Welcome to Big Blend Radio's Eat, Drink & Be Merry show where we love to talk about food, drink, recipes and techniques and where to shop, taste and play.Let's go!
Hey, everyone, you know that November is that big month of Thanksgiving, how we start planning for it all month long for one day of feasting that goes beyond the day because then we have leftovers and that can continue on.
And you know, Thanksgiving, you know, the actual Thanksgiving weekend is right before December.So it's so interesting to see how Black Friday, you know, I think it all starts going into like, December this year, which is interesting.
Small Business Saturday, Cyber Monday, Giving Tuesday.So it's a really interesting month.So we're going to give you all the tips you need today with Chef Ivan Flowers.
You know, he's a five star chef, also a culinary instructor, teaching high school students out in Temecula in Southern California.He's going to give you the tips on getting the right turkey, how to prepare it.And he said, we must air this today.
So we're going to do it. right?We're recording on a Sunday.We're going to get it out tomorrow so that you have time to go purchase your turkey and do it right because nobody wants the wrong turkey.No, there's a lot.Are we actually going to do this?
We're going to air this before election day.Oopsie, I should not go there.But how are you, Ivan?
I'm, I'm good, Lisa.I'm good.
I know, because I'm doing good.But if we aired this after election day, we may have to talk about some other kind of turkeys.We don't know.Yeah.We're safe.We're safe doing it now.Yeah.But you know what, I love turkeys.
So, you know, I think turkeys are cool.I do want to start with the world of Turkey, like purchasing a turkey.Nancy and I
many years ago when we started our Love Your Parks Tour, I think it was back in 2012 or 2013, we went up to Tuolumne County, which is home to Yosemite National Park and places like Sonora, California, Gold Rush towns.
And while we were up there, we had the good fortune to visit with Distal Farms Turkey.And they do heritage turkeys heritage.
I mean, because from what I started to understand from them is that we've got to a point where one turkey fits all in this country.And we've actually lost some of our turkey breeds over the years, and through mass production of turkey.
I mean, nowadays, we just go to the grocery store, open the freezer, put a turkey in the cart, and off we go.But as a chef, have you heard anything about that in regards to turkeys?Are we just like one turkey fits all now?
Or we should support maybe those places like diesel farms?
I think supporting those places are important.Um, they're raising, are they selling?Yeah.But you know, they're probably a very minimally processed, I guess.Are they selling them fresh?Yes.
They're probably free range and yeah, I mean that affects not only the, you know, it affects the taste, it affects, you know, the happiness of the Turkey.I mean the whole thing.So I'm a big supporter for that versus,
you know, the big corporations pumping them out and, and, and processing them with, uh, injecting them with a lot of salt and a lot of fat for extra tenderness.But you know, you're getting a lot of sodium.You have to be careful.
Well, I know we interviewed them years ago, and I don't want to say expensive, like it's going to break the bank, but if you're on a budget and have a large family that you're feeding, you may not be able to do it.
Everyone's in a different boat, right?So I don't want to say that about the expense part with them, but it is going to be a little bit more.It always is.If you want organic, best-fed beef, you're going to pay a little bit more.That's my point on it.
But I think, you know, there are farms like this across the country, and if you can have that opportunity to do something locally, I don't know if you've got turkeys in your backyard in Southern California, but I bet you do.
Temecula has some amazing farms.At least try to do local first, right, before your big box store grocery shelf, maybe, if you can.You might find something.
Yeah. Now there's the whole turkey, right?And then you go in and you just mentioned the solution and everything.So how do we buy a turkey for Thanksgiving?
If we're looking at a family, like six to 10 people maybe getting together, how do you even start this if you've never done it before?Because you're talking to a person who has never, ever cooked, roasted a turkey in her life, ever.
It's actually very easy.You know, it's a big chicken and people, you know, they hear turkey and they get, they get wild, they get nervous.You want to figure about a pound and a half of turkey per person.
So there are some people, you know, they're not, they don't want to buy a 25 pound turkey.They'll buy two 16 pound or 16 to 20 will give you a better meat ratio off the bone, uh, 16 down.
you end up with not that much meat, 16, 20 up, you get more breast meat, thighs are bigger, drumsticks are bigger.Um, you want to look at something minimally processed and it'll explain it on the label.
You don't want turkeys that are heavily injected with sodium and, and fat and solutions.Some people will say, they'll look and it says, Oh, it's a 15% solution.Oh, the 15%. It's not that much.Well, it is actually.
And you know, you don't need all of that added.Some people will brine their Turkey overnight, which is basically a, you know, a salted water with herbs and different things.And you can brine it and then kind of rinse it.
That will not only help it be a little more tender, it gives it a lot, a lot of flavor.So, uh, read the label, really read the label.There's some great brands out there that do minimally processed turkeys. I prefer frozen over fresh.
Um, I never had a lot of success with fresh turkeys in the supermarket.Um, tried it a few times and you know, they kind of did in their own juice and they didn't exactly smell great.You know, it was hitting, it was hitting mess.
Um, some supermarkets will, will actually take turkeys and defrost them. and they can put them out as fresh.There was a big write up a couple of years ago.
