Morgan Freeman AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

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Episode: Morgan Freeman

Author: Armchair Umbrella
Duration: 01:53:27

Episode Shownotes

Morgan Freeman (Lioness, Shawshank Redemption, Unforgiven) is an Academy Award-winning actor, producer, and narrator. Morgan joins the Armchair Expert to discuss auditioning as dancer for the World’s Fair, narrowly avoiding becoming the next Captain Kangaroo, and a difficult decision to leave his grandmother’s home in Mississippi to pursue his acting

dreams. Morgan and Dax talk about bucking authority, how sailing is a metaphor for hope, and not wanting to be pitied during a terminal illness. Morgan shares the benefits of working with writer-directors, what it was like being asked to be in a film by Clint Eastwood himself, and why struggling to get back up when you fall is the true secret of success.Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Summary

In this episode of Armchair Expert, Morgan Freeman discusses his life, including his childhood, the influence of family, challenges faced in pursuing acting, and the importance of resilience. He reflects on key moments that shaped his career, such as winning a statewide drama competition and his experience with Clint Eastwood. Freeman candidly shares personal struggles, including his aversion to authority and the impact of losing loved ones, emphasizing how these experiences fueled his ambition. The conversation further explores his views on collaboration in filmmaking and the significance of embracing one's dreams despite life's obstacles.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Morgan Freeman) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:00 Speaker_02
Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert.

00:00:16 Speaker_02
I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by Lily Padman. And today we have the greatest voice of all time, perhaps. I mean... Him and Edward James Olmos, Darth Vader.

00:00:27 Speaker_07
Sure.

00:00:27 Speaker_02
That's classic.

00:00:29 Speaker_07
I'm picking... Morgie.

00:00:30 Speaker_02
Yeah, Morgan's my guy too. Morgan Freeman, Academy Award-winning actor, producer, and narrator of The Shawshank Redemption, Seven, our very favorite ding, ding, dingles.

00:00:39 Speaker_06
God.

00:00:40 Speaker_02
Bruce Almighty, The Bucket List, Million Dollar Baby, and new season of Lioness, The Taylor Sheridan Show, hugely popular, season two out right now on Paramount+. What a delight, Morgan Freeman.

00:00:53 Speaker_07
I feel really, really, really lucky we got to talk to him.

00:00:57 Speaker_04
Yeah.

00:00:59 Speaker_07
Such a legend, like a true, one of one, we're not gonna get another one like him. Very, very special.

00:01:07 Speaker_02
Yeah, so basically this is almost an ASMR gift. You're gonna get to hear Morgan Freeman, that beautiful, velvety voice for the next hour and change. So please enjoy Morgan Freeman.

00:01:20 Speaker_01
The Grinch is back again to ruin your Christmas season with Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast. Listen as his celebrity guests try to persuade the Grinch that there's more to love about the holiday season.

00:01:30 Speaker_01
Follow Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:54 Speaker_02
Hello, sir. Hello, sir. I'm Dax. How you doing? Good. Nice to meet you. Thanks for coming. Where are you guys coming from?

00:02:01 Speaker_09
I live here in L.A.

00:02:02 Speaker_02
You do? Okay.

00:02:03 Speaker_09
And Morgan lives in Alabama, Mississippi. Oh, yeah.

00:02:08 Speaker_02
Yeah, which one? That's the question. Which one what? Alabama or Mississippi? Both. You can't have both. Why not?

00:02:14 Speaker_08
I guess maybe you can have both. I do have both. But I spend most of my time in Alabama. Do I have to put these on? You don't have to do anything you don't want to do.

00:02:25 Speaker_07
If you like them, great.

00:02:25 Speaker_02
If you like them, you like them. If you don't, you don't. Let's go. You guys out of here?

00:02:29 Speaker_07
It's time to leave.

00:02:30 Speaker_02
That was the final straw. First was, where are you staying? None of your fucking business. Two was, do you really live in Alabama, Mississippi? That was strike two. Two strikes.

00:02:39 Speaker_07
You're the one that says you can't live in both.

00:02:41 Speaker_02
I did say that.

00:02:42 Speaker_07
Well, it does feel like a riddle. Like, how could you possibly live in both?

00:02:46 Speaker_02
Like, where did they bury the survivors? That old riddle. Yeah, I guess you could conceivably build a house right on the state line and put your bedroom dead in the middle of it.

00:02:56 Speaker_07
Oh, that'd be fun.

00:02:57 Speaker_02
And go to sleep on one side and wake up on the other side of the bed. Well, Morgan, welcome to the show. Are you doing a bunch of press right now for Linus? Yeah. And what's your overall feelings about press?

00:03:07 Speaker_02
You can be very honest, because I have varying views myself. It's a have to. You have to do it.

00:03:12 Speaker_08
That's right. I was given a choice of not. I would not.

00:03:17 Speaker_07
That's fair.

00:03:18 Speaker_08
Well, it's the only part of the business that let's call it an imposition. You have to do it. And it gets old.

00:03:28 Speaker_06
Yeah.

00:03:29 Speaker_02
So there's many reasons why it can be uncomfortable. One of them is starting to just kind of feel fraudulent because you're repeating yourself so much. Exactly. I can turn the air on for us.

00:03:39 Speaker_08
Oh, shit. We just turned it off.

00:03:41 Speaker_02
Oh, I'm turning it off. I'm turning it right back off.

00:03:45 Speaker_08
I don't react well to air conditioning. Oh, tell me. Well, it makes you sniffly. It steps up my head. I'm allergic. Specifically, if I get air blowing on me, cool air, and that's it. First of all, my head stops and I sneeze.

00:04:00 Speaker_08
I do all the things that you do if you're allergic to something. Right. And I know why you were allergic to things. You just don't like it. Sure, sure.

00:04:12 Speaker_02
Now, you were brought home as a baby to Memphis? From Memphis. Dad was a barber. Well, at the time, they were both nurses' aides.

00:04:22 Speaker_08
Uh-huh. Oh, okay. And then your mom was also a teacher at some point? A little later, yeah. She started to teach music, because she played the pi-nana. Ah, the pi-nana. Yeah. Tickled the ivory? Yeah.

00:04:34 Speaker_07
Did you ever play? Did she teach you?

00:04:36 Speaker_08
She didn't have the patience to teach me. Either that or I didn't have the patience to learn. I wanted to play the piano. I didn't want to learn how.

00:04:45 Speaker_07
Same. That's the big hurdle, the learning part, unfortunately.

00:04:50 Speaker_02
Yeah. You go down to Mississippi and you live with your dad's mom there? Or does the whole family? I'm 87 years old. They were all dead. When you were a toddler. Oh, when I was a toddler. Yeah. No, I'm sorry. This is what I want to do.

00:05:03 Speaker_02
Let's introduce CRS condition, which you've recently diagnosed yourself as, because I think that's a good primer for the interview. Yeah.

00:05:10 Speaker_07
What is that?

00:05:12 Speaker_02
CRS?

00:05:12 Speaker_07
Yeah.

00:05:14 Speaker_02
He can't remember a lot of things. And he said on Kimmel that he does have CRS as a condition, which is can't remember shit.

00:05:22 Speaker_05
Oh, wow.

00:05:24 Speaker_02
So that medical condition, we should state up front in case we get a little blurry on the time.

00:05:31 Speaker_08
My long-term memory is like most I think is pretty much intact. It's like five minutes ago.

00:05:37 Speaker_02
And does that start extending also going back months? I do wonder, can short-term get bigger, short-term memory? I don't know. Mine gets smaller and smaller. But those core memories, they seem very intact. Yeah, that's a good term to use, core.

00:05:53 Speaker_02
I remember my childhood as well perfectly. Two years ago, I'm not sure what happened. And I kind of marvel at what an impact it makes. Do you think about that?

00:06:01 Speaker_08
There are moments in your childhood that are just clear. I have moments when I remember something when I was four or five. Six years old.

00:06:11 Speaker_02
Do you remember a context at all? Do you remember World War II was ending? Is that a memorable event? Or was that just the water you were swimming in? That's just water I was swimming in, good way to put it.

00:06:20 Speaker_08
I was a little boy during the war. How old was I when it ended? I think eight, maybe. 37 you were born, ended in 45. Good math.

00:06:30 Speaker_07
Dax does a lot of math here.

00:06:31 Speaker_02
That's one of my few skills, Morgan. Really? Yeah, if you want to hit me with anything. You know, like tax items you want me to add up quickly.

00:06:38 Speaker_08
Right on, because mine sucks. Always has. How were you as a student? I was very good as a student. I just wasn't good in math. I read a lot. That set me up with English teachers. Everybody else except math instructor.

00:06:52 Speaker_08
But he was kind to me because I was a star.

00:06:55 Speaker_02
Already an acting star. Yeah. Yeah, you start really, really young, yeah? Your first role's nine years old? Eight. Eight? Yeah. And you're living with grandma or mom? Mom by now. Okay.

00:07:07 Speaker_08
That grandma was my paternal grandma. Died at age six and a half. while you were there? Oh, yeah. I remember I'm a junior, so my name was Junior. There were two or three ladies sitting with her while she was dying.

00:07:23 Speaker_08
And then finally, say, you think she's dead? Well, call Junior and have him call her. If she doesn't answer, she's gone. You were the test.

00:07:33 Speaker_06
Yeah.

00:07:33 Speaker_08
Shook her, called her name, and she wasn't there anymore. Did you enjoy living with her? She was a little boy, yeah. I was the apple of her eye. Both grandmothers were worthy.

00:07:45 Speaker_07
Big influences.

00:07:47 Speaker_02
Yeah. Now, this gets serious, I'm assuming, because at 12 years old, you win a statewide, you're like, in a drama competition, you win best actor at 12 years old. Are you feeling yourself? Are you like, next stop is Broadway?

00:08:00 Speaker_02
What does that do to a 12-year-old?

00:08:02 Speaker_08
I always wanted to be in the movies. I didn't see stage plays. Right, right. I was living in the movies. So that was where my passions lay and lie.

00:08:14 Speaker_07
What were the movies at the time that were huge for you?

00:08:18 Speaker_08
Those Saturday Westerns, Lash LaRue and Buck Rogers. That was a Western in space, right? Yeah. Ken Maynard. Later on, John Wayne was coming along.

00:08:29 Speaker_02
Was Eastwood, you were too similar in age, right? How old were you when you started seeing Eastwood in movies?

00:08:34 Speaker_08
He was on Rawhide, Rowdy Yates. That's when I first noticed him. And then, you know, he disappeared for a while. And then he was the man with no name. Could shoot five guys just like that.

00:08:49 Speaker_02
Yeah, I was only curious if you had been a fan of his before you worked with him. Big fan. My favorite movie was the outlawed Josie Wales. Josie Wales, yeah, yeah. Now, you were also moving a ton, right?

00:08:59 Speaker_02
Because you did Memphis, you did a couple of places in Mississippi, you did Gary, Indiana. How were you doing when you were dropping into these new schools nonstop? Getting beat up. You were getting beat up. Yeah.

00:09:10 Speaker_08
You know, skinny, bookish. The only thing I had going for me was I wouldn't give up. I would not show up.

00:09:17 Speaker_02
What was the roughest stop? Chicago, South Side.

00:09:21 Speaker_08
What ages were you in Chicago? I got there at age six. First time I was ever slapped real hard. Oh, oh. Because it was a December in Chicago. And that cold, I'd never experienced that before.

00:09:33 Speaker_08
And at the time, the Illinois Central Railroad was the connection. So I got off the train with my biological father because he came down after my grandmother died, his mother. He had to come and get me and my sister. You have two older sisters?

00:09:52 Speaker_08
Two older brothers, a younger sister, and a younger brother.

00:09:55 Speaker_02
So you're a middle, middle, middle. I am the middle child. Quintessential middle.

00:10:00 Speaker_08
Quintessential.

00:10:01 Speaker_02
Easy target.

00:10:02 Speaker_08
Yeah. Every time I change schools, what things should mean. All the time. It had to be initiated into some other little gang.

00:10:11 Speaker_02
You got to prove where you sit on this ladder every time you arrive. It doesn't come with you. No.

00:10:16 Speaker_08
And I wasn't a fighter. You could jump by four or five boys. All right. All right. All right. Jesus quit.

00:10:22 Speaker_02
Yes. Yes. You're just praying for someone to have some kindness and mercy. God, I hope one of these four boys has the bravery to say we should stop kicking him now. I think we might be hurting him very badly.

00:10:35 Speaker_07
Did your brothers get picked on too?

00:10:38 Speaker_08
We didn't grow up together, not until I was 11 years old, because two kids were with my mother, ultimately, and two were with her mother, my maternal grandmother.

00:10:53 Speaker_02
Dad, I'm just going to guess, he died very young. 49, 50, how old was dad when he died? Very young, yeah. Yeah, like 47, something like that. Says cirrhosis. Was he a drinker? Oh, heavens. Yeah. Okay. Again, same dad was a raging alcoholic.

00:11:10 Speaker_02
Stepdads were in the mix that were much worse.

00:11:13 Speaker_08
My stepdad was it. He was my dad.

00:11:16 Speaker_02
You got a good one. Yeah. Oh, that's great. That rarely happens.

00:11:20 Speaker_08
Yeah. Well, it wasn't early. It was late. He had his own issues. Sure. Who does, but it was good to me and my mom.

00:11:27 Speaker_02
So what things did you pick up from that? For me, I lived in the same house for 16 years, never wanted to leave. I hate moving because of that childhood. I hate authority.

00:11:37 Speaker_02
And from enough interviews I've listened to you in the last couple of days, I feel like you might have a little of authority issue as well. Do you? Just a little. Just a little.

00:11:46 Speaker_08
Just a tiny bit. Yeah, it was three years, eight months, and ten days in the United States Air Force.

00:11:51 Speaker_02
Yeah, so shocking to me you went into the Air Force, because that sounds to me terrible. A lot of dumb people are going to tell me what to do all the time, and I'm going to have to listen.

00:12:01 Speaker_08
Yeah, I got into trouble there. Want to hear one of my stories? I would love to, yes. I'd come out of high school, been able to just murder an Underwood typewriter. You were a quick typist. Yeah.

00:12:15 Speaker_08
And the Air Force made me a radar mechanic, and that hit my stick, you know, really.

00:12:21 Speaker_02
You were a thespian.

00:12:23 Speaker_08
Closer. Yeah, and you hated math. The kid who was the clerk in the maintenance office was arrested for child molestation. In other words, he had a little girlfriend. He was 19 and she was 13. Oh boy, okay.

00:12:45 Speaker_04
No bueno.

00:12:46 Speaker_08
Yeah. So I volunteered to take his place in there because Dexterous was the typewriter. I could even compose a reasonable letter and all that kind of stuff.

00:12:55 Speaker_08
Now I'm working there for a few months and a new sergeant comes to take over the maintenance department. Tech sergeant, black guy, tall, had an eyebrow that could reach his hairline. My captain, who thought I was a gift from heaven.

00:13:13 Speaker_08
Because of the taping speed and the composition.

00:13:16 Speaker_02
Yeah.

00:13:16 Speaker_08
I want you to meet one of my best men, he says to the sergeant. I go in and say, Sergeant Spalding, Airman Freeman, one of my best. I say, Sergeant, it's nice to meet you. Keep your nose clean. I'm sure we're going to get along.

00:13:30 Speaker_06
You said that. Oh my god.

