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Episode: The Search for Sheree | Nighthawk | 5

Author: KSL Podcasts | Wondery
Duration: 01:10:38

Episode Shownotes

Cary Hartmann brings look-alikes to a police lineup in the Ogden City Rapist case. His TV reporter friend Larry Lewis tests the boundaries of journalistic ethics when Cary goes to trial. Police detective Jack Bell receives a letter about Sheree Warren and the TV show “Unsolved Mysteries.”Season 3 of Cold

includes descriptions of rape, sexual assault, murder and domestic violence. Please take care when listening.Listen to Cold on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/cold/ now.Please support us by supporting our sponsors!BetterHelp - This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/COLD and get on your way to being your best self.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Full Transcript

00:00:01 Speaker_16
This season of The Cold Podcast includes descriptions of rape, sexual assault, murder, and domestic violence. Please take care in listening. Weber County Attorney Reed Richards believed he had the Ogden City rapist in his sights.

00:00:17 Speaker_16
He had charged Carrie Hartman with felony crimes for a string of home invasion sexual assaults that had occurred across the city.

00:00:24 Speaker_05
We had one of the victims who had gone to a bar one night and heard over the loudspeaker somebody announcing and recognized the voice of the person that had broken into her home. That turned out to be Kerry Hartman.

00:00:36 Speaker_16
Kerry faced charges in four separate cases. Police suspected him and several more, but all were short on evidence.

00:00:43 Speaker_05
We didn't have DNA back then. Now we might have approached it a little differently. If you could get DNA samples from each of the women and tie it to him, that would be different. We didn't have that.

00:00:52 Speaker_16
Only one of the women had picked Carey's picture out of a photo lineup.

00:00:56 Speaker_05
And that's not really unusual because he came in in the dark. He didn't let them see his face.

00:01:02 Speaker_16
Another of the women, a person I'm calling Caroline, had told police she didn't want to look at a picture lineup. She wanted the real thing. Reid didn't have much time to make a lineup happen. The court had scheduled a preliminary hearing.

00:01:15 Speaker_16
Each of the four women were going to testify. Reed knew the judge might not advance the case if none of them could say with confidence Carey was the man who had assaulted them.

00:01:25 Speaker_05
It was challenging. And many of those women, once they went to the police, actually moved because they didn't want whoever it was to know where they were at.

00:01:33 Speaker_16
Carey had managed to get out of jail ahead of that hearing, after his parents put up their own property as collateral for his bail. Reid was fighting that, too, trying to protect his witnesses. People here were really frightened about going outside.

00:01:47 Speaker_16
The vast majority of rape and sexual assault cases are committed by someone known to the victim. The Ogden City rapist cases were rare exceptions. Police believed Kerry Hartman in some instances stalked his victims.

00:02:02 Speaker_16
The idea of a stranger sneaking into the homes of sleeping women should make you shudder. It's terrifying, but also very, very uncommon. Still, it had happened in Ogden, repeatedly, through 1984, 85, 86, and 87. Time and time again, same scenario.

00:02:21 Speaker_16
So the threat felt very real. Police were telling women in Ogden not to go out alone after dark, especially if they were young, single, and had children. And it had been a little over a year since one rape victim, Joyce Yost, had reported her assault.

00:02:39 Speaker_06
He grabbed me by the throat and he was forceful.

00:02:44 Speaker_16
then disappeared days before she was supposed to testify at trial. So for any of these Ogden rape victims, heading to court must have felt like a dangerous gamble.

00:02:54 Speaker_16
Reed arranged to hold a lineup for Caroline the day before she was to testify at Kerry Hartman's preliminary hearing. He told me both the lineup and the prelim were tough asks to make.

00:03:05 Speaker_05
Because you're trying to find the person that's willing to go through what's going to be a nasty, nasty time.

00:03:11 Speaker_16
But Caroline rose to the task. We met her back in episode three. She was the woman who had fallen asleep watching an old World War II movie and woke into the sound of a strange man turning off the TV.

00:03:23 Speaker_16
Now, a year later, Caroline came into another darkened room, along with Reed, Ogden Police Detective Chris Zimmerman, and a man she didn't know, Kerry Hartman's defense attorney, Kevin Sullivan.

00:03:36 Speaker_16
I reached out to Kevin to ask about his recollections of this lineup, but he didn't respond.

00:03:41 Speaker_05
But the actual lineup was done after he had an attorney, and I think they took part in deciding who was going to be standing in the lineup. And that's how the brother got in there.

00:03:51 Speaker_16
You heard that right. Cary Hartman's younger brother, Jack Hartman, was in the lineup with him. Cary's cousin, David Hartman, stood in the lineup too. And I've been told David was a dead ringer for Cary.

00:04:04 Speaker_05
As I recall, a brother tried to look like the person had been when they broke in and Hartman tried to change his appearance.

00:04:11 Speaker_16
So when Caroline went to try and point out the man who had assaulted her, three of the guys in that lineup looked an awful lot alike. Which was unusual. Lineups were typically filled out with an assortment of jail inmates.

00:04:26 Speaker_16
Caroline looked at the seven men, three of whom were related. She was on one side of a pane of mirrored glass, the men were on the other, along with a jailer who held a card printed with phrases the rapist had used.

00:04:39 Speaker_16
One by one, the men picked up a telephone receiver and read from the card.

00:04:44 Speaker_07
Number one, you'll wake the kids, I'll blow their heads off.

00:04:48 Speaker_16
Caroline listened on the other end of that phone line.

00:04:51 Speaker_07
Number two, you'll wake the kids, I'll blow their heads off.

00:04:56 Speaker_16
She had told police the man who'd attacked her had a distinctive voice. Number three. You'll wake the kids. I'll blow their heads off. Detective Chris Zimmerman watched Caroline as she listened. Number four.

00:05:12 Speaker_15
You'll wake the kids. I'll blow their heads off.

00:05:14 Speaker_08
You'll wake the kids. You'll wake the kids. I'll blow their heads off.

00:05:19 Speaker_16
The second she heard No. 4's voice, Caroline began to shake. Zimmerman wrote on a notepad she appeared shocked and frightened. Cary Hartman was No. But he looked different than he had a year earlier. He'd shaved his mustache and trimmed his hair.

00:05:36 Speaker_16
The rest of the men in the lineup took their turns reading the card. Reed then asked Caroline if any of them stood out to her. "'Number four hit me really strong,' she said. "'But he don't have a mustache, "'and his mustache was like number six's.'

00:05:50 Speaker_16
"'Caroline peered through the glass. "'These two even look like they could be brothers,' she said. "'Four and six.' "'She asked Reed if the two were related. "'He said he couldn't tell her. "'She had four and six each read the card again.'

00:06:07 Speaker_16
They even sound the same," she said. Caroline wasn't sure which man to pick. They were just so alike. But according to a transcript of the lineup, she told Reed she leaned more toward number six, the one with a mustache.

00:06:23 Speaker_16
She didn't know it, but she had just picked Carrie's cousin, David Hartman. In his journal that night, Carey wrote he had scored a win at the lineup. The invisible woman on the other side of the mirrored glass had not identified him.

00:06:39 Speaker_15
In other words, Dave Hardman saved our buns.

00:06:45 Speaker_16
This is Cold, Season 3, Episode 5, Nighthawk. From KSL Podcasts, I'm Dave Cauley. One of the four women Carrie Hartman stood accused of sexually assaulting had tried to pick her attacker out of a lineup.

00:07:15 Speaker_16
She had wavered between pointing out Carrie or his look-alike cousin David Hartman. She had told Weber County attorney Reed Richards she couldn't tell the two men apart.

00:07:25 Speaker_05
Right. Got pretty close. It was helpful. It was better than nothing.

00:07:29 Speaker_16
The woman, who I'm calling Caroline, took the stand at Carrie's preliminary hearing the day after the lineup. She pointed to Carrie when asked if her attacker was in the courtroom.

00:07:39 Speaker_05
Yeah, of course they always do that. This was good enough for the judge. She was the only one that could pick him out of a lineup. And even that was kind of contested with the little foray with his brother and all of that.

00:07:51 Speaker_16
The fact Caroline had pointed out someone different a day prior didn't prevent him from binding carryover in each of the four cases.

00:07:59 Speaker_16
That meant, in the judge's eyes, enough evidence existed to proceed to the next step, arraignment, where Carey would enter his pleas. But first, there was the question of bail.

