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Episode: Second Drink: Healthcare

Author: Audacy & Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey
Duration: 01:07:19

Episode Shownotes

Hot Dog Fingers! The Health Care episode is here! The Ladies kick things off with some Fast Facts, Pam Sass, and Jenna's 'Sounds of Scranton' soundtrack (see below). Then, the Lion himself, Rainn Wilson (Metaphysical Milkshake Podcast), calls in to discuss this Dwight-centric episode. Rainn reminisces about listing all the

fake diseases (Count Choculitis) and being a new dad during the filming of this episode. Check out Office Ladies Merch at Podswag: https://www.podswag.com/collections/office-ladies Office Ladies Website - Submit a fan question: https://officeladies.com/submitaquestion Follow Us on Instagram: OfficeLadiesPod Episode Transcript To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summary

In this episode titled 'Second Drink: Healthcare,' Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey revisit the Healthcare episode of 'The Office.' They discuss memorable moments, including Jim and Pam's flirtation and Dwight's absurd signs. Guest Rainn Wilson shares insights on the episode's comedic elements, character dynamics, and improvised lines, such as the humorous 'hot dog fingers.' The hosts reflect on the filming experience, the camaraderie among cast members, and the implications of workplace healthcare decisions, showcasing the series' blend of humor and relatable themes.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Second Drink: Healthcare) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

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00:01:33 Speaker_06
Welcome to Second Drink Healthcare. I love this episode. It's one of my absolute favorites. Jenna, you know I have a t-shirt that I wear all the time. I've had it for years. It just says Hot Dog Fingers.

00:01:45 Speaker_05
I know. Well, I love that we interview Rainn Wilson in this episode, and he talks about the origin of Hot Dog Fingers, which is such a great story. Yeah. Let's dive in with some new tidbits. All right.

00:01:56 Speaker_05
Well, I'll start because I promised that I would track it. And I'm delighted to report that at 45 seconds, there is still a cat calendar at reception. Nice. I'm like, no.

00:02:09 Speaker_06
I love that you're tracking this calendar. I'm on it. Well, one of the things I really love about these early episodes is getting to revisit the beginning of Jim and Pam.

00:02:20 Speaker_05
Yeah.

00:02:20 Speaker_06
Yeah. And if you want even more of that, There is a super duper cute Jim and Pam deleted scene for this episode. It's on the DVDs.

00:02:32 Speaker_06
Okay, so do you remember how Dwight made a sign to hang on the conference room door while he was working on the health care plan?

00:02:39 Speaker_05
Yes, Dwight Schrute Workspace. Very official.

00:02:43 Speaker_06
Well, I guess he made a few other signs before he settled on that one and he put them all in the trash and Pam and Jim take the trash can and they go sit together and they go through it and they read all the other ones.

00:02:55 Speaker_06
It is just cutesy, cutesy stuff. I mean, it's just an excuse to flirt with one another, really. It's those early days when they just did anything so they could be together. Yes.

00:03:05 Speaker_06
I also loved watching it because you see our original location when you watch it. It's outside on this little tiny balcony overlooking the parking lot that does not exist once we move to the sound stages. Yeah.

00:03:19 Speaker_06
And you see a whole different view, but I really want to play it for you guys. It's super cute.

00:03:23 Speaker_05
We stole Dwight's trash can and we found some of his early attempts at his sign.

00:03:28 Speaker_02
Okay, this is very simple. Dwight's workspace. Nice. This one's interesting. The power comes from the font in this one. Schrute space. Very medieval. Very England. This one's forceful. This one's very Dwight. Quiet! Dwight Schrute working. It's good.

00:03:52 Speaker_02
I really heard him on that. This one's interesting. I'm not really sure what he meant by this. Dwight Schrute, privates. Tough to say.

00:04:07 Speaker_06
You are so stinking cute in this scene, Jenna. I mean, I left you a message and I was like, you would win cutest in the office, Dundee, like truly.

00:04:16 Speaker_05
My job in that scene is mostly just to look at Jim with just sparkle eyes. I'm so enamored and just so tickled. He makes me laugh. He's so funny. That was basically what I'm doing.

00:04:30 Speaker_06
Young actors, if you want to watch a scene on how to just be in the moment and be adorable, go watch this deleted scene.

00:04:37 Speaker_05
Oh, my gosh. You're being so sweet, Angela. It's true. I thought it was adorable. Well, in our breakdown of this episode, we talk about how this idea of Dwight taking over the conference room was a nod to the second episode of The British Office.

00:04:50 Speaker_05
And that Jim Pam scene that you just played, it was actually borrowed from their episode. Don and Tim go through discarded conference room signs. It's super cute when they do. it too. And here's another little tidbit. This episode ends with major cringe.

00:05:07 Speaker_05
Michael has promised everyone a big surprise and everyone's pretty grumpy because they end up getting a crappy health care plan and ice cream sandwiches.

00:05:19 Speaker_05
Paul Lieberstein did an interview where he shared that the final scene of this health care episode was scripted as, quote, the longest pause in television history.

00:05:31 Speaker_05
which I just love their fascination in these early seasons with creating the longest pauses.

00:05:37 Speaker_06
Just leaning into the awkward. Well, we had to look it up, and here's how it's described in the shooting draft. I'm going to read you the stage direction for the scene, OK? So Michael says, OK, well, I have news for you. There is a big surprise.

00:05:53 Speaker_06
And the big surprise dot, dot, dot is dot, dot, dot. And here's the stage direction. We now experience the longest silent beat in network television history. Michael is blank. No one is willing to let him off the hook.

00:06:09 Speaker_06
We check in with everyone's expression. It's excruciating. Oscar gets fed up, puts on his coat, and drifts away. After a beat, Meredith and Angela shake their heads sadly and leave. Michael is now flop sweating a tiny bit, still silent.

00:06:27 Speaker_06
Kevin and Kelly drift away, followed by Toby. Stanley, as he walks out, glares at Michael. Michael turns away. Jim looks at Pam like, can you believe this? Pam stares back, still upset at him. She leaves.

00:06:43 Speaker_06
Jim, stung a bit, waits a second and then follows her out. Slowly, everyone else leaves. Dwight is standing next to Michael. After a final beat, Dwight says, oh, Jan wants you to call her. And Dwight walks away.

00:07:00 Speaker_05
Yes. You know, we talk about shooting that scene in our breakdown, but I am not sure that we cover how truly impressive it is that Steve somehow manages to make himself start sweating. Yes, you feel his body, like, temperature.

00:07:17 Speaker_06
You, like, see him, like, starting to break out in, like, little beads of sweat.

00:07:21 Speaker_05
Yes, I rewatched it. It's really incredible.

00:07:25 Speaker_05
And we should say that while we did stand there for about two and a half minutes of silence, all just staring at him, and then we did exactly what the stage direction said, in the episode, they cut back and forth to talking heads, so you don't really ever have, like, two and a half minutes of silence.

00:07:43 Speaker_05
Yeah, you have Michael's talking head in the middle. Mm-hmm. There is a lot of awkward silence, but I think Booze Cruise still gets the award for longest silence on the show.

00:07:53 Speaker_06
Yes.

00:07:54 Speaker_05
Not quite as cringy.

00:07:56 Speaker_06
But definitely uncomfortable. But definitely uncomfortable silence. So there you have it, you guys. Office Ladies 6.0 is off for Thanksgiving break this week. But we will see you back next Monday for a second drink of the Alliance.

00:08:09 Speaker_06
And we have some fun new tidbits.

00:08:15 Speaker_05
I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on The Office together. And we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office re-watch podcast just for you.

00:08:24 Speaker_06
Each week, we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you. We're The Office Ladies. Hey, welcome back to Office Ladies. It is Angela Kinsey. And Jenna Fischer.

00:08:38 Speaker_06
And we're going to be talking today about healthcare.

00:08:41 Speaker_05
Healthcare, one of my favorite episodes from season one.

00:08:45 Speaker_06
I love it. I love this episode because to me it's the office at its best because it's ordinary people doing ordinary things and it all goes south.

