Girl, before we get to the episode, give us some breaking news.Breaking news?We have some breaking news.We have breaking news, fam.
Alright, for the first time ever in the eight-year history of Trick or Treat Obsessed, I know, wild, we want to tell you, fam, we have a fully edited, highly produced video version of this episode, the full thing, we're talking all 49 minutes of it or whatever, available right now for purchase on Patreon.
Yeah, so this is a little experiment.We're all going on this journey together, holding hands.Here's how we're doing.We're just gonna like see how you like it, how we like it, how it feels.Let us know your thoughts, but here's how it's gonna work.
So it's included for the Hero Bells as part of their tier.However, Hero Bells, I hope you're listening because I love you, but this is not your monthly surprise.That's coming next week.It's just gonna like live on the Hero Bell tier.
And if you are not a Hero Bell, do not fret because you can just purchase it, like a one-time purchase of like three bucks, which is the Patreon minimum.We couldn't go any lower.
We wanted to go lower, but Pedro wouldn't let us.We wouldn't let us.
So yeah, if you're like, hey, I want that, you can just purchase it as a separate standalone thing.
Anybody can buy it if you're not at the Herobel tier.And I want to just say one more time, it's highly edited and produced.This is not like we turn on the cameras, and then we stopped recording, and then we uploaded this to YouTube or something.
We gave it to Tom, our editor, who's also an incredible video editor.It is fun and funny.We loved making it, and we'll see if you all like it.
Yeah, this is, again, a journey we're all going on.We don't really know what we're doing.No one knows what we're doing.We're just all along for the ride.We thought it was going to be fun.We're having fun with it.
So it's just kind of like, is this a thing?Well, let us know if it's a thing.
So if you want to see the full video version of this episode, and you're not at the Hero Belt tier, just go to Patreon.com slash True Crime Obsessed.And you can just click it right there for $3.It's all yours.
All right, that's it.We love you.Yeah, that's it.Now to the episode.
I mean, or not bye.I'll see you in a second.OK, bye.OK, bye.
This feels like a Keith Morrison situation.It feels like he's moonlighting.
It's not.Keith is not here, unfortunately.When this episode aired, the listeners flooded my DMs.I know.I was like, you ladies want it?
You're getting it.You're getting it.Here we are. Hi, Jillian Benzavalli.Hi, Patrick Hines.Hey, fam.Join us over on the Patreon.I haven't flogged the drag bingo in a minute.Really?No, that's not true.I flog it every week.
I say that as like a, whoa, we should be talking about it more than.
We should be flogging the bingo, not flogging the drag queen.Right.Do you know what I mean?Okay.We don't do that unless everybody in the situation.Unless we all agree.Unless we're all into it.Okay.Which something tells me, Schwa, anyway, moving on.
Anyway, Schwa's a big yes-ender.
That's true. You gotta be in this crowd, you know what I mean?But if you do, if you wanna join the drag bingo, you gotta join the Patreon, and over on the Patreon, you get over 400 full ad-free bonus episodes the second you sign up.
They're ad-free, they're full-length, they're just like the episodes you get on the regular feed, except they go episode by episode through a popular series.
Yeah, or you can get these episodes ad-free as well.Or you get AMAs, or we do like sometimes old, old, old Unsolved Mysteries segments about like Bigfoot and UFOs, stuff we don't do on the street.
I'm telling you, if you are so inclined, go check out the Hero Belt here, because after we make episodes like just for them, and that's the old Unsolved Mysteries stuff that Jillian's talking about.
Yeah, and sometimes we tell you about other cases, like I just told you about the Charles Manson Beach Boys connection.
Well, you know what I've been thinking about?Like, that has not left my brain.So that's on the after-party tier, and it is one of the most fascinating true crime stories I've ever heard.
And you told it really well.It was very good.It's pretty far out, man, you know?It was pretty far out, man.Girl, what are we talking about today?
All right, so this is a mouthful.This is an episode of 2020 called The Secrets of the Lake, Season 45, Episode 28.We're going to Lake Mead, everyone.Let's hit it.
The Las Vegas of old and the dead bodies being revealed now.Authorities are trying to identify a fifth set of skeletal remains.Where was the body in the barrel found?
I thought maybe it's my uncle.
That sounds like a mob hit. Friends of mine actually call Lake Mead Lake Mafia.The body was found in a corroded barrel.
People are just all talking about this.It's all over TikTok.
We believe it's a murder investigation at this point in time.
People started realizing, oh, they're going to start finding more stuff in the lake as it gets lower and lower.
What happens in Vegas is supposed to stay in Vegas, stay secret, but nobody counted on the lake giving up those secrets.
The bodies haven't come to the surface, the surfaces come to the bodies.
Maybe giving answers to a young girl who saw her father disappear.
We could hear him say, help, you better hurry.That was it.
Somebody out there is sweating, because they know we've got the body, we've got the evidence, and it's only a matter of time before we find out who it is.
So, can I just start by saying that I had to watch this with ads.You know how I hate that.What about Hulu?So, I thought this was Dateline.So, I went to Dateline on Hulu to try to find this episode.Dateline does not have a season 45.
And Dateline's on Peacock.
But I found it on Hulu.It's on Hulu, too.Really?Uh-huh.
All right.Well, we're here.Here we are.
We made it.We're also in Lake Mead, the deadliest lake in America.Right.
One of them.It's about 30 miles from Las Vegas.It is man-made because in the 19- I'm going to say person-made.
You cannot tell me a single trans person or woman was not involved.
Well, I mean, in my- I know you're not saying that.No, but like in my mind, in the 1930s, a bunch of white guys decide to blow up land that wasn't theirs and make the Hoover Dam. And Lake Mead, you know what I mean?
Lake Mead was created when the water flow from the Colorado River slowed down.
A lot of shit went down.I gotta tell you, I've listened to a lot of podcasts about Lake Mead because it covered a town and so many people die in there all the time.We're gonna meet a bunch of family members of people who died in there today.
Yeah, this episode rudely wants to be really silly about it, but it's like people are dying and they're unidentified.
This episode is ridiculous.It's good.It's a very interesting episode, but it's also silly.
But they're trying to be like zany, and it's rude.
And how is it that Keith Morrison pulls that off in a way that nobody else can?Because he's Keith Morrison.I know.
It's kind of one of those like, don't worry about it, things like it's a secret of the universe.
