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Georgia and Christine are co-founders of Making the Grade Project, an organization with a mission to empower educators starting with the very beginning of their careers.
While they specialize in helping teachers in their home state of Massachusetts pass their licensure exams, they support teachers everywhere in setting up their classrooms and careers for success.
Christine and Georgia each spent over a decade in the K through 12 classroom setting before deciding it was time to make a change and support education in a different way.
They've worked with hundreds of teachers over the years through thousands of workshops, classes, and one-to-one sessions, and currently provide both individual educators and educational organizations with their support.
You may know them from their podcast, Making the Grade, where they share educator stories from all over the world.Welcome, Christine and Georgia.So nice to have you here.
Thanks so much for having us, Lily.We're so excited to be here.
Yay.Well, I always start with the same question and maybe Christine will start with you.Tell us about your journey as an educator.
Yes.We love this question.We always start with it on with our professional development series, like what we do in our work, but also on our podcast as well.So my education journey started a little unconventionally.
I didn't know that I wanted to be a teacher.Georgia actually inspired me to get into the field.
um undergrad I was studying psychology and business and um I saw Georgia really loving what she was doing which inspired me to go back to school um and get into special education.So I loved it.
I taught every single grade, almost every single grade except middle school in the K to 12 setting in the Boston area in Massachusetts for over a decade.And then in 2020, I had my first baby.
And when the world shut down, I had already planned to take a year long leave of absence.And that was when I started exploring virtual opportunities.And a really cool opportunity came my way to start working with teachers and training.
So I took it and that's what I've been doing the last few years.
Amazing.I love that.I had a very similar story of like staying in the classroom till my daughter was born and then also going virtual and realizing there are so many other things I could do out there too.
Yes.And listening to a lot of stories like yours, your podcast is one of the first podcasts that we found when we started exploring alternative spaces in the education field.So yeah, listening to others share their story helps us.
So that's why we love doing it as well.
Yeah, I love that.Awesome.And Georgia, how about you? So I am one of those people that always wanted to be a teacher.I, you know, growing up was making my brother be my student and all of those things.
So I always kind of knew that was my path, was lucky enough to get basically my dream teaching job right out of grad school, which was so exciting.And at that time, Christine and I were living together as roommates.
And that's when apparently I inspired her to become a teacher, which is very, I feel very proud about that.I'm happy because she influenced a lot of students' lives. But we were both teaching for around the same time frame.
So we kind of think of ourselves as having these like parallel teaching journeys.She left, as she mentioned, because of her son being born.I left because I took a career exploration leave because I wanted to travel.
And it happened to be the same year, 2020, when everything shut down.I did get to travel a little bit before things shut down.And then I ended up going back and teaching hybrid, we were remote for full-time and then we were doing hybrid.
I did that for a little while, but it was kind of my cue that that career exploration leave needed to be even longer.And it led me to eventually say, okay, I'm going to
leave the classroom, I'm going to leave this job that I have loved for so long because I just feel like there's something more for me.
And, you know, Christine inspired me in that way where I was like, OK, she's doing something else still in education.She left the classroom.It's working for her.I can do that, too.
And so I didn't right away start working with teachers the way that Christine did.But I did a few other things.And eventually we came together.
started our podcast because we were always sharing our classroom stories and we figured maybe other people want to hear us talk about our classroom days and share their stories with us.
So that's kind of how our podcast was born and how we came to start working together.And I joined her in her efforts to support teachers becoming licensed educators and getting set up for success in the classroom.
Yeah, it's so important to having those models too, of just being able to see people doing different things.And it opens up a world of possibilities.I also love that you were able to take a leave of absence for career exploration.
Like how awesome is that?And I'm curious too, I'm just like, even if people can't take a whole year off of teaching, maybe we can all create these like career exploration moments for ourselves.And I think it's just interesting framing there.
Absolutely.I was very lucky to be able to do that.I will say I know that not everyone can do that.And it was unpaid.I will say that.
But I saved up for it because it was something I just felt was really important to my growth and involvement as a person.And so really glad I did it.And it's too bad COVID kind of got in the way of it.But everything works out how it's supposed to.
Absolutely.So tell us about making The Grade Project.How did it start?You got into that a little bit.But tell us more.
