The Smash Burger Smackdown | 5 AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast Business Wars

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Episode: The Smash Burger Smackdown | 5

Author: Wondery
Duration: 00:38:49

Episode Shownotes

From smash burgers to plant patties, this episode is serving up some of the biggest trends in the burger world, and examining whether they're here to stay. Later, David puts some of Southern California's most iconic burgers to the test with Josh Scherer and Nicole Enayati, co-hosts of Mythical Kitchen,

and Eater LA Reporter Mona Holmes.Listen to Business Wars on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season. Unlock exclusive early access by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App or on Apple Podcasts. Start your free trial today by visiting wondery.com/links/business-wars/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Summary

In this episode of Business Wars titled 'The Smash Burger Smackdown,' hosted by David Brown, the discussion centers on the rise of smash burgers and plant-based patties, emphasizing their unique characteristics and popularity in Southern California restaurant culture. Guest insights shed light on iconic burger spots, cooking techniques that enhance flavor, and the cultural significance of burgers in Los Angeles. A taste test features various interpretations of these burgers, leading to debates about their quality and value in comparison to traditional offerings, with some experts arguing for the enduring merit of smash burgers amidst a competitive landscape.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (The Smash Burger Smackdown | 5) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_11
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00:00:16 Speaker_11
Let's step behind the counter for a second and into the fray of a busy kitchen. Can you hear the sizzle? Smell the charbroil? See that smoky haze? Well, today we're talking all about burgers.

00:00:28 Speaker_11
A hamburger is about as American as it gets, despite its German name. The first burger was served at Lewis's Lunch in 1895 in New Haven, Connecticut. That's according to the Library of Congress. But the classic sandwich has come a long way since then.

00:00:43 Speaker_11
For many years, bigger was better when it came to burgers. Bigger patties and toppings piled high. But recently, a new trend has been sweeping the nation. You know the one. The smash burger.

00:00:54 Speaker_11
Devotees rave over its crispy exterior, which they say protects the juicy interior. Their chain Smash Burger led the charge in 2007, but it's taken a while for the technique to catch fire, if you will.

00:01:07 Speaker_11
This thinner, crispier burger is now making its way into high-end restaurants, according to the Wall Street Journal. And another burger that's been trending?

00:01:15 Speaker_11
the meatless kind, plant-based patties on the rise, popping up in everything from fine dining to fast food. And we are going to bite into all that and more and determine how popular burgers stack up in our very own Business Wars taste test.

00:01:31 Speaker_11
We're joined by three guests who get to eat burgers for a living. Eater LA's Mona Holmes and Josh Scher and Nicole Aniety of the YouTube channel Mythical Kitchen. Hope you're hungry, because all that's coming up.

00:01:47 Speaker_04
I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Hagee.

00:01:49 Speaker_04
And we're the hosts of Scamfluencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims, and what's left once the facade falls away.

00:02:01 Speaker_04
Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:02:07 Speaker_08
Hey, this is Nick. And this is Jack. And we just launched a brand new podcast called The Best Idea Yet. You may have heard of it. It's all about the untold origin stories of the products you're obsessed with.

00:02:18 Speaker_08
Listen to The Best Idea Yet on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:02:32 Speaker_11
From Wondery, I'm David Brown, and this is the Smashburger Smackdown. Today, you're gonna get hungry. Don't say I didn't warn you. We're talking all about burgers, and joining us, Josh Scher and Nicole Aniety.

00:02:43 Speaker_11
Their YouTube channel, part of the super popular brand, Good Mythical Morning, where hosts recreate fast food dishes, among other things. Also joining us, Mona Holmes of Eater LA. All right, rapid fire round. Don't think, just blurt it out.

00:02:59 Speaker_11
Favorite burger place in Los Angeles? Mona.

00:03:04 Speaker_05
Chris's Burgers in La Puente.

00:03:06 Speaker_11
Aha! Josh. Pie and Burger in Pasadena. Nicole.

00:03:12 Speaker_06
Gold Burger.

00:03:13 Speaker_11
Gold Burger. All right. I'm wondering if I should get you each to justify your answers. Mona, do you want to go first?

00:03:21 Speaker_05
Sure. I have no idea how long Chris's Burgers has been there. Probably many, many decades. And also, anytime I go there, I ask them questions. They have no time for me. They just cook. And it's just a solid burger that is meaty. but not too meaty.

00:03:38 Speaker_05
It's got a great ratio of lettuce and tomato, melted cheese. The fries are good. The ratio, yes. The ratio is amazing. And I truly love them. It's just one of those great independent burger stands.

00:03:51 Speaker_09
Josh, what about you? So Pie and Burger is a super, super old school diner and pie counter in Pasadena. I believe they've been operating since 1961 or so.

00:04:00 Speaker_09
They kind of half claim to have invented the cheeseburger, but I love them because they have the thickest, coldest iceberg lettuce in the game. Oh, that's nice.

00:04:09 Speaker_11
And Nicole, how about you?

