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Episode: The Third House in Astrology

Author: Chris Brennan
Duration: 07:56:33

Episode Shownotes

In episode 465 astrologers Chris Brennan and Leisa Schaim do a deep dive into the meaning of the third house in astrology, with a comprehensive workshop analyzing over 100 birth charts of notable figures, revealing surprising insights into how the third house shaped their lives. The third house is associated

with topics such as siblings, extended family, short distance travel, early education, and communication. We open the episode by talking about the significations of the third house, and then afterwards the bulk of the episode is divided into three main parts: The Ruler of the Ascendant in the third house The ruler of the third house in each of the 12 houses Each of the planets in the third house After that we have some concluding remarks and then wrap up our deep dive into the third house! This is essentially three separate episodes, but we decided to release it as one long episode because then you can really see the totality of what the third house means by looking at all of the different ways it has manifested in people's lives. 3rd House Research Notes Booklet Dive deeper into the third house with our exclusive 75-page research notes booklet! This PDF includes a handy episode guide plus bonus content not featured in the episode. Become a patron or purchase it for $10 at Patreon.com/AstrologyPodcast Timestamps 00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:56 3rd house significations 00:34:55 Preface to example charts 00:43:02 Ruler of the Ascendant in 3rd House 00:43:45 Siblings 01:11:05 Communication 01:51:45 Orators 01:57:27 Singers 02:03:56 Travel, movement, mobility 02:20:03 Neighbors, community 02:25:36 Research Notes Booklet 02:29:22 Ruler of 3rd in the 12 Houses 02:29:52 Ruler of 3rd in 1st House 02:45:40 2nd House 02:56:02 3rd House 02:57:48 4th House 03:08:33 5th House 03:16:28 6th House 03:29:49 7th House 03:36:20 8th House 03:51:10 9th House 04:11:40 10th House 04:47:39 11th House 05:03:51 12th House 05:14:46 Planets in the 3rd house 05:15:15 Sun 05:33:10 Moon 05:57:13 Mercury 06:03:45 Venus 06:12:00 Mars 06:35:43 Jupiter 06:43:38 Saturn 06:57:42 Uranus 07:05:09 Neptune 07:18:13 Pluto 07:36:25 Concluding remarks 07:53:16 End cards Watch the Video Version of This Episode Watch the video version of this episode on the third house on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3zqxEr2S24 - Transcript A full transcript of this episode is available: Episode 465 transcript Listen to the Audio Version of This Episode Listen to the audio version of this episode or download it as an MP3:

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_01
Hey, my name is Chris Brennan, and you're listening to The Astrology Podcast.

00:00:03 Speaker_01
Joining me today is astrologer Lisa Scheim, and we're going to be doing a deep dive exploration of the meaning of the third house in astrology and talking about the significations of the third house and going through dozens and dozens of celebrity example charts in order to show you what the third house actually means in practice and how to work with it.

00:00:25 Speaker_01
So hey, Lisa, thanks for joining me.

00:00:26 Speaker_05
Hey, Chris, glad to be here.

00:00:28 Speaker_01
Yeah, so we have been doing an intense few-week bit of chart research in preparation for this episode. We have over 100 example charts. We actually have quite a bit that we're going to get through today.

00:00:39 Speaker_01
It's been very ambitious, but we kind of set the bar high with our previous episode, I think.

00:00:45 Speaker_05
Yeah, absolutely. It was very comprehensive, so I think we made it somehow even more comprehensive this time.

00:00:53 Speaker_01
Yeah, I think we estimated that we had 70-ish charts last time, and this time we have well over 100 charts. So we will see how that goes and how long it takes us.

00:01:04 Speaker_01
In terms of the structure of this episode, we're going to spend a little bit of time at the beginning talking about the significations of the 3rd house in general.

00:01:13 Speaker_01
Then we're going to jump right into looking at example charts of the placement of the ruler of the Ascendant in the 3rd house.

00:01:21 Speaker_01
and showing how that's worked out in the lives of different celebrity birth charts in order to give you a real demonstration of what the 3rd house actually means in people's lives.

00:01:31 Speaker_01
Then after the ruler of the Ascendant section, we're going to jump into a larger section on the rulers of the different houses either in the 3rd house or the ruler of the 3rd house itself in each of the 12 houses, so that we go through almost comprehensively through different combinations of

00:01:48 Speaker_01
what happens when the ruler of the 3rd house is in the 7th house or the 10th house or what have you.

00:01:55 Speaker_01
Then finally, in the very last section, we're going to go into the planets and we're going to look at what it means when each of the planets is placed in the 3rd house with two to three celebrity example charts per planet.

00:02:07 Speaker_01
So if we're still alive by the end of that, then we're going to do a little conclusion and sort of wrap things up. But I think we have a pretty ambitious day ahead of us.

00:02:17 Speaker_05
We do, we do. So yeah, it's a little daunting, but it's also exciting. We have lots of really cool charts to show you and yeah, just different combinations and how they work out in real life. So.

00:02:31 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure.

00:02:31 Speaker_01
And yeah, this is something that otherwise could be like a book or be like a full weekend workshop, but we're going to see what we can do about sort of condensing it down into a singular episode that's like a definitive take on this topic so that it'll be like the one time I ever talk about the third house and then I'll never have to talk about it again because I will dealt with it so comprehensively.

00:02:56 Speaker_01
All right, so let's jump right into it. Let's jump into the significations of the third house and talk about the astronomy of it and what it means. So here's our usual diagram that shows the basic setup of the 12 houses.

00:03:12 Speaker_01
We see the third house there in the bottom left. So in terms of the significations, the meaning of the 3rd house, and the astronomy of it, in whole sign houses, the 3rd house is the 3rd sign.

00:03:26 Speaker_01
It's the 3rd sign of the zodiac relative to the rising sign. So whatever your rising sign is, you just count three signs counterclockwise, and that will tell you where the 3rd house is located in your chart.

00:03:40 Speaker_01
In quadrant house systems, the third house is the sector that is declining from the degree of the IC towards the bottom of the chart and just to the left of the IC.

00:03:52 Speaker_01
So that's where it's sort of located in a lot of charts that cast different quadrant house systems.

00:03:59 Speaker_01
So in terms of other meanings of the third house, in terms of just the core significations really briefly, the primary significations of the third house is that it signifies siblings, relatives, neighbors, local travel, communication, and early education.

00:04:18 Speaker_01
So the third house is also said to be the house where the Moon rejoices, or it's the place of the joy of the Moon. And some of the significations of the third house are actually derived from the Moon.

00:04:30 Speaker_01
And one of the things for this reason is that in ancient Greco-Roman astrology, they called the third house the house of the goddess.

00:04:39 Speaker_01
So in Hellenistic astrology, sometimes instead of referring to it as the 3rd house, they'll just say, when such and such planet is in the place of the goddess, and they'll be referring to the 3rd house because that's its official name.

00:04:53 Speaker_01
And it's the house of goddess, which is opposite to the 9th house, which is the house associated with the Sun and is said to be the house of God.

00:05:02 Speaker_01
The third house is one of the fortunate houses because it's sextile with the Ascendant, so it has a favorable aspect to the Ascendant. Even though it's weaker through a sextile, it's still said to be one of the more positive or auspicious houses.

00:05:18 Speaker_01
Finally, it's a cadent house that's falling away from the fourth house, and it's the start of a new what we call angular triad or a new sequence of houses, which is the third, fourth, and fifth, which form kind of like a unit or what we might call like an angular triad.

00:05:38 Speaker_01
this sequence of three houses is associated in ancient astrology with the element of Earth because it's down at the very bottom of the chart, which is, from our perspective, under the horizon.

00:05:51 Speaker_01
So the 4th house then is kind of like the roots of your chart, with the roots down with the 3rd, 4th, and 5th houses.

00:05:59 Speaker_01
And then you can imagine the top of the tree being up towards the 10th house at the very top of the chart, which is the most public area.

00:06:10 Speaker_01
So this sets up kind of a dynamic of the bottom of the chart is like your private life, the top of the chart is like your public life, the first house in that sector of three houses relates to self, and the seventh house in that set of three houses relates to the other.

00:06:27 Speaker_01
So everything then is relative to especially those four angular houses where, for example, at the fourth house, that's sort of the starting point, and that's the foundation. The fourth house represents your home, your parents, and your private life.

00:06:44 Speaker_01
The fifth house, which comes up or follows after the fourth house, represents your children. So it's like the continuation of your family lineage. And the third house is falling away from or extending away from the fourth house.

00:07:01 Speaker_01
So for that reason, it represents your extended family, which can be like siblings, but also aunts, uncles, cousins, and other things like that. All right, so let's talk about that as our first set of significations.

00:07:19 Speaker_01
One of the primary significations of the third house is that it signifies siblings. So that can mean brothers, sisters, but also it can mean half-siblings or step-siblings.

00:07:30 Speaker_01
It's basically just the people in your life that have that relationship to you essentially, right?

00:07:36 Speaker_05
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So siblings are people who are like siblings. Cousins also go in there. I often like to say about the third house, it's like siblings, cousins and other assorted relatives.

00:07:48 Speaker_05
It's kind of like the jumble of your family that's not your parents.

00:07:52 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. And relatives is one of the ancient significations already in the 2nd century that Vettius Valens gives. So we're talking about your extended family and your kin.

00:08:03 Speaker_01
So that includes siblings, but it's also people that are outside of that as an extension of the fourth house, which is the core family, which is your parents.

00:08:16 Speaker_04
Right.

00:08:18 Speaker_01
This can also then extend to things like aunts, uncles, cousins, nephews, nieces. There's some people that have siblings or have a large extended family, and then there's other people that don't have siblings or don't have a large extended family.

00:08:37 Speaker_01
In terms of some of these people, this area is not always super important in some people's life, but for other people, especially if they have a lot of placements there, it can be very important.

00:08:49 Speaker_01
So that's one of the reasons why, as we'll see in the example charts, this can be a crucial area.

00:08:54 Speaker_01
And one of the things that's interesting about it is it's the first area where you encounter other people, at least in the sequence of the houses, because the first house that we dealt with first is really about you or your sense of self and your identity and existence.

00:09:08 Speaker_01
the second house is about your finances. But then when you get to the third house, suddenly we're dealing with other people in the native's life that are around them.

00:09:17 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm. Right. And you might think like, oh, well, why are half siblings important in my chart? But this is sort of a traditional astrology view of the chart, which has to represent kind of everyone and everything in your life, not just you.

00:09:30 Speaker_05
And so this is where those people go in your in your chart. And yeah, for some people, that's not really you might think like, why is this very important? But if it's not very important for you, you probably don't have

00:09:44 Speaker_05
really major things going on with the third house, whereas for someone else, this is like, oh, yeah, this is really central. I've talked with clients who are like, oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:09:51 Speaker_05
I have a huge extended family and they're always over every weekend, that kind of thing.

00:09:56 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. So another area that sometimes there's some debate about this, whether grandparents go here or in the fourth house. I know we were having some disagreement about it. It's not really settled, but it's interesting.

00:10:08 Speaker_01
I do have one chart example where somebody was raised by their grandmother and they had the ruler, the Ascendant, and the third. So I feel like sometimes grandparents, because the third also sort of comes before the 4th.

00:10:21 Speaker_01
To me, that's part of the reason why I think, at least symbolically, the 3rd may relate to grandparents as extended family, because then you actually get an interesting sequence of the family lineage, which would be 3rd house grandparents, 4th house parents, 5th house children, and the continuation of your lineage in some way.

00:10:42 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm, for sure. Definitely symbolically, it would make sense that way. I feel like I've seen a couple like that. It'd be interesting to do like a huge study on it.

00:10:50 Speaker_05
I wanted to say a funny interjection about siblings, which was as I was getting ready today, I got a little delayed because my sister called and needed to talk to me very, you know, immediately about something important.

00:11:01 Speaker_05
And I just thought it was a funny invocation of the topic today.

00:11:05 Speaker_01
Nice, nice. Yeah, that happens. All right, so let's move on to the next topic. So the next major topic for the 3rd house is your neighbors and your neighborhood.

00:11:19 Speaker_01
So it's like if the 4th house itself is your home and your living situation, the 3rd house is everything that's around that. So it's places that are around your home and around your local city, essentially.

00:11:34 Speaker_05
Right. So it's kind of like the fourth house is your actual home and then extending from that, kind of like we extended from the immediate family or your parents out towards extended family.

00:11:44 Speaker_05
This is like the extension of your home into your neighborhood, like your immediate neighborhood or your city, things like that are in walking distance from your home, things like that. So especially local community goes there.

00:11:57 Speaker_01
Yeah, so community is a really important and central topic for the third house, and that's something that we're going to see at different points during the course of our example charts.

00:12:08 Speaker_01
For some people, neighbors is a positive topic where it's like they have good neighbors that they get along with, and they have positive placements in their chart there.

00:12:18 Speaker_01
But for other people, the topic of neighbors, if they have difficult placements there,

00:12:23 Speaker_01
they may have bad luck with neighbors or they just may happen to find themselves in a situation where a neighbor gets in a fight with them or something like that during a bad transit.

00:12:33 Speaker_01
It's actually really funny how that can actually work out very literally in the chart if you're paying attention to your transits.

00:12:40 Speaker_05
LS Absolutely.

00:12:41 Speaker_05
And if you think like neighbors is not an important astrological topic, then you probably haven't had like a really bad, you know, third house transit or bad, you know, third house or ruler of the third placement because then it really does stand out to you as an important part of your life.

00:12:56 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, for sure. We've had some bad neighbors in the past. I had a neighbor where they got like a dog once and it would bark like over my head constantly with these super thin walls starting at like 4 or 5 a.m.

00:13:13 Speaker_01
each day when the neighbors left for work and it was just it was just torture and it was really I think it was like a Mars transit at the time of Mars retrograde or something.

00:13:21 Speaker_05
Yeah, it was really quite strikingly literal like that.

00:13:25 Speaker_01
All right, so community more broadly, your immediate environment. You had pointed out that there's actually a concept called third places in sociology that weirdly is very similar, connected to this.

00:13:40 Speaker_05
Yeah, and it's funny that it even has third in the word, right, for the third house. Yeah, third places, it's a sociological concept. Basically, places that are not your home or work that people go to gather in local community.

00:13:52 Speaker_05
So that can be things like public libraries, bars, coffee shops, public parks, things of that nature. And the argument around that is it's actually an incredibly vital piece of people's well-being to have local community gathering places.

00:14:09 Speaker_05
So, it fits perfectly here in the third house.

00:14:13 Speaker_01
Yeah, that makes sense. Even like churches, for example, would be like a local community gathering place. All right, so another topic that comes up, Vettius Valens in the 2nd century mentions authority in connection with the 3rd house.

00:14:29 Speaker_01
During the course of our research, one of the ways that this came through is realizing that it can have to do with local governance. Just as the 3rd house is about community.

00:14:41 Speaker_01
If you have prominent placements there in your chart, there's some people that actually get involved in their community or even get involved in the local government and sometimes can rise to positions of prominence in terms of that.

00:14:56 Speaker_01
We'll have one example later of Like Harvey Milk, for example, was one of your examples who did local government governance in San Francisco. Or we have another example of somebody that became the mayor of a city, for example.

00:15:12 Speaker_05
Yeah, we have a mayor. Yeah, so it can be like city governance. It can be neighborhood-oriented organizations. It can be even HOAs, because that's like a governance of your neighbors.

00:15:25 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. So, and then that also leads to the topic of community organizing.

00:15:30 Speaker_01
So in a number of our chart examples that we'll get to, we'll see that the topic of community organizing can sometimes be important because it involves working with the local neighborhood and the local community.

00:15:41 Speaker_04
Definitely.

00:15:42 Speaker_01
All right, so another signification that comes up, and this is more emphasized in the ancient Hellenistic texts where some of the earliest authors also associate the 3rd house with friendship. And in more recent times, the 11th house really

00:16:00 Speaker_01
for quite a long time has become the primary house of friends, and that's typically where astrologers look to.

00:16:07 Speaker_01
But we have seen this as being useful, actually, and especially to the extent that it relates, I think, primarily to your early childhood friends, which oftentimes are the people that you grew up with in your neighborhood.

00:16:23 Speaker_01
So there'll be the kids that you grew up around your block that you became friends with as a result of especially the proximity to them, and then that becomes some of your earliest socialization.

00:16:35 Speaker_01
So it's the kids you grew up with to some extent, and then sometimes when people move away from home, they'll come back to visit occasionally. And one of the things you do is reconnect with your old friends who still live in your hometown.

00:16:49 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm, right. I'm very much used to thinking about the 11th house as friends, or even the 7th house as best friends. But I was very persuaded by some of the chart examples that we went through in preparing for this.

00:17:01 Speaker_05
And I think it's because it's more important for some people than others, right? Where if they have a concentration around the 3rd house or the 3rd house ruler, it's like the people they grew up with or their earlier friends,

00:17:15 Speaker_05
elementary school or even high school actually are really important and they do fall there symbolically.

00:17:21 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, for sure. So that's a non-typical signification in modern times.

00:17:29 Speaker_01
So what we're doing here in this episode, we're going to focus especially primarily on traditional ancient significations, but in some instances that means we're reviving some ancient significations from some ancient authors and seeing if they work or how they work in a modern context, and this is one of them.

00:17:49 Speaker_01
So one last thing to mention here in this area is local acquaintances.

00:17:52 Speaker_01
So it's like people that you make local acquaintances with in your neighborhood that maybe you know casually, because let's say you go into a store all the time and you make an acquaintance with somebody that works there, for example.

00:18:07 Speaker_05
I was thinking about being a regular, like at a coffee shop or a bar, neighborhood bar or something like that, where you have some people who are like fixtures in the local community places like that, and I would expect they would have third house things going on.

00:18:19 Speaker_05
But those are also the places where you see people repetitively like the baristas at your coffee shop. You can tell my coffee shop is like a primary third house thing for me.

00:18:28 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. You do spend a lot of time at coffee shops.

00:18:33 Speaker_05
I do.

00:18:35 Speaker_01
Well, I wrote my book at a coffee shop actually, now that I think about it, so I guess I do too.

00:18:40 Speaker_05
Right, which is actually really funny in terms of doubling up third house significations.

00:18:45 Speaker_01
Right, writing books at coffee shops. All right, so moving on, another major topic of the 3rd house is travel. And in the ancient Hellenistic tradition, all of the cadent houses, but especially the 3rd and 9th, had to do with travel.

00:19:02 Speaker_01
In later traditions, this got specified even further so that the 3rd house became associated with short-distance travel and the 9th house with long-distance, especially international travel. And this is partially mirroring the

00:19:18 Speaker_01
like Sun-Moon joys with the Moon having its joy in the 3rd house and moving so quickly where it moves around the zodiac over the course of a month versus the Sun having its joy in the 9th house and the Sun taking an entire year to move around through all the signs of the zodiac.

00:19:38 Speaker_01
So that's still a relevant distinction, that there's a connection sometimes.

00:19:45 Speaker_01
Oftentimes, when it comes to opposing houses, they have intertwined significations in some ways, and there can be either overlap or you can have two sides of the same coin in some sense.

00:19:59 Speaker_05
Mm hmm. Sometimes they can overlap in significations in a surprising amount.

00:20:05 Speaker_05
Other times, there is this distinction where third house really does correlate more to like local travel or, you know, moving around your city, that kind of thing, whereas the ninth house is more like flying to another country.

00:20:16 Speaker_05
But it's not a hard and fast thing. Like those are tendencies for sure between the third and ninth. But sometimes there's it's just travel.

00:20:24 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure.

00:20:27 Speaker_01
But for the most part, what we're focused on with the third house is going to be short distance journeys, which oftentimes means local travel within your city or sometimes more broadly within the context of your country, but usually it's like city-based travel, as well as modes of transportation and what you do to get around

00:20:49 Speaker_01
a city, like driving in your car. A while ago, it was like riding on horses, although some people still do that, riding a bike, a motorcycle, etc. So it's all of those short distance forms of travel all fall under the domain of the third house.

00:21:09 Speaker_05
I used to really laugh at like cars showing up in the third because it's just, I don't know, a literal astrology amuses me. You know, this astrology is not just metaphorical. It can be just incredibly concrete and literal.

00:21:21 Speaker_05
And so I would say something, you know, like a metaphor around cars to a client and then be like, oh no, I just had to do that with my car.

00:21:28 Speaker_05
And when we look for charts for today, there's just so many of those, like all of the different modes of transportation showing up.

00:21:35 Speaker_01
Yeah, cars sometimes can be very literal and very important. We'll see some people that have career significators tied in with the third house, and they literally are professional race car drivers, for example.

00:21:48 Speaker_01
There's lots of different combinations, so we'll see how that becomes important.

00:21:52 Speaker_01
One of the things I also realized within the context of the travel category, and especially when I was going through a lot of the example charts and the research for this, is that the third house also just represents movement in general.

00:22:03 Speaker_01
So, that's really clear when it comes to like cars, horses, bikes, motorcycles, and just traveling around your local city.

00:22:11 Speaker_01
But I realized in some individuals, it even gets manifested just in like movement of the body in some way being like a key aspect to what they do in life. And we'll see some interesting examples of that later on.

00:22:25 Speaker_05
Right, for sure. Movement of the body or just the ability to move around. Yeah, movement goes in the third house for sure.

00:22:33 Speaker_01
Yeah, which can mean the ability to move or sometimes the inability to move, which can be just as important, but the key archetype there is just movement. All right, so moving on.

00:22:48 Speaker_01
Another huge signification of the third house is communication, and communication seems to be the top-level archetype or signification that a lot of other stuff flows from.

00:23:02 Speaker_01
And this is kind of interesting because communication wasn't emphasized a lot in the Hellenistic tradition. It's actually not mentioned until you get to the medieval authors.

00:23:11 Speaker_01
And then all of a sudden, the early medieval authors start talking about letters and messages associating with that, with the third house. partially due to the Moon and the Moon moving the fastest of all the celestial bodies.

00:23:25 Speaker_01
Around that time, they also had the introduction of concepts like transfer of light, where the Moon can transfer light from one planet and move it to another.

00:23:36 Speaker_01
So it may have been out of that idea that we really started getting this idea of messages and messengers.

00:23:43 Speaker_01
But I think today a really core level of signification is communication, and that can be extended to writing, to messages, but also to speaking and to more broad concepts like your voice.

00:24:00 Speaker_01
One of the things I know you focused on was how you express yourself.

00:24:05 Speaker_05
And the different colorations of the third house or the third house ruler, meaning something about how people prefer to express themselves, whether that's through writing or through painting or singing or whatnot.

00:24:17 Speaker_01
Yeah, as well as their style within those. I have some different examples that we'll see of singers that do different types of singing or have different flavors of singing based on the zodiac sign that's on their third house.

00:24:33 Speaker_05
which can be really interesting to watch.

00:24:35 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, for sure. So more broadly, it can also relate to conveying information or disseminating information through different means. And we'll see some examples of that later. All right.

00:24:50 Speaker_01
Oh, yeah, one of the things I meant to mention about that with the Hellenistic tradition, The Egyptian tradition originally associated the god Toth with the moon, and Toth was the god of writing.

00:25:06 Speaker_01
So even if communication doesn't show up as a major signification in the third house, in some of the Hellenistic authors, I feel like there was some sort of

00:25:17 Speaker_01
inherent understanding of that that must have been present to some extent in that tradition or in some of the Egyptian parts of that tradition early on, even if it's not fully evident in some of the texts that survived to this day.

00:25:29 Speaker_05
LS Yeah, that's really interesting.

00:25:31 Speaker_01
CB Yeah. All right. So early education is another major third house topic.

00:25:42 Speaker_01
So usually in modern times, this has become differentiated where the third house represents early childhood education especially, which is like in the U.S., we would say like kindergarten through high school or primary school versus the ninth house, which is usually associated with university or with college education essentially.

00:26:05 Speaker_05
Mm hmm. Right. Yeah. And it's one of those education is kind of like travel in that there are these distinctions between the third and the ninth and they often show up that way.

00:26:15 Speaker_05
And then occasionally it's just like education more broadly that does cross the third and the ninth. There are a few topics like that because opposing houses can always have some overlaps like that. But yeah, you

00:26:26 Speaker_05
Quite often, you will see the earlier education showing up in the third house and or informal education.

00:26:32 Speaker_05
So I'm thinking like non degree based things like one off workshops or, you know, smaller, smaller amounts of time of education that don't lead to a degree.

00:26:44 Speaker_01
CB So that can lead to learning in general. And I was interested to see in Al-Biruni and Ibn Ezra in the late medieval and also late Islamicate tradition, they mention knowledge as a signification of the third house.

00:27:00 Speaker_05
LS Yeah, that's interesting, has sort of flowing from the information.

00:27:03 Speaker_01
CB Right, exactly. So we'll see some people where that shows up very prominently, where sometimes if people have a career significator there. I had one person that was a teacher or that became a principal of a high school.

00:27:18 Speaker_01
We'll see several examples during the course of this of celebrities who were influenced in a really major way with their overall career and life direction by a high school teacher who put them on the track that they would later end up on.

00:27:34 Speaker_01
There's a couple of comedians, for example, who really got their start in

00:27:41 Speaker_01
grade school or elementary school doing little comedy routines for their class for 10 or 15 minutes a day, where their teacher would allow them to do a little routine for 10 minutes, and that was a major thing for them.

00:27:52 Speaker_01
So even though it seems like a not major signification, it can actually be really crucial for some people.

00:27:59 Speaker_05
It can be. And even if it doesn't feel like it is later in life, it still is for some people, but even if it doesn't, that's like a large swath of your childhood, your childhood experience in that house is like going to school.

00:28:13 Speaker_01
Yeah, your childhood experience and like your formative years and formative experiences.

00:28:17 Speaker_05
Especially with education.

00:28:21 Speaker_01
Right, which it's like you're getting that from your parents, of course.

00:28:24 Speaker_01
Everybody realizes how important the experiences are in your early home life, but part of that is also or things that are adjacent to that can be like your experiences in school growing up and whether that went well or whether you ran into problems for some reason.

00:28:40 Speaker_05
Which can strikingly correlate with the symbolism in the third house for people.

00:28:45 Speaker_01
CB All right, and one last set of significations. So the Hellenistic authors really emphasize divination, dreams, and sometimes religious rites. And this is something that's dropped out because usually this is the focus of divination and

00:29:04 Speaker_01
prophecy and other stuff like that, usually at this point is more put in the ninth house. And it does actually come up there quite a bit. But this is something that we were kind of keeping an eye out for as we're doing some of this.

00:29:15 Speaker_01
And we did find some charts where divination especially seemed to be very relevant for the third house.

00:29:22 Speaker_05
Yeah, it is a crossover again with the third and ninth but it's interesting how, if you think about the ninth being more like a religion as a big picture or your ideology or things like that your worldview, the third house being more locally based with some of those other topics of the third house.

00:29:38 Speaker_05
It's kind of like your embodied practice of that sometimes. It's also really interesting thinking about it in terms of communication, right? Because what do you do with a divination? You ask a question.

00:29:48 Speaker_05
So you're like asking a question of something or someone kind of, you know, implicitly. And so it's kind of an interesting extension of communication as well.

00:29:57 Speaker_01
CB Right, like a communication with the divine and the concept that the universe can speak to you, but also that it's also being oftentimes or sometimes mediated through the diviner.

00:30:09 Speaker_01
If you go to somebody and get a tarot card reading, you're having a conversation or a dialogue with them.

00:30:14 Speaker_05
Absolutely.

00:30:15 Speaker_05
This is also, I'm thinking, like more home-based, like something you can do on your own at home, which is like an extension of the fourth house versus like, you know, I don't know, going to like a very, like a nationally affiliated temple, for instance, in the ninth house.

00:30:30 Speaker_01
Right, for sure. And with religious rites, there was one celebrity I saw where they mentioned their daily prayer routine. And so it made me think of that in terms of that may be a modern parallel for people that have some sort of

00:30:46 Speaker_01
not just both daily routines, but also if there's some sort of daily prayer or other thing like that, or other little minor forms of religious worship, that may be something that belongs in the third house.

00:30:59 Speaker_01
The third house is referred to in the Hellenistic tradition. It's one of the houses that's said to be in between worlds because the cadent houses are falling away from the angle and they're transitioning

00:31:11 Speaker_01
or the sign or planets there transitioning into the next angular triad. So as a result of that, you'll see these topics of being in between two worlds being very significant. Rhetorius talks about the 12th house being

00:31:26 Speaker_01
the in-between worlds because it's the dividing point between before the native is born and then after they've been born, but when you're right on the cusp or standing in between those two worlds.

00:31:40 Speaker_01
But he extends that concept also to the 3rd house as well as the 9th and 6th.

00:31:45 Speaker_05
Yeah, I can totally see that playing out. And it's also like being an intermediary could be a thing there too with the in-between worlds.

00:31:53 Speaker_01
Yeah, as well as traveling. Sometimes when you're traveling, even short distances, you're going in between two worlds. If you're going from home to the coffee shop or what have you.

00:32:07 Speaker_04
Definitely.

00:32:09 Speaker_01
All right, so those are all the basic significations. For those that want a deeper dive into that, three resources.

00:32:16 Speaker_01
First, my book, Hellenistic Astrology, the Study of Fate and Fortune, where I go into the rationale underlying the houses much more deeply and talk about the early Hellenistic authors and what they say about the houses.

00:32:31 Speaker_01
which we sort of alluded to a little bit here, but if you want more of that, then check that out.

00:32:35 Speaker_01
I would also highly, highly recommend Demetra George's book, Ancient Astrology and Theory in Practice, Volume 2, where she does this just comprehensive overview, not just of what the ancient authors say, but she also takes it through the Medieval and Renaissance and modern authors, and she gives this amazing table where she will summarize the primary significations of what

00:33:01 Speaker_01
all of those authors say basically over the past 2,000 years about the third house, and you can really see the evolution of what they were saying about that house and how it sometimes grew and changed, and in other ways, what the through line was and what certain significations were that were constant.

00:33:21 Speaker_01
So a lot of the significations that we put forward here were just based on our basic understanding as well as our empirical studies of the charts and some of the things that came up as we were preparing for this.

00:33:33 Speaker_01
But I also looked through Demetra's in order to get a sense of that literature review that she did and what different significations were, and that was helpful at certain points.

00:33:41 Speaker_01
So I wanted to definitely recommend that book if people want a deeper dive on the signification of the houses.

00:33:46 Speaker_05
LS That's a really useful reference to compare and contrast like that.

00:33:52 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. And then finally, the last one is Levant Laszlo. Shout out for his translations of Rhetorius and other Hellenistic authors, which he's crowdfunding and making available through his page on Patreon under the Hori project.

00:34:10 Speaker_01
which is at horiproject.com. And then there you'll find a link to his Patreon, where if you sign up for it, it's actually very cheap. You get immediate access to all of his translations of these ancient authors.

00:34:22 Speaker_01
And right now he's doing a series of translations of the longest text on the houses that survives from ancient times, which is from Rhetorius of Egypt, And he's going through and he was releasing one chapter of that each month this year.

00:34:38 Speaker_01
And I drew on the third house chapter that he did from Rhetorius recently that was very helpful for getting to some of those original significations of the houses.

00:34:48 Speaker_05
Yeah, definitely shout out to him. It's really exciting that someone is still doing that work right now and you can support him.

00:34:55 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right, so that is the significations of the houses. All right, so now we're going to transition into looking at example charts. And first, I need to do a little preface before we get there.

00:35:08 Speaker_01
So first things first, I wanted to give thanks and give a shout out to some of the people that gave us research assistance as we were searching for chart examples for this episode. So in particular, shout out to astrologers Nick Diggin-Vest,

00:35:23 Speaker_01
Orla on Twitter at OCAstrology on Twitter or X, Melissa Marklin, and Lindsey Turner. So they all gave us helpful support as we were researching this episode and finding different charts and doing write-ups and stuff. So that was helpful.

00:35:42 Speaker_01
Patrick Watson also gave me a few examples. And Madeline Decote actually gave us an example as well, I think, right? Yeah, so also shout out to everybody who sent in examples on social media, as well as a number of patrons who sent in examples.

00:35:59 Speaker_01
We appreciate it.

00:36:00 Speaker_05
Thank you. It's the only way to collect this many charts.

00:36:04 Speaker_01
Yeah. I mean, most of them I still found and you found, but it was helpful that we got some from different people. All right, so other than that, preface to example charts, just a few preparatory remarks.

00:36:19 Speaker_01
One, this is not going to be fully comprehensive, even if it looks like it.

00:36:22 Speaker_01
We're going to cover a lot, but the point is just to give you a sample of some of the different ways that the placements can manifest instead of delineating every possible thing.

00:36:32 Speaker_01
So obviously, there's going to be some things that we're not going to address, which is fine. can only do so much.

00:36:43 Speaker_01
Sometimes we're going to give negative examples, and of course negative placements or different placements will not always manifest that way, but the point is just to give you an idea of the full range of different possibilities.

00:37:01 Speaker_01
some difficult placements, we're going to focus on more difficult things. This is important.

00:37:06 Speaker_01
It doesn't mean that these placements will always manifest super negatively, but sometimes it's necessary to be able to address difficult topics just because sometimes people can face real hardships or adversity or even disability in certain areas.

00:37:22 Speaker_01
And so astrology and astrologers need to be able to speak to those topics. And that's sometimes where you'll find some of those things, right?

00:37:31 Speaker_05
And if you're just getting into astrology and listening to this, this isn't the only way these can play out. There's lots of different sub factors that influence each other in the chart.

00:37:41 Speaker_05
So just know that, that we're not trying to say like this is the only way this plays out and it's always negative and you're doomed. That is not the message.

00:37:48 Speaker_05
This is just how these particular very complex combinations of factors play out in this particular person's life.

00:37:57 Speaker_01
CB Right, for sure. And we're going to focus on more literal manifestations for the most part that are obvious external things, but there can be a whole range of both external as well as internal or psychological manifestations.

00:38:14 Speaker_01
All right, so let's see. This is not really a casual podcast episode, obviously. This is a workshop or an intensive.

00:38:21 Speaker_01
This is something I could normally actually turn into a book or do over the course of a whole two- to three-day weekend where people would fly out and see this presentation as a full intensive.

00:38:34 Speaker_01
But we're going to do it and put it out there as a free podcast. because of the support that we receive from patrons through our page on Patreon and other things that allow us to do that.

00:38:45 Speaker_01
But for me, I wanted to do a comprehensive treatment of this topic that was like, if I'm only going to talk about this topic one time, this is going to be my best and most comprehensive shot at it. So that's the goal here.

00:38:59 Speaker_01
Yeah, so I make no apologies for whatever the final length of the episode ends up being. We'll see how it goes, but we're putting it out there for free. So yeah, if deep dives are too much for you, it's okay, and you can turn back now.

00:39:17 Speaker_05
All right.

00:39:18 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's fair warning. Important things often show up in multiple ways in the charts.

00:39:23 Speaker_01
We're going to focus on a few specific things, but there may be other things that we don't point out just because that's not our focus or other observations that others might see that we overlooked.

00:39:34 Speaker_01
So if you see something interesting, then feel free to post it in the YouTube comments and let us know. There are more timed charts in the databases, unfortunately, for men than there are women, which creates a disparity.

00:39:53 Speaker_01
We've done our best to try to offset that to some extent here, but for example, as of this recording, there still has not been a woman president of the United States. So part of the issue is it's not just the databases, but it's how

00:40:08 Speaker_01
It's the place of women in society up to this point and how different things have become in recent times compared to the vast majority of past history, and that creates some issues in terms of doing research and stuff like this.

00:40:22 Speaker_01
So for the sake of presenting the best examples, we'll have to deal with the existence of this disparity, although we do try to offset it, although hopefully in the future this will cease to be an issue, or as much of an issue, both in the data collections as well as in our society in general.

00:40:39 Speaker_05
Yeah. And it's not just like people's place in society, but also who's gathered the birth times from which people.

00:40:45 Speaker_05
And so we have to work with the birth times that are available because this requires time charts, what we're doing here and most of what we're doing. And so we did actually make a big effort to try to balance things out in different ways.

00:40:58 Speaker_05
But we also need like good examples of what we're talking about. So just as a heads up.

00:41:04 Speaker_01
Yeah, so there's a lot of time charts for men in the databases, but that's one of the opportunities.

00:41:09 Speaker_01
I think one of the things that I'm starting to see change with this generation is, especially if this generation of astrologers gets empowered to go out and ask especially celebrities, for their birth time.

00:41:21 Speaker_01
If people that they are fans of or people that they find interesting or people that are in the news, then that will start to offset this disparity.

00:41:30 Speaker_01
But it's sort of like a community thing that we all have to be involved in, each individual astrologer to help fix that sort of gap in our community. LS Yeah.

00:41:42 Speaker_01
And then finally, as I said in the second house episode, Lisa's here helping me to present a lot of my research for this because I can't speak for long periods of time on my own anymore because my voice goes out due to my issues with long COVID.

00:41:55 Speaker_01
So I always need to have somebody here to talk to even when I'm presenting stuff that's like oftentimes more things that I've researched more thoroughly where most of my chart examples in this episode are going to be for me.

00:42:10 Speaker_01
And that's just part of the deal. However, I just wanted to make that clear just in case it seems like I'm talking about more of these examples at different points.

00:42:22 Speaker_01
Although in this episode, Lisa's been much more involved, and this has been much more of a collaborative effort between the two of us over the past two weeks than the previous episode on the second house.

00:42:33 Speaker_05
Yeah, last time I just kind of jumped in at the last minute more or less, but this time I've been working on it a little bit more and it's been more of a dialogue and I found more chart examples as well.

00:42:42 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. And that's been hugely instrumental, so this is definitely more of a collaboration. I'm still going to be going on more about certain example charts.

00:42:50 Speaker_01
There's going to be certain parts that I'm more familiar with or others where you've contributed more in certain sections.

00:42:57 Speaker_01
But yeah, so just a preface to that, but it's been exciting putting this together with you and it's been really fulfilling over the past few weeks.

00:43:03 Speaker_05
Yeah, definitely. I think so too.

00:43:05 Speaker_01
I think that's it. Shall we jump into the ruler of the Ascendant?

00:43:09 Speaker_05
We should.

00:43:10 Speaker_01
All right, here we go. So I'm going to start first. The ruler of the Ascendant, as I said in the previous episodes, is one of the most important planets in the chart, and it can show something about the native's overall life direction and focus.

00:43:25 Speaker_01
So when the ruler of the Ascendant is placed in the 3rd house, it means that some of those topics are going to be more important for you in directing something about your overall life story towards that specific area.

00:43:38 Speaker_01
or making it so that some important turning points in your life have to do or arise from third house things. In this section, we are going to talk about some rule of the ascendant placements.

00:43:53 Speaker_01
Unfortunately, in order to set up my very first and best example, I first have to do an example of somebody that had the ruler of the 10th house of career in the third house of relatives. So let's pull it up. So that person is Queen Elizabeth II.

00:44:17 Speaker_01
So Queen Elizabeth II, who just passed away a few years ago, had Capricorn rising and Libra on the 10th whole sign house, where the Lot of Fortune is placed.

00:44:30 Speaker_01
And the ruler of the 10th whole sign house of career is Venus, which is placed in Pisces, where it's exalted in the 3rd house, which is the place of siblings, relatives, aunts, uncles, and extended family.

00:44:50 Speaker_01
So what was interesting about Queen Elizabeth and what's interesting about her life is that originally, she wasn't supposed to be queen.

00:45:01 Speaker_01
It was her uncle that was king, but what happened is that he suddenly decided that he wanted to marry a commoner, basically, and in order to do that, he had to step down as king.

00:45:15 Speaker_01
So he stepped down as king so he could run off and get married, and that made Queen Elizabeth's father king, which then put Queen Elizabeth in the line of succession, where she would eventually become queen after her father died not too long afterwards.

00:45:31 Speaker_01
So what's interesting about this example is that with the ruler of the 10th house of career so well-placed in the 3rd house, it's pointing to the fact that her uncle basically would abdicate, which would end up making her queen.

00:45:47 Speaker_01
And it's interesting that it's co-present with Uranus and Pisces at the same time, also in her 3rd house, because it was unexpected. It's something that wasn't supposed to happen.

00:45:58 Speaker_05
Yeah, it wasn't supposed to happen. And so it's interesting that the ruler, the 10th is with Uranus. And so like a change of plans, like led to basically her place in society or her prominence in society.

00:46:11 Speaker_05
Venus is also not just exalted in Pisces, but it is in a night chart. So that's like the most positive placement. And so literally like she became very prominent, like an exalted planet can also just like indicate prominence.

00:46:25 Speaker_05
as well as something positive about it via a relative, the change of plans from a relative.

00:46:31 Speaker_01
CB Right, and specifically her uncle, basically. That is the example, and that's the setup. The payoff for our purposes, additionally, is the birth chart of her sister.

00:46:50 Speaker_01
This is the birth chart of her sister, Princess Margaret, who was born with Aries rising. And the ruler of the Ascendant then is Mars, the planet that rules Aries, and it's placed in Gemini in the 3rd whole sign house.

00:47:03 Speaker_01
So the ruler of her Ascendant is placed in the house of siblings. So her and Elizabeth grew up together, but then

00:47:14 Speaker_01
When this change happened, when their father's brother abdicated the crown and gave it to the father, all of a sudden, it meant that Margaret's sister was the queen.

00:47:28 Speaker_01
So all of a sudden, this changes the dynamic between these two siblings, but it also sets it up so that Margaret then was the second in line to the throne if something had happened to Elizabeth.

00:47:42 Speaker_01
So as a result of that, there was not attention, but there was an open question of, could I become queen if something happens to my sister?

00:47:54 Speaker_01
And more broadly also that once her sister became queen and was put in power, a lot of Margaret's life then was not dictated by, but built around what her sister was doing as the queen at that point.

00:48:10 Speaker_05
Mm hmm. And I'm sure it played out in other ways as well. But just think of if you're the sibling of someone really famous in society, like that is just literally how you're going to first be known. You're the sister of the queen, right?

00:48:23 Speaker_05
Like even if you do other things and even if you do other third house things, that's just like a prominent part of her identity as a whole throughout her whole life with her ascendant ruler being placed there.

00:48:35 Speaker_01
Yeah, totally. One of the things that's cool is that there was actually an eclipse in the sign of Gemini earlier in the same year that her sister became queen and her uncle abdicated. So that's a theme that we're going to see a lot.

00:48:54 Speaker_01
We found a ton of examples where the major event that was indicated in the birth chart and then that we talk about will actually be foreshadowed or the timing will line up either by a transit or especially by an eclipse around the time of the event.

00:49:14 Speaker_05
Yeah, we both found a ton of those. It was all comical after a while. I was like, okay, yes, it's highlighting the third house and change in third house.

00:49:22 Speaker_01
CB Right. When it comes to this story, her position in the line of succession did diminish over the following decades as Elizabeth had children and grandchildren, so that they became the ones that were in the line of succession.

00:49:39 Speaker_01
But nonetheless, her life was still inherently tied to the monarchy.

00:49:44 Speaker_01
So while many siblings share close relationships, the unique circumstances of their royal lives really made Princess Margaret's life particularly intertwined with that of her sister, Queen Elizabeth II. So that's my starting example.

00:50:04 Speaker_01
What do you think?

00:50:05 Speaker_05
No, I think that's great because that is what the Ascendant ruler is doing wherever the Ascendant ruler is placed by house and sign and aspects. That's like saying something about your identity or how you are known as a person.

00:50:21 Speaker_05
So yeah, that's like a perfect first example.

00:50:24 Speaker_01
Yeah, and that's what you have to ask sometimes.

00:50:27 Speaker_01
If you have a client or you have somebody come in and they have the ruler of the Ascendant and the third, one of your first questions is like, are siblings or the topic of relatives somehow important to you in some significant way in your life?

00:50:41 Speaker_01
And it's like if Princess Margaret walked into your office anonymously and you didn't know who she was and you said that, she would be like, well, yes, yes, they are. It's funny you mentioned that because my sibling is the queen.

00:50:54 Speaker_05
Totally. Yeah. And I think it's an important illustration because the third house by itself, it's not an angular house. It doesn't otherwise stand out.

00:51:03 Speaker_05
So the ways it can stand out or the ways those topics can become more important or more prominent in someone's life are things like the Ascendant ruler place there and bringing those topics to the forefront

00:51:13 Speaker_05
the sect light, like the Sun or Moon being placed in there or so forth. There's different factors that can do that. Whereas for people who don't have any of those major things going on, it's like, eh, third house stuff, whatever.

00:51:24 Speaker_05
I have siblings, yeah, but it's not a big deal. And so that's part of the distinction there of why and how that can become more important in someone's life.

00:51:33 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, for sure. All right. So let's move on to my next example, which is the birth chart of Walt Disney. So everybody knows who Walt Disney is.

00:51:44 Speaker_01
He was the founder of Disney, the animation company and animation studio, which today still makes all of those major animated features that we all grew up watching, pretty much everyone around the world at this point.

00:52:00 Speaker_01
There are some interesting things about his ruler of the Ascendant being in the 3rd house of communication, and then the ruler of his 3rd house of communication is Mars, which is placed in the 5th house of children.

00:52:16 Speaker_01
animation studio that was really into storytelling and especially retailing old fairy tales for children.

00:52:23 Speaker_01
So essentially part of his example with the Ruler of the Ascendant and the Third is that he helped pioneer a new medium of communication through animation.

00:52:33 Speaker_01
However, not well known these days, he actually had a brother that was very important in his life whose name was Roy O'Disney.

00:52:43 Speaker_01
And Roy was a crucial figure in the creation and success of the Disney company, where he served as its co-founder and first CEO.

00:52:55 Speaker_01
And he was basically responsible for much of the business and financial side of the company, while Walt Disney focused on the creative aspects of it. So they were really like a brother duo, basically, that were working together to create this empire.

00:53:12 Speaker_05
Which is funny because you could see the drawing aspect and the creating stories as the third house, which is the Ascendant ruler being placed there.

00:53:19 Speaker_05
But then the ruler of the third being in the fifth is like Mars in Capricorn, Mars exalted in Capricorn, which is very much like a CEO of a company.

00:53:27 Speaker_01
Yeah, totally. So the brother being the CEO, the brother is like the ruler of the house.

00:53:37 Speaker_01
So, other interesting facts, though, that are kind of funny is that Walt Disney, the owner of the chart, actually had a thing for trains, like trains come up like all over the time. He's almost kind of obsessed with trains.

00:53:49 Speaker_01
And Patrick Watson actually was the one that pointed this out to me. And it was funny researching it and finding out that that is actually true.

00:53:56 Speaker_01
Additionally, Disney really liked creating communities and neighborhoods, and that's essentially what Disney World was originally supposed to be.

00:54:06 Speaker_01
If you go on YouTube and look up original plans for Disney World, you'll find some really interesting videos about his original plans were far broader. They eventually had to scale it back a bit.

00:54:18 Speaker_01
But even what it is now, you can see how it has all these specialized areas that have different themes and stuff like that, including a futuristic area, which is like Epcot, or a fantasy area, or what have you.

00:54:33 Speaker_01
But he wanted to do more of that, but he was also interested in creating these idealized communities and cities, and that's another interesting way that his ruler of the Ascendant and the third house placement manifest in.

00:54:43 Speaker_05
LS And it's interesting when you have the Ascendant ruler there especially, although it can happen with other third house factors too.

00:54:50 Speaker_05
It's like there can be more than one third house topic that's important in the person's life, and that's like three of them right there. Yeah, exactly. Like a mode of transportation with the trains and neighborhoods and then animation of storytelling.

00:55:06 Speaker_01
Yeah, and communication and writing.

00:55:09 Speaker_01
So it's one of the reasons why you kind of when you're asking a client, you kind of have to ask about a few of the key significations if you see an important planet in their chart there of like if siblings is communication or short distance travel significant to you in some way.

00:55:25 Speaker_05
Because if it's not one, it'll still be one of the others. We just have to get there.

00:55:30 Speaker_01
Right. Well, and sometimes with Disney, I always knew about his Ruler of the Ascent and the third and thought that was just his getting into animation and doing that. But I didn't know that he had this brother that was huge in his life.

00:55:42 Speaker_01
So with some of these, when you're researching chart examples, it really pays to search and see if they have third house placements, asking, did they have an important sibling? And oftentimes, you'll find that the answer is yes.

00:55:56 Speaker_01
All right, so those are my initial examples. Other contemporary examples of people that have prominent 3rd house placements, Logan Paul and Jake Paul actually both have prominent 3rd house placements.

00:56:10 Speaker_01
So Logan has Capricorn rising with Saturn in the 3rd house of siblings, while Jake has Taurus rising with the Moon ruling the 3rd house of siblings placed in the 1st house. So they've both contributed to each other's success on social media.

00:56:29 Speaker_01
And Logan, who has the ruler of the Ascendant in the 3rd house, also has a major podcast and seems like the more savvy social media person, although he periodically gets himself canceled by doing controversial things since the ruler of the Ascendant is Saturn and it's a night chart.

