Onwards, onwards, marching in a prayer Onwards, onwards, the sons and daughters share Onwards, onwards, a joyful walk we bear Yokel, yokel, yokel, yokel
Hello, and welcome to Top Hole, the podcast about Eleanor M. Brent Dyer, the Chalet School, and anything vaguely connected.I'm Deborah Lofus, and I'm a fan.The usual provisos apply with respect to pronunciation, spoilers, and bonkersness.
Please see episode zero.It's a windy week, woo, and today we're continuing our conversation about the Chalet girls in camp. We don't hear much about the food that they eat, do we?There's Bianca's sausages that disintegrate.
There's a comment about how food cooked at camp tastes different, so people... Which is true.
It's completely true.Yeah, it gets smoke in it and it's also cooked at a different temperature and by different people, so it turns out differently.So even sausages taste different at camp.
But any food you cook at camp tastes different, for better or worse.
and there are foods you can't cook at camp as well because that always throws the kids yeah because when we start talking about menus and they all go oh pizza and go oh well actually yeah i mean you can make an oven at camp and some sites now do have pizza ovens pizza ovens which is lovely i got my i cooked pizza in a pizza oven badge at the last camp i went to because i cook pizza for everybody in a pizza oven well well done and i set the wood up and did the fire myself
but normally it's not an option on the menu and things like chips and toast everyone's always blown away that you can't have toast on guide camp it's like well you can't really toast bread effectively on a fire that's kind of not how you can do it on the embers yes but that's like last thing at night yeah it's not a breakfast thing and it takes a long time and to do it for 30 people
that's not going to happen it's not going to happen you have you fry stuff at camp fundamentally you fry stuff at camp and we used to always do a cooked breakfast yeah well yeah which i don't think the chalet girls do but i think that's more because well continental continental kind of and it's quite hot
i think well i suppose we had hot camps though and i still gave them hot breakfast yeah but it wouldn't have been like boiling hot all day and all night no that's true it would have been that's true in the morning first thing it wouldn't have been that hot even it was really hot later in the day so yeah okay but i was i was also quite surprised to see what they drank because they drink quite a lot of milk at camp i know they've got a farm that they get the milk from every day or whatever but i mean they do drink quite a lot of milk they're gonna need it more than they're gonna need it twice a day if they're
Milk consumption is one of the most difficult things to predict at camp.Oh my god.
I mean, I had a spreadsheet that calculates, and my daughter's now using that at her guide camps, that calculates how much of everything you need to have at various different points and for all your meals and all the rest of it.
But milk is really, really hard to predict because quite often, unless you've got a big group of girls that all get into drinking tea or coffee,
you're not using much during the day, you need it for cereal in the morning, and then maybe hot chocolate in the evening, depending on what sort of brand of hot chocolate you've brought.So we didn't need too much.
But if you are serving porridge for breakfast, needs milk, milky coffee for elevenses, milky coffee with their lunch, drinking milk anyway at some point later in the day, and then having cocoa in the evening,
so that's that's over that's about a pint and a half per person yeah i would say and that is a lot of milk and they've got to keep that cool and what have they got they've got 30 30 bodies is that including the leaders oh no all right 35 yes so that's
a hundred no no it's 35 pints minimum um up to about 50 so 50 pints a day that's a lot even a churn for 25 pints is going to be unliftable by a child i would say i don't know and they only sent two people to the farm for milk sometimes that was just for topping up maybe yeah but perhaps they dropped perhaps the farm dropped milk off to them that's true for breakfast i mean the issue with milk at hot camp
is keeping it cool now it's it's not impossible to do that at all by any means you put it top tip here for the um should you ever need it um you need a bucket and you put in just a little bit of water at the bottom not too much because otherwise the water gets warmed up yeah a little bit of water at the bottom put your milk in its bottles
it was when we were girls yeah it was still bottles or cartons now or milk pails I suppose but inside and then you put a damp tea towel over that with the edges of the tea towel dipping in the water in the bucket yeah and that wicks up the water and as it evaporates it cools it and that will keep your milk cool and I actually managed to set a jelly
using that method.Wow.At the first camp where I did the catering when I was 17 years old in very hot weather.Wow.I was quite proud of that.Yeah, you should.That's amazing.That was quite good.So it definitely works.Yeah.
