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Matt McGee is the founder of MRM Education, a tutoring and college admissions consultancy that promotes academic curiosity, mental health, and confidence in students.
With over a decade of experience as an admissions specialist, consultant, and tutor, Matt's intensive mentorship method has helped hundreds of students raise their grades and gain admission to Ivy Plus schools.Hey, Matt.So nice to have you here.
Hi, Lily.Thanks for having me.
Well, I would love to have you take us back in time, however far you want to go, and tell us about your journey as an educator.
Yeah, for sure.I guess it goes pretty far back at this point. 15 years.So I came out of college with an English degree and didn't necessarily know what I wanted to do with that.
So I wound up getting a job as a private tutor and I was working with kids on ESL.And that essentially took off into getting me involved into college counseling.And then when COVID hit,
I realized that there was a point of entry for me into the marketplace that didn't have the barriers of needing a brick and mortar space and having all of those things involved.
So I started MRM Education, which now is the online company that we use to do all of our remote servicing.So that was kind of the CliffsNotes version of it, but it does go back over a decade at this point.
Yeah, that's great.I love how you saw the opportunity to I think many people did, right?Like it was challenging.It also showed us how to bring a service or a product to so many more people being able to work online.
And so I'm curious, just about you mentioned the college admissions and the tutoring.Can you tell us about how those are are or are not part of MRM education?
Yeah, for sure.So they are both very much a part of MRM education.They're very central to what we do.I've always looked at private tutoring and what I do.
And the reason why I never wound up transferring into the classroom is because we do one-on-one.And that's always what I really enjoyed, was the one-on-one connection, building the relationship with a student.And I was never necessarily interested in
having to navigate relationships with 30 kids all at once and trying to figure out what that was.And so yeah, naturally with the college admissions being one-on-one and the tutoring being one-on-one, these two things kind of blended into each other.
So as we offer it, we work with students one-on-one in the college admission space for like a complete comprehensive support throughout their application process.
So that can look like sometimes we get seniors who are basically done with everything and they want some edits on their essay and we come in and we say hey these are the changes we would make and we do that.
Other times we get students who are as young as 12 years old, they're in seventh grade, And they're saying, hey, I am gunning for these top schools.And we then work with them over the course of five or six years.
And we work with them from building their extracurricular list.We help them build their activities list.When it comes time to do all the application stuff, we're working on those things.
But really, we're sort of supporting them and mentoring them through the process of going to high school and making sure that they're making the most of their time. um, by helping them do th projects and get involved important to them.
And I that's really important t focus on what they love.I think there's a lot of pressure to get into the most competitive field or to go into STEM because that's where the jobs are.
And while I think there's some value to that, a lot of what we do is to try and guide people toward what they're going to enjoy.
And it's our philosophy that if you go that path, if you focus on what you care about, you're not only going to be more successful in getting into a better college, but you're going to be better suited once you get there to succeed.
Absolutely.And that's something that I think everybody should hopefully, right, like take away into their jobs, into their lives, like being able to bring their passions.
And so rather than seeing it as something that has to be a checkmark, or, you know, something you have to do, and seeing that there are multiple ways to do it, too, as I'm sure you see, with college admissions, and with tutoring, like a variety of different interests and skills, and that like, there's no one right way.
Absolutely, and that even goes back into the tutoring as well, because I think one of the things that we see in tutoring is like, hey, you're struggling in math, so let's get you a math expert.
And the reality of that is so, it like glosses over so many of the possible issues where you're like, so what is, why are we struggling in math?Is it because we don't understand the subject matter?
Or is it because the teacher explains it in a way that your brain doesn't process?Is it because you have a neurodivergence?Is it environmental?Did you just hit puberty and there's a cute girl in your class and now you're not paying it?
There could be a million reasons.
And so yeah, we really just kind of try and approach it from the holistic, the holistic approach of there is a student here, there's a full person here, let's figure out what they're going to grasp onto what they're going to cue into and, and run with that.
And I think that's where we find we're really successful.
Yeah, that makes sense.I mean, I think that the best education approaches all are based on knowing the student, right?
And being able to make adaptations based on the individual person and also help them, as you were saying with the college admissions, like advocate for themselves as learners and know themselves as learners.
And so that like metacognitive moment that we can help coach students through can be so valuable.
