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Episode: Trump ally Matt Gaetz paid for sex and drugs while in office, ethics report says

Author: BBC World Service
Duration: 00:29:19

Episode Shownotes

A long-awaited report into Matt Gaetz says the former congressman paid for sex and drugs while in office. Also: marches take place in Magdeburg, and a new government in France after days of political turmoil.

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_06
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

00:00:44 Speaker_15
This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Valerie Sanderson, and in the early hours of Tuesday the 24th of December, these are our main stories.

00:00:50 Speaker_15
In Washington, an ethics report has found that Donald Trump's top pick for Attorney General, Matt Gaetz, paid women, including a 17-year-old, for sex and drugs.

00:01:01 Speaker_15
In Magdeburg, marches take place as the German city mourns those killed in Friday's attack. A new government in France, after days of political turmoil.

00:01:12 Speaker_09
Also in this podcast... They're still celebrating, they're still happy, but they don't know what's coming. They don't know which kind of system it will be. Some of them, they think that they are heading to a kind of religious state.

00:01:26 Speaker_15
Our correspondent born and raised in Syria returns to his home in Damascus for the first time in 15 years. We begin in the United States, where a report into Donald Trump's original pick to become U.S.

00:01:43 Speaker_15
Attorney General, Matt Gaetz, has said that the former congressman broke multiple state laws while he was in office.

00:01:51 Speaker_15
In the much-awaited House Ethics Report, Mr. Gaetz is accused of paying a 17-year-old girl for sex and of buying and using illegal drugs. He denies any wrongdoing and withdrew from consideration as America's top law officer last month. A North America correspondent, Tom Bateman, told me more about the report.

00:02:09 Speaker_00
Well, a whole series of allegations, as you say, and that searing conclusion that it says there was substantial evidence that Matt Gaetz violated both House rules and other standards.

00:02:20 Speaker_00
It said prohibiting prostitution, statutory rape, illicit drug use, impermissible gifts, special favours or privileges, and it says obstruction of Congress.

00:02:39 Speaker_00
So a whole litany of findings here that Mr Gates has repeatedly categorically denied any wrongdoing and basically has been on X on social media most of today to say that this is a smear campaign by his political enemies. That's been the line he's taken throughout this.

00:03:03 Speaker_00
it will, I think, do more damage to him, but it also raises further questions about the judgment of Donald Trump, who originally picked him to be Attorney General, not just any position, but the position to oversee the justice system in the United States. Now, it was clear that these allegations were swirling at the time.

00:03:14 Speaker_00
Having said that, I think the damage it will do to Mr Trump's, you know, questions about his judgment is quite limited, given

00:03:22 Speaker_00
his deliberately competitive style and that he was elected it seemed by his supporters to you know take on the Washington system and to challenge what he had described as a weaponized legal system. But are there other nominations for key posts that might cause more controversy in the future?

00:03:34 Speaker_15
Well, there still are.

00:03:40 Speaker_00
And I think probably the leading contender there is Pete Hegseth, who is Donald Trump's nominee for defence secretary.

00:03:50 Speaker_00
Now, Mr Hegseth also has been facing a slew of accusations around sexually inappropriate behaviour, that he has had a drinking problem. And so whether or not he can still muster the support of Republicans in Congress, in the Senate, that he will need, to approve the nomination still remains to be seen.

00:04:10 Speaker_00
I mean, he'd been spending many days trying to gather support among senators, but I think that remains the outstanding controversial choice and one in which, you know, there will be a lot of attention on that process in the Senate when the confirmation hearings begin.

00:04:31 Speaker_00
And so, you know, once we get into the new year, I think it will bring a new spotlight onto some more of Mr Trump's choices. Tom Bateman in Washington.

00:04:38 Speaker_15
Protesters have taken to the streets in Germany where a car drove into a Christmas market last Friday, killing five people and injuring more than 200 others.

00:04:49 Speaker_15
More information is coming to light about the 50-year-old Saudi refugee who allegedly carried out the attack. Our reporter Bethany Bell sent us this report from Magdeburg.

00:05:02 Speaker_13
Supporters of the anti-immigrant AFD party are out in force in Magdeburg. They gathered in the cathedral square. On Saturday, a church service for victims of the attack was held here, but now it's political and the anger is palpable. Officials have said the suspect was an untypical attacker.

