S2 Episode 4: The funeral home AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast Missing & Murdered: Finding Cleo

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Episode: S2 Episode 4: The funeral home

Author: CBC
Duration: 00:40:43

Episode Shownotes

The search for Cleo leads Connie to investigate a headstone belonging to a 13-year-old girl who died in 1978. The cemetery is more than 20 hours away from Arkansas, where Cleo's family has long believed she was killed.

For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/podcastnews/missing-murdered-season-2-finding-cleo-transcripts-listen-1.6733352

Summary

In "The funeral home," investigative reporter Connie Walker delves into the disappearance of Cleo, a Cree girl believed to have been abducted in the 1970s. The investigation leads to a grave site in New Jersey linked to Cleo Almedonia, who died in 1978. As Connie and her team uncover disturbing parallels and explore burial records, they confront the complex narrative surrounding Cleo's fate and the tragic circumstances of her life. Emotions rise as connections to Cleo's childhood friends reveal reflections on her joyful personality juxtaposed with the sorrow of her untimely death, reinforcing the need for closure for her family.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (S2 Episode 4: The funeral home) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_00
Before John F Kennedy's famous decade was out, before Eagle had set down on the surface of the moon, before NASA had rescued the crew of Apollo 13, they had already set their sights on a new vehicle. Space Shuttle.

00:00:15 Speaker_00
I'm Kevin Fong and in this new podcast we're bringing you the incredible story of the birth of the Space Shuttle era, as told by the people who built and flew it. From the ACAST Creator Network, 16 Sunsets. This is a CBC Podcast.

00:00:42 Speaker_13
previously on Missing and Murdered, Finding Cleo.

00:00:46 Speaker_10
There's unanswered questions out there that something's not right.

00:00:49 Speaker_02
If she was killed, how? What?

00:00:52 Speaker_01
I think I'm just staying alive just to sort of fulfill this promise.

00:00:56 Speaker_05
So I logged on when we got home and so I was just going through a bunch of different databases. It was getting late. It was like midnight at this point. What were you searching? Like were you searching Cleo? Were you searching girl?

00:01:07 Speaker_05
I used first name Cleo and birth year 1965 and up came this hit.

00:01:13 Speaker_13
What was the reaction when you saw a headstone with the first name Cleo? My heart skipped a beat. So we had a name, a birth date, a potential grave marker and also a small town. We needed to go to New Jersey.

00:01:33 Speaker_13
I'm Connie Walker and this is Missing and Murdered Finding Cleo, an investigative podcast by CBC News. So Church Road? No, you said Coates, right?

00:01:53 Speaker_05
Because there's two cemeteries with this exact same name. One's old, one's new.

00:01:58 Speaker_13
My producer Marnie and I are in a rental car. We've just turned off the New Jersey Turnpike and are trying to find a small township called Medford in Burlington County. Specifically, we're looking for the old Parkview Cemetery.

00:02:12 Speaker_05
Oh wait, there's Coates.

00:02:15 Speaker_13
Found it.

00:02:18 Speaker_09
There it is, there it is.

00:02:26 Speaker_13
Oh, I think we could find it. I don't think it doesn't look that big. It's been a few weeks since Marnie's late night internet search.

00:02:33 Speaker_13
We're at this old cemetery because we think that somewhere here is the grave of a young girl named Cleo who died in 1978. How are you feeling?

00:02:48 Speaker_13
I'm nervous because on one hand this kind of feels like a long shot but on the other it feels like it might actually be the clue we've been searching for.

00:02:57 Speaker_13
Someone somewhere just randomly uploaded a picture of a headstone for a girl named Cleo onto a website called findagrave.com. The website says this photo was taken from this cemetery. But we need to confirm that it actually was.

00:03:17 Speaker_13
And we're not sure if that Cleo is the same girl that we've been searching for for months. The girl who was born in Saskatchewan and adopted into this state more than 40 years ago. Cleo Simeganis. I almost don't want to find it. Why not? I don't know.

00:03:36 Speaker_13
I just feel like I'm not sure. Not that I don't want to find it, but... It just feels weird to be here at this point after all this time. It's a sunny morning in late May.

00:03:55 Speaker_13
Memorial Day is coming up, so there are dozens and dozens of little American flags next to the headstones of veterans throughout the cemetery. We start at the east end and walk through row by row, looking at every headstone for the name Cleo.

00:04:10 Speaker_13
The cemetery is bigger than it seemed from the car, and I realized it could take a while to check every one. But it looks like it would be one of those smaller ones. Those grey ones. Like that one that says Roberta Adams.

