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Episode: Thanksgiving With My Wife and Girlfriend

Author: The New York Times
Duration: 00:52:09

Episode Shownotes

Townsend Davis had been married for more than a decade when his wife, Bridget, was diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer’s disease. Their lives changed immediately. Townsend became Bridget’s caregiver, sorting her medication day after day, making their home accessible, and finding someone to look after her while he worked and raised

their sons. He was committed to Bridget, and wanted to be there for her as her condition progressed.One day, not long after her diagnosis, Bridget told Townsend she wanted him eventually to find a new partner. But Townsend couldn’t imagine it. Searching for another love seemed too complicated, and he was focused on caring for Bridget and raising their family.Then, years later, Townsend met Deb.On this episode of Modern Love, Townsend explains what it was like to forge a new partnership as he remained married to Bridget, and what happened when he brought his wife and his girlfriend together for a Thanksgiving dinner.This episode is adapted from Townsend’s Modern Love essay from 2024, “A Family Dinner With My Wife and Girlfriend.”Modern Love is looking for your stories! We’re working on an episode about the dating memories you want to forget. We want to know: What was the worst date you went on this year? What happened? And what are you trying to do differently when it comes to love in the new year? Whether you’re singled or partnered, tell us about your bad dates. Send us your story by recording a voice memo and emailing it to [email protected]. Please include your name and where you’re based. You might hear your voice on a future episode of Modern Love.How to submit a Modern Love Essay to The New York TimesHow to submit a Tiny Love Story Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Summary

In this episode, Townsend Davis shares his deeply personal journey as a caregiver for his wife, Bridget, diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer's. The narrative reflects on their once whimsical marriage and how love evolves through adversity. Bridget's encouragement for Townsend to find new love leads to his relationship with Deb. The Thanksgiving dinner, where Townsend invites both women, highlights the complexities of his family dynamics and the evolving nature of love amidst challenging circumstances.

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Full Transcript

00:00:01 Speaker_01
Love now and always.

00:00:04 Speaker_00
Love is stronger than anything.

00:00:08 Speaker_01
Can I love you more than anything? When Townsend Davis and his wife Bridget got married, their wedding honestly sounded like one of the wackiest I've ever heard of. First off, Bridget was five months pregnant.

00:00:26 Speaker_01
She arrived via speedboat since the wedding was on a lake. She was barefoot and wearing a dress that had been made just the day before.

00:00:34 Speaker_01
Townsend told me he remembers her stepping off the boat, running up the dock to the ceremony, and feeling like everything was just so right, so Bridget. She'd organized the whole thing herself.

00:00:46 Speaker_03
Her idea was Thanksgiving in September. That was the atmosphere that she was shooting for.

00:00:52 Speaker_01
Wait, she explicitly said, I want this to be Thanksgiving in September?

00:00:55 Speaker_03
Yes, she says, I want Thanksgiving in September.

00:00:56 Speaker_01
Tell me why she wanted it.

00:00:57 Speaker_03
So we had a turkey. That was our wedding food.

00:01:01 Speaker_01
Our banquet. Tell me why a Thanksgiving-themed wedding was something that she wanted.

00:01:06 Speaker_03
She just loved Thanksgiving. It was her favorite holiday. And I think what she liked about it was the ability to have a core group which is our family and add people to it.

00:01:18 Speaker_03
And it was the biggest holiday more so than Christmas or Hanukkah or Easter or Passover.

00:01:27 Speaker_01
For a time, things went smoothly. Townsend and Bridget had two kids, built careers, and enjoyed nearly a decade of Thanksgiving dinners together as a family. But then, Bridget got some news that would change everything.

00:01:41 Speaker_01
Her marriage and the life she and Townsend had built together. She was diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer's. And how she and Townsend dealt with it is truly remarkable. From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love.

00:02:01 Speaker_01
Each week, we bring you stories inspired by the Modern Love column. This week's episode is based on Townsend's Modern Love essay, A Family Dinner with My Wife and Girlfriend. It's a Thanksgiving story unlike any other. Stick with us.

00:02:24 Speaker_01
So Townsend, you and your wife, Bridget, were married for more than 10 years before she got a really difficult diagnosis. But before we talk about that, I want to know, what was Bridget like? How would you describe her?

00:02:37 Speaker_01
What was she like as a partner, as a parent?

00:02:40 Speaker_03
Yes. So she was very much about not sweating the small stuff, didn't make the kids make their bed or learn a sport or learn an instrument. She just wanted to have as many friends in the house and sleepovers, you know, at the drop of a hat.

00:02:59 Speaker_03
And one thing she did do later in life that became a real anchor for her is that she started drawing cartoons. Wow. My son was taking paper lunch bags to lunch in third grade and she scrawled with a sharpie a little cartoon figure.

00:03:16 Speaker_01
Do you remember what the cartoon was?

00:03:18 Speaker_03
I think it was of my son as a bird. Cool. It probably took her 30 seconds.

00:03:25 Speaker_00
Wow.

00:03:25 Speaker_03
And then he wanted more of those and then his friend started wanting them and one thing led to another and she started cartooning, for real, all self-taught.

00:03:38 Speaker_03
And each member of the family was an animal and all the friends got different animal characters. What were you? I was a moose.

00:03:48 Speaker_01
And why were you a moose, Townsend?

00:03:50 Speaker_03
I still, I've racked my brain. I still don't remember why that how that came to be. I think maybe because I'm kind of a lumbering, watchful presence compared to her. I'm a foot taller. You have huge antlers for the listeners. Right.

