Taking risks and pushing yourself outside your comfort zone.And I'll sum it up, or I'll kind of put it in the saying that a mentor of mine told me a long time ago.If your dreams don't scare you, you're not dreaming big enough.
And I think it is really, as I reflect back on my career from the very first one to every opportunity I've taken within a company, outside the company, or switching,
It's all about pushing yourself when there's something that scares you in the pit of your stomach, right?If that is not there, then you're probably not pushing yourself far enough.
Welcome to Retail Gets Real, where we hear from retail's most fascinating leaders about the industry that impacts everyone, everywhere, every day.
I'm Bill Thorne from the National Retail Federation, and on today's episode, we're talking to Anjana Harvey, the EVP and CIO of BJ's Wholesale Club.We're going to talk to Anjana about her path into retail,
how BJ's is evolving the customer experience, and the technology that she leverages to drive business outcomes.And Janna, welcome to Retail Gets Real.
Thank you so much for having me here, Beau.
We're very excited to hear about all of the things that are happening at BJ's, and especially around technology.I know that we're going to get into AI.
You cannot have a conversation today about technology, innovation, or even retail without bringing those two letters into it, A and I. But let's do a few things before we get to that, because I know people are interested. your career journey.
How in the world did you get to BJ's?I've seen your background, so let others know how you made this journey.
Yeah, thanks for the question, Bill.So I'll take a step back and kind of maybe give you a quick thumbnail sketch of sort of the journey that got me to BJ's and where I am right now.So I started my career, Bill, in computer science engineering.
So that's sort of my background.That's where I began.I was born and brought up in India.And for the first several years at the beginning, I started in consulting.
So I didn't plan my career that way, I would say, but I'm glad I did, because it gave me a fantastic sort of learning ground, a platform to learn about different types of industries.
I got to do a lot of different types of problem solving for clients, taught me a lot and kind of how do you think on your feet, etc.So great learning experience, I think, for somebody who graduated and kind of walked into the workforce.
From there, I found myself moving into the industry from consulting.And I started with the pharmaceutical industry.So that happened to be my first foray into the industry.And I loved it.
Very, very different from consulting and taught me sort of what it takes to not the intellectual side of maybe coming up with an answer, but how you actually make it stick.
What's that sort of the last mile in getting people to really embrace change, even, even though it may be the right thing, how do you actually implement technology?How do you drive transformations, things like that.
So the next several years, I'd say the next chapters of my career, where really I did a lot with the pharmaceutical industry.From there, I sort of went into the adjacencies with medical devices, consumer side of the medical device.
And then most recently to the healthcare space, which sort of brought me very close to the patient, kind of giving care for the patient, figuring out ways to help them in their health, managing their health, if you will.
And suddenly, I'm sure you're wondering, and even for me, it was a complete 180-degree change coming into the retail.And it's been awesome.It's been a lot of fun.
And I think if you ask me, what is it that attracted me to this industry and what I enjoy most, having been here for about a year now, I would say it's the customer centricity.
It's truly, I would say, what I have enjoyed most as I look back on my career.
It was a lot of it was patient centricity and just the nature of the kind of things that I'd done, but kind of figuring out why and where technology can be used for the ultimate purpose of what it is, which is the customer.
thinking about the customer, I know we'll probably dig into it a bit more.But I'm super passionate about it.
And what better way to coming into a company that is truly a member based organization, because everything at BJ's is about, it begins and ends with kind of thinking about your member, and it is a very, very customer focused organization.
And so that made it easy for me to kind of make the decision to go from something completely different and come here.And I'd say the other part that I really enjoyed coming into retail is I get to be a shopper myself, I get to be
walking in the shoes of my customer, which, God forbid, you don't want to be a patient and kind of experience all of that in my previous industry.So, anyway, that hopefully tells you a little bit of the journey.I'm happy to dig in deeper.
It's really interesting because when you said, you know, you were in healthcare and then you come to the retail side of things and particularly in grocery and things of that sort.So, you were helping to get healthy
Now you're working with people that just want a great experience.
And I just, even though it's wonderful to help people that want to get healthy, it's even more fun to work with people that just want a wonderful customer experience and working for a company that wants to give it to them.
I mean, at any point in time you're doing computer science, did retail ever enter your mind?