00:56:47 Speaker_01
So Saturn is the malefic that's contrary to the sect.

00:56:50 Speaker_05
Yeah, so sometimes the trouble is like coming from yourself, like something you're doing.

00:56:55 Speaker_01
CB Right. Sometimes as we'll see, it's like the killer is inside the house or the call is coming from inside the house. There's his chart really quickly, just very briefly for those watching the video version.

00:57:10 Speaker_01
All right, so other examples, Eddie Van Halen. had Venus in Sagittarius as the Ascendant Lord in the third house, and he famously started the band Van Halen with his brother.

00:57:24 Speaker_01
So shout out to Orla for this one, and I think the last one with Logan Paul as well for finding those two. I thought that was brilliant.

00:57:33 Speaker_01
Another one I wanted to mention in passing is the actor Armie Hammer was born with Gemini Rising and Mercury and Leo in the third whole sign house.

00:57:42 Speaker_01
He famously played the Winklevoss twins in David Fincher's movie on Facebook that was called The Social Network that won so many awards around 2010 or so when it came out.

00:57:54 Speaker_01
This is interesting because that was actually a breakout role for him that garnered him a lot of recognition where it was just one guy playing two twins.

00:58:04 Speaker_01
So sometimes the idea of siblings can be literal, and other times, especially frequently with actors or creative types, sometimes what's in the chart they end up embodying at some critical point in their life creatively in some way.

00:58:19 Speaker_05
LS Mm-hmm, because the astrology itself doesn't care whether it's fictional or real if you're actually doing something in your life with it. It still matters.

00:58:30 Speaker_01
CB Right, exactly. So there's Armie Hammer's chart. There's Van Halen's chart. We can see the ruler of the Ascendant is in the third house in both of those.

00:58:42 Speaker_01
Moving on, a more recent example that's interesting that I wanted to mention briefly is Zendaya was born with Aquarius rising and Saturn in Aries in the third house. So let me put her chart up. There it is.

00:58:59 Speaker_01
There's Zendaya's chart with the ruler, the Ascendant, and the third house.

00:59:03 Speaker_01
And Zendaya, of course, at this point is famous as an actress as well as a singer, and she's a really versatile and talented performer who's achieved success in acting, singing, dancing.

00:59:15 Speaker_01
She's also the youngest two-time Emmy award-winning actor, achieving this at the age of 26. And there's actually some interesting things in terms of

00:59:25 Speaker_01
The ruler of the Third House of Communications is in the Sixth House of Illness, and she actually got her two Emmys for playing the character Rue Bennett in the show Euphoria, who is a character that really struggled with drug and alcohol addiction that really is central to that character.

00:59:44 Speaker_01
But other interesting things about Zendaya is that both of her parents were actually schoolteachers, and I think her mom is actually still a teacher, and her dad has become her manager.

00:59:56 Speaker_01
But they both started out as schoolteachers, so we have that third house topic coming up. The other main reason that Zendaya is interesting is that she actually has five older half-siblings.

01:00:08 Speaker_01
as well as several nieces and several nephews, and she's mentioned them a few times. She mentions them in interviews, so I have a few quotes. One of them, it said, I have five older siblings. I'm the youngest, so I got to learn and grow through them.

01:00:26 Speaker_01
I had a lot of people to look up to. On the influence of her older sister, she said, I look up to my big sister and realize the influence she's had on me and making me a better person.

01:00:38 Speaker_01
Elsewhere, talking about her large family, she says, having such a big, grounded family, I realized as you get older how important that is.

01:00:47 Speaker_01
And then finally, on being an aunt with many nieces and nephews, she said, quote, I have many, many little nieces and nephews, so they're like my borrowed children. I get to have fun and then give them back to their parents.

01:01:00 Speaker_01
So it's not groundbreaking stuff compared to some of the other ones, but I just thought that was interesting because sometimes what I want to point out is just when an important planet is placed in the third, it can really indicate that siblings play a more important role in your life in some way and influencing you, as well as that aunts, uncles,

01:01:21 Speaker_01
cousins, nephews, and nieces can also then be more important to you as well. Or in her case, she just has a lot of half-siblings and a lot of nieces and nephews.

01:01:33 Speaker_05
For sure. And even if it's the Ascendant ruler there, it doesn't have to be a career thing, right? The career is more the 10th house.

01:01:38 Speaker_05
And the third house being right next to the fourth house of home and being in that angular triad at the bottom of the chart, sort of more rootedness, as you were talking about earlier.

01:01:51 Speaker_05
where you come from or the people around where you came from or your extended family can just literally be more important to some people than others, right? And it doesn't have to be something that's like a public thing.

01:02:02 Speaker_05
It's just it's more important to them and it's like a part of the chart.

01:02:06 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly.

01:02:09 Speaker_01
Yeah, and she's also still very young, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in the future and other ways that she grows into and manifests that third house ruler of the Ascendant placement in her chart throughout the course of her life.

01:02:21 Speaker_05
Right, which there probably will be more.

01:02:24 Speaker_01
Yeah, undoubtedly. All right, so moving on to my next chart example is the actor Rami Malek. who is a famous actor at this point, but he really became known hugely a few years ago.

01:02:42 Speaker_01
He became best known for playing Freddie Mercury in the biopic Bohemian Rhapsody that came out that was based on the singer where he played the lead singer of that band Queen, and he actually won an Academy Award for Best Actor for that role.

01:03:03 Speaker_01
There's two things I want to focus on with this. The main thing relates to communication and that role, but then the other thing was, it was funny because as I was researching this,

01:03:16 Speaker_01
Actually, let's focus on the communication part first, and then I'll introduce the second part. All right. So he's best known for playing Freddie Mercury.

01:03:22 Speaker_01
One of the things that's really interesting in his chart is that it's Cancer Rising, and the Moon is in Virgo conjunct the IC in the third house. And the lunar significations really come through with him.

01:03:38 Speaker_01
both in the receptive significations of the Moon, but also in the significations of the Moon having to do with the body. Because I think a great keyword for that portrayal is that he really embodied Freddie Mercury in that role.

01:03:52 Speaker_01
And one of the things that was interesting I looked up was their sinistery. And it turned out that Rami Malek's Moon is at 11 degrees of Virgo, and it's exactly conjunct Freddie Mercury's Sun, which is also at 11 degrees of Virgo.

01:04:10 Speaker_01
So I thought that was just stunning that the actor who played in the biopic of this singer who had died years earlier, that the ruler of his ascendant was exactly conjunct the Sun of the guy that he was playing.

01:04:26 Speaker_05
Yeah, I love that. And you can often see that like interesting synastry with actors who are playing other people.

01:04:33 Speaker_01
Yeah, but that one was really close.

01:04:36 Speaker_01
And further, what was really interesting was actually the timing of that because I found that when he was auditioning for the role, there was a solar eclipse at nine degrees of Virgo that was very close to Rami Malek's Moon and Freddie Mercury's Sun.

01:04:53 Speaker_01
So there was additionally, it wasn't just the synastry, but then there was something that came along that showed the actual timing of when he took on this role to embody Freddie Mercury.

01:05:04 Speaker_01
And then subsequent to that, he did this physical transformation where he had to use fake teeth in order to sort of imitate Freddie Mercury's very unique dental structure. But also, it wasn't just acting, he also had to sing.

01:05:23 Speaker_01
So he worked with a dialect coach and a movement coach

01:05:27 Speaker_01
in order to get both the voice down and the singing, which is also a third house thing, but also even to imitate his movements by watching like hundreds of hours of video of him and really trying to get his movements down.

01:05:43 Speaker_05
Right. And the singing and the dialect pieces are definitely like the communicative pieces of the third house. But then the movement, you really get the moon part, like the mobility, like how you're moving your body through space.

01:05:55 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah, and this is one of the first examples.

01:05:58 Speaker_01
This is another example that really started keying me into that movement and motion are really key archetypes and underlying significations that a lot of other things are derived from when it comes to the third house.

01:06:13 Speaker_01
So he won an Academy Award as Best Actor for the role. It's the highest-grossing musical biographical film of all time, and he's the first actor of Egyptian heritage to win the Academy Award for Best Actor.

01:06:24 Speaker_01
This is where it's interesting because he kept coming up I was searching for who has the ruler of the Ascendant in the 3rd house, he would sometimes come up.

01:06:38 Speaker_01
I knew he'd done that role, but I didn't know how compelling the story would be or where that would fall in terms of my research. But then I was researching a week or two ago, famous twins, and at the top of the Google results, his face came up.

01:06:53 Speaker_01
And I'm like, oh my God. And it turns out he actually was born with his identical twin brother named Sami, who was born four minutes later.

01:07:03 Speaker_01
So it's not just that Rami Malek has the ruler of the Ascended to the 3rd, and he's good at communicating and embodying roles, but it turns out he also has a twin brother who's also very important to him.

01:07:18 Speaker_01
Interestingly, his twin brother grew up and became a high school English teacher, as well as somebody that teaches English as a second or foreign language.

01:07:29 Speaker_01
So his brother, who has a very similar chart, also embodied the ruler of the Ascendant in the third house placement.

01:07:36 Speaker_05
MS. Right, in two different ways. That's really interesting in terms of languages and then in terms of early schooling.

01:07:41 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. So Rami frequently attends his brother's award shows or his brother attends his award shows. And they've spoken publicly about their admiration. He's spoken publicly about his admiration for his brother's dedication to teaching.

01:08:01 Speaker_01
And they have some funny stories about switching places to give a speech when they were younger and things like that. But the last thing that was really interesting about Rami Malek is His parents immigrated to the U.S.

01:08:14 Speaker_01
from Egypt not too long before he was born, and so he spoke Egyptian Arabic at home until the age of four. That made him bilingual, which is kind of interesting because the Moon is in a mutable sign.

01:08:31 Speaker_01
But early on, he found it difficult to assimilate because of cultural differences where people especially would mispronounce his name for most of his childhood. And this is something that really bothered him.

01:08:44 Speaker_01
And he said in an interview once that it wasn't until high school where he finally worked up the courage to start telling people like how to pronounce his name correctly.

01:08:54 Speaker_01
I thought that was such a first house thing, to have the ruler of the Ascendant in the first house. The first house represents your identity, but to struggle with people mispronouncing your name is a very striking manifestation of that.

01:09:09 Speaker_05
Right. Especially that that was a focus for him in his early childhood years or in his early schooling years, which would just again echo the Ascendant ruler being in the third.

01:09:21 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. So he said, as a result of that, it was difficult for him to form a self-identity as a child. And he gravitated towards, quote, creating characters and doing voices as he searched for an outlet for his energy.

01:09:34 Speaker_01
And this is actually very similar to some other figures that have the ruler of the Ascendant in the third house, like Jim Carrey, as we'll see later, who grew up doing different voices and then eventually made a career out of that.

01:09:46 Speaker_04
Right.

01:09:49 Speaker_01
And finally, the last thing, he wanted to be a lawyer, so he joined the debate team in high school, but his debate teacher said he wasn't any good, but they said he was really good at acting dramatic roles.

01:09:59 Speaker_01
So his debate teacher in high school, noting his talent for drama, suggested that he try acting, and that's actually how he got to start acting, through who he said was a quote-unquote brilliant drama teacher named Judy Weldon.

01:10:14 Speaker_01
And so both him and his brother became involved in the school's drama department.

01:10:19 Speaker_05
That's cool. Yeah. And you can sometimes see acting come up in different places or ways in the chart, but it's interesting that Mars, if I'm remembering, I don't have the chart up, but Mars, I think is the ruler of the fifth, right? As well as the 10th.

01:10:36 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:10:36 Speaker_05
Yeah, it does. And the Moon is closely applying by trying to that Mars.

01:10:42 Speaker_05
So it's interesting that the third house initial debate experience led him to the fifth house and 10th house ruler, which was a center ruler in the third and then applying to the ruler of the fifth and 10th.

01:10:55 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. So anyway, that is my example where it's both siblings, communication, and high school are very important for him in his life, as we can see.

01:11:09 Speaker_01
All right, so that's a transitional figure that transitions us into the next section, where I want to focus on examples that have to do with communication.

01:11:17 Speaker_01
The most striking example of this that I found that I was so excited when I found it is Jimmy Wales, who's the founder of Wikipedia.

01:11:28 Speaker_01
doesn't just have the ruler of the Ascendant in the 3rd house, but he actually has a mutual reception between the ruler of the 1st house and the ruler of the 3rd house.

01:11:37 Speaker_01
So he has Taurus rising, and Venus is in Cancer in the 3rd whole sign house along with Jupiter and Mars.

01:11:46 Speaker_01
And then the ruler of the 3rd house is the Moon, which is actually exalted in the sign of Taurus in the rising sign and thus in the 1st whole sign house of the native.

01:11:57 Speaker_01
So mutual receptions are extremely important, as I talked about in previous episodes on the rulers of the houses.

01:12:06 Speaker_01
like when the ruler of one house is in another, it shows a connection between those two areas of life, and that'll manifest at different points in different ways to some extent.

01:12:16 Speaker_01
But when there's a mutual reception where the rulers of two houses have exchanged signs, it always shows a super close connection between those two houses, and it oftentimes manifests as just a really dominant

01:12:31 Speaker_01
theme in the person's life so that they become some of our best examples as we'll see during the course of this. And he's one of the first that really demonstrates that concept.

01:12:40 Speaker_05
LS Mm-hmm, right. So what he's known for is a website that's literally about information, communication, communicating information, different people contributing to a body of information and so forth.

01:12:55 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's like a free online encyclopedia that's built and maintained by a collaborative community of volunteers around the world.

01:13:04 Speaker_01
One of the things that's interesting is its open editing model makes it so that anyone can contribute and improve, so that it's constantly evolving and is a dynamic source of information.

01:13:16 Speaker_01
And I think that's really interesting because that really fits the symbolism of the Moon and of Cancer because the Moon is constantly moving.

01:13:24 Speaker_01
It's constantly changing phases, so it has that quality that's associated with ancient astrology, and here we can see a very literal manifestation of that.

01:13:34 Speaker_05
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, because I mean, sometimes you'll just see like, if the moon's like in the third, for example, you'll see like people, I don't know, traveling a lot or something.

01:13:42 Speaker_05
There's like that constant movement, but here it's like the movement of the information rule through the ruler, the third and the first being the moon.

01:13:50 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. So at this point, it's the largest and most widely read reference work ever created, containing millions of articles in hundreds of languages.

01:14:01 Speaker_01
So you really bring together all of those different concepts of communication there in writing. He has other relevant background things, but I won't dwell on them. His mother and grandmother ran a small private school. He has three siblings.

01:14:14 Speaker_01
He enjoyed reading, especially after his mom bought him an encyclopedia at age of three, and he would read it, and it became an object of reverence.

01:14:27 Speaker_01
Yeah, we can just see this theme of early childhood education coming up a lot with him in his biography, as well as themes of knowledge, writing, and communications.

01:14:37 Speaker_05
That's a perfect example of the third house.

01:14:39 Speaker_01
Yeah, you can't basically get any more perfect than that. If anyone can find a better example, let me know.

01:14:45 Speaker_05
Yeah, we may have one that's like tied with that in a bit.

01:14:49 Speaker_01
Yeah, well, that's actually our very next example.

01:14:50 Speaker_05
Okay.

01:14:52 Speaker_01
All right, so our only other example that can kind of like rival

01:14:56 Speaker_01
know, Jimmy Wales is the founder of Wikipedia, is Elon Musk, who was born with cancer rising, and he also has a mutual reception between the rulers of the first and third houses, a very strong mutual reception.

01:15:14 Speaker_01
So he has Cancer rising and the Moon is in Virgo in the 3rd whole sign house along with the Lot of Fortune and the planet Pluto.

01:15:23 Speaker_01
And then the ruler of the 3rd house is Mercury, which is in Cancer on the exact degree of the Ascendant at 14 degrees of Cancer conjunct the Ascendant at 13.

01:15:33 Speaker_01
So the Moon is actually at eight degrees of Virgo, applying with reception to a very close sextile with Mercury. So this creates a very close connection between the rulers of the 1st and the 3rd houses

01:15:47 Speaker_01
Of course, one of the ways that that's worked out is that he has been the head of Tesla, which is all about creating electric cars and obviously short distance travel, and it's basically pushing the world to adopt electric vehicles.

01:16:05 Speaker_01
He also bought Twitter a couple of years ago, which is one of the largest social media platforms and is unique in that of all the social media platforms, Twitter was really the one that had a specific focus on written communication.

01:16:21 Speaker_01
Now, more recently, he's doing Neuralink, where it's like putting a chip in people's brains to allow them to control computers and essentially to communicate with a computer with the mind directly rather than using your hands or your voice even.

01:16:38 Speaker_01
So this may be a new way of communicating in the future. He also has another company called Starlink, which is putting up communication satellites up into space and creating satellite intranet. Finally, he's also the head of SpaceX.

01:16:53 Speaker_01
Usually, we think of space as more of a long-distance, ninth-house type of travel. However, what may be happening is it may be creating a future where quick trips to space are more possible.

01:17:07 Speaker_05
Right. It is possible. And then it also can just be like that overlapping signification of travel being in the third and the ninth.

01:17:15 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah. So, you know, whatever you think about the guy, whatever, we don't have to get into all of the problematic stuff. But, you know, that's a pretty good example with the mutual reception between the ruler of the first and the third.

01:17:31 Speaker_05
Right. And that was like, I think, five different things that were like third house topics.

01:17:35 Speaker_01
Yeah, and that's always what happens when there's a mutual reception. It's like when the ruler of one house is in another, it's like there's some connection and you can see it.

01:17:42 Speaker_01
But it's like when there's a mutual reception, it's a very strong connection that's like a very defining feature.

01:17:48 Speaker_05
Yeah, definitely.

01:17:50 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right. So other ones to mention just very briefly in passing.

01:17:57 Speaker_01
This one's just kind of funny, although there's a lot of depth to it that I'm not going to dwell on, but it turns out Nikola Tesla also had the ruler of the Ascendant in the first house, which is funny since that's what Elon Musk's company is named after.

01:18:10 Speaker_01
And it turned out a lot of his work had to do with wireless communication or wireless transmission of information. Communication actually played a very significant role in the life of Tesla.

01:18:24 Speaker_01
I'm going to skip that for the sake of time dwelling on that, but it'll be in the show notes that are available to patrons afterwards. Another example, you really liked this one, right?

01:18:37 Speaker_05
Yeah, this is Ted Turner, Sagittarius Rising with Jupiter ruling the Ascendant placed in the third house in a day chart.

01:18:44 Speaker_05
So it's like the best benefic is in the third house and he's famously founded CNN, the news network, which is like putting out information into the world.

01:18:55 Speaker_01
Yeah, so he founded CNN, a major news network, and has the ruler of the Ascendant in the third house. And of course, he has other things as well.

01:19:04 Speaker_01
For example, the planet Mercury is conjunct the degree of the Ascendant, so there's other factors going on. But it's interesting founding a news company, a media company, and having the ruler of the Ascendant in the third.

01:19:18 Speaker_05
Right. The ruler of the third is also in the fifth.

01:19:21 Speaker_05
And like earlier in his career, he like bought at least one sports team in part just to like have something to broadcast on the on the TV network, which is really funny to me with the connection between the third and the fifth.

01:19:33 Speaker_01
Nice. That's good.

01:19:35 Speaker_05
Yeah.

01:19:36 Speaker_01
All right, another major example for me where I found somebody with a mutual reception, and this was actually sent in to me by Melissa Marklin, was Eartha Kitt is an amazing example.

01:19:49 Speaker_01
She was born with Sagittarius rising and the ruler of the Ascendant is Jupiter, which is located in Aquarius in the 3rd house along with Venus in a night chart.

01:20:00 Speaker_01
And then the ruler of the 3rd house as well as the 2nd house is Saturn, which is actually conjunct the degree of the Ascendant in the night chart, which is a more difficult placement, but there is a strong mutual reception then and connection between the 1st and 3rd houses.

01:20:17 Speaker_01
So Earthic Hit is may not be as well-known to younger people, but she was this legendary singer and dancer and actress, as well as a writer, a comedian, and an activist. She had this really distinctive voice.

01:20:37 Speaker_01
If people are watching this on YouTube or wherever, I'd really encourage them to just stop, to pause, and just go to YouTube and look up Eartha Kitt voice.

01:20:46 Speaker_01
You'll see some examples of her where, for example, she is famous for the song Santa Baby, which is still sometimes played as a holiday song. She also played Catwoman in the Batman TV series in the 1960s and had this amazing cat voice.

01:21:07 Speaker_01
Then finally, more recently, some younger people may know her as the voice of Yzma from The Emperor's New Groove, which is an animated movie that she voiced in the year 2000.

01:21:23 Speaker_01
So she just has this crazy distinctive voice that as soon as you hear it, you'll be struck by it. It's very like Aquarian. But interestingly, she was also remarkably multilingual.

01:21:36 Speaker_01
She spoke four different languages fluently, English, French, German, and Dutch, but she also was able to sing in 11 different languages. So it's not just having a distinctive voice, but also have a fluency in languages.

01:21:52 Speaker_01
She also was an incredible writer, and she wrote four different autobiographies during the course of her life.

01:22:00 Speaker_01
There's something about autobiography in particular that seems to come up as a recurring theme I've noticed, where a number of our people that have, especially the ruler of the Ascendant or other major placements in the third house, have often written autobiographies about themselves.

01:22:17 Speaker_05
Right, and especially makes sense with the Ascendant ruler there. Yeah, in particular.

01:22:21 Speaker_01
Yeah, so she did have a really difficult really terrible life early on, a lot of which was stemming from having Saturn placed on the Ascendant in a night chart.

01:22:39 Speaker_01
One of the things was that it's ruling the second house, and she was born into just really extreme poverty, basically, where she had to deal with some really terrible things.

01:22:51 Speaker_01
With the ruler of the Ascendant in the third house, other terrible things she had to deal with is extreme racism. Interesting, a really uniquely terrible form of racism because she was biracial.

01:23:05 Speaker_01
She had a special form of type of racism that she received growing up that was unique to the fact that she was biracial. With the ruler of the Ascendant in the third

01:23:20 Speaker_01
Other tragedies that happened when she was growing up is that her mother may have been poisoned or essentially murdered by her stepsisters when Ertha was only eight years old, which is another way that the third house shows up in her life.

01:23:35 Speaker_01
Another way that the third house shows up is that her aunt saved her after that and brought her to New York.

01:23:43 Speaker_01
She actually rode a train to New York, and this was her first time seeing a big city because she was born into poverty out in the country in South Carolina.

01:23:53 Speaker_01
So her aunt sent her to school, and there she started making local friends at school and realizing that she had a unique voice.

01:24:02 Speaker_01
So a teacher at school encouraged her to go see a play at a theater, and this is what sparked her love for acting, so that she eventually started as a dancer and performer and singer, and then later transitioned into television.

01:24:19 Speaker_01
When she became successful, she supported Rebels with a Cause, which is a group of people working to improve their communities for young people through recreational projects and through cleaning up neighborhoods.

01:24:33 Speaker_01
So there was this real neighborhood and community component to her work.

01:24:39 Speaker_01
Later, she had this interesting thing where she was blacklisted after she spoke out against the Vietnam War, specifically at a White House luncheon on how to reduce crime that was hosted by the president's wife at the time, Lady Bird Johnson.

01:24:55 Speaker_01
There's actually a video, you should see it, where she spoke out to both Johnson and his wife directly. She's actually really brave to use her voice to speak out directly in that way. Johnson's wife, Lady Bird, was particularly angered.

01:25:13 Speaker_01
And I thought that was really interesting because one of the significations that all the Hellenistic astrologers give is the queen, that the third house signifies the queen.

01:25:22 Speaker_01
And that's not usually a very relevant signification anymore at this point, especially in the United States. But this is the one instance where it actually is relevant because she spoke directly to

01:25:33 Speaker_01
and angered and then got blacklisted specifically by essentially the functional equivalent of the queen in our country in the 1960s.

01:25:40 Speaker_05
That's really good, really good. And it really speaks to like the benefics being there in terms of being invited to be there with her at all, and yet it being ruled by the malefic contrary to sect and there being some negative repercussions.

01:25:53 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. So she was blacklisted. She had to escape to Europe.

01:25:57 Speaker_01
She did work doing anti-apartheid things during that time, but then eventually, over a decade later, she was eventually able to return and act on Broadway, and she was invited back to the White House by Jimmy Carter during his administration.

01:26:12 Speaker_01
So at this point, she acted in movies and did some major voice work in animated films, And then the last thing that was really in the animated films, you can look up this video of her doing the voice of Yasma in the Emperor's New Groove.

01:26:27 Speaker_01
And it's the most amazing thing. I'd recommend everybody listen to it because just her voice is so distinctive, but also so strong. And the animator in the video says that the voice performance is the soul of the character.

01:26:42 Speaker_01
So I thought that was really interesting that as a voice performer, she gave soul to this animated character.

01:26:48 Speaker_07
Mm-hmm.

01:26:49 Speaker_01
Right. And finally, her daughter says that when she passed away, that she left this, she quote unquote, left this world, literally screaming at the top of her lungs, and like using her voice, not,

01:27:04 Speaker_01
she didn't die violently, but just for some reason, it was like she was using her voice and almost like roaring almost at the very end of her life.

01:27:13 Speaker_01
So my summary of this example is that I think that her legacy serves as a reminder that our voices, whether through song, speech, or action, possess the power to move people, to inspire people, and sometimes to transform the world around us.

01:27:33 Speaker_05
Yep. Yeah. And that's like one of the more, I mean, if you just kind of set the Saturn aside, I mean, having both benefics in the third is like, that's how you get all of those really positive expressions of the third house in someone's life.

01:27:47 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. And I also love it because it's like they're in Aquarius and like her voice is kind of, it's kind of weird almost, but it's weird. It's weird in a good way. And that's like very Venus and Jupiter in Aquarius.

01:27:59 Speaker_05
Right. It's very like distinctive.

01:28:01 Speaker_01
CB Right, yeah. But then of course, dealing with a lot of hardship early in life with the ruler being on the Ascendant, Saturn and Nitra.

01:28:14 Speaker_01
Alright, so moving on to my next example, another area of people that use their voice that I found that was really striking sometimes is comedians, especially stand-up comedians. The most notable example that I found of that was Richard Pryor.

01:28:35 Speaker_01
who was born with Pisces rising, and the ruler of the Ascendant is Jupiter, which is located in Taurus in the third whole sign house, along with Saturn and Uranus.

01:28:48 Speaker_01
So you had Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus in the third house, and they're opposing Venus, Mars, and Mercury, which are all in Scorpio in the ninth house, and that becomes his central thing.

01:29:01 Speaker_01
So Richard Pryor was a comedian, and one of the insights I actually had when I was looking at comedians is comedians go and perform at their local club, and then they sort of hang out afterwards with each other at these clubs and build these communities, these local communities of comedians.

01:29:21 Speaker_01
And I think that's a major third house element for stand-up comedians, especially a few decades ago, but even to this day to some extent.

01:29:30 Speaker_05
Yeah, sometimes they are also touring, but usually more like in your country or your state or even your city. And so there's like that local travel component.

01:29:40 Speaker_05
And then they're just like speaking, like that's what they're doing is like speaking in front of people.

01:29:45 Speaker_01
Right, exactly.

01:29:47 Speaker_01
So Richard Pryor is widely regarded as one of the greatest and most important stand-up comedians in modern times, and I thought it was interesting that with Uranus in the third house that comedians often talk about him having revolutionized stand-up in different ways.

01:30:04 Speaker_01
So he has all sorts of accolades, where he won the Grammy for Best Comedy Album five times, he's the first person ever to be awarded the Mark Twain Prize for Humor, and he's consistently ranked.

01:30:18 Speaker_01
For example, in Comedy Central's list of all-time greatest stand-up comedians, he's ranked as number one, and he's also ranked as number one on a Rolling Stone list of the 50 best stand-up comics of all time. So ruler of the Ascendant in the third.

01:30:33 Speaker_05
Right, and interesting that it's actually that Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in a day chart especially, right?

01:30:37 Speaker_05
Because sometimes when people have that Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in a house, especially if it's a day chart because it's making both of those planets more positive then, it's like they're groundbreaking in some way.

01:30:49 Speaker_05
They're like starting a new cycle of something because that's one of the things that the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction and then the cycle does.

01:30:57 Speaker_01
Right. It's like the start of a new era.

01:31:00 Speaker_01
And in mundane astrology, we're used to, as astrologers, knowing that that's what Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions do, and that's what they've been used for for over 1,000 years to know the start of different eras either in 20-year periods or

01:31:15 Speaker_01
sometimes as much as thousand-year periods.

01:31:18 Speaker_01
But one of the things that came up as you're talking about it in some example charts is we've seen some instances of people that started a new era with respect to their chosen career field when they had a Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in a certain house in a chart.

01:31:31 Speaker_05
MS. Right, or with respect to a third house topic, and they started a new era of that thing. CB.

01:31:37 Speaker_01
Yeah, like the one we saw last, we'll see later, is Henry Ford. MS. Yep. The story with Richard Pryor is that he did a clean act at first because when he was coming up in comedy,

01:31:55 Speaker_01
Yeah, there was another comedian that was a clean actor, and he tried to imitate him. It was Bill Cosby, actually.

01:32:02 Speaker_01
And so in his 20s, he tried to imitate Bill Cosby and just do a clean act that would be as widely applicable as possible, especially to white audiences. And Richard Pryor was a Black man. So he did that because he wanted to have the widest appeal.

01:32:23 Speaker_01
But then what happened is at one point, he had an epiphany or almost like a breakdown on stage one night in 1967 when he was doing a show in Vegas.

01:32:34 Speaker_01
And he just looks at the audience and the faces of everyone in the audience, and then he's just like, what am I doing? he leaves the stage and he gets in a bunch of trouble.

01:32:43 Speaker_01
I think he loses his manager and loses a bunch of contracts, and he just goes on this sort of odyssey at this time, this inward odyssey, in order to find his voice.

01:32:57 Speaker_01
So this was September 15th of 1967, from what I can tell, is the day that he had this epiphany. And He goes on this odyssey, and there's a bunch of stuff transit-wise that's happening at this time. Let me put his chart back up.

01:33:15 Speaker_01
Okay, there is a chart with Taurus on the 3rd house. So he was 26 years old when this happened, so he was actually in a 3rd house perfection year that was activating all of those Taurus planets.

01:33:29 Speaker_01
And what happened additionally is that there was a solar eclipse that happened in Taurus in his 3rd house just four months earlier that was the start of this period of having a bunch of eclipses bouncing back and forth between his 3rd house and his 9th house.

01:33:47 Speaker_01
And he was also having major activations to his Uranus placement in the 3rd house at this time. So what he did is basically he stopped having a clean act.

01:33:58 Speaker_01
And one of the things that he did is he started using profanity and became this legendary comic that just used extreme profanity, which is really funny because he has a Mercury-Mars conjunction in Scorpio.

01:34:12 Speaker_01
That's kind of part of what's getting activated at that time, essentially.

01:34:16 Speaker_05
And the third house ruler conjunct Mars, like even more closely.

01:34:22 Speaker_01
Right. So I found one quote where it said that Richard Pryor was, quote, one of the most profane but also profound voices in comedy, which I thought was great with the ruler of the third in the ninth, but also like Mercury conjunct Mars.

01:34:38 Speaker_07
Right.

01:34:40 Speaker_01
So not long after this time, he went into his Saturn return that went through his third house, and he released his second album. And he basically developed his voice during this time, but he did it partially through finding community.

01:34:56 Speaker_01
So he left Hollywood and he went to Berkeley. And this is Berkeley in the late 1960s when there's all of this radical counterculture stuff that's starting to take place.

01:35:09 Speaker_01
In Berkeley, he said that he didn't have to worry about being too extreme either in his views or in his language.

01:35:17 Speaker_01
One of the Saturn elements in his third house is that he started talking about his shortcomings, his hardships, and the things that he really messed up with became a critical part of his act, his openness and vulnerability.

01:35:34 Speaker_01
And part of this included even talking about the rough neighborhoods that he grew up in. So he also had a really difficult upbringing where his grandmother actually was the primary one that raised him.

01:35:49 Speaker_01
And this was one of the examples that really made me think of like grandparents as a potential third house topic.

01:35:55 Speaker_05
Right. In terms of extended family.

01:35:58 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. And he, in school, his teacher is one of the people where his teacher gave him 10 minutes every afternoon to perform his like comedy routines.

01:36:09 Speaker_01
But then at one point, he got in a fight with a teacher in school, and he got kicked out of school. So he just left entirely. Anyway, in Berkeley, he developed his voice, he found community.

01:36:20 Speaker_01
Unfortunately, during his Saturn return, only a handful of clubs across the country were willing to book him with his new obscenity-laced act. There were other life-changing things at the time, like a divorce, both of his parents died.

01:36:34 Speaker_01
but eventually he emerged from this period with his own characteristic style and then hit his creative peak in the early to mid-1970s and subsequently influenced generations of comedians and became a legend in the comedy world.

01:36:50 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm.

01:36:51 Speaker_05
And that's really interesting in terms of like getting a start with, you know, in early schooling being allowed to do like a 10-minute act because not just the third house part itself, but Jupiter is both the ruler of the first house of self and the 10th house of career in the chart.

01:37:06 Speaker_05
And oftentimes when a planet rules two different houses in a chart, it like pulls those topics together into the place where it's actually sitting in, which is the third house in this case.

01:37:16 Speaker_05
So, it was like he got his start for his career literally like in early schooling time.

01:37:22 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah, exactly.

01:37:23 Speaker_01
And it had both good things happen of having a teacher that was supportive in that way, but then also had bad things that's happened of another teacher that was not supportive of it and was tired of him being a comedian or whatever and confronted him and then they got in a fight and it led to him being kicked out of school.

01:37:38 Speaker_05
Right. With a ruler, the third can closely conjunct Mars. It's like an interesting interplay going on with his benefics and malefics associated with the third.

01:37:46 Speaker_01
Yeah, as well as just even just Saturn in the third house and where even in a day chart like Saturn is more difficult for people when they're younger, but then later sometimes it can become a strength as they get older as it did for him eventually during and after his Saturn return when he found his voice.

01:38:02 Speaker_05
Right, for sure.

01:38:03 Speaker_01
Yeah. So that is my example of the ruler of the Ascendant and one of the most influential comedians of all time having the ruler of the Ascendant in the third house.

01:38:12 Speaker_05
That's great. That's a great example.

01:38:15 Speaker_01
Alright, so moving on to my next example is another comedian who I just want to mention a few brief points about very quickly, which is Jim Carrey.

01:38:24 Speaker_01
So I mentioned Jim Carrey briefly in the first house episode as somebody that has Neptune conjunct the Ascendant, but he also has the ruler of the Ascendant is Scorpio rising with Mars ruling the Ascendant placed in Capricorn in the third house conjunct Venus and the Sun, which are also in the third house.

01:38:45 Speaker_01
Jim Carrey is also a comedian, but something I sort of overlooked in the first House episode that I kind of forgot about is that he really started out, and his primary thing, especially if you see his early appearances on The Tonight Show and stuff, is that he was an impressionist.

01:39:02 Speaker_01
he's an impressionist. And with Neptune conjunct the Ascendant, he's able to contort his face and change his appearance into these wildly different characters.

01:39:13 Speaker_01
But what's interesting is that with the ruler of the Ascendant in the third house, one of his talents also is he has a talent for voices and doing different voices basically ever since he was a young kid.

01:39:26 Speaker_01
And one thing that's interesting with him is he's basically His primary thing, especially early on, was doing funny voices and also movements.

01:39:37 Speaker_01
Part of what he's imitating or creating is a speech style, and he was doing this since he was a very young kid.

01:39:45 Speaker_01
He said when he was a kid, he would stare into the mirror for hours practicing his impressions, and that it was fun to sit in his room and make faces and talk to himself in voices.

01:39:56 Speaker_01
One of my insights in researching him, I actually had a much longer write-up that I'm not going to get into, I might in a separate episode.

01:40:02 Speaker_01
He basically initially was an impressionist who became incredibly iconic and successful, so much so that you sort of forget that that was and still is his thing to a large extent, because it's kind of been obscured by his transition later on into dramatic acting, which he also was very good at and did a great job in.

01:40:23 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm. Right. Right. And so the voice and just focusing a lot on voicing different people was really focal to who he was.

01:40:33 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. So, of course, later he became frustrated because he views it all as a mask, and he thinks of Jim Carrey even as another impression that he was doing in some way that wasn't real, and that's led to some of his crises in recent years.

01:40:54 Speaker_01
Other interesting tidbits about him, he had a brother who was very important to him, especially growing up. And a few years ago in 2019, his brother actually passed away.

01:41:05 Speaker_01
And this occurred when Saturn was closely conjoining Jim's Mars and Capricorn almost to the degree. was having a Saturn transit when he lost his brother was very important to him.

01:41:17 Speaker_01
Other interesting facts, he won a speech contest in the sixth grade where he gave a speech about comedy, so another early schooling important thing.

01:41:27 Speaker_01
His teacher allowed him to make a 15-minute presentation for his class every day where he was doing his comedy routine and impressions, so another example of that. His original audience, aside from classmates what may have been his neighbors.

01:41:42 Speaker_01
Because he talks about doing these, not just presentations, but doing his acts basically for people that would come over to the house. But I think what's implied by that a lot is that it was entertaining his neighbors.

01:41:55 Speaker_01
But interestingly, his primary reason, he says, or motivation for comedy was that he had a sick mother and that he just wanted to make her feel better with comedy.

01:42:06 Speaker_01
And I thought that was really interesting with the ruler of the third house is Saturn, which is in the fourth house in a night chart. So the ruler of the third house of communication is in the fourth house of parents.

01:42:18 Speaker_01
And it's like part of his initial motivation for developing his comedic abilities was trying to help his mother who was suffering.

01:42:28 Speaker_05
Right. Yeah.

01:42:29 Speaker_05
And that is one of the ways where you can see the connections between two houses, if like the ruler of one is in the other, and the other would be like, I guess he was starting his voices and impressions for like neighbors at home, like in his home.

01:42:42 Speaker_01
Right. And then the last other really impressive thing is that at one point, part of his early story is that his dad lost his job. And at one point, the family had to live in a van for a period of time when he was younger.

01:42:56 Speaker_01
So literally, they lived out of like out of a car out of a vehicle.

01:42:59 Speaker_05
Yeah, right. Another ruler, the third and the fourth.

01:43:03 Speaker_01
Yeah. But eventually, once he grew up, he was the first star to have three films that grossed over $100 million in the same year, and he was the first actor to receive a $20 million paycheck for a single movie.

01:43:19 Speaker_01
So he grew up to be an iconic person where his communication style and his ability to not just use his voice and create different voices, but also his movements and stuff became part of his success.

01:43:35 Speaker_05
And he was another one like Richard Pryor where he had the Ascendant Ruler and Tenth House Ruler in the third, although in this case it was two different planets.

01:43:43 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's the ruler of the 10th house of careers and the third.

01:43:45 Speaker_01
And that's actually interesting because he tells a story about him and his father at one point that he said he actually part of his inspiration for comedy was his father because he said his father was wildly funny. And also him and his father

01:44:01 Speaker_01
tried to get into broadcasting early on, I think around the time that he was 15 or so, give or take, which would be like a Mars period.

01:44:09 Speaker_01
But they both went and took broadcasting classes basically because they wanted to get into show business or entertainment.

01:44:15 Speaker_04
That's cool. Yeah.

01:44:17 Speaker_01
Yeah. So a lot of different things manifest in different ways through those placements, but sometimes very literally. All right.

01:44:26 Speaker_01
Another one that I'll just mention in passing without going into is John Cleese, who's a famous comedian, writer, and actor who also has a very distinctive voice.

01:44:36 Speaker_01
He has Virgo rising with Mercury in Scorpio in the third house along with Venus and the Sun and is famous for Monty Python, but also for

01:44:48 Speaker_01
He does like audiobooks, he narrates documentaries, commercials and advertisements, and also animated films and television shows. So it's interesting because he has kind of like an iconic voice that's very distinctive in a different way.

01:45:04 Speaker_05
Right. And Mercury is, and again, ruling the 1st and the 10th conjunct the benefic of sacked Venus in the night chart in the 3rd.

01:45:13 Speaker_01
Yeah. And that takes us into, because he's also a comedy writer, and that takes us into the next section. I want to focus on writers.

01:45:20 Speaker_01
So an iconic writer in our community is Linda Goodman, who was born with Aries Rising and Mars in Gemini in the third house. And Linda Goodman wrote the best-selling astrology book in modern times, her book Sun Signs that came out in the late 1960s.

01:45:40 Speaker_01
And it's like everybody had this book basically, and it sold over 60 million copies worldwide. It's huge for any book, but it's unheard of for an astrology book.

01:45:53 Speaker_01
And it played a crucial role in helping to popularize astrology in the 20th century, making it more accessible and engaging for a broader audience.

01:46:02 Speaker_05
Right.

01:46:03 Speaker_05
And that's what you'll see sometimes with the Ascendant Ruler in the third or a 10th house connection with the third, since those are both of the most prominent places in the chart, is like they're sometimes they're like known for a book, either like one book or like a few books.

01:46:16 Speaker_05
But that's like sort of the summary of like who they are, who they are known as to like the public.

01:46:23 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. And she has other interesting things like she got paid some crazy advance for her second book because the first one was so successful that it set some records. It was like $10 million or something like that.

01:46:34 Speaker_01
It was like something really high that especially for the time was like unheard of.

01:46:39 Speaker_05
also has the ruler of the third and the second, so connecting your means of living in books.

01:46:46 Speaker_01
CB There you go. There's that chart again to show you. Yeah, so the ruler of the third is Mercury, which is placed in Taurus. Nice, as they say. All right.

01:46:59 Speaker_01
Moving on, the next one I want to talk about is Ursula Bloom, who is also a writer who had Cancer Rising and The Moon in Virgo in the third whole sign house conjunct the degree of the IC.

01:47:12 Speaker_01
And she was a British novelist, biographer, and journalist, and she wrote over 500 books throughout her career. So this is the opposite end of the spectrum. You're talking about the person that writes the one book.

01:47:27 Speaker_01
over 500 books throughout her career, so much so that the Guinness Book of World Records says that she's the world's most prolific female writer. So her third house is interestingly, it's ruled by a retrograde Mercury in Sagittarius, Kazemi.

01:47:43 Speaker_01
And I think that's what we're talking about writing a lot, like Sagittarius. LS So she primarily wrote romantic fiction and family sagas, which is kind of interesting, conjunct the IC. But she also delved into nonfiction, plays, and journalism.

01:48:02 Speaker_01
And some of her novels, which are often set in historical periods or featured strong female protagonists, oftentimes they captured the hearts of readers by having these really engaging narratives and really relatable characters.

01:48:17 Speaker_01
So she's not as popular these days, but her work's starting to see resurgence recently, and this renewed interest of her vast literary legacy that's emerging in recent years has started to recognize her as having a really significant contribution to popular fiction, as well as just her remarkable writing discipline.

01:48:41 Speaker_05
Yeah, and this is one where it's not a mutual reception with the Ascendant Ruler, but it is reception.

01:48:46 Speaker_05
So it's Ascendant Ruler is Moon and Virgo, and then that in turn is ruled by that Mercury and Sag, and they are in an aspect, even though it's not a mutual reception.

01:48:54 Speaker_05
And that in itself is oftentimes, again, a strengthening thing where, you know, something will be really notable about that area.

01:49:02 Speaker_01
Yeah, totally. Reception really helps all planets, including planets that are not well-placed. Like in the sign of their fall or detriment, it can really soften or cancel any difficult placements out.

01:49:16 Speaker_05
Right, which is the case here. I'm also laughing at the close square between the Mercury and Mars, which I think has got to be another piece of her prolific output because that's riding quickly, you know?

01:49:28 Speaker_01
Yeah, and having a lot of energy as well and drive. Yes. All right. So moving on, one other writer I want to mention really briefly is Agatha Christie, who had Sagittarius rising and the rulers Jupiter in Aquarius in the third house.

01:49:43 Speaker_01
And she also has Mars conjunct the degree of the Ascendant pretty closely. And Agatha Christie is one of the most influential and beloved mystery writers of all time, where she wrote detective fiction.

01:49:56 Speaker_01
And she's another prolific writer because she wrote over 66 detective novels and 14 short story collections. So she's really interesting because she has Saturn in the 10th house in Virgo ruling things.

01:50:11 Speaker_01
And she's usually lauded for her masterful storytelling that is filled with really intricate plots and suspenseful twists and clever red herrings, which just kind of enthralled readers across different generations.

01:50:25 Speaker_05
all the details. So writing with details.

01:50:28 Speaker_01
Exactly. Writing with details with the ruler of the third in the 10th in Virgo. And also just having Mars on the Ascendant and writing sometimes crime fiction is something I see come up a lot.

01:50:43 Speaker_05
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Mars is definitely a thing for that. Yeah.

01:50:46 Speaker_01
Yeah.

01:50:48 Speaker_05
Mars is the ruler of the fifth here. And I noticed as I was researching charts for this, there can sometimes be crossovers between the third and the fifth because the third is the literal expression or the writing of it.

01:50:59 Speaker_05
But the fifth is sometimes your creative output or artistic work or something. And so sometimes, you know, Like the opposite houses, for instance, sometimes there can be a little bit of a crossover, or if there's an aspect, it plays in more.

01:51:13 Speaker_05
And here there is at least a sign-based aspect between the ruler of the fifth and a Senate ruler in the third.

01:51:20 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. Good point. All right. Other authors I'm going to mention and flash their chart briefly but not talk about, Lewis Carroll, Lewis Carroll was a ruler of the Ascendant in the third example.

01:51:37 Speaker_01
Robert Louis Stevenson was a ruler of the Ascendant in the third. Oscar Wilde.

01:51:44 Speaker_04
Nice.

01:51:45 Speaker_01
William Faulkner. Those are our writers. There's many others that could be mentioned, but at this point, I want to transition into another category, which is writers and famous orators.

01:51:58 Speaker_01
One of the things I was looking up is some lists of what are some of the most famous speeches and speakers in history. And one of them that came up, oh yeah, I forgot to mention Kurt Vonnegut was also another ruler of the Ascendant and the Third.

01:52:15 Speaker_01
Anyway, speakers and orators, Winston Churchill is a ruler of the Ascendant and the Third person. He was born with Virgo rising and Mercury and Scorpio in the Third. His Ascendant is very late, so it's like it could be in Virgo, it could be in Libra.

01:52:30 Speaker_01
I feel pretty good that it's in Virgo. But just a heads up in terms of that in the round of time, but I think he had Virgo rising with Mercury and Scorpio. And part of the reason is that he was renowned for his powerful speeches and writing.

01:52:48 Speaker_01
And he's considered to have given some of the most inspiring and influential speeches in history. some of the most iconic speeches in history.

01:52:57 Speaker_01
The one that's at the top of many lists is one that's referred to as We Shall Fight on the Beaches that he gave in 1940.

01:53:07 Speaker_01
And Mercury was exactly conjunct the midheaven degree at 29 Gemini when he gave this speech, which is another good reason to think that he has 29 Gemini rising or something very close to there. And Virgo, yeah.

01:53:22 Speaker_01
And this speech rallied the British people in the face of the eminent threat of a German invasion. And Churchill's unwavering resolve and determination instilled courage and resilience.

01:53:34 Speaker_01
And some of that's coming through the Scorpio, the fixed Scorpio placements of the ruler of his ascendant being there in Scorpio.

01:53:42 Speaker_05
Yeah, absolutely. People with Mercury and Scorpio, especially if it's ruling the Ascendant, they often have really powerful, impactful ways of speaking. It really stands out.

01:53:56 Speaker_06
Yeah, I agree.

01:54:00 Speaker_05
Not that you're biased or anything.

01:54:01 Speaker_01
No. Purely objective. Right. So outside of that speech or other speeches that he gave, because he's given a number of other famous speeches, his ability to communicate effectively as a politician was essential to his success.

01:54:17 Speaker_01
And he could sway public opinion by debating fiercely in parliament and negotiating with other world leaders, as he did, especially in World War II, where his communication skills were vital, both in maintaining morale, but also galvanizing support for the war effort.

01:54:36 Speaker_01
And his radio broadcasts and public appearances provided a sense of hope and determination during a time of great darkness.

01:54:45 Speaker_01
Interestingly, even after World War II, Churchill wrote extensively on the history of World War II, including his own memoirs and a multi-volume history of World War I and World War II. So he was actually

01:55:01 Speaker_01
lauded for his ability to communicate complex historical events in a clear and engaging manner, which cemented his legacy as a historian, so much so that he actually won the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1953 for his mastery of historical and biographical description.

01:55:20 Speaker_05
That's really interesting, you know, with both the Sun and Venus in a night chart in the fourth house of like the past and history often goes there.