You know, people were thinking they were getting fresh turkeys and what they were getting when they opened up the packages, all the, the water and the juice and the blood were coming out because it had been defrosted.So you have to be careful.
Hmm.Well, that's interesting to me too, because even thinking about chicken, I've seen that where you go to buy a chicken and it's like, it's floating in its own juices, but it's not like, and it's, and it's felt weird to me.
It just kind of was like, are you floating in blood?Like, what is this?Like, and you can't see, especially if it's like not in a clear bag.You're like, what's going on in there?That's weird.
So, and you can ask the person, you know, in the store, in the butchery department, like what's going on.
you can't ask them, you know, and I think sometimes we forget to have that communication when we go to the store, we just kind of focus on, are we, you know, doing our list and we forget that there are people there to help us and we can ask them and see what's a good thing.
So, okay, you've got the pounds down.So I have a, I know you're going to say it's not a stupid question because there's no stupid questions, but this is my stupid question.So when you talk about pounds,
So are they talking about, this is like a stupid question, frozen or unfrozen?Because if you're buying the frozen, is it like, are they putting the pounds from when it was unfrozen, right?And so when you defrost it, okay.
So is the pounds, are the pounds going to change?Now I feel like I need to go do an SAT course here.Now, Do the pounds include the solution?That's, you know, just gotta ask.
You know, that's a really, really good question.Oh, wow.I would, I would think with an educated guess that it would, that if they inject the turkey with any kind of solution, they're going to do a catch weight on the total pounds.So yes.
And also that's profitable.They're going to make more money.It's like a corn beef that gets pumped for St.Patty's day. you know, and it's got all the liquid in it, you're gonna make a lot more money.
I would think the catch weight is with the solution for sure.Yeah, they make more.
I have one friend who will wash meat out.Like she brings it home, and like if it's corned beef or something like even the turkey, she's like, I wash all my meat, because I don't want any solution.And I go, but aren't you taking stuff out?
She goes, no, I wash it. And then she will go and rub olive oil into the meat.And if it's got a lot of fat, she'll scrape the fat out and then put olive oil as a replacement and massage it into the meat.
And she's been on podcasts and she's like, you rub it in.And I'm like, are you massaging the meat?She goes, I am. But I mean, is this a doable thing?She's happy with it, you know, to do that.
Yeah.Yeah.I mean, well, especially let's say you're doing a lean beef, right?That doesn't have a lot, a lot of marble.You don't want all that fat.You're doing something that's very, very lean.
And if it's got some outer fat, you cut that off and you're adding a healthy fat into the meat versus having the heavy marble, which is a saturated fat.So yeah, that's actually very smart.
So, because that's a thing I think a lot of us, I shouldn't include myself, should not, are going on the more of a healthier way of doing things.
I mean, the younger generation too, just, I shouldn't say the younger generation either, because it just seems like people, we're living longer, so we better take care of ourselves.If we wanna live longer, let's be happier.
So, you know, we don't need to be having heart attacks at 30 or 40 years old, and it does happen.
So it's about, I think, you know, when I say the younger generation, they're starting like when I was in my 20s and 30s, we didn't care, you know, but I'm seeing 20 and 30 year olds caring now compared to when I was that age.
I think it's a good thing. You're doing your part in teaching the generation of now today, like there's this over here, the fast food.But here you can actually make this fast food really in a different way and it'll taste better.
So this is what's so great about turkey to doing your Thanksgiving.How many people are doing it this year for the first time?I wish I could see a show of hands because it's like I think it's exciting and scary at the same time to do.
So you're going to go and get your first turkey, you know, You explained the pounds, now you're gonna figure out how many people per pound, right?
And here's my thing, you do want leftovers, because why not pay a couple extra bucks so that you have leftovers so you can just do all kinds of cool things afterwards, you know what I mean?
Sometimes it's the best part, yeah.
Yeah, and that's kind of like if you're looking at a budget, you may not be paying too much more to get a couple extra pounds, right?
So it might be worthwhile just going for the whole turkey. you know, the big turkey boy, um, and sometimes you might have to buy more than one.Oh boy.We need to talk about that.Ivan, how do you balance that out?
Well, I know, you know, you, you, you, I was just going to say, yeah, I mean, do you have more than one oven?
If you, let's say if you get a 25 pound turkey and you put it in a roasting pan, all of a sudden you open up your oven and if you're in a smaller place, it doesn't fit. So, you know, you have to, you have to look at the dimensions of all of that.
You know, I've known people that, you know, when I, I do the, I used to do the celebrity chef, Turkey hotline and they would, you know, call in the morning and they were just insane that, you know, having all these problems, you know, I have a 28 pound Turkey, it's completely frozen.
What do I do?Run to the supermarket and get a fresh one.You're a week away from defrosting that.
Yeah, we need that's why chef Ivan wanted us to do this early because he does he wants you number one to not have People in the the aisle of the supermarket, you know stealing all the toilet paper and pasta and rice But also the turkeys because you never know right so get your turkey early Right, and there's a defrosting time.
But then also you need to know if your turkey will fit in the oven So that's a big Wow, I never thought about the turkey not fitting in.Yeah.