00:04:24 Speaker_13
We brought a copy of the photo that Marnie found online. We're looking for a small grey headstone. It's rectangular shaped but with a little curve on top. But it doesn't have a cross.

00:04:37 Speaker_13
The woman who posted it told us in an email that finding and posting pictures of grave sites is a hobby of hers. She's uploaded thousands of photos on findagrave.com and didn't remember finding this particular one. We're looking for Beloved Daughter.

00:04:52 Speaker_05
Beloved Daughter Cleo L. Madonia.

00:04:55 Speaker_13
So it says Beloved Daughter Cleo L. Madonia. May 7th, 1965 to December 22nd, 1978. The headstone has the full name of the girl who died in 1978, Cleo L. Madonia.

00:05:13 Speaker_13
If this is the Cleo we've been searching for, we now know her adopted name and are closer than ever to solving the mystery surrounding her death.

00:05:28 Speaker_13
It's quiet here, which is good because I imagine we're a strange sight with our microphone and camera walking through scanning each and every headstone.

00:05:37 Speaker_13
Because there's that one in the middle that looks like, see what this snow, it has a little snowman next to it and it looks kind of old. We haven't told Cleo's siblings about our trip here yet.

00:05:48 Speaker_13
We don't want to get their hopes up for something that could turn out to be a wild goose chase. Before we tell them anything, we need to find this Cleo's grave site and try to find out who she is and how she died.

00:06:02 Speaker_13
We need to be 100% certain whether or not this is actually their sister, the Cleo they've been searching for for decades. Oh, just wait. I think I can. Do you think that's it? Oh, let's go check. I don't think it says Beloved Daughter.

00:06:19 Speaker_13
Let me just... No, it doesn't. It says... No, no. Roger Button.

00:06:27 Speaker_05
But that's very similar though, the shape.

00:06:31 Speaker_13
Madonia. M-A-D-O-N-I-A?

00:06:33 Speaker_12
It doesn't have crosses, but it doesn't look like it. There it is.

00:06:51 Speaker_13
It's so small. Wow. We found it. Cleo Almedonia's grave. Is this Cleo? It looks smaller than the others, but it, is it?

00:07:12 Speaker_03
It's almost like it's sunk down a little more.

00:07:16 Speaker_13
Maybe it's sunken in.

00:07:19 Speaker_03
Just all by itself.

00:07:22 Speaker_13
It feels surreal to be standing here, right in front of a grave of a girl who, no matter who she is, died a tragic young death. It doesn't look like anyone's been here to see it in a while.

00:07:37 Speaker_13
Beloved daughter, Cleo L. Madonia, May 7, 1965 to December 22, 1978. That's right before Christmas. She would have been 13. Whoever Cleo is, if it's Cleo from Saskatchewan, or if Cleo Madonia is someone else.

00:07:59 Speaker_13
Before we got here, we searched online for any information about Cleo L. Madonia. But all that came up was the photo of this headstone from findagrave.com. We're only in town for a few days.

00:08:12 Speaker_13
If we're going to find out if this is Cleo Semegonus, we need to do it here, now, while we're on the ground. Oh, she's looking at us. She's wondering what we're doing. Across the street, a woman comes out of her house with her two dogs.

00:08:40 Speaker_13
Yeah, so we're from Canada and we're looking for a girl who died, we think, around 1978. And her name was Cleo and she was adopted into New Jersey. Oh.

00:08:52 Speaker_02
And you're looking for somebody? Yeah, we're looking for somebody. Say the last name again.

00:08:57 Speaker_13
Madonia. Madonia or Madonia? Yeah.

00:09:00 Speaker_02
Oh, OK. It's right over here on the far side of the... Yeah, OK.

00:09:04 Speaker_04
You knew where it was?

00:09:06 Speaker_02
Yeah, it's like the second or third end.

00:09:10 Speaker_13
But you don't know any Madonnas?

00:09:12 Speaker_16
No. No. No. No. And I've been around here a long time. I don't recognize that at all.

00:09:19 Speaker_04
Any recollection from around that time, like in the 70s? Did you ever hear anything about a young girl dying or anything like that?

00:09:29 Speaker_02
What? Oh, you mean strangely?

00:09:30 Speaker_13
Well, we don't know actually, but we heard that she might have been killed.