But for those quantities of milk, I think they'd need to be picking up milk twice a day.
Well, and also the metal milk churns would be quite cold on arrival because they'd be stored somewhere cold, but they would warm up throughout the day.
And that might not be a problem if they're using so much of it. that it gets used.But it's going to be a problem if it gets too warm because it'll start to go off quicker.
You could, so if you put it in the shade and you'd have to keep moving it around because the shade moves as the sun moves, if you wrapped it in wet cloth and just kept that damp, again the evaporation of the cloth would keep it cool.
Yes, that's true.Could you tie it to a tree near the lake and stick it in the water?
That might work, maybe.You could.Maybe they do that.Maybe.Maybe.It's just a thought.I don't know.Sounds crazy.Interesting one.But that's a mad amount of milk.
Yes, it is a lot of milk.
Yes.And we used to drink tea when we were girls.Yes.It was always tea.And at breakfast,
huge teapot and everybody would put their cup behind them for tea and QM would come around with the teapot putting tea in every cup and then the milk and the sugar would pass around the horseshoe and the first year that I was QM in charge of the catering I did that and then by the time the milk and the sugar got to me I mean I was thirsty I'd been working over a fire for an hour and a half
So I just was gulping down black unsweetened tea and I've never taken sugar in my tea since.And it stems from guide camp.Wow.So, yeah, so we always used to try and get a hot drink inside them first thing.Yeah.And we'd offer hot squash.
And then there was one camp where everybody started drinking Bovril.Oh, yeah.I remember that.That becoming a thing.Or a crushed stock cube.Yeah.In hot water.Lift lemon tea was a trend at one camp.Yeah.Everybody was drinking that. for their hot drink.
Didn't often drink coffee or offer coffee.No.But we wouldn't, whereas they were having proper coffee in Austria.Yeah, that would be different.Yeah.And they're used to it and it's easily available.Yes.They probably couldn't get teabags.
Well, they wouldn't have had teabags in those days, it would have been loose tea, wouldn't it?Yeah, loose tea in the strainer or whatever.And then the cocoa, theirs would have been proper cocoa, from mixing cocoa and sugar.
Now I don't think we've ever left anything like Coco behind not bringing it with us to camp.No, I don't think we have.But we have got a bit of previous in terms of leaving things behind at campsites that we've had to go back and get.
We took something away from one camp.
We took a chair away once that we had to drop back.Did we ever drop it back?I think we did.Yes, I think we did.I'm not sure we did.
no we did eventually yes you're right yes we took that back well what did we leave behind well we left all the girls straighteners the year that we confiscated oh the hair straighteners yeah hair straighteners at camp i mean please yeah this is not proper camping no it's not anyway um yeah we've definitely got previous for that but it was a lovely day out it was a lovely day
Yeah, and then also the way, because I was thinking, sorry I'm skipping off a bit, but the way they got to camp and they obviously brought all the food with them.Yes.
Because they talk about leaving some of it behind and having dry and not dry food transportation.And then they had all the Paliases stuffed with things. And the coaches are waiting for them on the Tay and Say?
Yes, I think what came with them in the coaches was just the Palliases, the stuff of Palliases, with their kit in, and the body, the people, and their knapsacks.
And I think the other stuff came on lorries, because they talk about the tents and stuff being delivered by lorry, and so their food might well have come on that as well.
Okay, that makes more sense.
although how are they going to get a lorry up there when jem's car struggles i'm not entirely sure so i'm guessing interesting isn't it if there's a bit of a conflict there between what's possible and exactly no do you remember at camp we used to have those trundle trolley things yeah we they had they were
that's all i can describe them as they were like a big box on wheels fundamentally and we would load stuff into that and then drag it actually to the campsite do you mean the ones with the wheels in the middle that tippy the way yeah yeah it's like a massive board with just a little rail around it yeah you chuck a load of stuff in it like backpacks
you would pile very carefully on top of it chuck a load of stuff on it and the smallest guide could go free and then you'd lift one side up and have someone stopping the other side from falling yeah so you could trundle them along yes and then when you wanted to stop you drop one end down and the legs at the bottom yeah half yeah if the trundle it would stop at an angle and you could unload yeah and we did used to do that yeah so i think they must have had a similar arrangement to get their gear
from the lorry and from the Charabon to the actual site.But I don't think the girls did a great deal of the lugging around, or the leaders.And that was always the most tiring thing for us.