Oh, you might have to hacksaw this thing.So you do need it right across it.Okay.So okay, so the defrosting thing, you said they need to just go to the store and good luck on that.And you pay for I don't know.
But if you're if you are in trouble with the size of your turkey,
you just say cut it you just get the the saw out or what like what happens you yeah you would probably dismember you know do the leg quarters and do the breast separately and put them you know parallel to each other and get it in the oven that way.
I mean, it would certainly work, you know, at that point.
Yeah, you're going to have a butchery lesson right there and then.So at that point, you are allowed to break out the wine, even if it's nine in the morning, right?
You have coffee with you're allowed in it.Yeah.
So let's go back to purchasing the turkey.So we're looking at I think most people do the frozen.And this is the day off and you're in like, oh, I'm in deep doo doo.
And listen, if you have to do chicken breasts at the last second, that's what you do, because really it's about being thankful.And if you can't do turkey, it's just not, it's not gonna be the end of the world.It'll be memorable.
Make fun of it, you know, but make sure you have good pie.Like if your turkey sucks, make sure you have good pie, right?And you know, definitely have wine.So purchasing the turkey,
So you should actually do a measurement of your stove before you bring the turkey home.
Sure, why not?Bring a tape measure.
Yeah.So when you're cooking, because then you have to look at, people go, oh, I can put it at the lower grill level, right? but maybe you shouldn't.And that's okay.
If you're going to do it on the lower grill, because isn't that going to make it hotter or no, like for the Turkey to cook faster or does it matter what level of oven that you're putting your Turkey in?
No, you kind of want to stay in the middle.So you get the centralized heat.You know, there are some people that they'll have a row, you know, a roasting pan.So you want to measure your roasting pan.
And if the Turkey fits in it and the roasting pan fits in your oven, you're fine. And then some people have a roasting pan and it's got a handle on each side and they go to get it in and they go, I can't get it in.The handle is hitting the side.
What am I going to do now?So you want to be prepared for everything, you know, because not everyone has gigantic range ovens.
how?Yeah, because I, you know, as we travel the country, we see all kinds of kitchens and all kinds of things.And then there's the whole world of the induction stove.
Right?Well, well, that's not a fan.Not a fan.
Not a fan.That's a whole other podcast.I don't know what goes on. in the oven.Yeah, I got I've now know the stove top.I got it.Yeah.
Well, the stove top is what I was talking about where you can actually take the pot off and you put your hand on it.You don't feel the heat. To me, that's really bizarre.And then you put the pan back on and it gets instantly hot.That tricks me out.
I'm like, that freaks me out.Yeah.
It's a whole, well, I think it's a good thing if you have kids, but then I don't think it is because then the kids think, you know, you want to teach your kids like hot, cold, not like on and off.It's a whole other, no.
And it only takes certain cookware and yeah.
Yeah.They use it on boats especially.Yeah.
They don't want flames on boats.
That makes sense.And then there's induction and then there's a convection thing.So what's the convection?
Well, the convex is a fan.That's what we have at school.A lot of them are convex and they're wonderful.It's a big air fryer.And what it does is it's got a high and low setting and it's got a big fan in the back and it circulates the air.
and you end up cooking things more evenly and more quickly.I love a convex oven, especially when you want to brown something and you want to turn it up to 500 and you want to put on the fan really high and you get a beautiful browning very quickly.
You have to watch them though because they go fast.
Well I had no clue.All I know is you have these different departments and I go you know I'm gonna make a salad tonight or order a pizza.Because even sometimes cooking a pizza we're like I don't know.I don't know when I want to touch this.
Well convection, you know here's all these words and we're like I don't know, I don't know.But I have probably googled every appliance on the planet at this point because I look at it before I try to do it because I
Uh, you don't want to be the cause of blowing up someone's house, you know, as we travel, but let's go, let's go back to, okay.So.Your oven has to do with the cocaine, obviously.
Um, and then, you know, make sure about the sizes and everything, but you did mention, which is why we're airing this now is that you're going to have to let your turkey defrost for quite a while, especially having to do the size.
Yes, yes, at least a week and sometimes more, at least a week and sometimes more.If it's a big bird, if it's 23, 25 pounds, you should get it 10 days before.
And, um, because the, the, the most important thing is when you defrost the Turkey, you want to get it to a point where you get it ready two days before, because the trick is when you, um, when the Turkey is defrosted, you take it out.
of the plastic, you want to put it in the refrigerator, remove all the giblets, by the way, and don't forget about the neck, the part in the front of the breast.They put giblets in there and they sometimes put giblets in the cavity.
So you want to get it out and you want to have it in the refrigerator for two days.And what that does is it dries out the skin.So you're going to get really, really extra crispy kind of showpiece.
By the time you're finished cooking turkey, this goes a long way, really long way.
Wow.Okay.So you want to take the, and, and sometimes I put those giblet things in a little baggie so you don't end up cooking that, you know, just saying, well, it's happened, hasn't it?Oh yes.
On that, on that call, I remember you doing it when, when you were on shows, you know, way back when and going, okay, let everyone know I'll be on the call.
And I'm going, has anybody called you drunk saying I left a bag of giblets in the turkey and cooked it?Have you had that?
