It is.I think the series is going to be really hard to cover.Yeah, we're doing it sporadically.Yeah, we're going to, like, sprinkle it in on the regular feed, but goddamn, are these women amazing.
They are amazing. Speaking of amazing women, hi Jillian Pensilvally.
Oh my god, hello fellow amazing woman Patrick Hines.
Oh, thank you, I'm so honored just to be nominated.Oh, me too.Hi girl, how's it going?
You know what, we're surrounded by amazing powerful women today, so I'm feeling really good to go.
Alright, we aren't going to tell the people what we're going to be for Drag Bingo on the 23rd, but we did just tell each other.
Because it's spooky, it's Halloween.
Spooky system.So we're dressing up.If you don't know fam, we do drag bingo once a month for Patreon at the five and above.We are doing the next one on the 23rd and it's come in costume if you want to, but like no pressure.
Yeah, you don't even have to turn your camera on.
No, but our costumes are pretty good.
I have to say our costumes, I'm not saying anything other than they're both very on brand for each of us. And that's all I'll say.I will leave it at that.
Mine came yesterday.I tried it on.I'm very excited.I can't wait to show the film.So if you want to play Drag Bingo, just join us over in the Patreon at the $5 level.
Just go to patreon.com slash True Crime Obsessed or go to our website, click on the Patreon link.And you also get like 450 full ad-free bonus episodes when you get there.
What are we doing right now?What are we covering?We're doing The Man with a Thousand Kids.
Oh, wild.We did like the Cult of Mother God.
And also Mastermind about Amber, just who I'm obsessed with.
Yeah, she's like the lady who changed the FBI.
She's amazing.Again, surrounded by amazing women today.
Well, alright, tell the people what are we talking about today?
So this is that show on Netflix, Worst Ex Ever.We did Worst Roommate Ever on the Pates last year.
We're also going to be doing, so we're sprinkling in Worst Ex Ever and we're also going to be sprinkling in season two of Worst Roommate Ever on the regular feed.Did you watch the first episode of that?
I was almost killed by my BFF or something it's called.
Oh my God.Horrifying. I've been watching the new Netflix show Eric starring Benjamin Cumberbatch and Gabby Hoffman and it's really good.
Benjamin.You're not the first and you won't be the last.
And you know it's a fake name.That's not his real name.
Benedict Cumberbatch.He's the one time.
He literally was like what's the most weird interesting name I can come up with and that's what he did.His name is like Jonathan.Okay.Screw you Cumberbatch.
So I go around to the back door, and I hear, bang!Just bang!Oh my god, she's screaming.After the first time she screamed, I hear, bang, bang, bang.And I'm thinking it's her, like, hitting the walls, like, wanting me to hurry up.
And then I'm trying to get the door open.I can't get it open.And I'm trying to kick it open.And then she screamed again.And then I hear, bang, bang, bang again.I mean, the most god-awful scream you've ever heard in your life.
Ambulance is coming, honey.The garage doors open, and I'm like, what is... What the hell?Like, how did I miss that?So I start to sprint into her house, and Ben Foster comes out.And I'm like, what the fuck is going on?You're inside now?
He says, why don't you go in there and get her and I'll get the car ready and we'll take her to the hospital.
OK, so what's going on there?
All right, girl.So we open with a truly horrifying 911 call, which I guess we need merch for at this point.
I mean, like that word, like the phrase truly horrifying.
We literally say it every single episode.I know.We open with a truly horrifying 911 call. I don't know on that merch.As it was coming out of my mouth, I was like, I don't think that that's gonna make a good, no.
Do you know I got served an ad for, again, this is not an ad, but from the NBC store.
They have a mug that just says the words especially heinous on it, which is a reference to the SVU opening, sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous.Why on earth would you want a mug that says especially heinous?
Mike was like, do you see this shit?
That is especially heinous.Who is buying that mug?Does that mean you're a sex offender?I don't like it.
And definitely, yeah, I'm going to strike my idea from the record.We'll just move on.
Angie Milner sits down and she listens to a 911 call that she made.
And she's hearing it for the first time.
And because this all took place, this 9-1-1 call happened in 2023, we have the 9-1-1 call and the body cam footage.So we're hearing her, and we're also seeing it in real time.It's really wild.
Essentially, this woman, her friend Justine, has called Angie's mother.Angie called her and was like, there's something wrong with Justine.Call 9-1-1, get over to Justine's house, see what is going on.
So Angie's on the phone, in the car, trying to figure out what's going on.She gets to Justine's house.The doors are locked.The doors are never locked. She goes around back.She hears a screaming and banging.She can't get in.
She goes back around to the front where the garage door is now opening.
But like out of a movie.So Angie's like banging on the door.She's like, Justine, Justine, are you there?Like, what's going on?She doesn't hear anything.She can't get into the house.It's like eerily quiet until she goes around the back of the house.
Angie hears Justine screaming.And I'm like, this piece of shit is choking her.Oh my God, I'm going to kill myself. Like, Justine is screaming.Angie, who called 911, hears banging on the walls.
Like, Justine is, like, saying, like, hurry your ass up here, girl.Like, I need you, please help me.Now, I'm like, where the fuck are the cops?She called them two minutes ago.Why aren't they here?So, Angie is screaming to Justine that help is coming.
Like, Angie's like, girl, I'm here.The cops are on their way.Angie runs to the front of the house, and like a horror movie, out of nowhere, the garage door is suddenly open.And Angie's like, I'm like, what the hell?
How did I miss that?And the confusion on Angie's face, even in retelling the story, is like, wait, what is going on?
Because she's like, it wasn't open when I got there because I would have ran into the garage.So suddenly she's like, who like said there's like an entity who's like aware that she like out of a horror movie.
Then Angie like runs into the garage and Ben Foster comes out, not the actor Ben Foster.Oh, who's that?He was in Freaks and Geeks.
So not him.But this guy, piece of shit's name is Ben Foster.
And we hear this entire exchange on the 911 call of Angie and the piece of shit.Angie just goes, what the fuck?
Ben lies and says, oh, Justine is having a heart attack.And Angie's like, OK, then why am I the one calling 911?Like, what is going on?
And he tells her, he says, why don't you go in there and get her and I'll get the car ready and we'll take her to the hospital.
— Angie walks into this harrowing scene.There's a fucking noose around Justine's neck.
— And she hears this guy take off in the car.She says to 911, like, the guy that just came out of the house, Where is everyone?
It feels like this has been 10 hours.
And Angie, oh my God, is comforting Justine, telling her she's not alone.
I gotta tell you this is- But we don't know how long, she's in and out of consciousness.She's not really awake.There's a noose.She had a noose tied around her neck.
There are bruises all over Justine.There's blood everywhere.Everywhere.Hearing Angie comfort her, I just, this was a really, really tough one.
So we'll get back to this story later.
Girl, Helix is back and the timing couldn't be better.I have a great story for this.Perfect.So we gave away our apartment last weekend to this organization that I work for.We let them stay at our apartment and they sleep there.
And this woman, Kelly, slept in mine and Steve's bed.And I swear to you, she talked to us about our Midnight Luxe Helix mattress for like 30 minutes and then she got online and ordered one.
Now the thing about Helix is you take the sleep quiz to pair the perfect matches.She didn't even want to do that.She wanted to go and order the Midnight Luxe because that's what she slept on in our apartment and she was obsessed.
Yeah, so that's why I love the quiz because if you happen to sleep at a friend's house and use their Midnight Luxe and you love it, that's great.But if you have
a partner who has very particular sleep parameters, or you do, or if you're a hot sleeper, or a cold sleeper, if you're a side sleeper, stomach sleeper, whatever, you take that quiz, and in like two minutes, they tell you the mattress that is gonna be perfect for you.
I just, like, in a world where there are a thousand mattresses, our friend Kelly slept in our bed.I'm like, this is an ad.She went on for like 20 minutes.
Right, and she's like, can you stop talking to me?I'm on the phone ordering my Helix mattress.I'm on the site right now.
So fam, I swear to God this is real.I'm not just saying this because this is an ad, but she found out when she placed the order in October, they are offering 20% off all of their mattress orders.
Yeah, you just have to go to helixsleep.com slash TCO.
