The Susan Powell Case Files | Mystery Metal | Bonus Episode 10 AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast Cold

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Episode: The Susan Powell Case Files | Mystery Metal | Bonus Episode 10

Author: KSL Podcasts | Wondery
Duration: 00:27:37

Episode Shownotes

Police in West Valley City, Utah found a charred clump of metal hidden in the back of Josh Powell’s minivan on the day after Susan Powell first came up missing. They suspected it was evidence, but could never identify it. Now, on the 15th anniversary of Susan’s disappearance, we reveal

the likely origin of that mystery metal evidence. In this special bonus episode, you’ll also hear from Andrew Robinson, a witness who’s never before spoken publicly about what he saw in the days before Susan vanished. For years, investigative reporter Dave Cawley has been studying thousands of police documents, journals, videos and diary entries. He tracked down new sources, followed new leads and traced Josh Powell's trail from West Valley City, Utah, through Idaho, Oregon, Nevada and on to Washington State, where Powell killed himself and his two sons. Cold is the most complete retelling of the Susan Powell story ever. Join Dave Cawley in his search for truth. Listen to Cold on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/cold/ now. Share your thoughts: Instagram Facebook Reddit Bluesky

Summary

In this bonus episode titled "Mystery Metal," investigative journalist Dave Cawley explores a significant piece of evidence from the Susan Powell case: a charred metal object found in Josh Powell's minivan shortly after Susan's disappearance in 2009. The episode discusses the forensic testing by the FBI, witness Andrew Robinson's insights into Josh's suspicious behavior, and the implications of Josh's purchase of welding equipment. The analysis of melted metal suggests a possible connection to a power tool that may link Josh to Susan's fate, emphasizing the signs of domestic abuse amid the ongoing investigation.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (The Susan Powell Case Files | Mystery Metal | Bonus Episode 10) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_04
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00:00:15 Speaker_07
This podcast includes discussion of domestic abuse and other forms of violence. While not explicit, it's probably a good idea to use discretion when listening.

00:00:24 Speaker_07
If you or someone you know is experiencing abuse at the hands of a loved one, help is available. In the United States, you can visit thehotline.org to be connected with free resources in your area.

00:00:38 Speaker_07
As a kid, growing up on the outskirts of Spokane, Washington, Josh Powell dreamed of becoming a self-made millionaire. But achieving that goal proved more difficult than young Josh expected.

00:00:50 Speaker_09
At the moment, I've only got $1,000 in savings.

00:00:54 Speaker_07
His first attempt to make it big was a woodworking business he started in high school. He bragged to his friends about spending thousands of dollars on tools. He didn't have clients enough to justify the expense, but that hardly mattered.

00:01:07 Speaker_09
If I spend 400 bucks on tools, it makes me frustrated in my own budgeting. And I feel like, what the heck, I might as well spend another 400 bucks on something else that I want.

00:01:20 Speaker_07
Josh never made his million dollars, but he did take out a million-dollar life insurance policy on his wife, Susan Cox Powell. Then, on December 6th, 2009, Susan vanished. That was 15 years ago, and she has still not been found.

00:01:42 Speaker_07
There's a single piece of evidence in Susan's case that's confounded me for years. It's a hunk of twisted metal police found in the back of Josh's minivan the day after Susan turned up missing.

00:01:56 Speaker_07
The lead detective on the case, Ellis Maxwell, told me the metal object ended up with the FBI. It was forensically tested and nobody could identify what that object was. But now I'm pretty sure I can.

00:02:11 Speaker_07
This is a special bonus episode of Cold Season 1, Mystery Metal. From KSL Podcasts, I'm Dave Cauley. If it's been a while since you listened to Susan Powell's story, the details of the case might be a bit fuzzy in your memory. That's okay.

00:02:30 Speaker_07
We're going to revisit some of the events that preceded Susan's disappearance, as well as what happened in the first couple days of the investigation. And I think where I'd like to begin is on the afternoon of Wednesday, November 25th, 2009.

00:02:44 Speaker_07
It was the day before Thanksgiving, and a guy named Andrew Robinson was at work at a business called Airgas.