00:08:53 Speaker_05
And it's big stakes, because having a job that has good health care is everything. So yes, today we are talking about Season 1, Episode 3, Health Care. It was written by Paul Lieberstein, who plays Toby Slenderson. Toby. Yes.

00:09:09 Speaker_05
And directed by Ken Whittingham.

00:09:11 Speaker_06
I love Ken.

00:09:12 Speaker_05
And we love Ken.

00:09:13 Speaker_06
Ken is the tall, gentle man. Like, he is just, like, so sweet and kind. Oh, you and I would talk to Ken all the time. All the time. Yeah. Probably, like, too much. Like, he probably at some point was like, uh, ladies, I have work to do.

00:09:26 Speaker_06
And we're like, hi, Ken. He's just so lovely.

00:09:29 Speaker_05
We had Ken back a lot. Over the entire nine seasons, he directed nine episodes of The Office, including Phyllis' wedding.

00:09:37 Speaker_06
Yes. You just had a little bit of St. Louis there. I did. I hear it every once in a while, but you said, over. Oh, is that a St. Louis thing? I don't know, but you say some words, like, different. I think it's St. Louis.

00:09:48 Speaker_05
The biggest St. Louis thing that I don't do, but that Phyllis does, speaking of Phyllis, is Farty Far. Oh. So we have a highway there called Highway 44. Yeah. They call it Farty Far, and you eat with a fark.

00:10:01 Speaker_06
Yeah. Sometimes Rain and Phyllis sat back to back. You know? Yeah. And every once in a while, Rain would just turn around to Phyllis and say, Phyllis, say 44. And she would like, Phyllis, like when she gets really tickled, she snorts when she laughs.

00:10:13 Speaker_06
So she'd be like, farty far. OK. All right. Keep going.

00:10:18 Speaker_05
All right. Well, let me do a summary of health care. It's pretty simple. Jan tells Michael that he needs to pick a cheaper health care plan for his employees to help prevent downsizing.

00:10:28 Speaker_05
Michael gives the job to Dwight and then hides in his office all day because he knows Oh yeah. No one is going to want their health care slashed.

00:10:35 Speaker_06
This is classic Michael passing the buck.

00:10:37 Speaker_05
For sure.

00:10:37 Speaker_06
Which you're going to see over and over and over in the lifetime of the show.

00:10:40 Speaker_05
So after Dwight picks a plan that slashes almost all the benefits and the entire office revolts, Michael promises us a surprise. Very big.

00:10:50 Speaker_06
Yes. Which is what you do with your children when you have to give them bad news, but there's going to be a surprise. It's so true.

00:10:57 Speaker_05
And what I think is interesting is that everyone is skeptical, but also like, well, maybe there is a surprise. It's so sad. There could be a surprise.

00:11:05 Speaker_06
It's a little bit like Charlie Brown kicked the football, like, you know, when Lucy kept doing that. I feel like they're like, there's no way he's going to come through. But maybe because we hate our job so much. So maybe there'll be something nice.

00:11:16 Speaker_05
Something's going to happen. But then Michael has to spend the entire rest of the day scrambling to come up with something.

00:11:22 Speaker_06
Yeah.

00:11:23 Speaker_05
And what he comes up with is.

00:11:24 Speaker_06
Oh. Just nothing.

00:11:26 Speaker_05
It's a whole lot of nothing.

00:11:27 Speaker_06
Just nothing. Yes. All right, Jenna, do you want to do some fast facts?

00:11:31 Speaker_05
You know I do Angela. I know you do. You know it.

00:11:34 Speaker_05
All right, so my first fast fact is that after the pilot episode, which we talked about was pretty much a word for word adaptation of the British pilot because this was a British television show before it was an American television show.

00:11:48 Speaker_00
Yes.

00:11:48 Speaker_05
After that, we started writing all original episodes. So Diversity Day was all original. It was our story. And this is all original with the exception of a little wink, a little nod to the British show.

00:12:00 Speaker_06
What, Trivia Master? What?

00:12:02 Speaker_05
I know! So in an episode of The British Office, their Dwight character, whose name is Gareth, He gets to lead an investigation into some dirty emails that came into the office.

00:12:15 Speaker_05
And so he takes over the conference room, and he even puts a little sign on the window. And that is the little thing that we stole for this episode, is that Dwight is going to do that same thing.

00:12:27 Speaker_06
He's going to take over the conference room.

00:12:29 Speaker_05
Yes. But in this case, it is to pick a new health care plan for the company. So we did that from time to time.

00:12:35 Speaker_05
We just do like these little nods to the British show, which I always think are kind of fun, especially because there were people who were huge fans of the original who were then watching our show, and that was like a little treat.

00:12:47 Speaker_06
Well, I like it. I like where your head's at starting out this episode.

00:12:51 Speaker_05
You like it?

00:12:52 Speaker_06
With some really good trivia, Jenna. I like where you're going. I like it. I've got my note cards ready, lady. Do you want to hit me with a note card or shall I continue with fast facts? No, no, no.

00:13:01 Speaker_05
Do your fast facts. I got some note cards waiting for you, though. All right. Well, this is a fast fact, and it's actually something, Angela, that you pointed out. Oh. Is it a Kinsey fast fact? It's a Kinsey fast fact. OK.

00:13:14 Speaker_05
That this is the first time we see Devon and Crete at their desks.

00:13:17 Speaker_06
Oh, yes. Yes, I love spotting little things in the background. You are, I'm gonna label you our background expert.

00:13:24 Speaker_05
No, don't, I'm not the expert. You are, but you notice those things. You really notice continuity stuff. Was it because you spent so much time in the background, Angela?

00:13:32 Speaker_06
Is that a dig? No, we all did. I'm totally kidding. No, we did, but I'm like. All right, Ms. Front Reception, let me tell you something. Back in accounting corner, we notice shiitake, okay? We notice things.

00:13:45 Speaker_05
No, but you were always lurking back there. Lurking? Now I'm a lurker? I thought maybe, you know, you're noticing more of what's happening back there.

00:13:55 Speaker_06
Some real truths coming out today. You know what I noticed in this episode? That Jim has an E.T. on his desk.

00:14:02 Speaker_05
An E.T. doll. A little extraterrestrial doll? Yes, E.T. See what I'm saying? This is a Kinsey background observation.

00:14:09 Speaker_06
He's wearing, he's got a little E.T. on his desk and the E.T. is wearing like a blue coat. I have never noticed that. I know, it's at, it's at, for you guys watching, it's at 14 minutes around 35 seconds. There's an E.T.

00:14:22 Speaker_06
on Jim's desk and I'm like, what the heck? I don't remember that E.T. Okay, anyway, see if you see E.T. at 14 minutes. Wow, see what I'm saying? You did have a note card.

00:14:32 Speaker_05
I have a ton of note cards. There you go. I have more. Okay, go. All right, Angela, here's my last fast fact. And this is something I learned when I was doing my prep for this episode and I listened to the DVD commentary.

00:14:44 Speaker_05
So this is the third episode of season one. However, we shot it sixth. What? Yeah, so I remember we shot the pilot and then we waited like six months to see if we got picked up. Yeah.

00:15:00 Speaker_05
And then when we did get picked up, the writers had turned in, like they had all their scripts ready for season one because there were only five more to do. That's right. We only did six. We did not shoot them in the same order in which they aired.

00:15:13 Speaker_05
So when we finished this episode, we all said goodbye.

00:15:18 Speaker_06
Oh my gosh, do you know that?

00:15:19 Speaker_05
I remember that now.

00:15:21 Speaker_06
That puts a whole different filter on it now, re-watching it, because I feel like we were really loosey-goosey in this episode. I mean, we're going to talk about it, but a few of us just full-on laugh, and it's in the episode.

00:15:32 Speaker_06
But we were really, we were a tight-knit group by the time we were filming this.

00:15:37 Speaker_05
We had all become friends.

00:15:38 Speaker_06
Yeah, we were all pals at this time.

00:15:39 Speaker_05
And I think it shows in the episode.

