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Welcome back to Postmortem.I'm your host, Anne-Marie Green.And this week we are discussing the case of Eileen Seiden, who was brutally murdered at a motel while on a road trip with her two romantic partners.So what really happened in room 15?
Well, let us talk to people who actually visited the room to report on this case.Joining me today are 48 Hours correspondent Peter Van Sant and producers Lauren White and Richie Fetzer.Thank you so much.It's great to sit down with you guys again.
Hi, Anne-Marie.Thank you for having us.Great to be back, Anne-Marie.
And remember, if you haven't listened to the 48 Hours episode yet, you can find the full audio just below this episode in your podcast feed.So go take a listen and then come on back here for our conversation.
In April of 2018, Eileen Seiden was passing through the small town of Apalachicola with her partners, Zach Abel and Christina Araujo.When they decided to make a pit stop at the Sportsman's Lodge Motel, but Aileen would never make it back home.
You visited room 15 where Aileen was killed.What was it like to be there?
I've been in a lot of crime scenes, right?And inside that room, it took me back when I was a kid and watched Psycho for the first time at the Bates Motel.It's disturbing because there ends up being kind of an energy in these rooms.
where you know a battle has taken place, blood has been shed, and a life has been lost.It's just not like walking into a typical room.
It's also a place, it's a very solemn place to go into, knowing all that has happened, and a very sad place, and you feel that vibe.
Yes, and especially it's strange in contrast to the beauty of the property.You know, you've got these peacock roaming around.We're right next to the water.It's really just a lovely, lovely place.
But that room definitely, you know, you went in knowing it was going to be a somber experience, and it was.
Yeah, I always feel going to places, it's always great for us as reporters to actually be where things happened.But especially when it's a crime scene, or we also went to where Eileen's body was found, it always feels like hollowed ground.
You know, you're there to do a job, but it's also, you know, eerie, but also solemn because it reminds you of why we're doing it.
I was surprised that they actually let you into the room because, you know, it's a business and sometimes people don't like that association.They want people to forget that anything bad ever happened there.
Annemarie, I was shocked.You know, we always want to go to the crime scene. A lot of times it's, you know, a house or maybe a public area out in the open.This was an operational motel room.
We thought the chances of actually getting into the room were going to be slim to none.I called the motel owner, Miss Etta, but, you know, you can't say, oh, is room 15 available?Because then she'll know what I'm trying to do.
So I said, you know, my favorite number is 14, and I would love, you know, how about room 15 as well?You know, and 14 really is my favorite number, so I didn't lie.And I said, you know, are those rooms available?
She said, well, 14's available, but 15 isn't.I said, oh, well, you know, 15 actually I really need.I work for 48 hours.And she said, oh, why do you want to do a story on this?It's such a sad case.
I said, it is a truly sad case, but you know, we have found that in the work that we do, going to the crime scenes really helps the audience understand the case better.
And we would be there for a large part of it with the lead detective, Ronnie Jones.And to my amazement, she said, OK, I'm going to move some things around.And she made that room available to us.I tried to book it as an actual room.
She wouldn't let me.I tried to give her a location fee.She wouldn't let me.So she gave us that room for two whole days for free.
But that room actually is being booked.It's booked.
Oh, yeah.Wow. So this area of Florida's Gulf Coast, it's referred to as the Forgotten Coast.But what we learned in this hour is this community has not forgotten Eileen at all.
They didn't know her in life, but they've really worked hard to preserve her memory in death.In your experience, just how unusual is this?
It's very unusual.Generally, when outsiders come into a community and bring some sense of ruin and shame and shock, locals want to forget those people as quick as possible.But the folks out there on the Forgotten Coast are gentle souls.
They live in this part of Florida that is so underdeveloped.It's like what Florida must've been like a hundred years ago, where you have much more of the tropical feel to it.
And instead of shunning her, they embraced her as one of their own, and it was really special.And you guys felt the same way, didn't you?
Oh, definitely.And they put up a memorial to Aileen near where her body was found.And what struck me is it's not like metal or stone or something that would be permanent. basically a poster of Eileen's face.
It says, Franklin County will never forget Eileen.And you had artificial flowers, but sunflowers, which were Eileen's favorite flower.And her sister, Francesca, actually put me in touch with the person who started the memorial, a woman named
Debbie Jordan, she said that when she heard the case, she was just so moved by what happened to Eileen that she felt compelled to do something.
So in addition to making this really beautiful memorial, she also got about a dozen cards and went around the whole county and had everyone sign the cards, and she sent them to Francesca and to Eileen's friends.