00:09:36 Speaker_02
Whoa, 78. Okay, have you got in touch with the man that runs the cemetery? No, what's his name? Yeah, it's Earl something, yeah. And what's your name? Nancy. Thanks, Nancy. You're welcome, hon.

00:09:55 Speaker_02
I hope you find it, but Earl would help you if he can, because he keeps close records.

00:10:06 Speaker_13
There are two Parkview cemeteries in Medford, New Jersey. The old one, where we are, and a brand new one just a few minutes away. A visit to Earl, at the new mausoleum and crematorium, seems like a logical next step. Parkview Cemetery, Kirby's Mill.

00:10:25 Speaker_13
We don't know what records, if any, they'll have about Cleomedonia, or even if they have them, what we'll be able to access. But it's not unheard of for cemetery records to include a death certificate, which may also list a cause of death. Hello.

00:10:43 Speaker_09
Hi.

00:10:43 Speaker_13
How are you?

00:10:44 Speaker_12
Doing great.

00:10:44 Speaker_13
How are you all doing? I'm good. Is Earl in today?

00:10:48 Speaker_12
He's somewhere on site. OK. Let me go let Earl know that you're here. Oh, are you Earl?

00:10:57 Speaker_13
Yes.

00:10:57 Speaker_12
Hi, I'm Connie.

00:10:58 Speaker_13
Connie Walker. Nice to meet you. I'm a reporter from CBC, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. This is Marnie. Hi, I'm Marnie. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.

00:11:05 Speaker_13
So I was explaining that we're working on a story about a Canadian girl who was adopted from Canada into New Jersey in the 70s, and her siblings are looking for her, but they don't know any information about where she died or what happened to her.

00:11:21 Speaker_13
What's the name? Her name is Cleo.

00:11:23 Speaker_10
That's the first name?

00:11:24 Speaker_13
The first name, but we think we found... Well, there's a Cleo Madonia in the old gravesite who died in 1978 on December 22nd, and she has the same birth year as the Cleo we're looking for, so we're wondering if that's the Cleo that we're actually looking for.

00:11:39 Speaker_10
Let's walk through here. Sure. Watch your step, please.

00:11:46 Speaker_13
Sure. Earl takes us away from the reception, punches in a code for a locked door, and leads us through a few dark rooms to his office. As we pass through the rooms, I notice a strange smell that reminds me where we are. It's unnerving.

00:12:06 Speaker_13
Earl's office looks like it's actually a garage that he's converted. He sits behind a small cluttered desk and has a laptop open in front of him. We took a picture.

00:12:20 Speaker_10
This is at our cemetery?

00:12:21 Speaker_13
Yeah, at the old one. Along with a big fan near the ceiling when you walk in, there's also a little fan on his desk pointed directly at him.

00:12:30 Speaker_10
I mean this is all the information I would have wanted. I don't know if I'd be able to tell who The only thing is, I have a book that says who's the owner. I would look up the obituary somehow to find out who the funeral director was.

00:12:49 Speaker_10
The funeral director may have the actual death certificate. Let's see. M-A-D-O-N-I-A. 78 is the right year and it's the right name. So I'm going to go into our grave book one it says page reference number 108.

00:13:16 Speaker_13
Earl's grave book is actually an old brown spiral notebook. It's a small ledger. Every entry is handwritten. It says where each gravesite is in the old cemetery and the name of the people who paid for the plots.

00:13:31 Speaker_10
So if we go into 108, and it should be grave ID R64.4. So... Oh, there it is. There it is. It says name Lewis J. and Lee Madonia. Date just says 1978. They paid $250 for the grave. So Lewis and Lee is probably the parents of that child.

00:13:59 Speaker_13
So they just purchased the one grave?

00:14:02 Speaker_10
Yes. I mean, obviously, this is the baby's 13 years old here, or the child.

00:14:11 Speaker_13
If this is Cleo, Earl's little notebook contains the names of the people who likely adopted her and the full name of the daughter they buried.

00:14:21 Speaker_10
Here we go. Cleopatra. C-L-E-O-P-A-T-R-A. Madonia. M-A-D-O-N-I-A. That was done by Bradley Firon. It says age 13.

00:14:40 Speaker_13
That was her full name, Cleopatra. Yeah. That's the full name of the girl that we're looking for. Yeah.

00:14:52 Speaker_10
That's... She's right here.

00:14:56 Speaker_13
Cleopatra. Cleosomeginus' full name was also Cleopatra. This is not 100% confirmation that we found her, but if this isn't Cleosomeginus, these are some pretty remarkable coincidences.

