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Episode: Jude Law
Author: Armchair Umbrella
Duration: 02:09:56
Episode Shownotes
Jude Law (The Order, Skeleton Crew, Sherlock Holmes) is an actor. Jude joins the Armchair Expert to discuss why he feels like he cries more than he used to, how he has become an unapologetic enthusiast, and having to tap into different parts of your personality for different roles. Jude
and Dax talk about him finding his confidence when he joined theater, what it’s like to work with great directors, and how important Mike Nichols was to him. Jude explains the chemistry with RDJ on set of Sherlock Holmes, what having a behavioral psychologist for a wife is like, and how traumatic it was to have his phone hacked. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Summary
In this episode of Armchair Expert, Jude Law discusses his emotional growth, revealing his newfound willingness to express vulnerability and a greater tendency to cry. He shares insights into his acting career, particularly how theater experiences contributed to his confidence and versatility in portraying complex characters. The conversation delves into his relationships with directors like Mike Nichols and highlights the on-screen chemistry with Robert Downey Jr. in 'Sherlock Holmes.' Jude also touches on personal experiences such as fatherhood, the impact of public scrutiny, and the fallout from a phone hacking incident, illustrating the delicate balance between his public persona and private life.
Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Jude Law) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.
Full Transcript
00:00:00 Speaker_08
Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert.
00:00:16 Speaker_08
I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Ms. Monica Law.
00:00:19 Speaker_06
Hi. What's that?
00:00:24 Speaker_08
If your name was Monica Law and you were like a you were like a D.A. in a town.
00:00:29 Speaker_06
I would have if that was my last name I would have no choice but to go into either law enforcement or.
00:00:35 Speaker_08
Prosecution. Yes, or Supreme Court or Supreme Court or physics. There's a lot of laws for that.
00:00:43 Speaker_06
Oh, sure. Sure.
00:00:45 Speaker_08
Jude Law, though, is not a failure, despite not going into jurisprudence. I just want to make that very clear. He is a Tony and Academy Award nominated actor. The talented Mr. Ripley, The Holiday, Sherlock Holmes, Fantastic Beasts, Cold Mountain.
00:00:59 Speaker_08
And a movie that he is truly from the bottom of my heart, spectacular and chameleon. This happens once in a while. It certainly happened with Vice. Do you remember Cheney? And you're like, you're trying to find. Christian Bale in there.
00:01:14 Speaker_08
Is that, is he in there? Jude pulls that off in this. It's such a kind of departure from what we've seen, and it's really a great movie. It's called The Order, and it is out December 6th. Okay, so that's a good bit of lead time.
00:01:26 Speaker_08
Put that in your calendar now. Also, he has a new series coming out on 12-3. He has a very busy December. He has Skeleton Crew. It's in the Star Wars universe on Disney+. Busy bee. A lot of blessings he's giving us. Please enjoy Jude Law.
00:01:42 Speaker_08
We are supported by Audible. Audible's best of 2024 picks are here. Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment. Like a stunning new full cast production of George Orwell's 1984.
00:02:01 Speaker_08
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00:02:04 Speaker_06
I'm so excited to listen to James, which is a new title by Percival Efret that is very, very hot right now.
00:02:14 Speaker_08
Well, there's so many good ones on the list.
00:02:15 Speaker_06
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00:02:18 Speaker_08
I love Audible, I swear by Audible. I can't wait to listen to the Orwell 1984 off this list. I'm also doing Flea's autobiography right now, which I'm obsessed with. I can't get enough Audible in my life, every night.
00:02:29 Speaker_08
Go to audible.com slash dax and discover all the year's best waiting for you. That's audible.com slash dax. We are supported by Amazon Prime.
00:02:42 Speaker_08
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00:02:51 Speaker_08
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00:03:13 Speaker_06
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00:03:16 Speaker_08
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00:03:24 Speaker_08
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00:03:44 Speaker_03
He's an armchair expert He's an armchair expert He's an armchair expert I'm a little fatigued, I'm a little frazzly, kind of jet-lagged, he's slightly over-emotional.
00:04:05 Speaker_02
Oh god, that's what we needed!
00:04:07 Speaker_06
Oh we love that, that's great for us!
00:04:10 Speaker_02
Over-emotional. You got me right at the heart of it. Over-emotional is a perfect... That's our sweet spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I start crying... Oh, let's hope. Fingers crossed. You're wearing such nice pants. Have you had any tears?
00:04:22 Speaker_08
Oh, plenty. I've cried in here several times.
00:04:26 Speaker_06
Our guests, too. We got a lot. I've never heard anyone cry on it. I feel like I've missed out. Yeah, we'll give you some. Anna Kendrick being number one.
00:04:34 Speaker_02
I just read an interview with her in an English paper, and she cried twice in the article.
00:04:39 Speaker_08
Well, she's very emotionally in touch. It's there on the surface, yeah. Are you jealous of that? Because I did not allow myself to cry for about 30 years.
00:04:49 Speaker_08
And then I think with having kids and a friend went to the hospital and it started, it just comes, but I'm like, yes, give it all to me. I really would love a full, I haven't had that yet. Ugly Faye, embarrassed.
00:05:02 Speaker_06
I thought you had it when you watched one of those female docs.
00:05:06 Speaker_08
The Sinead O'Connor one, I was just like pouring tears. And then I do this thing again, cause I beat it out of myself. When I start, I go, I start laughing uncontrollably. So it was a mix of laughing and crying. What's your history with crying?
00:05:23 Speaker_02
Good question. So there was definitely a time, and it's funny, isn't it, how it's related sometimes to being an actor. You want to be able to cry as an actor.
00:05:31 Speaker_02
And then the first time, if you're a kid and you're being asked to do it, it's kind of nerve wracking. And then you squeeze out a couple and you're really pleased. As a person, I was always emotional, but not a weeper. I am now. I just cry all the time.
00:05:45 Speaker_02
With great pleasure. When I'm happy, when I get just moved. Music. Film, my kids, of course. I can genuinely now really empathize with characters I play and I can just tune in and it can just pour out. Really? I'm on the brink of being a bit gushy.
00:06:01 Speaker_05
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:06:02 Speaker_02
I need to rein it in a touch. In life or in performing? And I worry that that maybe is also to do with, I just feel like I've been tired for two years.
00:06:12 Speaker_08
Yeah, I was looking at your slate of things we're here to talk about. I don't know how you made them, but there's no way we can even get through all the shit that's coming out.
00:06:19 Speaker_08
I mean, there's three big, big, big projects all landing around the same time.
00:06:23 Speaker_02
A couple of them were very small when I made them. They had big ambition and they're being received in such a generous way that now I'm like, oh, it's going to be a busy year. Yeah, but the smaller ones can be more draining. Yes.
00:06:36 Speaker_02
Well, less time, less money, because they're small, they're usually high content of cerebral demand.
00:06:42 Speaker_08
Yeah, in the morning you're crying, in the evening you're kicking someone's ass, and then you're making love at lunch. You're like, fuck, I've done everything a human can do in 10 hours because we're shooting French.
00:06:53 Speaker_08
And we have 22 days, and if we get bad weather, we're fucked.
00:06:56 Speaker_02
So you have the anxiety of it all. I just did a film with Ron Howard. We had a very tight budget and tight schedule. And he said the funniest thing. He said his plan B was shoot faster. That was all he was like. There was no cover. Just go, go, go.
00:07:10 Speaker_06
And that's Ron Howard.
00:07:12 Speaker_02
That was Ron. Well, that movie, fuck it, we're right here.
00:07:14 Speaker_08
That is also a very un-Ron Howard movie.
00:07:18 Speaker_02
Yes, it is. It's Ron in that well-deserved chapter of his life doing exactly what he wants to do. It's a project he was curious about for, I think, nearly 15 years. And it was a tricky one to get made. And it's like a modern Lord of the Flies-ish.
00:07:32 Speaker_02
It's set in the 30s actually. It's a true story about a group of idealists led by this very eccentric doctor that I played. This guy saw the rise of fascism coming and wanted to get away.
00:07:47 Speaker_02
He was an obsessed Nietzsche fan and so he bought a little piece of land on the Galapagos
00:07:53 Speaker_02
and moved there and lived literally like Adam and Eve for three years with his girlfriend, made everything by hand, caught rainwater to drink by, grew crops, meditated, and then he wrote these articles about his life, sent them back, and they got published, and he became, unbeknownst to him, kind of a bit of a celebrity.
00:08:11 Speaker_02
And suddenly all these acolytes turned up, because the last thing he wanted was anyone to be there. So suddenly his family arrived, and then this bizarre woman arrived who claimed to be a baroness who wanted to take over the island.
00:08:21 Speaker_02
They ended up killing each other. So it's real? Yeah, that story's true. All the characters are real, yeah. Oh my god. This is how extreme the personalities are.
00:08:29 Speaker_02
Ritter, who I play, extracted all his own teeth before he left because he didn't want any dental issues and wore metal dentures to eat with. I have these metal teeth. And he was a nudist, so he's sort of strolling around butt naked most of the time.
00:08:43 Speaker_02
With bionic teeth? Right, with bionic teeth. Oh my god. I mean, the characters in it are larger than life and highly unlikable for most of it. I found thrilling.
00:08:53 Speaker_08
It looks awesome, but it also doesn't look like any previous Ron Howard movie at all. But it looks fantastic. People are loving that one, right?
00:09:02 Speaker_02
I think it's divisive. I think it's a challenging piece. I think it's not a spoon feeder. The characters are unusual. What they do to each other is pretty dark, but there's a really pure message in it. There are these three camps in the end.
00:09:14 Speaker_02
One is very much led by the head, one by the balls and one by the heart. And it's very much about where and what we need to do to survive today. That's really what's at the heart of it.
00:09:24 Speaker_02
What do we need to listen to in ourselves to survive this crazy world? Yeah.
00:09:29 Speaker_08
Okay, now back to your crime. Do you have a couple? I'll just start. So I have two that are going to guarantee set me off. One is when people are incredibly earnest in the face of how hard it is to be earnest.
00:09:46 Speaker_08
The Olympians were flying to the Olympics, some team, and they decided to reenact the video for call me crazy, but here's my number. So call me, baby. And they had choreographed it on the plane and the cameras moving.
00:10:00 Speaker_08
Everyone jumps out of their seat and they're singing.
00:10:02 Speaker_06
It's just a group dance. Yes.
00:10:05 Speaker_08
Group dancing, this wedding proposal that was very much like that. I'm like, you know, there's so many assholes in the world that want to fucking beat you down for expressing that exact kind of thing.
00:10:14 Speaker_08
And when I see people be brave enough to just do it anyways, I could start crying. I'm like, that is so sweet that in this mean-ass world, you still sing, Call Me Crazy.
00:10:24 Speaker_02
Yeah, yeah. And there's an unapologetic joy and innocence, actually. It's people just going, I'm having fun. Not the sort of cynical, yeah, but am I cool? I get that. Absolutely.
00:10:34 Speaker_08
A, how well do you understand American schools and how much were the English schools like? My junior high, you just got fucking beat down if you showed any earnestness or you declared you liked something. Oh, same in the UK.
00:10:47 Speaker_02
Okay. I thought that was a very British thing. Enthusiasm? No way. Yes. I mean, to be passionate and kind of get it all over excited and people then be looking at you going, calm down.
00:10:57 Speaker_08
You were emasculated by liking something.
00:11:00 Speaker_02
That's right. That's very familiar to my experience of growing up, actually, because I am an enthusiast. I've realized, and unapologetically so, the older I get, I love allowing my enthusiasm to burst forth and sharing it.
00:11:12 Speaker_02
And I love seeing it in my kids. You know, I love it when they get overexcited about stuff. But it is interesting looking back over childhood. Do you have any daughters that are consuming Taylor Swift in front of you? Actually, I do.
00:11:24 Speaker_02
She said to me just the other day she was number one.
00:11:27 Speaker_08
I urge you to watch the ERA's movie with her. And experience it. Yeah. I took my 11-year-old to the theater to watch it, and about six minutes in, I stopped watching the movie and just stared at her in profile and wept the whole time.
00:11:40 Speaker_02
What is that zeitgeist that she's plugged into? It's very interesting, isn't it? Because I think I'm right in saying it's not planned. She's not manipulated it. It's very authentic and real.
00:11:50 Speaker_06
She's just so relatable to all eras of women and ages of women. As you said, it's not manufactured.
00:12:00 Speaker_02
No.
00:12:00 Speaker_06
But she is a brilliant business person.
00:12:03 Speaker_02
They can coexist, right? Absolutely. Authenticity and then just being able to see it as a business and monetize it. Yeah, Pulp Fiction was still a hit.
00:12:10 Speaker_06
And it's still genius and it's pure. It's just she knows, oh, this is how I connect. And she likes to, she talks to people. She holds these singing events for big fans. Like she really is connected and people feel very seen.
00:12:25 Speaker_08
I have seen the movie with my daughter and I went and saw her live. And so my conclusion, I think there's three things. One is she isn't Beyonce. Beyonce is this creature that fell out of the sky and she looks like that and she dances like that.
00:12:39 Speaker_08
And most people can't ever imagine themselves being that. So there's this kind of, wow, so how did she get there? Well, she got there through her gumption and hard work and her skills as a writer and her dedication. I could do that. I could be a star.
00:12:54 Speaker_08
That's, I think, a big part of the appeal. And then she might be the only true matriarchy that we can observe, that a little girl can observe, which is it's her fucking world. She's got the biggest tour in the world. She makes the rules.
00:13:09 Speaker_08
That's a fucking woman in total charge of everything. She's like her own one woman matriarchy. And I think that's really powerful.
00:13:17 Speaker_06
And she's not abusing it either.
00:13:19 Speaker_08
No. Yet. Yeah.
00:13:22 Speaker_02
We're just in the foothills of this.
00:13:25 Speaker_08
There'll be a hot pool boy at some point.
00:13:27 Speaker_02
Do you reckon it's linked also to something you just mentioned, which is the Olympic team performing in an unabashed way. There's also something uncool, weirdly, because of course she's ultimately cool, but there's also something uncool about her.