00:04:10 Speaker_06
So Goldberger started during the pandy, also known as the pandemic. It started as a pop-up and they now have two brick and mortars. I think one in Highland Park and one in Silver Lake. And their burger is just phenomenal.

00:04:23 Speaker_06
Their meat lace is unlike any other meat lace I've ever had on a burger.

00:04:27 Speaker_11
I'm sorry, meat lace. What is that exactly?

00:04:30 Speaker_06
So I'm so glad you asked. It's a delicious combination of fried lacy meat that kind of sticks together in this gorgeous pattern once it's like slammed on the grill. And it mixes with the fat from the cheese and that hot, hot griddle.

00:04:44 Speaker_06
And that's what I call it. But they have a phenomenal sauce that goes on it. It's an aioli. It's like a mustard garlic aioli that they put on their burger. And it's just so phenomenal. The sauce is better than any burger sauce I've ever had.

00:04:59 Speaker_06
And yeah, it's number one in my book.

00:05:02 Speaker_11
Yours sounds like the most fancy pants of them all. I mean, gosh, that's pretty swanky. I want to ask you all about the more famous spots.

00:05:10 Speaker_11
I mean, obviously, burgers are a big part of when someone comes from out of town, you want to take them to grab a burger, show them a little bit of the local action. Where would you take them for that classic LA burger experience?

00:05:21 Speaker_11
Anyone want to volunteer?

00:05:23 Speaker_06
I love Apple Pan.

00:05:26 Speaker_11
Apple Pan. Tell us why Apple Pan.

00:05:29 Speaker_06
There's something about sitting around the counter that makes me feel like I've been transported to another time. And I just love the little hats they wear at Apple Pan. And the burger's a really solid burger. I mean, you can get the Hickory burger.

00:05:44 Speaker_06
What's the other burger called? There's the Hickory burger.

00:05:46 Speaker_09
It's like the burger.

00:05:47 Speaker_06
The burger. I think their burgers are solid. They're delicious. Surprise, their tuna melt's actually my favorite thing there. But I just think it's a solid, delicious burger, great produce, great vibes.

00:05:57 Speaker_11
Josh, you mentioned Pasadena claims to have invented the cheeseburger. City of Pasadena actually says it dates back to 1924 at a whopping 15 cents a cheeseburger. You think Pasadena is still holding it down on the cheeseburger front?

00:06:11 Speaker_09
I think they still are. And I think for the same reasons it was invented there. I believe it was invented at a place called The Right Spot. I believe it was originally called the Aristocrat Hamburger. But LA has actually invented a lot of burgers.

00:06:25 Speaker_09
The Pastrami Burger was invented in Los Angeles. The Chili Cheeseburger was invented at Tommy's in Los Angeles, which is another classic spot I'd go to. I love eating out of the trunk of my car. Shout out to the original Tommy's.

00:06:35 Speaker_09
But I think Pasadena, it's still where a lot of very old school stuff in L.A. lives. That's why you can go to a spot like Pie and Burger and still have that old school experience.

00:06:43 Speaker_11
Mona, your job involves reviewing restaurants and staying up to date on everything in the L.A. scene. In fact, folks should know you were nominated for a James Beard Award for some of your culinary reporting.

00:06:53 Speaker_11
So now I'm curious, how would you characterize the local burger space? I mean, it seems pretty iconic. You know, burgers, artangelinos, maybe what pizza is to New Yorkers. That sound about right?

00:07:05 Speaker_05
Yeah, I would characterize it as that. I'd also suggest that it's big, it's diverse, it's dominant. That's what the burger scene is to me. And I think it's pretty telling that when people come into town who haven't spent a lot of time in Los Angeles,

00:07:21 Speaker_05
that there are burger stands and donut shops everywhere. And mountains, and huge mountains. They get shocked. At the trifecta.

00:07:30 Speaker_10
That is so true.

00:07:31 Speaker_05
And it's like, yeah, we got all those things. I know you all thought that we don't eat meat or gluten. But we like our meat between buns and we like our deep fried dough. Or baked.

00:07:42 Speaker_11
Take that, America.

00:07:44 Speaker_05
Take that. And also, as someone who grew up here, I just thought that burger culture that we had was everywhere. So I study it every time I visit a different city, and the levels are just not the same.

00:07:58 Speaker_05
And, you know, which is why I lean towards these wonderful independent burger stands like Jim's and Tam's and Astro Burger and Super Burger, who all make solid burgers, you know? And they throw pastrami on top of it, too. It's like the best thing ever.

00:08:17 Speaker_11
Josh, Nicole, I know y'all spend a fair amount of time in the kitchen recreating famous fast food orders, but also cooking up burgers. I understand there was a burger cooking face-off that went down a little while back, and Nicole has bragging rights.

00:08:30 Speaker_11
What actually happened there?

00:08:32 Speaker_06
That's right. We made an oxtail burger. So we made a delicious burger patty. We smashed it down. We added some smoked gouda on there, some braised oxtail, maybe like a 24-hour braised oxtail.

00:08:44 Speaker_06
And then we made a scotch bonnet aioli in between a beautiful brioche bun. And I totally deserve that W. That was a good dub.

