Three things that I believe are our responsibility with every employee.It's our responsibility to give them the tools that they need to be successful.Hardware, software, systems, processes, the right environment.
Then we need to train them how to use all of those tools.Whatever the tools might be and then we need to give them time with which to use those tools successfully.We've done those three things and they're still not where they need to be.
I dare say it's a reflection of them and maybe their suitability to the role.
Welcome to Building Doors.In this series, you'll develop the skills to build a roadmap for success, get inspired by those leaders who have come before you, and give you the confidence to stop waiting and start building.
Today on the podcast, we've got Richard Austin with us, and I've got him on because he's had a fascinating career prior to his role for Omni in Construction.
He's worked across hospitality, travel, insurance, media, and been able to transfer those skills in leadership and business acumen across those different industries.
Today, we're going to talk a little bit more around his leadership style and how he's adapted that to different industries.
We're going to talk about transferable skills and how you can look at what you can offer in different roles and demonstrate that when you're applying and moving into other positions.
And we're going to talk more and get deep into leadership skills and capability and how you can grow the very best team that can show up every day and utilize their strengths.
And as a special little exit to the episode at the end, we are going to delve into Richard's very personal IVF journey.So hook in and let's get started. Thank you so much, Richard, for coming on the podcast.
I was very excited to get you on because we've spoken about this before.There's so much that you've covered in your career across different industries.And I think a common question people often have is, how do I change industries?
How do I use the skills that I've built in my career in one sector and perhaps apply them to a different sector? So I want to start first by learning a bit more around you and where this all came from and working across those different industries.
What have been the values, if you think back right from hospitality through to construction now, what have been the values that have underpinned the work that you've done?
Yeah, certainly something that I've been fortunate that I've been able to demonstrate when I've wanted to move from one industry to a next is that I've got a skill set which is industry agnostic.
And if you think about what is common amongst every single organization, it's people, process, systems, and you make commercially and financially sensible decisions.
And so then if you can gain visibility and understanding over the mechanics of a particular organisation.So I think about it sometimes also, it's like I've got a bunch of ingredients and then I've got a recipe.
If you can gain visibility over the recipe and the steps and the method that you need to apply and include all those different ingredients, it helps you to achieve a particular outcome.And so when I've moved around as well,
Intentionally, I've also been agnostic by way of industry, but what I've been really clear in my mind about, what's the type of organisation that I want to be aligned to?
And so when I moved many moons ago from insurance, what ultimately then became shared services and then a law firm, I wanted to be aligned to a brand that kind of passes that barbecue test.
You're at a barbecue, you're having a chat, and you're proud of saying, hey, yeah, I work for this particular organization.That's been really important.
Another thing which is always really important as well is you need to be motivated to get up and out of bed, go to work, and rock up to an environment every day which kind of fills your bucket and makes you happy.
Tell me about when you're making these decisions around what roles you take on, what you do, what are the values that underpin that for you?
If I think about values, it needs to be something that you're proud to be aligned to.It needs to be something that is meaningful to me.I don't just want to rock up and work in a particular company or industry if it doesn't have meaning.
And if I think about the opportunity I've been given now to work with Omni, Yes, we're a consulting organization, and yes, we always aim to be commercially viable and profitable.
But the underlying current of what we do, if we do it and all the other parties line up, we save lives.
And that's really gratifying, being aligned to Omni now and, I suppose, having my first step into the construction and building industry, that it's really important work.
And it's something that, I suppose, enables me to be proud of the role that I fulfill within the business as well.
When you're going in, how do you know when you're joining a company or when you're assessing joining, whether there's a values alignment?
What are the ways, because you've got that coaching consulting knowledge too, what are the ways that you assess that with where you might be going into in a role?
It's interesting you ask that.I ask that of people that we're interviewing all the time and I challenge them and I say, whilst we're assessing you, you need to assess us.
You need to be really clear that this is the type of organisation that you want to be aligned to because our culture and our structure is pretty bedded down and we're not going to dramatically evolve for one new person coming into the business.
So you need to be really clear when you're coming in here, is this the type of organization that I want to be aligned to?And that's where you then ask really specific questions on the way through.
You need to have a real clear vision on what's important to me.If I'm rocking up and I'm coming and investing 40 hours plus of my awake life to this organization, what are the things that I in turn need to get out of it?
And it'll be different for everybody.But for me, it's the barbecue question, being aligned to a company that you're proud to talk about on a Saturday afternoon when you're catching up with some friends. It needs to be the right environment.
So for me, I don't want to rock up to a shabby old work environment, which is dirty and grubby and doesn't kind of fill me with joy or motivation that I want to be the best version of myself there.
