You can't have a vision without a provision.So like if it's placed on your heart, you have to pursue it.
You got down to 81 cents in your bank account, literally, and then it happened.
What?What?Yeah, it's wild.He said, you have to learn to carry a crown before you can wear one. I know what it's like to be the second fiddle.I know what it's like to be judged solely on the way I look.It really makes me emotional.
In a lot of my life, I never felt chosen.And to feel chosen that I was good enough, that I was the right person. My dad, for whatever reason, wasn't able to choose me.
And so I go after things that, whether it's men or jobs, I'm literally in the business of rejection.Even more so, I have to choose myself.Not feeling worthy.Like, why does my weight equate my worthiness?She's like, I have a mind obsessed about food.
Yes.You know. I'm getting so emotional.
I have never cried on the show and I'm like getting emotional and I'll tell you why.You talk about healing through this role of playing Kate and people are coming up to you sharing how what you've done has helped them heal.
Instead of talking about now, focusing on being chosen, you're saying, oh I'm focusing on choosing myself.
All the studies and they show you can't have that like a deep meaningful connection and love with someone else That's any deeper than the love you have for yourself.This is I know yeah How do you not attach your worth to fame oh Boy well
You look beautiful.You walking out, I feel like, is this like a wedding reveal?We are together.This is us.This is us.I think about that all the time.Yes.
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She's an Emmy and Golden Globe nominated actor, a number one New York Times bestselling author, a mega talented singer who's sung on stages ranging from the Grand Ole Opry to Disney World to singing while acting as the role of Kate Pearson for six years.
On the hit NBC show, This Is Us, Chrissy Metz, welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima Show.Oh, so much.You're here.
This is really exciting.I've missed you.I haven't seen you in it seems like forever.Feels forever.And it's like so cool to just be here and your presence in this beautiful, beautiful place.So thank you.
Well, I am so grateful that you are here.Thank you.I want to ask you, so many people So many people have big dreams, like big dreams, but they feel like they don't have what it takes to defy the odds in their life.
And you, for nine years, worked, as you put it, as second fiddle, sort of behind the scenes, helping other people's dreams come true while you were pursuing your own dream.
you got down to 81 cents in your bank account, literally, and then it happened.You defied the odds, Chrissy Mutz.And so my first question is just for you and your life, how did you defy the odds?
Well, I think it's really your intention, like why you want to do something.Like I was never interested in the fame or fortune.I grew up very humble beginnings.It was like, I didn't think I was going to actually ever have money to like own a home.
Like, I didn't even have a washer and dryer. You know what I mean?It's things that you don't really think about.You're like, yeah, okay, whatever.I just wanted to relate to someone.I wanted someone to relate to me.I wanted to tell stories.
And I really wanted to be a part of something that I think was bigger than me.And I think inevitably what I ended up doing was after lots of hemming and hawing and crying and thinking I was gonna move back home to Florida, why do I wanna do this?
Can I actually give it up?And I've heard people say, can't have a vision without a provision.So if it's placed on your heart, you have to pursue it.And even if the pursuit is that's your life's journey, because we all know that once you get to the
the destination, it's not about the destination.And only have you gone to the destination do you know that.But I think a lot of it is just surrendering and trusting.And I don't do that very well.But it took me 12 years to do that.
And I think once I did, then it actually happened.Which is still insane to think about that somebody knows my name or that I'm sitting here talking to you about my life.What? Yeah, it's wild, crazy.
I love that.I think too, exactly what you just said has been my experience with some of my big goals in life.
And I just want to share this and reiterate it for everyone who's watching us and listening to us right now, because so often we think, when I get to that thing, then I'm gonna have fulfillment.
And then when you get to that thing, you still take you with you.So when you look back, a lot of times it's that pursuit of it, it's the journey, it's knowing why you're doing it.
And then you just said something really, really big that I just wanna ask you about again, because this is tough for a lot of us, but learning to just surrender and kind of trust that things are happening as they're supposed to.
Yeah, because we can't see. you know, what's even five steps ahead of us.And you just think like, it's just gonna be this terrible forever.And then I always remind myself that like, what do I learn in these terrible moments?
Like, how do I continue to like persevere?Or what do I get to learn about myself?Or what I wanna do?I always try to think of the positive.I know it's difficult when you're in it, but for me that's helped.
Cause I know that I truly believe there's a reason for everything.
Can you talk about, you used this word second fiddle, playing second fiddle, and you were for nine years an agent helping other people.
A lot of people feel like they're maybe working in a business but really want to launch their own or they're, you know what I'm saying, they're second fiddle in different areas of their life.
Well, Devon Franklin, who produced the movie Breakthrough I was in, He said something so profound that I think about it all the time.And he said, you have to learn to carry a crown before you can wear one.
And I was like, right, because how could I know how to walk through something I've never even seen?I've never experienced.If I didn't get to interview people, hundreds of aspiring actors a day, how would I know to talk on the red carpet?
How would I be able to engage?There's all of these things that are set in place. Then I'm like, oh, right.I didn't have to have media training because I did that for nine years.
You know, like there's all these things that I got to learn about the business from yes.I mean, I always say it was like watching your boyfriend take another woman out every day.You're like, okay, great.
You get to do what I love to do and sit at my favorite table at my favorite restaurant, eat my favorite.It's fine, it's fine.But then I realized like I get to figure out how much I wanted it and why I wanted it. And I saw so many people come and go.
Their interest was fleeting or they really didn't know what they wanted.And so I really do believe that all of those things are set up in a way to inform you.And it really, I learned so much about myself, about the business.
And even when I was looking for agents, I'm like, you can't agent me, because I've been an agent.I had so much information.I'm like, oh, that's actually nice.I don't have to put on these airs.I'm like, yeah, great.
So yeah, things are happening for your good.I really believe that.
Do you believe our steps are ordered?
Yeah, I do.Yeah, I do.Because my life doesn't make sense. It just does not make any sense.And it's not about me.I feel like I'm just the conduit.I'm the piece that gets to tell the story that needs to be told.
Not because of me, not because I'm talented or I'm more special than anyone else.I'm like a regular girl, just with a different job.I really, really believe that.Yeah.
I know when you were auditioning for This Is Us, there's that famous saying, success leaves clues.
And will you share how, in that audition process, now you were nine years in to being an agent, you were down to 81 cents in your bank account, you're auditioning for this huge role, and you wrote a letter.Will you share that with everybody?
Yeah, so the audition process can be kind of grueling.You go through so many motions, and then you test to see what the chemistry is like between you and the other cast members.And so you spend eight hours there, and they try to match you up.
They were trying to see Justin Hartley's character, Kevin.Would I have chemistry with him as my brother?And I'm looking for different people in the room.Do I look like him?Could I be his twin?Do I look like, you know?
And I'm like, Chrissy, all you have to do is what you've done before. And I'm like, okay, right.And so much of that whole process was like, am I good enough?Am I good enough to do this?And I'm like, I don't know.
I don't know, because I've never been on a TV show before.I mean, I know what it takes and I've been behind the desk and I understand the business, but to actually suit up and show up for myself and this entire show, I'm like, I don't know.
But I knew that after the first two auditions and the callback and the chemistry read, I was like, I just want them to know how bad I want this job.
And I just want them to know that I'm willing, I'm not above groveling for anything or apologizing or asking for what it is that I need or want, but I just felt compelled to write this letter.
And so I wrote it to the executives at Fox and NBC, the studio and the network of the show, and I just said, I know what it's like to be the second fiddle.I've been in the shadows of so many aspiring actors.
I know what it's like to be judged solely on the way I look.And I know what it's like to have bigger dreams and all the things that I feel like Kate was really about.
And I said, so whoever you choose is gonna be the right person, and I'm excited to watch the show.Something like to that nature.And to this day, anytime we get around other executives or anyone, they're like, nobody writes letters.
That was so special for us.And I was like, oh my gosh, okay, that's great.Because I'm nervous to do it. I'm like, should I?Should I not?And I was like, no.My first instinct was to do it.
And you trusted it.I trusted it.And I'm glad that I did, because I think sometimes you just take that extra effort, and it just means something.Yes.I think love is in the details, just generally.
And I think when you make an extra effort, it means a lot.
So many people think that something will just fall on their lap, or it's just going to magically be delivered.Or if someone hasn't come to them, maybe they're not destined to do it.
And when I was reading about how you wrote that letter to the executives saying, I am this person.I live and breathe this person.This is why I'm great for the role.It just reminded me.And I love sharing it.So thank you.
Because so many people listening don't realize.They think there's something maybe inadequate with them if no one's just handed them what they're hoping for, but success leaves clues.
And you writing that letter reminds me of so many times where â actually, just this morning.Just this morning, I got bad news and something I was hoping for.
And my first thought is, okay, I'm going to have to figure out how to turn this around and I'm going to get it back.I'm going to make it happen somehow.So let me figure out how I'm going to make it happen.So I think through
And 99% of the time in my life when I've done that, I get the thing.And sometimes it's not the next day, sometimes it's over time.Gosh, I remember years of retailers telling me no to carrying it cosmetics.
And every time I was like, okay, what can I do?I'm gonna, you know, send them an email, I'm gonna send them my name, you know, over and over.
And so when I read that you sent that letter, I loved it because I think it's just a beautiful gift for people to hear that who maybe think like, oh, okay, maybe everyone who gets the thing they want also has to kind of keep going after it.