00:04:03 Speaker_03
I don't know if people know that, but it's an unusual feature. But I think it was more my watchfulness and compared to her I was sometimes quiet.

00:04:16 Speaker_01
What was she? Did she have a character?

00:04:18 Speaker_03
She was a pony.

00:04:19 Speaker_01
Tell me about that. Why that selection?

00:04:21 Speaker_03
I think just very sort of perky and peppy and can get herself in trouble pretty quickly.

00:04:28 Speaker_01
And one of your sons was a bird and your other son?

00:04:31 Speaker_03
Yes, our oldest William was a pup. But he always had a beret on because he became a film fan and a filmmaker.

00:04:40 Speaker_01
Is there one cartoon that she perhaps made of the two of you that you remember? Moose and Pony?

00:04:47 Speaker_03
Yes. Well, the first time we sat down to talk about Alzheimer's, she ended up turning into a cartoon. No way. After I noticed that she was slipping in terms of her executive function, it really wasn't memory at all. It was managing a calendar, managing

00:05:06 Speaker_03
the kids after school activities and things like that seemed out of character. So we sat down in December of 2013 and had a serious conversation and, you know, genius that I am, I decided, oh, well, maybe she has late onset ADHD. That was my theory.

00:05:26 Speaker_03
So I floated that theory and she howled with laughter. She thought it was the funniest thing I had ever said and she actually took a list of supposed symptoms and turned to me and basically cross-examined me and said, let's see, am I a risk taker? No.

00:05:44 Speaker_03
Am I have trouble finishing books? laughable. She had, like, over a thousand books on her Kindle. Um, you know, and just went, like, point by point by point rebutting this idea. And then she did a cartoon about it.

00:06:01 Speaker_03
And in the cartoon, I'm this bumbling moose doctor who's telling her that she has ADHD and she's basically laughing it off. So, and then for two years, you know, we didn't really talk about it.

00:06:35 Speaker_01
When did you first start to sense that something was off with Bridget? What were some of the signs that led you to the two of you to seek medical attention?

00:06:46 Speaker_03
So the very first time I remember this coming up, she was still in her late 40s. And we were driving with the kids in the backseat and we were talking about submitting health insurance forms. I guess we were still on her health insurance from work.

00:07:09 Speaker_03
And for some reason she just could not get the claim submitted. And I just couldn't understand someone who was so organized and capable couldn't get this done. And I remember

00:07:21 Speaker_03
I got so upset, I was driving, I had to pull the car over and probably saying something like, you know, just do it. Can't you just do it? I don't understand. You can do things like this with your eyes closed.

00:07:33 Speaker_03
She would say, oh, you're making too much of a big deal of it. Or she would make excuses, you know, They keep saying they've lost it. I said, yeah, but you know what to do. You just keep submitting it until they accept it.

00:07:47 Speaker_03
And I just couldn't understand it. So that's the first I remember. Of course, that could have been nothing. It could have been completely unrelated. And then it was more managing a calendar later when the kids got older and busier.

00:07:59 Speaker_03
And anytime something slipped, either a missed appointment or a lost homework or something like that, play dates, she would just brush it off and say, you're making too big a deal of it. You're the one that needs control.

00:08:16 Speaker_03
And then she started blaming her computer. She started saying, oh, the software is, you know, it's planned obsolescence. They're trying to get us to buy new computers.

00:08:27 Speaker_03
This is someone who was super proficient in Excel and very proficient with all the Outlook software and the kinds of things you use in her job, which we had sort of imported into our personal life.

00:08:40 Speaker_00
And so

00:08:41 Speaker_03
This just became out of character. But she always had an excuse and she always fell back on the parenting style I talked about earlier, which is, you know, I don't sweat the small stuff. You do. And this is just a difference we're having.

00:08:54 Speaker_03
There's nothing going on.

00:08:55 Speaker_01
Was that convincing to you?

00:08:57 Speaker_03
No. Not at all. Because it just, I mean I doubted, I doubted myself. Because yes, things were hard. And I was having a really hard time at work. It was a very intense period of child rearing as well. You know, when the kids are pre-teens.

00:09:14 Speaker_03
So, I noticed, I would sometimes say something and then I just often would keep it to myself because it was always such a fraught area.

00:09:23 Speaker_01
It sounds like she would get quite defensive.

00:09:25 Speaker_03
Very defensive and always had an answer. So, and I think eventually things started happening like her friends organized a 50th birthday party for a small group of her old, old friends in Manhattan, just women only. She forgot. She forgot to show up.

00:09:40 Speaker_03
They called me from the restaurant and said, where is she? And then she apologized, but that was very out of character. She was 50 at that point.

00:09:50 Speaker_01
What did she say when you called her? Oh, I must have forgotten or I must have...

00:09:58 Speaker_03
I must have made a mistake with the calendar or something. And then that caused a rift with some of those friends, you know, all of whom forgave her ultimately. But were very, very angry with her.

00:10:13 Speaker_01
And so when did you learn that it was actually Alzheimer's? Did Bridget decide to go see a doctor?

00:10:21 Speaker_03
Yes. So in 2015. So by this time she's 51. Gotcha. I just at the time didn't even know what early onset Alzheimer's was. We thought maybe it was menopause. We thought maybe it was ADHD. Right.

00:10:37 Speaker_03
So I remember the doctor gave her just a basic tabletop cognitive test from her laptop.