00:13:40 Speaker_02
I couldn't agree more. Which makes her incredibly cool. It's like, I'm having fun and I'm doing what I want to do. It's not considered to the element of like, Is this going to be seen as being overly considered?
00:13:50 Speaker_08
I think it's just very different than the other pop stars they were given, which are largely you either hit the genetic lottery or you didn't. I think that's very special. Yeah.
00:14:00 Speaker_08
What thing are your kids into that you've joined them in and got wrapped up in? Because for me, it's this swift thing. I went, I get it, I'm in. Well, by two little ones, Bluey. Bluey. I'm hearing that. I weep at Bluey. I love Bluey.
00:14:14 Speaker_02
You do.
00:14:15 Speaker_08
Tell me what happens in Bluey. That came right after my kids left that space. Nine and eleven.
00:14:19 Speaker_02
Yeah. So at an age where suddenly actually that is for little ones and they're not quite old enough to realize actually they can indulge themselves like a 50 year old guy. Right.
00:14:27 Speaker_08
But you're the second adult I've heard say they love Bluey.
00:14:30 Speaker_02
Bluey is At its heart, it's about families playing together, and enjoying each other's company, and making time for each other, and coming up with crazy make-believe games.
00:14:43 Speaker_02
And then there's occasionally little morals at the end of it, the kids teach the parents something, or the parents teach the kids something, or some kind of equation within that.
00:14:53 Speaker_02
It's got really good humor, and great heart, and it's made in Australia, and it's about an Aussie family of dogs. and it's got this beautiful Aussie grounded earthiness and humanity and they embrace the dad bandit wonderfully. Bandit.
00:15:07 Speaker_02
He's not an idiot. You know it's interesting if you look at quite a few of those kids shows, even Simpsons early on. There's a trope. And Pepper, the dad's a bit of an idiot. Oh dad. And in this one bandit, they laugh at him.
00:15:21 Speaker_02
And he is kind of smelly old dad, which, you know, is familiar to me. But he's right in the middle of the play and right in the middle of kind of being a bit of a hero, too. It's just got beautiful heart.
00:15:31 Speaker_02
They know the parents are watching and they know the parents need to be entertained, too, because kids are going to want to watch this every day if they're allowed. Those are such blessings when you can enjoy it. Yeah.
00:15:40 Speaker_02
So Bluey wrapped us up pretty tight as a little troupe. I'm going to give it a viewing. I want to see. It's well worth it.
00:15:47 Speaker_08
It's well worth it. I bet I'll cry.
00:15:49 Speaker_06
If I walk in and you're like, just on your own watching fluid.
00:15:53 Speaker_08
That's me. Okay. So if England is like the U.S. in smacking down earnestness, you start acting at 14? Kind of. Because people ask me like, did you know? I'm like, I stayed so far away from that drama department.
00:16:06 Speaker_02
I didn't want to get beat up by six guys. I was doing it out of school. It was more to do with my family. So my parents were teachers, but they were keen members of a local theater company.
00:16:16 Speaker_02
They were putting on plays and my house was always full of people kind of rehearsing and then I got involved as a kid and my sister got involved as a kid and it was just something we did.
00:16:24 Speaker_02
So to me it was this language that just felt very familiar and safe and fun and I loved watching adults goofing around and you were aware like, oh adults play as well, they can be silly and it made them really human and magical in a weird way because it felt like play.
00:16:38 Speaker_02
I said magical, I suppose, in that sort of Peter Pan type way, that it just felt like, oh, you don't have to necessarily grow up with earnestness or with some kind of sobriety. It could be goofy. But I left school at 17 to act.
00:16:50 Speaker_02
So at school school, I kept to myself. I was usually hiding under the stairs so I didn't get beat up. For real? Oh, yeah, for real. That's where I had my lunch. OK, hold on a second.
00:16:58 Speaker_08
Were you... We've had this in the past.
00:17:02 Speaker_06
You had one or two of you.
00:17:03 Speaker_02
The way you said that was like, it's OK, you're safe here.
00:17:05 Speaker_08
I feel like the appetizer just arrived and it smells delicious. We've had some heartthrobs on that didn't necessarily identify with that when they were younger. And that's a very fascinating thing.
00:17:17 Speaker_02
I get it. I look back now. I was very pretty. I was called Jude. I wanted to be an actor. And I was also pretty cocky. I fancied myself a bit, but you can't fight the whole school.
00:17:29 Speaker_02
So after a while you realize it's probably better to stay out of the way, especially when you're like 14 and the 18 year olds kind of want you to shut the fuck up.
00:17:38 Speaker_08
Also, when I was young and older girls like me, those older boys wanted to fuck you.
00:17:42 Speaker_02
can kill me. Older girls fancying this weird little kid.
00:17:45 Speaker_08
They don't get that. What's funny is what they like about you is that you're kind of artsy. So the solution to the other boys their age is like, I'm going to beat the shit out of them, show the opposite quality that she just told me she likes.
00:17:57 Speaker_08
That's right.
00:17:58 Speaker_02
I just squashed with my manhood under the stairs. It's taken me a while to remember that, and I was talking about it, I think, to one of my kids, and suddenly I remembered sitting under the stairs.
00:18:09 Speaker_02
And I had my friends with me, a couple of buddies who would come sit with me under the stairs, but it was just a lot easier. There's a funny thing about that relationship with the opposite sex at that age, because it's so uncharted.
00:18:22 Speaker_02
You don't really know what you're getting into. All the stimulation that you're getting is firing, but you don't necessarily know what it's leading to. Yeah. I'm talking pre-sex, obviously.
00:18:32 Speaker_02
That moment where you're getting something back, so that's good. What you're talking about is bringing something out of you.
00:18:37 Speaker_02
You can't even at that age necessarily say, I'm good at this, or this is what I'm going to be, or this is why people like, you know what I mean? It's all just happening. You're suddenly alive.
00:18:45 Speaker_08
I found that girls were such a refuge from the boyness. I'm with dudes all the time, and I'm jumping my bicycle, and I have to fight this other kid. And then I talk to these girls, And I could just be this whole other side of myself.
00:18:58 Speaker_02
And I love that side of myself. I have a fantastic big sister who was so generous with me, Natasha. Yeah, she's a painter and she's just an awesome human being. But I look back now, I can't believe how generous she was with me.
00:19:12 Speaker_02
she'd take me out with her girlfriends, take me to their parties. And that was a taste of what you're talking about, and a really influential mother too who was loving.
00:19:19 Speaker_02
But you're so right, and really looking back and discussing it like this, so sad that there are these poor guys who had no idea that that side of themselves existed or weren't allowed to show it or had any interest perhaps in investigating it.
00:19:33 Speaker_02
Just wanted to be the girl. Because I like that too. I was good at sport. I didn't mind a fight. I like getting my head bust, falling off things. But I love this other side too. And that to me made me good and whole.
00:19:45 Speaker_08
You were cute. You had an older sister. That's the biggest hack any boy can have is to have an older sister. Every boy I knew with an older sister did just fine. Interesting. But think of all these boys that weren't confident or they weren't good looking.
00:19:56 Speaker_08
It wasn't even an option for them.
00:19:57 Speaker_06
They go home and their dad is like, don't do that.
00:20:00 Speaker_02
One male to the next just passes it on. That's right. Don't show that. You're weak.
00:20:04 Speaker_06
Yeah. Don't let anyone see that.
00:20:06 Speaker_02
Don't let anyone see that.
00:20:06 Speaker_06
Put that doll away. And then, yeah, it just continues on and on until someone breaks that cycle.
00:20:11 Speaker_02
Yeah. Breaking the cycle, that's a big part of my family because my parents were both adopted. Both. Both were adopted. My dad actually literally, it's like something out of Charles Dickens, his childhood.
00:20:21 Speaker_02
And he had every excuse to be a total nightmare of a father because it was in his background. His life was one of being left behind, of being abandoned and sort of having nothing.
00:20:34 Speaker_02
He just turned out to be the most incredible dad, completely loved the family, devoted to it to the point actually where it was like, let me go. Yeah. My mum too.
00:20:44 Speaker_02
I bring up my parents a lot because I get really pissed off when people say, oh, well, this is what happened to their parents. It's a cycle. I'm like, you know what? That's a fucking excuse. You can always better yourself.
00:20:55 Speaker_02
You can always replace something or don't have to repeat something. I looked at him, he had it so tough. He had nothing and he totally turned it around.
00:21:04 Speaker_08
But it also makes sense if he didn't have that built-in family, that he would have cherished the one he built and not taken for granted because he didn't have it.
00:21:13 Speaker_02
And he was the youngest schoolmaster in London? Yeah, something like that at the time. Now, headteachers in the UK are very different to principals.
00:21:20 Speaker_02
They are still very much part of the teaching team and part of the ethos of the education environment and create more of the atmosphere of the school. And he was a very hands-on teacher. And that was in the 70s. He worked in an inner-city school.
00:21:33 Speaker_02
in an area of London where there's big black community and he would just be like, who wants to go camping this weekend? And kids would just meet, he'd take me to and we'd just drive out of the city and go camping. Eight kids, ten kids.
00:21:45 Speaker_02
That can't happen nowadays. Nowadays it's like you need all the documentation.
00:21:49 Speaker_08
I hate to say it, I'm not letting my male teacher teach. No, no, sure. Your dad was the good guy.
00:21:54 Speaker_02
He did it with my mom.
00:21:56 Speaker_08
I mean, they went as a couple. If they were both teachers, how did they feel about you dropping out of school?
00:22:03 Speaker_02
Well, they were passionate about theater and passionate about performance, so they knew that I was. And when the opportunity arose, the one conversation I remember us having was, look, if this doesn't work, will you go back? And I was like, of course.
00:22:14 Speaker_02
Did you leave for the soap opera?
00:22:16 Speaker_08
Yeah, you've done your homework. Listen to me. One of my favorite things to talk to actors about is actors who've been on soap operas because, at least in America, they shoot like 100 pages a day. Yeah. It seems like the most insane experience.
00:22:31 Speaker_02
If you think about it, what a great place to learn.
00:22:33 Speaker_04
Fuck yes!
00:22:35 Speaker_02
I had done a bit of theater. I wanted to act. Someone saw something in me, asked me to audition for this thing. I auditioned, I got it.
00:22:41 Speaker_02
Next thing, exactly as you point out, I'm in this machine that's churning out, demanding I know what the hell is going on. I don't know what a mark is. Find you a light? What are you talking about? And learn the lines and deliver.
00:22:53 Speaker_08
Do they have the same crazy schedule in England as they have here?
00:22:56 Speaker_02
Oh yeah.
00:22:56 Speaker_08
And do they pay you okay?
00:22:58 Speaker_02
Were you like 17 going like, I'm fucking rich. We didn't have a lot, you know, we were never wanting as kids, but we didn't like, you know, have much money coming in. Teacher parents. I couldn't believe it.
00:23:08 Speaker_02
You know, what were you doing with all that green and 70s spending? Did you spend any of it? Blowing it. Clothes? Or did you buy a cool car? No, I didn't drive for a while. A lot of records, clothes, just going out. Oh, yeah. Bringing friends.
00:23:19 Speaker_09
Going out with friends.
00:23:21 Speaker_02
Probably never got better. Oh my goodness. I was 17 living in Manchester in 1988. The hacienda was down the road. There was the rise of stone roses and the happy Mondays and it was a lot of fun.
00:23:34 Speaker_06
Suck it under the stairwell. You came very far. Even then, you could have ended your career then.
00:23:42 Speaker_08
I ran from the stairwell. So you were in Manchester making that, so you had your own flat, I presume?
00:23:47 Speaker_02
I did. I mean, can you imagine? And that they were paying for, you know, they paid my rent. Oh my lord. This is fun to talk about this. What's nice is with enough time passed, you look back and go, damn.
00:23:59 Speaker_08
Yeah. And you want to run from it, right? I came out on a show called Punk'd, which was a reality show. And I didn't want anyone to bring that up for like 10 years.
00:24:07 Speaker_02
Isn't it funny? Because it sits too close. It's like looking at photos of yourself when you're a kid and you've only just turned like 15. You kind of go, I'm an adult now. I don't look like that anymore. I'm a big boy now. Yeah.
00:24:18 Speaker_02
It was a very formative time. And I love that you bring up the actual technical demands. They're a big part of what you're learning from. I went from that back to theater. I learned so much from that job. Yeah, you probably shot more. Is that water?
00:24:32 Speaker_02
Yes, it is.
00:24:33 Speaker_06
Looks like beer, but it is water. Yeah, it sure does.
00:24:36 Speaker_08
We can get one of those for you, too, if you want. Really get you crying. Yeah. Nine or 10 of them in you.
00:24:41 Speaker_02
I'm cheering up now. I'm not going to cry, I'm afraid.
00:24:43 Speaker_08
You're cheering me up too much.
00:24:44 Speaker_06
Oh, man, Dax.
00:24:45 Speaker_08
But if you added it up in two years, you probably did more content than you did for the next eight years doing features. It's true. I did it for a good few years. You probably did several hundred hours of acting.
00:25:01 Speaker_06
And how was your ego then? Were you insufferable? Yeah. I think most people would have been at that age. 17 with their own apartment.
00:25:09 Speaker_08
Going to the pub and you're fucking buying rounds and shit.
00:25:12 Speaker_02
That's a really good. question, and I'll be absolutely honest, one I've not kind of thought about. Oddly, actually, I think I would be right in saying that my ego was probably a little more out of control before I got that job.
00:25:25 Speaker_02
And I was a member of like the youth theatre company. When I got into the theatre and doing all this stuff as a kid, I felt so confident that I'd found my place and sort of fitted in.
00:25:34 Speaker_02
And it was so different to that experience of school that suddenly I was like, I could fly. I knew I was pretty good at it.
00:25:40 Speaker_04
Yeah.
00:25:41 Speaker_02
I knew I was good and I was getting good parts and I was getting good response, but I wasn't in the professional domain.