00:02:50 Speaker_05
Airgas is a company that manufactures and produces gases, oxygen, nitrogen, acetylene.

00:02:58 Speaker_07
I mentioned Josh's trip to Airgas in Episode 3. That account was drawn from police case files. I hadn't talked to Andrew about it myself when that episode first came out six years ago.

00:03:08 Speaker_07
In fact, Andrew's never before spoken publicly about his experience meeting Josh on that day, just a week and a half before Susan disappeared.

00:03:16 Speaker_05
I do recall that day Josh came in and his demeanor.

00:03:20 Speaker_07
Andrew's Australian, if you couldn't tell. He was living in Utah at the time, but moved back to Sydney a short time later. And I guess I lost touch with the story. Andrew discovered this podcast about a year ago and listened to Susan's story.

00:03:35 Speaker_05
Listened to that with fascination. Learned a lot more about how the story had progressed.

00:03:42 Speaker_07
He reached out to me because he had some unanswered questions. I sent him copies of the case files where he's mentioned, and Andrew said some of the detail in those police reports was wrong.

00:03:53 Speaker_07
Our conversation got me thinking again about that melted hunk of mystery metal. Andrew's story is key in understanding where it came from and what it might be. So I asked him to take us back to the start and share the story from his perspective.

00:04:08 Speaker_07
What was your interaction with Josh when he came in?

00:04:12 Speaker_05
just a regular business day. It was extremely quiet. Around about 3.45, a gentleman came into the store.

00:04:23 Speaker_05
I approached and asked if I can give some assistance, what it was in particular that he was looking for, and he spoke back saying that he was just having a look around

00:04:35 Speaker_05
After 10 or 15 minutes, he hadn't approached the counter, still looking around the aisles. I approached him again and he said that he was interested in welding equipment, what we had in the way of that.

00:04:52 Speaker_05
I asked what it was in particular that he was wanting to weld and he said that he was interested in making jewelry. So I guided him to the product that would be most suitable. A kit that we had for soldering and light welding.

00:05:11 Speaker_05
And was that the kit that he ended up, purchasing or did he want something else? Josh ended up purchasing a, a cutting kit, which is a little bit more involved. It does allow you to do light welding.

00:05:27 Speaker_05
It also allows you to cut material with, of C-acetylene.

00:05:32 Speaker_07
To you, I guess in retrospect, does that choice to upgrade seem at all strange given what he said he wanted to do with it?

00:05:38 Speaker_05
Yeah, that struck me as being odd. It was a little bit of overkill for some cutting equipment to be involved in the making of jewellery.

00:05:51 Speaker_07
Hmm. From what I understood, uh, talking to you before and reading through the reports, he hung around a while.

00:05:58 Speaker_05
That's correct. He entered the store 3.30, 3.45. It wasn't till, uh, after 5.00 PM when we would be regularly closing that he left with the kit in hand and also some cylinders as well to allow him to use that equipment.

00:06:19 Speaker_07
When you say cylinders, I mean fuel. We're talking about the oxygen and the acetylene gas that he needs to run the torch. Is that right?

00:06:26 Speaker_05
That's correct. It was a small bottle of acetylene and oxygen to go with it. But these cylinders weren't actually correct in being able to hook up to the torch.

00:06:41 Speaker_05
The cylinders that were provided to him were more in line with what you would use for making jewelry.

00:06:48 Speaker_07
So let me restate that and just make sure I understand correctly.

00:06:52 Speaker_07
When he's in there on that Wednesday before Thanksgiving and he says he wants to do jewelry stuff, you and the other employee, you're trying to accommodate what he tells you he's wanting to do. So it's maybe a smaller tank with a different fitting.

00:07:08 Speaker_07
He upgrades to this bigger setup that can do steel cutting, but he still has these other tanks. And at some point after he leaves the store, he must have realized that something isn't what he wants for this larger setup that he ended up buying.

00:07:25 Speaker_07
Am I understanding that correctly?

00:07:27 Speaker_05
That's correct. Yes. Josh did return the next week after the holiday weekend, uh, to exchange those cylinders to ones more suitable.