Yes, yes.I once had a guy call and he had a live turkey.He asked me how to know how to slaughter the turkey, how to get the fat.I was like, I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, have a drink and hang up.Yeah, somewhere.No, I know that you're not out there killing the turkey.That's not that's not Ivan call for for sure.No, no.But yeah, so the giblet thing, but can you I mean, I know a lot of people like
you can take some of that and make juice for your animals, but be careful because of bones and animal necks and everything.I know dogs shouldn't have chicken bones.I know we've lost an animal over that.I was someone throwing it over the fence.
Thank you very much, people.And they thought they were just feeding our dogs.Oh, we got some extra.It wasn't mean, but it didn't end up well.
So be careful of that kind of thing with your animals, with like bendy bones, like the chicken breast bone, that like the wishbone is not necessarily something you want your dog to get a hold of at all.No.So just a pointer on that.
So you take the giblets out, you rinse them, you dry them, but you're still going to cook them, right?You're still putting it in there.
Yeah, I do.I cook them separately.I roast them.Yeah.I don't do the stomach. because it's very, very chewy.I do the liver and I do the neck.
So when you're talking about the skin drying out for a good browning, it's because you took the giblets out?
No, you want to take the giblets out after it defrosts, especially the liver, because if you leave the liver in after it defrosts, it can actually, you can make the inside cavity taste a little bit, like a mineral taste.
So once you defrost, pull your giblets out.Don't leave them in.
Okay.Okay.So the giblets are out and they could be used for soups and stuff, right?
Oh, sure.You can make stock.You can make soups.Yeah.You can just eat them.You can make chopped liver.What about the livers?
I think we used to give the livers to our dogs.That's what we used to do.
Oh, I used to, we used to make chopped liver with eggs and sauteed onions and you'd chop it up. Oh, I love chopped chicken liver.It's almost like a pate and you have it on good French baguettes.Wonderful.You can make pates out of them.
Wow, okay, so there it is.Turkey, not chicken.Turkey liver, not chicken liver, but do you do it with chicken?
Oh, chicken liver too, oh yeah.Oh, all the time, chicken liver.Turkey livers, duck livers, sure.
So when you're doing the pate, are you cooking the liver first, right?You are.
You are, you are, yeah.And if you do the French pate, you're sauteing it, and you're actually adding cream to it, and roasted onions, and it's very decadent.
you know, French liver pate is like, when you eat it, you go, Oh my God, this is so smooth and wonderful.But wow, it's like, just do a little bit.
Yeah, it's yeah, the liver, I had the last time I had liver was in Louisiana.And we had boudin, which is like, Oh, You know what I'm talking about, it's French.
It's sausage and rice, but it's got, they make hogs, it's basically taking parts that you don't wanna play with, and they make it and it's a delicacy.And we had hogshead cheese and liver pate, as they say, liver pate.
And I just sit there and go, you will do this, Lisa.You will grow up and do this.And I did it. And I was like, you know what?I had to change my mindset to make myself do it.And it was not as bad as your mindset thinks.Like it's just not as bad.
And I think it's something that grows on you.Like as a kid, I didn't want coffee, right?And then now I love my coffee.So it's a quiet taste, I think.Like I eat Marmite and most people don't.
Yeah, and it's nice to see every part of the animal is going to be used, you know for food Not that nothing should be wasted nothing No, no, that's that to me is one of the most important things is that we don't waste and if you can eat it Do it if you know, but you wouldn't put liver in a soup, or would you?
No, no.No, it would be weird.No, no, that would be the most part, you know liver you don't want to eat a lot of it anyway, because it's a It's a filter, you know, it filters out toxins through the body.
So that's, you know, when I was a kid, the doctors were like, you need liver, eat liver and onions.And now they're like, well, you know, liver is not exactly the best thing for you.
So it's one of those things, few and far between once in a while, you don't want to eat too much of it.
It was like foie gras, right?They did that.That's not, that's not nice.
No, I would never touch it.I show the, I show the students, the films, You know, and it's, it's a wild because, you know, they come through and they clip their feathers and they're force fed and they can't even walk.
And I'm like, you know, this was done for Napoleon.This was invented for Kings delivers 10 times the size.I always say animals should never, you don't, Animals should not suffer for food.That's exactly, they should not suffer.
So veal and foie gras and a lot of other things I haven't and would never touch again, ever.
Well, if you look at the natural kingdom, right?
You know, Nancy and I lived in Kenya and South Africa and, you know, in my childhood she worked in wildlife conservation and we lived in the bush for like three years studying and looking at wildlife and, you know, and
So we would see animals kill each other, right?And people freak out, like, oh, that's so gross.You want to save the animals.And this is actually the biological way of the web of life, right?The animals everybody eats.But it is so fast.
And it is so skilled when you watch it.I mean, you watch how animals train each other. and even the people there that are hunting for bushmeat for food are skilled and everything is about precision and quickness.
Absolute precision has to happen because it's about not suffering.Some cats are a little wonky on the suffering part, I will say that.That's some truth, and you know cats.They'll play with an animal tail and they'll do some weird things, but
about killing of the animals it's it's a very um we're we're here to eat and we're going to do this as fast as we can so that we we are successful in this hunt and the animal doesn't suffer as long.It's very, very fast.
