OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast The Bill Simmons Podcast

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Go to PodExtra AI's podcast page (The Bill Simmons Podcast) to view the AI-processed content of all episodes of this podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast episodes list: view full AI transcripts and summaries of this podcast on the blog

Episode: OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck

Author: The Ringer
Duration: 02:04:19

Episode Shownotes

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by David Jacoby and Kirk Goldsberry to discuss the first night of the NBA Cup quarterfinals, starting with the Thunder’s dominant win over the Mavs as they debate whether the Thunder are now the outright team to beat in the West (02:25). With trade

season looming, Bill shares why he’s not a fan of the league's new CBA rules that restrict trades, before debating with Jacoby and Kirk whether the NBA Cup is actually working (17:18). They then go through the Bucks overcoming the stingy Magic and why, despite the loss, the Magic’s future is very bright (33:10). Lastly, they discuss what is going on with Joel Embiid, share their favorite rookies and most disappointing teams of the season so far (52:34). Bill is then joined by Kyle Brandt and Craig Horlbeck to discuss Patrick Mahomes vs. Josh Allen, what to make of the Eagles, the Steelers' playoff potential with Russell Wilson, and more from around the NFL (01:11:19). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Bill Simmons Guests: David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck Producer: Kyle Crichton, Steve Ceruti, and Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Summary

In this episode of The Bill Simmons Podcast, host Bill Simmons and guests delve into the standout performance of the Oklahoma City Thunder in the NBA Cup, particularly emphasizing their defensive prowess and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander's MVP candidacy. The discussion extends to concerns surrounding the new CBA trade rules, which complicate player moves and limit trade strategies, impacting various teams. Additionally, the hosts explore the performance of underachieving teams like the Indiana Pacers and Minnesota Timberwolves, as well as the emergence of young talents in the league. On the NFL side, they analyze quarterback dynamics and playoff potentials, particularly focusing on Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills, alongside the surprising success of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_07
Coming up, NBA Cup, NBA, and a lot of NFL next. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. It's tip-off time for NBA Cup. So I hope you're all ready and stocked up on Michelob Ultra. Notice how I called it NBA Cup and not the NBA Cup?

00:00:17 Speaker_07
Trying to get that going. We'll see how it goes. I really love how they're getting fans closer to all the action with Michelob Ultra courtside. It has exclusive content and prizes like courtside seats.

00:00:27 Speaker_07
a trip to the Paris Global Game, or to All-Star Weekend, and much more. Learn how you can get closer to the action. Visit michelobultra.com slash courtside. Michelob Ultra, superior access courtside, 24, 25 sweepstakes, no purchase necessary.

00:00:43 Speaker_07
Open to U.S. residents 21 plus. Begins on 10-1-24, goes through 7-1-25. Visit michelobultra.com slash courtside for free entry. Entry deadlines and official rules. and void were prohibited.

00:01:01 Speaker_02
This episode is brought to you by Old El Paso. Does game day hosting feel like an extreme sport? Not anymore. With Old El Paso, feeding your hungry crowd is oh so easy.

00:01:10 Speaker_02
Old El Paso's crunchy stand and stuffed shells, bold seasonings, and squeezable sauces are fumble free, flavor packed, and perfect for cheering on your team. Football season is taco season with Old El Paso. Level up your next tailgater watch party.

00:01:24 Speaker_02
Shop game day essentials at oldelpaso.com.

00:01:30 Speaker_07
We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Disclosure, which is now one of the strangest movies of the 1990s. It's now kind of a comedy, as weird as that sounds.

00:01:45 Speaker_07
Me, Van Lathan, Big Waz, we broke it all down. and you can watch it as well on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. Speaking of YouTube channels, we launched our Ringer TV channel that has the Prestige TV podcast to watch.

00:01:58 Speaker_07
We're gonna do some fun shorter videos on there and a lot of the archives we have from the TV episodes we've done. So go check that out and subscribe. We're gonna be experimenting a lot more with video podcasts.

00:02:10 Speaker_07
on all the Spotify feeds too for Prestige and for The Watch and for my podcast and for the Rewatchables. So stay tuned.

00:02:20 Speaker_07
If you like listening to podcasts on Spotify, you'll be able to watch the videos as well as we keep going, heading to the end of 2024 into 2025 coming up.

00:02:31 Speaker_07
We waited for these two NBA Cup games to end on Tuesday, because especially OKC Dallas had to see what was going on there, wanted to break it down.

00:02:39 Speaker_07
So I reserved, almost like you could reserve an Uber black car or something, I reserved Dave Jacoby and Kirk Goldsberry to be on call after the NBA Cup, so they're gonna join me, and then,

00:02:53 Speaker_07
Craig Horbeck and Kyle Branton and I, Kyle and I did a Rewatchables that we recorded for later this month, and then I made him stick around yesterday, and me and Craig and Kyle just talked about NFL. And it went a whole bunch of directions.

00:03:05 Speaker_07
I had a great time. So this is a three-man podcast all the way through with two different three-man teams. It's all next. First, our friends from ProJet. All right, we're taping this. It is almost nine o'clock Pacific time.

00:03:35 Speaker_07
Dave Jacoby stayed up late on the East Coast. Kurt Goldsberry. Sloppy seconds we're getting you today because you were doing some alt-casting. Hopefully you have enough energy momentum back. Guys, I'm gonna start here. OKC beats Dallas.

00:03:50 Speaker_07
Jacoby, is OKC like a borderline lock for you in the West or is there somebody else you're afraid of? Because the more I watch them, the more I just wonder who beats them in the West.

00:03:59 Speaker_04
It's the defense. It's just, it's on a different level than every other team. I don't want to play against this team. You can just see the frustration on the body language of the Mavs. They can't throw basic passes without being harassed.

00:04:13 Speaker_04
You remember that lively rebound he got, and the cruiser just knocked it out of bounds? It's just annoying.

00:04:19 Speaker_04
They're just swarming wasps, and it's so frustrating, because I was rooting for the Mavs because I wanted a close game, and it's just impossible to do anything against them. It's awful.

00:04:28 Speaker_07
What do you think, Goldsberry?

00:04:30 Speaker_08
Yeah, they're the clear favorite now. And, and I know Dallas is going to sit here and say, Oh, we didn't have PJ Washington and we beat them last year and this and it fine. They should be confident.

00:04:39 Speaker_08
But from what I'm seeing, bill, their net rating, their defensive rating, like Jacoby just said, and then the eye test.

00:04:46 Speaker_08
Oh my God, yeah, Luka threw a lob, I think it was to Lively near the end of the game, that he's thrown 100 times, and all of a sudden there was two Thunder guys, and they were playing small, and they intercepted it.

00:04:55 Speaker_08
I think they had 12 steals, 31 points off turnovers, but more importantly, they just frustrate the hell out of everybody, and I feel like they're so far and away better than anything else I'm seeing in the West through the first quarter of the season, that yeah, I'm gonna say they're the favorite to come out of the Western Conference.

00:05:13 Speaker_07
FanDuel agrees with you, but the odds for the OKC Thunder in the West, I thought they'd be a minus, but they're plus 190 in the West. And they just seem too athletic and too fast for maybe any team except the Celtics.

00:05:32 Speaker_07
because I think at least the Celtics, it's the perimeter guys. You watch Dallas, and Dallas was on a good run. They'd won 11 and 12. They really felt like they were starting to turn into something. And they just look slow tonight compared to OKC.

00:05:46 Speaker_07
You put Luka, you put Kyrie, you put Klay Thompson. Najee Marshall, who was really good in the first half. Those are good players. Those are guys, this is the top five team in the league. And OKC just seemed faster. and younger and more athletic.

00:06:01 Speaker_07
And Luca, I don't know, what was going on with Luca Jacobi? What was your take?

00:06:04 Speaker_04
You know, one of the things that analysts always say about Luka is like, you can't speed him up. You can't speed him up. There's a part of me that's like, hey, Luka, can you speed up? Like, you know, it's like, oh, you can't speed him up.

00:06:14 Speaker_04
He's always at his own pace. It's like, cool, cool, cool. How about you like move a little bit off the ball? Like there's a couple of sessions he was just like in the corner. Like he's, he's kind of getting that James Harden off ball energy.

00:06:25 Speaker_04
They're like, oh, someone else has the ball. So I'm just going to stand here with my arms at my sides, like straight up and down. It's like, It was a, it was a frustrating Luca day.

00:06:34 Speaker_04
They were doubling him early, which I think was smart because they doubled him early and kind of got the ball out of his hands and didn't let him catch a rhythm until the second half for like a brief spurt.

00:06:42 Speaker_07
You know what though? I still think they're the number two team in the West for me. If I had to say who can actually make the finals, I still have Dallas second. I don't think this is a great matchup for them.

00:06:53 Speaker_07
And I was trying to think of the rock, paper, scissors thing with the West. I don't know if you guys saw the OKC Houston game. Maybe it was 10 days ago.

00:07:01 Speaker_07
Houston, I think, is the team in the West that can go toe-to-toe on this crazy, young, hungry pit bull, just speed, athleticism all over the place. I think that's the only way in the West Nobody's gonna overpower them.

00:07:15 Speaker_07
There's not gonna be like, obviously not the Lakers, but the LeBron A.D. type situation where it's just, oh my God, they just got bully-balled, they got out-rebounded by 10 rebounds. I don't see that happening this year.

00:07:27 Speaker_07
I almost feel like you have to beat them with what they do. Is there anybody else you see, Kirk?

00:07:35 Speaker_08
Golden State here in this quarterfinal. I don't see anybody else, because Minnesota, I think coming in to the season, Bill, was that other team for me, and they have just been off to an awkward start.

00:07:45 Speaker_08
So I don't see the Randall piece really fitting in there to put them in that category. And Dallas was the hottest team in the league, period, before tonight. And I think they clearly deserve number two status.

00:07:57 Speaker_08
They won the conference, they beat this team in the playoffs last year in six games. So I think until further notice, it's OKC, Dallas, then Houston, and then actually, I don't know who I put it for.

00:08:09 Speaker_07
So you'd have Houston third, or just to beat OKC? Would you just have Houston third in general?

00:08:14 Speaker_08
I love Houston at three, and I wanna see what they do in this tournament. I know some people think it's silly, but I think this is a catapult for them.

00:08:22 Speaker_08
If they beat Steph and Steve Kerr tomorrow, and they get to Vegas, and they play the Oklahoma City Thunder, I think it really starts to feel like they're not just a flash in the pan. Like OKC, Bill, their defensive indicators scream contender.

00:08:39 Speaker_08
They are not, It's just like Orlando. Orlando, OKC, and Houston. Three young, pain-in-the-ass defenses that nobody wants to play against. And Imei has really built that team up. So I would put them at three.

00:08:54 Speaker_08
I don't know if there's somebody I'm forgetting.

00:08:56 Speaker_07
The other thing, well, you're forgetting Memphis because, and we have to mention that because Jacoby does a podcast twice a week on the mismatch. with somebody who's like, how the fuck can Kurt Goldsberry not mention Memphis for eight minutes there?

00:09:10 Speaker_07
What the fuck is he doing?

00:09:12 Speaker_08
That might be intentional. I might've heard that he fast forwards the minutes that I speak on this show.

00:09:18 Speaker_07
Is that true? He does the 15 second fast forward. Memphis right now is fifth offensive rating, seventh defensive rating. The per 36 stats are crazy for them too. Like Jah, who's

00:09:30 Speaker_07
really only playing like 28 minutes a game, but he would be 28 and 11 if he played 36. Brandon Clark looks great. So from a speed standpoint, Maybe, but I'd kinda like to see those guys play for 20 games, Jacoby.

00:09:44 Speaker_07
And I'll tell you this, they're dining a lot off that Celtics game on Saturday, where the Celtics had played five and seven.

00:09:51 Speaker_07
They'd played Milwaukee the night before in this heated, my dad was saying it was like a third round playoff game kind of intensity.

00:09:59 Speaker_07
And then the next day, the Celts have to run it back, and they had no legs, they were dead, and Memphis kinda steamrolled them. But I don't think they should take too much out of that, Jacobes.

00:10:09 Speaker_04
I don't think any of these teams would be a favorite in a series against the Thunder.

00:10:13 Speaker_04
And watching the Thunder tonight, watching them just fly around and watching SGA be like a true go-to weapon on offense the way that some of the Rockets don't have, to be honest with you.

00:10:25 Speaker_04
And then every once in a while, they cut to this guy in a velour sweatsuit in the second row with a big beard who looked like he leveled up. Chet, obviously I'm talking about, it's like he's coming back. They have a major weapon.

00:10:39 Speaker_07
He looks like a UFC fighter. He's like this UFC middleweight hanging out outside the octagon waiting to see who's gonna fight in the next UFC card. But it's Chad Holmgren, he's seven foot one.

00:10:50 Speaker_04
Yeah, I think that people sleep on the fact that they're doing all of this without him. And a lot of teams are missing players, but he's like, I don't know, second or third best player. Probably their third best player.

00:11:01 Speaker_07
Yeah, we haven't seen their, I mean, what we did get to see tonight especially was the Hartenstein piece, the whole, the kind of rebounding center rim protection guy that they just haven't had.

00:11:13 Speaker_07
Like we were talking about some of the matchups with them. One of the things that's interesting with Houston is Houston's first in the league in rebounding. They're almost averaging 50 rebounds a game.

00:11:24 Speaker_07
Which, you know what, sometimes I like the counting stats. I know the fancy kids, they love the advanced stats, and Kirk's got his efficiency map, and I love all that stuff too, but sometimes I like to know who gets the most rebounds every game.

00:11:39 Speaker_07
And Houston's getting 50 a game, so to Jacoby's point, Kirk, I do feel like they need Chet and Hartenstein in a Houston series. But the flip side with Houston is, I still don't really know who their go-to guy is.

00:11:52 Speaker_07
I watch them game to game and it's like, because they're my favorite league pass team. And it's like, really? We're doing the Fred Van Vliet step back? That's our shot with 50 seconds left? I don't think they know.

00:12:04 Speaker_07
They'll go to Shangoon sometimes, depending on the matchup, but it's kind of like a last shot by a committee team, which makes me nervous in the playoffs.

00:12:13 Speaker_08
Yeah, I think that's valid, and I think that we went too long, and I was talking about what we saw from SGA tonight, and I think he really is the differentiator in the top of the West, because he is legitimately the MVP candidate over there right now.

00:12:27 Speaker_08
When you look at those three teams we talked about, you throw in Memphis, maybe John Morant, but SGA is on a different plane, and what we saw tonight from him on both sides of the court, nearly scoring 40 points, and then just putting up crooked numbers.

00:12:40 Speaker_07
Made some threes, five for nine from three.

00:12:44 Speaker_08
five or nine from three, and then just sets the tone on defense too, like he is a truly, truly impressive two-way superstar, Bill Simmons, and I think... No other team has that.

00:12:54 Speaker_08
And if it does get to sort of crunch time at the end, you know that the guy who has the ball in his hands can score in an isolation situation. By the way, he's isolating more than anybody else in the league. And he, Houston doesn't have that.

00:13:09 Speaker_08
That is fair to say. And I think that is one of the things that separates the Oklahoma City Thunder from everybody else in the West right now is that their best player can be that guy at the end of a big game like we saw tonight.

00:13:22 Speaker_07
Houston does have Dylan Brooks doing Dylan Brooks stuff. I think SGA would be the best guy in the West if Jokic wasn't averaging a 56.1 a game, points, rebounds, and assists. He's in the 56 club right now. It's like him and Will Chamberlain.

00:13:39 Speaker_07
It's just the two of them, they're hanging out. That's it, I think.

00:13:42 Speaker_08
Who do you have in the MVP ladder right now, just between those two?

00:13:45 Speaker_07
Just because I think it's a... Yo, because it's having the greatest statistical season of our adult lifetime.

00:13:52 Speaker_08
I agree, but does it matter to you that OKC is emerging as a clear number one and they're sort of dropping down to maybe a play-in status? Does that factor into the Professor Simmons model?

00:14:06 Speaker_07
It's early, right? I mean, Denver hasn't won two straight games for a month. I don't know what's going on with Jamal Murray. Jokic, I promise you, isn't like, oh cool, I scored 104 points this weekend. That's not what he's about.

00:14:19 Speaker_07
But I don't know if he has a choice. I wanna see if it's 47, 48 wins is kind of the cutoff for me. But if you're a six seed or a seven seed, I think it gets tough if there's some real candidates. I think Tatum's a candidate.

00:14:36 Speaker_07
SGA is absolutely a candidate. Jacobs, I think that thing that would, really clinch it for SGA having an argument, maybe even becoming a favorite as if OKC just becomes like a 65-win team, which I think is in play as hard as the West is.

00:14:53 Speaker_07
It seems like an accident when they lose. I'm always surprised when they lose, right?

00:14:58 Speaker_04
I think 65 might be a little high, but I think they're going to run away with the number one seed in the Western Conference, which is obviously the stronger conference.

00:15:09 Speaker_04
I try to stay away from the MVP stuff, you know what I mean, on December, in early December. Yeah, but what Yogesh has done has been very impressive.

00:15:23 Speaker_04
What he did this weekend, as you mentioned, I'm sure he's like, I don't want to take 39 shots in a basketball game.

00:15:30 Speaker_07
You were like that, Jacobs. When you were taking a lot of shots, you were never happy. I know. You wanted to do no looks and you wanted to do good entry passes and just play team basketball. That's like Jokic. Exactly, exactly.