Yeah.So, um, it started really, I would say back in like 20, 2020 is when the work started.So when I left the K to 12 setting and started working with adult teachers and training, I started working
with teachers who are trying to pass their licensure exams in Massachusetts, which is kind of a very specific thing to start supporting teachers in.And it's not that I was overly interested in standardized testing or anything like that.
There was just a need.There were hundreds and hundreds of teachers that were not passing year after year.And especially as the The education climate in Massachusetts has changed a lot, I would say, over the last decade, especially since COVID.
I'm sure you hear of that happening all throughout the country.But there has been a huge decline.There are a ton of openings everywhere.
And yet, at the same time, we've had supported many teachers that really want to be in the space, but were unable to become licensed. Why is this happening?This should not be the case.There's a teacher who's ready and willing and excellent.
And then there's a license problem.So I started working. with teachers and training and I just, I really loved it.I was surprised too, because I love working with children.
There's a reason why I got into a field where I would not have to work with adults primarily, you know, it was something that I was surprised by, but we just kept seeing a need and the more work that I got into, the more I kept getting contacted and, oh, could you do a workshop series here?
Would you be open to doing this for our students?Would you come on and teach a course about this?And it just kept, we saw the need for it basically.
And then over the years in parallel to that happening, Georgia started doing content design and she can talk more about the beautiful spaces that she creates online and the content and the backend stuff.
So I started following her journey and I was just really inspired by that and like the idea of building a brand. We collaborated on that, you know, on the one hand, she said, Christine, you have all of this great content and curriculum and resources.
You need to do something with it.I was like, well, I can create it and I can do it in person.And I love teaching and I love helping us, you know, these teachers, but I have no idea how to do that.Well, I do.And it was the perfect.
match with a lot of things we're not mentioning.Should we really be doing this?In like a very quick summary, that is kind of how it started.
So we really seriously started putting more thought into it within the last two years since we launched our podcast.And then our name still made sense, like making the grade podcast, making the grade for the standardized test taking that we're doing.
And it's evolved since then, which is really cool too, which is kind of what we were hoping.And now we're helping mostly new teachers in the first five years or so of the classroom, I would say, is a sweet spot.
And just making sure that they have the support that a lot of teachers don't get around a lot of different areas.But yeah, so that's kind of like the synopsis of it.
That's great.I love that.And I love I mean, I think the best things are always evolving, you know, and changing.And I love how you shared like the parallel journeys that then come back together at various points.So that all seems so interesting.
And I'm curious, Georgia, about that content development piece.Like what were you doing in the interim while Christine was kind of doing the work with the new teachers?What were you doing?
So I have always loved just creating things and just Having like a final product of something watching something to come together.That's just something that I've always enjoyed doing And it's when I was in the classroom.
I was doing that and even more so when we started remote teaching Because I was teaching pre-k by the way, so I was teaching the littlest kids in And online learning actually went pretty well.
And I think that's because little kids kind of like to be see themselves and show off their houses and they don't have any fear of like what they look like or anything.So they loved it.But in order for it to be successful, I had to create
a platform for my parents to be able to go on and see what we were learning about and have the kids be able to do some stuff at home independently.
And so I loved creating little classroom websites that were really useful during that time, newsletters, things like that.I started using Canva a ton, which I'm sure you know Canva.Everyone knows Canva at this point.We love Canva.
I love Canva so much.Canva, if you hear this, I will work for you.I will support you.But, um, so there's, you know, a million things you can do with Canva.
And so, um, you know, after once I did leave the classroom, I was still using Canva in other ways.I was dabbling in real estate and helping the realtors create stuff for themselves to market themselves.
So, um, I've done a bunch of things, um, in terms of website and content creation, and I just really enjoy it.
And so when I saw Christine have all these amazing things and needing like a place to put them and a way to just package them up and share them with the world, I knew that I wanted to help her with that.So that's kind of where my piece came in.
And I also love, we're both very organized people.Like I think a lot of teachers are very organized.
We are to a fault sometimes, but that back end piece that is so important with running a business and being really organized and having spreadsheets and making sure you know what you're doing day to day is just going to make a business successful.
And so that's another area that I really, really thrive in and enjoy.
Wonderful.And so I know now you're working with beginning teachers and do you have certain areas that you focus on with them?