I love that you talked ab for themselves because th of it, both when you're d who tend to be very hand to teach these kids to li this is how you're gonna m forward going or going f
you know, students with disabilities and neurodivergent students, a big piece of that is advocating for yourself when it comes to an IEP or when it comes to your accommodations for testing or anything like that.And it's just a big part.
I mean, look, what's the point of education?The point of education is to prepare you for the rest of your life.It's not to get into college.It's not to get a grade.It's to prepare you for the rest of your life.
And that goes beyond what academia can provide.So I think if if we as educators can start to prepare you for that and give you those tools outside of what's going to make you successful in the classroom, that's when we're succeeding.
That's what really matters.I mean, I think focusing on the bigger why behind everything is always important.So I love that.
And I'm curious, too, thinking about like the college admissions and the tutoring, how you see those connected or if you normally work with students on both sides.So how does that work?
Yeah, for sure.So yeah, we definitely work with those students on both sides.And I feel like those things have always very naturally kind of gone hand in hand.
I mean, to get back into my origin story, for lack of a better term, I was working with a student with, he was an AP English student, and he had some essays that he needed to do.And he was like, hey, will you touch these up for me?
So I was working through those.I was touching him up. It was really good.We had a lot of fun.We enjoyed doing it.And so that led to another student who said, you know, he brought them to me. And it kind of built from there.
So the marriage between tutoring, which tends to be, hey, I'm taking this difficult class and I have this rigorous course load and I have a really busy schedule.So that's why I need this like supplemental stuff.
You know, it tends to be students who are going to college.They're the ones that kind of want those services.So yeah, those two things have always kind of been very closely married in my experience.
That makes sense to me because also it's like it's getting to know the students through tutoring maybe and then through leveraging that relationship to help them as like an individual find the best path forward or vice versa.
Like, hey, we're creating this path and then you actually need a little more support over here or what's going to be an obstacle that you might face on this path that we've laid out for you.
So I think it's interesting thinking about how they both fit together.
Absolutely.And you get kids, you know, you get students all the time who are like, I'm in AP Calc and I'm in AP History and I'm in AP Physics and I'm in AP Bio, right?And so they're taking all of these and it's like, okay.
you're a very high achieving person, I get that, but how are you gonna manage all of these very difficult classes?Are you gonna need support in any of them?Oftentimes they do, oftentimes that's the support that they're looking for.
So yeah, it really does become like a stress management thing, a workload management thing, a bandwidth management thing, because I think, I'm not sure how involved in the college's admission space you are, but now more than ever, these kids are getting insane amounts of,
I'll use the term work, but it's really much more than, you know, insane amounts of expectations put upon them where even I, as an adult, go, I couldn't handle that expectations now, let alone when I was 17 or 16 or, you know, however old these kids are as they're going through it.
And I'm curious, I mean, you've alluded to this, but like how you support students with the mental health component of all the pressure and navigating wanting to go to a certain school or have a certain experience with also all the pressure and expectations.
Yeah, so I mean, it happens, it happens in layers, because I'll tell you the amount of times I'll go on to a consult call, and I'm meeting with the family.And the first question is, So where are we at with this?What do we need the most help with?
And the amount of times that that elicits tears is alarmingly high.You can see the stress and frustration, not just with the process, but the relationship that the family has with itself and now how this is affecting their relationships.
And so it winds up being this multi-tiered thing where, so our counselors and our tutors are all trained in California, which is where we are.They have a program for, youth mental health first aid.
So essentially our tutors and counselors are all certified to be able to recognize signs of depression, signs of anxiety, burnout, anything like that.And they have the basic tools to deal with it if it's more of a minor issue, right?
Maybe it's a student that's just got a heck of a week coming up and they've got to deal with that.They can kind of handle that situation.
But in other situations, they're capable of kind of like referring that to the school psych or to if the family has a private health insurance thing, they can do that.
From the other side of it, we're very big on kind of managing and setting expectations from the outset.So you get a lot of students and a lot of families who are like, if I don't get into Yale, I will die.
And... Pressure's on.Yeah.
Well, you know, there's a 60% chance here, even with your great grades, that you are going to die.And we really kind of try and diffuse that from the outset, which is, look, the right school will find you.
You know, you will settle into the right classes and you will succeed in the right classes on the tutoring side.
So it's more about managing expectations and letting them know, hey, look, you don't need to move heaven and earth to make this process go for you.And you need to understand that
there is much more to attending college than the prestige behind going to an Ivy or going to Stanford.And so that's really where we try and kind of alleviate that pressure.It's not an easy thing to do.It doesn't happen in one session.