00:15:41 Speaker_05
And I think that might also be why I have such a warm place in my heart for this episode, because when we were filming this episode, we really believed, we really, really believed that this was the last one we would ever do.

00:15:54 Speaker_06
Oh, for sure. I thought we were not coming back at all. And I had my name, like, they printed out our name on paper, but then laminated it for our trailer door. Yeah, with a little bit of Velcro, and that was on our trailer door.

00:16:08 Speaker_06
And I took my little laminated piece of paper that said my name.

00:16:11 Speaker_05
I still have it. I still have it. You know what I did? What? I made a mixtape. Oh my God. I made a mixtape and I called it something like Scranton sounds. Sounds of Scranton. Sounds of Scranton. And I gave it to John, Rain, Steve,

00:16:32 Speaker_05
and BJ along with a tiny homemade scrapbook of some photos.

00:16:38 Speaker_06
And then you said, hi, 1994 called. They want my mixtape back. I'm sure those guys were like, this is the girliest present I've ever been given.

00:16:50 Speaker_06
I just picture you giving that mixtape to people and some people like they don't even have a tape player in their car. No one, it was a CD.

00:16:58 Speaker_05
Okay, a mixed CD. I call it mixed tape.

00:17:00 Speaker_06
Okay, I pictured an actual.

00:17:01 Speaker_05
No, it wasn't a cassette. It was a CD I am certain if I had to bet money I am certain no one ever listened to it. Oh, I listen to it all the time

00:17:13 Speaker_06
You listened to it in your car ride because it was the sounds of Scranton for you.

00:17:16 Speaker_05
It was the sounds of Scranton. This is real. So my commute to where we filmed the first season of The Office was very long. It was over an hour because I lived in the San Fernando Valley and we shot in Culver City.

00:17:26 Speaker_05
And if you live in Los Angeles or have ever been here, that is a very long commute in the mornings. And I wanted to quote-unquote get in character. So I wanted to pretend like I was driving in Scranton. So I wanted some sounds of Scranton.

00:17:42 Speaker_06
Did you like research what people were listening to in Scranton?

00:17:46 Speaker_05
I didn't.

00:17:47 Speaker_06
How do you know the sounds of Scranton?

00:17:48 Speaker_05
You know what? I really don't. I'm going to say I made a lot of assumptions. And I kind of went back to my college days, and I had some classic rock and a little bit of Garth Brooks.

00:18:00 Speaker_05
But now that I'm saying it, I realize I don't really know what East Coast people listen to. So whatever, it put me in a headspace.

00:18:10 Speaker_06
Okay. Well, I just want you to know, I want The Sounds of Scranton on our website. I'm going to look for it. I want the playlist.

00:18:17 Speaker_05
I bet I still have it.

00:18:18 Speaker_06
Also, I want to know if it was... It's going to be embarrassing. If it was a CD, I want to know, did you make a little cover and write out each song or did you type them out and print it? Is there a photo? What's the cover of the CD?

00:18:28 Speaker_05
The cover of the CD is a collage of different pictures. that remind me of Scranton.

00:18:38 Speaker_06
Wait, wait, wait. And it's printed on the back. No, wait, please stop. Please stop. These aren't photos of people on the show. No. They're images of Scranton that you got from the computer, you got from the internet.

00:18:53 Speaker_05
And it's a collage.

00:18:55 Speaker_06
And so they're photos of Scranton. Yes. And it's called Sounds of Scranton. Right.

00:18:58 Speaker_05
You are the biggest dork I know. And I would listen to it on my drive to get into the character of Pam.

00:19:04 Speaker_06
Oh my God. And then I would go to work. This is all why I love you. This is why I love you because I want to be best friends with a person that prints images of places in script and makes a collage and then makes up a CD.

00:19:19 Speaker_05
As I'm telling this story now, it's occurring to me that when you live in a city, you don't make a tribute CD of the city you live in. I lived in St. Louis my whole life, and I never drove around with a CD called Sounds of St. Louis.

00:19:34 Speaker_06
Well, I'm going to now. Sounds of Los Angeles.

00:19:37 Speaker_05
Let's make it. I didn't know what to give as a wrap gift. That's a thing. Do people know that?

00:19:42 Speaker_05
When you finish a series, when you finish a season of a show, it's sort of customary to give out little presents to your cast members or to some of your crew members. And so I really did not know what to give out.

00:19:54 Speaker_05
You know, Kate Flannery, I gave out Sounds of Scranton. Kate Flannery had these Dunder Mifflin candles made. Do you remember that? I have it. I still have it. I have it. Yeah. And she gave out like a Dunder Mifflin candle.

00:20:06 Speaker_05
But we really gifted, we were like, we're done.

00:20:09 Speaker_06
I got everyone to sign my script, so I still have that, and that's really cool. And Kate gave me a photo of her and I standing at our trailers, because we shared a trailer.

00:20:19 Speaker_06
Kate and I had a trailer, and just the only thing between our toilets was like a plastic accordion door. So if I sat on my toilet and she sat on hers, our knees touched. So we made a vow to never use our toilets. We were like, we just can't. We can't.

00:20:35 Speaker_06
That's just not going to happen. I remember that you remember our accordion didn't even really shut. So we just opened it and just shared basically one room with two toilets.

00:20:47 Speaker_05
Well, when I think back to that time, I remember having anxiety about I mean, I've just had the most thrilling experience of my acting life. I had been a struggling actor for eight years before I got my job on The Office.

00:21:01 Speaker_05
I'd never had a regular role on anything. I'd done pilots, but they never got picked up. So this was my first series. And I thought, well, what do I do? If this show gets canceled, I guess I just go back to the beginning.

00:21:15 Speaker_05
I mean, we could have all had to go back and get day jobs again.

00:21:18 Speaker_06
I mean, so Kate Flannery and I both, we did not quit our day jobs for the first season of The Office. Oh, I remember that!

00:21:26 Speaker_06
Kate Flannery was still a waitress at Kate Manolini and Beverly Hills, and so she would work on The Office and then she'd go wait tables. I remember that. Yeah. And I was working at iOS, which is an improv theater, and I was helping run the office.

00:21:41 Speaker_06
And I stayed on and would help. Yeah. I just would have gone back to helping run a theater and improv classes. And I ran the intern program. I fired someone who's now famous, one of my interns. Who, can you say? He's a lovable person, and I love him.

00:21:54 Speaker_06
Tell me. So this was my intern who was always late. He was always late. The higher-ups said, okay, you can be late three times, and then you get fired. As an intern, his job was to keep the restroom clean? He had to come early, set up the box office.

00:22:10 Speaker_06
We needed him there early. And he was late a lot, but I really liked him. And then finally, they were like, you're gonna have to fire him. So he walks in one day, and his name is Derek Waters. Creator of drunk history. Creator of drunk history.

00:22:22 Speaker_06
And he walked in and he was really late. And I was like, hey, Derek. And he was like, hey, Angela, are you going to fire me today? And I was like, I am. And he goes, OK.

00:22:33 Speaker_05
Oh my gosh, Angela, he told me this story. I wrote a book, everyone plug, The Actor's Life, A Survival Guide. Check it out. Nice flex. Local bookstores, check it out.

00:22:44 Speaker_05
I wrote a book and I interviewed Derek in the book and he told me the story of being fired from IO. I did not know it was you that fired him. It was me. Well, it's still very much on his mind because he mentioned it in an interview.

00:22:58 Speaker_06
I know, but anyway, I would just go back to running a theater basically. I have something, so I know health care is about the office, finding a good health care plan, and the downsizing.

00:23:10 Speaker_06
I know the overall arc of this episode, but I just want you to know I have started calling this episode the Pam Sass. The Pam Sass. Uh-huh. And it's gonna come up throughout this episode where Pam is super sassy. Well, well. Uh-huh.

00:23:26 Speaker_06
It starts off right away when Michael comes up to you and you say, I'm not making any copies. You're sassy out of the gate, lady. And then you say, oh, do you want me to repeat the messages for the... And you look to camera. I have many more

00:23:42 Speaker_06
as we go through this episode.