00:25:47 Speaker_02
Once I stepped into that and there were adults suddenly in this show and there were people who had huge experience, I was always quick to sit back and be very happy to learn and watch.
00:25:58 Speaker_02
Having said that, I have a very clear memory of one of the women in it who was slightly older than me, just by a few years, but I remember telling me to cool my boots. But she was probably just nagging you because she liked you.
00:26:10 Speaker_06
Yeah, probably. That's my guess in retrospect.
00:26:13 Speaker_08
I think she was probably right.
00:26:14 Speaker_06
What if it was like Cate Blanchett? You'd just go, yes Cate, sorry.
00:26:19 Speaker_08
Well, you basically just described, you were like a star college athlete and then you got to the NBA and you're like, I need to recalculate just a bit. I'm going to have to learn a bit.
00:26:28 Speaker_02
It's interesting too, isn't it, when you're a kid in an adult world, but you're being paid So you're being treated like an adult, as you should be. I've got to really step up here, behave like an adult, fit in like an adult, watch and learn.
00:26:42 Speaker_02
Yeah, they're not taking it easy on anyone. Not with that kind of schedule. No, even if they wanted to. I remember being late once. I think it's like the only time I've ever been late because I could just tell it was not done.
00:26:54 Speaker_02
And that's never happened again.
00:26:56 Speaker_08
OK, so you leave that and then you get yourself in a play that ends up in the West End and then ultimately Broadway with a different title and a little bit of reworking. You have a couple kind of breakthroughs and that play certainly, yeah.
00:27:10 Speaker_08
You win a Lawrence Olivier award at some point.
00:27:13 Speaker_02
Or something like that. Newcomer award. That was a game changer. I'd done a bunch of theater. leading up to that in these wonderful, what we call off West End, like off Broadway, theatre houses around London.
00:27:25 Speaker_02
Most of them tended to be above pubs, but very famous theatres at the gate, the Royal Court upstairs and several others. That was a place I really learnt my chops.
00:27:35 Speaker_02
I mean, that was doing proper theatre with fantastic directors and actors around me and the discipline of theatre. which is so much an actor's medium, learning how to turn up every night and deliver it and really feel the room.
00:27:48 Speaker_02
And that led to Les Parents Terribles, which I did at the National Theatre. Yeah. And then it became Indiscretion. Indiscretion. They thought that the Broadway audience wouldn't understand Les Parents Terribles. So they called it Indiscretion.
00:28:00 Speaker_02
Stupid Americans. They might have been right.
00:28:02 Speaker_08
Because when I read the title of it this morning, I was like, I don't know what the fuck that means, but I know I do. I said they should have just called it The Terrible Parents. Yeah, there we go. I could have got on board with that.
00:28:11 Speaker_08
But then you go and you do it on Broadway and there's some great people in that cast, right? Yeah, they recast and asked me to join the cast. Were you the only person who went over?
00:28:22 Speaker_02
Yeah, that was a little awkward. Yeah, did you feel like survivor's guilt from that? I did. Only in front of the ones that I was leaving behind.
00:28:31 Speaker_08
Then when you met these other folks, you're like, thank fucking God they replaced.
00:28:34 Speaker_02
It was an amazing experience actually doing it again because you know a piece and it's in your system and then you get to re-rehearse it, rediscover it with a whole new group of people.
00:28:45 Speaker_08
I have never noticed this about you in the past, but now that we're sitting face-to-face, you have the exact same eyes as Joaquin. Really? Has anyone ever told you that? No. Fuck, it's driving me wild.
00:28:58 Speaker_02
That's crazy.
00:28:58 Speaker_08
That's fun.
00:28:59 Speaker_02
That's interesting. Yeah. That's exciting. I don't really know Joaquin. I've met him a couple of times years ago. I don't really know him, know him.
00:29:08 Speaker_06
I'm surprised you guys haven't worked together.
00:29:10 Speaker_02
Yeah.
00:29:11 Speaker_08
There's not a flame retardant enough lens to capture them both in a two shot without the thing fucking exploding.
00:29:17 Speaker_06
Although he's been in the movie with my boyfriend.
00:29:21 Speaker_08
Oh, we're going to get to that. His big breakthrough. Her boyfriend's Matt Damon.
00:29:24 Speaker_06
Oh, you'll have to check out the bathroom. Don't tell Lucy.
00:29:27 Speaker_08
Don't tell Lucy. Okay.
00:29:28 Speaker_06
There's a big standee of Matt in the bathroom.
00:29:30 Speaker_08
Kissing Monica on the floor.
00:29:32 Speaker_06
Pretty good.
00:29:34 Speaker_08
A standee?
00:29:35 Speaker_06
Yeah. Oh yeah.
00:29:35 Speaker_08
Should we bring it out?
00:29:37 Speaker_06
Yeah, let's pull him out for this interview. He won't mind.
00:29:40 Speaker_08
Let's get him on the scene. You're gonna like this. I've known Monica for a long time and I've never ever seen this look on her face. Look at that.
00:29:51 Speaker_02
That's just fantastic. I gotta tell you, he looks comfortable and he looks very happy.
00:29:56 Speaker_06
I like to think so. You know what's weird? I'm wearing this skirt in that, you can't see it, but I think that's the last time I wore this skirt.
00:30:04 Speaker_02
Oh wow, well good for you because you're a lucky skirt.
00:30:07 Speaker_08
I guess so. Oh my God, I'm expecting a shot with you and Jude that's going to rival that.
00:30:11 Speaker_06
Maybe we'll get a second. It's a talented Mr. Ripley skirt.
00:30:14 Speaker_08
It makes me proud of you because you buy a lot of clothes and I worry you're not wearing the ones you've already bought and this demonstrates that you
00:30:20 Speaker_06
That's a fair worry.
00:30:21 Speaker_08
Once every five years do that.
00:30:22 Speaker_06
Yeah, sure.
00:30:25 Speaker_02
When did it start? What was the performance and why?
00:30:28 Speaker_08
Good Will Hunting.
00:30:30 Speaker_02
It was what? Good Will Hunting. Oh, yeah.
00:30:32 Speaker_06
Yes. And I watched it so many times. VHS. I just watched it and rewound it and watch it and rewound it. And I could like watch it in my head. I had seen it so much.
00:30:42 Speaker_08
In school she would be in class and just watch the movie from beginning to end.
00:30:45 Speaker_06
Kind of like just glaze over and just watch it.
00:30:47 Speaker_02
On the inside.
00:30:48 Speaker_06
On the inside of my eyelids.
00:30:50 Speaker_02
There's a connection between that character and a little bit of what we're talking about or have been, isn't there? The guy breaking the mold, the guy who could end up on one path and actually needs to rewire and he makes his own path.
00:31:03 Speaker_08
Also, my conclusion, I have a theory on everything, as you'll learn. That was one of my favorite movies as well. It was my girlfriend of nine years and I's first date was going to see that movie. So it was also special for that reason.
00:31:14 Speaker_08
But I left and I was like, why is that movie so powerful? I think it's because we all think we're special and we're just waiting for someone to notice. And he was just so special and no one would notice. And he's a janitor.
00:31:26 Speaker_08
And then finally, and I think there was some wish fulfillment. in that movie that was really sweet, which is like, I'm special too. This could happen to me in some version.
00:31:34 Speaker_06
I'm a genius too.
00:31:35 Speaker_08
And even if it's not intellectual, it's just, I'm worthy of someone finally acknowledging I'm special.
00:31:41 Speaker_06
We all want that.
00:31:42 Speaker_08
We do. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Audible. Audible's best of 2024 picks are here. Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio entertainment.
00:32:06 Speaker_08
Like a stunning new full cast production of George Orwell's 1984. This is the one I am most excited to indulge myself with.
00:32:15 Speaker_06
I'm so excited to listen to James, which is a new title by Percival Efret that is very, very hot right now.
00:32:24 Speaker_08
Well, there's so many good ones on the list.
00:32:26 Speaker_06
We love Audible. This is how you go to bed.
00:32:28 Speaker_08
I love Audible, I swear by Audible. I can't wait to listen to the Orwell 1984 off this list. I'm also doing Flea's autobiography right now, which I'm obsessed with. I can't get enough Audible in my life, every night.
00:32:40 Speaker_08
Go to audible.com slash dax and discover all the year's best waiting for you. That's audible.com slash dax. We are supported by Sonos. Sonos is the world's leading sound experience company.
00:32:55 Speaker_08
They invented the smart sound system that makes it easy to play anything in any room, which we love. Sonos was the star of our Halloween party. I had it playing outside by the guest house. I had it playing in the garden. I had it playing in the kitchen.
00:33:09 Speaker_08
Kept the party rocking no matter where you moved.
00:33:11 Speaker_06
It makes a big difference.
00:33:13 Speaker_08
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00:33:22 Speaker_08
And with holiday gift season upon us, Sonos products are a perfect solution for that hard-to-buy-for person on your gift list.
00:33:30 Speaker_06
They've got amazing Ace headphones, and since, you know, we are podcasters, if you know any arm cherries in your life... Really smart. It's a great gift for them so that they can really get us in their ears properly.
00:33:42 Speaker_08
Whether you gift a sleek soundbar, a sturdy portable speaker, or our favorite headphones, your lucky gift recipient is sure to be impressed. Sonos has great gifts for everyone on your list.
00:33:53 Speaker_08
Visit sonos.com forward slash dax to wrap up your holiday shopping. That's sonos.com slash dax. We are supported by Addy.
00:34:04 Speaker_06
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00:34:06 Speaker_08
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00:34:17 Speaker_06
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00:34:43 Speaker_00
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00:34:55 Speaker_00
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00:36:12 Speaker_08
I got to give a personal stamp of approval. It's so good.
00:36:16 Speaker_06
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00:36:34 Speaker_02
I realize there's a bit of a connection there to my father's story, actually. I wonder whether he's seen that recently. He was given a chance to sort of walk away from a life that would have taken him on a completely different path.
00:36:44 Speaker_02
He got that opportunity and he took it. Yeah, it runs deep, that film. And they wrote it.
00:36:49 Speaker_06
That's the part that's like, oh, I bet that was the clinching.
00:36:51 Speaker_02
When you saw it and you loved him. Not only was this kind of movie star performance, the guy wrote it, which means he's really bright. Yes. And he went to Harvard.
00:36:59 Speaker_06
Yeah, and he's so funny and hot. Yeah.
00:37:02 Speaker_08
He's so strong, too. You see School Ties? No. Is that the one he was in right before?
00:37:06 Speaker_06
He was in School Ties. But actually, with Talented Mr. Ripley, I know we're not there yet.
00:37:11 Speaker_08
We're really close, though.
00:37:12 Speaker_06
OK.
00:37:12 Speaker_08
This play he does where he gets nominated for a Tony. I can land the plane on that. And that opens up the door to Talented Mr. Ripley. Proceed.
00:37:19 Speaker_06
Well, I was just going to say, because I was so in love with him, that movie was tough. For me, he's so good in it, but he's so disturbing.
00:37:27 Speaker_08
Yeah, creepy.
00:37:28 Speaker_06
And that's not who I needed him to be.
00:37:30 Speaker_08
And he's gay, so he's not looking for you.
00:37:32 Speaker_06
That wasn't really the issue, it was more the real creepiness factor. And you were so good in it that I'm like, who do I, what's going on?
00:37:39 Speaker_08
Oh shit, now I kind of like my boyfriend's boyfriend.
00:37:42 Speaker_06
Yeah, yeah, it was too confusing.
00:37:43 Speaker_02
It was a lot for little old me. But he played it with Such a charming innocence. It was so interesting seeing the Andrew Scott version because it's like Shakespeare, good material can be interpreted in any way and they were just not related.
00:38:00 Speaker_02
I mean, it was so interesting. And Andrew found this sort of sinister psychopathy. Was that the new one? Yeah, the one on TV. Which was great, yeah. And you're right, completely opposite. Matt always played it like, oh, Please don't make me kill you.
00:38:13 Speaker_02
Oh, I'm so sorry. He apologized, smiling while he's doing it. Like, oh, I'm in this jam again. And I guess I was just going to have to kill you. It was kind of loose and creepy.
00:38:25 Speaker_08
It actually made it more believable you would have been sucked into his whole thing from the get go. So does that opportunity come directly off the heels of that play?
00:38:33 Speaker_02
I know you were in Gattaca. Gattaca was a big turning point. I was really only doing theater and film just wasn't on my radar. I didn't really know how one got into film.
00:38:43 Speaker_02
And I loved theater and I was happy in theater, so it didn't feel like it was something I was seeking out. But a couple of little films came my way in the UK.
00:38:51 Speaker_02
that led to Gattaca, which took me to Hollywood for the first time, coming and living here and making a film and rehearsing and shooting at the studios. Did you get on with Ethan? Oh, so well.
00:39:01 Speaker_02
I mean, Ethan was another great teacher in a way, generous and a great leader and enthusiastic and smart.
00:39:09 Speaker_08
Talk about a guy who is chasing everything and critics be damned. I like poetry. I like music.
00:39:15 Speaker_02
written two books and just a great inspiration to be around for me at that early formative time. And then I did a few of these little movies. You also had Night of the... Oh yeah, Clint Eastwood, Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. Yeah, yeah.
00:39:29 Speaker_02
Which became weirdly... Yeah, it did.
00:39:32 Speaker_08
It did. I know. You're playing a gay lover of Kevin Spacey who he murders.
00:39:38 Speaker_02
Yeah, that's kind of weird. Moving on. Next project. Ripley came about.
00:39:49 Speaker_06
Chugging along.
00:39:49 Speaker_02
There's no way of moving on from that subtly.
00:39:54 Speaker_08
I mean, it's as crazy as you having been in a movie with Bill Cosby and it was about him fucking drugging you. I mean, that's how bonkers that is, but we'll move on.
00:40:02 Speaker_06
That would be a question for Kevin Spacey. Acting in a film where you're also doing it secretly? Whoa. Let's be clear, he hasn't killed anyone, though. That we know of, allegedly.