01:55:28 Speaker_05
And then the ruler of his third is that Jupiter very closely sextile Venus with reception, you know, from the fourth house.

01:55:36 Speaker_01
Right. That connection between those two.

01:55:38 Speaker_05
Right. So like writing about historical topics like makes so much sense.

01:55:42 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure.

01:55:43 Speaker_01
This is a good example to me because I think communication was not just a tool for Churchill, but it was at the core of his identity and his achievements, and that his mastery of language and oratory shaped his political career, his leadership during wartime, and his enduring legacy as a writer and a historian.

01:56:07 Speaker_05
Because sometimes you think, oh, communication, it's a topic, but whatever. But sometimes people can use communication to very persuasive ends, and then it can actually impact the world, like in this case.

01:56:19 Speaker_01
Yeah, like famous speeches. Sometimes you can change the world with the power of your voice and with the persuasiveness of your speech. And yeah, that was my best example of that, but there's many, many others.

01:56:35 Speaker_01
All right, so now I want to transition into another section on singers, which is another category of people that use their voice in powerful ways.

01:56:46 Speaker_01
So my first example in this section is Patsy Cline, who is a famous American singer who was born with Gemini rising and Mercury in Leo in the third whole sign house along with Venus.

01:57:03 Speaker_01
So she's considered to be one of the most influential vocalists of the 20th century and was one of the first country music artists to cross over into pop music, basically.

01:57:15 Speaker_01
It's like we take that for granted now with people like Taylor Swift and even Beyonce's recent album earlier this year, the Patsy Cline was literally one of the first.

01:57:27 Speaker_01
So she had several major hits during the course of her only eight-year recording career, including two number one hits on Billboard, Hot Country, and Western Sides charts.

01:57:39 Speaker_01
But unfortunately, in March of 1963, she was killed in a plane crash when she was only 30 years old, and when she died, transiting Mars was actually retrograde in her third house. Yeah.

01:57:56 Speaker_05
It's interesting though, her Ascendant Ruler being in the third, even if it's widely co-present, which this is almost as widely co-present as you can get by degree.

01:58:05 Speaker_05
It's the beginning and the end of Leo, but it's still co-present with Venus in a night chart, which is the most positive placement. That's how you get really renowned positivity around one's voice.

01:58:18 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah, for sure.

01:58:20 Speaker_01
Yeah, Mercury is at 29 and Venus is at zero, but as long as they're in the same sign, they're rubbing off on each other just like two people that are living in the same house would rub off on each other even if they're living on opposite ends of like a mansion.

01:58:34 Speaker_05
Right. Like it's a really good illustration of co-presence still being really important.

01:58:38 Speaker_01
Totally. definitely.

01:58:40 Speaker_01
All right, so for a more recent example for people that are not familiar with decades ago country singers, here's a more recent example with Katy Perry who has Scorpio rising and the ruler of the Ascendant is Mars in Capricorn in the third house along with Jupiter.

01:59:01 Speaker_01
And interestingly, The third house is ruled by Saturn, which is actually in Scorpio in the first.

01:59:07 Speaker_01
So this is actually, from a technical standpoint, the most striking example of a singer because she has a mutual reception between the first and the third.

01:59:16 Speaker_01
So it's one of those examples then that theoretically, from a technical standpoint, should really stand out as being notable from that standpoint. Indeed, it does, because she's globally recognized as a singer, songwriter, and television personality.

01:59:34 Speaker_01
She's actually one of the best-selling music artists of all time. She's the first female artist to have five number one Billboard Hot 100 songs from one album, second only to Michael Jackson, to achieve that feat out of anybody.

01:59:50 Speaker_01
She's also one of the highest earning women in music. In 2018, she topped the Forbes list for highest paid women in music with an earnings of $83 million.

02:00:00 Speaker_01
She also is one of the few people in the world to have performed at the Super Bowl, and she was a judge on American Idol.

02:00:08 Speaker_01
So there's some interesting religious themes that I kind of wonder if are coming from her third house, because she actually grew up in a very strict religious upbringing, basically.

02:00:21 Speaker_01
And part of her story was about growing up and rebelling and moving away to Hollywood, essentially, or to Los Angeles. Her first album was doing Christian music, basically.

02:00:37 Speaker_01
And then with her second album, she broke from that and she did a pop album, basically, and then became wildly successful.

02:00:45 Speaker_05
That's really interesting. Saturn being the ruler of the third and the first and conjunct the ruler of the ninth very closely.

02:00:52 Speaker_01
Yeah. And it's tricky because it's like the ruler of the Ascendant is Mars in a day chart. So she's had a number of controversies and backlash that's sometimes arising from doing things that are not very good.

02:01:07 Speaker_01
And she's actually going through one of those right now and transiting Mars as opposing some of her stuff. It's going through cancer right now, opposing her Mars and opposing her Jupiter. And there's some not good things going on. But

02:01:22 Speaker_01
But nonetheless, it's a prominent example of a famous third house singer and performer, basically.

02:01:27 Speaker_05
For sure.

02:01:30 Speaker_01
CB Yeah. So in a similar vein, another person that's performed at the Super Bowl that has the ruler of the Ascendant in the 3rd is Usher.

02:01:37 Speaker_01
So Usher has Virgo rising and the ruler of the Ascendant is Mercury, which is in Scorpio in the 3rd house along with a stellium of planets of Uranus, Mars, and Venus all in the 3rd house.

02:01:53 Speaker_01
And I love this as an example because he's often referred to as the king of R&B. He also performed at the Super Bowl. He has all sorts of accolades, a total of eight different Grammy Awards, nine number one singles. all sorts of other stuff.

02:02:10 Speaker_01
But what's funny is like, he's widely recognized for his sexy songs, basically, with Mercury and all of those planets in Scorpio.

02:02:18 Speaker_01
And his image is of like a charismatic and sensual R&B artist, where, you know, many of his biggest hits are kind of like, known for their romantic themes, smooth vocals and suggestive lyrics. So I thought that was pretty funny.

02:02:36 Speaker_01
And while he's explored other themes, of course, and like musical styles throughout his career, like his sexy songs have sort of undoubtedly become a sort of defining element of his musical legacy, and has helped to cement his status, both as kind of like a heartthrob or a romantic icon, and continue to also just be enjoyed by fans across generations with him performing really recently at the Super Bowl.

02:03:04 Speaker_05
Yeah, it's a great example of like your vocal style or like what your voice is known for, right?

02:03:11 Speaker_01
Yeah, when it's like different people because especially having a Venus-Mars conjunction there imports that but also having it in Scorpio but just sometimes

02:03:19 Speaker_01
We're showing all these different examples of third house placements or the ruler of the third, but sometimes we're not showing how it can really be flavored by the quality of the zodiac sign that they're in or other factors like that, but it can really come into play in distinctive ways sometimes.

02:03:35 Speaker_05
Yeah, for sure. This is a good example of that.

02:03:39 Speaker_01
All right. Other miscellaneous singers that I won't get into that have the ruler of the Ascendant and the third, Julie Andrews, Luciano Pavarotti, Tom Waits, Martin Gay, and also Shirley Manson of Garbage, who was the front singer of Garbage.

02:03:55 Speaker_01
So I thought that was all good, but those are my singers. There's many more that we can mention, but we will not for the sake of time. Yeah. So the next section I wanted to move on to is about travel, movement, and mobility.

02:04:10 Speaker_01
I have a funny transitional one that somebody on Twitter sent in, actually, which is the birth chart. I didn't know we had a time birth chart for Charlie XCX who has Cancer rising and the Moon is in Virgo in the third house along with Jupiter.

02:04:32 Speaker_01
And this was sent in by shout out to the astrologer Lola on Twitter for this example, but Charlie XCX is an English singer and songwriter. And

02:04:45 Speaker_01
What Lola pointed out is that her discography is notable for repeated and frequent mentions of cars, so several of her song titles, lyrics, and even her name of her record label, which is Vroom Vroom Recordings, reference cars.

02:05:01 Speaker_05
Yeah, when we were talking about which charts to include in the final list, I was like, you have to include this one briefly, just so I can laugh at it. Because not laugh at it, like laugh with it.

02:05:11 Speaker_05
Because it's just such a funny, literal, like vroom vroom recording. And that's like, she's got the connection between her third and her second house. So it's like, that's like her means of making a living. She labeled like vroom vroom recordings.

02:05:26 Speaker_01
I should need to add that to the significations list from earlier in the lecture.

02:05:31 Speaker_04
Yes, I think so.

02:05:33 Speaker_01
Yeah. I think that was actually what Vettius Valens meant in Greek when he was describing the third house. There's this one obscure Greek term. Yeah.

02:05:41 Speaker_05
I just have to translate it carefully.

02:05:43 Speaker_01
Exactly. Anyways, so I thought it was a good example because it's a great transition. I'm a fan of good transitions and that was an amazing one into this area from singers to people where mobility and transportation is important to them.

02:05:58 Speaker_01
One of my favorite examples of this that I've always used in my lectures, like in my book and my courses is Evel Knievel, the famous stuntman who would drive motorcycles and jump them over buses and cliffs and stuff like that.

02:06:14 Speaker_01
He was born with Aquarius rising, and the ruler of the Ascendant is Saturn, which is located in Aries in the third whole sign house.

02:06:22 Speaker_01
And the ruler of the third house of travel and the 10th house of career is Mars, which is actually in the 8th house of death. And what's hilarious about that is he was always doing these death-defying stunts, or jumping over stuff.

02:06:38 Speaker_01
But oftentimes, he would sometimes crash and injure himself, so it didn't always necessarily go well, because he would sometimes have these spectacular crashes and serious injuries.

02:06:50 Speaker_01
But nonetheless, his fearless spirit and flamboyant personality made him a cultural icon.

02:06:57 Speaker_05
Yeah, and that's so interesting and evocative with the Ascendant Ruler being Saturn and Aries in the third and then ruled by that Mars because not just the connection between the third and the eighth and like the death-defying stunts, but just yeah, the Ascendant Ruler being in Aries.

02:07:12 Speaker_05
It's like that's that like courageous piece, right?

02:07:15 Speaker_01
Yeah, totally. One of the things that's cool about this example too is it shows the protective function of the benefic sometimes because he has Jupiter in the first house of the body, which just being placed there is helping him out to not die

02:07:30 Speaker_01
from or be seriously injured from some of these stunts. And it also has a superior sextile over Saturn. And even Venus is up here and it has a superior trine over Saturn, the ruler of the Ascendant.

02:07:44 Speaker_01
So I love that example because it also shows the protective function and power of the benefics because he could have died or been seriously injured from some of these stunts. But

02:07:55 Speaker_01
It wasn't the worst case scenario when he was, and there'll be other examples I'll show later of people where it was more serious in terms of their injuries.

02:08:06 Speaker_05
And you can see the benefics are definitely doing that and playing a major role because otherwise, it's the Ascendant ruler ruled by Mars in a day chart in the eighth house of death, right? So clearly he was getting some help and protection elsewhere.

02:08:21 Speaker_01
Yeah. Although it's interesting that Mars is like conjunct Neptune and I almost wonder if part of the mystique is creating the illusion of almost dying or that he could die or something like that, but then not. Anyway, so let's see.

02:08:38 Speaker_01
So moving on, my next example, let's stop. All right. Let me share my next example here, which is Dale Earnhardt Jr. it is, was born with Leo rising. Oh, wait, I got the wrong chart. There it is. That's his father.

02:08:58 Speaker_01
So here's Dale Earnhardt Jr., who was born with Virgo rising and Mercury and Scorpio in the 3rd house, also ruling the 10th house of career. And Dale Earnhardt Jr. is an American stock car race driver team owner, and also later, broadcaster.

02:09:15 Speaker_01
So he holds the record for winning NASCAR's most popular driver award for 15 consecutive times, which is kind of like a testament to how widespread his appeal and fan base was when he was racing.

02:09:27 Speaker_01
And then later, after retiring from full-time racing, he transitioned into a broadcasting role to be a broadcaster commenting on races and things like that.

02:09:39 Speaker_01
He's also a New York Times bestselling author and is successful for his memoir that was titled Racing to the Finish, My Story, which is a great title.

02:09:48 Speaker_04
I love that title.

02:09:50 Speaker_01
He also wrote a series of children's books that were very car and racing themed. And then finally, he has an older sister named Kelly that plays a major role in his life who both took care of him growing up and that he was close to.

02:10:05 Speaker_01
but also later became his business partner, confidant, advisor, and had a shared passion for racing.

02:10:14 Speaker_07
That's good.

02:10:15 Speaker_01
Yeah. Another one of those examples where sibling's important, writing, broadcasting, and most importantly, racing and going fast.

02:10:23 Speaker_05
Right.

02:10:23 Speaker_05
And it's funny with both the race car driving and the broadcasting, because sometimes when people sometimes when you see people kind of have a career transition and they end up doing something that seems like totally different, like like broadcasting seems totally different than like race car driving, for instance.

02:10:39 Speaker_05
That's sometimes why, because they're like multiple topics in the same house.

02:10:43 Speaker_01
Yeah, multiple topics in the same house. And sometimes he's commenting on racing, so it's like he's still focused on racing in some way, but just in a different capacity. Yeah. All right, so moving on, my next example is a little bit more depressing.

02:11:04 Speaker_01
So this is the birth chart of John F. Kennedy Jr., who had Virgo rising with Pluto conjunct the Ascendant along with the North Node, and Mercury, the ruler of the Ascendant, is in Scorpio and the third house conjunct Neptune.

02:11:20 Speaker_01
So he was the son of President John F. Kennedy, and the native was known for his adventurous spirit and for a love of outdoor activities. So he liked to go flying, he liked cycling, hiking, scuba diving, rollerblading, paragliding.

02:11:37 Speaker_01
This guy basically did everything involving movement that you can imagine.

02:11:43 Speaker_01
Additionally, in the 1990s, he started a magazine called George, which was trying to bridge the gap between politics and pop culture, and he served as the editor-in-chief in this monthly periodical or magazine, basically, from 1995 forwards.

02:12:03 Speaker_01
Additionally, as a Kennedy and part of the Kennedy family, he had a very large extended family. In his biography, I noticed he was very close in particular to one cousin named Anthony, and they were said to be like brothers.

02:12:20 Speaker_01
In fact, when John F. Kennedy Jr. passed away, his cousin passed away within a month of him, basically. They both died within a month of each other.

02:12:33 Speaker_04
That's really striking.

02:12:35 Speaker_01
Yeah. So John F. Kennedy Jr., of course, nowadays is known most for that he famously died in a plane crash on July 16th, 1999. And what was happening is that he was piloting a small plane that crashed into the ocean near Martha's Vineyard.

02:12:54 Speaker_01
And he was actually headed to his cousin's wedding at the time. So there's like a cousin theme that shows up. Unfortunately, his wife, Carolyn, and her sister, Lori, were also on board.

02:13:07 Speaker_01
And what happened, they think, is that he crashed due to spatial disorientation while flying at night over water, and that he lost control of the aircraft during a descent in hazy conditions, which is pretty striking because Mercury is conjunct Neptune, of course, in his natal chart.

02:13:30 Speaker_01
So, in terms of transits, he was 38 years old when he passed away, so he was actually in a third house perfection year that was activating that Mercury-Neptune conjunction in his third house.

02:13:41 Speaker_01
And when he passed away, Mars had actually recently ingressed into his third house, so he was having a negative Mars transit through his third house of travel when he accidentally crashed the airplane and died.

02:13:57 Speaker_01
Additionally, there were other transits like Saturn was at 15 Scorpio opposing his Mercury, Uranus was at 15 Aquarius in his sixth house squaring his Mercury, and even Mercury in the sky had recently stationed retrograde, I believe, in his 12th house squaring his Neptune closely.

02:14:14 Speaker_01
So it was just this huge combination of different bad transits that were all hitting that Mercury placement.

02:14:22 Speaker_05
Yeah. And interestingly, Mars also natally rules both the third and the eighth house, and death is one of the eighth house topics. And then that Mars natally is within a few degrees opposed Saturn in a night chart.

02:14:35 Speaker_05
So it's not to say that that was always happening with his third house topics, but at least at one point in his life.

02:14:42 Speaker_01
Yeah. And one of the things that sucks is his cousin, Anthony, had cancer. And so John was actually working on the eulogy for his cousin's funeral when he died. And then his cousin ended up dying, like I said, within a month.

02:14:59 Speaker_01
So it's like that's also showing up there as a factor as well when you're mentioning that third house ruler also ruling the eighth and being placed in the 11th opposite Saturn.

02:15:09 Speaker_05
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

02:15:12 Speaker_01
So there's other stuff there, but I think that's it for that example. There's one last example in the mobility section which is important and very famous, and this is the birth chart of Christopher Reeve. Do you want to take this one?

02:15:26 Speaker_05
Oh, sure. So Christopher Reeve, he has Leo rising with a son in Libra in the third house. He also has a stellium in the third house. So that is, sorry, the charts not fully showing up for me for a second. He has a stellium in the third house though. And

02:15:44 Speaker_05
So what was interesting about him, you know, before he had his sort of famous accident later was it seemed like in his life story modes of transportation kept coming up in different ways. So he was like a glider pilot, just recreationally.

02:15:57 Speaker_05
He rode horses. And I just thought I was like, I don't think this is a stretch because just like some of the other actors like and how that showed up in their charts. One of the most iconic things he was known for as an actor was flying, right?

02:16:14 Speaker_05
And I was like, yes, that's not technically a mode of transportation currently that is possible. Nonetheless, it was a mode of transportation in the movies. And I think that actually really counts.

02:16:25 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. I mean, actors sometimes play out their charts and he's literally the guy that could fly around Superman in the movies.

02:16:32 Speaker_05
Right, exactly. So I thought that was actually pretty funny and evocative. So he's got Sun, Mercury, Kazemi there, Saturn, Neptune, and Venus. And then later on, he had a major accident. He was horseback riding. So it was, again, a third house thing.

02:16:50 Speaker_05
As an aside, I was like wondering where horses go. And I think it was the mode of transportation that was going on. So it wasn't his pet horse, which would be like a sixth house thing. It wasn't like a wild horse, which would be a 12th house thing.

02:17:02 Speaker_05
Anyway, in case anyone is wondering about us talking about that with the third house, I think that's why.

02:17:08 Speaker_05
So he was thrown from his horse and landed on his head, which resulted in a severe spinal cord injury that left him paralyzed from the neck down. And you noted that an eclipse happened in his third house actually one month before the accident, right?

02:17:22 Speaker_01
Yeah, it was the first in a series of eclipses that would take place there over the next two years, which was wild just that there was an eclipse that act as like an omen in his third house for this event that was about to take place only a few weeks before it happened.

02:17:37 Speaker_01
And then he would have a series of additional eclipses there as the extent of what had happened became clear.

02:17:45 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm, exactly. And so this is one of those where it's because it's the Ascendant ruler there that like these different forms of mobility and then eventual like challenges to mobility came up as like a major life topic.

02:18:00 Speaker_05
It's also that like Venus and Saturn are there in a night chart. And so Venus is like the positive manifestations and then Saturn was the later like challenges around that.

02:18:10 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's Saturn in a night chart, so it's the most more difficult Saturn. And then Venus is ruling the 10th house of career, and it's in the third house in its own domicile in the third.

02:18:22 Speaker_01
So you have the most positive planet and the most negative planet in that area, and so you kind of get both. But one of the reasons I was

02:18:32 Speaker_01
He was also in a Saturn perfection year when the accident happened, so Saturn is actually the planet activated as the Time Lord for that year.

02:18:38 Speaker_01
But one of the reasons I always have used as an example, because it's not just negative, but there's also some inspiration and hope because he became a tireless advocate for spinal cord injury research and disability rights after his injury and after becoming paralyzed for the rest of his life.

02:18:57 Speaker_01
and he ended up founding the Christopher and Dana Reeve Foundation, which continues to support research and improve the quality of life for those living with paralysis.

02:19:08 Speaker_05
Which is really interesting also with the ruler of the 6th house in the 3rd house, 6th house like body and sometimes injuries or illness, which is that Saturn.

02:19:20 Speaker_01
Yeah.

02:19:20 Speaker_01
So it's both someone who's in some sense, and that became the contrast later in life that the news stories and ones that were already contrasts is he was the man that flew in the movies, but then later became unable to move or had limited mobility later in life.

02:19:41 Speaker_01
But nonetheless, part of the legacy of his life by setting up those

02:19:46 Speaker_01
foundations and nonprofits, maybe hopefully at some point in order to help make progress so that other people may be able to regain some degree of mobility in the future through some of that research at some point.

02:20:01 Speaker_05
Yeah, it could be. And especially with a Venus being the 10th house ruler in the third, which is his most positive planet.

02:20:08 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. All right. my mobility section. And I just have one more chart example I wanted to do in this final section where I wanted to talk about neighbors and neighborhood.

02:20:23 Speaker_01
And I actually had this great quote from Bell Hooks in her book, All About Love, where she has this entire chapter, I think it's like chapter eight, where she's talking about community and

02:20:39 Speaker_01
One of the quotes that I wanted to pull out, because the entire chapter is actually amazing, and it gave me a lot of insight into the third house.

02:20:45 Speaker_01
Even though she wasn't talking about astrology, the way she wove together themes of community with other topics I thought was super insightful actually. So I'd recommend reading chapter eight of her book, All About Love.

02:20:57 Speaker_01
But the quote says this, it said, Quote, we are all born into the world of community. Rarely, if ever, does a child come into the world in isolation with only one or two onlookers.

02:21:11 Speaker_01
Children are born into a world surrounded by the possibility of communities. Family, doctors, nurses, midwives, and even admiring strangers comprise this field of connections, some more intimate than others.

02:21:27 Speaker_01
So that's my transitional point in talking about the third house can sometimes represent your neighborhood and your community and the city that you sort of grow up in or are living in at the time.

02:21:43 Speaker_01
For some people, that's going to be more or less important if they have important placements placed there. One of the things that was interesting that arose during our research, it's kind of hard with these major celebrity charts to find examples of

02:21:58 Speaker_01
ones where their neighborhood was important to them or where they had good or bad things happening with their neighbors. It's something that does come up if you follow your own chart or transit.

02:22:07 Speaker_01
If you have a difficult transit going through your third house, sometimes you'll have problems with neighbors, or if you have a good transit, sometimes something positive will happen with a neighbor or what have you.

02:22:17 Speaker_01
But one access point for understanding it that I did see is when the ruler of the Ascendant is in the 3rd house, sometimes a person can become involved in organizational efforts in their community.

02:22:29 Speaker_01
And one interesting example of that that I found actually a prominent one was Gavin Newsom. He was born with Virgo rising and Mercury in Scorpio in the 3rd whole sign house.

02:22:45 Speaker_01
story is interesting because he was born in San Francisco, and then eventually later in life, he became the 42nd mayor of San Francisco for a number of years. So imagine being born in a place and then rising up through the ranks of

02:23:03 Speaker_01
local organizing to eventually become the mayor who's in charge of the entire city. And what's interesting is that he was having eclipses in his third house the year that he became mayor in 2003-2004.

02:23:17 Speaker_01
So eventually, he would go on to become the governor of California and go up to an even higher level of local governance. But I thought this is interesting just because the Hellenistic texts

02:23:31 Speaker_01
A number of them talk about governing and leadership and authority as significations of the 3rd and 9th houses. I was sometimes perplexed by that, but in doing this research, I've come to understand why.

02:23:44 Speaker_01
It's because sometimes when important planets are placed in the 3rd house, it means getting involved in your local community. And sometimes that can be as little as being a community organizer or being on an HOA board or something like that.

02:23:57 Speaker_01
But if you take it to its utmost extremes, sometimes being in a position of power or authority in your local community could be something like this, which is like becoming the mayor of a city.

02:24:09 Speaker_05
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Your city can really show up there, whether it's just like personal interest or, you know, professional here. It's the Senate ruler and the 10th House ruler in the third. So it's like he became the mayor of the city because of that.

02:24:22 Speaker_05
And sometimes you just see people who just like really care about their local community and are like much more involved in local community events and things like that than like the average person.

02:24:34 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. And sometimes it can be a stepping stone to other things, of course, like George W. Bush famously started out as the governor of Texas before he became president. And he has a moon-Jupiter-Neptune conjunction in his third house.

02:24:52 Speaker_05
And like if you just live in a place, because I've lived in a place like this before, where there's just like a lot of focus on local community, and sometimes there will be someone who's like the unofficial mayor of the town, right?

02:25:02 Speaker_05
And it's not like they're the official mayor of the town. They're just like known for being all about the community. It can be that kind of vibe.

02:25:10 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and we've all known things like that, but the fact that you can access that dimension of things with astrology is really interesting and really important, but it's something that's subtler and a little bit harder to track.

02:25:26 Speaker_01
But you can track it locally if you're paying attention to your own chart or the charts of people around you.

02:25:31 Speaker_05
Right, for sure.

02:25:32 Speaker_01
Cool. All right. Well, that brings us to the end of our first section, so why don't we take a little break?

02:25:38 Speaker_01
All right, so we are actually releasing a PDF that contains our research notes that we prepared as we were getting ready for this episode over the past couple of weeks, and that's going to be available as a 75-page PDF download.

02:25:54 Speaker_01
You can actually access that either by becoming a patron of The Astrology Podcast through our page on Patreon, or you can access it as a separate download without becoming a patron.

02:26:04 Speaker_01
So this PDF contains bonus material where there was a lot of research that went into each of these biographies, and sometimes we found a bunch of additional points that we didn't include for each individual chart that we talked about just because we didn't have time to include everything.

02:26:24 Speaker_01
There's bonus material about the stories that we did cover, and the write-up also contains a number of additional chart examples that we cut from this episode or that we didn't get into due to time constraints.

02:26:39 Speaker_01
It has a ton of bonus material, so if you really want to go deeper into this material, it's a very helpful little PDF that has a nice table of contents so that you can

02:26:50 Speaker_01
have sort of like a written reference guide to refer back to both as you're listening through this episode as well as if you want to go back to and review some stuff in the future without having to re-watch the entire video.

02:27:03 Speaker_01
So you can get access to that by going to our page on patreon.com slash astrology podcast and finding the entry for this episode on the third house. And there you'll see that you can either sign up to become a patron

02:27:15 Speaker_01
in order to support this work and support this research that we're doing. Or you can just buy the PDF outright by purchasing just this episode.

02:27:26 Speaker_01
So this really helps us because it's from our patrons, the patrons that support and donate to the podcast each month that we're actually able to do these huge workshops on astrology for free.

02:27:39 Speaker_01
And that's basically what's funding these episodes in order to be able to devote all the time to the research that was necessary for this instead of putting everything behind a paywall.

02:27:51 Speaker_01
That's also allowed me to hire some additional assistants that have helped to research things for me or help me do additional research. Basically, it's been a huge thing.

02:28:03 Speaker_01
If you support this work and you'd like to help support me get through the rest of this series on The Houses, then please consider becoming a patron.

02:28:12 Speaker_01
When you sign up and become a patron, you get access to other bonus stuff like early access to new episodes, the ability to attend live recordings and workshops sometimes.

02:28:23 Speaker_01
We've been doing a workshop on the houses where I interviewed different patrons about their house placements. Each time I do one of these new house episodes, and those have been a lot of fun. We also have a monthly electional astrology podcast.

02:28:38 Speaker_01
And for the higher tier patrons, we have an entire exclusive podcast series called The Secret Astrology Podcast.

02:28:46 Speaker_01
And there I actually recorded an entire bonus episode that was two hours long on different third house birth charts that didn't make it into this episode at all. So that's an entire bonus episode on the third house that's only available to patrons.

02:29:03 Speaker_01
And then finally, you can also get your name listed in the credits if you become a patron as well. So you can find out more information at patreon.com slash astrology podcast.

02:29:14 Speaker_01
And I'll put a direct link to the Patreon page where you can buy a PDF of the show notes for this episode in the description below this video on YouTube or on the podcast website in the entry for this episode. So check it out there.

02:29:31 Speaker_01
All right, now we're going to transition into talking about the rulers of the houses in the third house or the ruler of the third house in different houses, because this is where you start seeing interconnections in the chart between different parts of the person's life and the third house.

02:29:48 Speaker_05
Yeah, we have a lot of cool examples in this section in particular.

02:29:52 Speaker_01
Yeah, this is one where I had more examples in the Ruler of the Ascendant section, but you've got a lot more examples that you found in the Rulers of the Houses. All right, so let's start with the 1st house.

02:30:05 Speaker_01
The 1st house, often people's names become indelibly associated with what they created with this house. And that's something I tried to explain a little bit in the 1st house episode, but it's sometimes hard to explain until you actually see it.

02:30:21 Speaker_01
And I have two excellent examples of that that really demonstrate that principle right at the top. So we're talking about in our 1st one, the ruler of the third house in the first house.

02:30:37 Speaker_01
So my first example of that is Enzo Ferrari, who is the creator of the Ferrari luxury car line, basically. He was a car enthusiast and a race car enthusiast and a race car driver. He was born with Sagittarius rising and the ruler of the Ascendant

02:31:01 Speaker_01
he's in Libra, but he has a stellium of four planets in Aquarius in the third whole sign house.

02:31:08 Speaker_01
He has a Mercury-Mars conjunction in early Aquarius, and then he has an exact Sun-Venus conjunction or Kazemi at 29 degrees of Aquarius, and then the ruler of the third house of

02:31:21 Speaker_01
movement of cars in this context is Saturn, which is located at 11 degrees of Sagittarius, conjunct the Ascendant at around 15 degrees of Sagittarius.

02:31:35 Speaker_01
His car company was named after him, and now his name has become synonymous with fast race cars and luxury cars, the name Ferrari.

02:31:48 Speaker_05
Right. Yeah. So basically a mode of transportation is like indelibly connected with like your personal identity with ruler of the third and the first.

02:31:57 Speaker_01
Exactly. So that's what happens. And it's also funny that it's in Sagittarius, that the ruler of the third is in Sagittarius and his descendants in Sagittarius. And Sagittarius is like the centaur, which is like half man and half horse.

02:32:12 Speaker_01
And of course, the prancing horse emblem is like this globally recognized symbol at this point of the Ferrari brand.

02:32:21 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's really funny and even extra literal.

02:32:24 Speaker_01
Yeah, I thought that was good. All right, so moving on, we can also see obviously how third house things are very important to him.

02:32:33 Speaker_01
All right, so moving on, the next example, I had another example like that, which is the birth chart of Maria Montessori, who was born with Leo rising. And the third house is Libra, where we find Mercury in that house.

02:32:48 Speaker_01
And the ruler of the third house is Venus, which is conjunct the Ascendant and Leo. So Venus is at 12 Leo and the Ascendant is around 15 degrees of Leo. It's a rounded 3.30 AM time, but Venus is somewhere on the Ascendant basically.

02:33:06 Speaker_01
If you've ever heard of Montessori schools, they're named after this woman, Maria Montessori, who was an educator who created this way of teaching children.

02:33:25 Speaker_01
Her goal was to empower children to become independent and to have more confidence and things like that.

02:33:35 Speaker_01
She worked with children that had learning disabilities and developed some ideas about what kind of environment to create that would work with them best.

02:33:47 Speaker_05
Mm hmm.

02:33:47 Speaker_05
And what I love about this example I mean not just the ruler of the third and the first which is, you know, again, one of those like the thing is named for the person, but it's a Venus in a night chart ruling the third placed in the first and.

02:34:03 Speaker_05
Just the little bits I know about Montessori education, one of them is like there's a sort of ease, like they're not trying to force children into doing certain things, but there's like an ease about, you know, going with their natural proclivities and that sort of thing.

02:34:17 Speaker_05
And like also treating every child as like a unique individual, which is like very like the ruler of the third in Leo in the first house.

02:34:26 Speaker_01
Yeah, totally. What is unique to you and what is your unique learning style and then adapting it to that rather than having every student do the same learning style?

02:34:38 Speaker_04
Exactly, yeah.

02:34:39 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's brilliant. So those are my two examples of the ruler of the third.

02:34:44 Speaker_01
And then also, obviously, with those two examples, it's not just that it was named after them, but it was named after them because that topic and that area was a special passion for them. It was very personally important to them.

02:34:56 Speaker_01
and they focused on it so much that their identity becomes wrapped up in it. Their existence leaves an indelible mark on that topic in general for the rest of time.

02:35:10 Speaker_04
Yeah, definitely.

02:35:12 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right. So you have an example, yeah?

02:35:16 Speaker_05
Yeah, so the next one's Audre Lorde, and shout out to Lindsay Turner for this example. I added a bit at the end to it as well.

02:35:23 Speaker_05
So Audre Lorde, she was an American writer, professor, philosopher, intersectional feminist, poet, and civil rights activist. And she was Libra rising with Jupiter ruling the third and placed in the first house in Libra.

02:35:39 Speaker_05
She was a self-proclaimed black lesbian feminist socialist mother warrior and poet.

02:35:44 Speaker_05
And one of the things that Lindsay was noting about that was that she gave like equal weight to each of her identities, her like, you know, her basically self identifications and that she didn't prioritize any one over the other, which is kind of like definitely the first house identity themes and then in Libra kind of balancing them all.

02:36:04 Speaker_05
So one of the things that was interesting about her as a child, she communicated via poetry before she started writing poetry. And there was this quote where she said, people would say, well, what do you think, Audra? What happened to you yesterday?

02:36:18 Speaker_05
And I would recite a poem and somewhere in that poem would be a line or a feeling I would be sharing. In other words, I literally communicated through poetry.

02:36:27 Speaker_05
And when I couldn't find the poems to express the things I was feeling, that's what started me writing poetry. So that was a really cool literal ruler, the third and the first, and it being in a Venus sign with the poetic expression.

02:36:43 Speaker_05
She got a master's degree in library science and was a librarian for the New York Public Schools throughout the 60s. And again, early education is a third house topic. And the word sister or sisters shows up prominently in Lord's work.

02:36:58 Speaker_05
And of course siblings is a third house topic, such as in her sister outsider which was an anthology of her essays and speeches, and I was a little bit I took a moment where I was like.

02:37:08 Speaker_05
that definitely unique to her, because this is also a term that's used by lots of people. But it was really persuasive that Lindsay noted that that anthology was released in 1984.

02:37:16 Speaker_05
And when it was during one of her third house perfections, I was age 50, which is really cool, right? Yeah, it's not just the written work, you know, coming out, but also like that. the name of it.

02:37:29 Speaker_01
Which is really important and that's something that we looked for and it's something we tried to establish in our research methodology here is obviously we have the example we give of a needle placement or signature that we think is compelling and has

02:37:44 Speaker_01
at least a one-to-one correspondence with some literal thing that happened in the life, if not multiple things.

02:37:51 Speaker_01
But sometimes the way to confirm our interpretation of that thing that we think the chart matched with in terms of the life events is to look at the timing and see if that part of the chart was actually also activated by important transit at that time.

02:38:05 Speaker_01
And if it was, that helps to confirm that you're on the right track in terms of how you're looking at the chart and researching it.

02:38:14 Speaker_05
Yeah, definitely. And that was one of those where I was like, oh, OK, that actually really was highlighting the third house. And so calling it that name like made actually a lot of sense right at that time.

02:38:25 Speaker_05
She developed breast cancer in 1977, which led to her writing about disability and disease, such as in her book, The Cancer Journals, which was also the ruler of her ruler of the third and the first is also the ruler of the sixth and the first of like illness.

02:38:38 Speaker_05
And. She discussed ways illness can intersect with other aspects of identity, which was very like ruler of the six bringing the topic of illness to like the first house of self and identification. And as I was like copying some of this over.

02:38:58 Speaker_05
I suddenly remembered that one of her most iconic lines she's known for goes, your silence will not protect you. And is very ruler of the third and the first in terms of the first being yourself, both body and mind.

02:39:11 Speaker_05
You can also kind of see it coming in with her Mercury Mars. But anyway, I looked up again like the larger context of where that was from. I want to read it.

02:39:25 Speaker_05
I shortened it for time's sake, but it's actually really powerful and really evokes her ruler, the third and the first, being Jupiter and Libra.

02:39:32 Speaker_01
CB Do you want me to show it on the screen?

02:39:35 Speaker_05
LS Sure.

02:39:35 Speaker_01
CB Okay.

02:39:36 Speaker_05
LS Yeah.

02:39:37 Speaker_01
CB I will show it from the dock.

02:39:42 Speaker_06
There we go.

02:39:43 Speaker_05
LS So I cut a little bit of this out, but it goes I was going to die, if not sooner than later, than litter, whether or not I had ever spoken myself. My silences had not protected me. Your silence will not protect you.

02:39:58 Speaker_05
What are the words you do not yet have yet? What do you need to say? And of course, I am afraid.

02:40:05 Speaker_05
You can hear it in my voice, because the transformation of silence into language and action is an act of self-revelation, and that always seems fraught with danger.

02:40:14 Speaker_05
I began to ask each time, what's the worst that could happen to me if I tell this truth? Our speaking will irritate some people, get us called bitchy or hypersensitive, and disrupt some dinner parties.

02:40:26 Speaker_05
And then our speaking out will permit other women to speak, until laws are changed and lives are saved and the world is altered forever. Next time, ask, what's the worst that will happen? Then push yourself a little further than you dare.

02:40:41 Speaker_05
Once you start to speak, people will yell at you. They will interrupt you, put you down, and suggest it's personal. And the world won't end. And the speaking will get easier and easier.

02:40:52 Speaker_05
And you will find that you have fallen in love with your own vision, which you may never have realized you had. And you will lose some friends and lovers and realize you don't miss them, and new ones will find you and cherish you.

02:41:04 Speaker_05
And you will still flirt and paint your nails, dress up and party, because as I think Emma Goldman said, if I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

02:41:12 Speaker_05
And at last, you'll know with surpassing certainty that only one thing is more frightening than speaking your truth, and that is not speaking. And I really love that whole passage. But I, yeah, isn't that powerful?

02:41:27 Speaker_06
Yeah, that's really good.

02:41:29 Speaker_05
And so I read it partially because it is really powerful, but it also evokes her voice, which I thought was very, very Jupiterian. It's almost like a little sermon or like a little inspiration to speaking, you know?

02:41:41 Speaker_05
And also those few different things that I highlighted there in bold were like very like ruler of the third and the first or ruler of the third Jupiter, because the transformation of silence into language and action is an act of self-revelation, right?

02:41:56 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's really the ruler of the third in the first, like the first house is like self and self-revelation is actually a good keyword for the first house because that's often what happens when you have major transits or placements there as you go through a process of self-understanding and revealing of the self.

02:42:14 Speaker_05
Exactly. So that was like, just really jumped out at me. And then the part where she said, our speaking out will permit other people to, other women to speak until laws are changed and lives are saved and the world is altered forever.

02:42:25 Speaker_05
It's like very Jupiterian. It's very like, this will improve everything, laws, like legal systems associated with Jupiter and so forth. But it's very like inspiring in a sermon-like way.

02:42:38 Speaker_05
And then that last bit, and you will find that you have fallen in love with your own vision, which you may never have realized you had. It was also like really ruler of the third and the first.

02:42:47 Speaker_05
It's like you, yourself, your own manner of seeing and being, you know, and that like that even coming from speech rather than like vice versa, like the actor, the process of speaking, like unveiling that for you.

02:43:01 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah, I love that. That's such a great example of the ruler of the third house of speaking and communication in the first house of self.

02:43:11 Speaker_05
Yeah, it's amazing.

02:43:12 Speaker_01
What's that excerpt from?

02:43:15 Speaker_05
It's one of her essays. I think it's in... No, it's not in Sister Outsider. Sorry, I'd have to pull it up again.

02:43:21 Speaker_01
Okay, no problem. I'm just curious. Maybe we'll see if we can put that in the notes for afterwards that we send out to patrons.

02:43:30 Speaker_04
Yeah, I'll find it.

02:43:32 Speaker_01
Okay. All right. Anything else?

02:43:35 Speaker_04
No, I think that's it.

02:43:37 Speaker_01
All right. So I'll move on with my next example. My last example of the ruler of the third and the first, which is Johnny Carson, who's the archetypal talk show host. So he was born with Scorpio rising.

02:43:53 Speaker_01
His 3rd house is Capricorn, where he has a Moon-Jupiter conjunction in a day chart along with a lot of fortune. And then the ruler of the 3rd house is Saturn, which is conjunct Mercury in Scorpio in his 1st house not too far from his Ascendant.

02:44:09 Speaker_01
So I thought this was interesting just because I said, he's sort of like the iconic American television host and comedian because he hosted The Tonight Show for over 30 years.

02:44:23 Speaker_01
He actually started hosting it when Saturn was in Aquarius, and then he stopped hosting it in the 90s when Saturn returned to Aquarius.

02:44:30 Speaker_01
So there's some interesting Saturn themes in terms of his host, not just in terms of his chart, but also in terms of the timing. And the way that he hosted it sort of shaped late-night talk show hosts for generations.

02:44:46 Speaker_01
Everybody that has a late-night talk show at this point today still is influenced by Carson in different ways. One of the things that's interesting about having a Moon-Jupiter conjunction in the third

02:45:01 Speaker_01
is especially for comedians, he would host different comedians and they would come on and do their act or do their bit, do a set basically on his show. And for many of them, that would be their big break.

02:45:15 Speaker_01
But one of the things is that if he liked them, he would give a thumbs up if he really liked the act. Or if he really, really liked it, he would have them come over to the couch and he would talk to them for a few minutes after they did their set.

02:45:30 Speaker_01
So there was this quality of hosting, which is like the moon, collecting things, but then also affirming something, which is very Jupiter-tarian.

02:45:40 Speaker_05
Yeah.

02:45:43 Speaker_01
So that is my other ruler of the third in the first example.

02:45:47 Speaker_05
Very good.

02:45:49 Speaker_01
All right, so let's move on to the second house, the ruler of the second and the third, or the ruler of the third and the second. And the second house is the house of finances.

02:46:00 Speaker_01
I guess we should mention a few significations each time, but finances, money, possession. I guess we just did a whole four-hour episode, so people can listen to- If you don't know what the second house is yet.

02:46:11 Speaker_01
They can listen to that if they're not familiar. Yes.

02:46:15 Speaker_05
Means of livelihood is a big one, how you make a living.

02:46:19 Speaker_01
Right. So my first example of that is Kylie Jenner, who has Pisces. So Capricorn rising, Pisces on the third whole sign house, and the ruler of the third house is Jupiter.

02:46:34 Speaker_01
The ruler of the third house of siblings is Jupiter, which is placed in the second house of finances. And Kylie Jenner is the youngest of the Kardashians.

02:46:46 Speaker_01
So she sort of grew up in that context where she became wealthy, especially as a result of her siblings and her finances were very much tied up with them because they were like American television, what is it, like reality television show family?

02:47:07 Speaker_05
Right. Like a family of socialites, kind of?

02:47:10 Speaker_01
Yeah, but that they sort of did a whole show keeping up with the Kardashians and some of the related shows where her sister especially became really famous, especially for doing that show, but then it involved the entire family.

02:47:26 Speaker_01
And so it's interesting how much she got her start really and success and especially financial wealth being tied up with her siblings.

02:47:37 Speaker_05
Right. Yeah, for sure.

02:47:39 Speaker_01
Yeah.

02:47:41 Speaker_01
This example is also interesting because it's one of a… I've come across a few of these where it's like with her chart, it's Capricorn rising with Saturn in Aries, which is in the fourth whole sign house, which is the place of parents, and her mom

02:48:00 Speaker_01
is the driving force behind the family, and she's actually the original one who proposed and pitched the idea of doing a reality television show and got it to happen, basically, even though the show, keeping up with the Kardashians, that her daughter was the centerpiece of it.

02:48:19 Speaker_01
Kim Kardashian. But it's interesting because the ruler of the Ascendant is on the left-hand side of the degree of the IC, which is at 29 Aries, and Saturn is at 20 degrees of Aries.

02:48:31 Speaker_01
So technically, it's on the third house side of in quadrant houses, the degree of the IC. And I think it's interesting that that's the ruler of her Ascendant. So I was trying to

02:48:44 Speaker_01
I was thinking about that and wondering, is that an example of overlapping significations where both the whole sign houses are showing you something important about what her life is directed towards, which is the fourth house, but then the quadrant houses are also showing you something important?

02:49:00 Speaker_01
It was an interesting thing that came up in several of these charts.

02:49:04 Speaker_05
Right, which I know you were going to explore in here at greater length, and now it's going to be possibly a separate episode of some sort later on.

02:49:13 Speaker_01
Yeah, I think I'll do a separate episode on that at some point, but I just wanted to point out this example as an early example of that that seems suggestive.

02:49:23 Speaker_05
Yeah, absolutely. There were some others. I know I have one in my own chart too, so I like to keep an eye on those as well.

02:49:28 Speaker_01
Definitely. All right, so moving on to my next example, the ruler of the third and the second is Alexander Graham Bell, who is famous for patenting the telephone. So he had Pisces rising and

02:49:47 Speaker_01
The third whole sign house of communication is Taurus in his chart, and the ruler of the third house of communication is in Aries in the second house of money and finances, but also possessions and things you own.

02:50:02 Speaker_01
And Venus is co-present in a sign-based conjunction with Uranus, Pluto, and the South Node. And that's one of the most famous things that he ever did was patent the telephone

02:50:15 Speaker_01
although he had patents on a bunch of other communication devices besides the telephone as well. So it's kind of interesting that it's not just that one, even though that's the one he's most known for.

02:50:29 Speaker_05
Right. Yeah. And like Venus is ruling the third and placed in the second. So it's just like communication is his means of livelihood.

02:50:39 Speaker_02
Right, exactly.

02:50:40 Speaker_05
And revolutionizing, actually, with the Uranus there too, revolutionizing means of communication.

02:50:47 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's interesting because also Mars is ruling the second and square that from the 11th.

02:50:52 Speaker_01
And there was a debate about, there's still some controversy even to this day about his patenting of the telephone because another inventor, Alicia Gray, filed an intention to patent basically a telephone on the same day.

02:51:09 Speaker_01
So there's always been disputes about that. Was there something sketchy going on? Was it parallel invention or what?

02:51:17 Speaker_04
Right. Yeah.

02:51:19 Speaker_01
Yeah. And then of course, his is another example of that where he has Pisces rising and the ruler of the Ascendant is Jupiter, which is in the fourth whole sign house in Gemini.

02:51:31 Speaker_01
And a lot of his inventions were motivated initially by, on the one hand, the fact that his mom was profoundly hard of hearing. So part of his interest in hearing and developing things was in order to help people like his mom who are hard of hearing.

02:51:50 Speaker_01
Similarly, his dad was involved in teaching Deaf people sign language, or a form of sign language, so that from his father, he also gained some of this focus on language and communication and different things like that.

02:52:08 Speaker_01
So the motivation makes sense and is there from the ruler of the Ascendant. And then, of course, the ruler of the fourth whole sign house is Mercury, which is in the first house.

02:52:18 Speaker_01
But then we can see that the degree of the IC is later in Gemini, probably around 25, give or take, since it's a rounded time. But then Jupiter is on the third house, quadrant side of the IC.

02:52:33 Speaker_01
So in quadrant houses, the ruler of the Ascendant is in the third house.

02:52:38 Speaker_01
So it's interesting where, again, it's open to debate, but there could be an indication of an overlap there between the whole sign house and the quadrant house placements, although it's tricky because there's so much going on there.

02:52:52 Speaker_05
Yeah, there's a bunch of different factors sort of interlaced here. I mean, it's interesting also, because I know when you told that to me earlier, I was like, right. And then I was like, that could be a thing.

02:53:01 Speaker_05
And then also the Ascendant ruler in Holstein houses is Jupiter and Gemini in the fourth. And back then when the telephones started up, it was a means of connecting communication between people in their homes. That was like their first use.

02:53:15 Speaker_05
You know, we weren't carrying around pocket cell phones yet. So yeah, that was interesting as well.

02:53:22 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's a good point. So anyway, we'll leave that investigation for another episode, but a couple of suggestive things I'm writing down and keeping an eye on for possible synthesis of the different house systems and attempts to reconcile them.

02:53:40 Speaker_01
All right. So my last example in this section is Dr. Drew Pinsky

02:53:48 Speaker_01
who has a mutual reception between the rulers of the Second House of Finances and the Third House of Communication, where he has Cancer rising and the Sun is in Virgo in the Third House of Communication, conjunct Pluto widely.

02:54:05 Speaker_01
And the ruler of the third house of communication is Mercury, which is over in Leo in the second house of finances, conjunct Venus and Uranus, and also very widely conjunct Pluto.

02:54:17 Speaker_01
So there's a close connection, like I said, when those exchanges of signs happen. And what's interesting is that he was a doctor by training and a board-certified addiction medicine specialist.

02:54:30 Speaker_01
But then what happened is he started doing radio, and he got into doing late-night radio and a call-in advice show that was very popular in the 90s called Love Line.