Not at the beginning, I would say, Bill.I think I just happened to fall in apart from consulting.I did a little bit there, but it was very little.And then I sort of got sucked into the pharmaceutical life sciences industry.
I'd watched it as a customer and it certainly had sort of feedback input and kind of as we all do, right?
You're shopping and you kind of see it, but I hadn't quite thought about it till I heard from BJs and I had the conversation with BJs and that got me super excited. It's fun to be in retail, I will definitely tell you that.
I agree with you.And if you listen to this program, all you hear is about the passion and the fun that people have being a part of this industry.It is interesting to me, I mean, I think about the BJ's member model.
And so you're building a technology, you're building an architecture that while others have their models, normally people just walk in and shop.
You have a BJ's model, which means you buy a membership and then you have the ability to shop at those stores.How do you address the difference between those two?
I mean, does that membership give you a better opportunity to know your customer better?How does that work?
Yeah, great, great question.Absolutely.It does.Because it's a membership-based organization and their whole business model, Bill, is about how do we serve the member, right?
At the end of the day, they're putting their trust and have decided, a conscious decision, to become a member of BJS.
And it's our job to kind of make sure that the experience they get, the value that they get, all of that is maximized because they can choose tomorrow not to do that, right?So we have to earn the right every single day, I would say.
That gives us the focus of saying, how do we become truly that member-centric organization?How do we live, breathe, think about the member or should be thinking about it in all activities that we do?I think that's what we thrive on.
That's our culture of the company, every department, because we all have including technology, obviously, but every single group has a role to play in kind of driving that focus on the member, if you will.
So absolutely, I think it gives us a fantastic opportunity.Now it's a question of do we leverage that?Do we help that leverage the knowledge and the insights that we have to actually help us do a better job for a member, right?
That's kind of really, do we have it?Yes.Do we have a lot of information?Absolutely.But what are we doing to help serve the member is the way I would think about it.
When you think about a BJ's member, who is that?I'm sure there's a persona, maybe a couple of them or several of them, but just at its core, who is a BJ's member?
BJ's members are folks who are really looking for value.That's really what, if you think about what is the promise that we give, what we wake up every day thinking about is about providing that value, and that's what our members are looking for.
That's the cohort of personas of members who are looking for do I get value?And how do I make sure that I can do it conveniently?
We all have busy lives, we've got things to go work on, do it, we've got to manage our financials and kind of take care of it.
So I think it's that's really the consumer who's looking for those elements are the ones that I truly I think are our members who are kind of attracted to PJs and continue to be members of PJs.
You know, I always talk about the fact that retail, there's only one constant in retail and that's change.Things change at the speed of light almost.
I mean, you walk in one day and it's working one way, you walk in the next day, it's working another.And you've got to be flexible and you've got to anticipate, you've got to be accepting of that change.And if you try to resist it, you fail.
If you embrace it and make something out of it, you win. So, you think about all of the technologies that BJ's has adopted in order to make that customer experience a great experience, in order to make BJ's the great retailer that they are.
So, we're going to get into, I'm afraid, the issue of AI. As you look at the technologies, and this is a, I wouldn't even call it anymore an emerging technology.It's there.
And I think what's emerging is all the different ways that we can use it for all these different reasons and purposes.How is BJ's looking at it right now?
Yeah, great, great question.And you're absolutely right.I think AI has been there for a long time.I think we've been leveraging it in all different industries, including retail.I think it's just come to the forefront and it's democratized it.
I think that's really what's happened.Every single person knows about it versus perhaps maybe the technology department knew about it or a few people knew about it and been leveraging it in systems and tools.
So it's not new for us, but certainly aspects of it, certainly the generative AI is relatively new, of course.
So I think you started the question, Bill, on a very good point on kind of how do you keep up with the pace of change, not just in retail, which is changing, but technology, I would say, being in the function and the field that I'm in, it is rapidly changing.
It's even hard for us to keep track of what's happening, right?It's such an evolving sort of environment.I think the way I think about it is, how do you make sure that you are agile in how you're thinking?
Experiment where it makes sense, but you can't just keep flipping around and driving it, right?You still have to stay core to the fundamentals and keeping the business functioning.
But at the same time, we're not going to be the first leading innovator that I'm going to go do it.But we can be fast followers.So we can say, where do we want to double down and be actually that kind of leading edge, but not in everything.