And then you need to try and as best possible glean, these are the sort of people that I want to work alongside of every day.And another thing that I say to my management team when they're interviewing somebody,
They're at the table having an interview because they've generally got all the skills which are required for them to be successful.
You need to be really clear, although we work in a hybrid work environment, is this someone I want to sit next to for 40 hours a week?
And if you're not clear in your mind that, yes, whilst you've got this one hour or two hours in order to draw that type of conclusion, but as best you can, you need to walk away from that interaction going, yeah,
I reckon this is somebody that I would actually enjoy working alongside and sitting alongside and we're going to be aligned with some of the beliefs and the values that we have.
Such a good answer because it's so easy to get swayed by a really impressive resume.Do you know what I mean?
And where some people will overlook a person and go, okay, they're so good on paper, but there's some behaviours there that may not work or there's some things we can work out or tweak out.
And I agree with you that it's about that first initial meeting.You need to establish if that person, if you can work with that person.It's something people don't often really think about, especially sometimes in the engineering and technical space.
They can get really centered on the quals and the experience.And don't get me wrong, we need that.But then it's good that you've got that balanced perspective.
That leads into my next question, because I can tell that by the way you interview, you've almost got, and we spoke about this before, a recipe or a way that you go into these organisations and can help them have the right culture, the right people, the right financials.
Let's talk about the Richard recipe, trademarked, right?What's the recipe that you've found across all these different industries that is what you sort of follow when you're going into these companies?
There's two different methodologies that I default back to all the time.And one is that I learned, 2009 is when I had my first exposure to both of them at the same time, and one is around situational leadership.
So it's understanding the learning journey that people navigate through when they're new to a particular skill or a particular task, and understanding the different emotions associated with them being brand new to it, and I'm excited.
a little bit further down that pathway.I thought it was going to be easy.Now it's far more difficult than I thought.And over time, they start becoming unconsciously competent to a point where they're consciously competent.
And so that particular methodology talks about giving people the right level of support reflective of their learning journey, reflective of their capability and development level.
And then the other part that, so previously I became a facilitator or a certifier, whatever they're called, in social assault and versatility training.And that is similar to like DISC and MyBriggs and the bird profiling.
So respectfully, there's lots of different personality profiling systems out there. I argue they're similar.
What I really like about social style and versatility training is when you fill out and complete this particular survey, with that one you actually get a group of people, four to six people who are close to you to answer the same questions.
So whilst we might have this perception going, I'm this particular personality type and this is how I communicate. other people can observe something sometimes dramatically different.
And so we can all choose to be versatile with how we communicate with people, but some people can be guilty of defaulting to their preferred style because that's just where I sit within my lane, I sit within my comfort style, my place of comfort.
And so what I really like about these two methodologies is it doesn't matter about the industry, there's a learning journey that we all navigate through.
And then if you can gain visibility on what level of support people need to help them become proficient or the best version of themselves in a relation to a particular task, that's great.
And then the other part is communicating with people in a way that they'll best receive that information.So if you're analytical and I'm expressive, couple of the personality profiles, I need to be really mindful about giving you information
giving you space to make informed decisions, giving you facts, giving you data, and not try and make you build the plane while I'm flying it.Because that's going to put you into a place of sometimes a lot of discomfort.
OK.Have you done the process yourself as well with four people?Have you been through that process?And what was your learning from it?And what did you open your eyes to in your own leadership journey?
Many, many moons ago when I very first did it, I had a particular person that was in my team and this was just prior to doing the course and by nature I'm expressive, you get tone inflection, you get hand movements and you're okay being really fluid with your approach and I can live with that, I can fly the plane whilst we build it.
But I had a particular person who's amiable and they need security within a relationship, they need to know that there's trust and that they can feel safe. And this person wasn't operating at a level that they needed to.
So I was having a conversation within a one-on-one reflective of what my default style is.And then very quickly, it got a bit derailed.I was being very specific and to the point, focused on what's expected of them within their role.
But then all of a sudden, they became really emotional and they were really upset.And so I was like, all right, time out.Let's just pause for the moment.And then I went and did this course.And I was like, oh, OK.
I was communicating with them in a way that I felt comfortable, not communicating with them in a way that made them feel comfortable.And so literally a few weeks after doing one-on-ones with my people, I then just repositioned.
So the same issues were still there, but then I started communicating with this person in a way that gave them comfort and confidence and security within that conversation.And the response was so significantly different.
I was like, oh my goodness, okay. And then they got on track and they started then becoming and working back towards being one of the higher performing people in the team that they were previously, whereas they just lost their way for a little while.