00:10:45 Speaker_01
Were you there with her in that room?

00:10:46 Speaker_03
I was there sitting right next to her and it was a classic initial neuropsych. battery with all the usual questions and asking her to draw the hands of a clock to show a certain time. And I could see that she was bombing it.

00:11:03 Speaker_03
And I didn't say anything and the doctor stopped, didn't even complete the test. She stopped and said, look, and just to back up for a minute, when we initially made the appointment,

00:11:16 Speaker_03
We went there and Bridget said to the doctor, oh, I'm just here because my husband is making me. I don't think anything is going on, but just to humor him, I'm here to be tested. She does the test. She bombs it.

00:11:32 Speaker_03
And then the doctor looks straight at her and said, well, I hate to say this, but your husband is right. Something is going on that is ahead of schedule. And it's not just natural aging or menopause. You need to see a neurologist.

00:11:46 Speaker_03
And even I was taken aback by how swiftly she had come to that conclusion. And then we went through a whole six month process of testing that was also very trying.

00:11:58 Speaker_01
When you're leaving this initial, this first appointment where the doctor says you need to see a neurologist, do you remember saying anything in particular to her or her saying anything particular to you?

00:12:11 Speaker_03
I don't remember specific words but I do remember that it brought us closer that I said, wherever we're going with this, we're going together. Let's see where this goes. And we were it was it was a bonding moment. I remember going home and

00:12:31 Speaker_03
I mean, what I really remember was the day of the diagnosis.

00:12:33 Speaker_01
It came six months later. Yes. So there's six months of testing.

00:12:37 Speaker_03
Six months of testing. And during the process, they were ruling out other things. So by the time we went to the neurologist, they had ruled everything else out. So she spent about a half an hour going through all the tests and what they showed.

00:12:55 Speaker_03
Bridget and I are side by side. And I remember listening and getting frustrated with the doctor. Why are we going all of these tests again? Can't you get to the bottom line faster?

00:13:04 Speaker_03
And finally, the neurologist looked at us with tears in her eyes and said, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have a neurodegenerative disease that is consistent with Alzheimer's. And we don't have any other explanation.

00:13:21 Speaker_03
And Bridget said, and I remember this because she grabbed my hand and said, what will I do about the children? And, you know, we sat there and took it in and then we asked a couple of questions. Should we do more testing?

00:13:44 Speaker_03
And the neurologist said, don't bother. This is pretty clear. You could spend money for more PET scans or whatever. But really, you should start living your new life with Alzheimer's.

00:14:00 Speaker_03
And her first question after asking what she will do about the children is how much time do I have? And the doctor sort of gave a rather vague answer. What did she say?

00:14:12 Speaker_03
I think she said something like you have, you know, between five and 25 years or something like that.

00:14:17 Speaker_01
Oh my gosh.

00:14:18 Speaker_03
Which is not super helpful in terms of trying to envision the rest of your life. And then I really remember coming home on the subway after that appointment and lying down on the bed, it was the middle of the day, it was a Thursday, June 16th.

00:14:37 Speaker_03
And we laid on the bed, holding hands, looking up at the ceiling. And I remember the kids came home from school, we're banging on the door and we were ignoring them and just trying to take it in.

00:14:49 Speaker_03
And then that night we were like, okay, well, eventually we got up and said, all right, well, we have to go to the pharmacy and get our first meds and start this new life together.

00:15:02 Speaker_03
And I was like, okay, I guess that means I'm now the caregiver and she's now the cared for person. And like our roles became visible at that point, although we had done, you know, we had cared for each other in a different way in the marriage.

00:15:21 Speaker_03
Um, and then I remember we went to the pharmacy and got the meds and took the meds and like bought our first pill box and came home. And then we, I remember we had, uh, we decided to have a drink on the deck at the back of our house in Brooklyn.

00:15:40 Speaker_03
And I had a beer and I don't remember, maybe she had like a blueberry soda or something. Supposedly blueberries are good for you. Not that there's any blueberries in the soda. And she said, what is it I have again? And I thought she was kidding.

00:15:58 Speaker_03
I thought she was just kidding. And I was like, you're kidding? No, what is it? I know we have something. I have something.

00:16:05 Speaker_02
Yeah.

00:16:05 Speaker_03
And I said, it's Alzheimer's. And she goes, oh yeah. Yeah, right. Okay. So yeah. And then we just, I just remember the quiet moment in the back deck where we're just taking a deep breath. And.

00:16:20 Speaker_01
Townsend, I mean, can you tell me, how did you feel when you realized she wasn't joking? Like she didn't remember.

00:16:30 Speaker_03
I thought it was funny because I was like, after all this, like we used the word Alzheimer's a lot in terms of wondering what it might be, and the doctor just told us all about it. And so I really thought she was kidding.

00:16:46 Speaker_03
And it would have been, that would have been in character.

00:16:48 Speaker_01
But she wasn't kidding. She really didn't know?

00:16:50 Speaker_03
I don't think she was kidding, no. It didn't look like it to me.

00:17:23 Speaker_01
You know, I guess I'm wondering, was there a moment like that, maybe further along, months or years later, where you realized like, okay, this disease has really progressed and the Bridget I know is not the Bridget standing in front of me anymore.

00:17:42 Speaker_01
Was there a moment like that that you can point to?