Yeah, so everything that we focus on, we try to view from an executive functioning lens.So thinking about the way that you learn best, the way that you process information, and then how is that going to be applicable to your day-to-day life.
So, you know, we do that with, if it's standardized test taking, passing teacher tests, there's a whole process to it.You know, we start with their learner profile, getting them to think about when
times that they've been successful in, whether it's long term projects, or even just, you know, teaching a unit or something that they've done well, what were the ways that worked for them.
And then we also are doing a few different series this year, with a few different colleges, teacher prep programs locally in the Massachusetts area, all about like, key
teaching areas, so time management, work-life balance, we're doing, I'm trying to think of the other ones off the top of my head, let's see, time management, technology, technology in the classroom, even just like emailing and having templates ready to go, so things like that, and then classroom management, so thinking about
the structure of your classroom, like the environment, the physical structure, and then the, you know, thinking about like behavior management and things like that.
So everything kind of starts from that executive functioning lens to kind of tune into your inner strengths and areas of need, and then going forward from there.So it kind of, we tailor it depending on the organization needs.
Yeah, I love the personalized approach too.And the approach on executive functioning, that's an interesting lens to start with and seems like a great guiding way to go.
And I'm curious how your experience with new teachers has made you think about just teacher training in general and maybe how your own experiences becoming teachers, you know, going through teacher training programs, what do you think needs to change when it comes to teacher training?
Yeah, so I mean, when Christine and I were both in the classroom, we spent a lot of time with new teachers.We very quickly wanted to become new teacher mentors, even though we were still kind of new to the teaching field as well.
We just loved having student teachers.I always had a para, because like I said, I was pre-K, so I always had someone helping me out who I ended up viewing as like a co-teacher because they were in school to be a teacher.
They were, you know, doing their hours, doing their coursework.I loved giving them like ownership of the classroom to create activities and plan lessons because they were excited and eager.And that's the best way to learn is to just do it.
And so even when we weren't doing what we're doing now, we kind of always knew we wanted to help. new teachers in some way.Maybe we didn't realize it, but subconsciously we did.
And so when I was starting out as a pre-K teacher, I was the only pre-K in my classroom.And so there was like one pre-K at a bunch of the different schools in the district.
And we found that it was really hard to feel supported when you're the only one in your grade level.And so we kind of formed our own little cohort of teachers
where we would meet outside of the classroom and just talk about what we're doing in our pre-K classrooms and talk about how to set it up and how to create materials and classroom management and manage our time and all of that stuff.
And so I think that made a huge difference for me in setting me up for success and, you know, having me not run screaming away from the field.And so I think that
We now want teachers to feel that way, feel like they have a community of people supporting them.And maybe it looks different than what I experienced or what Christine experienced, but knowing that they have people in their corner.
wanting to set them up for success and help them see like their intrinsic strengths and see themselves as the expert of their classroom.
I think so often teachers are told what they need to do, you got to do this, you got to do that, you got to fit all this in and they really need to be seen as the experts.They're the ones who are with their students all day, every day.
There's a reason they chose this career and they know a lot.
And so putting them in, making them feel that place of, I'm the expert here and I can make decisions and giving them more ownership of the professional developments that they choose and making them feel more empowered, I think would make a huge difference for new teachers, for all teachers.
I agree.And it's so much of what also is great for kids, right?Like giving them agency and making them empowered and giving them a voice and choice.
And so I think so many of the things that we're like teaching teachers to do in the classroom and we know work in the classroom also need to be put on teacher training.
So I love that focus on community and agency and teachers as the experts that they are.And also with that too, it's like being an expert doesn't mean that you know everything. And so you know a lot about education.You're the expert of your classroom.
But I think just normalizing within a community that there are always going to be things that we're struggling with or don't have all the way figured out is so important, too.Absolutely.
So going back to both of your individual professional journeys, and I know they're like intertwined in a very beautiful way, I would love for you to reflect on what you've learned about yourself throughout your careers.
Yeah, no, we love this question.We love the self-reflection piece.And the first thing that came to mind for me was just that there's not just one way to do something.
And that's probably the special ed teacher in me, but there's always going to be more than one way to solve a problem.And really, when you put student needs at the center of what you do, then you can't go wrong, right?
If you're acting in the best interest for your student or your client or, you know, whatever space you're working in, then you're leading with heart and you're leading with the best intention.