You don't just magically get discovered half the time.You know what I mean?It often doesn't just fall right into your lap.
And I know you wrote in that letter, or rather after you've talked about it, and just your appreciation for This Is Us creator, Dan Fogelman, saying that
Just that you appreciate what he did and that he chose you And you say especially because of how significant it was to choose a woman who didn't look like every other woman or every other person on TV Mm-hmm.
Yeah, can you talk about that anytime I think about Dan it really makes me emotional Why? He just, first of all, he's absolutely brilliant in the most humble way, self-deprecating way.And he's just so in tune with emotion and the human condition.
And it just comes through, I think, with everything he does.But also, yeah, that he, it was pitched originally as a film.
And one executive at some, I don't know, wherever place, said, oh wait, so the plus size girl, she's how plus size, like Kate Winslet? And he was like, first of all, what are you saying?
Second of all, no, this is like a real woman who's like really dealt with weight issues and it's plagued her her entire life.And she was loosely based off of his sister.And so I think Kate was a very important to Dan.
And so knowing that and knowing that he was so intentional about who he wanted, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh. In a lot of my life, I never felt chosen.Oh no.I didn't think I was going to cry, but I do.And so here I am.
And to be chosen for such a special role and a show and a time as it was. I always say if I never book another role or show or movie again, it's enough.It's enough.At some point things have to be enough and that was so magical for so many reasons.
Not only did it set the tone for new shows and new movies and just people being cast as just people, even if they weren't a particular size and even the role didn't have to talk about the size that they were.
That position that I got to just so gratefully be put in was so special and to feel chosen that I was good enough, that I was the right person.And also not being incredibly experienced.I mean, everybody on the show had 10, 15, 20 years of acting.
That was the first show I ever tested for.And I remember The second scene, Chris and I, Chris Sullivan, who played Toby, and I did together, I looked at him and I was like, Chris, I can't do this.I can't do this.I don't know my, I'm so afraid.
I think they hired the wrong girl.And he was like, no they didn't. No, they didn't.And I was like, and I'm like, OK, OK, please, Lord, help me and everything that is holy.
Just help me, because like I I didn't think I deserved it or was worth it or, you know, so there's a lot of pressure.But I'm I'm so indebted to Dan.
Not only did I learn so much about acting myself, obviously developed incredible relationships with people, but like what that particular role gave my life. Unreal.Unreal.That's unreal.In what way?
Well, it provided an opportunity to instill trust in myself, which I think is really confidence.
When you talk about Dan Fogelman choosing you, you posted recently on your Instagram that you want to be chosen, not half chosen.Yeah.Yeah.Can you talk about that idea and just that through line through your life?
Well, we're gonna get serious now.So thank goodness for therapy.I think, just as a whole, I wish it was more accessible to more people, because I think we have to treat the soil.
That's beside the point, but the most important point about mental health and therapy.But what I've discovered in therapy is that my dad, for whatever reason, wasn't able to choose me.
And so I go after things that, whether it's men or jobs, I'm literally in the business of rejection. I'm like, oh, that's comfortable for me.Oh, great, great, great.Let me just pursue that.Because that's what I'm used to and it's normal to me.
It's not healthy, but it's what I know.And we sort of veer toward the devil that we know.
just discovering like I need to be chosen, but even more so I have to choose myself and make a sort of living amends to myself about choosing myself because my dad was either unwilling or incapable.I'd like to believe he was just incapable.
But I realized through therapy that like, oh wow, like I choose things that don't choose me because I'm like trying to, I think rectify that situation or like, you know,
I feel like I'm valuable to someone and not have to beg them to choose me, but have to be willingly chosen.
And so I think that's why when you asked about Dan, I got so emotional because just as I was, just what I did was good enough and he chose it and it was right. doesn't mean you're always going to be right.
And, and that's fine too, because I do believe the things that are meant for you are yours and we'll find you no matter what.But yeah, being chosen is, Oh, that's a hard lesson.
And even to accept that, like that some people aren't going to choose you.And like, even what you mentioned earlier, I was like, Oh my gosh, I needed to hear that.
Because I think like, if I'm not chosen right out of the gate, then I don't need to like, it's not right.But sometimes you do have to sort of,
take a step back and say like, oh wait, if I want something, how do I kind of like reconfigure that pursuit?I was like, oh wow.Oh wow, I needed to hear that, so thank you for that.But yeah, yeah, nobody wants to be half chosen.
Like either all in or don't do it at all.Really, that's how I feel.
What have you learned that you can share with anyone maybe who feels like they're never chosen?
Well, if we believe that everything happens as it should and for a reason, not being chosen is a reason.Even though it feels like you're discarded, you're dismissed.Like I always say, God's rejection is your protection.And it's easy to say that.
It's easy to sit somewhere and say that, but to put it into practice, it's difficult.You're like, really, again?Really, again?Again, again?How do I continue to like,
just show up and have like the endurance or the stamina, you know, but I, I think you just have to, for me, I have to go back to, I mean, even after the show's wrapped, I'm like, well, why haven't I had this series or why haven't I?
Cause it's not, it's, it's not what you're supposed to be doing or it's not what you want to be doing or it's not what's in the cards for you.And then it's provided an opportunity for me to like pursue music in a real way.
So like there are reasons why things are happening or why you're not chosen.And,
even particularly with my father, that relationship, or lack of, allowed me to really develop, I think, compassion and empathy, and really get to know myself, and show up for myself, and do the things that, unfortunately, was not cultivated in our relationship.
And then also not hold onto resentment. for him because I truly believe that if we know better, we do better.But not to say it's easy.It's a work in progress.I'm a work in progress.
When your mom married your stepdad and growing up in that environment, you've shared in your memoir, you've shared a little bit about sort of the emotional
and physical abuse that you went through, that he would bring a scale into the kitchen and shame you over, like weigh you publicly and shame you over it.What was that experience like and how's it impacted you?
Oh, gosh.I think it impacts everything.You know, like.It is it's tricky because I know my mom My dad basically left and left my mom with like nothing, three kids.And she was struggling for many, many years.
And I've talked about like times where she wouldn't eat because there wasn't enough food and she didn't have enough money for enough food for everybody and the sacrifices that she made.
And I know that she loved my stepfather, but I know that she also really needed us to have like a consistent, like roof over our heads.
I went to five elementary schools because we moved so often, which I think also helped me because then I can talk to anybody, you know, like I want to believe that there's like a blessing in every sort of difficult time.
But it was, um, it was hard because I felt like I was singled out by him.He didn't really treat my younger sisters the same way. And again, not feeling chosen or feeling chosen for the wrong thing or being sort of, it was like a magnifying glass.
And I, now as an adult, I'm like, okay, maybe he actually loved me, didn't know how to express it and did it in such a difficult way that he thought he was being helpful.
Like he doesn't want me to be unhealthy or he doesn't want me to be a certain way, but also hurt people hurt people.And he was, I think, very hurt by his own father.
These are only things I can say now because I've gone to therapy and I've processed feelings.But in the moment, I mean, I was devastated and it affected the way I walked into every room.I think it still affects the way I walk into a room.
It's like my desire to be a people pleaser and a peacemaker.I'm also the middle child of five, so that has something to do with it. Yeah, like not feeling worthy.Like, why does my weight equate my worthiness?Or like, why does it bother him so much?
Or like, what is he projecting onto me?Like, what is that?And as, you know, a 12 year old kid, it's like, how do you reconcile that in your mind?
you know, kids just, their job is to be loved, you know, and some parents don't have that capacity, unfortunately.So yeah, it was devastating.
It was, I mean, it's still something that I deal with and even in any kind of relationship and any kind of job that I want, I'm like, am I, am I worthy of this?Like, it's so much about like, am I worthy of, you know, attention, affection, love.
Because as a parent, I feel like that's their job.And when you don't get that, or you get it in a very unhealthy way, I'm not justifying his actions.
I think a lot of therapists who might listen to this be like, don't, don't you say that you cannot justify his actions.Like he didn't do what you're supposed to do as a parent.But it is, Yeah, it is still very painful.
If I like really kind of get to the root of it, there's still a lot of pain about all of that.
Yeah, for sure.How, did he do that with anyone else in the family?And what would he do exactly?
I know he'd pull out the scale and- Yeah, yeah, like he would weigh me in the kitchen or like threaten to like lock the cupboards.And I'm like, I don't think you get it.Like it's not, and because I think there's so much more awareness now around
food, food issues, food behavior.People, you know, when we educate people, the fear goes away.And maybe he was just fearful.I don't really know.But yeah, I mean, definitely mental, physical, emotional abuse for sure.Yeah.
And while you're going through puberty and you look like none of your other friends and you can't fit into any of the cute wet seal clothes that they can fit into, you're like, Oh, let me borrow your necklace.How exciting.Um, yeah.
And then also, you know, all my friends, like all the boys liked my friends and I always felt like I was setting my friends up with cute boys and Yeah, there's so much stigma about weight, and there still is, for a myriad of reasons.
But I think there's this idea that like, oh, you can't put the food down, or you're lazy, or whatever.And because, and I don't want to go off on a tangent, but I feel like sex, drugs, rock and roll, it's so glorified.