00:23:43 Speaker_05
What were you, did I piss you off before you watched this episode? No! And then you're just looking for sass moments?

00:23:51 Speaker_06
I am not! Listen, you rewatch it and right away, you're just like, you are here, like, you are not here to mess around.

00:23:58 Speaker_05
I'm sorry, you try having a boss like Michael Scott and see what kind of mood it puts you in.

00:24:02 Speaker_06
Well, you were sassy in this one. I was matter of fact. Pam sass.

00:24:06 Speaker_05
Oh my goodness. Okay, go, go on, what's out, what else is there? That's it. All right, lady, I think we should take a break. I think we should, but I think we should tell everyone that when we come back from our break, we're gonna have a special guest.

00:24:15 Speaker_05
Well, I think you just told them. I did. It's gonna be a tall drink of water. Mm-hmm. Mr. Rainn Wilson. Yes! This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.

00:24:32 Speaker_06
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00:24:47 Speaker_06
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00:25:34 Speaker_03
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00:26:03 Speaker_08
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00:26:36 Speaker_05
It's time to break down the healthcare episode. Let's do it. All right, we're going to go a little rogue here. Okay. We're going to do a phone call with Rainn Wilson. With Rainn Wilson.

00:26:46 Speaker_05
Yeah, there were just too many things about this episode that were Dwight-centered, and we had a lot of questions from fans that I think we needed to go straight to the source. We agreed.

00:26:55 Speaker_06
We agreed, and Rainn said yes, and we're so thrilled. So we're going to talk to Rainn. We're going to call him. Let's call Rainn.

00:27:06 Speaker_04
Hello.

00:27:07 Speaker_05
Is this Rainn Wilson? Hey, Rainn.

00:27:09 Speaker_04
It is Rainn Wilson.

00:27:10 Speaker_05
Rainn Wilson? It's Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. What's up, fella? How are you?

00:27:15 Speaker_04
Thanks for doing this. I'm great, guys. Yeah? I'm really good. I'm launching a podcast this week called Metaphysical Milkshake. Oh! And I'm doing that with Reza Aslan.

00:27:26 Speaker_05
And is this in coordination with SoulPancake?

00:27:28 Speaker_04
It is, yes, and it's life's big questions of, you know, philosophy and psychology and spirituality. sociology, and we're talking to some of the world's greatest minds with some super interesting stories. I love that. And that launches very soon.

00:27:46 Speaker_05
That is so you, Rain. That is so you. That is so great. You are the person I go to with all of those questions in life. We can tell people. I have called you on occasion sobbing. You are my person that I trust with those big life moments.

00:28:01 Speaker_05
So this makes total sense.

00:28:02 Speaker_04
That's so sweet.

00:28:03 Speaker_05
It's true.

00:28:04 Speaker_04
That's so sweet. And I call you anytime I have an issue in the kitchen or anything with cooking or bread, anything yeast related whatsoever.

00:28:11 Speaker_06
I will say this though, Rainn, you know what I love is that you do reach out to Jenna and I in times when you're definitely wanting love and support. And I love that we are all there for each other like that. It's true.

00:28:24 Speaker_04
You guys are like the sisters that I never had.

00:28:28 Speaker_06
We've talked about you a little bit, like how you would look at us and say, like, look at them. They're just like, they're two hens, like, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck, cluck. They will not stop talking.

00:28:35 Speaker_04
I mean, if the listeners could only know what those conversations were like on the set. I mean, it's just like, I made the best lasagna. You did? I love lasagna. One time I went to Italy, I had lasagna. You know you went to Italy? I've been to Spain once.

00:28:53 Speaker_04
I like Spain. Spain is so handsome. Do you like ham? I love ham.

00:28:58 Speaker_06
They weren't even that interesting, Rayne. They weren't even that interesting. That's way more interesting. That is like way more fascinating than anything we ever talked about for hours on end.

00:29:09 Speaker_07
That's fantastic.

00:29:11 Speaker_06
It's so true. OK. Well, we have some questions for you about the health care episode. We do. All right.

00:29:17 Speaker_05
Go. So we're talking to you about the health care episode, which is appropriate because this is a Dwight A. Storyline. Big storyline.

00:29:25 Speaker_06
Your first real big one, right?

00:29:27 Speaker_04
Wow. Thanks, guys. Thanks for the support. Yeah. From 2004? Yeah. Thank you.

00:29:32 Speaker_06
Hey, you did some great stuff a decade ago.

00:29:38 Speaker_04
It's true.

00:29:39 Speaker_05
All right, so I want to ask you, Rainn, just what comes to mind for you when you first think of the health care episode?

00:29:47 Speaker_04
That was the first episode that I remember that we spent an inordinate amount of time in the conference room.

00:29:52 Speaker_05
Yeah.

00:29:53 Speaker_04
And I remember saying hot dog fingers.

00:29:56 Speaker_06
Hot dog fingers. Which totally made us break. And they left it in the episode. Rain, I full on start laughing. And then Brian breaks character and points to me and starts laughing. And it's still in the episode.

00:30:09 Speaker_05
That is your real laughing in that.

00:30:10 Speaker_06
That's me really laughing.

00:30:12 Speaker_04
It's true. They left in the edit you guys breaking, you guys cracking over these diseases. It's truly hysterical. But I do remember saying to Kate Flannery, didn't I say like, You had your vagina removed, and she's like, it was a hysterectomy.

00:30:26 Speaker_04
It was my uterus or something like that.

00:30:27 Speaker_06
I still have a vagina.

00:30:29 Speaker_05
Yes, that was in the conference room. But when you first come out, this is a frequently asked fan question, which is, did you guys improvise the fake diseases, or were they scripted?

00:30:41 Speaker_05
And I remember that there were scripted fake diseases, but then at a certain point, Just Paul and the director and other writers came down and they were just handing you a piece of paper with improvised fake diseases.

00:30:58 Speaker_05
And none of us knew you were going to say hot dog fingers. It was a complete and utter surprise. That was not in the script. Do you remember that?

00:31:05 Speaker_04
Yes, so that's exactly, there were some very funny ones that were scripted and, uh, nano robot micro invasion or whatever that one was, that was in there and a lot of great ones were in there, but yeah, they kept feeding the other ones.

00:31:20 Speaker_04
It was very hard for me to keep a straight face. I broke all the time.

00:31:24 Speaker_06
I know. I remember thinking, how are we going to have any usable takes? I didn't know. Because we all kept laughing.

00:31:30 Speaker_04
You know, you get to a certain point in laughing when you just cross a line where you've just been tickled too much and you just can't bring it back. Yes. That happened.

00:31:38 Speaker_04
You know, that happened maybe, like, I won't say every episode, but every two to three episodes that kind of happened for me. And it absolutely happened in this one. But my friend Kevin, Kevin Isola, who's an actor in New York, he

00:31:53 Speaker_04
He was visiting the set and he was the one who actually threw out Hot Dog Fingers.

00:31:56 Speaker_05
Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Kevin!

00:31:59 Speaker_04
That's his claim to fame, yeah.

00:32:02 Speaker_05
His claim to fame. I hope he has a shirt that just says Hot Dog Fingers.

00:32:06 Speaker_04
I mean, I feel like we... I am going to buy him that shirt right now. Send that to him. That would be a really good... That would be a really good shirt. It would be.

00:32:14 Speaker_06
Wouldn't it? Yeah. Hot dog fingers. Rainn, you have one of my favorite talking heads in this episode. I mean, there's so many. You have so many good ones over the years, but this is like the one, definitely season one, that is like... It sort of is.

00:32:27 Speaker_05
the quintessential in for Dwight.

00:32:30 Speaker_06
Yes, it's the lion. Your whole, like, like your whole rant about in the wild there is no health care, in the wild health care is like, ow, I hurt my leg.

00:32:39 Speaker_05
Should we play it? Do you want us to play it, Rain? Do you want to hear it? We have that ability here. We're really high tech.