We just kind of, right, we just are going to be so thinly sort of placed if we start to look across everything.So I think for us, it's about mindset.
It's about kind of having the right agility, knowing where to go deep and where to kind of stay and watch.And that's okay.It's actually not a bad thing to watch. what someone else is doing while you're kind of focusing on your core things.
And that's sort of the way we're thinking, but it is rapidly changing.So we are definitely leveraging, have been leveraging it for a while.Predictive models, supply chain, all of these areas have so much of sort of AI is so primed to it.
And then we're also using generative AI and kind of trying to test, learn, do pilots to kind of think about it.
robotics, we're doing a lot in our in our clubs, having Simbi robots that are kind of driving, looking at our inventory, looking at which drive operational efficiency.
So we're definitely doubling down where it makes sense, keeping an eye out and staying ahead of the curve.So it is a fascinating industry time to be in.
And I think it's a question of how do we make sure we keep the right focus in such a time and not get distracted.I think that's maybe the fine balance to think about.
I'm a troglodyte.I'm old.I admit it, and I'm fine with it.I'm learning new things every day that others have said that's been around for a long time, but it's still new to me.
But you've got to bring a whole company along with you as you look at the technologies that you're having to employ to remain relevant. to make it a great customer experience, to continue to build the business.Everybody has to be on board.
How do you get people on board when they really don't understand this whole thing?I mean, how it's going to impact them, their business, and how they do their jobs.
Yeah, absolutely.And Bill, I could almost apply this to kind of over the last I've been in the industry, in the function for such a long time.It is transformations are at the core of that.
So the question that you asked, and I'll try to broaden my answer and how I do it, because we went through digital transformation.We went through an era of internet coming, anything new, which is sort of the masses are learning about it, right?
Large groups of people.So for me, I think I think of a couple of things on how do you drive change and transformations in general. I would say it's about helping people see what the art of the possible is.
It is hard to imagine what it might be if you and that's sometimes the resistance that come through or not even resistance, you just may not be capitalizing on it.Right.
So kind of drawing out the art of the possible and bringing inspirations from other industries, marking things up or kind of just explaining it in a way that you can see the applications, you can see the link and the connecting the dots between what
is possible and what could be done with it.I think that's one method of educating and building awareness in the organization to know what to ask for.
If you don't know what it can do, you're not even going to think about, hey, can I do A, B, and C. That's thinking about some level of basic understanding and leveraging it.
How do we, even if it is in our own daily lives as consumers, or it's just leveraging technology to be able to even gen AI to be able to do things a little bit smarter in what you're doing.
So there's not some fancy things that we can go build for the rest of the company, but just in your own day-to-day job.
And so we've been doing some trainings to get everyone to raise the bar of knowledge and awareness within the organization, which again, spurs other things, right?
And so that's kind of training that we've been running across the organization, offering that to say, how can we help?So you can just do your day job just a little bit better with the tools that are available, right?So that's another part of it.
And I think for me, it's about ideation, bringing together people.So there's more skin in the game when we're all coming together to solve this.Many times, and this is what happens with technologies, over and over again, I've seen this play around.
If some other group goes and builds something, even if it's the right thing and you go try to implement it, I'm used to something, right?It's human nature of resisting change, just not intentionally resisting it. It's happened to me too.
You get a new Microsoft Outlook and try to leverage my mail system, and it looks a little different.For the first few weeks, I'm going to be resisting, even if it's good, right?It feels different.Oh my God, I knew the shortcut here.
I knew all these things, right?So there's a lot of kind of helping people through that more communication, giving them easy ways to consume it, training. And in some cases, hopefully making it that it's not training, that we can just easily use it.
So many, many techniques I think go into, but it's at the heart of it.It's not the technology itself, it's how you use it and people to leverage it, I think is the harder part, I would say.
So given your background, your experience, your expertise, how do you use AI in your personal life?
Great question.Oh, that's a good one.As a consumer itself, I certainly leverage it a lot to kind of whether it's to summarize things and I go do a lot of search, but it's much easier now to be able to leverage it to synthesize and it's an input.
I use it as a give me an answer so I can be more better informed and then I still do my stuff. So a lot of search, I would say, internet search in general, I kind of leverage that.Trying to use it a lot with... You can take pictures now, right?