00:15:14 Speaker_10
But that's one of the best funeral homes in New Jersey. Bradley Funeral Home. You can go talk to Jill. Jill Bradley Ingram. She's the owner. Actually, her father was here just a few minutes ago. They would have records back then.

00:15:30 Speaker_13
The funeral home would have maybe a death certificate or something like that.

00:15:33 Speaker_10
Yeah, that's where I would start if it was me.

00:15:37 Speaker_13
Is there an obituary?

00:15:40 Speaker_10
I'm not finding one that far back, but you can go to Bradley Funeral Home and ask them.

00:15:47 Speaker_13
All right, we'll head over there. Thank you very much.

00:15:49 Speaker_10
It was a pleasure.

00:15:50 Speaker_13
That was really helpful. We leave the cemetery office and arrive at Bradley Funeral Home, one town over in Marlton, New Jersey. Jill, what was her last name? Bradley. Jill Bradley. Oh, Jill Bradley, manager.

00:16:16 Speaker_01
Closed.

00:16:18 Speaker_13
Okay, we'll have to come back tomorrow. Should we go to the library?

00:16:24 Speaker_05
The library is up in Burlington. Okay, is that far?

00:16:30 Speaker_04
We could. It's about half an hour away.

00:16:34 Speaker_13
We contacted the local library, and they sent us an obituary for Cleo Madonia. It appeared in the local paper in 1978. It said private funeral services were held for Cleo L. Madonia, 13, of Marlton.

00:16:49 Speaker_13
She is survived by her parents, Louis J. and Leonora Madonia, and a brother, Louis A. We searched online for information about the Madonias. It looks like her father died a few years ago. We find an address for her mother in Marlton, New Jersey.

00:17:05 Speaker_13
But because we're not sure how Cleo died or what the circumstances were, we're not ready to reach out to her yet.

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00:17:51 Speaker_13
Hi there, we're wondering where we could access old newspapers and microfilm. We go to the library in person because if we have the right Cleo and she was murdered there could be something in the local paper about the crime. Burlington County Times.

00:18:09 Speaker_13
We start scrolling through reels of microfilm. I'm just going to go all the way to the end and then come back. I just want to see what's there on the 22nd to the 26th.

00:18:26 Speaker_13
If she died on the 22nd, this is the first time anything would potentially even be in the paper. This is the 24th. Decomposed skeletal remains of a human body were found. New trial ordered on injured girls award. Hunters discover decomposed body.

00:18:45 Speaker_13
There seemed to be a lot of crime in the news in 1978. John Wayne Gacy, Jr. John Wayne Gacy had just confessed to killing over two dozen boys in Illinois. Here in Burlington County, they were reporting on homicides, assaults, and suicides.

00:19:01 Speaker_13
And the state police and Burlington County Major Crimes Unit are investigating to determine if it is a possible homicide. December 20th, okay. Remains found. And then a story about an attack on a teenager jumps out at us. Attempted rape.

00:19:21 Speaker_13
So you just happened on this? Yeah. Attempted rape of hitchhiker in Medford, which is really close to Marlton, right? December 7, 1978. Medford police here are investigating attempted rape of a Cherry Hill teenager last Wednesday.

00:19:35 Speaker_13
Investigators said the girl was hitchhiking and she was picked up by a man described in his late 20s operating a medium to full-size car with red body and white vinyl top.

00:19:45 Speaker_13
She was taken to Worrell Field in Medford where the alleged attack occurred shortly after 7 p.m. The victim said the driver gave his name as either Mike or John, said he was from Pensauken. Oh my god.

00:20:03 Speaker_13
We have no idea who this girl is, but the horrifying details in this story sound kind of familiar. The girl in the paper survived the attack. It happened in early December, three weeks before Cleo Madonia's death. It might not be related at all.

00:20:20 Speaker_13
But I can't help but think about Cleo Simeganis and the story that her family heard about her death. That she tried to hitchhike back home to Saskatchewan and was picked up and assaulted before she was killed.

00:20:34 Speaker_13
I wonder again what truth there is to that story that Christine wrote. The story that started us on this journey. I hope that while we're here we get some concrete answers. The 26th was the day that she was buried, it said, right?

00:20:54 Speaker_13
Okay, these are the death notices for Tuesday, December 26th. William Andrews, William Finnegan, Marion Lee.

00:21:01 Speaker_13
We searched through the rest of the archives for that month, but we don't find any mention of Cleo Madonia or anything about the murder of a young girl in Marlton.