But I think, yeah, something that always bothered me about being in the classroom or kind of like not at me was just that it seemed like in order for something to change, there needed to be like this, all these different series of events.
And I'm like, Why can't we just X, Y, Z, whatever it is?Like, why can't we just do this?And it didn't feel to me like there was a ton of space to like explore that.Like, I always had great leadership and abilities I was in.
But it was kind of like beyond that, right?Like, oh, I you know, I'm gonna watch the teacher across the hall for me.She's an expert in behavior management, and I am not.I learned so much that way.
But kind of beyond that, like, well, why couldn't this student be in this placement of this school?You know, like, why does it need to be so complicated?
So yeah, I think just when, when I first thought about this question, just the like, problem-solving piece came in to my, came first to me.
I love that. I would, you know, echo everything she said.And I also think something I've learned about myself is that it might sound obvious, but I'm always, I'm always changing and I'm always evolving.
So kind of how we were saying before, you know, business is meant to evolve, like, you know, every iteration is going to look different depending on yourself, depending on what the need is, all of that.
I think I struggled a lot when I left the classroom because I was like, I'm a teacher.I love this.I teach preschool.How can I do anything else?
And now I couldn't be happier where I'm at, and I'm still making a difference, and I'm still loving what I do.And I'm so glad that I leaned into that little nudge of like, you're changing, and it's OK.It's not bad.You're meant to evolve.
We're not meant to stay the same forever. even teachers who do stay in the classroom for their entire careers till they retire, their teaching style is going to evolve with time and that's great.
I think that's something that I've learned and I'm trying to embrace all the time is that change is good.
Yes, it can be a little bit scary, but there's a reason if you're feeling a nudge to change and if you lean into it, you'll be led to the right next step and it's probably going to be really great.
Absolutely.I love that.I feel the same way.I mean, I think change is always kind of hard and kind of amazing.
And so really leaning into it and always taking stock of what needs to change or what you're feeling the pull to explore, I think can be so empowering. So then thinking about our listeners, I would say are of two breeds.
So some of them want to stay in the classroom and, you know, maybe are exploring ways to use their skills outside of the classroom or really just want to further their skills as a classroom teacher.
And then the other people are looking to or maybe already have transitioned outside of the classroom.And so I'm wondering what advice you'd give for both the people who want to stay in the classroom and those who want to move beyond.
You want to go first?Yeah, sure.
So for those who want to stay in the classroom, the first thing that comes to mind, I was just talking to one of my good, a lot of our good friends, our teachers yesterday, and I was thinking she has really great boundaries.
She's realistic about what she can and cannot do. And she was kind of saying this when I was talking to her on the phone.
She was saying, you know, I remember when we first started and we would stay so late and we would, you know, could just kind of like go above and beyond with the scope of what was okay for ourselves without burning out.And now,
She said, you know, it's not that I care less.She's like, I'm just more realistic with myself about what I can and can't fix.And I think, you know, having that outlook is really important.
I think Jordan, I mean, she can see for herself, but I feel like we almost did put in over and above for a really long time.And it was hard to find, it's hard to find the balance when you love what you do so much.And it's hard to find the balance.
I think when you're serving,
people, like when you're in a people first profession, but I think prioritizing your needs and your student needs and then leaning on your network of teachers and non-teacher friends, like both of our husbands are not in the education space.
And sometimes it would be kind of frustrating that they didn't understand, but it's also really important to have other perspectives of like, wait, it's normal to be able to pee and take a lunch break?That's good, you need those for money.
So yeah, I think, yeah, people, you need those boundaries.I know that's said a lot, but thinking about it in a realistic way for you, mentally, physically, whatever that is.
Absolutely.And focusing on what you can control, you know, I think that's so much part of it too, realizing what you can control and put your energy into and what you can't, you know, so much of a part of having that boundary.
Flexibility is a big piece of that.For those who want to leave the classroom, and I love that both both sides, so to speak, listen to your show, because that's who we like to speak to, too.We love all teachers.
We want teachers to do what makes them happy.If that means stay in the classroom, that's amazing.Let's give you a community that supports you in doing that.If that means leaving the classroom, please support that, too.
So we are all preaching to the same people, and I love that. For those thinking about leaving the classroom, I know, like I said before, it was a bit of a struggle for me because I sort of, again, had always wanted to be a teacher.