00:13:34 Speaker_02
Oopsies. You'll fare well in my written coverage of this. How'd that go down?

00:13:41 Speaker_08
That eyebrow shot up too quick. And you look down. There was a big box next to him. So you want to take this box up to the sixth tower?

00:13:50 Speaker_06
No.

00:13:53 Speaker_08
He's black. This is Captain, this is White. Captain is sitting down there with his head down. I let him stew for half a minute, I guess. Then I said, Sergeant, if you want me to take this box up to the sixth tower, just tell me to do it. And it's gone.

00:14:09 Speaker_08
But you asked me if I wanted to. Oh, wow.

00:14:11 Speaker_02
Right. And I don't.

00:14:15 Speaker_08
But you know, the guy became my best friend. Oh, he did? Yeah, absolutely. He'd stand around and wait for me to pull that shit. How did you end up in the Air Force? I needed to get out of Mississippi. I'm never going to be in the movies in Mississippi.

00:14:28 Speaker_08
I got to leave. I wanted to fly a jet. I wanted to be a pilot. Yeah. You loved airplanes, right?

00:14:34 Speaker_02
At the time I did. I still do. I'm a pilot now. At 65, you got your license. That's incredible. Yeah.

00:14:40 Speaker_08
You know a lot about me.

00:14:41 Speaker_02
I'm trying. You deserve that. Thank you. And then some. where we were graduating and getting into the Air Force. Yeah, just seems like such an interesting detour for you, who seems like you know, but I get it. You need to get out. I needed to move.

00:14:55 Speaker_08
That's a sad part of that because my grandmother, who was life savior for me, died alone. All of us, we left home. And she said to me, if you stay here and go to school, I had two partial scholarships. For drama, right? Yeah. And no, I gotta go.

00:15:17 Speaker_07
Yeah. Live your life.

00:15:18 Speaker_08
Yeah. She says, I'll buy you a car if you stay home.

00:15:23 Speaker_02
Aww. I gotta go. So that's a heartbreaker. Because those grandmas, boy, they were available, right? Yeah. Yeah.

00:15:28 Speaker_07
These are the things that you sit with for the rest of your life when you make these decisions.

00:15:33 Speaker_02
I was thinking about, what was your expectation? Because dad died so young. Grandma died young. 57 when my paternal grandmother died. Yeah, all of it's all too young. Your mom made it to her 80s. Yeah, she was in her late 80s, actually.

00:15:49 Speaker_02
When the adults around you growing up die so prematurely, I would imagine it's impossible to not start thinking, I'm not going to count on seeing 90 or seeing 80. Did that impact you or did you never have that view?

00:16:01 Speaker_08
No, I didn't. I just never thought about it. And when I think about dying, I think about just not being here. I do things and I fly planes, sail boats and stuff. You work out, you play golf. Yeah.

00:16:13 Speaker_08
And we get into some situations when you think, well, I guess this is it.

00:16:17 Speaker_02
Especially flying's your hobby. You get to have that thought probably more than most people. I'm telling you, you'll get it more. Fuck that. I race stuff. I'm all about flying. The ocean? No, thank you. Oh, man. The ocean, I'll tell you in one second.

00:16:30 Speaker_02
Guess what? I'm in charge. There's no game plan that's going to get you out of this.

00:16:34 Speaker_08
Yeah, but if you're on the ocean, you got a good sailboat. It's very survivable.

00:16:38 Speaker_02
Yeah, I just watched this doc about this young woman, this South African who sailed around the world. Yeah, all by herself for months. No wind for like two weeks.

00:16:48 Speaker_08
Sitting in the middle of the ocean, no wind. That's the worst part of sailing, right there. No wind. The ocean. Flat gone. And you're pretty much in the doldrums.

00:16:57 Speaker_08
And the doldrums is that area between the equator and, say, the next 10 degrees north or south. Nothing happens there.

00:17:06 Speaker_02
Yeah, when that happens, I wonder if you feel like has the world stopped people have gone insane. Yeah Yeah to see the glass like surface of the ocean. I would think Oh motion has stopped on planet Earth No swell. Oh, that's terrifying.

00:17:21 Speaker_08
However, there is a current The current is only gonna be about a knot and a half two knots, but you're moving Okay, it just doesn't

00:17:31 Speaker_07
You just can't tell.

00:17:32 Speaker_08
Going 10 degrees of latitude at one and a half miles is very... So if you're headed for the Southern Ocean, you're going to go through them. It's a lot of trust. Or if you've got a good engine and enough fuel, you put on your motor.

00:17:46 Speaker_08
Get the fuck out of the doldrums. Oh, right.

00:17:48 Speaker_07
I didn't know that's where that came from.

00:17:51 Speaker_02
The doldrums?

00:17:51 Speaker_07
Yeah, I didn't know that.

00:17:53 Speaker_02
Yeah, I sailed through it one time in that Asia trip, and it was calmer, but it wasn't glass-like. That would have really freaked me out.

00:18:00 Speaker_08
It's freaky. You've been on the ocean, there's waves, there's wind, and then here you are with nothing. You think, you know, I could very well die here.

00:18:09 Speaker_06
Yeah, yeah.

00:18:10 Speaker_07
I don't want that.

00:18:11 Speaker_08
I don't want that at all.

00:18:12 Speaker_02
And rot.

00:18:13 Speaker_07
Yeah. No one's coming out here to get me.

00:18:16 Speaker_02
Right. Would you be opposed to me keeping you here as an attraction? Like when you came to my house, you could get a picture with Morgan Freeman, the taxidermied version. Can I have your oral permission for that, if that happens?

00:18:32 Speaker_02
I'm going to stuff your head.

00:18:34 Speaker_06
Stain you up.

00:18:37 Speaker_08
You know, when I die, I want to be back. He's gone. I don't want to be lying down with tubes everywhere. Somebody sitting and waiting. And I'll jump out a window. I ain't going through that shit. Well, I'm not.

00:18:51 Speaker_07
I know it's miserable.

00:18:52 Speaker_02
You're not going to do it. You can't do it. We're on to something here, though. When my wife will hear about like, so-and-so just told his family he's had cancer for two years, I'm like, yeah, that's what I'm going to do. Let me warn you now.

00:19:03 Speaker_02
I don't want anyone knowing I have something because I don't want to be pitied. I don't like that. Oh, I'm so sorry. And I may be projecting on you, but I think that's one of your things as well. I don't need it.

00:19:19 Speaker_08
I've always been, because of these backgrounds, kind of self-motivated. You have to do for yourself. Get a job when you're 13, 14 years old. That starts you off on, yeah, I can do this.

00:19:32 Speaker_02
OK, so after the Air Force, you have a pretty long period. When I'm looking at your life and your career, there's obviously a lot of unique aspects to it.

00:19:42 Speaker_02
But one of them is I think I underestimated this because in my lifetime, the most time I've been loving movies, you've certainly been a part of them. But you had a really kind of later start of stardom. And I'm curious.

00:19:55 Speaker_02
So I left Detroit, took 10 years to get an acting job, and that to me felt like 150 years. My pessimism and the weight of that for a decade was rough. I think I'd be an addict anyways, but certainly the addiction was fueled a lot by that.

00:20:12 Speaker_02
Like, oh my God, is this ever gonna happen? Have I chosen wrong? Am I gonna end up penniless? How were you during that long period of working a bit here and a bit there, having some success, then having some stagnation?

00:20:26 Speaker_02
How was that weighing on you mentally during all that?

00:20:29 Speaker_08
When I first got to L.A., it was February of 59. I had $175. I got a new garage apartment for $45 a month. But the first month's rent, $45. And then you have to put in that deposit. That's another $45. It was February, and that money ran out in April.

00:20:50 Speaker_08
I mean, completely out. I remember eating rice. That was it. Were you living around here? I was living in 4905 Second Avenue, I think, 4509 and a half. I made a friend who was a friend of the sergeant.

00:21:05 Speaker_08
His name was Sergeant John Wesley Spaulding, and he told me When you get to LA, look up this guy. He's a friend of mine from way back. So I did. And the guy befriended me, and his wife was another one of those.

00:21:20 Speaker_08
Every time I have been in really dire straits, this is the woman who got me out of it. Yeah, yeah.

00:21:26 Speaker_07
Yeah.

00:21:26 Speaker_08
reached in and pulled. Anyway, we hooked up, his wife and I. By that, I mean, she liked to do stuff that he just didn't care for. Going to swimming pools, going bowling, going roller skating. Being social and out there. Yeah.

00:21:42 Speaker_08
Well, she just enjoyed doing that stuff, and I enjoyed doing it. So she was happy to have somebody to do it with. It was no hanky-panky, although she was gorgeous.

00:21:52 Speaker_02
Although it was killing me.

00:21:55 Speaker_08
And then one day he said, God damn, man, you eat here more often than I do. That was his subtle way of saying rides over?

00:22:03 Speaker_07
He didn't like that.

00:22:05 Speaker_08
So the next time I saw her was on a weekend. And she said, when did you eat last? Tuesday? Wednesday? I ran out of rice.

00:22:16 Speaker_02
Ran out of rice. What a fucking different life you ended up having.

00:22:19 Speaker_07
Oh, I know.

00:22:21 Speaker_08
Yeah, and she worked in the Board of Education, and she was instrumental in getting me a job. So I went to work as a transcript clerk at LACC. I was thinking, OK, so I'm going to try to get into the path to the Playhouse.

00:22:36 Speaker_08
Somebody said, no, you don't want to do that, man. We've got a better theater department here at LACC, and you can go take classes for free because you're working. That's what I did.

00:22:46 Speaker_02
How do you deal with the many times where it looks like, OK, it's going to happen. Finally got my foot in the door. I'm in this play. I'm on Broadway. There's a lot of those, right?

00:22:57 Speaker_08
Yeah, I was on stage in New York. Go back to Dungeon Theater and then work your way into Off-Off-Broadway and then Off-Broadway and then Broadway. That started at around age 30.

00:23:13 Speaker_02
Were you feeling when you were with your acting peers, were you feeling behind the eight ball? Were you having that sense that you were getting older? How do you explain that? That's just your temperament. I guess that's what it is.

00:23:25 Speaker_02
And you were getting to perform. So you're like, okay, I'm performing. That's what I wanted to do.

00:23:29 Speaker_08
In San Francisco, did I mention San Francisco?

00:23:32 Speaker_02
I know that you were a part of a troupe there, the Royal something. This was the Opera Ring.

00:23:37 Speaker_08
The Opera Ring. We did Broadway shows and musicals. So I was in West Side Story and Bunch of Buns of Mattress and Can Can and the Three Penny Opera.

00:23:49 Speaker_02
So you were at the 1964 World's Fair in New York. performing and you know there was an actress that was doing her very first performance professionally at the World's Fair as a dancer. Do you know who that is? Goldie Hawn.

00:24:05 Speaker_06
Really? No way.

00:24:06 Speaker_02
Yeah, you guys were both there. That was her first kind of paid dancing performance.

00:24:11 Speaker_08
I think that was mine too. Yeah, I thought that was interesting. I was working in the, what do you call it? Garment District, New York. And a friend of mine who worked there got me a job as a skip tracer. Oh, that's a guy looking for people out on bail?

00:24:28 Speaker_08
That's different. I'd call it skip tracer. It's not. I'm tracing clothing. Oh, OK. OK.

00:24:34 Speaker_06
OK.

00:24:35 Speaker_08
Can I try to ship my tracer?

00:24:37 Speaker_06
OK.

00:24:39 Speaker_08
And I was good at that. If you send a truckload of clothes somewhere and it didn't arrive, where is it? Well, it's with the mafia down the street.

00:24:47 Speaker_02
You're in New York.

00:24:49 Speaker_08
Am I right? Is that where a lot of it was? Not the mafia, but boy, you're in the mix there.

00:24:54 Speaker_02
Stuff went missing in New York pretty regularly, right? Yeah.

00:24:59 Speaker_08
So they were moving me up in the hierarchy, and the guy who was the audit clerk took off. He got his license as a CPA, and they said, do you want to take that task? You get a $5 a week raise. If I make them from $55, I'm going to go to $60.

00:25:15 Speaker_08
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I get the job. I'm good at it. Now people are bringing me stuff to do. This was part of your job back there. Really? Yeah. And this and this. Well, he didn't ever have time to do it. And you do. Okay. How much was he making a week? Right.

00:25:37 Speaker_08
Well, he was making $105 a week. Well, come on. That's like a $35 a week raise. Just like that. We can't do that. These people who've been here 20 years are just up and leave now. There's a phone call from a woman I knew from San Francisco.

00:25:53 Speaker_08
She was in New York. We were taking dance lessons in San Francisco. I did jazz and tap. ballet. Yeah, you were very into dancing. An actor who can move and sing. You've got that much wider possibilities.

00:26:10 Speaker_08
And she called me and she said, did you know that Michael Kidd was holding auditions for dances for the World Fair the next day at my lunch hour? I went to the audition. My kid says, how soon can you start? How soon do you want me? He said, today. Today.

00:26:30 Speaker_08
I'm not coming back.

00:26:33 Speaker_02
And did all of a sudden they have $105 a week to pay you? No, they didn't. I was gone, man. I was expecting them to go, hey. My supervisor.

00:26:41 Speaker_08
He said, how much does this pay? I said, I'm not coming back. I got a job. I'm dancing. He said, how much does it pass? It's $92 a week. He says, OK, how long is that going to last? I don't care how long it lasts. And so that was it.

00:26:57 Speaker_02
It was my New York job. There's something about giving away security for the dream. There's something magic that happens. I had a job that was perfect gold cage. It's like, I only worked on the weekends. I worked enough hours I could pay to be an actor.

00:27:11 Speaker_02
At some point I had to go like, I'm quitting that. And I don't really have a plan, but I feel like I need to quit that before this other stuff's going to open up. Your Broadway debut is in 68 in Hello, Dolly. Pearl Bailey won a Tony for that.

00:27:25 Speaker_02
It was a all-black cast of Hello, Dolly. Yeah. Were you a Cab Calloway fan? Was it exciting for you? I was more excited just about being on Broadway.

00:27:36 Speaker_08
I had done an off-Broadway play. That I'm not allowed to say the name of, but you can. Yeah. The Niglovers with Vivica Lenfers. and Stacy Keach. We had a short run, show closed. I auditioned as a replacement for the part of Rudolph, the head waiter.

00:27:53 Speaker_08
And I got it. So I just moved from off-Broadway to Broadway. I was in that show for 11 months. And a guy came to me, and he said, I would like for you to come with me. I'm going to do a little show. We call it the DMZ.

00:28:10 Speaker_08
Some singing and some skits and stuff. Primarily, we're going to be anti-war. I don't have the kind of money that you're making here, but you'll get press. You joined that.

00:28:21 Speaker_02
Yeah. Now, again, you're in a Broadway play and people are getting nominated and winning Tonys. For me, I'm like, okay, buckle up. Here we go. Was it a rocket ship after that? I know we go to 1971, The Electric Company.

00:28:35 Speaker_08
There was some empty times between the World's Fair at 64. The World's Fair job didn't last but a few months count rehearsal and the show itself closed in a couple of months. So I was on the street for the most part. But I went to work at Neat-X.

00:28:54 Speaker_08
Neat-X is like early, early, early, early McDonald's. It's another one of those places where you go and you can get these little hot dogs, you can get donuts, cup of coffee, you can get scrambled eggs and bacon. Fast food. Yeah.