00:21:15 Speaker_08
It's going to be a short drive.

00:21:30 Speaker_13
Six minutes away. Where are we off to? The next morning we head back to Bradley Funeral Home, where we know that Cleo Madonia's service took place. All right.

00:21:44 Speaker_12
Good morning. How are you doing? Good. Is Jill Bradley here? No, she's not. Do you know when she'll be in?

00:21:50 Speaker_14
She's out running errands, and then she won't be in at all this afternoon.

00:21:53 Speaker_13
Okay. Okay. I wonder if there's anyone else we could talk to.

00:21:57 Speaker_12
We're actually, um, we were over at, uh, the Medford Cemetery talking to Earl. Oh, that's where she is actually right now. Oh, really?

00:22:05 Speaker_14
She just headed over there. She'd take someone to the crematory. Oh. And then, uh... And then... And then she's not gonna be here this afternoon. But anyone as directors can help you.

00:22:16 Speaker_12
Do you have a question? Yeah, we do have a question. So we were actually, we were over at the Medford Cemetery looking for this gravestone.

00:22:25 Speaker_13
It was a girl who died in 1978. Okay. And she was 13 years old, and her name was Cleo Madonia. And... Did we do this?

00:22:35 Speaker_15
Did we do this? Yeah, yeah, he said that you guys did. But I mean, it's 1978, so it was a long time ago. Yeah, it was a long time ago. So, um, you couldn't find the headstone? Is that what you're telling me?

00:22:45 Speaker_12
We did.

00:22:45 Speaker_15
No, we found the headstone.

00:22:46 Speaker_12
Oh, okay.

00:22:47 Speaker_13
But the reason, we're journalists from Canada, and the reason we're looking for her is that she, there was a girl who was adopted from Canada, um, in the 1970s, whose family was told she died in 19, around 1978.

00:23:00 Speaker_13
So we're trying to find out if this is the right girl.

00:23:03 Speaker_12
If this is her. So, um... So the, I don't know, were you here in the 70s?

00:23:10 Speaker_14
I was 13. So, okay, let me, all right, have a seat. I'm going to see if I can find the book that the record is in.

00:23:18 Speaker_15
So, December 22nd, 78. Yeah. I have to go down to the basement. Great. So have a seat there.

00:23:28 Speaker_13
Sure. December 72nd. 22nd, December 22nd. The receptionist leaves us in the foyer and goes down a staircase in search of the records from 1978.

00:23:40 Speaker_12
I think everything we want to know is going to be in that book.

00:23:46 Speaker_13
I don't know if she's going to share any information with us. I think it's kind of unlikely. But I was surprised that we were able to see the records at the cemetery office. Things seem different in the States.

00:23:58 Speaker_13
Sanger, a journalist, seems to open doors that they might not in Canada. I feel so nervous. But she's back within a few minutes and has a file of papers in her hand. Wow, what's that? That's her file. Amazing. Yeah. But she doesn't hand them over.

00:24:22 Speaker_13
She keeps them close to her, behind her desk. OK. Jill said she was 13 years old in 1978, the same age as Cleo Madonia. It's a long shot, but I show her the picture we have of Cleo, the one we've been carrying around with us for months.

00:24:48 Speaker_13
So are you from here as well?

00:24:50 Speaker_12
I was just wondering if you would recognize her photo.

00:24:54 Speaker_14
No, I don't think so. I am from here, but no, I don't recognize her picture.

00:25:01 Speaker_13
But then, she looks at the photo again.

00:25:03 Speaker_14
Oh, wait a minute. This is Cleo. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yes, we, wow. Yeah, she and I were friends. What? Yes. Yeah, she, let me, wait a minute, let me think for a second. We were in, Fifth grade? Sixth grade? No. Middle school? Are you recording me? Yes, is that okay?

00:25:31 Speaker_14
No, it's not.

00:25:33 Speaker_12
We're doing a documentary for her family. Her siblings are looking for her. And this is... I would just rather you didn't record me, if that's okay.

00:25:41 Speaker_14
Okay.

00:25:42 Speaker_12
Yeah.

00:25:44 Speaker_14
So you turned it off? Yeah. Okay.

00:25:48 Speaker_13
I stopped recording. I can't believe it. We found Cleo. The girl we've been searching for for months. We found her. And not only that, we're talking to someone who knew her. Someone who was her friend. Someone who doesn't want to be recorded. I'm crushed.

