Welcome to the One of a Kind podcast, the show where we explore the stories we tell ourselves and the moments that got us here.I'm Nisi Duran, and I hope today's conversation gives you something to smile about.
Welcome to the 27th episode of the One of a Kind podcast.In this month of gratitude, I am introducing you to the bright and bubbly Amy Matsuno-Prince, who will make you smile.
I met Amy when I was doing my first stint as Chief of Staff to YouTube's VP of Operations, Sebastian Misoff.Amy was our HR business partner, so she was my partner in crime and making all the magic happen.
She was the one that convinced me to start YouTube's Latinx Employee Research Group, and we hosted the first ever Hispanic Heritage Month at YouTube's global headquarters.
I am so proud of all the things we accomplished together, but even more proud that we have stayed friends and big supporters of each other. Amy is a Bay Area-based millennial who is currently a Senior People Partner at Google.
She just passed her 14th year anniversary at the company and has worked across many products, including YouTube, Google TV, and Chrome.She grew up in California and attended the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania.
When she's not at work and solving people puzzles, you can find her being a mom to her three-year-old son, collecting badges on Peloton workouts, laughing with friends and family, or attending concerts.
In this conversation, we discuss competing identities and how we often experience the world as the world treats us.We also determine that the word nice has become an insult, and we both laugh a lot.I hope you enjoy our conversation.
I think I have a strong bias for action that's come up in my performance review, like every single time for 14 years. So I do have to balance with like, okay, not everything needs an action.
Um, but I think generally I try to be positive, not like take myself too seriously.Um, but it's interesting that question, like kind of threw me off guard because in my role, I'm constantly the person asking other people, how are you?
And like, I rarely actually have to answer that back.So when I have to answer it back, I'm like, Ooh, what do I say?What, what do I think?And so going back to your identity question, it's, I almost like,
can almost assimilate myself too far and take on other people's thoughts, questions, feelings, because that's what I'm absorbing all day, and then almost have to step back and be like, wait, what am I feeling?
Do I feel that too, or am I just mirroring them?So sometimes I have that at the end of the day where I'm like, oh, am I feeling sad because that person's feeling sad, or am I actually happy?
How do you figure that out?
long commutes, car rides, just reflection.Or when someone, like, even when you just asked me, how are you?It stopped me in my tracks a little bit.Right.Because I'm like, oh yeah.What about me?Like, how do I feel?
Like it has to be a very intentional thing.And I don't do it often, probably, to be honest.
I think a lot of us fall under that trap.Don't you think?
I was going to ask you if you thought there were certain characteristics of people where that's more the case.Why do you say women?What's your hypothesis?
I think not to like stereotype around like a maternal-ness or whatever, but I do think that women tend to be maybe more in tune with like feelings or it's harder to sometimes separate feelings from like thoughts.
And sometimes I'll see like very business oriented, like, you know, can always have a straight face. more often in like men.
And maybe when you're like in a more one-on-one encounter, they'll open up and you're like, Oh, this person is actually a huge softie.And it doesn't show up that way.
But I feel like sometimes with women, we can kind of wear emotions on our sleeve, but at the same time can also sense that on other people.And yeah.
Yeah, this is a silly example, but I use a lot of heart emojis at work.Me too.We use Slack a lot now.I mean, that's where we operate and we didn't use it at Google.I don't know if you all use it now, but so it was a change for me.
And now I'm all about the heart emojis and the heart thank yous.I'm all about every emoji.
You are?Okay, good.Yes.What's your favorite one?It's another form of expression.
Okay.Is there a couple that you go to often?
The heart one with the fingers.I like that one a lot.I'm honestly always trying to use emojis that like no one has heard yet or seen yet.
Like I'm always looking for like a really obscure one and I'm like, oh, this one showed up and I'm going to use that one.
you know what, my coworker at work, he found that there's like the middle finger one is there.And he said, he almost picked it.He thought it was like the thumbs up one.He was going quick.He said, why do they have this one here?
They should remove it from the corporate account.I think I accidentally used it too.I thought it was like a number one.Yeah, no, I've done the same thing.And they're like, oh no, HR is flipping me off.