And so that was a great epiphany and an eye opener for me going, you need to be really mindful that you're communicating with people in a way that makes them feel comfortable, that you're not always just defaulting to a method that makes you feel comfortable, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it does make sense. One of the things I wanted to talk to you about is, and particularly in the construction industry, there's a real skill shortage right now.
There's a lot of people trying to do more with less and really struggling to make time to do their own roles, let alone lead teams and things like that.So there's this real time factor that I hear a lot of people saying is, I'm struggling with time.
I don't have time to tell people how to do it.It's sink or swim.They've got to come in and figure it out.They have to know their job.
Thinking of that narrative, right, that people might be going through right now with the lead up to Christmas and things being busy, Where do you get the time, create the time, make the time?How do you make that process happen?You're busy.
I know that you've got your role, got a coaching practice as well that you've run, apparel business that you run.Of course, like everything.So how do you make the time and make that happen for your people?
And whilst not everybody might necessarily like this person, but I will often remind myself, Barack Obama, one of the leaders of America that I've had respect for, the way that I've observed him operate, he has the same amount of time in a day that I do.
And the vast responsibility that's bestowed upon him compared to the life that I live not even parallel.And so I'm really mindful that we all get the same amount of time within a day, but it's up to you how you invest that time.
I deviate from using the word busy.I don't like it.And the reason why I don't, it's like you have a catch up with someone.Oh, how you been?Oh, I'm so busy. Oh, great.What have you been doing?Oh, not much.
It's like it's this default response for some people these days where they claim to be really busy, but you dig a little bit deeper under the surface of that initial response that you get.The reality is, well, I'm not busy.
I'm just maybe I'm not motivated or I'm not feeling inspired or I don't have clear direction on the tasks that I need to focus on.And this is just not
related to work, I just find that's something that happens in a lot of the interactions that I have generally.
But what I also will always preface with people, if somebody's not quite where they need to be, and I go back to that situational leadership methodology, you've got a particular quadrant which is, I'm consciously incompetent associated with completing a particular task.
And so some managers can then be guilty of, well, I'm just going to do it for you. because I'm really busy and I don't have time to set aside to help you learn this, to make you more competent at this.
But what that does, it's the age old saying, you can teach someone how to fish or you can continue to fish for them.And by falling into the trap of just doing it for somebody because it's quicker in that moment, doesn't set them up for success.
And whilst they might have the ability to learn by observing, a lot of the time they don't.And then they sit within this particular space.And if somebody's consciously incompetent,
That's where they can feel disillusioned and disheartened and stressed out and overwhelmed.And if you allow someone to sit within that space for long enough within if they're new to a particular business, what do I want to do?I want to fix it.
And what some people will do in order to fix it is I quit.
And so it's really important that you spend the time to lay the right foundation that will enable that person to operate as an extension of you, but also operate as an extension of you successfully when you're not around.
And so I really lean in to take the time as burdensome as it might seem to be up front because you'd rather lay the foundation for success for them so that they can then go on and be successful when you're not around because your life is full and you do have a lot on.
You do have a bunch of other people that you need to spend time working with there as well. carve time out now, be really deliberate around the coaching and investment of time in that particular person, because they'll be vastly better off for it.
And over time, you will be better off for that, that investment of time as well.
It's thinking about that long term rather than reaction to the task that's at hand.It's like, well, if I jump in right now, I'm always going to need to jump in and we're never going to grow the skill set and capability of the team. I have a question.
How do you know if someone's just not cut out for that role?I think we have a saying sometimes we talk about in construction that we promoted to the level of incompetence, right?
Like they were in a role, they were technical specialist potentially, moved into another role and maybe it's just not right. How do you know?What are the telltale signs that it might not be the right fit?
Three things that I believe are our responsibility with every employee.It's our responsibility to give them the tools that they need to be successful.Hardware, software, systems, processes, the right environment.
Then we need to train them how to use all of those tools, software programs, your laptop, or whatever the tools might be.And then we need to give them time with which to use those tools successfully.
If we've done those three things and they're still not where they need to be, I dare say it's a reflection of them and maybe their suitability to the role.
But what I absolutely observe with people is we haven't always nailed those three things, and sometimes managers can be a bit critical of a particular person going, oh, they're not where they need to be.
And I challenge them, have you done those three things?And if they can't convincingly demonstrate, yes, I've given them the tools, I've showed them how to use the tools, and I've given them time with which to use those tools successfully,
Then I say, it's a reflection of the way that you're managing and leading that person.So you need to cover yourself off before you can point the fingers at that other person.
But if you've done those things, and then they're still not where they need to be, then I'm all about having an open and honest conversation.So if you've got clearly defined tasks or obligations within a job description,
And then you can relate it back to the day-to-day work that somebody's doing.And if there's alignment, happy days.If there's misalignment, great.You think about situational leadership.