00:07:37 Speaker_07
Okay. So he's back in the store and, and what ends up happening from there?

00:07:41 Speaker_05
He came back in, I didn't deal directly with Josh at the time, but reading the body language, I could see he was a little bit, uh, irritated. People were scurrying around, uh, trying to satisfy his requirements.

00:07:59 Speaker_07
Do you recall, I guess at that point, was there anything that in your memory you thought, huh, that, that was weird?

00:08:06 Speaker_05
Not at the time, no. No, I just thought that everybody is an individual, has their own mannerisms. I was not thinking of anything particularly sinister.

00:08:20 Speaker_07
A day or so later, Josh created a new text file on his work laptop and titled it Welding Instructions. He ran a Google search for the exact phrase BTU per cubic foot versus heat, acetylene versus propane. BTU is an acronym for British Thermal Unit.

00:08:40 Speaker_07
It's a measure of heat. Josh's browser history showed he visited two websites with information about acetylene gas.

00:08:47 Speaker_05
I did get that impression from Josh that he didn't have a great deal of knowledge regarding the use of the equipment.

00:08:56 Speaker_07
On Friday, December 4th, Josh moved the welding instructions document to an encrypted portion of his hard drive. That encryption was never broken or bypassed, so I can't tell you what the welding instructions file contained.

00:09:11 Speaker_07
All I can say is that by the following Monday, Susan was gone. On the morning of Monday, December 7th, 2009, Josh and Susan both failed to show up for work. Their sons, four-year-old Charlie and two-year-old Brayden, didn't arrive at daycare.

00:09:33 Speaker_07
Police in West Valley City, Utah, forced entry at Josh and Susan's house on a cul-de-sac called Sarah Circle. Detective Ellis Maxwell swept the house, noticing Susan's wallet and keys in the master bedroom. But the family and their minivan were gone.

00:09:50 Speaker_07
Josh reappeared with the boys in the minivan later that afternoon. Susan wasn't with him. Ellis confronted Josh on the driveway outside of the house. He told Josh they needed to go to a nearby police substation to talk.

00:10:05 Speaker_02
Has she ever tried to leave or ever wanted to get out of this relationship at all with you?

00:10:12 Speaker_09
No. I mean, it's come up.

00:10:16 Speaker_07
Josh said he had taken his sons out on an impromptu camping trip the night before in the middle of a snowstorm. He said Susan stayed home.

00:10:24 Speaker_02
Do you think she's in danger right now? Do you think she's hurt?

00:10:33 Speaker_07
Ellis suspected Josh had done something to Susan, but he didn't have a body or a confession. So at the end of the interview, he escorted Josh back to the Sarah Circle house. Josh reversed the minivan into the cluttered garage. Then Ellis left.

00:10:49 Speaker_07
Josh had the house to himself. Exactly what he did in the hours that followed remains unclear. Neighbors told us he had the van backed up to the garage. Those neighbors lived a few doors down on the corner.

00:11:02 Speaker_07
They described seeing Josh pull the minivan partway out of the garage at about 11 p.m. on Monday night, but they couldn't tell what he was doing. I suspect he was making space to set up the oxyacetylene torch, and I think he intended to use it

00:11:18 Speaker_07
to destroy any physical evidence linking him to Susan's death. Detective Ellis Maxwell interviewed Josh a second time on the afternoon of Tuesday, December 8th, the day after Susan was reported missing.

00:11:32 Speaker_02
Okay, I have a lot of questions still. All right, we need to find your wife. I already told you everything.

00:11:39 Speaker_07
Rather than rehash this whole interview, let's jump to the climax when Ellis told Josh detectives were headed to the Sarah Circle house with a search warrant.

00:11:47 Speaker_02
We have your house. You're not going to be able to go back to your house. OK? What do you mean? Your house is ours for right now. We're not going to let you back into that house. OK. Your car is ours. We're not going to let you have your car.

00:12:02 Speaker_07
The first thing detectives did upon returning to Josh and Susan's house was photograph everything. Those pictures are really important.

