Welcome to the One of a Kind podcast, the show where we explore the stories we tell ourselves and the moments that got us here.I'm Nisi Duran, and I hope today's conversation gives you something to smile about.
Welcome to the 25th episode of the One of a Kind podcast.I recorded this episode in 2023, but was waiting for the right time to release it.
I think I was hoping to take advantage of the financial advice given in this episode, so I would have a headstart on all of you, but it actually never happened.Today's guest is Parker Joe.I met Parker at Columbia Law School in New York City.
He was part of my study buddy group, and I have memories of his epic study guides and all the times we laughed about life together. Parker's nickname for me is Superstar, and he has always made me believe I can do anything.
He is a lovely person to have in your corner, and I am thrilled for you to get a glimpse into his Pokemon-filled brain.
Parker is a corporate finance lawyer working in New York City and a real estate investor specializing in single-family homes located in the Sun Belt. He loves geopolitics, investing, and talking about Pokemon.
He is a father of two and hopes that his kids will grow up to have bold ambitions along with being great and understanding people.
In this conversation, we discuss the importance of finding things that spark joy in your life, and Parker makes a case for why investing in real estate can help accomplish this. We also discuss Colombia and what it means to be successful.
A special shout out to our friend Rory, who sparks joy in both of our lives.I hope you enjoy our conversation.
Being successful in Chinese culture basically means this. it means living the life that your ancestors want you to live.
Because, you know, a central tenement of thousands of years of, I think, Chinese thinking has been Confucianism, and one of the central pillars of that is filial piety, of, you know, respecting the wishes of your, you know, grandfather or father or whatever that is, you know, your parents, and
I think the issue with the parents' vision of success is there's always another rung.It's like social media, right?And so I think I mentioned to you earlier about how Chinese people love to compare themselves to others.
And it goes something like this.My mom would say, oh, look, my friend's daughter went to Harvard.Or, oh, look, my friend's son is three inches taller than you.He jumped every day and he drank milk every day.
Or, oh, my other friend's daughter brought her kids home to see us in Seattle.You know, they live in Boston.They live six hours away.Why don't you bring your kids to Seattle? And so I've realized that I've actually been pretty successful in my life.
And the reason I say that is, you know, when I was growing up, the number of people they would compare me to, and it's always someone who's like superior in some way, not inferior.Those people, you know, aren't worth comparing ourselves to.
But it's always, there was always so many comparisons.This person's son, this person's daughter, my coworker's son, my coworker's daughter.But now it's gotten less and less since I've gotten an okay job and have a couple of kids and stuff.
So now it's, oh, having grandkids isn't what matters.What matters is my brother's kid lost 30 pounds.
And of course, that's not true because obviously having grandkids is like the central tenant of existence.Because if someone doesn't have kids of themselves, they're viewed as a bear branch.
And that's a big no-no, a big no-no in the Chinese way of thinking.
A bear branch.Yeah.What a beautiful and painful way to describe that.
Absolutely.It's quite sad to think about because one of the things that happened with the one-child policy in China is a lot of families had only sons.And so there's a guaranteed 20 to 30 million bare branches out there.
And since there was only one child, that means that family's name won't continue, whatever that means to people, but it is a big source of sadness, I think, among a certain generation.
Did you know you always wanted to have kids?
Oh, absolutely.And I always knew that I wanted to have multiple because, you know, I'm an only child myself.And my wife, Lucy is also an only child and just growing up, kind of felt alone all the time.
So I wanted our kid to have, you know, someone that's there, like, accountability like their friend, you know, and that's why, you know, we have two kids.
What did you do when you were lonely?
Oh, I invented so many games myself.Like I used to kick a ball and pretend like it was soccer.Like I would set up the goalpost and I would just kick it around.But I would set up an opposing goalpost as well.
So I take turns with shots and then compete against myself to see which team would win.It's a good workout.Yeah, yeah, definitely. you know, children, they're, they're pretty funny.And they are so innocent.
And they say just the darndest things without, you know, the feeling of social pressures or comparing themselves against others.And, you know, all the other conform behaviors that we do every day.