00:08:09 Speaker_16
Reed, the prosecutor, told the judge Carey's $105,000 bail amount wasn't good enough. The public would remain at risk so long as Carey was out of jail.

00:08:19 Speaker_15
The judge agreed and increased the bail. Judge Browning set a new bail at $135,000. That again comes from a journal Kerry was keeping as all this was going down.

00:08:31 Speaker_16
I've made a couple references to it now, and you're probably wondering how I know what Kerry wrote. So let me tell you how I got my hands on the journal. Ogden Police had arrested Kerry on suspicion of rape on May 8th.

00:08:42 Speaker_16
He'd bailed out of jail on the 9th, then been re-arrested on the 12th. Cary had bailed out for a second time on the 16th.

00:08:50 Speaker_15
May 16th. Got out of Weber County Jail. Dad and Mom picked me up. It was after Cary bailed out the second time he started jotting notes in this journal. May 18th.

00:09:01 Speaker_16
At 6.35, I left for the college. He chronicled where he went and what he did in the days leading up to his preliminary hearing.

00:09:08 Speaker_15
A lot of it's honestly pretty dull. Arrived at the college at 6.50 AM. parked in rear of heat plant. But there are bits that are more illuminating.

00:09:21 Speaker_16
Kerry wrote about how he had worked with his attorney to set up having his brother and cousin in the lineup.

00:09:27 Speaker_15
Went with Kevin Sullivan to his office. Question, Jack and Dave in the lineup? What time and where?

00:09:34 Speaker_16
Those words are why I can tell you Kerry had engineered this bit of subterfuge. Carey also wrote about reuniting with a woman named Shauna Hall after he got out of jail.

00:09:46 Speaker_15
Shauna brought me out to TJ's at 5.30. I watched a National Geographic TV show on Channel 22. About crocodiles. I mentioned Shauna in the last episode.

00:09:57 Speaker_16
Carey had met her through one of his lingerie survey phone calls, and to the best of my knowledge, they had started dating around October of 1986, a year after Cherie Warren's disappearance.

00:10:10 Speaker_16
Carrie and Shawna had discussed marriage just weeks later, even though Shawna was at that time married. Shawna had separated from her husband in March of 87, working toward a goal of marrying Carrie.

00:10:23 Speaker_16
His arrest in the Ogden City rapist investigation two months later hadn't dissuaded her. To the contrary, she even bought Carrie a car while he was out on bail.

00:10:34 Speaker_15
If the 1973 red VW doesn't turn out to be sound, Shawna Hall reserves the right to a full refund.

00:10:41 Speaker_16
Shawna was in deep. Most of Kerry's writings I've referenced so far this season came from papers seized by police during the two searches of his apartment.

00:10:52 Speaker_16
But this journal covered a time after those searches, as Kerry and his parents were in and out of court, arguing over bail.

00:10:59 Speaker_15
God only knows I'll probably never get out of jail. It would be a miracle. As I mentioned a couple minutes ago, the judge had upped the bail amount after the preliminary hearing. May 29. We're trying to arrange bail.

00:11:13 Speaker_15
I'm going to try to sell all of my furniture." Carey's furniture wasn't worth $135,000.

00:11:18 Speaker_16
He landed back in jail. He was in from May 29th to July 9th. Carrie's girlfriend-slash-fiancée Shawna took care of his financial affairs during that time, and she took custody of his journal. Someone broke into Shawna's house that summer.

00:11:39 Speaker_16
A South Ogden police sergeant named Brad Birch went to investigate. Shawna reportedly told him she believed her estranged husband, Roger Hall, was responsible.

00:11:49 Speaker_16
You might remember from the last episode, Roger had filed a civil lawsuit against Carrie, accusing him of luring his wife Shawna into infidelity.

00:11:58 Speaker_16
Shawna gave Sergeant Brad Birch a pile of papers, reportedly saying she thought her estranged husband Roger had rifled through them, looking for evidence for his lawsuit. She wanted police to fingerprint the papers and arrest Roger for burglary.

00:12:11 Speaker_16
Sergeant Birch had taken the pile of papers back to South Ogden Police Headquarters. He looked through it. He saw business cards, phone bills, and pay stubs, some in Carrie Hartman's name.

00:12:24 Speaker_16
This is what's sometimes known in the sports world as an unforced error, or to use the modern slang, a cell phone, a mistake inflicted by and upon oneself. But it was a stroke of luck for police.

00:12:40 Speaker_16
Sergeant Birch picked up his phone and called Ogden Police Detective Chris Zimmerman.

00:12:45 Speaker_14
I went to South Ogden Police Department on July 15, 1987 and read through the files.

00:12:51 Speaker_16
These are Zimmerman's words from a warrant he wrote targeting Carey's journal.

00:12:55 Speaker_14
There was a brown, spiral-type paper notebook that was being used as a diary, listing dates on each page and events that happened on that day.

00:13:04 Speaker_14
The events included the writer of the diary being arrested, the times he spent in jail, speaking with his attorney, Kevin Sullivan, and getting Jack Hartman and Dave Hartman to be in the lineup he had to be in.

00:13:16 Speaker_16
Zimmerman read Carey's comment about how his cousin David had saved his buns at the lineup.

00:13:22 Speaker_14
I feel this could be incriminating evidence on Kerry Hartman, and I have probable cause to believe the diary was written by Kerry Hartman, and it contains evidence of illegal conduct.

00:13:32 Speaker_16
Incriminating. Because why would Kerry have gone to the trouble of having lookalikes in the lineup unless he was afraid the woman on the other side of the glass was going to identify him?

00:13:44 Speaker_16
A judge signed the warrant, allowing Zimmerman to take the journal. That's how it ended up in the hands of Ogden police. I wanted to know what secrets it might hold about Shuri Warren, so I went looking for it more than 30 years later.

00:13:59 Speaker_16
Cracking Kerry Hartman's diary for the first time in decades wasn't the revelatory experience I had hoped, but it's interesting for what it doesn't say.

00:14:09 Speaker_16
There's not one mention in those pages of Shuri Warren, even though Kerry was writing during the period police were searching around Qazi Reservoir for the body reported by the anonymous caller.

00:14:22 Speaker_16
The journal reveals as police were hunting for Sheree, Carey was watching Star Search and Hollywood Insider and arranging to have his cousin impersonate him at the lineup.

00:14:37 Speaker_16
Weber County Attorney Reed Richards had faced a choice during the summer of 1987. Should he go full throttle on all four of the sexual assault cases he had filed against Carey Hartman simultaneously, or should he take them on one at a time?

00:14:51 Speaker_05
Well, there are a couple of thoughts that come into play. The evidence certainly is part of it.

00:14:56 Speaker_16
So let's talk about evidence in cases of rape and sexual assault. Ogden Police Detective Shane Miner had interacted with some of the women in the Ogden City rapist cases.

00:15:07 Speaker_18
You know, to see that look on their face and to see the fear that they had, when you see that, you begin to understand better their lack of wanting to come forward with it.

00:15:21 Speaker_16
In spite of that fear, each of the four women Carrie had been charged with assaulting had undergone physical exams following their attacks.

00:15:28 Speaker_16
Evidence gathered from those forensic exams, what's sometimes called the rape kit, can include clothing, bedding, swabs of body cavities, hair comings, fingernail scrapings, and bodily fluids.

00:15:41 Speaker_18
At that time, you didn't have DNA like you have today, so there's been a lot of advancements made in that.

00:15:48 Speaker_16
DNA today enables forensic scientists to identify people by their unique individual gene signatures. But that tech wasn't quite ready for the courtroom in 1987.

00:15:58 Speaker_16
Instead, forensic science in Carrie Hartman's case focused on serology, the study of bodily fluids.

00:16:06 Speaker_16
Serology in rape cases involved looking for blood, saliva, or semen on the body, clothing, or bedding of a victim, then comparing that against samples taken from a suspect. I know this is dry and sciency, but trust me, it's important.

00:16:20 Speaker_16
If a suspect and victim had different blood types, and fluids matching the suspect's type were found on the victim, it could suggest, but not prove, the suspect had had physical contact with the victim.

00:16:34 Speaker_16
Utah State Crime Lab tested the evidence gathered in the four cases for which Carrie was charged. I have those reports. They show two of the women had type A blood.

00:16:43 Speaker_16
The other two were type O. Vaginal swabs from all four also revealed the presence of sperm. Reed, the prosecutor, asked the court to compel Carey to provide a semen sample for comparison.