00:40:14 Speaker_08
Allegedly, yes. Allegedly, he hasn't killed anyone. You don't hear that often. No, you don't. Allegedly, he hasn't murdered anyone. Is that legally? Yes. Freeing? Yeah, you have to say allegedly.
00:40:25 Speaker_06
Say allegedly to anything. Yeah, before and after any sentence. You're fine.
00:40:29 Speaker_08
Remember you said you liked my house and the next time you see me I don't have it anymore. That'll answer that question.
00:40:36 Speaker_01
Dax, you downsized!
00:40:38 Speaker_08
Well, someone made that decision for me. And I guess in a way I made it for myself. Anyways. Okay. So how do you meet Mangello?
00:40:46 Speaker_02
I'm making a film that is being produced by his wife. This is at the point in my career life when I'm in my early twenties. I'm just happy to be asked to work. Are you going to pay me too? Great, I'll turn up.
00:40:56 Speaker_02
It was from Hong Kong, it was this weird film, kind of a vampire film really, but they never kind of named him as a vampire, but he was sort of addicted to women's blood and you couldn't work out whether he was just a psychopath.
00:41:07 Speaker_02
Anyway, doing this oddball film and Anthony's watching the rushes over Carolyn's shoulders. And he's casting Ripley and just reaches out and says, I think you'd be great for this role. Wow. And that's how it started.
00:41:20 Speaker_02
And foolishly at the time, I'm thinking, I just want to be taken seriously as an actor. I've got so much to prove. I had this foolish agent at a time who said, look, this is just a kind of pretty boy role. Are you sure you want to go there?
00:41:31 Speaker_02
It'd be a big introduction to Hollywood, but you'll just be the kind of golden boy. And for a moment I thought, maybe not. Maybe I shouldn't do this.
00:41:38 Speaker_08
Did you tell him to his face? I don't think I can do this, Anthony.
00:41:42 Speaker_02
I don't remember. I just remember there being a moment where he came and saw me and we, over a period of days, because I was filming still, he would come and hang out and we would talk about it.
00:41:53 Speaker_02
He was pulling together this incredible cast, all of whom I knew, but they weren't household names. Cate Blanchett. Had she done Elizabeth? We were all just on the cusp. Philip Seymour Hoffman. He hadn't even done Boogie Nights.
00:42:04 Speaker_02
He had probably done Happiness and Twister. And Hard Eight? Oh yeah, Heartache. It was Heartache, P.T. Anderson's first film, early film. And Gwyneth had just done Shakespeare in Love. Wow. He was pulling together this incredible group.
00:42:18 Speaker_08
When you list those people in that junction, it's almost like the outsiders. It's like every one of you.
00:42:23 Speaker_02
Yeah, that's wild. Ended up doing huge stuff. Interesting, huh?
00:42:26 Speaker_08
Yeah. So of that cast, Matt was the big star. Yeah. It already sounds that you're this way. I know you do it with directors. I read enough about you. You really do avail yourself to instruction.
00:42:39 Speaker_02
What I've realized more and more is I'm just a very keen student. I love learning and I hope improving at what I do. And to me, film is a director's medium and I'm in their film. So what do you want from me and how do you want to get there?
00:42:54 Speaker_02
a process, but I do a lot of that on my own. I don't then impose that on what you want from me. And to me, each experience is an opportunity to say, okay, how do we do this? How do you do this? But Matt was absolutely the lead of that movie.
00:43:07 Speaker_02
And if anything, the challenge for me that I remember going through with Ant was to find the confidence to be that confident guy and have that swagger. Well, you got to be the dude that the movie star Matt Damon's in love with and wants to be.
00:43:21 Speaker_02
That's right. Anthony kept saying, I want you to glow, I want you to shine. And so finding that kind of sense of confidence, security, was a challenge.
00:43:30 Speaker_02
Obviously, it changed my life because the film was successful and critically acclaimed, but it changed my life also because Ant taught me about unleashing certain qualities in myself that I had, I think, probably locked away, actually.
00:43:42 Speaker_02
It felt like a kind of superpower. that I've been scared to handle, which is sort of just turn on the charisma chops.
00:43:50 Speaker_08
Do you think you were learning like, okay, you're not supposed to do this in real life, but it's permissible here in this space. I can do all the things I've trained myself to stop doing. That's it. It's like going back to the
00:44:01 Speaker_08
cocky kid who all the older girls like? Yeah, I guess it is.
00:44:04 Speaker_02
No, I was going to say it goes back to the board. You rewire and you think, oh, I'm allowed to turn all that stuff on that's been shut away. And it's similar, I suppose, when you play someone who's, say, very dark or sinister.
00:44:19 Speaker_02
It's like opening up those chambers. You peek in there and you think, oh, I've got to keep a lid on that. But it's interesting. It is allowed in this environment. It's a safe environment for you to unleash.
00:44:29 Speaker_08
I'll say you were given two gifts. One is you have a director who's already directed The English Patient. You know you're safe to do whatever and you'll be protected. That's not a gift a lot of young actors have from a director.
00:44:40 Speaker_02
No, that's so true and it's something I've learned.
00:44:42 Speaker_02
In a way you evaluate that at every juncture in film because sometimes you're looking at a project and a young director and you're thinking, well you haven't proven yourself yet but there's something here and I know it's a risk and it could be three months just down the drain.
00:44:57 Speaker_02
But let's go for it. And then other times, like a Ron Howard situation where you just go, well, this is Ron Howard. This guy makes films for breakfast.
00:45:04 Speaker_02
I'm going to learn and I can really just get on with what I've got to do because I know I'm in great hands. And absolutely with Ant, that was the first time I was aware that was the case. Right.
00:45:13 Speaker_02
I have worked with a couple of decent directors before that. I think I was too young to recognize that I was in these qualified hands in a safe environment.
00:45:21 Speaker_08
Yeah, I'll never forget the first time that happened to me as I was working for Mike Judge, someone I idolize. And I'm like, if he tells me to stick a banana straight up my ass, then pull it out and peel it and eat it, I will do it.
00:45:32 Speaker_08
I actually trust his sense of comedy more than my own.
00:45:34 Speaker_02
And it's a very fun feeling. It is a fun feeling. It's operating on so many levels because it's incredibly empowering that you're there anyway. You suddenly realize, oh, I really rate this person and they must rate me because here I am.
00:45:46 Speaker_02
And they're just telling me to do my stuff. And that alone emboldens you and empowers you. Well, you have to buy in.
00:45:52 Speaker_08
At first you think, oh, this person fucked up. This person, I feel like, thinks I can do something that I probably can't.
00:45:58 Speaker_02
You have to buy in. I think that's what was going on in those early moments of fear that, oh, I have to be really confident. I have to step up. Do you know who taught me a lot in that environment was Philip.
00:46:08 Speaker_02
Philip was so shocking to me because he was kind of rude. Yeah, he didn't have the best bedside manner, right? No. I'm someone who needs a really kind of safe, cozy atmosphere to feel like, OK, I can make a fool of myself here. I can cry. I'm safe.
00:46:20 Speaker_02
He quite liked it a little prickly, or at least in the films I made with him. And what was interesting was he taught me that it's whatever it takes to get the truth, whatever it takes to make it real.
00:46:30 Speaker_02
I remember I had this amazing scene in Cold Mountain where it's the middle of the night, it's like 2 a.m., it's getting cold. They've converted this whole town down in North Carolina back to the period. So there's mud all over the street.
00:46:44 Speaker_02
And I've got this huge 18 hand horse in one hand and a gun in the other. And the scene is I've got to move him down this street, but I've got no hands. Anthony says, action from down the end of the road.
00:46:54 Speaker_02
And he just turns around and goes, I'm not moving. That's what Philip said. So I had to kick him so hard to make the scene work. And of course it was just real. Yeah. But most people have been like, oh, pretend he just looked at me. I ain't moving.
00:47:09 Speaker_02
And so suddenly it was like, we're going to really do this, OK?
00:47:13 Speaker_08
Did you meet Ethan on that movie, Suplee? You probably never worked together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's one of my best friends.
00:47:18 Speaker_02
Are you kidding me? He's a lovely man. There was a very fond memory of that whole experience because, true to Ant, he created a real family atmosphere. And we were there in Romania
00:47:30 Speaker_02
for many, many months because he wanted everyone to really play the music. Jack White's in it playing guitar, the brilliant Brendan Gleeson was playing the fiddle, Ethan learnt guitar or banjo or something.
00:47:40 Speaker_02
So we were all hanging out playing and singing those beautiful bluegrass tunes and he was a joy to be around.
00:47:45 Speaker_08
Yeah, special.
00:47:46 Speaker_02
Oh, he's heartbreaking in that film. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The scene when they shoot him stopped smiling at me. Oh, it's so sad.
00:47:53 Speaker_06
Your resume is insane.
00:47:54 Speaker_02
Yeah, it's pretty bonkers.
00:47:55 Speaker_06
We're just like talking about random ones. I'm like, oh yeah, that, oh yeah.
00:47:58 Speaker_08
What I think is unique about yours, I wonder if you agree, the great gift of your 25 years doing this is inordinate amount of really special directors. Clint Eastwood, Soderbergh I worship, Spielberg right out of the gates.
00:48:12 Speaker_08
You've gotten to sit front row a couple of times Scorsese. I know, crazy. Yeah, that's rare. I think even for huge movie stars, they've had three or four of the legends, and you've really been with a lot of them.
00:48:24 Speaker_02
Yeah, fun.
00:48:26 Speaker_08
So after Ripley, and I already know because I've read, but your 20s, it's like you need to, I wouldn't even advise 20 year olds to not do this, but boy, you care so goddamn much. You're so certain of where you've got to go and what you can't be.
00:48:39 Speaker_08
And so how hung up out of 10 were you about being good looking in movies?
00:48:50 Speaker_02
Listen, it was something that was also a crutch to lean on, but I realized looking back, I was in my head so much, and insecure, but also desperately ambitious to be recognized in an art form I love.
00:49:04 Speaker_02
Growing up watching Sean Penn, Gary Oldman, Daniel Day Lewis, Tim Roth, these actors who I just wanted to
00:49:11 Speaker_02
flex my acting muscle as much as them and show my ability to do different things and play different parts, that it just felt like this distraction.
00:49:20 Speaker_02
And that if that's what people were thinking or if that's all they were saying, or, oh, it's a great part, he's this beautiful guy.
00:49:25 Speaker_02
I just thought immediately, Christ, this is all going to fall apart if that's it, if that's the perception that is out there.
00:49:31 Speaker_08
It's the great comedy of life, though, because it's like when you're Oldman, you're like, well, fuck, if I look like Harrison Ford, I'd be indie. If you're you, you think this.
00:49:38 Speaker_08
We all got this stupid fucking story, and we got to be someone else other than ourselves. It's comical because it's happening to everyone. Brad Pitt's knocking his tooth out to be in Fight Club, so no one thinks he's gorgeous.
00:49:50 Speaker_02
Yeah, grass being green. I know it's a bizarre journey. And then the dust settles as you head into your kind of late 40s. You look back and think, shit, I don't look like that anymore. Hey, just give me a couple more chances.
00:50:03 Speaker_02
If I just get a little nip and tuck.
00:50:05 Speaker_08
Yeah. Give me one more round. Yeah. My wife will say like, I should have done a lot of nudity before. So you get past the point where you're trying to fight. You're going to want me to get naked. I don't want to get naked.
00:50:17 Speaker_08
And then you can say, fuck man, I blew it. I looked hot as shit. I should have been naked in everything I did. Okay. So the one I want to talk to you about, because I read the biography and I don't know if you have, but the Mike Nichols biography.
00:50:30 Speaker_08
Oh yeah. I read it. Isn't it wonderful. What a book. And I don't really read many Hollywood books, but enough people told me.
00:50:35 Speaker_02
You know, I had to read that because I wanted him in the room one more time. He was the most beautiful man. I remember before I worked with him, Ant actually knew him and said, you wait, you are going to hear the best stories.
00:50:48 Speaker_02
You are going to laugh more than you thought possible. And he was absolutely right. this guy's warmth and humor and perspective on the world and then add to that this boundlessly generous intellect.
00:51:00 Speaker_02
You know, really smart people that make you feel smart rather than make you feel stupid. They kind of bring you into their perspective and share it. And then all these crazy stories. I mean, also so naughty, like so much bad behavior.
00:51:13 Speaker_02
The guy was a functioning crack addict while directing.
00:51:17 Speaker_08
Addicted to hellacine and losing all of his finance. I mean, he was on a wild fucking ride. He touched every cornerstone.
00:51:25 Speaker_02
He did it all. And would talk openly. The rehearsal process for Close Up was mostly him. And I realize now what genius it was. He was just talking about his experiences and making us all like hoot with laughter about his loves and losses and tragedies.
00:51:43 Speaker_02
And what he was doing was creating an environment that was totally safe and free where when we then reenacted this pretty hardcore drama about falling in love and splitting up. We were safe. Oh my God, we laughed so much.
00:51:55 Speaker_02
And another thing he did, after we shot the film, a couple of years later, we'd stayed in touch and I'd seen him a few times, and I was in a bit of a dark spot in my personal life, a little bit down, and I felt like work had gone a little awry, and I just felt like I was in a blip.
00:52:09 Speaker_02
I remember he reached out to me and took me out for this incredible lunch. It's like he just fucking knew and gave me this incredible, generous perspective on life and the pendulum nature of life. It swings here and then it swings back there.
00:52:22 Speaker_02
You just know it's going to swing back the next way. Just hold on. And it was beautiful and very warm and much, much needed.
00:52:29 Speaker_08
That makes me so happy that he lived up for you to the guy I read about in the book. And I was completely ignorant on Mike Nichols other than I had seen his movies. I thought he was a movie director. I didn't know he had been a humongous comedian.
00:52:41 Speaker_02
Have you listened to them since? You must go and listen to Nichols and May recordings. I haven't.