But like from a quick reference in an old Mark Hamill movie to the fact that the Pamela Anderson sex tape was filmed there, like Lake Mead is the stuff of legend.
a casual observer of the Pamela Anderson sex tape when I was in college.Like, back in the day when everyone gathered around somebody's VCR in their dorm room.
And then you apologized for it on our episode coverage about it.I say that because, like, it's one of those things where, like, we all owe a lot of women a lot of apologies.
Pam Anderson is one of them.But I gotta tell you, if you were watching that video just for the scenery, it is gorgeous. Yeah.You know what I mean?Like it is.But it's also like one of those.
Akin to reading Playboy for the article.
One hundred percent.They had great articles.They did.I know.I know they did.
But what I was going to say was just like Lake Mead is also terrifying because it's so deep and dark and like nothing is scarier to me than an evaporating lake that you see what was fucking put in there.Yeah.
Now I also I've talked about this on this podcast before.I have that thing where I have I cannot look at footage of underwater.Yes. And we get a lot of that in this.And it is very, very, it's not that it's hard for me to look at it.
My Apple TV, my screensaver is like nature and earth.You can pick like a couple of things.And mine is that, and I love it because it is underwater.It's like seals underwater.
I remember this from being at your house.
I knew it was one of those things where I wasn't planning for it.If we're talking about it now, I know that about you, but I admittedly wasn't like, we can't have the screensaver on.But you have Spotify on your Apple TV, right?
And then when it goes idle, that's the screensaver.And I love it and you do not.And I was like, oh shit.So then when you were over, I always made sure that we were keeping it moving.
I just, my thing with it, I don't know what it comes from.The Indigo Girls will tell you that it's like a past life situation.And maybe I died on the Titanic or something.
Because especially with the Titanic, when you see underwater footage of the Titanic, something happens to me and I start to shake.It's scary.
It's very scary.It feels very suffocating.Yes.It feels, I mean, the amount of the ocean we don't know about.
And just bodies of water.
It can be very scary.And you really are fascinating. Like, it's, you know, and I just don't ever want to know about it.I know.Watching this lake, and we get so much footage of this lake in this episode having evaporated and all the fucking debris.
There's a town that showed up.I know.You know what I mean?
These things are true.Many things are true here, because Claire White is here.She's a historian for the Ma Museum in Vegas, which I've been to, if you haven't.It's incredibly interesting.
Yeah.But she says... Since the 1930s, according to Park Service officials, more than 300 people have drowned in Lake Mead.
In fact, it is consistently the deadliest recreation area in the whole national park system.
The deadliest recreational area in the whole national park system.You gotta stop going in that lake.And we know the national parks are scary and dangerous.
Again, many things are true.Gorgeous.We should be able to respect it, but people don't respect it.Or people are evil and bad things happen.
But like, if there was the deadliest amusement park in the country, nobody would go to that.
Oh, so many people are going to it.
You're right. Absolutely.
We did a whole live tour about it.That makes people want to go to it.Hey, Seth Porches.Haunted and deadly, you say.But I'm just saying, like, we know that if you go into this lake, you have a high likelihood of dying.
And I think other people would be like, well, that's no way to live.
The fear of everything all the time.
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It is.It really is.Look you smarty pantses.
You know. So it's May 1st, 2022.Yeah.A barrel appears.
It wasn't washed up.I'll get into why I'm using the word appears.That's for a very specific reason.But a barrel appears.
That's just it.See, the victim hadn't been found in the lake and that barrel hadn't washed up on shore either because the hundred feet of water that once covered it, gone.
And there was a body inside and this man did not drown.They were shot in the head.
And the bullet obviously wasn't inside the barrel, but 2020 is making a big deal.But I'm like, of course, the bullet's not in the barrel.
I was like, is this everybody's first episode?I mean, they were really going nuts about like, no, no, no, no.And the bullet wasn't found in there.They didn't put him in the barrel and then shoot him.That's not how this works.
Yeah.He was shot in the desert and driven to Lake Mead.Have you heard about the mafia?
Have you seen Casino?I've been pre-prepared by One Jillian Pensivale for the lessons we are going to be receiving this evening about mafia stuff.
We're just going to discuss one of the best scenes in movie history.And I won't budge on that.I'm not taking any questions about if it's one of the best scenes in movie history.It objectively is.
You had a minor in film, as I recall.I do.You had like a concentration in film.
Interestingly enough, we did not go into the Wonders of Goodfellas, which I think is a travesty.
And I just know it because... My friend Eric in college made me watch all these movies.
I loved all of these movies.I've seen them all.I love them.
That Marty Scorsese, he knows what he's doing.
You heard of your first.Really rooting for that kid. So, Lieutenant Jason Johansson is here, and he's the head of the Las Vegas Metro Homicide Division.
Now, we get like a slow zoom on this guy standing by the water, sunglasses on, zoom in on the badge.I'm like, I get it.Can we get to work?
I gotta say, like, you know, Vegas has a 90% close rate for their cold cases.This guy kind of gets a slow zoom, if you ask me, unless he's garbage.
Well, my only issue with that is that Phil Ramos, who's also investigating, does not get a cinematic intro.And I'm like, unless Phil can't be bothered, in which case, great.Now I'm full on projecting.
But I'm like, why does one guy get it and the other one doesn't?
And it's also like, I'm going to take back my slow zoom situation, because we just did the whole worst ex ever, where the Las Vegas PD totally fucked over all those women.They could have just quickly and easily looked.
They just could have listened to a woman who said, can you help me?
I know.They literally said no to her.In fact, they put her in prison.You know?
Oh yeah, which one are we talking about?Some they put in prison, some they were just like, fuck you.
But a 90% close rate on their cold cases, that's pretty good.
I mean, when you show up to work and have a job to do.
But for a place as storied as Vegas, you know what I mean?Like, that's a lot. I guess a lot of closing.
So what we were saying before, this barrel did not wash up on shore.No, it used to be 100 feet underwater.But because we're destroying our planet and the water levels have plummeted, the barrel did not move.It just was revealed.
And we learned that water levels have dropped 150 feet since the year 2000.
Google tells me if the water level drops another 145 feet, the reservoir will reach, quote, Deadpool, meaning it won't be able to provide water or hydroelectric power to millions of people.
Which is literally why it was created.
This is not an opinion, this is fact, this is science.