00:16:56 Speaker_16
Carey's attorney, Kevin Sullivan, told Reed his client was willing to provide the semen sample. They were confident it would exonerate Carey, because as you might remember, Carey had had a vasectomy. That meant his semen shouldn't contain any sperm.

00:17:10 Speaker_16
So the logic went, Carey couldn't be the rapist because the lab had found sperm in all four rape kits. Kevin wanted Reed's word he'd drop the charges if forensic analysis of Carrie's semen sample excluded him as the rapist.

00:17:26 Speaker_16
Reed agreed to drop the charges if... That's what the evidence showed, and he put that promise in writing. Sure enough, there were no sperm cells in Carey's semen. But for Reed, that wasn't enough to exclude Carey as the suspect. Here's why.

00:17:42 Speaker_16
The crime lab had also determined Carey had type B blood and had found evidence of type B blood in one of the rape kits. Caroline's.

00:17:51 Speaker_05
So even without DNA, we had a very unusual type of blood that was found inside of the rape kit, which I thought was pretty good evidence.

00:17:59 Speaker_16
The lab didn't specify if Carrie's blood was B positive or B negative. When I talked to Reed, he remembered it as B negative. But I have some documents that suggest it could be B positive. The important takeaway here is both B-types are less common.

00:18:14 Speaker_16
The American Red Cross says only about one out of every ten people have either B-positive or B-negative blood.

00:18:20 Speaker_05
So when you've got the identification and you've got the blood type and then you've got the confession or statements that he made to Zimmerman, that was clearly the best case.

00:18:29 Speaker_16
Reed decided to take Caroline's case to trial. He put the other three cases he had filed against Carey on hold. Kerry's defense attorney, Kevin Sullivan, didn't like this at all.

00:18:39 Speaker_16
He told the judge the lack of sperm in Kerry's semen sample proved Kerry hadn't committed the rape. Kevin filed paperwork in court accusing Reed of acting in bad faith.

00:18:49 Speaker_16
Kevin also tried to have Kerry's statement to Detective Chris Zimmerman on the day of his arrest barred from evidence. He said Zimmerman hadn't advised Kerry of his Miranda rights as they were driving around to the homes of the various women.

00:19:02 Speaker_16
Miranda rights include the right to remain silent, the right to have an attorney present during questioning, and so on. The court held a hearing on this days before the trial.

00:19:11 Speaker_16
The prosecution pointed out Carey had gone through specific training on Miranda rights when he had signed on to the Ogden Police Reserves. In other words, Carey knew his rights well.

00:19:22 Speaker_16
Carey's friend Dave Moore, the guy who owned the sewing machine repair shop, was in the courtroom that day as well.

00:19:29 Speaker_17
One of his victims, according to one of the detectives, he got the name and address from my store he happened to be in. She brought in a sewing machine and he copied down her name, address, and that was one of the break-ins. I had to have heard that.

00:19:45 Speaker_17
Yeah, it was tough.

00:19:48 Speaker_16
Prosecutor Reed Richards put Dave Moore on the stand and asked him to describe the conversation he had had with Carey after Carey's arrest. We talked about that in episode four.

00:19:58 Speaker_17
He put you in a tough position. He did. Extremely tough.

00:20:02 Speaker_16
As a refresher, David called the jail and asked to speak with Carey. Carey had allegedly come on the line and told Dave he had done some bad things, felt ashamed about it, and believed the Ogden detectives were just trying to help.

00:20:15 Speaker_16
Dave told me Reid seemed to sense his discomfort over testifying against his friend Kerry.

00:20:21 Speaker_17
He says, Dave, this is probably the toughest thing you ever had to do, isn't it? And I said, yeah, definitely. And then he basically excused me. But as I was walking by, Kerry and his attorney, Kerry says, why, Dave, why?

00:20:34 Speaker_17
And his attorney says, he didn't have a choice. I'm assuming you got subpoenaed for that. I did. So you literally did not have a choice. To be honest with you, there are so many news trucks out front. I just got the heck out of there.

00:20:47 Speaker_17
I didn't want anything to do with it.

00:20:51 Speaker_16
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00:21:02 Speaker_16
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00:21:09 Speaker_16
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00:21:20 Speaker_16
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00:21:30 Speaker_16
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00:21:42 Speaker_16
Visit BetterHelp.com slash cold today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash cold. Kerry Hartman's trial for the attack on Caroline began on September 15, 1987.

00:22:03 Speaker_16
The prosecution and defense settled on a jury of five men and three women. Kerry strode into the courthouse with his attorney the next morning. TV news cameras were there. So was Kerry's reporter friend, Larry Lewis.

00:22:16 Speaker_03
Prosecutors say their key evidence in the case against Hartman are statements he made to police at the time of his arrest, information from police lab tests, and a victim's testimony.

00:22:26 Speaker_16
If you're wondering why Kerry's personal friend was reporting on his trial, so am I. More on that in a minute.

00:22:34 Speaker_16
Carey wore a tan suit, was clean-shaven, had lightened his hair, and he donned a pair of oversized glasses with smoked lenses once seated at the defense table.

00:22:45 Speaker_16
This all had the effect of making him look significantly different than he had a year and a half earlier, when the attack on Caroline had taken place. The Chameleon Act didn't faze Caroline.

00:22:55 Speaker_03
This morning in court, the victim identified Kerry Hartman as the rapist. County attorney Reed Richards told the jury that Hartman's own statements to police proves he's guilty.

00:23:04 Speaker_03
He said Hartman told investigators facts only the rapist could have known, and Richards said evidence found on the victim will link Hartman to the rape.

00:23:12 Speaker_16
The judge had rejected the defense's request to toss out Kerry's incriminating comments to Ogden police. Sheree Warren's mom, Mary Sorenson, sat in the courtroom as Caroline testified.

00:23:24 Speaker_16
She stared at Carey from across the room and noted anytime he glanced her direction, he refused to make eye contact. Mary received a jolt when Caroline said the man who had raped her had told her, I've killed before and can kill again.

00:23:41 Speaker_03
But defense attorney Kevin Sullivan said this is a case of mistaken identity.

00:23:45 Speaker_03
He said the victim first identified another man as her attacker during a police lineup and says she changed her mind about who raped her after seeing a TV news report about Hartman's arrest.

00:23:56 Speaker_03
But the key evidence in the defense case is the medical exam of the victim after the rape. It showed the presence of sperm.

00:24:02 Speaker_03
The defense says since Hartman had a vasectomy several years ago and is physically unable to produce sperm, there's no evidence that Hartman raped the victim in this case.

00:24:11 Speaker_03
The victim testified that she had sexual relations with another man a few days before she was raped, and because of that, the prosecution argues that the medical report does not rule out Hartman as the rapist.

00:24:22 Speaker_16
That last bit deserves a bit more explanation. Caroline had met up with her estranged husband at a motel a few days before she was attacked. At the trial, her estranged husband testified they had had sex.

00:24:34 Speaker_16
That meant he could have been the source of the sperm detected in the rape kit. But the estranged husband didn't have B-type blood. Remember, the crime lab had found evidence of B-type blood in swabs taken from Caroline's body.

00:24:48 Speaker_16
And the semen sample Carrie Hartman had provided showed he had B-type blood. Detective Chris Zimmerman took the stand and described how Carey had identified Caroline's house as they had driven around Ogden together.

00:25:01 Speaker_16
Carey's attorney, Kevin Sullivan, challenged Zimmerman, suggesting this tactic had been a breach of police protocol.

00:25:08 Speaker_16
He insinuated Zimmerman had a history of violating procedure, noting the detective had once issued a phony parking ticket to President Ronald Reagan. Kay Lynn, the woman who'd rented the basement of her house to Carrie, testified too.

00:25:21 Speaker_16
You heard Kay Lynn's words read by a voice actor in the last episode. She's the woman who described hearing an argument between Carrie and Sheree Warren, then a thump, and all going quiet. She had thought it had happened the night Sheree disappeared.

00:25:35 Speaker_16
Kay Lynn wasn't asked to tell that story from the witness stand. Instead, she talked about the odd schedule Carrie had kept in the months afterward.

00:25:43 Speaker_00
There were times when he would leave at odd hours. It would seem like he'd get a call or just up and leave after midnight. It would be one or two in the morning and he would return an hour or two later.