00:52:45 Speaker_02
You can buy the recordings of their radio shows and you must look up on YouTube there's an acceptance speech I think at the Emmys or something where Elaine May presents the award for mundanity and Michael jumps up. runs down and receives this award.
00:53:04 Speaker_02
But the two of them were rocket ships of intellect and humor.
00:53:08 Speaker_08
Groundbreaking comedians. Yeah. Embarrassingly, I didn't even know that he came from being a comic. I mean, this fucking guy gets put on a boat at six years old with his little brother by himself crossing the ocean. He's got Alopecia.
00:53:21 Speaker_08
And the fact that that dude turned all that into everything he did.
00:53:25 Speaker_02
To break the gates of comedy the way he did and trample a new path and then say, I'm going to direct films. And does Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? The Graduate, Catch 22, onwards.
00:53:35 Speaker_08
I mean, what a talent. Oh, unbelievable. I recommend everyone read that book, even if you're not into movies or any of that. What a life story to me, because I'm an addict. To me, the crack smoking is the best fucking part.
00:53:46 Speaker_08
Insightful, you mean, to who he was? Yeah, just I was a really high functioning addict myself, and I was getting A's at UCLA and getting into the groundlings and also smoking crack on the weekends. I applaud anyone who can juggle those fucking balls.
00:54:00 Speaker_08
I mean, I couldn't. I had to retire at 29 from it. But I find that to be one of the most fascinating aspects of it is how much he was juggling.
00:54:08 Speaker_02
But equally, I can fully understand and I can recognize that need for everything. It's appetite for life, but it's also addiction. But it's how do I stop this? I want to consume it all.
00:54:20 Speaker_02
I want to feel it at the max until you realize it's at the detriment of health.
00:54:24 Speaker_08
Yeah, I want life to be an all-you-can-eat bar. And I'm just going back up, up, up, up.
00:54:28 Speaker_02
Yeah, yeah. I thought you were going to say all-you-can-eat buffet. Yeah, buffet, bar.
00:54:31 Speaker_08
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Why don't they just put fried chicken out? You already eat spaghetti. I don't give a fuck. Okay, let's go back. Yeah! Chicken legs. Oh my god, they have banana splits at this place? I'm having that too! With toppings.
00:54:42 Speaker_08
I don't want to miss a thing.
00:54:42 Speaker_06
Do you relate on the spectrum, if Dax is a 10, which I think he is, where would you land on this needing
00:54:50 Speaker_02
to gobble up everything. Yeah. I've definitely gotten better, but there was a time in my life when I was way up at sort of seven, eight. Did you ever scare yourself? Yeah. And I still do a little bit. I'm an Englishman, so I like a drink.
00:55:01 Speaker_02
It's your birthright. But then you get to an age where it's like, oh, this is a young man's game. It's got to stop. Young person's game. Sorry.
00:55:09 Speaker_06
Yeah, because I drink as well.
00:55:12 Speaker_08
She's on the ladder. Yeah, I get to observe people who stuck with it. I say this a lot. I feel worse for people who can ride the line of moderation plus because you don't have wreckage.
00:55:23 Speaker_08
There's really nothing you can point at to say this is taking more than it gives. But for everybody, even if you're moderate, there comes a point at an age where it actually is taking a little more than it's giving.
00:55:34 Speaker_02
And that's hard. You're absolutely right. And I think a lot of that is also just how long you've been doing it. You get middle-aged and you just think, yeah, I'd just feel so much better if I didn't.
00:55:43 Speaker_02
And the problem is the social reliance, the crutch it offers socially.
00:55:48 Speaker_08
The lubricant.
00:55:49 Speaker_02
Is all those more years ingrained. The idea of going, oh, I've got to learn to go to these things sober. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm 50. I know. That's terrible.
00:55:59 Speaker_08
I just won't go. Or how about my big thing was vacation. I remember going with my girlfriend on vacation. I'm like, Well, what in the fuck are we going to do for seven days? I know what's supposed to happen.
00:56:09 Speaker_08
We go to the bar, we get a few drinks, we meet weirdos, we end up doing this. That's the key you turn. I don't need plans. I need to check and diets. That's the plan. That for me was the hardest where it's like, I don't really even know what to do.
00:56:22 Speaker_08
I don't have a game plan to amuse myself without this.
00:56:25 Speaker_02
There's a pattern, isn't there, to, well, I can only talk for myself. When it works, waiting for the time when you go, well, I'll reset then. Because I'm really good at keeping fit and healthy. It's a big part of my life. I love training. I love running.
00:56:38 Speaker_02
I love swimming.
00:56:39 Speaker_08
Well, it shows. Your physique looks fantastic. I have a note I'll get to in your new movie about your buns, but we'll earmark that.
00:56:46 Speaker_02
Naked. Fully naked. But the reset of not having a drink because you've had a really hard day's work and you deserve, I really deserve this. The reset is not, okay, so I had a G&T last night, I still got up and I trained.
00:56:58 Speaker_02
The reset is, no, no, no, no, you would just feel so much better if you just stop. It's a leap of faith, weirdly. Yeah, I'm really closing in on that.
00:57:06 Speaker_02
And funnily enough, I wonder whether a bit of it has been, I know you joked about my birthright as a Brit drinking, but that I've been living away from the UK for the last few years.
00:57:14 Speaker_08
That's a very solid footing because I've had many dudes in AA over my last 20 years who are English now living here. Yes. And they go, I go home and I tell people I'm an alcoholic and they're like, that doesn't even exist in England. Conceptually.
00:57:29 Speaker_08
A lot of people even, what does that mean? I remember being in Italy, there was a British kid in our hostel and I was explaining to him, I'm an alcoholic. And he's like, well, what does that mean?
00:57:39 Speaker_08
And I go, well, you know, I'll go out and I'll drink a fifth of Jack and then I'll have a 12 pack and I'll get Coke. And he's like, yeah, I guess at home we would be proud of that.
00:57:45 Speaker_08
You're telling it like you're embarrassed by that, but we would very much be proud. And you woke up the next day.
00:57:50 Speaker_06
Part of the culture.
00:57:50 Speaker_02
Yeah, I do think culturally it's much different. It's why it's such an interesting time actually. There are all these different perceptions of Gen Z and the parents generation trying to get a handle on them.
00:58:04 Speaker_02
And certainly in the UK, I don't know if it's the same here, but their lack of wanting to get high. In the UK we're always judging them. We're always like, oh they're so boring. You think, maybe they're just healthy.
00:58:15 Speaker_02
They're still going out and having fun.
00:58:17 Speaker_08
They're just not getting wasted. Maybe they like waking up and not recounting everything they said in the conversation with so-and-so and thinking like, oh my fucking God, is this worthy of a call?
00:58:26 Speaker_02
Yes, exactly. That's a big shift, certainly in the UK. That's impressive.
00:58:30 Speaker_08
Yeah, it's happening here too. I keep reading that it's down, which it's got to be good. Although I hope they go fucking hard for at least a decade like I did. I'm still delighted I went hard.
00:58:39 Speaker_06
I think it's because they're so much more emotionally regulated that they're not using substances to sort of fill the void.
00:58:47 Speaker_02
I think you're right there. The opportunity to actually share and analyze rather than you're either sharing and analyzing while you're high or you're hiding the need to share and analyze because you're high.
00:58:57 Speaker_08
Well, again, that's why I like drugs. It was back to talking to girls. I sit down with you with an eight ball. I got no fear of telling you all my fears, my vulnerabilities. I'm impenetrable when I'm on Coke. I'll give you the whole me.
00:59:09 Speaker_08
I'm not worried at all. That's what I liked about it. I liked the intimacy it could immediately give you with another male. Sitting down with some dude you just met and you're hearing about his dad. You know the shit you talk about on Coke.
00:59:20 Speaker_08
You're like, your dad was a firefighter and I'm so interested. Yeah. What are you talking like? Did he come home smoky?
00:59:27 Speaker_06
Do you remember the stuff when you do? You do?
00:59:29 Speaker_08
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the many business plans I hatched. You're very entrepreneurial when you're on Coke. You've got a lot of good business plans. Did you ever make promises, though, like start them?
00:59:39 Speaker_02
Oh, oh, yeah.
00:59:41 Speaker_08
Oh, yeah. I've written a thousand checks in my head, couldn't cash, while gacked up for sure. Oh, fuck. Well, while we're on this, the other one I just want to touch in before we get into the 10 new movies you have. Downey's a good friend of mine.
00:59:55 Speaker_08
And so you got to do those two Sherlock's together.
00:59:57 Speaker_03
Oh, yeah.
00:59:59 Speaker_08
Was it a party? And I've also heard from I think was a Jake Gyllenhaal was telling us that guy has a set that's pretty fucking radical. Was that the case?
01:00:05 Speaker_02
Yeah. I'm sitting back smiling because they were very, very happy experiences, those. First of all, it was an interesting time looking back because Iron Man 1 had just landed. And people forget that was the first big Marvel movie. First big Marvel movie.
01:00:20 Speaker_02
First big turnaround for Rob. So it wasn't like he had gone stratospheric, but it was pretty clear that the rocket ship was full of fuel. They were cleared for takeoff. Yeah.
01:00:33 Speaker_08
It was sort of happening. Yet the sweet moment you got to share with him, the sky again was open for him.
01:00:39 Speaker_02
Exactly. And Guy too was sort of figuring out this step up from these really cool, he's one of those directors who it's hard to have a signature style. And you watch five minutes, you go, that's Guy Ritchie movie. Oh, yeah. Right.
01:00:51 Speaker_02
You know it straight away. Like Wes Anderson. He has his own particular style. I'm pretty certain in saying it's the first time he's sort of been headhunted and put in charge of a big piece with a big budget and a big movie star.
01:01:03 Speaker_02
And the first time I'd stepped up to something like that. So we were all sort of finding our way with all these new toys. And it really was incredibly creative. We had a script. that we used as a sort of blueprint.
01:01:15 Speaker_02
We'd go in, we'd improvise all morning, trying stuff out. I had this big tome of, I'd try to read most of the Holmes books and I'd made all these notes of great little quotes between the two of them.
01:01:24 Speaker_02
So we had this sort of Bible, we called it, where we would look for banter between them that was pure Conan Doyle. And Dione was just coming up with the craziest ideas. He's on another planet. Right.
01:01:34 Speaker_02
And so fast, but also brilliant at looking at something through a smart, funny lens, you know, like, But look at it from over here. How do we put that into the scene? And then we'd edit the thing down and go shoot it. That became our pattern.
01:01:47 Speaker_02
It was really creative.
01:01:48 Speaker_08
How fun and what ownership you must feel over those movies.
01:01:51 Speaker_02
Absolutely. And then to get to do it again felt like this oiled machine. It was like suddenly the engine was running and we could just accelerate again, again, again. It was a lot of fun. And one I really hoped we'd do again.
01:02:02 Speaker_02
I mean, there's been a lot of conversation about whether we will with scripts that have come and gone. But at the moment, I don't know.
01:02:09 Speaker_08
Oh, you must.
01:02:10 Speaker_02
I hope so.
01:02:11 Speaker_08
I hope so. Also, what an easy thing to greenlight. The charisma between you two motherfuckers. Like, I might even argue you're the only person with a big of a sparkle. Downey's such a weird little fucking unicorn. Yeah, he's cool.
01:02:23 Speaker_08
God, is he a special weirdo. And I'm going to add, just to bring him back down to life, he's also a dumbass. So he's like the most brilliant person you met.
01:02:31 Speaker_08
Like, I'm sure he was giving the most brilliant ideas, and I bet he was hitting you with a couple of like, what the fuck are you talking about? You want crystals in this scene?
01:02:39 Speaker_02
But that's where the genius lies, and it goes back a little bit to, we've mentioned some of the great film actors and directors already in this conversation, but being bold and brave and brilliant enough to offer a stupid idea, you know, you throw a stupid idea in, that means you're going to have a genius idea in three seconds.
01:02:56 Speaker_02
It's firing. And if you're safe and everyone goes, what? We'll do that. And then, well, what about this? Oh, okay. It's freedom of kind of flow thought. And again, learned a hell of a lot from that.
01:03:07 Speaker_02
Cause I definitely had some of those moments where you look around, what did you say? I think there are moments in the film where I'm like, what are we doing? The whole bit in the second one with him dressed as a woman and us then fighting.
01:03:20 Speaker_02
I'm on top of him dressed as a woman trying to kill him. I mean, and most of you go, wait, aren't we doing Sherlock Holmes?
01:03:29 Speaker_08
Doyle's rolling over in his grave. Are the mechanics of a Guy Ritchie movie at all laborious? Because it is visually so specific and cool.
01:03:38 Speaker_02
It never felt laborious. Sorry, you asked a much more specific question because of what Jake said about his sets.
01:03:43 Speaker_08
Well, he told me he's got like his own grill he invented.
01:03:45 Speaker_02
I think I saw it in the Beckham documentary. He hasn't got to that quite then, but he was always, yeah. What are we having for lunch? Let's cook our own lunch.
01:03:53 Speaker_02
He was inventing at the time, a kind of plush decked out trailer that you could cook your own food on with a little wood burning stove. All of that going on craft beer.
01:04:02 Speaker_08
He's from like a bygone era. That's so great. Okay. I watched The Order last night. Gosh. A couple of things right out of the gates. Just delighted to see a movie like this because we haven't made one of these in a long time.
01:04:12 Speaker_02
This was a standard fare in the early 2000s. And more so in the late 70s and early 80s. And that was the films I grew up with that Justin, the director, grew up with.
01:04:20 Speaker_02
If you think of Lumet and freaking early Michael Mann, a time when the genre film could also carry incredible content and substance.
01:04:30 Speaker_02
I've been referring to it as sort of elevated genre, that people aren't scared of genre being some sort of excuse just for thrills, that in fact, you can bed in really interesting commentary.
01:04:40 Speaker_08
You are, I'm going to fluff your pillows now, so buckle up. You're not unrecognizable because clearly it's you, but you're unrecognizable in this very fun way. This role, I'm like, this is like Gene Hackman or like late Paul Newman.