02:54:44 Speaker_01
And he ended up becoming very financially successful by becoming a radio personality where people would call in and ask for advice about sex, about relationships, about

02:54:58 Speaker_01
sometimes really difficult stuff because Pluto is also there in his third house, and there would sometimes be some really serious calls.

02:55:07 Speaker_01
But I just thought it was really interesting somebody where communication is tied in so closely to the finances and where, you know, he otherwise was just a doctor where, you know, reasonably successful financially from that, but then becoming hugely successfully financial as a radio host.

02:55:25 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm. Interesting. Yeah, for sure. It's also interesting that like that Sun in the third in Virgo is applying to square that Saturn and Saturn's in a night chart ruling the seventh house of like partnerships.

02:55:38 Speaker_05
So it's like people calling in about their problems and their love life with their partners.

02:55:44 Speaker_01
Yeah, I mean, that's true. And then also he got a partner, a comedian basically joined him at one point, Adam Carolla, and that's when the show became wildly successful because it was the two of them running the show and answering calls and stuff.

02:56:01 Speaker_01
And there was a heyday of that in the 90s and early 2000s. Yeah, so those are all of our second house examples. Now we move into the third house, except the third house we don't really have examples for.

02:56:21 Speaker_01
I know in the last episode, a lot of people asked questions about this, and the answer is that when a planet is in its own sign,

02:56:30 Speaker_01
when the ruler of the 3rd house is in the 3rd house, it just indicates that that is a strong or auspicious placement in the person's chart.

02:56:38 Speaker_01
And so sometimes that can indicate that things will be more fortunate in that specific area of life, whatever the topics are. So the topics of communication might go better.

02:56:50 Speaker_01
And for example, many of the charts that we talked about earlier, some of the charts are

02:56:55 Speaker_01
where the planet was in its own sign or when it was in a mutual reception and the person was really notable or successful in that area are examples of what happens when the planet is well-placed in its own sign.

02:57:08 Speaker_01
So there's other factors that go along with that, but it can also indicate that the person has a talent or that they have more autonomy in that area of their life.

02:57:17 Speaker_05
Yeah. I noticed we'll get to William Lilly at some point. He's got the ruler of the third and the third.

02:57:22 Speaker_01
Yeah, when we get to the planet section, we'll actually see a number of examples of people that have the planet in its own sign.

02:57:29 Speaker_01
And what we'll see is these are often people that are successful in that particular area of life, or sometimes it can indicate a positive sibling relationship if the aspects are also good and if the sect factor is also good in terms of day versus night chart and other things like that.

02:57:50 Speaker_01
It's just one of those additional factors that can indicate a more positive placement in that area of the person's life.

02:57:58 Speaker_01
All right, so let's move forward to the fourth house, which is the house that has to do with the home, the parents, the living situation, and the private life.

02:58:09 Speaker_01
And my first example of this is a guy named Steve Forbes, who is actually the head of, I think he's the current editor-in-chief of Forbes Magazine, which he inherited from his father, which was then started by his father, which is a financial magazine.

02:58:33 Speaker_01
And I thought this was interesting because Steve Forbes has Taurus Rising, Leo is on the 4th whole sign house, and the ruler is the Moon, which is placed in Cancer in the 3rd house, along with the stellium of Venus, Mercury, and the Moon.

02:58:51 Speaker_01
So having the ruler of the 4th in the 3rd, he literally inherited from his father, from his family, this magazine, basically in this media company at this point, that talks about financial matters.

02:59:08 Speaker_01
And the Moon is in its own sign there in the third house, and it's very successful.

02:59:14 Speaker_05
It's funny that the ruler of the second house and the ruler of the fourth are conjoined in the third house. So it's like it's a magazine inherited from family about financial topics.

02:59:26 Speaker_01
Yeah. And we can see also here, it's like the Moon is in its own sign, the ruler of the third house, it's in its own house.

02:59:32 Speaker_01
And he's like the owner of this company, essentially, or at least the head of it, or is running it in some sort of head role where he has more autonomy in terms of being in charge of things.

02:59:43 Speaker_05
Yeah, for sure.

02:59:44 Speaker_01
So that's one way. It doesn't always work out that way, but that's one way it can work out. All right, so moving on, my next example, this is one of yours actually, which is Charles Dickens.

02:59:56 Speaker_05
Yeah. So Charles Dickens, we're noting that we're using the 1155 p.m. birth time. There are, I guess, a couple of birth times out there, but there are some persuasive reasons that this one is probably correct, and astrologically it really makes sense.

03:00:12 Speaker_05
So he had the rule of his Ascendant is Mars and Aries in the sixth, and it's closely square Saturn and Capricorn in the third house in a night chart. Saturn is also ruling the fourth house and then placed in the third.

03:00:26 Speaker_05
And his story was basically his early life. His father ended up going to debtor's prison. He grew up like very poor initially.

03:00:35 Speaker_05
And so his father went to debtor's prison and he had to subsequently stop going to school because of this and go to work instead at age 12.

03:00:44 Speaker_05
And that just seemed like a really literal ruler of the fourth and the third, especially Saturn in a night chart, as the poor conditions of family led to interruption in schooling.

03:00:57 Speaker_05
Interestingly, with that close overcoming square to his ascendant ruler in the sixth house, because of his life experiences with poor working conditions and poverty, he ended up writing about those themes later in his written work.

03:01:13 Speaker_05
He did eventually go back to school for a couple years, but he felt it was a bad experience. There was a quote that said he encountered what he called haphazard, desultory teaching and poor discipline.

03:01:26 Speaker_05
The school's sadistic headmaster was later the inspiration for the character Mr. Creekle in Dickens' semi-autobiographical novel David Copperfield. So it was like really bad third house early schooling experiences as well as the interruption.

03:01:39 Speaker_05
That's amazing.

03:01:42 Speaker_01
immortalizing your terrible school teacher in a legendary story.

03:01:49 Speaker_05
Gotta be careful. Those kids might grow up to write badly about you. Exactly. And then when he was 15, his education was interrupted again, and he had to drop out of school and work again to contribute to his family's income.

03:02:04 Speaker_05
But he worked in an office, and the job actually became a launching point for his writing career. So it said within a year of being hired, Dickens began freelance reporting at the law courts of London.

03:02:15 Speaker_05
Just a few years later, he was reporting for two major London newspapers, which is another third house topic. Then eventually, he edited a weekly journal for 20 years, wrote 15 novels, five novellas, hundreds of short stories, and nonfiction articles.

03:02:28 Speaker_05
And I think part of what's going on there is, you know, not just Saturn in its own sign becoming better over time, you know, which can happen even in a night chart, that is a major mitigation.

03:02:39 Speaker_05
But he also had Venus exalted in a night chart in the fifth house of like creative output. So I think that's part of like why it ended up so positively later, in addition to, you know, Saturn improving over time.

03:02:51 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, well, Saturn's also in its own sign, which is a mitigation, but also Venus in Pisces is sextiling Mercury through an inferior sextile and even Saturn through an inferior sign-based sextile.

03:03:06 Speaker_01
So since it's a night chart, Venus is able to help offset things a little bit as opposed to if it was completely in aversion to that sign and wasn't able to help at all.

03:03:16 Speaker_05
Yeah, absolutely. So this was a good example of a few things. I mean, we put it in the ruler of the fourth and the third section because it was literally like coming from family poverty ended up interrupting his education multiple times.

03:03:27 Speaker_05
But it's also just a really fascinating square with the Senate ruler in the sixth square Saturn in the third of like working conditions, like being a theme in his written work later because of having to, you know, work bad jobs and drop out of school.

03:03:43 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. That's really good. All right, so moving on, you have another example in this section, right?

03:03:55 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm. Ansel Adams. So Ansel Adams was an American landscape photographer and environmentalist. Most people know him for his grand sweeping photographs of nature. So he has his ascendant ruler Jupiter, Venus, and Mercury in the third house in Aquarius.

03:04:16 Speaker_05
Jupiter rules the first and fourth houses and placed in the third. And, you know, it is one of those things where astrology just like never lies. You just don't always know initially why it's going to work out, but it always does.

03:04:29 Speaker_05
You know, so initially I was like, why would the ruler of the fourth be in the third for him? Why would that be important? It ended up being really important. So he was a lifelong advocate for environmental conservation.

03:04:39 Speaker_05
So his photographic practice was like deeply entwined with his nature advocacy, basically. And also just intertwined in odd ways, like at age 14, he was given his first camera during his first visit to Yosemite National Park.

03:04:54 Speaker_05
So again, just like even from the first start of getting a camera. like it was like while he was out in nature.

03:05:00 Speaker_05
Age 14 also was a third house perfection year, so it was activating that ruler of the fourth and the third, which makes sense because it does sound like it's very literally playing out that way.

03:05:10 Speaker_05
Age 14 is also the Saturn opposition, of course, and with Saturn as the ruler of the third placed in the second, that was like the beginning of his making a living via photography.

03:05:22 Speaker_05
So this is one of those things where your expression isn't always in words. So basically his his manner of expression was via these photographs.

03:05:31 Speaker_05
And you'll sometimes see that with Venus in the third, it's like an artistic expression of what you're trying to say.

03:05:38 Speaker_05
He developed his early photographic work as a member of the Sierra Club, which is like a group dedicated to protecting wild places on Earth.

03:05:46 Speaker_05
And really interestingly, to me anyway, he was later contracted with the United States Department of the Interior to make photographs of national parks.

03:05:56 Speaker_05
And he eventually photographed 27 of the then 28 national parks, which is like, I don't know, that's like, OK, yes, the ruler of the fourth and the third, you know? Right. And it eventually actually helped expand the national park system.

03:06:10 Speaker_05
His work did, because he was basically advocating it via his beautiful photographs of it. Funnily, later on in 1943, he had a camera platform mounted on his station wagon to give him a better vantage point and a better angle for expansive backgrounds.

03:06:28 Speaker_05
And so instead, most of his landscapes from that time forward were made from the roof of his car. rather than from summits reached by rugged hiking like he did when he was younger.

03:06:36 Speaker_05
It was a really funny transportation vehicle tie-in with communication and expression. And in 1943, when he did that, there were two eclipses in Aquarius in his third house at 15 and 22 Aquarius. And 22 Aquarius is the exact degree of his Venus.

03:06:54 Speaker_05
So it was like a change in how he was making his art via his station wagon.

03:06:58 Speaker_01
Wow, that's incredible.

03:07:00 Speaker_05
It's so funny.

03:07:02 Speaker_01
Yeah, I love that, that you get all the different themes tied together of cars, his photography slash artwork with the Venus, and also photographing land with the fourth house representing land.

03:07:16 Speaker_01
Very literally, it's the very bottom of the chart under the Earth at the lowest point that represents the Earth the most closely.

03:07:24 Speaker_05
Right. People often wonder about like fourth house things and like, oh, well, I'm not really that attached to my home or whatever, but sometimes it's like a land or environmental concerns.

03:07:35 Speaker_01
Yeah. Or like ancestry or other things like that as well. Right. It's also interesting because it's like know, it's in Aquarius. It's like Venus in Aquarius and Mercury in Aquarius. And they're both like sextile Uranus, which is on his Ascendant.

03:07:49 Speaker_01
And it's like he's using a technology, which is so commonplace photography at the time that we sort of take it for granted. But back then, it was even more of like a actual technology that he was using that was like kind of

03:08:04 Speaker_01
advanced or new in some way. Not like super new by that point, but still there's like a technological edge to what's going on there.

03:08:13 Speaker_05
LS There's a lot of specific equipment involved. And yeah, it is a technology thing. Not like we have in every single phone now, but like there wasn't like that back then.

03:08:22 Speaker_01
CB Right. Yeah.

03:08:24 Speaker_05
LS Yeah, no, that's a good point.

03:08:25 Speaker_01
CB That is a great example and a great find. Good job finding that one.

03:08:28 Speaker_04
LS Thank you.

03:08:34 Speaker_01
That's good. So I think that completes the fourth house. So like I said, we're just giving a little taste of each house with like a few handful of examples for most of these houses. So now we'll move on to the fifth house.

03:08:48 Speaker_01
is the house that has to do especially with children. Children, also sometimes creativity, sometimes sex is a topic that comes up with the fifth house as well in its connection, especially with procreation, but also recreationally.

03:09:06 Speaker_01
All right, so my first example here is actually just a callback to a previous one, which is reminding you that Walt Disney has the ruler of the third house of communication in the fifth house of children, and he created Disney, which is literally a whole media empire and animation studio that's based on essentially entertaining or communicating stories to children for the most part.

03:09:35 Speaker_01
as well as taking some of those old fairy tales and adapting them to modern times and modern animations.

03:09:43 Speaker_05
LS Yeah. Entertainment and children are really clear themes here.

03:09:47 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, as well as just working with his brother who was also helping him with that at the same time. So there's a lot of things going on. All right. My next example after that is, this is one you actually first showed me.

03:10:03 Speaker_01
So do you want to do this one?

03:10:04 Speaker_05
I did. I haven't looked at it in a while, but I do remember gathering it for you. So this one's Judy Blume.

03:10:11 Speaker_05
She was a prolific children's book author, and she had the Libra rising Venus in the fifth house in late Aquarius with the Sun, Jupiter, and Mercury. And Jupiter is the ruler of the third house and is placed in the fifth house.

03:10:27 Speaker_05
So basically, she just wrote lots and lots of books for children, which is like the ruler of the third of writing or books or communication in the fifth house of children.

03:10:35 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, she was like a prolific children's book author and also won a lot of top awards for her children's books.

03:10:44 Speaker_05
LS Right, with Venus being the benefic of sect there in the fifth.

03:10:48 Speaker_01
CB Yeah. So very similar to Disney, but just from a different angle or different vantage point.

03:10:57 Speaker_01
All right, another one to give a different example angle on things that I found in my searches was Hugh Hefner, who is the founder of Playboy and Playboy magazine, had the ruler of the fifth house, which represents sex and sexuality, was Saturn in the third house of communication in the sign of Scorpio.

03:11:20 Speaker_01
So he was born with Virgo rising, Saturn and Scorpio in the third house, and he created a magazine that was based on a large part of it of sex and sexuality, basically.

03:11:33 Speaker_05
LS Yeah, that is basically his story.

03:11:36 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, and then that created a whole media empire that continues to this day, but it partially arises out of that placement.

03:11:47 Speaker_05
I remember writing him up as a Saturn return story eons ago for his third Saturn return. He got married to someone in their 20s when he was at his third Saturn return.

03:12:04 Speaker_01
weird stuff in terms of the different things going on there as well. But yes, that was his placement in terms of part of the founding of that. The next one was bell hooks And this is one that I noticed.

03:12:27 Speaker_01
It's kind of complicated to talk about, but she had the ruler of the third house of communication in the fifth house. And one of the things that I thought was really interesting about that is she wrote a book not super long ago called All About Love.

03:12:48 Speaker_01
And in this book, Chapter 8 is actually really interesting, but it explores the meaning of love in contemporary society.

03:12:58 Speaker_01
And she really tries to offer a vision for creating more loving relationships within the context of communities, where she wants to remove love from just being a thing that happens between

03:13:14 Speaker_01
individuals, like two people in a relationship, and she tries to recontextualize it by placing it in a broader role that makes it vital to creating communities and to shaping communities.

03:13:28 Speaker_01
So I read that quote from her earlier about communities where, like I said, it's one of the most interesting

03:13:38 Speaker_01
treatments of the third house, even though she's not talking about astrology, but her whole discussion of communities ties together friends, siblings, other people in your neighborhood and community, and all of this other stuff.

03:13:54 Speaker_01
It was really quite striking, so I'd recommend reading it. I had some quotes somewhere, but it looks like I don't have them. handy right now.

03:14:03 Speaker_01
But I thought it was an interesting example because Venus, the fifth house is associated with Venus and it's the joy of Venus.

03:14:11 Speaker_01
And so one of the things that might be associated with Venus to some extent and with the fifth house by extension would be the concept of love.

03:14:19 Speaker_01
And I thought it was just interesting how there's a connection then at least in this book in her work where she's trying to connect those two things of community and love.

03:14:30 Speaker_05
LS

03:14:33 Speaker_01
Yeah.

03:14:33 Speaker_01
So anyway, she emphasizes community care, promotes justice and equality, encourages open dialogue and understanding, and even at one point in that chapter tries to nurture a spiritual connection as part of community, which I think is connected with the Venus-Neptune conjunction in her chart.

03:14:53 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's really cool.

03:14:55 Speaker_01
Yeah. So I'd recommend everyone check out that chapter of her book because it's hard for me to convey here. All right, and then we had one last example in this section, but it doesn't require a chart, right?

03:15:09 Speaker_05
Right. Yeah, I had just so as we were dialoguing about the third house, all the third house things the last couple weeks, I had this sudden realization as I was thinking about like house rulers in different houses.

03:15:21 Speaker_05
And I was like, wait, my mom has the ruler of the fifth house of children in the third house. And there's lots of other ways that plays out. Like she used to like have a teaching career, for instance. But I was like, her child is a diviner.

03:15:37 Speaker_05
Like, that's me. I was like, suddenly, like I'd never thought about that facet of that placement before. And, you know, typically, I do see astrology more in the ninth house.

03:15:47 Speaker_05
But, you know, I do other divination, and I'm actually quite fond of divination and a few different, you know, eaching and low Norman cards and tarot. And quite often, she'll come looking for me, and I'll have like cards spread out all over the floor.

03:16:03 Speaker_05
I was like, I think I think that's me.

03:16:06 Speaker_01
Yeah, I think that's really good because you're not just an astrologer, but you're somebody that regularly uses cards and uses tarot cards and uses the I Ching and all sorts of different forms of divination on a regular basis.

03:16:17 Speaker_05
Yeah, and I love to compare and contrast the different types of divination and what they can and can't say depending on their systems and so forth. I use it pretty much almost every day. So I was like, all right, your child is a diviner.

03:16:30 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's really good. Well, there's one instance then of that third house connection with divination.

03:16:38 Speaker_05
For sure. And we'll have some more later.

03:16:40 Speaker_01
All right. So let's move on to the sixth house. The sixth house is one of the more challenging houses. It can pertain to injuries and illness. And so some of the significations we find there have to do with that. My first example of that is Bruce Willis.

03:17:00 Speaker_01
who has Virgo rising and Saturn and Scorpio in the third house. Saturn is ruling the fifth house and the sixth house of illness. What happened is a few years ago, it was announced that he was diagnosed with something called aphasia in 2022.

03:17:24 Speaker_01
And aphasia is a language disorder that affects a person's ability to communicate, specifically impacting their speaking, but also their writing and also understanding of both the spoken as well as the written language.

03:17:41 Speaker_01
So this diagnosis led him to retire from acting as the condition made it increasingly difficult for him to perform his roles. This was really striking to me at the time because for several years, people had been criticizing him.

03:18:01 Speaker_01
I know one YouTube channel that did a whole reel at one point where they were criticizing him for taking this seemingly endless string of really high-paying but low-quality movie roles in a bunch of movies

03:18:19 Speaker_01
And then after this news came out and was announced, it became clear that the reason why he was doing that potentially is because he knew something was wrong and he was running out of time to make money for his family before he couldn't anymore.

03:18:33 Speaker_01
And so it was really interesting because then all those people that had been making fun of him for several years looked like assholes

03:18:41 Speaker_01
And it was a really good sort of, to me, like insight that you have to be careful sometimes that you never know what a person's like going through, especially when you're dealing with like celebrities like that.

03:18:52 Speaker_05
Yeah. When in doubt, it's best not to make fun of other people because you really don't know what's going on.

03:18:57 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. So there was some interesting timing because when the When his family publicly announced his aphasia diagnosis, Saturn was actually transiting through Aquarius.

03:19:14 Speaker_01
So it was actually going through his 6th house, and it was very closely squaring his natal Saturn in the 3rd house, where Saturn was at 21 Aquarius and it was squaring his natal Saturn at 20 Scorpio. So that's a super close transit.

03:19:30 Speaker_01
And then at the same time, Mars was at 18 degrees of Scorpio, squaring his Mars and conjoining his Saturn, or making a hard angle. The South Node was also conjoining his Saturn, and also eclipses were starting to take place in his 3rd and 9th houses.

03:19:53 Speaker_01
And if that wasn't enough, Uranus was also conjoining his Mars and Taurus, which is the ruler of his third house of communication.

03:20:00 Speaker_01
But then also Jupiter was transiting his seventh house and trining his Saturn and Jupiter in the 11th very closely at the same time, which I thought was interesting because it showed the

03:20:12 Speaker_01
outpouring of support from family and friends and fans that happened at that time, and how it just almost immediately overnight changed the narrative that had built up about him the past several years to something much more positive and supportive.

03:20:29 Speaker_01
So that's what happens sometimes when you have extremely negative but also extremely positive transits happening at the same time.

03:20:37 Speaker_05
Right. Right. You know, and the ruler, the sixth and the third, you know, we'll have some other sort of more positive manifestations. Obviously, this didn't happen until later in his life.

03:20:46 Speaker_05
So it's not that that was the only thing that that placement was about. Right. But, you know, at some point sooner or later, if people live long enough, most people develop some sort of disability, you know, whether that's when you're younger or older.

03:21:00 Speaker_05
So it's not something to get frightened of because we're speaking of this chart placement.

03:21:06 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah. But symbolically, it's just interesting how literal that is that Saturn sometimes says no to things and its function as a malefic.

03:21:16 Speaker_01
And here in the third house of communication, it was saying no to communication and then literally becoming unable to speak.

03:21:24 Speaker_07
Right.

03:21:25 Speaker_01
Yeah. But it's offset otherwise, so positively otherwise because he was such a successful actor and everything up to that point. And we can see his Jupiter up here in Cancer trining his Saturn as well as Venus squaring it.

03:21:44 Speaker_01
So I tried to look to see if he had any other speaking issues earlier in life, but I couldn't find anything. So I don't know if this is something that really did just manifest later on or if there were any other

03:21:57 Speaker_01
like ways that that archetype manifested in other ways earlier in his life. So if anybody knows, let us know in the YouTube comments.

03:22:05 Speaker_05
Right, right.

03:22:06 Speaker_05
And I guess one more note about that, it's just a reminder that the natal chart has to represent like everything that can happen to you at any point in your life versus like some of the timing kind of narrowing down when different things are activated and so forth.

03:22:19 Speaker_05
So just because there's like something that looks like a little scary or negative or something, it doesn't mean that that's going to be like throughout your entire life.

03:22:27 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. All right, so moving on. The next example, this is a shout out to Melissa Markland for this one. This is Tammy Faye Baker, who's now known as Tammy Faye Baker Messner.

03:22:47 Speaker_01
Melissa found this one where there's a mutual reception between the rulers of the third and the sixth.

03:22:54 Speaker_01
So this is another one of those really strong connections between those houses where Tammy has Sagittarius rising, Aquarius on the 3rd house where we find Mercury and Venus both in the 3rd house of communication, and then Venus is in a mutual reception with Saturn and Taurus in the 6th house.

03:23:16 Speaker_01
So there's a connection potentially, we might say, symbolically between the house of communication and the house of illness.

03:23:24 Speaker_01
So one of the things that's interesting about her, Mercury is also there, and Mercury is the ruler of the 10th house of career and the 7th house of relationships.

03:23:36 Speaker_01
And she was an American evangelist who co-founded the evangelist television program, the PTL Club, with her husband, Jim Baker, in 1974.

03:23:51 Speaker_01
And it was also known as the Jim and Tammy Show with the ruler of the Seventh House of Relationships and the Third House of Communication. She starts a televangelist program with her husband.

03:24:03 Speaker_01
But she made waves in the televangelist and Christian community at one point because in the 1980s, she openly supported the LGBT community amidst the AIDS epidemic. So the AIDS epidemic was raging at the time.

03:24:20 Speaker_01
And her views really diverged from a lot of the other mainstream evangelists because she reached out to HIV-slash-AIDS patients at the height of the AIDS epidemic in order to do outreach and to try to educate and help people, basically.

03:24:42 Speaker_01
And it was something very positive and very striking at that time. She also tried to help people with issues related to addiction and like substance abuse.

03:24:54 Speaker_01
And I thought that was interesting as well, since drug addiction is also like a sixth house thing, because it's usually seen nowadays as an illness.

03:25:03 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm, right. Yeah, that's really fascinating, the combination of those two. If you want to see her husband's chart, we talked about that in the second house episode. But yeah, this is more of a third house focused one.

03:25:18 Speaker_01
Oh, right. You had used her husband as an example?

03:25:21 Speaker_05
Yeah, Jim Baker. Mm-hmm. Got it. This is more of a redeeming piece.

03:25:28 Speaker_01
Yeah, definitely. All right. So I think that's it for that example. Thanks to Melissa for finding that one. So there's one more example in this section, and this is Jane Goodall, and this is an example that you found.

03:25:45 Speaker_05
I did originally find out, you looked up some of the information, but it's basically the ruler of the sixth house in the third.

03:25:53 Speaker_05
So Jane Goodall, Sagittarius rising, and Taurus is the sixth house, which is ruled by Venus, and Venus is placed in Aquarius in the third house. And it's really funny because, okay, there we are, Venus and Saturn in the third house.

03:26:10 Speaker_05
And so communication with animals was like, I mean, literally, if you would like hear that you'd be like communication with animals. And that's pretty much how it worked out. So chimpanzees in particular was like a major part of her life and work.

03:26:26 Speaker_05
She focused heavily on understanding chimpanzee behavior and communication. especially nonverbal vocalizations, but also nonverbal communication like facial expressions and postures and gestures, which is really funny, right?

03:26:40 Speaker_05
We were talking about some of the comedians with the third house placements and gestures and facial expressions.

03:26:49 Speaker_01
I'm imagining an alien species trying to interpret Jim Carrey's facial movements and understand what he's trying to convey.

03:26:56 Speaker_05
It's very much like that. So she immersed herself in their world and built trust with the chimpanzees, and she was able to study their communication as well as other species.

03:27:14 Speaker_05
So, you know, and she basically recognized the intelligence and sentience of animals and like advocated for greater understanding and respect for their like forms of communication.

03:27:25 Speaker_05
Now, something else I was thinking about when I was looking at that chart, because I was like, I read this passage where it said as she was immersed with this, you know, group of, you know, a few dozen or so chimpanzees,

03:27:38 Speaker_05
It basically said that they accepted her as there was kind of a hierarchy in the group, they accepted her as kind of like the lowest rung of the hierarchy but as like belonging to the group, and then they detailed the other.

03:27:50 Speaker_05
kinship relationships between the different chimpanzees that were in the group, like who was whose father and aunt and uncle. And I was like, I think, I was like, I don't think this is too much of a stretch.

03:28:03 Speaker_05
I think this is actually like, you know, she was, she was not just studying their communication.

03:28:07 Speaker_05
It was like animal extended family that she was like a part of, or she was at the very least studying, but like also kind of a part of, which I thought was a really funny, like third house thing.

03:28:18 Speaker_01
Right. Didn't you say she was at the lowest rung of the ladder, though?

03:28:22 Speaker_05
Yes, yes. So she was accepted as one of them, but she was accepted at the bottom of the hierarchy.

03:28:28 Speaker_01
I think that's really funny because I was wondering what that Saturn in the third house in a night chart meant.

03:28:33 Speaker_01
It's like, sometimes it's like when you're in normal people, it's like you might be estranged from like a sibling or your extended relatives or something, but she's like kind of like an outcast within the animal society that she's been accepted into or that she's like not, she's sort of like on the periphery or the edges of it.

03:28:52 Speaker_04
That's really funny.

03:28:54 Speaker_05
I think that's totally right.

03:28:56 Speaker_01
All right. Maybe, I don't know if that's stretching it, but there's probably other ways that it manifested, but yeah.

03:29:02 Speaker_05
It's just true because I have another example with Aquarius third house things, and it was about the edges of society.

03:29:07 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah. Nice. Well, I think that's an amazing example. I always love the 6th house rulership stuff where animals come up.

03:29:18 Speaker_01
Of course, I used Leona Helmsley in the last example of ruler of the 6th and the 2nd where she left millions of dollars to her dog that became the richest dog in the world. So this is a nice continuation of that theme.

03:29:32 Speaker_05
And oftentimes when people worry about illness or injury with the sixth house, I mean, that can come too, but animals are part of our world.

03:29:39 Speaker_05
And usually if there's an important placement or rulership with regard to the sixth house, people often have a greater focus on animals in some way.

03:29:49 Speaker_01
Yeah, definitely. It's really striking. It's one of those things where you first learn it and read it and you don't know how that works out or why that would make sense. But then when you start seeing it, you realize that's really a thing.

03:30:00 Speaker_04
Yeah, definitely.

03:30:03 Speaker_01
So let's transition now into the 7th house, which is the house that's associated with relationships, partnership, and marriage.

03:30:10 Speaker_01
And when I was searching through my time chart files, one of the charts that came up for this that I was initially perplexed about, but I saw that Miley Cyrus had a mutual reception between

03:30:23 Speaker_01
ruler of the 3rd house of communication and the 7th house of relationships. She was born with Taurus rising and Cancer on the 3rd house, which is ruled by the Moon, which is placed in Scorpio in the 7th house, conjunct Pluto and Mercury.

03:30:37 Speaker_01
And then the ruler of the 7th house of relationships is Mars, which is in Cancer in the 3rd house of communication.

03:30:46 Speaker_01
And I thought about it for a little bit, and I thought that was funny because I realized recently, I think it was a year ago now, her biggest hit song to date, Flowers, is widely interpreted to be about a relationship, and specifically to her past marriage to somebody that she broke up with.

03:31:06 Speaker_01
It's basically a breakup song. So while it's not explicitly confirmed by Miley Cyrus at this point, the lyrics and the timing of the song's release strongly suggest that it is referring to this marriage that fell apart.

03:31:23 Speaker_01
In fact, when I was looking into it more, I realized that she actually has several songs about relationships that have been successful, Beyond Flowers, which was her most successful one.

03:31:35 Speaker_01
If you remember 2013, the power ballad Wrecking Ball was also about reflecting on heartbreak and emotional turmoil surrounding a breakup at the time.

03:31:53 Speaker_01
But then there's other songs as well about relationships, like Malibu, Slide Away, and Midnight Sky, which was another popular song in 2020 about self-love and independence after a breakup.

03:32:08 Speaker_01
Obviously, lots of different singers write songs about relationships and stuff, so one could make an argument about it, but I just thought it was interesting that

03:32:18 Speaker_01
her most successful songs have been about relationships, especially that one, Flowers, which I think she won awards for. It sold really high.

03:32:28 Speaker_01
It was her Saturn Returns success story song that I've talked about a lot over the past couple of years because I was anticipating that she would be a successful Saturn Returns story with Saturn in her 10th house, and then that song was one of the reasons why it was a success story.

03:32:45 Speaker_04
Interesting. Yeah, that's good.

03:32:48 Speaker_01
So communicating about relationships or singing about relationships. All right, so moving on. My next example is Leona Helmsley,

03:32:59 Speaker_01
who had cancer rising, and the 7th house as well as the 8th house, so the 7th house of relationships and the 8th house of other people's money, is ruled by Saturn, which is located in the 3rd house of not just communication but also neighbors and neighborhood.

03:33:22 Speaker_01
What's interesting about her is that Leona Helmsley married a real estate tycoon named Harry Helmsley, who owned property around New York City.

03:33:35 Speaker_01
They ended up becoming this powerful real estate couple in New York, especially where they owned properties like the Empire State Building, many prestigious hotels all around New York City.

03:33:51 Speaker_01
So she basically married into immense real estate wealth and power, and then together they became a prominent couple in the New York real estate scene, and she did a lot of work in that area.

03:34:03 Speaker_01
So I thought that was a really interesting connection then where that's not communication, that's literally like your neighborhood. But for her, her neighborhood was New York City.

03:34:14 Speaker_05
LS That's a good neighborhood one. And I have a funny quote to add from her.

03:34:19 Speaker_06
CB OK.

03:34:21 Speaker_05
One of her most famous quotes she's known for is saying, we don't pay taxes, only the little people pay taxes. And it's like Saturn ruling the eighth house of taxes placed in the third house of communication. It's one of her most famous quotes.

03:34:38 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's really good.

03:34:40 Speaker_05
Saturn negating things.

03:34:43 Speaker_01
Yeah. It's funny also because Virgo is actually associated with little things.

03:34:47 Speaker_05
Oh, yeah.

03:34:49 Speaker_01
That's true. Small things.

03:34:50 Speaker_04
Yes, true.

03:34:52 Speaker_01
All right. So moving on, the last example in this section is Joe Biden. So he has

03:35:04 Speaker_01
The third house, he has Sagittarius rising, the third house is Aquarius, and the ruler of the third house of travel is Saturn, which is placed in the seventh house of marriage and relationships, and Saturn is conjunct Uranus. And Biden famously

03:35:23 Speaker_01
he first was elected to public office, during his Saturn return, his wife died in a car accident right after he was elected, basically.

03:35:34 Speaker_01
And it was one of the greatest tragedies of his life, but it was involving his wife passing away in a car accident, which unexpectedly and

03:35:46 Speaker_01
Yeah, so it was symbolized by this connection between the 3rd house of short-distance travel and the 7th house of relationships, and then it was timed by Saturn actually going through that sign of Gemini.

03:36:00 Speaker_05
Right. Yeah, really sad story, a very straightforward 3rd and 7th house connection.

03:36:06 Speaker_01
Yeah. And sometimes that can be part of what comes up there. I know there was one listener who sent in a story like that as well of somebody close to them that passed away in connection with a car crash.

03:36:22 Speaker_01
And we weren't able to include that for time, but I know that's just a theme that can sometimes come up when it comes to travel.

03:36:30 Speaker_04
For sure.

03:36:31 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right, so now we move on to the 8th house, actually, speaking of that. All right, so one of my first examples, I wanted to have two positive ones of the 8th house because the 8th house is not all negative.

03:36:48 Speaker_01
The second house we talked about in the last episode is your money and finances, and the 8th house is other people's money.

03:36:56 Speaker_01
And what's interesting sometimes about positive 8th house placements is that sometimes it can indicate getting money from other people, and sometimes with the rulers of the houses, it explains what you're getting money for or how you're

03:37:11 Speaker_01
people's money is wrapped up in your life. This is the birth chart of Hasan Piker, who is a popular streamer at this point who live streams every day on YouTube and Twitch.

03:37:27 Speaker_01
He basically does commentary and reaction videos, and especially political commentary,

03:37:33 Speaker_01
And in his birth chart, he has Capricorn rising, Pisces is the 3rd house of communication, and the ruler of the 3rd house of communication is Jupiter, which is located in Leo in the 8th house in a day chart along with the Sun and Mercury.

03:37:52 Speaker_01
And a lot of his income comes through people who watch his live stream every day and donate money to him because they like following him and they want to support his work.

03:38:06 Speaker_01
I thought that was really interesting in addition to the interactive nature of his streams, which has attracted a large audience and a dedicated audience of people that are willing to support him financially, as well as the fact that he's often doing commentaries on

03:38:23 Speaker_01
other videos on YouTube and reaction type videos, which I think is interesting because that's kind of like other people's stuff as well.

03:38:31 Speaker_01
And it made me think of if the reaction video isn't an interesting archetype for the ruler of the third house of communication in the eighth house of other people's stuff.

03:38:42 Speaker_05
Yeah, absolutely. I've seen that before. I mean, both of those things, definitely.

03:38:47 Speaker_05
Like his eighth house is so positive with Jupiter, not just in a day chart in the eighth, but co-present and, you know, having reception with its ruler, which is the sun and its own sign of Leo.

03:38:56 Speaker_05
So like, yeah, really positive eighth house, unusually so. So yeah, people who crowdfund, you know, or get lots of like scholarships or grants, that's often like an eighth house thing. And

03:39:11 Speaker_05
Yeah, other people's stuff, that can be tricky because sometimes you're positively benefiting from something that otherwise kind of belongs to someone else, but he's communicating about their things.

03:39:24 Speaker_01
Yeah. I mean, I've seen streamers that just have a knack for making a living because people just throw money at them or just want to give them money. I saw a person with a stellium in the eighth house and with both benefics there that just

03:39:38 Speaker_01
You know, people just want to give them money and it's almost like miraculous how fortunate they are. And then I knew another person like that that had a positive eighth house placement there, but that they

03:39:50 Speaker_01
would get donations for people, but then they sometimes would kind of abuse it, so they weren't very ethical surrounding it. So it can really vary, and there's a wide variety of stuff.

03:40:01 Speaker_01
There's also sometimes negative eighth house placements where somebody can misappropriate somebody's stuff or rip off other people or plagiarize or other things like that.

03:40:13 Speaker_01
Yeah, so we will get to more of that when we do the eighth house episode at some point, which will be a fun episode, I'm sure.

03:40:19 Speaker_05
Yes, I'm sure.

03:40:21 Speaker_01
All right, so speaking of that, I had one example that I threw in late recently. I was looking for translators and looking for people that spoke a lot of languages or had a facility with language and looking at their third house placements.

03:40:38 Speaker_01
One of them that came up was my friend, Levant Laszlo, who is a translator of ancient Greek astrological texts and who I mentioned earlier in this episode because he actually has

03:40:50 Speaker_01
He's crowdfunding the translation of a bunch of ancient Greek astrological texts from the Hellenistic and medieval traditions.

03:40:59 Speaker_01
And he said it was okay if I used his birth chart for this example, where he has Taurus rising, and he has Jupiter exalted in the 3rd house of communication in a day chart.

03:41:12 Speaker_01
And Jupiter is ruling the 11th house of friends and groups, as well as the 8th house of other people's money.

03:41:20 Speaker_01
And so, the specific manifestation of that in his instance is that he's good with languages, he's a translator, and he's now crowdfunding the translation of all these ancient astrological texts through the Hori Project, which I mentioned earlier.

03:41:39 Speaker_05
You know what I really love about this one? Well, besides that he contributed, thank you. It's a great example.

03:41:45 Speaker_05
The ruler of the 8th and the 3rd, but then it's also the ruler of the 4th house in the 8th, a little loop in the 4th house being like things from the past.

03:41:54 Speaker_01
Right. Like ancient things.

03:41:56 Speaker_05
Yeah. And that's like what's being crowdfunded around.

03:41:59 Speaker_01
Yeah. And it's like he also has, as you pointed out to me, Mercury is in a mutual reception with Saturn and Mercury is in the ninth house. And so that kind of helps in terms of some of his skills with ancient languages as well.

03:42:11 Speaker_01
So as with all of these charts, there's always going to be multiple different things that are indicative or that can emphasize a certain outcome or placement in a person's life.

03:42:22 Speaker_01
And we don't always mention all of them, but yeah, he's got a bunch of good ones there. I reached out to one guy who was a polyglot who knows like 20 different languages to see what his birth time was, but unfortunately, I haven't heard back yet.

03:42:40 Speaker_01
I'm still looking for if anybody knows a polyglot, which is somebody that knows lots and lots of different languages, especially like a dozen languages or more. Let me know because I'm looking for birth times.

03:42:52 Speaker_01
I've only found one birth time so far for one

03:42:56 Speaker_01
I reached out to another translator, but unfortunately his time was unknown and was speculative, so it wasn't a good chart example to use for the purpose of this, but I'm still looking for more examples if anybody's able to find one.

03:43:12 Speaker_01
Alright, so moving on, other manifestations of the 8th house. Of course, the 8th house is also traditionally the primary house that's associated with death and mortality.

03:43:22 Speaker_01
One of my most striking examples of this that I've always used is Ted Kennedy, who has a very strong mutual reception between the ruler of the 3rd house of siblings and the 8th house of death,

03:43:34 Speaker_01
he experienced the death of at least four different siblings during the course of his life in really striking ways.

03:43:42 Speaker_01
He had Capricorn rising, Pisces on the 3rd house, and the ruler of the 3rd house of siblings is Jupiter, which is placed in Leo in the 8th house of death.

03:43:56 Speaker_01
The ruler of the 8th house of death is the Sun, which is placed in Pisces in the 3rd house of siblings.

03:44:03 Speaker_01
This is actually one of the first charts where I really noticed this theme that oftentimes when there's a mutual reception between two houses, there's a very prominent connection between those topics somehow in the person's life.

03:44:16 Speaker_01
And his was one of the first charts I noticed that in like a decade ago that we've seen so prominently now throughout the course of this lecture through this podcast.

03:44:26 Speaker_01
But just to give you an idea, it's like his older brother, Joseph P. Kennedy Jr., was killed in action during World War II. Then his sister, Kathleen Kennedy, died in a plane crash.

03:44:42 Speaker_01
Then his brother, John F. Kennedy, was assassinated famously in 1963, and then his other brother, Robert F. Kennedy, was assassinated in 1968. There was also other assorted issues with siblings, but that's just to give you an idea.

03:45:02 Speaker_01
There was a strong connection between the topics of siblings and mortality in his life.

03:45:08 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's really striking.

03:45:10 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right, so moving on, and actually one more like that. This is a callback to a previous chart. So this is the birth chart of Caroline Kennedy, who is the sister of John F. Kennedy, Jr., who's the example that I used earlier in this talk.

03:45:32 Speaker_01
who had the ruler of the Ascendant in the 3rd and died in a plane crash.

03:45:37 Speaker_01
This is the sister of that guy, and she has Sagittarius rising, Cancer on the 8th house of death and mortality, and the ruler of the 8th house of death and mortality is the Moon, which is placed in Aquarius in the 3rd house of siblings.

03:45:55 Speaker_01
She also, unfortunately, had that experience of losing a sibling.

03:46:00 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm. Right. And it's like square Mars in the 12th and opposite Uranus. It was like a sudden, unexpected thing. And then the ruler of the third itself is like near her ascendant in a night chart.

03:46:11 Speaker_05
So it's like emphasizing that she's like the sister of the famous brother who died.

03:46:16 Speaker_01
Yeah, and that's the thing is that you only get the worst-case scenarios and outcomes like this when there's multiple heavy afflictions and other things that are reflecting that, which is the case in her chart or the case in Ted Kennedy's chart.

03:46:32 Speaker_01
And it's not always going to work out like that, especially if there's only just one of these indications. It can work out in other ways, but it's sometimes when you see the same thing

03:46:43 Speaker_01
when the chart is telling you the same thing multiple different ways, sometimes that's when you know it's going to be a strong likelihood of something that may happen in a person's life.

03:46:54 Speaker_05
Right. For sure.

03:46:56 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right. Two more examples like that to round out the eighth house, a really famous one that everyone always cites and I've cited for 10 years now is Princess Diana, who famously died in a car accident in the 1990s.

03:47:19 Speaker_01
Sagittarius rising, Cancer on the 8th house of death, and the ruler of the 8th house of death is the Moon, which is placed in Aquarius in the 3rd house of short-distance travel.

03:47:33 Speaker_01
And the Moon is applying to an out-of-sign opposition with Mars and Pluto in a day chart, so it's also afflicted. And she tragically passed away in a car accident as she was being chased by paparazzi one night in Paris.

03:47:50 Speaker_05
Yeah, unfortunately, another very literal 8th house and 3rd house combo.

03:47:54 Speaker_01
CB Right. And then one more that I just found in researching this episode, and then we can move on from this house. This is the birth chart of John Connolly.

03:48:05 Speaker_01
And John Connolly was the governor of Texas, and he was actually riding in the same car as John F. Kennedy when John F. Kennedy was assassinated.

03:48:19 Speaker_01
And John Connolly, who was riding in the front seat, was also hit by a bullet and seriously injured so that he thought he was going to die, but then he ended up actually surviving.

03:48:31 Speaker_01
So his chart is interesting because he had Sagittarius rising, a Mercury-Uranus-Venus conjunction in Aquarius in the 3rd house.

03:48:44 Speaker_01
And the ruler of the 3rd house of short-distance travel is Saturn, which is located in Cancer in the 8th house with the South Node in Pluto. And he was involved in this historic incident where the president was shot and assassinated and killed.

03:49:06 Speaker_01
And so it was one of the most famous assassinations of all time. It occurred in a car, in a moving vehicle, and this person happened to be in that vehicle at that time and was also almost mortally wounded at that time. MS.

03:49:21 Speaker_05
Right. So having a near-death experience as well as experiencing the topic of death while in a vehicle.

03:49:29 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. I do think that Venus in the 3rd house in the night chart is part of what sort of counteracted or saved him in some sense, that there were some positive placements there.

03:49:44 Speaker_01
And it was also interesting, I looked up the transits and the eclipses, of course, and there was a preceding solar eclipse that was in his eighth house that occurred months earlier.

03:49:55 Speaker_01
So I suspect that there was probably something important that fell into place around that time, either regarding Oswald or Connelly or Kennedy or multiple things falling into place.

03:50:08 Speaker_01
And it was also interesting because he had some close transits that day that indicated it, but one of them was Neptune in his 12th house of enemies squaring his Mercury in the third house of travel.

03:50:23 Speaker_01
And of course, there was all the mystery and intrigue and theories surrounding Oswald and whether it was more than one shooter and all sorts of things like that.

03:50:34 Speaker_05
He had some serious mitigations going on, not just Venus in the third, but Venus is overcome in a close overcoming square to an exalted Moon, which is the ruler of the eighth.

03:50:46 Speaker_05
And then his Saturn, which is the ruler of the third in the eighth, is ruled by that exalted Moon and has reception, like applying reception.

03:50:54 Speaker_05
It's just like interesting, yeah, several different mitigations going on there in terms of why he didn't die at that time.

03:51:01 Speaker_01
Yeah. Well, and Venus itself is also the ruler of the 6th house of injury. So it's like he was seriously injured in a car at one point in his life in this freak accident and witnessed the death of somebody else, but luckily escaped death himself.

03:51:19 Speaker_04
Yeah, exactly.

03:51:21 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right. So that is the 8th house. Let's move on to the 9th house, which is the place of foreign travel, interaction with people from foreign countries.

03:51:34 Speaker_01
It can also represent higher education, religion and spirituality, and all sorts of things like that. So you found our first example for this one, I believe, right?

03:51:47 Speaker_05
Yeah, and I kind of went down a little rabbit hole reading about it. There were just so many interesting ways it was playing out. So this is the chart of Vladimir Zelensky, the president of Ukraine. He's got Gemini rising.

03:52:00 Speaker_05
His third house has Mars, the Moon, and Saturn, as well as the IC in Leo. And

03:52:07 Speaker_05
The ruler of the third house is the Sun in Aquarius in the ninth house, closely conjunct Venus, kind of as a Venus-Kazemi, and they are the Saturn in Leo and the Sun in Aquarius are in mutual reception.

03:52:20 Speaker_05
So it's really heightening the connection between the third and the ninth houses in his chart.

03:52:26 Speaker_05
And the first thing I immediately thought of when I saw his chart before like researching further was like oh okay obviously like conflict with neighbors and like a big picture sense right because there's a thing that's said sometimes where the chart of a president or a leader of a country.

03:52:42 Speaker_05
can sometimes kind of temporarily act like the chart for the country because everything that affects them personally tends to affect the country itself.

03:52:53 Speaker_05
So anyway, that's like writ large, the neighbors are like another country, which is the ruler of the third and in the ninth, and the Mars and Saturn being both malefics placed in the third house of neighbors.

03:53:06 Speaker_05
So I thought that was just like super striking even before going further, right?

03:53:10 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure, especially as a president of the country and how sometimes the president's chart takes on this role almost as the horoscope for your country in general.

03:53:21 Speaker_01
And so when you start thinking of it in that sense, the third house then is sort of like the neighbor of the country.

03:53:27 Speaker_05
Exactly. It's just like, again, so literal. I love literal astrology. But then I started digging further into his background and growing up years.

03:53:37 Speaker_05
And one of the things it said was, when I was reading, for five years as a child, he lived in a Mongolian frontier town newly established around a copper mine due to his father's new job.

03:53:49 Speaker_05
There's a quote that said, it forced the family to endure the pollution around the mines and the hardships of life in a frontier town. The food was bland and unfamiliar. Fermented horse milk was a local staple.

03:54:00 Speaker_05
And the family's diet was heavy on mutton, which the occasional summer watermelon for which Zelensky and his mother had to stand in line for hours. So that was just like malefics co-present with the IC. in the third.

03:54:14 Speaker_05
And then the ruler of the third and the ninth, it's not that those things were like inherently negative per se, it was that they were unfamiliar.

03:54:20 Speaker_05
They were like a different countries or different cultures, like, um, familiar things, which were unfamiliar to him. Right.

03:54:29 Speaker_05
So I just like the IC in there, like as doing a lot of work in terms of like being co-present with that and then ruled by like, you know, he was literally in another country. And then, um,

03:54:40 Speaker_05
Then he wrote about the town that he grew up in, which I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing correctly, but something like Krivyi Rih, that he grew up in before and after, and said, few if any places in Ukraine had a worse reputation in those years for violence and urban decay.

03:54:54 Speaker_05
The main employer in the city was the metallurgical plant. whose gargantuan blast furnaces churned out more hot steel than any other facility in the Soviet Union. That was just really funny.