00:29:09 Speaker_08
And it paid $49 a week, and you worked 44 hours a week. So a dollar an hour, basically.

00:29:17 Speaker_05
Yeah.

00:29:18 Speaker_08
And it was a sign in the shop that says, no tipping.

00:29:21 Speaker_05
Oh, geez.

00:29:22 Speaker_08
Heaven forbid.

00:29:22 Speaker_05
Yeah.

00:29:24 Speaker_08
So I say to the guy in my orientation, I said, no tipping. People are going to sometimes tip you. You give them good service. What do you do? Give it back.

00:29:33 Speaker_07
Oh, my God.

00:29:33 Speaker_08
He said, well, no. What if they put it under a napkin and just walk away? He said, you ring it up as a sale.

00:29:40 Speaker_02
Why?

00:29:41 Speaker_08
And so they can keep it? So I'm working, and I'm looking around at the other guys working in this place. I hoodle them to the core. Everyone's on the grip. These guys are not working for no $49 a week.

00:29:57 Speaker_08
So the manager was a black guy, and I cornered him in the dressing room and said, OK, how does this work?

00:30:07 Speaker_02
Give me the real. Show me the ropes.

00:30:10 Speaker_04
So he showed me the ropes. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

00:30:21 Speaker_01
Hello, ladies and gerbs, boys and girls. The Grinch is back again to ruin your Christmas season with Tiz the Grinch Holiday Podcast.

00:30:29 Speaker_01
After last year, he's learned a thing or two about hosting, and he's ready to rant against Christmas cheer and roast his celebrity guests like chestnuts on an open fire.

00:30:39 Speaker_01
You can listen with the whole family as guest stars like Jon Hamm, Brittany Broski, and Danny DeVito try to persuade the mean old Grinch that there's a lot to love about the insufferable holiday season. But that's not all.

00:30:50 Speaker_01
Somebody stole all the children of Whoville's letters to Santa and everybody thinks the Grinch is responsible. It's a real Whoville whodunit. Can Cindy Lou and Max help clear the Grinch's name? Grab your hot cocoa and cozy slippers to find out.

00:31:04 Speaker_01
Follow Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Unlock weekly Christmas mystery bonus content and listen to every episode ad free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.

00:31:21 Speaker_00
They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant.

00:31:37 Speaker_00
When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983, There were many questions surrounding his death.

00:31:45 Speaker_00
The last person seen with him was Laney Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry.

00:31:57 Speaker_00
But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show, Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder.

00:32:09 Speaker_00
Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

00:32:28 Speaker_07
So what was the trick?

00:32:29 Speaker_08
A guy comes in, he orders a cup of coffee and a hamburger. So you give him a cup of coffee, the hamburger, you ring up the cup of coffee.

00:32:38 Speaker_07
Now we're talking.

00:32:41 Speaker_08
Slashing prices. And then you keep count of how much you've got in the cash register. And when it gets to be like a five or ten dollars, all you have to do is take that ten dollars. Never put your hand in your pocket.

00:32:56 Speaker_08
Just fold it up and then get the coffee holder. Coffee pot. Oh, get the coffee pot. Yeah, because Big Aaron is in the bank.

00:33:06 Speaker_02
Pocket, okay. Yeah, and if you're doing that five shifts a week, you've doubled your salary right there.

00:33:15 Speaker_08
I was bringing home about a hundred a week, but they were getting on to this whole thing. At some point, yeah. Because a guy would come by periodically and just check the cash register.

00:33:27 Speaker_08
And if there was more money in there than the receipt shows, that's somebody's going to have to pay for it. I didn't like any part of that. Here I am stealing and this isn't going to last very long. So I quit.

00:33:40 Speaker_08
I didn't quit because I had something else to do. I quit because I didn't want to get caught stealing.

00:33:45 Speaker_04
Yeah.

00:33:45 Speaker_08
And you didn't want to work there for 49 bucks with no tips. I didn't. So that was it. Here I am back on the street again. Now it's desperation time. Friend of mine calls, says, we're going to go up to Stowe Playhouse and do A Taste of Honey.

00:34:01 Speaker_08
She's going to direct, and I'm going to star. Would you like to come along and do that? Yeah. Summer stock. Now I got a little job in Stowe, Vermont, so I'm exotic.

00:34:13 Speaker_02
Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're tall and striking.

00:34:17 Speaker_08
And black. Yeah. A guy gives me a boat. Guy comes along and says, you're Morgan Freeman. That's all I've heard since I hit town. Yeah, yeah. So that's when I started sailing with that little boat on our little reservoir in Stowe, Vermont.

00:34:33 Speaker_08
I was hooked like you wouldn't believe. Immediately.

00:34:36 Speaker_02
What do you suppose it is? It's just your will, right? There's no engine to rely on. Is that the appeal? Like, I'm making this happen or it's not happening? The ownership of the experience?

00:34:47 Speaker_08
I suppose, yeah, but just taking advantage of what life offers me. When there's nothing to do, when I don't have any way of managing, you get depressed. I've had long periods of depression, not knowing when the next anything is going to come along.

00:35:06 Speaker_08
But in my dotage, I realized that something always did, something always does, something always will. You just keep marching. You just don't go jumping out of windows or doing something that's going to get you in a slammer just to eat.

00:35:22 Speaker_08
So now I am now hooked on this boat. I go into New York for some reason. And while I'm there, I go to a bookstore and I get a book on sailing, not tying. And while I'm there, I go to an audition for an off-Broadway play.

00:35:40 Speaker_08
This is the one you don't want to say. Yeah, yeah. And I audition, and the guy says, well, thank you very much. And I go back to the show. A couple of weeks, they call. They say, would you come and audition again?

00:35:54 Speaker_08
So, I get on the trailways and I go in our audition again. They said, well, thank you very much. I really appreciate you coming back. And back in the store, a week or so later, I said, would you mind auditioning again?

00:36:07 Speaker_07
Oh, my God.

00:36:08 Speaker_08
The director of Slow Playhouse, a guy named Jim Leahy. See that? Remember this yet? It's incredible.

00:36:14 Speaker_02
Yeah, it's good.

00:36:15 Speaker_08
You've already listed more names than I currently hold in my head. He says, what? They want you to come in? No, no. Listen, I want you to be here for my fall season. Tell him no." So I told him, no. He said, you got the job. Yeah, yeah, right.

00:36:29 Speaker_08
You learn these lessons, right? Right. So here I am now in an off-Broadway play, and we do the play. In the opening night, I meet Jeff Hunter. He says, you're pretty good.

00:36:43 Speaker_08
Would it be all right with you if I recommended you for certain things, for some jobs or something? Shit, yeah. Never had an agent. Then one of the producers of that play said, I was one of the ones who wouldn't hire you.

00:36:58 Speaker_08
And you're better than I thought. I'm going to put you on Broadway.

00:37:02 Speaker_06
Wow.

00:37:04 Speaker_08
And he did. Now, this is the way it happened. I got another job off-Broadway, Manhattan Theater Club. Nice little play. We got pretty good response. I got great response.

00:37:16 Speaker_08
So that guy who was producer of that play was going to take this little play to Broadway, which they did, for which I got kudos, playing a wino, a drunk. The play might have lasted a week. That's it. Well, they just produced it right out of existence.

00:37:34 Speaker_08
It wasn't there on the stage like it was when we had it off-Broadway. The only cast member that was the same was me. That lasted about a week, but I got good press. Now, I'm on the New York scene.

00:37:47 Speaker_08
New York Magazine had a little section they used on the town. And there I was on the town. Oh, baby. That's cool. Great. It almost doesn't get better, right? It gets better. It did get better.

00:38:03 Speaker_02
Well, that's good.

00:38:04 Speaker_08
I like that answer. So now, here comes The Electric Company.

00:38:09 Speaker_02
Imani, you're too young to remember The Electric Company, right? It was a 71 to 75 PBS kids show, but it was a really fun and funky, very 70s kids show. It was Sesame Street. First one of those, really. Sesame Street was way before.

00:38:26 Speaker_08
Oh, my God. So it's been going forever. Ever. Electric Company was the government would fund experimental television. It succeeded.

00:38:35 Speaker_02
You didn't love that, though, right? Because of the subject matter or the pace of it. Terrified that I would become Captain Kangaroo. Right, of course. And you'd just been on Broadway and around town. That would have been really hard for me.

00:38:50 Speaker_02
I would be very nervous that it wasn't going to end well.

00:38:53 Speaker_08
What if it didn't end? If it didn't end, you would not go in a place like actors who I know really good actors, but they became spokesmen for a commercial. That's it.

00:39:05 Speaker_02
That's as far as you're going to go. And it was such a different time. It was so regimented and compartmentalized. And you couldn't do a commercial. And movie people couldn't be in TV. And TV people couldn't be in soap operas.

00:39:16 Speaker_02
And soap opera, it just never ended. Yeah. And I did it all. In that period from 71 until really 87, you have 16 years of doing a part in a movie, being on a show for a minute, doing the soap for two years. Okay, 87.

00:39:36 Speaker_02
Now, I just want to point out at this point, you're 50. Yeah, about. You do Street Smart with Christopher Reeve and Kathy Baker, and you get nominated for your first Academy Award. Wow. Yeah.

00:39:49 Speaker_02
So, I think you might have had this experience that a handful of people have, which is it took forever, and then there is whiplash. Was that a kind of whiplash? Like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I've just been cobbling together rent now for all these years.

00:40:03 Speaker_02
Now I'm in this thing and now we're going to the Academy Awards. It feels a little abrupt. No, it doesn't. It started 20 years before.

00:40:10 Speaker_07
It just felt like baby steps.

00:40:12 Speaker_02
Yeah. Well, you can have these different columns of luck in life, right? Yeah, oh yeah. You can be like very unlucky in some quadrant of your life and then be pretty lucky in some quadrant. I picked that one over baseline luck level.

00:40:26 Speaker_02
I'd rather have some spikes.

00:40:27 Speaker_08
I think if you keep moving, that's what happens. You step into a hole somewhere and you sink. But instead of giving up right then, you keep pushing.

00:40:36 Speaker_08
And I always tell youngsters, my kids, if you fall and you just lay there, people will come right past you. But if you fall and you struggle. Somebody's gonna give you a hand.

00:40:48 Speaker_02
That's really true. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:52 Speaker_07
If you're trying, someone will come help you.

00:40:54 Speaker_02
Yeah. That's really powerful. We don't hear that part of it. It's just get back up. But you're right. Struggling is another option. And it does elicit kindness and help.

00:41:03 Speaker_08
Sometimes you just can't get up by yourself. But that doesn't mean lie there saying, okay, this is it. It's not it, unless you say it's it. Keep pushing, keep trying. You'll always get a hand. Somebody will, something.

00:41:17 Speaker_07
Probably a woman.

00:41:18 Speaker_08
In my case.

00:41:21 Speaker_07
Exclusively.

00:41:24 Speaker_02
Okay, so then this isn't a stutter step. This is really the beginning of the very wild ride. The handful of people ride. 89's a crazy year. Glory comes out. Driving Miss Daisy.

00:41:37 Speaker_08
And Lean on Me? Yeah, all of that. Interesting thing for me in this wild ride was driving Miss Daisy and Street Smart came out same week. Oh, really? Yeah. So in the movies, I'm this pimp and on stage, I'm this old man. What a range there on display.

00:41:56 Speaker_02
That's lucky timing. There you go. Something will come along. You and I won't call it God, but something. Yeah, it's always you. Yeah, I like your take on God. Well, do I believe in God? Well, I believe man invented God, so yeah, I believe in me.

00:42:10 Speaker_02
Oh, I like that. You heard that somewhere. I know you. I've been paying attention. Why am I sitting here talking? I could do this whole thing. If you want to take a nap, just what, what a fucking year though.

00:42:23 Speaker_02
Glory, obviously five Oscar noms driving miss Daisy, nine Oscar noms, including best actor nomination for you. Lean on me is a huge, that's a crazy year. Yeah. How are, do you adjust to the notion of maybe having money going forward?

00:42:39 Speaker_02
Because that's now on the table in 1989. You're starting to probably reassess like, oh, I might actually have money now at 52 years old. You hadn't bought a house yet at 52, had you? No, I hadn't bought a house yet.

00:42:53 Speaker_02
Do you remember buying your first house?

00:42:55 Speaker_08
Apartment. in New York. Yeah, I had a friend who was in real estate doing pretty good. Now co-oping becomes possible in my building. So as a tenant, I could buy my six room apartment for $78,000. Oh my God. I don't have $78,000, but I am working.

00:43:17 Speaker_08
I go to a friend and say, I just need a quarter of that, if you could loan. He said, in essence, no, it won't be worth it. So eventually I bought the apartment. Instead of $78,000, I paid $230,000. Oh, bummer. Oh, three acts.

00:43:37 Speaker_07
Yeah, you were able to.

00:43:39 Speaker_02
And now it's worth 20x of that, probably.

00:43:41 Speaker_07
Now it's worth $20 million.

00:43:45 Speaker_02
OK, so it really takes off in 89. I just want to ask you about a couple of projects. One of them is Monica Nye's top five movie of all time. So we got to geek out for a second on that. But I do just want to talk about 92. That feels very special to me.

00:44:00 Speaker_02
Unforgiven. I didn't audition for that. Clint Eastwood called. Oh boy.

00:44:05 Speaker_06
That's a big moment.

00:44:05 Speaker_02
What's that feel like? Can I have the Eastwood? He wants me to do a Western with him? You're kidding me. I think people can have performances.

00:44:13 Speaker_02
They change something permanently where no matter what happens, I give D'Onofrio as a great example of this in Full Metal Jacket. It's like if you do that scene one time sitting on the toilet with your gun, it cannot be taken.

00:44:25 Speaker_02
For the rest of your life, people know, well, he can do anything. That's not to say we're going to give him anything to do, but we know he can do anything. And for me, Unforgiven for you is that, well, that's done on Morgan Freeman.

00:44:37 Speaker_02
That guy is a legend. That's like a legendary performance. The chemistry between you two is just that's the part of magic I like about movies. You just don't know. You could be best friends with somebody, have no sparkle on screen, right?

00:44:51 Speaker_02
And then you guys are strangers and you have this deep familiarity and understanding of who one another are and this acceptance and this nonjudgmental friendship, which is so pure and interesting.

00:45:02 Speaker_02
Could you feel when you were making the movie, this is a special thing, or did it feel like all the movies? Special to me.

00:45:08 Speaker_08
I'm on screen with Clint Eastwood.

00:45:12 Speaker_10
Yes! It's impossible.

00:45:14 Speaker_08
It doesn't get better. When I was a little boy, if you wanted to give me something for Christmas, give me a cat pistol and a rig. I was so good. I could shoot five guys.

00:45:27 Speaker_02
I practiced nonstop. I would be twirling, putting it in the holster, sideways. I was bad. Yeah, me too. No one was looking, but I thought I was a bad customer. You know, you're just practicing.

00:45:39 Speaker_02
You grew up and you got to play that with the ultimate guy who does that. And you got to be a bad motherfucker yourself, which is fun to play. Especially if you got beat up a lot in these schools.

00:45:47 Speaker_07
Yeah, it's a full circle.

00:45:49 Speaker_02
Directors. It sounds like you've been hit or miss with directors.

00:45:54 Speaker_08
Mostly hit. Miss only been a couple of times.

00:45:57 Speaker_02
I guess what I'm going for here is I'm guessing you must have liked how Clint directed.