01:04:55 Speaker_08
When you walk up your face, I'm like, he's a real dude. This is not a movie star. This is very Gene Hackman-y.
01:05:00 Speaker_02
That was the aim. I'm completely thrilled that you made those two references. Those were references that Justin and I both sort of circled around the whole time for so many reasons.
01:05:10 Speaker_02
First of all, this idea of, for me as a Brit, trying to create a very particular American man of that time. The kind of cheesy reference is Marlboro Man, but you know, that kind of lived in, grizzly, macho, but with a really good heart.
01:05:28 Speaker_08
I mean, this is such a good trope. I miss it. It's like the life is a disaster because you've dedicated it all to one thing you're good at.
01:05:35 Speaker_02
That's right. Well, that was exactly at the heart of what we wanted to find in him. It's why we didn't base him on the real special agents that were in that case.
01:05:44 Speaker_06
Yeah, let's get a plot.
01:05:45 Speaker_02
OK, great. So it's a real story. So it's based on a case that the FBI uncovered in the early 80s about this white separatist movement that was breaking out in Idaho. And they discovered it because of a series of bank robberies.
01:06:01 Speaker_02
And these robberies actually amassed more money than had ever been stolen from Brinkman at the time. It was up to nearly four million dollars. Well, yeah, one of the armored car jobs was like three million bucks and eighty three.
01:06:12 Speaker_02
But they were using it to finance an army. And they were following a book that had been written a few years before called The Turner Diaries, this goofy, almost kids like book, which was seven steps to taking over the country.
01:06:24 Speaker_02
And they got to number five.
01:06:25 Speaker_08
It's still the Bible of white nationalists. I watched Docs as recently as last year where that's still the Bible of the white nationals.
01:06:32 Speaker_02
That's right. But it's this kind of kid's book. It's really odd. It's not got great content or gravitas to it. So Bob Matthews was the leader of this group that called themselves the Order or the Silent Brotherhood. Nick Holt plays him. Love him.
01:06:45 Speaker_08
He's still my beating vagina. I mean, he is as goddamn sexy as he gets. We do love him.
01:06:50 Speaker_02
What a brave actor to take on that role. He had to go to pretty dark places, I felt for him, because he found a humanity in this guy, but he was sort of unrelenting in commitment. It was a remarkable performance. I agree. So that's a real guy.
01:07:04 Speaker_02
There were a couple of special agents that bust this case, one in particular who's written several books about it.
01:07:08 Speaker_02
And it was just important that we use this character in the film and add to his vulnerability, add to his personal life to really make sure that the story and his role in the story hit home.
01:07:21 Speaker_02
And so to sort of hang that or invent that on the back of a real agent just felt wrong. So we sort of amalgamated him and invented him ourself. And going back to your point,
01:07:30 Speaker_02
We constructed him in such a way that there's this sense of this lost family, this incredible career that he's physically in ruin and kind of falling apart, smoking too much, drinking too much.
01:07:41 Speaker_02
He's taking pills to thin his blood and he's nose bleeding and gushing blood. He's a mess. And I like the idea that a lot of us felt like the big fight was behind us and in fact it's kind of in front of us.
01:07:53 Speaker_02
It's becoming more and more apparent globally.
01:07:55 Speaker_02
I wanted him to be us in that sense that he thinks he's done his job and he's going there to fish and hunt and chill out and suddenly this army is in front of him and he's on his own and he's got to take him on and you the audience are thinking is he going to survive the afternoon?
01:08:10 Speaker_02
He's falling apart. And there's also this interesting mirror of giving everything up, devoting everything to a cause and what the cost of that is, that things do cost in life. The bill comes due. Yeah.
01:08:23 Speaker_08
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01:11:34 Speaker_02
Justin Cozell directed it. We couldn't have found a better director. He was so suited to the material and handled it with such consideration. And Lent on the genre aspect created this real edge-of-your-seat cat-and-mouse thriller.
01:11:47 Speaker_02
But all the work and the emphasis, certainly on the set, was always about character and authenticity and background. And so at the end, I don't want to give too much away, but he kind of does get his man, he doesn't get his man.
01:12:00 Speaker_02
And so there's this suggestion of the hunt continuing, which I just thought was so elegantly conducted by him as a director, that sort of open ending with just the breathing of husk back out in the wilderness.
01:12:12 Speaker_02
And I felt like it lent itself beautifully to, exactly as you said, the fact that this book is still being looked at by separatist groups and urban terrorists as a Bible. Were you in Coeur d'Alene? No, we shot it actually in Calgary. Oh, you did?
01:12:24 Speaker_08
Because I think it's still alive in Coeur d'Alene. Oh, I'm sure.
01:12:28 Speaker_03
That group?
01:12:28 Speaker_08
Yeah, like, I think that's still a real hotbed of white nationalism. And I would have been a little nervous making that movie.
01:12:34 Speaker_02
Actually going there, no, indeed. This is the scary thing. Obviously, it's a piece of American history, but it's a global problem.
01:12:40 Speaker_08
Oh, I just watched a frontline on this thing called the Deutschland... Oh, Christ. Deutschland's something. They've gotten some officials elected. It's thriving on the millions. It's very fucking scary.
01:12:51 Speaker_02
I have belief that what galvanizes these individuals, it's sort of going on at the moment around us. It can sometimes be a single voice that gives them an excuse to suddenly be public about it.
01:13:03 Speaker_02
Someone in the agency said to me, the reason that got so far was because of Bob Matthews. He was a sort of once in a generation voice and he somehow managed to speak to them all.
01:13:12 Speaker_02
And as soon as he disappeared, they all disappeared into their little holes and they shut up. And I have a faith if people vote right this year, a lot of those people, their voices will disappear too.
01:13:23 Speaker_08
Yeah, there's so many forces at work. This current rise of this Deutschland, I wish I could remember the name of the party.
01:13:29 Speaker_08
It coincides perfectly with them deciding they were going to be a home for refugees, which is beautiful and a commitment at that time by maybe Markle saying we have this past and here's one of the ways we're going to atone for it.
01:13:41 Speaker_02
She was extraordinary. She really led the way with the refugees.
01:13:44 Speaker_08
Yeah, it's like a force that happens. And then now this breeze oxygen into this other thing. And then, yeah, charismatic leader pops up and rides on the fumes of all this other stuff that's going on.
01:13:54 Speaker_02
I thought what Justin did very well in the film was really quick.
01:13:57 Speaker_08
How did you find him? Because he's going to direct a couple episodes of the Bateman show.
01:14:01 Speaker_02
So he's an Aussie? He's an Aussie. My company had a great relationship with Zach Balin who's a wonderful writer. He wrote King Richard and Creed and Marley. He's a great run and gave the script to my partner Ben and we just wanted to get it made.
01:14:15 Speaker_02
We couldn't believe this story hadn't been told. We couldn't believe that he'd package this message within a genre and it was just a beautiful piece. So we loved Justin's work from Snowtown and Nitram and Macbeth.
01:14:27 Speaker_02
And he'd done some amazing work on film and just seemed so suited to it. He's an awesome guy. He brings incredible heart and ferocity and energy to films that he works on. And we got on very, very well. I hope to do many, many more projects with him.
01:14:43 Speaker_02
I intend to and I hope to. But yeah, he also stepped in and shot the last two episodes of the show that I just shot with Jason. Are you guys done? Yeah, we finished two weeks ago.
01:14:51 Speaker_08
Okay, we interviewed him three days before he left.
01:14:55 Speaker_06
To go start.
01:14:55 Speaker_08
To go start with his big beard. He looked insane. Yeah, and then I saw him this summer.
01:14:59 Speaker_02
Do you know what I find insane? Now I've seen him without it because he's been my big brother Vince. And big brother Vince had this hair and this beard and suddenly he shaved it all off for a flashback we have later in the show.
01:15:08 Speaker_02
And I was like, who the hell are you? You're Jason Bateman. Where's my brother? Yeah. It's such a great part for him. He's playing a recovering addict who has this nefarious past who kind of blows the lid off everything he goes near.
01:15:21 Speaker_02
You know, in The Wrong Hands it could have been that kind of character where everyone goes, why does anyone give this guy time of day? He's a walking car wreck. It's Jason Bateman. Yeah, you love him. So you fucking love him. You can't resist him. I know.
01:15:33 Speaker_02
And the charm and the humour. You just suddenly go, I forgive you. Do it again.
01:15:37 Speaker_08
In fact, nobody does shitty like he does.
01:15:40 Speaker_06
He is the very best. There's like just a few handful that can pull off unlikable so well.
01:15:46 Speaker_02
And by the way, the first time I've worked with someone who is directing and acting, that is a juggling act. That is a skill set.
01:15:52 Speaker_06
He's directing the show.
01:15:54 Speaker_02
He directed the first two. He's doing what he did on Ozark. That's right. You've not wanted to direct? I would love to, but I really enjoy the producing side. I really enjoy bringing folk together and ideas to life. Directing requires so much work.
01:16:08 Speaker_02
I will, I hope, one day.
01:16:09 Speaker_08
You have something with Monica's new favorite. Was it writer or director that wrote, what's your threesome movie you love so much? Challengers.
01:16:16 Speaker_06
Challengers. That was such a good movie.
01:16:19 Speaker_02
Who are you working with now? Justin Kuritskis, the writer. I'm working with him on something based on the 1968 debates between Gore Vidal and Buckley Jr. That's a great doc. That's one of my favorite docs. Best of Enemies. That's what we were inspired by.
01:16:35 Speaker_03
Have you seen that, Monica? No.
01:16:37 Speaker_02
It's an incredible documentary.
01:16:39 Speaker_08
It's also very interesting in today's times to watch that because you have two people that are polar opposites and they're both brilliant. And just to watch them go at it and the way they could go at it and how entertaining that was.
01:16:49 Speaker_08
And yet it wasn't like file into this camp and declare yourself this.
01:16:53 Speaker_02
It was like fun discourse. at the highest level of insight and wit. But my goodness, the respect for each other just slowly, well, slowly disintegrates in real time.
01:17:07 Speaker_08
Yeah.
01:17:08 Speaker_03
That's fun.
01:17:09 Speaker_08
Okay, so Blackrabbit's the show with Bateman, right? Yeah. That's on Netflix that's coming? It'll be next year on Netflix, yes. And then the third thing is a Star Wars project called Skeleton Crew.
01:17:22 Speaker_08
The Order and Skeleton Crew come out with three days of one another.
01:17:25 Speaker_02
That's right. The Order will be in cinemas from December 6th and Skeleton Crew is on that week on Disney+.
01:17:32 Speaker_08
This is just my own selfish curiosity. When you did Peter Pan and Wendy, was that supposed to come out theatrically or do you always know it was going to be a streamer?
01:17:40 Speaker_02
I assumed it was going to come out theatrically. And it was shot in such a way. I mean, this is David Lowery. He's a real filmmaker. And the scale of the thing was just magnificent.
01:17:48 Speaker_02
And I was lucky enough to see it in the cinema when they screened it for me. I don't know what went on there. It was one of those many unanswered questions that people seem to be posed at the moment about streamers making movies for, I don't know,
01:18:00 Speaker_02
I assume that Disney had enough confidence that every holiday, every parent wants to go to the movies with their kids, right? And if it's Peter Pan and Wendy, you're going to all go. You're going to watch it on Disney Plus too.
01:18:12 Speaker_02
I've never quite understood why one would stop the other.
01:18:16 Speaker_08
There was like a two year window where people were signing up for big movies and presumably they had box office bonuses or they had participation and success. And then they were like, well, guess what? That's completely off the table.
01:18:28 Speaker_08
None of them really stepped up and said, here's the money you would have normally made.
01:18:32 Speaker_02
No. To me, it's more about the responsibility also of the bigger companies who... Disney are a tentpole organization that people will go to the cinemas to see that. It's not like it's an odd arty film. It's a Disney movie.
01:18:45 Speaker_02
And like I said, I mean, if that comes out on the holiday, everyone with a child and everyone who's a Disney fan will go see it and go support it.
01:18:51 Speaker_06
Yeah, they have to, they have to fill up those days with the kids. Yes.
01:18:55 Speaker_02
Believe you me. Let's go twice.
01:18:57 Speaker_06
That's Dax's scariest time of the year, the week between Christmas and New Year's.
01:19:03 Speaker_08
I'll tell you what I did, Jude. Two Christmases ago, we go hard for Christmas. We go hard for everything. You just saw my yard. There's skeletons everywhere. We go hard. Prepping for Halloween.
01:19:11 Speaker_08
And the problem with going really hard is we went hard all of December two years ago. And then we get to the big day and it's Christmas. We unwrap our presents. And I go, whoo, I can feel everyone's dopamine leave.
01:19:24 Speaker_08
There's nothing more to look forward to. And I go, my God, we've got 10 more days together. How do we do this?
01:19:30 Speaker_08
So, two years ago I said, new family rule, every year on Christmas, the second we finish opening the presents, we get on an airplane and we go somewhere. And we did that last year, and by God it worked.
01:19:41 Speaker_02
And it's a great day to travel, no one's fucking there. It's a great idea. I do it because in the UK the weather is so awful. My wife loves Christmas, wants to be near the family. I do too, I just don't, I do too.
01:19:51 Speaker_02
I love them, but you gotta keep everyone busy. Gotta keep everyone busy, and I always find the role of dad is usually unpacking and packing things. So I'm always like, why am I filling the car up? And now I'm emptying the car.
01:20:03 Speaker_02
I don't know, I'm filling the car back up and stuff, and now I'm empty. Like, this is a lot of time out here.
01:20:07 Speaker_08
And do we need all this fucking shit to go out all these places?
01:20:11 Speaker_02
I know. We've got to carry all the presents out to Auntie Julie's house. But because of the weather, getting out of the UK on Boxing Day is a must. Go find some warm weather. Let's get the fuck out of here.
01:20:23 Speaker_06
This just reminded me, I have a question. What is the movie, because as we've discussed, you've done so many incredible ones. I have a guess as to the one that gets brought up the most to you on the street.