00:32:43 Speaker_04
Yeah, I love it. Yeah.

00:32:44 Speaker_05
You want to listen to yourself deliver a great talking head?

00:32:48 Speaker_01
I do. In the wild. There is no healthcare. In the wild, healthcare is, ow, I hurt my leg. I can't run. A lion eats me and I'm dead. Well, I'm not dead. I'm the lion. You're dead.

00:33:07 Speaker_06
I love that so much. Oh my gosh.

00:33:10 Speaker_04
The only thing I'll say about that one was, you know, we were really establishing Dwight and his logic and how seriously he took himself.

00:33:21 Speaker_04
and these kind of rules that Dwight started to develop where he's very hierarchical and status and like, this is how things must be done. But he has a completely different set of rules than other people do. Just how he sees the world.

00:33:40 Speaker_04
And so one of the things I think that has given the character enduring appeal is he sees the world in a very clear way with these kind of Stratum hierarchy of rights and wrongs and moralities and how things work and how they should work.

00:33:59 Speaker_04
And they're very severe. And this is one of the first talking heads that kind of like dove, delved into that world of Dwight. And it's all Paul Lieberstein. He wrote that and he was very happy with it. He was so excited to kind of help.

00:34:14 Speaker_04
He really helped direct. He wasn't directing the episode. but he was right there kind of getting a ton of notes on different inflections and ways to say it.

00:34:24 Speaker_06
Oh, wow. Interesting, interesting. Okay, this is totally random, but Rain, in re-watching this, during that talking head, you're passing out the new healthcare plan.

00:34:34 Speaker_06
You're tossing it to people, you're handing it around the office, and it looks like you have a lollipop in your mouth. There is a white stick sticking out of your mouth as you're passing all these papers out.

00:34:45 Speaker_05
Angela, you should know something about this podcast, Rain, which is that Angela is constantly picking up on these weird little details.

00:34:52 Speaker_06
Well, I'm just like, what the heck? When I rewatched, I'm like, does rain as Dwight is, are you sucking on a lollipop as you're passing this out? Cause that's brilliant.

00:35:00 Speaker_04
I have no memory of that whatsoever, but I think maybe I was. Yeah.

00:35:06 Speaker_06
Well, look around four minutes, 50 seconds. You'd like have, it looks like a lollipop in your mouth.

00:35:11 Speaker_05
Four minutes. It's 30 seconds.

00:35:13 Speaker_06
No, 50. Around 50 seconds. 50 seconds. You're just flippantly passing these papers, though, sucking on a lollipop. I thought it was really cool and powerful. I don't know.

00:35:22 Speaker_05
I loved it. That was amazing. Well, this leads us into the scene with Jim and Pam confronting Dwight about picking a horrible plan, where he slashed all the benefits.

00:35:33 Speaker_05
You have all those other great Dwightisms, where you say you've never been sick, that you have an amazing immune system, to which You know, we ask you, how can you have a great immune system if you've never been sick?

00:35:45 Speaker_05
And it's just, you have great genes. And that's when you say that you can raise and lower your cholesterol at will. And I say, why would you want to raise your cholesterol? And you say, so I can lower it. I remember shooting that scene with you.

00:36:01 Speaker_05
And I remember that was the couplet that I couldn't get through. Why would you? That was the one that got me. And that was a question from a fan, actually.

00:36:11 Speaker_05
Christopher said, how many times did it take for you and Rain to get through the cholesterol scene? And I can't remember how many times, but it was a lot, Christopher.

00:36:20 Speaker_04
Yeah, it's funny how in history, looking back on The Office, there are these quotes that pop out that become like the classic quotes of the character.

00:36:31 Speaker_04
And it's, it's interesting that, you know, for Dwight, there's like 15 or 20 kind of Dwightisms that stand the test of time and that fans love to, you know, identity theft is not a joke, Jim, you know, some of these ones. And

00:36:47 Speaker_04
And the cholesterol one is definitely one of them.

00:36:50 Speaker_05
I feel like another one of those phrases that people talk about is the count choculitis. The scene when you are confronting Jim.

00:37:01 Speaker_05
But also something that ended up on the cutting room floor from this, where you actually had meetings with a bunch of people in the office. You shot something where you confronted Oscar. I think you had a meeting with him, didn't you, Angela?

00:37:14 Speaker_05
And it was very short. Where he asks you if you wrote the fake diseases. Because he goes through and like interviews people. Well, in your interview with Jim, you say, count choculatus. Why did you write that down, Jim?

00:37:29 Speaker_05
Is it because you know I love count chocula? I love the idea that you love Count Chocula, that that's what Dwight has for breakfast in the mornings, or maybe late at night while he's watching TV. Yeah, maybe it's a snack.

00:37:44 Speaker_04
Maybe he models himself after Count Chocula. Maybe he has an affinity for Count Chocula, the character, the person behind the cereal.

00:37:52 Speaker_06
Yeah. Yeah. Not even the cereal.

00:37:55 Speaker_05
It's not the cereal. That's right. He loves Count Chocula the cereal.

00:37:58 Speaker_04
The person. He's more just connected to actual Count Chocula. He relates to him. Yeah. Yeah.

00:38:05 Speaker_05
Well, you brought it up earlier. There's also the conference room scene when you start announcing ailments and you tell us that if we want it covered, we have to fess up and admit that it's a real disease.

00:38:18 Speaker_05
And that's when you have that bit with Meredith where she says, you say inverted penis. She said, do you mean vagina? Because if so, I want that covered. And then you bring up, I thought you didn't have a vagina. You had a hysterectomy.

00:38:34 Speaker_05
And then she has that great line. I still have a vagina.

00:38:37 Speaker_04
I think I improvised. I improvised that. And this was early on. We started to kind of like improvise a little bit more.

00:38:43 Speaker_05
Wait, you improvised that she had a hysterectomy?

00:38:45 Speaker_04
Did you improvise that?

00:38:46 Speaker_05
Because that pays off later in another episode.

00:38:50 Speaker_04
No, no, no, no, no. That was in there, the hysterectomy. But the line that I thought you didn't have a vagina Oh, because you- Was mine.

00:38:59 Speaker_06
Oh, okay. Yeah. That sounds like you. Isabel has been wanting to watch The Office reign, and I haven't let her yet, but now all of her friends have seen it in fifth grade, and so I let her watch this episode with me.

00:39:10 Speaker_04
In fifth grade, her friends have seen The Office?

00:39:12 Speaker_06
Her friends, oh my God, they're obsessed, yeah.

00:39:14 Speaker_04
Oh, that's when it starts now.

00:39:14 Speaker_06
That's when it starts. Fifth grade. Fifth grade.

00:39:17 Speaker_04
But fifth grade is young.

00:39:18 Speaker_06
Fifth grade is young, and so Isabel hasn't seen The Office, and I... didn't have her watch it because I didn't think it was age appropriate. And also, I just need to be mom. But she's getting more curious now, and so she loves the bloopers.

00:39:32 Speaker_06
So we've watched the bloopers because they were on YouTube. And then I was re-watching this episode, and she wanted to watch it. So I let her watch it with me. So her introduction to the office is health care. Oh, my goodness. And so anal fissures.

00:39:49 Speaker_06
That's it. That's it. Okay, so that that scene came up and she was like, Wait, mom, that's not a real thing. Is it? What is that? And I was like, Oh, God, it is a real thing.

00:39:59 Speaker_04
And then she's like, But if you ride on the New York, if you ride on the New York subway, they have ads up for anal fissures. There you go all about them.

00:40:06 Speaker_06
Well, Isabel turned to me and goes, does Brian have anal fissures? I'm like, no. No. Brian doesn't. Brian does not. Kevin does. Kevin does. And anyway, it was just sort of funny to watch the episode with her.

00:40:21 Speaker_05
Well, this is a little bit off the topic of health care, but a little on the topic of just how we're friends in real life. People ask that all the time. We're friends in real life, right, Rainn?

00:40:33 Speaker_04
Yes, yes, yes, we are, Jenna.