00:46:03 Speaker_08
I loved the way Clint directs. He knows when he has what he needs and he moves on. And he knows it soon. He does not direct Atlas. He directs the movie. You come throwing your lines and where all the cables are on the floor.

00:46:18 Speaker_04
Yeah, right.

00:46:19 Speaker_08
As opposed to somebody like David Fincher.

00:46:22 Speaker_07
I have a feeling he's the opposite of that.

00:46:24 Speaker_08
He has a concept and they want you to be privy to that concept. So if you're privy to that concept and you will do your best to give him whatever it is he wants. That was what I got and my relationship developed with David.

00:46:40 Speaker_08
I know why you're asking me to do this. It's not like, okay, say it like this. He never said that, but I want light situations. So turn your head just as much.

00:46:50 Speaker_07
It's very technical.

00:46:51 Speaker_02
Yeah. That's how I would feel. If I knew the game plan and I understood it and agreed that that was worthwhile of an endeavor, I could play along. It's the, I'm not sure what I want. Why don't you keep doing things until you show me what I want?

00:47:07 Speaker_06
For the listener.

00:47:09 Speaker_02
Morgan just physically, yeah. That's the zone, right, that we hate.

00:47:14 Speaker_08
I can't stand it. They say, that was great. Let's do another. You know, just to see what happens. You know, the same thing is going to happen, dude. That's the truth of that moment for me, you know come out again, so that can be tough.

00:47:30 Speaker_08
Yeah younger directors They'll get into that situation.

00:47:34 Speaker_07
Well, cuz there's an insecurity for them. It's like if I don't have enough what if I didn't do it, right?

00:47:42 Speaker_02
Matt that version Monica. I'm almost mildly sympathetic to it's more the Entitled well, I have you we got it. I Let's see if you can come up with something on your own I hadn't thought of that's gonna be brilliant.

00:47:56 Speaker_02
That's just more like, I'm just gonna use you now into the ground. To rewrite my script? Yeah, that's the version I don't really like.

00:48:04 Speaker_08
Two people I really am nervous about trying to work with, and that's people who write and direct. And I just worked with one who writes and directs that I would jump off a cliff for. It's Taylor Sheridan. In Lioness?

00:48:18 Speaker_06
Yeah.

00:48:18 Speaker_08
He's just like, it's yours. You can think of anything you want to do, give it to me.

00:48:23 Speaker_02
I trust you and I'm open to the Morgan magic if you want to give it to me.

00:48:27 Speaker_08
I ring the Morgan magic. That's right. That's his attitude. You know, it's like, right on brother, right on. I'm here. And then I'm up there with these Ladies. Some bad apples. Yeah, such a terrific cast. Michael Kelly. Yeah, Nicole Kidman.

00:48:43 Speaker_08
I've always been in love with that woman since I first saw her.

00:48:46 Speaker_02
Do you remember the role for me? It was Days of Thunder. I was like, OK, I want her as a doctor for the rest of my life. OK, when you saw Unforgiven, you grew up watching these movies on Saturday.

00:48:59 Speaker_02
I hope you had that moment where you thought like, oh, god damn, I got in one of those.

00:49:02 Speaker_08
I gloryed in the whole experience. I was always on set. Days when I didn't have to work, I hung out with the Wranglers.

00:49:11 Speaker_07
Just wanted to be there.

00:49:12 Speaker_08
Yeah.

00:49:13 Speaker_02
Shawshank, 30th anniversary. Again, in the life story, the lessons you learn that just happened to you. This one's interesting. I point it out on the show all the time. Shawshank, for your average, if you ask them, was that a hit?

00:49:25 Speaker_02
They go, oh, it's gotta be an enormous hit, because every single person has seen this movie, and it's fucking great. And it wasn't a box office smash. It underperformed or probably scared some people initially.

00:49:40 Speaker_02
I'll tell you what happened with Shawshank.

00:49:43 Speaker_08
I saw this terrific movie. It was called Shemshunk.

00:49:47 Speaker_10
Oh, yeah.

00:49:50 Speaker_02
He has the same explanation as I have about Zathura.

00:49:53 Speaker_07
Oh, oh, oh.

00:49:55 Speaker_02
I was in this great movie Favreau directed called Zathura. It's a great movie. Not one fucking person was going to step up to the ticket counter and go, can I get a Zathura? They didn't know how to pronounce. They didn't want to try to say it out loud.

00:50:07 Speaker_02
Right. Kind of a middle-aged lady on an elevator.

00:50:10 Speaker_08
Oh, I just saw you in the Hudsucker reduction. No, the Hudsucker reduction, yeah.

00:50:18 Speaker_02
The hot sucker reduction.

00:50:20 Speaker_08
Oh my God. Well, gee, did you enjoy it?

00:50:25 Speaker_02
I want to see that. Where did you see it? I want to check that out. Oh, that's very funny. Now, did that one feel, how about this? You had just done Unforgiven, that's such a special movie, and it was received and rewarded as such.

00:50:37 Speaker_02
Shawshank, was it a little heartbreaking? Because again, of your performances, that to me is still in top three. They're not really heartbreaking for me. They're heartbreaking for the studio that put up all that money.

00:50:47 Speaker_02
But Darabond was a million takes director too. You weren't loving that vibe. That was a kind of tense set.

00:50:55 Speaker_06
Yeah.

00:50:55 Speaker_07
Also subject matter. I mean, I'm sure all of it added up.

00:50:58 Speaker_02
You're in a prison. I shot a movie in a prison. You underestimate what it's like to be just even shooting in a prison. After a few weeks, you're like, okay, novelty's worn off. I fucking hate it. I want to get out of here.

00:51:08 Speaker_08
I did a lot of prison movies. I was in Attica. I did the one with Robert Redford. Brubaker.

00:51:17 Speaker_02
Okay. The last movie I'm going to make you talk about. We could do this all day. You're in so many great movies. It's wild. You've been nominated a bazillion times, won several times. Monica and I love Seven. We love Seven. I watch seven once a year.

00:51:29 Speaker_07
And it holds up. It's still so smart and so good.

00:51:33 Speaker_02
I would hate acting with that technicality. Like it wouldn't be for me. I don't have the right disposition. So I applaud everyone that does it in the spirit of it because it's worth it. But I'll tell you the magic of that is the way they all hold up.

00:51:46 Speaker_02
They are masterpieces of composition and pacing and timing. The work is evident. It's such a great movie. How did you enjoy making that movie? What was it like working with this young, gorgeous Brad Pitt, young, gorgeous Gwyneth Paltrow?

00:52:01 Speaker_08
I really enjoyed working with David, because I so tuned to what he was after. It gave me a lot of leeway. Did you learn about your powers a little bit in that movie? Just a little bit.

00:52:14 Speaker_08
I also twisted my ankle so bad, running across the field there at the end. Oh, yeah, yeah. John Doe has the upper hand.

00:52:21 Speaker_07
Oh, you twisted your ankle doing that.

00:52:23 Speaker_08
Yeah, it was not like running on level ground. I sprained my ankle and then I think we did this shot seven or eight times. Of course. I stretched my tendon so badly. It's not back again. So my foot tends to roll over.

00:52:38 Speaker_02
I wonder if there's a tall guy thing too, though. That's my Achilles is my, it's rare, it's literal, but it's not because, but yeah, when you roll, and I remember my dad used to roll his all the time.

00:52:47 Speaker_02
And he said, basically, with a rolled ankle, you got to go a year without rolling it and it'll tighten back up. But until then, you can roll it so easy. Yeah.

00:52:54 Speaker_02
But I would say what you did in that movie and I asked, did it help you understand your own powers is if I'm you as an actor, the confidence I need to commit to that performance and go, I'm never going to be showy.

00:53:06 Speaker_02
I'm not going to be loud and exciting. I'm going to force you to lean closer to hear what I'm saying. That takes a ton of confidence. Did you have any anxiety while you're doing it? Like, I hope this works.

00:53:20 Speaker_08
No. When did I feel anxious about work? On stage. The only time I had a part that I knew I couldn't do, I tried to do Othello. And I've asked a few actors, did you ever manage to get that? No. That's the one that, oh, that's interesting.

00:53:42 Speaker_08
I've seen one actor play Othello and get it, nail it, and that was Laurence Olivier.

00:53:47 Speaker_06
Oh, wow.

00:53:48 Speaker_07
Yep. Yep.

00:53:49 Speaker_02
That tells you a lot about how hard it is. Yeah. Only Laurence Olivier nailed it.

00:53:53 Speaker_08
I walk out on stage opening evening, and this is outside in Texas, in Dallas, at the Dallas Civic Light Opera. And I walk out on stage in this costume, and somebody yells, sing, Purple Haze! Oh, jeez. Oh, Jesus. My God.

00:54:13 Speaker_07
Oh no.

00:54:15 Speaker_08
That was it.

00:54:15 Speaker_07
What is it about that role you think that just makes it impossible?

00:54:19 Speaker_08
I don't know what it is that makes it impossible. I'm not sat and disgusted with any other actors. Ask Jimmy Jones, because he's done everything. I've done it five times, and I still haven't pulled it off. It's like Moby Dick.

00:54:39 Speaker_02
Yeah. I almost wonder if in a boxing way, if you're defeated by it, you want to give it another shot.

00:54:45 Speaker_08
Yeah, I know I can beat this guy.

00:54:46 Speaker_02
Yeah, I know I have it in me. I know I can. But something you were smart. You're like, I don't have an Emmy to beat Othello. I'm going to let it be the one experience. OK, last movie, just because I'm curious how you got on.

00:54:58 Speaker_02
Did you have fun doing Bucket List? How did you get on with Jack Nicholson? Let me tell you, for my money, Morgan, present company excluded. But for my money, when you watch Departed, you go, wow, this is about everyone.

00:55:10 Speaker_02
That's great doing it all in one movie. I go like, who am I most going to want to look at in a two shot? in a wide. Nicholson is as great as, I mean, what an attractive human being. Did he deliver? Oh, wonderful. You're smiling.

00:55:25 Speaker_02
We're getting a nod and a smile.

00:55:27 Speaker_08
He's Jack. I met him prior and told him I had to give him my left testicle.

00:55:34 Speaker_02
I might give the whole package up.

00:55:37 Speaker_08
He was asked if he'd do it. And he said, send me the script. I sent him the script. I said, yeah, let's do it. So there we were, me and Jack Nicholson.

00:55:46 Speaker_02
Oh, man.

00:55:47 Speaker_07
It's also so funny to me that the bucket list was invented from the movie, and now it's just a ubiquitous phrase that everyone uses.

00:55:53 Speaker_08
Yeah.

00:55:54 Speaker_07
It's crazy.

00:55:55 Speaker_08
Works. I'll tell you, other than Clint, I had another icon, another idol. That was Gregory Peck. Interesting. Why? Well, all the things I'd seen him in, nothing ever came up to Moby Dick. I read Moby Dick some time ago.

00:56:12 Speaker_08
And that movie was every step in the book. They got it right. And he was awesome. First I saw him, we were at one of those award things in Hollywood.

00:56:23 Speaker_08
I had a seat kind of on the aisle and he was coming up the aisle from the stage and I jumped up and knelt down.

00:56:30 Speaker_06
And he said, get up.

00:56:32 Speaker_08
Get up. And then later on, I got a call from, I'm doing this library reader. I get, you know, actors to come and read short stories. Would you do that for you? Hell, jump out of an airplane. I'll read a phone book out loud for you. Whatever.

00:56:54 Speaker_08
So we got conversational.

00:56:56 Speaker_02
But was Jack in your list as well? Oh, yeah. When you were acting with him, did it fuck you up ever? Did you sometimes go like, oh, wow, I'm in a scene with Jack Nicholson? Would you get self-aware of what you were experiencing?

00:57:08 Speaker_08
No, when we were working, we were working. I work. But then I go home and I go, Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah, yeah. Jack Nicholson.

00:57:18 Speaker_07
Yeah, but he was probably saying the same thing. It's a similar situation for him, I'm sure.

00:57:24 Speaker_02
Well, I don't know if Jack has that. I don't think so.

00:57:28 Speaker_07
I don't know.

00:57:30 Speaker_02
I like that attitude you got there. It's nice. It's generous.

00:57:33 Speaker_07
I think it could be definitely true. I mean, maybe not him, but everyone else then on earth.

00:57:37 Speaker_08
A lot of people I get that kind of response from.

00:57:40 Speaker_02
Yeah.

00:57:40 Speaker_08
If I'm working with somebody that I hold that high up, to me, it's a ride along. We ride together. You take your run. I'm in it. I get it. So here comes mine. I just want to compliment what you're doing.

00:57:54 Speaker_02
Yeah. How have you done in the past with other, like, strong male? Is it easy for you to coexist? Easy. Strong males aren't doing anything but acting.

00:58:02 Speaker_06
That's the pull quote.

00:58:07 Speaker_02
That's the truth. Strong males aren't doing anything but acting.

00:58:10 Speaker_06
God, that's so true.

00:58:12 Speaker_02
Oh, boy. Yeah. Once in a while, we lift something heavy, though. That's right. Well, yeah. And then we're not needed for a very long time.

00:58:21 Speaker_08
Every now and then, you have to lift something heavy.

00:58:24 Speaker_02
That's right. Or you got to be tall. Once in a blue moon, I need to be tall for somebody. I justify my existence for a couple of weeks. Can you reach that for me? Yes, I can. OK, let's talk about Lioness. Season two is upon us. This is Taylor Sheridan.

00:58:40 Speaker_02
And as we said, Nicole Kidman, Michael Kelly, Zoe Saldana. And now you're playing secretary of state. So you've pretty much now played almost every member of government, I think, at this point. You're getting close.

00:58:53 Speaker_08
Yeah. Presidents. Gotta say use the plural there.

00:58:57 Speaker_06
Not many folks can say that yet.

00:59:01 Speaker_02
Which time was it that I was playing the president?

00:59:03 Speaker_08
That was the third time I played the president. And here's Secretary of State. I've been head of the CIA. Interesting story there. Tom Clancy heard that I was going to do part as a deputy assistant to the CIA.

00:59:20 Speaker_08
And he said, oh, if it's that guy, make him the head.

00:59:23 Speaker_07
Yeah. Right.

00:59:26 Speaker_08
You're so close.

00:59:27 Speaker_07
Thank you very much. You got promoted.

00:59:30 Speaker_02
Yeah, just like that. So Taylor's got a good thing going, right?

00:59:35 Speaker_08
I can't imagine. I'm almost certain he has a lot of stuff on the shelf, stuff that he has written, because he's one of those guys who write, that's what he does. I don't care if he was washing dishes to make a living, he was writing.

00:59:50 Speaker_08
And this stuff is on his shelf, a lot of it. He is so prolific.

00:59:55 Speaker_02
Yeah, so he had Yellowstone, then he had two spinoffs. 1823 and 1921, I think, or something like that, yeah. 1883 and 1923. Okay, great. And then you've got mayor of- Mayor of Kingstown. The king of Tulsa, lioness. Jeez.

01:00:16 Speaker_02
It's like impossible, the amount of writing this human does in one year. So did it start with a meeting with you and Taylor? Yeah, we Zoomed. Taylor, if you ever want to talk to you.

01:00:26 Speaker_08
Okay. I'm free. I'm free.

01:00:31 Speaker_06
Right.

01:00:33 Speaker_08
So he said the right thing. He wooed you and off to Mallorca to work.