00:08:51 Speaker_09
I agree because I remember what I made.

00:08:54 Speaker_06
I flew too close to the sun. Yes, you made a wet dream burger. Please expand on that.

00:08:58 Speaker_09
I won. Mona's talking about fried dough and burgers. I combined them. I made savory beignet buns.

00:09:03 Speaker_06
Yes.

00:09:04 Speaker_09
And then I made like a Cajun seasoned pork patty and then put like butter and garlic sauteed shrimp and owed to the actual Viet Cajun classic of the shrimp oil.

00:09:12 Speaker_06
There's definitely a lot more going on in this burger than the last one. All right. All right. All right.

00:09:21 Speaker_09
Frankly, nine too many ingredients on that burger should have cut that at least in half.

00:09:26 Speaker_06
Braised celery, right? Was that on it? There was something like pickled celery.

00:09:29 Speaker_11
I don't even know anymore. Mona, I need you here. When you're judging burgers, what do you look for in the perfect burger? Because honestly, when you're talking about shrimp and all these other ingredients, when is a burger not a burger anymore?

00:09:44 Speaker_11
Just a sandwich.

00:09:47 Speaker_05
You know, because I sit in a room with four other food writers all day, we've probably been debating that for about four years now, maybe longer, actually. But I am not picky. The criteria for me for judging a burger

00:10:06 Speaker_05
is juiciness of whatever the protein is, because it can be beef or turkey. Turkey burgers are delicious. So are chicken burgers. The amount of fat that's in there is where most of the flavor is going to be and the juiciness. It's got to be tender.

00:10:24 Speaker_05
No one likes an overcooked piece of meat. And then, again, the balance of ratio for condiments. To me, that's for a traditional thick burger.

00:10:35 Speaker_05
For smash burgers, it does vary a little bit, and actually quite a bit, because once again, you know that, what is, how did you describe it again? The lacy goodness? Did I call it lacy meat?

00:10:46 Speaker_09
I think meat lace.

00:10:47 Speaker_05
Meat lace. Meat lace.

00:10:48 Speaker_11
I'm glad you asked, because that's freaking me out a little bit, I gotta be honest with you.

00:10:53 Speaker_05
It's so good, but they just, what they do is they smash it on that griddle, And they have to be super careful. It doesn't take very long to cook, obviously, because it's super thin. But when it's overdone, it's overly chewy. It's rough.

00:11:10 Speaker_05
And the flavor just isn't there. And then they've got to sprinkle whatever they've got to put on that. So it really does take some skill to put together the perfect smash burger. But you'll know because there's a slight crisp.

00:11:23 Speaker_05
and just really good flavor and also really good quality ingredients. You can't go cheap on a Smashburger because you can taste it right away. It's the worst.

00:11:30 Speaker_11
Speaking of Smashburgers, it's time for a break, but when we come back, we've got our very own burger taste test. Stay with us.

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00:13:53 Speaker_11
Hey, welcome back to Business Wars. My guests are Josh Scher and Nicole Inayati, kitcheneers on the YouTube channel Mythical Kitchen and hosts of the podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, where they have spirited debates about your favorite foods.

00:14:06 Speaker_11
We're also joined by Foodie Mona Holmes, an award-winning writer at Eater LA. Now, Mona, you gave us a great description of a smash burger earlier. When did these come on the scene? I'm trying to think the first time I ever heard of a smash burger.

00:14:20 Speaker_11
And it seems like it was about five years ago or something. But maybe that's because I'm in Austin. I'm not in the burger capital of the country.

00:14:28 Speaker_05
For us in Los Angeles, it started in 2017 with Burgers Never Say Die. And it started as a pop-up in a backyard, and then it became this permanent Silver Lake spot, and it just exploded.

00:14:41 Speaker_05
And with every trend, of course, everyone wanted to try and mimic it or improve it. And in a city like L.A., that can happen really fast.

00:14:49 Speaker_05
So it shows no sign of slowing, but you can go out in just about any part of the city and find folks that might be more established or on the sidewalk making truly excellent smash burgers.

00:15:03 Speaker_11
Now Josh and Nicole, can you walk us through how a smash burger is actually made? I mean, how do you get to lacy meat?

00:15:10 Speaker_09
It's actually really interesting. So most, if you're not making a smash burger, you would likely form the patty as it's raw and then griddle it and flip it with a smash burger. You actually want the patty to be a ball.

00:15:21 Speaker_09
Now, a lot of people will take that patty, typically a 70, 30 lean to fat ratio. You need good fat to get the smash action on it. And you'll roll that in salt to get good seasoning on it. And then you will need some sort of patty smasher.

00:15:33 Speaker_09
Now, the original patty smasher, according to legend, was a large paint can. But people have actually made, some chefs will stack two spatulas on top of each other, some will use jerry-rigged devices where they put a handle on a big heavy weight.

00:15:48 Speaker_11
Wait a minute, can't anything smash a piece of meat, a ball of meat? Give me a break. Is there really a debate over this?