You can ask it to mock up things.Because many times it would take us lots of times to go and build something and to demonstrate somewhat, right?Like whiteboard everything.I can ask it to create and mock up an idea, an image.
It may not be perfect, but enough for the conversation starters that you have.So things like that.Recipes.What can I do with these kinds of things that I have in my kitchen?So
all experimentation to learn so I can maybe take different aspects of that and have fun both at home with the kids and getting them to start to leverage it.But I've been doing part of it of that.
I was talking to somebody the other day and they said that they were going on vacation with a group and several people in the group literally entered where they were going, when they were going to be there and asked, what should I pack? Yeah.
And it came back with literally a packing list almost based on the weather that's projected for those days.And, you know, it's unbelievable.
I'm heading to Ireland on Saturday, so I'm going to pack Saturday morning because I always wait till the last minute.And yet I'm going to ask, what should I pack?
Yeah, this may make it what has been laborious and painstaking may become very, very easy.I'm really looking for.And again, I just go back to the fact, you know, I'm old, so it takes me a while to think of these things as opportunities.
And I think people are beginning to realize that this is going to be a big part of our lives moving forward.
planning your itinerary, kind of thinking about, so we went on a trip knowing that some museums are closed on certain days, right?So if you tell it, these are the things I want to do and start to help you organize yourself.Like, could we do it?Yes.
Would it take a lot of work and is there huge value in it?No.Take the value away and get that and maybe spend the time on actually sightseeing or doing other things.
So, you know, we've heard a lot in the past, and maybe this is getting so much better that we're not hearing about it as much as we used to, but women in STEM, what have you seen in terms of the representation by women in leadership for these kind of technologically driven jobs?
So I would say, Bill, there's definitely been progress.There's no doubt, which is good, right?We've made, I was just reading up an article the other day and just looking at some numbers.So maybe this will sort of help illustrate it.
I think 47% of all employed adults in the U.S.are women, which is great.So we've got a lot of women now working, which is fantastic.And then when you look at STEM roles, we're about 35%.Now, is it exactly where we want it to be?
No, but it's progress, right?It's made it, which is really good.But if you double click on that for the field that I'm in, which is computer science, I would say it's a little bit lower.It's about 25%.
of the working population of computer science jobs that have women.The pipeline is better, like so people coming in taking STEM degrees is good, but if you look at computer science, engineering, kind of those fields, technology, it's only about 18%.
So again, fairly low, but better than where we were maybe 10 years ago, right?
So good progress. I would say we need to continue to do more.And certainly I would say while the entry problem, if you will, or the pipeline problem we're solving, there's definitely you asked the question about leadership.
And as women try to progress, the numbers start to drop off, which is sad.Like we don't want that to happen.
And so I think we really need to while we've been addressing maybe the starting side, which is if you don't even have the pipeline and people entering the workforce, there's no chance of thinking about leadership.Right.
So I think we as a society, we focused on that portion and getting better and we need to do more as I kind of talked about the numbers. but there's a lot more we need to do into helping.
And so a number of things I think organizations can do, whether it's like civil work arrangements, having role models, because people having women in leadership helps you to drive in boards, having more women representation, right?
Thinking about sponsorship, mentorship for women.I think there's many methods I would say of trying to really have the focus.
And I think that's what is still needed because we're not, there are many, many days, many places I look at, there's not as many when women that are in leadership positions, it's getting better. So I think that's the key, I would say.
And I'd say maybe just talking a bit about BJ's itself from that lens, I would say, Bill, definitely there's a lot of focus and I'm really proud of that on diversity and inclusion, both of the executive team.
We have a number of women executive leaders on board.So it's a good representation, I would say, that we have at BJ's and a lot of team member resource groups focus on kind of saying, how do we think about diversity and inclusion and
kind of enable all of us to be our best.And that's what it is, right?It's about bringing different perspectives, making sure that we are having an environment that sort of thrives on it.
So we've definitely been doing a lot and it's been, but I think there's a lot more that needs to be done.I guess maybe that would be my kind of conclusion as I think about it, reflect personally is what I've seen.A lot more needs to be done.
There is.There is absolutely no doubt that there is a lot more that needs to be done.I do think, though, I mean, in terms of awareness, that a lot more needs to be done, that we have to be proactive about it.
We can't just assume it's going to happen organically.I think that that has somewhat changed.People are a little bit more focused on the fact that we've got to be thoughtful about it and we've got to be proactive about it.