I mean, we would come back from guide camp utterly exhausted, the most exhausted.It's like moving house.The tiredness you feel when you've moved house is the tiredness we felt at the end of a guide camp.
And actually, even once we were sitting in the coach, to come home wasn't the end of it for us, because we'd have to sort it all out, all the equipment out, and get it packed away in the shed at the other end.
And if it was a wet strike, we'd have to arrange to have all the tents go somewhere to be dried and stuff.
Yes, we had to spread them out in the village hall to get them dry.And I had them in my back garden drying, and we'd have them hanging up in bathrooms.I remember the lat tents being hanging up in a bathroom to dry after one camp.
And everything we took had to be cleaned and dried and returned.Spotlessly clean and bone dry.And we would say spotlessly clean and bone dry and the girls would have to clean and dry it before it got packed away to go home.
But often, especially with a wet strike, you couldn't get it dry.You couldn't do that.So it would all have to be taken somewhere to be dried before it went back.And the girls
don't particularly they don't talk about striking in the way I mean that would be a massive part of camp for us wasn't it we planned it meticulously in the end so that we were clear on who was responsible for what how we were going to organize it what could we get struck and put away early and I would usually
usually do the last cooked meal would be the breakfast on the day before the final day and then we'd have the usual buffet lunch and get them all to make up their packed lunch for the following day while they did that because we had a fridge on site so we could keep all that cool for the final day.
and then in the evening we'd have the fish and chips.So from that point I was shutting down the kitchen.
Yeah, the fire would get basically taken down and we would have a campfire maybe.
Oh, I usually did croissants or pain au chocolat for that final breakfast as well, so they had something decent inside them, but it was no cooking as such.
So yeah, whereas it doesn't... They just seem to stop and then it's all done, which makes me think that EBD probably went as a guide rather than a leader. because you'd make more of the kind of requirements.
Well, unless she went as a leader and visited a camp as a leader and perhaps was there for a few days in the middle and didn't see the beginning and the end.
Because, I mean, she knows about pitching tents because she describes that and the tents that they have.So most of the girls are in bell tents.Now, bell tents were old fashioned by the time we were camping.There was one, we had a ridge tent that had
an end that was bell shaped okay which i'm not going to use the other way of describing that because we might get the yeah we might get the entire podcast suspended for calling it that um but but we didn't use bell tents no at all so a bell tent has one central pole that actually you kind of dig a little hole for it in the ground yeah i understand yeah and then everybody and then you put the canvas over the pole and then
group people around the canvas and everybody walks out pulling the canvas with them until the tent is the right size and at that point you start pegging out the guys and pulling it out so it's quite stable because it's got equal tension from the guy ropes all the way around and one of the things EBD refers to is the tent flaps being open and they can see the stars
right well they're listening to the singing which is well no because that was a thing in camping about sleeping with the door open or the tent open so that you've got had enough ventilation right now when we camped even the big green tents yeah usually had a ventilation hoop in them in the roof didn't they yeah and because we had to remember to knock it open with a mallet before you lifted it and it was out of reach yeah um and we never slept with
the doors open on the turn which we just wouldn't have done would we?Lacing them up was an important responsibility for the patrol leader.
It was yes and if you went out for the toilet in the middle of the night then you would be told you're lacing it up.
Yes exactly and just lace up the first two with a torch in your mouth trying to lace it up and when you were the youngest guide who'd only done it once
yes it's quite complicated yeah sometimes they'd laugh at you in the morning how you'd done it because one girl did it from the outside in in a yes in a twisty kind of way and it looked hilarious it was yeah yeah so yeah yeah so there's not a lot about
By the time we were camping as leaders we used modern tents.We did camp with big green tents several times and then there was a reason why we changed to the other ones because they were a lot easier.
to maintain and manage and they gave the girls more space and also they were lighter to carry and they also gave the girls they were less likely to get damp bedding yes because there was that one camp where we had to re-site the tent three times the first time it was on an ant's nest the second time it was on a puddle which had formed when it rained but it was dry when we moved it and then I think and so we moved it to a third site and we were like we don't want to do green tents anymore
No.We did occasionally take one as a first aid tenant or as a spare.
the store tent because I quite like the green tent for a store tent although the tunnel tent when we used it that was good for storage.