00:17:47 Speaker_03
It was in May of 2022. And I was standing in the kitchen. It was a Saturday morning. I think I was making breakfast or something. And she came down and she said, oh, hi, Marcia, to me. And Marcia is a name of our longtime housekeeper who also cooks.

00:18:10 Speaker_03
But she wasn't there that day. And, you know, for months before that, she had been calling other people Townsend. She had been calling me by other names. So there was some looseness with labeling and naming.

00:18:26 Speaker_03
So I didn't really count it as a lack of recognition. It sort of made sense that she would mistake me for someone who was there and doing the same kinds of things as the housekeeper. So it was a gradual process.

00:18:42 Speaker_03
It wasn't just like one day she knew me and the other day she didn't. But ever since then, she started using all of our names. That is me and the kids and her mom and dad less often.

00:18:56 Speaker_03
And in the beginning she was afraid of getting it wrong and now I just don't know.

00:18:59 Speaker_01
Yeah. When she called you by, it's clear that this date, even if it was gradual, sticks in your mind. When she called you Marcia, what did you feel?

00:19:10 Speaker_03
This was the moment I was dreading the most. When is she not gonna recognize me? What's that gonna look like? What am I gonna do about it? I had a whole movie scene in my head of how it would go. Like she would say, well, wait, who are you?

00:19:25 Speaker_03
And I would say, I'm Townsend, I'm the moose, I'm your husband. And she would smile and it would all be fine again. That wasn't the way it went at all. But yeah, four weeks after that, I went over and over and like, wow, that was it. That was the moment.

00:19:42 Speaker_03
And what does that mean? Who am I to her now? Does she know that I'm still her husband? And what am I to her then?

00:19:59 Speaker_01
Okay, at this point, Townsend, you're taking care of Bridget at home. Her Alzheimer's has clearly progressed significantly. You're working, you're parenting, you are juggling a ton. What was that like for you? How were you doing emotionally?

00:20:16 Speaker_03
Well, first of all, by that time, I had full-time help for her. So we had a number of different caregivers who came during the day and also at night because she, at that time, was very, very agitated.

00:20:31 Speaker_03
needed a ton of comforting and was starting to need help with her personal care.

00:20:36 Speaker_02
Like hygiene, going to the bathroom, stuff like that.

00:20:38 Speaker_03
Yeah, feeding, getting dressed and everything. So in some ways, my job as a caregiver had gotten a little easier.

00:20:46 Speaker_02
You'd help, yeah.

00:20:47 Speaker_03
But starting with that moment in May of 2022, She was not seeing me as her husband or appeared to not be knowing me as her husband any longer.

00:21:01 Speaker_03
So those existential questions about what am I to her, what is she to me, how do I arrange things, what should I do with myself, were percolating.

00:21:16 Speaker_02
Were you lonely?

00:21:17 Speaker_03
Yes, I was, for sure. Even though I probably wouldn't have admitted it.

00:21:22 Speaker_02
I was gonna say, did you admit that?

00:21:24 Speaker_03
No, I said, I'm very active. I've got all my friends. I've got my men's doubles on Wednesdays. And people did take pity on me.

00:21:35 Speaker_03
And so if they had an extra theater ticket, it would be like the third wheel in the third, going to the theater with a couple or filling in for someone who couldn't make it.

00:21:46 Speaker_01
Did you think about trying to meet someone else? Like romantically?

00:21:53 Speaker_03
Not actively, no.

00:21:55 Speaker_01
I mean, was that something you and Bridget had ever talked about when she was still able to have those kinds of conversations?

00:22:02 Speaker_03
Yeah, I don't remember exactly when or where this was, but sometime shortly after the diagnosis, she said to me in kind of an offhand way, she said, you know, you're going to have to find someone else when I'm gone.

00:22:18 Speaker_03
And I just remember it being an act of empathy on her part, that she was picturing me being alone. And I was like, what are you talking about? I'm not ready to think about that. That's crazy.

00:22:33 Speaker_03
I kind of shut it down, I think, because I wanted to focus on what we still had. I couldn't really imagine a life without her. I kind of said, honey, I can't think about that.

00:22:46 Speaker_01
There's so much else to think about. I can't think about that.

00:22:48 Speaker_03
Yeah, I can't think about that. And it clashes with us being here together. So I sort of blew it off. I didn't want to hurt her, hurt the children or her parents.

00:23:01 Speaker_03
And again, that point at which she used a different name for me, I didn't know exactly what she could perceive. So I just decided I didn't need a partner. I decided I'll get different things from different people. And I felt pretty good day to day.

00:23:18 Speaker_03
I just thought it was enough to have a full life.

00:23:26 Speaker_01
After the break, Townsend surprises himself when he meets someone special. Stay with us. Welcome back. So at this point, Townsend had all but written off finding a new partner.

00:24:02 Speaker_01
Bridget and him were still married, so trying to date again just seemed too complicated. He still loved Bridget. He didn't want to hurt her, even if she didn't seem to recognize him anymore.

00:24:12 Speaker_01
But then, one day, Townsend got a call from a friend who was pitching him something kind of weird. Basically, he knew this journalist named Deb, and Deb was interested in learning more about the surf culture in Long Island.

00:24:27 Speaker_01
And Townsend was a surfer, so could he show Deb around? Townsend said, sure, fine. He started texting with Deb to arrange a meetup. But the friend told Deb something different. He told her he was arranging a meet cute.