Is there a conform behavior that you have that you've noticed?
Not really, I feel like generally i feel like i do better if i'm just myself because every time i've tried to be someone else or try to do what you know, I think is the expectation of conformity, I wind up having like way worse performance.
Like, I remember going on these job interviews, and I gave the answers that, you know, our, our like recruiter friends or like our friends in counseling would say we should give or, and I always did so poorly.But when I just gave an answer that
you know, I felt like that went with the flow, I usually wind up getting, you know, repeat interviews or job offers after that.So that's, that's kind of the formula I've been going with.
And I think the reason why that works well, for me is because I'm short and not much to look at, but I have a sweet face.
So you do have a sweet face.
I think that's the only reason that works because I, you know, everyone has their own archetype.And you know, what works for some people might not work for others.
Yeah, I think that's right.I think I'm just going to push on that a little bit.Why?Because I care a lot about authenticity and coming across as like authentic.Why do you think do you think people are picking up when you're pretending?
Do you think that's why it doesn't work when you're trying to conform in a pretending kind of way?And like, why do you think people care?
Um, I think so.And I think, you know, most people, I think a lot of people go through life kind of in a haze and kind of just doing what is expected out of them.
And I think, you know, these bursts of authenticity, really speak to people and really inspire like a short burst of energy.Like,
One of the things I've been doing recently is instead of wearing, I'm not doing it today, but instead of wearing these like, you know, unicolor, like one color t-shirts, I've been wearing like Pokemon t-shirts, like with Gengar or like Bulbasaur or something like that.
And that, that really sparks a lot of conversation, you know, even in New York, because, you know, in New York, no one's supposed to talk to each other.Like you're, you get on with your business, you know, you leave other people alone.
You pretend like, you know, you're a mean person so that no one talks to you.Right. But I've had so many people come up to me and want to talk about Pokemon.And it's across all, you know, genders, races, ages.It's truly shocking.
I think that sparks joy, you know.
I love this conversation.I love that story.Wait, so you've mentioned Pokemon a couple of times.Are you really into Pokemon?I guess it's an obvious question.
It's on and off, but, you know, it's just it's just a hobby.What do you like about it? It's colorful, number one.Number two, it also exposes some contradiction and hypocrisy in our society, right?
Because on one hand, it's really adorable, and the Pokemon are fun, and it's really colorful, and you get to learn a lot of intellectual things like typing, and what attacks go with or good against what Pokemon.
But on the other hand, it's also an analogy for animal fighting. And that's really, really frowned upon in our society.And I can't believe more people haven't been outraged by it.
But I guess since it's colorful and especially in the shows, there's a real emphasis on caring for Pokemon that that's overlooked.
But I was kind of bothered by that because, you know, dog fighting and like, you know, chicken fighting is very, very frowned upon in our society.And yet Pokemon, you know, them fighting each other is like, kind of like animal fighting.
That's true, but they're cute.Yeah, but they're cute.Yeah, exactly.
So we're like, they're cute.It's fine.They let them claw their eyes out.
And plus, they always heal back to normal anyways, no matter what kind of attacks there are.
So magic, magic.Yeah, that is wild to me.And so there's this universal love of Pokemon. That's really cool.And there's also the, to your point, the last thing you said was it sparks joy.Do you feel like we're missing that in society?
And that's why when someone is actually, tell me more, tell me why.
So I feel like a lot of people live their lives based on other people's expectations.Like, I'll give you a specific example.So, you know, in big law, I think a lot of lawyers, are confronted with this option oftentimes in deals.
They can either do the path that is really, really difficult and a very, very, I would say, very, very low marginal value, or they can choose the easier path where they don't have to work until 3 a.m., but maybe they're gonna miss something, quote-unquote.
And I can guarantee you that most big law lawyers will pick the path where they put in all this extra work for very, very marginal value, if any.And it might even be negative marginal value.
Because what's going to wind up happening is the client's going to see this really inflated bill, because they've been billing all these hours, and maybe that decreases the chances that this law firm will be used for their next deal.