00:12:10 Speaker_07
What makes them valuable is that Ellis had also photographed the house on Monday, before Josh was able to disturb anything. So by comparing the two sets of pictures, we can see what changed.

00:12:22 Speaker_07
Ellis' pictures from Monday show the oxyacetylene torch sitting on a cart in the garage. This tells us Josh didn't take it with him on his camping trip.

00:12:31 Speaker_07
If I zoom in real close, I can see the tip of the torch, where the flame comes out, looks clean and shiny. But on Tuesday, that tip is covered in black soot. That's proof Josh used the torch on that Monday night.

00:12:47 Speaker_07
Meanwhile, you might remember Ellis' search of the minivan on Tuesday turned up a melted metal object, some charred wire scraps, and a few sheets of badly burned sheetrock, all contained in a plastic garbage bag hidden in a floorboard compartment.

00:13:04 Speaker_07
This was, presumably, the remnant of whatever it was Josh burned. Let's go back to my conversation with Andrew, the guy from the air gas store where Josh bought the torch. He happened to see Josh's face on the TV news a couple days later.

00:13:18 Speaker_05
Yeah, that was the next time that I saw Josh was on the news the following week being interviewed about his wife that's gone missing. And I thought to myself, was that the guy that came into the store?

00:13:32 Speaker_05
I went into my work the following day and I just wanted to verify that. So I mentioned to my coworker and we pulled it up online and he said, yeah, yeah, that looks like him.

00:13:45 Speaker_05
And, uh, the way that he interacted with the journalist was very similar to how he interacted with myself, very. Uh, wouldn't say as much as evasive, but just very almost vague.

00:14:03 Speaker_07
So once you confirmed that, hey, that's the same person who was in here, was there a question of what do I do?

00:14:11 Speaker_05
Uh, well, I just felt that it was something that needed to be, uh, brought to the attention of law enforcement.

00:14:18 Speaker_07
So as I understand, you end up being the person to make the phone call to the West Valley City Police Department. Is that right?

00:14:24 Speaker_05
That's correct. Yes. The, uh, officer took my details and, uh, two officers came. They just wanted to know the interaction, uh, whether we could provide evidence of the purchase in the way of a receipt and CCTV footage. And we had that arranged.

00:14:46 Speaker_07
A police report about this interview says, quote, Andrew said that he heard Joshua state on news interviews that he had been cutting open mine shafts on the Pony Express Trail. Andrew told me that's not accurate.

00:15:00 Speaker_07
He never heard Josh say that, because Josh didn't say it. It is what Andrew suspected Josh might have wanted a steel cutting torch for at the time, and that's what he said to the detectives.

00:15:12 Speaker_05
A thought that did come to my mind was what was his actual intent on the equipment that he purchased. The upgrade in cylinder size would not be something that he would purchase for a little home jewelry making.

00:15:35 Speaker_07
A little earlier, I mentioned the police photos of Josh and Susan's house, taken on Monday and Tuesday. They showed where the oxyacetylene torch was in the garage. But there's another important difference between the two sets of images.

00:15:48 Speaker_07
On Monday, there's an orange and black tool bag sitting on top of a chest freezer next to the door leading from the garage into the house. But on Tuesday, that tool bag's moved to a spot on the concrete floor next to the torch.

00:16:02 Speaker_07
I think it's likely the metal object Josh melted was in that bag. So let's talk about where that bag came from and what it likely contained. During their second interview, Ellis asked Josh about his financial situation.

00:16:16 Speaker_02
Give me a list of your checking accounts, credit cards that you guys have.

00:16:23 Speaker_08
Well, she has, seems like she has a couple of accounts at Wells Fargo. Oh, and Home Depot. Yeah, she's got a Home Depot card.

00:16:36 Speaker_07
Susan's Home Depot card was really Josh's Home Depot card. He'd gone through bankruptcy in 2007, but rather than stop buying tools, he opened that credit card in Susan's name and went on a Black Friday spending spree.

00:16:51 Speaker_07
One of the items he bought was a RIDGID brand 18-volt cordless tool kit, and it came in a black and orange bag.

00:16:58 Speaker_07
That tool bag appears in a video Susan made a year and a half before she disappeared, documenting the family's assets, along with a bunch of other rigid tools.