00:05:20 Speaker_13
Critical of Islam, he even voiced support himself on social media for the AFD. Tonight, the AFD rejected that as propaganda.

00:05:35 Speaker_13
Away from the protests, many people in Magdeburg are still struggling to come to terms with what happened. Eidwig told me her granddaughter was at the market when it was attacked.

00:05:48 Speaker_17
She didn't answer for two hours and my husband and I were just about to search the hospitals, but then, thank God, she got in touch. She was really in shock. It's just awful.

00:06:00 Speaker_17
She's feeling a bit better now, but we had to go back to the hospital yesterday because she kept having tremors. Around the market, crowds gathered to form a chain of lights.

00:06:06 Speaker_13
This event was organized by an anti-racism group as a counter-demonstration to the AFD. They say migrants are being scapegoated. At least 70 people remain in hospital, some with severe injuries.

00:06:19 Speaker_13
It's a sad Christmas for them, their families and friends. Bethany Bell.

00:06:29 Speaker_15
The President of France, Emmanuel Macron, has named the country's new cabinet ten days after the appointment of Prime Minister François Beyrou.

00:06:39 Speaker_15
The country has been in a state of political turmoil since the elections in June, which resulted in a hung parliament and was followed by the collapse of Michel Barnier's government. A correspondent in Paris, Hughes Caulfield, gave me the details.

00:06:51 Speaker_21
It's a government which François Barreiro hopes will be able to do what Barnier couldn't do, which is get a budget passed, get any kind of legislation passed through this hung parliament.

00:07:00 Speaker_21
To do that, he needed to have a cabinet with as many different faces, different political complexions in there as possible. It turns out he hasn't been able to reach out very far.

00:07:10 Speaker_21
He's got the centrists of the Macron crowd and the centre-right, much as Barnier did, but what he hasn't been able to do really is reach out to the left in any significant way.

00:07:20 Speaker_21
So we have a number of faces who were there before, such as Bruno Rutaio from the right at Interior, the Defence Minister Bastian Locornio again on the right, and the newcomers, well they're very important figures, Elizabeth Bourne, Manuel Valls, two former Prime Ministers, two people who identify with the left, they would say they're on the left, but they're kind of personae non gratae with the actual left, today's left, so they're not going to really be able to build bridges. What's been reaction

00:07:56 Speaker_21
a bit like with Barnier, you know, keeping his powder dry, watching and waiting.

00:08:09 Speaker_21
They scored a bit of a victory because one initial plan had been to get a man called Xavier Bertrand in, a very senior figure on the right, but he's hated by the National Rally Party and they kind of forced Beirut not to include Xavier Bertrand. So that's seen as how the far right still certainly can apply pressure when it wants to. Do you think it draws a line though under the political turmoil there's been in France?

00:08:23 Speaker_15
Not at all, not at all. I think it's a thread.

00:08:31 Speaker_21
It may see us through a few weeks, but there's absolutely nothing to suggest that this government would be able to do what Barnier's government was not able to do, which is to get through a budget, a budget which will require tough, tough decisions about taxes and spending and cutting state output and so on. And that is an absolute no-no for the left, who can bring it down, and indeed for the far right.

00:08:47 Speaker_21
And what's the impact of all this on President Macron?

00:08:57 Speaker_21
obviously negative, you know, very obviously he's someone who's devoting his time now to international affairs. His standing is at rock bottom, really, in France.

00:09:08 Speaker_21
He always has a core of supporters in the urban, kind of liberal elites, if you like, people who've seen him, the hope, the one hope for France, which has now faded. So he's still got a core of support there in the cities, but at the rest of the country, his name is mud, I would say.

00:09:18 Speaker_21
Hughes Coffield in France.

00:09:24 Speaker_15
Syria's civil war devastated large parts of the country, but one area of Damascus in particular became synonymous with the suffering of the Syrian people.

00:09:36 Speaker_15
Yarmouk refugee camp was the de facto capital of the Palestinian refugee diaspora in the Middle East, housing around 150,000.

00:09:44 Speaker_15
But it was eventually destroyed, having endured a siege and a brutal fight between the Syrian government, rebel fighters, and then occupation by Islamic State.