So, but I think a lot of people make that decision to make their lives worse because I guess people might have the attitude that if you experience pain, then there's some gain or something like that.
But I feel most a lot of people, you know, go through life without intentionally seeking, seeking things that spark joy. And I was really inspired by Marie Kondo's statement on, and she's big into like decluttering stuff.
And her big line is, you should keep something if you hold that item and it sparks joy.And I just thought that was such a great way of looking at things.
Yeah.And you think most people just don't think about joy in a day-to-day or?
I mean, most people do want joy, but they're not setting their lives up to maximize opportunities to spark joy. And I think that really ties into real estate investing.Let's do it. Let's do it.
You know, the reason why we got started into real estate investing is because, you know, stocks go up and down.And I had been in the stock market for quite a long time before that.
And it just seemed like, you know, I just had no control over anything.
Like, for example, when companies release their earnings calls and whether it's good or bad, it's always during off trading hours where, you know, plebs like myself don't have access to the market.
So I thought, you know, there's gotta be a better way, something with more control and something more real.
And basically my wife, one of her childhood friends had cashed out on a bunch of like Facebook stock and looked into this and recommended, you know, investing single family homes.
And he found these, you know, two companies that were great to work with that basically do a lot of things you know, for you that make it like just super, super easy.And that's how we got started.And now we have 11 homes.
Eventually, I think we're going to aim for like 17 or 18.And then eventually, we plan on not trading time for money anymore.
I don't want to use the word retire, because, you know, we're not really going to retire, but we're not going to have to trade time for money anymore.
And why is that the goal?
I think if we have that pressure of making money, then maybe we're not doing what in our lives would spark the most joy.For example, if I didn't have to trade time for money, I probably wouldn't be a corporate finance attorney.
a prosecutor or an assistant teacher.You know, I can't take the responsibility of being the main teacher, but I will be a great assistant to the teacher or something like that.
Or, you know, being a youth lead like soccer coach or something like that, I think would be great.And I think that that would spark a lot of joy.
So you're saying that, I just want to make sure I understand, you're saying that at least for yourself or your family right now, you feel a need to accumulate a certain amount of wealth.
And before you, once you do that, you'll feel more freedom to be able to search for things that spark joy in your life.Do you think everybody feels that way?Or do you think that people make different choices?
I think a lot of people feel that way.
But I think the disconnect is a lot of people don't know how to get from, I'm making money now, I'm doing things to make money, to build that life where instead of waiting until we're like 65, we're collecting social security, something like that, to achieve that life sooner.
And I think that's what real estate investing has given us. And most people would ask, oh, so when can you retire?And I always posit this answer back to them.It's not when, it's where.So right now, our passive income is about 60,000 a year.
So that would give us a pretty good life in, let's say, Chiang Mai time.So that's where we can retire.And eventually we're gonna move up to like Bangkok and Saigon and South Korea, up the scale.
But the reason why we need like 17 homes and them all to be paid off and to accumulate more wealth is because unfortunately, we live in the United States and not just anywhere in the United States, New York, New York, which is one of the two most expensive places to live.
And you might say, why not move to a lower cost locale.And I think the reason is, at least my personal reason is number one, New York's amazing.And there's a lot of fun things to do.And you're just exposed to a lot of interesting things.
And number two is I feel like New York gives the children the greatest sense of possibility.
And I don't want to take that away from them because, you know, I grew up in the suburbs and my conception of what was possible was that, you know, if you went to Applebee's and got half price appetizers, that was amazing.
And there's nothing wrong with half-priced apps at Applebee's, but there's a lot more.That is amazing, though, Parker.
Half-off appetizer is pretty nice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.Yeah, but there's a lot more to life than half-priced apps at Applebee's.And I feel like New York would give the children that sense.
You've been in New York since we went to law school.
So how many years have you been there?Yeah, 2009.
Amazing.Do you feel like a New Yorker?
No, not really.You know, number one is, you know, I don't really talk with that New York accent.You know, I don't I don't really like the Giants or the Jets or the Yankees or the Mets, like at all.So I don't really feel like a native New Yorker.