And the thing I think of is, this is six years later, this crime happened in 2018, and here's this poster that someone is actually going back and maintaining and making sure it's still there, because it was there when we filmed.
It really is a testament to this area, because in addition to this memorial near where Aileen was found, Miss Etta from the motel also made a little memorial for Aileen, where every night they put up a light, they shine a light. in honor of Eileen.
I've been doing that every night since for the past six years.
It's like she developed this whole family that she really didn't have in life.It was her and her sister basically against it all, you know?So speaking of kind of creating your own family,
This is perhaps one of the more interesting components of this hour, right?Aileen was in a throuple relationship with Zach Abel and Christina Araujo.I've had to delete my search history thanks to you, Peter.
on my work computer, because, you know, I had to do some research.And so, of course, this all means that they were all three in a romantic relationship.
It's a type of polyamorous relationship, which has gained some popularity over the last few decades.
But I think a lot of people can look at this situation and make an assumption about the relationship, that Abel was individually dating both Aileen and Araujo.
By all accounts, from the friends that we spoke to, Christina and Eileen were in a romantic relationship themselves.Like, really, truly, these three people were dating each other.
And I think something that was interesting that David Adlerstein, the reporter we spoke to, talked about was that when this crime first happened, people in the community automatically assumed, without hearing anything else, oh, Christina must be the killer.
And then once we dove into the story a little bit, and you're learning more about the evidence pointing towards Zack as an active participant in Eileen's death.
There's DNA evidence, his palm prints were on one of the murder weapons, so people's expectations don't always match the reality of what happened.
I know Araujo is basically saying this beating was started, she participated later on, but she wasn't sort of the primary person.She didn't start this thing.But I wondered about the forensic evidence.
Did it back up her story that she participated minimally in the beating of Aileen?
It did, and I think that's part of what the prosecutor said to us when he interviewed us, that she's testifying and she's telling a story, but a lot of what she was saying lined up with the forensic evidence they found later.
So they had this curtain rod that had Eileen's blood on it, and it had Zack Abel's palm prints on it. didn't have Cristina Rajos.Then there's this walking stick that Cristina testified was used in the crime.It's broken into multiple pieces.
It has Aileen's DNA on it, and it has Zac Abel's DNA on it.Didn't have Cristina Rajos on it.The defense attorney would argue she had bruises on her hands and feet, so that, to him,
We made the argument, meant that she participated, and in her own story she participated, so it would back that up.In other words, she was punching and kicking.
Right.And the defense also say that the reason why Zach's palm print is on the bloody shower curtain is because Christina said, pick that up. and that, of course, his DNA would be on the walking stick.It was his walking stick.
Now, you know, it's a shame that this is our representation of throuples, because most throuples, I'm sure, don't end this way, you know, or have such toxic elements.
Seems like there was no transparency, no communication, no real consideration of each other.And so it was really kind of doomed from the start in many ways.
Look, human nature has to play a role in this. three people together, sexually, socially, there's bound to be some envy, some jealousy, and it seemed to explode in that room.
And, you know, thropple aside, this is a classic, you know, domestic violence case.This is a case where in many ways she was isolated because she worked with them, because she lived with them.
You know, she was financially dependent on them, on making this work.So she had a lot riding on this.
What kind of struck me with this one specifically is We do domestic violence cases all the time, so we've seen this story a lot of times before.And what struck us from the beginning was Aileen was really facing it with two perpetrators.
She had two romantic partners, and therefore she really had two abusers that she was trying to navigate and deal with, which must have been overwhelming.
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Welcome back.You have a very powerful interview with Eileen's sister, Francesca, who even six years later seemed very emotional, very raw.What was it like to speak to her?
Francesca was so good to agree to talk to us about something as deeply personal and painful as this.She's heartbroken.And so I approach this obviously with as much sympathy as possible and respect for her.
I thanked her many times for participating in this.Think of what she's gone through along with what Eileen went through.Lost their mother, lost their father. then she ends up losing her sister.
And she carries a sense of guilt, and we all try to assure her she's not responsible for what happened to her sister.But she has dealt with so much, but she maintains her dignity, and we were just blessed to have her in this story.
Why did she want to participate in this?
She really wanted to be a voice for Aileen and represent not only Aileen, but represent their parents as well.And we all told her she represented her whole family beautifully.
She showed a lot of strength, but this was very difficult for her to not only speak about the brutality of what happened to Aileen, but to speak on camera.
And we learned during the course of the interview too, because some of the questions I had that I was asking gently involved details of what had happened to her sister.She didn't want to hear any of it.