I love that.But I initially I was hesitant to use the emojis, even though to your point, they're another form of expression, because I do come across as very warm, very friendly.And I've had people not in my recent past, but before say things like,
Oh, I didn't realize you were kind of the implication being this smart or this accomplished.They said, I thought you were just a nice person.And it's interesting to me that sometimes- Do you feel insulted when someone says that?Oh yeah.
I don't want to be nice.It was rude. But they were equating the idea of being kind or nice or friendly or whatever with intelligence.
Saying that if you're very nice slash kind, which are different things, but just to bucket them, you're not as intelligent.So have you ever heard anything like that before?And what are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, I see.I feel like I hear that description a lot on people.I, for whatever reason, don't get that.So I'm like, I must not be nice in which my husband would probably agree.But no, I totally hear that a lot.
And I think it's hard because I think what people sometimes are quite nice with, at least in like a business setting, is like a person has no backbone, like that they're a pushover, right?
Like not nice as in like, oh, they're empathetic and great to work with, but they see it as like nice as in meek and weak and like can't make decisions or like, you know, can't think for themselves because they're almost following the consensus of the crowd.
Like, I feel like sometimes those are the underlying things I'll hear when you push a little bit more on the like, oh, tell me more.Like, why are they too nice? So, but we've now used that word to mean those things.
I see what you're saying.It's a proxy almost, or like a substitute word.It's because it's, yeah, versus like meek is what they actually mean.It's interesting.
And so in your sense, the examples you gave were when people use that word nice, they're saying the person is almost ineffective.Do you find that people say that more about women or is it just across the board? Oh, I hear it on all, all folks.
Yeah.And in people, and like the same way that you and I had that reaction, like a lot of people don't want to be called nice.I mean, it's similar to like a romantic setting.Like people hate to be described as nice.
They're like, you couldn't come up with any other adjective versus nice.Like it's nice.Should basically just be an insult at this point because when did it become an insult?
Cause it is an insult that feels like, yeah, I don't know.I don't know. You're right, we were talking about this with other friends who go on dates often, and especially guys, they don't like to be called nice.
They say, you can call me kind, you can call me thoughtful, you can call me things, but don't call me nice.Right, it's like, it's almost like an offense on their masculinity or something.
But like, we're women and we're also offended, this is funny.Yeah, exactly, exactly.Well, I now feel bad for the word nice.I know.I'm empathetic towards the word nice.
Yeah, kind, sweet, yeah, those are better.
I also don't like sweet, people call me sweet and I'm like,
It's not that you're sweet.You're warm.I feel like you have an effervescence to you that's very warm.But then you're also a go-getter.You kind of have the best of both worlds where you're like, oh, you are an awesome human being.
And then people are like, she's super smart and she gets things done.
That's how I remember you.
Thank you.Do you remember Crystal Stonebreaker?
I do.She sat next to me.Recruiting and HR sat next to each other at YouTube.What a crew, what a duo.Yes, yes.
When I was getting to know her, she looks at me and she says, you're low-key intense, aren't you?She was like, I see you.She's like, you're smiling, but you're intense.I was like, uh huh.
So true, so true.So many of us are, I think you're the same.I feel like you don't miss details.I feel like in a meeting, you're always, even now, you're very intently listening.
And at the same time, you're probably tracking what the next thing is that you might say.So it's like you have the next action item and you're like, but I hear you and I see you.
That's hilarious.This is actually really helpful for me to reflect on myself too.So thank you.I appreciate you.I appreciate you.So when you think about your identities outside of work, what are the things that are important to you?
Okay, there's a lot.There's one obviously since birth.So many people don't know this about me, but I am half Chinese, half Japanese in blood.But my family and myself, we are born and raised in Peru.So like my parents born and raised
like my dad literally only speaks Spanish.And I moved here when I was four.So I like consider myself Peruvian and Latina first, and then I consider myself Asian.
But I feel like the world, you kind of get to move through the world based off the way you look, right?
So I feel like I move through the world like an Asian woman, even though inside, I'm like, wait, no, like, I just want to listen to like salsa and like, you know, eat lomo salchado. So when people ask me about identity, I'm like, oh, I have a crisis.
And so I constantly ebb and flow between both being like proud of that melting pot and then also of like, where do I fit in?Like, where is my sense of belonging?So that's one piece.
And then I think a more newfound identity is I now have a toddler son who's three.And now this identity of becoming a parent and a mother like has also completely rocked my world.I now like look at working parents and I'm like,
How did you move through life all these years?I had no idea what that shift would be like.So yeah, both of those things are, I think, two big identities for me that are constantly at play.