01:00:39 Speaker_02
Is that where you shot? That's when you shot the first season. No way. Yeah, man. Oh, come on. I'm telling you. Oh, my God. And were you sailing down there in Mallorca? No, no, no, no. I quit sailing. I got hurt in 2008. That's one of my questions for you.

01:00:55 Speaker_02
There's a very weird riddle within you getting hurt in 2008. You were driving a 1997 Nissan Maxima.

01:01:03 Speaker_08
Was it?

01:01:04 Speaker_02
Yeah. Morgan, what in the fuck is going on? It's 2008 and you're driving a 97 Nissan Maxima. That's a nine-year-old Nissan Maxima.

01:01:14 Speaker_08
Wrong place, wrong time.

01:01:17 Speaker_02
I'm more struck by the notion that you're driving a nine-year-old Nissan, and you've won Academy Awards, and you're rich. Wasn't my car. Oh, well, there is the explanation. You can understand why I was like, why is Morgan in this car?

01:01:31 Speaker_08
That was my main takeaway, other than you were hurt. I really could not tell you why. And when they did my blood workup, they said, well, you didn't have a lot of alcohol. So it wasn't that. What happens was, I think I just passed out.

01:01:49 Speaker_08
They put a placemaker in me after that.

01:01:52 Speaker_02
Oh, interesting. Yeah. So maybe you had some heart fibrillation or something.

01:01:57 Speaker_08
Something, a fib, and just went. Oh, scary. And tore that car up.

01:02:04 Speaker_02
I mean, relatively unscathed with how bad the accident was. It was very bad, right? Rolled the car over. Yeah, I think it tumbled. Oof. And you ended up hurting your hand pretty bad. I broke my arm. The humerus?

01:02:15 Speaker_08
The big bone up there? Up here, yeah. And so there's a plate in it, and there's a pin in my elbow. It's nerve damage. I have no tissue.

01:02:24 Speaker_06
Oh, wow.

01:02:24 Speaker_08
No nerves. And you have fibromyalgia now? It isn't fibromyalgia. It's not. I looked that up. It's more neuro, like neuralgia.

01:02:33 Speaker_07
Okay. So you had to quit sailing?

01:02:35 Speaker_08
Yeah. The last time I was on my boat, I couldn't park it. Had a 43-foot catch. Went out with friends one day and I couldn't get my boat back into the slip. That's a humbling experience. It is very humbling.

01:02:50 Speaker_02
Heartbreaking. I walked away. What about bringing a fucking 16-year-old kid on board? You get him out when it's time to park. Can't we do that? $49 a week, like you're back at the... I'm so much a solo guy. I don't like that.

01:03:04 Speaker_07
That's sad.

01:03:05 Speaker_02
Shit happens, as we say. Yeah. Okay, so you meet with Taylor. It goes well. Season one goes well. You're back. Was it hard for you to commit to doing TV?

01:03:15 Speaker_08
No, it's not much different. There's a camera, there are lights, there's script and actors. I think so.

01:03:22 Speaker_07
And TV's awesome now.

01:03:23 Speaker_02
Yeah, what are you watching more of? Are you watching TV or going out to the movies? You're probably like the rest of us watching TV. I'm watching TV.

01:03:30 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:03:31 Speaker_08
And it's phenomenal, right? Yeah. It's hard to go to the movies for someone with a high profile.

01:03:36 Speaker_07
Can you go anywhere without getting... I stay home. Yeah.

01:03:41 Speaker_08
There are restaurants around where I live. They'll just make way for me to make room. They'll put me in a special place.

01:03:47 Speaker_02
You did go back to Mississippi when you had the option. And I did wonder, is it overwhelming being famous in an area where it's more exciting to see famous people?

01:03:57 Speaker_08
No. Very quickly get used to the fact that you're back home. And they're respectful of that? Very respectful of that. You can't go into Charleston and say, where does Morgan Freeman live and be told. Oh, that's nice. So what's happening in season two?

01:04:11 Speaker_08
You've got the emotional thing that the lioness has to go through. I think that's the heart of these episodes. These women who

01:04:20 Speaker_08
They go into a situation where they've befriended somebody, some other, some woman, a wife, girlfriend, sister or something, get to be close enough that she's in on what's going on, and then they have to betray that.

01:04:35 Speaker_02
For your country. Now, when you decide to work, A, the appetite is impressive. How are you deciding when and why you'll work? Do you, like, make decisions, I'm done, and then you make another decision, I'm back?

01:04:47 Speaker_08
I've not made that decision, I'm done. I haven't even decided, I'm thinking about it, you know, it's like, holy cow, do I want to keep going? And the answer, of course, is, yeah. Can you get out of bed? Yeah, I can get out of bed. Then go to work.

01:05:04 Speaker_08
All right. Well, I have one last... I'm saying it now.

01:05:08 Speaker_07
This obsession with your voice, when that first started, were you like, what's going on here? Or were you like, yeah, I get it.

01:05:15 Speaker_08
I think I sort of got it because when I was doing the electric company, it got more developed. I'm listening to myself now in earphones, and you can do stuff with it. Now, when I was in school, LACC, that's how my voice got put in place.

01:05:35 Speaker_08
Once it's in place, you know how to help it out.

01:05:38 Speaker_07
Play with it.

01:05:39 Speaker_02
Yeah.

01:05:40 Speaker_07
It's a gift.

01:05:41 Speaker_02
Yeah. Well, this has been such an honor to talk to you again. Seven's our religion. We'll be watching that.

01:05:47 Speaker_07
I'm going to watch it tonight now that we're talking about it.

01:05:49 Speaker_02
All right. Yeah. What a performance. You're such an anchor of that whole experience. You're great on Lioness, of course. Lioness is super exciting. Great cast. That's out October 27th. Season two starts on Paramount Plus. This has just been a delight.

01:06:05 Speaker_02
I know that promoting is a thankless and boring and never ending job. So I feel very lucky that we got so much of your time.

01:06:12 Speaker_08
Thank you.

01:06:13 Speaker_02
Thank you so much. It's such an honor to meet you. Good to talk to you. Yeah, you too.

01:06:16 Speaker_08
Oh, should I say listen?

01:06:17 Speaker_02
Well, you could say all of it.

01:06:19 Speaker_07
All right.

01:06:20 Speaker_02
Well, be well and good luck. And you too, man.

01:06:22 Speaker_08
Be well. Both of you, Monica. Yeah. And what is that over there?

01:06:26 Speaker_02
That's a Rob.

01:06:28 Speaker_08
That's a Rob. OK.

01:06:30 Speaker_02
They grow those in Chicago.

01:06:34 Speaker_04
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert.

01:06:38 Speaker_05
If you dare.

01:06:44 Speaker_09
I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

01:06:53 Speaker_07
Do I have a booger on my face?

01:06:55 Speaker_02
Unfortunately not.

01:06:56 Speaker_07
Thank God.

01:06:57 Speaker_02
Where did you think this booger resided?

01:06:59 Speaker_07
Like right here. Okay. I felt like I felt it.

01:07:03 Speaker_02
Mid-gap between lip and nose?

01:07:06 Speaker_07
Cupid's bow.

01:07:07 Speaker_02
Wait, is that called Cupid's bow?

01:07:09 Speaker_07
Right here, this is your Cupid's bow.

01:07:11 Speaker_02
Oh, I don't really have one. I see people with a really pronounced Cupid's bow and I'm really envious.

01:07:15 Speaker_07
Everyone has one.

01:07:17 Speaker_02
But of varying.

01:07:18 Speaker_07
Sure.

01:07:19 Speaker_02
Intensities, yeah?

01:07:20 Speaker_07
Yeah. I had a dream last night that I had a booger on my face.

01:07:24 Speaker_02
Oh.

01:07:25 Speaker_07
And so now I feel like it was a premonition.

01:07:27 Speaker_02
What setting were you in? Was it high stakes?

01:07:29 Speaker_07
I think it was. A date or a- I've had a few, okay.

01:07:33 Speaker_02
Okay.

01:07:34 Speaker_07
I wasn't gonna talk about this.

01:07:35 Speaker_02
But now you are.

01:07:38 Speaker_07
I feel bad because it involves a previous guest, but it was a dream.

01:07:44 Speaker_02
It was a dream. Okay. Let's just be very clear. It was a dream. This didn't happen in the interview.

01:07:49 Speaker_07
It did not happen in real life. I guess I've been having a lot of dreams where I'm embarrassed by my body, I guess.

01:08:01 Speaker_02
Okay. Do you think this was a seed set by learning people have OCD about smelling? Do you think this is where this all jumped off?

01:08:10 Speaker_07
Oh my, I mean, it's possible because the dream is about that.

01:08:14 Speaker_02
Okay.

01:08:15 Speaker_07
But the booger, not so much, but maybe, maybe it's a snowball effect.

01:08:19 Speaker_02
It's a smelly booger too. It is the winter. Yeah.

01:08:21 Speaker_07
Okay. So I had a dream a while ago that I saw Jake Gyllenhaal somewhere.

01:08:29 Speaker_09
Oh sure. Oh fun. This is great.

01:08:33 Speaker_07
And I feel like there was multiple people there.

01:08:36 Speaker_02
But really, most importantly, JG. Yeah, JG. JGs. Jgers.

01:08:41 Speaker_07
We were flirting.

01:08:43 Speaker_02
Of course, that's what you do.

01:08:44 Speaker_07
And it was going really well.

01:08:48 Speaker_02
Yeah, leading in a good direction.

01:08:51 Speaker_07
Yeah, it was like, it was frisky and it was bantering. It was electric.

01:08:56 Speaker_02
About to be turned on to a full boil once you got that bedroom door closed. That's right. Yes.

01:09:02 Speaker_07
And I, even my non-dream Monica was like there somewhere and she was excited about the rest of the dream. Okay. Right, right, right. Like where it was leading. And so we got to the bedroom. Oh my God, wow. And it was so hot.

01:09:17 Speaker_02
Oh wow, you got all the way to the bedroom in your dream? Yes. Okay.

01:09:22 Speaker_07
And we were making out, we were undressing.

01:09:27 Speaker_02
Heavy petting? Yeah. Okay, very heavy.

01:09:29 Speaker_07
Extremely heavy.

01:09:30 Speaker_02
Okay, extra heavy petting. Like too heavy actually.

01:09:33 Speaker_07
And then he, this is like really, this is really bad. But it's a dream. But it is a dream.

01:09:38 Speaker_02
It's just a dream. Don't take this out of context.

01:09:40 Speaker_07
It's a dream. If anyone's listening with kids in the car, this is not appropriate.

01:09:45 Speaker_02
Earmuffs moment?

01:09:46 Speaker_07
Yeah, it's not appropriate for kids. He was going down on me.

01:09:49 Speaker_09
Okay, he went down there. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

01:09:52 Speaker_07
And he made a horrible face. Uh-oh.

01:09:56 Speaker_02
Yeah. Oh, wow. Yep, yep. Oh, wow. And he's so nice. If his face betrayed him, it was really something, because he has a lot of manners.

01:10:07 Speaker_07
He does, and he was being, and it was, he was so nice the whole day, the whole day. He was so.

01:10:14 Speaker_02
Effusive.

01:10:16 Speaker_07
So cute and sweet and lovely. And then he like made this face and I. Can you make the face that he made? It was like.

01:10:23 Speaker_02
Okay.

01:10:23 Speaker_07
Yeah, it was pretty extreme.

01:10:24 Speaker_02
It was like you hit him or. No, it was more like. Okay.

01:10:28 Speaker_07
More of a. Yeah, and I, I said something like, Is everything okay? Or maybe I ignored it and then like he kind of tried again and then he and then he was like started like getting angry about the smell.

01:10:50 Speaker_02
Okay. Hold on a second though. Is this post scene Anna Kendrick's movie?

01:10:56 Speaker_07
That's a good question.

01:10:58 Speaker_02
Cause Pete Holmes turns. He's like so nice. So nice. So nice. Turns. Well, do you want to leave? That's what he says with that look on his face.

01:11:05 Speaker_07
Maybe, I don't remember the timing.

01:11:07 Speaker_02
Okay, the timeline is a little hazy.

01:11:08 Speaker_07
It's possible, it's possible.

01:11:09 Speaker_02
Okay.

01:11:10 Speaker_07
So yeah, he turns and he becomes angry and mean and I said, you're being mean. Oh, you said that?

01:11:15 Speaker_06
That's very vulnerable.

01:11:20 Speaker_07
Look, I don't feel that I have a smell.

01:11:26 Speaker_02
Okay, and is Sue?

01:11:27 Speaker_07
I mean, I guess people have smells, but I, you know, I was like, maybe I do. Maybe I do. And I just not known this. And obviously no one is telling me and I can't smell myself. So, oh my God. And then that was the dream.

01:11:44 Speaker_02
Like it was just horrible. Did he march out? Did he call you any names?

01:11:49 Speaker_07
I don't think he caught me, I do think he said like, ew, this is disgusting. He didn't give any action items, but he did, it was horrible. And then I've been scared ever since.

01:12:01 Speaker_02
Sure, it's a very scarring dream, traumatic. I'm having a new, it's not like this hasn't occurred to me, but right now I'm having a real moment where I'm recognizing

01:12:10 Speaker_02
What I feel bad for men about is they have this constant anxiety about their erection.

01:12:16 Speaker_02
You talk to men and it's, I have had so many friends over the years where like the mental battle going on is like, I couldn't, we were kissing and I didn't get hard. And then, and then in their mind that they can't get hard with this person.

01:12:28 Speaker_02
And now it's just this like mental battle they're dealing with nonstop.

01:12:31 Speaker_07
Yes.

01:12:32 Speaker_02
And the equivalent of your hardness is that the fear that it might smell. It must be really stressful in the way that an erection is stressful. And let's just say, well, how do I say this politely? People smell. Well, just the nature of the apparatus.

01:12:49 Speaker_02
It's gonna have a smell. If it'd be intimate with me and involve spreading my butt cheeks and going into my...

01:12:55 Speaker_02
You know, I would live in D D I think it would take me out of dating altogether, to be honest, unless it was like every single time we were intimate, I went into the shower and I scrub, scrub, scrub my bottom hole.

01:13:10 Speaker_02
If that was like part of the, the repertoire of services I offered, I would be, I would have a lot of stress about it. Okay, listen, the butthole- I'm not comparing that to that, but I am comparing that.

01:13:22 Speaker_07
I'm about to compare it. The butthole slash anus is actually a good equivalent because even if you washed it,

01:13:33 Speaker_02
Right? Let's say the outside, you watch the outside, but then what can you even say you were extra exploratory and you just even got your finger in there a little bit and clean like the next inch out.

01:13:45 Speaker_07
Don't do that with your vagina.

01:13:46 Speaker_02
Okay. I have no advice on the vagina. I think your butthole is fine to do that.

01:13:51 Speaker_07
I don't know.

01:13:51 Speaker_02
When I'm in the shower washing, I'm not your finger up there. I don't want to say that out loud, but I'm just, let's just say I don't just stop at like, the packaging, the wrapping.

01:14:04 Speaker_07
You don't just go like this.

01:14:06 Speaker_02
No, I attempt to like really clean it.

01:14:08 Speaker_07
Does it ever make you poop?

01:14:10 Speaker_02
No, not, well, fingers crossed. Knock on wood.

01:14:16 Speaker_07
Okay. Anyway, but so even if you get a little bit though, you're not really like.