00:25:54 Speaker_16
This comes from a formal statement Kaelin provided to Ogden police, read by a voice actor. In it, Kaelin called Carrie a Nighthawk.

00:26:03 Speaker_00
He never seemed to sleep. He'd get up as I was going out jogging about 5.30 a.m. and be gone to work when I'd come in about 6 or 6.30. I could never survive on the sleep he got.

00:26:17 Speaker_16
Kerry testified in his own defense. He talked about his interrogation by Ogden Police Detective John Stubbs the day of his arrest. He said Stubbs had had an explicit photo Kerry had taken of an Ogden police officer's wife.

00:26:31 Speaker_16
That photo would come out of the Supper Club album Detective Jack Bell had found in Carey's apartment while serving one of the search warrants.

00:26:38 Speaker_15
She was a woman I had an affair with.

00:26:41 Speaker_16
The Salt Lake Tribune quoted Carey as saying from the witness stand. Kerry said Detective Stubbs had threatened to share that embarrassing information with Kerry's family if he didn't confess.

00:26:53 Speaker_16
Kerry contended he had held his ground, even in the face of that threat.

00:26:57 Speaker_15
I had never seen the victim. I don't know her. At no time did I ever have sex with her.

00:27:04 Speaker_16
As for his appearance at the lineup, Carey explained he had shaved off his mustache after getting out of jail because he'd felt disgusted at how dirty the jail was and he wanted to be clean.

00:27:15 Speaker_15
My parents taught me that cleanliness is next to godliness.

00:27:19 Speaker_16
None of this swayed the jury. They deliberated just over three hours before returning a guilty verdict.

00:27:25 Speaker_03
After the verdict, Richard says it was Hartman's own statements that helped prosecutors win their conviction.

00:27:31 Speaker_06
Without the confession, you can narrow it down to a small group of people, but probably not to one person. So I think you probably would not be able to make the case without the confession.

00:27:40 Speaker_03
The defense contended all along those statements were not a confession, but that police were hearing what they wanted. They were damaging, but as you say, they weren't actually confessions. They were more in the way of statements, as our argument was.

00:27:53 Speaker_03
I think it was more of a misinterpretation of what was said. Again, the reporter in this clip is Larry Lewis. The guilty verdict brought tears to family members and even some jurors in the courtroom.

00:28:04 Speaker_03
The victim agreed to shed her cloak of anonymity and talked with reporters about her feelings, she said, as a way to help other rape victims.

00:28:11 Speaker_11
I think if I have the strength to finally be on camera, that maybe it'll give other people strength through me.

00:28:18 Speaker_16
This KSLTV story showed Caroline's face, but it didn't identify her by name. And that's partly why I'm still using a pseudonym for her. Caroline had blazed a trail the other women might follow.

00:28:31 Speaker_03
How about the other victims? What would you tell them?

00:28:33 Speaker_11
I'll be praying for you and I'll be there to support you.

00:28:36 Speaker_03
She said now she can move her children back to the state and begin a new life.

00:28:46 Speaker_16
You can't see it, obviously, since this is a podcast, but in that TV news clip, Larry Lewis stands holding a microphone in front of Caroline.

00:28:55 Speaker_16
I think to myself when I watch it, did she know the reporter she was talking to was a personal friend of the man a jury had just convicted of raping her? In the last episode, I took you to Larry Lewis's doorstep.

00:29:08 Speaker_16
— You and Kerry were friends back at the time Shuri Warren disappeared, and you were involved in covering his rape trial in 1987.

00:29:15 Speaker_16
— I wanted to talk to Larry not only about how Detective Jack Bell had questioned him in the Shuri Warren investigation, but also about the ethics and optics of his reporting on Kerry's rape case.

00:29:27 Speaker_16
— I need to know if that was disclosed to KSL, that you had a friendship with him at the time you were covering that story.

00:29:33 Speaker_04
I disclosed that I knew Carrie, or I was an acquaintance of Carrie, while I was covering that trial. Yes. Okay.

00:29:42 Speaker_16
An acquaintance. I asked to whom specifically Larry had disclosed. He said to KSL's assignment desk editor.

00:29:50 Speaker_04
And at the end of that trial, my assignment editor, my supervisor, said I did a good job in being neutral in covering that case. Okay. And we'll ask him.

00:30:00 Speaker_06
Yeah.

00:30:02 Speaker_16
I did ask. I called Larry's former assignment editor, who told me he didn't remember having this conversation about Larry's relationship with Carrie Hartman. I went up the management ladder, the former news director.

00:30:14 Speaker_16
That person also didn't remember Larry Lewis disclosing to KSL he'd had a personal relationship with Carrie Hartman. A relationship Larry repeatedly minimized during our brief conversation.

00:30:28 Speaker_04
When you say friendship, I think that's my friendship with him. It was more of an acquaintance. We played handball and poker a couple of times. And that's as far as it went.

00:30:39 Speaker_16
The Society of Professional Journalists publishes a code of ethics for reporters. It says journalists should avoid conflicts of interest, real or perceived, and disclose unavoidable conflicts.

00:30:52 Speaker_16
In Larry Lewis's case, there were two disclosures to consider, one to KSL, his employer, and the other to the public who might see his stories. I can say with certainty, Larry didn't disclose his connection to Carrie Hartman to the viewers.

00:31:07 Speaker_16
When I raised this point to Larry, he challenged me by asking if I believed his stories about the trial were fair. I told him as far as I could tell the stories were factually accurate, but that didn't absolve him of a possible perception of bias.

00:31:23 Speaker_04
I guess you could view it that way. I mean, there are lots of reporters who cover issues that they know because they have a personal involvement in that issue. That's what they call specialists.

00:31:36 Speaker_16
There's another line in that code of ethics that tells reporters to expose unethical conduct in journalism, including within their own organizations.

00:31:44 Speaker_16
So when I learned Larry Lewis had a personal relationship with Carrie Hartman and didn't disclose that fact to the public when reporting on Carrie's rape case, I felt a duty to address it.

00:31:56 Speaker_04
Just be fair. I mean, you know, I know you think you might have something interesting for me, but I'm just a citizen. And as a reporter, I came forward to report what I knew. And I know you want it to be more interesting than that, and it's not.

00:32:14 Speaker_04
If you're going to be fair, you need to know that. Well, being fair is why I'm here on your doorstep asking the questions.

00:32:32 Speaker_16
Weber County Attorney Reed Richards had won a significant victory, securing a conviction against Carrie Hartman in one of the four rape cases.

00:32:40 Speaker_05
Then the question was, number one, do the other victims want to go forward? And for the most part, that was not what they wanted to do.

00:32:47 Speaker_05
They knew he was locked away and they didn't want to go through the harassment of having to go through the questioning and the public scrutiny and the newspaper articles and all the things that go with the rape prosecution.

00:32:58 Speaker_05
And the evidence in those cases was not as good. You didn't have the ID and you didn't have the blood.

00:33:02 Speaker_16
Reid asked the court to delay the three other trials until after sentencing in Caroline's case. The judge agreed and commissioned a pre-sentence report from an agency called Utah Adult Probation and Parole.

00:33:14 Speaker_16
A pre-sentence report's a summary of all available information about a criminal defendant a judge can use when deciding how harsh or lenient to be in imposing a sentence. A state investigator spent the next three weeks preparing the report.

00:33:28 Speaker_16
He reviewed the police records from Caroline's case, interviewed the detectives and attorneys, and drafted a synopsis.

00:33:36 Speaker_16
In Utah, pre-sentence reports are confidential because they often contain a great deal of sensitive personal information about offenders, their families, and victims.

00:33:46 Speaker_16
I've obtained a copy of Carey's, but I'm being selective about what I share from it. The report showed the investigator interviewed Carey himself, who again denied any sexual contact with Caroline, consensual or otherwise.

00:33:59 Speaker_16
Carey provided this written statement for the pre-sentence report.

00:34:07 Speaker_15
I have a lot of fears and apprehensions about being incarcerated for the charge that I've been convicted of. Kerry said he had only failed the two lie detector tests he had taken because of his anxieties.

00:34:18 Speaker_15
I made statements to Detective Zimmerman that I felt positively would prove my innocence. These statements were turned around and used against me. I'm completely innocent of these crimes.

00:34:29 Speaker_16
The investigator spoke with Caroline, who told him Kerry had taken everything from her. There's not a man, woman or child on earth safe when he is out on the streets, the report quoted Caroline as saying.