And both sound earth shattering, right?When you experience them.
They're both.You didn't pick any easy ones.Exactly.Exactly.I'd like to talk about both of them.So the first one, you said you moved here when you were four.What was that experience like for you?Do you remember it?
So I don't remember for a ton, but it's funny because my mom will always tell people that when we first came here, people were like, Hey, is something wrong with her?Because like, she doesn't talk at the school.Like she's silent, she's mute.
And later she's like, I think she was just confused because she didn't know the language and got thrown into this situation.They more say it like years later being like, Amy talks so much.How is it that when she was four, she was mute?
Um, but yeah, I do remember though, like, you know, when I was younger, I remember being really, I grew up in a probably more white populated neighborhood, like, definitely white was the majority population.I remember like,
wanting to be as white adjacent as possible.Like, hey, don't pack like weird lunches for me that like my friends aren't going to recognize.
Hey, when we go to a parent teacher back to school night, like, can you speak in English in the classroom instead of speaking to me in Spanish like we do at home?Like little things like that.
I feel like when I was growing up, it was almost like, how do I cover that side of myself so I can assimilate?And then I think as I got older, I started to appreciate like,
people almost found it exotic that I could be all these different cultures and I could play up like different cultures depending on who I was surrounded by.
And then when you get into a professional setting, when it was like ERG signup time, I was like, where do I go?
And to be honest, I still have that like identity crisis in those settings where I'm like, I feel like I'm almost like half in half out on both things. Yeah.
How do you think your son's going to navigate that?Because now he has a, what is it?A fourth identity or a fifth identity?Yes.
Yeah. Great question.Yeah.Cause I married a white man.So he is, you know, a mix of all of those cultures.
And it's funny because then my parents will start talking to him in Spanish and clearly he like doesn't understand, but they're like, we're just going to keep trying.Um, yeah, I don't know.I don't know.I think that's going to be hard.
I think that one thing though, that feels uplifting to me, at least in the Bay area is I feel like a lot of people are mixed like where we are in Oakland. every single family on our block is a mix of two different races and not the same two races.
So I find some comfort in that.And I absolutely like when we visit other cities, when we're like, Oh, it'd be so great to like, I don't know, have a half of the cost of living.
I like look at the demographics and I'm like, I just, I don't think I could do it.Like I would feel too different.And so those things definitely matter to me.
That's awesome.I do remember that about the Bay area and also the area that you specifically live in on the East Bay.It's very attractive, right?To make sure that your kids fit in.
I remember when we were in still in San Francisco and we were living in San Francisco proper and in Jordan school, there was a lot of diversity as well.And I recall some parents would come up to me and say, your daughter's so beautiful.
And these were white parents saying that about my daughter, who's half Latina and half Asian. And I mean, she is beautiful.She's so beautiful.And also looks aren't everything.
But I just remember thinking, I wonder if we lived in a different part of the country, if that demographic would still think that, would still say that. And maybe they would, right?
But it was my fear of not knowing, you know, and so it is something beautiful to be in a community where you think by default they will be more accepting because life is already really hard, right?
Exactly.It's already really hard.Like why throw them another challenge?
Why?But you didn't grow up in the Bay Area, right?I didn't.
I grew up in the East Bay actually.
Farther east.How do you always go to Seattle though?Is there a family in Seattle?Oh, my older brother lives in Seattle.
Okay, so you did grow up in the Bay Area.So that's, that's nice.You had some exposure to lots of different people that way.Yeah, definitely.
Did you still continue your Spanish?My parents still speak to me in Spanish.And my brother is seven and a half years older than me.So when we moved, he had already gone through all of elementary school in Peru.So like his Spanish is fluent, perfect.
I feel like I have a very like, gringo accent. My Spanish.But when I know that people only speak Spanish, I'll speak back to them in Spanish.
Like when my grandmothers were both alive, they'd speak to me in Spanish and I would speak to them in Spanish.But the minute I know someone speaks English, I'm like, ah, this will come much faster to me.
You're like, your brain is working that way.Yeah.The last question I had around here was when you do have those identity crises, to use your own words, right.Or just your pause and you say, which one do I lean into?How do you land on that identity?
