On Tuesday, April 28th, 1987, Larry Sarhat contacted Terry to set up an interview.Unlike the way Terry had acted toward Elkhart cops, Terry was polite to Larry and not at all hesitant to chat.
He said that Ed had given him a heads up that his brother-in-law would be looking into Ada's disappearance, sort of in a private investigator capacity.And Terry told Larry that he would help him if he could.
So the two of them arranged to meet that evening at Terry's shop.This is episode 9.He said what? Terry didn't waste any time on small talk once Larry arrived at his store that night.
He jumped right in with more commentary on the paternity of Ed and Ada's younger son, Jeff.
Despite wavering with local police in the past saying it was something he just suspected, oh, not really, kind of, but yes, he was never told that outright, this time Terry's story was that Ed had confided in him that Jeff wasn't his son.
He said that Ada's unexpected pregnancy left Ed distraught.But Terry couldn't say for sure if Ed's distress was because Jeff wasn't his, or because he simply didn't want another child.
Terry said when he visited them in the hospital after Jeff was born, he jokingly asked Ed who the baby resembled, which Ed didn't find funny at all.And after that, Terry said he didn't give the matter a second thought. until Ada went missing.
But he told Larry that Ed now denied ever questioning Jeff's paternity, so Terry didn't push him on it.To Larry, Terry painted a picture of Ada as a sincere, hardworking woman who wasn't overly complicated.
He said she'd been a huge support to him during his divorce from his first wife.He had cried on her shoulder many times. But he admitted that back then his motives for talking to her weren't totally innocent.
Part of the reason he tried to get close to her was to get in good with Ed and hopefully join his company.He said that when life got frustrating, Ada would channel her energy into decorating the house and working on the lawn.
But he thought that she was lonely.After all, Ed was out five nights a week.And Terry says that he would visit Ada once or twice a month just to chat.
And she never said anything bad about Ed, but Terry says that he would have been pissed if his spouse did that.And he still thinks Ada had it up to here with Ed being gone all the time and just left.
Maybe she even found out about Ed's various indiscretions with other women. In Terry's mind, she's not dead.She's out there somewhere, smiling, glad to have escaped her situation.He hoped she's happy wherever she is.
But her actions had caused everyone a lot of grief.In fact, when Larry showed him an article he'd clipped about Ada, complete with photo, Terry started to tear up.
He said if she wanted to leave so badly, she should have just divorced Ed and gotten half his money. Terry went on to describe Ed as a difficult person to get close to, sort of like Terry's own mother.
He said their friendship was kind of one-sided, and Ed didn't talk much unless it was about business. Although during a recent phone conversation, Ed had gotten pretty personal when he asked Terry if he and Ada ever quote-unquote got it on.
Terry told Larry that they didn't, but there was this one time when he thought she was coming on to him.And listen, I just have to let Larry's report do the talking.Actually, a voice actor reading Larry's report.
But I need you to hear it in Larry's words, because Terry's interpretation of the encounter he had with Ada was too bizarre for me to summarize. but I need to warn you, his statement is sexually explicit."
He explained that there was a joke between he and Ed that Terry bragged that his wang was so large that if he stuck it into a pregnant woman, he could abort her.
With this in mind, he recalls he ran into Ada at the Concord Mall in 1975 when she was pregnant with Jeff.Ada wanted to talk to him, but she had to call Ed first.Ed was busy and couldn't talk to Ada, so she didn't talk to him on that occasion.
Terry thinks that Ada had come to him so that he could abort her with his big dick.But Ada never talked to him about anything like this.
I'm gonna give us all a moment to just slow blink and let that settle in.Really, you can't make this shit up.According to Terry, he was basically a one-man abortion clinic.
And also, according to Terry, that wasn't the only time Ada seemed interested in him.
Once, when they were at Corey Lake, she said something that made him feel uncomfortable, although he didn't recall what she said, just how it made him feel, like he was spending too much time with her and that she might be getting too serious with him.
Now Terry admitted that he hadn't told police about all of this stuff, but that's because he was more comfortable talking to Larry.
Ed had mentioned this big-time FBI brother-in-law before and how Larry stayed at the Harrodines' house for a few days, four to be exact, after Ada vanished. Terry also told Larry that he'd never verified any of this info with a polygraph.
He didn't believe in them, but he would be willing to undergo hypnosis to clarify some of his more fuzzy memories, if that would help.
Although, Terry apparently already remembered more about that suspicious man from the YMCA, the one who drove a camper with Arizona plates.He now told Larry that Mr. Arizona wore a vest and a green hat with a long feather in it.
He thought he resembled the character Spanky from the Our Gang movies, you know, the little rascals.And according to Terry, he appeared to be in his mid-60s, probably too old to be having an affair with Ada.
And then, partway through their interview, Terry all of a sudden had a change of heart.He told Larry that actually, everything about Ada's disappearance did point to foul play.