00:09:54 Speaker_15
Now, in the days since President Assad's regime collapsed, people have begun returning, including the BBC Arabic's Feris Kalani. He was forced to leave Syria because of his work for the BBC. He made an emotional return to Yarmouk for the first time in 15 years.

00:10:15 Speaker_08
I lived in this house almost 25 years. I think there's not even a piece of paper. There was a big library, and now it's all looted. The doors, I don't know how to feel. So sad.

00:10:35 Speaker_15
Fares Ghilani has just returned to London, and I spoke to him about his time in Syria.

00:10:40 Speaker_09
I crossed from Lebanon to Syria a few hours after Bashar Assad fled the country, and to the heart of Damascus, where thousands of people were gathering there, happily celebrating.

00:10:52 Speaker_09
First impression, it was really shocking to see the streets without the intelligence, because as you know, it's a security state. No one is asking you for anything. I couldn't even dream to see it this way.

00:11:07 Speaker_15
And Faraz, when you went back to the camp or the area of the camp where you were brought up, the Yarmouk refugee camp, what was it like? It was really emotional.

00:11:16 Speaker_09
It's that place where I was born, grew up, friends, everything, relatives, all my childhood. When I stand at the very front of the Yarmouk, I see some kids from the camp itself. I start cleaning the streets, and they just give me like a very positive feeling.

00:11:28 Speaker_09
The coming days are better. But the more you get into the streets and see the destruction, it was really shocking.

00:11:43 Speaker_09
It happened at the heart of the heart of the camp, where no fighting was going on. It was done by barrel bombs. which destroyed indiscriminately everything. So it was hurtful. It was shocking. And remembering this now, when I was there, it makes me very sad.

00:12:03 Speaker_15
What was it like living there under what was effectively a police state under the Assad regime? It's honestly, it's a disaster. You can't do anything.

00:12:12 Speaker_09
You can't breathe. You can't. Even a school, an elementary school, you feel it. You feel them everywhere counting your words.

00:12:24 Speaker_09
We have lots of our family imprisoned by Assad regime from my mother's family or my father's family. My father used to work as a journalist for a long time. It's a horror. The wars actually started after 2011. They start killing people, they start bombing them.

00:12:38 Speaker_09
Thousands of people disappeared in prisons and now we don't know anything about them after the regime collapse.

00:12:47 Speaker_15
And what did people say to you about what they're hoping for now in Syria?

00:12:54 Speaker_09
I think it's one of the most difficult questions for the Syrians. They're still celebrating, they're still happy, but they don't know what's coming. Because they know that, you know, the army collapsed, disappeared at night. They don't know which kind of system it will be.

00:13:08 Speaker_09
Some of them, they think that they are heading to a kind of religious state because of the new rulers are well known of being Islamists.

00:13:20 Speaker_09
But they don't mind this because what they've seen since that moment is still by far better than where they were under the Assad, especially in the last 13 years of fighting and bombing Ferris Kalani.

00:13:31 Speaker_15
A woman has died after being set on fire on a subway train in the New York City borough of Brooklyn. A man has been arrested in connection with the incident, but police are still working to establish a possible motive. Sarah Ruberg is covering the story for the New York Times and spoke to Andrew Peach.

00:13:49 Speaker_22
Early Sunday morning, just before 7.30, a man, which seemingly had no interaction with this woman, approached her. And she seemed to be motionless on the end of the subway train. And he lit her clothes on fire.

00:14:03 Speaker_22
And police, who were patrolling upstairs, came down after seeing and smelling some smoke. And they found her on fire. And the woman, unfortunately, died from her injuries. Right, so it was just too late by the time they got there, even though they were close at hand.

00:14:14 Speaker_02
And what do we know about the man who's been arrested? We know very little about the man so far. They have not publicly identified him.

00:14:21 Speaker_22
But we do know that he immigrated to the US from Guatemala in 2018. Under what circumstances, it's not clear yet. What sort of reaction has there been in the city?

00:14:35 Speaker_02
Because it's one of those stories where you hear it and you think, that could have been me. Sure, yeah.

00:14:42 Speaker_22
I mean, whenever there's random acts of violence, there's certainly a lot of outcry, especially from local leaders.