Like when you say sometimes you pull them up, pull them down.How do you pick the one that's going to feel right in the moment?
Yeah, it's probably the one that feels more comfortable, right?Like the one that where you feel less like the other, right?So if I'm like in a group of like all Asian people, I'm like, okay, I can like play up this part of my identity.
Let's talk about, you know, food or like things that Asian families do and traditions and holidays.And I can do that same thing if I'm in a group of, you know, Latino people.So I think that I, I choose the one that I think that
feels less hard, which is probably very human of me.But also like, sometimes I'm like, Oh, like, why?I feel like sometimes I'm, I'm intentionally not showing the other side, if I don't think that group is going to understand the other side, right?
So it's almost like, why bring the other side of me, if like, that's not something they're going to relate to.So I think I try to use it both as a strength, but then it's also feels like sometimes it's very incomplete, if that makes sense.
Yeah. It goes back to what we were talking about earlier though, that you care a lot about making connections.
And so I take it as you're trying to lean into the side where you're more likely to have a connection with folks versus trying to hide or because you're embarrassed of another identity, at least at this point, right?Like as a grown woman.
So that's where my mind goes, but I'd love to hear your thoughts if you think that's accurate.
I think that is accurate.Have you ever done StrengthsFinder?
maybe a long time ago.Tell me about it.
Because it's like, it's one of those, you know, personality trait things that people love using for team building offsites.And there's like 25 traits that you take a test on and they tell you like, here's your five top traits that you use.
My number one is Wu.And Wu is like the art of winning people over.And like how I really thrive, I think, on that trait.So back to what you said, that actually tracks with that thing of like, okay, in this setting, this is gonna work.
And so like, I'm gonna play up this style.
Because they're all part of you still.You're not playing up something that's not actually you.Right.Right.So it feels good still.I hope.I hope anyway.
Yeah.No, totally.Totally.And I feel like in general, like I find I do this both like from a racial cultural identity, but I think I do that in my role too at work. right?
Because if my role is often trying to build connections with people or through people or with people like trying to build connections with each other, like I'm often trying to dig and get to like more, um, I guess vulnerable conversations.
And so you kind of have to pull up the relational piece to get to those things.I always tell people, you have to talk about the small things to be able to talk about the big things.
And so I feel like, yeah, you're just kind of always building on that.
I don't know if I've heard that before.
I like that.I tell my husband this all the time because he's an introvert and I'm an extrovert.And we talk about like, I'm like, oh, I don't really mind small talk.
Like I don't want small talk forever, but I've just recognized that sometimes small talk turns into big talk.
You know, and you almost have to have several small talk moments before you can even like, why is someone going to tell you big things if you've never talked before, you know?
And so you build comfort in these like little things like, oh, like we got coffee together and then I don't know, I sat next to you on the bus or we waited in that long airport line.
And then like, hey, something happens and suddenly now you feel comfortable talking to me.And I think about like, oh, there was all these micro moments that led up to that trust.
And so even just talking more broadly about this creating connections piece, I always just mentioned like, got to talk about the small things first.Like you have to start somewhere.So.
I really love that because I don't love small talk, but I do it.I can do it.I always want to get into the trauma.
Yeah.Yeah.Let's get into therapy now.But it's like, but it becomes like, who are you?Like, why am I telling you those things?Right.So like that thing, some people are instant connections from day one.
But other people are not naturally going to be that way.And that's normal.Why are you unfolding your life story on all your random people that you're meeting for the first time?It totally builds over time.
You're completely right.It's about trust.It's also even just practice learning how each person communicates and listens and how they tell stories and what it takes for them to open up.
So you need to practice with each other if you're going to get vulnerable.I really like that.I'm going to steal that.Yeah, please steal that.And then the second identity you talked about was becoming a mother.So what did you think it was going to be?
And then what was it in reality?
How long do we have? I, look, I don't, I adore my son.I love him to pieces.I also had no idea how parenthood, how hard parenthood would be.
Cause I feel like when you look into the media, social media, or just like what people present about their family life, you see like someone's like framed family photo on their desk.
And you know, they only hear about all the good things like, Hey, look, this person's, I don't know, like baseball game and like they're graduating. you only hear about the good things.And then I realized those good things are like moments in time.