And if you get to witness that, there's an amazement with it.It's not about, it's gotta be like that for cooking too.You can't freak out about the meat.
And a lot of people do freak out like, oh, I'm touching meat and there's blood and there's all of that.And as a chef, even cooking lobster, right?There's this weird, thing.
So if you're going to eat meat or prepare meat of any kind, of any kind of animal product for someone, there's going to be this portion of understanding that that has happened in our systems and cycles for years.
And I don't want to get into vegan, non-vegan and all of that because
everybody has their belief system of what they want and we respect all of it here on this show for sure and you know I've been vegan and all of that but almost pretty much vegetarian you know in our lifestyle but not 100 percent.
There's bacon so that's not going to happen but I'm talking about like the quickness of it and it's quick so that the suffering is little and that's the point and that's why I think in society
at times we've derailed from the quickness of it and then making use of everything.So livers and everything like you're talking about, that's about utilizing something.I mean, we fed the dogs livers, right?
That was utilizing it and they got something really, oh, they loved it, right?But be careful of the neck thing and all that. But the giblets, that's something good that you can use in stews and all of that, right?
But as a chef, do you have to do that, especially as a culinary instructor, help people get past the butchering?Because people may be having to butcher some of their turkey pre-being cooked.
For some reason, after it's cooked, it's okay, but it's the pre-cooking that people freak out on the blood and everything.
Yeah, we go through all of that.Poultry, beef.Yeah, for sure.Butcher fabrication.
Any tips on people getting through it if they're scared about cutting meat and doing that?
I don't, I never make a student do anything they don't want to.Like a couple of years ago I was showing them, they were getting ready to fabricate chickens into, you know, like 14 piece cuts.And then a young man passed out when I simply, um,
cut the chicken and broke the bone in the middle to cut it in half that, that cracking, he passed out.So we revived him and he was fine, but that was way too much for him.And I said, you know, do you eat chicken?He goes all the time.
And I said, well, you don't have to do this, but this is, you know, what you're eating.This is how it's done.This is how it's cut, how it's cooked, how it's served.So he came around and he enjoyed, enjoyed, but you know, I, I never,
force anyone to do anything they don't want.I never forced them to taste anything.Although I said, maybe you should try this.You might be a little surprised.And then they do.And they went, wow.You know, I never knew.
I mean, I had kids afraid of concrete tomatoes a few years ago.The new, the new generation, I have a lot of ninth graders and 10th graders.They're open to everything.They want to try everything.
It's interesting because it's really the cycle of life, huh?How our history repeats, you know, because we were doing this as kids on farms a hundred years ago.Now we have to learn like again, right?And, you know, it was
you know a hundred years ago kids were on farms you know actually slaughtering the meat right or hunting for the food.
So it has been this interesting cycle and I think this is actually a very good portion of this conversation today because when we think about Thanksgiving and giving thanks you know we've got to think about the animals too you know and we've got to think about that cycle and
Thank the farmers and the people that raise the food and you know, who's growing those sweet potatoes or yams?You can have that argument another time, but you know, who's who's made it possible?so, you know, it's like every time we do something it's
It's coming from another source.Everything we do is from another helping hand in some way.And that includes our food.There's no such food without someone helping us with the ingredients to do that.Or who made your knife?Or who made your oven?
Is it the right size?Anyway, but you know what I'm saying.So when we do this, I think the fact that we may have to wait this week or more for it to defrost is kind of a mindfulness with this food.
Like you're really getting yourself ready for this feast.And so it's a really nice thing other than what's going on in day-to-day life to have something different to focus on.
And you know something that's about Thanksgiving and celebration and gratitude and family and friends and love.So this is kind of cool that it's in there.If it's in your fridge for a week, It's kind of like a gestation period.Yeah, at least.
So you can't speed it up, like putting it in hot water or anything like that?
No, no, that's the worst thing you can do, because that actually starts to cook part of the skin and part of the meat.Yeah.I mean, no, like the safest way is always slowly in a refrigerator.
Then, you know, there are some people that they'll run water on it, but, you know, you got to go like 12, 14 hours. where you're running it slowly and it's not good, not good.You gotta prepare ahead of time.
All right, so everyone hear that.This is why we're airing it early.Okay, so how do you know when the turkey is all the way defrosted because it could be like still frozen a little bit on the inside, right?Because this is a big bird.
Yes, you pick it up You move the legs around so you know that there's not any ice crystals.You put your hand in the cavity.You make sure there's no ice crystals in the cavity.Sometimes you'll find a small piece of ice in the middle.
You pull it out, you dry it, and you'll feel it.You'll melt.It's also gonna release a little bit of liquid, so you'll see that as well.
See I'm glad we had this other conversation before this because that could freak some people out.So you're doing good, good preparation here.
So you're going to stick your hand in the cavity basically and feel inside there and be prepared for what you feel.
Okay.And you could dry it out.Would you put like a paper towel in there to dry it out or do you just let it be as it is?
Yeah, you could.Absolutely.And you don't want it sitting in its own juice.
You know, you want to make sure when you go back into whatever pan that, you know, it's not juice on the bottom, but that important thing of drying that skin, uh, really makes for showpiece Turkey.