00:14:49 Speaker_22
It's important to keep in mind that violent crime on the subway has been down in recent years since the pandemic, even as ridership has gone up. But still, random acts of violence, especially something as tragic and awful as this, definitely can frighten some people the following day.

00:15:08 Speaker_02
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that, because my sense from talking to people in New York is that some are pretty scared about the subway and think of it as being a dangerous place, and yet the statistics tell a totally different story that actually is becoming safer and safer.

00:15:22 Speaker_22
People's perception, it can be, you know, influenced by a lot of different things, whether, you know, there's riders who are acting erratically or something of that nature. It can make people feel unsafe.

00:15:34 Speaker_22
But the stats show us that violent crime is down overall and the subway is actually comparatively safe to other, you know, public transit systems around the world. Sarah Rueberg from the New York Times.

00:15:45 Speaker_15
Cutting up Norway's car revolution with more electric vehicles on the road than those fuelled by petrol. I don't think a green mindset has much to do with it.

00:15:56 Speaker_25
It has to do with strong policies over time, people understanding gradually that this works. There's not really any reason why not other countries can copy Norway.

00:16:18 Speaker_03
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00:16:27 Speaker_03
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00:16:40 Speaker_03
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00:17:01 Speaker_26
In Tibet, hundreds of people protesting against a Chinese dam were rounded up in a harsh crackdown earlier this year, with some beaten and seriously injured, according to a BBC investigation. Our Asia-Pacific regional editor Charles Haviland gave me the details.

00:17:19 Speaker_26
The bone of contention that prompted this movement of protest was a dam.

00:17:29 Speaker_26
Of course, dams, huge infrastructure projects are commonplace in China, and they are some of the biggest dams in the world. This one is a dam which is under planning. It's called the Gangtuo Dam. It's in Tibet, the Western Chinese province of Tibet, contentiously occupied by the Chinese since the 1950s.

00:18:01 Speaker_26
It seems that this dam, once it forms, a reservoir will submerge places of great cultural significance, including a 700-year-old Tibetan Buddhist monastery, known for its Buddhist murals, and would also displace thousands of people, some of whom I believe have already been moved. So in contrast to many infrastructural projects in China, this one prompted protest by people who felt enough is enough and we must appeal to try and stop this happening, or at least stop the project being so big.

00:18:16 Speaker_26
And tell us what happened to them when they did demonstrate. The demonstrations took place in Sichuan province, neighbouring Tibet, in a part of western Sichuan which is ethnically Tibetan populated and indeed, I believe, governed.

00:18:28 Speaker_26
The BBC has investigated and has found

00:18:43 Speaker_26
what it considers to be well-verified footage and pictures that show people demonstrating in their hundreds, including monks and people begging for mercy, sometimes kneeling in the street.

00:18:55 Speaker_26
One source told the BBC in its investigations that more than 20 of his relatives and friends were detained, including an elderly person over 70, that some people sustained injuries all over their body, including in their ribs and kidneys, and were kicked and hit.

00:19:01 Speaker_26
And indeed the UN has got involved via a special rapporteur who's also said that some of the demonstrators were beaten and severely injured. Now this happened some months ago, do we know what's happened to these people since?

00:19:14 Speaker_26
It happened in February and what happened in the days after

00:19:28 Speaker_26
these demonstrations, that the authorities tightened the restrictions still further, making it difficult for anyone to verify the story, particularly given, for instance, that journalists can't freely travel to Tibet.

00:19:38 Speaker_26
So some Tibetans living in exile had tried to contact their family members and maybe had been able to do so at the time, but then just stopped being able to contact them. So, it has been harder and harder for information to actually get out. What is quite interesting is that the Chinese embassy in London was asked for comment on this.

00:19:50 Speaker_26
It didn't confirm or deny that the crackdown has taken place. It's perhaps not surprising that it came out with a statement saying that anyone is allowed to demonstrate and express their concerns.

00:20:04 Speaker_26
about what's going on in China even though that is patently not the case.

00:20:10 Speaker_15
They've also, separately the Chinese authorities, have said that people were given due warning of what the effects of this dam would be, were properly briefed about it and were given choices about where to move to etc. These statements are quite contentious and their veracity can't be proved.

00:20:33 Speaker_07
Allegations that the actor Justin Baldoni waged a smear campaign against Blake Lively, his co-star in the film It Ends With Us, have shed light on the lengths some celebrities will apparently go to in order to protect their reputations and even damage those of others.