Or like very thin, beautiful models are like, on a pedestal even though they're very unhealthy as well.They're not taking care of their bodies.But when you're overweight, it's like a whole other thing.It's so bizarre.
So yeah, I mean, the physical, I think the emotional, like the physical abuse, like yeah, not great.But the emotional stuff that like just, like little nicks, little cuts, and eventually you like bleed out, like it is painful.
So yeah, I think I'm trying to heal those wounds slowly but surely, and it's not easy, because it definitely comes up in every, like the root of it is like I'm unworthy. Mm-hmm everything you funnel down the feelings.Oh, I'm unworthy.
So yeah a lot it feel Walking into a role where you were chosen then and then I mean year after year after year I know people just come up to you in the bathroom and share their stories with you like you're chosen by America and like celebrated and connected with so deeply.
Yeah, it is Not lost on me.Yeah, do you feel worthy of it?
What's interesting is all the things I never heard, I get to hear from people.And so everyone's like, oh, I'm sorry if I'm bothering you.I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.Like you're healing, you're healing the wounds for me.
Like you're, you're putting a little band-aids on these wounds for me.And it really means a lot to me.And it means a lot because
I feel like they have been impacted and not because of me, but because of, yes, what I've brought to the role, but also the way that it was written, the way that there was such care taken for her and for the show as a whole.
And like nobody, we don't have a blueprint for life.We're all just like trying to figure it out.And I think Kate did that so imperfectly that people related to that.And for that, I'm so grateful because
It does connect me with people that I never, I remember one of the first women who ever came up to me in New York City, she's like this cute little thing, her cute little workout clothes and her little stroller and her little baby.
And she's like, can I talk to you?And I was like, sure.And I think she's gonna say something hateful or rude or whatever.
And I preconceived, I had this preconceived notion of what she was gonna say because she looked a certain way and she was like, I can't tell you how much I relate to your character.And I'm like, What?But why?What do you mean?
And she's like, just because I'm not overweight, just because I don't have extra weight on my body doesn't mean that I don't relate to the behaviors or the unworthiness or, you know, whatever the behavior is around food.
She's like, I have a mind obsessed about food.
I'm getting so emotional.
I have never cried on the show, and I'm getting emotional, and I'll tell you why.Because you're talking about our steps are ordered.You're talking about the things that you did not get growing up.
And I always think about this idea that God gives us double for our trouble. And I'm thinking about how you are like healing.
You talk about healing through this role of playing Kate and people are coming up to you sharing how what you've done has helped them heal.And it's almost like what you're just describing right now is like double.It's like you're healing.
You're talking about them helping you heal through the words they're sharing with you and then they're healing through seeing themselves through you.And it's like double.
And I just, it makes me think of anybody sort of like going through a hard time right now or in a tough situation, not understanding why it's happening to them or how they're not getting the love they need or any of those things.
And the thing that you said earlier too about how you weren't chosen and instead of talking about now, focusing on being chosen, you're saying, oh, I'm focusing on choosing myself.Choosing myself.That is gonna be huge for people listening.
It's so hard, because we're not, it's not.
How do you do that?Yeah, it's not cultivated.Yeah.
Because if you do, then you're selfish, or how could you think about only, I'm always thinking about everybody else, so much that my therapist is like, Chrissy, your mantra is what's in it for Chrissy?What do you get out of it?
And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. What?What is that concept?I don't know.What?I don't think about me.And you have to.Just like on every single airplane, they say you have to put the oxygen mask on yourself.
Every time I hear that, I'm like, oh, right.Because you can't help whoever's sitting next to you or, you know, God forbid, a family member.And it's difficult.It's so difficult to choose yourself.
And because it's not cultivated because we feel selfish or if someone's not choosing themselves, they then feel guilty and they project that they're not choosing, you know, so then they try to make you feel bad and you're like,
As soon as you draw boundaries and choose yourself, you really get to see who people really are or wherever they're at, I should say, in their journey.
There's so much more coming up in this episode.You are not going to want to miss it.But first, I wanted to share this with you.In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams.You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth.
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And now more of this incredible conversation together.
Because I always say, like, people are troubled.I don't think they want to be.Like, we just have a lot to uncover, discover, discard, you know, in our lives.So it's hard to choose myself though.
It's so important, right?Yeah, it's so important.And it's a lie that it's selfish.
I think like, you know, you look at all the studies and they show you can't have like a deep, meaningful connection and love with someone else that's any deeper than the love you have for yourself.Right.And I don't know if you've ever
Like anyone listening right now, it's a big one because especially as women, we think, oh, let me make everyone else happy, then I'll be happy.
But it's like you can't have the depth of love and connection any deeper with anyone else than the depth of love and connection you have for yourself.And I think that what I've learned the hard way, I'd be curious if you've learned this,
as well, or had a similar experience, is that a lot of my life I thought if enough other people chose me, then I'd feel chosen.
And so I overachieved, or I tried to make everyone else happy, and you can get chosen, you can get famous, you can get whatever it is your goals and dreams are, but if you're not yet choosing yourself, you'll still never feel chosen. Right?
It's a big, it's so profound.I don't think I've ever talked with anyone about this, by the way, but it's so profound that you're on this journey.
I think that's so powerful because I think for, I'm just imagining so many people listening to us again, seeing themselves through you that are going to be like, wait a minute. Well, you just gave me an epiphany.
Because it's like, yeah, I can only give what I have.And obviously, we can only keep what we give away.But you also have to give that back to yourself.Because you can't give from an empty well.And you have to have that love to give to someone else.
And it has to come from yourself.And then I realized, oh, girl. Yeah, all of the work of my father not choosing me or even Dan choosing me or whatever role or label or whatever wants to work with me, I can't attach to that.
I can only attach to how I feel about myself and how I show up for myself, so I can then show up for other people.
We so often think, I mean, I feel like this is sort of this story in almost every advertisement and everything we grew up thinking that if I finally get that, then I'll be happy, whether now online and social, oh my gosh, it's when I finally get a million followers, when I finally get famous, or when I finally get
six-pack abs or married or a job title or whatever it is.I want to ask you because you said something at the very beginning of this that was like so profound.And I think about this because sometimes I think
I feel so blessed to have accomplished some of my greatest goals to realize, oh, that's not it if I don't first love myself.
I want to just ask you this because you're one of the very few people on the planet, when you look at the whole population, you're one of the very few people who've been able to have this experience that so many other people dream of, but you have become famous.
For everyone out there who thinks once I finally get that thing, then it's going to change everything.Then I'm going to be happy.Then I'm going to be enough.What has becoming famous been like?What changed?What didn't?All of it.
Well, people know my name and I definitely cry in bathrooms with strangers.So that's actually not different because I am, I've always been an emotional person.I've always had tons of empathy for people.
And I think that's the thing that people attach to in my work that they're like, Oh, she's sincere and honest. Because I don't like, what is talent?What is talent?Anyway, it's so subjective.But I think it's connecting to someone.And I love people.
And I love to connect with people. It doesn't matter where they're from, who they are, what language they speak, what their background is.I think that's the whole reason we're here on this plane of existence is to treat people kindly.
That's all that really matters at the end of the day.And so that and me, I don't think has ever changed, but it's definitely... You know, they say more money, more problems, like that definitely is a thing.
Especially when you come from a family and a life that like, I didn't know how to manage money.What does that even mean?Like, I don't even understand, like, huh?So that was very overwhelming and it seemingly, there's a lot of fear about that.
And then also fear of scarcity, like, well, I've had this now, so what's gonna happen?And who am I without this show?
But of course, the beautiful opportunities, the people that I've had a chance to meet, the places I've had opportunities to go, I never expected that. And those things really I think can form you as a person.
And those things I wanna bring back to my family and to my friends and try to be generous in that way.But I think that, before the show, I could go on an airplane and someone could not wanna sit next to me.
If they were too squished or they were gonna be like, oh gosh, here comes a big girl that I have to sit next to.But because now I'm on a TV show, they don't care. Or they're like, oh, well, you're famous.
And I'm like, oh, but I can't attach to the good or the bad.Because if I do, then I've allowed them to sort of have that power over me.Because I know ultimately, it's not like people necessarily don't care about me.
but they care about who they think I am or because I was on the TV every Tuesday in their home.It's such a weird mind twist of things.
So you saw a profound difference from sitting on an airplane.Oh yeah.What was people's reactions like before and then when did you notice that change?
I was always like, they're going to be bothered that I'm sitting next to them or they wouldn't look at me twice or they would not engage.
And then when I became, let's put it in air quotes, famous, then they wanted to have a conversation or they were more apt to want to sit next to me.And I don't know what that is.
It's still something that my friends and I talk about, because what does it really even mean?I don't know.I don't know.
It's very bizarre, because on one hand, I'm so grateful for the job that I have, but I'm also like... So they dropped their judgment or they dropped their discrimination because now you're famous. But I don't think they did.
I think that they're just like, because the judgment is now like, Oh, I'm famous.And like, maybe what could I, what could I provide to them?Or like, what insight could I share with them?
I don't know, like, do they feel cooler because they're sitting next to someone who's famous?I don't know.I don't understand it, but it is very interesting to me.And so that kind of behavior is, it makes you not want to trust people, you know?
And you're like, but why, even in relationships, it's like, why does a man want to be with me?Like, is it something that like, are they going to get something from me?Like, Even friendships.The friends that I have are from when I was broke.