03:55:06 Speaker_05
I know this isn't the Mars section, but that's very like Mars in a day chart in the third house with the IC. Yeah, that's incredible. like what the city was known for, like hot steel, that's like very Mars.

03:55:18 Speaker_05
And then said by the late 1980s, the city devolved into what Zelensky would later describe as a city of bandits.

03:55:26 Speaker_05
Lots of teenage gangs in a city during the time that he was growing up, it was like an actual thing that's written up when you look up his city. And his wife, who grew up in the same city, she was born two weeks apart from him.

03:55:39 Speaker_05
said, every neighborhood was in on it. When kids from a certain age wandered in the wrong neighborhood, they could run up against a question, what part of town are you from? And then the problems could start.

03:55:51 Speaker_05
And it was just like, so striking again, right? Like the malefics there and the neighborhood aspect. Anyway, then later, he was a performer in a comedy group earlier in his life, starting in his teenage years.

03:56:07 Speaker_05
And it was really comprised of friends who initially met at his local school.

03:56:11 Speaker_05
And there's just like really funny thing again, where it's like the opposition from the third to the ninth and like the son being an Aquarius, which is sometimes like an outsider type of

03:56:24 Speaker_05
Placement said, around their neighborhood in the 1990s, Zelensky's crew stood out from the start.

03:56:30 Speaker_05
Instead of the tracked pants and leather jackets that local hoodlums wore to school, their look was a kind of 50s retro, plaid blazers and polka dot ties, slacks with suspenders, pressed white shirts, and long hair slicked back with too much gel.

03:56:44 Speaker_05
To them, this felt like a form of rebellion, mostly because it was their own. Nobody acted like that in their city, and it didn't always go over well, which I thought was, again, really funny. Right.

03:56:54 Speaker_05
Like what we was trying to do was like get as far as possible, like into the ninth house with like the local customs of the third. Right. Then it said he was later later was said to spend lots of time touring and not at home, which is again is like

03:57:10 Speaker_05
The IC in the third ruled by the sun in the ninth is like lots of movement, instead of being at home, founded a media, this is the most interesting part, he founded a media production company in his 20s.

03:57:25 Speaker_05
And probably a lot of people know he ended up playing the role of a president of Ukraine on a TV show. And it was produced by his media company, which is like Third House. But the topic was politics, which is often Ninth House.

03:57:37 Speaker_05
So this is, again, the media company is Third House, right? We saw that with, say, like Ted Turner and other media people. But it's ruled by the Sun and the Ninth, and there's the politics topic.

03:57:49 Speaker_01
And I think that's important. We know astrologers often associate the 9th house.

03:57:56 Speaker_01
It's been traditionally associated with religion and more broadly with beliefs and one's beliefs, but I've really come to understand over the past several years how politics is also a major 9th house topic because it is a belief and it is tied in with your beliefs.

03:58:12 Speaker_05
Yeah, and sometimes you can literally see people's politics changing when there's timing going on with their ninth house or to the ruler of their ninth or two planets in the ninth.

03:58:22 Speaker_02
Right.

03:58:23 Speaker_05
Yeah, because it's a worldview. Anyway, this is the best part. So that part was already great. In December 2017, a political party formed the prior year was renamed after the name of the show where Zelensky played the president.

03:58:40 Speaker_05
And so his media company show turned into actual politics in the real world, because then he ran under that political party's name.

03:58:54 Speaker_05
And the first leader of the party was even the CEO of the media company, who was a childhood friend of Zelensky's and a former head of their previous local comedy troupe.

03:59:06 Speaker_05
It was just all these third house significations going into the ninth house with the ruler there. It was just amazing.

03:59:12 Speaker_01
Yeah. That's a really good demonstration of the friends you grew up with theme really coming from the third house.

03:59:20 Speaker_05
Yeah, this was actually the example that won me over a little bit to that because it was just standing out so strikingly. And then when that happened, this was amidst the Eclipse series in his third and ninth with his Midheaven in the ninth house.

03:59:36 Speaker_05
And then eventually when the political party was named for that TV show. And so it was just engaging that third and ninth house connection that's already there in Italy. Right.

03:59:53 Speaker_05
His TV show media company piece turned into politics for real in the real world. And then he eventually, of course, famously won the 2019 election for president as that party's candidate.

04:00:06 Speaker_05
So I was just very excited about this example because there were just so many fun things playing out when you dug into his biography.

04:00:16 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. It's a good example of how sometimes the more you dig into a chart, the more you see how the placements are woven throughout a person's life, even if you're not immediately familiar with their biography.

04:00:30 Speaker_01
But once you start looking into it, you realize that those placements really are important in telling you something very crucial about the structure of a person's life.

04:00:40 Speaker_05
And like all of it was interesting to me, but like especially that piece where it was like all those early childhood, like third house things ended up like following him into like the political arena.

04:00:51 Speaker_01
Right. Definitely.

04:00:54 Speaker_05
Yep. So that's, that's that one.

04:00:57 Speaker_01
All right. Yeah, and I think that's a good example because also for me it just illustrates, because it's malefics there in the 3rd, and there's that close connection between the mutual reception between the 3rd and the 9th houses, it's like

04:01:15 Speaker_01
the primary thing of his life at this point is that he's in a war with a neighboring country and where there's real issues about the topic of neighbors and about yeah, what's going to happen with that?

04:01:30 Speaker_01
That's clearly the most central thing that his life is about at this point.

04:01:35 Speaker_01
Interestingly, to confirm our interpretation of that, because you might almost wonder, I could hear somebody asking themselves if that's a stretch, but here's the next chart example, which I think demonstrates that to some extent as well, which is Abraham Lincoln.

04:01:52 Speaker_01
So the birth time on him is a little bit iffy, but he's said to have been born at sun-up, and that seems to be relatively reliable. If that's true, that means he was born with Aquarius rising,

04:02:08 Speaker_01
and the 3rd house is Aries, which is ruled by Mars in a day chart in the 9th house of foreign countries, and the ruler of the 9th house of foreign countries is Venus, which is in the 3rd house of neighbors.

04:02:26 Speaker_01
Of course, his thing was that during his presidency, pretty much immediately upon assuming his presidency of the United States in the middle of the 1800s, the Southern states and the United States seceded and tried to set up a foreign country, basically, and tried to break away from the United States and create their own country.

04:02:49 Speaker_01
So it's sort of like created a foreign country, even though it was of brothers, essentially.

04:02:57 Speaker_01
That's the famous thing about the Civil War in the United States, is they said sometimes you would have brothers fighting brothers because of how those lines got divided up, basically, between some of the Southern and Northern states.

04:03:11 Speaker_01
So I think this is interesting because I think you're seeing a parallel thing here between Zelensky and Lincoln's charts in terms of the cessation of different parts of a country seceding and coming into conflict with each other, but also that thing between, in this instance, the interrelationship between what is a neighboring state or a sibling state versus what is a foreign country.

04:03:40 Speaker_05
Yeah, it's fascinating that this works out pretty much the same way. And I'm sure this is acting like a daytrick because the Sun's so close to the Ascendant.

04:03:48 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, absolutely. And that's why that Mars is even more problematic in terms of some of the worst case scenarios there, especially in the sense of literally the southern states breaking away or severing their relationship with the northern states.

04:04:05 Speaker_07
Yeah.

04:04:06 Speaker_01
And then the central focus, like with Zelensky, the central focus of Abraham Lincoln's life then became his attempt to keep the Union together, to reunite, to win the war basically, and then reunite the southern states with the northern states.

04:04:23 Speaker_05
Right. Which is so interesting given like the Venus there, right? But it's like Venus and Aries, so it was like a not easy reunification.

04:04:31 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. All right, so that is that. And then we have just a few more examples of Ninth House stuff, switching to some other topics. One of them, I exchanged emails this week with my friend Aaron Cheek, and he said I could use his chart.

04:04:50 Speaker_01
So Aaron's chart's interesting because he has Scorpio rising, he has Capricorn on the 3rd house, and the ruler is a pretty well-placed Saturn by aspect, which is in Cancer in a day chart in the 9th house, co-present with the Midheaven and Venus, and having a very strong positive superior trine from Jupiter and Pisces over Saturn.

04:05:16 Speaker_01
And the thing about Aaron is that he's become the editor and publisher of esoteric works through his company, Rubedo Press, which includes publishing alchemical as well as astrological texts.

04:05:33 Speaker_01
And he actually edited and designed and published Demetra's now legendary two-volume series, Ancient Astrology in Theory and Practice, that I recommended earlier in this talk. He was the one that actually published that.

04:05:49 Speaker_01
So I think that's interesting in terms of the ruler of the third house of communication and writing in the ninth house of esoteric subjects And Aaron also edited my book. He helped me edit my book, even though I self-published it.

04:06:05 Speaker_01
I hired Aaron at the time to help me do conceptual edits during the course of the year that I was writing the book. So he gave me a lot of really helpful feedback on that, and he also helped me with some of the Greek and other things like that.

04:06:21 Speaker_01
So yeah, I thought he was a good example of that.

04:06:24 Speaker_05
Definitely. Pretty straightforward.

04:06:27 Speaker_01
All right. And then there's other manifestations of the third house and ninth house and divinatory stuff with a couple examples, right?

04:06:36 Speaker_05
Yeah. We have two people actually in our astrological community who contributed charts. So the first one is Joy Vernon, who is a tarot reader and astrologer. And she's got, let's see, she has Cancer Rising and she has

04:06:52 Speaker_05
The ruler of the third house is Virgo, the ruler is Mercury, placed in Pisces in the ninth house, closely conjunct and exalted Venus in Pisces. And so this is another ruler of the third and the ninth.

04:07:04 Speaker_05
Now, the third house can be divination, I think, on its own, but you especially strengthen that topic, I think, or at least have the potential to, if someone's interested in those topics, when the ruler of the third is in the ninth.

04:07:17 Speaker_05
Because of course, astrology traditionally goes in the ninth. Mercury is also the general significator of astrology, which Mercury here is the ruler of the third. So yeah, and she was originally a tarot reader and then got into astrology as well.

04:07:35 Speaker_05
But just like that moment of divination being really important to third house and ninth house things, I think is what we're seeing here.

04:07:46 Speaker_01
Yeah. It's like we're looking and trying to investigate this topic of divination in the third or ninth.

04:07:53 Speaker_01
And one of the things that was insightful about Joy's chart example is that this is like her primary job is seeing clients on a daily basis and talking with them.

04:08:06 Speaker_01
And that's something that really comes up when you go to especially see somebody that does divination in person is that it's a conversation where it's not just

04:08:16 Speaker_01
you, the client, trying to use divination to speak to the cosmos and get an answer about the future or about whatever you're inquiring about.

04:08:24 Speaker_01
But there's an active interpretation on the part of the diviner, and there's a conversation between the client and the diviner as well, so that there's a heavy communication and daily component to it.

04:08:38 Speaker_05
Absolutely. And strengthening it further in this chart is the Ascendant ruler is the Moon in later Cancer in the first, and it's applying by trine to that Mercury-Venus in the ninth, which Mercury ruling the third.

04:08:49 Speaker_05
So it's just like this person's identity is also connected with those topics.

04:08:56 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. So yes, Joy is awesome. She has lots of experience in both tarot and astrology, so you can search for her name in order to get a consultation with her if you would like, and I would definitely recommend it.

04:09:11 Speaker_01
All right, so another example, I reached out to Rob Bailey, who is my friend, who is primarily an astrologer that practices horary astrology, which is the most clear form of astrology that's clearly a form of divination. And Rob has Aries rising,

04:09:32 Speaker_01
and the Moon is in the 3rd house in Gemini. And the 3rd house itself is ruled by Mercury, which is located in the 9th house, conjunct the Sun and co-present with Neptune and Uranus. And like I said, Rob's primarily a horary astrologer.

04:09:49 Speaker_01
I'm actually developing a course on horary astrology, and him and I are three quarters of the way through finishing that right now. LS Yeah, he's answered a lot of worry questions for you. He's usually your go-to worry astrologer, right?

04:10:04 Speaker_05
He answered a very important one for me when I was trying to decide whether to quit my day job at long last and only do astrology for income, and I consulted with him.

04:10:15 Speaker_01
Yeah, and the Hori chart, we actually used that in an example in our class in just the last recording we did a few weeks ago because the chart was strikingly positive for you doing that.

04:10:26 Speaker_05
Right. He was like, I don't want to overstate this, but this is just unusually positive. Yeah.

04:10:32 Speaker_01
Yeah. And that ended up being successful and it ended up being like,

04:10:37 Speaker_01
ended up quitting your day job and starting to do astrology full-time a year or something, not too long before the pandemic, so that basically by the time the pandemic hit, you would switch to working from home.

04:10:51 Speaker_05
LS which was perfect. Otherwise, I was working in a very public place, the public library, so ended up working out perfectly.

04:11:00 Speaker_01
Right. And just in terms of your pre-existing health issues, it would have been a lot harder if you had had to do that.

04:11:07 Speaker_05
Right. I think I would have had to quit my job. And so it was better that I actually quit my job in a positive, proactive way rather than a reactive way.

04:11:16 Speaker_01
Yeah. Anyway, so that's divination and how it's sometimes useful. And Rob is also available for consultation.

04:11:24 Speaker_01
So you can search his name, Rob Bailey, astrologer, and you will find that as well as the horary course that him and I are developing and teaching at theastrologyschool.com. All right.

04:11:36 Speaker_01
And then lastly in this section, we wanted to mention that we're going to use William Lilly's chart later in the planet section where he actually has a stellium in the third house and he's like the archetypal horary astrologer.

04:11:50 Speaker_01
So we'll return to this topic. All right. So shall we transition to the 10th house? All right, here we go.

04:12:00 Speaker_05
The 10th house was like chock full of charts.

04:12:02 Speaker_05
We've tried to narrow it down a little bit, but it makes sense that third house combinations with the first and 10th stand out the most when you're looking for charts because they're the most prominently placed in the chart where it's visible to the world that you're doing a thing.

04:12:18 Speaker_01
Yeah, especially for celebrities and eminent people, their 10th house placements show up more prominently. I almost structured this so that we did the ruler of the Ascendant and then the ruler of the 10th house and the third first.

04:12:36 Speaker_01
We didn't end up doing that because it didn't make as much sense in terms of doing all the houses.

04:12:41 Speaker_01
But that's why we're going to see so many notable charts in this 10th house section, just because next to the ruler of the Ascendant, the ruler of the 10th is a very powerful planet in the chart.

04:12:53 Speaker_01
All right, so the first one is actually just a callback to a story that we already did, but for the 10th house, remember Queen Elizabeth and how she had Libra on the 10th house with a lot of fortune there, and the ruler of the 10th house was Venus, which is in the third house of siblings and extended family, and how

04:13:17 Speaker_01
Her uncle abdicated the throne, which then made Elizabeth's father king, and then Elizabeth herself became queen once her father died as a result of that. So pretty straightforward example of the ruler of the 10th in the 3rd.

04:13:32 Speaker_01
So moving on, the next example is Oprah Winfrey. And the time on this is a little bit dicey because it's a 430 time, which comes directly from her in a time that she gave to an astrologer.

04:13:46 Speaker_01
But obviously, it's around a time and the Ascendants at 29 degrees of Sagittarius. So it could be Sagittarius or Capricorn rising. We think that it's Sagittarius rising for a number of different reasons that we don't have to get into.

04:14:00 Speaker_01
But if we're correct that it's Sagittarius rising, then that means she has a stellium of three planets in the third house, which is a Sun-Venus almost exact Kazemi or conjunction of the Sun and Venus at eight degrees of Aquarius.

04:14:15 Speaker_01
And then Mercury is also in the third house of communication and Aquarius as well. And Mercury is actually the ruler of the 10th house of careers.

04:14:24 Speaker_01
So she has the 10th house of career, reputation, social standing in the 3rd house of communication, and she's, of course, a famous television show host and media personality and essentially media mogul or proprietor at this point, right?

04:14:42 Speaker_05
Yeah, I think so. And it's interesting, actually, in this chart, too, it's not just the ruler of the 10th whole sign house is there, the ruler of the degree midheaven Venus is also in the third.

04:14:52 Speaker_05
So it's really just point, you know, all eyes point to the third house here for career.

04:14:58 Speaker_01
Yeah, totally. That's really cool having both rulers in the same house, really showing that emphasis.

04:15:05 Speaker_01
For those that don't know, she was a talk show host and she hosted the Oprah Winfrey Show for 25 years from 1986 to 2011, but also has published a magazine.

04:15:20 Speaker_01
She's written books and just done tons and tons of other stuff all connected to communication and talking in the third house.

04:15:28 Speaker_05
Mm hmm. And what she's really known for, I think it's not as remarkable now that there's been so many talk shows, but when she started, especially what she's known for is just like being willing to talk about anything.

04:15:38 Speaker_05
You know, it's not that she was like explicitly trying to push controversial topics, but she would talk about anything, even if it was sensitive.

04:15:46 Speaker_05
And she just like, yeah, let's talk about it, you know, which, again, you know, doesn't stand out as much in these days, but it did then when she started.

04:15:54 Speaker_01
Yeah, like a willingness to talk about difficult topics, and maybe that's partially the connection with having the ruler of the third in the 12th house.

04:16:03 Speaker_05
Right, that Saturn in Scorpio.

04:16:05 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah, so that is our second example. Moving on, another example that I found is the birth chart of Anne Frank. So Anne Frank, again, this is a rounded time of 7.30 AM, which gives zero Leo rising.

04:16:24 Speaker_01
But for different reasons, I feel pretty confident that it's Leo rising rather than Cancer rising. If that's the case, then we see that the third house is Libra, and we find a lot of fortune as well as the degree of the IC in Libra in the third house.

04:16:43 Speaker_01
And the ruler of the third house of communication and writing is Venus, which is in Taurus in the 10th house of career and reputation and social standing.

04:16:53 Speaker_01
And of course, Anne Frank is famous for the Diaries of Anne Frank, which documents her experiences as a young Jewish girl who went into hiding with her family during the Nazi occupation of the Netherlands in World War II, and then she ended up actually dying in the Holocaust

04:17:16 Speaker_01
and after the war, her father was the only member of her immediate family that survived. Originally, they were hiding from the Nazis, but then the Nazis found them and then sent them all to concentration camps. He came back.

04:17:37 Speaker_01
He found out that his entire family had been killed, but one of the things that happened when he came back is that one of the helpers had taken Anne's diaries and had preserved them, and she gave the diaries to Anne's father when he came back.

04:17:58 Speaker_01
What happened then is over the next several months, he started reading the diaries, and he decided eventually to publish them. Then he went through this process of publishing the diaries, and

04:18:16 Speaker_01
was interesting is I was looking at her transits, and I believe what was happening is that Jupiter transited through her third house, through Anne's third house, as her father was reading and started editing and putting the diaries together for publication.

04:18:32 Speaker_01
She was having a Jupiter transit through her third house, and then eventually when the diaries were finally published, Jupiter went into her fourth house when her father published her diaries.

04:18:45 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's pretty amazing.

04:18:48 Speaker_01
CB Yeah. Apparently, she had actually intended to publish the diaries at some point. She initially got them on her birthday and started writing for herself, but then later at some point, there was a radio broadcast saying that

04:19:03 Speaker_01
encouraging people to preserve their diaries because some of them could be published afterwards to document the war. So she started a second recension of her diaries for publication. So she did have some intention to do that.

04:19:18 Speaker_01
Let's see, one of the things I noticed is just

04:19:25 Speaker_01
the diaries were eventually published and translated into different languages, there were some major transits to her charts at different points during some of those key turning points, especially when the English translation was published, because at that point, they exploded in popularity around the world.

04:19:47 Speaker_05
Yeah, for sure. It's just so striking that the ruler, the third and the 10th are the same planet and that's Venus in its own sign of Taurus in the 10th.

04:19:56 Speaker_05
And then it's like, again, it's one of those wide co-presences, but it's widely co-present with Jupiter, which in a day chart is like, you know, she has both benefics in the 10th house.

04:20:04 Speaker_05
So I think that's a very strong argument for this being the correct rising sign because she's just been remembered for so many decades, even though she died as a teenager, right? And she's remembered for her diaries.

04:20:17 Speaker_05
And Jupiter is ruling the 8th house as well as the 5th house of creative output, but also the 8th house of death placed in the 10th. And so it's like she's famous for her diaries because she died in the Holocaust.

04:20:35 Speaker_01
Yeah. And also, we always talk about the IC importing fourth house significations into whatever whole sign house it falls.

04:20:46 Speaker_01
And just the fact that her IC was in her third house of communication, and it was her father that ended up publishing her diaries, I think is a really striking demonstration of that principle we always talk about abstractly, but in very concrete terms.

04:21:02 Speaker_05
For sure.

04:21:03 Speaker_01
Yeah. And there was eclipses and all sorts of transit stuff. There was an eclipse. Yeah, there were a lot of eclipses actually during the course of the publication and different things. I'll put that in the notes since I know we need to move on.

04:21:17 Speaker_04
Sounds good.

04:21:19 Speaker_01
All right. So moving on, another example that I found is a more contemporary example.

04:21:27 Speaker_01
This is the birth chart of Alex Cooper, who is the host of the Call Her Daddy podcast, which is actually one of the most popular and successful podcasts in the world today. In some

04:21:43 Speaker_01
I think on Spotify, it's the second most popular podcast after Joe Rogan's podcast, which has been the most popular podcast for the past several years.

04:21:56 Speaker_01
So it's a candid and often explicit show about conversations about sex and relationships and female empowerment. But lately, over the past few years, she's been doing more interview-style ones, interviewing really prominent

04:22:15 Speaker_01
women and really prominent people, so that it's become just this wildly successful podcast. She's signed a number of really major contracts.

04:22:25 Speaker_01
In 2021, there was a $60 million deal with Spotify, and then recently in 2024, she signed a $125 million deal with SiriusXM to go from Spotify to Sirius.

04:22:42 Speaker_01
So it's a wildly successful podcast, and it's an example of somebody that has Leo rising, Taurus on the 10th house, and the ruler of the 10th house is Venus, which is in Libra, in the third whole sign house, in the place of communication and in its own sign.

04:23:02 Speaker_01
And this is one of the best, one of those really good examples of somebody that has the planet in its own sign and is successful and talented and fortunate in that area of both communication as well as career.

04:23:16 Speaker_05
Right. Yeah. It's Venus in its own sign and probably acting as a night chart. The Sun is, I think, far enough away from the Ascendant to pretty much say that. So it's like the best planet in its own sign in the third house.

04:23:29 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah. So there's lots of other things of backstory we could go into there that are interesting in terms of transits and other things with some of the history of the podcast, but we will save it for another time. All right.

04:23:44 Speaker_01
So if that example wasn't great enough with one of the most famous and successful podcasts in the world, let's transition into one of the most successful writers in the world, which is Stephen King. who was also born.

04:24:01 Speaker_01
Again, the time we have for him is 1.30am, so it's another rounded time, and his Ascendant could be Cancer, it could be Leo. I very strongly feel that it's Leo for reasons that I don't have to go into.

04:24:16 Speaker_01
Actually, maybe I'll mention one or two in a minute.

04:24:17 Speaker_01
But one of the things that's compelling about the Leo rising chart, which I'm almost certain that it is, is that then he has Leo rising and then he has a stellium of three planets in the 3rd house of communication, including Venus, Neptune, and Mercury.

04:24:33 Speaker_01
And Venus is the ruler of his 10th house, which includes the Lot of Fortune and the North Node, which are in Taurus. And then Venus is in its own domicile in Libra in the 3rd house.

04:24:44 Speaker_01
And Stephen King has written well over 300 books in his career, and he's one of the most prolific and successful authors of our time, basically, with over 65 novels, over 200 short stories, several nonfiction books, including a book on writing, just literally on writing.

04:25:05 Speaker_01
And a bunch of his movies also, of course, have been adapted into screenplays and into major motion pictures.

04:25:12 Speaker_05
Yep, I think that's compelling.

04:25:14 Speaker_01
I think it's pretty good, pretty compelling.

04:25:16 Speaker_05
I'm convinced.

04:25:18 Speaker_01
And his is another example. I had a quote for this at one point, but he has that Pluto-Saturn conjunction in the first house in a night chart.

04:25:27 Speaker_01
And one of the things that's really interesting about that is that he's primarily known for horror, basically, or scary books and scary stories. What's that genre called?

04:25:43 Speaker_05
That's horror, I think.

04:25:44 Speaker_01
Like horror, okay, but also suspense and crime, mystery. He used to be called the king of horror for his contributions to that genre. I had a quote from him, but it doesn't look like I saved it. He's one of those examples of somebody where instead of

04:26:12 Speaker_01
instead of manifesting some of those placements negatively, it comes out in his creative works. So it's like he writes about, let's say, horrific things happening or people being murdered, but he is himself not a murderer.

04:26:25 Speaker_05
Right. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's kind of like the actors. Some of it can play out in fictional ways, and it works just the same in your chart astrologically.

04:26:36 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's like it gives an outlet for the archetype. But it's really important because it's a core principle, but it's also a very mysterious principle of astrology, but we see it come up a lot.

04:26:49 Speaker_01
And yeah, that's something I want to revisit at some point.

04:26:54 Speaker_05
For sure. Yeah, it's a good topic.

04:26:56 Speaker_01
All right, so moving on. Oh yeah, last thing. Actually, I have to mention this really quickly. He's famous for his disciplined writing routine where he aims to write every single day, typically for a few hours in the morning.

04:27:10 Speaker_01
And he sets a daily goal of around 2,000 words and tries to maintain this consistency even when he's not working on a specific project.

04:27:19 Speaker_05
Pretty admirable discipline there.

04:27:22 Speaker_01
Yeah, I have no idea. That's pretty crazy, pretty impressive. But that's what you get sometimes when you have a very strong third house.

04:27:30 Speaker_05
Right. Yeah, for sure.

04:27:32 Speaker_01
All right. So you have the next example.

04:27:35 Speaker_05
Yes. So the next example is a set of octuplets. It's actually the first known surviving set of octuplets past infancy. So I don't know if you all remember the story.

04:27:50 Speaker_05
Some years back, actually about 15 years back now in 2009, she was being dubbed Octomom. Her actual name was Nadia Suleiman. She goes now by Natalie Suleiman, I think. Anyway,

04:28:04 Speaker_05
All eight of them were born within five minutes, because they were of course born by C-section, given how delicate it was with eight babies in there. And so, at least seven, if not all eight, were born with Aries rising.

04:28:19 Speaker_05
It was like the very end of Aries Rising, Mars in the 10th in Capricorn, conjunct to the degree Mercury, which is the ruler of the third house. And I thought this was fascinating because, so this is a ruler of the third in the 10th example.

04:28:37 Speaker_05
They're publicly known for having lots of siblings. There were already six siblings even before that. There were six prior children that she had. And then there were eight more born all at once.

04:28:50 Speaker_05
And so especially with Mars being the Ascendant ruler, also placed in the 10th, they were like known for having lots of siblings. That's like how they were known. And they grew up in the public eye being known for that.

04:29:03 Speaker_05
So I thought that was just like really funny. Yeah.

04:29:08 Speaker_01
Imagine if a client comes in and you look at their chart and you're like, all right, the ruler of the third house of siblings is in the 10th house of career and reputation. And you say, you give the most general delineation you can archetypally.

04:29:20 Speaker_01
And you're like, is there some way in which your siblings are tied in with your career or your reputation in some way? And the person would look at you and would be like, well, yes, actually.

04:29:30 Speaker_05
Right. They were literally known for having lots of siblings, and they were publicly known for it. This was not a private matter.

04:29:38 Speaker_01
Was she doing a reality television show or something?

04:29:40 Speaker_05
Yeah, she did a bunch of stuff after that to try to make money to support her family. So yeah, there were things like that.

04:29:51 Speaker_05
So anyway, I also thought this was just a fascinating example of sometimes when the ascendant, there's a thing where sometimes if the ascendant ruler is the malefic contrary to sex, so in this case Mars in a day chart, there's something about the challenges as coming from you.

04:30:10 Speaker_05
And that doesn't mean volitionally. It can mean volitionally. But in this case, it was their literal existence that was like provoking public outrage for a while, like when they were first born. People got really mad about it. Some people did.

04:30:24 Speaker_05
And I thought that was just like, again, another literal thing of like your existence is the first house and your ascendant ruler. It's like your life, you know. And yeah, that's Mars in the 10th. And then the outrage was because of all of the siblings.

04:30:39 Speaker_01
Yeah. Could you expand on why? It's because she used in vitro fertilization in order to make this happen, but then people saw it as being excessive or something?

04:30:49 Speaker_05
Excessive, selfish. She already had six kids before that. She was not employed. So they were like, what are you doing? You can't have that many kids on your own purposely and not even have a way to support them.

04:31:04 Speaker_01
But then it seemed like the goal, I wasn't clear, but it almost seemed like I had the impression at the time that the goal was then to become famous or to do a reality show based on that, that it was tied in with that somehow.

04:31:17 Speaker_05
I don't know if she did an actual reality show. I mean, she was sort of famous in tabloid ways for a little bit. No, that was just like her. I mean, this is not her chart, of course, but like she just wanted to have lots of kids.

04:31:31 Speaker_05
And so the outrage was also just like, that's not safe. That's not healthy to have like eight babies at once. Like that was irresponsible on the doctor's part. There were just like lots of different little pieces of the outrage.

04:31:46 Speaker_01
Okay.

04:31:47 Speaker_05
Yeah.

04:31:47 Speaker_01
I guess I was just thinking I was looking it up. There was a TV movie documenting her life that she was involved in. and signed a deal for a reality series, but it was never picked up by a network.

04:31:57 Speaker_05
And then she eventually went back to school for counseling and became a counselor. Got it.

04:32:02 Speaker_01
Okay.

04:32:03 Speaker_05
So anyway, but this was just like the ruler of the third in the 10th conjunct the ascendant ruler is like, you are known for having lots of siblings and you are publicly known for that.

04:32:14 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right. That's good. That's pretty straightforward. All right, moving on.

04:32:21 Speaker_01
One of my best and favorite examples actually of this entire episode is this one, is Billie Eilish, that we have a time chart for, who has Aries Rising and has a mutual reception between the rulers of the 3rd house of siblings and the 10th house of career and work and reputation, where

04:32:43 Speaker_01
Billie Eilish's 3rd house is Gemini, and the ruler is Mercury, which is placed in Capricorn in the 10th house, conjunct the degree of the Midheaven.

04:32:52 Speaker_01
And then the ruler of the 10th house of career and reputation is Saturn, which is placed in Gemini in the 3rd house of siblings. She has a brother, I think he's an older brother, and they famously are a duo where he writes and produces her music.

04:33:13 Speaker_01
or writes and does the songs or especially the instruments, and then she writes and does the vocals so that they're like a team basically, and they'll go to award shows together and are probably one of the most prominent sibling duo examples, I think, in contemporary times.

04:33:36 Speaker_05
Yeah, it's a really strikingly notable example.

04:33:41 Speaker_01
Yeah. And they have won awards together at this point, I think. Last year, I think they wrote or composed one of the main songs in the Barbie movie and so ended up winning.

04:33:57 Speaker_01
I think that was one of the few awards actually that the Barbie movie actually won at the Academy Awards earlier this year was for that song of Billie Eilish at the very end of the movie that was so moving and touching.

04:34:11 Speaker_05
what was I made for, I think.

04:34:13 Speaker_01
CB So unfortunately, her brother's name is Phineas O'Connell, and unfortunately, I don't know his birth time or rising sign, and I'm really curious. So this is a funny…

04:34:24 Speaker_01
reverse scenario where we have Billy's birth time, but we don't have Phineas' birth time.

04:34:29 Speaker_01
So if anybody knows it or if anyone gets a chance to ask him, I would be very curious just because I'd like to see what it looks like from the perspective of his chart in terms of having Billy Eilish as his sibling.

04:34:42 Speaker_04
MS. Right. Definitely. CB.

04:34:44 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right. Moving on, the next example is you.

04:34:49 Speaker_05
So Ronan Farrow, his chart has Jupiter in Aries in the third house in a day chart, ruling the second house, midheaven, 11th, and a whole big Sag stellium in the 11th house.

04:35:04 Speaker_05
And the ruler of that third house and Jupiter is Mars and Scorpio in the 10th conjunct Pluto. It looks like we don't have a chart yet. Yeah. Do you have the chart?

04:35:17 Speaker_02
Yes. Sorry about that.

04:35:22 Speaker_05
So Aquarius rising, Jupiter in the third in a day chart, but it's ruled by Mars in a day chart. That Mars is placed in the 10th house in its own sign of Scorpio conjunct Pluto.

04:35:33 Speaker_05
And he is like an award at this point is an award winning investigative journalist, American investigative journalist. He's like broken a bunch of sex scandal type things, like sexual abuse scandal things.

04:35:48 Speaker_05
So I think the Jupiter part is like the award winning, like doing a really good job with third house topics.

04:35:55 Speaker_05
And but then the ruler is showing kind of like the tenor of the writing or the subject that he investigates and writes about, which are often like kind of murky, like unpleasant things, you know, in an effort to kind of dig up like the truth of the matter.

04:36:11 Speaker_05
And it's interesting also that the ruler of the, a couple of different ways, interesting that the ruler of the third is in the 10th and it's that Mars-kind of Scorpio.

04:36:18 Speaker_05
Because what he's often done is expose sordid things about important, powerful people who don't want those things exposed. CB.

04:36:29 Speaker_01
Right. He did a lot of stuff during the Me Too movement.

04:36:33 Speaker_05
Right, exactly. And was like very, you know, praised for that and because it was like very successful and effective.

04:36:42 Speaker_05
And then also, you know, on a less Jupiterian note, but more of the ruler of the third in the 10th, you know, being that Mars in a day chart conjunct Pluto. He's also kind of well known for like the sexual abuse controversies surrounding his siblings.

04:36:57 Speaker_05
He's the son of Woody Allen and his his siblings have like sort of famously talked about that.

04:37:04 Speaker_01
Right. And he's defended them?

04:37:06 Speaker_05
Yes. Yes.

04:37:08 Speaker_01
Okay. All right. Yeah. That's a really good archetype of the investigative reporter with the ruler of the third house of communication, especially conjunct Pluto.

04:37:20 Speaker_05
Yeah. And I don't think it would be so successful without the Jupiter in the third there. So it's like the topic is because it's the Mars.

04:37:29 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah. That comes up as something we talked about on the forecast a lot earlier this year with Mercury-Pluto conjunctions and the investigator or the private eye.

04:37:44 Speaker_01
I was looking up examples of that, and I just found a new one that I didn't know about where the creator of Sherlock Holmes has a Mercury-Pluto conjunction with Mercury ruling his Ascendant.

04:37:56 Speaker_01
So it's kind of evocative of this, and you get a similar thing here with the ruler of the third conjunct Pluto.

04:38:03 Speaker_04
Yeah, definitely.

04:38:04 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right. So let's see, moving on. The next chart I have is Orville Wright. This is a a birth time thing again where the father says he was born in the morning.

04:38:20 Speaker_01
This gives us maybe a speculative sunrise-ish chart where Leo was rising in the morning around sunrise especially. So you have to take this as a grain of salt because it could be another rising sign, but I think this rising sign would make sense.

04:38:38 Speaker_01
So those provisos out of the way, if hypothetically he was born anywhere in this two-hour time span with Leo rising, then he would have a moon-Venus conjunction in the third house and Venus ruling the 10th house of career.

04:38:54 Speaker_01
Orville Wright, famously with his brother, created the first airplane and they did a coin toss when they had built it about who would be the first to fly. And the owner of this chart, Orville, was the one that won the coin toss.

04:39:13 Speaker_01
So as a result of that, he was the first person to fly an airplane basically for whatever it was. It was like a minute or something like that, but it was still symbolically significant as the first flight. LS

04:39:28 Speaker_05
I'm actually noticing. Go ahead. Go ahead. I just wanted to back up in case anyone's uncomfortable with the speculative timing of it, because I don't personally love using speculative times.

04:39:37 Speaker_05
But I just noticed that we're pretty much covered anytime he was born in the morning, because if he was born a little earlier with cancer rising, he would have mercury in its own sign. a Virgo in the third.

04:39:49 Speaker_05
Of course, with Leo rising, he's got the moon Venus in the third. If he was born with Virgo rising, he'd have Mars in its own sign in the third.

04:39:57 Speaker_05
And then finally, if he was born with Libra rising, I don't know if it's still morning by that point, he would have an exalted Jupiter in a day chart ruling the third conjunct Uranus. So like we're covered.

04:40:09 Speaker_05
It's like a positive third house no matter what sometime that morning.

04:40:13 Speaker_01
for sure. Yeah, that's a crazy amount of dignified planets. It's all just fanning out of first exalted Jupiter in Cancer, Sun in Leo, Mercury in Virgo, Venus in Libra, Mars in Scorpio, even Saturn's in Capricorn.

04:40:29 Speaker_01
You've almost got a full Thema Mundi there in terms of dignified planets.

04:40:36 Speaker_04
Yeah, that is striking.

04:40:38 Speaker_01
wild. And it was like one way or another, the person born that day was the first human to fly.

04:40:43 Speaker_04
Nice.

04:40:45 Speaker_01
Good times. All right. Just a few more examples. Richard Petty, this is his birth chart. Leo rising, Venus in Taurus in the 10th house with Midheaven and Uranus, and Venus is ruling the third house of short-distance travel.

04:41:03 Speaker_01
Richard Petty is one of the most eminent American race car drivers. He's nicknamed the King and he's won a ton of NASCAR championship records, a record of seven times, and he won a record of 200 races during the course of his career.

04:41:21 Speaker_01
He also won the Daytona 500, a record of seven times, and won a record of 10 consecutive races in the 1967 season.

04:41:31 Speaker_01
So they say that statistically, he's still one of the most accomplished drivers in the history of NASCAR and that he remains one of the most respected figures in all of motorsports.

04:41:44 Speaker_01
So I thought that was good to throw in there a prominent 10th house, third house example of another race car driver.

04:41:51 Speaker_05
Very good.

04:41:53 Speaker_01
Alright, my last two examples in this section are a funny pair. The first one is Jennifer Aniston, and I want to give a shout out to Nick Diggin-Best because he actually found this example. This is the birth chart of Jennifer Aniston, who has

04:42:09 Speaker_01
Libra rising, Cancer on the 10th house, and the degree of the Midheaven is also in Cancer.

04:42:15 Speaker_01
And the ruler of the 10th house of Career is the Moon, which is placed in Sagittarius in the 3rd whole sign house, very closely conjunct the degree of the Lot of Fortune.

04:42:26 Speaker_01
So this is a funny example because Jennifer Aniston is most well-known for and most famous for her role as Rachel on the hit 1990s television show Friends, which is funny because it was a very third-house kind of show about young people who are friends and neighbors that are living in the big city of New York City at the time.

04:42:50 Speaker_01
and navigating their 20s and 30s, essentially. But that's literally the focus of the show, is that they're friends that live nearby each other or with each other.

04:42:59 Speaker_05
Right.

04:43:01 Speaker_05
Yeah, I remember seeing a funny thing on social media once that said the TV shows I watched growing up definitely gave me a false sense of what my 20s would be like, where my friends would just stop by my apartment all of the time and we would just hang out at each other's places.

04:43:17 Speaker_01
Right.

04:43:18 Speaker_01
Yeah, I think a lot of people are disappointed in that as well as disappointed in how large of an apartment you can get in New York for certain prices because they have this huge... I grew up watching that show and that gave me my love to some extent of coffee shops because they would hang out in this coffee shop and I always wanted to do that.

04:43:38 Speaker_01
So that's one of the reasons I moved and I eventually did grow up to a place with a nice coffee shop and that's where I wrote my book.

04:43:45 Speaker_05
Well, that is also a good ruler of the 10th and the 3rd aspect here as well. Not just the neighbors stopping by or neighbor friends stopping by, but also that 3rd place of the 3rd house.

04:43:58 Speaker_01
the third place and then it's like the Moon and there's sitting a comfy couch. Couches are a very Moon thing. Funny timing thing, she was cast sometime in early 1994 and there was a lunar eclipse in Sagittarius in her third house in May of 1994.

04:44:17 Speaker_01
So that's pretty amazing, both confirming the third house thing, but also because it's the ruler of her 10th, of course, that's there in the third.

04:44:24 Speaker_05
Yeah, so many of these charts that we found, just like eclipses happening in the third, like when something important about that placement rulership combination like stands out, just really did confirm the significations.

04:44:38 Speaker_01
sure. This wasn't just a show or a television show.

04:44:43 Speaker_01
This was one of the television shows in the 1990s and early 2000s, so much so that Aniston herself became the highest-paid television actress of all time at the time with a $1 million per episode paycheck during the final season of Friends.

04:45:01 Speaker_01
So, with that moon conjunct the lot of fortune, it was very successful, and she was basically one of the leading actresses on television at the time playing this central role in this television show about friends.

04:45:15 Speaker_05
That's good. She also has the ruler, the third and the first to add to that.

04:45:19 Speaker_01
That's true. Good point. So, if that wasn't enough, I found a lovely complimentary example, which is

04:45:28 Speaker_01
birth chart of Julia Louis-Dreyfus, who interestingly also has Libra rising and has Cancer on the 10th house, and the ruler is the Moon, which is also in Sagittarius in the 3rd house of neighbors and friends.

04:45:47 Speaker_01
Julia Louis-Dreyfus famously played Elaine Bennis on the hit 1990s television series Seinfeld, which is really funny if you grew up around that time because Seinfeld was the other competing sitcom that was vying for the number one position with Friends for most of the 1990s.

04:46:09 Speaker_01
Julia Louis-Dreyfus was essentially playing the parallel role in Seinfeld that Jennifer Aniston was playing in Friends.

04:46:16 Speaker_01
In that instance, because Seinfeld was primarily a male cast of three male friends, Julia Louis-Dreyfus played the role of Elaine, which was the one core female friend of the group in Seinfeld, essentially.

04:46:33 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm. And also very famously, and similarly to Friends, it was like, you know, these friends that happen to live really close by and just could like pop in to each other's apartments at any moment. That was like the premise of the show.

04:46:47 Speaker_01
Yeah, and did and would just slide into each other's apartments and show up and then sit on the couch in the middle and joke and everything else.

04:46:56 Speaker_01
And that being the center point of the entire sitcom, essentially, is the apartment and the city and the goings-on that happened around it.

04:47:06 Speaker_04
Exactly.

04:47:07 Speaker_01
Anyway, I thought that was a funny example to have those two examples side-by-side with a similar placement, doing similar things, almost like competing roles in competing sitcoms at the same time.

04:47:23 Speaker_01
Vastly different characters, of course, but just archetypally seeing an echo of a certain similarity that shows up in the birth chart.

04:47:32 Speaker_05
LSW

04:47:35 Speaker_01
Yeah. And Seinfeld was similarly the most famous show in the 1990s, and they were paid a lot towards the end of the seasons, the final seasons as well. So very similar things. All right. So that, my friend, is the end of the 10th house somehow.

04:47:57 Speaker_01
All right, so now we're going to move on to the 11th house, which is the place that has to do with friends and groups and alliances.

04:48:04 Speaker_01
My very first example of this is one of my favorite and funniest examples of this entire talk, which is Fred Rogers, who's better known as Mr. Rogers from Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood.

04:48:18 Speaker_01
has Taurus rising and the ruler of the 3rd house of neighbors in the 11th house of friends.

04:48:26 Speaker_01
So Cancer on the 3rd house with the IC there, and the ruler is the Moon, which is up in Pisces conjunct Venus and Mercury and the Sun in the 11th house of friends. Anybody that grew up in the 70s and 80s and 90s, maybe even the 2000s,

04:48:45 Speaker_01
will know his iconic opening song for his show Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, which is titled Won't You Be My Neighbor?, which perfectly captured the warm and inviting atmosphere of the show, as well as Rogers' genuine desire to connect with his young viewers.

04:49:06 Speaker_01
So should I read the lyrics to this? You should.

04:49:09 Speaker_05
It's perfect. I don't know if I can sing it. I don't know the melody anymore, but I can read it. Okay.

04:49:16 Speaker_01
Well, you're the singer between the two of us. I will share this on the screen. It's titled, Won't You Be My Neighbor? He says, it's a beautiful day in this neighborhood, a beautiful day for a neighbor. Would you be mine? Could you be mine?

04:49:41 Speaker_01
It's a neighborly day in this beauty wood, a neighborly day for beauty. Would you be mine? He goes on.

04:49:47 Speaker_01
And the part that's important is towards the end, he says, neighbors are people who are close to us, and friends are people who are close to our hearts. I like to think of you as my neighbor and my friend. What do you think?

04:50:03 Speaker_05
That's amazing. No, I remember when you first found that and I was just like laughing on a walk looking at this on my screen and I was just like, that is hilariously perfect.

04:50:13 Speaker_01
Yeah. Everybody should, especially if you haven't heard it before, if you've heard it, if you grew up with that, because it's a very popular kid's show for many people growing up, then you immediately know.

04:50:25 Speaker_01
But if you don't, then you should pause and search it on YouTube, and it's pretty amazing, especially because he has a Pisces stellium, and he's such a soft, caring character. But just look up that song in his opening, and it's pretty striking.

04:50:41 Speaker_05
Right. And it's like that Venus is his ascendant ruler. And so it's like co-present kind of conjunct the ruler, the third, like in in the 11th. And it's yeah, he was known for being just like very inclusive and inviting.

04:50:56 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure.

04:50:59 Speaker_05
And it was kind of not quite the same as those sitcoms, but kind of like, oh, these people, these neighbors are stopping by today, let's greet them, you know, like there was some of that.

04:51:10 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. It also draws out, even though here it's an explicit connection with the 3rd and the 11th, but it also draws out a little bit, I felt, of the friend component potentially of the 3rd house as well.

04:51:24 Speaker_01
There's something core here where he says neighbors are people that are close to us and friends are people who are close to our hearts. I like to think of you as my neighbor and my friend.

04:51:34 Speaker_01
I think that's actually kind of insightful about the nature of the third house and the angle of friendship that the ancient astrologers had that is actually still relevant today, even if the 11th house itself is the primary house of friends.

04:51:47 Speaker_05
LS And then didn't you have something about the phrase like upon the heart that kind of comes out there?

04:51:55 Speaker_01
Yeah. In Vettius Valens, he gives a list of the significations of the third house at one point, and he says the third house signifies siblings living abroad, queen, authority, friends, relatives.

04:52:16 Speaker_01
And then he uses this Greek word that's kind of obscure that says epikardia. And literally it means something like upon the heart, but the translators, it's not a well-documented term, so it's not really clear what it means.

04:52:33 Speaker_01
Demetra translated it as those close to the heart. And so there's this question of does that mean loved ones, which would kind of make sense because it comes right after friends and relatives.

04:52:43 Speaker_01
I was talking to Levant about it earlier today or yesterday and asking his opinion, and he said, thinks that because of the grammar, that it doesn't refer to a person, but to a thing.

04:52:54 Speaker_01
He said it should mean things kept in the heart, or possibly things on the mind. In Stoicism and in ancient philosophy, sometimes the heart was viewed as the center of the mind,

04:53:08 Speaker_01
It's a little tricky because all of those could be relevant in some way, and we actually truly don't know what Valens was trying to convey.

04:53:15 Speaker_01
Because on the one hand, it could actually be related to the heart or to loved ones, and then the Mr. Rogers thing sounds weirdly useful or relevant. But then

04:53:27 Speaker_01
Lavant saying things kept in the heart or things on the mind could also be relevant because that could be why we get some of these significations of knowledge and other things that come up later in the tradition.

04:53:37 Speaker_01
So we don't know, but it's kind of interesting.

04:53:40 Speaker_05
The wording just really evoked that for me. It sounds very similar.

04:53:44 Speaker_01
Right. For sure. For sure. All right. I guess that's it for that example, right?

04:53:52 Speaker_04
Yes, I think so.

04:53:54 Speaker_01
Okay, so let's move into our next example, which is Toni Morrison.

04:54:00 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm. So Lindsay submitted this example as well. Toni Morrison is an American novelist and editor. She's the first Black woman to win the Nobel Prize in literature.

04:54:14 Speaker_05
She was, for a while, a senior editor at Random House, the publishing house, and was also the first Black woman senior editor in their fiction division. So she has Taurus Rising with Jupiter, Pluto, and Mars in the third house by day.

04:54:30 Speaker_05
And she won a bunch of awards for her writing, the exalted Jupiter there. So, the Pulitzer Prize for Beloved, her novel Beloved, Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2012 from Barack Obama, Nobel Prize for Literature for Beloved as well.

04:54:47 Speaker_05
But what I really noticed here is she's got the ruler, she's actually got an amazing mutual reception going on between the 11th house and third house. So she's got Jupiter exalted in Cancer in the third house.