Are there some elements of your role where you need some more support, where you need some more coaching in order to enable you to be successful?
And then you get to a particular point in time where it's also then having that honest conversation going, this is what we need from this person, and we've got misalignment right now.
Such a good example because I think where there can come a time where a person can be in a role for years or an organisation and then they just get to that point they might either be ready for the next role or something else and through that process you can uncover what that is.
And if that person does decide to move on, if you followed the process through understanding their position descriptions, the objectives in the role and what they need to be doing and you go through all of that and it's still not working,
I feel like the employee would feel more of a sense of relief about that because they know where they're at and where they stand.So often, companies will just want to let someone go and just say it's not working out.
And this person sometimes has never even had a conversation or known that they weren't doing well.And by the time they're finding out, it's like, well, you haven't made probation. So, it's a really good example and I appreciate you sharing that.
And it can be hard for people to have those uncomfortable conversations.
Like, I'll have them, I don't like them, but I also am really mindful, well, I'm also employed to do certain things and a part of that is having open and honest conversations with people, especially when they're not meeting the expectations of their role.
abundantly believe is one, we've spoken about this before, I don't think anyone goes into work wanting to do a bad job.Say that all the time.People don't show up not wanting to succeed.No one likes that feeling.
And so sometimes you're doing, if you want to have the hard conversation, it's almost a selfless thing to do as a leader.Put yourself in the person's shoes.They would want to know where they're at.
They would want to know if there's a growth opportunity rather than having the rug pulled from under them, you know.
So you've transferred different industries, and we spoke about this before.I get asked this all the time, how to transfer industries and change industries.So you're obviously a CEO now of Omni, and you didn't have a background in construction.
If you're up against other applicants that might have the construction background, how do you stand out?
And I've had conversations with our board and certainly with our executive chairman, Pete.And they had had senior leaders from within the industry previously.
And from the conversations we've had, they got to a point where they were just open and ready to do it differently.We don't necessarily need another technical person to come in and lead the business.
What we need right now is somebody that understands what's required in order to run a business successfully.And I was really fortunate that I got an opportunity to do that back at Mutual Marketplace. kind of seven years prior to coming to Omni.
And then it comes down to you understand how to run a balance sheet, you understand P&L, you understand back to that sort of recipe and ingredients scenario.
You have the ability to understand and diagnose what is required in order to enable this business to be successful.But then all the various roles that underpin the overarching success of a business.
And then make sure that, again, you come back to that communication and leadership and support.So it's getting that overarching clear visibility on exactly what is required in order to deliver and drive success.
And then making sure that all the people that underpin that, that operate as an extension of you, as an extension of the business, are all pulling in that same direction as well.And so for me, And I've done it a couple of times, fortunately.
I did it when I moved out of media into insurance, and I've received feedback at that particular point in time.
I was up against some pretty senior industry people, but fortunately, the lady who employed me at that stage, she rolled the dice and backed me, and I had some great success there.
And then again, when I moved from insurance into shared services and what then became a law firm as well, Again, I was able to demonstrate I've developed this repository of skills over time and they are industry agnostic.
And if you understand people and process and systems and finances and the commercials, that's common amongst any industry.
As long as you can then demonstrate I have the ability to bring my skill set over into this environment and then help those that are currently employed by the business in order to be successful as well, this sets you up for the best possible chance of getting a role.
I'm interested in the sell of it, right?Because I sit on the other end all of the time, you're reviewing applications, you know, you'll be reaching out to people in a long list or a market map and selecting the right talent.
Then you've got the interview process that you've got as well.So you've got this opportunity to sell yourself and your resume and what you bring into the role across industry.And then you sell that then in that interview.
You've been so successful in transitioning industries, how do you sell your experience firstly on a CV and then in an interview?
So even before when I have looked for roles in the past, what I will always do if there's a phone number, I'll pick up the phone and I'll have a conversation with whoever the recruiting person, whether that's internal or external, whatever the scenario is and go,
So your role looks really interesting.This is who I am.This is my background.Have a look at me on LinkedIn and then immediately just let's have a conversation.
If you think I'm someone that's in the ballpark of what they might be looking for and then if you pass that particular
And they go, yeah, you know, yeah, you could be a bit of an outside shot, but I think you've got some skills that would be of interest to them.Great.Now here's a personalized resume and a very targeted cover letter as well.
I see so many cover letters.To whom am I concerned? hiring manager, dear sir, madam, whatever.It's like a bit of a copy and paste and there's nothing specific that relates back to what we have said we're looking for within that particular role.