Can I tell you something crazy that's going on in the world?I have Google Alerts set for this shit.
People who have been missing since the 60s and 70s are turning up in rivers because their cars, when they accidentally drove off the bridge or whatever, their cars were so far submerged, but now due to climate change and the evaporating of the rivers, these cars are appearing out of nowhere and people are being found.
Google this, I'm telling you, it happens not infrequently.
Right, because, and well, Stephanie, a state climatologist is here.
First, wait, hang on a second.She is the Tiptonist nerd.Like, she is, I love her.She has this moment at the end that made me cackle out loud.She is perfect.I love this woman.She's just a nerd and I love her.
She's here to, again, spit more facts and truth.
She just says pretty bluntly.Large parts of the Southwest have been getting warmer for quite a long time.And over the last couple of decades have also had a number of years with lower than normal rain and snow.
And so as a result, those reservoir levels have been dropping slowly over time.
And as a result, the reservoir levels are going down.This is just a fact.
I mean, this episode proves it.I mean, like the lake is 145 feet less than it used to be.
Right.So like because of this, animals and creatures who lived in that water have now disappeared, which is horrible for the ecosystem.But as investigator Paul says, now, quote, the secrets of the lake are being revealed.
Quote, the bodies haven't come to the surface, the surface has come to the bodies.
So like, thanks to all of these, I know, these environmental issues that we have caused, human beings have caused, all of these remains are being discovered.
Yes.And suddenly all of these families of missing people are suddenly hopeful that it's going to end up being their lost loved one.
Right.And we will talk to some of those families in a minute. But right now, we want to find out whose remains were in that barrel.Like, what happened to him?Who is he?
Yeah, there's no blood in the barrel, interestingly, but they are able to extract DNA from the bones.
Yeah, so Dr. Jennifer is here.She's a forensic anthropologist.
She's amazing.She's awesome.She loves her job.
Yeah, so because we don't have blood, they're going to use things like bones and teeth, the clothes in the barrel.
Um, excuse me.They described this body the way they would describe my body.They said because of the clothing, they were able to determine that he was, quote, not a small person. I did not appreciate that.Well, they're just looking at sizes.I know.
You know, but they're trying to get all this information because they have like a watch and a belt.This guy was fully clothed.He was wearing sneakers.
And we learn about skeletal models and how they can help us get information about someone.
Can I just say one more thing?Like, speaking of being quirky and trying to be silly and funny, this ABC guy, Chris Connolly, who you're saying is from MTV?
He says, and I quote, Inside that rusty barrel, there's a forensic time capsule of well-preserved clues.There's a watch, Kmart clothes, and sneakers.You know, it turns out you can learn a lot from an old pair of kicks.
Turns out there's a lot you can learn from an old pair of kicks.
You know what?I was like, girl, this is what I mean.
But then also we go on to learn absolutely nothing from these sneakers.
Yeah, nothing about the sneakers.But Dr. Jennifer says the pelvis is the most reliable indicator to determine assigned sex at birth.So we know that this guy was born a male, right?And using the clothes, they can determine his body type.
They say this was not a small person.
They also say that he was killed somewhere between 1975 and 1985.I was like, that does nothing to help us. That's too big a window.Vegas, you gotta tell me how you got this 90% close rate.Cause you know what I mean?Like a 10 year window.
I know.And I'm like, well, the shoes were, didn't we have like turnover with the shoes?
But regardless, everyone thinks it's a mob hit, you know?
So let's go back. As soon as I heard that, I was like, oh, now I know why we're covering this.
When I got there, I was like, this is why I DMed.But actually, a lot of people were saying like, this is a really important thing to talk about the role of the environment in this and climate change and stuff.
So that was a bit, we haven't really talked about what climate change is doing in terms of crime and finding bodies.And just like, we've never discussed that.
Honest to God, if you are a person who killed somebody and dumped them in Lake Mead because it was truly, and I'm not being making a joke, it was a great place to dump a body, you're probably kind of nervous now.
Yeah. Let's go to Vegas in 1970.
I gotta tell you, like, nothing has ever made Vegas more sexy to me than, like, this five minutes of this episode.
You know, the 50s and 60s and a little bit of 70s in Vegas was a vibe.
We're told that Frank Sinatra's retired.That is not, sorry, insufferable GP fact.That's not 100% true. He announced his retirement in 1971, but he didn't actually retire until 1995.
And all of the bios I read today were like, Frank Sinatra retired for the first time in 1971.
I mean, taking the page out of Cher's playbook.
Cher and like the Rolling Stones and all of those people, they all retired 800 times.
When I retire, I'm going to be like that guy from that town in this episode where I'm going to walk out of this booth and light it on fire behind me.
Yeah, fuck it. So, you know, Sinatra was kind of winding down retiring for the first time, but Elvis was running the strip.He had a bunch of residencies and sometimes he'd do like two shows a night up to seven days a week.
Like how fun is that?Like imagine like inventing this entertainment mecca and you just get to be the literal king, you know?
The King.I'm sorry, can we take a quick divergence while we're talking about The King?Of course.I just saw this in an interview on TikTok today.
Lisa Marie Presley and her kids would sometimes go and sleep at Graceland, which is like the former, she lived there until she was like seven or something.Right, right, right.
And the Graceland, so apparently the only places in the mansion that are not on the tour are Elvis' bedroom and Priscilla, the mom's bedroom.They would sneak Lisa Marie and her kids into the bedroom so they could sleep there at night sometimes.
And if they didn't get out by the time the tour started at 10 in the morning, they had to stay there all day, they were trapped.
Can you imagine, like, you're at Graceland getting a tour, fucking Lisa Marie Presley walks down the stairs.
I guess the estate had some kind of... I don't know if they still own it or whatever, but, like, wild, right?It should be like when the queen is at Buckingham Palace and the flag's at half-mast.Yeah.
They should have that kind of treatment at Graceland.You know, I was shocked they didn't.Maybe they do.They should.They should.
Now, the mafia, the Italian mafia, was going strong, because remember... We would not have the Las Vegas Strip if it was not for organized crime.
They were sort of the quiet operators and owners of the casinos.They're considered the founding fathers of Las Vegas.
The Italian mob built Vegas in the 40s.It was, you know, a lot of organized crime, but mostly like the Italian mob, the Jewish mob.