There's still 24 hours in the day where you're like, you know, sometimes there's tantrums.Sometimes it's like you have to discipline them.You know, sometimes it's you can be bored also with like very small kids.
So I think like just the full spectrum of parenthood, I felt like wasn't really available to me or like I either I didn't see it, or it just wasn't there.And so I felt like I was only supposed to experience a highlight reel of what I saw.
But so then when you felt like, oh, this sucks today, or this is really hard, or like why, you know, when people are like, you should be so happy, and like, right, I'm like, I'm really tired, or like, this was a hard day.
It actually was like incredibly lonely.Like those those first few months of parenthood, I was like, Oh, this is a lonely place.And like, Yeah, I remember that very distinctly.
How did you get out of the lonely place?
Lots of Reddit in the middle of the night.So like, I'm like, I'm going to relate to strangers now.Like just, you know, and I felt like people were very honest online.But I think also I started just even asking other people who I knew were moms.
And I found that When I started asking them about it, they were actually pretty vulnerable in admitting some of those challenges or hardships that I otherwise wouldn't have known or they wouldn't maybe even have shared.
So I think I found solidarity in other people just being like, yeah, me too.I've been through that.You'll get through it.Everything is a phase.That helped me a lot, too.
And so just, I think, hearing from other people of, I felt that, too, went a long way with me.
Connections and vulnerability, right?It helps so much.I remember after I gave birth to my first child, Jordan, I was in awe of all mothers after that.If I saw pregnant women, I was like, oh, I was like, you angel.
Or like, you just, because you know, it can be really hard.Some people can have easier pregnancies, but there's always something hard about giving birth and being pregnant. and every child is a miracle.
And then it's also just earth shatteringly hard, right?People can tell you, oh, you're not gonna sleep or, oh, get used to being constantly woken up after X number of hours.But unless you've actually gone through it, you just can't understand.
And so, yeah, I'm in awe of parents still.I don't know how we do it, to be honest.
And then working parents adds another layer where I'm like, oh, you feel like you have two full-time jobs, right?And it's like, when is your downtime or your break?Those moments feel really, really fleeting.But it's interesting.
I remember in one of those early months, I remember asking a really good friend of mine who had an older kid and also another son who was my son's age. I was almost mad.I was like, why didn't you tell me?It was going to be like this.
How come no one talks about this?And she was like, Amy, she just knew you can talk about it all day, but unless you go through it and somebody doesn't understand, so it's almost not worth it to try to tell them how it will be.
And plus, all of us also have very different experiences.Some people actually do have very happy blissful experiences. experiences every day.And I, I'm like, that's awesome.
But then there's another side of people where I'm like, Oh, if you ask them, they'll tell you today was hard.And this weekend was hard.And that like three day weekends when you have no childcare are hard.
I know it's no longer vacation.And you don't want to sound negative.
Exactly.Yeah.Someone's pregnant and so excited.
So excited.You're at the baby shower.You're like, yeah.And then you watch them open all these gifts.And I'm like, you're not going to use that.
You're like, oh, that really cute outfit's probably going to have a blowout in it.
You're going to throw it away.Exactly.Or like, oh, I used to laugh when people used to give newborns shoes.I'm like, they're not walking.They're useless.
Although I still have two Jordan shoes, like Michael Jordan shoes.I have them here in my office and they're so cute, but Jordan wore them maybe once or twice for the photo.
So many things for the photo and every photo you see, I'm like, trust me, there were 50 tries before that photo that you saw before the beautiful one.
Anything else that I didn't get to ask you that you wanted to chat about?
Hmm.I think those were like the main things.I mean, I just I love that you're doing this.Honestly, I think it's so cool.It's been awesome to see like the different folks you've pulled from different parts of your life.
And clearly how you've maintained connections with people.Also, like you're really good at like, asking questions.And you know, like, taking the conversation wherever it's meant to go, but like, you should, you should, you should do this full time.
I, I know I, um, or thank you.Not, I know, but meaning when I was looking for a job at Intuit, the guy who ended up hiring me, he asked me on my first call, he said, are you sure you want a job?Cause he lets you listen to the podcast.
He said, are you sure you don't want to do your podcast full time?I was like, no, I want to make money.But I do love this.And for me that maybe this'll be my last question for you. what this has afforded me is a creative outlet.