So that would be the next kind of step within the process.And then I'll always do a whole lot of research going in.Make sure that you have as much visibility over the organisation that you're going into as possible.
And then what I'm also really mindful of is asking questions.How did you perform last financial year?How are you tracking this particular financial year?
If I'm sitting down and I'm reporting to a board in this instance, if I'm reporting into one particular person, if I was to be successful and you're like me and I like you and we fast forward 3, 6, 12 months and we're sitting down and we're doing a fist bump and you're like, Richard, you nailed it.
What have I done?What are the things that I've accomplished within that particular period? that will give you the ability to view me as being successful as a candidate in this role.So I always have that.
I always ask the person I'm going to report into, how do you want me to communicate with you?Is it an SMS?Is it a phone call?Is it a Teams meeting?Is it a face-to-face meeting?And then what is the frequency of that?
And if we're having that particular type of dialogue, what's the sort of information that I'm feeding up to you?What's the level of information granularity that you want to get into?
Because again, I'm always really mindful, we had a board meeting this week, And I don't think I always gnaw it, but I always strive to.
I want to give them confidence and comfort that Richard's steering the ship in the right direction based on our strategy, based on the different initiatives that we have in place.So I always make sure that I've got clear visibility over that as well.
Yeah.That's a great example.So many of those things that you did, people do not do.The minute you pick up the phone, you become not a piece of paper and you become a person.
You become three-dimensional and then you build some sort of emotional connection with either that recruiter or the hiring manager that's recruiting for the role.
And then there's that opportunity because you've built that emotional connection, then you've moved into showing that you demonstrate writing a tailored cover letter and a tailored resume is such an underutilized
skill that people can do, which really does make someone stand out.So often people can get lazy on seek because you don't have to tailor it, right?You can just keep having the same cover letter and then using it for multiple roles.
But people can tell.And especially in some industries as the market tightens, I think it's really important exactly what you said is around showing that you actually want the job. You know, that's what you demonstrate as well.
You've researched, you've demonstrated strategic knowledge because you've researched the company, you've come in with really credible quality questions so that can then show that you're wanting to basically make sure that you're going to meet the objectives when you get into the role.
So I'm not surprised you got hired because that's a really good process. My next question as well is around business because you talk a lot around the business fundamentals are the same, right?
What are some of the fundamentals of business that you see companies, and obviously not referring to companies you probably work, you don't have to name names, but that you see companies struggle with, some common threads or themes, and what have you done to come in and course correct them?
Again, industry agnostic.A lot of companies can be guilty of not having clarity of purpose.What is the longer term goal that we as an organization are working towards?
Because unless you've got some longer term goals, objectives, and a vision on what it is, where do I want to be in 12, 24, 36, 48 months time, whatever the timeline might be, doesn't matter.
Unless you've got visibility over that, what meaningful work am I doing today?Am I busy for the sake of being busy?
Or am I busy focusing on tasks which are required to propel myself forward, the business forward, the team that I'm working alongside forward, as we work towards getting closer towards a realisation of whatever those goals might be?
And if you have then visibility over what are those longest 48 months go as one example.And if we're to be on track with the realisation of that, well, great.Well, what's the toll gate of the 36 month mark?
Where do we need to be at that particular point in time?24, 12, nine, six, three, tomorrow.
So every large, great, aspiring thing that people have achieved in life are built by this hourly, daily, weekly grind, being really committed and focused on the granular activities, which are propelling me forward towards the achievement and realization of that.
Some organizations can be guilty of not having that vision and not having that purpose.Or sometimes they have that, but then they're not being held accountable for the daily, weekly, monthly activities that are going to get us closer towards that.
So what we then do within Omni, so we work out a few different systems.One of them is called monday.com. And so we've got the overarching strategic initiatives that are embedded and board approved within the business.
And then we've got specific department level and initiative led tasks, actions that are smart goals.Make them measurable, make them achievable, make them realistic and make them time bound.
Something I learned from one of the many great people I've worked for over the years. what gets measured gets done.
And so then if you are constantly leaning back into what is the time-bound task that you needed to complete that's going to get us closer towards that, it'll make sure that you've got alignment with that person, but it also then makes sure that they've got clear vision on what do I need to do today, tomorrow, later this week, next week, and so forth in order to achieve a particular outcome.
I love the software tool that you've talked about as well and having different team initiatives.How do you communicate the overall company objectives and where this ship is headed at a mass level as well?
How do you find that you can communicate that so that everyone has a common understanding of what the whole collective is looking to achieve?
And I'm sure I don't get it right and don't get it perfect.
We're all still learning, Richard.