I feel like one of those yuppie transplants that are here to work a job. but like living here.
So like living there and having great conversations about Pokemon with everyone in the whole world.So what has New York made possible for you in your eyes that wasn't possible before?
Um, I would say it's, it's shown me what's possible in life.Um, and also like my, in my field of work, it just, makes a lot more sense to be in New York.
Like if I did my field of work anywhere else, I'd probably be paid like half as much and the work wouldn't be very sophisticated.So New York is the place to be for at least my current career.And it's just been a lot of fun.
There's a lot of, you know, different restaurants, different museums to try.And there's just a whole host of like really, really interesting people.Like the parents at My kids' daycares just do such fascinating things, right?
Like they don't, they're not all like lawyers or doctors or anything like that or business people.
Like one person's like an expert in wine and another person is a executive chef and another person, you know, just went on a book tour, she released a book.
And, you know, I just find, you know, the variety of people in New York to be just so fascinating.
And that sparks joy for you?I'd say so.I'd say so.And you think for your kids having exposure to that will,
It's important for them to realize there's a lot of paths in life that are possible because you know, the traditional Asian way of bringing up a kid is you got to be a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer and you got to have a prestigious degree in a prestigious school and you got to get a mortgage and you got to work for 40, 50 years and then
You got to have kids, get married, and you got to raise them in that same cycle.And, you know, there's pros and cons to that.You know, it raises very conscientious, very disciplined, you know, very hardworking kids.
But at the same time, you know, can those kids really say this is a life, this is their own life, this is the life that they want to live?
I actually have a lot of job satisfaction despite being a corporate finance attorney.Yeah, help clients solve problems, help structure deals to make them compliant with law and documents.And, you know, people are really happy.
You know, when I'm able to save them like time or money or to find a solution to their perplexing problems, but sometimes it's obviously not not possible.And but sometimes it is and it's very rewarding.
I mean, the way you described it, it sounds creative as well.Would you agree?
There's a there's a little bit of creativity that goes into it, but too much creativity is a very, very bad thing.
Go to jail. Just to close out your conversation around real estate, what was the hardest part about getting started?What do you think holds people back from doing it and any advice you would give folks?
I think right now it's basically, we're social creatures again.We're group creatures.I think the biggest thing is in group favoritism and social proofing.Like, we want to see other people doing it.And frankly, most people don't, right?
So the fact, I think what holds most people back is no one they know is doing it.
And what I would say to people who are nervous about getting started or nervous about looking into it or found something but they don't know whether to pull the trigger or not, I would say this, is there's people way dumber and way less creative and way less hardworking and with way less education and with way less money than you who have done really well, who have done great with real estate investing,
And you can really design the life of your dreams if you just work at it.Like, I think Lucy and I are probably going to not have to trade time for money anymore in about 15 to 16 years from now.And that's on like a
pretty upper middle class income in terms of passive income.And, you know, it's not get rich quick like crypto.I know a lot of people are into crypto because their friends are into crypto and there's definitely fear of missing out.
It's not get rich quick, but it is get rich slowly.And you do control your assets.And frankly, you're providing a lot of societal benefit as well, because a lot of these houses that you'll probably end up buying
have been, you know, either from estate sales or in really bad shape that no one's living in there currently.
And you'll provide the capital to, like, repair those houses and to bring them back onto the market, you know, bring them back onto the tax rolls so that, you know, they can fund schools and fire departments and roads and stuff like that, as well as provide somebody a place to live.
So I think there's definitely a lot of social value in that as well.
I didn't think about that part of it because you're a landlord, right?And you're a member of the community at that point in theory, or you're investing in that community.
I would actually, yeah, and I would actually prefer to use, you know, less, you know, people use the term landlord-tenant and, you know, we're all about the word police, our woke community, but I would actually prefer to use the term like
owner and resident.Like, you know, resident sounds a lot better than tenant.
And plus, when we value the people we live there, they're more likely to stay and that actually increases our own profit because they're less likely to move out, which decreases turnover expense.
Have you ever had a bad experience?