Well the tunnel tent was brilliant because I could put it up on my own yeah and it was huge and you could stand up in every part of it pretty much so I would say that those I mean modern tents are great but the bell tents there's something very um romantic about them I think it's a very you know seeing lots of bell tents all put up together and there's that bit where they walk away and they see the busy campsite
And from, you know, I remember walking away to go and collect wood and looking back and seeing the smoke curling and people are busy doing their chores and going off to get water or whatever and then whoever's not got duties at that time, fatigues, as they call it in the book, which I didn't understand.
No chores, we used to call them, didn't we?
Some people who didn't have chores playing, you know, playing catch or, you know, doing something in the corner and going off to go and collect wood or whatever and looking back and seeing that busy camp, it's such a lovely memory of camp for me and that immediately chimed with me.
when I read it because I thought yes that's exactly now as an adult having camped as a guide and as a leader and as a young leader I think I look back on that I think yes that's one of my happiest memories ever is looking back on that busy camp and just thinking I'm part of something that's amazing that's completely unique every camp is totally different even if you take all the same people to the same site a year later it will be a different camp
And it's a unique experience, it's a pop-up experience that doesn't happen again.And you take that with you, and everyone takes something from that camp with them in the rest of their life.
Like you not taking sugar in tea, or my concern about wind, or the thunderstorm, or whatever.
things cooked on a fire, you know, and the taste of things on a fire being completely different and loving that and trying to... I have barbecue sauce with a lot of things and I think it's a... it's a harking back to missing my camping days in many ways.
You see, I really like Lapsang Souchong tea.Oh, smoky tea, yeah, yeah, yeah.Yes, because it just reminds me of camp so much.I think Joey and Co certainly take that, have that experience of taking that away with them, don't they?
The way they talk about it afterwards.Yeah. it becomes a very special place to them.And that chimes with my experience.I've got lots and lots of little happy memories of camp tucked away.
Yes, me too.And even some of the things that went wrong at the time are now fantastic stories about camp. And also the other thing was the getting up and creeping out in the morning before anyone else was up.
Because I often would get up and start the fire and then once someone else came out to start using it, like aka you, I would then go back to bed for a bit and get up again later to have breakfast and stuff.
Because if I got up at half five to start the fire or six to start the fire so it was ready to cook on for seven to have breakfast for eight,
then I could go back to bed at quarter to seven because you'd be up and I'd bring first cup of tea and then I'd be off duty for a bit.
So I remember creeping out of my tent and going and starting the fire when no one else was awake and there's something really magical about that as well, is that you're sharing the space with all these people but for five minutes it's yours.
so and then the reverse being true that when I didn't start the fire then you would bring me the first cup of tea in the morning and I'd roll over and have a cup of tea looking out of the tent lying down and again that's really special yeah you know and I think all of them got that chance to have that special time at camp um so I think that's universal for all guide camps I think pretty much um I hope it is anyway.
So it's Griselle and Juliet and Joey that are creeping out of the tent early in the morning yeah on their fishing expedition and that's It's quite a funny incident, really, that one, isn't it?Yeah, it is.
That is good, the whole artist model body thing.
And I think it also, it's quite funny because there were quite a lot of sort of, what are they called, shilling shockers or whatever?You know, shocking stories about finding bodies or whatever and murder mysteries and stuff.
It was quite a thing then, quite a theme at that time.And so putting something in there that's just a parody of that is actually a really funny thing to do.
It's really clever.It's one of the more memorable chalet school incidents, I think.And the other two major, there's the whole laundry thing.
yeah the peak the middles that fall in the pond yeah i mean how did they manage that but that is so typical of teenagers isn't it do you remember we were at Sutton-on-Sea and we'd said and there's a paddling pool fountainy thing at Sutton-on-Sea there was when we were there yeah and we said to the girls don't go in that it's cold today you're not dressed for it leave it alone and no while our backs were turned
three 13 year olds went in it got themselves soaked from head to foot and I remember being quite annoyed at the time yeah and we said we were gonna have to take you back to the site so you can get changed and they were going because we had a beach hut we could use but they didn't have clothes there
And I remember this girl saying to me, we can go back to the site on our own, we're 13 years old, you can trust us.And I was like, yeah, do you know what, love?No.We couldn't trust you to do what we said for five minutes while our backs were turned.