00:15:56 Speaker_09
100% and I swear some are way better than others because what you really need is something heavy that you can press down on this ball of meat to flatten it completely evenly with force all around. That's how you maintain the circular shape.

00:16:10 Speaker_09
And then what a lot of chefs will do is you have to twist your wrist

00:16:14 Speaker_09
to create that circle, because the goal is to get as much surface area and force as possible on that meat to the griddle to create what's called the Maillard reaction, or effectively the browning of any meat.

00:16:25 Speaker_09
That's where protein effectively turns into glutamate, which is the main flavor that we taste with umami or savoriness. And then you flip that lacy, smashed, crispy, fatty meat.

00:16:36 Speaker_09
If there's enough fat in it, that's where the lace comes in, because the fat evaporates through the meat to create these little pores. flip that over, put some cheese on it to melt it, throw it in a bun, and that's a Smashburger.

00:16:47 Speaker_11
I have completely underrated this. This is a science. This is beyond art. And they are hard to make, too.

00:16:56 Speaker_06
Yes, they are, to get right. They've had plenty of trial and error.

00:17:01 Speaker_11
Well, let's talk about how Smashburgers compare to the originals, and perhaps the best way to do that is with a Smashburger Smackdown. I gather that each of you have two burgers in front of you.

00:17:12 Speaker_11
We have a Smashburger from Heavy Handed, which was shouted out in Eater's Best Burgers in LA Roundup. You've also got the Irv's Original Roadside Single Burger.

00:17:23 Speaker_11
This was also featured on the Eater list, and that chain's been an LA staple since the 1940s, I think it is.

00:17:29 Speaker_11
So you've got one smash burger, one classic, and we're going to have you test each one and give us the verdict on which you think is more satisfying. Team, you ready?

00:17:37 Speaker_06
Born ready.

00:17:38 Speaker_11
All right. Let's begin with the heavy handed smash burger. Josh, Nicole, maybe you can describe what you've got in your hands or getting in your hands there right now.

00:17:47 Speaker_06
Well, it looks like we have a burger, a double, is this a double? Am I seeing, no, it's a single. It's a burger, I must be, I'm hungry. It's a soft bun, I'm thinking it might be a potato, is this a potato bun?

00:18:02 Speaker_09
It looks like a potato bun to me.

00:18:04 Speaker_06
Yeah, and then we have some caramelized onions a la In-N-Out, and then we have a smash burger patty and some American cheese, some burger sauce with a little bit of pickle, And it looks pretty damn good. Can, may I eat it?

00:18:18 Speaker_11
Well, hold, hold, hold for just, I'm going to check with Mona. Mona, what are your first thoughts on the burger, the size, smell, all that?

00:18:25 Speaker_05
Well, listen, I've, I've had both of these burgers multiple times, many times, and, and I, I'm actually a fan of both. And, and, uh, Nicole, your description is absolutely perfect. Um, you know, these are, these are made with short rib.

00:18:41 Speaker_05
And they are juicy and super fatty. Like the last time I had one, I basically went home and took a nap. And caramelized onions, and yes, it's a potato bun.

00:18:58 Speaker_05
I think there's butter pickles on here, if I'm not mistaken, because I believe they deep fry them. And yeah, they're a solid burger maker.

00:19:06 Speaker_11
All right, moment of truth. Go ahead and take a bite. I'm not hearing any of that mm sound. You know how when you like something, you sort of involuntarily go mm. So what are we thinking?

00:19:21 Speaker_06
So my initial thought is that the potato bun has a level of sweetness that really contributes to the whole bite. And then there's that savory funk with the onions that I think is really delicious.

00:19:32 Speaker_10
Savory funk.

00:19:33 Speaker_06
Yeah, I mean the caramelized notes are it's like a funky oniony taste without that crunch and the pickles I'm not wild about these pickles Yeah, they're a sweet pickle.

00:19:44 Speaker_09
I'm not the biggest fan. But if we're talking about the actual burger, this is cooked really, really well. Some smash burgers, they get so thin that you lose the character of the meat. But here you get the best of both worlds.

00:19:54 Speaker_09
You get that lacy, crispy edge. Like Mona said, it's short rib. There's so much fat in it. But then there's still a nice meaty bite in the middle. Maybe my favorite thing is the way that the grease from the burger becomes a condiment.

00:20:04 Speaker_09
It soaks into that potato bun. This thing is so soft that it almost eats like a dumpling, which I love.

00:20:10 Speaker_11
Mona, you want to weigh in here?

00:20:12 Speaker_05
Yeah, but Josh and Nicole, I love your descriptions. I'll say.

00:20:16 Speaker_11
Adjective city. Good night.

00:20:20 Speaker_05
They're pretty amazing. I mean, listen, well, first off, I'm not a huge fan of pickles in a burger. I don't say it either. I just I just don't.

00:20:31 Speaker_05
But this combination with this bun, I think that there's a nice contrast that or an extra sweetness that helps make this bearable for someone who typically doesn't like pickles on a burger. But the sauce, the sauce is so yummy.