00:17:07 Speaker_03
A rigid drill, some type of rigid sander, and a rigid saw.

00:17:11 Speaker_07
I found an old rigid catalog from that same time. It shows this 18-volt kit came in two variants. Both included a hammer drill, reciprocating saw, circular saw, flashlight, and battery charger.

00:17:25 Speaker_07
The difference between the two was one kit included an impact driver. That's like a smaller version of a drill, good for turning screws or bolts. Josh bought one of these two kits, but it's not clear which.

00:17:38 Speaker_01
All expensive stuff that we bought. A lot of it got bankrupted. A lot of it got added afterwards.

00:17:46 Speaker_07
I can account for every one of those tools in police photos from after Susan's disappearance. The only one I can't find is an impact driver. So it's possible the melted metal object could have been a rigid impact driver.

00:18:01 Speaker_07
In the bonus episode Project Sunlight, I described discovering a file among Josh's computer records from 2009. It was a transfer log, showing the names of documents Josh kept on an encrypted hard drive.

00:18:13 Speaker_07
There's an entire folder labeled Rigid Tools, with entries for warranty documents, a spreadsheet with the serial numbers, even photos. Unfortunately, I don't have the documents and photos themselves, because again, they are encrypted.

00:18:27 Speaker_07
But what's curious is when West Valley City Police later seized Josh's computers a second time in 2011, they held a copy of this same Rigid Tools folder. The spreadsheet and photos aren't in it. It appears Josh deleted them.

00:18:43 Speaker_07
For what purpose, we can only assume. West Valley City Police turned the melted metal object over to the FBI in 2010. The Bureau performed a metallurgical analysis.

00:18:59 Speaker_07
It showed the mystery metal was mostly steel, with lesser amounts of calcium and strontium. That last element, strontium, is a component in small electric motors, like the kind used in power drills and impact drivers.

00:19:14 Speaker_07
And remember, Ellis also found three short wire segments in the trash bag along with the mystery metal. Those wires were the right gauge and length to connect a battery to a small electric motor, like inside an impact driver.

00:19:30 Speaker_07
All this is to say, a lot of circumstantial evidence points to the mystery metal being the remains of a power tool. But I needed to test this theory.

00:19:40 Speaker_07
So I bought an old rigid impact driver secondhand and enlisted the help of a friend with an oxyacetylene torch to melt it. The orange plastic shell turned into a bubbling pool of black goo.

00:19:53 Speaker_06
I mean that rear casing is pretty well gone. I can see the See the housing on the front? Look how sooty you are though. Yeah.

00:20:06 Speaker_07
It put off a thick smoke that coated the tip of the torch in soot.

00:20:10 Speaker_05
Plastic would cause that blackening. Blackening can also occur from too much fuel in the flame, too much acetylene.

00:20:20 Speaker_07
As the silvery steel of the motor heated up, it glowed white. The metal softened. Some of it liquefied.

00:20:31 Speaker_06
Yeah.

00:20:41 Speaker_07
The motor broke into pieces. It took more than an hour and quite a lot of fuel to reduce the whole thing to an unrecognizable chunk of slag. We doused it with water, then compared the result to police photographs of Josh's melted metal object.

00:20:57 Speaker_07
It looks almost identical to my eyes. You can see the pictures yourself on our website, thecoldpodcast.com. Andrew, the Aussie from the air gas store, also watched a video recording of the experiment.

00:21:11 Speaker_07
I asked his opinion about it, since he has much more experience with oxyacetylene than I do.

00:21:16 Speaker_05
I've been involved in the automotive industry, so oxygen acetylene for heating components, cutting components, welding components.

00:21:26 Speaker_07
That torch do you think would have been capable of reducing like a power tool to that kind of a shape?

00:21:32 Speaker_05
Definitely, yes. The power tool is fairly light material, all in all, and that torch certainly would be capable of reducing that to a molten clump of different materials.

00:21:46 Speaker_07
Did it seem plausible to you, based on the experiment, that that's what that object could be?