So that's kind of where we're always going to go back to, especially at least with the case of trying to figure out who is in that barrel.
Well, especially so what was so convenient about Lake Mead was that if the mob needed to get rid of somebody in a hurry, Lake Mead was just 30 miles away.They say Lake Mead is often called Lake Mafia.
I know. And they love that.
Because, look, a lot of people have gone missing from Vegas, and... And they also say that being shot in the back of the head and placed in an oil drum is a signature of the mob.You would know better than me.
Yeah.Okay, great.I mean, yes.As would our experts at the Mob Museum who are here.
But according to everyone we speak to, the most likely person is a man named Johnny Pappas, and there's a photo of him standing next to Liberace.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be insufferable, but I wrote down a bunch of these annoying, like, meant-to-be-funny quips. So I wrote them down.I had to say them in reference to who's in the barrel.
They say, so who was the Vic?Well, mob savvy citizens of speculation nation have their own ideas.
Mob savvy citizens of speculation nation have their own ideas.Chris Connolly.Who's the Vic?Mob savvy citizens of speculation nation.
We're not gonna be kooky and zany and silly.This is 2020, goddammit.Keith Morrison would never.
That's what I'm saying.It feels like they were trying to rip off the Keith.They're like, make it 2020, but we want a Morrison vibe.
Yeah, but Morrison would say things like, I'm like a sidewall.Pesky DNA.You know what I mean?That's how you get a zinger in.Or I don't give a sweet flying fuck like he said to that murder. You see how he doesn't bounce?
We need you interviewing more murderers.You know what I mean?
Next season on Jillian's Law. Girl, Rocket Money is back.We always get excited when we have Rocket Money because we're both obsessed with it.
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They say that the man most likely is Johnny Pappas, right?Yes.And Patricia, his niece, is here.And she says that, like, you know, he was rubbing elbows with every famous name you associate with Vegas.He was, like, larger than life.
You couldn't sneeze in Vegas without sneezing on a star at the time, it seemed.
But, like, she just, like, Patricia describes it.Basically, he was, like, living that famous scene in Goodfellas at the Copa.We are here.
This is the scene.If you haven't seen it, please, I mean, watch the entire movie.I know it's really violent, but it's just excellent.
No, it's great.It's really, really good.
Excellent movie.The soundtrack is perfection.Everyone in it is just like top of their game, like excellent.
But this scene is super famous.So it's Henry Hill and Karen are on their first date.It's Ray Liotta and Lorraine Bracco. And he's, like, really trying to impress her.He really likes her.So this is the scene.It's all one shot, famously.
It's shot from behind.And then he kissed me as playing.But Henry Hill, like, leaves his car on the street, and he and Karen walk in through the back of the Copa in New York City.None, not a single millisecond of Goodfellas takes place in Vegas.
But Patricia is, like, if you know the scene, like, you know exactly who her, what her uncle was like. So they go through the kitchen and Henry Hill's saying hi to everybody.Everyone's happy to see him.
He's sneaking people 20s, like super charming, handshakes, tips.They're being treated like royalty, but they're going through the back of the Copa.So we're traveling with them from behind, right?And he's acting like he owns the place.
And they finally get to the main room at the Copa.And then the camera is still one take shifts.And we see a guy walking through the crowd with a table above his head.They're bringing a table to the front row.
And it just has like the white tablecloth on it.Then suddenly other like waiters appear.They put the little lamp on it.They put the place settings.They put the whatever.They are bringing this table to the front row.Right.
And as soon like their butts aren't even in the seat.Lorraine Brocco and Ray Liotta.More people are saying hi.Oh, Hey, Henry, so great to see you.He doesn't even sit down and the server's like, oh, here's a nice fancy bottle from that guy over there.
And Karen, Lorraine Bracco, is in awe the entire time.And finally, they're sitting down and he's like, they're all settled in, right?And she goes, what are you doing?
What?What do you do?I'm in construction.
What do you do?And he goes, I'm in construction.And that is just like, but the whole, we just saw that like she's in, she's like watching this whole thing.She goes, you gave everybody $20.Like, what do we do?What is going on?What do you do? do.
Oh, my God.But the point is, Patricia saying she saw this firsthand.Everyone loved her uncle.She was Henry Hill walking into the Copa from the back through the kitchen.
And more than that.So Johnny was working at a place called Echo Bay.So Johnny, again, is the guy they think is probably the guy in the barrel.He was working at a place called Echo Bay, which was, quote, the gem of Lake Mead.
And it was like a really popular spot for the mafia.They love to go hang out there. And Patricia, who is his niece, her whole entire family was planning to move to Vegas to go work for Johnny at Echo Bay.
But that doesn't happen because on her birthday, they get a phone call from the police saying that he's missing.
Yeah.So his wife Cheryl says that he was almost driven off the road while driving back from Lake Mead.
So here's something very important, though.
At the time of his disappearance, he was contemplating becoming a government witness.And that was just, you don't do that.
That's like signing a death warrant in 1970s Las Vegas.
thinking about cooperating and talking to the government.Now, that will almost always get you killed.That's never good.
Why would anybody do that?Like, why?Why would he do that?Maybe the cops had something on him?Of course.
I mean, they will approach you if you have something to offer them, you know, or they'll say, like, oh, we'll put you in witness protection or, you know, whatever.
It just seems like he had it pretty good.I don't know why he's trying to flip on anybody.
Yeah, I mean, they say here it's like signing a death warrant.It is.Like, if they get wind that you're talking, you're going to cooperate with the federal government, like, it is over.
So it's like, that's not good.Now, who?This is where we shift from Goodfellas to casino, everyone.
We're doing a Scorsese double feature.This is a real GP film lecture.I'm into it.
These movies are so good.
I know.They're very good.
They're so good.And Sharon Stone in Casino.Oh, God, I know.
When she throws the chips everywhere, like no one on earth could get away with that other than Sharon Stone in 1968 or 1970 in a casino.So the main suspect in this murder is Tony Spalaccio.Now, he was a super hot-headed guy.
Enforcer, he's a murderer.He's a cold-blooded killer.He worked with what they describe his frenemy, Frank Rosenthal. They are Joe Pesci and Robert De Niro in Casino.So Pesci was Nicky Santoro, a.k.a.
Tony Spillaccio, and De Niro was Sam Rothstein, a.k.a.Frank Rosenthal.