Broke, broke, broke, broke. it's hard to now cultivate relationships.Cause I'm like, what are people's intentions?So it's so weird.Like those things have certainly changed and I don't really know how to navigate them.I'm learning.
Also, you know, people always say you're only as good as your last job.And I'm like, oh, I'm not, I was Chrissy before I was Kate and I'm going to be Chrissy long after, you know, maybe people don't even watch TV anymore.
Who knows if that's going to be a thing, but Like I still want to work and I still want to, you know, portray particular roles and stories, but... I can't attach my self-worth to the jobs that I get.And that's hard.
And I never had to deal with that before.It's weird.
The number of letters and emails I get and DMs from people saying like, I just got laid off from my job, or my company just went under, or I just went, and they had attached their identity and their worth to a title or a thing.And in this case,
you being such a important character on such a huge beloved show, right, for six years, and then that ending, do you feel like, or have you experienced feeling like you let your identity be attached to that?Oh, sure.
Yeah.Oh, I don't think I'd be human if I didn't.Yeah, especially six years, that's a long time.Also because it changed so much of my life.And like I say, people treat you differently.
You know?Yes. So yeah, it definitely plays with my mind because I'm like, oh, okay, so if I don't get another job or if I don't have something that's prolific or profound, what are people gonna think about me?Are they gonna still like me?
Are they gonna care enough to follow me?And if I don't have enough followers, there's not enough cachet, are people not gonna hire me?So it's like this weird cyclical wild ride that I'm like, ugh.
How do I balance playing that where I feel like Instagram is something authentic?Let's just say social media.Social media is authentic, but it's also, I have to preserve my own mental health.It's wild.I have to really step away from it.
And I don't read comments because I'll read a hundred really sweet, wonderful comments.And then one person's like, well, you know what you need to do?
And I'm like, you know, like why, you know, how do you not attach your worth to fame?Oh boy.
Well, I didn't always have it.Like I said, I grew up humble beginnings.I know what it's like to walk down the street and not have anyone look at me or have them look at me because they're like,
disgusted because I'm a plus size girl, whatever their judgment is.And then now it's like, Oh, Oh, you're famous.So I've sort of like, like I've gone through like a whole process.And so I'm like, Oh yeah, maybe my ego would be very bruised.
Cause I'm a human and I, we do everything we do because we want to be loved everything we do.Cause we just, just love me.Like just validate me and love me. But then it comes back to self-love.
So could I be okay with people not recognizing me, not liking me, that has to be cultivated within.So it has to always come back to that.So I guess that's ultimately what I'm working on.
Yeah.It's such a journey, right?I feel like the sooner we do it, the better, because a lot of people don't really recognize that their identity is attached to their kids.And then all of a sudden the kids leave and they're just- Who am I?Who am I?
Who am I?Or their job.And before you know it, decades of life have gone by not realizing that sort of like ultimate journey to worthiness, which is so
Our jobs are â all the stuff on the outsides are relevant to it, but we're raised thinking that's the thing.Yeah.Yeah.
And then talking about sort of like weight and worth, I know Oprah has shared publicly that people treat her so different if she is over 200 pounds versus under 200 pounds.
And she and I had a really powerful discussion about what is brand new to so many people because I feel like while we still have a long way to go, we're finally making strides in different areas of discrimination.At least a lot of us are trying.
And yet when it comes to weight, I still feel like it's this one area where a lot of people just think it's okay to just judge or discriminate or any of that.And she and I were talking about just all the medical advancements in science that's now
It's literally a completely obliterating the lie that for so many of us, our weight is our choice or our weight is tied to willpower or any of those things.And some of it's been around 10 years, but they're showing in a lot of cases that
you know, for people that deal with obesity, most of the time, it's not their choice.Most of the time, and they're linking it to different conditions in our brain and different things, just like any other traits that we have.
And so what has your, I mean, what experience are you living in now?What are your thoughts around that?
Yeah, it's so interesting.I have lots of thoughts. and a lot of information I think I'm collecting, because I don't completely understand.If somebody wants to take a particular prescription, they absolutely should.
And if it works for them, and they feel good about it, and they've consulted with their doctors, do it.Do it.But if you don't want to, that's okay, too.
whether it's a surgery, it's an actual medicine, we don't know everybody's ins and outs and we don't know their medical history.It's so much of a judgment.Exactly.
And that's why I said earlier, it's like with models who are sickly thin, who don't eat and smoke cigarettes, they're glorified.
when you're overweight, it's the most disgusting thing you could, and the societal conditions that have been placed upon us, it's just so wild.
So I think no matter what kind of body you're in, if you're healthy, great, because that's all we really want is to be healthy and the longevity and quality of life.
So if medications or whatever it is that you wanna do makes you feel good and it's helping you, great.
I also have, I know there's always an adverse, you don't know what the long-term effects are sometimes with things and that's scary, but if the short-term desire to change or need to change is more important, then that's what you choose.
And we're not here to judge anybody.I don't wanna judge anybody for whatever they wanna do.Who am I?Who am I?But I'm also, I always like to see both sides of every coin.That's just sort of who I am.
And it could be great for me, it could be not great for you, or it could be great for someone else and not great for me, whatever.But I do think that we are a society of quick fixes. I think that our pain management as a whole is terrible.
I think that we don't know how to manage pain, emotional, physical.And I've spoken to several like orthopedists who are like in other countries, like people aren't over prescribed pain medication.
Like you learn to actually like deal with pain as opposed to just trying to pop a pill and think that like, okay, great.And so I think we don't wanna sit in discomfort.
And that's one thing I'm very comfortable with being uncomfortable, because I've basically been uncomfortable my entire life. for whatever reason.
And so I don't want a quick fix about anything, because we know that the Band-Aid, like food, my food issues, the food is not the issue, it's the symptom.There's things that make me have behaviors around food.
And perhaps there's a chemical thing, and perhaps like putting that with a particular medication is, you know, like, it's so nuanced.But I do think that we, you know,
I mean, anything, like we don't want to feel something, we scroll through Instagram.We don't want to have that conversation with our significant other, let me go eat something, whatever.We don't want to feel it because it's too uncomfortable.
So my thing is always like, okay, what's the behavior around the situation?Why am I doing this?Let me be aware. And I think all those factors have to go into the bigger picture for people.
But... You know, for me, I saw this episode called State of Weight that Oprah did.And she had a whole panel of doctors.And after I saw this, I went and got tested for obesity genes.And I have... Because I wondered why my whole life...
Like, I can diet, exercise, do all the things.And I always told myself, oh, I just don't have enough willpower.It's got to be my willpower.And I felt so much shame, like, around my weight fluctuating, like, my entire life.For me, it started at 14.
And when I did this test, I have two of the obesity genes.And what I learned is that my body has the set point. that no matter what, it's going to go back to you.And it's literally not tied to willpower.
So I find what is happening fascinating because for probably 40, however long, it started when I was maybe 10, so maybe 35 years, I would shame myself and think it's a willpower thing and think it's my fault and think all these things.
And it was the most freeing thing.I feel like in the next year, I'm going to call it right now, I feel like in the next year, there is so much going on with people starting to be aware of their body chemistry.
One thing that Oprah brought up is she was saying she remembers doing her show when she said alcoholism is a disease.And people were like, no, it's not.Just don't pick up the drink.But that's kind of where people were.
And we were talking about the parallel between that and wait now, where people think, oh, just don't eat, or just don't whatever, whatever it is, you know what I mean, that these judgments people have.
I think in just a couple years are going to be so obviously antiquated and just unevolved because so much is happening with that.But for me, most of my life, I could
I would make so much progress in areas around self-worth, around all of these things, and still I would have challenges feeling enough in my body.And I really feel like it is just this past year where I...
No matter what size I am I I fully like it doesn't consume my energy anymore worrying about it Yeah at all and I don't feel it's freeing right because it's such a lie Yeah, like it's a lie that our weight determines our worth.It's all of it's a lie.
Yeah, and I I wrote a whole chapter on this in Worthy.I wrote a chapter called Don't Wait on Your Weight because for most of my life, it was like I was waiting on my weight to go to the party, to all these things.I let it hold me back.
Where are you at in your life right now on just feeling so comfortable in your body?
Yeah.I mean, it's interesting because I don't equate my, I'm trying not to equate my worth with my body.
That I'm like, oh, this is the vehicle.Yes.And like, you got to put gas in the car.You got to go get, you know, maintenance.You got to figure it out.Like, how do I make the vehicle run most efficiently?
And I feel like feeling like you're worthy enough to even take care of yourself.For many years, I didn't do that.I'm like, oh no, it's fine.I have so much shame and guilt about it, I'm not gonna do it.
And there's so much medical shame with people who are in a different size body.But if I don't attach my worth to my body and it's just the vehicle, it's just like how do I make it work most efficiently?
then it's not emotional and it's like, okay, maybe I do need to take more magnesium or vitamin D or get on a particular weight loss medication or whatever, whatever it means for someone.There are days that I'm like, ooh.
Yeah, yeah, great, feeling good.And then I'll see something, it's typically psychological, I'll see something, I'll start to compare and despair with someone else, someone's lost weight.
And I'm like, no, no, Chrissy, you're not upset they've lost weight, or you're not upset that you look different than you want what they have, but you have to work at it just like they worked at it.So I have to sort of go into that.