So listen, be the Kelly you want to see in the world.And like Jillian said, go to helixsleep.com slash TCO.If you want to just sleep how I sleep, get the Midnight Luxe or take the sleep quiz.
Yeah, 20% off all mattress orders.Let's go.I know.I'm in. We meet some of the cops who showed up, right?Because this is January 24th, 2023 in Grants Pass, Oregon.
So we meet like Lieutenant Jeff and we see all the body cam stuff.
Body cam is like a major part of this.A lot of the information we're going to get throughout this is from body cam.
And the 9-1-1 call. Because we hear Angie say, please hurry.This crazy psycho guy has done this in Vegas before here.I know who he is.He's got a bad record for beating people up.And it's just really like, it's horrifying.
And Detective Jeff walks in.He says, I've been in law enforcement for 33 years.I've seen very few scenes as horrific and terrible as this one.
Angie, the friend, the hero right here, recently met this boyfriend.She's like, I just met him a few days ago.The only thing she remembers about him, she goes, he has this like weird little ponytail that fucking gives me the ick.
But she says, like, because of Angie, the cops are learning he is violent, he is abusive, he is evil.There's a record of it.We need to get this guy now.
Yeah.Detective Jeff says it was obvious that Justine had been tortured and hurt.He says tortured.
Tortured. So that's 2023.Now we're going to go to Vegas.It's June 2012.
She says there was a time when she thought... At one point, I did think that Ben could have been the one for me.It's hard to pinpoint the emotions that you feel when, you know, you love someone and unfortunately, this person could have killed you.
But it's how it always starts.They're always beautiful and charming on, you know, for week one.That's the point.
That's what they do.So Amber, again, all these women are amazing.She met this guy in Vegas.They were working at the same hotel.He was a bar back.She was a server.
Can I just say they were working at a day club.I was like, I have to worry about day clubs now.Like just the existence of nightclubs isn't bad enough.Vegas, baby.
It's like an airport.Like, time does not matter.Time is a construct.It does not matter.Like a day club?A day club.And for the pool, you know, like, it's a whole thing.
Oh, God.It may not be your thing, but it's our thing.
I went to Vegas one time.Had not a good time.
Like, Vegas, if you do it right, it could be a pretty good 48 to 72 hours.It's really fun.
I would like to experience it with you, but I would also like our husbands to be there.Sure.
You have to.I know I sound like a whatever, but it's hydration.Hydration is a major, major part of it.
I do like that you can get drinks outside and walk around outside with cocktails.I really like that.I think that's a great thing.
It's a great thing.You need to have so much water because it sneaks up on you.
You're like, oh, it's a dry heat.
why people can't handle Vegas.
Anyway, moving on.So he was a bar back.She was a server.
She's like Amber was like, I wasn't looking for a relationship, really.But that's kind of what it turned into.
Like he's got like we're covering this on the patron right now with the man with a thousand kids.I wasn't really looking for a boyfriend, but he was cute.He was tall.He was athletic, had ice blue eyes and long hair.
And like everything was great at first.Like, you know, he was sweet.He was leaving her love notes.
We had a normal relationship.We would go on dinner dates, go to Disneyland. you know, hang out with all of our friends.But Ben was just not very comfortable around people.He's a very, like, lone wolf kind of person, very closed off.
Ben was controlling and jealous, but what he would do is hide it by saying that, quote, he doesn't like being around people.That's not what it is.He doesn't want Amber to be around people.
So imagine, we see pictures of them out to dinner with their friends, and it's like him sitting on the other side of Amber, and Amber looking away from him to talk to people, because he doesn't want to.
So like the night would always end early, probably, or there would be some excuse, or it would be like, OK, why don't you just go, and then it would be like tension.
Or like, how long do we have to stay before they even get there?
She describes him, she says he was more of a lone wolf, which is just like, there's something predatory about that language.
But like, not all lone wolves, do you know what I mean?Don't weaponize it and use it as like, either you don't want, like you just, he just doesn't want her around anybody.
Because Amber was in touch with her ex and her ex is not from this country.She was helping him get like a visa and documents, like all, and this ex is engaged to somebody else.
Like Amber is being a good friend, helping him with visa documents, some of the most boring shit in the world.
The problem with that is that, one, not only is she in touch with her ex, a guy like Ben cannot handle that at all, but she's also helping him with something important and something that doesn't have to do with Ben.
Like, that's a major problem for him.It's not going to end well.
And also, Amber says, I think he was projecting because I would find out later that he was during this entire time that he was jealous of my ex-boyfriend.He was seeing his ex-girlfriend.Yeah, that train's never late.Never late.
So also, just a thing about Ben.He had a very intense passion for guns and knives and martial arts.He would get new knives every week, new guns.We would go to gun shows every weekend.It was an obsession.
He was getting new knives and guns every single week.
Now, is this a red flag or is this normal for some people?
My thing is, I think there are people who really like, wow, here's an old weapon from the whatever.
And that is very interesting.
And then it lives on a shelf behind glass.
Do you know what I'm saying?
This guy, again, it's like, oh, I, you know, I'm a loner.No, no, no.You just don't want Amber around people.Oh, I'm a collector.Yeah, that's the ticket.No, no, no.You just want to be holding deadly weapons.
Like you're not an actual collector or a responsible gun owner.
You know what I mean?Like you, you're just using this as an excuse to just hold dangerous things in your hands and threaten people and kill people.
And also to sort of like kidding on the square, let Amber know who's the boss.Because Amber describes that he had a practice knife where he would mess around.I'm like what the fuck is a practice knife?Practice knife.
He would pretend, she says, and I quote, he would pretend to slit my throat in a really playful way.But you can hear the way her voice changes when she says it.
Right.And she's like, well, at the time, she kind of didn't allow herself to see it as alarming.But of course, looking back, knowing what it is now.
I mean, I just like when you see like people, you see like young boys or men like play fighting with their girlfriends and like shit like that just always makes me so uncomfortable.
What makes me really uncomfortable is the things on TikTok where it's like, this is my boyfriend and my best friend.And they're like all over each other.And it's like, girl. Two foxes in the henhouse, girl.Like, what?Have you ever seen those videos?
Where it's like— Where it's like the boys are all over each other?No, the boys and, like, my best girlfriend is— Mike and my best girlfriend are all over each other.And then it's like, isn't this so great?They get along so well.
And then the stitch is always like, who's gonna tell her?Like, that's not good.Or, like, the bridesmaids would be like, here's my husband with my maid of honor.And it's like, what?
She thought it was vodka.She didn't know it was tequila.
I thought it was a lemon drop.I didn't know it was tequila.
All she wants is Wingstop.She worked 10 hours, all she wants is Wingstop.
I missed the Wingstop thing, I think.
Oh, I like Justice for Squid, I lived for it.
Do you know what's been on my free page?They're eating the dogs, eating the cats, eat the cat, eat, eat the cat.And then there's like, it's in my head all day long.So, okay, November 2014, they're together two years.
Amber and Ben.Amber and Ben.
And they get into a fight, and this is a, you know this is a bad relationship based on what Amber has told us, but it's really bad also because they're not good at fighting.
So like, Ben is being a tense nightmare, as he always is.
She describes him as fidgety and shifty.I was like, is he on drugs?
Yeah, he's being sort of, I don't want to diagnose him, but like manic.I mean, he's very agitated.
And Amber is pushing his buttons.And so, like admittedly, she's like, me being
The person that I am, I'm trying to push his buttons.I told him that I threw away a brand new gun that he just bought.And then he pushed me down and he hit me.Slapped me.A pretty hard open hand slap.Like he was in a blind rage.
You could see it in his eyes.
He immediately slaps her and throws her down on the floor.She describes him as being in a blind rage.She says you could see in his eyes that he was not the same person that I was in love with.He was a stranger.
Right.And like this had been brewing for quite some time.And like they can't hide who they are forever.Eventually the mask
Like, two years, you know what I mean?Like, is this the first time he hit her?Like, Jesus, you know?
I mean, she says it's the first time he got violent with her, but I think that, I mean, if they were fighting and she had so much rage towards him that she's, like, pushing his buttons, this wasn't good for a really long time.
Of course, yeah, yeah.But she grabs her keys and she gets out of there.She calls the police right away.The cops take her back to the apartment where they cuff him and put him in jail.