00:15:41 Speaker_04
Wait, what did he do this weekend? Lose to the Wizards? Is that what caught your eye? Lost to the Wizards. Lost to the Wizards and beat the Hawks. Yeah, he scored 104 points. That's true. Killed the Hawks. It is crazy.

00:15:51 Speaker_04
It is crazy how little he has around him. What really jumped out to me about those two games was the Westbrook-Jokic connection. Westbrook was just feeding him. Westbrook was like, the best player on the planet is on my team.

00:16:06 Speaker_04
Let me just get him in a position to score. It was really impressive. I was impressed by Westbrook this weekend.

00:16:13 Speaker_07
Yeah, because Murray is kind of like Jokic's basketball wife. And with Westbrook now, he's kind of flirting with the office assistant who just kind of moved into the office. And it's like, whoa, Jokic just went to get coffee with Westbrook.

00:16:27 Speaker_07
Does Murray know about this? That's our second game. The SGA thing, I always say this every year, it's just crazy to me after going to some of those games when he was a rookie that this is the guy he is now.

00:16:43 Speaker_07
That he's in a game with Luka where he just completely obliterates Luka and Luka's team. They have no answer for him. If I'm Dallas Kirk, who's my guy that's gonna be guarding SGA if I'm seeing them in round two or round three?

00:16:59 Speaker_07
Who's my stopper for SGA?

00:17:02 Speaker_08
You know, I think P.J. Washington is a huge part of that equation.

00:17:05 Speaker_07
System size, yeah.

00:17:07 Speaker_08
And I don't know if that's the correct answer, but it's not gonna be Kyrie, and it's not gonna be Luka, I think we all know that. And then they have the big, and you know, I think P.J. would be my answer, but dude, who can guard this guy?

00:17:21 Speaker_08
Nobody can guard this guy, so Dallas, I think beat them last year on both sides of the ball. And I think that it was really PJ who, if you look back at the stats from that series, did a lot on both sides.

00:17:37 Speaker_07
Yeah. He made a lot of threes and yeah.

00:17:42 Speaker_08
So I think I'm hard. I can't talk myself into what I saw from Dallas beating Oklahoma city, but I have very, very, very big recency bias right now because of what we just watched. I think if I zoomed back out seven game series, yeah.

00:17:56 Speaker_08
If PJ is going to be 20 and 10, like kind of like he was, I think it was 18 and eight in that series and shooting threes and playing great defense and they have their bigs and Luca and Kyrie, obviously at the end of games, they could, they could win four games against that team if they broke their way.

00:18:11 Speaker_07
Last year they were too small, and they almost won the series anyway, OKC. And it came down to that play in the corner when SGA, the foul when he played perfect defense, and they lucked out with that one.

00:18:23 Speaker_07
But they also didn't have Hartenstein last year, and Chet got overpowered in that series, and just. Or Caruso, and Caruso was great tonight. Yeah, they didn't have Caruso. He was great tonight.

00:18:32 Speaker_07
It's a different team, and yet they almost beat them last year. So I'm feeling great if I'm OKC. The other thing, And who knows, like Shams wrote this piece today about...

00:18:45 Speaker_07
you know, could Jimmy Butler get traded, Zach LaVigna, I know Jacoby has some thoughts on it.

00:18:50 Speaker_07
I am, like OKC to me is the perfect type of team that could make trades, because they have all these movable contracts, cheap contracts, they can add stuff together, they're not getting crushed by the apron, they have a million picks they could trade.

00:19:04 Speaker_07
I am so confused by the trade rules, and I've read everything, and as you guys know, I'm the Trade Machine Picasso, like I take this seriously. I am just absolutely flummoxed by these rules.

00:19:18 Speaker_07
And even that thing today I read where it's like, yeah, Jimmy Butler, it's like, I'm not sure anybody can add Jimmy Butler. I just, from what I understand about these rules, it feels like they made them too hard, Jacoby.

00:19:28 Speaker_07
And I'm going to be useless at the trade deadline. I don't like it.

00:19:32 Speaker_04
And I think to bring Jimmy Butler, you have to match the salary. So you're giving up whatever $40 million worth of players to bring in Jimmy Butler who wants a new contract and has a $52 million player option that he might exercise.

00:19:48 Speaker_04
It just seems like, who is Jimmy Butler away from contending? And if you're the thunder, You're going to add a player later. Chet Holmgren, your third best player in your second big.

00:19:58 Speaker_04
Like if you were the Thunder, why would you ever even think about picking up a phone call from IE?

00:20:02 Speaker_07
Well, you're not doing that. Golden State's the team. I think it would be golden state. Just, I know they're away from contending.

00:20:10 Speaker_07
Well, I think Shams put in, he had the Texas teams, San Antonio would be super interesting for that, but I think they would have to resign them. And I don't know if that's on their timetable, but golden state I think has real urgency with, uh,

00:20:24 Speaker_07
You know, I'm not just a body language guy, but I'm also the trade detective. And I did notice this weekend, all of a sudden they're pushing Kaminga. They're putting them in the starting lineup. Draymond Green's like, you can have my spot.

00:20:38 Speaker_07
When has Draymond Green ever been this magnanimous? Just, there was a lot of red flags, where I was like, huh, what are you guys doing? Almost feels like you're trying to showcase Kaminga for somebody. No, no, take my spot.

00:20:49 Speaker_07
Draymond Green, the guy who punched Jordan Poole, now he's Mr. Magnanimous, take my spot. I don't know, something that feels like the team because they're on a specific window with Curry, right?

00:21:00 Speaker_07
If you feel like you can contend for a title with Curry at age 36, he's already wearing down over the first five, six weeks. Butler makes sense for them. Kirk, you're nodding.

00:21:10 Speaker_08
Yeah, I think they've been sort of showcasing players all year. I think it helps explain why Steve Kerr's been playing 12 players a night. Oh, look at all these guys. Like, you could read into it. And I think they're one player short of being.

00:21:23 Speaker_07
So you're saying they're like the farmer's market? Yeah. They're like, come on over. We got pistachios. We got Kyle Anderson, organic. There's some chicken. Got chicken over here. Have a sample. Free sample. It's a full chicken, some fruit.

00:21:36 Speaker_08
Yeah, farm-raised Kyle Anderson over here. But I think then, but Jimmy Butler to Houston intrigues me too, because of something you said earlier, Bill, which is like, who's their guy at the end of the game? We don't have that guy.

00:21:51 Speaker_08
And Jimmy's from Texas. You could see E-May talking himself into Jimmy Butler. I'm not sold on it. The other thing that I would say is the trade machine, Picasso, is coming into hard times. This new CBA has pretty much cut

00:22:07 Speaker_08
could make a trade into half, if not more, because so many teams are limited into what kinds of trades, the financial rules, what they can and can't send out or take back are so punitive or prohibitive that just the trade market itself has shrunk.

00:22:27 Speaker_08
And I think that's going to sort of limit the amount of Picasso-ing you can do between December 15th and February.

00:22:35 Speaker_07
I think it's going to really, really harm it. Selfishly, I'm mad because I love making up fake trades and they're just going to be super unrealistic. But Jacob's, there's this flip side to it where I kind of like it,

00:22:49 Speaker_07
where guys who are in situations they might not love, to me, it's like if we're driving, like say Jacoby, you have your three kids in the car, and you're like, we're driving all the way to Washington, D.C., and we're not stopping.

00:23:07 Speaker_07
But your kid's like, Dad, can we stop? Can we get something? Can we stop, stop? And they just wear you down, and you eventually stop. This, all these apron rules are basically like the kids are trapped in the car for the entire ride now.

00:23:19 Speaker_07
Like if you're bringing an anger, and it's like, I wanna get off, can we stop? You're like, can't, sorry, can't trade you, nobody wants you.

00:23:23 Speaker_04
We're not stopping until we get to Uncle House's house. We gotta get to Uncle House's house.

00:23:27 Speaker_07
But everyone's trapped in the car, and you kinda have to make the best of it, and this is what the NBA used to be like. You're like, hey, you're stuck on your team.

00:23:35 Speaker_04
is also like the Jimmy Butler thing from Shams earlier this morning was like, Oh, here are the teams that he wants to go to. I mean, it's like, cool, right? It's kind of like the NFL was like, go find yourself a trade. Go ahead, find one. Like,

00:23:51 Speaker_04
Just because you want to go to those teams doesn't mean there's a deal between us and those teams. And to put that out publicly, it almost feels like they don't really understand the implications of the new CBA. It's not happening.

00:24:01 Speaker_04
That's a great point, dude.

00:24:02 Speaker_08
The whole trade demand ecosystem, the whole science of the trade demand from the player's perspective has to get updated, too. Because you can't just say, oh, I want to trade and make sure it's the Phoenix or whatever.

00:24:16 Speaker_07
But look at Zach Levine's situation. Like, he's playing well for Zach Levine. Like, he's 22-5-5. I've watched a couple games where in the fourth quarter, like, he's, you know, as good as he's ever looked.

00:24:29 Speaker_07
And he could've checked out or been like, well, I'm gonna nurse an injury until you guys trade me, but he's not gonna get traded, so he might as well make the best of it.

00:24:37 Speaker_07
It's a little reminds me of what happened in football, where in football there's like never trades, right? Nobody's like, we traded our left tackle today for somebody who's starting outside linebacker.

00:24:47 Speaker_07
It's just everybody's kind of stuck on their team until the end of the year. And maybe that's what basketball's becoming, which is bad for podcast content, but it may be better for basketball, right?

00:24:58 Speaker_08
I think so, and I think there's one more layer of it, which is like, the moneyball era of pro basketball is so intense, like we know so much about how bad, bad contracts are, particularly in this new CBA, that those were the contracts the teams used to be able, hey, take this guy, maybe you can deal with the contract for a year or two, and win a title.

00:25:20 Speaker_08
No, like, I was trying to think of who the best team with a terrible contract is, and there aren't many. And so it's like, okay, do you want this Levine deal or this Beale deal?

00:25:30 Speaker_08
The answer to that question is smaller than ever, not to mention the point we already made, the rules to get that player in a trade are more sort of strict than ever. So yeah, I think we're in a brand new era, and it is bad for podcast content.

00:25:45 Speaker_07
It might be Jamaal Murray. Like his extension hasn't even kicked in yet. Well, if he's gonna look like he's looked, I mean, there's some other ones like Nerkich. I'm sure Phoenix would be dying to trade him in five seconds, right?

00:26:00 Speaker_07
But yeah, if you look at the best three teams, the Celtics, OKC, and Cleveland, none of them really have like the, oh man, I wish we didn't have this contract guy.

00:26:09 Speaker_07
All the contracts are pretty good, but I also feel like, seems like people knew this era was coming. and the smarter teams were very careful.

00:26:18 Speaker_07
Even that OKC deal for Hartenstein, they overpaid him for three years based on what his market was, but it's actually a smart deal.

00:26:25 Speaker_07
That's how they got him and it's not gonna kill them down the road, unlike how Juan Soto's gonna kill the Yankees in the last five years of his deal when he's just destroying them for 60 million a year, or the Mets, I meant the Mets.

00:26:39 Speaker_07
Let's take a break. I have some NBA Cup questions for you, big picture, whether we actually like this or not. That's next. The NBA season is flying and Fando, America's number one sports book, wants to catch all the action right now.

00:26:55 Speaker_07
Fando giving everyone three months of NBA league pass. I have to do to catch every tip off and buzzer beater is place any $5 bet on the NBA. You can trail me on Fridays.

00:27:06 Speaker_07
I've been pretty hot with these 30 on 30s we're doing on Fridays with NBA 30 point scores. So stay tuned, I tweet those out on Fridays.

00:27:13 Speaker_07
Next time you get a hunch on who's gonna win or how many points a player will score, you can watch your picks come to life live. You can even bet the NBA Cup games on Wednesday.

00:27:21 Speaker_07
Just visit Fandul.com slash BS to get three months of NBA League Pass courtesy of Fandul. Make every moment more with Fandul. official Sportsbook partner of the NBA. You must be 21 plus and President Select States or 18 plus and President DC.

00:27:36 Speaker_07
After a three month free trial, the full price of League Pass will be automatically charged monthly. Cancel any time, no refunds. Terms, restrictions, and embargoes apply. Limit one pass per customer. See terms at sportsbook.fanbill.com. Gambling problem?

00:27:49 Speaker_07
Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. When it comes to the safety of me and my family, there's only one home security system I trust, and that's SimpliSafe. I love having it in my home.

00:28:02 Speaker_07
Helps protect every inch of it inside and out. And if you want to try it for yourself right now, perfect time to get it. There's an amazing Black Friday sale going on for my listeners. I am talking 50% off here, everybody.

00:28:15 Speaker_07
Also, reasons to have SimpliSafe. Holiday season's coming. Talk about this every year on the BS pod. Guess what happens during holiday season? People start kind of casing your house a little bit on Wednesdays before Thanksgiving. Are they home?

00:28:29 Speaker_07
Did they go away? Oh wait, there's no cars in the driveway anymore. I'm moving in. Christmas, packages. Maybe they're gonna try to steal those. Well, they won't if you have SimpliSafe because you're gonna be guarded against the porch pilots.

00:28:41 Speaker_07
SimpliSafe helps to stop crime before it happens. Professional monitoring agents. that can see, speak to, and deter intruders. And if someone's lurking around or acting suspiciously, they can and will take action. So check out SimpliSafe today.

00:28:54 Speaker_07
Keep your home, your family, and your peace of mind protected. And remember, a massive Black Friday sale is being extended by SimpliSafe for my listeners this week only. You can take off 50%.

00:29:06 Speaker_07
off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan, it's your last chance to claim the best offer of the year, so don't wait. Head to SimpliSafe.com slash BS to claim your discount, make sure your home is safe this season.

00:29:17 Speaker_07
Once again, SimpliSafe.com slash BS, SimpliSafe with two I's, SimpliSafe.com slash BS, there's no safe like SimpliSafe. NBA Cup, does this work? Jacobs, it's year two. Here's my case for maybe it doesn't work.

00:29:35 Speaker_07
I didn't want the Celtics to make the quarterfinals or semifinals and have to play the two extra games. I wanted the rest for them. So that tells me fundamentally, maybe this doesn't 100% work, that I wanted my team not to make it.

00:29:50 Speaker_04
Okay, that's a fair point. And I totally understand that thinking. I think the cup works. But I'll address your question. I'll say this. How upset are the Mavs right now, after being on the road for like a month, they're having everyone be sick.

00:30:04 Speaker_04
And they're like, Oh, we don't have to go to Vegas. And we get what seven days off in the middle of the year to sort of get healthy. And like, I think the Mavs are on the plane be like, Yeah, it kind of sucks. I wish we won. But

00:30:17 Speaker_04
I don't know, I don't think they're really bummed tonight.

00:30:20 Speaker_07
But I think it's four teams.

00:30:24 Speaker_04
But it's four teams, to me it's four teams like the Hawks, the Rockets, and the Thunder. I think it's really for up and coming teams to get sort of like one and you're done experience.

00:30:38 Speaker_04
So I don't think it's broken, but I think there are certain teams like the Celtics coming off a championship, like we get to win the Emirates Cup. off.

00:30:47 Speaker_07
What do you think, Kirk?

00:30:49 Speaker_08
I think it's working, but I think those are valid points. In fact, I talked to one Western conference executive who's like, Oh, I'm kind of glad we don't have to go play at Oklahoma city tonight and maybe play Houston and Vegas.

00:30:59 Speaker_08
And like, I think I'd much rather have the time off or these lesser opponents. Um, I think the league has something. I also think it's really cool that we had these two games tonight and the whole league was watching them.

00:31:11 Speaker_08
And I wish we had more of that, that sort of community feel where it's not just like league pass overload, where these games are meaningful in December, like let's not forget, like this time of year is really hard.

00:31:24 Speaker_08
I do think, and I think we talked about this last time, they should use the divisions for the groups and just bring some spice and meaning back to those. groupings of teams. I think there's some little stuff.

00:31:35 Speaker_08
I'm glad we have it, but I think it is fair to say that some teams are kinda not disappointed they're not going to Vegas this weekend.

00:31:45 Speaker_07
I know Embiid's disappointed. He wanted to get those two extra games in. I like the NBA Cup, but I think that's the criticism. I was thinking, should there be a couple other things that you win if you win, beyond just the money.

00:32:02 Speaker_07
What if you could get unapron for the rest of the season? I don't know why the players would care about that, but the fans I think would be.

00:32:08 Speaker_07
Like the Phoenix suns all of a sudden, I'd be like, wait, we're out of the lock separate apron for three months. It's like I get out of jail free card for the apron. Uh, what if you guaranteed the six playoff spot? That's what I think they should do.

00:32:22 Speaker_04
You can't fall lower than six. If you win, you got to move it later in the season then. Because like if you're locked into six, like what are we doing?

00:32:31 Speaker_07
Well, you could think about the season a little differently. It's an advantage, right? You know you don't have to be in the playing game. You know you're going no lower than six. You can rest guys a little differently.

00:32:41 Speaker_07
It's a real advantage for the season, I think would be the appeal. But then if you're a team like Atlanta,

00:32:48 Speaker_07
Or even Houston, who's probably gonna be a top six team anyway, but I think that would be pretty, or Orlando, who's losing their entire team to torn obliques. Like, you kind of want to succeed. I like that. The other one, that's really it.