I mean, I want to be able to not, I want to be able to go and do whatever I want to do.And physically sometimes, you know, like there's a weight limit on a zip line or there's a weight limit on a something or like a helicopter.
Not that I want to go on a helicopter, because those things scare me.But whatever, you know, fill in the blank, whatever it is.I just don't want to not be able to experience life to the fullest because of a body that I'm in.
So that, you know, those things are like always in the back of my head, but also just health generally, like longevity and quality of life.So there are days that I'm like, I feel so great and good and I don't have to change.
And then sometimes I'm like, You know what?
I wish that I could wear that I wish that they made clothes that look like that for like plus-size women and that's a whole other story from another time but You know, it's really I go in waves with it and I don't know if that's societal pressures or if it's personal pressures or it's just
what I think I'm supposed to look like, or what I wanna be loved so I want people to find me attractive.I think it's so layered and nuanced.
So I try to go back to like, okay, is it because I said I was gonna do something, didn't follow through on it, and now I'm feeling like I have to attack myself?You know what I mean?It's so cunning.It can be, you know.
You know, talking about things like that make us sick of resentment, right?Lack of forgiveness.You've shared that you have forgiven, or let me let you share this.Where are you at when it comes to forgiving your stepfather?
Well, he recently passed away and it was really difficult because he was like the only father I really ever had, aside from my acting coach who was recently diagnosed with ALS and that is a whole other thing.
And so when he was in hospice, I was so compelled because he hadn't spoken to me since I wrote my book because he really felt like I threw him under the bus and so did his family.
And I was like, but read the chapter, read the chapter about like, yes, these terrible things happen, but like, I'm so grateful for what you instilled, like so much discipline and work ethic and all these, nobody's all bad and nobody's all good.
And we're doing the best we can.And so as an adult, and when you're sort of faced with someone's mortality, or, you know, they're in hospice, and you don't know how long you're gonna have with them.I just felt so compelled to write him a letter.
And, but I was honest, I was like, you know, like, I was very hurt, but I also love you very much.And I hope that you can forgive me for anything that you might be upset about.
And I forgive you because ultimately, at the end of the day, I really do believe that people want to be good.I do.I really believe that. And I wasn't trying to absolve myself because I don't feel like I did anything wrong.
I just spoke the truth in my book.And that was hard enough for me because I didn't want â I wasn't trying to like exploit the situation.It was just my truth.
and for him to accept that like what he did and accept his actions, you know, responsibility for his actions.And then after he had passed away, well, so he was in hospice and I wrote, my sister read the letter to him while I was on FaceTime.
And that was like the last person that he spoke to.And he was like, thank you.He said, thank you.And he said, I love you. And I was like, Ooh, like that was very important for me.
And then when we were cleaning out my childhood home where he lived, he actually had my book with a bookmarker in it.And I was like, okay.So like he was trying, you know, like he really did try.So, um, Yeah, sometimes we have to have grace.
And grace is for people who, I talk about this often, like grace is for people who like seemingly don't deserve it, but need it the most.And including ourselves, of course.
So yeah, that was like a very profound moment to be able to apologize and also tell him that I loved him.Because I really do.And I'm really grateful for him.I don't know.I didn't know really a father figure because my dad wasn't around.
Yeah, it's wild.It's so wild.Life.Life be lifin'.
Your dad, your biological dad, can you talk about him re-entering your life?Maybe right around or near the time you became famous and what was that like?What's happened since?How do you reconcile that?
when we were trying to like reconcile the relationship and I was trying to extend an olive branch.Um, and what I discovered was that like, he's very congenial.He's very funny.He likes to entertain.
Like he will always had people over and there were so many things. what I realized after writing the book was like, I was more like him than I ever thought.And that was hard to discover because I was like, Oh, right.Okay.
So he wasn't all bad, even though it made me feel that way because he left and abandoned me.Um, and even after,
Talking about that in the book and then the inquire the National Enquirer goes and speaks to him and he said that I abandoned him I'm like what in the world?Like he knows better He knows better and I know that he knows better.
And so that's why I can have forgiveness around the situation.But like Are you that desperate that you would?need the money to like I don't know.
I guess it was just difficult because I felt like you abandoned me again for your own needs and your own wants and your own desires or for your need to feel justified in your actions.We all know what we do or don't do and we have to live with that.
I know that he knew, but it was heartbreaking, especially like the one of the first conversations we have, he asks me like what I make per episode. And I'm like, really?
And that's after seeing him, like after reconciling.
Yeah, after trying to reconcile with him.And I'm like, is that okay? Could we have an honest conversation?Could I have said, is that all you care about?Or is it that you don't know how to ask me maybe another question?
Or is it that you find so much value in monetary gain?What is it?Why did you ask that?And I can only think of that now, because in the moment I was like, are you serious?And I laughed it off.
But I wish I could have said, that actually hurt my feelings.I want to have a relationship with you.And it feels like that's all you care about.Can you explain?Can you share why you asked me that?Of course I didn't.
But all that to say, it was, yeah, it's difficult.It's difficult.It's a weird dynamic.
Do you feel like you've fully forgiven both your father and your stepfather?
No, no, no.I mean, I think mostly, mostly, but I went to this really amazing therapy location in Nashville, outside of Nashville.And- Was it on site?It was.Life-changing.Oh, it was- Life-changing.
Love love love and I had done a movie that like really sort of I knew I shouldn't have done and I did it anyway because I committed to it and It was so difficult for me for many reasons and I was like, I don't know if I wanna act anymore.
And then I happened to run into someone who knew Miles and then I ran into Miles at the grocery store and I was like, okay, I clearly need to be going to On-Site.
And I'm so grateful I did because I was able to like really hash through some things about my father and my stepfather and a friend and the movie and Worth and all that.But what I, what,
What I know is that I'm doing the best I can, but there's things that still come up.
But what was so beautiful was that there were two older gentlemen in my group, because I did a group intensive, and they were like, we would be so proud to be your dad. And I said, oh my gosh.I was sobbing.
Even if I went there just for that, it was like I really needed to hear that and reconcile that no matter what I did or didn't do, it has nothing to do with me. Whether my stepdad or my father could or couldn't, it has nothing to do with me.
And that is what I think I'm dealing with.I want to say it's more about just coming to terms with that, because I always want to make it about me.And I'm like, Am I narcissistic?Is something wrong with me?Like, what?
And I just have to not take it personally, because it's not about me.But it certainly feels that way a lot of the time.So Onsite was very instrumental in that process.
So I feel like every day I get to move closer toward, I guess, a complete forgiveness.I don't know if it will ever happen. I don't know.But what I was getting at is there was this girl who's gorgeous, so funny, so talented.
She had this great relationship with her dad.Her dad was like madly like just engaged with her and loved with her and like obsessed with her in like a beautiful, like healthy way.And I was like, oh, my life would be so different if my dad loved me.
My life would be different.I would be a different woman.I'd walk into a room differently. And then I realized that's not necessarily true.And also she was there too.She had her own issues.You're not exempt.
You're not exempt from issues because you look a certain way.But in my mind, if I looked a certain way, if I was treated differently, I'd look a certain way and I'd be treated differently.But sometimes I'm the lesson for people.
Sometimes someone else is a lesson for me.So yeah.Yeah.Maybe I'll eventually forgive completely, but no, I couldn't say a hundred percent.How did your mom react to the memoir?Well, I think she was proud that I wrote it.I think that she,
was disappointed that she seemingly allowed that behavior.And it's difficult now because she had a stroke six years ago and then she had lung cancer.So she has aphasia.So she doesn't have a vocabulary.She literally speaks in baba baba bus.
So it's like playing charades with your mom. But before she had her stroke, I was able to share some things with her that like really hurt my feelings and she was able to apologize.And I didn't ever think I was going to hear, I'm sorry for my mom.
Not because she wasn't capable of it, but my mom would like tough.I mean, clearly she's gone through everything she's gone through and still kicking.Um, sassy as the day is long.And so,
that was very, um, healing for me that she was able to say she was sorry.So like, I feel like she did even before she knew I was going to write the book.And I do know that she's very proud of me.
Um, and that's all we want is our parents to be proud of us, you know, to love us and be proud of us.So yeah, but I don't think she was.And I think that's why she really,
encouraged and like spoke up about my stepfather treating my younger sisters differently.
So, yeah, yeah.Did you feel like the same kind of thing that maybe she should have chosen you?
Sure, oh God, I was just talking to my friend about that. I'm like, I understand why she stayed with him because she needed a roof over our heads and it was safe and secure and he was a great provider.
But there was a time where I, oh, I distinctly remember My stepdad didn't want me to live there anymore.He thought I was too troublesome.Troublesome in the way of me knowing what was happening.I wasn't like I was some rebellious teenager.
In fact, I was the opposite.I was such a good girl.I'm like, I will do everything I can to make you love me, whatever I need to do.I'll be a good girl.I'll listen.I'll close the door quietly.I'll put the dishes away quietly.
everything I can do for you to love me and still wasn't enough and He was I guess threatened by my awareness And so my mom was like Chrissy.I don't know what to do.
Like I don't know what to do anymore She's like you're gonna have to call your father and I was like, oh, I'm not what am I gonna call him for?