00:40:35 Speaker_05
Okay, we've gone to lunch. We text and talk to one another. Jenna, do you need affirming? Can I get this in writing? Do you need affirming? No, okay.

00:40:43 Speaker_05
No, that we're all friends in real life and that we shared so much of our lives doing this show for so long. I remember that your wife, Holiday, was pregnant with your son when we were shooting the pilot. Yes.

00:40:57 Speaker_05
And then I remember how he was born during an episode, but rain, I couldn't remember which episode it was.

00:41:04 Speaker_04
We were shooting to Walter. Walter was born during the hot girl person, first girl episode.

00:41:10 Speaker_07
Okay. Right.

00:41:12 Speaker_04
So they shot me out the first two days. They just were like, Oh, we'll just shoot all rain scenes on Monday and Tuesday. And then sure enough, late Tuesday night, Walter was born and it was horrific, ugly, difficult birth. And

00:41:27 Speaker_04
We were in the hospital emergency room and all that kind of stuff. You can read about that in my book, The Bassoon King.

00:41:33 Speaker_05
I did read about it in your book.

00:41:35 Speaker_04
Yes. Yes, I did. Available now.

00:41:36 Speaker_05
Mm-hmm.

00:41:37 Speaker_04
No, I wasn't talking to you two. I was talking to all the listeners out there.

00:41:40 Speaker_05
Listeners, if you want the full story, you can read about it in The Bassoon King.

00:41:43 Speaker_06
Go to GitRain's book, The Bassoon King. Yes.

00:41:46 Speaker_04
It's a very good book. So that was kind of crazy, and then I had a couple days off. I don't know. I think I just came in Monday.

00:41:52 Speaker_05
We shot out of order. Yeah. Hot Girl is the last episode that airs for season one, but we shot it in the middle. Healthcare was actually the last episode that we shot. And you had a little tiny Walter while you were shooting this episode.

00:42:10 Speaker_07
Yeah.

00:42:10 Speaker_05
And I remember you had to come back to work Monday. You only had what? You were so tired. Five days off after he was born.

00:42:18 Speaker_04
Yeah, we spent the whole weekend in the hospital. My wife was in the hospital for like four or five days, so we went home from the hospital maybe Sunday night or even that Monday morning, and I came to work on Monday for the next episode.

00:42:29 Speaker_04
You came to work. Oh my God, bless your heart.

00:42:30 Speaker_05
And I remember being worried. I remember just thinking, just being concerned. I hope that you guys are okay. Yeah. just emotionally with them.

00:42:37 Speaker_04
Yeah, everything worked out great. She's great. Walter's great. All aces.

00:42:41 Speaker_06
It's all aces. I remember the first time I met your wife was on when we were filming the pilot. And I remember how you introduced me to her. I'll never forget it. You said, this is my wife carrier of my seed. That's such a Dwight thing to say.

00:42:59 Speaker_06
And we were like, oh, nice to meet you. And she was like, yeah, hi, I'm Holly.

00:43:09 Speaker_04
The line blurs. Yeah, it definitely blurs between me and Dwight. And I think the line blurs between all of us and our characters in some regard.

00:43:17 Speaker_05
For sure. Rainn, thank you so much for talking with us on our podcast.

00:43:21 Speaker_04
Hey, this was great. I love the healthcare episode. And if you'll invite me back, I'll come into the studio and we can sit down and Just have high fives and iced tea.

00:43:30 Speaker_06
Let's do that. Yes, let's do that. And you guys, we have to all check out Rainn's new podcast, Metaphysical Milkshake.

00:43:36 Speaker_04
Yep.

00:43:37 Speaker_06
And Rainn, that is on what? Where do we find that?

00:43:40 Speaker_04
It's on Luminary. Luminary. Download the Luminary app and it'll be right on that Luminary app.

00:43:45 Speaker_06
Well, I can't wait to listen, Rainn. I love you so much. Thank you. We love you.

00:43:49 Speaker_04
I love you guys and miss you. I'm so happy you're doing this podcast and the fans are just going to love it.

00:43:55 Speaker_06
I hope so. All right, Rain. OK, come back. OK, we love you. Bye.

00:43:59 Speaker_04
OK. Bye. See you soon. Bye. Thanks, guys.

00:44:01 Speaker_06
Why is it every time we talk to someone from the show, I want to start to cry? Like, I'm like tearing up a little.

00:44:06 Speaker_05
I don't know. I think it's just that those relationships are so fundamental to us. Yes. They are like family. And it's a crew member, it's a cast member.

00:44:17 Speaker_06
It doesn't matter. It's just such a special chapter in our lives. And just hearing Rain's voice and him laughing at you and I being chatty, it just brought me straight back. Rain, thank you so much for coming on. That just made my day.

00:44:39 Speaker_05
Angela, I want to talk about something that was one of our other most popular questions, and it came from a fan, and it's something I was wondering about as well.

00:44:49 Speaker_05
When I watch this episode, it has to do with the accounting department, so this is for you. Paige O'Murphy asked, I love how you get to see the start of the dynamic between the accounting department and healthcare.

00:45:02 Speaker_05
And this is when you're leaving the conference room, and you say, you let them walk all over you. And I'm like, did you talk to him? Did you talk to him?

00:45:12 Speaker_06
And he's like, what was that? And I'm like, it was pathetic.

00:45:13 Speaker_05
You let him walk all over you.

00:45:15 Speaker_06
And Kevin's like, what are you guys talking about?

00:45:16 Speaker_05
And I'm like, nothing, Kevin. OK, so her question is, how much of that was you guys improvising, and how much was written? This is, to me, like the quintessential accounting department dynamic.

00:45:29 Speaker_06
Yes, this is on my note card, because to me, this really defined our corner this moment.

00:45:34 Speaker_05
Yeah, so let's watch it. And then I want to hear. I want to hear the real story.

00:45:45 Speaker_08
What was that?

00:45:46 Speaker_06
You let him walk all over you. It's just pathetic.

00:45:48 Speaker_08
What are you guys talking about?

00:45:50 Speaker_06
Nothing, Kevin. There it is. There it is. Okay, so we improvised that, and here's the thing that I learned really quickly on this show, and I learned it from our B camera operator, Matt Zohn. Okay.

00:46:03 Speaker_06
Matt was like, Ange, if you guys have bits, make them quick, and they have a chance of getting in the show. And so we had this moment where we were all walking back to our desks.

00:46:13 Speaker_06
And Oscar and I kind of improvised this moment where I'm like, did you talk to him? And he's like, what was that? And then we kind of just had this chitchat on the way. And our B camera operator got it.

00:46:23 Speaker_06
And he was like, guys, if you tighten that up, it'll make it in, I think, if you tighten it up. So we did. We had this back and forth. And then, of course, I had no idea that Brian was already walking up behind us.

00:46:35 Speaker_06
And so he was like, what are you talking about? So I was just like, nothing, Kevin. And it just sort of crystallized that, you know, like Oscar and I have this like weird sort of like office, like dysfunctional marriage in a way, you know?

00:46:48 Speaker_06
And that Kevin is like our child that we're like, just stay out of it. Leave him out of it. And it was just so fun that it made it in for us. That was really fun.

00:46:57 Speaker_05
How did that dynamic come together? Because I know you guys would have to get stuck in the background. We've established that. But for real, you did. And I know you guys are all comedic improv performers.

00:47:09 Speaker_06
Well, Oscar and I had done a show together. You know, we met well before The Office. I've talked about this before. We had done a sketch show together called Hot Towel. And we'd known each other a long time. We'd done The Groundlings together.

00:47:19 Speaker_06
And I think we just naturally fell into step with one another. I knew my character was always annoyed. That was your default. My baseline is I was always annoyed. And then just the way that Brian did Kevin, he seemed a little bit like the idiot.

00:47:36 Speaker_06
Yeah, he was, yeah. So pretty much if I had anyone I could go to about something, it was Oscar. And I was always annoyed, and I was always going to him, and he never had the answers I wanted. And then I just didn't want to even talk to Kevin.