Yes, we are.But, you know, it's choosing the right level of information that you want to communicate really broadly across the business so that people understand, all right, I'm aligned to an organization that is going in a particular direction.
And then you then just start kind of cascading it through and giving more information to the appropriate people reflective of what you need their contribution to be towards the organization as well.
Yep, definitely makes sense.As CEO, what are some of the important things that you think people want to see from you as a leader to give them confidence in the organisation?
I'm really mindful about displaying resilience and about not allowing my feathers to be ruffled because every day is filled with lots of different hurdles and challenges.
And so I'm really mindful about not getting too caught up in the moment, not getting too distracted, going, oh, this is a really big problem now.And it's distracting me from what it is that we want to achieve over the longer term.
And so I make sure that I am pretty even-keeled with the way that I operate.
If I find, and my managers can attest to this, if we have time-bound activities and tasks that need to be completed and achieved, and I feel that the leadership team is not quite where they need to be, sometimes they get a sterner version of me.
But generally, I try and make sure that we're all working collaboratively together. in order to work towards achieving a particular outcome.I know I cannot do it myself.
I know that I need them to be operating effectively as an extension of the role that I fulfill.And I know that I then need them to be empowering their people in order to be then also pulling in the right direction.
So who cares what the board's vision is, what my vision is, if we can't then relay that to every different role type that we have within the business, which enables them to be all pulling in their own way in that same direction.
Awesome.I want to talk more about your personal life as well, because we've chatted about this as well.So all while being a complete powerhouse and working these roles, you've been through a personal journey as well with starting a family.
So I want to talk more around, you've spoken about what it's like, and I know you won't be the only person that's going through this, the IVF journey.Talk me through what that's been like.
So really fortunate, I've got an older son.He's a young man now and very successful in his own right.And then my wife, lots of married couples do, you decide that you want to create a small human and then you start going on that journey.
And then you can then get stuck, presented with roadblocks and things don't work out quite right.
And just keeps gradually evolving until you find that you're in this place, it's like, all right, well, now we need some sort of medical intervention, IVF, in order to help achieve that particular outcome.
And then Emma and I, we then started an IVF journey.And the initial doctor that we had, I don't like him.I'm happy to say that publicly as well.But his bedside manner was appalling.
And in hindsight, he didn't do the right type of diagnosis in order to understand what are the root causes which are inhibiting us from making a baby.So that was really disappointing, especially when you're forking out tens of thousands of dollars.
So expensive. And then we had a new doctor, we moved away from him and he was amazing, Dr. Yazdani.And so we'll say his name.And he was great.
And for the first time, he then started looking at both sides of the coin, not just Emma, but now really kind of acknowledging the role that I play within this.
And we then determined to realize whilst we went through a few more cycles with Dr. Yazdani, the probability of it ever actually happening was just getting lower and lower and lower.
And the percentage of probability of success was like low single digit percent on the last round that we did.This is kind of a 10 year-ish journey.Wow.And then you finally get to a point and it's like, done, we're out.
And I try and be pretty philosophical, but I'm not the guy that's going through, you know, the physical, the emotional, you know, roller coaster that a woman goes through.I just try and be supportive on the sides.
And so then for the last time, then we were done and we'd hung up the boots and now let's just move on because we have a great life together.And randomly, we're walking to a bar on a Friday night and we got a message out of the blue from a friend.
And then she was like, hey, random question, but I've got a work colleague or a work friend.They had done one round of IVF.They've had two kids out of it.And then they've made a decision.
They don't want to terminate all the fertilized embryo, but they want to give the gift of life to somebody else. but they didn't have anybody specifically in mind at that particular point in time.
That is so nice.That's just amazing.You've got me tearing up.
It was pretty random on a Friday night when you're headed to a bar for a friend's birthday, I think it might have been.And then there's a myriad of different types of conversations that fall in off the back of that.
You know, it was all about us creating life.And now it's about, is it about creating life any which way that we can?And lots of back and forth and lots of conversations.And then we said, you told Gator.
And so we were like, well, then we got in a line and we go, let's meet these people.And Jess and JP, as they are, we went and met them.And immediately we just, we got along really well.
And we met at that mutual friend's house at that particular point in time.And it was great.And there was a good connection.And then we agreed, let's exchange numbers.Let's get to know each other. And so that happened.
Let's make babies together.
And then so you keep progressing down that pathway and there's a lot of red tape.There's a lot of hurdles that you have to navigate through doing it within Australia.
And so you work through all of that because they're giving away kind of legal rights to to those fertilized embryos.Legally, there's up to the day of transfer.Once it's transferred, it's all with us.
And so passed over rights, and they're ours, and they were in Melbourne, and we got them transferred up to here.