Yeah.Um, yeah.So the cops here suck, but they, okay.They, they did one right thing, I guess, for two minutes.
We got onscreen texts that this guy was ordered to attend domestic violence counseling and perform community service.I doubt he did that.
Of course.And within a few months he's out of jail.
Yeah.Amber, now Amber has broken up with him officially.
But this guy is now stalking her.Unbeknownst to her.Right.I mean, which is usually, that's kind of how it starts now.
I mean, it doesn't always, but I mean, she is just whatever.So it's September 2015.I remember she's in Vegas.So it's really, it's like a really rainy day.She was like, it was a super rainy fall afternoon.
She's going to like get her pumpkin spice latte, watch football with her friends, like have a real fall day.
But she needs a jacket.It's raining.It barely rains in Vegas.So she or does it rain in Vegas all the time?I'm sorry.I didn't look up the rainfall.
I'm so sorry.I don't think it does.
I don't know.But so she gets home to get her jacket.And who is there waiting outside for her?Ben, this fucking creep.
Which like jump scare.Fucking terrifying.He's screaming and yelling at her, banging on her car, trying to get her to get out of the car.She won't.She's insisting that he leave.And he does.
He gets in his car and drives away.
And she waits 15 minutes, she says.
before she goes into the house.And so she walks into her closet to get her jacket.And while she thinks she's alone, she's just running to get her jacket and meet her friends.Ben attacks her.
This guy somehow in that 15 minutes, like, took the long way around and broke into her house.
Same, without her noticing.
so that he can ambush her.
Right, hide in a closet.And when you're Amber, when you're anybody, and again, I don't know, but you can't imagine this is gonna happen.You know what I mean?Nobody imagines that your fucking ex-boyfriend's gonna be hiding in the closet.
No, to violently attack you, because Amber describes what happens, and it's just, it's horrifying.
I'm just kind of like a rag doll at this point.He is dragging me on the floor. He goes to slice my face.I put my hand up, and he almost slices this pinky all the way off.
I'm bleeding all over myself, and I am just thinking that this is probably going to be the day that I die.
He likes his weapons, so he has knives on him and he takes a knife out and goes to slice her face.
Now, I believe he would have done that because what he wants to do is, quote, make her not pretty.We're going to see him do that again to other people.She puts her hand up, thank the Lord, and she says, he almost sliced my pinky off.
So Amber is on the floor bleeding, laying there, and she tells us, she's like, this is it.She's thinking in that moment, this is how I'm going to die.Like, this is it.
But he pulls her into the garage.
Yeah.And the violence continues.She says he's wailing on her.
Like, he's like, I'm sorry to like, this is really hard to say.I'm sure it's hard to hear.He is beating on this woman just relentlessly.
Right.And for what again?
I was saying this to you when you walked in today.It was the only thing on my mind.What does he get out of this?I will just never understand violence like this.
You get it cerebrally, but you could just obviously never relate to it.
I don't understand this poor woman who's just on the ground.She's already basically unconscious, but you're still hitting her.When you watch a documentary like this and you're not that kind of person, these are the things that stay with you.
So for some reason, thank God, he gets up off her.And Amber makes a run for it.I don't know if he's going to get some other weapon.I don't know.But Amber takes this opportunity and she runs.
She says she army crawled out into the rain and then took off running.
Now, Amber is covered in blood.She has a ton of injuries and defense wounds.Yes. The leasing office of her condo is right there, so she goes right there for help.They call the police.
The police get there in the time that Amber has escaped, gone to the condo office, called the cops for help, and the cops arriving.
And at this point, Ben cleaned everything up.He cut his own face, told the police that I cut his face and that I instigated the incident.That's when they came back to the leasing office and they put me in handcuffs. They arrest her.
She goes, that's when they came back to the leasing office and put me in handcuffs.I said, I'm sorry.
What?Here's the thing that like, and Amber is like explaining this plain as day.It's not that she's not explaining it well.It's that my brain can't make it make sense.These cops refuse to even look into this guy.
I mean, he's been to prison in Vegas.
broke into her home, Amber's covered in blood, her pinky is almost completely severed off, she has defensive wounds all over her, and Amber says, the cops never listened to me, they never wanted to listen, put her in handcuffs, shoved her in the back of a cop car, and took her to jail.
I mean, it's unconscionable.And to be this woman who's just been so violently attacked, trying to explain, just look the guy up, get on the police book and put his name in, you'll see that he went to prison for beating me up the first time.
She was stalked.She was attacked.She got away.She asked for help.Then she spends 18 hours in jail.Like, did they give her medical attention?They certainly didn't look this guy's name up in the police Google.Did they go?
Did they tend to her finger in any way?Ask her if she's OK.Give her a fucking cup of water.
She says that, like, thank God for this hero judge who, quote, did a little bit of digging and saw Ben's previous charges and dismissed the charges against her.
But no charges against Ben.
But no charges against Ben.
And also, like, I just don't understand how you can see someone in Amber's condition and not listen to her.And I just think it needs to be said, like, Amber is black, and I'm wondering if it's that blatant that that's how racist they are.
I mean, but they don't listen to any woman in this documentary either.
Yeah, I mean, maybe they just, like, legitimately don't care.
I'm not discounting the racism, I'm sorry.
I didn't mean that to sound flippant.
Like, they don't listen to any women here, but hearing Amber's story, it's just like, I'm sorry, so the white guy in the room doesn't even get any charts.Like, what the fuck?
And it's not like it's the first time that she would have to convince them that he's the kind of guy that would do this.Like, there's evidence right there in their own database.
And while you're at it, did he do that community service?I promise you he didn't.Totally.
So, OK, the charges were dropped against her, but nothing was pressed against her.I don't understand.
And not only that, she gets home to discover... He had stolen all of my belongings. I have no clothes, absolutely no clothes, not even underwear.
All of my personal things, like my birth certificate, my social security card, he literally took everything.
Left her with nothing.Like cannot stress it enough, left her with nothing.So like, see what happens when you try to leave me or now you're beaten to shit.No one believes you and you have to start over.
Like this is what he's doing.
Girl, Pretty Litter is back, we need a Macaroni update.
Look, Macaroni is thriving.Macaroni is loving his little life, and a major part of that is Pretty Litter.
So, fam who doesn't know, Macaroni is Jillian's best friend Ashley's new kitty, and I'm telling you, we are enriching the kitty's life with Pretty Litter, because Pretty Litter, A, the most important thing, has the health indicator, so if Macaroni's not feeling great, and goes and uses the litter box, and there's something wrong, the crystals will change color, and then Ashley will need to know that she needs to take him to the vet.
Yeah, because they can't tell you about like a urinary tract infection or a kidney issue or something like that.So the Pretty Litter is doing it.Also, here's the thing.
It's great going over to Ashley's house because Pretty Litter's non-clumping formula traps odor and moisture.So when you go in, you don't know she has a cat until Macaroni is being his adorable self.It's amazing.
I'm telling you, that cat box odor is the worst part of having a cat.Exactly.Not a thing with Pretty Litter.
No way, Pretty Litter is ultra-absorbent, it's lightweight, it's low-dust, and one six-pound bag works for up to a month.
And they send it to your house.Once again, you don't have to go to the grocery store and carry that insanely heavy thing back from the grocery store and up the stairs, you know what I mean?Yeah.They send it right to your door.
You never run out of it.You don't have to lug those Kitty Litter bags all over town up to your house.No.And also, the big Kitty Litter tub isn't sitting in your house or apartment, taking up space and being an eye sore.
Exactly. Fam, Pretty Litter is amazing.You gotta try it.Go to prettylitter.com slash TCO to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy.Yes.
Love it.That's prettylitter.com slash TCO to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy.
Prettylitter.com slash TCO.Tell them the rules.
Terms and conditions apply.Seaside for details. So, now it's September 2017.Okay.We meet Jamie.
But who do we really meet?
We meet her dog, Maya.Okay.As described by Jamie, she's a little shih tzu with a cute, sassy personality.
Jamie, you know how people say that dogs are sometimes like a reflection of their human?