01:14:21 Speaker_02
You need to go about six inches up into your colon to ensure that there's nothing going to

01:14:26 Speaker_07
If you have feces in your butt.

01:14:29 Speaker_02
Okay, fecal matter. It's still not time to lift your earmuffs off your child if you're in the car.

01:14:35 Speaker_07
If you have fecal matter in your anus. Let's say bottom. In your bottom. Let's keep it clean.

01:14:43 Speaker_07
Yeah, it'll probably still smell so it is a good comp because you can clean The outside of your vagina, although I have heard You're really not supposed to clean it with soap and I've heard like all growing up They were pitching very hard all day long on some on daytime television summer's eve

01:15:04 Speaker_02
That's a douche. It's got a better name than that. Yeah, I haven't and haven't washed and I wash feminine wash.

01:15:12 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:15:13 Speaker_02
Summer's Eve. It was on all the time. This is it felt like this was a product that was mandatory. If you were. I know. And a woman in the 80s.

01:15:19 Speaker_07
That's been not to disparage any brands, but that's been debunked.

01:15:23 Speaker_02
I've heard that that is can be not a good mix for your floor.

01:15:26 Speaker_07
Exactly. So really, you're making it worse.

01:15:29 Speaker_02
Oh, God. My heart goes out at the. It truly does.

01:15:35 Speaker_10
You're like, fuck, I put it on summer's eve. I think I can do it. I mean, how stressful.

01:15:42 Speaker_07
I know. So now I'm like stressed and I think I'm going to take your approach and I'm just not ever going to date.

01:15:49 Speaker_02
That's going to, I don't think, I think you need to get a friend.

01:15:53 Speaker_07
To smell it?

01:15:54 Speaker_02
Yeah. Cause I think it's in your head. I'm married, so I can't offer, but, and so is Rob, but maybe a close friend, you know, Jess, That would be a great starting point, because he's not going to get mixed feelings after he does it.

01:16:09 Speaker_07
That's fair.

01:16:10 Speaker_02
And you look at him as a, well, I don't want to say brother because you don't want that.

01:16:13 Speaker_07
Yeah, ew.

01:16:17 Speaker_02
Ew. I just don't know what else to recommend. My hunch is this is in your head. And so I think you need an extra set eyes on this. IE nose on this.

01:16:26 Speaker_07
Yeah. But who, most people are probably not going to pull a JG, a dream JG and like make a bad face. They're going to lie because of course you're going to lie. Cause what to do.

01:16:37 Speaker_02
Listen, I was in that situation when I was younger, it would, it would burble up. And of course I never, I never was like, I shouldn't have even done that. Just the thought of doing... Wait, let's try this, okay? I'm coming up, and I go... Oh.

01:16:59 Speaker_02
And I just do that really quick.

01:17:00 Speaker_07
Stop! Also, what? Like, this does anything. This is such a dumb move.

01:17:08 Speaker_02
Oh, I like that when people signal something stinks, they double down. They'll pinch their nose like, ugh. And then they go, ugh. Like if they really want you to know it smells for some reason, this isn't sufficient. And this wouldn't be sufficient.

01:17:20 Speaker_02
You gotta go, oh, don't go by that porta potty. Oh fuck, I'm really heartbroken for anyone out there that's just panicked about it. Because I'm sure, I'm sure in your mind, it's something that's not. I want to say this from the outside.

01:17:39 Speaker_07
Yeah. I want to know.

01:17:40 Speaker_02
I've never smelt BO on you. That sounds like a, seems like a good starter and I don't, I've never smelt bad breath on you.

01:17:47 Speaker_07
Thank you.

01:17:48 Speaker_02
So I I'm, I'm inclined to think this is all in your head.

01:17:51 Speaker_07
It's the same.

01:17:52 Speaker_02
Here's a new item. Shark tank.

01:17:54 Speaker_07
Okay.

01:17:55 Speaker_02
It's like a stick, like a chemical stick, and you wave it, and then it impartially and objectively just says whether there's, it can detect whether there's a smell on some scale.

01:18:12 Speaker_07
Okay. Now, what if it's just, it smells bad?

01:18:17 Speaker_02
Well, then I think we go to the GYN. You never say G-Y-N, O-B-G-Y-N. I wanted to drop the O-B, you don't need an obstetrician in this situation. So you go to the G-Y-N. Then I think you go to the gyno and you go, I think I need help down there.

01:18:35 Speaker_02
What can be done? What does science really have to offer us? Would that be too, that shouldn't be too embarrassing with a gynecologist.

01:18:41 Speaker_07
That's gotta be what they're- It's not too embarrassing, but I just don't think there's much to do. There's some like, there's like foods you can eat that help, I think, like temporarily.

01:18:50 Speaker_07
But I don't know, I'm just of the opinion that you get the smells you get. Like you said, BO, you get what you get and you do get upset. Because as you said, some people have stronger BO.

01:19:02 Speaker_07
And of course that has, you know, there's deodorant and there's stuff.

01:19:05 Speaker_02
I have no business guessing this, but I just don't think you're having. This issue. I think this is all from a dream. But we've had some lovers. Have you detected any of them?

01:19:15 Speaker_07
No, but I, but they're not dream JG. Like this was, this was high stakes and the world. Well, not that it was high stakes. It was, it was my, I think it was my brain telling me.

01:19:28 Speaker_02
No, it's your brain telling you you're scared of that. That's just one more thing you think of that could be a disaster.

01:19:35 Speaker_07
I have a follow-up question, and sorry if this gets you in trouble.

01:19:39 Speaker_02
I might elect to not answer it with that set up, but go ahead. But you will.

01:19:42 Speaker_07
I'm gonna ask you to speak on behalf of most men.

01:19:45 Speaker_02
Well, I love doing that. I rarely do this.

01:19:49 Speaker_07
I rarely give you permission for this. Do you think it's, a deterrent for real? Or do you think people like, look, think about all the people in this world who are married.

01:20:02 Speaker_02
Yeah. Or just in relationships.

01:20:04 Speaker_07
In relationships. But I'm saying married, like you're in it, you're not getting out.

01:20:07 Speaker_02
Right.

01:20:08 Speaker_07
And I have to imagine that there's a varying degree of odor among all the people.

01:20:18 Speaker_06
Yeah.

01:20:19 Speaker_07
So some people are with odorous vulvas and vaginas and uteruses.

01:20:27 Speaker_02
I think the fallopians are odorless. Were you going to go as far as fallopians?

01:20:31 Speaker_07
No, everyone knows those don't have a smell. So, I mean, people are obviously either fine with it or they don't smell it or they're just like, fuck it, I don't care. You get used to it. Like, what is it?

01:20:42 Speaker_02
OK, so let's start with something that's very interesting, I think, is we know people with terrible breath.

01:20:48 Speaker_07
Right.

01:20:49 Speaker_02
And they have partners that don't seem to care at all. So I think there can be like, I don't think it's as objective as you smell across the board to everybody.

01:20:58 Speaker_07
Right.

01:20:59 Speaker_02
Because I think I see people that are in partnerships and the people smell and they don't seem to care or know. And I don't think they smell it. because they would address it.

01:21:08 Speaker_02
Like if Kristen reeked like BO everywhere we went, I'd go, babe, when people hug you, their shirts smell like your armpits afterwards.

01:21:17 Speaker_07
Okay, but what about when you enter the relationship? Forget, now you're married, so yeah, you're like, baby, we gotta do this, but what about when you enter, is it a deterrent? Like if she stunk, not just her vagina, let's just say she stunk.

01:21:31 Speaker_02
Yeah, I mean, how far down the road would you get? I don't know. Right. That's hard to say. Like you're asking me the moment we got married. Well, I'm in pretty deep at that point already. I love her and we own a home together.

01:21:43 Speaker_02
But would we have gotten to that point if she stank?

01:21:46 Speaker_07
Exactly.

01:21:48 Speaker_02
I would love to say I'm a good enough person, but I don't think so. I would way rather, I'm more sensitive to snows, to smells than am visual. Yeah, I would be way better off with someone that you would think is unattractive, but smell great.

01:22:05 Speaker_07
Same.

01:22:05 Speaker_02
Yeah. That's why it's a legit fear, because it's powerful. Smells are very powerful. But again, some people don't care about smells. I'll be somewhere and it stinks. And I'm like, is everyone? And a lot of people are like, no, I don't smell.

01:22:17 Speaker_02
It smells like a fucking sewer main broke. No. So I don't know whatever your, your DNA is.

01:22:23 Speaker_07
Yeah. It's a pharaoh. It's also pheromones.

01:22:25 Speaker_02
Yes.

01:22:27 Speaker_07
So I guess it's, wow. It's really teach teaches on, I guess it just wasn't the right, it wasn't the right match with dream JG.

01:22:36 Speaker_03
I think men are appreciative enough to be down there too that they'll overlook.

01:22:41 Speaker_06
That's what I was sort of wondering.

01:22:43 Speaker_03
I think pretty bad for it to be an issue. Great distinction.

01:22:47 Speaker_02
That's what I was asking. Because I think a lot of people might think, oh, just smell of like sweat and I don't know what we'd even call it. Is it bad? No, there's smells down there that are very appealing to us.

01:23:02 Speaker_02
So there's a whole suite of smells that are still positive.

01:23:07 Speaker_07
Okay.

01:23:08 Speaker_02
You know what I'm saying?

01:23:08 Speaker_07
But they're still pungent?

01:23:10 Speaker_02
Well, no, like you've even said this, like when you've smelled a hot guy, it's just slight BO.

01:23:16 Speaker_07
Yeah, I like it.

01:23:17 Speaker_02
You like it.

01:23:18 Speaker_07
Well, it's very specific.

01:23:21 Speaker_02
Yeah, there's just like, there's a spectrum of it that you find, you notice, oh, that's got a smell, but also you don't mind it, you like it.

01:23:29 Speaker_03
And the association with you're about to get vagina.

01:23:33 Speaker_02
I think that's a great point, Rob.

01:23:36 Speaker_07
Thank you, Rob. That is what I was asking.

01:23:37 Speaker_02
And I also think some guys are, they want it bad enough that they could definitely deal with it because they want the ultimate thing bad enough.

01:23:45 Speaker_07
And that's where I'm asking you to speak on most men.

01:23:47 Speaker_02
Most men do. But if someone has all the options in the world, like Jagers, Probably the bar goes up a little bit. If I'm just being totally honest and guessing.

01:23:58 Speaker_07
Should we call him and ask?

01:24:01 Speaker_02
J.J. 's hypothetical.

01:24:02 Speaker_07
Oh my gosh.

01:24:07 Speaker_02
Okay, well in the non-spirit realm, in the non-dream world, I went motorcycle riding on Friday with Danny Rick,

01:24:18 Speaker_07
Danny Ricardo.

01:24:20 Speaker_02
And this radical dude, Adam, who is a motocross racer, like, you know, a real... I don't know. I want you to understand.

01:24:33 Speaker_07
I'm never going to understand.

01:24:36 Speaker_02
Well, it's like me playing pickup basketball with Michael Jordan.

01:24:40 Speaker_07
Yeah, that's cool.

01:24:41 Speaker_02
Right?

01:24:41 Speaker_07
Like this guy is- But is it cool? Cause it's like fun, but very intimidating.

01:24:45 Speaker_02
Not for him or me.

01:24:46 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:24:47 Speaker_02
Okay. So it was, um, it was Adam, it was Ricardo, you know, I think the standard age was 30, 33, and then a couple of great blokes from Australia that Danny had in town. And you know, Aussies are nuts. They're young and wild.

01:25:02 Speaker_02
And we met at Rauer Flats in the mountains, and I was on a brand new motorcycle, KLX 300. I love it. So comfy. Dual sport, and I know I'm losing you.

01:25:11 Speaker_02
And we rode for five straight hours up and up a mountain trail, down a mountain trail, up a mountain trail. And I got to tell you, I succeeded. I wasn't ever vocally complaining, but it did cross my mind. When are we going to be done? Not done.

01:25:34 Speaker_02
Just we've made, we've probably reached a point where we probably can't ride for five hours with 30 year olds. Like, oh wow, okay, we're really here where I did it.

01:25:44 Speaker_07
I didn't crash.

01:25:47 Speaker_02
Also, you should know dirt bikes is my worst domain. Out of all things you put gas in, it's the thing I'm the least good at. So I was working my ass off out there. And there was a moment where there was this huge, huge, super duper steep hill climb.

01:26:05 Speaker_02
which I will add, there were seven of us riding, five of us didn't make it. So it wasn't me per se.

01:26:12 Speaker_02
I'm almost to the top and now I'm in first gear and it's fish channel and I'm losing traction and I'm trying to keep it going to get to the top of the hill and all of a sudden I just catch the front wheel and I go over this berm.

01:26:21 Speaker_02
So now I'm off to the side of the mountain and now I'm off the bike so I don't tumble and the bike's now kind of laying sideways and I'm still on this crazy steep hill. And I've got a now, now this berms in between the front tire and the back.

01:26:35 Speaker_02
So I've got to get it off of the berm back out onto the super duper steep trail, then let the clutch out and start walking next to it and ride it up from the side. All that to say.

01:26:47 Speaker_02
That was like a four-minute battle with the motorcycle as to not lose my footing, fall backwards down this hill, not drop the bike, all this stuff. I finally got up to the top of the hill.

01:26:58 Speaker_02
I got on my motorcycle, and thank God I was first, so I had a while while the rest of them tried to climb this hill, and I just leaned over my handlebars, and I think my heart rate was like, it had to be 185.

01:27:10 Speaker_02
What I realized is this is the highest my heart rate has been in a decade, and then we had another three hours of riding.

01:27:17 Speaker_07
Do what is a berm?

01:27:19 Speaker_02
It's like there's dirt But then the dirt because everyone's riding is kicking the dirt to the side so that it just naturally gets dish shaped So it's dish shaped and then on so that's a berm It's like raised like 12 inches of dirt from where the trail is and then there's a bunch of tall grass growing on top of that So whatever the fuck that adds to it.

01:27:39 Speaker_07
It's a little baby hill

01:27:40 Speaker_02
It's a little baby hell on the side of the very steep hill.

01:27:42 Speaker_07
Okay.

01:27:43 Speaker_02
So, so why is that the question? No. Yeah.

01:27:46 Speaker_07
I mean, I, you, the people look, this is great, great, great details.

01:27:51 Speaker_06
Okay.

01:27:51 Speaker_07
But I really, I think the, the question is how do you feel about the fact that you are done writing with 30 year olds?

01:27:58 Speaker_02
I don't know that I'm done.

01:28:00 Speaker_07
Okay, well, okay, but it made you think about your age.

01:28:05 Speaker_02
It was a mixed bag. Here's what it was. It was like, wow, I pulled that off, but kind of by the skin of my teeth. Here's what the thought was. I'm gonna be out here soon, and I'm not gonna be able to pull it off. That was what it was.

01:28:18 Speaker_02
It wasn't like I'm not going to, or I don't think I could next time. It was just like, oh, wow, we hit the limit of our endurance on something that we're just okay at.

01:28:29 Speaker_07
You might be on the other side of the berm.

01:28:31 Speaker_02
Ooh, really nice metaphor. But Danny Rick update on him as a human being.

01:28:36 Speaker_07
Wait, how do you feel?

01:28:37 Speaker_02
Oh, what part?

01:28:39 Speaker_07
About aging. Oh. That's the question. Like that's a kind of existential thought.