Oh, there's been there's been so many, but that's the beauty of owning 11 properties, like one bad spirit, one bad experience, or even two or two to three at the same time is still going to be breakeven.Yeah, it's going to be good.
But I think the worst experience that we've had was you know, there was this one resident, and she had been living with her elderly father for about 15 years in a place.And all of a sudden, her father, you know, passed away.
And she couldn't afford the rent anymore.Because, you know, the social security checks, you know, weren't coming in. So, you know, we try to work with her to find a solution.
But what wound up happening was, you know, she tried to hang on for about a year or so.We basically gave her around six months free rent and then she eventually moved out at the end of her lease to move in with her boyfriend.
So I think, you know, on the one hand, it is sad because basically someone got priced out because their father passed away.On the other hand, you know, we try to engineer like as soft of a landing as possible.
And you know, that does come out a significant, you know, financial hit.
But I think that was the right thing to do at that point.Parker.
I really like that story because it's like, I don't know, like to your point, it's not just what I'm hearing from you.It's like, it's not just about the money.
Like, yes, like you're trying to find a way to protect your family for the long run and be in a situation where you like to your point, you can spark more joy for yourself, but also for your kids and like maintain this like lifestyle that you have, but you're not doing it at the cost of everybody else.
You know, that's not your approach at all.
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of people very against basically what I'm doing.Oh, really?Yeah, I would say so.And, you know, I think among certain leftists in Brooklyn, there will be like,
I can't morally justify being a landlord or something like that.Or, you know, what terrible advice to give people, you know, you're pricing people out of their homes or whatever.
And I would just say that, you know, homes are not in finite supply and the more people purchasing homes, the more it spurs new construction.
And of course we can argue about, oh, new construction is, you know, more expensive or the homes you're buying are on the cheaper side or who can afford what.
But I think in the long run, it's really about stimulating more supply, and that's what's going to keep costs down.
Because I don't know if you look at, you know, rents in like California versus in Texas, but you know, in Texas, construction is a lot easier.
Rents don't grow as quickly, whereas California is a bit different, mostly because the easy areas to build are already built on.There's not like endless expanses of land like around Dallas or Austin.
We, you know, we can, we can do these like little band-aid solutions, like, you know, banning landlords or banning Airbnbs.But at the end of the day, if we really want rents to come down, we have to, we just have to build more supply.
I agree.I agree.I agree a lot with that.One final point here, and then we'll move on, but just, it's interesting.We talked a lot about comparison.
And then at the beginning of this, you said that people don't do this because they don't know people that are doing this essentially, right?But then you said like, there are people that are dumber than you, have less money.
So I liked how you used like the natural way that we compare ourselves to be like, Compare yourself, like in this case, compare yourself and then you'll feel strong enough to do it.
Yeah, I mean, the reason I did that is because we're naturally inclined to believe that line of reasoning.And, you know, as I tell my kids, you know, we can't play the game based on the rules of what we want the rules to be.
We have to play the game based on the rules that are currently there.So while I don't want we us to compare our happiness to other people, we have to recognize that people are actually stimulated by that kind of reasoning.
So that's why we have to use it from time to time. But I do feel bad about that.You're about to call me on on that.
Is there anything I didn't ask you that you want to share about yourself or your experiences or advice you want to give to other people?
I would just say no one's keeping track of what you're doing.
Like no one's keeping score of how prestigious your job is or how much money you make or you know, whatever, what school you went to, and it's important to live a life that you're proud of.
Like one of the guys I went to high school with, he basically bought up a couple of apartment buildings in this small town in Washington State, and now he basically lives in Mexico and eats tacos all day.As well as doing yoga and stuff.
But he basically designed a life for himself that's you know, not what anyone would consider traditional, but something that works for him.And I think that's great.
I love that.And it goes back to your point of, I'm guessing he had opportunities where he could compare himself to what other people were doing and he chose not to.
Absolutely, absolutely.Like, I think his sister went and got a four year degree.And you know, I was married with kids and stuff.And you know, that's just not the life path that he went on.You know, he's, he's not that old.
So if he wanted to get back on that path, I mean, he could, but you know, we all make the decisions we make.