00:20:44 Speaker_07
The accusation was made in a legal complaint. A lawyer for Baldoni called the claims false. Neda Tofic reports.

00:20:53 Speaker_16
Tension between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni overshadowed the promotion of the film, It Ends With Us, over the summer.

00:21:00 Speaker_07
On the red carpet, they never appeared together, and their creative differences were apparent. But it's now clear that drama on set went much deeper.

00:21:12 Speaker_07
She also claims Baldoni added improvised sexual content and nude scenes to the film.

00:21:19 Speaker_07
In the bombshell legal complaint, Lively says Baldoni hired a PR crisis firm to launch a smear campaign against her after she accused him of inappropriate behavior and sexual harassment on set.

00:21:30 Speaker_07
In one set of alleged text messages, one of the PR executives said they could bury anyone.

00:21:37 Speaker_07
It happened, Blake Lively claims, after she made a list of 30 alleged demands to Baldoni and a producer during a January meeting to ensure they could continue to produce the film.

00:21:46 Speaker_12
In a statement, the actor said she hoped to pull back the curtain on sinister retaliatory tactics to harm people who speak up. The New York Times journalist Megan Toohey, whose investigation on Harvey Weinstein helped launch the MeToo movement, has dug into the claims against Baldoni.

00:22:03 Speaker_07
You know, this really raises the question of

00:22:15 Speaker_07
who else is engaged in sort of paid for hire online manipulation on behalf of, you know, powerful clients to manipulate public opinion and do damage to people's reputations.

00:22:23 Speaker_15
Justin Baldoni's legal team said the allegations were categorically false, intentionally salacious, with an intent to publicly hurt. But the reaction in a post-MeToo-era Hollywood has been swift.

00:22:36 Speaker_15
His talent agency dropped him, and some of her co-stars and A-list friends have come out to support her. An electric car revolution has been underway in Norway for years. There are now more electric passenger cars on the country's roads than petrol vehicles.

00:22:55 Speaker_19
In November, 94% of all new car sales were electric. Norway, a major oil producer, has set a goal to phase out the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2025. And with that date just around the corner, will it get there? And what lessons are there for other countries? Adrian Murray in Oslo found out more.

00:23:13 Speaker_19
Here on the streets of Oslo, electric cars aren't a novelty, they're the norm. And every car passing by with an E on its license plate is an EV. There are now more battery-powered vehicles on Norway's roads than petrol cars.

00:23:31 Speaker_19
And out of all new car sales, nine out of ten were electric.

00:23:40 Speaker_20
Tax breaks for low-emission vehicles and other perks like free parking, discounted tolls and access to bus lanes have all helped drive Norway's EV revolution.

00:23:51 Speaker_18
And so for many here, buying a plug-in makes economic sense. Stale Føen bought his first EV 15 months ago. With all the incentives we have in Norway, it was quite important to us money-wise.

00:24:07 Speaker_19
We figured out that for our day-to-day needs, an EV would be perfect. Marita Eggersbo was an early adopter.

00:24:12 Speaker_24
I'm one of the very first owners of a Tesla. I really wanted a car that didn't pollute. It gave me a better conscience of driving.

00:24:20 Speaker_19
Of course, we have the SUVs. We have the station wagons, as you can see here also.

00:24:25 Speaker_24
This family-run dealership has been importing VWs for over 75 years.

00:24:34 Speaker_19
We're standing in a dealership in the heart of Oslo with only e-cars from Volkswagen. I don't think you find that anywhere else in the world. Showing me around is Ulf Tore Heknebu, the CEO of Harald A. Muller.

00:24:44 Speaker_19
It should be an easy choice for the customers. The cars are getting so nice, long range, higher charging speed. It's very hard to go back.

00:24:52 Speaker_04
Norway hopes to be the first country to completely phase out the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles. A non-binding goal was set for 2025. With that date in sight, I asked Norway's Secretary of State for Transport, Cecilia Niebuhr-Krolund, if that goal was still alive.

00:25:12 Speaker_19
We are closing up on the target and I think that we will reach that goal and I think that also the transition is already made. Our goal to see that it's always a good viable choice to use the zero emission choice.