We're not sending you down the coast.
So yes, so I don't think it matters how the middles end up in the pond, because yeah, do you know what?That's believable.
Yeah, it is.It's really, really believable, definitely.Absolutely. But sometimes, I mean, they can be so well-behaved.Yes.I mean, the thunderstorm, when everyone happens to talk about, you've got to march back wherever.
And you're all going across the fields.
Yes, that's the most dangerous thing I've ever done, ever.
Yeah. But we didn't have a choice.We had to get 25 people back to site as quickly as possible.And I walked along the seafront with Toby in his pushchair.
And most of the girls.I only had a handful with me.I think we were going to get stuff opened up and ready.And we took all the girls into the heated toilet block. Yeah, with the heating on.
And there was one leader in there with them, and then Angela, I think, was in the main hut.Receiving.Receiving.So she would signal, send two more over, and we were like, go, go!
And they'd run over to the hut, where Angela would get rid of all their wet clothes and give them their dry clothes and a hot drink as they sit in that corner right next to.And one of the girls said, it's like being in the army, isn't it?
You get the signal and we have to go. Yes.
It was brilliant.It was all hands on deck.And everyone did just behave and do as they were told.
And I think, you know the other incident with the hornets?Yes.I assume it's hornets.Yes, it was hornets, yeah.And with that, everyone did as they were told, because obviously they were frightened of being stung or whatever.
But that is very true of camp as well, that you would just make a split decision, this is the safest thing to do, do that, and just get everyone to do whatever was needed. And I didn't envy them lacing up the tent in a pressure situation.
That gave me shivers, actually, because it's so true.If that had happened... I know we've had a couple of waspy camps, which is why we chose our weeks carefully.
Yes, we did.If you go in the first week of the summer holidays, not as many wasps.Later, wasps.Quite a waspy camp.
And because wasps are attracted by food, particularly squash,
yeah yeah and um and food remains yeah then uh unless you have an incinerator and you use it regularly you're not gonna they're just their waste food would go on to the pigs at the farm i was used to quite often at campsites that the we'd take the big bucket over yeah to the farm that'd be one of the chores so
Yeah wasps, lovely.But the only time I remember people being stung at our camps, I remember Sue getting stung when she was making the first cup of tea of the day and a wasp was resting on the handle of the kettle.
So she didn't know it was there.And then there was the girl that got stung by a bee at like 10 o'clock at night.
They were getting in their pyjamas and this bee had gone to sleep in her very soft cuddly pyjamas and she'd gone put her arm in and got stung.This was the camp where I'd lost my voice and I was first aider so I was like, come with me.
And then I had my translator who was talking to them.So a friend and the girl who'd been stung were taken to the first aid tent and I put all the lights on and stuff.And I just did what I instinctively thought was the best thing to do.
So I got a pair of tweezers and a bowl and I went as close to the skin as I could to take it out so it didn't hurt her, was my principle for it.Pulled the sting out, chucked it in the bowl, said that's done now, you'll be alright.
and then put some spray stuff on it, some sting spray or whatever, and then was like, sit here for a bit until you feel well enough to put your jams on, I'll leave you with your mate and we'll go make you a hot drink.
I just made her a cocoa or whatever.And then me and my translator went off to go and do that and ask for that to be made or whatever.And then about half an hour later, there was a shrieking coming, don't remove the sting, don't remove the sting.
I was like, well I already
she already has well okay so um and and then i discovered that the the sting had a poison sack on it that if you squeeze it it puts all the poison in the body which makes you more likely to react and be unwell and stuff which i didn't know about which is good because i removed it very quickly without any hesitation yes and then we looked at the bowl and there was this giant
poisoned sack, still fully inflated and I'd done it just right and I was like, well that was... Luckily I'd done it right.But yeah, she was very upset but the next day she was fine.