Okay.So everyone, you want the off factor.This is basically the whole thing is this is not the time for it to be moist.You want this Turkey to be dry. And then the voice comes from cooking.Yes, dry and ready.
Okay, so the night before, like your Turk, so how do you know how long it's gonna defrost?Like how long is it gonna take?
Because you don't wanna still be frozen the morning that you're gonna get up at three in the morning or some ungodly hour to do this.How do you prepare so you don't screw up?
I would do a 16 to 20 pound bird seven to eight days before that leaves you two days to dry out the skin.Um, and if your Turkey is still a little frozen, you'll, that skin will still dry out.If you're 20 pounds and up, I would go at least 10 days.
If you're 23, 24 pounds, 10 days.
Okay.And you're just keeping it inside the fridge in a pan is in the pan that you're going to cook it in.Do you cover it?
No.Um, no, you don't cover the turkey.
You want it dry?Yes.And it's people don't want to.
They don't want to, they don't want to kind of like, yeah, it's preparation.You know, it's like, why am I doing this so far ahead?Because she's going to pay off.
Okay.And you want it two days before Thanksgiving to be done so you don't have a drama.And now it's going to, you've taken the giblets out because now the giblets and the livers are defrosted.You've taken them out.
You're going to do something, whatever, what you want to do with that.And now it's going to sit and dry.So then, yeah, because it, it's going to get all like tight and all that.And the fat's going to get all like neat.
And then you're going to say, OK, it's time.Then you take it out of the fridge.And everyone, Chef Ivan has a wonderful list of notes for you to read.It's linked from the episode notes.Or just go to blendradiontv.com and type in turkey Ivan.
I didn't say Ivan the turkey.I said turkey Ivan.You'll find it.Just the search term.Ivan is not a turkey.He's amazing.It's just a search term. I'm not appropriating anything here.So anyway, you go on there.It's there.So but this is so cool.
So you bring this out.Okay.But you say it has to be out of there for two hours, at least before we roast.
At least you don't want to go in like a cold, cold, cold bird two hours.
You don't wanna be cold turkey, man.No cold turkey in there.
You don't wanna be cold turkey, no.And then you wanna rest it for at least an hour when it comes out.You wanna tent it and you wanna rest it.That bird will still be plenty hot when you go to cut into it.It's gotta rest.
Okay, so okay, the resting thing, you've talked about that for years on the show.You take something out of the oven, it needs to rest.And even pizza, taking pizza out of this oven, you're like, let it rest.
Yeah, trust me because I don't want to tell you what I did to our pizza last night.It did not like no Only like me the next morning of the leftovers and I'll tell you the leftovers were delicious So but Last night was not good.
Let it rest So you want it to to rest before it goes into the roasting oven?So is that so it gets into room temperature?
Okay, so why, why does frozen pizza want you to keep it frozen before you put it in the oven?I don't understand this.It says no, keep your pizza frozen until you put it in the oven.I don't understand that.And I never listened to it.
Yeah, I think it's like user friendly, like buy it, just get it frozen in the oven, the pizza and, and cook it, it's thin, it's going to defrost very quickly in the oven and cook very quickly.
Here we're talking about a massive piece of protein, very, very different.
And it's healthy compared, right?This is deliciousness.This is, this is the thing about Thanksgiving.It's actually quite healthy depending on how you do it.
You can make it very healthy.Yeah.You don't have to do a traditional heavy sugar, salt, fat Thanksgiving.You can do so much ahead. that the day of Thanksgiving, you do, you can do your stuffing ahead.You can prep your vegetables ahead.
You can use a no salt, low salt Turkey stock, you know, and you could have a glass of wine.You're cooking your Turkey.Everything is set up to go into the oven.You have your plates done.
You know, people get crazy and all you have to do is do things ahead and prep.Everything is in the prep and you'll have a flawless, relaxing Turkey day.Trust me on this.
I absolutely agree with you.When you have things done, prepared and like just make a list and don't try to do every side dish in the planet because actually our stomachs don't want that many different things in it at one time.It doesn't.
It doesn't work.Your digestive system just wants a few basic things and the more whole foods and more basic they are, the healthier you're going to be.
And you know, it's just, yeah, I think people over the holiday season, I'm just like, everybody chill out.It's supposed to be fun.Yes, prep ahead of time.
And if you just have a short list of things to do, and you've done them in stages, it's so much easier.And it's about fellowship and food, people coming together, which I think we need to do now more than ever on the planet, have some fun with it.
It's really, really crucial that we don't freak out because anxiety is a real thing.Tell me about it.We don't need anxiety over Thanksgiving, which is supposed to be fun.
You don't want to cook frantically.
Like, you know, Tuesday may be a little anxiety, but, you know, right now, today, and you could be listening after the elections, well, you know, still, you know, no matter what, you can just enjoy Thanksgiving no matter what, no matter what happens.
No matter what happens, getting together with loved ones, no matter what side everyone's on, it's imperative that we break bread and make things work no matter what.It is about that.
And so I think Thanksgiving this year is so important about let's just focus on good food and laughter and what do we have in common, right?So I'm just saying that.