Jamie, please take this as a compliment.It is.You and Maya are twins. You're the spitting image of each other.Because when she's like, she's a little, she's a shih tzu with a cute little sassy personality.I'm like, Jamie, you are Maya, both of you.
Like, Maya's in a cute outfit.Jamie's in a cute outfit.
Maya's got the pink little hair.
Like, they are like, Jamie, that's a compliment.
You two are the spitting image of each other.You are twins.I can't tell you apart.Jamie loves the compliment.She's very, she loves it.
loves it.So now Jamie was in a relationship with Ben.
Kind of.I mean, like, I mean, yeah, like, like they were friends and he, like, loved her dog and they spent time together.
And he was like, he was super kind to Maya, the dog really, really took care of her.Like, Jamie really stresses that a lot.And you know what?
We should say that because she's with Jamie.
I was very afraid that he was going to do something horrible to the dog at some point.Yeah.
So Jamie and Ben met doing Krav Maga, which is like super fucking badass.You, what the hell is that?It's a, it's a, I mean, Jamie describes it as this combative mixed martial arts.
She's like, it's not like Kung Fu.It's much more violent.
It's not about so much the discipline.Like karate is a very much like the discipline and you go through the belts and you, you know, it's part of that.
Krav Maga is more, like Jamie says, it's just a little bit more about like winning the fucking fight.Like combat.A little bit.
Because I did Muay Thai for a while.
So, anyway.So, Jamie says that's how they met.So, again, like, I'm guessing that Jamie and Ben are in the Krav Maga class for two very different reasons.
Jamie's there to defend herself from men like Ben, and Ben is there to... Learn how to beat people up.
You know what I mean?So, not all men.I'm just saying whatever the fuck.So, like, I don't want to hear from someone's fucking boyfriend.
I know.I know.Give me a break.I know. We're all in the shower with them.The boyfriends can vaguely hear us.You know what I mean?
Every time I go out and I meet the listeners, the boyfriends are always like, oh, you're the voice I hear in the shower every morning.
Good reminder.If it doesn't apply to you, leave it alone.And I'm talking to you.Remember the tugboat captain?If you're a tugboat captain, good for you.But if you're this particular one, I don't like you.Exactly.Correct.So if you're Ben, I hate you.
If you do Krav Maga, good for you.Also, if we're in the shower with you, good morning.Good morning.Or at night.I love a nighttime shower.
Is it an everything shower, Curly?
Is it a steam shower?It's the routine.Love a good everything shower.It's exhausting, however.
What's an everything shower?
It's exactly what you think it is.
You're doing everything.You're doing the hair.
You're doing... Shaving the legs.
Shaving whatever you need to shave.It's like everything.It's your whole day.Face mask if you do it, then you get the oil after.It's a whole thing.
I have it so easy.I get in, I soap up, I wash my hair, I get out.
Yeah, you're not even going through the drying of the hair.I know.After the everything shower.
I sometimes don't even make it all the way through one Taylor song in the shower.That's insane.One song.They're not even that long.That's insane.I know. Then fast forward to 300 takeout coffees later.Oh my God.Do you know the reference to that?No.
You don't know the blue dress on the boat?Uh-uh.Okay.
We all know you're the real cookie.
So Jamie says, like, look, Ben was, you know, fine enough.He came from a good family, she thought.Did he?That's what she, you know.
We're gonna hear his parents for like 20 seconds at one point in this thing.I have got some questions for them.
Someone calls them helpful, and I'm like, well, they're not not helpful.I don't know.
Like, he's an incredible,
Incredibly violent person.
Yeah, he's also a liar.So everything he told her is bullshit.
That's true, right?Yes Yeah, but she says like, you know, he was planning to get into law enforcement.He wasn't into drugs.He didn't really drink I don't care.Yeah, but they were like
kind of together, but it wasn't that serious.And Jamie says to us, like, he'll never admit it, but I knew he was seeing other people.But Jamie's like, girl, same.Like, she wasn't trying to be exclusive.
No, she was like, sometimes I'd see him a couple times a week.Sometimes I wouldn't.
Yeah.And she says.But when he did come by, Ben didn't always seem present.He's there physically, but you don't really know what he's thinking about.And I felt like he spent a lot of time thinking of his exes.Turned out he was.
usually thinking about his exes.Now, Amber, who we just left, confirms this, because while Ben and Jamie are having their situationship or casual whatever, Ben is texting Amber.
Yeah, and she says, she gets like a novel of a text from him.
She goes, I got a text from Ben, it's a novel.
I've changed, I'm in therapy, blah, blah, blah.
He wanted to have a face-to-face conversation for closure.I was like, are you gonna bring her birth certificate back with you, bitch?Just bring the social security card when you meet her for dinner.How about that, girl?
Now, so Amber agrees to meet and she smartly does it at a restaurant, a public place.And Ben apologizes.You know, Amber is the love of his life.And it's like, I mean, like you should fucking be so lucky to get a five minute conversation with Amber.
She's awesome.And she just says like, she's got empathy.She feels bad for him.She wanted to be there for him as a friend.And they start like texting and hanging out again.
Yeah, and she says on a regular basis.And she says, like, look, I felt bad for him.It was like Stockholm syndrome.This happens all the time.Like, I get it.He's good at this.He's a good manipulator.She felt he was sorry.
And of course, like, she spent two years with him.And maybe it's like denial.
Maybe you don't want to be a person who was beaten by your boyfriend.It's a trauma response.
It's a kind of trauma response.So I'm not like begrudging.You know, Amber's awesome.
We're sitting over here wishing she hadn't done it, but we totally understand why.Right.
And hearing her explain it, she's like, yeah, I did it.We started texting.Like, what do you want?So Amber and Ben, they start texting.They're hanging out again.Amber says, like, on a regular basis.
So it's Christmas Eve 2017.They are together on Christmas Eve.
But they're just friends is my understanding.Sure.
They're just like spending, I don't know where their families are.
They're hanging out.She says that she like leaves her cell phone on the coffee table to go to change and she comes back out and doesn't see Ben.
Ben is about to prove that absolutely nothing has changed.She leaves her phone unattended for 2.5 seconds.I mean, this is why he was trying to get into her good graces again.
So Amber's out of the room.Her phone rings in front of Ben.
And when I come back, I don't see Ben on the couch. Ben comes from around the corner in my kitchen and starts strangling me.He takes me down to the couch and strangles me until I'm unconscious.
He strangles her until she's unconscious.
She wakes up and he just leaves her there.
She wakes up, thank God, to this guy violently destroying her place.
She's like punching the walls.
Again, like, if he can't live in the place with her, then it has to be destroyed.
So yelling into the void, pacing, seething, like not a human being at all.So Amber, though, once again, sees her chance to leave and she takes it.She runs out of her own back door, jumps off the first floor balcony.
She flags down the first car she sees.Thank God it's a woman with a dog.
They will save us all.They will save us all.
She said that woman let me in.Amber had no shoes on.Amber says she was so helpful.She was so amazing.And she 1000% saved my life.And I'm like, Oh, my God.
I know.So Amber, we hear the 911 call.
Amber is in this woman's car.And she's like, Hi, and she's as cool as a cucumber.Like she's just saying every because she's been through this before.She's hoping that this time the cops get it right.And the cops
kind of do like they come to her, they take her back to the apartment.One of the cops says to her, you can never see this person again.He almost took you away from your family the day before Christmas.You can never see him again.
The officer says there is no apology that is worth your life.You have to run. Because Amber says, my ex attacked me, I'm in a stranger's car, I have no shoes on, and this isn't the first time.Ben goes to jail again.The state presses charges.
Now, there was supposed to be a trial, but everyone just sort of forgot to show up to work for the last six months.
No urgency.No one gave a shit.The piece of shit is out in the world.Amber is living in fear.Imagine the toll that that takes.This has been years of her life being in fear of this person.
And she describes like she's constantly looking over her shoulder. could pop out of the closet at any fucking moment.
Like, it's really... He doesn't care.It's unbelievable.Like, it's crazy.Now, September 2018, we're back to Jamie and Maya the dog.
They've known Ben for like a year and a half, right?Like, as they're hanging out, everything with Amber is going on simultaneously.
Because now we're going to hear what's going on from Jamie's perspective.