00:33:06 Speaker_07
You could do a draft pick thing, but I don't know why the players on the team would care. It's like, oh, we've locked down the 15th pick.

00:33:12 Speaker_04
No, it would be like an insignificant draft pick thing. You get like an extra second rounder or something. It's like, okay, great.

00:33:18 Speaker_07
With Jacobs, we both have the reality background. You once upon a time were the czar of reality TV. Is there a reality thing we could steal for this? Like you win and you get to use that power to fuck over another team in some way? Like you could say.

00:33:32 Speaker_04
Oh, I haven't thought about it in that way.

00:33:35 Speaker_07
You get your cross and it's like the Celtics now. lose a game seven at home and you just like stick them with some sort of terrible competitive disadvantage.

00:33:44 Speaker_04
Like a rule changes, like TJ would just come out at halftime and be like, all right guys, here, here are the four point shots at three circles. I think they should use it as a testing ground for like rule changes.

00:33:58 Speaker_04
Like I think that'd be kind of fun if they were just like, No three-point line and not a four-point line or there's no corner threes. I think I think that'd be fun And I understand like there are reasons you couldn't do that.

00:34:09 Speaker_04
But just while we're spitballing I think sort of experimenting about Rule changes or court changes you've been considering in these games because they are different. It could be a playground for that

00:34:22 Speaker_08
Yeah, like the Elam ending. Wait, one more thing. The Elam ending would be great. And I know they got rid of it from the all-star game bill, but like tonight, the end of that first game was like 25 minutes, the last two or three minutes.

00:34:36 Speaker_08
And it bled into the second game. It's like, what are we doing? Doing this free throw, free throw thing. Like just let somebody win.

00:34:42 Speaker_07
So say the NBA cup quarterfinals, semis and finals are all Elam ending. We just hit a certain score and the game's over? I'm not gonna guess that.

00:34:50 Speaker_08
I mean, every pickup game we've ever played ends with a bucket, dude, and then we watch these free throw contests.

00:34:56 Speaker_08
The worst one I saw this year was Celtics-Cavs, and it was like 30 minutes, and it was back and forth, back and forth, and now, because I always say this, the team that's ahead is now fouling a lot of the time, so it's just adding to it.

00:35:08 Speaker_08
Yeah, so I'm a big Elam ending guy, but I like Jacoby's idea, make it feel special, do something else. Elam ending is the best I got for that one.

00:35:17 Speaker_07
Jacoby, would SGA be fun to play with? Would he be fun to play pickup with? Okay. He leads the league in unassisted baskets, so it's kind of one of those situations where you don't feel needed.

00:35:28 Speaker_04
I know, but here's the thing, but if you're in a pickup game and you're down six, you want SGA on your team so you stay on the court. You know what I mean?

00:35:36 Speaker_04
You always associate guys you want to play pickup with guys that move the ball and get teammates involved and sort of put people in spots. No, I want to stay on the court. Yeah, but you have SGA just to stay on the court.

00:35:46 Speaker_04
That's why he's good to play pickup.

00:35:49 Speaker_07
Yeah, when we played, we had that one guy who was the stay on the court guy. where we knew we would basically just have to rebound and play defense and he was gonna score nine of the 11 points. I can't remember what his name was.

00:36:00 Speaker_07
Jalen Rose, I think it was Jalen Rose. Jalen Rose, his name was Jalen.

00:36:04 Speaker_06
Jalen was unfair.

00:36:05 Speaker_07
He was unfair to play it. Let's talk about the other game and whether we believe in the Milwaukee Bucks yet. I thought they played really well against the Celtics on Friday in a game that was about as intense as you get in December.

00:36:19 Speaker_07
There's no love lost between those two teams, Kurt Goldsberry. There's some Giannis Jalen stuff. There's some Giannis Al Horford stuff, I felt like. Tatum has a little bird in his saddle against them.

00:36:33 Speaker_07
I don't feel like anybody really likes playing against Dame that much. I always feel like people get annoyed by him. But that was a really intense game on Friday.

00:36:42 Speaker_07
But the Celts won, but what struck me was I thought the Bucs hung with them and could've won the game. Now that green and Prince have been getting them three point shooting.

00:36:52 Speaker_07
Now that Portis who looked like he was going to be out of the league first month of the season. Now he's back. Now they have Middleton back. Giannis is averaging a 32 12 and six.

00:37:03 Speaker_07
I still don't feel like they're at that top echelon and maybe not even in the second echelon. But they're at least lingering because Giannis now, right? I don't think they're lurking, but I would go lingering for them. Is that fair?

00:37:17 Speaker_08
I think they're 11 and three in their last 14 games after starting two and eight. And what you just said, one of the sort of deep cut takes is like, yeah, AJ Green, Gary Trent, Torian Prince, Bobby Portis.

00:37:31 Speaker_08
They're getting really efficient three-point shooting from those dudes. And then Giannis stopped shooting threes. He stopped shooting threes. Today he shot his first three in six games, I think. He shot another one at the end of the game.

00:37:47 Speaker_08
He'd gone five games without shooting a three, he's attacking the rim, and then they're surrounding him with shooting. Tonight they played a smaller lineup.

00:37:54 Speaker_08
They took Brooke out and they put these aforementioned shooters, Chris Middleton's back in the lineups, Damian obviously. Spacing starts at the rim. Giannis pressures the rim better than anybody in the league right now, and he can make passes.

00:38:10 Speaker_08
If they can make those shots, they're very good. The Bucs were always supposed to be this good. The only thing weird was they were two and eight. Do I trust them to be better than the Boston Celtics?

00:38:20 Speaker_08
No, but it looks like they've righted the ship and look like they're a viable Eastern Conference contender now.

00:38:28 Speaker_08
because Giannis is putting up scoring title numbers, and they're getting this three-point shooting from the supporting cast, and now they're whole. So they have Chris, Damian, and Giannis. They were supposed to be good.

00:38:40 Speaker_07
I'm a little worried about the Lopez piece of it. He looked really old in the Celtic game, and I thought he was the biggest reason they lost.

00:38:47 Speaker_07
and it feels like there's a Giannis, Portis, Shooters, and Dame, and whether Middleton's in that or not, we'll find out, but that seems to be probably their most successful lineup, which is weird, because Lopez was so essential to what they did.

00:39:04 Speaker_07
I don't know, Jacobes, I still don't feel like the Giannis-Dame thing is perfect. And maybe it will never be, but I, it almost feels like Dame, like, it's like, hey, Giannis isn't going to play tonight, Dame.

00:39:18 Speaker_07
You're going to have to take a lot of shots. Like, I don't feel like he's shedding tears. You know what I mean? I don't feel like they've totally figured it out yet, but they're kind of scotch taping it and duct taping it together now.

00:39:29 Speaker_04
Body Language Doctor doesn't love that duo as much as I wanted to when he signed. But we always, like, I think people are critical of Dame. It's like, he scores 25.7 points a game and gets 7.5 assists a game. Like, is that so bad? Like, is that so bad?

00:39:47 Speaker_04
What are we being critical of, really? And, you know, Dairy Bird, Torian Prince is shooting 54% from three on, like, 3.6 attempts or something like it's not it's not fake.

00:39:57 Speaker_04
Like they're surrounding two of the biggest offensive weapons in the league was shooting defensively. We can just pass over that. that's tough.

00:40:08 Speaker_07
But yeah, for that, for Tatum, it's a dream to Tatum against the bucks. He's like, this is awesome. Sorry, Kirk. I know that.

00:40:18 Speaker_08
No, I was just saying when they were great, when they won it all, they were great on defense. Like this was a defensive juggernaut too, with Brooke and Janice protecting the paint. And then, you know, drew and Chris,

00:40:29 Speaker_08
and the role players all seeming like these younger Thunder Rockets teams that we're seeing. They were a great defense.

00:40:36 Speaker_08
I don't see that happening, and for that reason, I'm out, to quote Mark Cuban, on their ability to compete with Boston and maybe even Cleveland at the very top of the Eastern Conference.

00:40:48 Speaker_07
Are you a believer, Imei said this like three weeks ago, He's like, if you look at all the teams that have won a title or made the finals, they're all like top five defense.

00:41:00 Speaker_04
I think he's right.

00:41:01 Speaker_07
I actually think it's that simple.

00:41:03 Speaker_04
Yeah. And like even tonight, Suggs had Dame in front of him. And he dribbled between his legs like four times, then just like shot a three. And it was like, Suggs, that's Dame Lillard. Just put your shoulder down and go past him.

00:41:18 Speaker_04
And a key point, I was really disappointed in that particular possession. Because I think there's a reason that when Dame is guarding somebody that there's no screener. There's a reason.

00:41:28 Speaker_07
Right, well, and then when Dame wasn't on him, he was getting the switch, but they were asking a lot from Suggs in that game.

00:41:35 Speaker_07
In fact, this is a good time to bring in Steve Cerutti for two seconds, because we have a very important Orlando Magic question. So at halftime, were you on Expedia or wherever looking for Hartford to Vegas tickets? Were you thinking about it?

00:41:52 Speaker_07
You were, weren't you?

00:41:53 Speaker_01
I definitely was. And it was like it was like I saw Gladiator 2 on Friday. And I had really low. I had really low expectations for it. And I really enjoyed it. I liked the movie. I don't know if we if it needed to be made.

00:42:06 Speaker_01
It was kind of the same as the first one, just with like a new thing. I had really low expectations. I didn't know what to expect. I don't know if we hit 90 points because I'm just I don't know where the scoring comes from.

00:42:15 Speaker_01
And then, yeah, like that first quarter happens and I'm like, I'm in this team's this team that we're going to win the game. And like, You get the halftime, they kind of, you know, I think they're down one at halftime, but anything's on the table.

00:42:25 Speaker_01
It just sucked because that Suggs injury in the third quarter, they were, I think, down one at the time. He goes out for a couple minutes, and I think he comes back in, they're down eight, and they have to climb back the rest of the game to get there.

00:42:34 Speaker_01
But without that, like, at the end of the day, guys, like, when they're fully healthy, like, I think they're capable of beating anybody. They're capable of beating anybody.

00:42:41 Speaker_01
It's not, I'm not saying they'd be favored against any of these teams, but they are capable of beating anybody.

00:42:45 Speaker_07
My friend, Sean Grandy, who is the radio guy for the Celtics, who's, I think, a good basketball kind of... thinker with this stuff. He's Orlando is the team he's afraid of for the Celtics when they get everybody back.

00:42:59 Speaker_07
Cause he thinks they're defensive upside and they didn't have Isaac tonight either. He thinks they're defensive ceiling is the high, like some people would say it's Tibbs and Knicks, but I just think it's going to be too easy to get point.

00:43:12 Speaker_07
The Knicks are in a weird position where it's their offense is probably going to be more dangerous than their defense in the playoffs. But I think Orlando, uh,

00:43:21 Speaker_07
So the case for them would be the defense, giving Franz all those reps with Alpalo, and now Suggs turning into like Russell Westbrook 2017 light, like just doing everything on the magic. Jacoby, are you buying Suggs stock yet?

00:43:38 Speaker_04
I bought a lot of Suggs stock preseason because of defense. I didn't see this Suggs, but it is, this is Gonzaga Suggs. It just seems like Paolo's playing so well. And then Fran steps up and plays so well. And then France is out.

00:43:52 Speaker_04
Now Suggs steps up and plays. So if, if Suggs has legit hurt hand, it's going to be like Mo Wagner scores 30 and 12 and 10. It's like, what is happening? It just seems like someone on that team is going to play like an all-star no matter what happens.

00:44:04 Speaker_01
Anthony Black is next if Suggs goes down. Yeah, I was nervous. You gotta get some K tape or whatever. Get his obliques taped up so we can't get him out. There's some oblique epidemic breaking out in Orlando.

00:44:13 Speaker_01
But yeah, when his thumb got harassed, you gotta be kidding me. Because that's the thing about the NBA Cup, is like, cool, this is fun and all, but if we're really gonna lose Suggs for an extended period of time, pass on the NBA Cup.

00:44:24 Speaker_07
Well, the other piece with the Orlando that's been interesting with these guys going out is, I don't know, they took the, They took the training wheels off Anthony Black a little bit. He got, what's the hairdo he's rocking these days?

00:44:40 Speaker_07
He moved some hair stuff around. And he's got, there's like a little bun in the back.

00:44:44 Speaker_04
Totally different player, totally different player. I was shocked.

00:44:47 Speaker_07
He's like a new guy. I didn't know who it was.

00:44:49 Speaker_04
Who's that? It's like, oh, Anthony Black.

00:44:52 Speaker_07
But there's a lot of stuff to like with him. And I don't really know what his ceiling is, and I'm sure when we get to like game four of a playoff series and he's in the corner, teams are gonna be like, go ahead, take that.

00:45:03 Speaker_07
But the fact that he's not a bust feels like a win, so really.

00:45:07 Speaker_01
So it was kind of an uncharacteristic game from him. He was weirdly bad defensively tonight. He got lost like a couple of times, but he actually scored way more than you think he was.

00:45:16 Speaker_01
Had assist rebounds and a lot of that was just like, you know, because they just need an extra ball handler. I would say too, like I'm not nervous like the panic meter is not going off, but like $22 million a year like KCP 7 points.

00:45:27 Speaker_01
Kind of kind of kind of hoping for more than that in a situation where you kind of need a veteran to step up. And honestly, like all these young guys, like even just like Tristan Silva, like he's.

00:45:37 Speaker_01
He started tonight start a lot of games since Franz and Apollo have been out and he's been fine And I really like the two big lineup the wind Wendell playing the four Kind of like it's it's it can't really work whenever when they're fully healthy, but in this version of the team without Isaac He's actually really good at getting those spots like kind of top of the key throwing those lob passes like being a facilitator I think he had the best plus plus minus on the magic tonight.

00:45:59 Speaker_07
He was awesome Kirk, what do you see from the magic?

00:46:03 Speaker_08
Yeah. So Rudy should be thrilled, man. I was talking to Vince Carter and Jay live. We were watching this game and we're like, Holy crap. Like in the ass to score on. And like Oklahoma City, they're a pain in the ass to pass on and get rebounds on.

00:46:24 Speaker_08
I love the two big lineup. I love that it's Mo and Goga and Wendell. Like they're playing bigger than almost any De Silva too. When he's at the three, they're just big.

00:46:35 Speaker_08
And yeah, the biggest point here is they didn't have three or four of their normal rotation pieces.

00:46:40 Speaker_08
Gary Harris, Jonathan Isaac, but obviously, Paolo and Franz, who, you know, torn oblique club, like, stand up, like, and as a holder of Suggs coin for years now, You guys should be thrilled.

00:46:57 Speaker_08
I know you didn't get the result tonight, but it looks like you're built for war for a long time, and you're the Orlando Magic.

00:47:03 Speaker_07
You guys should be thrilled. And two games you didn't have to play. It's not like the NBA Cup was gonna do anything for you. It's two more games where nobody's getting hurt, right? Oh, somebody's got time out.

00:47:14 Speaker_04
Hold on. This is just too much. Too much for me. They don't have a player that can hit a three point shot in 2024. They don't have one. So can we just like address that? They don't have a player that can hit a three point shot.

00:47:32 Speaker_07
It's tough. 30 they're 30th in a three point shooting 31 percent. They're 28th in corner threes.

00:47:39 Speaker_04
Is that so scared to play him? I'm so scared to play him in the playoffs. Like, okay, the worst shooting team in the league.

00:47:44 Speaker_01
But Paulo Suggs and Franz are all fine. They're all fine.

00:47:48 Speaker_07
Why'd you have to do that to Cerruti? No, it's a good point. You guys have torn obliques.

00:47:52 Speaker_04
I'm sorry. No one wants to see this team in the playoffs.

00:47:56 Speaker_08
He said their defense is hard. But I think those corner threes come from good movement elsewhere. Corner threes are created when their best offensive players are doing other shit somewhere else on the court.

00:48:07 Speaker_08
Those guys aren't playing, particularly their best offensive player. And now Franz isn't playing, who's also great at offense. So those are like indicator species. Yes, their three-point shooting personnel, Jacoby, does lack. KCP is underwhelming.

00:48:21 Speaker_08
but some of these are sort of byproducts of the offense itself just not having its alpha and beta creators.

00:48:27 Speaker_07
Oh, I like how you used the alpha and beta. So Rudy, did you know where your oblique was five weeks ago?

00:48:33 Speaker_01
No idea, I thought it was a leg injury. Thought it was a part of your hip?

00:48:38 Speaker_07
Where did you think it was on your body?

00:48:41 Speaker_01
I thought it was like an inner quad thing. I don't know.

00:48:43 Speaker_04
Do you know where it was? Yeah. Cause they're called love handles. That's all you have to do is for us, for athletes, they're called obliques for us. They're called love handles. It's a love handle injury that is sweeping through the magic locker room.

00:48:59 Speaker_04
Love handles.

00:48:59 Speaker_07
I wonder if they even knew how to diagnose this in like the eighties. Like Bob McAdoo had a torn oblique for an entire year and had no idea, because he's like, ah, my side hurts. They're like, Bob, take some aspirin.

00:49:14 Speaker_07
But how did two guys, I know everyone's asking this, but it is fucking weird. How did two guys get the same injury? It's like a haunted house.

00:49:21 Speaker_01
I don't understand it. I guess Fran said he doesn't even know what he did it. He doesn't know at any point in the game.