00:20:46 Speaker_05
You know, it's just got, once again, the ratio is just right for me.

00:20:50 Speaker_11
And what's going on in that sauce? Is that mayo or something else happening? What's happening with that sauce?

00:20:56 Speaker_05
I mean, you would say, okay, this feels like a special sauce, but this is far better than a McDonald's special sauce. It's nice and tangy. It's just a really nice burger. And it's super awkwardly messy in a great way. I don't like my food to be perfect.

00:21:11 Speaker_05
And this is, you know, it's ugly and it's perfect.

00:21:15 Speaker_11
It's ugly and it's perfect. That is a quote right there. All right. Any other takeaways from burger number one before we move along?

00:21:22 Speaker_09
What a lovely treat it is to eat a free hamburger. I'm having a good time so far.

00:21:25 Speaker_11
Oh, that's great. It's great. Great. All right. Well, hearing no objection, let's move on to Irv's original roadside single burger. Now, Josh and Nicole, you may have to split that one.

00:21:36 Speaker_09
We do, but it's bigger than two.

00:21:38 Speaker_06
We're used to sharing.

00:21:40 Speaker_11
So, Mona, give us a quick description of Irv's. What you got in front of you there? This is a historic burger.

00:21:46 Speaker_05
It is. I mean, like you mentioned before, they've been around since the 40s. And this is a place that's gone through multiple rounds of ownership that was brought back from the dead, effectively. And people have such a love for herbs.

00:22:03 Speaker_05
And, you know, there was a new owner that brought them back in 2000. You know, I consider it one of LA's historic burgers. People often, in a city like LA, they go on a taco crawl.

00:22:16 Speaker_05
I think that you could actually go on a burger crawl and Irv's would be a part of that tour.

00:22:20 Speaker_11
Yeah. Josh, Nicole, how would you describe this burger and how it's different from the Smash Burger?

00:22:27 Speaker_06
It's real big.

00:22:28 Speaker_11
It's a big one. It's a big one.

00:22:29 Speaker_09
That's a big boy.

00:22:30 Speaker_06
It is beautiful. I mean, as an L.A. native, born and raised, I agree with everything you said, Mona. Irv's is iconic. It is delicious. And people will do crazy things to get an Irv's burger. It's just big. The bun looks toasted.

00:22:43 Speaker_06
The cheese is covering all over that meat. There's veg in here, which I like. It looks like there's tomato and lettuce. What else is in there, Josh?

00:22:50 Speaker_09
You got some chopped white onion. You got some proper dill pickles, which I respect. Also, interestingly, the lettuce and tomato are beneath the patty and the onions and pickles are on top. And I agree with that. This is architecture. This is history.

00:23:02 Speaker_06
Right. Yeah. It's a well-architectured burger.

00:23:05 Speaker_09
The Frank Lloyd Wright of burgers.

00:23:08 Speaker_11
Part of this is where the tongue meets first, right? I mean, it's where the taste actually kicks in. That's part of the architecture of it, right?

00:23:16 Speaker_05
I would agree.

00:23:17 Speaker_11
Someone's eating their burger already. All right, let's go out and take a bite. How does this compare with the Smashburger, y'all? What's standing out? Anyone want to jump in?

00:23:27 Speaker_09
This burger, it makes me feel taken care of. I feel safe with this burger. Hear me out. It's so big. That's a full meal, right? That's like you just left the Dodger game. You didn't want to pay $17 for a hot dog. You go to Herb's.

00:23:41 Speaker_09
This is filling you up at 11 at night. This has such great old-school appeal to it. And I would argue, it is still a smash burger. You can see the lacy meat edge. It's not crushed, it's not ostentatiously thin, but this has an incredible cook on it.

00:23:56 Speaker_09
You can taste the seasoning on that grill. I love this burger.

00:24:00 Speaker_06
Yeah, I'd say it has. It's much more harmonious than the last burger we ate. I think all of the veg really helps. I think it eats really, really well. It's thick enough while still being thin enough. I think it's just perfect. It's really delicious.

00:24:15 Speaker_06
Everything is seasoned to the edge. It's delicious. Nothing is offensive about it. You could eat a burger. You could eat this entire burger and not feel bad. With the heavy handed, I felt like it was heavy. It really was heavy.

00:24:28 Speaker_09
It's in the name.

00:24:30 Speaker_06
as heavy, but it still feels like you're getting a full meal. I love this burger, man.

00:24:35 Speaker_11
It's been so long.

00:24:36 Speaker_06
Wow. That's delicious.

00:24:39 Speaker_11
You know, I think I picked up on Josh suggesting that Irv's was the Smashburger before Smashburgers were Smashburgers. Is that about right?

00:24:49 Speaker_05
Yeah, Josh is right. Josh knows his stuff. But yeah, this absolutely reminds me of my childhood. You know, a burger that you could find in many spaces in Los Angeles for sure.

00:25:06 Speaker_10
Yeah, see nostalgia.