00:25:31 Speaker_19
Worldwide, electric cars make up a fifth of all vehicles sold, well up from only 2% five years ago.

00:25:39 Speaker_25
China, by far the biggest market, has seen sales soar. But in the US and Europe, as well as the UK, demand has recently hit a speed bump. Please jump in.

00:25:49 Speaker_25
Christina Pu, the Secretary General of the Norwegian EV Association, took me for a spin.

00:26:00 Speaker_19
When they do European surveys, Norwegians are further down the list when it comes to being worried about climate change, for example. I don't think a green mindset has much to do with it. It has to do with strong policies over time, people understanding gradually that this works.

00:26:12 Speaker_23
There's not really any reason why not other countries can copy Norway. With a million diesel models still on the road and a big used car market here, there's still work to be done.

00:26:25 Speaker_19
Kel Werner Johansen is from the Norwegian Centre for Transport Research.

00:26:39 Speaker_19
I think the government accept that a few new diesel or hybrid cars will still be on the market, but I don't know anybody who wants to buy a diesel car these days. However, the shift to EVs has had other knock-on effects. For the government, it has led to reduced tax revenue.

00:26:51 Speaker_15
We have cheap electric energy. And some people have more cars than they would have otherwise.

00:27:02 Speaker_15
As sales of new fossil fuel cars tail off, Norway's electric revolution is shifting up a gear. But the journey to zero may take just a little longer. Adrian Murray reporting from Oslo.

00:27:16 Speaker_14
And staying in Northern Europe this time of year, many people flock to Santa's grottoes to meet, of course, Father Christmas. But in the Finnish town of Rovaniemi in Arctic Lapland, Santa's home has a dual purpose, doubling as a bomb shelter. Stephanie Zachrisson takes up the story.

00:27:41 Speaker_05
Every year around 100,000 visitors take a trip down to the underground wonderland that sits right on the Arctic Circle to see the snow, Christmas trees, the elf school and of course Santa. But most of them might not realise that this place, full of holiday cheer, could be turned into a protective shelter within hours.

00:27:53 Speaker_14
Kenneth Toomey is the CEO of Santa Park. Most of them don't. Some of the locals, of course, know about the use, the normal use of this cavern. But our guests, they are here to enjoy themselves and they have other things on their minds."

00:28:10 Speaker_14
The shelter, which is carved around 50 metres into a hill, is in fact built to withstand bombings or a chemical or nuclear attack and could house 3,600 people.

00:28:25 Speaker_14
It is part of a network of around 50,000 similar shelters spread across Finland.

00:28:32 Speaker_14
The Nordic nation has, for a long time, made sure a majority of its population could be protected in case of emergency. With a 1,300-kilometre-long land border with Russia, the recent NATO member is closely following its neighbours' actions.

00:28:45 Speaker_14
But being prepared is also part of Finnish history. And it influences other parts of society too.

00:28:49 Speaker_01
When other countries were scrambling for face masks and other protective equipment when Covid-19 started spreading, Finland already had stockpiles, although some items had passed their use-by date.

00:29:04 Speaker_14
Tomi Rask has been a civil defence instructor for more than 25 years. Finland has always been preparing for war.

00:29:18 Speaker_14
Even since the 1917 independence, we have been training and we have been preparing for war and for effects against civilians, against citizens. Since the 1940s there has been a legal obligation to build one shelter under every apartment block. The larger ones are used as sports halls or parking garages.

00:29:31 Speaker_05
Or, in the case of Rovaniemi, a Santa's cave. It has camping beds, first aid kits and a separate well provides water, although people would need to bring their own food.

00:29:46 Speaker_14
Kenneth Torme says Santa would be evicted in case of an emergency. The theme would be built down and the facility would be taken into shelter use right away.

00:29:55 Speaker_15
So basically everything has been planned so that it is really fast to convert into a shelter. While most of the Santa themed items would have to be cleared out, some toys from the gift shop would be kept for children seeking safety there.

00:30:11 Speaker_15
Stephanie Zachrisson. And that's it from us for now, but there'll be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later.

00:30:29 Speaker_11
If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, send us an email. The address is globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk. This edition was produced by Harry Bly and it was mixed by Caroline Driscoll. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Valerie Sanderson. Until next time, bye-bye.

00:30:37 Speaker_06
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