00:34:42 Speaker_16
The investigator spoke to Carrie's mom and dad, Donna and Bill Hartman. They said they'd been, quote, completely unaware of Carrie's history of making sexual phone calls. You and I know this was untrue.

00:34:56 Speaker_16
Heidi Posnien told us, in episode one, how Carey had tried to lure her up the canyon for that so-called date in 1971, but deputies intervened. Heidi's husband, John, had then confronted Carey's dad, Bill Hartman. They went to find his dad.

00:35:12 Speaker_16
the golf course, he was playing golf again. Bill Hartman told the investigator he didn't believe his son had committed any rapes. Bill planned to stand by Carrie. So too did Carrie's girlfriend-slash-fiancé, Shawna Hall.

00:35:26 Speaker_16
She reportedly told the investigator she believed Caroline was lying and insisted Carrie wasn't a violent person. Carey, for his part, told the investigator he worried over what might happen between he and Shawna going forward.

00:35:41 Speaker_15
I'm mentally and physically exhausted for worrying about my family, my son, my relationship with my fiance, and what will happen to these relationships. The investigator spoke to both of Carey's ex-wives.

00:35:54 Speaker_16
They painted a far different picture of how Carey acted in his relationships. They described detailed instances of physical and sexual abuse at Carey's hands. I already shared some of that in episode 1, so I won't repeat the stories here.

00:36:11 Speaker_16
The investigator wrote, it's quote, evident that the defendant is very intelligent and cunning, and because of this is probably more dangerous than if he were not so astute. He recommended the judge impose a maximum sentence.

00:36:38 Speaker_16
Kerry arrived at the Weber County Courthouse in Ogden for sentencing on November 2nd, 1987. He walked down the hallway in an orange jumpsuit and handcuffs, pausing to show a TV news camera a thick blue book he carried.

00:36:51 Speaker_03
Utah court rules annotated. Did you get that?

00:36:54 Speaker_16
The investigator presented his findings to the judge, who then handed down the sentence. Two terms of 15 years to life and one term of five to life, all to run concurrently at the same time. It was the most the judge could give.

00:37:07 Speaker_16
The sentence carried what's known as a minimum mandatory, meaning Carey couldn't get out until he had served at least 15 years. The earliest he could hope to leave prison would be sometime around 2003.

00:37:19 Speaker_05
And so that was pretty much the assumption of everyone, that he'll do 15 years.

00:37:23 Speaker_16
Prosecutor Reed Richards had secured the strongest possible penalty. He tried to suppress a smile when speaking to reporters in this tape from after the sentencing hearing.

00:37:32 Speaker_06
Because of the type of situation that this young lady was in, the vulnerability that she had, the other things in his background that really couldn't come out at trial and appropriately did not come out at trial, but are appropriate in the sentence, I think the sentence was well pondered upon by the judge and appropriate.

00:37:49 Speaker_16
But then, Reed still had to decide what to do with the other three cases, which were still waiting to go to trial. The three women remained reluctant, not wanting to go through what Caroline had on the witness stand.

00:38:03 Speaker_16
Reed told them he couldn't promise Carey would spend any more than 15 years in prison because that decision would be up to the Utah Board of Pardons and Parole.

00:38:13 Speaker_05
And they can keep him as long as they want to keep him. But if you want to move ahead, we're very happy to do that. And I don't remember any of them being anxious to move ahead.

00:38:22 Speaker_16
Reid told the victims if they chose not to go to trial, police reports from their cases would still be sent to the parole board.

00:38:30 Speaker_05
Once you've got the conviction, you can say, gee, the Board of Pardons will know what your report is. It's not a conviction because they have to realize that maybe you could have been mistaken, but at least they're going to know what you said.

00:38:44 Speaker_05
And they're going to know the evidence in this case and the confessions that he made and so forth.

00:38:49 Speaker_16
The three women confirmed they didn't want to testify. Reed promised to seek another solution.

00:38:56 Speaker_05
I think the decision to probably not go ahead on those others was a good decision from the victim's standpoint and from the case overall.

00:39:03 Speaker_16
Reed proposed a plea deal to Kerry's defense attorney, Kevin Sullivan. He'd reduce the charges in one of the three remaining cases, and if Kerry pleaded guilty to it, he'd drop the charges in the other two.

00:39:17 Speaker_16
Kevin said he'd take the offer to Carrie, but they'd need some time to think it over. Meantime, Reed wondered what to do with the Cherie Warren case.

00:39:27 Speaker_05
It's much better in a murder case to have a dead body than to just be saying she disappeared and we think he killed her. So the decision was made, let's keep investigating it and he's not going anywhere.

00:39:37 Speaker_05
Let's see if we can find some additional information. Maybe we can find the body.

00:39:41 Speaker_16
There were new clues in the search for Sheree. Police had subpoenaed Carey's time cards from Weber State College to see what he'd been doing on the dates of the various rapes.

00:39:51 Speaker_16
The college had turned over records that also covered the time of Sheree's disappearance. I've reviewed them myself. They show Carey had taken the day after Sheree's disappearance off, marking it as eight hours of vacation time.

00:40:03 Speaker_16
which means Carey potentially had the opportunity to take Cherie's car to Vegas the night of her disappearance and return to Utah the next morning without raising suspicion at work.

00:40:14 Speaker_05
I don't know why a guy from here would take a car and dump it somewhere in Las Vegas. That's kind of weird.

00:40:19 Speaker_16
Carey had taken another eight hours of vacation time the following Sunday, the day the elk hunting guide, Fred Johns, had reported seeing him on the mountain behind Kazi Reservoir.

00:40:29 Speaker_05
There wasn't really a motive there. Why would you kill your girlfriend?

00:40:32 Speaker_16
The two ladies who had lived upstairs from Carey, and who'd reported hearing a loud argument followed by a thump, had suggested a possible answer.

00:40:40 Speaker_16
Cherie might have learned of Carey's activities with other women, confronted him, then died in a burst of reactionary violence. But Reed wasn't going to charge Carey based on this unproven theory.

00:40:52 Speaker_05
Well, yeah, you have to first get over the idea that she may not be dead. And that's probably, if I were the defense attorney, an angle that I would push pretty hard.

00:41:02 Speaker_05
I'd talk about the trouble she was having at home, the dispute she had with her ex-husband. She may have had other family problems. And why not? Find a new boyfriend or just disappear and start a new life.

00:41:14 Speaker_05
So really, if you charge a case like that, and if you can get through the preliminary hearing where you've got to show probable cause, then you're ending up with a trial. And if you go to trial and don't get a conviction, you're all done.

00:41:27 Speaker_05
You've got double jeopardy that steps in. And even if you get perfect proof later on, you're dead. So there's really an incentive to not do it until you think you've got enough to really convict. And that's why it was not filed back then.

00:41:43 Speaker_16
The stories of Kaylynn and Mary, the women who had lived above Carey in October of 85, suggested Cherie might have made it to Carey's apartment on the night she disappeared.

00:41:52 Speaker_16
Former Ogden police detective Shane Miner told me that this once again raised a question for police. Who had jurisdiction? Because Carey lived in Ogden. So it would have made it an Ogden case.

00:42:05 Speaker_16
Ogden Police did go back and check Carey's basement apartment for any sign of Cherie Warren's blood, but they didn't find anything.

00:42:12 Speaker_18
This was information we got two years after the fact, and he had moved from that apartment.

00:42:17 Speaker_16
Ogden Police hadn't kept any files or evidence on Cherie's case up to that point, leaving the task to Roy Police Detective Jack Bell.

00:42:24 Speaker_16
But Shane and his fellow Ogden detectives, Chris Zimmerman and John Stubbs, found themselves sucked into the Cherie Warren case through their work on the Ogden City Rapist investigation.

00:42:35 Speaker_18
So there was a case number generated and reports were written under that.

00:42:38 Speaker_16
The Ogden detectives had interviewed several of Kerry's friends, members of the so-called Supper Club, and filed reports about those interviews in their department's record system. Copies of those reports did not make their way back to Jack Bell.

00:42:53 Speaker_16
the Cherie Warren investigation had effectively forked.

00:42:57 Speaker_18
And then there was another component to that was Salt Lake was having a lot of things happening down there.

00:43:02 Speaker_18
So when she went missing out of Salt Lake, I think that got grouped into a bunch of unsolved stuff in the Salt Lake area at that period of time.