But while you were dealing with her, we then had a wasp in another tent.Ten o'clock at night, listeners.So I was standing there with a glass or a cup over the wasp, calling out, Wendy!Wendy!And you were writing on your piece of paper,
And that was the camp, I think, where I went to the toilet in the middle of the night, and the whole of the toilet tent was full of wasps.Asleep wasps.Up in the corners.And I'd just gone in, sat down, started to wee, and then looked up and went...
i don't like this very much hurry up we hurry up we finished and then like literally ran out and just left the door open yes and hope they'd all go away yeah next morning somebody went and had a wee and as they were coming out i was like is everything okay and they're like yeah it's fine door was open bit odd and i was like wow and they'd literally all gone yeah as soon as the sun had risen they just left so and i looked in it and there was no wasps there and no sign they'd ever been there and i promise i didn't dream it so yeah so um no mention of
toilet tents really they talk about utility tents or something like you know there's a sort of passing reference something that might probably does cover toilet tents and wash tents but we had both I mean nowadays it's common at most guide campsites that there's a wash toilet block and wash basins there so you don't need to think about that as much but we always used to have
and they were like little TARDISes, but they were not bigger on the inside than they are on the outside, they were smaller on the inside, and they would have a portable toilet in that had to be emptied... Latrine?
Latrines, yeah, it had to be emptied into the... Either a lap pit had been dug for us, or a sewer, sometimes you lift a drain cover and tip down into a sewer.
and then wash tents would have a tripod with a bowl on it for washing your hands after you'd used the toilet that would be outside the toilet tent and then you'd have separate wash tents that would again have a tripod with a bowl in and that was for doing your strip wash
in morning and that would usually be um the same size as a lat10 yes or occasionally you'd get a double one yeah oh yeah it's a luxury to have that much room to be able to actually undress yeah yeah um and then there was also we sometimes had tents that were just used for that
that were like a normalish looking tent with three or four tables with bars or whatever or you'd make gadgets for it or whatever for like washing your hands and having a wash or whatever.
And two or three people could use them at once which is quite handy at night time.
Yeah there's no real mention of it, I mean they'd have had trench latrines I think.I would have thought so yeah.I can't imagine they'd have done it any other way and that would have been normal.
yeah um and i have read descriptions of them we just don't dig a trench put the unit over and put planks over it as well.And then you fill the trench in before you go?
Yes, you put fresh earth over it when you've done your business and then that stops it getting too smelly.
And then at the end of the week you put all the soil back in again and then you walk away and it looks like nothing's been there and as long as no one digs in it for six months you'll probably be okay.
So that's probably the arrangement they had and they'd have had to have had their latrine all well away so that it wasn't a leech into the lake. wouldn't they?
Maybe I'm overthinking it but I mean did they have toilet roll then? Squares and Newspaper wasn't it really in those days?Okay, so they'd have had that then I assume.
Whatever arrangements they had at school they would have had at camp I guess for that.
I just thought they probably wouldn't have had like soft luxurious quilted toilet paper.No, they would not have had quilted toilet paper because you remember the tracing paper?
Yes, but it's not tracing, it's got a special name, I can't remember what it is.That toilet paper, paper toilet paper,
that we had certainly a primary school i remember having that yeah in school um and in the public toilets of certain i'd say that's the toilet paper they had there as well i remember it and i remember it from the public toilets in town yes and there was somewhere else but yeah so their toileting arrangements weren't really referred to no but i mean that's typical of
yeah all the books of that you know we don't know what the toilet arrangement were at the chalet school doing so we're not going to get a description of that no um and that's pretty standard for that area yeah not to talk about those kinds of unmentionables um
What about the activities they do?They climb a hill, don't they?They pick blueberries.
They do laundry.Yeah.Both supervised and unsupervised.They visit the farm.Yeah.There are chores to do.I mean, you actually don't get an awful lot of free time to do stuff at camp.And the first two days are just really setting everything up.
You get a little bit of time in the morning, don't you, to do stuff. And then a bit, probably a couple of hours in the afternoon, after rest hour, we'd have a couple of hours.
Rest hour, I mean that's lovely that they do that and that it's in Forster's quiet time.They don't really talk during that and again they have that school, especially in the summer and stuff.
But yeah, that rest time's really important at camp because it is overwhelming.And having that time just to let the body recover after lunch is really important.Reading, writing letters, sewing or whatever if you choose, or just sleeping.
And I love that description where they're really tired and they all doze off, even the leaders doze off during rest hour.
