comes to us and says, hey, remember that podcast you guys wanted to do?
Yeah, now they care.But now let's fast forward again.
Yeah, it's all bullshit. Just say it.It's all bullshit.It's all bullshit.
It's performative.It's all bullshit.It was all performative.All bullshit.It's all bullshit.He can't say it out loud because you got to settle the lawsuit and you actually have to help people with what the results of this fight are.
But all of it is bullshit.He's also a lot classier than you are.Yes, he is classier than I am.Jim, thank you for the time.Appreciate the time and the work.
And we'll tell people again, he's doing the important stuff and it's good to see that somebody is still out there doing it.Thank you, sir.Thanks, Jim.
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