It winds up being as like, it's not educational therapy, but it is therapy that happens in an educational environment. And you sort of, over time, disabuse them of this idea.
And what we really do, going back to the passion, is we'll have a lot of students, they'll come in and say, I really want to go to Harvard, and I want to go to Harvard Business School after I graduate from Harvard.And I'm going, OK.
And in my head, I'm asking, why?Do you want to go there because you know what the MBA is all about, and you've seen the process of where that goes, and that's what really excites you?
Or do you want to go there because you watched Legally Blonde, and you heard that Harvard is the best school, and that's where you want to go now?
So in a situation like that, where we really come in is talking to a student and learning what actually moves a student. what do you care about?Wh love?
Because when you st things, you're going to r actually a different scho program that's much bette by the way, there's not j There's this program in a supports uh you know, an
or exists on a campus that you think is really beautiful for what you want to do.Maybe you love nature, and it's a very rural campus, or you always wanted to be in a big city.
And so Boston University appeals to you more than Harvard, because Harvard's tucked away, and BU is on Commonwealth Ave.
And that's really where we're able to break them free of this idea that there is one school for them, and they have to get into it.And we try and show them there are much more opportunities that are much better for you in that way.
That's so powerful because I also think it's so important for life too, right?Like there are infinite possibilities and so many different things that people can do.And I think that often as humans, we get hung up on one particular thing.
And so helping and coaching students, young people, teens through that process is something that I can imagine that they will use throughout their life, right?Like it's not just about getting to Harvard.It's about having the agency and
flexibility to make choices that get you where you want to go?
Yeah, yeah.Being adaptable.And in this conversation, these are the kind of things that the schools love to hear about, right?That I do have this kind of growth mindset, that I am adaptable, that I do know that there's not just one path.
They love free thinkers and creative people and whatnot.And so, yeah, it goes back to what we were saying before about giving them the tools to succeed beyond academically.
Mm hmm.Yeah.And then thinking about with the personalization and of course, as we've talked about the diverse range of students that you work with, how do you support neurodivergent students or neurodiverse students?
Sure.So, I mean, on the tutoring side, we have people that actually deal with that.We have people who are certified specialists.
They are familiar working with, you know, for an example, they have experience working with an autistic student or they have experience working with students with ADHD or other potentially, you know, processing disorders.
On the admission side of things, you would be surprised how many times people come to me and they have ADHD, or maybe they have a physical disability, and they go like, do you think that I could get into college?
And I'm sitting here from my perspective, knowing what I know, going, of course you can get into college.Like, that's a no, duh.And I have to kind of check myself with that and go, OK, but these other people, they don't necessarily know what we know.
And the one thing that I've come to kind of realize about it is, when you're told. No, you can't be included or no, this probably isn't for you because you're different or you have a disability or you're neurodivergent.
Eventually, I think you start to internalize that no and you stop asking the question.And so these people come to me and go like, I don't think it's possible, but I thought I would ask.
But so one of the big things on the college admission side that we do is trying to disabuse that very quickly and speak to your disability is actually an advantage. What you have actually creates a unique thing about you.
You see the world differently.You think about things differently.Your experiences have been different.And one of the things that colleges love is diversity of experience, diversity of perspective. Um, I was speaking with a student just last night.
I did, um, I did a presentation, uh, down for a school district in Orange County and a young girl comes up to me and she says, I have ADHD.Should I write about that in one of my supplementals or will they kind of like look down on that?
And I'm going, no, that, you know, this is something that makes you, you, they want to get an idea for who you are.So I think on the college admission side, supporting neurodivergent students is really just knowing
Knowing and encouraging these students to kind of be themselves and to not hide that bit of themselves, because colleges really do appreciate that unique, that individuality that that brings.
Mm hmm.And having that asset base and being able to flip that for students, too, is so powerful of seeing like, hey, this is actually a superpower in some ways, or this is something that you can bring to the table that not everybody has.
So building that self-awareness and taking that from feeling not great about it, you know, just seeing it in a different light.
Sure.Because if you were going back to the toolbox outside of the classroom, one of the things that we as educators have to do is build confidence in these kids. Right.
If we're not building their confidence and a lot of them don't have that confidence, we're really not setting them up to succeed.
Absolutely.Absolutely.So I love hearing about your business and I'm curious to hear a little bit more about just your experience building this organization, going from working individually as a tutor to now having MRM education.