If you see Joe Pesci, he is the spitting image of this guy.He looks exactly like him.
Very, very, very loosely based.Now, in Casino, another fun fact, they can't reference, like, just so Scorsese can kind of be like, It's like loosely, but like barely.It's barely those guys.They never say Chicago.They just say back home.
So that's like another way to be like back home can mean anything.I don't know what you're talking about.Oh my God.So special agent Deborah Richard is here and she goes.
Tony Spolato was an enforcer and a murderer.And if they wanted somebody killed or murdered, he was the guy.
But really, he's the guy.
Cold-blooded, I mean, terrifying guy.
And we know, because Patricia, the niece of Johnny, probably the guy in the barrel, tells us Johnny and this Palatro guy were co-mingled.They were involved in everything the other one was doing.
Yeah.Now, Oscar Goodman is here, who's Tony Spalatro's defense attorney.And he goes, there's no way he did it.He was on trial for murder in Milwaukee or somewhere.I can't remember where we were at the time.And I'm like, Oscar, do you hear yourself?
There's no way he did it.He was on trial for murder in another state.
Well, he also didn't live that long.We found out Spalaccio gets killed in 1986.He's buried in an Indiana cornfield.
He's like beaten, strangled, and buried.
By who?What did he do?What didn't he do?He just knew too much.
He knew, but he's also, they were at the, this is crazy. At the time, there was like a big mafia war going on.So people were getting out of line.
And according to the very, probably not at all, Tony Spilaccio, but Pesci in Casino was kind of a little too big for his britches.That's just a fictionalized movie.None of that ever, ever, ever, ever happened.
Oh, he's fiction.Fiction.
Fiction. So now we learn, separately, separate from the barrel, it's like these people on the beach find a gun in the sand.It's very close to where the body in the barrel was found, but the cops don't think it's connected.
It doesn't seem to come from the same time period, they say, and it wasn't the right kind of gun, I guess.
Yeah, but again, a lot of shit went down at Lake Mead, so this is what we mean.The water levels are lowering, and now we're just finding a bunch of shit.
If that gun didn't kill the guy in the barrel, it killed somebody.Why else would that gun be at the bottom of the lake?
Okay, Dallas Rowley is here.His lower third, he's a YouTube treasure hunter.I said, I'm sorry, what?He's a diver and a treasure hunter and he puts this all on YouTube.
We spend a lot of time this episode with podcasters and YouTubers that are just basically going to Lake Mead to like see what they can find. Subscribers messaged me on social media and said, you got to go to Lake Mead.
We could find some pretty crazy stuff.
Who knows what we're going to find, but it's going to be an adventure.
Some people even have the belief that there may be money buried in some of these barrels.
And kind of being shitty about it.
Yeah.There's also like a gross Better Call Saul lawyer.
Oh, there's definitely a Better Call Saul lawyer.And there's also someone who's literally making money.We'll get into all of that.
Well, the Better Call Saul lawyer is here.He's got a billboard that says, injured while searching for bodies at Lake Mead, demand compensation.
Did you know you have rights?The Constitution says you do.Better Call Saul.But this guy, this Dallas guy says, just because you throw something in the water doesn't mean it's gone forever.I'm like, what is this, the internet?
I know.Nothing's gone forever?In 1986 or whatever, in 1970, they weren't talking about climate change.Nobody knew that Lake was going to be evaporating, you know?
But because people are insane, people are going to Lake Mead trying to find more dead bodies, like random people.Like, please don't do this.And if you're one of them, like, don't do this.
The thing is, I'm kind of okay with it in the sense that, like, it's made very clear you're not allowed to touch anything.You're not allowed to take anything.You can't, like, treasure hunt.And if you find anything, you're supposed to call the cops.
And I'm just saying, like, if the cops are like, nobody go out there, we're going to go there every day and look for bodies, then fine.
But, like, if there are missing people and families that don't know where their loved ones are and someone's going to go looking,
Right, that's one thing.But people who are doing it for likes and clicks and like some idiot, I didn't write their name down, selling Lake Mead corpse water, you can go ahead and fuck yourself.
Like, go find a fucking lake that's not gonna evaporate because we're destroying the earth and fucking stay there.You're disgusting.
Lake Mead corpse water, there are, like you're saying, families and loved ones, unsolved murders, or just tragedies, which we'll also get into.
Could truly, like somebody could organize this in a responsible way and do like a search committee at Lake Mead and like, you know, do it the right way.These podcasters and YouTubers are idiots.I am not signing off on any of this.
And this person with the store, eventually she's like... It was just a dark joke that has now gone viral.
My hope is that it garners attention so more people will know about what's going on with our lake.
Well, I'm just, like, trying to bring awareness with what's going on.I call bullshit on that.No, you're not.
You're trying to sell corpse water, Carl.
Like, that's gross.Stop.Also, DJ Jenner is here, boat captain and pro diver, showing us all the things that used to be underwater, but they aren't anymore because the water is receding.
This was the moment in the documentary where I was like, what is this episode about?I don't know what this episode is about.Is it about the guy in the barrel?Is it about the history of Vegas?Is it about the mafia?Is it about the treasure hunting?
Is it about the evaporated lake?Because we see like a houseboat.Now we're taking a tour of a houseboat.
And I'm just like, why isn't anyone taking any of those options seriously?Like, this is really sad.This isn't quirky.I hate this.
I want to say to all the people in your DMs, I love this episode.I want to be really clear.I really like this episode, but what the hell is going on?
is going on and like it all needs to be taken seriously.I'm the Debbie Downer throwing like water on this whole party being like stop everyone.But we love you anyway.
You should lead a search party at Lake Mead.
Like, if the families say it's okay, then honestly anything to help.
But that's the whole point.The families don't know.You know what I mean?We gotta match the bodies to the family, not the other way around.
I know.Like, the earth is on fire, everyone.
I know.I know.We also, at this point, learned that there is a 1948 bomber plane sunk in the lake.
Yeah, there's like a lot of shit.
This is where they take the care, like even talking about it just gives me the heat, like it makes me go like inside myself.
It doesn't make you feel like you're there?
Yes, but it's the creepy factor, it's not the suffocation factor.Interesting.It's the, I don't know what's there, like I feel like someone's gonna grab me from behind, you know what I mean?Okay, that's fair enough.