I know we're just only supposed to talk about turkey, but I also think we need to actually have some fun.So, all right, we're going back.The turkey's out. Because I keep derailing us here.
I'm good at this I'm derailing the turkey you're gonna now it's out.It's rested.It's at room temperature and it says Ivan I'm ready for my bacon.You can roast me.And so now the oven has to be preheated.This is the thing.
Now, I brought up the pizza thing about it being frozen and put in the oven.But like, what happens if you actually put your turkey in the oven before it's preheated?It's not going to die.It's still kind of chilling out, isn't it?
Getting to room temperature?Or is that a big no?
Well, what you want to do is you want to make sure you're at 400 degrees. And you're going to start it where for the first half an hour to 45 minutes, you're going to brown that skin.
And then what you're going to do is you're going to tent it and drop it down to 350.That'll give you an even browning throughout the entire bird.Um, so you're working it kind of from the top to the bottom.
Um, if you go in and the oven isn't preheated, your, your heat source is kind of all over the place.You're kind of coming up. And you'll get spots that are more brown, less brown.
You definitely want to go in, uh, when you reach your, you know, the temperature you've got it set for.
Okay.We've got this now.All right.So now it's been in there for around 30 minutes or so, depending on how big the bird is.When you got that nice brown, crispy skin.Now we turn it down to 350.Is it 400, no matter what size the bird?
Okay, that is your thing, okay.And the stuffing, okay, you bring this into your tips, if stuffing the bird, stuff with hot stuffing and loosely stuff, and that would be the time, when do you do that?
You do that right when you turn it down to the 350, you place stuffing then?
I don't put stuffing in a bird, and I'll tell you why.The stuffing for health and sanitation has to reach at least 165 dead center stick. in the center.If you bring stuffing up to 165 degrees, your turkey is going to have to be cooked to 180, 185.
You're going to have a really, really dry breast.If you do want to stuff the bird, you put the stuffing in warm in the beginning.You can put it in in the beginning and it'll balance out.
If you put the stuffing in cold, it's going to take you a really long time to get that stuffing heated.It's much better to do stuffing separately on a bird.It just is.Yeah.
Okay.All right.So I think on the outside is better because it's pretty, um, depending on what you're doing with that.So, um, you say you keep it in there for what?13 minutes a pound for unstuffed and 15 minutes a pound for stuffed.
Yes. Absolutely.You got to go extra for stuff, the next two minutes, but you average about 13 minutes on stuff.
Okay.So you said like a 16 pound Turkey will take about three and a half hours.Why are people doing this all day long?Why is this in three in the morning till, till like because they're frantic because they're frantic.
You don't need to cook a bird that long.Absolutely not. you know, it doesn't have to be that complicated.
I'm just going, I'm reading this.And I'm sitting there going and derailing us everywhere going this is actually something not like that difficult to do.Everybody's freaking out.So okay, so don't freak out.
Okay, so it's like basically three and a half to four to five hours depending on how big your bird is.
But you need to have a thermometer, because you were talking about 185 and 155 and all that.That's your thermometer.What should the bird, so that's something everyone should have.
Don't do this and, you know, because I always just try to cut and see if there's blood or not.Right.I haven't done a big turkey, but I've done that with chicken.I just, I've never done the thermometer thing, because I don't know what I'm doing.
Well, what you want to do is you want to get a thermometer, stick thermometer, And you want to put it between the breast and the thigh as deep as you can go.
And you want to pull that Turkey at one 55, one 57, because what's going to happen is you've heated that Turkey and that Turkey is on bones, the rib cage, the back, it's going to continue to cook.
So when you take that Turkey out, that Turkey is going to climb up to one 65 where a lot of people go wrong is, you know, they'll keep the Turkey.
in the oven to 165, they'll take it out, and then the turkey will climb to 180, 185, and the breast is tough and chewy and dry.
So that target of 155, 157, with those bones being as hot as they are, and you tenting that bird, will comfortably slide you right into where you need to go.
Well, a lot of times.OK, guilty, guilty.And I don't you know, so now I'm wondering about this.We were talking about how it's still cooking because of the bone in the rib cage.
Yes.It's called carry over cooking.Yeah.
Yeah, people will turn their oven off and just go, oh, just leave it in there for that time because it'll just, you know.Yeah, that's why that's why my chicken didn't work.Is that what because I can't talk turkey, but I can talk chicken.
But, you know, I thought I had it and I said, oh, we'll just leave it in there for this little bit of time to let the potatoes do this or that.Yeah, that's what resting is about.
But resting it in the oven is not a good plan because it's still cooking.
Okay, don't do that.You bring it out and you say to rest it for at least an hour and you tent it with foil so it keeps the moisture.We want the moist.This is when we want the moist.
Okay, so you rest it for an hour, but then you say to put it back in the fridge for two hours. Like unless you want to eat it right there and then how do you reheat the turkey once you put it in the fridge?
Like if you're like if you've let it rest for an hour, can you eat after an hour at that point or what happens?What's going on with that?
You want to eat the turkey after you rest it on the counter an hour after it sits.
Okay.Don't put it in by the fridge and then reheat it.Like, okay.
But, but you're saying after two hours being out of the oven, that baby has to go in.Don't let it sit out.