00:26:10 Speaker_13
The woman doesn't ask us to leave though. She keeps talking. Her name is Jill Slim. She's not the Jill we came to see, but I'm so glad that she is the one that we found. What are the odds? Jill can't believe it either.

00:26:23 Speaker_13
She keeps saying, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. It starts to sink in that we're talking about her friend Cleo and she gets emotional. Even though I'm disappointed, I can understand her hesitation about being recorded.

00:26:40 Speaker_13
Jill starts telling us about the day that Cleo died. She remembers it vividly. It was a few days before Christmas, in 1978, and Jill was hosting a party. She invited all of her girlfriends to come over to her house, including Cleo.

00:26:57 Speaker_13
Everyone brought an ornament to help trim the tree. The party had started, but Cleo didn't show up. As Jill is telling this story, I feel panicked. This is the moment. We found Cleo and are hearing details about her life and her death.

00:27:13 Speaker_13
Details that her siblings have been searching and longing for. I'm not taking notes, neither is Marnie. Everything is happening so quickly and I'm worried we're missing something important. Something crucial. So I make a split second decision.

00:27:29 Speaker_13
and hit the record button again. In my mind, I think Jill is shocked right now. But maybe, once she has time to process and hear more about what we're doing and why. she might change her mind.

00:28:02 Speaker_13
And maybe she'll be okay with it and let us use what I'm recording for the podcast. And even if she doesn't, even if she still says no, it's important to record what she says for our notes, for accuracy. So I keep recording.

00:28:16 Speaker_14
Oh my gosh, I don't know if I can do this. I'm just not ready to do this right now. Oh my gosh.

00:28:25 Speaker_13
Luckily, Jill would change her mind.

00:28:28 Speaker_14
Okay, so what do you want to know?

00:28:31 Speaker_13
Months later, after we'd met again, she agrees to let us use what I recorded that day in the funeral home. Her reaction, after we realized that the girl that we've been searching for is her friend Cleo. I can't believe that we found you.

00:28:47 Speaker_13
Oh my gosh, like this is just crazy.

00:28:50 Speaker_14
That's her. That's definitely her. She's really, really tall. She was taller than all of us. But that's her. She was really small here. I was in I was 1978, so I was 13, so I was in middle school.

00:29:04 Speaker_12
What school?

00:29:04 Speaker_14
Morelton Middle.

00:29:06 Speaker_12
Morelton Middle School?

00:29:06 Speaker_14
Yeah, Morelton Middle.

00:29:08 Speaker_12
Would there be a photo of her, like a yearbook or anything like that?

00:29:11 Speaker_14
Yeah, I think, yeah, I probably have a yearbook picture of her at home.

00:29:15 Speaker_12
Oh my gosh.

00:29:16 Speaker_14
Oh no, a middle school, do I have a middle school yearbook?

00:29:20 Speaker_13
I can't believe that you know her.

00:29:21 Speaker_14
I can't believe you've been looking for her. And Gina and I were just talking about her.

00:29:26 Speaker_12
Who is Gina?

00:29:27 Speaker_14
Gina is just my, my, we were just best friends in school and we were friends with Cleo.

00:29:35 Speaker_12
How long was she in New Jersey? Do you know?

00:29:37 Speaker_14
She very, I honestly, I don't have much recall of her only. She was just in my class. That's all I know. It was just tragic. I think I know how she died. But I'm not positive.

00:29:56 Speaker_13
Even though Jill says she's not sure, I think she actually knows how Cleo died. But she is adamant she can't be the one to tell us what happened to Cleo.

00:30:07 Speaker_14
I'm sorry.

00:30:08 Speaker_13
I'm sorry.

00:30:08 Speaker_14
I'm really, really sorry. You can try the police department. They might have a record.

00:30:15 Speaker_03
Yeah. Can you even tell us yet just what the story was going around? This isn't official cause of death. No, I'm sorry.

00:30:21 Speaker_14
Just even what the... I can't. I really... I just am not... I understand. Yeah. It was tragic. It was just a tragedy.

00:30:34 Speaker_03
Is it something you think police may have info on?

00:30:37 Speaker_14
I'm sure... I'm sure the police were called. I'm sure. Yeah.

00:30:45 Speaker_13
The whole time we're here, Jill is texting with her friend Gina, who was also Cleo's friend.

00:30:53 Speaker_14
And I know, I have a yearbook with her picture in it. I know I do.

00:31:00 Speaker_12
She looked just like that.

00:31:02 Speaker_14
She was just really, really tall.