I haven't spoke to him in how long he doesn't want me and I remember he I called him and he was like Yeah, you can't be here either And my grandmother and I were very close and she was like, I want you to live with me.
But she lives in a retirement community.She couldn't have anybody there.And, um, yeah, I feel like that was such a distinct moment in my life.And it's still something I think about 40 at 43 years old.Um, and I, yeah,
Ooh, this chosen stuff is really a lot.
So wild how you connected the dots too, because then you go into a profession where the best in the world are rejected constantly.Rejected constantly.I'm like, oh, I know this.You know this.Oh, cool, cool, cool.
A lot of people don't realize we're attracted to what's familiar, what's comfortable.Oh yeah, being in like a normal stable relationship, I'm like, what is this?Where's the shoe?Is it gonna drop?What's gonna happen?Where's the drama gonna come?
Do I create the drama?Oh, I should create the drama, because I need the drama.Or you're not going to choose me, so let me just go ahead and self-sabotage, because you're not going to choose me anyway.
So let me push you away to see if you know how to stay.What can I do?Oh, boy. Worthiness.The greatest life journey.
It really is the greatest life journey.And it affects every area of our lives.Every.Every area.Yeah, it can't not.There's so much more coming up in this episode.You are not going to want to miss it.But first, I wanted to share this with you.
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and now more of this incredible conversation together.What role does faith play in your life?
Oh, I don't think I'd be sitting in this chair if I didn't have, if I didn't believe in God, if I didn't have faith that there was someone bigger, greater and a different, like, and to know, like,
there's something beyond this because you put so much stock into your worthiness or your value and what you acquire or what job you have or how much money you have in the bank account or how much you weigh or whatever.
Yeah, but my grandmother instilled faith in me at a very young age and that was so important. And I would go to church on my own because I was looking for something.I'm like, help me understand what this is all about.
And this pain or this sorrow or this feeling discarded by your own family, there has to be a rhyme or a reason.And ultimately, if I only really need to be loved by God, I'm good, I'm good.But I think that's a hard lesson.
And for me, that means something to me. Yeah, I mean, I pray every day, all day, because I need to have that conscious contact with God, for me, who I call God.
And I want to just note that I say that only because I don't want to offend people, but then people are like, but you can't denounce God.And so I just do it because I don't want anybody to ever feel a certain way.I'm a people pleaser.
But my relationship, who I choose to call God.
So, yeah, I mean, I think that's part of the reason why I wrote the children's book with Bradley and needing to like bolster that self-esteem and self-confidence that my grandmother gave me at a young age and knowing that like you have to treat the soil and I didn't always get that.
And so I'm like, oh, how can we impart that in a book, you know, and then of course the children's album.So yeah, faith is very, very important.It's like the most important thing.
which also people ask me, like, how do you navigate Hollywood with that thought and your faith?And I'm like, I wouldn't have any of this.I wouldn't have any of this if I didn't, like, it's not for, who am I?
Like, no, like, I'm not any different than anybody else.You know, like, I'm no better, I'm no worse, I'm equal, but there's a bigger picture and there's like a bigger, a much bigger picture at hand, for sure, for me, what I believe in.Yeah.
When you're acting or you're singing or you're writing your books, do you feel like God flows through you?Oh, yeah.Or do you ask him to?
Oh, yeah.Yeah.Oh, yeah.All the time, like, please, Jesus, please, God, everybody, just help me.Because I don't want to do it from an ego place. Like, I don't want to do it because I want an accolade or I want approval.I'm like, what?
Everything always like, what is my intention?Why am I doing this?What is the why?Like, why?And for me, like with the children's book, it was really like, I wish I had a book like this when I was a kid.
And it's also sort of a little homage to my grandmother and what she cultivated in me.
And if it wasn't for my grandma, I still know that she's praying for me, like storm in the heavens every day for me, because there are so many times I'm like, how did I get through this?Or how do I navigate this?But yeah, I definitely ask for help.
How do you know God exists?
That is a question that I even ask my friends.We have these big conversations.It's so weird, because I could say I know because I feel it, but I also know because I see it.I see it in people and in situations and things that, I mean, even,
My brother-in-law's grandfather had a massive heart attack and they were like, there's no way that he's coming back from this. And he has, and I'm like, okay.
So if I choose to believe in miracles and believe that that is God and the hand of God, that's what I choose to believe, but I've just seen so many things happen.I'm like, how can I deny it?Like, what?How could you deny it?
So I guess that's the answer.
How does, do you ever hear him talking to you or feel it, like still small voice intuition stuff?Oh, sure.Have you ever heard him audibly or seen?
Sometimes it's through other people, you know, or like I'll ask a question and I'm like, God, I need you to be so like precise, like point my head in the direction, like whatever, whatever, stand on the shoulder, like whatever, make it clear.
And certainly somebody will say something, I'm like, oh, wait, what? Wait, what's that?And then I'll question it.I'm like, no, no, that was it.That was it.Like, it just came from somebody else.
Like, I definitely feel like I've heard it in a small voice, but then I don't trust myself.So then I'm like, if it comes from someone else, I'm like, oh, maybe that's what it is.
Or if it's, you know, continual and I keep hearing it, I'm like, oh, okay, okay, okay.All right, all right, all right.You know, sometimes I just need to be told over and over to, Believe it.
Which is hard.Do you?Oh my gosh, yeah.I went through like two decades of doubting God exists.
And someone had given me this advice that, you know, why don't you try, if he created the whole universe, she said, what makes you think he can't handle your doubt?Try praying and telling him.
You're doubting him to show up in your life, to prove to you he exists, beyond a shadow of a doubt.And so for all these years, I started praying.
When I'd pray for my friends or health or whatever was going on, I'd finish it and say, God, by the way, I'm doubting you exist.So if you could please show up in my life and prove me wrong, beyond a shadow of a doubt, I'd be so grateful.
In Jesus' name, amen.And literally, Chrissy, it didn't happen that day, but over time, there have been so many times in my life, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt,
that he exists and I feel like I remember you know I'm adopted and I went through these many years of trying to search for my birth mom and my birth dad and I finally found my birth mom and then I spent you know the last decade even still to this day sometimes I will get online just searching for him just trying to find who he could be where you know and I have little tiny bits of information and
After a few years of this, there was like a particular moment in my life where I was really down, like I was in a lot of pain.I was like, well, am I ever gonna find my dad?Am I ever gonna find my dad?And when I do, will he love me?
Because I also have other people in my life, like you, who have abandoned me more than once, who are family.And that double abandonment, that's the, that you had mentioned earlier, that's just, and so I was in this really tough spot in my life and
I remember one night I was up overnight just searching, going down a rabbit hole online and I was in tears and all of a sudden it hit me so hard that I am spending all this time searching for my father, but I know who my real father is.
And it was like this moment I felt like take over my whole body, like so, where it was like, I'm okay, I'm held, I know who my real father is.
And it almost felt like, I felt this weight of what am I searching for and why kind of lift, like I already know in a way what I need to know.And it made me feel...
hopeful and and you know just sharing it now I'm almost thinking of of everyone who maybe doesn't have a relation doesn't have the kind of relationship they wish they did or doesn't even know their father and it's like I feel um so blessed for faith in my life yeah because like I don't just like you I do not know what I'd be doing without it right I can tell you with a
billion percent certainty, I would not have grown a billion dollar business from my living room.
I would not have been able to endure the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of rejections if I did not have faith in my life, if I didn't know who's I am, if I didn't know who's walking into every room with me like I wouldn't have.
So yeah, yeah, I think we share that.So good.Will you tell me about, okay, You are this like a multi-talented force, this multi-talented force.Number one New York Times best-selling author.I love this book.When I talk to God, I talk about you.
We walked into the show today and your music is playing and we're all singing.You seem to do it all.Can you talk about, you know, now in your life?
the role that music is playing because you're in Nashville now and releasing music and just sort of like kind of share with us a glimpse into the world, the heart, the soul, the essence right now at this moment that is Chrissy Metz?
Well, it's interesting because it's uncomfortable to hear myself sing, but I love singing so much.I love it so much.Like I would do it if I never got paid.I would do it by myself.I love music.I love listening to music.I love creating it.
I love writing music.Um, And it's difficult because I was with a label for a few years and I was about to go on tour and then that didn't happen because of a pandemic and everybody was in that situation.
And then it was like we never got on the right page together and I felt like I wasn't chosen again. And so leaving the label, which is difficult, trying to be an independent artist, I'm choosing myself.
And not because I think I'm an amazing singer, not because I'm like, oh, I'm gonna make millions of dollars, just because I wanna write music and I wanna share it with people.
And it might not look the way I thought it was going to look or I'm not some big country commercial radio success.And who knows if I ever will be.Who knows if I'll ever have a number one single.I don't know.
But I know that I love making music and that's what I want to do.And I want to write with people who music means something to them.
And that's how I want to be in business with everybody, whether I'm writing a coming-of-age story or a one-woman show or whatever it is that I want to do, I want to do it with people that are choosing me, who get it, who want to put the extra energy or the effort into it, who believe in me.
Because we want people to believe in us. So I'm having a hard time with that right now because I feel like I should have a certain amount of success.But there's also this idea that like, oh, not every actor thinks that she can sing.
Why do actors have to come into the music business?And I'm like, oh, like, why not?Why can't people want to do multiple things?Like, we're not one thing.Could you imagine? There's just no way anybody's one thing.