00:49:26 Speaker_07
I heard that, they were showing him different plays and he couldn't even know what the play was.

00:49:30 Speaker_01
So maybe he doesn't even know where his oblique is either. He's like, what's hurt?

00:49:34 Speaker_07
Really weird. Rank your three, your three teams you're afraid of in the East. Boston obviously one, who's two?

00:49:42 Speaker_01
Cleveland and I guess I'm, I guess I'm buying the Milwaukee, the Milwaukee Kool-Aid. What were the names?

00:49:50 Speaker_07
Oh, please. Oh, die easy next fan. Dave Jacoby is upset. No.

00:49:55 Speaker_01
And this maybe the number one offense in the league. You just kicked our ass the other night and scared the crap out of me because if we had lost that game by 37, we would've been out of the NBA Cup.

00:50:04 Speaker_01
That would've been one of the most embarrassing losses of my life. It was on the table. It was on the table in the third quarter. And against and against Tibbs, that's the one guy you don't want to be against. But I don't know. I'm still.

00:50:14 Speaker_01
I mean, the cap Brunson thing is incredible offensively right now, but they're not the same team defensively. And I just I'm a little. I'm a little worried about the playoff thing with the playoff cat defensively. How's that going to look?

00:50:24 Speaker_01
What's the Mitchell Robinson minutes like? I don't know. I'm just like I'm with Bill to the bridges thing. Listen, we're picking hairs there. They were good. They're good team obviously, but I I don't know. There's something about this next team.

00:50:34 Speaker_01
I'm not ready to fully go all in on.

00:50:36 Speaker_07
Kirk, were you seeing 25 and 13 with 46% three-point shooting from Towns this year? Was that in your bingo card?

00:50:43 Speaker_08
Dude, yeah, he is incredible. I didn't know that Tom Thibodeau was an offensive genius until this year. I think that there. Just found that out, yeah. Yeah, I just learned that. 25 and 13, though, I think I would've put him around there.

00:50:59 Speaker_08
The 45, 46% number from three point is crazy, dude, for a big man.

00:51:01 Speaker_07
I thought it was gonna go the other way. I thought it was gonna be like, oh, they gotta figure out how to get the ball more because there haven't been enough.

00:51:09 Speaker_07
Instead, it's like this him and Brunson as a combo have been crazy, and then it seems like the Knick fans really like him, too. That's the other thing that I think was up in the air.

00:51:19 Speaker_08
they're going to get precious and they're going to get Mitch Robinson back. And we don't, I don't think we've seen what their defense really could be, but I'm with Saruti. I definitely go Celtics, Cavs, Knicks.

00:51:32 Speaker_08
Then I go bucks, but I do think the Knicks offense deserves respect. They can, they can score against anybody in a variety of ways. It's just like their, their shooting is great. And then Brunson and Kat

00:51:43 Speaker_08
I do love the geometry, to borrow Jalen's basketball geometry phrase. I love what the Knicks have spacing the court right now.

00:51:51 Speaker_07
Yeah, I think I'd go sledge to the Bucs because of just how crazy Giannis is this year.

00:51:57 Speaker_06
Yeah.

00:51:58 Speaker_07
It just seems like anytime he wants to go downhill, he turns. So my daughter went to the game on Friday because my dad got a COVID shot. And I don't know, first of all, why did he get a COVID shot? Great question.

00:52:10 Speaker_04
Second, he's like, I don't know. Did he get injected with COVID? Is that his COVID shot now? I was like, nobody, dad, it's 2024.

00:52:19 Speaker_07
What are you doing? So he got a COVID shot and then go figure, him and my stepmom both felt like crap the next day. So my daughter got to go with her boyfriend and she hadn't seen Giannis in person.

00:52:33 Speaker_07
And it was, so she called me after and she was like, dad, is he like the best player of all time? Like, where does he, what's going on with that? It just seems like every time he wants, he could just bulldoze over everybody and get a layup or a dunk.

00:52:47 Speaker_07
And I'm like, yeah, it's kind of who he is. This fat guy's gonna have 104 points this weekend, two games.

00:52:59 Speaker_07
But I think we've been watching the honest thing for so long we forget just fundamentally how insane it is that he could just basically get to wherever he wants no matter what the defense is. Middleton is the thing with them.

00:53:11 Speaker_07
To me it's a 3A, 3B thing and I wanna know where we are with Middleton in March. And then Orlando's kinda lurking as the Who knows, team? Miami, it's interesting.

00:53:24 Speaker_07
And I don't think they have any chance to move up into this ladder, but they do seem like they've figured out something over the last two weeks with their team. Hero carries the offense for three quarters. Butler kind of takes over late.

00:53:37 Speaker_07
Bam's having a really weird season. All his field goal stuff and stuff around the rim is terrible. It's really uncharacteristic. But for some reason, I could see them maybe upsetting somebody in one round, but not more than that. And that's really it.

00:53:54 Speaker_07
I don't even know who else we would have in the East. So Rudy, you seem like serenely confident, just focused on March and April.

00:54:04 Speaker_01
It just sucked the fronts injury sucks because it takes away like the potential all-star the potential most improved like all that stuff is Kind of not the way the supermax though, which is good for you.

00:54:13 Speaker_01
I guess that could have been like a Salary cap nightmare to have to speak in a contract I need to I need to say this to the people who this summer were criticizing the Jalen sucks deal off for you What was a five years 150 million dollars for a guy that scores 12 points that?

00:54:29 Speaker_01
A lot of people. Yes. Yes. A lot of a lot of a lot of our friends border. Maybe some Raptors fans were still a little upset about how that how that draft. By the way, the twenty twenty one draft is my favorite draft in recent history. It's incredible.

00:54:40 Speaker_01
I go down the list of just every like week. I feel like you change the order of what guys you want. Yeah. Obviously, Franz Suggs. What do we got? Cade Mobley, Shane Goon, Jalen Green, Barnes, Jalen Johnson was in that draft. Yeah.

00:54:50 Speaker_08
Unbelievable draft.

00:54:52 Speaker_01
Pay sucks. The man's worth the money. He's one of the best winners in the league.

00:54:55 Speaker_01
He does things that other guys, like he is, he is the ultimate winning player and whatever you need him to do, and you saw it tonight, like he doesn't, he doesn't need to be a 30 point a game score, but he was tonight.

00:55:03 Speaker_07
I think he's a third guy on a championship team. and maybe even potentially has the ceiling of being a second guy if he was with somebody incredible, right? Like being the Jamal Murray, Drew Holiday spot, if you get to play next to a Janus or Jokic.

00:55:22 Speaker_07
All right, thanks for stopping in, Sarudi.

00:55:23 Speaker_01
Thanks, guys. Appreciate you, Sarudi.

00:55:25 Speaker_07
Congrats on your heroic effort tonight.

00:55:28 Speaker_01
Yeah, hopefully we see you in April, May.

00:55:31 Speaker_07
Before we go, Jacoby, you wanna talk about Embiid? I do. What do you got?

00:55:38 Speaker_04
What the fuck is going on? What is going on? Like, my questions for you, Bill, are what is the plan? Do his teammates like him?

00:55:52 Speaker_04
And all I hear about is like, how little he communicates with the team about his availability, how he's late all the time, like Verno knew some guy who said he missed the team buses like the day after the report came out that he was late.

00:56:05 Speaker_04
It's just all like, He's become, in the last three years, he's turned from one of the most likable stars in the league to someone who I'd like less and less and less every three months. And we're there right now.

00:56:22 Speaker_04
So here's where I've landed, Goldsberry.

00:56:27 Speaker_07
To me, remember we said that joke about Twitter, when Twitter was really a place a lot of people went to that you just wish you could have certain stories and just not even see them, that you could meet the story.

00:56:39 Speaker_07
If the story was happening, you just wouldn't even know about it. That's how I feel about it. Embiid might play tonight. Embiid's not gonna play tonight. Embiid's gonna rest tonight. Embiid has some swelling again. Embiid's feeling better.

00:56:52 Speaker_07
I I'm just out, I'm tapping out. I can't do it. And the chronic swelling was the most disturbing part of that story. I thought this weekend, it's not even like he reentered or anything. It was like, yeah, it's maintenance. Cause he has chronic swelling.

00:57:05 Speaker_07
What does chronic swelling mean? None of it sounds good. Goldsberry, you were at San Antonio when this was going on with Kawhi. It was a little different. There was more mystery. And Kawhi was younger.

00:57:14 Speaker_07
He wasn't seven foot three, carrying a bunch of weight. But this just has a stranglehold over your franchise after a certain point, right?

00:57:23 Speaker_08
Yeah, that's a perfect word. It really is just like a black cloud or a stranglehold. I'd actually compare it to Tim. A lot of people forget that Tim Duncan had a really bad knee his entire career.

00:57:35 Speaker_08
The scourge that is known as load management has a lot to do with Tim Duncan's knee and Greg Popovich and the staff really making sure that they could get everything.

00:57:46 Speaker_08
But that also meant that Tim had to be very serious about his nutrition and his sleep and all this other stuff. And I think as Joelle

00:57:55 Speaker_08
enters sort of the later stage of his career, if he wants to keep playing at this level, he has to be more serious, more professional, not just about being on time to the bus, but taking care of his body.

00:58:07 Speaker_08
Like the reason LeBron is LeBron at this age is because he was really careful about his body and respected that stuff. And unfortunately, this is what it looks like when somebody doesn't do that kind of thing, in my opinion.

00:58:22 Speaker_08
And I'm not quite sure where this is going. I do think Philadelphia has reasons to be more optimistic than the last time we talked about these guys on the podcast.

00:58:33 Speaker_08
I still think the East, what we just went through, is like, oh, maybe Miami's the five seed. Unfortunately, there needs to be eight playoff teams in the Eastern Conference. And I think Philadelphia will get one of those slots.

00:58:46 Speaker_08
And so I think they could be pretty patient here. I just agree with what you guys are saying. This is really troubling, like the lack of communication, the lack of clarity, the weird Timmy Bond temps quotes from this week.

00:59:00 Speaker_08
It's depressing, I don't even know if it's injured, it's just inflammation. These are bad signs, guys.

00:59:05 Speaker_07
Yeah, this happened to the Celtics in 09 with KG. I don't know if you remember. KG got hurt. They were like 31-5. They had some crazy record. And it was like, KG's coming back. And then it was just, is he coming back? And then it was like, team not sure.

00:59:20 Speaker_07
Still feeling pain. Nobody's saying anything. And it just turns into this that like you said, a black cloud where you don't know game to game we tweak. What's weird is that I guess he looked pretty good in that Bulls game.

00:59:32 Speaker_07
I didn't watch it, I just saw the highlights.

00:59:34 Speaker_04
I watched the game. It was weird. He started out terrible. He was 0 for 7 or something. Everything was short. That Memphis game was the same thing where everything was short. And he has this brace, like his full leg brace on.

00:59:48 Speaker_04
And then he started to get warmed up. And they're spamming this like, they're spamming this high pick and roll with him and Maxi. And Maxi would just give him a pocket pass. And he would just shoot from like 16 feet.

00:59:57 Speaker_04
And Bucevic just didn't do anything about it. And even if Bucevic was on him, he would just jab step and then shoot over him. And he was like, I don't have the numbers for him. He's like eight for 10 from like around the foul line.

01:00:08 Speaker_04
Which is where, in my opinion, when he was best, when actually Doc was a coach, he would just like operate from the foul line. But he would do a lot of distributing and like,

01:00:15 Speaker_04
Driving but they really just like it got to the point when like the third quarter He was just absolutely wet from the mid-range Like he scored like a like a ton of points after starting starting over seven looking like you might as well Just like go back on the bench

01:00:28 Speaker_07
Yeah, it's like when you see, like in a sports movie, there's like the fat old washed up guy who wanders on the court and just starts hitting like 20 footers. It just seems like a bead.

01:00:40 Speaker_07
He's so skilled from 18, 19 feet, it doesn't matter that he hadn't played for a month. All of a sudden he could just hit nine straight 20 footers.

01:00:49 Speaker_07
you know, not to be a party pooper, but, you know, they're in this stretch, they were calling it, Hollinger called it NBA, the NBA bye week basically, where everybody has like one or two games over the course of eight days, and they're playing Chicago, then they have all this rest, so he can have a game, he's playing Vucevic, he's playing the Bulls, who are a bottom five defensive team.

01:01:08 Speaker_07
And he can go out there, get a good run, get his points, not have to worry about playing the next day. It's hard to feel optimistic after that, is my point. Like I want to see what their schedule starts to get harder.

01:01:19 Speaker_07
I think at the end of the year they've got, I think they have a road trip. Is he going to be on the road trip? Is he going to play? Then there's the part that you mentioned about the teammates being asked about it. What do you think about Joel?

01:01:31 Speaker_07
How much do you guys miss Joel? It's just day after day. You know, it's not awesome, especially when you're competing against teams like OKC, where it's like everybody's young and hungry and they're all doing the post-game press conferences together.

01:01:45 Speaker_07
And they're hanging out and they're ready to go. So I don't know how it plays out. I'll tell you this though, the extension.

01:01:49 Speaker_08
Yeah.

01:01:52 Speaker_06
That's just a wow.

01:01:57 Speaker_08
That is a very debilitating contract. And we talked about this earlier. It's like you don't see a lot of good teams with this new cap bill with any bad contracts, let alone a max contract with a guy who's not playing at that level.

01:02:11 Speaker_07
That hasn't even kicked in from the extension part yet.

01:02:14 Speaker_08
It's like how do you build a team when you have that much sort of money locked up in a player that may or may not even be able to play most nights.

01:02:24 Speaker_07
Jacoby, who's your favorite rookie?

01:02:27 Speaker_04
My favorite rookie? In terms of like to watch or like I would want on my team. Because I mean, my favorite rookie is obviously Jared McCain, just like as a vibe. You know what I mean?

01:02:41 Speaker_04
Because he's so much fun and just sort of like so himself off the court. But I am also on Risa Shea Island.

01:02:53 Speaker_07
I wish he made threes. He's like 28% from three, but everything else is there. It's fluid. I know. I like him.

01:03:00 Speaker_04
That team of Johnson, Daniels, Resashay, it's like Trey or no Trey, that is a core that I really, really like. I'm much higher in Atlanta than I should be, and I'll admit that, but I feel the same about Resashay. He had a huge game.

01:03:16 Speaker_04
I forget who he was against. It was early in the season. He had like 30 points or something. I was like, this dude looks like a number one pick in the NBA draft.

01:03:21 Speaker_07
He's good, he knows what he's doing. I had over bets for them before the season when I was in Denver last week, I doubled down, because the over was still too low. Because I think that's a over 500 team. I think my favorite rookie is Castle.

01:03:38 Speaker_07
For what he's gonna do I think this year, I think they're gonna have real trouble keeping him out of the lineup, and there's a chance he's their second best player by the end of the year. I just like him. I like how hard he plays.

01:03:51 Speaker_07
He seems like the kind of guy OKC would have. Just like a really, really, really gives a shit two-way guy. He can't really shoot yet. But I thought he was my favorite guy heading into the draft.

01:04:02 Speaker_07
I thought he's the guy I would have taken number one if I was Atlanta. And everything I've seen from him. I would not waver on that one.

01:04:11 Speaker_07
I want to see more, Reed Shepard is the one I think I'm the most interested by because I don't think VanVleet's had a good season and the shooting stats back it up, like they're not good.

01:04:20 Speaker_07
And I wonder, you know, I know they have like a, I forget if it's a player option or a team option next year, but Reed Shepard within two years will probably be running that team. But I almost, that's one of those where you want like,

01:04:32 Speaker_07
you know, VMB to have some very minor injury for three days or three games, just to kind of see Reed Shepard get to drive the car out of the garage a couple times. He's one, it's weird, I like this draft more than I thought, Kirk.

01:04:48 Speaker_07
There's a lot of guys, they're not superstars, but there's a lot of guys where I'm like, I kind of like that guy. Even Klingon on Portland, I like Zach Eady, there's a bunch of them.

01:04:57 Speaker_08
I'm gonna come back to you on Eadie, because I need to know how the surf has been over at Eadie Island, if the seawalls are holding up.

01:05:05 Speaker_08
But I want to know, yes, Steven, Castle is the answer for me, and it's not close, and I'm obviously close to the Spurs. They are very excited about all the stuff he does. I love the description of a Thunder-like player.

01:05:18 Speaker_08
He is that kind of dog in him stereotype, but he does the stuff that doesn't show up in the box score. They love this guy. He's adding sort of an edge to their group. I think Jeremy Sohan is kind of like that too, and I think it could help them.

01:05:33 Speaker_08
they're destined to build a great defense in San Antonio, and I think he could be part of that. Like Lou Dort, another potentially great defender, he needed to get a shot, and Louis figured that out, so I feel like Castle could get a little of that.

01:05:52 Speaker_08
Dalton Connect obviously needs to be mentioned. I know he's older, but I think he's been fantastic, given where they got him in the draft. I'm still on Richochet Island, I'm not giving up on that anytime soon.

01:06:06 Speaker_08
But for me, I'll say Reed Shepard I think is gonna be great in this league for a long time, but I'm going Castle has really won me over in the last few weeks specifically, but tell me, Bill, Zach Eady, was he everything you dreamed of?

01:06:20 Speaker_08
Or are you a little bit let down at this point in the season?

01:06:23 Speaker_07
Well, I think Memphis is so deep.

01:06:26 Speaker_06
Yeah.