00:43:11 Speaker_16
In the last couple episodes, we talked about how Salt Lake City Police had tied three unsolved murders of young women to a single handgun. They had formed a task force to hunt a suspected serial killer.

00:43:23 Speaker_16
Cherie's name had ended up on the task force's list of possible victims since she'd last been seen in Salt Lake.

00:43:30 Speaker_18
And that was it. There was no other connections down there other than that.

00:43:33 Speaker_16
But Ogden and Roy Police had sent a couple pieces of evidence to Salt Lake, including one of the psychic letters I mentioned in a previous episode.

00:43:41 Speaker_16
As a result, bits and pieces of the Cherie Warren case were scattered across three police departments that weren't always great about talking to one another.

00:43:50 Speaker_16
Did that cause any issues for you as you kind of set out to pull all the information from the different places together? Yeah, kind of.

00:44:00 Speaker_16
But Shane Miner told me the bigger issue for police investigating the Cherie Warren case at that point was they hadn't been able to challenge Kerry Hartman about any of the new evidence that had emerged since his arrest.

00:44:12 Speaker_16
Because Carey lawyered up and invoked his right to remain silent. Yeah, I mean, what did he have to say? We don't know other than that story that he gave to Neumeier. Michael Neumeier was Carey's private investigator.

00:44:26 Speaker_16
You heard Carey's statement to Neumeier in Episode 3.

00:44:29 Speaker_18
Which is a lot of what his thoughts are, but it doesn't tell you anything as far as what's going on with him and Cherie at the time she went missing.

00:44:44 Speaker_16
Kerry Hartman arrived at the Utah State Prison in November of 87 to begin serving his sentence.

00:44:49 Speaker_18
But then once he goes there, they classify him and they decide where he goes. And that's where it ended up. Department of Corrections problem at that point. Yes.

00:44:59 Speaker_16
Prison staff put Kerry through their classification protocol. It assigned him medium security status and listed him as Sigma, a designation for inmates with calm, easygoing personalities.

00:45:11 Speaker_16
Carey immediately requested a transfer to a small jail in rural Sanpete County. He told prison staff his life would be at risk if they kept him at the main prison because he was a former police officer.

00:45:23 Speaker_16
I've never been to prison, so I'm not sure if two years as a volunteer unpaid reserve officer is enough to get a person blacklisted by the bad guys. But the newspaper stories about Carey's trial had identified him as a former cop.

00:45:37 Speaker_16
The Utah Department of Corrections approved Carey's request and moved him to the Sanpete County Jail in the interest of his own safety. This was a coup for Carey.

00:45:47 Speaker_16
In Sanpete County, he'd live around fewer serious felons, under less strict supervision than at the state prison. His girlfriend-slash-fiancee, Shawna Hall, soon moved to the town of Manti in Sanpete County so she could visit Carey more regularly.

00:46:03 Speaker_16
They still intended to marry. The Department of Corrections shipped Carey back to the Weber County Courthouse a few months into his stay for a plea hearing. Carey had decided to take the deal Prosecutor Reed Richards had offered.

00:46:18 Speaker_16
The judge asked if he had, in fact, committed the rape in question. Carey said, quote, yes, sir. He received a sentence of five years to life, but the clock would run at the same time as his other sentence, meaning no additional prison time.

00:46:36 Speaker_16
Still, Reid told the TV news cameras it felt like a good result.

00:46:40 Speaker_06
And probably the overriding consideration was that we had three gals who didn't really want to go in and tell the whole world the story of what had happened to them.

00:46:50 Speaker_06
And we were able to avoid that, and I think that's maybe the greatest victory of obtaining a plea.

00:46:55 Speaker_16
Ogden police were not similarly satisfied. They still had a pile of unsolved rape cases they believed, but couldn't prove, Kerry might have committed. But you're working off of that limited information and trying to make something out of it.

00:47:10 Speaker_16
Detectives like Shane Miner wondered if, now that Cary was in custody for at least 15 years, he might be more willing to talk. They decided to pay Cary a visit.

00:47:22 Speaker_18
I've done that similar thing before. Sometimes it works out, most of the time it doesn't.

00:47:26 Speaker_16
Shane Miner and Chris Zimmerman made the three-hour drive from Ogden to Manti to visit Cary at the Sandpete County Jail.

00:47:34 Speaker_18
We went down there to talk to him and

00:47:37 Speaker_16
He recognizes both of you guys. Yeah. Zimmerman told Carey he wanted to talk about the unsolved rapes. Carey declined. Okay. Zimmerman instead suggested they talk about the disappearance of Sheree Warren.

00:47:50 Speaker_18
There wasn't no conversation. He just seen who it was and turned around and walked out and didn't say nothing to us.

00:47:56 Speaker_16
The Ogden Standard-Examiner published an article about this fruitless effort to interview Carey. A clipping of the article found its way to Cherie's friend and former co-worker, Pam Volk.

00:48:06 Speaker_09
I don't remember who it was. I think it might have been my mom sent me an article from the paper. Because, you know, this was before the internet, this was before cell phones, all that kind of stuff.

00:48:14 Speaker_16
You might remember Pam from episode one. She had dated Carey herself before he had started seeing Cherie. Pam later married a German man, and they had moved overseas in 86. Pam hadn't imagined Carrie could have been a suspect in Cherie's disappearance.

00:48:30 Speaker_09
Yeah, no, I learned that. In fact, I learned that when we were in Germany.

00:48:33 Speaker_16
Pam had stayed in touch with Carrie by letter prior to his arrest. She had asked for updates on the search for Cherie. Carrie's replies came to an abrupt stop after May of 87.

00:48:44 Speaker_09
And I was like, holy s**t, what have I done, you know? What kind of a person was I to take somebody like that. It made me feel really bad. Sorry. But I also felt really bad because that's how Sheree and he got together. And in the time since, I have

00:49:14 Speaker_09
after I realized what kind of a person he is. I think that he might have been the one that did something to Sheree. I just, but I don't know why, you know? I don't know what would make him do that, you know?

00:49:27 Speaker_09
Because he'd never, I mean, all these women that he raped, he'd never, you know, killed anybody, you know? So yeah, that was a rough time.

00:50:02 Speaker_16
Carrie Hartman's fiancé, Shawna Hall, finalized her divorce from her husband in early 1988. I'm not sure exactly when or how, but Carrie would later say he and Shawna were married at the Sand Peak County Jail, where he was housed.

00:50:16 Speaker_16
Around that same time, Kerry received a letter from his childhood best friend, Steve Bartlett. Here's what it said.

00:50:23 Speaker_13
This may be the hardest letter I ever write. Of course, I've been reading the newspaper and watching television, so I know what you've been doing. Kerry, why, why, why?

00:50:35 Speaker_16
I mentioned Bartlett in episode three. He was the special investigator for the Salt Lake County District Attorney's Office.

00:50:41 Speaker_13
I keep remembering all the great things we did together growing up. I knew we would always be friends and we could talk to each other no matter what happened in life.

00:50:50 Speaker_16
Cariad claimed to have called Bartlett shortly after Cherie Warren disappeared and asked for his help in looking for her around Salt Lake City.

00:50:58 Speaker_13
As a Christian, I still want to know what happened to Cherie. So if you have the guts to tell me, I will locate her and put an end to her family's agony.

00:51:07 Speaker_13
I can't make promises, but I am interested in finding her and not causing you any more legal problems."

00:51:13 Speaker_16
A magnanimous offer and show of friendship from Steve Bartlett.

00:51:17 Speaker_15
Here's Carrie's reply. Steve, you are my oldest friend. I forgive you your insecurities toward me. I've never lied to you. Never. And I'm going to tell you how it is, okay? All you hear or read is s***.

00:51:31 Speaker_16
Carey went on to attack the evidence in the rape case. He said he had never confessed, never been picked out of a lineup, and couldn't possibly have been responsible.

00:51:41 Speaker_16
The rape kit evidence had included sperm, which he didn't produce because of his vasectomy.

00:51:46 Speaker_15
Next, I have no, zero knowledge of Cherie's whereabouts, then or now. End of story. I loved her, Steve.

00:51:54 Speaker_16
Carey included a newspaper clipping with his letter. It described a home invasion rape that had occurred in Ogden weeks earlier, long after Carrie was in custody. It wasn't the only one.