00:25:09 Speaker_05
Yeah, and listen, like I said, the last time I had a heavy handed burger, I went home and took a nap. I would be completely okay after eating an Erv's burger. I could probably run around the Rose Bowl if I wanted to. Same. Prove it. Meet you there.

00:25:24 Speaker_05
Okay, maybe I'd take that.

00:25:26 Speaker_11
I think I know how this is gonna end, y'all. All right, so final thoughts. Heavy-handed Smash Burger versus Erv's. Original roadside single. Smash versus classic, shall we say? Who reigns supreme?

00:25:41 Speaker_06
I'm going with Erv's, baby.

00:25:43 Speaker_09
I'm going with herbs.

00:25:48 Speaker_05
Whoa! Hear me out, hear me out, hear me out, okay? I love the fattiness of it. It's so fatty. I love that. It's so juicy. I love that.

00:26:02 Speaker_09
A single issue burger voter here.

00:26:06 Speaker_05
Yes, that's me. That is me. Yeah. And I mean, and you know, that answer could vary through the day or the week. depending on what mood that I'm in. Because for late night hours, I tend not to eat super heavy.

00:26:21 Speaker_05
I would totally go over an Herb's burger over a heavy handed, like at 10 o'clock at night. But yeah, that's where I'm at.

00:26:31 Speaker_11
You are so bold. All right, let's settle a debate here or try to attempt to. Nicole, you and Josh got into this on your podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, over whether the Smashburger was overrated. And I think we have a clip from that here.

00:26:45 Speaker_06
Smashburgers, are they overrated? No, they're so damn good. Thank God that we steered away from these thick burgers where they're pink in the middle and they're bloody and the blood seeps into the bun.

00:26:58 Speaker_09
It's not blood.

00:26:59 Speaker_06
Whatever, whatever, heme, heme. Like, who cares? But I just don't love it. Like, I love the crispy, lacy edges of a smash burger.

00:27:09 Speaker_11
Knowing what we know now, factoring in these taste tests, have your minds changed at all, Nicole, Josh?

00:27:17 Speaker_06
Nope. They're so good. There's nothing wrong with a good smash burger. I think what makes a good smash burger is what it's built upon. I think the bun matters. I think the condiments matter.

00:27:29 Speaker_09
I think there were a lot of smash burgers throughout history before we started using the term smash burger. And I think those tend to be my favorite.

00:27:39 Speaker_09
But afterwards, when people really started, they started smashing burgers without thinking about why, Nicole. And that's where I draw the line. The intentional smash burgers of the 1950s. Shout out to King's Burgers out in Northridge.

00:27:53 Speaker_09
Shout out to Bill's and Van Nuys. My heart still lies with them.

00:27:57 Speaker_04
With the OGs.

00:28:00 Speaker_11
Mona, what's your take? Are smash burgers just a fad or something else?

00:28:05 Speaker_05
You know, I mean, I mean, they're still around. There's still plenty. So I don't, I don't think they're going away. And I think they're an excellent burger.

00:28:13 Speaker_05
I think that we could thin out the field because there are, there are so many, like I would rather just focus on the food rather than a gimmick. And so I would love for all of these extra ones to just go away for a while and maybe forever.

00:28:33 Speaker_05
And, you know, so that the good ones can do their magic.

00:28:37 Speaker_11
All right, well, this was absolutely delicious. And Josh and Nicole, I think something else is going on in your kitchen and this is where we have to let y'all go.

00:28:44 Speaker_11
Thanks so much for helping us out with this taste test and sharing your fantastic insights. How can people watch your stuff?

00:28:51 Speaker_09
You can head over to YouTube and check out the Mythical Kitchen channel and then also our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, wherever you get your podcasts.

00:28:58 Speaker_11
Excellent. Josh Sher and Nicole Aniety of the YouTube channel Mythical Kitchen, thanks so much for joining us on this special edition of Business Wars. It's been a lot of fun. Yeah, thank you.

00:29:10 Speaker_06
Thank you so much for having us.

00:29:11 Speaker_11
Coming up, Mona Holmes is sticking around to talk us through some of the biggest trends in the burger world, from the fast food OGs to plant-based meat. That's when Business Wars returns.

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00:31:31 Speaker_11
Hey, welcome back to Business Wars. Let's talk about the next frontier of burgers. Here's a startling fact for fast food OGs like McDonald's and Burger King.

00:31:40 Speaker_11
The chains pushing those smash burgers, you think Five Guys, Shake Shack, and of course, Smash Burger, are growing faster than the traditional chains, according to the research firm Technomic.

00:31:51 Speaker_11
That led McDonald's to revamp its burger in 2023, adding a brioche bun to preserve heat, better storage for the lettuce, pickles, and onions, and a press that doesn't squish out too much of the juices, additional sauce, and a whole lot more.

00:32:05 Speaker_11
Mona Holmes from Eater LA, do you eat at McDonald's ever?

00:32:09 Speaker_05
No, unless I have to.

00:32:14 Speaker_11
Have you had the opportunity to check out the changes over at Mickey D's or no?