She didn't take anything with her, and there was no trail of clues to follow.Plus, Ada was a sensitive and sympathetic person, the type who could easily be taken advantage of by someone preying on her loneliness.
She could have been snatched up in an instant, and maybe afterward the killer dumped her in a well, which is pretty specific.
He said, it just has to be something that is right under someone's nose in the neighborhood, a hole or a hole in the wall.He said this could not happen out of state.There was no time to do anything, so it had to be done in that neighborhood.
Terry said it had crossed his mind that maybe Ed was responsible, that he could have had someone else get rid of her if Ada was having an affair and Jeff wasn't his.
But he didn't think so, because Ed didn't have a mean bone in his body, and he never heard him badmouth Ada before.And then, like a pendulum, he went right back to his initial theory.
He said if she did leave voluntarily, she must have had an accomplice.
He doesn't think Ada was that clever to do this by herself.Unless perhaps she was pregnant and had some turkey who was having an affair with her and helped her get away.
Terry said Ada being pregnant would explain that radiant glow she had the last time Terry saw her and Ed at the Y, not long before she went missing.
And this is when he mentioned, for the third or fourth time, how uncharacteristically mean Ada had been to him that day, making a hurtful comment about his hearing loss, which really stung.
To top off their whirlwind of a discussion, Terry asked Larry if he liked firearms, and then proudly showed off a rifle that he had traded a shotgun for.
Larry had to have left that interview with his head spinning, or at least happy that he made the effort to go talk to him.Because despite his hostile and curt attitude toward the local PD, around Larry, Terry couldn't stop talking.
Between the off-the-wall talk about his genitals, his commentary about how comfortable he felt with Larry, and the gun chatter, it seems to me like Terry wanted to impress him. But Larry was FBI, after all.
Perhaps more important, in Terry's mind, than local cops.Something that the Michigan State Police profilers had suggested might be the case way back when, if you remember.
— They feel that in an interview with a suspect, the interviewer should play on the suspect's ego, and that whoever the interviewer is, he should be someone of importance.
An FBI agent would be the classic example, and someone the suspect would feel comfortable with.
So if they were right about that, there was something else that they put forward when profiling Terry that really stood out to me and Nina when reading Larry's report.
There is a line in Larry's report when Terry is talking about divorcing his ex-wife.
Terry stated he really feels bad for Ed Herodine because he knows what he is going through.He said he went through a difficult divorce with his first wife, and it's so tough that it almost makes you impotent.
I don't know if he was speaking literally or figuratively, but it stands out when you read it side by side with the Michigan State Police Behavioral Unit report from 1986.
This subject could be sexually impotent and could be abusive towards the female at the point where he is dealing sexually with her.
Another thing we keyed in on but never found explained was Terry's knowledge of Larry staying at the Harrodines for four days after Ada went missing.
I'm not sure when Ed told him that, or in what context, or even if that's an accurate statement, because Larry didn't elaborate in his report.
But it does imply that Terry had some insight into what was happening in their home during that critical time. It doesn't look like our observations came up when Larry consulted with the state police behavioral unit a few days after his interview.
Or if they did, they weren't documented.But the information he relayed gave investigators even more reason to consider Terry a strong suspect in the case.It fit perfectly with what their psychologists and detectives already believed about him.
Terry's motive could be twofold, i.e., for sex and money.They stated he could have asked Ada Herodine for money, knowing that Ada held the purse strings and that Ed Herodine was wealthy.
When she refused, he could have become furious and killed her quickly, transporting the body to his, Terry's property, where he plans to build his future home.
They advised against having Terry take a polygraph.They didn't think it would be beneficial.Instead, they suggested Larry reach out to him periodically to try and get more information.
They wanted Larry to clarify certain statements Terry had already made, like that one about the well and how someone in the neighborhood must know what happened. But they advised that Larry shouldn't point out any inconsistencies in Terry's stories.
Just let him talk and be alert to his mood changes, but don't get discouraged if he shuts down.They recommended another round of surveillance on Terry near the anniversary and at other times to determine his normal routine.
And they decided to start with a ploy. You see, during his interview with Larry, Terry mentioned that he had recently ordered a couple of mattresses from Ed.So under police and Larry's direction, Ed had the mattresses shipped to his own house.
And on May 7th, 1987, this would be the day before the second anniversary of Ada's disappearance, Ed called Terry and told him to come pick them up at noon.
When Terry arrived, Ada's car was strategically parked in the driveway, right where it had been the day she went missing, and an undercover detective named Nancy DeWitt was leaning up against it, talking to Ed.
At the same time, investigators and Larry were camped out across the street in a neighbor's house, secretly filming the whole thing.
They wanted to see if Terry had any reaction when he saw a woman standing in the same spot where Ada supposedly was, chatting with an unknown man right before she vanished.
It is approximately 11.49 a.m.I am televising from the kitchen of Mr. and Mrs. Putts' residence, and I am focusing in on the driveway of Mr. Edward Heredine.The date is May 7, 1987.