01:06:26 Speaker_07
That I thought he would actually be this important, like weird, just kind of, you know, throw a cannonball in the pool just to shake it up kind of thing, but they don't need it. They just have too many good bench guys. Their bench is crazy.

01:06:42 Speaker_07
And the fact that Aldama is actually good now.

01:06:44 Speaker_04
You can't take minutes away from Huff and Aldama? What are you crazy? He's also not available. He's just not available right now. We haven't seen him too much.

01:06:51 Speaker_07
Yeah, true. That's probably the worst possible situation for a guy like that. It's like your team's gonna just be awful and you're just gonna learn some bad habits, but too early to say what we talk about him.

01:07:07 Speaker_07
I mean, one other thing with Memphis, like another reason that Edie's probably not even gonna play that much is that Brandon Clark. I was so impressed with him in the Boston game, but just it feels like he's got his explosiveness back.

01:07:19 Speaker_07
And he's a really unique player, like that crazy undersized energy guy that always seems to be on good teams. So yeah, I like the draft.

01:07:28 Speaker_07
We'll see with Dillingham, that was the other one that I was super duper intrigued by, but it feels like they phased them out a little bit because they're trying to get their defense going. So we'll see what happens with that.

01:07:41 Speaker_07
Who's your most disappointing team, Jacoby, Indiana?

01:07:45 Speaker_04
I mean, you're leading the witness, so I'm going to try to go with another team.

01:07:49 Speaker_07
Oh, you're going to zag on me? That's fine.

01:07:51 Speaker_04
I'm trying to, but I mean, obviously the most disappointing team is the Sixers, but I think there's a reason for that. It's just availability. I think the Sixers will turn around and end up being a playoff team.

01:08:00 Speaker_04
Let's not forget they were in the play-in last year. and ended up in a really good series against the Knicks. But it has to be the Pacers and Halliburton.

01:08:08 Speaker_04
And remember this time last year, during the in-season tournament, it was called at the time, they were the belle of the ball. And Halliburton was this rising superstar.

01:08:20 Speaker_04
They put him in the stupid commercial with Rosario Dawson, and he's not even a factor whatsoever. And his home road stuff is really strange. I don't think I've seen anything like that.

01:08:32 Speaker_04
But yeah, I would, I would say the Pacers because it's, it's a real, you know, the expectations were at a point where they're just not reaching.

01:08:40 Speaker_07
It's probably Tommy Alters fault. Who's your most disappointing team, Kurt?

01:08:44 Speaker_08
Well, this one's for Chris Vernon, the Memphis Grizzlies. I've been very disappointed. What do you know? I'm just kidding. Yeah, that's right.

01:08:52 Speaker_07
That's right. I would say

01:08:57 Speaker_08
the Minnesota Timberwolves, because I thought, I hand up, I thought the Randall trade was good. Dante DiVincenzo too, it hasn't worked. It has not worked.

01:09:09 Speaker_08
They went from having a very strong identity with great defense and good offense, to not really having an identity and looking like a middle of pack team in the Western Conference, when most of us thought they were going up a level.

01:09:23 Speaker_08
not down a level in this exact season, Bill. So for me, I think the Pacers have a very strong claim to this conference finalists.

01:09:32 Speaker_08
But I will say Minnesota, because I really want Anthony Edwards to be the face of American superstars in the next five, 10 years. I love everything about him.

01:09:42 Speaker_08
So I've been particularly disappointed with that team's performance after what they did last year.

01:09:48 Speaker_07
Those are two great choices. Congratulations to both of you. But the answer is the Phoenix Suns.

01:09:54 Speaker_04
They don't have KD. Okay. What do you want them to do?

01:09:57 Speaker_07
Yep. They don't have KD. Make excuses for Big Shot Bob Sarver. They're 13 and 11.

01:10:02 Speaker_04
They're like one in nine without KD.

01:10:04 Speaker_07
Okay. But guess what? They traded all their first round picks. They traded McHale Bridges. They traded Cam Johnson. They traded Deandre Ayton. They traded all their second round picks. They traded everything to have basically a three guy team.

01:10:21 Speaker_07
And one of the three guys has been in the league since 2007 and has a bunch of injuries and has gotten hurt twice. And I don't know why I fell for it. It made me mad. They were one of my favorite overs. I picked them to win the division.

01:10:33 Speaker_07
I thought they were gonna be a 50-plus win team, and I forgot the fact that they're built around this guy who's been in the league for 18 years, asking him to be their rim protector, their crunch time scorer, to do 30 a game, nine rebounds a game, make 50% of your shots and 45% of your threes, do everything, and it's like, oh, guess what?

01:10:52 Speaker_07
He lasted a month before he got hurt twice, and I'm just mad at myself more than anything, but you have to be disappointing when you trade literally a decade of stuff for the team you have in your 13 and 11. So that's my answer.

01:11:08 Speaker_04
They've made the Beal trade where you're like, that's great. Well, like no one liked that trade.

01:11:14 Speaker_07
Yeah. Especially now with all the apron stuff that happened, that trade looks even a hundred times worse.

01:11:19 Speaker_07
Like you would much rather have the flexibility now, but when you just consider all the assets they sent out for the team that they have now, and it's all hinging on, well, when Durant's healthy, Might not happen, you know?

01:11:33 Speaker_07
He's seven foot one, and he's had a lot of lower, below the hip injuries at this point, and they put a huge burden on him in playing big minutes. And I would just be nervous if I was the Suns.

01:11:45 Speaker_04
Yeah, I can see it. Counterpoint. You don't want to draw them in the first round of the playoffs. Let's imagine that KD plays well, gets back, they're gonna climb in the standings, like right now I think they're 10th or whatever.

01:11:57 Speaker_04
They're gonna climb in the standings, and then you see them in the first round, and you're like, man, Booker and KD can get on a heater. It feels a little bit like, they're basically the Sixers.

01:12:10 Speaker_07
There is a world.

01:12:13 Speaker_04
No, no, the Rockets have zero. They're one of the best teams in the league.

01:12:18 Speaker_07
But they can play defense, though.

01:12:19 Speaker_04
Yes.

01:12:20 Speaker_07
I guess for me, Kirk, with Phoenix, now that Nurkic is pretty much unplayable, so leaning on Plumlee now as their center, and Tyus Jones, these are like bench guys.

01:12:33 Speaker_07
These are guys that would be like 10th or 11th players on the Celtics or the Thunder, and these are two of their crunch time guys.

01:12:40 Speaker_08
Yeah, it goes back to our theme earlier. It's like, there's not a lot of old and overpaid great teams in the NBA right now. And they're best players older, as you pointed out. Devin Booker's certainly not old. I'm not mad at his contract.

01:12:53 Speaker_08
The Beal Deal, to me, sticks out like a sore thumb on their cap sheet. NERC, like, you have to have pretty much a perfect roster. And I kind of agree with you. Doesn't everybody have at least one superstar that we're talking about winning at all?

01:13:10 Speaker_08
Yeah, pretty much. I think that is fair. And to me, the differentiating stuff is now lower down on your depth chart. And that's where this team is just really not great.

01:13:20 Speaker_08
And I don't think they'll ever be able to play defense well enough to keep up with the top teams in the West. But I keep going back to that Bradley Beal

01:13:29 Speaker_08
decision, because that was a lot of depth they traded, essentially, for one other player that might have sort of a repetitive role next to Devin and Kevin.

01:13:40 Speaker_07
70 plus million for Bradley Beal and Nirkage and Bulbbul. Is Bulbbul still on the team?

01:13:46 Speaker_04
Yeah. Smells like new owner decisions.

01:13:49 Speaker_07
Guys, thanks for staying up with me. It's a pleasure seeing you. Great seeing you in your weird, undisclosed New York City location at one in the morning. We don't know where you are. Be careful walking home, Jacobes. Kirk, great to see you.

01:14:04 Speaker_07
Even though we were your sloppy seconds tonight, I had a great time talking to you guys. I will see you soon, I'm sure. Thanks for coming up. This episode is brought to you by NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV.

01:14:19 Speaker_07
There's a lot to be thankful for this season. For one, I'm thankful you can get NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV right now for only $209. That's exactly what you need as we head right into the playoffs. You can invite your friends over.

01:14:33 Speaker_07
Maybe you have a multi, you could have four different games, one for you, One each for the three other friends you invite. You can change the games around. As soon as a game, the outcome becomes pretty certain, dump that game, put in another one.

01:14:48 Speaker_07
I've become the multi-view master. The moment one of the games is losing steam, I'm ready to move right in and move it for another one. Build, Your own multi-view, one of my favorite words. Thank yourself this holiday season.

01:15:01 Speaker_07
Get NFL Sunday ticket for the rest of the NFL regular season for just $209. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS. Terms and embargoes apply. Device and content restrictions apply. No cancellations. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.

01:15:15 Speaker_07
It's football season and Uber Eats is dropping undefeated deals on all your game day favorites. This week's score, buy one, get one free six piece boneless wings from Buffalo Wild Wings now on Uber Eats.

01:15:27 Speaker_07
And if you're craving even more, we've got you covered with game day and deals on pizza, burgers, tacos, and more. all season long. Uber Eats, official on-demand food delivery partner of the NFL. Order now for game day, terms, taxes, and fees apply.

01:15:42 Speaker_07
See app for details. All right, we're taping this part on a Monday. I did a Rewatchables taping with Kyle Brandt, who we haven't been together in a long time. Really since Super Bowl with the Giants and the Pats that I never like to talk about.

01:15:58 Speaker_07
Craig Horlbeck is here too. Let's talk football. There's no reason for this. We just turned the mics on.

01:16:03 Speaker_07
Sal brought up last night on the podcast about whether if you were, granted, it's like a generic talk show segment, but it really got my brain turning about Josh Allen versus Mahomes.

01:16:16 Speaker_07
Mahomes, the resume versus what we're actually watching week to week, game to game, like the shit that he's doing, the shit when they're down 35 to 13 against the Rams. And you're just like, not turning this off. I feel like Josh can bring this back.

01:16:30 Speaker_07
You've been on the bills thing forever. So is anything different this year or is, Are the toys better for him? Is it just the experience? What is it? What's different? Between the ears.

01:16:42 Speaker_05
It's like the happiest he's ever been in his life. And I mean like in all different ways. Is that a Stefan Diggs subtweet? A little bit. Yeah. It's funny to think about. Like, can you even remember the last Bill's loss? It's been so long.

01:16:54 Speaker_05
before the Rams game.

01:16:55 Speaker_05
They lost to the Texans that night, and the take was like, wow, Diggs got over on the bills, and there was this viral moment of Diggs like side-eyeing him, and we haven't heard from Diggs since he got hurt, and now he's taking over the world.

01:17:06 Speaker_05
But, loves his offensive coordinator, never more comfortable, loves the guys in the room, and I don't think this is irrelevant, like,

01:17:13 Speaker_05
He's engaged to a movie star and a pop star and his personal life is out of control, like, over the hill, over the moon, amazing. And he has a good run game and a good offensive line. Like, what do you want as a quarterback?

01:17:23 Speaker_05
My line's awesome, my running backs are awesome, I have, like, a really cool girl that I'm with, and, like, my receivers are cool guys. And I know they're not Calvin Johnson, but, like, they make plays for me.

01:17:32 Speaker_05
I think he's so happy and so confident, I think it's great.

01:17:34 Speaker_03
Yeah, we joked last week on the Fantasy Pod that last week was Josh Allen's Apex Mountain, right? Engaged to Haley Steinfeld, had the big night game, whole thing. Literally a week later, he already beat it.

01:17:44 Speaker_03
Even though he lost to the Rams, I would say now this is his Apex Mountain. He had the greatest day in fantasy football history, basically. 52 points. And he locked up the MVP. You think it's done?

01:17:53 Speaker_06
Yeah.

01:17:54 Speaker_07
I think he did, yeah. I can't count out Lamar yet for some reason, but I think it's like, FanDuel would say it's done. It's like, he's like a minus 500 fan. In a regular year, Lamar.

01:18:03 Speaker_05
There's still a month left. There's Lamar fatigue. He's already got it a couple times. Yeah. And I, listen, I was, I want Saquon to win a bat. It'd just be cool.

01:18:08 Speaker_05
he would have to have the perfect campaign, like he'd have to break the Dixon record, he'd have to have the touchdown, everything. Allen just took it away.

01:18:15 Speaker_03
I'm not sure it can be Saquon. Oh, really? It's hard. Two years ago, the Eagles made the Super Bowl with Miles Sanders. Yeah.

01:18:22 Speaker_07
And so it's like, I just... I'm out. I did this last week. I'm out on the Saquon. I just think like... I want it too. It would be cool, but I don't think they can do it.

01:18:29 Speaker_07
This is the dumbest way to think about it, but I also think it's the best way to think about it. When somebody gets hurt, what happens to the line? Like if Josh Allen got hurt, the Bills line moves by nine points.

01:18:39 Speaker_07
If Barkley gets hurt, the Eagles line moves by like two and a half points.

01:18:42 Speaker_03
Again, they were like the best team in the league with Miles Sanders.

01:18:45 Speaker_07
Yeah. So that's what I hate that it has to be a quarterback pretty much every year, unless the guy's having the most amazing season ever or there's no like awesome quarterback. But for the most part, this is the most, it's like saying like,

01:18:59 Speaker_07
No, the pilot's not the MVP of this airplane. It's actually the third flight attendant. Got those peanuts. She's killing it. It's like, you know who's the MVP? The fucking pilot, because we're crashing if the pilot doesn't make out.

01:19:10 Speaker_05
But I think as the Allen thing, especially as it pertains to my home, my concern is that that Rams game, 20 years from now, when you tell your kids, your grandkids about Josh Allen, that's the Josh Allen experience.

01:19:22 Speaker_05
He's unbelievably cool superhero action star, and the Bills lose. That's it. Right.

01:19:26 Speaker_07
And they have the dopey play with the QB sneak, where they waste the time out.

01:19:30 Speaker_05
Is that this era? What are you doing? I just worry that he is Like Dominique Wilkins or something, like just so awesome, incredible talent. What did it amount to? He's even said it. He's like, he said it. I'm sick of winning t-shirts.

01:19:43 Speaker_05
He has a whole stack of t-shirts that are like division champ t-shirts. And he's like, I want to get them out of my closet. I don't want these anymore. That's what he's known for at this point.

01:19:51 Speaker_05
Because if they lose in the playoffs, if they lose in the playoff this year to the Chiefs, What do you think if you're a Bills fan? Like, this Chiefs team sucks. We can't even beat this one? It's a big, big playoff year.

01:20:01 Speaker_07
That's why it'll be the Steelers that they lose to. It might be. I know you're big on the Steelers right now. I am. I am stunned that the Steelers have not gotten more credit this year. I don't get it. I don't know what else they have to do.

01:20:11 Speaker_03
I'm holding my breath a little bit. They have a really tough— Craig's a Steelers fan, so he's being super careful. This is a tough four-game stretch they're heading into, and it's been pretty easy the last four weeks.

01:20:18 Speaker_03
Now they're Eagles, Chiefs, Bengals. Bengals? No. Eagles, Chiefs, Bengals. It's a tough stretch for them.

01:20:24 Speaker_07
But they're playing Christmas night, too.

01:20:26 Speaker_03
Yeah.

01:20:27 Speaker_07
The Josh thing, the way you laid it out, really makes me think of Peyton Manning, first half of the 2000s, where he had reached this point where he was the best regular season quarterback.

01:20:37 Speaker_07
He was the guy you would take first in fantasy, all that stuff. But you never felt like he was actually gonna win. And then they end up winning in 06, partly because the Pats choked away a 21-3 halftime lead.

01:20:48 Speaker_05
In the dome. Marlon Jackson's interception sealed it, and it was like, holy shit. They beat Brady. And this is my test for the Chiefs right now.

01:20:56 Speaker_05
So we're picking away at all of them, and they barely win, and all their numbers are terrible, and the offense looks legitimately bad except for one drive every game. Let's say they get the one seed. They get the buy.

01:21:06 Speaker_05
The division run, you're watching on your couch, and the Chiefs lose to Pittsburgh or Baltimore or Houston or something like that. Are you surprised? Because I'm shocked.

01:21:18 Speaker_05
I'll fall off my chair if they lose in the division run, even as bad as they've been. That's my respect for them. I agree completely.

01:21:24 Speaker_03
It's every week. I'd be shocked if the Chiefs lost. I was like, oh, you know, if the Bills play the Chiefs again in the playoffs, this is what we see every year. The Bills beat Mahomes in the regular season, Mahomes beats Allen in the playoffs.

01:21:36 Speaker_03
It's the same thing every single year.

01:21:37 Speaker_07
The problem for the Chiefs is sometimes you can pass the point of no return with weapons. And I said this last time in the pod, like, This did happen to Brady a couple of times where, like, 06, he was awesome. And we just had nobody.

01:21:51 Speaker_07
We had Lawrence Maroney as starting running back, and Rashae Caldwell, and Jabbar Gaffney, and Ben Watson. It was like, we just didn't have enough weapons. When we needed third downs, there was that one guy to get open.

01:22:01 Speaker_07
There was that awesome running back. I don't think the Chiefs' weapons are that bad, but there's been some Brady seasons where he was better than the team. And I wonder with Mahomes' shot, I thought he took a lot of hits on Sunday night.

01:22:13 Speaker_03
It's so weird. I feel like last year was the year the Chiefs were supposed to lose, and then the criticisms would come. What did they go, 11-6? And it was like, yeah, you know, this is what we were saying. You can't do this again. Not with these weapons.