00:24:42 Speaker_03
And apparently, you can ask Deb, but she said, she's, you know, wait, you're asking me to go meet a married man, you know, way out on Long Island somewhere. You're crazy. I'm not doing that. Yeah. So I wasn't thinking of it as a dating prospect at all.

00:24:59 Speaker_01
Was she thinking of it as a dating prospect?

00:25:01 Speaker_03
I think so, maybe.

00:25:02 Speaker_01
Okay, okay. It sounds confusing.

00:25:04 Speaker_03
All I know is that the friend's a bit of a puppeteer. There's some strings being pulled. But she showed up in the parking lot with her beach chair and a cooler full of food and sunglasses and sweatpants.

00:25:20 Speaker_03
And I thought, great, she looks like she knows her way around a beach. Hop in. And since she purportedly was there for the surf culture, I was trying to tell her about those things.

00:25:32 Speaker_03
But then we went on a walk down to these amazing cliffs and she, I've come to learn, doesn't think there's any such thing as a personal question. So she was getting right into it. What's it like caring for your wife?

00:25:47 Speaker_02
So she knew the situation, yeah.

00:25:49 Speaker_03
She didn't know that. And we had talked a bit about that. And then she said, well, you know, what do you do for companionship?

00:25:56 Speaker_01
She asked you that directly? Yes. The first time you met?

00:25:59 Speaker_03
Yes. So I think I repeated this line of, I'm going to get different things from different people. Right. I'm doing triathlons. I'm a rock. I am an island.

00:26:09 Speaker_03
But no, I think she was trying to come clean a little bit by saying, you know, I'm not just here for the surf scene. You know, my friend thought we might be a good match. And I said, uh, well, just so you know, I'm not... I'm not dating anyone.

00:26:26 Speaker_01
And how did she react when you said that? Like, I'm not... She kind of lobs a ball over the net to you, and you say, I'm not catching that ball. You say, like, I'm not dating right now. How did she react?

00:26:36 Speaker_03
I think she looked at me from behind those sunglasses and was like, Mm-hmm. Okay. Let's see how long that lasts. No, I think it was amazing to have someone to talk to. And she had had her own trials and tribulations and she told me about those.

00:26:55 Speaker_03
So we just were buddies for a while.

00:26:58 Speaker_02
Yeah.

00:27:00 Speaker_03
I had forgotten what it was like having that kind of interchange and you know texting and sharing funny things and just things that came up and we soon got to know each other and gradually and we did something together maybe

00:27:17 Speaker_03
Once a week, every two weeks or something. But we texted more often than that. And it kind of built from there. And I was like, wow, this is fun. I forgot what this feels like. And I really become much more confident that Bridget would not be harmed.

00:27:35 Speaker_01
Well, I mean, I was going to say, like, as you were texting and hanging out more with Deb and it's feeling fun and you're excited, are you also thinking about Bridget in the back of your mind? Yes.

00:27:45 Speaker_03
Yes, the whole time. Yes, of course.

00:27:46 Speaker_02
What's that like? Like a split screen type?

00:27:48 Speaker_03
It's just, can I do this? Can I dip my toe in? Or is dipping the toe in a betrayal of some kind?

00:28:00 Speaker_02
That's a heavy question to ask as you're maybe starting to build something with someone else.

00:28:06 Speaker_03
But at some point I just thought what am I waiting for? I don't see a downside here. If it's a complete disaster we'll go back to our separate corners and life will go on as before.

00:28:19 Speaker_03
And so after a couple of months of this non-dating, dating, and exchanging you know, some pretty deep emotional things the whole time. So I said, well, maybe I'll just take it slow and we'll see.

00:28:39 Speaker_03
And a buddy was like, just go hang out there in our apartment and take it slow.

00:28:46 Speaker_01
Okay, so I mean, it sounds like you decide for yourself, I'm gonna go for it, right? Like, I'm gonna make a move. Right. So what did you do with, did you tell Deb this? No. Okay, so.

00:28:56 Speaker_03
So we had already set the rules of engagement at the beach.

00:29:02 Speaker_02
We're friends.

00:29:03 Speaker_03
And that's the way it was gonna, that's the way it went. It was actually really fun and amazing. And no, I didn't really preview this. I went over to her apartment. She had been in the emergency room that morning, so her hand was still

00:29:15 Speaker_03
bandage from like an infected splinter. She was wearing the same clothes that she wore to the ER. She said, well, I'm just going to watch this documentary. Do you want to watch it with me? I was like, sure. Her son was working at a restaurant that night.

00:29:29 Speaker_03
And then I sort of pulled her toward me on the couch. Yeah, taking it slow. Yeah, it didn't end up happening. Did you watch the documentary? I don't remember much about the documentary. I'll leave that to the... But it was great.

00:29:50 Speaker_03
And then it was just electric. And then I wanted to see how it felt after that. I remember going back to the house

00:29:59 Speaker_01
Where Bridget is, correct?

00:30:00 Speaker_03
Where Bridget is, and where my son, Teddy, who was then a senior in high school is. And I looked around, and I remember wandering around the house, and I was like, Nothing is different here. I feel different inside.

00:30:17 Speaker_03
I feel totally alive and electrified by this new relationship possibility. And I can still care for Bridget. This is not a conflict. I can still do her pillbox. I can still talk to her. I can still hold her hand, do all the things that we do.

00:30:35 Speaker_03
And I was like okay maybe this can work.

00:30:39 Speaker_01
I mean I guess too like I'm thinking about again that conversation with Bridget where she told you to find someone else. Did it feel like you needed to tell her? Did you have a moment where you came to her?