Based on, like, the lies that Ben told her, I guess. So they've known each other for a year and a half.Ben lost his job.He lost the apartment.And Jamie and Maya let this guy move in with them.
Like he couldn't pay his rent.He couldn't pay his bills.And my thing is, did they let him or did he just show up and not leave?
Well, Jamie was like, Maya and I talked about it. Which is, like, a thing that happens.But Jamie says, he needed help and I helped him.He's good at the sob story.And these are nice women.Like, they're good people.
And she probably didn't imagine she was gonna be helping him forever.You know what I mean?It's like, any normal person would come and, like, lick their wounds, get a job, and move back out.
And she's only seen the guy who's like really struggling, kind of adrift.Like, she hasn't seen the violence yet.She wants to help this guy.
Well, and she says, like, it was a really hard time.He was always sick.He had terrible anxiety.He couldn't get a job because he couldn't get out of bed.
And eventually she's like, girl, like, real talk.
I'll help you, but you have to get your shit together, like, a little bit.
Like, you have to actually try to get on your feet.You can't just loaf around all day.And that's the thing.Like, Maya and I have shit to do.
I would question him about, like, well, what's your plan?Like, what are you going to do? I don't mind helping you out, but I can't carry this forever.One day, I was trying to reason with him. He came up from behind me and slammed me on the ground.
He comes up behind her and just slammed her on the ground.
Yeah.And she says, that was the first time he ever put his hands on me, which to me is like, okay, she's been trying to quote reason with him for a long time.He's been taking advantage of her and her space.And she's finally like, you have to try.
What are you doing here?Like you can't just live here and not contribute or pay rent.Like if you want to get on your feet, then fucking do it.
Be a fucking oaf that's lying in the bed all day.Cause you can't get out of bed.He came in and took over her apartment.
Yeah, I'm like, thank you for being nice to my dog and taking out Maya when I'm tired or whatever, like, that's great, but that's not enough.
He's a drain on every resource she has.I mean that, like, internally, you know, like, she's just a drain.
And then she says, like, beyond the beating her, he now just gets really weird and paranoid.He's convinced people are following him, trying to get him.
What Jamie says is that Ben just continues to attack her.And Jamie says she doesn't know what to do.This is her apartment, but she's embarrassed to tell her friends that she sort of, in her mind, allowed this to happen.
That to me, that really took my breath away.She said, I didn't tell my friends because I didn't want them to know I was one of those girls who was with a guy who was beating me.
Can we just say, we've said this in so many episodes, if you are a person who is suffering domestic violence, tell anybody. Your friends are not gonna judge you.Your friends are gonna help you.Your boss is gonna help you.People are going to help you.
And we're gonna give resources at the end of this episode.And we as people, as friends of people, it's like the Lacey Peterson of it all.Even if we don't know, check in with your friends.
Because people's relationships are private and they don't always tell you the bad things.So we need to be better friends and check in with people and we need to make it clear to everybody in our lives that you can tell me anything.
100%, don't be afraid.I understand the fear, but don't, no one, I can't imagine a scenario where someone texts me that and I go to judgment.No, I say, girl, where are you?
What do you need?Where are you?
I've said that to like younger cousins in my family.I've said that to, you know, people where it's like, I don't care where you are.If you don't like, especially if you don't live in Manhattan, if you're just like coming in or whatever.
Like if it's gotta be me, send me a DM.I will send you all the resources I can think of.
It's like, it's just, it's scary out there.Like reach out to people.I promise you, I promise you, your friends will be there for you.
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See you never again.Bye. So now Jamie files a restraining order against this guy, and she meets the cops on the corner down the street from her condo, and they're about to serve him with papers.And here's the following exchange that happens.
Jamie says, What happens if he doesn't answer the door?They said nothing. Well, that's my, that's my place.He moved his belongings to my place and I need to get into my place to get some things so I can get myself together for work.
So can you at least escort me into my place so I can get my belongings that I need so I don't get beaten up?No, we don't do that.
I need to get ready for work.So if he's not there, I'm kind of scared he might be there.
Or if he is there and doesn't answer the door?
Yeah, like, can you just at least make sure it's safe for me to get ready for work so that I can, you know, afford to live?
And the cops go, oh, no, no, no, we don't do that.You're on your own.
Yeah.Yeah. To which I said, here's my question.Why did you become a cop?Why did you become a cop?
It's supposed to be to protect and serve.And then I'm like, oh, no, no, no.I know why you chose to become a fucking cop if you're not going to do anything.It's the power trip and the whatever.
So what happens is the cops go to serve this guy, the restraining order.This guy, as predicted by Jamie, doesn't answer the door.
He's home, but he doesn't answer the door.
The cops leave the papers on the door, which is also a fucking target on Jamie's back.And then they leave.Now, like, we need to burn it all down and start over.
Because my question is, Isn't everything he did to Amber on the record?Like, if you are like, I want a restraining order against this guy.Can you just go to, like, police, Google him?
Especially because it's the same state.It's not like it's not it's not another even city.It's this it's like a block away.
Right.So, like, can't you see he's attacking other women?
And you just don't care.Like a woman is standing in front of you saying, I feel unsafe and asking you for help.And you, as a police officer, look at her and say no and walk away.
We can't even, like, walk you into your apartment to make sure you're safe to get your clothes for work?
Like, why aren't you just doing it?I know.Protect and serve, no?Why aren't you doing it?
Then what is the real reason you're a cop?Say it out loud.
If you're gonna look at Jamie in her eyes and say, too bad you're on your own, we left that— Do you know how inflammatory a piece of paper of a restraining order is?Oh my God, of course.And Jamie's telling you, I feel unsafe.
Can you please just hang out for five minutes?It would have been safer— He said no!
I know.I know. I know.And so Jamie says she sits outside her apartment for hours, terrified, not knowing what to do.But then she says, I had nowhere else to go.Yeah.So she goes inside.
She quietly sneaks into her own apartment.
I know.Lays down on the bed, falls asleep.
When I woke up, he was sitting on top of me.He had one hand holding both my arms behind my back.And he started shaving my head with the clippers.Shaved my head bald. And he said, no man will ever look at you or think you're pretty.
No man is ever going to look at you or think you're pretty.So he's trying to take a lot away from Jamie in this moment, but also so like, if he can't have her, nobody can.
Right.And she said, the only thing I could do if I didn't want to get my face smashed was to sit there and be quiet.
She makes the decision in the moment because she's like, I can't reason with him.
Half of my head is shaved anyway, she says.She goes, the best thing I could possibly do is just be quiet.And now after that, and you're like, this is what we mean when it's like we do what we can to survive.
That's why I'm not, no, I'm not gonna confront the guy on the fucking subway.I'd like to go home.I'd like to survive.I'd like to make it to work today, or whatever.
Like, there's a reason I'm not, you know, you stay, there are so many times where you're just like, just fucking be cool.Like, in Jurassic Park, there are T-Rex, like, if you don't move, they can't see you.
That's a lot of the feeling of like, just keep your mouth shut and be quiet.But after that, Jamie's alive, but she's now become this guy's hostage.This guy's hostage for weeks.She can't leave the house.
And she's naked.She says that he takes her phone, he takes her clothes so she can't have anything on her and she can't get away.
She's naked so she can't hide anything.
Right.And she says when she slept, she was either tied up or he'd sit behind her with a gun to her head.
And this goes on for weeks.And my question is, is nobody looking for her?Does she not have a job that she didn't show up to?Like, where are her people?
Yeah, where are her people?I don't know.
And that makes me sad for her.Maybe she doesn't have any and that is really fucking sad.
Well, he's texting as her.He has her phone.
So you get a text like, Jamie, girl, where are you?Yeah.And then it's, oh, you know, I skipped town or oh, I this or oh, my mom is sick.I went back to Minnesota.I don't know.
She says three to five days in, he said, I'm going to kill you. And I knew he was.I could see it in his eye that he was going to kill me.
Said he was going to kill her.And she says, and I knew he would.I could see it in his eyes.
So now Jamie is absolutely terrified.
It's September 24th, 2019.She's been in captivity for eight days.
Like hasn't left the house, hasn't had clothes on for eight days.
Things are escalating.The violence is continuing.