00:47:49 Speaker_06
So that just sort of came about naturally, I think. And Oscar and I just picked up on all those cues.

00:47:55 Speaker_05
Well, I love that Greg and the directors gave our camera operators the license to pick up moments that they hadn't even been directed to pick up.

00:48:04 Speaker_05
Yeah, like they would keep one eye open on everything that was happening in the background and especially Matt. His job was to catch reactions and to catch these little moments that were happening off of the main action.

00:48:17 Speaker_05
And Matt went on to direct episodes in later seasons.

00:48:21 Speaker_06
Yes, he did. And our director of this episode, Ken Whittingham, was so great about letting us have that creative opportunity. So when he saw us do that as we walked away, he was like, yeah, yeah, keep doing that. And so he encouraged us.

00:48:35 Speaker_06
And then we used to joke that we would have just kept going and going. And so I'd be like, I'd have to say all, I would say all the time to Brian and Oscar, it's not, it's not our show guys. It's not our show. It's not our show.

00:48:48 Speaker_06
And then we had this whole like running bit that we did for years that there was an actual spinoff called Los Acantadores, Oscar, Angela, y Kevin. And it lived on Telemundo.

00:49:00 Speaker_05
That was our spin-off. Angela, that is actually a really good idea for a spin-off. The accountants. The accountants! And Creed. And Creed. The accountants and Creed. Well, I just think Creed has to work in every office. Yes! Somehow, right?

00:49:14 Speaker_05
Like, he's always there. I actually would like Creed to be in every project. I need a phone number. I need to call someone at NBC. Who are you calling?

00:49:20 Speaker_06
I don't know. I think this is gold. I actually would like Creed to just show up in every project I have for the rest of my life. Also, he texted me this morning and he really wants to come on the show.

00:49:29 Speaker_05
Well, he's coming on the show.

00:49:31 Speaker_06
Yeah, that's happening.

00:49:32 Speaker_05
I know exactly what episode, too. Oh, you've got it all figured out. Yeah, he needs to come on for the Halloween episode, which is the first episode that he speaks.

00:49:39 Speaker_06
No, Jenna, that is not the first episode that he speaks in.

00:49:43 Speaker_05
What?

00:49:44 Speaker_06
Yeah. Lady, look at my note card. He has a few lines in this episode of Health Care. What? Creed does not speak in Health Care. Yes, he does.

00:49:54 Speaker_05
No, he does not.

00:49:56 Speaker_06
Lady, you have to listen. Okay, so you know the scene when Michael calls the Lackawanna coal mine? Yes. He's calling because he's like, hey, is there some kind of ride there?

00:50:07 Speaker_06
And there's a voice that's like, well, it's an industrial elevator, it goes 300 feet into the ground really slowly. And Michael's like, what is there, a laser tag down there? And he's like, nope. Remember that guy? Yeah. It's Creed! What?

00:50:23 Speaker_05
Yes! The voice of the coal miner guy is Creed? Yeah!

00:50:27 Speaker_06
No way! Well, between the two of us, I'm sure someone out there caught this, but I was watching this episode with my daughter, and she was like, Mommy, that voice sounds familiar. And I was like, It does.

00:50:39 Speaker_06
The voice of the man that works at the coal mine sounded familiar to us. And I was like, oh my gosh, it's Creed. It's Creed. And I texted Creed, and he said, yeah, I was so excited.

00:50:49 Speaker_06
He said that Ken Kwapis, who was a friend of his, who was our director, he said, you know, Creed, why don't you read this? And Creed did, and they were really happy with it. And he really felt like that helped him sort of

00:51:02 Speaker_06
down the line for Halloween, because they already thought he was funny.

00:51:05 Speaker_05
And he is so funny. He's so funny.

00:51:07 Speaker_06
His timing is perfect. Perfect. Yes. But I want you to know, I said, Creed, oh my gosh, so that was your first speaking part on The Office was as that coal miner guy. Yeah. And he goes, no. What?

00:51:21 Speaker_07
I know.

00:51:22 Speaker_06
This is episode three. I know. I know. You don't know this, and I'm bouncing in my chair because you don't know this. Okay. The actual first time that Creed ever spoke was in Diversity Day. What? Yes. So,

00:51:37 Speaker_06
At the time, they needed some banter, and our first AD did not realize that Creed wasn't a series regular and didn't have a contract. That he was just a background player.

00:51:46 Speaker_05
Just a background player. And you're literally, like, the contract for background player is you are not allowed to speak. If you speak, there's a big bump in pay.

00:51:53 Speaker_06
And they have to pay you.

00:51:54 Speaker_05
Yeah.

00:51:54 Speaker_06
Creed said the AD said to him, can you fill in some banter with Phyllis? And Creed was like, you know me, Ange, I'm not shy. She said, so he has this banter with Phyllis and it made it in the episode.

00:52:06 Speaker_06
And then they realized they wanted to use it, but Creed wasn't officially under contract. So then they paid him and that is actually his first line. Well, my mind is blown.

00:52:16 Speaker_06
Your mind is blown because Creed actually had an improv line in Diversity Day that made it in the show. And that is the first time he spoke. The second time he spoke was the elevator shaft operator guy on the phone with Michael.

00:52:29 Speaker_06
And then Halloween, as we will get to, is his big, big moment.

00:52:32 Speaker_05
Yes. Oh, that is some good stuff.

00:52:35 Speaker_06
That was a good note card, lady.

00:52:37 Speaker_05
Very good note card. Okay, Angela, well, I have trivia. I have trivia. Why are you looking at me like that? I don't know. I have trivia.

00:52:45 Speaker_06
I'm feeling very smug with my Cree trivia. You are!

00:52:48 Speaker_05
Well, it was really good. All right, here's mine.

00:52:51 Speaker_05
You know the scene when Michael goes to the travel agent where he wants to try to get us the all-expense-paid trip to Atlantic City, where he says the thing about, like, isn't there a bus that takes you there and then you get all your meals comped?

00:53:05 Speaker_05
Everything's free. Everything's free. And the travel agent is like, yeah, I don't really know anything about that. You might want to just contact the casino directly. Do you know who played the travel agent?

00:53:17 Speaker_06
Is it his friend from college, Charlie Hartsock? Damn it! Angela! I remember that! I remember Steve was really excited because his friend from, you know, like his good friend was going to be on set that day. But you weren't there that day!

00:53:30 Speaker_06
I wasn't, Jenna, but Steve is my friend and he shared with me. Oh, man. Uh-huh.

00:53:36 Speaker_05
All right. Well, what else have you got? You got more note cards over there.

00:53:39 Speaker_06
You know what? Jenna, when I was watching this, I was like, oh my gosh, this episode in particular, I felt like we really saw that peep shot. And I know we're going to talk about it. The peep shot?

00:53:52 Speaker_05
The spy shot, Angela? I call it the peep shot. Well, please don't call it that to anyone else. It's called the spy shot. We're spying, we're not peeping.

00:54:03 Speaker_06
Excuse me, you call the background actors lurkers. So we're lurking and we're peeping. Okay, but it's just that shot where you go through the blinds, right? And we saw that a lot in this episode because Michael is hiding. He is hiding in his office.

00:54:17 Speaker_06
And one of my favorite ones, when you're being sassy, Oh my gosh, the peep and a sass. It's the peep and a Pam sass. So we're looking through the blinds and Michael is just playing with his truck. He's rolling the truck back and forth.

00:54:30 Speaker_05
And he's claiming that there's many calls coming in.

00:54:32 Speaker_06
Yeah, busy, busy, busy, busy. And Pam goes, still no one calling. Still no one calling.

00:54:38 Speaker_05
It's matter of fact. You find matter of factness to be sad.

00:54:41 Speaker_06
No, I think there's a little bit of sass on it. But yeah, so I thought, I love that you got to see how we spy on people through the camera, that we get to see these moments they don't know that we're seeing. Yeah. And you'll see it over and over.

00:54:54 Speaker_06
But when I watched the BBC version of this show, and then when I watched our version, those were the only shows doing that at this time.