Is he really doing yoga and eating tacos?Is that really what he's doing?That sounds like a good life.
I think so.Yeah, I think he lives in Marida on the Yucatan.Yucatan.
I like it.I like it.Parker, do you speak Spanish?No.Me hablo solo un poco espanol.
Pensé que hablabas español.Pensé. ¿Antes hablabas o no?
No, no.Yeah, but when I went to Colombia, I was called Jackie Chan a lot.Jackie Chan.
Wait, when did you go to Colombia again?
I went to Colombia, I think in like, I don't really, I think 2018, I went to Colombia because I've never been to South America and I heard like Medellín was great and I was going to go with Lucy, but she was afraid of There was some kind of fever.
There was some kind of fever at the time.Some kind of like tropical disease.But then I wound up, you know, going with some other friends.Nice.
And everybody was Jackie Chan.
Yeah, it was very shocking.It was, hola, Yaki-chan.Hola, Yaki.It was very, very strange.Because, you know, Colombians, I feel like, are very, very open and forward and direct people.
There's no, I mean, they're the exact opposite of, like, Scandinavians, who are, you know, a lot more reserved and shy.But, you know, Colombians are very forward.You know, you look like Yaki-chan, and we're going to call you Yaki-chan.
My favorite musicians are from Colombia.It's Juanes, Shakira, Sebastian Yatra.I love their music.I should go to Colombia.
It's awesome.It's extraordinarily beautiful.Like Medellin smells of flowers.It's a city of eternal spring.And most of our, you know, cut flowers come from Colombia because it's growing season all year around.
Oh, what about the food?It's all right.
I mean, it's very, I feel like it's very, it's very heavy and hardy, at least the food that I had.But you know, there's a lot of plantains and avocados and, you know, rice and beans and, you know, various, you know, meats.So I love plantains.
Last question around like food.What is your favorite food?I would say scallops.Oh, you fancy as hell, Parker.
That's right.That's right.
Well, you know, we're going to have our spots on where we choose to splurge or not or to save.Scallops.Do you make them or is there somewhere in New York that you get them?I do make them.Yeah, I do make them.OK.
The key is to pat them dry so that they sear properly.Nice.Otherwise, you know, it's going to get all liquidy and gunky and stuff.
The reason I was going to ask you about food, too, is because I wanted to ask you your opinions on hot pot, bringing that back.
I think hot pot's great.I know Brian mentioned that is boiled meat and vegetables, which it is.But part of the value of hot pot is not just the food, but the experience and the actual participation in making the food yourself.
And to, you know, we're very visual creatures.And to see the food raw, and then to cook it yourself and to see it cook and to see it bubbling away, I think has some of that value to people.
Like you've accomplished something.
Yeah.I mean, something very, very, very easy, but something.
but also taking it back to joy, right?Like that's how I feel like when I'm cooking food at Hot Pot.And sometimes I'm too tired for Hot Pot, right?Especially with kids, sometimes it's exhausting.
But it's nice, like you're sitting there, you're cooking the meal, then you're like the meat and then you dip it in the sauce and you make your own sauce.
So you can decide what the flavor combo is and then you eat it and then you're talking with someone.So to me, it brings me joy, that whole process. But we're entering hot pot weather, you know, so we're already in it anyway.And ramen.I'm hungry.
I haven't had, well, no, what did I eat right now?No, I had like a half of a protein shake thing.I'm hungry.I need to go get some more protein.Do you want to give a shout out to Rory?
Yeah, absolutely.Rory, shout out to you.You got two kids now.That's awesome.You're working for the government.That's awesome.It's a thankless job, but someone's doing it.I'm glad it's you.Keep doing what you're doing.
If you need someone to complain to about the sorry state of Northwestern football, I'm here for you.Have a great one.
We love you, Rory.Thank you so much, Parker.This was super fun.Thank you so much.It was amazing. Thank you for listening to the One of a Kind podcast.This show is edited by my brother from the very same mother, Jose Duran.
We have more episodes on the way, so please check us out wherever you get your podcasts.
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