It's one of those things and like they do it without any like warning and all of a sudden we're just underwater looking at this plane, which And everyone is saying, like, it's amazing, like, you're allowed to go diving there.
It's a really amazing thing to go do.
For now, until it fucking evaporates.
Well, it's going to be at the surface next week.You know?Yeah.But it is pretty cool that a bomber plane is there.That's all.I guess.And nobody died in that crash.Five guys were in the plane, but they all got out.
I blocked that out completely.I was like, we're talking about a plane?Oh, shit.Where are we in my notes?
What is this episode about?
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There's no safe like SimpliSafe.Next week it's gonna be like, and Noreen will move in and sit on your couch.She doesn't need to sleep.
SimpliSafe has never said that.SimpliSafe does not guarantee Noreen to come move in. Then we learn, and it's also just like, and then this, and then let's learn a fact, and then let's learn.So we learn about Johnny Roselli.
He was Chicago's Vegas guy before Tony Spolaccio, AKA Joe Pesci from Casino, Nicky Santoro.
You need to teach a class.Like, you gotta teach a class.
You know who's gotta teach?Mike has to teach a class.
Mike, like, subscribes to, like, what's going on in the Mob Today newsletter.
He knows, like- Can I ask the dumbest question?
Like, is it still happening?
Uh, there are like a lot of people, a lot of people running their mouths about the mob on podcasts and like on YouTube.
And I think it's crazy that there are people like reporting about what's going on, like in certain cities and this country about what's going on with the mob.I mean, Beatlemania of the mob is long gone for sure, but like it's still going on for sure.
Can I tell you one time when I was bartending early, early in my bartending career, I met this like a scary Italian guy and I asked him if he was in the mob and he did not think it was fucking funny.Why did you ask him that?I was so stupid.
Like I didn't know, you know, like I was just being my silly self like, oh, are you in the mob?
But he was already scary.
He was already scary and I was just trying to like make an in and just, just like trying to be, you know, whatever.And it was like, he was like friends with the owner of the restaurant.It was late at night and it was just one of those things.
What did he say?He, what did he say?He's like, you don't ever fucking ask anybody that question.
You should have a canned answer for that.
Yeah.Well, tell me you're not in the mob without telling me you're not in the mob.Tell me you want me to think you're in the mob without telling me you want me to think you're in the mob.
He just said yes to you.He confirmed it.
So this guy, Johnny Roselli, he was killed and he was put into a barrel and that barrel was thrown into the ocean.So what they're saying is because that barrel made its way to Miami where it was discovered.
So what they're saying is like dead bodies and barrels, that could be a mob thing, like this Johnny Pappas guy who they think maybe that body, like he was connected to the mob.
So it's another sort of tick in the column of like, this is probably mob related.
could easily be mop related.So now we get to learn about the town of St.Thomas, Nevada.This town was completely covered by the lake in 1930 by like the creation of the lake.
And now that because of the evaporation, the town has started to re emerge and it's crazy.We learned the town was established in 1865.There was no water source.It was only a dozen or so families.
This is a town with no electricity, with no running water, and so you need to find your good, clean family fun, and you did that in the ice cream parlor.
Ice cream was a real luxury for any city, but to make it out here in the desert, would be especially wonderful and nice.
But there was an ice cream parlor.And a hotel.Yes.But the ice cream parlor was like a big deal.Like, at first I was like, thought it was silly that there was an ice cream parlor.But then they're like, no, no, no.Think about this.
1865, an ice cream parlor in the middle of the fucking desert.Yeah.You know what I mean?Like, how fucking cool is that?
There's like a dozen families.It's like the one place to be.
And we see pictures and it just looks like the Old West.But then in 1928, the government signed the Boulder Canyon Project Act, which I guess it was signed by Calvin Coolidge, who at one point stayed in that fancy hotel.
He was a regular at the Hotel Gentry.
But then the creation of the Hoover Dam is what makes the town go away.
Right, so in 1920- But not like right away.
It like slowly floods the town.
Yeah, because it was originally called the Boulder Dam.
And then it was the Hoover Dam and everyone left town.
But that has got a storied history.
They say in 1938, a guy named Hugh Lord wakes up in this town, St.Thomas, and he's like, there was water under his bed, there was water under his house.He gets in his rowboat, sets his house on fire and rides off in a literal blaze of glory.
The Angela Bassett of it all.I mean- I cannot take it.
It's a choice. Just burn this house to the ground.
Fuck this.I'm out. Water?Fuck this.There's water?I'm out.He's like, you know what?The fucking ice cream parlor was out of rum raisin yesterday.I knew shit was going down.
I didn't move into the middle of the desert in Nevada for fucking water.I know.To be encroaching- Totally.On my person.
I came here for a very specific reason.
He just, and like- Just gone, bye.And then got in his rowboat and paddled off.
I mean, that is an alarming amount of water to wake up to, that you can row through it.
That is, I mean, I get it.
I get being like, whoa, this is, like, it feels personal then.Like it's coming for you.
I need to leave.Like they flooded a town, girl.
One of the podcasts I was listening to about this a long time ago, people used to, you could scuba dive through the town.Like you could like scuba dive and like go see the buildings and shit.
Well, not anymore.The town's back.It's all above water now.See, exactly.
So May 1st, 2022, we're back to the top of this episode.
Yeah, so we're back to the beginning of this episode where we found the body in the barrel, right?Right.
Yeah.We find this barrel, and then a week after that... Sisters Lynette and Lindsay Melvin went out to the lake to paddleboard, and they stumbled on something in the sand.
So right over here, just probably right there next to the water, we stumble upon the white rock that appeared to be like bone.
They are like taking a walk on the lake and they find human bones.
Yeah.And they're not the only ones.By July, more remains are found.Seven sets of remains have been found in six months.
I mean, can I just say those girls went out there to paddleboard and found a body?That's horrifying.The lakes aren't safe.The woods aren't safe.Stay inside.Make a podcast.
I'm going to sound like a crazy person, but because we've never respected it, the ocean, the woods, honestly, we've never fucking respected it.
We stole it from the indigenous people who actually made a big part of their lives and their society and their culture about respecting it.We took it over, stole it from them, stopped respecting it, shit all over it, and now look.
Now it's killing us. Are we shocked?
We should not be.We had this coming.
I gotta tell you, the body that was found in July of that year, a man was swimming with his 11-year-old daughter, and they find a fucking torso floating in the water.She's 11.She'll never get over that.