00:31:04 Speaker_12
Did her hair change?

00:31:06 Speaker_14
No. It was really straight. Bangs.

00:31:14 Speaker_12
Did she talk about being adopted?

00:31:16 Speaker_14
This has obviously thrown Jill for a loop. She's reeling and she's still at work.

00:31:35 Speaker_13
for having a funeral home. We ask if we can meet up with her later, but she has an appointment right after work and is heading out of town first thing tomorrow.

00:31:45 Speaker_14
Ugh, what are the odds? Yes.

00:31:47 Speaker_13
I know.

00:31:48 Speaker_14
What are the odds, right? And I'm looking at this paper and I'm looking at this picture and I'm, hmm, am I going downstairs and I'm looking for 78 and, oh no, no, 78 is upstairs. Cleo. Cleo Madonia.

00:32:03 Speaker_12
I'm so sorry. This must be really shocking for you guys.

00:32:12 Speaker_14
We were friends, the three of us. We were friends.

00:32:16 Speaker_13
We agree to touch base with Jill and hopefully Gina later in the day. I sense she's feeling so overwhelmed and we want to give her some space. But we're really hoping she'll agree to meet with us this evening.

00:32:27 Speaker_13
Yeah, we can call you back in a couple hours.

00:32:29 Speaker_14
So much to do to go away.

00:32:30 Speaker_13
Yeah. Thank you very much. Back in the car, Marnie and I are also a bit in shock. We call Heather, our senior producer, on the phone. So we have found Cleo. We found Cleo.

00:32:51 Speaker_13
And the funeral, or the man at the cemetery, you know, told us her full name was Cleopatra. And her friend knew that was her full name as well. And she, I mean, she recognized her photo. I just, I keep thinking about Donnie.

00:33:09 Speaker_13
He's only like an hour away from here. And it just, it's just heartbreaking to think that they were only an hour apart when this was happening, whatever, whatever happened to Cleo.

00:33:21 Speaker_13
Even just the detail that she was like, she was invited to a tree trimming party where everyone brings their own ornament with other girls in her grade eight class.

00:33:29 Speaker_13
It's just, and it was, it just reminds you it was so close to Christmas and yeah, it's just, it's just, it's a lot. It is a lot. Yeah.

00:33:42 Speaker_11
Yeah, any one of these things would be a lot on their own and then for it all to be together in the life of a little girl, basically a young girl.

00:33:55 Speaker_13
We know that we need to tell Cleo's siblings now that we found her. Johnny is just a few hours away in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. We contemplate going to tell him in person.

00:34:07 Speaker_13
But today is also our only chance to talk more with Jill and her friend Gina, and to hear more about what life was like for Cleo in New Jersey. And before we talk to Cleo's siblings, we want to find out more about what happened to her. How did she die?

00:34:22 Speaker_13
Was she murdered like her family has always believed? Why won't Jill tell us what happened to her? We take Jill's advice and head to the local police station. Hi, I'm a journalist with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in Toronto, Canada.

00:34:42 Speaker_13
And I'm working on a story about a girl who died in New Jersey in 1978. And I'm wondering if anyone from your police department worked here in 1978 who might be able to help.

00:34:57 Speaker_06
I don't know. You would have to speak to one of the officers, but right now they're all out on a critical case. There's no one here and they might be gone for a couple hours. So do you want me to give you a phone number? You can talk to somebody.

00:35:10 Speaker_12
Sure, yeah.

00:35:12 Speaker_06
I'm going to give you the number of Lieutenant Creel. He's our public information officer, and he might either be able to help you or to direct you.

00:35:20 Speaker_13
And he's not in right now?

00:35:22 Speaker_06
There's nobody here right now.

00:35:24 Speaker_13
What's going on?

00:35:25 Speaker_06
We're not allowed to discuss it. A police standoff continues to disrupt a South Jersey neighborhood this afternoon. That's where a man has barricaded himself inside of a residence.

00:35:34 Speaker_13
The police may not want to tell us, but it's all over the local news. So it seems like on-duty officers will be tied up today.

00:35:55 Speaker_05
So I just got a text from Jill at the funeral home and she says... Jill and Gina have decided they will meet us tonight.

00:36:02 Speaker_13
That's good. I feel like she was just so overwhelmed in the moment. But just to talk, they're not ready for an interview. We meet at a local diner and as promised, we leave our microphone behind. Jill and Gina are clear about their intentions.