It's like, yeah, that's important.It's really important.We had to, we really struggled to get guides
when we were guides we were quite good at rest hour yeah i think because possibly the tuck shop would open generally at the start of rest hours yeah spend some of your pocket money on some chews or whatever sweets and things and then you would spend rest out eating your sweets which was quite good when we took guides away ourselves as leaders we had to rebrand it didn't we we did because the girls didn't understand the concept of rest hour isn't that
And I think it's really interesting that if you said rest hour to kids today, I don't think they'd get it.You would have to explain, justify it to them and stuff.But we rebranded it as mobile phone hour, didn't we?
Yes, because we used to collect in all the mobile phones as they checked in at camp, part of the check-in process was handing over their phone, which probably you couldn't do now actually.
i don't think the world's changed since we lost camp but anyway french collect them in at the entrance to school oh do they yeah they all have a little lock box they put them in whatever we didn't have a lock box we had a biscuit tin that we kept really careful close guard on um and at some point i made i think it was when i ran that weekend camp i made them all put them in plastic bags yes plastic bags and wrote their name and the number of the phone on it so that we could at least reunite with owner at some point if needed
and they were only allowed to have their phones during mobile phone hours.There are sound reasons for that and we did explain to them you cannot have your phone with you all the time when you're at camp.
It's a dangerous place, you need to be looking where you're going, not looking at a screen.Let them have their phones if we went out and they wanted to take photos and things because that's the other thing.
Phones are now cameras as well as communication devices and how people read books and amuse themselves quietly and things, which wasn't the case before.I mean a camera was a very special thing.Do they have, I can't remember, anybody taking pictures?
No, I don't remember that either.
But I remember taking my first ever camera with me to my first ever guide camp and I have a photo of me lying down on the grass and it's a selfie that I took and my arms stretched as far as I could and I had no idea what it was going to look like.
And it's most of my face and one of my earrings, you can see here.And I can still remember taking that and just thinking, I really hope this comes out, because I'm so happy.I just want a picture of it.
Well, we've got that fab picture of the two of us that somebody took.Yes.That was a camp where I was young leader and you were a guide.Yeah.And the two of us are scrubbing a big Dixie together.Yeah.And it's just... Emu must have taken that.Yeah.
Or Mrs. Langley or somebody.Yeah. And that's a really lovely picture.
It so just encapsulates being at camp, that being in the woods, you know, there's trees around us and it's in a field and there's shade and dappled light and then being there sort of in our semi-uniform that we would have as our camp clothes and just working away together and we're both obviously quite happy and it's just a lovely little scene, it's lovely.
yeah clothes so they wear overalls yeah they wear full uniform and overalls i think by overalls they mean camp dress right okay yes yeah don't think because it wouldn't be trousers they weren't wearing trousers yeah and a camp dress i mean that camp dresses were still in use when i was a guide yeah um even though the uniform had changed significantly by then and was about to change again because you have the new uniform
You had the tuck-in shirt, didn't you?
Yes, I had the air hostess hat and the tuck-in shirt.
And then a few years later it went all sweatshirts and stuff.But for camp, I didn't acquire a camp dress until I was a leader and then I just loved it and I would live in it.
yeah at camp on a is it warm brilliant i'll do that because you just you put on your underwear put on a dress yeah it's really really good so it's very practical it doesn't sound it a dress and in fact it is it is very highly practical yes and and i can see the older
Shirts with the pockets.Mm-hmm.I think if that was longer, that would be a really useful the overall type outfit Yeah, and that with the pockets You can pretty much carry everything you need.
Yeah.Yeah, I had the belt which had the little pocket.I
yes the purse thing attached to it yeah and that was good i mean i still used it for guide cam because it had i could put matches kindling string pen knife yeah you know all your useful stuff that you needed pen whatever um and you could pretty much cover 90 of things with what was in your pocket so that was really helpful and i was really gutted when my guide belt became i became too big for my guide belt because it was really handy
It was one of the newer plastic-y ones, so they weren't brilliant, but they were still pretty good.And I had my compass clipped onto one of the rings, and a spare pen knife, and I had a pen knife in the bag as well.
We two were being prepared very seriously, didn't we?Very seriously, yes.
And the only thing I didn't really have at that time, which you then gave me later, was the whistle.Oh, right, yes. which I loved.They do use a whistle at camp, don't they?
They do, but they also use something like a bugle, because she's trying to do cook house and it's not working.
And that's interesting, come to the cook house, we used to use that to some of the girls to camp, to cook meals.