I'm not making a joke.Like, that is something that you never unsee.
If that were me and Daisy, it would be Daisy holding my hand.She'd be fine.She wouldn't give a shit.I would never get over it.She wouldn't give a shit.I'm sorry.
She's unable to be found.
I came in today, Daisy's here at the office today because Steve is out of town and so she's here when I walked in and I walked in, I went, hey Daisy, she goes, my dad's in the bathroom. I went, okay, hi.
I was like, that's cool.I'll just go find myself.Daisy loves you.She's just weird with the goats.
She was in her own little world.I mean, I'm interrupting her space.I get it.
But again, she would be the one who's like, he's screaming again.
Yeah.Oh, by the way, a week after they find the floating torso, this man says the lake called him back.He brings his video camera, takes us back underwater, which I did not appreciate, where he finds a femur. A femur.He finds a femur.Not good.
This lake is full of bodies.It's full of bodies.Stop swimming in it.
Now I have to say though, this isn't always a mystery because sometimes these discoveries are bringing closure to people.
Like Tina Bushman and her father is Tom Ernst.
As a kid, Tina Bushman spent idyllic days on the water here, on the family boat with her beloved father, Tom Ernst.
I think we spent every weekend that we could there.So it was my dad's favorite place ever.
It's their dad's favorite place to go.So we learn her dad died in 2002.The family, okay, this, I'm sorry, Tina, I love you.This sounds insane to me.It's scary.The dad would take, and the dad sounded awesome.
He was not one of those scary dads like all the other ones.Yours and his are the two good ones.But they would go out into the lake in the middle of the night for this thing they called the midnight jump.
Now it wasn't actually midnight, but it's when it was so dark that you couldn't see anything.
And that was the point, right?The point was that it would be super dark and they'd take their boat out into the middle of the lake, do these midnight jumps, and that was like the point and the thrill of it.
Tina says, because jumping into the water that is completely dark is super fun.I said, Tina and I are fundamentally different people.That is terrifying to me.
Yeah, that's something that you would never, ever do.
And I'm a very good swimmer.I'm a very strong swimmer.I love to go swimming.I love the ocean.
And night swimming is a thing.
I mean, night swimming is very... But I'm not like going to the middle of a fucking pitch black lake.And again, no shade to the dad.I know people do this.
This is a you specific thing.
It's very me specific. And I'm sure you're not alone, but this is just like... I said under my breath, me and most people.That doesn't seem like a thing that most people would want to do.
And this is a thing that they would do all the time, right?
So they say they're out there and the dad is telling the kids the water is too choppy, it's too dark, nobody jump in as he fucking Geronimo's into the water.
And now Tina's dad, Tom, jumps in the water and everyone's worst fear comes true, right?Like it's all fun and games until it suddenly becomes incredibly scary and the worst day of their lives.
They don't tell us exactly what happened, but I'm assuming he was saying the water was too choppy.It was like the currents were probably going.If there are currents in that lake, I don't know.
My guess is that it was pitch black and he couldn't see the boat.
I think he jumped in not knowing because it was too dark.And then when he was in, he's saying, nobody else jump in because they are saying, and this is absolutely, I was like, oh my God, I couldn't believe, this is so sad.
The water was so choppy that he got separated from the boat and the boat was moving.So the boat was moving too fast and her dad just like disappeared.I can't even talk about it.
I know, I know.As he was trying to swim back to the boat, he was like, hey, the boat's moving too fast.
You could see his hand on the ladder.
I remember his hand hitting it, like barely hitting the ladder.We could hear him say, help.We could hear him say, help.And then we heard him say, help.You better hurry. That was it.
It is so, so, so scary to me, like, this pitch black wall.And, like, they don't tell us how the story ends.
They basically just say that, like, we learned the kids went and lived with, like, family in another, you know, in another state when the dad didn't come back.But, like, the kids were young.How did they get back to shore?It's the middle of the night.
Their dad is out.Like, how long were they out there?I, like, need to know the details of the story.Yeah.Because one of the kids had to drive the boat back, and they were, like, young teenagers or something.Like, it's...
Or maybe it wasn't that far.It was just the water was really choppy.I'm not entirely sure.But the point like tragedy has struck.
I can't even I can't even imagine this because they say like they were never able to find his body, which means that the water took him so far and so fast.
And his remains were never found.And now it's 20 years later and we cut the fucking commercial.I know.Or we do that fade out.If you're watching on Hulu commercial free.
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We come back, we're back to the body in the barrel story.It's been 40 years.The Pappas family really wants to know if it's him.They offer their DNA and they're hoping that it'll get tested.
Yeah, because the cops think, remember, he was about to flip and cooperate with the government, which is a very vulnerable and scary place to be when you're dealing with the mob.So the cops are like, it looks like it might be this guy.
So now we go back to Tina.
And hers is the dad that disappeared in the lake in the middle of the night.
Yeah, her father, Tom.And she, like, it's just so sad because she says that, like, her brother, she and her brother were, you know, moved in with relatives out of state.
And she said for years she thought maybe her father hit his head and doesn't remember his family.And that's why he never came home.
Yeah.And they just, like, never had any closure.Or, like, you know, it's kind of the fantasy that he's out there with amnesia, just walking around, not knowing who he is or who they are.
And she's like, we knew it probably wasn't true, but you always have to hold out hope.And then 20 years after he went missing, they get a call and they're asking for their DNA.And they are told they found remains on the beach.
They think it might be their dad.
And I'm wondering, too, like, because there are so many other remains, like, there have been seven sets of remains, right?And I'm like, well, what about everybody else?
Because we learned that investigators have been able to determine that there were four sets of victims from the seven sets of remains that they'd found.
And I'd love more on how they were able to say that we think this might be the dad.You know what I mean?Right.Like, because it was just bones.
And so it wasn't like there was any... Maybe they did the DNA testing and they were able to get some kind of profile, but, like, I don't know how they were able to connect it to Tina.
I wonder if they were probably just cross-referencing.
Like, they were trying to say, like, how many males or unsolved or what happened and then just, like... Because things were, like, as many... This is so horrible and morbid and I'm sorry, but, like, for all of the mob activity that happened in that lake, like,
Tina's dad was reported.Yeah.So now that they have a record of that, I think they were just calling cold cases.