01:28:46 Speaker_02
I don't feel good or bad about it. I just feel like I knew I needed to do some analysis and recognize that we're probably nearing the end of me being able to do that.

01:28:57 Speaker_07
Yeah, and?

01:28:59 Speaker_02
And that might be fine. Okay. Because what happens nicely that parallels it perfectly is like it gets less enjoyable because it's so hard.

01:29:08 Speaker_07
Yes.

01:29:08 Speaker_02
So it's not like I feel like I'll be giving something up. Now, and again, I'm talking about, I'm giving up potentially a five hour ride in the mountains. I still could go ride for a few hours or it's not that I have to give it up.

01:29:19 Speaker_02
There's just a zone where it's probably going to get less enjoyable as I get older at a certain level. And I'm recognizing I've, I might've crescendoed this whole thing.

01:29:29 Speaker_07
That's a good way of looking at it. Like not just you camp, but that you don't really want to.

01:29:34 Speaker_02
Not that, not the version where we're out all day long.

01:29:37 Speaker_07
And this is a ding, ding, ding. Cause this is for Morgan and he had to stop sailing.

01:29:42 Speaker_02
That I hated that. That was heartbreaking. But also I was very grateful because if I go past my limit out there, it sucks. I have to ride really slowly back to camp and take a long time. If you meet,

01:29:57 Speaker_02
the end of your talents out in a sailboat, I don't know what happens then. Like if you're mid-storm and you gotta fight and you no longer have the capacity, that to me sounds very deadly.

01:30:09 Speaker_02
So I was heartbroken, because you can tell how much he loves sailing. Sailing, ding, ding, ding. I love the TED. Turner Dock, a lot of sailing in that. These people, they're different from me.

01:30:20 Speaker_07
Yeah, from me too.

01:30:23 Speaker_05
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

01:30:36 Speaker_07
A couple quick updates for me.

01:30:38 Speaker_02
Okay.

01:30:39 Speaker_07
I had Monsgiving.

01:30:40 Speaker_02
And it was a real success.

01:30:42 Speaker_07
It was a great success.

01:30:44 Speaker_02
You almost gave up on making the squash.

01:30:46 Speaker_07
No, on the green beans.

01:30:48 Speaker_02
The green beans. The squash was a hit, sorry.

01:30:50 Speaker_07
The squash was a hit. Really, everything was a hit. I was going to make, you know, It's a big undertaking. It really is. And it starts the day before. The day before, you have to make the stock, and that takes three to four hours.

01:31:09 Speaker_07
And then you also make, I made the cranberry sauce the night before. I made, you brine the turkey. Yeah.

01:31:18 Speaker_02
Yeah, this is an extraordinary amount of work. Yeah, that's one little mouse in her little tiny kitchen.

01:31:24 Speaker_07
I know the kitchen. Oh boy. We talked earlier that Allison Roman I was worried.

01:31:28 Speaker_07
She wasn't gonna do Thanksgiving this year because she's pregnant, but she did do it, which was very exciting Oh good, and she shows in the video her turkey has a bag of giblets on one side and a bag on the other double giblets I don't like Yeah, no one likes it.

01:31:44 Speaker_07
No. No, it's in a bag, but I know it's disgusting.

01:31:47 Speaker_02
Yeah, I I don't know why you need a double dose of the juice.

01:31:51 Speaker_07
Well, exactly. So, okay. So she was like, make sure you get them because she said one year she accidentally cooked with them and ew, that's disgusting. So I, I, one was very easy. half already kind of sticking out, pulled that out.

01:32:09 Speaker_07
Then I am looking for the other bag and I can't find it.

01:32:15 Speaker_02
You're saying there's two bags of giblets in a turkey? I thought there was only one bag.

01:32:19 Speaker_07
Well, exactly. So on her video, there were two bags. Have you been listening? Or are you doing the thing that I do with the motorcycles?

01:32:27 Speaker_02
No, I thought she got an auxiliary bag of giblets from the butcher.

01:32:31 Speaker_07
Oh, gross, no.

01:32:32 Speaker_02
I thought there was one bag of giblets per turkey. Why would there be two? Exactly. Why don't they put it in one bag?

01:32:38 Speaker_07
Exactly.

01:32:38 Speaker_02
Can you see all the reasons why it didn't make sense to me there's two bags of giblets in a turkey?

01:32:41 Speaker_07
That's what my whole thought process was, is, oh my God, there's two, there's one on both ends? Weird, and they have to be removed.

01:32:50 Speaker_07
So I took the one out that was very obvious, and then I'm looking in the other side, and I can't find it, but it also feels like it's a little frozen, so I'm just like, shoving my hand up this turkey all the way up.

01:33:06 Speaker_07
Moving my little fingers around looking for this bag and I'm convinced that it's frozen up in there.

01:33:13 Speaker_02
Sure.

01:33:14 Speaker_07
Can't find it anywhere.

01:33:16 Speaker_02
So I'm panicking. Do you Google at any point do turkeys have two bags of giblets?

01:33:21 Speaker_07
No. So I am doing that and also you have to like pull out this plastic thing in there that's really hard to hold.

01:33:29 Speaker_02
They're packing this turkey full of plastics?

01:33:32 Speaker_07
There's a plastic thing inside that you pull out with the legs.

01:33:36 Speaker_07
Anyway, so I was like, okay, I can't get this bag out now, probably because it's frozen, so by tomorrow it will be unthawed and it'll be completely unthawed and I'll be able to get it out. So I brined the turkey.

01:33:49 Speaker_07
Well, it was unthawed already, but I was thinking maybe it wasn't.

01:33:55 Speaker_02
Wait, doesn't unthawed mean frozen?

01:33:57 Speaker_07
Oh, sorry, it was thawed. You're right. It was thawed already, but I thought maybe there was still some parts that were unthawed inside, and that was causing the issue. So whatever, I brine it, put it in the refrigerator.

01:34:12 Speaker_02
Give it another round of fisting. Yeah, I did.

01:34:14 Speaker_07
I did a full fist. Then the next day when I took it out, I did it again, hand all the way in, squish, squish, squish, pull, pull, pull. Nothing.

01:34:30 Speaker_02
No giblets.

01:34:31 Speaker_07
I panicked. So then I do text Allison and I asked, does every turkey have two bags or is it just one? I'm panicking that it's in there and I can't find it. She said, no, not all of them do.

01:34:46 Speaker_02
I don't know why any of them do.

01:34:48 Speaker_07
Well, hers did.

01:34:48 Speaker_02
Also, this is like TSC, TCS.

01:34:52 Speaker_07
BTS?

01:34:53 Speaker_02
T-S-S.

01:34:55 Speaker_07
T-S-S. It is T-S-S, it is Toxic Shock Syndrome, that's right.

01:34:59 Speaker_02
I didn't wanna say it out loud, but yeah.

01:35:01 Speaker_07
It is, it's so scary.

01:35:02 Speaker_02
I know, you gotta get those giblets out. Why are they in there? Fuck, I need a turkey grower to explain why you need to include that. Yeah, I agree, maybe some people- If you have to pull it out, why?

01:35:13 Speaker_07
Some people probably use them for stuff.

01:35:15 Speaker_02
Oh, I mean, there's some good dish people make with the giblets.

01:35:19 Speaker_07
So anyway, that next day, you know, I have to make the turkey. I make the stuffing. I make the squash gratin.

01:35:27 Speaker_02
What are we doing for brown and serve biscuits? Any brown and serve rolls? No rolls.

01:35:35 Speaker_07
That's the part you're gonna hang, you're getting hung up on?

01:35:37 Speaker_02
Yeah, I think it's my favorite, now I can't even eat them because they're gluteny, but I think that was always my favorite part of Thanksgiving dinner, is those brown and serve rolls.

01:35:45 Speaker_07
What's brown and serve, I've never had this.

01:35:47 Speaker_02
I think they're already maybe a bit baked and then they brown and then you serve them. and you serve them hot, and then when you put the butter on, it just melts.

01:35:57 Speaker_07
They're so soft. I didn't make that. That's not part of Allison's thing.

01:35:59 Speaker_02
They're kind of like a Hawaiian sweet roll.

01:36:00 Speaker_07
Oh, I see. Oh, I think I know what you mean.

01:36:02 Speaker_06
Yeah.

01:36:02 Speaker_07
Okay, so the squash gratin, the stuffing, there was a kale salad with these honeyed walnuts. I had to make the gravy.

01:36:14 Speaker_06
My God.

01:36:15 Speaker_07
I think I'm forgetting something. Oh, potatoes, mashed potatoes, sour cream and chives. And there it's OK. I start cooking at eleven and people come at six.

01:36:27 Speaker_02
Right.

01:36:28 Speaker_07
And I'm I it's the whole time.

01:36:29 Speaker_02
Never stopped. Seven hours.

01:36:31 Speaker_07
Yes. But as we're heading towards the end, I think I cannot make these green beans. It was the last thing I had to do. And I was like, I'm not doing it. But then I looked in the mirror and I hated my face. It was the face of a failure.

01:36:45 Speaker_02
A quitter.

01:36:47 Speaker_07
A quitter, someone who cuts corners.

01:36:49 Speaker_02
Someone who only looks for one bag of giblets.

01:36:53 Speaker_07
I said, that's not me. That's not going to be me. So I made it. And it was basically a homemade green bean casserole. You make it with green beans, mushrooms, you make your own roux. And it was everyone's favorite.

01:37:07 Speaker_02
Thank goodness.

01:37:07 Speaker_07
Thank God.

01:37:09 Speaker_02
You almost cut that corner. It saved the whole meal.

01:37:11 Speaker_07
And I think the lesson is you got to burn out.

01:37:15 Speaker_02
Yeah.

01:37:16 Speaker_07
You got to push yourself until you want to die.

01:37:18 Speaker_02
Kind of like my motorcycle ride. And then you have the pride of having saw it through.

01:37:24 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:37:25 Speaker_02
It's a funny endeavor, right? Cause for seven hours, you're probably pretty miserable.

01:37:29 Speaker_07
I know.

01:37:30 Speaker_02
Also that someone can eat it and say, you did a good job. And you go, okay, it was worth it. I did a good job by the way. I'm the same way. I'm not throwing stones in the house. Yeah.

01:37:40 Speaker_07
And it was so hot in my, I was sweating for seven hours cause it was so hot in my kitchen. Cause the oven.

01:37:47 Speaker_04
Yeah. Ooh, baby.

01:37:50 Speaker_07
Yeah. Anyway, but it went great. It was super fun. Loved it.

01:37:54 Speaker_02
Marymount. Fellowship.

01:37:56 Speaker_07
Yes.

01:37:57 Speaker_02
Did you guys give thanks?

01:37:58 Speaker_07
We gave thanks. Oh, good. It was a great night. Oh, I want to make this clear. This is important to eight people who are listening, our friends. I think it might seem to the pod like I'm neglecting the pod, that I'm rude because I'm not including them.

01:38:18 Speaker_02
I don't think that's what anyone thinks.

01:38:19 Speaker_07
Well, in case they're worried about that. The reason it's done like this, one is I can only host maximum eight people in that kitchen. Next year, who knows? But I have a limit and we already do Thanksgiving together.

01:38:37 Speaker_02
That's right, it would be two Thanksgivings.

01:38:39 Speaker_07
It would be two of the exact same thing.

01:38:41 Speaker_02
Yes.

01:38:41 Speaker_07
So I do it with people.

01:38:43 Speaker_02
Even worse, one would be homemade, one would be catered, and then people would inevitably vocally vote who did it better. And then someone's a loser.

01:38:51 Speaker_07
Well, now you're making me want to.

01:38:53 Speaker_02
I bet you do, you little competitive mouse.

01:38:55 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:38:56 Speaker_02
Rat, that's your rat side, you fucking rat.

01:39:01 Speaker_07
Next year we're gonna do it.

01:39:02 Speaker_02
No, I don't think that's a good. No situation where one of the two teams is losing when both people have been very generous.

01:39:09 Speaker_07
No, the other team, the catered team is... That would be our loss. Yeah, but not really.

01:39:17 Speaker_02
Sure.

01:39:18 Speaker_07
Why?

01:39:19 Speaker_02
If everyone voted in the Shepherds, Thanksgiving dinner wasn't as good as the Padmans.

01:39:23 Speaker_07
Well, if it's not as good because no one made it, no one made it.

01:39:27 Speaker_02
Right.

01:39:28 Speaker_07
It's not like.

01:39:29 Speaker_02
But in my defense, we have 22 guests.

01:39:31 Speaker_07
Now you're taking it as an insult, but I'm telling you.

01:39:33 Speaker_02
Well, I think, yeah, it would be if the verdict was we liked Monica's better and we had just fed 22 people.

01:39:41 Speaker_07
Well, in this case, I would be feeding the same amount of people.

01:39:44 Speaker_02
Great.

01:39:44 Speaker_07
It would be the same group.

01:39:46 Speaker_02
Great. So if we fed 22 people and then they said, hey, we liked Monica's better. I would feel like, well, then fuck you. You don't eat it next year.

01:39:57 Speaker_07
What?

01:39:58 Speaker_02
Yeah. You had to declare that you liked Monica's better.

01:40:01 Speaker_07
Well, that's weird because if I ordered sushi for everyone. Yeah. And then like the next week we went to someone like a sushi chef.

01:40:10 Speaker_02
And then I go, I can cook it better. and I'm gonna cook sushi, and then I want everyone to vote whether they liked Monica's sushi restaurant.

01:40:18 Speaker_07
Well, first of all, you made it about voting.

01:40:20 Speaker_02
No.

01:40:20 Speaker_07
Yeah, you did.

01:40:21 Speaker_02
We both did.

01:40:22 Speaker_07
Well, I said I will be.

01:40:24 Speaker_02
You said you wanna do that next year.

01:40:26 Speaker_07
I will be competitive if that happens.

01:40:28 Speaker_02
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I said it's not a good idea, because someone loses. Someone will be voted as the worst meal. And I feel like that's a weird thank you for hosting 22 people to be declared the worst of the two meals.

01:40:39 Speaker_07
Yeah, that's true. That is, I mean, I hear you. I just can't ever, like anytime I order anything ever, I don't expect it to be as good as someone who made something.

01:40:53 Speaker_02
Oh, I do. When I order spicy tuna crispy rice from Katsuya, I damn well think it's better than any version I'm gonna make in my kitchen.

01:41:00 Speaker_07
Not you, someone who is a sushi chef, someone who has the full recipe that's not like someone who doesn't really- A sushi chef. doesn't really know what to do. It's a little different. It's not like I'm making a pizza and we're ordering from Lucifer's.

01:41:18 Speaker_07
Like, yeah, I don't know how to make that, but I'm like following a really fancy, real recipe that I've also now been making for a couple of years.

01:41:27 Speaker_02
Yeah. I can understand why you would want to be told your homemade meal was better than the store-bought one. I understand that fully.

01:41:36 Speaker_07
Uh-huh.

01:41:36 Speaker_02
Do you understand that I how I would feel if I hosted 22 people and paid for and catered a meal And then they told me it wasn't as good as this other one. They had.

01:41:45 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:41:46 Speaker_02
Can you imagine how that I would feel in that situation?

01:41:48 Speaker_07
I don't think anyone needs to say anything. I just okay. Let's say that I order you I order for 22 people. I throw a big dinner party and I order.

01:41:59 Speaker_02
And then I make spaghetti one night later.