01:22:23 Speaker_05
Yeah, the Raiders killed them on Christmas. Yes, it was like a super war.

01:22:26 Speaker_07
Should they have lost, and Allen missed that one throw to Diggs. There was one other play. Like, if you really watch that game closely, it was kind of amazing the Bills didn't win that game.

01:22:35 Speaker_03
Yeah, I don't think anybody knows what to do now. Now that they come out of this weird 11-6 year where they shouldn't have won the Super Bowl, but they did, and now they're 12-1 and they've won 16 straight games that were one score.

01:22:44 Speaker_03
It's the most improbable run. I mean, can you think of anything like this in the last 20, 30 years in the NFL?

01:22:50 Speaker_07
Now, there were some weird Patriot years wondering like how we were doing it week after week. But this is different because they're almost adding this degree of difficulty to the wins. And I'm not a lucky person with football.

01:23:03 Speaker_07
I never really bought into that because clearly they're good. Clearly, like the plays that he was making yesterday, especially in the last drive, that third and 15 was crazy. Right? The third and seven, you know he's going to get it.

01:23:16 Speaker_07
So that's its own skill. I thought what would concern me if I was them was, was, uh, the charges I thought were really physical with them in the second half in a way that I don't remember seeing with the chiefs.

01:23:28 Speaker_07
But you always felt like the chiefs were going to lose. It was cause they, you know, they dropped the key third down pass or something. I thought the chargers were like pushing them back.

01:23:36 Speaker_05
Without their best running back.

01:23:38 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:23:38 Speaker_05
Yeah, I mean, the Chargers are built like Michigan.

01:23:39 Speaker_07
And without their best receiver.

01:23:41 Speaker_05
No, definitely. I think the Chargers are going to win a playoff game. I like them still. I'm not jumping ship on the Chargers. Yeah. Without the best receiver, without the best running back, they play great defense.

01:23:48 Speaker_07
So there'll be a six seed, right? There'll be whatever behind Baltimore and Pittsburgh. So six seed would put them probably against either Buffalo or Pittsburgh.

01:23:57 Speaker_05
Yeah. And I don't like that match. I don't like the Chargers. But the distinction, I think, with the Chiefs' weapons, it's like, I think there's having players that are just kind of average.

01:24:06 Speaker_05
But then there's having players who are just kind of average the way they're playing, who are made guys. Like John Dray Hopkins and Kelsey, even Juju, those are guys who've been around, who've been in playoff games, who've won.

01:24:17 Speaker_05
Those are the guys who are like, oh shit, we turned on the division around. Kelsey had nine catches and two touchdowns. They've done it. It's not average players who just suck and have never done it. These guys are all a friend of ours.

01:24:29 Speaker_05
I mean, they can turn it on. That's why they go in.

01:24:31 Speaker_07
That's why I'm so cautious with the Chiefs, because of the Kelsey keeping him in the garage with the tarp on thing.

01:24:37 Speaker_05
Yeah.

01:24:37 Speaker_07
Like, they're just clearly doing that. Yeah, we didn't see him for two hours in the game yesterday. You know, in fantasy, like, people are still paying for him in fantasy.

01:24:46 Speaker_03
Yeah, he was still fringed first guy who went off the board in drafts. It was like him and Laporta.

01:24:50 Speaker_07
But then you watch Bowers, although Tampo was able to take him out a little yesterday. Bowers is just like Gronk crossed with Kelsey, crossed with like a sports movie tight end. He's open all the time. He's just crushing everybody.

01:25:03 Speaker_07
And Kelsey could probably do that in January in round two, but I don't think they're using that skill now. So, I don't know. If I had to rank them, I honestly think Pittsburgh's the safest bet out of the three.

01:25:16 Speaker_05
Because of the defense. Really? More than Buffalo?

01:25:18 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:25:19 Speaker_05
Yeah, okay.

01:25:20 Speaker_07
I think they could beat Buffalo in Buffalo because they can get some explosive plays, but I think Buffalo has a better chance of beating KC.

01:25:26 Speaker_07
Because the thing with KC that I can't wrap my— I feel like if you can get 24 and up on them, points-wise, you're probably beating them. Right? Buffalo beat them 30-21.

01:25:36 Speaker_07
But Pittsburgh's more likely to play the 18-16, 19-16 type Kansas City game, which is better for KC. So I do feel like there's some rock, paper, scissors.

01:25:46 Speaker_03
Yeah. I think Arthur Smith and Russ are really starting to work well, especially last week without Pickens, which I do think Tomlin held Pickens. I think Pickens could have played in that game. And I think they knew they had this gauntlet coming up.

01:25:56 Speaker_03
They held him against the Browns.

01:25:57 Speaker_07
I 100% agree.

01:25:58 Speaker_03
They were at home. I think that was a very smart move by Tomlin.

01:26:00 Speaker_07
They knew they could beat Jameis.

01:26:01 Speaker_03
There were more open guys in that game than there have been all season for Pittsburgh, so I do think Arthur Smith and Russ are really starting to gel. I just worry that in January, they're in Buffalo, they need to score 35 to beat the Bills.

01:26:12 Speaker_03
They're doing too high, they're taking off all the top end stuff for Russ. you really gotta rely on, like, Najee Harris having a good game running the ball, and then if it's not Pickens, it gets real thin real quick. I'm a little worried.

01:26:23 Speaker_03
I almost wonder if, like, they could muck it up with the Chiefs and win a game like 1917. That's where I feel it.

01:26:29 Speaker_07
Yeah, but Kyle knows. The way to beat the Bills is what the Rams did yesterday. You're just, five yard run, four yard run, seven yard run, seven yard pass, three yard run, five yard— You're just chippin' away, chippin' away, chippin' away.

01:26:43 Speaker_05
Block a punt, you get this big play. Yeah, big defensive play. And then, Jesus Christ, Nakua and Cooper were just doing anything they wanted.

01:26:49 Speaker_03
It looked bad. See, that's the thing. I mean, Stafford, Nakua, and Pukar is like the highest degree of difficulty offense in the league. Like, it is so hard, but they do it because they're so good. And I'm like, I don't, I will worry a little bit.

01:26:58 Speaker_07
But what did they run for? The running game, I thought, was the most interesting part of that. Because Buffalo, I wouldn't say they're like a giant defense. No, not really. Feels like you can push them backwards.

01:27:09 Speaker_05
They thought that, okay, so Matt Milano's back now. Like, he was the heart and soul of their defense. He's back. They're going to stop it. And Terrell Bernard's amazing in the middle.

01:27:16 Speaker_05
But like, they did this Blake Corham thing that we haven't seen a lot of them this year. And then obviously Kyron. My, I have a little bit of a spicy take on the Bills-Rams thing is, I actually think that loss was good for the Bills.

01:27:27 Speaker_05
And I'll tell you why. Like, everybody was just on their nuts across the whole country because they did a lateral play and they won in the snow and they're the best team ever. They go across the country, they get their ass whipped a little bit.

01:27:37 Speaker_05
Now they play the Lions, which is one of the biggest games of the regular season. I think they need to have their shit humbled a little bit. Just a little bit. They were such a darling for about three or four days, and then they weren't that good.

01:27:47 Speaker_05
And I think that, get that loss out of the way now, maybe, and have a little bit of a wake-up call, I actually was not shocked that they lost that game, because McVay is amazing, and when Kupp and Nakua are out there for the Rams this year, the Rams are 6-2.

01:27:59 Speaker_05
Like, they're a very, very good team, and their defense is like, super young. Super doesn't give a crap. I'll hit Josh Allen late, talk shit to him, don't care.

01:28:06 Speaker_05
Like, the Rams are, if I had to pick a team that, holy shit, a team that's in the Super Bowl, I'd pick the Rams as like the holy shit team.

01:28:12 Speaker_07
Your holy shit team?

01:28:13 Speaker_05
My holy shit team is the Rams. Like, that is a dark horse, Cinderella, all that.

01:28:17 Speaker_05
Like, they have the quarterback, I think they have the best coach in football, and they have this crazy young defense who doesn't know that they're not supposed to be that good yet. They're my holy shit Super Bowl team.

01:28:27 Speaker_07
I think the holy shit team has to be AFC. Okay. Just for me. But I like that pick.

01:28:32 Speaker_05
But I think... Like the Chargers would be a whole issue.

01:28:34 Speaker_07
I just think that Detroit, Philly talent pedigree... That's good. Especially if you have to go into Detroit, round two, round three, and try to take those guys. Whereas the AFC, I don't really love any team. I feel the best about Pittsburgh.

01:28:47 Speaker_07
I certainly wouldn't feel awesome about Russell Wilson winning three straight playoff games. Yeah, and if this is the year to go against the KC. My holy shit playoff team would actually be the Chargers. I'm with you on that. They can block.

01:29:02 Speaker_07
and they can chase the passer. And once we get into January, if you can just do those two things, make a couple plays, not turn the ball over and win a couple ugly games, that's what the Chiefs did last year. I was really impressed by them yesterday.

01:29:15 Speaker_07
I think they're- I thought they really handled the Chiefs defensive line. I was surprised. And like Herbert misses wide open touchdown, right? He missed another guy like 35 yards down the field.

01:29:28 Speaker_07
Their running backs are among the worst in the league without Dobbins. Gus Edwards and Vidal, like, come on.

01:29:34 Speaker_03
They're overachieving this year. Like, it's impressive already what Harbaugh's done year one. This was supposed to be kind of like, all right, we'll get our linemen, we build from the inside out, see what we got. We'll see what we have in Ladd McConkie.

01:29:43 Speaker_03
He's already one of the better rookie wide receivers in the league. You know what's funny? We talk about football all the time.

01:29:51 Speaker_07
And we always look for these angles on what makes the team special, who's going to be the sleeper. This was the first year where I was like, all I care about are coaches and QBs. I did all my over-unders and I was like,

01:30:04 Speaker_07
If you have a coach or a QB, I'm not even worried that the Chargers don't have receivers. I'm going over, I'm picking them to make the playoffs. They have Harbaugh and Herbert. That should be enough.

01:30:14 Speaker_07
Whereas like flip side, I don't know, Vegas, I don't understand their quarterback situation at all. I don't know what we're getting into. I'm out. And I wonder sometimes, is football just that simple?

01:30:24 Speaker_07
Is it all about the QB and the coach and the rest of it is like periphery?

01:30:28 Speaker_03
Yeah, in retrospect, looking at Rogers and Sala, it's like, I, you know, I like Robert Sala. Were you big on them, Craig? Yeah, I think that would put it away a little bit, right?

01:30:36 Speaker_07
That was my big mistake. I had the Jets over Buffalo in the division. That was my biggest regret. But Rogers is washed. Like he's, you know, if you knew he was gonna be the 41-year-old washed Rogers, I wouldn't have picked that.

01:30:47 Speaker_03
I know. My big thing in fantasy this year was like, try to eliminate, uh, as much randomness as you can, like only bet on things that you can depend on, that you know are gonna happen.

01:30:55 Speaker_03
And then I just was completely blind to the Jets, like a 40-year-old quarterback coming off a torn Achilles. My biggest miss.

01:31:00 Speaker_07
I got so deceived by all the Buffalo, dead cap space stuff and transition year. I just, they snookered me. I think they snookered themselves. I don't even know if they expected this.

01:31:11 Speaker_05
I really do think it was, all right, this will be a year and we'll lose in the wild card or whatever, but just Allen's been that good and the defense has been that good. Um, can I give you like a surprise disgruntled team right now?

01:31:22 Speaker_06
Yeah.

01:31:23 Speaker_05
I'm kind of with you. Like I have a couple of friends. And they're Philly guys. And they're beside themselves right now. They hate this team. They're like, we're gonna lose. We're gonna go one and done. They're panicking.

01:31:34 Speaker_07
But like six days ago, everybody was thinking Detroit's defense is so banged up. Philly, the season parted for Philly. That's how I was feeling.

01:31:41 Speaker_05
The Eagles have won nine in a row. And they're like, nope. Hertz doesn't have it. Their kicker keeps missing. That freaks people out. He can't make one from 50 plus. He hasn't made one all year.

01:31:51 Speaker_05
After this game, this last game, the problem is, all right, they barely beat the Panthers. And people have to update their expectations of the Panthers. The Panthers aren't the Panthers of September. They're actually kind of good.

01:32:01 Speaker_07
They're frisky.

01:32:01 Speaker_05
Like, they almost beat the Chiefs.

01:32:03 Speaker_07
They're exactly frisky. They had a 98-yard drive, almost, to win a game with three minutes left.

01:32:09 Speaker_03
I mean, Bryce Young won that game. Leggett dropped it. I know.

01:32:12 Speaker_05
And so Eagles fans are like, we suck. Like, first of all, the Panthers are pretty good. But then right after the game, A.J. Brown, after a win, the ninth in a row, they're like, A.J., what do you think you need to work on? He's like, passing.

01:32:22 Speaker_05
You gotta get better at passing. Jesus AJ you won nine in a row like there's some issues with hurts and I think there's Eagles fans still don't totally believe in him Just my friends.

01:32:32 Speaker_05
I think he's a really good player, but there's my friends and I think I don't really believe in Sirianni either, right? Definitely coach quarterback. And also I think AJ Brown is like I'm tired of this Saquon shit.

01:32:42 Speaker_05
Like, we pass the ball the least in the whole team. They're ranked last in the league in pass attempts. They run it. They have an MVP running back. I don't know if he's liking that either. This reminds me of, I was talking to an MVP.

01:32:52 Speaker_05
There's nine in a row they've won, and they're like, they're pissed.

01:32:55 Speaker_03
Are they waiting for the collapse? Because remember, the Eagles were like 10-1 last year, but it was the weirdest Super Bowl hangover where everybody was miserable, but they were 10-1? No, they're supposed to be good. Their defense is awesome.

01:33:03 Speaker_03
It's amazing. They retooled immediately.

01:33:04 Speaker_07
This is a theory I heard about the Nuggets. you made me think of about like AJ Brown being pissed. that it was like, why isn't Jamal Murray playing better? It's like, because Jokic does everything.

01:33:15 Speaker_07
This person I know was saying how NBA, it was just a theory. It's like, those guys are tired of just being like Jokic's towel boys and everything's Jokic, Jokic, Jokic. Oh, what a miracle it must be to play with Jokic. Oh, he gets all the stats.

01:33:32 Speaker_07
And like Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr. is like, where's mine? I want you too. Because they already won a title.

01:33:38 Speaker_05
So A.J. Brown's like, enough with the backwards hurdle, we get it. Enough with the sequence shit. Enough with the tush push.

01:33:42 Speaker_03
I don't know. It's probably easier when the star is the quarterback. When it's the running back, it probably rubs A.J. Brown the wrong way. He's like, I'm just as good as that guy. Look, I can't play quarterback, but it's the running back? Really?

01:33:52 Speaker_05
It's true.

01:33:52 Speaker_07
I mean, counter? Is there a wide receiver who's gruntled?

01:33:56 Speaker_05
I don't know.

01:33:57 Speaker_07
We have a lot of disgruntled receivers. Do we have gruntled receivers?

01:34:01 Speaker_05
Jefferson always seems pretty gruntled. Even when he wasn't putting up numbers. Yeah, he seemed happy for Addison. Huge contract. Huge. Plays indoors. Like, everybody loves him. I think Jefferson's gruntled.

01:34:16 Speaker_07
This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. As a small business owner, every new hire added to your team needs to make an immediate impact. Think of CJ Stroud in his rookie year, how he transformed the Texans.

01:34:27 Speaker_07
With limited hiring resources, you don't have the luxury of getting it wrong. You need to feel confident that your candidate is going to perform when the game is on the line. With LinkedIn jobs, you can.

01:34:36 Speaker_07
As the world's largest professional network, LinkedIn gives you access to more than a billion professionals with the unique skills and experience you need.

01:34:43 Speaker_07
Chances are your next standout star is one of them, a qualified candidate ready to put in the work. that makes an immediate impact on your business. On LinkedIn, 86% of small businesses get a qualified candidate within 24 hours.

01:34:57 Speaker_07
So hire professionals like a professional on LinkedIn. Tire the right person for your role and post your job for free. Go to LinkedIn.com slash Simmons. That's LinkedIn.com slash Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions. Apply.

01:35:12 Speaker_07
This episode is brought to you by Workday. Get the whole band together with Workday and pair finance and HR on one platform for an epic performance.

01:35:19 Speaker_07
With Workday AI at the core, you'll make confident decisions faster than ever, and you'll drive flawless business and finance operations with an agile platform that constantly evolves to future-proof your organization.

01:35:31 Speaker_07
Be a finance and HR rockstar with Workday. Visit Workday.com to learn more. Do you buy Minnesota yet?

01:35:41 Speaker_07
I know that's been a, for three months, all of us who do podcasts and content, we're all just assuming this was your classic biking season where the stats say they should have been nine and eight and they went 14 to three.

01:35:53 Speaker_05
No, they went every week. Let's have a Sam Donald conversation. I, I, it's nuts. So my background in Sam Darnold is, okay, was supposed to be the number one overall pick, fell a little bit, Baker rises up and steal it.

01:36:04 Speaker_05
From that point, every single coach slash guru, all the McVeighs and Shanahan's and like Jordan Palmer types, they all swear that Sam's the man. Oh, Darnold's incredible. Darnold's got it.