And so even here you say like multi-talented, I'm like, oh, this is so creep.Like that is a little cringe for me.That makes me. What is talent?You know what I mean?Like, what is talent?Is it the ability to do something?Is that talent?
Because I think talent has this connotation of like, not everybody can do it.And I don't know if that's necessarily true.Because like, is it just because it was cultivated?Was it a gift given to me?
Is it, yeah, I'm really having like this weird, these weird questions about it.
One of my vocal coaches, she's like, what do you admire in Adele?And I'm like, oh my God, that she's funny and that she's also very deep and very sincere, but sings about, she's like, yeah, you admire that because you have that.And I'm like, huh?
What are you talking about?I don't know what you're talking about.And she's like, Chrissy, what?Like what you admire in other people, it's typically what you see in yourself, which, what is that concept?What the heck?
And so, I don't know, it's just, I don't know why I feel so cringe about it.Do you have an issue with the word talent, because you feel like it's judgmental and exclusive, exclusionary?Yeah, I think so.
Maybe then a good definition is like, talent is like, channeling. Okay.Right.Okay.Okay.Okay.You know what, you know, maybe that's a better thing.You know how like the best dancer in the dance for any party is not the most technically trained.Sure.
Like the one who most fully commits.Yeah.Like makes you feel something.Yes.You feel something like just fully like heart open soul first connected.Yeah.Maybe that's a good definition of talent.Yeah.
I would say you do that when you sing, when you write, when you act, do you feel that you do?
Um, I like to be present.So if I'm hopefully making somebody feel something, then that makes me very happy.
Um, I don't want my ego involved in thinking like, cause the first sometime I, you guys, I literally, I literally woke up one day and I was like, I'm never going to be Adele. I know, I know.
I was like, my friend was like, you don't want, you're not Adele.Adele's not you and you're not Adele.I'm like, I know, but I'm never gonna be her.It was such a weird, I can't explain.And I was like, I don't need to be her.
She's her and we get to have her and we get to celebrate her and love her.But what is that about?Do I have a need to want to be the best?And why do I need that?I don't need that.Can't I just share what I want to share?
And to your point, how do you measure the best?Is it vocal quality?Or is it what people feel?
Or is it what they connect to?You can't measure it.Right.You can't measure that.And the comparing, despairing thing is just for the birds anyway.It doesn't make any sense.
So, yeah, I just, I do it, and I remind myself I do it, do whatever I wanna do creatively, because I love it.Because it's hard.You have to love something in order to continue with it, because otherwise, forget it.
You give up because you're like, eh, it doesn't mean enough to me.So, yeah, I mean, I'm just trying to do that, and I always try to come from a place that I'm feeling, and I want it to be authentic. Yeah, and I just love it.I love music so much.
I love being creative.So I'm just trying to do that.
If you imagined turning down the volume on all of your self-doubt and your thoughts and turning up the volume on your soul and your knowing, what would a one-woman Chrissy Metz show look like?
Well, I think it would really be about the highs and lows and the in between and like what in my life shaped me to be the woman that I am and humor, you know, a lot of, a lot of humor, a lot of, um,
just fun, but also like really heavy emotional stuff.And I mean, that's sort of the name of, that's the nature of life, you know, is the duality of like when something really exciting happens, something really difficult might happen.
Like my mom was coming to be my date for the Emmys and she had a stroke the day before she was leaving.And you're like, that is, I mean that's life.Life on life's terms and that is hard.
But everybody can relate to it because we're not exempt from the hardships but we're also not exempt from the joy.So I think it would just be like Yeah, all of that.
That's what I want it to be.So we'll see.Well, you talk about fun.I remember after I did a thousand live shows on KVC for eight years, I wore my hair the same every time.
I remember not being able to wait to like change up my look when I left and all that.And when we were starting our conversation today,
you had this great big smile and I just noticed on your teeth, okay, we've got to talk about this because this might be the coolest thing ever.Okay, so on your tooth, your second from the front, can you explain this beautiful bedazzling situation?
Yes.So when I was a teenager, first of all, like I wanted to do all sorts of things.Like I wanted a tattoo.I wanted to shave the back of my head.Like I wanted all these cool things.In the 90s, you know, there are all sorts of trends.
And I really wanted a tooth gem.And my mom was like, absolutely not.No, no.
And I'm like, but why?Will you explain a tooth gem for anyone who's watching?What is that?They're listening and they don't know.
Sure.So typically it's like a type of crystal.You can get a diamond if you'd like.This I think is like a type of crystal.It's just placed on whatever tooth you want with dental glue.So it's not permanent.
You don't like drill a hole in your tooth or anything.
into your teeth right now.No, no, no.
It's absolutely removable and typically they only last, I mean they can last from varying times of a month or a year or whatever, but it's just dental glue.It's like what you would put with for braces, just adhere to the tooth, not permanent.
And so when we were, I was doing the Today Show and I literally looked like a school teacher walking into this really cool Soho little shop.It's like a tattoo, tooth gem shop.And this really cool English girl was like, Okay, right.
So have you had a tooth gem before?And I was like, no.And she's like, right.Okay.So, and I'm like, but what is going to happen?Like, I'm scared, whatever.And I just wanted it forever.And so she's like, it's so easy.
Just going to apply it five seconds, whatever.I'm like, okay, great.And then of course, my tour manager at the time makes fun of me because he thinks I look like Joe Pesci from Home Alone as the police officer. So whatever.
Have I wanted a gold tooth before?Yes.Chris Stapleton has one.He makes it look amazing.And I think Billie Eilish does.
Although I'm like, you know, Chrissy, let's sort of, and I think I have to take it off because I'm doing a film in February in the UK.But yeah, I've just, I've always wanted it.And because it's not permanent, it feels fun.Can I see?Yeah.It's so cool.
It's like, bling.Yeah, some people are like, you have a, oh, what is that?
What is that on your teeth?Let me see again, let me see.
I literally was just telling my sister, like, maybe I take it off now, and she's like, no, why?
I love it, it's so pretty.It literally looks like a diamond on your teeth.
Yeah, and they have like different, you can do gold, you can do like shapes, you can do different cuts of an actual, I decided to do, and there's different varying sizes, and some people have them like on multiple teeth, but I was like, I just want like a little accent.
Like, I don't know.So yeah, I just, because I was Kate Pearson for six years, I was like, I'm gonna get my nose pierced, I'm gonna get to the gym, I'm gonna grow my hair out, I'm gonna change it this color, like just, you know, options.
All the stuff out right now.Yeah, yeah, yeah, why not?And because I wasn't committed to any role, I could do that, so.
Yeah, yeah, I love it.Did you do anything else, like wild, just grow your hair out?
No, I mean, I got my nose pierced again.I had it done when I was young, but no, nothing crazy.No, nothing, I don't think too crazy.Do you smile more with your tooth, Jim?I certainly don't have a problem showing it, that's for sure.
But it's very funny when people are like, I don't, is that, every time I'll do like a picture. They're like, what is, is it food?
I'm like, no, it's my tooth gem.
I'm like, you know, you put an earring in your ear.So I just put one on my tooth.
And it's so cool that it's like, you can actually just take it off when you want.Do you have to get it removed at the dentist?Sure.
I mean, yeah, you can, you can, it's just, you know.
Yeah.How many tattoos do you have?
Just three.Three.Yeah.I got this one with my, my sisters.So like one of each, like for each of us, XOXO.
And then I have a little anchor that was, um, ironically my dad was, and my brother were in the Navy, but it's really about like the symbolism of like, no matter what, like you're anchored in like who you are, no matter how rough the seas get, it's just sort of that.
And then I have like a, a treble clef, bass clef, like in the shape of a heart on my ankle for music, so.
Do you think you'll get more?
I don't know.You know, it's funny, because they're painful.People who say they aren't are lying.They're like, oh, it's relaxing.I'm like, what?This little baby thing?I was like, OK, OK, OK, I don't think I could do this.
And my sister, she actually got one, like a tribute to my stepfather on her arm.And I'm like, how?I don't get, like, how?And then I have friends who have them everywhere. Yeah, I don't know.
I think I do want actually I do think I want one that I just don't know when I do actually yeah, that's probably the last one I'll get.
It's gonna be Well, I don't know where I'm gonna put it but um Love is the answer because I feel like that is always the answer for me Love is the way or love is the answer.I think maybe love is the way but um, I
Because I think if we all came from that, we'd all be taken care of.That all would be good.So yeah, we'll see.I'll keep you posted.
Perfect.So you say paving the road for other women and men who know they're destined for greatness, but they don't believe it yet.Yeah. is something that you're called to do.Can you share a bit about that?
So many people are going to be listening right now, Christy.They're going to be listening to you, listening to me, and they don't know how to believe they have greatness inside of them.
I know they're destined for it. Well, I mean, I believe that like, if the miracle to be born, the things that have to come together for a person to make it onto the earth is like, so miraculous, I can't wrap my head around it.
So certainly you're called to this plane of existence for a purpose.Like you're purposeful just being born.And I also feel like even if you never accomplish anything, like that's enough.Like, you're enough.But if you'd like to, and you're purposeful,
Then you're deserving of chasing that and that if one person can do it and we're all equal then why couldn't somebody else do it and why can't somebody else pursue it and again my life doesn't make sense.