She says, I would ask him, why are you doing this?I've been taking care of you for the last year.I've been feeding you.I've just been letting you live in my fucking house.Why are you doing this to me?And then he would say to her, I have to.
And then in other moments of clarity, he would say to her, like almost remorsefully, I should go to jail for the rest of my life for what I've done to you.
Yeah, they're going to put me away for what I'm doing to you.And she's like, okay. So it's October 2nd, 2019.She's been in captivity for 16 days.There's no food.
Just the word captivity makes my skin crawl.
I know, it's disgusting.So there's no food.Jamie's credit cards are maxed out.They need to get to the store to get food for everyone, including Maya.
Including the dog.Which is, I think, the only reason he let them leave.Because he says, she tells him there's no food for the dog, and he's like, let's go to the store.
Right.And also, like, this is another thing that abusers do, too.They'll be super nice to everyone but you.
So, like, he was probably incredibly nice to Maya.Yeah.One, we know that he liked Maya for whatever reason, but, like, think of Jamie naked and bound.
And it's like, well, at least he's being nice to the dog.
Like, he would, like, sometimes abusers do that to throw it in your face.Like, he'll be super nice to the drive-through person.
But then be screaming at you on the ride home.
So, like, I think he was also using Maya as a tactic and, like, as a weapon against Jamie.So, Jamie's like, all right, this is my chance.
Yeah, like, getting out of that apartment in a car, going to a public place, like, this could be her only chance to escape.
So, they pull into the parking lot, and Ben takes Maya to go to the bathroom.
I unbuckled my seatbelt, and I jumped out of the car really quick.And I ran. I didn't have my phone.I didn't have any money.So I run inside the store, and I'm frantic.And I see someone who works there, and I explain the situation.
I said, do you have an office or a room or somewhere I can lock myself into because I need to hide?She said, no, there's no, we don't have any offices here.
And they don't have an office for her to hide in, but they do have a back door, so she runs out of that.
Yeah, and this is where I'm so worried for the dog.I know, I know.I'm like, what's going to happen to the dog?But nothing, the dog is fine.The dog is fine.
Maya is with Jamie during this interview.
So she finds another Good Samaritan in a car, and he's like, are you okay?Do you need to go to the hospital?
What's going on?I mean, she must have looked, we see her in a minute in the hospital on the body cam footage.She looked, you know, this woman with black eyes and a shaved head.
And it's also surreal, like the look she has on her face, I'm not saying it's a joke, like she probably never thought she'd be outside again.Like because when he says to her, do you need to go to the hospital?
She's like, oh yeah, I guess the hospital would be a good idea.Like she's so traumatized.She doesn't even know what kind of help she's asking for.She's just like, kind of can't believe.
It's not happening.And it's like, and then like to compound that we hear the 911 call from the nurse reporting Jamie's like what has happened to her and like this woman that she's found in her care.
And the woman is saying, the nurse is saying she won't tell me who did this to her.Like she's being treated for broken ribs, two black eyes, bruises all over her body.She said she had cauliflower ears.I don't even know what that is.
It happens when you've been hit in the ear and it hasn't been properly treated.So a lot of fighters. Like, any kind of professional fighter or, you know, someone who's been beaten and doesn't have the proper care, like, that's what happens.
That's what that is.And she said she, like, had damage to her eyes?Yeah.But the thing is, like, we see the body cam footage of the cops saying to her, we're going to help you, but you need to tell us who did this to you.
We're not the same officers who showed up to him before.
But of course she doesn't trust them.She's like, you're going to hold him for a day or two and he's going to get out and he's going to kill me.
allowed her to walk into a kidnapping situation, because remember, that's why we're here.The restraining order is what triggered him, and she never left the house again until now, so no, she's not trusting you.
No, and this is why people don't trust the cops.This is why people don't report the things that happen to them.
It's like those pieces of shit that brought that kid back to Jeffrey Dahmer.
Like, that's what it feels like.You just sent her into the lion's den.
I mean, and that's the thing.Like, how different this would have been if the cop had just walked her in for five minutes so she could get her clothes for work.
You know what I mean?Like maybe Ben would have done something in the moment where you're like, oh, I have to do my job now.Right.You know, or just something to make her feel safe.
Or even in the moment, give her like a mental health professional to sit with her and be the liaison between her and the police.The cops are just yelling at her.
Yeah.So of course she is not trusting them at all.But eventually, like the SWAT team shows up to Jamie's house.
They have a search warrant and an arrest warrant for the guy.
It's wild.Like, somehow they get his... They have to bomb him out of the house!
Which is just wild.They had already bombed the place.All the windows were blown out with tear gas.The front door was on the ground, on the front lawn. Ben came out holding Maya.
One of the officers took her from him and brought her to me, and then they put him in the car.
So they've arrested him on six different counts.
Kidnapping, resulting in substantial bodily harm, coercion with force, assault, assault, battery, battery, like strangulation.I mean, this guy, like use of a deadly weapon, just horrifying.
We come back to Amber and Amber sees Ben's face on the news.This mugshot is insane.He looks so unwell.He hasn't showered in Lord knows how long.He's got that long hair but he hasn't brushed it.He can't leave Jamie alone.
I would be terrified to look at him.
Now, this also just made me incensed.Jamie doesn't want to speak at trial.She should not have to.There is a ton of evidence against Ben.Videos of Jamie, photos of Jamie, her statement, also what happened to Amber.She shouldn't have to.
But this guy, Steve Wolfson, the DA, cuts a deal with a piece of shit and then blames it on Jamie.He says, if we don't have a willing victim that wants to come to court, we have to do what we can to salvage a conviction.
And he looks at the camera and she did not want to come to court.
She shouldn't have had to.
How is that the system?How is that the system?
And to say it with no, which is like, well, like those are the breaks, like you're on your own kid, like, oh my God.
And just to hear what Jamie is saying, she's like, I can't put myself in a room with him again.Like nobody can understand the trauma of being somebody's hostage for three weeks and then like having to go and sit and face them in court.Right.
After nobody helped her? Why are we asking this of victims?How is it okay to ask her to do that?
Yeah, and Steve Wolfson, DA, you're pretty fucking bad at your job.
If you need her to get you had plenty.I could make this case right now.
How about the video of you having to fucking bomb him out of the apartment?
Is that not enough?Can you just police Google him?Because Amber's story will come right up. Because they do, actually, because the Clark County District Attorney combined the cases of Amber from 2017 and Jamie from 2019.
But he ends up pleading to a lesser domestic violence charge in both cases.This fucking guy gets a maximum.He held her prisoner for three weeks.
He tried to kill Amber twice and tried to kill Jamie in captivity for 16 days.
He gets a maximum of 30 months but gets credit for the two years he's already served. It's insane.He's released from custody in October 2021, 24 months after assaulting Jamie.Yeah.
So I'm like, okay, all of this happened in Vegas.How did this evil piece of shit get to Oregon?Because Oregon is where we started.
So now we're back at the beginning and Justine is our victim and Angie's the friend trying to save her life.
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ShipStation automates all of it, takes care of all of the hard stuff for you, and that is why Steve loves it.
Yeah, and it's all about those automations, right?So, like, the automations allow you to smoothly print, like, shipping labels or whatever, and it's so easy.And when those things become easier, you're building your business faster.
Correct.It's also the fastest and most affordable way to ship products to your customers.Fam, we're talking discounts up to 89% off UPS, DHL Express, and USPS rates.You know Steve Tipton would not be doing this if there was not some sort of discount.
I know, that looks, I mean, it's crazy.
and you can seamlessly integrate with services and selling channels that you already use.So it's not like you have to change your whole routine already.You can manage orders in one easy dashboard.
So look, we are just one of over 130,000 companies that have grown their e-commerce business with ShipStation, and 98% of companies that stick with ShipStation for a year become customers for life, like us.
I think we've been with them for seven years now.
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That's ShipStation.com.The code is TCO.
Yeah, tell them Steve Tipton sent you right after you gave me a lecture.
Right, of course.Lecture first, action later.
We see the body cam footage of them in the ambulance after they've loaded Justine in.We overhear them saying they're going to intubate her.She's so far gone, they're going to intubate this woman.There was a noose around her neck.Yeah.
So Jamie, our victim, is in the hospital in a coma.The piece of shit is on the run.Everyone's looking for him.