04:55:00 Speaker_05
It's ruled by Moon in Pisces and Jupiter's sign in the 11th house. So and they're in a really close aspect by degree as well. So it's like true mutual reception and very close.

04:55:13 Speaker_05
And I was like, what's going on with her 11th house there, you know, because we could talk about it.

04:55:17 Speaker_05
Her third house stuff from different angles, and there's different aspects around it but um well one thing I noticed when I was digging into her biography is as an editor. It wasn't just that she was like.

04:55:28 Speaker_05
you know, editing people's work that got put on her desk. She actively curated and collected works by Black authors in order to bring them to greater prominence and to a mainstream audience.

04:55:41 Speaker_05
And I thought, I was like, oh, there's the 11th House because it was almost like a community of, it was a community of like other writers, other Black writers in particular, that she was like trying to, you know, to help bring their work out.

04:55:56 Speaker_05
And so the 11th house is like friends groups social alliances and so forth. And I found this interesting quote in a New York Times article about her.

04:56:08 Speaker_05
The person who wrote the article said she told me that the books she edited and wrote were her contribution to the civil rights movement.

04:56:14 Speaker_05
By publishing black geniuses, she was also forcing the ranks of the big publishing houses and the industry to become more hospitable to her point of view, to the idea that a black writer could write for a black audience first and still write literature.

04:56:28 Speaker_05
So it was like the ruler of the third and the 11th and vice versa, it was like the writing and the publishing of books was for a larger societal goal, which I thought was a really amazing connection between those houses.

04:56:43 Speaker_06
Yeah, definitely.

04:56:45 Speaker_05
Yeah, so it was kind of like a social movement because she was connected with and influenced by the Black Arts Movement.

04:56:53 Speaker_05
So it was like a collective of Black writers and intellectuals who specifically sought to promote a distinct Black literary tradition. And so again, collectives are like the 11th house. And then Lindsay found this really great transit example

04:57:10 Speaker_05
Activating that moon Jupiter says Morrison was snubbed for the National Book Award and the National Book Critics Circle Award, and 48 of her peers signed a letter of public protest, published in the New York Times in 1988.

04:57:25 Speaker_05
Morrison's third house, Ruler is the Moon, situated in the 11th house of friends and allies. The day the letter was published, transiting Venus conjoined Tony's natal moon. So it was like activating that.

04:57:37 Speaker_05
It was like her allies coming to her defense, basically.

04:57:40 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's absolutely incredible.

04:57:43 Speaker_05
Yeah, that was a great transit catch.

04:57:46 Speaker_01
I like how the Moon is actually enclosed because the Moon is at 11 degrees of Pisces and it's separating from a trine with Jupiter at 10 Cancer and then it's applying to a sextile with Venus at 12 Capricorn.

04:58:00 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's really good too. Yeah, and Venus was her ruler.

04:58:06 Speaker_01
Well, because it's like sometimes the interpretation of that, of an enclosure, when you're like surrounded by the positive rays of benefics, it's like you're being protected. And in that instance, she was protected by her friends and allies.

04:58:19 Speaker_05
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And she pretty soon after that, maybe a couple of months later or so, did win a big award. Yeah. And I think she's got Mars Pluto in the third as well.

04:58:33 Speaker_05
And I think part of why she's such a successful author and book publisher, book editor, was just due to those positive things we were just talking about connected with her third house.

04:58:45 Speaker_05
And so even though this is a day chart, the Mars Pluto comes out more in her subject matter of some of her books. Like in Beloved, it's about a Black woman who is haunted by the ghost of her child she has killed rather than have her be enslaved.

04:58:59 Speaker_05
Or in The Bluest Eye, where she discusses a child or has a child character who's impregnated by her father, as well as the violence overall that racism can do to people.

04:59:10 Speaker_05
So while The Mars was definitely almost certainly also editing, as I think you noted at some point,

04:59:17 Speaker_05
Yeah, it seems like it's the positive factors that are connected with her third house that made the Mars-Pluto play out more in her subject matter, kind of like in the Stephen King example as well.

04:59:30 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, my comment was Mars can be really good for editors in terms of knowing what to cut and sometimes cutting stuff, not viciously, but you know, unrelentingly like knowing what needs to be cut versus what needs to be cut.

04:59:49 Speaker_05
Right. For like cutting for a purpose. Yeah. So anyway, that's, you know, an interesting thing there as well with her third house.

04:59:55 Speaker_05
But the thing that I wanted to put her in this section for was just like that amazing connection between the third and the 11th and like her writing and her book publishing, like serving a larger social goal.

05:00:07 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's excellent. Yeah. And shout out to Lindsay Turner for writing up that example. CB Cool. All right. So two more 11th house examples.

05:00:20 Speaker_01
One of them is Paris Hilton, who has Sagittarius rising and a stellium of planets in the third house, which is Venus, Sun, Mercury.

05:00:28 Speaker_01
And then the ruler of the third house is Saturn, which is actually in the 11th house with her other stellium of planets, which is the Midheaven, Saturn, Jupiter, and Pluto.

05:00:39 Speaker_01
And she became famous and rose to prominence early on, especially in the 2000s for doing a reality television show with the friend that she grew up with from her neighborhood, which was Nicole Ritchie.

05:00:52 Speaker_01
And the two of them were socialites that grew up together, and then they did this sort of fish-out-of-water television show where they traveled around the country and tried roughing it a little bit or something like that.

05:01:05 Speaker_01
It brought them both to prominence at that time, but it was partially a display of their childhood friendship.

05:01:14 Speaker_01
Additionally, Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian, their friendship also goes back to their childhoods to some extent because their mothers were friends, which led to them knowing each other very young and even attending preschool together.

05:01:30 Speaker_01
It's like Kim Kardashian first appeared on Paris Hilton's reality television show, and then later Kim Kardashian herself became famous by then starting her own reality television show.

05:01:45 Speaker_01
So it's kind of interesting how that early childhood friend connection turned into larger things in terms of the lives of those different people.

05:01:56 Speaker_05
Yeah, it's funny with the exalted Saturn ruling the third, like famous childhood friends.

05:02:04 Speaker_01
Right, exactly. And then the mutual reception. So again, it's like a strong connection or a strong prominent example of that.

05:02:14 Speaker_05
Yeah, for sure.

05:02:16 Speaker_01
All right.

05:02:17 Speaker_01
And then my last example here I found was Clay Aiken, who has Libra rising, a third house stellium of the Moon, Sun, Neptune, Mercury, and Mars all in the third house in Sagittarius, and they're ruled by Jupiter, which is in Leo in the 11th whole sign house.

05:02:37 Speaker_01
And so there's a mutual reception between the 11th House of Friends and Alliances and the 3rd House of Communication.

05:02:45 Speaker_01
And Clay Aiken was famously a singer who was in a singing competition on the popular 2000s show American Idol, which is like a singing competition, and he ended up coming in second.

05:03:02 Speaker_01
But what's interesting about that show is that American Idol was partially based on fans voting, so there's actually an 11th house component.

05:03:11 Speaker_01
The 11th house is traditionally allies, but allies in a modern context can sometimes mean your fans, especially in terms of social media and other things like that.

05:03:21 Speaker_01
and them voting for him and supporting him was a crucial part of his success, both on the show itself in terms of voting for him, but also then later from album sales, concert attendance, as well as subsequent things that he did where he

05:03:40 Speaker_01
wrote a best-selling memoir, and then released some successful albums subsequently. But it really started with developing that fan base through the reality show American Idol.

05:03:54 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I see fans come up a lot with The Eleventh House, especially if there's positive stuff going on there.

05:04:01 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. All right, so that is the 11th house of friends, groups, and alliances. So now we move on to the 12th house. So 12th house is kind of tricky. It can have to do with subjects like loss.

05:04:21 Speaker_01
It can have to do with subjects like hospitals and places of isolation, I think, right?

05:04:30 Speaker_05
Yeah, seclusion for whatever reason, whether proactive or reactive. So retreat centers can be more positive seclusion or working on your own, but also prisons, hospitals where you're not choosing to be secluded from society.

05:04:44 Speaker_01
Right. So my first example is Randy Travis. So let me share the chart. So here's Randy Travis. Randy Travis was a famous American country and gospel music singer and songwriter.

05:05:04 Speaker_01
And he had recorded over 20 studio albums and charted over 50 singles during the course of his career, including 16 that reached the number one position.

05:05:15 Speaker_01
And I should say his placements, he has Taurus Rising, Cancer on the Third House, and Mars is placed there. in a day chart, and the ruler of the 3rd house of communication is the Moon, which is in Aries in the 12th house.

05:05:34 Speaker_01
So it's kind of a challenging placement there for him. So he had a lot of success as a singer, but then in 2013, he lost the ability to communicate significantly after a stroke. So he had a stroke,

05:05:52 Speaker_01
put him in the hospital and he was unable because I think it also ended up with aphasia similar to Bruce Willis, which was really causing issues in terms of him being able to communicate.

05:06:09 Speaker_01
Interestingly though, he came up in the news earlier this year in May where there was a headline where it said, with help from artificial intelligence, Randy Travis got his voice back. Here's how his first song, Post-Stroke, came to be.

05:06:28 Speaker_01
What happened basically is he's using AI to produce music again, using his voice and using an imitation of it, but it's allowing him to have a creative output again.

05:06:43 Speaker_01
What's crazy in terms of the transits is that when the stroke first happened in July of 2013, Mercury was retrograde in his 3rd house and it stationed direct exactly on his Mars in the 3rd.

05:06:58 Speaker_01
And then at the same time, transiting Mars ingressed into his 3rd house. While transiting Uranus was stationing in his 12th house, squaring his Mars and being co-present with his Moon and Mercury.

05:07:13 Speaker_01
So there's all sorts of crazy transits going on, but it's like Mars ingressing into his third house was like his voice was tragically pretty much removed from him at that time with that stroke, hitting his third house of communication and activating that natal Mars placement.

05:07:31 Speaker_01
But then this year, when they released that new album using his AI version of his voice, they released it on his solar return, which is May 4th, and Transiting Mercury had just stationed direct on his natal Mercury in the 12th house only a week earlier.

05:07:50 Speaker_01
which is interesting because it gave an almost exact parallel for when he lost his voice when Mercury stationed on his Mars in July of 2013.

05:08:01 Speaker_01
Additionally, he has late Taurus rising, so the Jupiter-Uranus conjunction had just taken place near his Ascendant.

05:08:10 Speaker_01
And the solar eclipse that occurred in Aries in April of 2024 was very close to his Mercury in the 12th house, as well as his Lot of Fortune. So there's all sorts of different transiting things going on, but it was a really interesting example of

05:08:27 Speaker_01
somebody who on the one hand had a difficult placement, they got activated in a difficult way and lost the ability to speak, but then later on, with the help of technology, was able to be creative again and in some ways have his voice restored to some extent using advances in technology.

05:08:47 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's really remarkable. Yeah, I remember reading about different people. Yeah, having that experience, not so much singers, but so it's even more incredible that a singer would be able to do that.

05:08:59 Speaker_05
I was thinking that Uranus had to be close to his ascendant, like with it going on, right? Because it's just like revolutionizing something he could do again, and also like something obviously like notable with technology.

05:09:11 Speaker_01
Yeah, totally. His Ascendant's at 26 Taurus, so it's like that Jupiter-Uranus conjunction was very, very close to it. Yeah.

05:09:20 Speaker_01
So sometimes difficult house placements like the 6th or 8th or 12th can be stories of major obstacles or major tragedies or sometimes major losses in a person's life. But sometimes

05:09:35 Speaker_01
Later, a person can overcome some of those obstacles or they can become almost like triumphs where a person overcomes great obstacles in their life and becomes a comeback story or a success story or different versions of that.

05:09:51 Speaker_01
I think that's important as we talk about some of the difficult examples sometimes.

05:09:58 Speaker_05
Yeah, and he had a very incredibly successful career for quite a while before that happened.

05:10:04 Speaker_06
So right.

05:10:05 Speaker_05
Yeah, it's important to again, kind of like with the Bruce Willis one, it doesn't mean that this is going to be the story for your entire life, like sort of the worst case scenario around that placement.

05:10:14 Speaker_01
My next example is Ringo Starr, who's famously the drummer for The Beatles. At one point in time, he was basically the most famous drummer in the world, and he's still one of the most legendary drummers in the world even today. Here is his chart.

05:10:35 Speaker_01
he has Pisces rising, and the ruler is Jupiter, which is placed in Taurus in the third house. So he's actually an example of the ruler of the Ascendant in the third, and he's one of the most famous drummers of all time.

05:10:52 Speaker_01
So Jupiter's in the 3rd house along with Saturn and Uranus, and it's a night chart. So Saturn is actually the most difficult planet in his chart, bringing some obstacles. Additionally, Saturn is the ruler of the 11th house,

05:11:09 Speaker_01
or 11th house as well as the 12th house, especially in this chart, and it's placed in the third. So what happened with him, and I want to give a shout out because Orla found this example, and it's one of my favorite.

05:11:24 Speaker_01
So what happened is that when he was young, he got sick, and he ended up having to spend a lot of time, like a couple of years in the hospital. But while he was in the hospital,

05:11:40 Speaker_01
there was somebody that would come through each week and hand out instruments.

05:11:46 Speaker_01
And as a result of this, essentially, while he was in this hospital, he started playing the drums basically at this time as a result of being sick and struggling with tuberculosis as a child and having that have side effects and negative things in terms of his health.

05:12:04 Speaker_01
But as a result of it, This is how he ended up becoming a drummer. It says on Wikipedia, during his stay, the medical staff made an effort to stimulate

05:12:18 Speaker_01
to stimulate motor activity and relieve boredom by encouraging their patients to join the hospital band, leading to his first exposure to a percussion instrument.

05:12:29 Speaker_01
So a makeshift mallet was made from a cotton bobbin that he used to strike the cabinets next to his bed.

05:12:39 Speaker_01
Basically, what happened is that Ringo Starr, the most famous drummer in the world at one time, became a drummer initially after getting sick and because he was in a hospital for a long period of time as a child.

05:12:57 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's like the positive version of like that connection between the 12th and the third is like the hardship came first, but then it like led him to like what he became like famous for and like enjoyed.

05:13:11 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly.

05:13:12 Speaker_01
It's like sometimes our greatest hardships are the things that can force us in a direction that we wouldn't have gone otherwise, but that ultimately becomes fruitful and almost necessary in order to live out our life story and in order to achieve our destiny.

05:13:29 Speaker_05
Yeah, and I wouldn't say it always goes away, but I remember other stories reading, like Dan Rather had that too with his reporting, where there's basically it's sort of a forced immobility, and then you have to turn to something during that time to do, to occupy yourself with, to become interested in and so forth, where you wouldn't maybe do that if you were just going to school and doing everyday things.

05:13:56 Speaker_01
CB Yeah. And there's all sorts of interesting transits that go along with that and all sorts of other interesting things.

05:14:04 Speaker_01
But I think for our purposes, that's just a good example because I wanted to have a somewhat positive and inspiring one because sometimes that's how things work out. And I know other stories like that as well.

05:14:18 Speaker_01
I know Robert Zoeller had a similar story like that in terms of his history as an astrologer. Yeah. All right, I think we have made it to the end of the houses section.

05:14:29 Speaker_05
That's incredible.

05:14:31 Speaker_01
If you're really looking to deepen your studies of astrology, then check out my Hellenistic Astrology course, which is an online course in ancient astrology.

05:14:39 Speaker_01
It's perfect for beginner and intermediate students because I take people from basic concepts up through intermediate and advanced techniques for reading birth charts.

05:14:48 Speaker_01
There's over 100 hours of video lectures, including monthly webinars and Q&A sessions. And at the end of the course, if you complete the final test, you'll receive a certificate of completion saying that you studied with me.

05:15:00 Speaker_01
You can find out more information at theastrologyschool.com.

05:15:05 Speaker_01
All right, we are back for the third riveting and final act of our long series on the third house where we're going to talk about the planets in the third house and what it looks like by going through each of the planets in order and giving some examples of very striking instances of celebrity charts where a celebrity had a planet in the third house and the archetype of the planet manifested in that context.

05:15:30 Speaker_01
Shall we? All right, so here's our first example chart. Our first example chart was actually found, let me share it for those of you watching the video version. So this is the birth chart of Tony Hawk and shout out to Patrick Watson for this example.

05:15:52 Speaker_01
So Tony Hawk is a professional skateboarder. He's probably one of, if not the most famous professional skateboarder in the world. And he has Pisces rising with the Sun and Venus in the third house of movement and short distance travel.

05:16:09 Speaker_01
it turns out that one of the forms of short-distance travel evidently is riding skateboards, of course.

05:16:15 Speaker_01
And he has Venus there in a night chart in its own domicile, so that this is actually an excellent example of somebody who has the ruler of the third house in its own sign and excels at some third house topic.

05:16:31 Speaker_01
In this instance, he is a leading skateboarder and an innovator in that entire tradition. Interestingly, what I found is that he actually became a professional skateboarder at the age of 14, which surprise, surprise, is a third house perfection here.

05:16:48 Speaker_01
Is that impressive?

05:16:50 Speaker_05
It's amazing. I mean, mostly the skateboard part, but it is another one of those timing things yet again that shows that this is in fact showing the third house placements and that that is where that's coming from.

05:17:03 Speaker_05
But yeah, I had never thought about skateboards being a third house thing, but they definitely are. They're on wheels like bikes, cars.

05:17:09 Speaker_01
They have wheels. Anything that has wheels, third house topic. I'll put that out there. So widely regarded as one of the most influential and successful skateboarders of all time.

05:17:22 Speaker_01
What I think about this example is that with the Sun here, his identity is really wrapped up in the profession.

05:17:29 Speaker_01
to the extent that his name has become synonymous with skateboarding for many people, both due to him actually being a successful skateboarder, but also due to his licensing of his name.

05:17:43 Speaker_01
For example, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater video game, which is one of the most successful skateboarding video games over the past 20 or 30 years, for example,

05:17:55 Speaker_01
So, he revolutionized vertical skateboarding and pushed the boundaries of the sport by inspiring countless others to take up the board.

05:18:07 Speaker_01
He's done a lot of really positive things, but one of the things that's cool is that Venus is also ruling his eighth house of other people's money.

05:18:15 Speaker_01
He's been not just a successful entrepreneur where he created his own skateboard line of skateboards that was very successful, but he was also a philanthropist.

05:18:29 Speaker_01
he would, through philanthropy, he would donate money through his foundation to help build skate parks in underserved communities. So I thought that was really interesting how that's tied in.

05:18:43 Speaker_01
But yeah, so this is an example of the son in the third house and the identity really being wrapped up in this profession related to the third house.

05:18:56 Speaker_05
Yeah, and it's something you can see, even if it's a night chart like it is here, the sun placed in a house, a certain house, still does mean that something that's core to that person's identity revolves around one of the topics of that house.

05:19:09 Speaker_01
For sure. For sure. All right, so moving on, my next example is Mario Andretti, who is a famous, he's one of the most famous race car drivers of all time. And shout out to Orla, who was the one who found this one.

05:19:25 Speaker_01
So he's one of only three drivers to have run one races in F1, NASCAR, IndyCar, and World Sports Car categories. So he's widely regarded as one of the most successful drivers in the history of the sport.

05:19:41 Speaker_01
I think this is another really good example of the Sun as people who stand out and excel at their field. With the Sun, you get these ideas of centrality, of being the single or the number one at something, like we saw with Tony Hawk.

05:20:01 Speaker_01
This is something I was trying to describe in the first house episode when we talked about the Sun, but I think it was my weakest attempt in that one.

05:20:12 Speaker_01
But here, I think that principle of centrality and being number one is much more clear with these two examples.

05:20:18 Speaker_05
Yeah, for sure. Sure.

05:20:21 Speaker_01
So this one's also interesting with him having the Sun and Mercury in the 3rd house. I guess I didn't say that for the audio listeners.

05:20:30 Speaker_01
He has Capricorn rising and the Sun and Mercury and Pisces in the 3rd house, and he's one of the most famous sports car drivers, race car drivers of all time. Interestingly, he was also a twin

05:20:42 Speaker_01
And his twin was born, but he provides an interesting alternative example because his twin Aldo was born several hours off on the same day.

05:20:57 Speaker_01
So usually for twins, you get two charts that are pretty similar, or occasionally you'll get lucky and the Ascendant will switch signs so that the chart houses are different. In this instance, it's like

05:21:10 Speaker_01
The last chart was Capricorn rising, but his brother is Gemini rising. So the Sun-Mercury conjunction moves to the 10th house. Instead, he has Pluto in the 3rd house, and the Moon moves from the 11th house to the 6th house in the brother's chart.

05:21:33 Speaker_01
So interestingly, twin brother also tried to race when he was younger, but he suffered a few racing accidents and had to stop.

05:21:44 Speaker_01
So Mario is the one that went on to become the racing legend, the twin that was born with the Sun-Mercury in the third house. But Aldo went on to focus on business and was still a successful businessman, but just different in another area basically.

05:22:01 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm. Well, and it's funny, too, in this one, then it's like the ruler of the third signifying his brother is in the 10th house. Yeah, so like really shining out in career.

05:22:11 Speaker_01
Right, exactly. And it's like, Aldo ended up was it? It was like entering the world of business and doing investments in different ventures. But one of the things he did was he co-owned and managed a tire business and an auto supply business.

05:22:30 Speaker_01
So it's kind of funny that the topic is still there, but it's not him driving. It's like him excelling in the area of business.

05:22:37 Speaker_05
That's so funny. Yeah.

05:22:39 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right. So thanks to Orla for that example. Moving on, the next example is Billie Holiday, who has Aquarius rising with the Sun in Aries in the third house, along with a lot of fortune. So this is an example that Nick Digg and Best found.

05:23:02 Speaker_01
And Billie Holiday was a legendary New York City nightclub singer. And even though she would become world famous eventually in her career, she was still very much a local New York performer.

05:23:17 Speaker_01
So there was a major third house component of her standing out within the context of her local neighborhood and her local city as a performer. So one of her most well-known and impactful songs is a song titled Strange Fruit. And

05:23:37 Speaker_01
It was essentially the equivalent of a top 20 hit in the 1930s, and her popularity increased after she first performed it and then recorded it.

05:23:49 Speaker_01
What happened is that transiting Saturn was going through her third house and approaching a conjunction with her natal son in Aries in the third house when she first performed the song at a nightclub.

05:24:06 Speaker_01
Part of the story is that she performed it at the nightclub, but she had a lot of trepidation going into it because she feared retaliation.

05:24:15 Speaker_01
It was a song about lynching that became famous during a time period in which that was still very much happening.

05:24:26 Speaker_01
So she had trepidation about retaliation, but also she would later describe the song and say that the imagery of the song actually reminded her of her father's death, and that this played a role in her resistance to performing it.

05:24:43 Speaker_01
because her father was denied medical treatment for a lung disorder because of racial prejudice, and that he ended up dying as a result of that, essentially as a result of prejudice. For her, it was a very personal

05:25:02 Speaker_01
singing this song, and she had some resistance initially to singing it because of that memory of her father, but then it became very much wrapped up in it for her as she's having the Saturn transit over the degree of her son.

05:25:14 Speaker_05
With the son sometimes symbolizing the father in the chart.

05:25:18 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. She ends up performing it, though, and it's wildly successful. In terms of the transits, transiting Mercury was exactly trining her Sun from the 11th house that night. The Moon was transiting through her 3rd house,

05:25:40 Speaker_01
Saturn was approaching a conjunction with her Sun. Venus was right on the degree of her MC in the 10th house. Neptune was opposite her Mars, the ruler of her third house. And then Uranus in the fourth was squaring her Uranus.

05:25:56 Speaker_01
So she had a lot of major transits that night. She records it. It's successful even though she has this trepidation and this know, memory of her father surrounding it.

05:26:07 Speaker_01
And then I think what happened later is that when she recorded it, and then it entered the charts in 1939, transiting Jupiter was then going through her third house and approaching a conjunction with her son. So there's this interesting

05:26:27 Speaker_01
just things surrounding it in terms of the connection it had with her father, which is the Sun, the feelings of trepidation and fear, as well as memory of what happened to her father when Saturn was transiting through there, and then later with Jupiter transiting through there, the song becomes wildly popular to the public.

05:26:44 Speaker_05
Mm hmm. And there was this quote from her autobiography that really speaks to that.

05:26:50 Speaker_05
She wrote, it reminds me of how pop died, but I have to keep singing it, not only because people ask for it, but because 20 years after pop died, the things that killed him are still happening in the south. And

05:27:03 Speaker_05
Yeah, that really speaks to I think, not just the imagery of the father with the Saturn going over the sun and like singing something you know expressing something that's like hard to do at the time but then Jupiter coming in later and making that like more successful, but it's

05:27:19 Speaker_05
Yeah, sometimes it's like, you know, even if it wasn't speaking to the topic of her father, though, it does double as that.

05:27:25 Speaker_05
It's like sometimes Saturn hitting the Sun is like doing something that feels really hard to do at the time, or you're not sure you want to, but then becomes like really important in your life story.

05:27:33 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, for sure. Something you have to do that's hard, but that ultimately is about you kind of like shining and putting your light out there into the world, like whatever that is. For her, it was her voice.

05:27:49 Speaker_04
Mm hmm. Yeah, exactly.

05:27:51 Speaker_01
Yeah, so if people are not familiar with that, you can do a Google search and listen to the song.

05:27:55 Speaker_01
That's something I would have recommended throughout this episode is just every time we're mentioning somebody, if you're not familiar with them, see if you can Google them, pull up a video. That's one of the things about doing these episodes.

05:28:05 Speaker_01
It's one of the reasons why we pack so much into it is because once you start learning about these people's lives, when you expose yourself to their music or their movies or writings or whatever it is, you get this really intimate connection with the chart

05:28:20 Speaker_01
And it really speaks to you and comes alive when you actually experience what the person put out there into the world. And we do our best to try to summarize and convey the key points of that during the course of these presentations.

05:28:32 Speaker_01
But sometimes it really takes going out and listening to it and then having a really moving experience of what that song, for example, actually sounds like and then truly understanding the example that we're trying to convey at a much deeper level.

05:28:45 Speaker_05
Definitely. It's like a more visceral understanding and not just head understanding.

05:28:50 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. All right, so let's move on to the next example.

05:28:54 Speaker_05
Okay, that is Wendell Berry. This is one I found and I was so excited to find it. I thought to look it up. So Wendell Berry has the Sun in Leo in the third house, it's Gemini Rising, Sun and Leo in the third house conjunct the IC within a few degrees.

05:29:14 Speaker_05
And he basically like a farmer, author, activist, his whole world is about like the importance of small communities and the importance of place.

05:29:25 Speaker_05
So his families, the families of both of his parents had farmed in the same community that he lives in for at least five generations back, which I think really speaks to like the sun in its own sign on the IC in the third house, because it's like a home thing, but it's also like a

05:29:41 Speaker_05
You're an important family, kind of like the son and Leo, you know, it's like an important lineage with that next to the IC there, and in the third house of like local community.

05:29:52 Speaker_05
He grew up there, moved out, moved elsewhere for a while and then purposely moved back. So he's known, he's written a bunch of works.

05:30:02 Speaker_05
Mostly on the themes like the importance of place, especially rural communities and their connection to the land, environmental conservation and sustainable agriculture, the importance of strong local communities, as you can see really like third house, sun in its own sign there.

05:30:18 Speaker_05
the negative impacts of industrialization and globalization for losing human connection, which I thought was especially evocative, not just of the third house, but of like Saturn in a night chart in the ninth house, right?

05:30:29 Speaker_05
He's like, he's not into the whole like, you know, globalization thing. Like, yeah, and importance of art and artists that are rooted in place and community, and the benefits of local economies and supporting local businesses.

05:30:46 Speaker_05
So like everything he's written about is like all about the third house but also the third house and the IC together. Um, it's really amazing. And that's why the sun is there.

05:30:56 Speaker_05
Like that's literally his entire identity is like about like, small local communities.

05:31:01 Speaker_05
And I actually knew about this because for a few months after college, I interned at a place that a little like nonprofit that was about the importance of small local communities. And so I saw a bunch of his books there.

05:31:13 Speaker_05
And that's why I knew about him.

05:31:15 Speaker_01
CB It's nice that he's got that supportive sextile from Jupiter happening at the same time where the Sun's applying to a sextile with Jupiter.

05:31:23 Speaker_05
It's very affirming of local communities.

05:31:29 Speaker_04
Yes, it is affirming of local. Yeah, go ahead.

05:31:31 Speaker_01
As opposed to, let's say it's like Saturn or something, and he's like rejecting of local communities. He's like down with local communities.

05:31:38 Speaker_05
Right. I could see that happening if it was the reverse in his chart, because it's so funny that that's opposed Saturn in a night chart in the ninth. I mean, it's in its own sign and all, which is, I think, why he had some academia stuff.

05:31:50 Speaker_01
Well, because also it's the reverse of sometimes people are like they grow up in a small town and then they get the hell out of there and they like move to the big city and never go back or something like that versus for him it was really like the reverse.

05:32:02 Speaker_05
Exactly, exactly.

05:32:03 Speaker_05
It was like very purposefully moving back and that being like a central place for his whole family lineage and then him just being like this is actually a really important area of life that people are like under appreciating and I need to spend my entire career telling people about this.

05:32:21 Speaker_01
I mean, honestly, that probably is partially the Saturn in the 9th house as he's like, no, no, like things far away, bad, like local stuff, good.

05:32:32 Speaker_01
But also I can see that he was born just what a few days, five days before a solar eclipse in Leo in his third whole sign house. And he was born in that period in between two eclipses. So before he was born,

05:32:46 Speaker_01
a little over a week before there was an eclipse in Aquarius in his ninth house.

05:32:52 Speaker_05
Good call. Yeah. So just like that tension of things far away and cross-cultural versus like things that are local and community-oriented.

05:33:01 Speaker_01
Yeah. I wonder, it'd be interesting to follow his story and like to the dates and just like if he had a bad experience like when he was away, for example.

05:33:09 Speaker_05
Right. Yeah, that's true. I don't know. I don't know that much about the transition point, but his works are actually really evocative. He's convinced of the importance of small local communities and being rooted. Read his books.

05:33:22 Speaker_01
Okay. I will get on that. All right. Shall we move on? All right, so the next example, this is one I found. This is one of my favorite Moon examples because when I was doing the research, I immediately recognized it.

05:33:40 Speaker_01
This is the birth chart of an astrologer who passed away several years ago, but her name was Frances McAvoy. I knew her because she was an avid data collector. She would collect birth charts

05:33:52 Speaker_01
of famous people and she would submit them to Astro Data Bank. She was especially important because she lived in a state that was an open state. I forget what state that was.

05:34:03 Speaker_04
Was that Massachusetts?

05:34:05 Speaker_01
Yeah, Massachusetts. Massachusetts is an open state where if you want to, all you have to do is go down in person to like the local government authority, and you can request a copy of the birth certificate and they'll give it to you.

05:34:21 Speaker_01
So even today, if you go through Astro Data Bank, occasionally you'll come across all these birth times. Pretty much anytime there's a birth time from Massachusetts, if you look at the sources, it'll say Francis McAvoy birth certificate in hand.

05:34:35 Speaker_01
And it's because I can tell what she was doing. Anytime somebody was in the news locally, she would go down and get their birth time because she was just an avid collector and had this curiosity.

05:34:50 Speaker_01
had Aries rising and Mercury and Gemini in its own sign in the 3rd house, but she also had the Moon in the 3rd house. I guess I forgot to say we're moving on to the Moon section at this point. We were talking about the Moon.

05:35:03 Speaker_01
One of the things that we really saw in the 2nd house episode is the basic signification of the Moon to collect things. We had that amazing example of King Farouk of Egypt, who had the Moon in the second house, and he just collected stuff.

05:35:19 Speaker_01
When he was deposed and stopped being king, he just had the largest collections of all sorts of things in the world that ended up getting sold off at that point.

05:35:31 Speaker_01
But I saw a really close parallel here with Frances McAvoy, where she had the Moon in the 3rd house and she collected birth data, the Moon in Gemini in the 3rd house, and I thought that was such an amazing manifestation of that.

05:35:46 Speaker_05
Yeah, of the collecting. It's like the collecting aspect. It's the Moon in Gemini, so it's collecting information or data. And it's ruled by Mercury in its own sign of Gemini in the third house. So it's not really pointing to another area of life.

05:35:59 Speaker_05
It's just like here, information, like collecting information. And also collecting information from the local community, right? From your local place.

05:36:08 Speaker_01
Exactly. That it's like the local, you know, her city or that she would go down to the local, like I forget whatever the name is of

05:36:16 Speaker_01
what the building is that has the birth data that you have to go to, but the fact that she was going there in person in her city, and that therefore, there's a huge

05:36:28 Speaker_01
disparity, but the opposite of that where there's a surprisingly large number of pieces of birth data there from Massachusetts as a result of her.

05:36:35 Speaker_01
When I was researching the second house episode, I was looking for lottery winners and I kept pulling up time charts and they were people from Massachusetts because she would see that somebody won the lottery on the news and she would go down and get their birth certificate to see what their chart looked like to try to figure out what

05:36:53 Speaker_01
it looked like when somebody won the lottery in terms of their birth chart. I just thought that was fascinating.

05:36:59 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's great because it's like the collection piece and also the curiosity piece.

05:37:04 Speaker_01
Yeah, definitely. All right, so that is Francis McAvoy. The next example is not the chart of a person, but it's the chart of an entity or a place. And this is the chart of literally the birth of the United Nations.

05:37:25 Speaker_01
And the birth date is October 24th, 1945 at 4.45 PM in Washington, DC. And the data is from Nick Campion's Book of World Horoscopes. He has this as the exact time for the birth of the United Nations.

05:37:40 Speaker_01
I thought it was incredibly fascinating because the chart has Aries rising and it has the Moon and Uranus in the third house in Gemini.

05:37:49 Speaker_01
My immediate thing that that invoked to me is just thinking of that big room in the United Nations where it collects together

05:38:01 Speaker_01
all of the representatives from all of the different countries together in one room, and then all of them have that earpiece on where they're speaking to each other, and it's being translated instantly into their own native language so that they can communicate through

05:38:18 Speaker_01
the international barriers that are otherwise between them or the spoken barriers, but those barriers are being broken down there through technology and through the collection or bringing of people together, essentially.

05:38:33 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's great. Just the whole communicative piece of the third house and the languages and then the Uranus being not just the technology piece, but the quickness, the instantaneousness of the translation.

05:38:47 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure.

05:38:48 Speaker_01
So it also has some nice trines from like a Venus-Jupiter conjunction in Libra in the seventh house, although there's also some notable tensions in the chart with a Mars-Saturn conjunction in the first and that Mars is really the Ascendant.

05:39:01 Speaker_01
So it's interesting seeing the positive things and the advantages or just good things that it does for the world, but also some of the challenges as well.

05:39:13 Speaker_05
Yeah, for sure.

05:39:15 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right, the next one I have is James Holden. This is another astrologer, and he had Pisces rising and Mars and the Moon in the 3rd house in Taurus.

05:39:29 Speaker_01
I just thought that was really interesting because it was very evocative of his writing style where For example, there was this book that was published either in the last few years of his life, or it might have been published not long after he died.

05:39:42 Speaker_01
It's this huge, thick book called A Biographical Dictionary of Western Astrologers, I believe is the title.

05:39:50 Speaker_01
It's this huge book where you can tell that over the course of just years and years, maybe over the course of most of his adult life, he had just collected

05:39:59 Speaker_01
facts and stories about different astrologers that existed down through history from ancient times all the way up into the present.

05:40:08 Speaker_01
And he must have just continually added these little biographical notes and facts about all of these thousands of astrologers or hundreds of astrologers throughout the course of his life before this book was published.

05:40:22 Speaker_01
And I think there's something there again about the Moon and its collective function in his style of writing and how he went about writing that's descriptive there about this placement.

05:40:32 Speaker_05
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, especially collecting biographies about different people.

05:40:38 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah. So that is my example there. So moving on, our next chart example is Maya Angelou.

05:40:48 Speaker_05
And Lindsay Turner submitted this one. Thank you, Lindsay. Maya Angelou has Leo rising, she's got a full moon in Libra in the third house with the sun in areas with Jupiter and Uranus up in the ninth house.

05:41:06 Speaker_05
Looks like also Maria from Twitter also submitted the same. Thank you.

05:41:13 Speaker_01
Everybody pointed out Maya Angelou has a full moon in the third house.

05:41:16 Speaker_05
Yeah, nice. Maya Angelou had a really rich life, memoirist, poet, civil rights activist, dancer, singer, and scholar.

05:41:27 Speaker_05
She wrote, for our purposes that we're going to focus on here with the moon there, she wrote a series of seven autobiographies, starting with her most famous work, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings in 1969.

05:41:39 Speaker_05
And her memoirs explored themes of race, identity, trauma, and resilience. But she was known to have a remarkable memory for details, which she used in her memoirs.

05:41:49 Speaker_05
And I found this quote that wasn't about her memoirs, but it's very much about the moon. And she's famous for this quote, too.

05:41:56 Speaker_05
She said, I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. It's just like the emotional impact of communication is really shining out there.

05:42:10 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's incredible. That's such a famous quote of hers, and that makes so much sense in terms of the Moon and the Third House.

05:42:17 Speaker_05
I was so pleased to remember that that existed.

05:42:20 Speaker_01
And it's also funny because in the first house episode, that was actually a big breakthrough. I didn't feel like we had a great handle on the Sun, but the Moon, I felt like we learned a lot of stuff.

05:42:31 Speaker_01
And one of the things I realized in the first house episode was the Moon and its connection with memory was coming through very strong in the first house episode.

05:42:39 Speaker_05
Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's what's going on there a lot too, in terms of her autobiographies.

05:42:46 Speaker_05
And she actually wrote how she how she did her memoirs, she would, it's not the typical one where the kid writing at the kitchen table, she said she would check into a hotel room, she had a ritual, she would check into a hotel room,

05:42:58 Speaker_05
And then she would just like kind of commune with her memory until it just like hit that magical moment where it just started flowing. And then she would write the rest of the day.

05:43:09 Speaker_05
And I was like, that's so fascinating because not only the hotel with like the travel piece, even though I don't think she was going far, but hotels are like about travel, you know.

05:43:18 Speaker_05
with the 3rd house, but it was very much like a going-to-be-in-solitude kind of situation with the Moon ruling the 12th placed in the 3rd. So she would purposely go somewhere to be by herself, not even at home, and then she would write.

05:43:31 Speaker_05
It's just fascinating. I don't know if she did that her whole life, but she at least did it to note about it. Yeah.

05:43:38 Speaker_01
I know that's one of your major favorite significations of the 12th house is just solitude.

05:43:43 Speaker_05
Seclusion, yeah, for good or hard. But yeah, solitude is definitely a 12th house thing. So let's see. Lindsay noted that Maya was given her name by her older brother and went to live with her paternal grandmother at a young age.

05:43:58 Speaker_05
So they're like siblings and other relatives of the third house. And She also, at one point with the 12th house moon ruler, she at one point isolated herself and became mute for several years. And that was because of the ruler of her third.

05:44:19 Speaker_05
So she told her brother that her mother's boyfriend had raped her. Her brother told the rest of her family. The guy was jailed, but only for like a day. And then four days after release, he was murdered.

05:44:32 Speaker_05
Possibly by her relatives and she became mute for almost five years because she believed she caused his death And there's a really amazing quote about that saying I thought my voice killed him I killed that man because I told his name and then I thought I would never speak again because my voice would kill anyone But it said

05:44:51 Speaker_05
Because of that period of silence and solitude, she developed her extraordinary memory during that period, or at least one of her biographers was claiming this, that she developed her memory, her love for books and literature, and her ability to listen and observe the world around her, which makes a lot of sense with the moon rolling the 12th, right?

05:45:10 Speaker_01
Yeah, that and also the Moon itself is listening and observing and sometimes things we think of as more receptive, but it's important.

05:45:20 Speaker_01
And then of course, the ruler of the 3rd house itself is in the 8th house of mortality and death, but it's also exalted in the sign of its exaltation in conjunct Mercury.

05:45:34 Speaker_05
Exactly. So there was like some trauma around her speaking up initially, but then there was still like really positive third house communicative things that came later. But that quote definitely spoke to the ruler of the third and the eighth.

05:45:48 Speaker_01
Yeah, as well as like the Moon is squaring Pluto pretty closely as well.

05:45:53 Speaker_05
Yeah, for sure.

05:45:54 Speaker_01
Pluto and the 12th.

05:45:56 Speaker_05
Right, right. There were a couple other interesting things.

05:46:00 Speaker_05
As a teenager, she became the first black female streetcar conductor of San Francisco and her mother referred to it as her dream job because she just kept like talking it up of all the different things about their outfits and stuff.

05:46:11 Speaker_05
And I just thought that was funny with the ruler of the second house of your means of income conjunct the ruler of the third. right?

05:46:18 Speaker_05
Because writing and communication became her means of livelihood, but before that, it was the transportation thing at one point anyway.

05:46:27 Speaker_01
That's incredible. I know. The first Black female streetcar conductor in that city and having just a full moon in the third house.

05:46:38 Speaker_05
Exactly. And the third house, it's not just transportation, but the moon is things that go back and forth, right, but keep moving.

05:46:45 Speaker_05
And she actually, in 2014, because of this, she received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Conference of Minority Transportation Officials as part of the session billed, quote, women who move the nation. I just was like, in love with that.

05:47:00 Speaker_01
Nice. That's pretty incredible. And it's also cool because anytime you see like a first of something, because things always become commonplace and then sometimes we become kind of like blase about them.

05:47:12 Speaker_01
But it's one of the reasons why in some of these write-ups, I always note when somebody is like the first at something or the number one or something, because especially at the time when that person subjectively experiences that in their life, at the time, it's like a major accomplishment.

05:47:29 Speaker_01
It's a major thing.

05:47:30 Speaker_04
Mm-hmm, absolutely.

05:47:32 Speaker_01
And then that's why it gets reflected in the chart here in the third house.

05:47:36 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm, for sure. So just a couple last things about that placement. Before she was known as a writer, she was a professional dancer and singer, so more like expression of the third house.

05:47:46 Speaker_05
She traveled widely dancing, and she made a point to teach herself the language of every country she visited. Because of this, she became proficient in many languages, which is, again, amazing, right?

05:47:57 Speaker_05
the Moon in the third, but also the third house ruler being conjunct that exalted Venus, like Mercury-Venus is often good with language.

05:48:08 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure.

05:48:10 Speaker_05
And then the last thing that also I loved was beginning in the 1990s, Angelou actively participated in the lecture circuit in a customized tour bus, something she continued into her 80s. Nice.

05:48:22 Speaker_05
And that was amazing, both the touring and the traveling, right? Which Yeah, it's probably more of the third house than the ninth there. And yeah, just the customized tour bus piece.

05:48:34 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's really good. That's a great example. I like, thanks to Lindsay for that. And then also for you for some of those additional facts that you researched and found. Yeah, and it's cool.

05:48:48 Speaker_01
It's just interesting also that it's a full moon chart and sometimes how that can accentuate things as well.

05:48:54 Speaker_05
Right. Yeah, for sure.

05:48:56 Speaker_01
All right, moving on.

05:48:59 Speaker_01
This next one is one that I originally had in the Ruler of the Ascendant section because this is the birth chart of John Travolta who has Cancer rising and the Ruler of the Ascendant is the Moon, which is in Virgo in the 3rd house.

05:49:14 Speaker_01
At first, I wasn't super sure what to make of this aside from he's obviously a famous actor and like Rami Malek and some of those other people. Communication is very important and yada, yada.

05:49:28 Speaker_01
But then at one point, I had this realization that John Travolta, one of the things that he's the most famous for or the most iconic for is actually dancing.

05:49:39 Speaker_01
If you think about it, with the moon representing the body and the third house representing movement,

05:49:48 Speaker_01
One of his early roles was Saturday Night Fever and also the movie Grease, which really showcased his impressive dance skills, and those movies solidified him as this charismatic and talented performer. So that's true and even gets extended

05:50:11 Speaker_01
into some of his later roles. In Pulp Fiction, for example, there's this famous dance scene with him and Uma Thurman that is probably one of the most iconic and imitated scenes from the movie.

05:50:25 Speaker_01
So that is my example for him because there's something about dancing and movement that's actually a really important thing in his life.

05:50:36 Speaker_01
And that's not necessarily true for everybody, but I think it's coming through in a very simple placement of the Moon representing the body in the third house of movement in the role that that played in helping to catapult him to fame.

05:50:51 Speaker_04
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

05:50:53 Speaker_01
Yeah, and to confirm that, I actually have another famous dancer who is Bob Fosse. He had Aquarius rising, the Moon in Aries in the 3rd house, along with the Lot of Fortune, Uranus, and Jupiter. So he's got a whole stellium there.

05:51:15 Speaker_01
And this guy actually was, he's usually referred to as like a revolutionary, just very Uranian, American dancer, choreographer, and director, who was known for his very distinctive and influential style in the world of musical theater and film.

05:51:33 Speaker_01
And one of the things I know him for and that I always think of is there's these comparisons that you can find on YouTube where if you search for Bob Fosse, Michael Jackson, you'll see this early video of Bob Fosse, and he's doing the same dances that Michael Jackson would later imitate and the sort of movements that would become iconic Michael Jackson dances that Michael

05:52:00 Speaker_01
really was influenced by Bob Fosse in a very significant way. It was open, and lots of people know that.

05:52:09 Speaker_01
I don't think it was something that was hidden or something like that, but it's just something that's not as well known because Michael became this iconic performer that everybody's seen dance and do dances like the Moonwalk and stuff like that.

05:52:22 Speaker_01
Whereas Bob Fosse, especially for later generations, has become a little bit more obscure just because he's not like Michael Jackson.

05:52:31 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's amazing. Because before you told me about that example, I didn't know that. But yeah, Bob Fosse was kind of like, even though he's not as contemporary now, he was like a huge, huge figure in dance.

05:52:44 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. You can look it up.

05:52:47 Speaker_01
It's the snake in the grass dance sequence from that film, which bears just the striking resemblance to some of Michael Jackson's iconic moves, including even down to some of the hat adjustments and isolations, you'll see him doing it.

05:53:02 Speaker_01
So it's pretty impressive. So to me, this helps to confirm, if you're a little unsure about the John Travolta thing, that the moon

05:53:11 Speaker_01
being in the third house and just having a fluidity with bodily movement and having a skill or a knack for that can really be a factor in a person's life.

05:53:24 Speaker_04
Definitely.

05:53:25 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right. So let's move to the next example, which is one of yours.

05:53:32 Speaker_05
Yes, so Andrea Gibson. Andrea Gibson is a famous spoken word artist or slam poet as the case may be. The birth time did not used to be out there.

05:53:45 Speaker_05
We still don't have an exact birth time, but someone collected it on astro.com after Andrea tweeted their sun, moon, and rising, which is Virgo rising with the sun and Leo in the 12th and the moon and Scorpio in the third.

05:54:03 Speaker_05
I'm trying to describe this.

05:54:06 Speaker_05
It's hard to describe sometimes like the Moon and Scorpio in terms of its impact because so much of it is about the emotional impact and that is definitely… CB So really quickly though, so this is just an approximate 8 a.m.

05:54:17 Speaker_01
time just to give the middle of Virgo rising, but people should otherwise not take this as if this is an exact birth time or even super approximate because we just know it's roughly within like a one or two-hour time frame?

05:54:31 Speaker_05
Yeah, we just know it's Virgo rising, so it could be anywhere in there. Yeah, so don't rely on the specific birth time. But even so, even without that, we know the basic house placements.

05:54:43 Speaker_05
And why I really wanted to highlight their moon in Scorpio and the third is because their content, their spoken word performance is just super emotionally impactful. So I used to

05:54:58 Speaker_05
Andrea actually lives in Boulder, Colorado and or close to at this point I forget if it's actually in city proper but and I was in Boulder for five years before I moved to Denver, and I used to watch Andrea's performances locally before.

05:55:14 Speaker_05
They, you know, kind of blew up nationally and internationally and started touring everywhere, but they used to do performances that like the local places that would go to in in Boulder and Denver, actually at the Mercury Cafe to where we've held meetings astrology meetings.

05:55:31 Speaker_05
They used to perform with a social change political performance group, Vox Feminista, when I used to go to their performances.

05:55:39 Speaker_05
Anyway, so the point of this one with the moon and Scorpio and the third is that there's a major focus with that being the secondly there on communication, which is like obvious for a spoken word artist, but All of the content is really raw.

05:55:56 Speaker_05
It's like the subject matters are really raw, sometimes intense subject matters, and the manner of delivery. This is definitely another one where I want to say if you haven't heard Andrea's poems, pause this right now. Go listen to some on YouTube.