00:52:07 Speaker_15
They had kept happening. How about the 15 attacks in Ogden, in the same area, same MO, while I was in the Weber County Jail? How about the five attacks about two weeks ago? Same exact everything. They are still happening.

00:52:25 Speaker_15
Help me by finding the asshole out there and getting the truth out of him. Kerry wasn't making this up.

00:52:32 Speaker_16
Former Ogden Police Detective Shane Miner told me Carey's arrest had not put an end to the string of home invasion rapes plaguing the city, which didn't make sense.

00:52:42 Speaker_18
It started to become obvious we're dealing with a couple of different people.

00:52:45 Speaker_16
There were two Ogden City rapists. This second serial rapist operated in a very similar manner, with some subtle differences.

00:52:57 Speaker_18
You started to see two different type of M.O.s developing. One maybe more verbally violent. The other was more violent. More physically violent, if that makes sense to you.

00:53:08 Speaker_16
This second serial rapist accelerated his attacks in early 88, assaulting three different women in the space of a single week that March. Detectives had believed Carriot stalked the women in his cases, most of whom lived near him.

00:53:23 Speaker_16
The second serial rapist seemed more random.

00:53:27 Speaker_18
He could park his car down at 10th and Wall and Ogden Avenue, but he would hit the opposite end of town, and he would be on foot all night long in the city.

00:53:37 Speaker_16
Police responded to the home of yet another victim on the morning of Saturday, April 2nd. They spotted a man acting suspicious nearby. They confronted and arrested him. Blaine Nelson, the second Ogden City rapist.

00:53:55 Speaker_16
Ogden Police Captain Marlon Balls described Blaine's methods to the news media.

00:54:00 Speaker_01
He looked for homes that were open during the early morning hours. If a female was alone inside the house, an opportunity presented itself and he sexually assaulted her.

00:54:12 Speaker_01
If she was not alone, there was a man present in the home, why a lot of times just money was stolen.

00:54:18 Speaker_16
Blaine and Carey's styles were similar enough to cause confusion. They even looked a bit alike, though Blaine was younger and thinner than Carey.

00:54:27 Speaker_05
Which one was the copycat of which one, I don't know.

00:54:30 Speaker_16
Weber County Attorney Reed Richards filed charges against Blaine in connection with four separate cases, far fewer than police believed he had committed.

00:54:38 Speaker_05
Reed told me Blaine was... Very candid and very willing to talk about what he'd done. He talked about the fact that after he'd commit these rapes, he'd actually hide close by because he wanted to watch all the action.

00:54:50 Speaker_16
Blaine even admitted he had followed the news coverage of Carrie Hartman's arrest almost a year earlier, and realized if he had stopped attacking women then, no one would look for him. Blaine returned to court two weeks later.

00:55:04 Speaker_16
Several of the women he had attacked were there too. One lunged at him as he walked down the hallway in handcuffs. Defense Attorney John Cain told reporters that day Blaine had wanted to clean his soul, even for crimes Ogden police didn't know about.

00:55:31 Speaker_02
He told the officers not only about incidents here in Weber County, but also down in Iron County, Box Elder County, states of Arizona and Wyoming. and he wanted to make a complete, clean breast of everything.

00:55:46 Speaker_16
Blaine pleaded guilty to the charges Prosecutor Reed Richards had filed against him.

00:55:50 Speaker_06
He's pled to 13 first-degree felonies. Nine of those carry a minimum mandatory prison term. You can't really get much more than that out of a person. You can only do so much time in prison.

00:56:01 Speaker_16
In exchange for the guilty pleas, Reed agreed not to file about 60 additional counts for other rapes he believed Blaine had committed.

00:56:11 Speaker_03
Blaine Nelson told state prosecutors, the judge, and the victims today he's willing to die if it would undo the pain he's inflicted.

00:56:19 Speaker_01
If God would take my life,

00:56:22 Speaker_07
and erase from the minds of the victims what they went through, I would die.

00:56:27 Speaker_16
KSLTV reporter Larry Lewis covered Blaine Nelson's case, just as he had with the other Ogden City rapist, his friend, Kerry Hartman. I feel good.

00:56:38 Speaker_07
I feel that I should do what they sentenced me with for what I've done.

00:56:41 Speaker_16
Blaine granted Larry a one-on-one interview following his sentencing.

00:56:46 Speaker_03
Nelson says his addiction to cocaine and pain pills drove him to burglarize homes looking for more drugs and then rape the women who lived there. Nelson hopes that by speaking out, he can stop others from making the mistakes he made.

00:56:59 Speaker_07
Drugs do make you do things that you're not aware of. They make your mind yield to temptations or Satan."

00:57:07 Speaker_16
Blaine had committed so many rapes, investigators doubted even he could keep them all straight. It suddenly made sense why young single women in Ogden had lived in such fear during the mid-80s.

00:57:21 Speaker_16
Blaine Nelson's tearful confession on television couldn't atone for the terror he had dealt to an entire generation of women. Every creak or groan in an otherwise quiet house at night might really have been the work of the Ogden City Rapist.

00:57:38 Speaker_16
But for Kerry Hartman, the admissions of Blaine Nelson were a godsend. He found in Blaine a perfect patsy, a scapegoat upon whom he could place all the blame for his crimes.

00:57:52 Speaker_16
Kerry again wrote to his old friend, the District Attorney's Special Investigator Steve Bartlett, to insist he had been framed.

00:58:01 Speaker_15
I did not do the crimes that I am here for. No way in hell. You have the option of believing the media and the police or me. Bartlett chose not to believe Kerry.

00:58:13 Speaker_13
Yes, there have been other attacks and rapes, and the suspects have been similar to you. The fact remains that you have been convicted based on evidence introduced. But there is a ton more evidence that the judge and jury never got to know about.

00:58:28 Speaker_16
And Bartlett brought up the matter of Sheree Warren. With everything that had come out about Carrie's abusive, manipulative treatment of women,

00:58:37 Speaker_16
Before, during, and after the time he had dated Cherie, how could he not be responsible for her disappearance?

00:58:45 Speaker_13
I also feel you are withholding what you really know about Cherie. Friends don't lie to friends, remember? But Kerry held fast to his denial.

00:58:57 Speaker_15
This is the truth. I have absolutely no knowledge of Cherie's whereabouts, nor do I have any knowledge of what happened to her. That is the truth.

00:59:10 Speaker_16
I don't know if Kerry Hartman ever truly loved Cherie Warren. They'd only dated for around six months, and Kerry had proposed marriage to his next girlfriend, Shauna Hall, within about a year of Cherie's disappearance.

00:59:24 Speaker_16
But his jailhouse wedding to Shawna in early 1988 imploded almost immediately. Prison records show Shawna sent Carey a Dear John letter after only a few months of their union.

00:59:36 Speaker_16
I can't find a court record for a divorce, which means their marriage was probably annulled. There are only a few reasons under Utah law that could have happened.

00:59:45 Speaker_16
One would have been if Shawna's prior marriage wasn't fully ended by the time she swore vows to Carey.

00:59:52 Speaker_16
In any case, in May of 88, the Utah Department of Corrections moved Carey from the Sanpete County Jail to another facility, 150 miles away in Iron County. This put an end to his visits with Shawna.

01:00:07 Speaker_16
Carey wasn't the only Ogden City rapist to land in the Iron County Correctional Facility that summer. Blaine Nelson headed there too after his sentencing in Ogden.

01:00:18 Speaker_07
All this is off my chest now. I can basically try to go forward. I know 30 years is the rest of my life.

01:00:30 Speaker_16
Blaine was at that time facing additional charges in Iron County, where he had admitted to attacking several women. A judge there sentenced him that August, adding 35 years to Blaine's sentence.

01:00:42 Speaker_16
It meant Blaine would likely never live another day as a free man. Blaine and Carey crossed paths while they were both in the Iron County Jail that summer.

01:00:53 Speaker_05
But of course, once they're down in prison together and talking, who knows what they come up with.

01:00:57 Speaker_16
Former Weber County Attorney Reed Richards received a letter from Blaine soon afterward, in which Blaine claimed to have committed the two rapes for which Carey was serving time.

01:01:06 Speaker_05
Then you get the question of, well, which one of them was it?

01:01:09 Speaker_16
Blaine wrote other letters to other lawyers, asking them to get involved to help clear Carey Hartman. But Reed wasn't buying it, in part because Blaine didn't have B-type blood.

01:01:20 Speaker_05
So I don't know how that happened to be there, if it was him that did it.