And she still doesn't want to know these details.It's just too painful for her.But I felt like we got her trust and she opened up to give us details that are fascinating.
on our end, it was really watching also Peter's humanity and how to deal with someone that's experienced trauma and was very clearly visibly upset.
And I think as you're going through an interview and we're kind of checking off questions, I think we all kind of experienced and we're really watching Peter firsthand make a decision of like, we got enough.
Right.Peter was able to tell what her boundaries were and we weren't pushing that.
No one's trying to do more damage here.
Exactly.It was masterful to watch because it was, you know, it's emotions as opposed to thinking.
Well, I mean, one thing that everyone at 48 Hours does to a very, very high level, but I know that Peter's always cognizant of is delivering these stories with compassion, understanding that these are human beings who are willing to relive some of the worst things in their lives in the hopes of improving someone else's life.
Right, right, exactly.And that's what she wanted to do.And, you know, these interviews are important that you're listening to them and reacting to them is far more important than the initial question.
And I think she, it was almost like a therapy session.You know, as we talk, you don't have these conversations with family members.You know, when I lost my mother and I'm with my sisters, I didn't interview them, right?
We don't have those kinds of conversations. It becomes a bit cathartic for them as well to finally talk about things that they've always wanted to talk to someone about, but haven't done.
Sometimes it's easier to talk to strangers.I think we've all been in situations like that.You also interviewed Aline's best friend.She did not want her name, her real name used, right?So she's referred to as Allie in the show.
Given her privacy concerns, was it difficult to convince her to go in front of the camera?
Right.First of all, she has a very unique name and she was also concerned about her family.She didn't want her family to be kind of tied to this.And when I first spoke with her, she said, I do not want to be on camera.I don't want to be involved.
I will give you information on background. I thought, oh, okay, that's great, let's do that.
And then as I kept talking to other people who knew Eileen, I realized that they didn't know the story, they didn't know this case, they didn't know what Eileen was going through in the same way that Allie did.
And we've all kind of experienced that the people who wanna speak don't necessarily have the things that you need.And so I went back to Allie, And I asked her again, and she said, you know, I'm not really interested.
And then shockingly, she called me the Sunday before we left for Apalachicola.And she said, Lauren, how are you?And I said, I'm great.I'm actually heading to Florida.We need a voice for Eileen.No one knows the story the way that you do.
And she said, OK, I'll do it.And I was shocked. But I was so excited because I knew that it would really help the story and that she would provide Aileen's perspective in a way that no one else could have.
I think it was an example of Lauren's soft persistence with someone they were trying to interview because it was an ongoing back and forth.
And I mean, to Lauren's point, she knew everything and she was really central to trying to help Aileen in her moment of need.So it's like that whole part of that story and even giving...
Aileen, the grace that she was trying to get out of this situation, Allie was the voice to tell that story.
Yeah, I can't imagine what the hour would be like without her.Because she really gave some insight into how Eileen wound up there and why it would be so challenging for her to pull herself out of it.
Zach Abel did not take the stand at trial, but someone very close to him was actually supposed to testify on his behalf.His own mother, Kimberly Clark.But that never happened.
So to explain why, I want to play parts of your interview with defense attorney Alex Morris that actually did not make it into the hour.
So what happened?Why didn't she testify? In 25, coming on 26 years, I've never experienced this.She was here in Apalachicola prepared to testify under subpoena in a motel room.I'd been here for three days, four days.She's gonna testify the next day.
The woman who came up with her, I get a phone call from her.It's Frannick, says, Alex, you need to come to the motel.Why?Kim's dead.I said, you gotta be kidding me. So my first thought was, don't call me, we need to call 911.
But I went to the motel, and oh my gosh.I mean, she's deceased. Of course, my brain's... Wait, wait, wait.Did she have a heart attack?Did she... She didn't take her own life.No.
So we know now, natural causes, the medical examiner's report, heart problems, and things of that nature.
If Zack's mother had lived and testified, might there have been a different outcome?Yes.
Really?Well, I mean, what was she going to say that made the defense attorney so confident?
Abel had to be humanized and his mother was the person who was going to be able to do that.I lived in England for a while where the accused very often testify.In America, it's just the opposite.They rarely do.He chose not to take the stand.
And so when you do that, you're defined by your enemies, unless you have someone like your mom who will take the stand and humanize this guy.Alex Morris said it hurt the case because they lost that element.
Alex had mentioned to us too that Kimberly Clark was potentially going to kind of back up the story of Christina as being more of an aggressor in this relationship and really paint that picture a little bit clearer.
And she wasn't just, you know, Zach's mom.She was also their roommate.She lived with the Thrupple around the time.I know!She lived with the Thrupple around the time of April 2018, right before this road trip.