Yeah.Two hour max is your window.After that you have to refrigerate whatever leftover you have.
Okay.And then you talk about turkey stock using the carcass and you could use the giblets for that, right, too?Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.It makes a great stock.And then you can make a great soup.Yeah.Oh, yeah.You can freeze it.I mean, yeah.I mean, don't waste it.
What is your favorite stuffing to go on the side?What do you do?
You know, I, years ago I, I used to, I, I thought I made the best stuffing.It was my father's stuffing.I first met Tracy, she made a stuffing and we had people come over and they judged it and I lost, I lost her stuffing.
I mean, basically when, when people, when you see stuffing made and I used to make it in the restaurants for hundreds and hundreds of the hundreds of people in big tilled kettles, you know, your, your, your croutons, your bread has to be dry.
You're going to be putting in poultry seasoning, onions, carrots.I do a very basic stuffing and the amount of butter that goes into stuffing is frightening.
I mean, you put a lot of butter and then you kind of get the stock and you get it to the consistency that you want.
By the time you cook it, the top of the stuffing in the pan is a little crunchy, but the bottom is not soft, but you know, it's, it's a little moist.
Not dried out, got a good balance of flavor, but there are people that put oysters in it, giblets in it, raisins in it.I'm not that extravagant when it comes to stuffing.I don't make stuffing anymore because I can't control myself.I just can't.
I'll eat it and eat it and eat it.And sometimes, let me tell you something, Thanksgiving meal, that's not where people put on the pounds.It's the leftovers.
When you wake up three o'clock in the morning and you're doing a turkey and stuffing sandwich the size of your head.
That's what I was going to say is friends.I know it's about the stuffing sandwiches.There's stuffing a sandwich with stuffing.It's, it's the stuffing in the sandwich.It is that.
And, and then the, you know, and then here comes the turkey club sandwiches with bacon.Yes. I'm just saying, you've got to put the bacon and the turkey together.Come on.
You know, but it's, it's like a whole thing, but I mean, and then is there a favorite side dish other than the stuffing for you?
You know, I make my own cranberry sauce.I don't use real sugar, but I'll tell you the jelly stuff in the can.I miss, I love that stuff, especially on a turkey sandwich with the stuffing on sourdough toast. With gravy, I mean, there's nothing better.
And that little jiggle, yes.With the juice.Because when you're roasting, when you're roasting the turkey, you want to put some beer, wine stock in there.So the drippings will go into that.
You'll get a certain amount of evaporation, but that gives you a base for an incredible gravy at the end.
This is good.Ooh, yeah.Now, see, my whole thing, for some reason, As soon as I think turkey, I think celery.I don't know what to say about it.Maybe it's just that I like turkey.
Oh, yes, she puts celery in too, thank you.Yes, celery, I forgot.
Celery is everything to me.Well, no, it's just, I don't know if it's just like, to me, turkey salad with, I know people do chicken salad with celery.
But turkey and celery goes well, and you can put a little cranberry in there too, and it'll still be good.Yes, yes.Because if you want salt, Like if you do a soup and you use celery, that's gonna give you salt, you know, for the soup.
And your potassium is very high, which is very healthy for you.Celery is one of the highest things for potassium, yeah.
Celery is key for diabetics, blood pressure, all of it, your blood sugar and all that stuff.If everybody ate two stalks of celery a day, everybody would be much healthier. you know, and you know, it's, Hey, it's peanut butter lovers month.
So I'm just saying, put some peanut butter in the celery.It's good.
Yeah.I do that with the students all the time.A low sugar peanut butter on celery.
If you're an athlete, it's the greatest thing to eat after you work out because the potassium level.
Yeah, it's got electrolytes.It's like natural.It's good stuff, man.Now, would you ever eat a turkey burger, like turkey, or a sandwich with a little bit of peanut butter and pickle on there with turkey?
Why not?It sounds delicious.I would.I know.Why not?
I know, everybody.There's your weird way to end Thanksgiving.Oh, what would be your pairing? for Thanksgiving, like would you have, kind of feel like a Pinot Noir or a rosé or something, what would you do?
You know, I would say to people, drink anything you want and anything you like at Thanksgiving, whether it be rosé, white, red, beer. water, pork, just enjoy and drink what you want.Have fun, yeah.
Yeah, have a good time.Awesome, awesome.Well, thank you so much, Chef Ivan.
Looking forward to next month.Next month, we are gonna finally do our cheese conversation, right?Cheese, we're ready.We're talking cheese, but no chalk.We're just talking cheese.Cheese.And it's gonna be delicious.Oh my gosh, I can't wait for that.
I really can't.I cannot tell you how excited I am to talk about cheese.And at the end of the show, we'll find out who did indeed cut the cheese.All right, everyone, thanks for joining us.
The link for Chef Ivan's list of recommendations about the temperatures and how to buy the right turkey and all of that, that link is up in the episode notes.So stay tuned.Thank you so much, Chef Ivan.
And may you and Tracy and friends and family have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Thanks for joining us here on Big Blend Radio's Eat, Drink and Be Merry show.Keep up with our podcasts at bigblendradio.com and our magazines at bigblendmagazines.com.