01:36:16 Speaker_05
And as a fan, you're like, he mostly sucks every time we see him. It just feels like when somebody keeps recommending this show, you got to watch this show. It's so good. It's so good. And you're like, it's not that good.

01:36:24 Speaker_05
They're like, watch another episode. I promise.

01:36:26 Speaker_03
Watch another episode. That was Schitt's Creek for me.

01:36:28 Speaker_05
Yeah, keep watching.

01:36:29 Speaker_03
I mean, dude, I'm on three seasons in. I don't like the show. It's a sitcom.

01:36:32 Speaker_05
The show is finally amazing. And all those coaches were like, he's amazing. And yet, They may just cut Baveland this year.

01:36:39 Speaker_03
I was going to ask. I don't know. What do they have to do in the playoffs where it becomes a problem for the Minnesota front office thinking, well, now what?

01:36:46 Speaker_07
I said to Sal. What happens now? I said to Sal on Sunday's pod, I don't know how they let him go at this point. Like when you have a quarterback that you're built, your team's built around these two awesome receivers that you have, right?

01:36:58 Speaker_07
You have a quarterback who's clearly clicking with them in a real way, who's made big plays over and over again down the stretch. why do I have to start J.J. McCarthy next year? Why can't I just trade J.J. McCarthy?

01:37:10 Speaker_07
He's the eighth, he was seventh or eighth pick, what was he, seventh? Seventh pick.

01:37:14 Speaker_05
I don't know where he was, top 10.

01:37:15 Speaker_07
I know he's coming off a torn ACL.

01:37:17 Speaker_05
Yeah, but you loved him.

01:37:19 Speaker_07
But you think like, I'm trading him for a high second and I get to pay Sam Darnold. Sal and I went through all the teams that need quarterbacks. There's probably four legitimate plus maybe Seattle if they don't pay Geno, maybe Purdy. Just six total.

01:37:34 Speaker_07
I just think if I'm Vegas, I'm paying them.

01:37:37 Speaker_03
They're like the anti-chiefs because no matter how bad the chiefs look, I think to myself, I'm still going to bet on my homes. No matter how good the Vikings look. It doesn't matter how good the Vikings look.

01:37:45 Speaker_03
I'm like, in the playoffs, I'm going to bet against them.

01:37:47 Speaker_07
Yeah, we did Million Dollar Picks Thursday and the house was like imploring me to put the Vikings in a parlay. And I was just like, it looks too easy. Something's wrong. I don't know. It makes me nervous. Nobody likes cousins. And we ended up doing it.

01:38:00 Speaker_07
And Falcon scored 7-0 and I'm texting House like, motherfucker, why did I listen to you, you fucking dick.

01:38:06 Speaker_05
They were good early. Listen, same organization, Vikings, a few years back. They're in the NFC title game. Their quarterback is Case Keenum. Right. Killing it. Making miracles, that's a fun day. He's like, oh my god, Keenum. Yeah. Moved on. Went to Cousins.

01:38:18 Speaker_05
It was the right move.

01:38:19 Speaker_07
Yeah, but here's the difference with Darnold. If you're just talking about what If I have a franchise quarterback, what do I want? Do I want size? Well, he has that escapability.

01:38:31 Speaker_07
He has that cannon arm, has that... Is he pretty good down the stretch or when you need him to make some plays? He's done that all year.

01:38:39 Speaker_05
Also, he doesn't say shit. He's like a model citizen, great reputation.

01:38:42 Speaker_07
Teammates like him. I don't know what he's missing. I watch quarterbacks for... 10 to 11 hours every Sunday. And most of them are bad. And he's actually pretty good.

01:38:53 Speaker_05
The take is very insulting to him. Here's the take. Okay. You have Jefferson and Addison and Aaron Jones and Hawkinson and KOC is your coach. Of course you're succeeding. Right. It's the Brock Purdy. Put somebody in there. It's the Brock Purdy.

01:39:08 Speaker_03
And you know how it's going to go, because when he leaves and signs a four-year, 160 million Daniel Jones contract somewhere else, he's not going to be good, because it's the Kevin O'Connell system of making Josh Dobbs good for three weeks.

01:39:18 Speaker_03
And it seems like Kevin O'Connell is like the guru quarterback whisperer now. And I just know Darnold is going to go sign a deal with, like, God forbid, the Giants or something and be terrible. It's going to happen. And we've seen—Cousins went 11-1.

01:39:29 Speaker_05
as the Vikings quarterback. And they won every, and they got to the play, and they lost to Daniel Jones. So that's part of the reason why everyone's like, I don't know, Darnold is, I feel like we've seen this shit before.

01:39:38 Speaker_05
That's why you're saying no matter how much they win, you don't believe in them. Because we could look up and they lose in the wild card round. Like, what was all that for?

01:39:43 Speaker_07
But we said this about Baker last year, and then they signed him, and he's been good this year. That's true. The best thing with Darnold is how young he is. What is he like? He's very young. 27, right? If I were them, I would try to sign him for like,

01:40:00 Speaker_07
100 for four years, something like that, try to get him like 25 a year, and then try to trade J.J. McCarthy. But supposedly he hurt his ACL again, so maybe he doesn't even have the same. It's just that to me, that feels like the disaster.

01:40:13 Speaker_07
It's like, we had this guy. Now we let him go because J.J. 's ready. And then what if J.J. 's not good? And those receivers are like, what the fuck?

01:40:21 Speaker_05
Donald had 40 touchdowns.

01:40:23 Speaker_03
Imagine the other way though. They trade their top 10 pick, J.J. McCarthy, who goes off and has a great career. And then next year, Sam Donald turns back into a pumpkin and it's like one of the worst front office moves of all time.

01:40:33 Speaker_05
Yeah. To your point though, let's say the Vikings are like, we love Sam, but we have a very bright future for J.J. We want to be in bench. What is the line that the Vikings get to where they're like, well, we're in the Super Bowl.

01:40:43 Speaker_05
We can't get rid of Sam Darnold now. Do they have to win it? I think if you get, I think you have to get to the Super Bowl. Because already, Case Keenum was in the title game with them. They've already been that a few years ago.

01:40:53 Speaker_05
I think if he gets to the Super Bowl, I guess you're coming back.

01:40:55 Speaker_07
You know, as a fan, I was in a situation once with a guy by the name of Tom Brady in 2001. Bledsoe gets hurt. Brady keeps his job and we're kind of like, Is he gonna be the starter? And we'll be like, oh, we'll see what happens.

01:41:08 Speaker_07
And all of a sudden, he won the Super Bowl.

01:41:10 Speaker_03
And Drew Boots is getting traded. The first Tom Brady, Sam Darnold comp. Yeah. I just, you never know.

01:41:14 Speaker_07
I like it, though. I like it. The thing is, Detroit's defense mess, and I don't see how it really gets better, right? So at least there's a little bit of a hole there. Philly has all the chemistry stuff. Green Bay, I'm not sure I trust Jordan Love.

01:41:29 Speaker_07
And just in general, I wouldn't pencil him in. Like, Minnesota can play with all of these teams.

01:41:34 Speaker_05
Those three teams in the North, They're 28 and 3 outside of the North. They beat everybody. Those teams are all really good.

01:41:40 Speaker_07
They might be the 3 best teams in the league.

01:41:42 Speaker_05
They're up there. I think they're all top 5 teams, who knows. They're 28 and 3 when they're not playing each other. So they kick the shit out of everybody. I think the Lions' defense reputation is down right now because of what we just saw.

01:41:52 Speaker_05
I think they'll be better. I think they'll be back. I still think they're going to win the Super Bowl. I still think it's the Lions.

01:41:56 Speaker_07
I would at gunpoint pick them as well, but I don't feel great about it.

01:41:59 Speaker_05
Lions over Pittsburgh, you think, maybe? Or Chiefs?

01:42:02 Speaker_07
No, I would still, life depends on it. I'm still doing Lions, KC. But I just think right now, mid-December. Is it mid-December? It is.

01:42:11 Speaker_06
Well, yeah.

01:42:12 Speaker_07
I think Pittsburgh is the most complete all-around team right now. I don't know what that's going to mean.

01:42:16 Speaker_05
Where are you at with Russ? Isn't this weird for you to be saying that?

01:42:19 Speaker_07
Every fucking week, Russ makes three 40-yard plays or gets a pass interference. There's a play that moves the ball 35 to 50 yards, three times a game with him. And it happens every single week. And at some point, that's what they do.

01:42:32 Speaker_07
Where it's like, the Chiefs get none of those plays. The Chiefs had one 30-yard play to Hopkins, and he dropped it, and it seemed like a miracle that they almost completed it.

01:42:41 Speaker_03
Russ is cocky right now. He's doing this like, you know, throw a touchdown, he gets down on one knee and points to the side. Has he always done that? Or is that a new move he unveiled?

01:42:50 Speaker_07
He does a lot of running over to the sideline and barking at the OC and shit like that.

01:42:55 Speaker_05
Have you done the Russ pop culture comp, what this is? Because, like, I was doing it the other day with Peter. I think it's- it's- it's Travolta. And- The comeback.

01:43:08 Speaker_05
Seattle was all of the 70s and 80s, and he's a superstar, he's the coolest rock star ever. Denver was, look who's talking, it's pathetic. And then, like, four and two, Mike Tomlin put him in, and it was just Pulp Fiction.

01:43:19 Speaker_05
And, like, he's, like, the coolest guy ever now and can't miss. It's an amazing- I would go Lady Gaga. You go- you go Lady Gaga. What? Yeah. Go on. Really strong start.

01:43:28 Speaker_07
Uh-huh. considered a diva pretty early on, did some good stuff, faded a little bit, and then a star is born was her Pittsburgh.

01:43:37 Speaker_05
That's big. That's the four and two Pittsburgh.

01:43:39 Speaker_07
But then is it going to end with Joker 2?

01:43:41 Speaker_05
That would be a bummer. Oh, yeah. Craig, you should bring the house down next year.

01:43:45 Speaker_07
But I mean, you root for Russ every week. Yeah. He's surprisingly good. There's just no other way to say it. He's been doing this now for two and a half months.

01:43:52 Speaker_03
I'm enjoying it one week at a time. He makes plays over and over and over again. I'm not looking ahead. I'm not looking into the future. I'm just every week, I'm having a good time.

01:43:59 Speaker_05
I always would think that Tomlin wouldn't be here for the Russ theatrics that we used to see. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that.

01:44:08 Speaker_05
Tomlin's good at that.

01:44:09 Speaker_07
Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that.

01:44:10 Speaker_05
Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that.

01:44:13 Speaker_07
Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that.

01:44:18 Speaker_05
Tomlin's good at that.

01:44:18 Speaker_07
Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that. Tomlin's good at that He lined up like a 54-yarder yesterday.

01:44:28 Speaker_03
He's making that. He's been that guy. He's been the best offensive player in the Steelers for the last five years. I think he leads the league in points.

01:44:32 Speaker_07
Tomlin, Boswell, like, I can't find the holes. It's really like, who's gonna be that second receiver on third and nine? But Mike Williams had a couple good plays yesterday.

01:44:41 Speaker_05
Yeah. And Frymouth is, like, they're really good. They're an amazing team. It's like, the rusting, you see comebacks, like, they suck. You never see when someone's a superstar, then sucks, and then is a superstar again.

01:44:54 Speaker_05
The only ones I can think of are Kurt Warner, who went St.

01:44:57 Speaker_05
Louis, and then the Giants, who was just weird, and then Arizona to the Super Bowl again, and then even a slightly less version of that, Carson Palmer was with the Bengals, he was with the Raiders, and I don't even remember that, and then he was with Arizona and was also in a title game, but the good shit and then good again is really hard to block.

01:45:15 Speaker_07
It especially happens with quarterbacks, because it feels like the wrong offensive line the wrong coach, the wrong team, and they could just get the shit kicked out of them for two years and just completely lose their confidence, right?

01:45:25 Speaker_03
It's funny, Russ has never been paid the right amount based on what his talent is at the moment. Like when he was on Seattle, when he first got drafted, he kind of like started that new rookie quarterback model thing.

01:45:35 Speaker_03
He was making like 700 grand a year and leading them to Super Bowls. Then the Denver thing happens and he's making $43 million a year and he's terrible. And now he's a great again on Pittsburgh making $1 million a year.

01:45:45 Speaker_03
I know Denver's still paying him, but... And then he'll probably, I think the plan is, and I think this is what the Steelers envisioned the whole time, I think they are going to definitely re-sign Russ.

01:45:55 Speaker_07
No question. They just don't want to pay more than 10 to 12, I'm guessing. They have a whole thing.

01:46:02 Speaker_05
We also might get Pittsburgh-Denver in the playoffs. That'd be pretty fun.

01:46:04 Speaker_07
You talked about the comeback, though, with him and how unusual that is. The other thing that's unusual for me, I always feel like quarterbacks hit that point of no return.

01:46:13 Speaker_07
It just doesn't seem like they want to get hit anymore, which Rogers was clearly the last seven, eight weeks. He's like, that guy doesn't want to get hit anymore. Roger Wilson last year to me just seemed like he didn't want to get hit anymore.

01:46:23 Speaker_07
That's why when he's a free agent this, this summer, I was just like, well, who cares? The guy doesn't, you know, he's made enough money and won a Superbowl. He doesn't want it anymore. I know. But it seems like he's okay with getting hit again.

01:46:36 Speaker_07
So I don't know whether Tomlin, I just think Tomlin, Tomlin and Reed to me levitate over everybody else.

01:46:41 Speaker_05
Coaches and quarterbacks. When we do playoff picks to start the season, about four years ago I learned this. I always pick Pittsburgh no matter what. Picked them this year to make the playoffs. And everyone's like, you're an idiot.

01:46:50 Speaker_05
They have no quarterback. I'm like, I know, but just always pick Pittsburgh. They get in the playoffs, always. And I pick McVay now too every year, the Rams. That was another one.

01:46:58 Speaker_07
That was another guy with the futures. I just did over on the Rams. I get that they only have seven players, but as long as they have the QB and two receivers, they can move the ball.

01:47:08 Speaker_03
Yeah, we always joke that McVay is the chef on Chopped. He's making bolognese out of mayonnaise.

01:47:14 Speaker_07
Who's your holy shit team? I have the Chargers, Kyle.

01:47:18 Speaker_05
I have, who did I say? The Rams.

01:47:20 Speaker_03
You said the Rams.

01:47:21 Speaker_05
Holy shit, this team is in the Super Bowl.

01:47:23 Speaker_03
Can I have the, holy shit, this team, there's no way this team is going to make the Super Bowl? No, that's not the question. You hate the Texans, right?

01:47:29 Speaker_05
I hate the Texans. Nah, they're not good. The Texans are definitely going to play a Saturday playoff game like they always do. and it'll be like one o'clock and it'll just be boring.

01:47:36 Speaker_07
Everyone's gonna pick whoever the other team is.

01:47:37 Speaker_05
It's probably gonna be the Chargers.

01:47:38 Speaker_07
It's just gonna be like that Browns game last year.

01:47:40 Speaker_03
Everyone's just like, Blacko. Yeah, Slovak I think is super overrated. I think Stroud's, in his own head, big brothering every quarterback at midfield and it's completely failed on him.

01:47:48 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:47:48 Speaker_05
Stroud's had a tough second half of the season.

01:47:50 Speaker_03
He's had a great guy, I think.

01:47:51 Speaker_07
The Ringer fantasy show hates Stroud big brothering.

01:47:55 Speaker_05
One of the most— The Caleb moment?

01:47:57 Speaker_03
The Caleb moment. He's done it multiple times. Yeah. He did it with Drake May too. Yeah, three straight weeks after the Caleb thing and then he finally got off of it. I missed the Drake Mayweather. Yeah, he's been terrible.

01:48:08 Speaker_07
He's weighing in with his big picture thoughts on everyone he plays against, and it's like, dude, you're in your second year. Settle down.

01:48:14 Speaker_03
Yeah. My, I might go with the Chargers as well, probably, I would say. Just because of their ability to like play cold weather. Herbert's so good. The only thing with Herbert is I'm worried that he's gonna get hurt sometimes.

01:48:26 Speaker_03
Herbert is almost too good of a player. I kind of, I think he's kind of like the Puka Nakua of quarterbacks where I'm like, you actually play the game with too much honor. You don't take, you don't go out of bounds ever.

01:48:37 Speaker_03
If there's a throw and Herbert needs to make it, he knows he's gonna get drilled, like he will get drilled to make the throw. hit on him in that Chiefs game. That was a bad hit. But he had to step in to make the throw. So I worry about that.

01:48:47 Speaker_07
They're 8-5, Baltimore's 8-5, Denver's 8-5 for the 5-6-7. So the key for the Chargers would have to be to somehow get that 5 seed. And try to play Houston. But I don't know how realistic that is with their schedule.

01:49:02 Speaker_07
But if they can somehow get, what do they have left?

01:49:05 Speaker_05
That Houston's just dog shit on the server.

01:49:07 Speaker_07
Tampa Denver home.

01:49:08 Speaker_05
Oh, and that was third and ten in Houston. Great. Yeah, a lot of third and ten.

01:49:11 Speaker_07
Tampa Denver at home for the Chargers, then at-pats home Vegas. Like, they could sweep that.

01:49:16 Speaker_05
Definitely.

01:49:16 Speaker_07
And Baltimore, I think, is going to have a lot of trouble sweeping because they had that weird Christmas situation.