And I found that as we get older, we don't lean into that because to your earlier points, we don't have a lot of time, right?You're a mother, you're an employee, you're a wife, you're a friend, you're a daughter, those are the things.
And sometimes we put our needs last.But for me, and I would say universally, I think most of us need a creative outlet.So I was wondering if you have one or if you're thinking about one.
I wouldn't say I have a creative, actually maybe.I love painting nails.People who know me know I have like a 60 color nail collection.It's constantly growing.So big on nails.But more than creative, it's more physical.
So actually, nine years ago, my boss at the time had us all do personal OKRs.And my personal OKR was like, oh, I'm gonna create this spreadsheet that tracks workouts I do throughout the year.I've now kept up that spreadsheet for nine years.
It's just nine tabs. And it's color-coded, of course, by type of exercise.So whether it's like a bootcamp versus a spin class versus yoga.And so, I mean, there are some years I'm immensely proud of.
2020 is actually one of them because being work from home that year, I was like, it was all, there was no white spots in that grid.Also the year of my wedding.
And then there are other years, like the year I gave birth where I'm like, oh, and then there's like five months, didn't even need a tab. But I think that's been an outlet for me, just like physical release.
And also it's just like a time where, you know, I don't have to be on my laptop or phone or responding to other things.It's like a true hour, half hour to yourself.
I'm a big proponent of working out.Like I know it's really hard to fit it in sometimes, but I feel so much better, especially if I'm stressed out.Even when I haven't been sleeping well, it makes me happier.
I don't know if that's been your experience.And I mean, I think it's just biologically the way it happens, right?
I think it's one biological.And then also maybe this is like you and me for people who have a strong bias to action.It's this like getting it done.Also accomplishment, like I did it and I've never regretted working out.
You know, those times where you're like, I don't want to go today.But then you think back, you're like, you've never regretted going though after.And so the hardest thing is just getting there.
That's like one of the quotes of one of my favorite Peloton instructors always says.And it's so true.It's like once you're there, it's not like you're going to leave.You already made, you're already there.
you don't stop.You finish the class, you finish the workout.And so how, what advice would you give to parents who have young kids and feel like they can't work out?
You've got to create time.And, and if it's a priority to you, you will.Right.So like, I know a lot of people who they get up the hour before their kids get up.So if your kids get up at seven, you're up at six and you, you just fit it in.
Um, or, you know, when it's gotten really busy at work and I'm like, I also don't want to, affect sleep, it'll be like, hey, instead of doing lunch with so and so, like, what if one time a week I go to the gym?
So you'll, you'll find time if you care about it.I think if you know, you have that many excuses, it's probably you just actually don't want to do it.Because we all will find time for the things we want to do.Like that's, yeah.
That's actually completely true.You do.Yeah, you find time for the things that you want to do. This was so great.I don't know when the last time I saw you in person was though.So long ago.
I actually don't know either.
I'm going to come visit Steven and Rachel next month.
Please come say hi.I'm literally up the mountain.
So I will come say hi.Should we go work out?
Yes. Yes, we could do that.We could go for a hike.We could, yeah, so many things.We can go for a hike and eat bread because East Bay has really good bread too.Yes, so much good food.I love it.Yeah, please do.
I would love to see you because it's been a while for sure.
Yeah, and I would love to see Steven too.Yeah, I mean, he can stay home.I'm just kidding.He's such a trifecta.I like adore that period of my work life and normal life.I really do.Like I'm not just saying it because I'm here.Like I have like
golden stars come up in my eyes, like thinking about so many people in that time period.
I agree.It was a special group of people in a moment in time.And we were all excited about working with each other and working towards the mission.And I will always miss those parties.
Yes.Oh, the parties are excellent.
And ski week, which was really just a couple of days, but yes, so fun.
Yes.So I used to joke, though, with folks.I was like, I always had to, like, block the next two days after the ski trip because I was like, it was full HR investigations.
Yeah, a lot.Yeah.People had a little too much fun, but no, I agree with you.It was it was so great. Thank you so much, Amy.I want to see you in a month.
This was wonderful.I'm so excited to edit it.
Yes.Big hugs for when we see each other next.I'll see you soon.Thank you.Bye.Yeah.Bye.
Thank you for listening to the one of a kind podcast.This show is edited by my brother from the very same mother, Jose Duran.We have more episodes on the way, so please check us out wherever you get your podcasts.
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