05:56:12 Speaker_05
There's tons of them on there, and then you'll know what I'm talking about if you actually listen to a few. I'm not going to list out all the subject matters because they're all basically really intense and hard, but that's

05:56:22 Speaker_05
the point of talking about it as a moon in Scorpio and the third example. And it would be really cathartic. It wasn't just that it was hard subject matter. It would be emotionally cathartic.

05:56:33 Speaker_05
So you would see sometimes like people in the audience cry because it resonated so much. But it was also like really powerful. It wasn't about dwelling in the hard part, but about like, getting through it to the other side.

05:56:45 Speaker_05
So go listen to some of their poems. But this is a really great moon in the third.

05:56:51 Speaker_05
And then I just wanted to note briefly that that moon is also the ruler of the 11th house in the third, and that is not only about the performance group that Andrew used to be a part of, but also so many of their poems are about social change issues.

05:57:10 Speaker_05
So I think that's why that's going on there.

05:57:13 Speaker_01
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense as I was thinking when you mentioned that with the 11th house rulership. All right, let's see. So moving on, our next example, I think that's it for the Moon.

05:57:29 Speaker_01
We had a lot there just because there's a lot of really good examples. So the next example, we're going to move into the planet Mercury, which is the planet of communication also in writing especially.

05:57:46 Speaker_01
One of my favorite examples for this is Lily Wachowski, who has the Sun and Mercury in the third house of siblings, and they were famously writing partners with their sibling Lena.

05:58:02 Speaker_01
So the two of them, the Wachowskis, are legends in Hollywood because they are the sibling duo that wrote The Matrix together that came out in 1999 and was such a huge hit.

05:58:16 Speaker_01
Then they went on to do a number of other movies together so that their identity was very much tied into them being sibling directors and co-writers of the films that they did together.

05:58:32 Speaker_04
That's perfect.

05:58:33 Speaker_01
Yeah, so pretty good example. We have a birth time for Lily, but we don't have a birth time for Lena, unfortunately. So I hope somebody is able to get that or I hope we find out someday because I would love to see Lena's chart.

05:58:48 Speaker_01
Because that was one thing that happened a few years ago. I believe Lena was the one that went on and did the most recent Matrix movie, but Lily decided not to, if I'm remembering correctly.

05:58:59 Speaker_01
So it was interesting that they did it separately for the first time.

05:59:03 Speaker_05
Yeah.

05:59:04 Speaker_05
It's so funny when people combine multiple topics of the same house or at least it's still funny to me because this is like if you just like tossed up all of the topics in a hat and like pulled two out like writing with siblings right like Mercury and the third is like oh but that actually happens.

05:59:21 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, exactly. And I forgot to mention the placements. It's Scorpio rising with the Sun and Mercury very closely conjunct actually. It's Kazemi within a degree in Capricorn at six and seven degrees of Capricorn.

05:59:35 Speaker_01
So it's not just Mercury as the writer, but also the Sun and the sense of identity and really being identified as a sibling duo.

05:59:43 Speaker_04
LS Yeah, yeah, definitely.

05:59:46 Speaker_01
All right, so moving on to our next example is William Lilly, who is supposed to have Pisces rising with a stellium of planets in the 3rd house, which as we talked about earlier in some of the ancient Hellenistic authors like Rhetorius, he would talk about the 3rd house as being associated with divination.

06:00:05 Speaker_01
So I thought this was a super interesting placement then with Mercury, Uranus, Venus, and the Sun all in Taurus with Venus in its own domicile, Kazemi, the third house.

06:00:18 Speaker_01
And William Lilly wrote the most famous horary astrology textbook of all time, which is titled Christian Astrology in 1647, I believe. And it's still the main textbook that continues to influence people to this day.

06:00:34 Speaker_05
Yeah, I think this is a super persuasive one in terms of the focus of the divination piece, because he is known more for horary, and his third house is much, much stronger than his ninth house.

06:00:47 Speaker_01
Yeah. And the other thing is he would see lots of clients throughout the course of his life, and he would set up shop and people would come in regularly to get these horary readings with him. So he became, in some sense, a local fixture.

06:01:02 Speaker_01
And there was other things that happened in his life as well. Two of his most famous predictions were actually about his home city, which is the city of London.

06:01:12 Speaker_01
So he predicted both the Great Plague of 1665 as well as the Great Fire of London in 1666, and the predictions were in the form of cryptic hieroglyphs.

06:01:26 Speaker_01
But the accuracy of the predictions, particularly the fire which happened 15 years after his book was published, really significantly enhanced his reputation and the belief in astrology at the time.

06:01:40 Speaker_05
It's actually really funny in a couple ways. One, obviously, with the city focus, with the third house stellium, but also with Saturn in the ninth and his two most famous predictions being terrible, terrible things.

06:01:55 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah, that's true. Good point. And again, this is another example of Venus, the ruler of the third, is in its own sign and the person is good at something or this is an area where they're fortunate.

06:02:10 Speaker_05
Right.

06:02:13 Speaker_01
All right, two more examples in this section.

06:02:16 Speaker_01
The next one is Rupert Murdoch, who is a famous media mogul and the founder of Fox News and all sorts of other not super great things, not gonna lie, but has Capricorn rising and the Sun and Mercury in Pisces with a lot of fortune in the third whole sign house.

06:02:40 Speaker_01
And so again, it's like being the singular, not just founder, but person behind some of these different companies is pretty incredible.

06:02:54 Speaker_05
Right. For sure. It's like third house focus.

06:02:58 Speaker_05
And something funny I found while I was looking him up and Ted Turner is that it was written that he and Ted Turner had an animosity for a while, but what started it was not their media companies, but it was initiated by the fact that they both had

06:03:13 Speaker_05
They both were driving a yacht and their yachts collided. I was like, I don't know if the story is true, but I could see it symbolically working there because each of them have Jupiter either in or ruling the third house.

06:03:27 Speaker_05
I just thought that was really funny with, in part, symbolizing large transportation vehicles.

06:03:33 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, for sure. That's incredible. It's a good thing to watch out for, like don't crash your yacht into another person's yacht.

06:03:40 Speaker_05
LS It's just not done. It's taboo.

06:03:44 Speaker_01
CB Right. And then one last one that came up in my searches was just Tom Brokaw as a famous news anchor who had Sagittarius Rising and the Sun and Mercury in the third house. And yeah, it was a famous broadcaster.

06:04:03 Speaker_04
Yeah, that's a good one, conveying the news.

06:04:05 Speaker_01
CB Yeah. All right. So let's transition at this point to talking about the planet Venus, and I believe you have the first example here to share.

06:04:17 Speaker_05
I do. So the first example is Diane Arbus. Diane Arbus was a photographer with Venus and the Moon in the third house in Aquarius, Sagittarius rising chart.

06:04:31 Speaker_05
And one of the things she was particularly noted for was being, people often described her as being a photographer of people on the edges of society. And I thought that was really interesting with the Aquarius pieces there because

06:04:45 Speaker_05
Aquarius is more of the periphery rather than the center or the diffuse mass of social realm rather than central figure with Leo. Anyway, so she has Venus there in the third house and the moon and found a lot of our

06:05:02 Speaker_05
artistic expression people with Venus in the third. You were the one that noted photography as a potential like moon in the third as well.

06:05:10 Speaker_05
So she kind of has a blend of these two going on, like artistic photography, because the moon reflects and not just how would you describe what you were talking about the process of the photography?

06:05:24 Speaker_01
that with photography, it's like you have the piece of paper that can receive light, and then the light makes an impression on it, and then the paper holds it basically vaguely, let's say, especially early photography when people were developing it on their own in a darkroom or something like that.

06:05:45 Speaker_01
So that notion of just like how the Moon in ancient astrology balance and the other Hellenistic astrologers talk about the Moon receiving the light of the Sun. And so there's this notion of this receptive quality of the Moon that then holds things.

06:06:00 Speaker_01
And I think there's just something symbolically similar there in terms of photography. And I had a friend who was a photographer that as the ruler of the 10th is the Moon in the third house.

06:06:11 Speaker_01
And that's one of the reasons I started paying attention to that.

06:06:14 Speaker_05
Yeah. Well, and I started thinking about that too beyond the processes of doing the photography, but like the moon also just like reflecting back the people or the landscapes or what have you that's like in front of the photographer.

06:06:29 Speaker_05
They're not like creating something new. They're like reflecting what's there. Anyways.

06:06:34 Speaker_01
It's like a memory as well. It's like capturing a memory of a scene in the same way that people

06:06:41 Speaker_01
maybe up until that point, the only way you could capture those things is with your memory, or maybe somebody draws a painting or something, which is again a way of capturing a memory or an image of something.

06:06:51 Speaker_01
But here with photography, it's like a new way of capturing images or memories of something.

06:06:57 Speaker_05
Right, exactly. So we could have also alternately put her in the Moon in the third category, but put her Venus in the third because, you know, essentially it's a way of expressing oneself artistically.

06:07:08 Speaker_05
And there's a lot of artists I found that had Venus in the third. And another just additional funny wrinkle on that story is

06:07:17 Speaker_05
I found out late in the game that one of her most famous photographs is actually of identical twin girls, which was just another funny third house thing.

06:07:28 Speaker_01
That's amazing. I bet if you looked up the transits to that, you would see something hitting her third house placements.

06:07:36 Speaker_05
Probably. Yeah, I did not check the timing on this one. But anyway, yeah, Venus in the Third. I found lots of artists, singers, composers seem to have Venus in the Third because their manner of expression or vehicle of expression is artistic.

06:07:50 Speaker_05
So some of the other ones just to list off briefly are Pablo Picasso, the painter, Renoir, also painter, Ansel Adams that we talked about earlier, who's a photographer.

06:08:00 Speaker_05
Andrew Wyeth was a painter, Camille Claudel is a French sculptor, Johannes Brahms, composer, Tom Waits, singer-songwriter and composer, which I think is really funny because Venus is in the third, but it's ruled by Saturn conjunct Mars in the 10th, and he's known for having a really gravelly voice.

06:08:19 Speaker_05
like a really kind of rough voice but like nonetheless it's still a Venus expression. Annie Lennox, singer-songwriter, and this last one I found was really funny.

06:08:30 Speaker_05
Louis Vuitton, who was like the original designer of the Louis Vuitton bags and that, you know, started that whole company. He was a designer, which is like an artistic expression, but it was also like luggage and handbags, right?

06:08:46 Speaker_05
It actually started with, yeah, with more like luggage trunks that were more a thing back in the day.

06:08:54 Speaker_05
And then, you know, turned into like now Louis Vuitton is famous for like handbags, which I think is funny because you would like take them around town, right? It's like something you take from your home when you're like going into town.

06:09:08 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's incredible. Don't bag on designer trunks. Those are coming back, in my opinion, one of these days. Are they coming back?

06:09:18 Speaker_05
I mean, what was actually funny, because it was like an artisan thing back then, and it was something really well-respected. It was like a craft, which is like Venus and Virgo, right? It's like a useful designer thing.

06:09:29 Speaker_05
But then he put like little artistic things on it, like made them like rounded corners instead of straight. Apparently, this was a big deal back then.

06:09:37 Speaker_01
It is still respected, so check yourself here in terms of your trunk disrespect.

06:09:44 Speaker_05
Oh, no. No, I love it. It's like a perfect Venus in the third.

06:09:47 Speaker_01
I didn't know we had a birth time for them, so that's actually really cool. There's the chart, I guess, if this is correct, with Cancer rising and Venus in Virgo. That's great. It's actually in Virgo.

06:09:59 Speaker_05
Right, exactly. It's an artisan thing. It was like an artistic but useful craft. And it was explicitly for the purpose of travel.

06:10:10 Speaker_01
I love that. Yeah. All right. Good find. Good find.

06:10:14 Speaker_04
Thank you.

06:10:15 Speaker_01
All right. Where are we at?

06:10:19 Speaker_05
Second Venus.

06:10:21 Speaker_01
Oh, yeah. This is my example. I really like this one because it's actually more of a transit example.

06:10:30 Speaker_01
is the birth chart of Dua Lipa, who is a famous singer at this point, but she has Gemini rising, and she has this very tight Sun-Venus conjunction at 28 degrees of Leo. So Venus is Kazemi, the sign of the Sun. The Sun is in its own domicile.

06:10:53 Speaker_01
They're also co-present with the degree of the IC and a lot of fortune that are also there. Last summer, the Venus retrograde that happened in Leo, when Venus stationed retrograde at 28, 29 degrees of Leo, and the Barbie movie came out.

06:11:11 Speaker_01
There was so much stuff happening, but we really noted that the Venus retrograde and the release of the Barbie movie was perfectly coinciding with the station of Venus at about 28 degrees of Leo.

06:11:23 Speaker_01
And Dua Lipa not only appeared in the movie as Mermaid Barbie, but she actually released the song, Dance the Night.

06:11:33 Speaker_01
Her song, Dance the Night, was featured very prominently in the movie in the dance sequence, and it was originally released as the soundtrack's lead single, basically, and eventually became one of her more successful songs.

06:11:49 Speaker_01
And I was just incredibly struck by the fact that that happened under that transit when transiting Venus was stationing there on top of her Sun-Venus conjunction in the third house.

06:12:01 Speaker_01
And it had to do with partially the release of this song, its prominence in the movie, and then the movie becoming wildly successful, including a brief appearance by her.

06:12:14 Speaker_04
Yeah, that's a great timing example.

06:12:17 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right, so I think that's it for the Venus section. Let's move on to Mars where we actually have several examples. So my first example is one that I use all the time because it's just one of my favorite examples that I've ever found.

06:12:35 Speaker_01
It's George Lucas who was born with Taurus rising and Mars and cancer in the third house.

06:12:42 Speaker_01
The story of George Lucas is that he grew up wanting to be a race car driver, and when he was old enough to start driving cars, he would go to races and stuff and race around town.

06:12:52 Speaker_01
He was planning on doing that professionally once he became an adult and once he graduated high school. But then what happened is that

06:13:03 Speaker_01
He was in the final days of high school, basically, and he got in this horrific car accident where another person slammed into his car, and his car was thrown in the air and smashed against a tree and crumpled up like a soda can.

06:13:23 Speaker_01
He was miraculously thrown from the car right before it slammed into the tree, otherwise he would have died.

06:13:30 Speaker_01
And he had to spend a while recovering in the hospital after that, but he was so shook by it that he decided that he didn't want to be a race car driver anymore. And instead, he went to college.

06:13:43 Speaker_01
There, he fell in love with filmmaking, and then he ended up making a bunch of famous movies such as Star Wars and Indiana Jones, and then eventually went down as one of the most famous filmmakers in history.

06:13:56 Speaker_04
LS Yeah, that's incredible.

06:13:59 Speaker_01
Yeah, so it all came down though to this one event. And what was so interesting about it is that he was 18 years old, so he was actually in a Mars perfection year.

06:14:13 Speaker_01
So the perfections were activating his natal Mars in the third house, and he just had a ton of transits that day that were activating his third house placements as well.

06:14:24 Speaker_01
I haven't been doing this to save time, but I think this will be a rare example where I just want to show the actual chart with the transits because it's so incredibly striking. Okay, so let me know if you can see this okay.

06:14:47 Speaker_05
So on the left is George Lucas, on the right is the Biowheel.

06:14:52 Speaker_01
Yeah, so the inside wheel on the right is his natal chart, and the outside wheel is his transits. And look at all of the incredibly close transits that are lined up over the course of the day.

06:15:04 Speaker_01
So the first thing is that Mars was the Lord of the Years, so that means we have to pay attention to what it was doing in the transits.

06:15:10 Speaker_01
And the day of his crash, Mars came up to 11 degrees of Taurus, so it was conjoining the exact degree of his Venus, which because he has Taurus rising, Venus is the ruler of his Ascendant.

06:15:22 Speaker_01
So it represents his body and his physical vitality, as well as the ruler of the Ascendant, his life direction, since Venus is the ruler of the Ascendant as the captain of his ship.

06:15:33 Speaker_01
And all of a sudden, it's just getting rocked by this really rough conjunction from Mars. At the same time, Mars is squaring the Moon, Why is that important? Because the Moon is actually the ruler of the third house of short-distance travel.

06:15:50 Speaker_01
So he's simultaneously getting a Mars square to the Moon, the ruler of his third house. Weirdly, at the exact same time, transiting Saturn is also at 11 degrees of Aquarius conjoining his Moon on the same day.

06:16:04 Speaker_01
If that wasn't enough, transiting Neptune is at 11 degrees of Scorpio squaring his Moon and opposing his Venus. The south node is at 10 degrees of Aquarius, also conjoining his Moon. Basically, those are all very, very rough transits.

06:16:22 Speaker_01
But then what's weird about it is he had two positive transits that were protecting him at the same time. One of them is that on the same day that transiting Mars conjoined his Venus, transiting Venus in the sky came to 25 degrees of Cancer.

06:16:38 Speaker_01
which is the exact same degree as his Mars at 25 degrees of Cancer in the third house. So I believe that this was actually a protective transit for him that was hitting that difficult Mars placement natally at this time.

06:16:53 Speaker_01
And then on top of that, transiting Jupiter came to 11 and 12 degrees of Pisces. So it was making a superior sextile to his Venus at 11 degrees of Taurus, which was helping to protect and offset that negative Mars transit.

06:17:08 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's a lot going on. But yeah, if you're worried about a transit coming up, usually the major life-changing ones kind of look more or less like this, where it's not just one thing.

06:17:21 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. So yeah, that is what was going on there in terms of George Lucas and having a famous crash, which was a negative event, but it also changed his life positively as well.

06:17:38 Speaker_04
Right. Yeah, that's amazing.

06:17:40 Speaker_01
All right. Another example, very similar to that, but somewhat more difficult is Frida Kahlo and the famous bus accident that occurred for her.

06:17:57 Speaker_05
And this came up because I was looking for bus drivers one night for this, and I was not finding bus drivers.

06:18:05 Speaker_05
But in the course of that, I found a bus accident, and then you looked up the timing for this famous bus accident, and you're like, wait a minute, this is amazing.

06:18:13 Speaker_01
I said it a little bit more depressingly than that. I was like, this is amazing.

06:18:20 Speaker_05
You didn't say it was amazing in a good way. I'm not trying to misrepresent here.

06:18:27 Speaker_01
I was not celebrating.

06:18:28 Speaker_05
No, you were not. It was just like a striking Mars transit to the ruler of the third, it turns out. So pictured is her birth chart on the left, which is Leo rising. Venus is the ruler of her third house of transportation.

06:18:46 Speaker_05
Venus is in late Gemini in the 11th house, closely conjunct Pluto. And then the transits, the bus accident, was September 17, 1925. And Venus, her natal Venus, was being afflicted by squares from both Mars and Uranus.

06:19:07 Speaker_05
So Mars was at 2223 Virgo, square her Venus, and Uranus was at 23 Pisces, also square her Venus. So it was like a transiting Mars-Uranus opposition, which is often involved in accidents, right? It's like sudden Mars things.

06:19:23 Speaker_05
But those two both happened to be exactly square the ruler of her third house.

06:19:28 Speaker_01
Right.

06:19:30 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's really tough because there's already a little tricky combination there with Venus and Pluto conjunct, but then having a transiting Mars Uranus opposition that's very close and that is hitting Pluto and Venus around that time is a pretty explosive combination for essentially like a freak accident.

06:19:52 Speaker_01
And part of what happened is she was partially impaled in this bus accident, right?

06:19:56 Speaker_05
Yeah, she was impaled. It kind of went through her pelvis. It was a major, major injury that impacted her for the rest of her life.

06:20:08 Speaker_05
It was one of the things that, but kind of like George Lucas's, she would paint in bed and stuff like that too, which was striking because the ruler of her third is Venus conjunct Plutus. It's something Plutonian

06:20:25 Speaker_05
life altering that happens with regard to third house things at some point in life. But it's also like very powerful artistic expression, right? With like Venus, Pluto ruling the third.

06:20:37 Speaker_01
Yeah. I mean, she would paint about and like express a lot of the pain and suffering that she had about different things. But one of them was the things that resulted from the lingering effects of her injuries.

06:20:50 Speaker_05
Right. Right. Because it did impact her for the rest of her life.

06:20:54 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah. And there's obviously a bunch of other things going on at the same time, like Pluto's hitting her Sun and Neptune's on her Ascendant and etc.

06:21:06 Speaker_01
But yeah, it was a rough Mars transit especially, and that's sometimes what you see occasionally with Mars transits in connection with the third house.

06:21:15 Speaker_05
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, there were a few auto accidents that we didn't include that we could have with Mars and third house.

06:21:25 Speaker_01
All right, let's move on to the next example. And this was a special study that you did.

06:21:32 Speaker_05
I just noticed, I thought about local governance and I was like, what about Harvey Milk? So Harvey Milk, and I don't know if I'm going to pronounce it right, but George Moscone, Harvey Milk was on the San Francisco Board of Directors.

06:21:49 Speaker_05
He was the first openly gay man to be elected to public office in California. And George Moscone was at the same time the mayor of San Francisco. So the first thing I wanted to say was just Mars in the third house, but ruling the 10th house.

06:22:06 Speaker_05
And so his career was about like local governance. You know, he did other things before that, but that's eventually what he became known for. And

06:22:18 Speaker_05
Yeah, it's not I would impress me the most about that it wasn't even just like the city governance, which it was, but the structure of the San Francisco Board of Directors is such that it's kind of like the US House of Representatives, you're representing a geographical area within the city.

06:22:31 Speaker_05
So it's literally like your neighbor, your area neighborhoods, which I thought was perfect, the ruler, the 10th and the third. And so why I was pointing out the Mars, though, is Mars is in its own sign in the third house.

06:22:45 Speaker_05
And it's got an overcoming square from Saturn in a night chart in this one. And then if you want to show George Moscone's he had Sun-Mars-Saturn in Sagittarius in the third.

06:23:02 Speaker_05
So they both had a Mars in the third house, and they both had a Mars-Saturn thing going on in a night chart. So here Mars-Saturn are co-present, and the other one Mars was in the third with an overcoming sine base square from Saturn.

06:23:15 Speaker_05
And so I'm highlighting the Mars part is they were both kind of infamously murdered while in service to their community, basically, you know, because George Moscone was the mayor of the city and Harvey was on the board of supervisors and there was a very homophobic former

06:23:36 Speaker_05
representative on the board who was mad that he couldn't get back on. And he came in and shot both of them. And yeah, it was really tragic.

06:23:47 Speaker_01
Yeah. That's one of the things about Mars is that, especially in some of the ancient significations, is sometimes it's associated with acts of violence. And in modern times, sometimes things like shootings can be a part of that.

06:24:04 Speaker_05
Yeah, exactly. So it was super sad, but yeah, like a very, very Mars example. And you were noting some of the transits.

06:24:17 Speaker_01
Yeah. So I looked up the transits and Mars was transiting the third house of George Moscone conjunct a retrograde Mercury when he died. And then Nick Degenbest pointed out that Mars was also transiting the third house of the killer, Dan Brown.

06:24:40 Speaker_01
So it was weird that there was these transits that were simultaneously indicating the event for some of them in the area.

06:24:50 Speaker_01
It's that thing we've talked about in other episodes of sometimes there's a natal signature, and sometimes that natal signature gets activated by the transits or perfections or what have you.

06:25:02 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

06:25:06 Speaker_05
So, I mean, but on a sort of more, I don't know, less tragic note, I mean, just the ruler of the 10th and the 3rd and just him being sort of forever intertwined with like San Francisco, like he's like known for being like a San Francisco person and representing the neighborhoods of San Francisco.

06:25:25 Speaker_05
There's even, I'm forgetting the name of it right now. But I heard this amazing musical. It's called I Am Harvey Milk. I saw it performed some years ago. It was incredible and moving.

06:25:39 Speaker_05
And if you're into his life at all, I recommend watching it or listening to the album, which you can listen to online. But one of the songs is San Francisco, Be My Lover. And it's about his love for the city.

06:25:55 Speaker_01
That's amazing. Yeah. And also there was that movie where Sean Penn played him. I think it was just called Milk, right?

06:26:03 Speaker_05
Yeah.

06:26:05 Speaker_01
Yeah. That's really striking. And also because he was one of the first openly gay people in a prominent role like in the country, it also was sort of setting a trailblazing in that sense.

06:26:20 Speaker_01
And so it's interesting seeing that as a major signature related to career in the chart as well.

06:26:25 Speaker_05
Right. For sure.

06:26:26 Speaker_01
Of like talking about like firsts again. All right, so let's see. Let's move on to the next example. This is the birth charge. Let me re-share it here. of Zidane Zidane, who is one of the most famous soccer players ever.

06:26:49 Speaker_01
He's an iconic French soccer player and coach. This example was actually sent in to me by a listener and patron named Christine Bouton d'Or which hopefully I'm pronouncing close enough to accurate.

06:27:06 Speaker_01
Zidane is an iconic soccer player, but this example is really focused on an event that happened at the very end of his career as an actual player in the very final game of his career, where on July 9th, 2006,

06:27:22 Speaker_01
towards the end of the final game of his career. He's on the field, the teams are tied, I think they're in overtime, so it's really tense.

06:27:34 Speaker_01
He's walking by this other player on the field, and this other player reportedly insulted Zidane's sister, so Zidane turned around and headbutted this guy just brutally in the chest and knocked him over.

06:27:48 Speaker_01
And after this happened, the referees pulled a red card and he got kicked out of the game, and it was the final game of his career. And then his team went on to lose the game in overtime in his absence. So it was this incredibly publicized event.

06:28:10 Speaker_01
And it's really striking in his birth chart because he has Taurus rising and he has the Sun, Mercury, and Mars in the 3rd house.

06:28:18 Speaker_01
But especially that Mercury-Mars conjunction is very tight at 20 degrees of Cancer and 26 degrees of Cancer in his 3rd house. And it's just striking that the motivation for

06:28:30 Speaker_01
The famous headbutt heard around the world was his sister being insulted and therefore him lashing out as a result of that.

06:28:41 Speaker_04
Right. That's pretty funny.

06:28:43 Speaker_01
And it's like he has the son in the third house, so it's like part of his identity is probably very wrapped up in his siblings, and his siblings are probably really important to him.

06:28:52 Speaker_01
So it's like if you know somebody with important placements like the son in the third house, then do not insult their siblings.

06:29:01 Speaker_05
Right. Well, it's also like Mars and Cancer, which is pretty famously known for coming out the most when they feel protective of their loved ones.

06:29:12 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah, that's actually a really good point, because that was something Austin and I were talking about in the recent episode about Kendrick Lamar, who has a Mercury-Mars conjunction in Scorpio.

06:29:25 Speaker_01
He was in that rap battle earlier this year with Drake, and it was going back and forth. I Drake was taking shots at Kendrick, but Kendrick wasn't trying very hard.

06:29:35 Speaker_01
But he said in one of his songs, he said a red line and he said, basically, do not attack family and this won't go too far.

06:29:44 Speaker_01
But then Drake crossed the line and that was when Kendrick just pulled out the big guns and just annihilated Drake with this song, this brutal song that just also became the song of the summer that was just completely humiliating Drake.

06:30:01 Speaker_01
That's a really good point because he has a Mars-Mercury conjunction in the 10th house of career. Here we see Mars-Mercury in the 3rd house of siblings. Yeah, I think that's good.

06:30:19 Speaker_01
There's some transit stuff with that one, but we can skip it for the purpose of this. The next Mars example that I noticed that was cool is the birth chart of Alan Turing, who had Gemini rising and Mars in the third house.

06:30:35 Speaker_01
I thought this was really interesting because one of the things Turing was the most legendary for was

06:30:40 Speaker_01
building code-breaking machines during World War II, which were successful and allowed the Allies to break the German codes, the communication codes, so that they could access and see their communications and know and anticipate what they were going to do.

06:30:56 Speaker_01
So there's a lot of different things going on in his chart that explain his story and facility with mechanics and with communications things and all sorts of other things like that.

06:31:08 Speaker_01
But I'm just pointing out here, there's just an interesting piece of a positive manifestation of Mars in the third house and breaking communications codes that was used effectively and productively to help the war effort during World War II.

06:31:28 Speaker_05
Right. And it's interesting that that Mars in Leo and the third is ruled by the sun, which is in the second house. So that was like his employment at least for some amount of time.

06:31:38 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah. All right. Next example, the rapper Ice Cube has Mars in the third house and chart is Lieber rising with Mars retrograde in the 3rd house of communication opposite to Mercury and Gemini.

06:31:56 Speaker_01
I thought this was a funny example just because he's known for his aggressive communication and rapping style, especially in his early days with NWA. But in particular, in his early career,

06:32:11 Speaker_01
his lyrics often featured this really confrontational and explicit language and component to them. And they were often addressing social and political issues with this really raw and unapologetic tone.

06:32:25 Speaker_01
But some of his most famous, his most iconic NWA song was like, fuck the police, basically. And it's hilarious that the guy who wrote that has Mars in the third house.

06:32:37 Speaker_05
Right, in Sagittarius, which is just very straightforward about what they think usually.

06:32:42 Speaker_01
Yeah, and in a day chart.

06:32:45 Speaker_05
Yes, in a day chart for sure.

06:32:48 Speaker_01
So anyway, that's just a little example. All right, two more quick ones. Ryan Reynolds, this is a really recent one, and he has Virgo rising with a stellium of planets in Scorpio including the Sun, North Node, Moon, Uranus, and Mars.

06:33:05 Speaker_01
I'm particularly focused on that Mars though because it's in its domicile in Scorpio in a night chart. And what's interesting about him over the past decade is Ryan Reynolds

06:33:19 Speaker_01
was the driving force behind creating the Deadpool movies, where he took this old comic book character, superhero, and all of the superhero movies for the past two decades, where there's just been this crazy run on superhero movies from every possible past comic book.

06:33:40 Speaker_01
For the most part, because they're comic book movies or superhero movies, they're being marketed to kids so that

06:33:49 Speaker_01
usually PG-13 or PG-13 at the most, but Ryan Reynolds was the driving force behind creating an R-rated superhero movie where instead of just being marketed to kids, it's an adult movie basically that uses a lot of

06:34:10 Speaker_01
curse words and foul language, but also a lot of violence and gore and other things like that. And what happened is he released the movie, and it was wildly successful and made a ton of movie at the box office, a ton of money.

06:34:22 Speaker_01
And as a result of that, they've done two sequels already, and the third Deadpool movie just came out this summer. Yeah.

06:34:31 Speaker_01
So I wanted to use that as a good example of sometimes using Mars-related things, like a bad language, Mars in the third house, but having it in Scorpio and using it successfully for successful things.

06:34:47 Speaker_05
Right. Mars in its own sign in a night chart.

06:34:50 Speaker_01
Yeah. Sort of in the same way that Richard Pryor did with Mercury conjunct Mars in Scorpio.

06:34:56 Speaker_04
Right.

06:34:58 Speaker_01
All right, and then the last example is just one I threw in really quickly where George Martin, the author of Game of Thrones,

06:35:08 Speaker_01
A few weeks ago, the second season of this series, House of Dragon, just aired over the past few months, but it got panned critically for different reasons. Audiences didn't like the later part of the season, and George R.R.

06:35:25 Speaker_01
Martin, who wrote the book that the series was based on, earlier this month he just wrote an article on his blog

06:35:33 Speaker_01
criticizing the showrunners for deviating from his book and saying that his book had a good story, but they decided to change the story and it's going to mess up a bunch of plot points, making the show worse than it should be.

06:35:46 Speaker_01
And what was funny is he published this blog post on September 4th, which was the day that Mars ingressed into cancer and went into his third house. And he's criticizing the people that are making

06:36:01 Speaker_01
the show that's based on his book for not accurately reflecting his writing. All right, so let's transition into talking about the planet Jupiter at this point in the 3rd house.

06:36:11 Speaker_01
So the very first example chart I wanted to show is the birth chart of Henry Ford. And this is another one of those ones that you run into with older charts where it's

06:36:27 Speaker_01
I think it was actually given as 7 AM, so it could be late Leo rising, it could be early Virgo rising. One of the things I tried to figure out as I did a search, I was like, did Henry Ford have a temper?

06:36:44 Speaker_01
And then the results that came up was it was like, yes, Henry Ford was very well known for having a temper. And so I suspect that he had late Leo rising rather than Virgo rising. that caveat out of the way in terms of using a slightly rectified chart.

06:37:03 Speaker_01
If he had this chart, then he was born with Leo rising and Saturn and Jupiter in Libra in the 3rd house in a day chart. And he

06:37:17 Speaker_01
was the founder, of course, of Ford, which is the car company, which ended up revolutionizing and setting a new era for cars and for production by automating the car production process.

06:37:34 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's really interesting with Saturn ruling the sixth house of labor and the third house of transportation.

06:37:42 Speaker_01
CB Right, as well as like you pointed out when I brought up this example, just that it's a Jupiter-Saturn conjunction. And it's like we're used to thinking of that as setting new eras in history and new epochs in history and mundane astrology.

06:37:56 Speaker_01
But it's interesting to see that in a natal chart and having a single individual set a new epoch in terms of cars and motor vehicles in the third house.

06:38:05 Speaker_05
MS Right, in terms of like your ability to get around and how most people did that.

06:38:11 Speaker_01
as well as how those cars were produced. Yeah, so that is pretty much it with that. The next example of Jupiter in the third house is Emily Dickinson.

06:38:23 Speaker_05
MS. So this one, Emily Dickinson, was this one of your examples?

06:38:29 Speaker_01
CB. I guess so. I wasn't sure if we split this one. MS.

06:38:33 Speaker_04
I can read it, but I didn't.

06:38:37 Speaker_01
Okay. Well, the main thing with Emily Dickinson that I thought was interesting was just that her sister published her poems after her death, which was very similar to Vincent Van Gogh, for example.

06:38:49 Speaker_01
But also the main thing was just that she was this super prolific writer. And even though her only publications in her actual lifetime were 10 of her nearly 1,800 poems and one letter,

06:39:05 Speaker_01
she wrote a ton of poems that were later published after her death by her sister.

06:39:10 Speaker_01
I guess that was the main thing that I really wanted to convey with this, is just that her sister was deeply involved in the publication of her poems after her death, but also that Emily Dickinson was a prolific writer and then eventually would come to be recognized as this major writer in history.

06:39:31 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dealing with Jupiter there in the third, also kind of a Mercury-Sun conjunction.

06:39:37 Speaker_02
Right. Yeah.

06:39:40 Speaker_05
Yeah, because wherever Jupiter is, there's often like a lot of it, right? And that's kind of what was going on there with like a lot of writing.

06:39:47 Speaker_01
Yeah, it can be a lot of things going to extremes. I think we had another example of that with somebody else with the ruler of the third in Sagittarius, and we saw a similar thing of being one of the most prolific writers.

06:40:03 Speaker_04
Right, yeah.

06:40:05 Speaker_01
So, and also I just like the example because her poetry without her sister's dedication and initiative to seeing it through, Emily Dickinson's poetry may never have seen the light of day, but because of her sister's efforts, she became, the talent of Emily Dickinson became widely recognized and celebrated, which made her

06:40:28 Speaker_01
sort of one of the great American poets in history. And I think that's crucial because that just takes us back to why the third house is sometimes important.

06:40:37 Speaker_01
Siblings are not important in everyone's life, but for some people, siblings can be really important in this instance and literally would not have been as widely recognized if not for her sibling.

06:40:49 Speaker_05
Yeah, for sure. Do you know if it's a super rounded time or if there's any source notes, just out of curiosity? I mean, I know it's on the hour.

06:40:58 Speaker_01
I don't know. It's just five o'clock. I don't remember at the moment.

06:41:02 Speaker_05
Yeah. I was just curious because at least at that time, if it was close to exact, the Midheaven's right next to the ruler of the third, which would make a lot of sense with regard to only becoming known because of her sister.

06:41:17 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I am not sure. And the placement is Scorpio rising with Jupiter conjunct Neptune in Capricorn with the Lot of Fortune. Again, we've seen a lot of fortune placements.

06:41:31 Speaker_01
I explored this in my episode on the Lot of Fortune earlier this year, but sometimes it's just like having fortunate circumstances that are outside of your control with respect to that topic. In this instance, it's like

06:41:43 Speaker_01
she really lucked out that her sister got all of this together and published these poems for her so that she could be recognized after her life had ended.

06:41:54 Speaker_05
Right. And very similarly to how sometimes things only play out a certain time in one's life and not all of the time, this is an even more extreme example of that.

06:42:05 Speaker_05
At least an aspect of the third house only played out after she wasn't around, but the chart was still working.

06:42:13 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's one of the most fascinating things that I interestingly first encountered with Vincent van Gogh because he didn't sell pretty much any of his paintings during his lifetime.

06:42:24 Speaker_01
It was only after he died that his brother, who had funded his career a lot, and especially his brother's wife, ended up promoting like getting possession of Vincent's paintings and then promoting them.

06:42:38 Speaker_01
And that's how he became a famous painter is because of that promotion after he died. And he had the ruler of the third house of siblings in the 10,000 career.

06:42:48 Speaker_04
Yeah, that's amazing.

06:42:50 Speaker_01
But that topic, that's one of the first charts where I glimpsed into that topic of what I call post-mortem astrology and just how our charts continue to live on after death.

06:43:01 Speaker_01
And for some people that are famous after they died, it's the activation of their chart later on that really signifies when they will become recognized.

06:43:10 Speaker_05
Yeah, absolutely. I've seen a bunch of that too.

06:43:13 Speaker_05
That's interesting with Van Gogh, with Ruler the Third and the Tenth in terms of it being both his brother, you know, making him famous and also that being expression as, you know, his expression was like his career.

06:43:29 Speaker_01
Yeah, totally. And I mean, even during his life, his brother funded and gave money to his brother a lot to help him. So I didn't use this example in this one. I think I cut it or I didn't use it because I use it extensively in my course.

06:43:46 Speaker_01
There's actually a bunch of examples I use in my course in my book that I didn't want to completely repeat here even though I repeated some of them, but there's actually more in my course. All right. So moving on, let's go to Saturn in the third house.

06:44:02 Speaker_01
Let me pull up our first Saturn in the third house example, which is Elvis Presley.

06:44:07 Speaker_01
And something I didn't know about Elvis, because I didn't really grow up with Elvis, it's way before my era, but I did find at one point that we had a time chart for Elvis.

06:44:24 Speaker_01
And I saw that he had Sagittarius rising, and then he had Saturn in the 3rd house in the night chart. And I think I was just curious how that worked out. And I did a search one day, does Elvis have siblings?

06:44:35 Speaker_01
And it came back, and the answer was he was actually a twin, but his brother died in birth, and that this actually really impacted Elvis when he grew up.

06:44:54 Speaker_01
He had an identical twin brother named Jesse, who was stillborn, that was delivered 35 minutes before Elvis.

06:45:04 Speaker_01
I have some quotes from Elvis that are just really fascinating, where he often seemed to reflect on his brother and how that altered his life trajectory.

06:45:13 Speaker_01
He says, I suppose it might have been different if my brother had lived, but he didn't live, and I grew up alone. I guess my mother and my father, too, of course, were trying to make up for that by giving me enough love for both.

06:45:27 Speaker_01
I was interested in that he emphasized that he grew up alone, so he had this sense of loneliness, which is a very Saturn keyword or signification as a result of this loss that he would have had a brother. Right.

06:45:44 Speaker_01
Elsewhere, another quote, he says, I always felt alone, even in a crowd. And even though it's like a separate quote, I sort of wonder if it harkens back to that previous quote about being alone because of not having his brother.

06:46:02 Speaker_01
Elsewhere, he said, I have a twin brother that died at birth, so I guess I'm two people. Elsewhere, he says, when I was a child, ladies would come to the house and tell my mother how lucky she was to have me.

06:46:14 Speaker_01
She'd say, yes, but I had two sons and I lost one. So it's like the death of the brother seriously impacted the mother, and it was something that Elvis himself felt emotionally through her.

06:46:28 Speaker_05
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, because not not everyone would like if someone else had the same circumstance, but their parents didn't maybe say something like that, or really evoke the absence like it probably would have been different.

06:46:42 Speaker_01
Right, for sure. Elsewhere, one more quote, he says, I often think of what it would have been like to have a brother, someone to share my life with, someone to lean on.

06:46:51 Speaker_01
Even as an adult, it was something he really reflected and felt strongly about in some way. And

06:47:01 Speaker_01
There's some rumors, I don't know, I was having a hard time verifying this, but some close friends and family members supposedly shared stories suggesting that Elvis believed that he could sense his brother's presence or even communicate with him in some way.

06:47:15 Speaker_01
I thought that was interesting, even though I couldn't find any explicit quotes from Elvis himself about that. Yeah, so that is that.

06:47:25 Speaker_01
The Moon we can see is down there separating from a conjunction with Saturn, and I think that's really interesting that that was like the last aspect the Moon made. So there's something important going on there.

06:47:37 Speaker_05
Yeah, I was thinking of that close conjunction too, even though they're separating, especially with the Moon ruling the eighth house of death.

06:47:47 Speaker_01
And like Pluto in the 8th house. And it's like the Moon is in the 8th house of death and it's in the 4th house of parents. And maybe it was partially like his mom being so impacted by that.

06:48:01 Speaker_01
If she's saying stuff like that to visitors, they're like, congrats, you have a great kid. And she's like, well, I used to have two. I should have two. That's kind of a bummer on Elvis's part.

06:48:12 Speaker_01
And he's kind of feeling some of that or that's impacting him in some way.

06:48:16 Speaker_04
CB Yeah.

06:48:19 Speaker_01
All right. So moving on, another example of Saturn in the third house that I found recently. This is the birth chart of Eddie Kidd, who has Scorpio rising, and Saturn in Capricorn in the third house along with the Moon. So

06:48:39 Speaker_01
Eddie Kidd's really interesting because he's kind of like Evel Knievel in that he was a motorcycle stunt performer who was really prominent and became famous in the 1970s and 1980s with these really incredible motorcycle jumps and death-defying stunts, so that he became sort of like a household name.

06:48:59 Speaker_01
And he was frequently in a bunch of movies, including three James Bond films, including the film GoldenEye, where he played a double for Pierce Brosnan doing some motorcycle jumps, basically.

06:49:15 Speaker_01
He performed 12,000 jumps during the course of his career, jumping over cars and buses. He even jumped over the Great Wall of China on a motorcycle at one point. But then what happened is one day he did a jump, but he was injured.

06:49:30 Speaker_01
He came down too hard and his head went down violently and slammed into the motorcycle, and it left him paralyzed and with brain damage so that he was unable to walk and unable to speak.

06:49:47 Speaker_01
He was actually initially injured and left in a coma, but he only regained consciousness three months later after the accident and found that he was paralyzed and that he couldn't speak the same way that he used to before.

06:50:03 Speaker_05
Yeah, that is really tragic.

06:50:06 Speaker_01
Yeah, so it's very similar to, for example, the the case with our earlier Saturn in the third example of Christopher Reeve, where the Saturn is saying no to both movement but also communication to some extent as well.

06:50:28 Speaker_01
And of course, when I looked up the transits and stuff, eclipses preceded the event by a few months in some notable sectors of the chart. Then later on, though, in the 2010s and 2011 and 2010, he actually

06:50:51 Speaker_01
walked in the 2011 London Marathon, where he got out of his wheelchair at the start, and he walked the rest of the way starting April 17th, 2011.

06:51:02 Speaker_01
He walked the entire marathon, which took him four weeks to complete, but he called it his greatest stunt yet, and he eventually completed it on June 6th.

06:51:14 Speaker_01
And I thought this was amazing because the day that he finished the marathon, the closest transit he was having was Uranus squaring his Saturn in the third house. And Uranus was actually stationing at that very degree over the course of that month.

06:51:30 Speaker_01
So it was really like he was rebelling against the limitations that his injury put on his movement and doing his best to break free of that.

06:51:38 Speaker_05
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

06:51:40 Speaker_05
And it makes sense both with, you know, the Mars Uranus is doing a lot in this chart, like, you know, on top of the Saturn in the third, like the Mars ruling the sixth house, injuries, and being in a day chart and like closely conjunct Uranus and prominently placed in the 10th.

06:51:54 Speaker_05
So it's like his death defying stunts, but also the injury. But yeah, and it's interesting that this is then Saturn in a day chart and Saturn in its own sign.

06:52:06 Speaker_05
And so it was the kind of thing where he could actually keep working on it later, you know, to regain some mobility. Yeah, that's interesting.

06:52:15 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. Anyways, he also eventually in 2012 also carried the Olympic torch. So there was some hope and some fighting against things as well.

06:52:28 Speaker_01
And he's been recognized since then as just a legendary stunt performer and somebody that was really influential in terms of that field. All right. So that takes us to the next example. This is not the chart of a person.

06:52:43 Speaker_01
This is a chart of a business, but it's just to show you the third house component. So this is the birth chart of the Mercury Cafe, which is where we used to host our local astrology meetings, right?

06:52:53 Speaker_05
LS Yes, and they're still being hosted, but not by us.

06:52:57 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, shout out to Rosalie, who's doing an amazing job running the Denver Astrology Group meetings, if anyone's ever in town.

06:53:05 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm. So this is the chart of the moment that the business in that location opened. Marilyn, the owner, had a previous location.

06:53:15 Speaker_05
But anyway, she famously, if you've seen, if you've ever been there or seen pictures from the outside, there's a big wall painting of like the birth chart of the opening of that location for the business.

06:53:28 Speaker_05
So the Scorpio rising chart Uranus Neptune and Saturn and Capricorn in the third house. And this was something we noticed. This is a transit example, really.

06:53:39 Speaker_05
It was something we noticed, because Saturn and Pluto, Pluto went into Capricorn around 2008, and then Saturn around 2017.

06:53:50 Speaker_05
And what happened, that meant that there was a Saturn return going on in the third house, as well as Pluto going very slowly through the third house, and then there being that transiting Saturn-Pluto conjunction at one point.

06:54:03 Speaker_05
And what happened is the entire neighborhood changed around the business. It was so striking that we were repeatedly commenting on it when we would come there for meetings.

06:54:13 Speaker_05
And at first, there were new tent encampments by people who were unhoused, kind of lining the entire block, which was new.

06:54:25 Speaker_05
Not that that hasn't happened in lots of places, but still we had the chart of the business and that was representing the neighborhood.

06:54:31 Speaker_01
And it's like initially the Mercury Cafe, when it was started, it was kind of on like the outskirts of downtown Denver where there was just like warehouses and it was sort of in the middle of nowhere.

06:54:42 Speaker_01
So there was nothing around it in terms of other buildings basically.

06:54:47 Speaker_05
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Which I think speaks to the Saturn there, natally. And then after that, then all of a sudden, all these major, huge, tall buildings and large condo buildings started being built entirely surrounding that block, that neighborhood.

06:55:11 Speaker_05
It was suddenly construction everywhere, which I think is like the Saturn part of the Saturn return. There was lots of building going on.

06:55:21 Speaker_05
Eventually, by the end, it had changed the entire look and character of the immediate surrounding neighborhood, and the Mercury Cafe building was more standing out now that it was not a high-rise.

06:55:34 Speaker_01
Yeah, so there was just all these huge buildings sprung up around it, and it's just this little tiny building that's sitting there. And then all of a sudden, right next to it, there's huge buildings and parking garages and skyscrapers and stuff.

06:55:48 Speaker_01
And then there's other little local businesses that moved in across the street, so it starts becoming this flourishing area across the street with all these businesses.

06:55:58 Speaker_01
But it was just such a rapid and dramatic change that took place over the course of

06:56:02 Speaker_01
this three-year period where you could see the upwards construction of all of these buildings around it in the immediate vicinity of this building as Saturn was transiting through Capricorn in the third house between 2017 and 2020?

06:56:15 Speaker_05
LS Yeah, for sure. And it was striking that it was Saturn returning in Capricorn in the third because I really think the tall buildings as part of the Capricorn, right? Like with the mountain goats kind of scaling the heights

06:56:31 Speaker_01
Yeah, just the vertical upwards thing.

06:56:35 Speaker_01
It's hard to convey unless you're there and seeing it, but it was striking that the third house can be neighborhoods not just for people, but also for other entities that sometimes you have to think about what that looks like even in inception charts or electional charts.

06:56:52 Speaker_05
Exactly. And, you know, the last thing I would say about the Capricorn is that it was just striking that it was all these like, not just the tallness of the buildings, but they were kind of like very formal.

06:57:02 Speaker_05
You know, before it was like kind of small, different little buildings. This was very, it just felt very like corporate, I guess.

06:57:11 Speaker_01
Yeah, like, like two of them were like corporate condo buildings, or actually three or four of them were like corporate condo buildings. Yeah, anyway, so that is that. And then not too long after that time, it was actually sold.

06:57:25 Speaker_01
And the original owner, who was also an astrologer, sold it to other people. And so it was weird that there's also a transition of ownership, which may have related to the Saturn also ruling the fourth house.

06:57:36 Speaker_01
Because I was thinking about what is the fourth house for a building? And what are the parents of a building? But it's the owner, I think, to some extent.