Can you tell us a little bit about what you've learned through the process?
What haven't I learned?I feel that.Yeah, I feel like I've, you need like an entire degree in business just to figure this stuff out.It's such a wide breadth that I almost struggle to answer the question.
The amount of work and learning that goes into it,
the amount that you need to prepare for things that are not just related to what your business does, but in terms of learning marketing and pitching yourself and figuring out when to pay your taxes and how to incorporate your business and what the best business structure is.
It is its own world. And yeah, I feel like every single day, I keep learning about the things that I have to figure out for tomorrow.And I've been in business for four years.
And so for any educator that is thinking of going and starting this, you really need to think about, Do you have the metal and the bandwidth?Because we as educators, we know all about burnout, right?That's not something that's new to us.
And I think a lot of educators get into doing this because they go, I'm burned out in the classroom, so I'm going to start my own business and that's going. you're going to burn yourself.
You're going to experience burnout like you have not experienced it before with just everything that comes.And to just be prepared for that.I think that's the big thing that I've learned.
And I think it's could be a different kind of burnout, though.You know, like I think it's a certain flavor when you have more autonomy going back to even what you were saying with students.Right.
Like when it's your thing that you're building, then I think it's you definitely have to be aware, you know, and like not recreate the same old crazy patterns of being a teacher and all the things.
But I think that because you have the ability to kind of change course, it can make it more manageable.
But I absolutely agree of like having some, I don't know, like this approach to being able to just like, I have figured out or like you said, right?Like, I don't even know how many years I've been in business now, but I feel the same way, right?
Like definitely seven maybe.And it's like, yeah, there's always something whether it's like some new payroll thing or some like tech stuff or whatever.
And so being able to have that growth mindset and be able to learn through the process and not get overwhelmed, I think is amazing and also can be kind of hard, like as a teacher, where you're so just like, I'm in charge of my own classroom.
But like, there's this tech department or like, this is the HR department or whatever it is like, you're very siloed.
Absolutely.And another big piece, you know, is touching on being overwhelmed, is learning to be overwhelmed and saying, that's okay.I am overwhelmed right now and that's fine.I'm not going to freak out about that.
I'm just going to kind of like sit here and exist in that.I went to the National Association for College Admissions Counselors conference last year, or no, sorry, last week, which is this massive conference.There's like 7,000 people there.
You wind up meeting so many people, so many great relationships and whatnot.And I've had, I think, maybe 50 to 100 business cards sitting on my table for the past week.
And I'm going, I don't know how or when I'm going to be able to approach this, but I'm just kind of letting that be what it is.And I'm sitting in that uncomfortability.I think the other big thing about it is like staying connected to your why, right?
Like, why am I doing this?I know for us, for me, it's like,
There was a trend in tutoring when I was working as a tutor, and I know it still exists, where tutoring companies will charge like 200 bucks an hour, and then they'll pay the tutor like $25 an hour.And I'm going, that's crazy.
From a business perspective, I'm sitting here thinking, I could charge that.I could pay the tutor $100 an hour and still make a killing, still do great from a business perspective.
And I'll actually probably do better because my tutors will care more about this.I will attract better people.They'll keep their schedules open to reschedule sessions and whatnot.
And so that's a big piece for me, is wanting to be able to increase this teacher pay, at least on the private side, until I can
figure out how to touch t side, which is a whole ot in my moments of overwhelm of, I don't think this is moments of of fear and d I can connect with that.teacher can connect with t like that's what makes yo unstoppable, if that makes sense.
Absolutely.I mean, it gives you the perseverance to be able to move through those hard times, which are real and are going to happen regardless.You know, we can't avoid them.But having that why to kind of help steer the ship.Absolutely.
I mean, I think that's really, again, you know, so many of the things that we're talking about with students, like growth mindset, having your why, like persevering, finding your own personalized path that works for you.
Like it's all the same for us, too. as grownups and particularly when you take a risk and start your own business and kind of have to go through these treacherous waters sometimes, you know, connecting back to those same things we do with students.
Awesome.Well, it was so nice talking with you, Matt.Thanks so much for sharing about your journey and your company.Can you tell folks where they can connect with you?
Yeah, of course.You can find us online at www.mrmeducation.com.And you can find us on Instagram at at mrmeducation.com.Or you can find my personal page, which is at Matt McGee underscore college admissions.
Wonderful.Thanks so much.
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