00:30:52 Speaker_03
It was maybe three months later. And Deb and I had just gone on this surf trip to Costa Rica together and I was like, okay, this is going somewhere for real now. I need to tell Bridget.

00:31:06 Speaker_03
And my reason was, if there was an issue, I don't know what I would have done about it, but if she had reacted negatively, I wanted to know how she felt. Were you nervous to tell her? Yes, I was terribly nervous. I remember scripting it out.

00:31:22 Speaker_03
What did you say? Do you remember the words? Yes. I remember I said, I just want you to know that I've met someone and she is my new partner I think is the word I used. And I didn't use the word girlfriend. I didn't use the word lover.

00:31:45 Speaker_03
I used the word partner.

00:31:48 Speaker_01
Because that felt

00:31:51 Speaker_03
Well, that was the description that fit the description. And then I said, but I want you to know that I'm going to take care of you to the end. Nothing here at home is going to change. And I'm going to be with you.

00:32:06 Speaker_03
I'm going to stay married to you to the end. And she kind of looked at me. I remember she was like fiddling with her, the hem of her blanket or something. And she said kind of quietly, Well I think that's a good idea.

00:32:24 Speaker_03
I don't know what she meant, I don't know if she was reacting to the second part of what I said, or the first part of what I said, or if I was too vague. I just wonder if I did it, was clear enough. And she didn't seem upset.

00:32:45 Speaker_03
And I was like, okay, well, that's good. Again, if she had been, I don't know what I would have done. I would have had a real dilemma there. So I was relieved and then I remember telling the caregivers, listen, I want you to know, is she upset?

00:33:01 Speaker_03
Is she upset that I have a girlfriend? Is she using my name?

00:33:04 Speaker_01
Is she asking for me?

00:33:05 Speaker_03
Is she asking for her husband? And they, to a person, said, no, she's not. She's not agitated. She's not. But she's also not asking for you, which is... She's not asking for me and she does not appear upset by this news that I've given her.

00:33:27 Speaker_01
Yeah. What about Bridget's family, who I assume you were close with? How did you tell them?

00:33:32 Speaker_03
Oh boy, yeah. I was nervous about this too. So telling her parents was a phone call. They live in San Francisco. Wow. I'm just thinking about how nervous I was then.

00:33:49 Speaker_03
I had the same script that I had used with Bridget, which is, I've met someone, it's serious, it's wonderfully life-giving, but I'm still going to take care of Bridget to the end. And so

00:34:12 Speaker_03
So I told him this and they didn't ask a lot of questions, which was okay. And then her mother said, well, it's about time. And I said, what do you mean?

00:34:28 Speaker_03
And she said, well, we didn't want to be the ones to bring it up, but we expected that this would happen someday. And we're glad you found somebody nice.

00:34:42 Speaker_01
After the break, Townsend tells us about bringing his wife and his girlfriend together for a Thanksgiving meal, and what it felt like to continue caring for Bridget while building a new life with Deb.

00:35:12 Speaker_01
So Townsend, at the beginning of this conversation, we talked about how important Thanksgiving was to Bridget and how she loved bringing in new people and expanding, you know, the group at the table.

00:35:26 Speaker_01
I know from your Modern Love essay that about a year into dating Deb, you decide to invite her to your family's Thanksgiving. So both your wife, Bridget, and your girlfriend, Deb, will be at the same table. When did you get the idea

00:35:42 Speaker_01
to invite Deb to Thanksgiving or to do Thanksgiving together as it were?

00:35:49 Speaker_03
Yes. By that time Deb and I had been dating for over a year. Her children were scheduled to be with her ex-husband and taking turns. So she didn't

00:36:06 Speaker_03
have anywhere to go and I felt like it was our relationship had reached that point where I wanted to involve her in family things. She had already met the children and she had met Bridget on a number of occasions.

00:36:20 Speaker_03
She had met her at an Alzheimer's fundraising walk. She had met her at Teddy's graduation from high school. She had met her at an exhibit of Bridget's cartoons, which was instrumental in helping me put on. So they'd been in a room together a lot.

00:36:41 Speaker_03
And so I didn't really think much of it.

00:36:45 Speaker_01
This felt like a natural extension.

00:36:46 Speaker_03
Yeah, a natural extension. And I didn't think it would be any big deal. She had met everyone else at the table. She had met my mom, my kids, my friend who was there. So I was like, how hard can this be?

00:37:00 Speaker_01
So you sit down, set the scene for me. Where is everyone sitting?

00:37:04 Speaker_03
So I'm sitting at the head of this long table, Deb is to my right, Bridget is to my left, and I think maybe my mother is in between us. Bridget is there with the caregiver, or more accurately, there's a place setting for her.

00:37:22 Speaker_03
Before she sits down to eat, William got up from the table.

00:37:27 Speaker_02
Your son.

00:37:27 Speaker_03
And said, hello mother, it's me, William. And goes to approach her. And Bridget just doesn't seem to react. But eventually she accepts a hug from him. And I noticed during that time that Deb was crying quietly.

00:37:52 Speaker_03
But then she pulled herself together and was able to get some food and we ate.

00:37:56 Speaker_01
Can I ask you though, when you look over and you realize Deb is crying, do you understand why she's crying?

00:38:03 Speaker_03
I thought it was because of what she had just witnessed.

00:38:11 Speaker_02
With William.