And then even on the day of transfer, so they have a particular egg quality, it was A grade, six days, which is a good thing for those that don't know.And they were defrosting one, didn't make it.And they said, that's fine.We've got another one.
It was a B grade five down, something along those lines, defrosted that.And then whilst they're defrosting, the quality of it improved.And then that's what they did with the transfer.And that's now Henry.And the fact that he's alive, you think about
forks in the road, you know, that enable someone to be who they are.And so the fact that he's here is like against all odds, because he wasn't the first fertilized embryo being defrosted on the day.It was the next cab off the rank.
And so the fact that whoever that person could have been, and will never be, the fact that then he was the next in line, he was defrosted, he worked and now he's here and he's alive and he's turning six in April is incredible.
And so back then, 2019, not as common as what it's now becoming.And I don't know quite how it all played out, but media got a hold of it.And I think there was different news outlets within Brisbane and Australia wide that got onto it.
And then Australian Story reached out at a particular point in time, not to me, but to the mums and said, Hey, we've heard about your journey, your story, and we'd like to do a doco on it. And then again, back and forth, oh, I don't know.Oh, yes.
And then they're like, oh, it's not a great impulsive time.And 60 hours of filming later for a 30-minute video, you realize it is a pretty significant investment of time.But then Australian Story did a doco on it, and they did it really well.
Can't remember the lady's name that produced it.
But the way that they put it together and crafted it and then packaged it up and communicated it, we were really happy with that end outcome because you give them a bunch of information and then you relinquish control over where it might end up being.
But I think she really preserved the beauty in what had happened.So that was really nice.And we all agreed also that will tell the kids how Henry has become to be human.And then they've got two kids themselves.
And Henry actually has two full blood brother and sister that live about eight kilometers from where we are.Wow.Yeah.So they are a part of each other's lives.We catch up pretty frequently.
at this time, because they're young as well, they'll just know that we're sort of family and that we're special people and Henry's a really important part of their life.
And then just randomly, I'm an avid cyclist, as you do when you get a bit older in life, and I spoke to a couple of mates many years ago now. And JP happened to be one of them, who was the donor dad, and said, hey, got a business idea.
Why don't we set up a cycling apparel business?And JP and another mate, Andy, they're like, yeah, we're in.And so it's really just funny how life unfolds.
But from being complete strangers in 2018 to then giving us the gift of life by way of Henry to now we have a business together as well, it's just like,
just the best story.I mean, that's incredible.Do you know what?
And what gets me emotional about it is there's something just so pure and beautiful when somebody goes, especially with the gift of life, somebody makes that decision and says, I have been so blessed to have two beautiful children, and I want to give that opportunity to someone else.
And to me, that's the nice, really kind of genuine part of human spirit that you see in tragedies when people are helping out and building together as communities.
And you see it when people just want to help someone else for no reason other than they want to give that gift.It's just beautiful and so nice that now you're in business together and that they can be in each other's lives.
That's incredible. Because it also could have been they made the donation and then we are not a part of each other's lives.
And that could have been a decision that either party made, but we all chose to be a part of each other's lives and to maintain that connection.And since that time, yeah, they're two of the most special people you'll ever come across.
Yeah.One question I just have to ask, because I always say to people, be kind because people can be fighting about all you know nothing about in their personal lives.
How did you, for that 10 years, you know, be there for your wife and be able to be in the roles you've had?
What did you learn as a husband and a partner and then a father to balance the work priorities, but with also what she would need for the emotion and everything she was going through and you were going through as a couple?
Yeah, and I'm sure there's times where I didn't nail it, but I'm pretty philosophical about certainly the way that I navigated through that time.
And then what I try and be cognizant of and remind myself of when you're having an interaction with somebody else, and sometimes you just get really abrupt. version of that person.
And unless I know I've actually done something, I then try and remind myself, well, what are all the other things that could be happening in that person's life that might have attributed towards them having an explosion towards me at a moment in time, if I haven't done anything wrong.
So I try and just be mindful of that and then just understand if someone's been or whatever the scenario might be, probably not actually a reflection of me.
It's a reflection of a bunch of other things that are happening in their life at that particular point in time.So I try and reflect on that.
And then through that, because it is absolutely way harder on the female than it is on the male when you're going through an IVF journey. in your own way just to try and be as supportive as you possibly can with your partner.
And what we also had is then lots of holidays in between cycles to have something else to focus on.And Emma's a great planner when it comes to the different holidays that we've had.
So you would kind of go through a traumatic period, be really upset, and it's like, all right, well, now let's have something positive and exciting to focus on.