And I felt like, what am I going to do if I'm not a teacher?Am I going to be able to find meaningful work?What else am I good at?And so it was definitely a bit of an identity crisis.And so if anyone is going through that, you're not alone.
I think every teacher goes through that a bit when they make the decision to leave the classroom.And so just knowing that you're able to teach, you're able to really do anything.And so your skills can be used any way that you want to use them really.
We're organized, we take care of 20 plus children every single day.That is like a super skill that can translate in a lot of different ways.
And so I remember just kind of starting to pick people's brains and doing research online of like, what types of careers do teachers transition to?
Um, you know, I thought about the things that I liked doing in the classroom, which again was like being really organized, making sure everything was set up successfully for the kids and creating the content.
And so I said, okay, those are the things I feel skilled in.How can I take those elsewhere?And so I started just dabbling in other things and doing research and
You know, knowing that you don't have to leave the classroom and immediately have a new job that you love if you just take that time to follow your curiosities and whether that means having a conversation or again, looking some stuff up online.
There's so many communities you can join.We live in a time when you can find infinite Facebook communities, infinite podcasts.LinkedIn is a great place to talk to people and just pick their brains.
So we're really lucky in that aspect that there's no shortage of people to communicate with about a big decision like leaving the classroom.So I would just encourage them to start having conversations, start leaning into those curiosities.
Christine said something earlier today about you know, treat yourself like you would your students, like with a, with a new project, you know, you wouldn't give them the whole project all at once.
You would say, okay, we're going to start learning about trains.It's my pre-K brain.So we're going to start really small.What, what do you know about trains?What do you like about trains?
Um, and so treat it that way to treat your, be kind to yourself, the way you went to one of your students who's starting something new.
Yes.And as a teacher, you know, we're experts on learning, right?So I think applying that just like you're saying to our own learning is so awesome and so empowering.
Like we often have the structure already, but we don't think to apply it to our own lives.So I love just breaking it down and even thinking about like, Oh, I want to do this thing.What do I know already?Like I'm going to do a KWL chart for myself.
Yeah, and it's all learning, right?Totally, yeah.A lot of the work that we do with teachers, they end up taking back to the classroom to do with their own students in some way, shape, or form.It's so important to do those things to yourself and
Yeah.And just knowing it's, you know, a change like that is not going to happen overnight.It's taken years for us to get to this iteration of our business.
And even, you know, over the last year, we've grown and changed so much and that's important to give space for it because you have to marinate on it for a while.It's not just going to come to you.And yeah, the best things are working.
waiting for them always.Totally.
Yes.And trying things and not having them go right.You know, like I taught kindergarten, so I always am like, well, it's not like I give a kid a book and then they just know how to read it.Right.Like same thing for us.
My students had to like read the same word over and over again.And quote-unquote fail at it, right?Like first get the first sound and then be like, I don't know, and then get the second sound.And so it's just such a process.
And I think that acknowledging when you're doing something new, that it's new, like we don't know all the things.And so there are going to be a lot of ups and downs along the way, but that is actually how we learn.
Totally.We are an example of that.
In the early days of us, we went to so many different events and even events that were like, you know, this really doesn't sound like a perfect fit for us, but it's good to practice networking because as teachers, we don't have to network really often and have conversations with them.
And it was, especially after COVID, it was a skill that I really needed to practice.Just finding those spaces or opportunities and saying yes to stuff, like just being open to it.
Absolutely.Wonderful.Well, it's so nice to talk with both of you and to hear more about your journeys and the work that you're doing.Can you tell people how they can connect with you?
Sure.We're pretty active on Instagram.Um, I create a lot of stuff with Canva on there.Let's bring it back.You can find us through our podcast is making the green pod and our Instagram for our business is making a great project.So you can find both.
If you find one, you'll find the other.Um, and so we love to talk with people on there, send us a message.Um, our website is making the great project.com and you can find our podcast there, um, as well as,
lots of blogs and free resources for teachers who are looking to, you know, for support for our community, for help getting set up for success.
We mainly do a lot of work with like professional development for schools, but we do do one-on-one stuff with teachers.So you can find information on our website about that too.
Wonderful.And we'll put the links down below as well.Thanks again.
Thanks for having us.Bye.
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