00:32:20 Speaker_05
I keep track of them, but I don't try them just because I have a commitment to making sure that I stay within independent restaurants as much as possible.

00:32:36 Speaker_05
And so McDonald's and Burger King, I do confess that I have not tried their new inventions and imitators of Smash Burgers, but I do believe that competition is a healthy thing. But one thing I do know about L.A. Diners is that

00:32:54 Speaker_05
They're very similar to my practices, that they're not nearly as drawn to the big corporations when trying something like this.

00:33:02 Speaker_05
You know, I often look at behaviors and what people are doing and what they're eating and what they're dining and see what they're posting on social media.

00:33:11 Speaker_05
And they are as eager to share their new finds of something that's new and fresh and independent And that's typically not with a spot like McDonald's or Burger King. And I haven't heard a lot of chatter.

00:33:26 Speaker_11
You have not heard, and I think that's probably telling, but at the same time, if you are with some of these big chains, I mean, how do you keep up?

00:33:34 Speaker_11
And in fact, do you notice that they're even trying seriously to keep up with the indies by introducing some of these changes? Or is that happening at all from what you can tell?

00:33:45 Speaker_05
I mean, you definitely see it. I mean, you even have with El Pollo Loco that they are now serving birria, which is something that is ubiquitous throughout Los Angeles.

00:33:57 Speaker_05
And this very saucy, stewy way of preparing meat, typically on a taco or a burrito or just on its own with this really wonderful consomme that comes on the side. So, you know, I'll absolutely track them.

00:34:13 Speaker_05
And, you know, and also truthfully that Pollo Loco, someone brought it over to my house. That was the only way that I really got to try it. And I have to say it was actually pretty tasty. It's not something that I'm going to try again.

00:34:25 Speaker_05
But again, I believe that competition is a healthy thing. If the big guns, the big McDonald's and Burger Kings and Pollo Locos of the world can

00:34:34 Speaker_05
can up their game a little bit and step away from their standard stuff that they've been doing for decades, I say let them go for it.

00:34:41 Speaker_11
Well, you know, there's another tactic that fast food spots are using to get more customers in the door. Plant-based options. Burger King has an Impossible Whopper. KFC has Beyond Meat Chicken Nuggets.

00:34:52 Speaker_11
Chicken spelled C-H-I-C-K-N, no E. Where do the Es go in these things? McDonald's has its own Beyond Meat McPlant Sandwich at select locations in Texas and California. What are your thoughts on including plant-based items on a traditional burger menu?

00:35:09 Speaker_05
I love it. I live with a vegetarian. So I feel very comfortable discussing this. And the truth is that they're fine. These burgers are, I would never say that they're outright delicious. And they're not like anything like when I'm craving beef.

00:35:30 Speaker_05
But as someone who has to watch what I eat, because I do eat out a lot, I might order a burger, a Beyond Burger or Impossible to see what it tastes like or if they have a house-made vegetarian patty, I would give it a try.

00:35:45 Speaker_05
But I do see, you know, there is something within me that it doesn't sit well, you know, paying $17 or more for a plant-based burger like that.

00:35:55 Speaker_05
But having said all of that, I brought home a burger from Easy Street Burger, which is in the San Fernando Valley here in L.A. a burger that was brought to prominence because a famous TikToker named Keith Lee reviewed their burgers.

00:36:10 Speaker_05
And they used Beyond Patties as alternatives for customers to come in. And they were fantastic, truly delicious and covered in, you know, kind of defeating the purpose, but covered in American cheese and sauce and also smash.

00:36:23 Speaker_05
But it was, I was really stunned. I brought home one for myself, a regular one for myself and a plant-based one for my husband. And we both loved it.

00:36:31 Speaker_11
A smash burger that's vegan? How do you do that?

00:36:36 Speaker_05
They smelled it.

00:36:38 Speaker_11
You gotta believe, I guess. But I can't, I'm having a harder time imagining it, to be honest with you. What's that like?

00:36:45 Speaker_05
Yeah, I mean, you know, it tasted, they did manage to get some of that crispiness on the edges, and you know, and also too, your protein is as good as your cooking techniques and the seasoning, and they managed to balance both.

00:37:00 Speaker_05
I don't know what they did, but it was delicious.

00:37:02 Speaker_11
Is there a scene for meatless burgers in LA? Is it risen to that level of popularity or not so much?

00:37:09 Speaker_05
Oh, for sure. We have 29,000 restaurants in LA County, and a huge percentage of them are vegetarian or vegan, where there's not a source of animal products at all.

00:37:23 Speaker_05
And so finding more options on not just in vegan restaurants, but finding a Beyond Burger or an Impossible Burger at a restaurant that provides everything, that's not very uncommon.

00:37:37 Speaker_05
But plant-based food and restaurants has been going on and innovating quite well for decades now. And honestly, a lot has changed. So it's kind of great to see everyone embrace all of it.

00:37:49 Speaker_11
Well, I'm thinking there may be some people who are looking for standouts. Any names come to mind?