We did that by way of having a bunch of different holidays that we had every single year right through that whole journey just to make sure that there was something good, positive that we could both look forward to that was separate from kind of this emotional turmoil that we're navigating through as well.
Yeah, that's great.It's a really good way of being able to have those breaks.And I think it's important for anyone in roles as well.
with families and things like that to take those breaks once you have kids and things like that too and be regularly coming together as a family and as a unit and just enjoying life as well.
So what's the legacy with all of this experience you've had in business, this journey you've been on with Henry as well, what's the legacy you want to leave for your life's work?
Yeah, it's funny you say that.And so I had the coaching business and I've had that for a few years now.And it was sort of born and evolved out of the, I suppose, the interactions that I get a lot of value of having with people.
I really enjoy knowing that I've had a part in somebody's journey when they've grown and evolved in their own right. And then more recently, just set up a new business with a mate Duncan, it's called Siparsan.
And so now really, it's about evolving the different coaching work he and I have done separately into a web-based platform because I love goal setting, love understanding your strengths, your weaknesses.
I've done a bunch of vision boards over the years there as well. a visual representation of something which is important to you and then making it time-bound by way of goals.
And so now we're building out a platform which will enable people to self-serve, can certainly have it embedded within organizations as well.But, you know, the legacy to have a positive impact on people, just to help people and just to know that if
being a good person in life and your legacy will hopefully live years beyond yourself by way of things that you have implemented that have gone forth and I suppose had broad ranging positive impact on people in their lives in different ways.
So we're going to go into the rocket round now, which is a bit of a fun one, and it's just a few questions just to get to know you a little better.Coffee or wine?You know I ask the hard questions.
Depends if it's AM or PM.PM, wine.After work, AM, coffee.
Okay.And favourite holiday destination?
I love beach, tropical holidays.We have avid scuba divers, so anywhere we can go, we've got crystal clear water and then swim in it or dive under it.Absolutely love it.
Love that.And what podcast are you listening to right now?
I listen to the Mindset Mentor, listen to the School of Greatness, I listen to the CEO one, forget what it's called.Diary of a CEO.I listen to that one too.
Thanks, Richard.All very good podcasts.All equally as good as each other.
So yeah, I'm an avid consumer of audio books as well.I would ride, if I'm not traveling, I ride and exercise seven days a week, every single day.
And if I'm riding outdoors by myself, I'm either listening to a podcast or I'm listening to an audio book.So I smash podcasts and I get through a lot of audio books as well.Awesome.Cats or dogs? I'm allergic to both.Oh, wow.
But I'd get a dog if I was going to get one.
Cats, dogs.Okay.Goats, chickens.
Not allergic to chickens.
Do you have no pets then?
Allergic to everything with hair.
That's a random fact that I didn't expect.That's the first time anyone's had that answer, so that's good.And what makes you feel like you're home?
What makes you feel like I'm home?Like being grateful for what you have, where you are in that particular moment.
I practice a lot of gratitude, do a lot of meditation, but just being mindful of what I do have and not getting too caught up in what I don't, because there's a bunch that I don't, but the quality of life and what I have right this moment is pretty damn amazing as well.
Yeah, awesome.Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.How can people support you, learn more about you?What way would you like them to connect?
Oh, if you jumped onto the Omni website, there's certainly contact details within there.I'm an avid user on LinkedIn.Leave me alone on Facebook and Instagram.It's just for like my close friends and so forth. But yeah, reach out.
Don't reach out if you just want to sell something.Reach out if there's going to be mutually beneficial outcomes that we can discuss.But I'm more than happy to connect with people.
I'm more than happy to invest time in those that are worthy of it, that want to keep evolving in their own life.
awesome.Thank you.Can I ask something?We've had a lot of feedback recently and I get a lot of private messages through LinkedIn.If you love the podcast episode, share it.So share it on LinkedIn.
I know a lot of people reach out individually to the guests because I think we've had at least 10 or 15 reach out to a previous guest he told me this week.So share the podcast so more people can
get the message then and the value that you've got as well.I always say like, share, subscribe, rate, review.But I really think, you know, we put out the reels on LinkedIn and Instagram.We're not really into the Facebook, into the facey.
It's not really my thing.Again, I use probably Facebook and Instagram more for personal. But LinkedIn, we certainly promote the podcast a lot, and Instagram.So if you love the episode, please share it, and share what you got out of it.
Because the more you can do that, the more people that can be helped.And you never know what little piece of advice someone could take away from an episode that could change the trajectory of their life.
So thanks so much, Richard, for being the guest.
Thanks for listening to Building Doors.If you've got comments or questions, send them to hello at buildingdoors.com.au.And remember to subscribe, rate, and review.See you next time.
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