There's a manhunt for him, and everyone in town is terrified.There's like a killer on the loose.
Like Angie's looking for him, Justine's friends, the cops, the U.S.Marshals, everybody.
So it's January 25th, 2023, one day on the run.We hear the police, like the body cam interview footage with Ben's parents.
Yeah, so it turns out Ben grew up in this area in Oregon, and the police are speaking to his parents, who they claim are very, very helpful.
They're just very calm.And they're just saying, like, he came in the night before, grabbed a whole bunch of clothes, took off.The cops, they ask him, how about that new girlfriend, Justina?Does this mean you're moving in with her?
And the cop is like, uh... I'm not going to get into great detail, but Justina's in the hospital, and she is in really, really, really bad shape.
Oh, my God.Well, that fits what happened in Vegas.
Well, this is just like what happened in Vegas.Maybe he went to Vegas.I'm sorry, what?
Like, do they know about the monster that they raised?
If you say seven reallys, really, really, really bad shape, and your response is that's just like Vegas.
Just like what he did to that girl in Vegas.
No, so he didn't lie and be like, Oh, Amber's crazy.
You know, I had a bad breakup.No, no.If you're saying, I mean, they must know we had a record, obviously.
I mean, it's just, it's crazy.Like, I will, like, I always say there's nothing that Daisy could ever do to make me not love her, but there are definitely things that she could make me do to make me not fucking talk to her again.Same.
You know what I mean?Like beating people nearly to death.
Like over and over again and getting away with it.Like, oh my God.
Yes. So it turns out- Let me amend that.I will come and visit her once she is safely behind bars.But I am not doing anything to harbor a fucking killer.I should hope not.Okay.
So it turns out Ben is in some desolate area in the woods.He's at the house of Tina Jones.And here's where I'm like, oh my God, all the dogs turned on Ben.Because the police have dogs.The dogs alerted on the house.
And then Tina's dogs are also barking.They're barking back to the police.They're like, this son of a bitch. Tell the humans, we got him.The dogs turned on Ben.
That's funny because I kind of took it the other way.I thought the dogs were being kind of dicks because Tina's dogs, what happens is like the US marshals.
The dogs are being perfect in every way.
Well, I know, okay, I strike it from the record, but the US marshals are hiding in the woods doing surveillance and Tina's dogs are barking at them, like kind of letting Ben know that there's people out there to get him.
The dogs are talking to each other.
I think they're like, wait.He's in here!He's in here!
We got him!At first, they're probably like, this is a weird scent on our property.Who the fuck?Oh, it's you.
Girl, no.Tell your people that he's here.We don't know.
This is another point, too, where the cops start really leaning into the cop speak.Ben begins doing counter surveillance.He climbed up on the roof of Tina's house with a set of binoculars.
Then he came down and started doing ground property checks and ultimately spots one of the surveillance guys that are in the bushes and then takes off running. So he does, quote, counter surveillance.
He's sitting on Tina's roof with binoculars.
Right.He then does a, quote, property checks.What does that mean?
Exactly.He sees one of the surveillance guys in the bushes and he takes off.
Yeah, he runs again.The cops lose him.He's in the wind.Great job, everybody.
To which I'm literally like, how sophisticated was this mission?Yeah.You know what I mean?It doesn't seem like you guys are hiding in the bushes.
You guys want to arrest Amber again while you're at it?Or like, how many fuck ups are we doing today?
And these are the Oregon cops, so honestly, the fuckery knows no bounds today.Also, who the fuck is Tina?
No, I know.Who is Tina?I know.We see Tina.We learn that Tina's like a church friend of the family.
Right.So she was helping him, but she's like, I don't know why, Tina.Yes, he did.He had a go bag ready.He had all this cash.
Which he didn't have on him when he go'd.You know what I mean?Yes, when he go'd.
He go'd without the bag.And he's like, mm.So the go bag, because he was doing counter surveillance, which is sitting on the roof of binoculars. Yeah, they're never that smart.
No.Do you know what I mean?Never.
Take your go bag with you.Exactly.
If you're going to be on, like, it's a little bag.Have it on you at all times.
Well, I don't know how little it is because he has tons of cash in it.Lots of phones that are all wrapped in tinfoil.A laptop that's wrapped in tinfoil.And it's a way to block the signal.
Do you think we should get Jamie Peterson to explain it all the way?
Look, yeah, I'm like, what about those pesos?
Jamie, tell us what you think, girl.
Or the map to Amber Fry's place of business.
Or like any, just a ton of shit to live on the run for an extended period of time.
Also the orange hair, I don't know.
Okay, was it the pool?Was it the chlorine?Right.Was he hiding from the press?Also, he didn't have golf clubs when he was going golfing.Okay.Whatever. So he's super paranoid, right?
Because he has all of these phones and these laptops, but they're all covered in foil to hide the signal.Does that work?The cop seems to think it might.I don't know.
Oh, really?I don't know.I've never done it.We'll probably never need to.Here's something we never need to know.
I write my phone and it'll explode.Like, is my phone a microwave?
I don't understand.Totally.
But one of the phones shows he was on the dating apps.So either he was trying to use women to get away, or he was like luring and targeting women to abuse.
Yeah, that is terrifying.So he's like on the lam and Jamie, remember Jamie was the one that was the prisoner for three weeks?Yeah.She gets a call from Ben's brother alerting her that Ben is on the run.
He was crying and he said, I'm sorry that I never believed anything you said.And he told me. I didn't want to believe any of it was true.
But I know that you weren't lying now because he just did it to somebody else.I do not accept your apology.
I don't accept it either.
No.But Amber and Jamie, who both live in Vegas, are now terrified.Like, our friends Amber and Jamie are scared that this piece of shit is running to get them again.
Of course.I mean, how would you not live every day of your life?Because now he's got nothing to lose, right?
There's a manhunt.So, I mean, I don't know.I don't trust this guy.So, he's on the run for six days.Now the cops talk to Tina, who's in custody.
And he shows up to her house, like a teenager, and he's like, I got in a fight with my parents, can I please stay?And she's like, you know what, we all go to the same church, absolutely.
Right, and she said she didn't know he was on the run from law enforcement.The most important thing to know here is that while Tina's in prison, she's got a guy named Richard Barron taking care of her dogs.
The cops call and check in with him, he's like, I'm happy to take care of the dogs, and the cops are like, if you see something, say something, give us a call.
Yeah, you see this creep, like, call us.
So the next day, the cops get a tip and a taxi driver called the cops and said, hey, someone named Richard Barron called me for a ride.But the cab driver was like, I know Richard and he's sorry, Richard, but he's like an older guy.
I'm just saying I got in trouble for saying the word elderly once and it stuck with me forever.
I don't know what age you become elderly.
I'm basically elderly.I mean,
I mean, I think the Golden Girls, like, I don't understand.The Golden Girls are supposed to be these elderly women.They're, like, 54 in the episode.
The disservice they did.Like, 54 is the new 20.What are you, out of your mind?God.Anyway, so the cab driver knew that Richard was an older man, and he's like, the caller did not sound like Richard.He sounded like a young guy.
And he knew, the cab driver knew about the manhunt, so he's like, this is probably your guy.Get up here.
This is really weird, and, like, what's going on with Richard?
Hero cab driver, you know what I mean?Like, he didn't have to do any of this.Good for you, sir.
And like, let's just say nothing came of it.What's the harm of making that phone call?He didn't go to 100.He was like, this feels weird.My gut is screaming at me.You make a phone call.That's all.That's all it takes.
So the cops go to Richard Barron's house.
Because remember, the cab driver was like, that's not Richard.You should also probably do a welfare check on Richard, make sure he's OK.
So the cops go to Richard Barron's house.
They found Richard deceased.And then they also found his caretaker, Ronald Griffith. They were both deceased in the living room.
We suspect that Ben had broken in and held them hostage while he was there hiding.
They had both violently been beaten.
So, like, the police theorized that Ben had broken in, held them hostage for a couple of days, and then killed them to, like, steal his ID or whatever.
Right.So, they track Ben down at Justine's house.Justine is our victim from the beginning, right?
So, they track Ben down at her house because yet another cab company was used.So, between, like, the cab company and surveillance, like, they track him down.