The individuals that you are observing now are Mr. Edward Heredine and Detective Nancy DeWitt of the Elkhart, Indiana, Police Department.
It is now 11.55 a.m., and Mr. Terry has arrived with his truck to pick up two mattresses that he ordered from Ed.Get closer.Don't get in this."
Terry's reaction was muted.He barely glanced at Detective DeWitt.He actually seemed to go out of his way to avoid her.He just quickly loaded the mattress in his truck and left.
Now, it's not clear how long the surveillance detail on Terry lasted that year.We only have reports for two days.But it didn't yield anything useful.
Police just noted that since their previous stakeout, Terry's rural property had been bulldozed and flattened, and a pond had been created at the far end of it.So Terry was building his life, while the Harrodines' wounds were as raw as ever.
Two years in, and the passage of time had done nothing to heal them.How could it, when they still had no idea where Ada was?It was especially difficult for her sons, Greg and Jeff.
Greg had tried to go back to college when it started up again the first fall after his mom went missing.But just a couple of months in, he'd had enough.
My heart wasn't fully in it before that, and it definitely wasn't in it after that, so it didn't last long.
Ed had been holding everything together as well as he could, considering the home had always been Ada's domain.
He did a pretty good job of keeping things as close to the same as what she did for us.I felt he stepped up to the plate to take care of us boys.
I don't think being a full-time stay-at-home dad was his comfort zone.I think he did his best to kind of fill that void.He hired a couple of people to be around a little bit more.
In the summer of 1987, Greg married his college sweetheart, Cindy.And a couple of months later, Ed and Jeff moved away from the house that held so many memories, good and bad.
Their new place was in a townhouse development less than a mile from Crabtree Lane. But apparently, Ed didn't let police know they were moving.
So when an investigator showed up to their previous home in late October, he was surprised to find that someone else lived there.Actually, the son of one of Ada's friends.
Now, the investigator was there because he had reviewed the case file and realized that back when Ada first went missing, officers had seen fresh dirt over the Harrodines' septic tank, as if it had recently been serviced.
But there was no documentation that it was ever searched.And even though it was a long shot, police wanted to have it pumped so they could look inside for evidence and check it off their list.
Now, I think Ed still owned the house at the time because his permission was all they needed to get on the property and do their thing. So they must have gotten it around that time because they went on to search it.But they didn't find anything.
And they got that just recently, so they carried on.But the fact that Ed hadn't let them know about his relocation kind of caught their attention.
Although, in fairness, based on property records, it looks like he had just moved within the past few weeks.So maybe he was planning to update them, or maybe he decided not to, because by then, he was fed up with Elkhart PD.
So that little lead was a bit of a bust, and not much else happened until March of 1988.That's when police got something that they hadn't received in a long time.
An actual lead from outside of their case files that they thought might have some legs to it. they got a call from a woman named Judy who lived about an hour away from Elkhart in Plymouth, Indiana.
Judy said she had just read an article about Ada, and when she looked at the accompanying photos, she realized that the missing woman was a dead ringer for a cocktail waitress she met on a recent trip to Las Vegas.
Judy said she remembered this woman so well because she had struck up a conversation with her while playing slots.And she noticed that the woman was very interested in Indiana.She wanted to know all about the weather and the current events.
When Judy asked her about her connection to the state, she seemed hesitant to answer. In fact, she didn't really want to talk about herself at all.But eventually, this waitress did admit that she used to live there a few years ago.
She said she kind of missed the snow and ice.She even knew where Plymouth was located, which Judy took note of since not many people do. Now Judy hadn't given this interaction any thought until she got home and saw the picture of Ada.
The only difference she could spot was the waitress had a thinner face and she looked more haggard was the word she used, kind of worn down.
But when investigators brought her more photos to look at, Judy said she was almost positive that Ada was the waitress she'd talked to.
The problem was, she wasn't sure exactly which casino the waitress had been working in, although she had it narrowed down to just a couple on the strip where she spent most of her time.
So with this tip in hand, an Elkhart sergeant reached out to detectives at the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department and filled them in on the situation. They followed up by showing Ada's photo to staff and security at various casinos.
Vegas media even shared her missing persons bulletin on TV and in newspapers, a move which brought in tips from a variety of sources, everyone from people experiencing homelessness to hotel executives.
At one point, police thought they got really lucky when they found an employee who looked like Ada.But the woman was 15 years too young.
Again, things looked promising when later that month, a director at the Westward Ho Casino notified investigators that photos of Ada looked very familiar.
But with nearly three dozen cocktail waitresses on staff, it would take some time to vet all of them. But as it turned out, there would be no need to do that.
Because just days after the third anniversary of Ada's disappearance, Ada would be found, not in Las Vegas, but 10 miles from where she disappeared three years before.That's next in episode 10, Birch Road.You can listen to that right now.