So if I can inspire people to know that like, if it didn't make sense for me, just, just say, okay, it doesn't make sense for, for you either, but it's going to happen and it can happen.
And I do believe that like what we give our attention to is what we create good and bad.And why not make it positive?Why not pursue what you want and what you love and you're worthy of it.Like you really, really are.
Like I know that you know that, but I think we sometimes need to be reminded and sometimes we do need people to believe in ourselves before we can believe in us before we believe in ourselves.And I know I did certainly.
And I think that was my grandmother, but there's somebody that will, there's somebody that does, even if we don't even know them.Um, yeah, I just, I just, like you are, you are worthy of it.You are deserving of it.
Really, really, really, like I really just strongly believe that.And it took me a long time too, because as you know, my story, and not that I don't doubt that and have questions, but like go back to how purposeful you are, because you're here.
It's not for not.It can't be.It just can't be.And because we are here for, I think, each other as well.When you get to be of service, it's so fulfilling.It's so rewarding.So for me, I'd love to aspire other writers or musicians or actors.
Just be supportive of their journeys like I'd love to have a production company at some point Maybe even a music label or a record label of sorts just because I love talent so much.I love people I love let's not say talent the ability to channel and
I love that, people pursuing what their passions are.So I'd like to do that for sure for people.
You talk about purpose and I think it's like so many people look for their purpose in something inside their job or this or that.
And I have found for so many people, it's like when we use the things we've made it through to help someone else make it through. We find this deep sense of purpose, right?
And I'm thinking about even just the millions of people that you help make it through their stuff because you're able to play this role based on a lot of things you've gone through in your life.You're able to understand
how a character might feel who doesn't feel enough or doesn't feel chosen or has different, you know, and then people are now healing through you and it's like you're helping other people make it through and now I'm hearing you even talk about the experience of parting with your label and now maybe starting your own because you love talent.
Like it's just such a beautiful evolution.
And I think it's so, I used to, you know, I did, you know, we're talking about this earlier off camera that a lot of people don't even know this at this point in my life, but I was in the first season of Big Brother and which is on CBS primetime six nights a week.
It was wild.I remember getting off that show.I remember moving to LA. By the way, I was the worst actor.I thought, oh, let me try to act for a minute.The worst.No, I'm not even kidding.This will make you laugh.
I don't know if I've ever shared this story.I thought I'll try acting.I was like 21.And so I made a lot of friends in LA, lived with different actors.Some of them were on big shows at the time.
And I'm going to audition after audition after audition, never getting a call back, never getting a call back.And this was this moment in time where reality TV was like brand new.
So all these big Hollywood agents wanted to rep every reality star, because at the very beginning they didn't know what was going to happen.Chrissy, I was so bad.This is how bad I was.Yeah, I'm the worst actor in the world.So no joke.
You know how they send down casting breakdowns to agencies, which is like, you know, so-and-so has a commercial.They want this type of a character, et cetera, et cetera.After me getting rejection after rejection after rejection for so long acting,
And you know when you're bad, like you're just, what I couldn't do was feel in flow and channel, for whatever reason I could not.And I was just trying so hard to do something that just wasn't meant for me.
And finally, I felt like my agents are gonna give up on me, right?This is a true story. Finally, a casting thing got sent down that AT&T was doing a commercial, and the character description was, like Jamie from Big Brother.That was the description.
And so my agents are like, yes!They send me out on it.I go out to audition for it.I don't get a callback past the first round. to play someone who they thought I was.That is how bad of an actor I was.So that was not destined for me.
But that's how bad I was.So I never did that.I never acted again after that first year in LA.But what I wanted to ask you, or bring up rather, was in that experience, I remember this.
I remember being around some of my friends at the time who had been on big shows, and I remember They had a similar experience that I had because I just walked off of Big Brother having been on CBS primetime six nights a week for three months.
hadn't earned any fame certainly, but all of a sudden I was getting this 15 minutes of fame.So everyone's coming up to me.
And the question they asked me over and over was the same question that people asked my friends who were on different shows at the time.Well, what are you doing now?What are you doing now?
Every single day to the point where I felt like I had to have some kind of answer, right? And it became, what are you doing now, became like my least favorite question of all time ever.And what's wild is because I watched how it impacted.
For me, I was brand new to this experience, but I watched my friends who many of them had been actors for a decade or two.
And I watched when every time they got asked this question, it was as if who they were wasn't enough, that they needed to have some kind of answer of something they're doing now or something they're doing next.
And I just watched it, and it felt like it just chipped away over and over and over.And for me, having gone through it, having done this show and then being so terrible at acting and having people come up to you, what are you doing now?
And I'm like, uh, I'm auditioning.Like, what are you doing now?I'm auditioning.And over and over and over.
And it helped me kind of realize this lesson that, oh my gosh, in our society, we're kind of taught to be human doings and feel like we have to be doing something or have an answer to what we're doing versus actually learning how to be.
And therefore, we perpetually, when we're only focused on doing, we perpetually feel like it's never enough.Because even if we're doing... Like right now, I'm launching my book, Worthy. In live interviews, I get asked, well, what's next?
What are you doing next?I'm like, I haven't even launched this now.It's like people's favorite question.And so now I cannot, I will never, ever, ever ask it because what I've learned is, and I spent like two decades just overachieving and trying.
trying to get a great answer to that question, because I thought that's what would make me happy, only to realize it doesn't.
And it's all about the things you and I have been talking about this whole episode of learning to be, learning to love yourself so that you can have the depth of love with others, learning to feel enough yourself so that when you sing on at the Grand Old Opry, or have a hit TV show, or whatever that version of your goal is in your life,
It's like, it's only when you're able to love yourself do you actually feel enough when you're experiencing all these awesome things you're going after.Like, that's the thing.Never like, what are you doing next?But like, how are you?
You know what I mean?How are you?So I just want to say Thank you so much to you for sharing how you are.How you are.
Because we all know all the things you do all day long and a lot of people maybe celebrate you for that because that's what they're trying to strive for in their own life because they haven't yet learned, oh wait, the real victory is just as I am right now, fully enough, which to your point, you are, I am, everyone listening is.
So beautiful, so powerful.Thank you. Oh, no, thank you.Thank you so much, Chrissy.
It's been emotional and fun and just good to see you.Well, every person who comes on the Jamie Kern Lima show gets a special gift.Every person.And I have one for you.
Oh, cute.So we have matching.So we match.So we match.So would you write on mine and I'll write on yours?Of course.Anything?Okay, let me take this.Yes. Oh my God, this is cute.This is cute.
I just started wearing these longer Spanx, by the way, and now they're showing under here.
I gotta like hike them up a little bit.
And I'm sitting here in sneakers and a dress.I got so happy.It's just the best.It's the best, right?
Like, you know, we like the best of both worlds.It's just like the best.
I love when you sing.I learned, I learned that from friends of mine that are singers and artists, et cetera.I've learned now, don't just ask anyone on the spot.So I held back, I held back.You have the most beautiful voice, by the way.
And I love that you just, you just sang.So now I feel like, okay.Okay, Chrissy Metz officially sang.Chrissy Metz sang on the show.I wrote two different messages.I wrote, you are loved and you are worthy.
Oh, thank you.That's funny, because I put, you are.
a stunning inspiration.Yeah, that's funny.You are a stunning inspiration.
Thank you.What a cute little thing I got.Mostly a reminder of something that's very important.So thank you.
That's very sweet.Thank you for being here.
Oh, no, thank you. I feel like we just hung out, but there are people in their living room.I know, that's how I feel too.I'm like, well, everybody knows everything about me now.
Thank you so much for joining me today.And before you go, I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true.You, right now, exactly as you are, are enough and fully worthy.
You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world.And it is an honor to welcome you to each episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show here
I hope you'll come as you are and heal where you need and blossom what you choose and journey toward your calling and stay as long as you'd like because you belong here.
You are worthy, you are loved, you are love, and I love you and I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kern Lima Show. If you love this episode, you want to make sure to subscribe.
Click on the notification so you'll be the first to get the very next episode.In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams.You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth.When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life.
And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy, how to believe you are enough and transform your life for you.If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you.
In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and simple steps that bring life-changing results, like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back, build unshakable self-love, unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt, and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness.
Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome.Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more.Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be?
Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth.Get your copy of Worthy, plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below.Imagine what you'd do if you fully believed in you.
It's time to find out with Worthy.Do you struggle with negative self-talk? Living with a constant mental narrative that you're not good enough is exhausting.I know because I spent most of my life in that habit.
The words you say to yourself about yourself are so powerful.And when you learn to take control over your self-talk, it's life changing.
And I wanted to give you a free resource that I created for you if this is something that could benefit your life.It's called 5 Ways to Overcome Negative Self-Talk. and build self-love.
And it's a free how-to guide to overcome that negative self-talk to build confidence and develop unshakable self-love so that you can dream big and keep going in the pursuit of your goals.
Don't let self-sabotaging thoughts hinder your progress any longer.It's time to rewrite the script of your life, one filled with self-love, resilience, and unwavering belief.
If you're ready to take charge of your narrative, build unwavering confidence, and empower yourself to persevere on the path to your dreams, you can grab your free guide to stop overthinking and learn to trust yourself at jamiekernlima.com slash resources, or click the link in the show notes below.
If this episode impacted you and you want more, click here.