And she was there for that big fight that kind of started the road trip.So she could have really given some insight.
She did an insider view.And, you know, we wrestled with including this detail in the hour.
Ultimately, why didn't that detail make it in?Just time?
It's time.You know, we have an hour to tell a story.
And, you know, to Zack Abel's credit, Alex Morris offered him that opportunity, you know, should we see about delaying or maybe seeking a mistrial because of this?This was a big, you know, character witness for us.
And Zack said, no, let's keep going.
Alex brought up to us that might be a reason that he could appeal, because a judge might look at that and say, well, he made that decision, but he wasn't in the right headspace.
Could have been under duress.
Exactly.He was grieving his mother in that moment.So that's fascinating.
As we mentioned, Abel didn't testify at trial, but he did make a statement during his sentencing more than two months later.48 hours was there.That day, what was the reaction in the courtroom like to hearing Abel speak?
We were very excited to hear what he was going to say.And his statement was that he loved Eileen and that actually this road trip was kind of a little bit of a love trip for him and Eileen.
And he claimed he proposed to her on the trip with a ring pop.And, you know, it's the specificity of it.You know, it wasn't just, I proposed, I proposed with a ring pop.But we were kind of very shocked by that because
by the prosecution's standpoint, you killed her maybe, what, a week or two after that.But he said that they loved each other, they were going to start a family together, and they were going to get away from Christina.That was his whole thing.
Their whole plan was to get away from Christina.
And we're hearing this, I mean, we're processing this, and then the judge is also hearing this statement, and then sentences Abel and gives him the maximum and actually says that he wishes—I'm paraphrasing—but effectively he was saying that he wished he could give him a harsher sentence.
And he'd sentenced him to life, so... What does that mean?I mean, I don't know that I've heard a judge personally express anything like that before.Right.
Because remember, the details were explained in court with photographs and everything else of her body.Yes.What was done to that woman is as shocking a killing as I've ever seen on any 48 hours.And I've been doing this for a couple of decades.
It was a shocking killing. That was the undercurrent for all of this, so that as the judge is listening to him express regret, he has the memory of those photographs, knows what was done.
So then what about Christina Araujo's sentencing?Because, I mean, between the two of them, she made out much, much better.
Christina Araujo in the end, her judge was a different judge than Abel's judge, sentenced her to 25 years.
So she could have gotten life in prison like him, but she got a lesser sentence of 25 years and he acknowledged her cooperation with testifying for the prosecution.
A lot of Aileen's friends and loved ones were really nervous that because of the connections that Christina had bragged about for all of these years, according to them, that she might just get a slap on the wrist.But clearly, she did not.
It's not life, but it's not a walk.Absolutely.So Araujo always bragging about her dad. And I thought to myself, like, why does she keep saying this?Like, was she a problem child before?Had her dad helped her out before?
But now we've, you know, elevated to a level where you're like, sorry, kid, I can't help you.I mean, did we find out any sort of more background on her?
I mean, there's a lot of rumors.There's a lot of things that friends and other people have speculated.As far as evidence, I mean, we haven't seen any.
And he spoke at her sentencing and was pretty clear that he had never used his influence to help her.I mean, I think was pretty eloquent in saying that.
Oh, for sure.I think she just tried to use it to intimidate.It was a power play.I've got this dad who can make things happen and will protect me. Nothing more than that.
He turns out to be, based on all of our reporting, a very straight arrow guy and he told his daughter, you're going to admit what you've done and you're going to pay the price for what you've done.So just the opposite.He did his job as a lawman.
And he was, in a way, kind of a hero in this case.
For all of her bragging and all of the alleged threats she made to Eileen about her father, about her powerful connections, when push came to shove, he turned her in.The father turned her in.
And to his story, was influential in her pleading guilty.
Wow.I'm sure. absolutely devastating when you dedicate your life to law and order to have a child that you then have to have to turn in.
So at the end of the episode, Eileen's best friend, Allie, expressed her hope for more compassion towards those trapped in abusive relationships.And I think that you're helping to fulfill her hope, for sure, by sharing Eileen's story.
This is a great hour, you know, and I hope that ultimately people also learn from this hour.Peter, Lauren, Richie, I want to thank you guys so much.Thank you.Thank you for having us.
If you or someone you know is a victim of domestic violence, contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline.That number is 1-800-799-7233.
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In November 1991, media tycoon Robert Maxwell mysteriously vanished from his luxury yacht in the Canary Islands.But it wasn't just his body that would come to the surface in the days that followed.
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