00:36:20 Speaker_13
They're talking to us for Cleo's siblings. They want to help them learn more about their sister, help them get to know the girl Jill and Gina considered a friend.

00:36:29 Speaker_13
They're shocked about us showing up out of the blue, and we're wary about talking to journalists. But the more we talk, the more comfortable they become. They tell us again about the moment they found out that Cleo died.

00:36:43 Speaker_13
We talked to them for over an hour. It's the most I've heard about what Cleo was like. I don't want to forget a thing, so as soon as we're back in the car, I go over everything they told us. Okay, all right, where to begin?

00:36:56 Speaker_13
So we just left the Marlton Diner.

00:37:02 Speaker_13
Jill remembers her mom sitting down all the girls on a sectional in the living room and her mom sitting on a coffee table and telling all the girls that Cleo died and then all of their mothers came to pick them up and they were all upset and

00:37:21 Speaker_13
They also said they remember the funeral was on the 26th but they weren't allowed to go. It was a private funeral. They share memories of Cleo and paint a picture of her that I've never heard before.

00:37:34 Speaker_13
They said that she was happy and that she laughed and that she She just always had a big smile on her face and she was just a goofball and that she was really happy.

00:37:47 Speaker_13
It's such a contrast to Johnny's last memory of Cleo and the Cleo we've been hearing about. The young girl who was taken away from her mother and who was so upset about being sent away for adoption.

00:38:01 Speaker_13
I hope that hearing about this Cleo, the happy Cleo, gives her family some comfort. They said she didn't talk about what happened before she was adopted, except once she said something about how her real mom named her Cleopatra.

00:38:22 Speaker_13
When we were talking about her other siblings, Gina thought she might have mentioned something about a sister. But they said that she didn't really talk about that. Jill and Gina brought two photos of Cleo, and I was struck by how different they were.

00:38:35 Speaker_13
The first one was Cleo's grade 5 class picture, taken the year she arrived in New Jersey. Cleo stands out because she's tall and she's wearing a bright yellow top. Gone are her crooked bangs.

00:38:47 Speaker_13
Her dark brown hair is cut perfectly straight and it looks so shiny. I love this photo because Cleo is smiling and she looks really happy. The second is a black and white photo from her grade 8 yearbook. Her hair is longer and her face is fuller.

00:39:02 Speaker_13
Around her neck is a white seashell necklace. Cleo doesn't look like a little girl anymore. She has a small smile on her face, but it doesn't look genuine. Underneath the picture, it says, respectfully remember Cleo Madonia.

00:39:19 Speaker_13
It was taken just a few months before she died. I wonder what she was going through. What happened in those three years in New Jersey? Did Cleo try to run away from here? Why? Was she trying to hitchhike back to Saskatchewan?

00:39:35 Speaker_13
They didn't know anything about the Sixties Scoop or about residential schools. Gina just kept saying, so they just come into your house and take your kids? And she just seemed really shocked by that. They said that they wanted to meet with Johnny.

00:39:53 Speaker_13
They wanted to meet with Cleo's siblings. But they both remembered finding out and how they found out about her death. They didn't want to talk about it. They didn't want to tell us how she died. They didn't want to get into that at all.

00:40:05 Speaker_13
But they said, you need to get the death certificate. You need to find out on your own. But before we go any further, we need to talk to Cleo's siblings. To Johnny, Christine, Mark and April. They need to know that we found their sister.

00:40:22 Speaker_13
On the next Missing and Murdered, Finding Cleo, we visit the house where Cleo lived and meet her adoptive mother.

00:40:31 Speaker_01
The reason we're calling is that they found Cleo's grave. It's in New Jersey. Oh yeah, something happened for a perfectly healthy 13-year-old to die, right?

00:40:50 Speaker_12
Hi, I'm looking for Leigh Madonia. Hi Leigh, my name is Connie Walker.

00:40:57 Speaker_13
Missing and Murdered Finding Cleo is written and hosted by me, Connie Walker. Our producers are Marnie Luke and Jennifer Fowler. Mika Anderson is our audio producer and our senior producer is Heather Evans. To subscribe to our podcast,

00:41:13 Speaker_13
Search missing and murdered finding Cleo on iTunes or your favorite podcast app. You can also listen to the podcast on our website at cbc.ca slash finding Cleo. We've posted some more photos of Cleo there.

00:41:27 Speaker_13
The ones her friends showed us from the time she lived in New Jersey. Again you can see those at cbc.ca slash finding Cleo.

00:41:43 Speaker_00
For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.