01:20:33 Speaker_02
Is it the holiday? It was Christmas themed. I like the segue there.
01:20:37 Speaker_06
I mean, I just remembered it because of that.
01:20:39 Speaker_02
It's a remarkable thing. I had a feeling making that. Nancy Myers, the director, has a really forensic, sharp eye for creating those cute, sweet, but not saccharine movies. They satisfy from the aesthetic to the dialogue. There's just enough humor.
01:20:59 Speaker_02
There's a little romance. They're smart, but she goes about them with a real attention to detail. So you hope it's going to be a success when it opens. You do not think it's going to become a stalwart for decades. A Christmas kind of routine.
01:21:13 Speaker_06
Yes, it's in my routine. I watch it every Christmas. I still love it.
01:21:17 Speaker_08
Is Monica right? That's the one people- So popular.
01:21:19 Speaker_02
And they make it part of their Christmas. It's a lovely thing. Yeah, you gotta learn to be grateful for- Hell yeah. Yeah, all the little things. Totally.
01:21:28 Speaker_06
Yeah, when you're part of the fabric of someone's- Holiday. Holiday. That's lovely.
01:21:33 Speaker_02
My one big issue with it was the name Graham. And I apologize to everyone called Graham out there, but in the UK, Graham's a little bit of a- Okay, I really do apologize.
01:21:42 Speaker_08
You gotta be careful here. I get name trouble all the time.
01:21:44 Speaker_02
Okay.
01:21:44 Speaker_08
Yeah, yeah.
01:21:45 Speaker_02
I was just like, can we just call him Jack or John, you know? And Nancy just really wanted Graham. Yeah, she got it. Because you see, at least in the States, you say Graham, but in England we call him Graham. Ew.
01:21:58 Speaker_06
Graham.
01:21:59 Speaker_08
Graham.
01:21:59 Speaker_06
Yeah, that's not right. Apologies to Graham's.
01:22:01 Speaker_08
Sorry, Graham. Y'all should move here to the States where we'll call you Graham. So Graham Norton. Oh shit, Graham Norton's gonna kill me. Now he's gunning for God. God. Yeah, I think every year, because we have a routine.
01:22:16 Speaker_08
I told you we go hard in December. It starts with family vacation, the Christmas vacation movie. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, it's Chevy Chase. Yes! Yeah, I can imagine being in it and then being upset about it.
01:22:27 Speaker_08
But on the outside, as an actor that's not in it, I'm like, what a goddamn blessing. Every year, I appreciate Chevy Chase for two hours, every year. And I'm going to until I'm dead. That is such a gift. Yeah.
01:22:40 Speaker_02
Where do you go on holiday when you live in California?
01:22:43 Speaker_08
We went to Mexico. I'll tell you exactly what I do. It's so embarrassing to say out loud, but as I've gotten money, I've become a total hotel snob.
01:22:51 Speaker_08
So all I do is I go to fourseasons.com and I look at the list of hotels and then I go see which ones are booked and how long it'll take us to get there. I don't give a fuck where we go as long as there's a Four Seasons there.
01:23:03 Speaker_08
And so it turned out the one that was closest and had availability was in Mexico, and we went, and then it was delightful. That's great climate, lovely water. Everything was great. It was a big win.
01:23:13 Speaker_08
And you're in Mexico, so they'll let you do something they would never let you do in the States, which is I got a couples massage with my then eight-year-old daughter.
01:23:21 Speaker_08
They won't massage a minor, especially on an eight-year-old in the States, but there, everything was great. And I'm laying next to her, and it was one of my, I mean, other than watching Lincoln at the heiress tour, listening to Delta go,
01:23:33 Speaker_08
Oh wow, I like this. Oh daddy, I want to get a massage all the time. Yeah, that's not how it works. It's a very special thing. That's so cute.
01:23:41 Speaker_03
Wow.
01:23:41 Speaker_08
It was so funny. I get to be in the room with her, like experiencing her first massage and she loved it. I bet. That's really funny.
01:23:51 Speaker_06
She's going to get a couples massage when she's married. I used to go with my dad to get couples massages.
01:23:56 Speaker_02
This one's not as good as the one I had with my dad.
01:23:59 Speaker_08
Oh my God. Okay, great. So let's just for one second, talk about skeleton crew, because that's also coming out, but I doubt you're going to come see us again before December 3rd, which breaks my heart. So let's talk about it now.
01:24:10 Speaker_02
What's there to say? I'm not allowed to say anything. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Now I can answer anything you want to know.
01:24:16 Speaker_08
Well, I just think it's pretty cool to step into that world, I guess, Star Wars.
01:24:21 Speaker_02
It was really cool. I'm not like an insane Star Wars fan, but I grew up. It was a formative part of my childhood. I remember seeing those first three and they blew my little mind.
01:24:33 Speaker_02
And I probably ran around my yard for the next 10 years going pew pew and, you know, I'm Han. And my friends going, Being very jealous of my neighbor Daniel who had a lot more figures than me. I think he even had an at-at which really pissed me off.
01:24:52 Speaker_02
I befriended him and went over there and melted a few of them as they got lazy. But it was formative and made enough of an impression that stepping into it was just honestly a real joy.
01:25:06 Speaker_02
And I was lucky that the character that they wanted me to play has a really interesting contradiction and he's got a swagger and he's interesting. He's got a lot of sides. the genius was that the protagonists of this show are kids.
01:25:22 Speaker_02
So it doesn't have the sort of worthiness that some of the latter work, I think, had, which I, by the way, enjoyed. But it's through the eyes of these children who get lost in that world. I just thought it was a stroke of genius.
01:25:37 Speaker_02
It adds a kind of innocence. It adds an awe with real jeopardy still that I just think really breathed some sparkle back in.
01:25:45 Speaker_08
Yeah. Okay, my last question for you is about your wife. She is a behavioral psychologist.
01:25:50 Speaker_06
Ooh.
01:25:51 Speaker_08
That's so hot. Our favorite guest.
01:25:52 Speaker_06
That is so hot.
01:25:53 Speaker_08
We do experts on Wednesdays.
01:25:55 Speaker_06
We've had a few behavioral.
01:25:56 Speaker_08
And we constantly have psychologists on. And I love it. But of course, I'm always most intrigued, if I'm being honest, you have this playbook. You kind of understand emotions. You know how to articulate how you feel.
01:26:08 Speaker_08
But then you're also just a real human in real life. Like in some weird way, you think they would have the answer key. for existing, but I've never really got to interview the husband of someone with the answer.
01:26:20 Speaker_08
And when you guys get in like a spat, can she just go like, Oh, here's exactly what's going on. You're responding to this thing when you were nine years old that you already told me, and I already fucking know this and jump to it.
01:26:30 Speaker_08
The short answer is absolutely.
01:26:34 Speaker_02
But the skill set that I have observed and appreciate the most. is her calm in that scenario. I was so immature before I met her. You know, I thought a row, an argument or a fight was getting really angry and shouting a lot and storming around.
01:26:53 Speaker_02
And what she taught me was that you can row and be perfectly calm and sit down. It's just a conversation where we really disagree. That was like an epiphany for me that blew my little mind. Oh, this is called being adult. Yeah.
01:27:07 Speaker_02
What age were you when you guys met? I was 40. and it was an ability to suddenly slow down and really look at what was being discussed, what was being disagreed on.
01:27:19 Speaker_02
She's also incredibly generous, so she has a wonderful empathy, so much more so than me, and so that at any given time I also know that even if she sees the root of the pathetic little decision I've made, stubborn little foot stomp I'm making.
01:27:36 Speaker_02
She kind of goes about it with great embrace. She's a very awesome person and hugely patient. She puts up with me. Yeah.
01:27:44 Speaker_08
If I put myself in your shoes, I'm very opinionated on how we should raise the kids. It's very important to me. I have a lot of opinions. I care more about that than anything.
01:27:53 Speaker_08
And I might have a chip on my shoulder that in theory, she probably would be right.
01:27:57 Speaker_08
Theoretically, if we were debating this course of action with the kids, I might feel like, hey, just because you have all this training and knowledge doesn't mean my opinion isn't as valid.
01:28:09 Speaker_02
I'm lucky in that I've done it before, so where we are a pretty formidable team, I like to think, is that she has this study, she has patience and sort of wisdom, and I've been in the trenches and gotten muddy and bloody, so I can sort of go, yeah, that ain't gonna work, let me tell you.
01:28:27 Speaker_02
We can go down that path, we're gonna lose teeth.
01:28:29 Speaker_08
Yeah, in theory, it's great, in practice, this is gonna happen. And it's a good mixture. Is she a Brit or an American? She's British. Oh, she is. Yes, okay.
01:28:38 Speaker_06
What's that do to your brain?
01:28:40 Speaker_08
Well, I don't know. I like it, I guess. That she's British? Yeah. Because I like exotic things. And if I had the option for exotic, I don't know, there's something nice about the fact that you're with a woman.
01:28:54 Speaker_06
Well, that's not true. Because look at your wife.
01:28:56 Speaker_08
She's pretty fucking American.
01:28:57 Speaker_06
Yeah.
01:28:59 Speaker_08
Some might argue she's America's sweetheart. Yeah, some might. Like the world, the world says so. I don't know what I'm saying. I thought there was something there and there's not.
01:29:07 Speaker_03
You're absolutely right. You were looking, you were fishing. That's not right.
01:29:09 Speaker_08
Yeah, I don't know. Well, all I know is the sky was the limit for your options and you got yourself a hometown girl, so I think I like that.
01:29:16 Speaker_02
Yeah, I was just very, very lucky to meet someone at that moment who had the generosity just to sort of get me and love me for me. That was the big mind blowing moment.
01:29:28 Speaker_08
Do you struggle at all? I had this hang up. I was with the girl for nine years. She was with me through all the struggle.
01:29:36 Speaker_08
And then we broke up and I was really quite bothered by the fact that I would meet someone that already knew the successful version of me. Already knew someone potentially on TV. Does that make any sense to you?
01:29:47 Speaker_02
Yeah, it does make sense, but it was pretty clear from the get go. First of all, I'd been pretty successful and known for quite a chunk of my life. Your whole life really.
01:29:58 Speaker_02
And in a way, I sort of thought that that was the issue moving forward and finding someone. And to be honest, I got into a place where I thought, well, you know, I've been pretty lucky. I felt like I'd fallen in love before a couple of times.
01:30:09 Speaker_02
It hadn't worked out. That's fine. I was healthy and happy. I was sort of starting to like myself again. I'd forgiven myself for some stupid behavior and moved on.
01:30:20 Speaker_02
So what was key was that she was clearly not interested in this public person or any of that, but in me. And that was mind-blowing to me. And we became really great friends very, very quickly, but that was the first step.
01:30:35 Speaker_08
Yeah. I don't want to bring this up because it's not a fun topic and I don't want to bring up anything scandalous at all.
01:30:40 Speaker_08
All I want to ask, the one curiosity I have is during this fucking phone hacking thing, were you ever getting suspicious at any point? Like someone's got to be like, were there moments where you're like, this is inexplicable.
01:30:52 Speaker_02
Yeah, they would turn up at places in the middle of nowhere. Or I'd be taking the kids on holiday. Mentally freaky. Very, very freaky. You start to circle the wagons and really start analyzing who in the circle is doing what. You get a little paranoid.
01:31:08 Speaker_02
You get a little antsy about things. It just spins your head out.
01:31:13 Speaker_06
It's pretty traumatic, really.
01:31:15 Speaker_02
Yeah.
01:31:16 Speaker_08
I think it's hugely traumatic. It's so nuts that someone greenlit that. I know. On such a huge scale.
01:31:23 Speaker_02
Right, they were doing the prime minister? And they figured out that paper, plus I'm sure some of the others, the content they were publishing every week, 80 to 90% of the content had been illegally sourced.
01:31:34 Speaker_02
I mean, that's how much they were outsourcing and paying for these people to provide these stories illegally. Crazy.
01:31:42 Speaker_08
I honestly think it would run the risk of making someone lose their mind.
01:31:45 Speaker_06
Yeah.
01:31:46 Speaker_08
Because you're already, let's just be honest, and I deal with it to some extent, not the degree you do, but reality's already been augmented. Like I go to Starbucks and people there know me.
01:31:54 Speaker_08
That's its own thing to come to terms with and integrate into your existence.
01:31:58 Speaker_02
Yeah. I've got to remember it. I've got to think back. The color that I'm seeing, I was just pissed off. A lot. There was a good 10 years I was angry.
01:32:09 Speaker_02
I got kind of animal primal because the thing that really pissed me off was the invasion in my kids' lives. And then I realized that I was the one actually upsetting the kids because they were seeing dad being like, Fuck away. Go away.
01:32:24 Speaker_02
What are you doing here? All of that stuff whilst trying to provide a great, hey, we're all going to the park. Let's go to the park. Fuck off. What are you doing here? It was just a messy time.
01:32:32 Speaker_08
Well, the kids, that's a really important piece, because I will say I'm really nice in general, in public. Me too. In the times I've been really aggressive.
01:32:40 Speaker_02
I want to be a nice guy. I want to be good and kind.
01:32:43 Speaker_08
Same, same. The only times people have seen really bad versions of myself is when I'm with my kids. I'm sorry, they didn't sign up for this. I know you think somehow that's a price they should pay for having me as a parent, but that's bullshit.
01:32:55 Speaker_08
That's sins of our father stuff. Yeah, that's right. And yeah, I've been my worst self because I'm already a suspicious person. So I'd be like, oh, I know who it is. I know what's happening. Something's happening. I would feel it. That would be maddening.
01:33:08 Speaker_08
You really went through something.
01:33:10 Speaker_02
Yeah, and it's interesting to discuss because again, I'm someone who tends to genuinely just look forward. I don't dwell on the past much. I don't really look back over old work or old experiences.
01:33:20 Speaker_02
It is kind of therapeutic and interesting to discuss and I remember the anger. I also remember it was inevitable that once the line was drawn under it, or it seemed to subside. There needed to be a time, a space away from everything.