00:21:51 Speaker_05
I believe there was a very close similarity to come across that. I think there was some motive in that. Something involved was destroyed by Josh.

00:22:08 Speaker_07
I can't prove beyond a doubt Josh's melted metal object was a rigid impact driver. But this experiment left me convinced the mystery metal was absolutely a power tool.

00:22:19 Speaker_05
Why would you destroy something like that? Unless for some reason you just wanted to see how long it would take to melt a cordless drill, but why?

00:22:31 Speaker_05
You know, if he'd had the oxyacetylene torch for six months, you know, and he was playing around with it, and he thought, oh, I wonder how long it takes to melt this thing, and had been sitting there, but it only happened within a week, two weeks max.

00:22:48 Speaker_07
The only reason I can conceive why Josh would have taken the time and effort to destroy such a tool, the moment the eyes of police were off him, was if it somehow linked him to Susan's murder.

00:22:58 Speaker_05
Whether he premeditated it, I'll go to Airgas, I'll buy this equipment because I'm going to do this, I'll melt the weapon. I don't believe that to be the case, but that's quite feasible.

00:23:14 Speaker_05
That the destruction of that believed cordless drill, it was involved somehow in Susan's demise.

00:23:27 Speaker_07
While searching through Josh and Susan's photos and home videos, I found a clip from August of 2006, about three years before Susan disappeared. Josh and Susan's first son, Charlie, was a year and a half old.

00:23:40 Speaker_03
Ready? See this saw? And we go.

00:23:45 Speaker_07
That's Susan talking. She and Josh are showing Charlie how to use a Little Tykes brand play set. It's shaped like a miniature woodworking bench, complete with a toy table saw.

00:23:57 Speaker_10
Cut the wood. Oh, you did it! You did it! You cut the wood! You cut the wood! Good job!

00:24:07 Speaker_07
Charlie's a little young for this playset. He doesn't seem to grasp the concept of a table saw, and picks up a toy drill instead. He has trouble holding it steady as he pretends to drive holes into the workbench.

00:24:20 Speaker_07
Charlie makes drilling noises with his mouth, while Josh micromanages Susan's camera work. There's a moment in the video where Charlie walks over to Josh. He presses the plastic drill bit against the bare skin of Josh's foot.

00:24:36 Speaker_10
You're drilling on my foot?

00:24:38 Speaker_07
Charlie flashes a grin.

00:24:39 Speaker_10
What, you think that's funny?

00:24:41 Speaker_07
But listen to what Josh says in response.

00:24:44 Speaker_10
That could really hurt someone.

00:24:47 Speaker_07
I got chills the first time I watched this. Because this could have been a moment when the seed of an idea was planted in Josh's mind.

00:24:57 Speaker_10
Ow, ow, ow. Drills hurt. Ow, ow.

00:25:01 Speaker_07
When he conceived the idea, a power tool could be repurposed into a weapon. And Susan watched it happen. A personal note from me as this episode comes to a close.

00:25:24 Speaker_07
In the years since this podcast first launched, I've heard from many of you about how Susan's story has the power to reveal the sometimes subtle signs of domestic abuse.

00:25:34 Speaker_07
If you see those in your own relationships, please consider calling 1-800-799-SAFE. That's S-A-F-E, to speak with someone who can help. Even if you think you don't know anyone who's experiencing abuse, statistics tell us you do.

00:25:52 Speaker_07
So to honor Susan's memory, please look up information about domestic violence resources in your area. Educate yourself on the red flags of coercive control. Read up on the Lethality Assessment Protocol. Be ready to help the people you care about.

00:26:07 Speaker_07
Together, we can save lives. Cold is researched and written by me, Dave Cauley. Audio production and sound design on this episode by Ben Kebrick. Mixing and mastering by Ben Kebrick.

00:26:21 Speaker_07
Michael Bonmiller composed our main theme with additional guitar stuff by, well, you know. Cold is a production of KSL Podcasts. Our executive producer is Cheryl Worsley.

00:26:33 Speaker_07
Special thanks to Paul Anderson of Workhouse Media and Dave Beesing of Sound That Brands. And as always, thank you for listening.

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