And this guy is holding a little white dog.So they're trying to get the piece of shit out of the house.
So like, no, we should say a SWAT team shows up at Justine's house.There's fucking tanks.They have tanks.There's like all of these police, they're like on the bullhorns being like, Ben, come out, the devil.Like they know he's in there.
And they're doing this as they're waiting for the search warrant to come in.
Just killing time.And they finally get the search warrant and they go into the house.
Now Ben is not in the house.
And we're seeing the body cam footage.They are truly mystified because they basically saw him go in.So they're like, where the fuck is this guy?
The dogs are like, hold our water bowl.They literally sniff him out because Ben is underneath the house.
They sniff him out.So he's surrounded.He has a gun.
And they can see him moving down there like they really know it's him.
Yeah.And as he's surrounded, he has nowhere to go.They hear a gunshot.
And we hear it.They play it for us.
We hear it.And he shoots and kills himself.And Angie, and also all of us, she goes, you know what, good.
I have a lot of people say to me, oh, he took the easy way out and he killed himself.And I'm like, he's right where he belongs.He's burning in hell.
And then... I know.This is great.
I really... Justine is here.
Justine is not a victim.She's a fucking survivor.
And it's a major reveal.Like, she didn't die.She's here.
I did that, like, gasp cry.
Burst into tears.Like, I just, so Justine is here with us to tell her story.
Yes.And she says, the first thing she says, torture is an understatement of what I went through.
So Justine tells her story.She was hanging out with Ben for two months total.Like, this was not a long time.
She describes it as a casual relationship.
They worked together at the bar.
So she's like, yeah, no red flags.Like, he was nothing but nice to me.Again, it's been two months.Like, we're kind of just, like, hooking up.We work together.We're hooking up, whatever.
But one day, Ben shows up to Angie, best friend Angie, who called 911.Yep.Shows up to Angie's house asking for clean urine.And I think that's when Angie met this guy.
And Justine's like, uh, we don't have any here, like, bye.The minute he walks away, she's like, I'm Googling him immediately because, like, you only are asking someone else for clean urine if you were trying to get away with something.
But, like, he wouldn't tell her what the deal was, and she, like, she and Angie are, like, Googing for Jesus.
She Googs him.Like, the cops in Vegas should have done.All of his shit comes up right away.She sees how violent he's been with all of these other people, and she goes to the boss, and she's like, we can't have a guy like this working here.
Absolutely not. So the boss fires Ben.
Yeah.But let's slip that it was Justine that told the boss the information.
And I think he probably put it together.Like, there's no way we could have protected him from knowing Justine.I think it's like, well, he asked Justine for the urine and then suddenly he's fired.
My thing is like, don't you Google every new person you meet?Like I do.
You know what I mean?Especially if they're asking you, can you do me a solid.
I was bartending once and someone was like, can you keep this box in your closet for me?And I was like, absolutely not.
What are you talking about?
This like locked little wooden box.I was like, nope. Get out.Like, absolutely not.Get out.
Are you kidding?Oh, my God.Can you just... And I can't even tell you about this guy, the stories of this guy, please.
But I was like, nobody's like, come on.
Like, I'm the asshole.I was like, 100% no.Oh, my God.A million times no.Never even... Absolutely not.
Don't speak to me ever again.I hated him. Well, so Justina's saying that he found out that it was me, so she had to stop hanging out with him.She says one month later, she gets home.He'd been there waiting for her all day in her garage.
The scene as she describes it.I just remember sitting on my couch and him coming out of my garage and just started beating me.He said, I got him fired.Ben held me captive and basically kidnapped me. It was almost three days.
He just beat me and beat me and beat me and beat me.
She says he beat me and beat me and beat me and beat me.Yeah.She says he beat me so bad that I have a traumatic brain damage.
She has traumatic brain damage because of this.Now, Angie and her mother saved Justine's life, and Justine tells us that directly.
And Justine is like, is describing hearing Angie's voice through the door, like that moment of thinking, oh my God, I'm going to die.And then you hear your best friend's voice of thinking, but then also thinking like, she's so far away.
She's on the other side of the door.That's the farthest anyone's ever been from anyone else again.And I just like, I'm so moved by this.I was like, so when she sat down, I was like, oh my God, she's not a victim.She's a fucking survivor.
And I just want to say, God, law enforcement here fucking suck.Yes.They really like they all did these women such a disservice.Nobody took them seriously.
Nobody like for Jamie to be like, well, can you just like stay for five minutes so I can get ready for work?And they said no.
People died.Amber says like basically the moral of the story here is that if the police had taken Amber's and Jamie's story more seriously, they could have prevented what happened to Justine and they could have saved two lives.
Right.And what did he do?I mean, he didn't start like this.
What other states was he in?
How many people did he hurt?How many women's lives did he destroy in one way or another before we got here?Because you know what I'm saying?Yes, of course.They allowed him to create this path of destruction.
And like you see it over and over again, just like if the Nevada police had just that one time looked up Amber's story when they arrested Amber instead of arresting the guy, you know what I mean?
It's just like there's so many opportunities to do the right thing that get missed.
And the police department and the DA declined to be interviewed. Of course they did.And so it's just like, Justine's amazing, Amber amazing, Jamie, Angie, Angie's mom, Maya the dog, like all of these women are fucking incredible.
And this piece of shit is dead.
And he's dead.So we just want to say here at the end, if you, because they have this little title card at the end. If you or someone you know has experienced domestic abuse, information and resources are available at WantToTalkAboutIt.com.
This is a really comprehensive, good website.This is also on, like, you've seen this on other, like, Netflix shows before.Like, WantToTalkAboutIt is a great place to go.Reach out to your friends.Let people know what's happening.
It's okay if you're too scared to do it.I'm not judging how or when you get to that point.But, like, no one is going to laugh or judge you and say, I told you so.
We just need to keep reiterating in every episode, just like A, check on your friends and B, if you have something to tell, tell.Tell.You know?
Oh my God, girl, we did worst ex ever.Like, oh my God.
Yeah.So we will be sprinkling these up because they're like full length documentaries.
They're very well made.They're just, they're a little hard to watch.
Yeah, they're tough.But again, like story, these stories need to be told.
Fam, once again, if you are on the Patreon or you would like to join the Patreon to be on our Drag Bingo on Wednesday, October 23rd, my costume is on fire.GP's costume is on fire.You can come and costume if you want to.You don't have to.
We've got the amazing Shwa.Drag Bingo is The funnest night of the week.It is so much fun.
Funnest night of the month.It is.It's so much fun.
And if you do join the Patreon, then you get over 450 full ad-free bonus episodes as well.You get ad-free versions of these episodes as well.Yeah.There's a tier, the Herobel tier, where we make episodes just for them.
Like we've been making some old school Unsolved Mysteries episodes just for the Herobel tier.
Like we're talking about like Bigfoot and UFOs, like stuff we don't really cover on the regular feed.
And on the $7 tier at the after party, we've been covering cases we haven't covered on the show.So you're getting like a full GP or PH produced documentary.That's just us telling the story.
What are we doing next, girl?
We are doing Into the Fire, The Lost Daughter.
So this is absolutely incredible.Very, very, very, very beyond highly requested.But it's another two-parter.So we're going to be doing it in two episodes.And we know we just did a two-parter, but you really want us to do it.
And we don't know how else to cover it except doing it this way.
There's just no other way to do it.We were going to do it later on to not bombard you with two-parters, but you all wanted it.So we put it, we moved it up.GP and Natalie worked their magic, moved the calendar around to make it.
So we're going to do that thing where episode one will be on the regular feed, episode two will be on Patreon, and then episode two will be on the regular feed the following week.
Yeah, and the people in my DMs who I've told that, they're like, the sooner the better, we don't give a shit.I know.So, you really want it and it's an excellent documentary, so stay tuned for that.
Yeah, so stay tuned for the trailer for that and we love you.We love you.All right, that's it.
She'd been missing 21 years when they finally found me. I was only 17 years old when I put my daughter up for adoption.Throughout my life, she was always in my mind.When I found out she went missing, I thought, I gotta find this kid alive.
I don't care if I have to walk over God's green earth.Do it.If I couldn't do anything else for her, I was gonna do this.
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