And that will drive the change that we need.
Exactly.It's awareness first, right?If you don't have awareness, there's no action that sort of follows and you're absolutely right.
I think there's a lot of, I think companies have, so it's more structured methods of kind of being focused, deliberate, driving training, looking at your processes, looking at everything from recruitment, methods of having diverse leads to, there's many ways you can kind of make sure that you've got a good, fair process.
Yeah.So I've been with the National Retail Federation.When I first sat down with Matt Shea many, many years ago, I was in retail and I really had no desire, I guess would be the word, to go work for a trade association.
And yet the more I talked to Matt and I talked about the work that they were doing and the challenges that they had and the opportunities that they could present to the industry, which I love,
It became apparent that it would be something I actually would enjoy doing.So I told him, I said, I'm going to do it for three years.I'll give you three years and then I want to get back into the industry.And he's like, just give me three years.
So I've been here for 12.And part of the reason for that is that I just, I do love this industry.I love what they do for people and the communities that they serve and the people that they employ and the impact that they have.
And we have a great opportunity to tell that story every single day.We build the platforms, we bring the people in, just like this, just like the podcast, to tell a great story.Now, how have we evolved?
Well, we've evolved because we've had great leadership.And what's really interesting to me is, in terms of brands that have been a part of my experience at NRF, BJ's has been there since the beginning.
And so, you know, we've got Bob now is on the executive committee.Chris Baldwin was our chairman.Bob, I believe, will soon be our chairman.So BJ's has been a big part of us.And it's grown a lot.There's been a lot of change.What do you see?
What's next for BJ's?I mean, how do you grow from where you are today with everything that you've done and all of the opportunities that you see?
It's a great question.I think it's a really great future as I think about where we are and where we want to go.
Bob's been really helping us bring that mindset of growth into the way we think, the way we operate, and not looking just for today, but looking for the next horizon as we're growing.
we are definitely growing, without a doubt, from our footprint, kind of growing our 10 to 12 clubs, as well as all the gas stations that we have, which is a fantastic place to be in.So I'd say growth from a footprint perspective is happening.
Our digital business is growing really well, which is fantastic to see that a lot happening on the merchandising side, and really transforming and making sure we've got a really rich offer as we think about what we provide.
And I think it all goes back, I would say, Bill, to Then maybe it's summed up in this shared purpose that we have as an organisation that we're all rallying around, which is, we take care of the families who depend on us.
When you think about those words, it's all about one being that member-centric and putting the member at the centre of this.It's about taking care.It's about service, being a servant organisation that cares about the members.
We are doing everything we need to do to earn that every single day, and they're depending on us.When they come into shop, they expect certain things, and we have to make sure that we kind of fulfill that promise of what we have said.
We will provide, whether it's pricing, whether it's the type of assortment, all of these things.
So I think if I think about where and what's next for BJs, it's about doing all of those things that we have started the journey and continuing to do it unbelievably well and keep focusing on it.
Focus allows us to grow, to kind of bend things naturally.If you take care of the members, we will grow as a company.We will do all the right things.We'll have it."
Really being focused, I would say, on our key priorities, which is, how do we improve our member loyalty?Earning that right to serve every day.We're focusing a lot of initiatives on that.
Giving our members an unbeatable experience when they walk in the door or they shop online.How do we provide that?How do we deliver value so they can Everybody's time is precious these days, right?
How do we make sure we are giving them exactly what they want, the right place they want, and as quickly as we can, right?And then growing our footprint.
So these are kind of our fundamental sort of key priorities that we are anchoring everything we do in the company around it.And that's underpinned, I would say, by having the best team.It's all about talent.
And Bob is really, as well as the executive team, really focused on that, which is refreshing to walk into an organization that puts so much, because when you really think about it, everything is because of the people in any industry, to be honest.
You think about retail, I've come from pharma, where, of course, the science is so important.But even there, it's about the people, whether it's the R&D scientists, whether it's any department that you think about, right?
And that's what we are really backing down on kind of saying we are here for our team members.How do we make them be the best version of themselves and kind of focus on talent?
So underpinned by making sure we have the best talent, thinking about operational excellence.This is where technology comes in play, as well as a lot of other things.