06:57:46 Speaker_05
Yeah, it could be. Yeah. And it is now up for sale again.

06:57:49 Speaker_01
CB Right. Yeah, it's already being sold a few years again later, and hopefully it continues to exist and it has good new owners.

06:57:58 Speaker_01
Kind of nervous about Mercury ingressing into that fourth house or Pluto ingressing into that fourth house, but we'll see how it goes. All right. So let's move on to Uranus in the third house.

06:58:11 Speaker_05
LS For the purpose of this recording, I thought we didn't believe in outer planets anymore.

06:58:17 Speaker_01
Yes, we could stop believing in outer planets just to cut it off here and call it a night and go to bed. What was the data? I meant to mention the data of when we started.

06:58:26 Speaker_01
We were recording this on Monday, September 23rd, 2024, and we were supposed to start at like what? Like 1210, but we started like 30 minutes later with- It was sad rising. Mercury coming just off of the midheaven?

06:58:43 Speaker_05
Yes.

06:58:45 Speaker_01
Yeah, so the Mercury into Heaven had just passed Mercury. So if anyone wants to rectify that birth data, that is our chart with Sagittarius rising today. All right, so we're not going to forget about the outer planets.

06:58:57 Speaker_01
We're going to power through like good astrological soldiers and finish out the outer planets for our modern astrology brethren who those are so important to as they are to us, obviously. All right, Richard Pryor.

06:59:12 Speaker_01
So this is just a callback because I just wanted to call back and make an easy one where people kept talking about how he revolutionized comedy with

06:59:23 Speaker_01
the use of profanity with his openness, his talking about political things, talking about things that were dark and difficult.

06:59:32 Speaker_01
And there's a lot of different things going on there in his chart, but the use of terms like revolutionary often makes me think of Uranus. And I just think it's so interesting how Uranus is there in his third house in his chart.

06:59:44 Speaker_05
Something different or something new going on in that area?

06:59:47 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. All right, the next chart is another inception chart. This is the birth chart of when the first website was launched by Tim Berners-Lee in 1991, and it happened with Scorpio rising.

07:00:07 Speaker_01
Uranus and Neptune were conjunct the North Node in Capricorn in the 3rd house of communication. I just think it's interesting how we have these Uranian themes in the 3rd house of you know, revolutionary communication things.

07:00:22 Speaker_01
And this is, you know, what's more revolutionary than that, than the start of the internet.

07:00:28 Speaker_05
Right, right. And I don't know if you wanted to skip or read any of the excerpt, but I had a funny thought in there.

07:00:38 Speaker_01
Sure, go ahead.

07:00:39 Speaker_05
Okay. Do you want me to read it?

07:00:42 Speaker_01
Like the whole thing?

07:00:43 Speaker_05
Yeah, either or.

07:00:46 Speaker_01
Sure, if you'd like to.

07:00:48 Speaker_05
Nobody was paying attention to Tim Berners-Lee and his pet idea.

07:00:51 Speaker_05
He was a young British scientist at CERN, a high energy physics lab in Geneva, and he had a radical new way for scientists to share data by linking documents to one another over the internet.

07:01:02 Speaker_05
He'd kicked around a few different names for it, including the infromesh, and the information mine, but he wasn't getting much interest from his bosses.

07:01:09 Speaker_05
His proposal came back with the words, quote, vague, but exciting, written across the cover, which just made me laugh quite a lot with the Uranus Neptune in the third there, right?

07:01:18 Speaker_06
Right.

07:01:19 Speaker_05
That's literal. So Berners-Lee took his invention to the people. He posted a message to a news group, a kind of electronic public access bulletin board announcing the existence of the World Wide Web WWW project.

07:01:33 Speaker_05
The message included instructions on how to download the very first web browser from the very first website, info.cern.ch.

07:01:40 Speaker_05
Berners-Lee computer faithfully logged the exact second the site was launched, which is great for us, 2-56-20 p.m., August 6, 1991. He posted it and we came.

07:01:50 Speaker_05
From that day forward, traffic to info.cern.ch rose exponentially from 10 hits a day to 100, 1,000, and beyond. Berners-Lee had no idea that he had fired the first shot in a revolution

07:02:02 Speaker_05
that would bring us homepages, search engines, Beanie Baby auctions, and the dot-com bust, but he knew that something special had happened.

07:02:09 Speaker_05
Quote, of all the browsers people wrote, Berners-Lee remembers, and all the servers they put up, very few of them were done because a manager asked for them.

07:02:18 Speaker_05
They were done because somebody read one of these newsgroup messages and got that twinkle in their eye. And I like that, like, the first shot in a revolution of like a third house thing.

07:02:30 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, I love that. That's a great imagery symbolically for that placement, especially with Uranus.

07:02:36 Speaker_05
LS Yeah. This is like the vague but exciting thing, made me laugh a lot. But yeah, it's like an interesting Uranus-Neptune thing because it was like revolutionary but also very open to everyone.

07:02:46 Speaker_01
CB Brilliant. All right. And let's see, moving on. I'm going to skip one example, and I'll just mention one I had because this is one that you commonly commented on at the time. This is my chart. I have Aquarius rising, my third house is Aries.

07:03:12 Speaker_01
There it is, Aquarius rising, Aries is my third house. In 2010, Uranus was making its way into my third house. and it would go through a seven-year transit there all the way through 2018.

07:03:28 Speaker_01
And right at the beginning of that transit, I took over another podcast from another astrologer called Traditional Astrology Radio on my birthday in 2010. And then two years later, the domain name, The Astrology Podcast, just unexpectedly fell into my lap.

07:03:39 Speaker_01
I bought it, and then I launched this podcast during the course of that time.

07:03:53 Speaker_01
And over the course of that seven-year period, I had to learn a lot about technology in order to build a successful podcast. I had to learn a lot of different things about microphones and audio editing and websites.

07:04:10 Speaker_01
I started doing video in 2017 after my book came out, and I had to learn about lighting and all this other stuff.

07:04:16 Speaker_01
So there was this huge technological component, but then there was also a component that had to do with my voice, where my voice changed rapidly during the course of that. I found my voice

07:04:28 Speaker_01
And that's not all having to do with Uranus, but there was just a major component of revolutionary things happening in the way that I communicated, especially using technology through the podcast during the course of that transit, and it pretty closely aligned with Uranus going into my third house.

07:04:47 Speaker_01
And then by the end of it, the podcast was successful and it was already on its way to becoming super successful.

07:04:55 Speaker_01
And in 2017, before Uranus departed from my third house, I actually also finished writing my book after 10 years of working on it and published that in 2017.

07:05:03 Speaker_05
Yeah, it was really striking watching it from start to finish, just Uranus activating all of those third house topics.

07:05:14 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of other things related to that, but I think that's it.

07:05:21 Speaker_01
It was just an interesting Uranus transit through my third house in a way that that can sometimes manifest in very interesting ways, revolutions of communication even within an individual life. All right, let's move into Neptune.

07:05:38 Speaker_01
This one's tricky because it's hard to get around this example because it's just the most obvious example.

07:05:43 Speaker_01
But the most obvious contemporary example of Neptune in the 3rd house is Donald Trump, who has Neptune stationing in Libra in the 3rd house of communication, and it's also closely square Mercury in the 12th.

07:06:00 Speaker_01
Neptune being at 5° and Mercury being at 8°. And he's just known for lying a lot, basically. And that's something with Neptune, is that Neptune shows the part of our chart where

07:06:16 Speaker_01
there's things that are detached from reality or things where you can't tell the difference sometime between what's real and what's not. And sometimes that can be good for, for example, fantasy writers.

07:06:28 Speaker_01
If somebody is a fantasy writer and they have a prominent Neptune, then sometimes they'll be really good because they have a really good ability to use immersion in order to immerse a person in a fantasy world.

07:06:43 Speaker_01
But for whatever reason, Trump has this special ability. And what's interesting is that it's co-present with Jupiter, and his Jupiter is stationing to the day in his third house of communication in a day chart with a trine from Uranus.

07:07:00 Speaker_01
So one of the things that's crazy is he's actually very successful as a communicator, and he's come to rise to power in significant ways.

07:07:10 Speaker_01
this point in history and becoming president and other things like that because of his facility with communication to some extent. But part of that also has to do with this Jupiter-Neptune conjunction and blurring the truth.

07:07:25 Speaker_01
Sometimes he'll lean on the Jupiter part and exaggerate things, and other times he'll lean on the Neptune part and just make stuff up so that it's a very striking and characteristic thing for him with his third house.

07:07:40 Speaker_05
Right, right. And you had included a quote from Trump's former White House press secretary. He used to tell me, it doesn't matter what you say, Stephanie, say it enough and people will believe you.

07:07:51 Speaker_05
And that he like kind of learned that as a sort of life hack to people's psychology at some point.

07:07:58 Speaker_01
Yeah, I think that's really important because that's a direct quote to somebody that worked for him. I think she was actually his White House press secretary, so it's like she was his mouthpiece for a period of time while he was president.

07:08:09 Speaker_01
And I think that's a true quote because you can see that that's kind of what he does, is that at some point in his life, he just learned that if you say something with enough conviction so that it sounds like you're being genuine.

07:08:23 Speaker_01
And if you repeat it and if you say it enough times, even if people don't initially believe you or they think you're wrong or something like that, it will subtly start influencing people's reality. And like,

07:08:37 Speaker_01
sort of bending things to some extent subtly to your desired outcome. And it's like some sort of weird Jedi mind trick that he figured out at some point in his life that he uses really effectively.

07:08:50 Speaker_01
And what's interesting is that doesn't work for everybody. It's like people that don't have this placement, sometimes if they say something that's not true, they get called out for it and then their career falls apart and like,

07:09:04 Speaker_01
they have to start all over again or their life is over or what have you. But for some reason for him, he's sort of impervious to being pinned down when it comes to telling things that are untruths.

07:09:17 Speaker_05
Right. And you can see that sometimes with people like politicians who try to fashion themselves after him, but they don't have his chart. And so it's like, why isn't this working as well for me? And that's why.

07:09:28 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure. And I think just so much of it has to do with that Jupiter placement. And Venus is also ruling his third house of communication and his 10th house of career, and it's over there in his 12th house. One of them is enemies.

07:09:44 Speaker_01
And one of the ways that he rose to power early on as a politician was by oftentimes attacking other people.

07:09:51 Speaker_01
Initially, he attacked Obama with a birther controversy, and he claimed that Obama wasn't born in the United States and Hawaii when he was and when it was documented that he was.

07:10:03 Speaker_01
Or when he came into the 2016 primary election, one of his main things is he first differentiated himself by attacking his enemies and making up these funny names for different Republican candidates that he was attacking.

07:10:18 Speaker_01
So it was an interesting case there also with the ruler of the third house of communication and the 12th house of enemies and just going on the attack with enemies being part of a general strategy that has worked for him. Yeah.

07:10:34 Speaker_01
So the only other thing with that is I was watching an interview with him recently where he went on a podcast and I went to watch it because I thought it was interesting to see him in a long form

07:10:46 Speaker_01
comment and just what he was like talking, and if you could get any biographical details that would be interesting in terms of the astrology seeing him in that kind of format.

07:10:56 Speaker_01
So he went on a podcast with Theo Vaughan, who's a comedian, on August 20th of this year, of 2024. One of the stories that he told that was actually very interesting is he said that he never drank or smoked

07:11:07 Speaker_01
because of his older brother who played a really positive influence in his life and who told him not to all of the time because his brother struggled with that. His brother developed alcoholism, and it actually ended up killing him eventually.

07:11:24 Speaker_01
But what he said in this interview is that not only that he's never drank,

07:11:32 Speaker_01
that it didn't end up having an impact on him because he was so moved by what happened with his brother, but that his brother himself actively encouraged him not to drink to try to save him because he knew he was struggling with his own addiction issues.

07:11:45 Speaker_01
So I think this is really important and really interesting because then it means with Jupiter in the third house for Trump, The other part of that is his brother actually played a positive influence in his life.

07:11:57 Speaker_01
What's interesting is his brother was actually a pilot who flew planes, and that's part of the family drama and history.

07:12:08 Speaker_01
His brother was the older brother that was supposed to take over the family company, I think, but instead he rebelled and went off and became a pilot so he could fly around the world.

07:12:17 Speaker_01
Therefore, Donald became his father's favorite from that point forward, or became the heir.

07:12:26 Speaker_01
struggled with those drinking issues that eventually really undermined his life so that he died very early and very prematurely, or very young, I think in his 40s.

07:12:37 Speaker_01
And that also shows up in Trump's chart with that Jupiter-Neptune conjunction in the third house.

07:12:43 Speaker_05
with the stationary Neptune being potentially at least part of the addiction, showing up with the sibling, and then the ruler of the third being in the 12th being like a loss of a sibling, as well as the other aspects you were talking about.

07:13:00 Speaker_05
But then the Jupiter stationary there as well being like that this paradoxically played like a positive role in like his brother telling him not to go down the same route.

07:13:11 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure.

07:13:12 Speaker_01
So I just thought that was so interesting because it makes for a more interesting and complex character study than I think I'm sometimes used to thinking about with Trump in terms of some of the things in his background and how that may have influenced and shaped who he was.

07:13:28 Speaker_01
And there's probably many other things that feed into some of those different things that are background things that we don't know about or that maybe somebody that knows his biography better could draw out further.

07:13:38 Speaker_01
But those are just some interesting things that I noticed lately.

07:13:41 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm, for sure.

07:13:43 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right. Moving on, another one that's actually very similar to that, but I just want to share very briefly, is the comedian Andy Kaufman. So Andy Kaufman also had Leo Rising and Neptune in Libra in the third house.

07:14:04 Speaker_01
And what brought this example on is I found this amazing quote from Roger Ebert, who was reviewing the movie that Jim Carrey made in the late 90s that was on Andy Kaufman, where Jim Carrey played Andy Kaufman.

07:14:24 Speaker_01
This was the review, and this is what he wrote. He said, What is most wonderful about The Movie Man on the Moon, a very good film, is that it remains true to Kaufman's stubborn vision.

07:14:39 Speaker_01
Oh, it brightens things up a bit, but essentially it stays true to his persona, a guy who would test you, who would fool you, lie to you, deceive you, and stage elaborate deceptions, put-ons, and hoaxes.

07:14:54 Speaker_01
What he's talking about is that Andy Kaufman would do these comedy bits, but what he would do is he would set up these extreme situations that were fabricated, but then he would play it totally straight so that the audience thought he was serious.

07:15:11 Speaker_01
For example, one time he went on a talk show with David Letterman, and him and another wrestler were there.

07:15:19 Speaker_01
On the show, he starts insulting the wrestler and saying negative things to him, so that the wrestler, this huge lumbering guy, stands up and smacks Andy Kaufman and knocks him off of his feet onto the ground.

07:15:32 Speaker_01
Then Andy Kaufman yells obscenities to him and runs off, saying that he's going to sue him. and it was this major event that shocked people in the audience and shocked people on TV.

07:15:44 Speaker_01
But then it turned out in retrospect that it was completely fabricated, and they had both agreed on it and set it up ahead of time, and it was a funny joke on their part. Okay.

07:15:54 Speaker_01
Andy Kaufman's entire career was doing stuff like that, where he did stuff like that, but just played it totally straight.

07:16:03 Speaker_01
It's interesting that Ebert's picking up on that basically, and I think part of that is picking up on that Neptune placement in the third house and him using deception in some form in his comedy, but he's using it for comedic effect in his profession.

07:16:21 Speaker_05
Mm hmm. Yeah. And that's kind of like fiction writers who like, have similar placements, who just make up an imaginative reality. But this would be like making up an imaginative reality, like in person.

07:16:35 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. George R.R. Martin has Mercury in the same sign as Neptune.

07:16:43 Speaker_01
He didn't just write a story, but he wrote this entire 1,000-year backstory for this entire fantasy world of Game of Thrones, where he went through and made genealogies of every family

07:16:54 Speaker_01
that's ever existed in this entire fantasy world that doesn't exist.

07:16:57 Speaker_01
You can go out and buy entire books that tell the entire history and genealogy of this entire world, and now they're making entire spinoff shows of different family lineages of this fantasy world, all because he came up with this elaborate world.

07:17:16 Speaker_01
In the best-case scenario, sometimes the highest form of Neptune is creating these beautiful worlds that don't exist that people can escape to and get lost in.

07:17:27 Speaker_01
And sometimes that can be really powerful and moving and amazing, but it really depends on what the person uses that gift for and how they use it in life.

07:17:37 Speaker_04
Yeah, absolutely.

07:17:39 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right. Should I skip this example? Because I think that's a good point.

07:17:51 Speaker_04
Yeah, either or is fine.

07:17:53 Speaker_01
All right. Well, the last example is just like Harry Houdini. This time is a little iffy because this is supposedly this time was given to Alan Leo. So I don't know that that's pretty good source, but who knows if it's fully correct, but it's a 4 a.m.

07:18:09 Speaker_01
time. And if that's true, he had Aquarius rising and he had the Sun and Venus and Neptune in the third house of communication. And he was a famous illusionist where he would use illusions as part of his performances, basically his performance art.

07:18:25 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's good. It is similar but different.

07:18:30 Speaker_01
Yeah, so illusionist, escape artist, and stunt performer, also aviator that was noted for his escape acts. We are at the last planet.

07:18:42 Speaker_05
We are. We did not make any sections for Chiron or asteroids or anything, so this is the last.

07:18:47 Speaker_01
I mean, we could just keep going. If you're not ready to turn it in, we could keep going all day, my friend. There's a lot of asteroids out there. the lot of eros, the lot of lentils in the third house. That could be a whole episode.

07:19:06 Speaker_05
My favorite lot.

07:19:07 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right. So I found this Pluto example in the third house, but do you want to do this one?

07:19:17 Speaker_05
Yeah. I looked up more stuff about it.

07:19:20 Speaker_01
Right. You actually researched it beyond the initial thing I said. So this is Margaret Atwood's chart.

07:19:27 Speaker_05
Yeah. Margaret Atwood is a Canadian novelist, poet, and literary critic. She has Gemini Rising, Pluto and Leo in the third house, fairly conjunct the IC, about five-ish, six-ish degrees off.

07:19:46 Speaker_05
She and then the ruler of her third is the sun and Scorpio in the sixth house. And she's the author of a bunch of stuff but a couple of her more famous ones are the Handmaid's Tale, and Oryx and Crake, amongst others.

07:20:02 Speaker_05
And The Handmaid's Tale, in particular, is a dystopian novel where the sole function of the heroine is to breed. And so that brings in the sixth house servitude aspect, which is the ruler of the third.

07:20:14 Speaker_05
And I was just looking up how does Pluto play out in her work beyond the obvious with The Handmaid's Tale. So her work includes themes of authoritarianism, the dangers of unchecked power, which is very Plutonian, ecological disaster,

07:20:31 Speaker_05
the ways language can be used to manipulate or control as an instrument of oppression and language also as a vital resource for empowering the individual.

07:20:42 Speaker_05
So there was a little bit of the positive, mostly there was a lot of the, you know, sort of hard and dark Pluto things with a third of, you know, even Even in Handmaid's Tale, it was like obliterating even language, right?

07:20:57 Speaker_05
Like the oppression was such that they couldn't even use the language that they used to, and then part of their sort of personal attempts to fight back were like storytelling.

07:21:08 Speaker_05
So you could see a couple different ways that the Pluto was playing out in the third there.

07:21:14 Speaker_01
Yeah, totally. That's really intense and powerful.

07:21:18 Speaker_05
Yeah, so it was just lots of like Pluto stuff like devastation and dystopian things of various sorts.

07:21:24 Speaker_05
A lot of it's just like what happens when certain entities or people get too much power over others and kind of like worst-case scenarios around that.

07:21:35 Speaker_01
Themes of power and control and manipulation and stuff are very Plutonian themes.

07:21:41 Speaker_05
Yes. Yeah. And that's coming out in her writing since it's in the third. Yeah. So the other interesting thing I found, timing wise, Amazon apparently reported that The Handmaid's Tale was their top selling fiction book sold in the U.S.

07:21:58 Speaker_05
in 2017 in all but a few states. And this was both post the 2016 election, as well as because of the first episodes of the TV series adaptation of The Handmaid's Tale airing. that year.

07:22:13 Speaker_05
And I noticed that there were two eclipses in Leo in her third house during the year 2017. So activating that placement.

07:22:22 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's incredible. I remember that. The eclipse, one of those, the great American eclipse in the summer of 2017. Oh, yeah.

07:22:32 Speaker_05
Right. Yeah. We watched that. Yeah. So those eclipses just keep activating placements.

07:22:40 Speaker_01
CB Right. Yeah, that is a through line. I'm so glad I originally just got turned on to studying eclipses or started studying them a year ago.

07:22:51 Speaker_01
And it's been really fruitful once I realized how powerful they were to track those as triggers for important things in a person's life, for major beginnings and major endings.

07:23:03 Speaker_05
Right. And you know, while it's not the only thing, timing-wise certainly, that one should watch, you really could just watch the eclipses in your chart and get a lot of what's happening.

07:23:16 Speaker_01
Right. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, they're very powerful. All right, so next example, second to last example, this was sent in by Nick Diggan Best. And this is the birth chart of Thelonious Monk, who was an American jazz pianist and composer.

07:23:38 Speaker_01
And he had this really unique improvisational style and made numerous contributions to the standard jazz repertoire.

07:23:48 Speaker_01
So he had Gemini rising with Jupiter in the 1st house and the rising sign, and he had a stellium of planets in Leo in the 3rd, including Neptune, Saturn, Mars, the Lot of Fortune, and the Moon, all in the 3rd house and with an opposition to Uranus at 19 degrees of Aquarius in the 9th house.

07:24:13 Speaker_01
So the primary event for our purposes is Nixenta and this one incident that occurred where he was a few blocks from his own house, so just a few blocks from his home, and he was arrested while sitting in a car with friends.

07:24:33 Speaker_01
And what happened is that he was having a Pluto transit. It was transiting Sun and Pluto were conjoining his natal Moon and Leo in the third house, so it's a Pluto transit to his Moon especially.

07:24:46 Speaker_01
what happened is to protect his friend, who was a fellow pianist who was once beaten on the head by Philadelphia police, to protect Monk himself from a beating.

07:24:57 Speaker_01
In this incident, Monk claimed possession of drugs that were found that belonged to his friend, even though they were not his. So he basically took the fall and got arrested on this drug charge to cover for his friend.

07:25:13 Speaker_01
As a result of that, his New York City nightclub permit that allowed him to perform his music at nightclubs was revoked. This resulted in him being unable to perform live in his own area and in his own city.

07:25:30 Speaker_01
And this impacted his income and career very negatively, with really longstanding consequences as a result of this Pluto transit that was hitting his Moon at the time.

07:25:41 Speaker_01
And his Moon, of course, as we can see in the chart, is the ruler of the second house of finances and income.

07:25:50 Speaker_05
That's very good. I mean, not good, but you know, astrology good.

07:25:54 Speaker_01
Yeah. And it's in the third house, they were in a car, they were in his neighborhood, he was covering for a close friend, and then it impacted his ability to perform in his local city.

07:26:08 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's really incredible. And it's a night chart, and Mars is ruling the 11th house of friends and groups, conjunct Saturn, the third.

07:26:17 Speaker_01
Yeah, so that is a trickier Pluto transit and type of thing that can sometimes take place. All right, this brings us to our final example. Originally, the Thonius Monk example was going to be our last example.

07:26:34 Speaker_01
We didn't have anything else, but last night I was like, That's kind of a downer example to end with, and it's kind of hard to find a good positive one because we're ending with Pluto, and Pluto is kind of a tough planet.

07:26:48 Speaker_01
But I was looking around at other people that have Pluto in the third house, and I landed on this amazing example that made Lisa laugh immediately. So that is why it's our final example.

07:27:01 Speaker_01
All right, so this is the birth chart of the famous singer who was really one of the most famous singers, especially in the 1990s and early 2000s. This is the birth chart of Alanis Morissette.

07:27:15 Speaker_01
Alanis Morissette was born with Leo rising and Pluto in Libra in the third house. squaring pretty closely Mercury and Saturn, which are in early Cancer in the 12th house. And Saturn is actually the ruler of the 7th house of relationships.

07:27:33 Speaker_01
So it's like you get this interesting combination of like Pluto in the 3rd house of communication and it's squaring the planet that rules relationships basically.

07:27:44 Speaker_01
So I thought this was funny because I immediately thought of her first really hit single that made her a global and international sensation was the first single that was released from her album in 1995 from Jagged Little Pill, which was titled You Oughta Know.

07:28:04 Speaker_01
And this was the lead single that they released when her album came out, and it helped to catapult her to international fame.

07:28:10 Speaker_01
But what's funny about that song, and it's actually kind of different compared to most of her entire catalog or discography, is that this song is like this very powerful, cathartic kind of anthem

07:28:23 Speaker_01
that's about a breakup, but it's a very intense song that has very intense feelings of anger, betrayal, and heartbreak after a breakup, with Alanis directly addressing her former lover, who's run off with somebody else, basically.

07:28:43 Speaker_01
Does that sort of start to convey it?

07:28:46 Speaker_05
Yeah, it starts to. Part of the Pluto part is writing a song about betrayal, but also the bitingness, the biting tone. Because oftentimes with Pluto and the third, especially if people don't have a use for that, I guess.

07:29:05 Speaker_05
at least some of the time, accidentally come off as more biting than they mean to in casual conversation. But this was purposeful.

07:29:16 Speaker_01
Yeah, so the lyrics are incredibly blunt and confessional.

07:29:20 Speaker_01
They're filled with vivid imagery and explicit language, just sort of like painting this picture of a scorned woman seeking closure and expressing her lingering pain, which is a really good keyword for Pluto.

07:29:36 Speaker_01
So she has written in interviews that she wrote it from a place of deep emotional turmoil and vulnerability following a breakup. And what's funny is it was speculated for a long time about who is she writing this about?

07:29:50 Speaker_01
And one of the funniest things years later is that it's really widely believed that she wrote it about her relationship with the actor Dave Coulier,

07:29:59 Speaker_01
who later would become a famous actor on the TV show Full House, which was really funny because he was a very unassuming character on that television show that was a pretty clean television show.

07:30:13 Speaker_01
But ironically, there's this really intense song which became one of the most notorious middle finger to your ex lover who cheated on you song ever in the world, I think.

07:30:29 Speaker_05
Yeah, for sure. It's very iconic.

07:30:32 Speaker_01
Yeah. And in terms of the timing, what's amazing, of course, is that there were eclipses in Alanis Morissette's third house and 10th house in April, right before the album came out in June.

07:30:45 Speaker_01
And then You Ought to Know was released as the first single in July. So she was actually having eclipses in her third and 10th. And then She released that single and it became a smash hit.

07:30:56 Speaker_01
But then that was just the first of several singles from that album that just absolutely crushed it. That was one of the most famous and influential CDs of the 1990s.

07:31:07 Speaker_01
If you remember anything about the mid to late 1990s, Alanis Morissette was one of the top, top singers at the time. That single, as well as a number of others, were everywhere. Although it's funny, a lot of the other singles were much milder than

07:31:22 Speaker_01
than this first one.

07:31:24 Speaker_05
Right. But this one was like she became very known for.

07:31:27 Speaker_01
Yeah, totally.

07:31:30 Speaker_05
And I have nominated. Oh, go ahead.

07:31:33 Speaker_01
Right. Well, so we have the lyrics to the song to convey it, but I think everyone should just go and listen to the song now and look up the lyrics because we can't play it here. Otherwise, this video will get taken down for copyright purposes.

07:31:47 Speaker_01
We could flip a coin to see which of us will read the lyrics, but I think you're trying to nominate me.

07:31:52 Speaker_05
I was nominating you for having a more prominent Pluto between the two of us.

07:31:57 Speaker_01
Okay. It's like sung in a very passionate and like interesting and it's also like a catchy song.

07:32:03 Speaker_01
So I'm not going to be able to convey any of that, but I'm just going to read it like dryly because if you read the lyrics as it's written on paper, it sounds even more biting than it actually does in the song and the actual the way she sings it.

07:32:15 Speaker_05
Well, that's one of the reasons why it comes across as so very Plutonian, because it's almost like someone is with a smile on their face.

07:32:25 Speaker_05
Kind of like the way the song sounds, it's like someone with a smile on their face saying really Plutonian things.

07:32:32 Speaker_01
Well, it's kind of like, you know, Kendrick making this like catchy song, just just demolishing Drake this summer and making it like the song of the summer.

07:32:43 Speaker_01
If if Drake was like his former lover or something like that, that's almost like the dynamic of this song. All right. So she says it's like it's like she's written a letter to her ex lover and she says, I want you to know that I'm happy for you.

07:32:58 Speaker_01
I wish nothing but the best for you both. An older version of me? Is she perverted like me? Would she go down on you in the theater? Does she speak eloquently and would she have your baby? I'm sure she'd make a really excellent mother."

07:33:12 Speaker_01
It's just like dripping with sarcasm, which is such a great Pluto thing. She goes on, she says, because the love that you gave, that we made, wasn't able to make it enough for you to be open wide.

07:33:25 Speaker_01
No, and every time you speak her name, does she know how you told me you'd hold me until you died? Till you die? But you're still alive. And I'm here to remind you of the mess you left when you went away.

07:33:40 Speaker_01
It's not fair to deny me of the cross I bear that you gave to me. You ought to know. You seem very well. Things look peaceful. I'm not quite as well. I thought you should know. Did you forget about me, Mr. Duplicity?

07:33:54 Speaker_01
I hate to bug you in the middle of dinner. It was a slap in the face how quickly I was replaced. Are you thinking of me when you fuck her? Cause the love that you gave, that we made, wasn't able to make it enough for you to be wide open, no.

07:34:09 Speaker_01
And every time you speak her name, does she know how you told me you'd hold me, until you died, till you die, but you're still alive.

07:34:17 Speaker_01
And then she gets the chorus again, and then she says, "'Cause the joke that you laid in the bed that was me, and I'm not gonna fade as soon as you close your eyes, and you know it.

07:34:28 Speaker_01
And every time I scratch my nails down someone else's back, I hope you feel it. Well, can you feel it?" And then she goes on with the chorus, and then she repeats the chorus.

07:34:37 Speaker_01
And yeah, but it's all set to this very catchy tune that's like a rock song, and it's pretty amazing.

07:34:47 Speaker_05
Yeah, and it's really that juxtaposition that really makes it, because then it's even more biting somehow, because you would expect those lyrics to go with a different tone, and so it's even more sarcastic sounding.

07:34:59 Speaker_01
Right.

07:35:00 Speaker_05
Yeah.

07:35:00 Speaker_01
Yeah, it's incredible, and that is our number one all-time Lick Plutonian revenge song, basically.

07:35:09 Speaker_04
Yes, yes.

07:35:11 Speaker_01
Yeah. So this is why you don't piss off somebody with Pluto in the third house, especially if it's closely configured to Mercury, because they might write a song about you that becomes the most legendary song that immortalizes your breakup.

07:35:26 Speaker_05
Yeah. Can you imagine if you were that person?

07:35:29 Speaker_01
Yeah.

07:35:29 Speaker_05
And you just heard that song playing everywhere you go for a long time.

07:35:34 Speaker_01
Right. There's little kids that are singing the song and dancing to it. Yeah, and he's been asked about it. I think there's interviews with him where he's asked about it even years later, like, was that you, blah, blah, blah.

07:35:46 Speaker_01
I think he said in an interview once that I watched that they had talked and made up or something at one point and things are fine. So that's actually the other thing that's funny, is even if the two of you at some point

07:35:57 Speaker_01
make up and everything's okay interpersonally as much as it can be. The energy of that that was originally in the song from the initial breakup is still out there permanently with its own life. Yeah.

07:36:12 Speaker_01
So I don't know if I can convey that, but people can go listen to the song and that'll be a fitting outro song for the end of this episode.

07:36:20 Speaker_05
Yes. It's too bad that we can't actually make it the outro.

07:36:23 Speaker_01
The astrology software that we use on the Astrology Podcast is called Solar Fire for Windows, and you can get a 15% discount on the software by using the promo code AP15 when you purchase it through alabe.com.

07:36:38 Speaker_01
For Mac users, we recommend the program AstroGold for macOS, and you can also get a 15% discount when you use the promo code astropodcast15 at the website astrogold.io. All right, that is it for our extensive treatment of the 3rd house.

07:36:56 Speaker_01
If you've made it through to this point in the podcast episode, then you're now a master of the 3rd house.

07:37:03 Speaker_01
Hopefully, what you've learned at this point more than anything is not just the meaning of the 3rd house so that you've seen on a really tangible level what it signifies and what it means, but the other thing I really wanted to convey with this and that we wanted to convey is

07:37:19 Speaker_01
how to think and speak symbolically and archetypally, and how to combine the symbolism of different parts of the chart and to start to put things together to achieve chart synthesis.

07:37:32 Speaker_01
I think once you understand symbolism and you start putting it together, that's when you can start really being able to delineate birth charts effectively and to even make not just successful delineations, but also successful predictions as well.

07:37:49 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm.

07:37:50 Speaker_05
And I think this also showed the value of doing deep chart research because sometimes even if you know the general meanings or even lots of topical meanings of a certain area of the chart, which certainly we started out with, there are still new facets or things that we weren't absolutely sure about that then became more proven through looking at lots and lots of charts and seeing the different shades of how those played out.

07:38:18 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure.

07:38:19 Speaker_01
I think this is a very important and sometimes overlooked component of astrological research, which is not just looking to the symbolism and then trying to think about or imagine what that should mean, but also sometimes doing extensive empirical research and historical research to look at the lives of actual people and see how those placements manifested.

07:38:42 Speaker_01
But sometimes order to do that, you can't just look at one chart.

07:38:48 Speaker_01
You have to look at multiple charts with the same placement, and it's only then, when you start comparing people's lives, that you start to see the things that are similar that connect them due to the same placement.

07:39:00 Speaker_01
Then at that point, you start to truly understand what that placement means.

07:39:05 Speaker_05
Right. Like, for instance, in this particular episode, like mobility was just became really, really clear after a while, even though you could already say like, oh, cars go in the third house or something.

07:39:16 Speaker_05
But just like seeing all the different ways that mobility played out with third house placements or rulerships was really striking and then like kind of provided new insights into like, yeah, this isn't just transportation. It's like actual movement.

07:39:32 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly. Accessing the broader overarching archetype of what that is and what movement means and then how that can manifest in many different specific ways.

07:39:43 Speaker_01
But the closer you can get to the overarching archetype or the umbrella concept, the better you'll be at actually understanding it and then being able to delineate the specifics. I think that's really crucial.

07:40:00 Speaker_01
So yeah, in that empirical tradition and seeing it across many different charts, it said something else just now that jogged something in me, but I think I lost it.

07:40:11 Speaker_05
Just deep, deep chart research.

07:40:15 Speaker_01
deep chart research, building up a database. I think it's really important for people to build up a database of charts so that you can do this type of research, especially time charts.

07:40:26 Speaker_01
It also emphasizes, as a third house component, the importance of the community efforts to collect accurate birth times and to store them on databases like Astro Data Bank, but also even in smaller or personal databases like your own

07:40:43 Speaker_01
you know, solar fire charts on your local machine where you can build up a database of private charts as well.

07:40:49 Speaker_05
For sure, because that's the only way you can do this kind of research. And yeah, that was like something I was really thinking about in terms of like what was available and what was not in terms of birth times as we did this.

07:41:01 Speaker_01
Yeah, for sure.

07:41:02 Speaker_01
And it's like what's available to us in our generation is something that's only become available in the past generation of astrologers, like the ability to build a database and then search through for certain placements within that database.

07:41:14 Speaker_01
That's something we did with solar fire a lot that was super useful.

07:41:18 Speaker_05
Which is amazing just to have that ability to do, right?

07:41:21 Speaker_01
Yeah, it just didn't exist literally for thousands of years prior to this time. Going back 3,000 years, 4,000 years at the start of our tradition, they were literally noticing an eclipse and then noticed that the king died.

07:41:37 Speaker_01
and then they would write that down and pass it along on little clay cuneiform tablets, and they built up large libraries of those. But that's one thing compared to what we're able to do today.

07:41:50 Speaker_01
So I think an important thing of what we're doing here is we're showing how to leverage technology in order to advance our understanding of astrology. And that's one of the things that's exciting a little bit to me with the emergence of

07:42:02 Speaker_01
artificial intelligence and other technologies. I'm sure there's going to be new innovations in the future that can help to push the boundaries of astrological research even further.

07:42:10 Speaker_05
LS

07:42:19 Speaker_01
If people find other compelling examples of third-house placements, then please let us know by posting a comment, especially below this video on YouTube.

07:42:28 Speaker_01
If you found an interesting example of a third-house placement or a third-house transit, we'd love to hear from you, but please post it in the YouTube comments. Don't email us because we get too many emails when we're

07:42:41 Speaker_01
not soliciting ones, but by posting comments, then it becomes something that's helpful that other people can refer to in the comments below this video.

07:42:51 Speaker_01
And then it becomes part of the community effort to keep researching and seeing different ways that these planets can manifest so that we can understand the full spectrum of different positive and negative placements.

07:43:03 Speaker_01
Actually, that was what I was going to mention. The concept of movement is one of the things that emerged, but what we saw is that it's both movement as well as sometimes the absence of movement.

07:43:15 Speaker_01
And being able to identify that that's a spectrum that exists, even in and of itself, is something you may not initially think about if you just read The Third House Signifies Cars. And you realize that in terms of the lived human experience,

07:43:29 Speaker_01
the third house can actually be about and the concept of movement can be much deeper and more profound and more moving or impactful than it might seem at first.

07:43:40 Speaker_05
Yeah. And even the bodily movement, I wouldn't have thought about that before doing this.

07:43:45 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, it really starts to get into some of the subtleties and nuances with astrology that you don't realize until you start really looking into people's lives as well, that sometimes those subtleties and nuances are easy to overlook, but they can be really important.

07:44:02 Speaker_05
LS And sometimes it takes looking at a lot of charts to come to those realizations.

07:44:07 Speaker_01
Yeah, exactly.

07:44:08 Speaker_01
To start seeing the parallels because it's only after you've seen it a few different times that you catch on and realize that you're seeing something that's not an isolated incident, but it's part of something that's manifesting as a result of the archetype that's behind the scenes.

07:44:25 Speaker_01
Yeah. All right, so I wanted to say thanks again to all the people that helped us with our research, especially all the patrons and the different people that sent in charts on social media when I was soliciting chart examples.

07:44:39 Speaker_01
But especially thanks to the people that helped out with chart research, including Nick Dagan Best, Orla on Twitter at OCAstrology,

07:44:49 Speaker_01
Melissa Marklin and Lindsay Turner all contributed specific chart examples that we actually used in this episode, and that was super helpful.

07:44:57 Speaker_05
MS. Yes. Thank you to all of you. CB.

07:45:00 Speaker_01
Yeah.

07:45:01 Speaker_01
Other things, I'm going to release the written notes from our document, which is like we have at least 80 pages of notes that we wrote up for the outline, and I always release that as a bonus to patrons of The Astrology Podcast who sign up through my page on Patreon at patreon.com slash astrologypodcast.

07:45:18 Speaker_01
That's going to contain a lot of additional info and even some examples that didn't make it into this episode, or some details that we didn't get into in individual ones for the sake of time restraints. I may sell a PDF of the show notes

07:45:37 Speaker_01
I'll have to see how that goes, but whatever I end up doing, I'll put a link to it, whatever is available, whether it's something you can access through Patreon or whether it's something you can actually buy as a separate PDF.

07:45:48 Speaker_01
I'll put a link to it in the description below this video on YouTube or as a link on the podcast website for the entry for this episode. I'm also thinking about releasing a file that contains the chart data of all the charts in Solar Fire.

07:46:05 Speaker_01
So if I do that, it'll be attached to the same PDF report, essentially.

07:46:11 Speaker_01
All right, special thanks and shout out to all the patrons who supported this work because this is pretty much what made it possible to take all this time to do the research that was necessary.

07:46:21 Speaker_01
We have an awesome group of fans of the show who sign up to donate money each month to support our work and our research and our efforts, which allows us to do episodes like this one where we just put this content out into the world for free.

07:46:36 Speaker_01
So patrons get early access to new episodes. They also get access to the show notes and other behind-the-scenes content.

07:46:44 Speaker_01
So if you'd like to both support this research as well as get early access to new episodes as well as bonus content in this series, then you can sign up to become a patron through our page on patreon.com.

07:46:57 Speaker_01
One of the things that I'm doing to complement some of these episodes is live chart readings with patrons, where we sit down and I read some patrons' charts and they share stories of their placements.

07:47:11 Speaker_01
The one that we did recently was a live chart reading session with patrons about their 2nd house and 3rd house placements. It was actually a really deep and profound and moving chart reading session where we got to some really interesting stuff.

07:47:24 Speaker_01
using the charts of normal people who are not celebrities, which allows us to access another layer of things that's even deeper than what we were able to get to here in this episode where we focused on celebrity charts.

07:47:38 Speaker_01
So people can check those episodes out, and I'll be doing more of those on other houses as I progress through this series, but it's something that only patrons will get access to in terms of being able to actually attend those and share their charts live with me.

07:47:55 Speaker_01
All right, other than that, there's a bunch of chart examples that we cut from this episode. I may do a follow-up episode for the Secret Astrology Podcast, which is a podcast series that's only available to patrons.

07:48:07 Speaker_01
So if you'd like to get access to that, you can sign up there, and I'll probably release that at some point before too long, once I've taken a little bit of a nap, a little bit of a break, before recording another little recording on the third house.

07:48:19 Speaker_05
LS You would not think that we had cut charts from this, but we did.

07:48:24 Speaker_01
CB But you would not think that. But there were a lot of charts that were left on the editing, the cutting room floor, so to speak. So we'll have to see what I end up repurposing those for in another recording. All right, last things.

07:48:41 Speaker_01
If you want to learn more about all of this, I have lectures in my course on Hellenistic astrology where I go into the houses, the rulers of the houses, the ruler of the Ascendant, the ways of determining planetary condition and determining if a planet's well-placed or poorly placed in a chart, which is very crucial for this work.

07:49:00 Speaker_01
as well as timing techniques in order to know not just what a chart indicates with certain placements, but when that will be activated is something I go into a lot in the Hellenistic astrology course.

07:49:10 Speaker_01
So you can find out more information about that at theastrologyschool.com.

07:49:15 Speaker_01
And also, again, shout out to Demetra's book as a great resource for learning about the significations of the houses and comparing them not just in the ancient tradition but also in the medieval and modern ones.

07:49:26 Speaker_01
So the title of that book is Ancient Astrology and Theory in Practice, Volume 2, and I would definitely recommend checking it out. All right, what about you? What do you have going on? What do you have coming up?

07:49:38 Speaker_01
Where can people find out more information about your work?

07:49:41 Speaker_05
Well, one of the ways you can find me is through the electional astrology podcast, which we both do together every month for patrons. I don't know how you say it now that it's like a monthly thing, but at one of the tiers and above.

07:49:57 Speaker_05
So we go through all of the best elections of the month, the best dates and times to start new ventures or take important actions for boosting the odds of successful outcomes. So that's one of the ways you can find me. My website is part of it.

07:50:14 Speaker_05
My website, at least, is back up. Hallelujah. It's been down for a while. And you can find me at lisashyme.com. Shout out to Melissa Marklin, who is working on my website. I am sincerely grateful. She's been doing some great work on that.

07:50:29 Speaker_05
There should be some more pages coming up as well, if you look at it now. So check back later.

07:50:35 Speaker_01
Yeah. And pretty soon you'll have some of your lectures for sale where you go through and teach different timing techniques and other things like that and show different example charts.

07:50:44 Speaker_05
Yes. If you look right now, it's not quite back up. That'll be the last thing that we rebuild, but I will have a store of lots of past lectures and workshops that I've done.

07:50:52 Speaker_01
Yeah. I'm just thinking of somebody listening to this lecture a year from now.

07:50:57 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's why I'm trying to distinguish right this very moment if you look. It's not back up, but in the future it will be. So I have lectures on timing techniques, lectures on relationship timing, lots of timing things really. Yeah. CB.

07:51:11 Speaker_01
Nice. All right. People should check out your website, lisaschimeastrologer.com. I'll put a link. LS.

07:51:16 Speaker_04
lisaschime.com. CB.

07:51:17 Speaker_01
Oh, just Schime, no Astrologer? Because it's Patrick who lost his main domain and has to put Astrologer on it.

07:51:24 Speaker_04
LS. Yeah.

07:51:25 Speaker_01
Yeah, that's bad times. All right. Well, I'll put a link to your website in the description below this video on YouTube or on the podcast website in the entry for this episode.

07:51:34 Speaker_01
Thank you so much for doing this with me, especially the research portion of this, which even though this is the theoretically toughest part, just doing the recording over the course of today, now that we're wrapping it up in the middle of the night.

07:51:49 Speaker_01
But doing the research part of this with you was incredibly fun and enlivening and enriching and just interesting over the past few weeks, and I'm so glad that we got to do it together.

07:52:00 Speaker_01
So thanks for taking so much time to collaborate with me, to create, and to bring this work to completion like this. I really appreciate it, and it's been Yeah. An honor to do this with you.

07:52:14 Speaker_05
Quite welcome. Thank you. That's you. Yeah. It was really fun and you kind of don't see a lot of the behind the scenes of what leads up to this if you're just listening to the episode, but not at all.

07:52:24 Speaker_05
But yeah, it was a lot of research process and a lot of talking through like, what do you think of this example and how this is playing out and where should we put it and what section does it go best in and all of these things.

07:52:37 Speaker_01
a lot of excitedly calling each other at midnight to excitedly talk about a new example that we found and how amazing it is and how an eclipse falls in the third house and isn't that incredible as an astrologer, as well as a lot of intense discussions about trying to take out stuff and trying to remove some examples and winnow it down until we got to the final form that we ended up recording today.

07:53:05 Speaker_05
Yes, some intense discussions of editing.

07:53:08 Speaker_01
CB Yeah, it was a process. There were some victories and some not victories in terms of the editorial process, but it's an ongoing thing. We'll keep working on it, but this was fun. So thanks a lot for doing this with me.

07:53:24 Speaker_01
Thanks to everyone for listening who made it through to the end of this lecture. We appreciate you. We hope you learned something. Thanks for your support. And I think that's it. Yeah.

07:53:34 Speaker_05
Yeah, I think so. I think we made it to the end.

07:53:37 Speaker_01
All right, cool. Well, have a good night. Thanks, everyone, for watching or listening to this episode of The Astrology Podcast, and we'll see you again next time.

07:53:45 Speaker_01
you're a fan of the podcast and you'd like to support the production of future episodes, then consider becoming a patron through my page on patreon.com.

07:53:53 Speaker_01
In exchange, you'll get access to a bunch of benefits such as early access to new episodes, the ability to attend live recordings, access to the monthly electional astrology podcast, access to another exclusive podcast called the Secret Astrology Podcast that's only available to patrons, or even get your name listed in the credits at the end of each episode.

07:54:13 Speaker_01
For more information, visit patreon.com slash astrology podcast.

07:54:18 Speaker_01
Special thanks to patrons on our producer's tier, including Christy Moe, Ariana Amour, Mandy Ray, Angelique Nambo, Issa Sabah, Jeannie Marie Kaplan, Melissa Delano, Sonny Bozboz, Kwatsi Alibarrahu, and Annie Newman.

07:54:34 Speaker_01
If you're looking for an astrological consultation, then we have a new list of recommended astrologers on the podcast website. These astrologers offer birth chart readings, synastry, rectification, electional astrology, horary questions, and more.

07:54:49 Speaker_01
Go to theastrologypodcast.com slash consultations.

07:54:53 Speaker_01
The astrology software that we use on the Astrology Podcast is called Solar Fire for Windows, and you can get a 15% discount on the software by using the promo code AP15 when you purchase it through alabe.com.

07:55:08 Speaker_01
For Mac users, we recommend the program AstroGold for macOS, and you can also get a 15% discount when you use the promo code astropodcast15 at the website astrogold.io.

07:55:22 Speaker_01
If you'd like to learn more about my approach to astrology, then you should get a copy of my book titled Hellenistic Astrology, the Study of Fate and Fortune, which is available in both print and now ebook forms, where I've started selling a PDF copy of the book through my website at hellenisticastrology.com book.

07:55:40 Speaker_01
If you're really looking to deepen your studies of astrology, then check out my Hellenistic Astrology course, which is an online course in ancient astrology.

07:55:48 Speaker_01
It's perfect for beginner and intermediate students because I take people from basic concepts up through intermediate and advanced techniques for reading birth charts.

07:55:57 Speaker_01
There's over 100 hours of video lectures, including monthly webinars and Q&A sessions. And at the end of the course, if you complete the final test, you'll receive a certificate of completion saying that you studied with me.

07:56:09 Speaker_01
You can find out more information at theastrologyschool.com.