00:55:03 Speaker_05
We were really trying to employ what you would do on an actual documentary, where you want to catch people when they're not aware they're being filmed. And we behave differently when we know we're being filmed or not.

00:55:16 Speaker_05
And so that was, we would use the spy shot when we needed to catch people. Or the peep shot, okay. Or the peep shot, as Angela's calling it. Moving on, moving on.

00:55:26 Speaker_06
All right, next card. Two observations about John in this episode. The first one has to do with his hair. John has a full-on bowl haircut in this. What? Yes. Sam, can you pull up a picture of John in this to show Jenna?

00:55:38 Speaker_06
I grew up in a small town, and some of these farm boys, they would just put a bowl on their head and cut their hair around it.

00:55:44 Speaker_05
What was that about?

00:55:45 Speaker_06
I don't know.

00:55:47 Speaker_05
Look at that, look at that, it's a bowl. Oh, it's 14 minutes and 19 seconds.

00:55:50 Speaker_06
I mean, that's- Full bowl. Full bowl, okay. And then the other thing I noticed about John is that John says D-white. He does say- He says D-white. D-white. I say Dwight, I say Dwight. He said, well, he doesn't say D-white, he says D-white. D-white, okay.

00:56:08 Speaker_06
D-white. John says D-white, D-white. D-white. D-white. Oh my God. John says, Dwight. And I say Dwight. I say Dwight. Dwight. But I absolutely love it now because it just makes me miss John. And every time I hear him say Dwight, it just makes me smile.

00:56:28 Speaker_06
So there are my two John observations.

00:56:30 Speaker_05
I have an observation about Jim. in this episode, which is, and actually, a fan pointed this out as well. I had noticed it, but I will give some props to the other person who noticed it, except I don't have their name written down, I'm sorry.

00:56:47 Speaker_05
Person out there, you know who you are. Which is that all of this could have been avoided if Jim had just taken 15 minutes and picked a plan. No, I know. The way he was asked in the beginning of the episode. Yes.

00:56:59 Speaker_05
I mean, he ends up having this fun, playful day with Pam. But if we're going to get real here, it cost him and everyone else in the office decent health care. On the other hand, in his defense, I will say, the task was to slash the health care.

00:57:15 Speaker_05
So I'm not sure he could have done much better than Dwight, but maybe he could have. Does that make him kind of not as charming? I don't know. This is an argument.

00:57:26 Speaker_06
I think what happens in this show is that Michael passes the buck to Jim, and Jim passes it to Dwight, and it happens over and over. It does. It does. And Jim is just like, listen, I don't get paid enough to do this.

00:57:37 Speaker_05
Yeah, well, and I think the argument really can be made that Jim knew it was inevitable. Like, what we ended up with is what we were going to end up with. Although, the other argument can be made that Dwight made it worse than it needed to be.

00:57:49 Speaker_06
OK, I have another note card. OK. OK, here it is. So one of the things I love about our props department is just all the little details in the back. And a great example of this is all of the motivational posters that you see around Dunder Mifflin.

00:58:06 Speaker_06
There's so many. They're brilliant. They're brilliant. I like to think that Michael Scott really thinks they're going to get everyone. to feel affirmed in their day. So there's one behind you in reception that just says teamwork.

00:58:19 Speaker_06
And it's a bunch of people. They've jumped out of a plane, and they're all locking arms. Teamwork. Teamwork. These are all over the office, though. At 15 minutes, 50 seconds around there, it flashes to the clock on the wall.

00:58:31 Speaker_06
And under the clock, you just see it says self-affirmations, self-esteem, and then you can't see what else it says, but I'm like, what is under the clock?

00:58:40 Speaker_05
What are all these self-affirmations? The detail work in our set design was incredible. It was. And that was Michael Gallenberg. He was our set designer. He was so amazing. And so many details.

00:58:50 Speaker_05
And then the props department would, any time there was some sheet of paper that we had to look at as a prop, it was a fully formed idea. You know, if there was a memo, they wrote out like a whole real fake memo and they were funny.

00:59:04 Speaker_05
Under Nifflin stationery. There's always funny little jokes hidden in them.

00:59:08 Speaker_06
And also, all around the office, if you're in the break room, the menus, the magnets on the fridge, they're all from Scranton. They reached out to local businesses in Scranton, and they all sent their items, and they're all throughout our office.

00:59:22 Speaker_06
Also, of course, Froggy 95.5, local Scranton radio. That's what should be your playlist. You should have just listened to some Froggy.

00:59:31 Speaker_05
I really should have. All right. This episode ends with Michael coming out of his office.

00:59:37 Speaker_05
He's successfully hidden in his office until 5 p.m., after 5 p.m., and the entire office is waiting to confront him, both about the horrible health care plan that Dwight picked and to finally find out, please, what is the surprise?

00:59:53 Speaker_05
Because he's come in So, attempting to surprise us with ice cream sandwiches.

00:59:57 Speaker_06
Oh, he about hit me in the head with an ice cream sandwich. I mean, Steve actually, like, the look on his face after that take, he was like, Angela, how close did that come? I was like, Steve, you pretty much almost hit me in the head with it.

01:00:09 Speaker_06
And he also announced so proudly, Operation Surprise. Yes. And so, we're like, okay, what is it? What is it?

01:00:17 Speaker_05
All he could come up with in his whole day was ice cream sandwiches. So now it's the end. And then he says that's not the surprise. It's surprising, but it is not the surprise. So at the end of the episode, you confront him.

01:00:29 Speaker_06
I do. I love it. I loved being the person that confronted him because Steve is so funny and he turned to me and he's like, yes, Angela.

01:00:37 Speaker_05
Thank you for reminding me. So you ask him point blank, what is the surprise, Michael? And then he says, the surprise is. And then he short circuits. He just stops talking.

01:00:52 Speaker_06
He just stops talking and just starts to have like upper lip sweat. Yeah. And we all are just looking at him. It is so awkward. It's so awkward.

01:01:02 Speaker_06
And I remember when we did it, like timing it out to that moment where we start to like slowly leave each person. Yes. And how long that felt.

01:01:12 Speaker_05
It felt so long. It really did, as we were standing there. And they had choreographed the order in which we would leave. And of course, we did many takes, so we would have to come back and reset. And I remember thinking, are we going to leave this?

01:01:28 Speaker_05
This is a giant pause with no dialogue. Is this going to be able to stand? Because that was not something you did on television shows. In fact, on television shows,

01:01:37 Speaker_05
especially comedies, it was pretty traditional to have like, set up, set up, joke, set up, set up, joke. And this was like a whole different rhythm. And so, yeah, I remember this. And I remember he just had to stand there.

01:01:50 Speaker_06
Oh, it was so awkward. And then when you watch it, it's so like cringey, but it's perfect. It's perfect. It's so good. And there's so many times, like when I watch episodes of The Office where I'm like, how does Michael come back from that?

01:02:03 Speaker_06
Like, I say that to myself, like, how does he come back the next day and be like? We all knew there was no surprise.

01:02:08 Speaker_05
We all knew, but man, we made him suffer through that pause. And then, best last line ever, after that suffering silence, Rain says, oh, Jan wants you to call her. So good. So good. That's health care, guys.

01:02:24 Speaker_06
That is health care. Thank you so much, Rainn Wilson, for calling in. And it was just so great to hear your voice. Oh, I'm just going to go listen to the sounds of Scranton. I'll be right back.

01:02:33 Speaker_05
I'll see you guys next week. See you next week when we do The Alliance. The Alliance. Oh, there's so much good stuff in that one. Not to be missed. Not to be missed.

01:02:46 Speaker_06
Thank you for listening to Office Ladies Second Drink.

01:02:49 Speaker_05
This episode was initially created in collaboration with Earwolf. Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

01:02:58 Speaker_06
Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins, and our audio engineer and associate producer is Daniela Silva. Odyssey's executive producers are Jenna Wise Berman and Leah Reese Dennis.

01:03:08 Speaker_05
Office Ladies is mixed and mastered by Chris Bazel. Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Brattain.