01:42:01 Speaker_07
Yes, I order spaghetti from Little Dom's.

01:42:03 Speaker_02
I don't want anyone at the table to say I like this better than the meal Monica bought us.

01:42:09 Speaker_07
Sure. We don't have to. No one has to say it. But don't you think in your heart that people should and would like your homemade spaghetti more than my purchased spaghetti from Little Dom's. A great spaghetti.

01:42:24 Speaker_02
I don't know, I think if you brought in the bolognese from Chateau Marmois, I think it would probably be split and I would expect that.

01:42:32 Speaker_07
That's weird. I would never expect anyone to prefer that.

01:42:38 Speaker_02
That Chateau is a good, that's a nice bolognese.

01:42:41 Speaker_07
It's fantastic, but it's not the same as when someone makes something.

01:42:46 Speaker_02
Yeah, but I think your flavor, like whatever your flavor profiles are, one might taste better. Okay.

01:42:51 Speaker_07
To me, the, it would be the, the way it's really bad is if I made Thanksgiving and then you made Thanksgiving, then a hundred percent, no one could ever, that's really horrible to say one is better than the other. Cause that's like.

01:43:08 Speaker_07
your effort and work. It's like saying someone's writing is better than someone else's.

01:43:12 Speaker_02
Now look, we'll see if next year you are able to prepare a meal for 22 people. Maybe you will, but I think at a certain point, if we were inviting 10 people, sure, we'd make it. At the point where we're at 22 people.

01:43:27 Speaker_07
I'm not asking you to make anything.

01:43:30 Speaker_02
I don't think you are.

01:43:30 Speaker_07
I feel like you're making it that, like you're like defensive that you're catering it.

01:43:36 Speaker_02
No, I'm not defensive, I'm saying I don't think we could make a Thanksgiving meal for 22 people.

01:43:43 Speaker_07
Yeah, it seems very hard.

01:43:44 Speaker_02
That's what I'm saying. So, because I don't think we can make enough food for 22 people, unless it's all we did this week.

01:43:51 Speaker_07
Right.

01:43:51 Speaker_02
Which is not what we're going to do.

01:43:52 Speaker_07
It would have to be potluck.

01:43:54 Speaker_02
Great. If it was potluck, then that's a whole different thing. But if we're making, I don't think we can make food for 22 people.

01:44:00 Speaker_07
Yes, too much.

01:44:01 Speaker_02
So, yeah, I would just, I would not need to know if they thought it was worse than another meal they had.

01:44:07 Speaker_07
That makes, that makes sense. Um, anyway.

01:44:11 Speaker_02
Well, it was hypothetical and almost it was real.

01:44:15 Speaker_07
Right. Yeah.

01:44:16 Speaker_02
And it was just hypothetical.

01:44:18 Speaker_07
I know. But anyway, the reason the pod is not invited is because, so yeah, is because we already do Thanksgiving together and it's a beautiful, wonderful thing.

01:44:30 Speaker_07
And I don't need to, we don't need to have Thanksgiving and then the next week have Thanksgiving again. And so I have it with friends who I don't have Thanksgiving with.

01:44:38 Speaker_02
Yeah. No, I don't think anybody's hurt.

01:44:40 Speaker_07
Just in case.

01:44:41 Speaker_02
Okay. Were you mad, Rob? No. Okay. No.

01:44:45 Speaker_07
So would you have liked to have tried it?

01:44:47 Speaker_02
Yeah, I would like to try some food.

01:44:50 Speaker_07
I appreciate that. This is the sweetest point of America.

01:44:53 Speaker_02
So weird, one part's rascal, one part's sweetest point of America.

01:44:57 Speaker_07
Okay, another real, just super, super quick, gift guides went up. So this will come out Monday.

01:45:06 Speaker_02
Yeah. Three days after four days after Thanksgiving.

01:45:08 Speaker_07
Okay. So they were up last week on my Instagram and people want to go look at my gift guides. They're on my Instagram. Also they're on, I made a sub stack for it so that I could write a little more. So what's on my Instagram is an abridged version.

01:45:27 Speaker_02
Go to a link tree.

01:45:29 Speaker_07
You can go to the link tree in my bio and you can go click on it. And if you feel like you want to read a little more, you can do that. And there are links to the items there.

01:45:39 Speaker_04
Wonderful.

01:45:40 Speaker_07
Okay. Now a couple facts really quick for Morgan. So the old, the riddle about where did they bury the survivors? So the brain teaser is, If a plane crashed on the border of country A and country B, where would you bury the survivors?

01:46:00 Speaker_07
The answer is... You don't bury survivors.

01:46:03 Speaker_02
But I was the one who referenced this riddle, right? Yeah, you were. So I knew this old one.

01:46:07 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:46:08 Speaker_02
Yeah.

01:46:08 Speaker_07
You knew it. Okay. The South African woman who sailed around the world in the documentary, CBS documentary called The Loneliest Race. It features Kristen Neuschafer, a South African sailor who became the first woman to win the Golden Globe race.

01:46:23 Speaker_07
And you said it was harrowing.

01:46:24 Speaker_02
It was harrowing and there was another competitor that got stranded in the middle of the Indian ocean or something. She had to turn her boat around and sail for days to go rescue this person.

01:46:36 Speaker_02
And then when she came into the Harbor a year later or something like that, Not 10 months, a year. The second place was like some hours behind her. Wild. And that seems impossible.

01:46:48 Speaker_07
Yeah. The doldrums, he said, are 10 degrees north and south of the equator. Yeah. And they're five. Sesame Street started November 10th, 1969.

01:47:00 Speaker_02
Okay. For six years before I was born. And? And on my brother's birthday, wait, what month?

01:47:06 Speaker_07
November.

01:47:07 Speaker_02
Okay. Three days before baby David Robert Shepard jr. Arrived.

01:47:12 Speaker_07
Yes. And then Sesame street was October 25th, 1971.

01:47:16 Speaker_02
It's very weird to think that it existed before I did. Cause it was so in my childhood.

01:47:25 Speaker_07
Wait, sorry, wait. Sesame Street started in 1969. The Electric Company started in 1975.

01:47:30 Speaker_02
Electric Company, which he was on, which was much funkier.

01:47:34 Speaker_07
Yeah. Why is Othello so hard to perform? According to AI, it's considered a challenging play to perform primarily because of its complex characters.

01:47:44 Speaker_07
particularly the nuanced portrayal of Iago's manipulative nature, the delicate balance of Othello's trusting nature that quickly turns to destructive jealousy, and the sensitive issue of race that can be difficult to navigate on stage, requiring careful interpretation to avoid stereotypes.

01:48:02 Speaker_02
Avoid stereotypes.

01:48:03 Speaker_07
It's new. That's a new, that's new.

01:48:06 Speaker_02
Answer.

01:48:07 Speaker_07
Weird. That's weird. What? What? That's weird.

01:48:14 Speaker_02
I am so grateful. It's learning.

01:48:16 Speaker_07
Real time, it's learning.

01:48:18 Speaker_02
I'm so grateful and lucky to spend so much time with someone who's so different than me. It's so fun.

01:48:25 Speaker_07
What?

01:48:26 Speaker_02
It is. It'd be so boring if you and I were the same.

01:48:30 Speaker_07
I agree. But why is that funny?

01:48:32 Speaker_02
Cause you're like really suspicious. What the heck's going on? This is a different answer. Now my guess is you could ask AI and you'll always get a slightly different answer.

01:48:41 Speaker_07
That's crazy to me.

01:48:42 Speaker_02
Yeah.

01:48:43 Speaker_07
That's not weird to you that it's like updating that quickly.

01:48:47 Speaker_02
No, I think if on the same day you did it, it would be a different thing.

01:48:51 Speaker_07
Well, that's bad.

01:48:52 Speaker_02
Yeah, but it just added more or had a little less.

01:48:55 Speaker_07
No, the other one used to talk about Desdemona. Oh, this doesn't even reference her. Oh, cause Trump.

01:49:01 Speaker_02
Like Rob, will you right now type in the same exact question into the, what's the exact question? Google AI.

01:49:08 Speaker_07
Why is Othello so hard to perform?

01:49:13 Speaker_02
Let's see if Rob reads the exact same one you have, or if it's completely different.

01:49:18 Speaker_03
It's complex themes around race, jealousy and manipulation, which require nuanced acting and careful direction to navigate without perpetuating harmful stereotypes alongside the demanding role of Othello himself.

01:49:30 Speaker_02
Is that word for word?

01:49:31 Speaker_03
No.

01:49:32 Speaker_02
It's not.

01:49:33 Speaker_07
But it's similar. Similar, yeah. Weird.

01:49:36 Speaker_03
Uh-huh. Is it taking in the searcher?

01:49:40 Speaker_02
Well, it thinks each time. Like, each time it performs the task of scouring the internet and coming up with a thing, and so it's somewhat random.

01:49:50 Speaker_07
Then there's no... real correct answer.

01:49:53 Speaker_02
But nor is. Yes. Agreed.

01:49:56 Speaker_07
I mean, this isn't a factual question.

01:49:58 Speaker_02
But nor is there in on straight Google search, which is like you might come up with one article that has an opinion on it. And then there's another article that's got another reason why it's.

01:50:06 Speaker_02
So there's no unified theory in all the results and things written about.

01:50:12 Speaker_07
Yes. But then you can look through a but you do have a lot of options. This is just like deciding.

01:50:19 Speaker_02
Yeah. Yeah, it is. But I'm just saying it's not less consistent.

01:50:24 Speaker_02
It's probably more consistent in a way, because if you just get search results, you're going to get 10 different explanations on why Othello is hard to perform through these different links.

01:50:36 Speaker_02
The AI version gave you guys pretty darn close to the same answer.

01:50:40 Speaker_07
Today, but last time it talked about Desdemona.

01:50:43 Speaker_02
Yeah, it added that.

01:50:45 Speaker_07
They got rid of her because Handmaid's Tale.

01:50:49 Speaker_02
Wait, we're scrubbing people from history, is that it?

01:50:52 Speaker_07
We're moving, like women are getting.

01:50:55 Speaker_02
Erased.

01:50:55 Speaker_07
Erased. Oh my God. Okay, fibromyalgia, neuralgia, he has neuralgia. It's a sharp, shocking pain that occurs when a nerve is damaged or irritated. It can feel like burning or sensitivity to touch and can cause muscle spasms.

01:51:09 Speaker_07
Neuralgia can be acute, short-term, or chronic, ongoing.

01:51:12 Speaker_02
Mmm, I don't want neuralgia. No, maybe that's what I have Right here. I can touch it immediately now. I know exactly where the nerve is.

01:51:19 Speaker_07
Okay, okay Okay, are you gonna get it checked out?

01:51:23 Speaker_02
I don't know.

01:51:24 Speaker_07
Maybe don't complain about until you get it checked out.

01:51:27 Speaker_02
Okay?

01:51:28 Speaker_07
I'd like you to get it checked out. Um, all right, that's it from Morgie Don't complain about

01:51:37 Speaker_02
I don't even know if I was complaining.

01:51:39 Speaker_07
Well, I'm just telling you.

01:51:40 Speaker_02
That's off the table. Yeah. I'm never allowed to complain about anything until after I've had it checked out.

01:51:45 Speaker_07
Yes, actually, that's a good rule.

01:51:47 Speaker_02
You haven't had your vagina checked out from your nightmare, but I'm willing to walk down that road with you.

01:51:51 Speaker_07
I'm not complaining, I'm expressing a fear.

01:51:54 Speaker_02
Oh, okay.

01:51:54 Speaker_07
That's different. Also, you can complain twice.

01:52:00 Speaker_02
That's the new house rule?

01:52:02 Speaker_07
But if it's a body thing, you can complain a couple times, but then you gotta get it checked out if it still hurts.

01:52:11 Speaker_02
I abide by that. That makes sense. Either fix it or shut up about it.

01:52:16 Speaker_07
Yeah.

01:52:16 Speaker_02
That's it. Earmark that for, I wanna earmark for the next fact check.

01:52:21 Speaker_07
Okay.

01:52:22 Speaker_02
Walking down the hill hiking from the turkey trot and Delta calling me, being one step ahead of me emotionally, calling me out and forcing me to walk through what really happened. And I was like, oh my God, we're here.

01:52:38 Speaker_02
She's nine and she's now doing for me what I have been doing for her and her whole childhood.

01:52:44 Speaker_07
Wait, now you have to kind of say it quickly. Can you say it really quick?

01:52:47 Speaker_02
Okay. Top of the hill coming down. She's cold. She's complaining about being cold. She's complaining about being really hungry. And then like 40 minutes later, um,

01:52:58 Speaker_02
I, she's saying, I had now ordered macaroni and cheese, told Kristen to start making it by the time we got home, so there'd be macaroni and cheese. And then I say like, she says, are you gonna eat? What are you gonna eat when you get home?

01:53:10 Speaker_02
And I go, oh my God, anything, I'm starving. And she goes, you're starving too? And I go, yeah. And she goes, why didn't you say anything about it? And I go, well, I didn't wanna complain about it.

01:53:20 Speaker_02
And she immediately goes, are you saying that to let me know that you don't like that I complained about it? And I go, Oh, am I doing that? Maybe to some, on some degree. Yeah. I didn't feel like I was doing it, but yeah, maybe.

01:53:36 Speaker_02
And she goes, well, I don't, um, I don't understand why I should feel bad sharing how I feel. And I go, yeah, that's totally true. I said, but I guess I'm always thinking in life. Would I want to be next to someone that's complaining the whole time?

01:53:51 Speaker_02
I just try to act in a way that is what I would want other people to act. So I think about, do I want to take a hike with someone and listen to them complain for an hour and a half?

01:54:00 Speaker_02
I don't want to, so I just don't do that because I'm assuming no one else would want that. And she goes, well, I would want to always be my full self around everybody.

01:54:08 Speaker_02
And if someone doesn't want to be around me because I'm being my full self, that's fine. But I don't think I should not be my full self. And I go, yeah, that's a really legitimate point of view. I think there's a lot of merit to that.

01:54:23 Speaker_02
And then we're walking and I'm just not feeling great about it. And I go, I know what's going on Delta. What really happens is when you complain about being hungry, I want to fix it. I can't. We're on top of a hill and I can't make it go away for you.

01:54:39 Speaker_02
And now I'm uncomfortable because I can't solve a problem for someone I love. And so really it's just my problem. I want to be able to fix it. And she goes, Daddy, I'm not saying any of this so you can fix it.

01:54:53 Speaker_02
I'm just saying it so you know what I'm going through. I was like, Jesus Christ. But she had to unravel that whole thing for me. I just said I didn't complain about it. And without any real awareness, I was being passive aggressive.

01:55:06 Speaker_02
And she's just like, she's not taking that. She's like, what was that?

01:55:08 Speaker_07
Is that, does that mean what I think it might mean?

01:55:13 Speaker_02
I just realized like, oh wow. My mom talks about this. She's like, you know, I knew at this given age, you were smarter than me, which is a weird position for a parent and child to be in. Yeah.

01:55:23 Speaker_02
And I've heard her say that to me and never thought that, in my own arrogance, I'm not like, well, I don't think they're gonna fly by me. And fucking A. I think she flew by me at nine years old on this hike.

01:55:34 Speaker_07
She's indomitable. God, I love her.

01:55:38 Speaker_02
Me too. All right, that was my, I don't need to earmark it now. All right. Okay, love you. Love you. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:56:03 Speaker_02
You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.