00:37:56 Speaker_05
Oh, yeah, sure. I mean, you can go to a place like Crossroads Chicken, where at Crossroads Kitchen.

00:38:07 Speaker_05
And I could bring someone who is an omnivore and not tell them that this is all vegan, where they'll sit at a beautiful table with white tablecloths and great food and great wines, and they will bring out some of the most stunning foods that you've ever seen that actually taste good.

00:38:26 Speaker_05
El Cocinero is one of my favorites. That's in the San Fernando Valley as well. They make delicious Mexican street food. And I have brought meat eaters in there and just not said anything because we were hungry and it's grab.

00:38:40 Speaker_05
It's pretty much you can sit there or grab and go. And they all said the flavors were delicious. You know, another place is Boulan Thai in Silver Lake.

00:38:51 Speaker_05
They've been there for three decades now, and they make one of my favorite curries in town, and their food is delicious.

00:38:58 Speaker_11
Now, we're way beyond burgers here, if you'll pardon the pun, an unintentional pun. But if we're talking about a plant-based patty world, I think most people think of Beyond Meat and Impossible Burger, which are the two companies leading the charge.

00:39:13 Speaker_11
That's the basic protein that a lot of these places that are trying to do meatless hamburgers, they go for those too. I'm curious, I assume you've tried both. Do you have one you prefer?

00:39:27 Speaker_05
Oh, I'm not a fan of black bean burgers. Not a fan of black bean burgers. Yes, yeah, they're not great. I tend to stay away from any type of, you know, where they're proprietary, where they're made with some kind of bean or legume.

00:39:43 Speaker_05
You know, I just tend not to like those.

00:39:46 Speaker_11
Not even the stuff that they sort of brag that it bleeds, right? The fake meat that's red, it doesn't look like it's made from legumes.

00:39:56 Speaker_05
Yeah, you know, well, there's I mean, there's a difference between those the the ones that are house made with like, you know, very more natural ingredients, because there is a segment of plant based diners that doesn't really like to eat anything that mimics meat.

00:40:11 Speaker_05
And so they tend to stay away from Beyond Burgers and Impossible Burgers, but they will have one that's full of more nutrient-dense food, so like lentils or black beans or garbanzo.

00:40:24 Speaker_05
But if I had to choose between beyond or impossible as far as taste goes, I feel like they're very similar. Their consistency is slightly different. The fake little blood kind of action. I am not really turned on by that.

00:40:37 Speaker_05
I don't know any vegetarian that would be turned on by that. But I would say that they provide for me a much more flavorful option than the others.

00:40:48 Speaker_11
Interesting. What do you think the official next burger fad is going to be? I mean, where do burgers go from here? I don't think anyone really saw the smash burger coming and all of a sudden it becomes a ripe, proper thing.

00:41:04 Speaker_11
So what do you think's around the corner?

00:41:08 Speaker_05
I don't know, but I do believe that people at any time, because I comb the internet, I ask people all the time, I'll tell you what people are craving. They are craving the return of the thick, juicy patty. They are tired of the smash burger.

00:41:27 Speaker_05
They just want a big, thick one that they can just tear into and just savor. You know, something that was much more standard pre-2017 in Los Angeles. So there's that.

00:41:40 Speaker_05
But also, potentially, but places really upping their game with the type of beef that they use. I'm noticing that a lot of people are using regenerative beef. It's a practice, a land management practice.

00:41:53 Speaker_05
that revamps how people manage livestock and produce to one that's more sustainable through restoring the soil, maintaining the ecosystem. It's a much more slow movement. And truthfully, it tastes better and is better for the earth.

00:42:09 Speaker_05
So yeah, potentially those two could be some future trends.

00:42:13 Speaker_11
Mona, this has been so much fun. Where can folks find your reporting online?

00:42:17 Speaker_05
They can find my reporting at la.eater.com. I'm also on Instagram at MonaEats. And I'm also a regular contributor at KCRW.com, where I talk about food issues in Southern California and beyond.

00:42:33 Speaker_11
Mona Holmes is an Eater LA reporter, KCRW contributor, James Beard Award nominee. You can follow her at MonaEats on Instagram. Mona, it's been a lot of fun. Thanks so much for joining us on Business Wars.

00:42:46 Speaker_05
Thanks for having me.

00:42:48 Speaker_11
Coming up, the two dominant makers of fake meat, Beyond Meat and Impossible Burger, turn a fight for the environment into a fight with each other.

00:43:00 Speaker_11
If you like Business Wars, you can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.

00:43:12 Speaker_11
Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. From Wondery, this is the Smashburger Smackdown for Business Wars.

00:43:25 Speaker_11
If you want to hear more from the Burger Wars, make sure to check out our series, McDonald's vs. Burger King. I'm your host, David Brown. Emily Frost and Kelly Kyle produced this episode. Our producer is Grant Rudder. Audio engineer, Sergio Enriquez.

00:43:38 Speaker_11
Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior producers are Karen Lowe and Dave Schilling. Our senior managing producer is Ryan Lohr. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman and Marshall Louie. For Wondery.

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00:44:52 Speaker_02
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