00:38:12 Speaker_03
With William and his mom. And it was that. It was that. But I didn't know I just squeezed your hand and I felt that we were going to talk about it later.

00:38:26 Speaker_01
And when you did talk about it later when the dishes were cleared you know there's so many dishes the leftovers are put in the Tupperware like bring me into the conversation you had with Deb after Thanksgiving.

00:38:37 Speaker_03
Well she had a lot of mixed emotions about the whole night. So at that point we're kind of debriefing the whole night and about that moment with her son, she said it was really amazing that he was able to embrace her even though she wasn't reacting.

00:39:05 Speaker_03
And then I told her that she'd done an amazing job of carrying forward this tradition and being part of it. And She said, yeah but I still felt like an intruder. The word she used was interloper, something like that.

00:39:26 Speaker_01
What did that feel like to hear?

00:39:27 Speaker_03
And I was like, why? And at first I really challenged her on it and said, you know you're such an important part of my life. Everybody knows it. You belong here. You were such an incredible addition and presence here."

00:39:51 Speaker_03
And she said, yeah but it's different. I really felt it was Bridget's holiday. She just had these feelings of trespassing on our family tradition. And eventually I stopped fighting her on it and said,

00:40:08 Speaker_03
Okay, well, I guess I would feel worse if you didn't feel that way. Sure, sure. And later that night we talked about, you know, I know that we can't be married right now. And sometimes that's hard for me. And I said, no, I understand.

00:40:29 Speaker_03
And I thought you, cause I had asked her that question many times and- She had always- What question?

00:40:35 Speaker_01
You had asked her what question?

00:40:39 Speaker_03
Do you feel in any way compromised because we can't be married?

00:40:43 Speaker_02
You'd asked Deb that before.

00:40:44 Speaker_03
Yes, that there's some limitation in our relationship.

00:40:46 Speaker_02
She always said no. And now it seems... This night, yes.

00:40:49 Speaker_03
She admitted that she felt it. That she felt it. Sort of the whole swirl of emotion of being in bridges at my home and being part of this tradition. And I think she felt like part of it.

00:41:02 Speaker_03
And she also felt that it was a limitation too, because it wasn't something that just we had created. So, and I think she's had lots of, I don't know how many times she's felt that pang since then.

00:41:17 Speaker_03
She's never told me that she has, but I tried to reassure her by saying, whereas I feel that we are married because of what we do for each other every day.

00:41:30 Speaker_01
Wow. What did you mean by that?

00:41:32 Speaker_03
Just the way we work together and the way we help each other and enjoy each other. By that time it had really become such a big part of my life. She had become such a big part of your life?

00:41:46 Speaker_01
Yes. And how did she respond to that?

00:41:50 Speaker_03
I don't remember what she said. But she took that in. But it was intense and I again felt a bit silly that I didn't see any of this coming.

00:42:07 Speaker_01
Well, it's like you had not anticipated Thanksgiving being so emotional. It clearly was. You saw her crying.

00:42:16 Speaker_01
You'd had so many conversations, it sounds like, talking about, you know, how Deb felt knowing that you were still married and devoted to caretaking Bridget. And she'd assured you that, like, she understood. And she clearly does understand.

00:42:27 Speaker_01
She's, like, living out a totally empathetic way of treating Bridget and your family. But at the same time, this is a woman that you love telling you, it's really hard for me.

00:42:38 Speaker_01
It's really hard for me to be here in this house, to be in this relationship. It's hard.

00:42:44 Speaker_03
In this moment, yes. Yes. It was for her. But I couldn't think of another way that would be better because I wanted her there. And just as she had been so tolerant of my describing aspects of my marriage. And she always said to me, that's part of you.

00:43:09 Speaker_03
It's always going to be part of you. Of course I want to know about that. I was sort of trying to reciprocate that and say, well, this is part of me. Can it be part of you too?

00:43:24 Speaker_03
Because I had this sort of geographically convenient system where when I was at her apartment and doing things with her, I wasn't really preoccupied with what was going on at home.

00:43:35 Speaker_03
There were emergencies and I would check in and make sure things are fine. And then when I came home, it was a focus on Bridget.

00:43:45 Speaker_01
It's so interesting what you're saying. It's like this is a real reckoning for both of you at really what it means to love each other fully. For you to love Deb fully and for Deb to love you fully.

00:44:00 Speaker_03
Yeah. And I didn't see that it would be that kind of test or turning point. I just didn't. But in the end, I was so happy to hear her being honest about it and frank about it. And then since then, she's spent a lot more time with Bridget since that meal.

00:44:27 Speaker_01
Tell me about Bridget and Deb's relationship since then.

00:44:32 Speaker_03
This is so wild and so unexpected too. So Deb has spent time with Bridget since Thanksgiving, more time with her. So now, Bridget is kind of used to Deb, and we've had fun trying to speculate who she thinks Deb is, but I think she's kind of this

00:44:58 Speaker_03
magnificent presence. They're about the same height. And I think she's this sort of warm, very talkative presence that Bridget finds amusing.

00:45:11 Speaker_03
When we were setting Bridget up in her new apartment, Deb helped me move the furniture down and she was making up Bridget's bed and one of the things Bridget's doing now is she's pacing the length of the apartment.

00:45:25 Speaker_03
And I heard her going by and she's pacing and she's got a pillow in her hand and she goes, Deb, good, good, good, good. I was like, okay, I don't know if she meant that, but okay, that's interesting.