01:49:22 Speaker_05
Isn't it crazy? We've talked to playoffs this long. We haven't even mentioned the Ravens. I know, but what are they going to do when they get there? Like, I don't have them in the Superbowl. Does anybody that their stocks?

01:49:32 Speaker_07
It's funny that people get mad about the January Lamar thing. It's like, Okay, when is it not gonna happen? It's just until he doesn't do the January Lamar thing, that's the way it is. The Raven fans are very touchy about it.

01:49:45 Speaker_05
Lamar media is weird. Tua media is the worst though.

01:49:48 Speaker_07
The Tua fan base. The Tua people who think he was good yesterday, he was 23 for 37, no picks. It's like, all right, I watched the game. He had 10 terrible throws, like stop. I don't trust Tua.

01:50:00 Speaker_05
Dolphins fans are frosty for sure.

01:50:02 Speaker_03
No, when I think of a Tua play in my head, it's Tyreek Hill turning around to catch an underthrown defense. Who's your fantasy MVP this year, Craig? Fantasy MVP? We all overthought Saquon so much.

01:50:17 Speaker_03
Him going in the second, and Derrick Henry, the two of them. Both of them going in the second round. Everybody was afraid of the veteran on the new team thing.

01:50:23 Speaker_07
Now it's going to go the other way. Everyone's going to overvalue it in next year's draft.

01:50:27 Speaker_05
The new running back guy. It's also one of the most unusual fantasy seasons in history because of what happened with McCaffrey. That was so strange.

01:50:33 Speaker_07
And Bruce Hall, who just died of natural causes.

01:50:36 Speaker_03
Also, just in general with fantasy, this is the healthiest running back season outside of McCaffrey, which, that happened before the season, kind of, in-season injuries for running backs, this has been the healthiest season in forever, and I think there's definitely, you know, it was always get a wide receiver in the first round for the last five years.

01:50:51 Speaker_03
Next year, it's going to swing way back, everyone's going to be back in on getting all these running backs in the first round, and it will probably regress back to the mean and, like, guys will start getting hurt again.

01:50:58 Speaker_07
I'm in the camp of And I have three teams, two that did badly and one that's doing well, but I just want to have a good QB, that's all I care about.

01:51:08 Speaker_07
I feel like I can patch together everything else, but anyone who has Lamar or Josh Allen or Burrow in any of these leagues, you're just like, fuck, that guy's probably gonna win.

01:51:17 Speaker_05
That's why you play fantasy, because of that Allen game against the Rams.

01:51:19 Speaker_03
Yeah, 100%. The key point is getting a guy who can move. I'm so done with pocket passers. I drafted Goff, who's been good, He's been solid. Gough and Stroud.

01:51:28 Speaker_03
It's been so tough because you basically need 280 and three touchdowns out of Gough every single week just for him to get by. Lamar, Josh.

01:51:37 Speaker_07
My Holmes has turned into that too for different reasons.

01:51:39 Speaker_03
Holmes has been terrible as a fantasy quarterback. You can't start him. He's the biggest busted quarterback in fantasy.

01:51:44 Speaker_07
Before we go, New York, because you're in New York. Giants versus Jets. Which team is more down, which franchise fan base is more down in the dumps right now between those two?

01:51:56 Speaker_05
I think the Jets fans are a little in shock, whereas the Giants fans are like, I don't know. When I run into people on the street, and they're like, oh, you're on the football show. And I go, yeah.

01:52:05 Speaker_05
And the thing I always say to them, wherever I am, I'm like, oh, who's your team? Cowboys, Texans. The Giants fans always go. Like, they're so apologetic.

01:52:13 Speaker_07
They've hit that point where they're apologizing?

01:52:15 Speaker_05
Oh, yeah. It's been a while. Oh, no. Yeah. It's just like, our show that we do on NFL Network started in 2016. Every single year, the Jets and Giants have sucked. They've always sucked.

01:52:25 Speaker_05
The only one that didn't suck was the Giants team when they went on the boat with the Odell thing. Like, that's the only glimpse.

01:52:30 Speaker_07
What about the Danny Dimes playoff win in Minnesota?

01:52:32 Speaker_05
That was a fever dream.

01:52:33 Speaker_07
Yeah, but that was, they were like 9-8 that year or whatever.

01:52:35 Speaker_05
It was a terrible team. Yeah. But so, I think the Giants fans are like, we know we're terrible and we're embarrassed.

01:52:41 Speaker_05
I think the Jets fans were like, they bought some lottery tickets and before they won it, they like put a down payment on a mansion and a boat and they're like, I'm gonna win this shit. And then match one number on their lottery ticket.

01:52:53 Speaker_05
And I think, so I think they're like, their mental health is in question and they're in shock. It sucks.

01:52:57 Speaker_07
Yeah, it's tough because the Red Sox fans used to be like this too before we won the World Series, where it's this rare combination of fatalism and thinking things aren't gonna go wrong, but then before the season, like this crazy optimism.

01:53:10 Speaker_07
It's like, how are these two things the same? Where it's like March-Spring training in 2000, you'd be like, this is it.

01:53:16 Speaker_05
We're winning this year. We've got a great rotation.

01:53:18 Speaker_07
The Vegas, the odds for the Boston team, they could always put them down because they knew all these dumbasses would come from Massachusetts and bet it. And the Jets have those fans too, that they actually think it's going to work out.

01:53:31 Speaker_07
And then there's people like Fennessy, who's like, this is going to be a beautiful disaster.

01:53:35 Speaker_05
Sean had the best tweet ever. The one he keeps retweeting about, it was the day the Jets Niners were going to play. I love it. I just want to go on record. I think this will be a complete disaster. Everyone will be fired and Rodgers will retire.

01:53:45 Speaker_05
And he's probably going to be right. The Jets season... It might have been the last great tweet. It was a great tweet. We talked about that on our show. We even brought up Fennessy's tweet.

01:53:54 Speaker_05
But this season for the Jets is not like a D or a D. It is an F. It is as bad as it could go. Short of like a tragedy happened off the field.

01:54:02 Speaker_07
Like, it is an F. They basically had, what, seven one-score games that they had the ball in the last three minutes, but somehow didn't win any of them. I don't know how they fixed it either.

01:54:12 Speaker_03
Rodgers tried his best. You know, he has that dot coming out in two weeks.

01:54:15 Speaker_07
Yeah, Nygma.

01:54:15 Speaker_03
You can see he had his first 300-yard game as a Jet this week. He was on the press tour. He was trying to get viewers. Now what? A 3-11 Jets team? We're going to watch this documentary?

01:54:24 Speaker_07
Yeah, the funniest thing, I watched that whole Jets-Miami game because I had Miami in a parlay. Miami was terrible the whole game. They looked like they didn't want to be there. They looked like they were the team that was 3-10.

01:54:35 Speaker_07
And the Jets were into it. They were trying to win. They were moving the ball. Their offense was better. And somehow Miami still won the game and it was basically because the Jets, as usual, just fucked up completely with three minutes left.

01:54:47 Speaker_07
F. Pretty brutal. Yes. So what would you rate this season from A-plus to F-minus? What's so great for the season so far through 14 weeks?

01:54:55 Speaker_05
Oh, just as a whole?

01:54:56 Speaker_07
Yeah, just as a whole. For content, storylines, excitement, everything.

01:55:02 Speaker_05
I think it's like a B-plus because we have just some really good teams. Like I mentioned that thing, the NFC North is fun. That Bill Rams game we just watched was amazing. That Lions game against the Packers was 34-31. Like, we've got some Rembrandts.

01:55:14 Speaker_05
We've got some... Like, when you say, what's the game of the year? We have like eight or nine games of the year. And I like that the quarterbacks aren't hurt. Like, that's really what I care about. Allen's out there. Mahomes out there.

01:55:26 Speaker_05
Even Borough on a losing team, like, you get to watch those guys. You don't have to turn on the Thursday nighter and it's Taylor Heineke versus Mitch Trubisky.

01:55:32 Speaker_07
I mean, we did lose Aidan O'Connell.

01:55:34 Speaker_05
We lost Dayton, but I heard it's not as bad as we thought. Maybe he'll be coming back.

01:55:36 Speaker_07
Maybe he'll be back.

01:55:37 Speaker_03
A preventative air cast for Aidan O'Connell, yeah.

01:55:40 Speaker_07
What do you have for a grade?

01:55:41 Speaker_03
Probably A-. I think it's been really fun. I mean, the Lions storyline is amazing. I feel like everybody in America wants the Lions to win a Super Bowl.

01:55:49 Speaker_07
Also, they're the rare... public team that's actually really fun to watch every week. I genuinely enjoy watching their offense. When Jamar Gibbs is in the game, I'm like, I don't even know if I'm on a fantasy team.

01:55:59 Speaker_03
Jamar Gibbs is in.

01:56:00 Speaker_05
You feel like you do.

01:56:01 Speaker_03
The golf storyline's great. The weird 12-1 Chiefs is fun. Saquon going to the Eagles and then maybe breaking the rushing record is unbelievable. I think it's been a really fun year.

01:56:11 Speaker_07
I would be at an A-, but the Drake May thing puts me at a solid A. I'm just out of my mind about how fun this Drake May thing's been. I can't believe he's this good already. I just can't believe it.

01:56:21 Speaker_05
It is really cool.

01:56:22 Speaker_07
It's crazy that he's this far along. I've had terrible quarterbacks and I've had the greatest quarterback ever. I don't know if he's going to be even in the ballpark of somebody like Brady, but he's clearly a franchise guy.

01:56:38 Speaker_07
Worst case scenario, I feel like he could at least be like Herbert.

01:56:40 Speaker_05
All you care about is you got a guy.

01:56:42 Speaker_07
We have a guy. That's all you need in football.

01:56:44 Speaker_05
Well, I can't believe I did the B-plus then without mentioning it. I mean, I think like they are huge. There's two massive blemishes on the season. The Jets, just complete disaster, and the Bears.

01:56:53 Speaker_05
I mean, the Bears are a massive disappointment from start to finish. If the Jets are an F, the Bears are a D-plus.

01:56:58 Speaker_07
Well, I thought, new coach, I thought you guys bumped back. Oh, no, that was the opposite.

01:57:01 Speaker_05
— You're supposed to get the bump. Like, the Saints got the bump with that guy. — The Clogger bumped you back. — That Niners-Bears game was maybe the worst game of the year. I mean, it was an unbelievably terrible, pathetic game.

01:57:11 Speaker_07
— I think that was the only pick I lost, and it was over five minutes into the game.

01:57:15 Speaker_05
— You thought the Bears were going to win? — I did!

01:57:17 Speaker_07
I was like, new coach bump. — Definitely. — They figured out Caleb, just getting rid of the ball fast.

01:57:21 Speaker_05
— They were way worse than they were under Matt Iberfluss, so think about that. Like, they looked way worse. Like, they should have brought Iberflus back, they would have had a better performance.

01:57:28 Speaker_03
Well, it's like, Iberflus leaves, the defense probably gets worse, and then you promote the guy running the offense, and now you have a different person running the offense. Right. Gets messy quick. Did you get suckered by that, though?

01:57:38 Speaker_05
Yeah, the locker room was so excited about the new guy, and they're gonna be ready to play. They were so bad on that game.

01:57:44 Speaker_07
Well, that was like when Antonio Pierce got the job, and they were smoking cigars after the first win, and then within nine months, Devontae Adams is like, get me the fuck out of here.

01:57:52 Speaker_05
I'm glad you brought that up. Put up with the cigars. Because I have landed on this take, and I say it all, never hire an interim coach. I don't care what happens.

01:58:00 Speaker_05
The interim coach is, you get out of a miserable marriage, you're just so pissed, and the next girlfriend you meet, you fucking marry her. You don't take her to Cabo, you marry her.

01:58:10 Speaker_01
It never works out.

01:58:12 Speaker_05
Have her fling, do it, fine. She made me tune this out, it was incredible. Watch the Saints win a couple more games, and they'll be like, I don't know, Darren Rizzi gets them to compete. Don't hire Darren Rizzi, do respect him.

01:58:22 Speaker_07
The only interim coach who actually should have been hired was Pit Boss Rich, the Raiders guy. Oh, Tom Cable?

01:58:28 Speaker_05
Rich Versuccia, whatever. Oh, Versaccia. Yeah, Versaccia.

01:58:30 Speaker_07
Special teams coach. Pit Boss Rich. He'd come in with like, alright guys, I'll be back in 20.

01:58:36 Speaker_05
Damn right. Changing out 200, their car, they were in the playoffs that time. Yeah, I like pit bosses. And now he's the special teams coach again. But no, don't ever hire the interim coach. You're marrying the fling after the marriage. It's terrible.

01:58:47 Speaker_07
My dream is Drake May, year two.

01:58:50 Speaker_05
Yeah.

01:58:50 Speaker_07
Vrabel. Brian Dayball, offensive coordinator. Let's go. There's not a head coach opening though, Bill. What are you talking about? There might be if we lose these last four games.

01:59:02 Speaker_07
The problem is we're gonna go to Arizona and he's probably gonna throw for like 360 and beat Arizona and then Mayo will keep his job.

01:59:08 Speaker_03
Do you want a tackle or a wide receiver in the draft?

01:59:12 Speaker_07
Thanks for asking, because I've obviously studied a lot. My dad is now wading into the draft waters as well. Just finding out about this T-Mac character, this wide receiver.

01:59:25 Speaker_07
It doesn't feel like they're going to be a top five team, but there's no top five left tackle.

01:59:30 Speaker_07
which sets us up for the trade down, which I'd feel great about if we had an owner that wasn't 83 years old and we had an actual GM and not an interim GM, but it feels like they have to trade back.

01:59:43 Speaker_07
I'm in the camp of, I would take Hunter if we had the third pick.

01:59:47 Speaker_03
Really?

01:59:48 Speaker_07
If he's there. He just seems like he's going to be a superstar. I'm going to change my mind on this a hundred times, but like, It just seems like sometimes these guys get in the draft and everybody's just like, that guy's special.

02:00:01 Speaker_07
And he just seems like a, that guy's special guy. You could have said this about Marvin Harrison last year, though. I mean, he hasn't turned out to be that special. But there's no left tackle.

02:00:09 Speaker_07
This is the one draft where there's like no, even like a Joe Alt.

02:00:12 Speaker_03
Yeah, probably not one worthy of a top three pick.

02:00:15 Speaker_07
No. Who's the defensive line guy? There's like an awesome defensive tackle. That's another one. Like, when does it goes wrong to have like an awesome defensive tackle?

02:00:26 Speaker_05
Craig, have you had some takes on where Shadour is gonna go? Because... I mean, he certainly feels like a Raider to me.

02:00:33 Speaker_07
The Vegas, the father-son Vegas thing feels like Leia.

02:00:36 Speaker_05
It's a perfect fit. It's so Raiders-y. What if the Giants get the number one pick? Because the worst fit of all time is the Mara family and the Sanders family. Oh my God. Not at all. But what if they get the number one pick and he's the guy?

02:00:46 Speaker_05
Raiders feels perfect. The Giants might get it, though. Well, they almost screwed it up yesterday, and then the kicker missed.

02:00:52 Speaker_03
There was a conspiracy theory that Shador was tweeting, thank you, Lord, every time the Raiders lost because he wanted to go. to the Raiders. It happened for 11 weeks. It was perfect. Even when they were on a bye, he didn't tweet it that week.

02:01:06 Speaker_03
But the Raiders, I think, won and then he tweeted it. And so it turns out not true. But there was a while there where I was like, Shadur and Deon are angling to get to Vegas. It is the most fun destination for those guys.

02:01:16 Speaker_07
Yeah. It's amazing. Because the team's a disaster every year anyway, so we might as well have the same.

02:01:20 Speaker_05
And Bowers is sitting right there now, like he already has a stud. And like, let's just have a carnival. Make Deon the coach. Why not? Have Shadur be the quarterback. Great content.

02:01:29 Speaker_07
I had somebody who knows stuff tell me about the Pats. Like, if that job did become available, they were like, they said, you know, it's actually like a destination job now. Cause, cause of Drake May. I was like, it's like, I need a cigarette.

02:01:44 Speaker_07
Six to midnight. Just give me a lighter. I just need a cigarette. I just want to reflect this. But, uh, I think with, uh, Vegas, the fun part would just be having some sort of personality with that franchise.

02:01:57 Speaker_05
Well, we had it in Pierce. Like, that's the guy. We smoked cigars. I won the Super Bowl. But he just looks miserable now, because they hired the interim coach. You don't do that.

02:02:04 Speaker_07
You can't do it. I like your theory. Thank you. All right. I'm going A, A minus, B plus. Kyle Brandt, great to see you, as always. Craig Powell. Thanks, Craig. Pleasure. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jacoby and Goldsberry.

02:02:19 Speaker_07
Thanks to Kyle and Craig. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerutti and Jesse Lopez. Thanks to Gehau and Jack. Thanks to you guys for making it through our second podcast of the week. I'm gonna have another one on Thursday.

02:02:34 Speaker_07
I'm gonna have an NBA six pack. I'm gonna have million dollar picks. I'm gonna have a guest. Stay tuned. Get ready to buckle up. I'll see you on Thursday.

02:02:43 Speaker_00
on the wayside

02:03:03 Speaker_07
Must be 21 plus and president in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and president in D.C. Gambling problem, call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com.

02:03:13 Speaker_07
Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here, visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or

02:03:32 Speaker_07
call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York.