It's lovely to see those traditions have carried on.And some of the songs they sing I hadn't heard of, but I think there's one or two that I had, OK.And I think they're probably singing Grace or whatever.Yeah.
There probably is some crossover there where they've sung Grace's... I wonder if they sang Johnny Appleseed as well.
Yeah, Johnny Appleseed or so.God Has Created a New Day.Yeah.Yeah, they were fabulous. They probably didn't do Rub-a-dub-dub, thanks for the grub.Probably didn't do that one.
They might have been spoken graces, but I don't think Rub-a-dub-dub would have been one of them.
But I mean, they were used to singing folk songs and things from school anyway, so they carried that into their campfires.
yeah but they must have known some of the traditional yeah guiding songs even though they're not referenced and they start with campfires burning right which is obviously a classic kind of way to start a campfire and we always use that early on yeah so um yeah that would always be sung i think at every guide camp we would sing that at least once yeah and i wouldn't
I suppose it's easier to have a campfire every night if you've got a wood right next to you that no one else is using.Yes.But we could only probably get enough sticks for two campfires a week.Especially if we were cooking on wood as well.
Because the site wouldn't have enough dry wood for you to use for that.And I love the description of, is it Cornelia bringing back the fir tree?Oh yes.It's green wood, it's going to spit, It's not really going to be any good.
Even if you dry it out, it's not going to be dry in time.So you couldn't use it for cooking on because you'd ruin all your equipment.
You could use it for campfire, but only if you're sitting quite far away, which then you're not going to be warmed by the campfire.So it's pretty useless really.
I don't get the impression it was that cold at night at the camp.I think it was more for the show of it.And it is really special, the campfire light and singing round a campfire is really, really special.
And I think EBD captures that really well as well.
She does, she captures it beautifully and it reminded me of all the many campfires that I've had at guide camp.
and where I renewed my promise as a leader at the campfire at Trusthorpe with you and the family all there because Penny Rose were guides then.
I think Penny might have been a young leader by then but yeah it was lovely to have the family there and do it with them and it was just as I'd expected so it was a lovely, it was nice to be reminded of that and all the fantastic campfires we'd had over all the years.
I think if I was going to pick a chalet school book to be in it would be this one.
yeah yeah because i think i'd struggle with the schooliness of the other ones whereas this one guide camp i do guide camp yeah you know yeah i i really loved it and this sounds like a really good camp the weather's nice yeah you know yeah they help the hornets i'd be a guide or a leader at this camp yes i'd be quite happy with either yeah it's a good leadership team yeah i'd be happy to be a young leader at it too yeah i think whatever activities um
And I'm glad that Elizaveta gets to enjoy it as well, because it must be really boring being a crown princess or whatever.
Yes, it's nice that she gets to come back and do that.
Yeah, because they wouldn't really have necessarily got her to come back otherwise. otherwise because she couldn't come back to the school, it would be too... the media or whatever and the attention would be too much.
So getting to hide up on the top of a mountain with them and do camping I think is probably the nicest thing that she could have had as a mini return to the Chalet school.So yeah, I think you're right.
I think if I had to pick a book to go back into it would probably be this one because it's the sort of... incidents that happen aren't terrible.No one's really injured that badly, even Joey falling down her pit.
Oh yes, I'd forgotten about Joey in the bit.And then the prank that follows on from that.See that just shows that Juliet and Griselle aren't that far from their own school days, doesn't it?Yes, it really does.
Which turns out to be not a prank.
Well yes, but they weren't to know that.
That's fab though, isn't it? So yeah, they were definitely young leaders at that point.
They weren't full leaders.
They're not teachers yet.But for them, I guess it's like a last blast, isn't it?Last chance to be a bit girlish before they have to finally grow up.So yeah, it's nice.
It's a lovely book and it's brought back lots of happy memories for me to reread it and to talk about it.
No, it's good.Thank you very much.Oh, thank you.Bye.
Wendy and I would like to express our thanks to our own guide leaders, Emu and Mrs Langley, and all the guides and women and family members who've camped with us over the years for creating so many special memories.
You have been listening to Top Hole, written and presented by Deborah Lofus with Wendy Norford, music and production by Kit Lofus.You can find Top Hole on Facebook or email us at topholepodcast at gmail.com.Top Hole is a Lofus Towers production.