And I'm sure Tina was one of, like, maybe tens or hundreds of calls.So I think she, like, we're just talking to her because she was a match, but I'm sure a lot of people were reached out to.
Were reached out to.Yeah. Well, speaking of, so we learn about another man named Kenneth Funk.Now, I looked up his story because the documentary does not do a good job of telling it.Horrible.So here's what happened.It was June 19th, 2004.
He was on a pontoon boat with his wife, Annette, and two other family members.They look like they're in their, like, maybe late 40s, early 50s.
A wave hit the pontoon boat and threw Annette from the boat, and just minutes before, she had taken off her life jacket to change her shirt, so she didn't have a life jacket, she wasn't a super strong swimmer.
Kenneth turned off the engine and jumped in the water to save her.I don't know where the boat went.Like, I get a sense that this is very fast-moving water or something.
It must be.It must be.It must be a very strong current as well.
Because it was like, he swam to her, took his life jacket off himself, put it on her,
He knew without a doubt that one of them was not going to make it.He treaded water for as long as he could, but he knew.He even told her, honey, do not hold on to me.You hold on to me.I'm just going to drag you down with me.
Do not hold on to me because I'm just going to drag you down.And the family thinks that he had a heart attack.
He jumped in to save his wife.
Took his life jacket off himself and put it on her.Then didn't try to hold on to her, like he knew it was a life or death for one of them, and basically sacrificed himself for her.
I mean, it's like, it's unbelievable.
It's unbelievable.So Jessica, Kenneth's daughter, is here because, again, they just want closure.They just want the remains, you know? Something about their dad.So she's hoping to get some closure.She gives a DNA sample.
None of the remains are her father as of yet.And she says, you know, she's OK with that.She's staying hopeful.So law enforcement keeps identifying remains like Claude Russell Pensinger, who was a fisherman who disappeared in 1998.
And he was the one that was found by that 11-year-old girl and the dad. I know.
And Donald Smith, who went missing over 50 years ago.Yeah.Now all of the news, I had to pause on this.I was like, what am I seeing?I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me.
All of the newspaper headlines refer to him as the words that to me look like North vegan.
As in the fact that he was from North Las Vegas.But I seriously thought they were obsessed with the fact that he was a vegan.Me too.That's what I thought that meant.So it's North Vegan like Vegas and not vegan.
Oh my god Shit, like can we find this person like stop heart like okay boomer.He's a vegan.
Yeah, sometimes people don't eat meat But or animal products, but I didn't know I like it for some of my eyes like weren't used to seeing it Yeah, no, I'm with you.
I had the exact same thought I was like I think I was a vegan moved right on I don't I was like, yeah every headline like what am I missing here?
And that's just a thing.I learned about how they Anyway, I don't mean to make light of it But I was being an idiot today and I wanted everyone to know
No, you're perfect.Can I tell you, we get to the end now, and we don't know who's in the barrel.
Yeah, it just really ends with 2020 being like, well, I hope you had a fun, zany, kooky time.
We're all gonna keep hoping that we find everyone.Bye, see you next time.
Like, what?We get the climatologist, Stephanie.Remember I said she's the fun nerd that I love?She said something in the end that I was obsessed with.Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.Her voice is nerdy.She's just so my people.
I love her.She's perfect.She's tens across the board.Tens across the board.She goes, I think looking at Lake Mead now,
definitely should cause people some concern and should cause them to think about how we should be using water effectively in a very dry part of the country.
The reason Lake Mead was created was to bring water to this area of desert that people were moving to to live in, you know?And so maybe we don't use it as a recreational area.
I mean, I know that we need a place for people to go and people to swim, and it just seems very, very, very dangerous.
It does seem very, very, very dangerous, and we have fucked it all up, so we gotta do better all across the board.But it does seem like, at what point is it like, maybe this should just be a preserved spot?
Maybe it's just a reservoir or something, you know what I mean?
Maybe you can't just go in it anymore.
Maybe.But I'm sure that people from Vegas are going to be like, what the hell are you talking about?I'm sure.It's a major part of our life.I'm sure that that is true, but it just, there needs to be rules.
Like, I don't know, like don't go in after dark or something.I don't know.Yeah.It just, and you know, and speaking of that family, it ends with Tina.She was the one whose dad died in the middle of the night.She's paying tribute to her dad at the end.
And she was saying like, you can tell that she's part of a community of people who have missing loved ones.Cause she's just saying that like.
Tell people, I'm like, don't give up.Don't give up hope. you know like we you don't know if they'll be found but if they are that'll be really nice but until then you know don't give up hope because you never know.
The next call could be about you.It's true.You gotta keep hope alive.
Cause she lived it.Like every time the phone rings, you're hoping it's the call that she got.
Ending on a little bit of hope, GP.
I'm trying.We gotta stop.I mean, in 20 years, this lake isn't going to exist anymore.
That's what the scientists said.I mean, literally like the lake from Dirty Dancing where they do the lift is gone.You can still go.You know what?How dare you?We should just fill it in with a hose.You know what I mean?How?I know.
Dare you say that to me right now.Oh my God.
You can still go to that place and you can stay there, but the lake is gone.And there's a sign in the dirt where they did the lift.Jesus Christ.We can't have anything.Sorry, I thought we were going to end on hope.We can't have anything.I know.
Oh my God, girl, we did what's it called?
So this is our bonus episode, but it's a 2020 episode called The Secrets of the Lake.
It was a really good, interesting episode.Keep those suggestions coming, fam.You guys all have really good ideas.
And I wouldn't have it any other way.I know. Join us on the Patreon, like I always say, drag bingo once a month.You got the 400 Philadelphia bonus episodes.You got the special episodes for the Herobel tier.
You got the after parties where we're telling you cases we haven't gotten to yet on the regular.It's so much fun.There's so much there.Just go to Patreon and search for True Crime Obsessed.You'll find it. Uh, what are we doing next, girl?
All right, so because this is a bonus episode, you're getting this just on a Thursday, right?So tomorrow on Patreon, our second episode of Mastermind with everyone's favorite person, Dr. Amberjuss.
Next Tuesday on the regular feed is our second episode covering Into the Fire.Yes.And next on Patreon is The Black Widower.
We got a lot going on.Lots of good stuff.
Lots of good stuff.All right, we love you.We love you.Stay safe out there.All right, bye.Bye.
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