01:01:24 Speaker_16
Remember, Kerry had B-type blood, and the crime lab had found B-type blood in the forensic evidence from the case he had gone to trial on, but not the others.

01:01:33 Speaker_05
Well, and I don't know that we still know which ones he did and which ones Nelson did. Reed suspected Kerry and Blaine had cut some kind of deal. And there was some talk of a third person, too.

01:01:45 Speaker_16
Yes, there was a third serial rapist active in Ogden during this same period. His name was Jerry Casita.

01:01:55 Speaker_05
So you got three people and I don't know any of us know exactly which ones which did because once the reports are in the paper they can give you quite a lot of detail just from what they've read in the paper I suppose.

01:02:06 Speaker_16
In the spring of 89, Carey collected sworn affidavits from three people who each claimed to have at different times and in different places heard Blaine Nelson admitting to Carey's crimes.

01:02:17 Speaker_16
Two of those witnesses were inmates, but the third was a clergy member for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who taught religion to inmates. That church leader even wrote a letter to the Utah Attorney General's office.

01:02:32 Speaker_16
He wrote, quote, Blaine's comments have caused me to believe that there is some doubt as to Carey's guilt or innocence. If Carey Hartman could convince enough people to share that same doubt, it might be enough to overturn his conviction.

01:02:54 Speaker_16
Carey sat for an interview with a social worker in November of 88, about a year into his sentence. He wanted into a sex offender therapy program. I have a copy of the social worker's notes.

01:03:05 Speaker_16
She wrote Carey was above average in intellectual functioning. The notes include direct quotations from Carey.

01:03:13 Speaker_15
He talked about his dad. He's a wonderful man and our relationship was excellent. He has great wisdom. He was not always the best listener. He didn't really support me. He was too busy being right. He's a dictator, emperor, king of the Hartman family.

01:03:29 Speaker_15
And Kerry talked about his mom. She was insecure with dad because of his dominance.

01:03:43 Speaker_16
Kerry was the oldest of four kids in his family. He said he was closest to his baby sister Sheila, hadn't talked to his brother Jack in at least a year, and had a strained relationship with his sister Jill.

01:03:56 Speaker_15
More than anything, I enjoy spending time with my two sons. She asked Kerry to list positive attributes about himself.

01:04:04 Speaker_16
He said he was articulate and honest. She then asked for some negatives. Carey said he could be moody, was bad at handling money, and lacked a sense of self-worth. When it came to Carey's sexual habits, Carey grew circumspect.

01:04:21 Speaker_15
I found out about and tried masturbation at age 14. I found out from some cousins. I first found out about sex at 15 from some kids at school.

01:04:32 Speaker_16
He wouldn't say what he thought about sex, what his parents thought about it, or what his friends thought about it. The social worker wrote Carey insisted on his innocence of any rape or sexual assault.

01:04:45 Speaker_16
He only wanted in the sex offender therapy program for help with his habit of making obscene phone calls. He refused to answer any of her questions about the specifics of the charges that had put him in prison.

01:04:59 Speaker_16
Carey was admitted to the therapy program. It required he write an autobiography. He sometimes read portions of it aloud during group sessions.

01:05:09 Speaker_16
The social worker wrote Carey one time recited a, quote, very detailed account of the disappearance of his girlfriend. To my frustration, she didn't write specifically what Carey said about it.

01:05:20 Speaker_16
But her notes also say Carey admitted to holding back some of the detail because he didn't trust his fellow inmates.

01:05:28 Speaker_16
In a follow-up report a few months later, The Social Worker wrote Carey worked very hard to, quote, control the anger that seems to be brewing inside. That anger manifested when Carey talked about why he was in prison.

01:05:42 Speaker_16
He said he was innocent and called the jury that had convicted him incompetent.

01:05:47 Speaker_15
Two old ladies on the jury slept through the trial. And he made sexist remarks about the women he had attacked. The victims were there, testifying and looking very virginal in dress and manner.

01:05:59 Speaker_16
But he had a plan to win back his freedom. His conviction was on appeal to the Utah Supreme Court. Carey's appeal didn't argue factual innocence. It didn't say he hadn't raped Caroline.

01:06:13 Speaker_16
Instead, his lawyer argued Carey had been overcharged and over-sentenced because he'd only threatened to blow Caroline's children's heads off. He hadn't actually put a gun to their heads. The justices of the Utah Supreme Court were unmoved.

01:06:29 Speaker_16
They rejected Carey's appeal in a unanimous decision issued in November of 1989. Carey seemed to take the setback in stride. A few days later, he wrote a letter to Roy Police Detective Jack Bell.

01:06:52 Speaker_15
Have you once even thought about contacting Unsolved Mysteries about the case?

01:06:57 Speaker_16
Unsolved Mysteries was a network TV series that aired during the 80s and 90s. It was a blend of true crime reenactments and paranormal malarkey. Actor Robert Stack hosted. Join me.

01:07:10 Speaker_18
You may be able to help solve a mystery.

01:07:15 Speaker_15
I want to find her as badly as you do, so give it a try. I didn't have anything to do with her disappearance, Jack. You know that." Carrie almost seemed to mock Jack in this letter, taunting him over the failed search for Cherie.

01:07:31 Speaker_17
more manipulation.

01:07:33 Speaker_16
But Kerry didn't write just to needle Jack. He wanted his old high school classmate to know he was about to play the card he had tucked up his sleeve. It had to do with an emerging science.

01:07:47 Speaker_15
DNA. I am not guilty of the charges I am here for. I think you realize that also. And I am about to prove it.

01:08:01 Speaker_16
on the next episode of Cold. If you have information about the disappearance of Cherie Warren, now is the time to share it. You can reach me by emailing cold at ksl.com or contact the Roy City Police Department at 801-774-1063.

01:08:35 Speaker_16
I also want you to know, if you've experienced abuse or sexual violence, you're not alone. There are trained experts ready to listen and help.

01:08:44 Speaker_16
In the United States, survivors of rape and sexual assault can connect to free resources through the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network at RAINN.org.

01:08:55 Speaker_16
If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse in any form, you can reach the National Domestic Violence Hotline at thehotline.org. Cold is a production of KSL Podcasts and Wondery, in association with Workhouse Media.

01:09:15 Speaker_16
Cold is researched, written, and hosted by me, Dave Cauley. Audio production and sound design by Ben Kebrick and Aaron Mason. Mixing and mastering by Ben Kebrick.

01:09:26 Speaker_16
Michael Bonmiller composed our main theme, with additional music this season by Allison Leighton Brown. Additional voices in this episode provided by John Green. Francis Cook. Kevin LaRue. Aaron Mason. Ryan Meeks. With Eric Openshaw and Ken Fall.

01:09:43 Speaker_16
My personal thanks to our editorial team, Amy Donaldson, Andrea Smartin, Ryan Meeks, Becky Bruce, Kira Farrimond, Kellyanne Halverson, Josh Tilton, and Felix Pannell.

01:09:55 Speaker_16
For Amazon Music and Wondery, managing producer Candice Manriquez-Wren, producer Claire Chambers, senior producer Lizzie Bassett, and executive producer Morgan Jones.

01:10:06 Speaker_16
Special thanks to Kale Bittner and Alison Vermeulen, with Workhouse Media executive producers Paul Anderson and Nick Pannella. And for KSL Podcasts, executive producer, Cheryl Worsley.

01:10:18 Speaker_16
For pictures and more, go to our website, thecoldpodcast.com, and follow us on social at The Cold Podcast. Most of all, thank you for listening.

01:10:39 Speaker_12
From the award-winning masters of audio horror,

01:10:42 Speaker_10
I see a face right up against the window. Bleach white, no hair, black eyes, a round hole for a mouth. It's flat, Taylor. It's completely flat. I don't know what that is. I don't know what kind of a head is flat.

01:10:56 Speaker_12
Comes the return of Dark Sanctum.

01:11:02 Speaker_10
What is that coming under the door? It's blood.

01:11:06 Speaker_12
Seven original chilling tales inspired by the Twilight Zone and Tales from the Crypt.

01:11:11 Speaker_10
Get back in your car. Lizzie, it's okay. I'm here now. Josh, get in your car!

01:11:24 Speaker_12
Starring Bethany Joy Lenz, Clive Standen, and Michael O'Neil. Welcome to the Dark Sanctum. Listen to Dark Sanctum Season 2 exclusively on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.