And kind of our business model is based on driving efficiencies and giving whatever we make back to our members.Right.So that means we've got to be really disciplined in how we drive things and being excellent in what we do.
and then making sure that we manage our financials in a disciplined manner.And that goes without saying, but a very important part of making sure.
So I think for us, what's next is really, we've got a great winning strategy, we've done well, and we need to continue on that and not forget the fact that while we do all of this, the reason why we do it, right?
So we can kind of continue to anchor ourselves and go.I think it's a fantastic, it's a great place to be in, in a growing organization that also cares.
I'm going to ask you two other questions, and if we have time, I'm going to ask you the last question.So my first of the three would be best piece of career advice you've ever gotten.
Best piece of career advice.I think I would say it's about taking risks, Bill.Taking risks and pushing yourself outside your comfort zone.And I'll sum it up in the, or I'll kind of put it in the saying that a mentor of mine told me a long time ago.
If your dreams don't scare you, you're not dreaming big enough.And I think as I reflect back on my career from the very first one to every opportunity I've taken within a company, outside the company or switching,
It's all about pushing yourself when there's something that scares you in the pit of your stomach, right?If that is not there, then you're probably not pushing yourself far enough.
And so that's sort of how I've taken every single opportunity, raised my hand for whichever component.And it's because of that advice.And I've got to constantly remind myself of that.And coming to BJS is actually a great example of that.
Did I know anything about retail?No.Did it scare me?There's a part of my job, of course I know what it is. But there's a part of the job that I have to learn.
And so for me, that's actually allowing me to leverage some of the muscles that I probably had kind of taken for granted, right?A new place, a new group that I've got to build relationships, a new industry I have to learn.
But it also gives me the chance to maybe question things that I don't take for granted just because I haven't been there.I think for me, that's probably the best advice that someone gave me.
And I've tried my best to kind of keep that at the back as I've gone through my career.
I have had the opportunity to speak to a lot of our students in the student program and the foundation, things of that sort.And that is always the thing that I tell them, take the risk.
If you go to bed and you're thinking about it and you go to sleep and you dream about it and you wake up and you think about it and then you get that thing in your stomach that you just take the risk.And yeah, to your point, dream big.
So the future of retail, what excites you the most?
A lot of things.And I would say selfishly, perhaps coming from the lens that I do, I would say the leveraging technology and the explosion of things that can happen with technologies, what I probably am most excited about.
I think we've already, to your point, there's a lot that's already happened in retail with tech, but I think it's even more exciting.
And so when I think about that, and maybe to break it down into four buckets, I would say, Bill, on where I think tech can play and will play, not that it hasn't, but will play even a more significant role.The first is about personalization.
So personalized retail, and how do we relate to our customer and kind of leverage the knowledge that we have to serve that member, to help them get exactly what they want because you're relating to the member.
So that's first, personalization and personalized retail.The second, I would say, is frictionless retail.How do we make it simple to do whatever we have to do?Shopping should be fun, not boring, difficult, hard, right?
How on earth do we make this simple and break it down so it becomes easy? The next one, I would say, is about experiential retail.How do you engage?How do you truly engage?How do you start to get immersive technology?
How do you take the digital and the physical and bring it all together to be able to provide a very different shopping experience and an outcome experience that you get out of it, so you know exactly what you're getting.It's all about that.
The last one I would say is, I would call it the algorithmic retail.How do we get technology to be smart and to be able to predict things, to be able to automatically go do replenishment, forecasting?
There are a number of ways where the algorithms can be helping us behind the scenes to be able to actually improving what we get, how we get, where we get it.So I think those are maybe four lens to kind of think about.
But I think there's a lot when you double click each of these, there's a lot that's happening from a tech and will continue to maybe things we haven't thought about that are going to start as you merge all of these together.
Yeah, it's exciting.And what a great industry to be in if that kind of thing is something that just really makes you want to go back the next day and the day after that and the day after that to learn, to grow, to implement and to see the results.
I won't have time for that last question, but I'm going to save it till the next time we see you on Retail Gets Real.
Thank you so much, Bill.It's been a pleasure talking to you.Thank you for having me.
And it's been a pleasure talking with you as well.Thank you all for listening to another episode of Retail Gets Real.You can find more information about this episode at retailgetsreal.com.I'm Bill Thorne.This is Retail Gets Real.Thanks for listening.
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