00:45:37 Speaker_03
And then after she noticed that Deb was making her bed, she came up to her and said, you are a good person. And I was like, I was stunned. I mean, I hadn't heard her say something like that in a while. Deb was very touched by that.

00:46:00 Speaker_01
Townsend, what? You are a good person?

00:46:04 Speaker_03
To her.

00:46:05 Speaker_01
Yeah. So this was after last Thanksgiving, right? I would love to know what your plans are for this Thanksgiving.

00:46:14 Speaker_03
this will be emotionally rich and interesting too. So this year it's her turn to have her children for Thanksgiving.

00:46:23 Speaker_01
Her as in Deb, Deb has her children.

00:46:24 Speaker_03
Deb has three children, yes, who are 29, 28 and 18. Wow, okay. And because Deb and I are planning to move in together Wow. In Brooklyn and have Bridget live in a separate garden apartment in the same building. Wow. So that is actually happening right now.

00:46:47 Speaker_03
That is, Bridget now lives not in our old bedroom on the top floor, but has her own dedicated ground floor apartment.

00:46:54 Speaker_01
Her own space. And in the same building, you and Deb are planning on living

00:46:58 Speaker_03
We are planning on living there in what was my old bedroom, renovated and done over so she doesn't feel like she's just moving into my old place. Then we're gonna reconfigure things so there's room for my boys and her youngest child.

00:47:16 Speaker_03
So that's in process now. Wow. But of course, by Thanksgiving, the whole place is gonna be a construction site.

00:47:23 Speaker_01
So we'll be- There's a big metaphor there, I have to say.

00:47:25 Speaker_03
Yes, for sure. So Deb will host Thanksgiving.

00:47:30 Speaker_01
Okay.

00:47:30 Speaker_03
So Bridget will come with a caregiver.

00:47:32 Speaker_01
Wow.

00:47:33 Speaker_03
You know.

00:47:33 Speaker_01
I mean, are you nervous?

00:47:35 Speaker_03
Maybe I'll be the one who's crying this time. That's kind of what I was- Am I nervous? Not any more than anything else did we do.

00:47:48 Speaker_00
Yeah, yeah.

00:47:49 Speaker_03
Which is that lack of orthodoxy seems to be something that is very routine for us.

00:47:56 Speaker_01
I guess I just wonder like, if someone were to ask you Townsend, you're doing Thanksgiving dinner, with who? How would you explain these two women?

00:48:04 Speaker_03
So I'm doing Thanksgiving with my wife, who has Alzheimer's, and my romantic partner. I mean, it's interesting the reaction you get when you say that.

00:48:17 Speaker_01
Well, I was going to say it sounds simple, but does it feel simple to you?

00:48:20 Speaker_03
It does to me, yeah.

00:48:21 Speaker_01
It does? Really? I'm surprised by that.

00:48:24 Speaker_03
Well, just because it's just super clear to me that I want to keep doing it. I can't imagine my life without either of them, really, at this point.

00:48:42 Speaker_01
I'm going to ask you, I think what might be a bit of a corny question to close us, but I hope you'll play ball.

00:48:50 Speaker_01
In my family, I'm sure we're not the only family to do this, but Thanksgiving rolls around and each of us goes around the table and we say a thing we're grateful for.

00:49:00 Speaker_01
And I'm hoping you will meet me in the cheese, but really think about this and tell me, it doesn't have to be one thing, but what are you grateful for in your life and in your love right now?

00:49:16 Speaker_03
My luck, which is, takes a lot of different forms, but I keep thinking that I lucked out with Bridget and with Deb and with my children. So just may it continue.

00:49:46 Speaker_01
Hearing your story Townsend I really I mean you would not say it at the beginning but hearing the story in full you you are a lucky guy. You really are lucky.

00:49:55 Speaker_03
I'm glad that you can see that.

00:49:59 Speaker_01
Townsend Davis, thank you so much for talking to me today.

00:50:03 Speaker_03
It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

00:50:12 Speaker_01
If you want to read Townsend's Modern Love Essay, A Family Dinner with My Wife and Girlfriend, look for the link in our show notes. Also, before we go, we are working on our end of the year goodbye 2024 episode.

00:50:25 Speaker_01
So we want to know what was the worst date you went on in 2024. Tell us the story of what happened and why it was so awful. Also, tell us what you want to do differently when it comes to love in the new year.

00:50:39 Speaker_01
Please note, you do not have to be single to share your story. If you're partnered and went on a really bad date this year, we want to hear from you, too. To send us your story, record a voice memo and email it to us at modernlovepodcastatnytimes.com.

00:50:54 Speaker_01
That's modernlovepodcastatnytimes.com. Include your name and where you're from, and you just might hear yourself on a future episode of the show. Modern Love is produced by Reva Goldberg, Davis Land, Emily Lang, and Amy Pearl.

00:51:13 Speaker_01
It's edited by Lynn Levy and our executive producer, Jen Poyant. Production management by Christina Josa. The Modern Love theme music is by Dan Powell. Original music by Amin Sahota, Alicia Beitoub, Carol Saburo, Pat McCusker, and Rowan Nemesto.

00:51:29 Speaker_01
This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez. Studio support from Maddie Masiello and Nick Pittman. Special thanks to Mahima Choblani, Nelga Loegli, Jeffrey Miranda, and Paula Schumann. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones.

00:51:42 Speaker_01
Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. If you want to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've got the instructions in our show notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.