01:33:34 Speaker_02
I needed a lot of healing had to take place. And it was a big turning point. The responsibility was also on me, meaning I didn't want the kids to see that stuff. So I had to learn how to deal with it in another way too.
01:33:45 Speaker_08
That's the thing I really relate to you is like, I do that thing. I'm defending them in quotes, but really all they've done is seen me go from normal to really agitated and aggressive to someone else. And now they're just absorbing all that energy.
01:33:56 Speaker_08
Yeah. So whatever damage this person that was filming my kids, which I was pissed about, did to them, what I ended up doing was worse. And then having to fucking accept that, now it's like another layer.
01:34:07 Speaker_08
Now it's like that person took away my control and power, but then I did something even worse with it. I know.
01:34:13 Speaker_03
It's horrifying.
01:34:14 Speaker_02
Big old knot. What a chapter.
01:34:16 Speaker_08
Yeah. Wow. You lived through that. I bet there's still residual decompression.
01:34:20 Speaker_02
Yeah, probably.
01:34:21 Speaker_08
Well, thanks for telling me about that. I read that and I was like, oh man, the things I've had.
01:34:25 Speaker_06
I just can't believe it was allowed.
01:34:27 Speaker_02
Well, it was highly illegal in the end.
01:34:28 Speaker_06
Well, exactly.
01:34:29 Speaker_02
They paid out, the thing closed, they put one of the guys in prison. Oh, that someone went to jail for it. Oh good. Yeah.
01:34:35 Speaker_06
I mean, it's like good, but it still happened. You can't undo.
01:34:39 Speaker_02
Do you know how they found out in the end? So there had been complaints, there were suspicions arisen, aroused by various people in the public eye. And we were sort of told, sort of shut up. You guys are famous. This is what you deserve.
01:34:53 Speaker_02
A young girl was murdered and they hacked her telephone and so they listened to messages which meant the police thought she was still alive. And when that got out, they finally realized that's how low they went. Oh my god.
01:35:16 Speaker_08
England's a weird place. I've only sued one of those magazines and it was a English magazine. It's interesting because you guys actually have more protections than we do. It's just a moral thing, right? They just decide, let's really push the line.
01:35:28 Speaker_08
It's just really curious because it's like you have more legal protection there. That is bizarre. And yet they seem to offend worse than anyone else.
01:35:36 Speaker_02
I think they push that boundary of freedom of speech or hide behind it rather, saying this is freedom of journalism.
01:35:42 Speaker_03
Right.
01:35:43 Speaker_08
Yes. Yes. as if we need to know, like, you're in a position of power or in the government. Well, dude, this has been a blast. I really like you. Do people normally come in and just start talking?
01:35:56 Speaker_02
I feel really... No! That's exactly how it goes. This is how it goes. I loved it.
01:36:01 Speaker_08
That's how it works. What a joy. But this was fun because we have some mutual friends and I've never met you and you're fucking delightful. Well, you too.
01:36:07 Speaker_02
It's been such a thrill to be on this, really. I've loved it. Now you need to tell me, other than Anna, who else cries? I didn't cry. I got a little Terry.
01:36:14 Speaker_08
Oh, I'm going to have to send you a list. I mean, not to brag, but we've had 800 people and I bet you a good 30 of them have cried.
01:36:22 Speaker_06
Yeah, maybe more.
01:36:24 Speaker_08
Did I make Prince Harry cry?
01:36:26 Speaker_06
No, you didn't. The Brits, I guess, don't cry.
01:36:28 Speaker_08
Well, they're kind of known for that. They cry at the pub in the bathroom. Six pints.
01:36:34 Speaker_06
Under the stairwell. They let it sneak out. Under the stairwell.
01:36:36 Speaker_08
They let it all out there. That's it. When they're hiding. Your autobiography should be called Under the Stairwell. From under the stairwell to the top of the stage.
01:36:44 Speaker_02
My life in limelight.
01:36:49 Speaker_08
Well, this has been a blast. I hope you'll come back the next time you have the three movies coming out at once. All right, be well. Bye. Thank you.
01:36:56 Speaker_09
He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gonna let him have the facts. Hi.
01:37:07 Speaker_08
Is this Venti?
01:37:08 Speaker_06
No.
01:37:08 Speaker_08
Okay, brand new.
01:37:09 Speaker_06
Regular.
01:37:10 Speaker_08
Right off the factory floor. Darn it! What? Well, this would be a spoiler for a future episode, but I was gonna put my cashmere in a little bag and bring it. Ian, so you could.
01:37:22 Speaker_06
Save it for that episode.
01:37:23 Speaker_08
That episode, okay, great.
01:37:24 Speaker_06
I have a big update.
01:37:27 Speaker_08
Oh, you do?
01:37:27 Speaker_06
Mm-hmm. So.
01:37:30 Speaker_08
The way you're steadying yourself for this update.
01:37:33 Speaker_06
Well, I need visual, I need line of vision, field of vision.
01:37:37 Speaker_08
Field of vision, line of sight.
01:37:39 Speaker_06
Line of sight, look.
01:37:41 Speaker_08
Oh my gosh, is that the bear?
01:37:44 Speaker_06
This is the black bear. Well, hold on.
01:37:47 Speaker_08
Okay.
01:37:47 Speaker_06
It's not the black bear. The original Black Bear is still- Out of your reach. Impossible. Except, so I went to the restaurant.
01:37:59 Speaker_08
Yeah.
01:38:00 Speaker_06
I chatted with my friend who works there.
01:38:02 Speaker_08
Okay. A server, a manager, or the owner?
01:38:04 Speaker_06
I think the owner.
01:38:05 Speaker_08
Or the valet.
01:38:06 Speaker_06
No, owner, manager, all of it. He does all of it. All of the above.
01:38:10 Speaker_08
The bald guy? Is he missing hair?
01:38:13 Speaker_06
I think so. Okay.
01:38:14 Speaker_08
I've got a great product for him.
01:38:16 Speaker_06
No, he looks great.
01:38:17 Speaker_08
Okay, great.
01:38:18 Speaker_06
You know, we chatted about the mug. Obviously, word has got to them about what's been going on.
01:38:24 Speaker_08
Well, they got active in the comments. I don't know if I, I think I didn't tell you that.
01:38:29 Speaker_06
Okay.
01:38:30 Speaker_08
because I wanted to preserve your overall relationship with a place you love. But they got active in the comments. They were like, don't steal our mug. They really didn't get the joke that I was suggesting, steal the mug and leave money.
01:38:44 Speaker_08
And I think they got a little worried. So they got busy in the comments. Not shocked that they know about this whole thing.
01:38:51 Speaker_06
Also, definitely don't steal anyone's anything.
01:38:54 Speaker_08
Unless you're going to leave $1,000.
01:38:56 Speaker_06
No.
01:38:56 Speaker_08
I bet they would be proud.
01:38:57 Speaker_06
No, actually this is, so I think this is sort of part of the issue. Like they're sold out completely. The mugs are sold out. Every single mug on the website is sold out.
01:39:06 Speaker_08
They're gone.
01:39:07 Speaker_06
I don't know if that's arm cherries.
01:39:09 Speaker_08
Were they sold out when you went and looked? Well, I know they weren't because you read from me the website.
01:39:14 Speaker_06
They were not.
01:39:15 Speaker_08
They weren't. A lot of them were available.
01:39:16 Speaker_06
Yes. So I have a feeling our beautiful arm cherries got active and are supporting this wonderful company, Salty Sea Dogs.
01:39:25 Speaker_08
Oh, that's what it's called. A lot of people are curious.
01:39:26 Speaker_06
Salty Sea Dogs. If they want to know more about my stuff, they can follow me on Instagram.
01:39:31 Speaker_08
Oh, right. Okay. Cause you were tagging people and things.
01:39:34 Speaker_06
Exactly. Okay. I do believe that we had something to do with that. And I, and that makes me really happy and my heart feel very full.
01:39:42 Speaker_08
Oh, good. So this is many parts. This is a thank you.
01:39:44 Speaker_06
Yeah, this is a huge thank you. I went to the restaurant. We talked, the owner said potentially that if. They get more in, like more mugs in general. He'll give me an original black bear. There's two.
01:40:03 Speaker_08
Two different bears.
01:40:04 Speaker_06
No, there's two only left in the world.
01:40:07 Speaker_08
In the world?
01:40:08 Speaker_06
At that restaurant.
01:40:09 Speaker_08
That's one of them?
01:40:09 Speaker_06
No.
01:40:10 Speaker_08
Okay, sorry.
01:40:11 Speaker_06
So that there has sort of a like, what's this shape? Triangle sort of, that's not the right shape. What's this shape? That's not the right.
01:40:20 Speaker_08
What if you didn't know the name of a triangle?
01:40:22 Speaker_06
Well, it's not a triangle, but it's like.
01:40:24 Speaker_08
Thank God it wasn't on the card. It's a trapezoid?
01:40:27 Speaker_06
Oh my God, speaking of the cognitive test, you know what I could not identify? Did I already say this? I could not identify for the life of me a seahorse.
01:40:39 Speaker_08
Oh, interesting.
01:40:40 Speaker_06
Then she showed, you know, there were pictures of things and there were like ball and cat, like so obvious.
01:40:45 Speaker_08
Yeah.
01:40:46 Speaker_06
And then one was this thing and I was like, oh.
01:40:49 Speaker_08
A pelican. A sandwich.
01:40:54 Speaker_06
A sea lion? Like, I could not remember.
01:40:57 Speaker_08
Sea lion makes sense, because that's a thing.
01:40:59 Speaker_06
It is a thing, but it's not that thing. No, no. And I never got, she had to tell me.
01:41:03 Speaker_08
She told you.
01:41:04 Speaker_06
Yes, and then I was like, I think this is racism.
01:41:07 Speaker_08
Oh.
01:41:08 Speaker_06
Yeah.
01:41:08 Speaker_08
Okay.
01:41:09 Speaker_06
Not misogyny? Indians don't learn, no, this is an Indian thing.
01:41:12 Speaker_08
Because women don't like horses as much as men, according to Barbie.
01:41:16 Speaker_06
Women love horses.
01:41:17 Speaker_08
That is true, but according to Barbie, men love, horses are the patriarch.
01:41:21 Speaker_06
Sure.
01:41:21 Speaker_08
Okay.
01:41:22 Speaker_06
Okay, I guess it's both, per usual. Right, right, right. Per usual, it's both things.
01:41:26 Speaker_08
Uh-huh, laundry list.
01:41:27 Speaker_06
But really, I was like, Indians don't know about seahorses. I'd be curious, if you're an Indian listener.
01:41:32 Speaker_08
And you grew up in Atlanta, Georgia.
01:41:35 Speaker_06
No, you can have grown up anywhere in this country. And I wonder if this is Indian for real.
01:41:44 Speaker_08
Okay, now we're transferring into real.
01:41:45 Speaker_06
Okay, we gotta get back to the black bear, but one second. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:41:48 Speaker_08
Because I'll suggest that genetically, you're probably more tolerant of high heat. And you're like, that's preposterous.
01:41:55 Speaker_06
I didn't say that's preposterous.
01:41:56 Speaker_08
Oh, what'd you say?
01:41:57 Speaker_06
I said, stop talking.
01:41:59 Speaker_08
Just shut up about it. Only I'm allowed to talk about being Indian. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair.
01:42:04 Speaker_06
I think you're right about that, potentially, that I have some genetic disposition to high heat, but also I grew up in the South.
01:42:11 Speaker_08
But I'm going to argue it's not a great argument because the U.S. is also surrounded on three sides by ocean.
01:42:17 Speaker_06
Right.
01:42:18 Speaker_08
Because India is a goddamn peninsula. This is a subcontinent. This thing is submerged in water where seahorses are roaming free and wild. I would even think you'd over index in seahorse knowledge.
01:42:29 Speaker_06
I don't think they have seahorses there.
01:42:31 Speaker_08
Okay.
01:42:32 Speaker_06
And, and also, you know, when I would babysit young kids like yours, you know, here in America, there's a big emphasis on teaching.
01:42:44 Speaker_08
Your position is this, like you've arrived. You almost sound like Steven Seagal. How do you say in English?
01:42:49 Speaker_06
That is not fair. I am Indian.
01:42:54 Speaker_08
Now I sound like Trump when he's talking about Kamala Harris. I don't know. She's Indian. That's fine. She was black. Now she's Indian.
01:43:02 Speaker_06
She used to be black. Now she's Indian. Oh my God. I think there's a big emphasis in America for American school children and American Okay, preschool, when you're like, have babysitters and your parents are reading you books and stuff.
01:43:19 Speaker_08
Yeah.
01:43:19 Speaker_06
There's a big emphasis on animals.
01:43:22 Speaker_08
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:43:23 Speaker_06
And like, identify this animal. What's this? What's this? I didn't have that.
01:43:27 Speaker_08
Well, to be clear, I didn't either from my parents. I had it from my grandparents. I would go to my grandma, Yolis, and she had those National Geographic books and she wanted me to- But she's white. Yeah, I'm very, very smart and educated.
01:43:38 Speaker_08
She's the most educated of my lineage.
01:43:41 Speaker_06
Right, oh, right, she is.
01:43:42 Speaker_08
Only master's degree holder.
01:43:43 Speaker_06
I thought you said I'm very, very smart and educated.
01:43:46 Speaker_08
Well, you are, and you're my grandma.
01:43:50 Speaker_06
Give me a grandma. This is like Mossimo. I thought you said the words, I'm very smart. Not Monica is, but I'm very smart.
01:43:58 Speaker_08
No, I'm the average intelligence, except the cog test.
01:44:00 Speaker_06
I know, you're very smart.
01:44:02 Speaker_08
But back to, so I didn't have that either, but I did have it from my grandma. I'm just adding context for your American, because I grew up in America and you didn't, so I'm telling you how it worked.
01:44:12 Speaker_06
It's more American people put emphasis on animals. I think that's real. Is it? Yes, because pets.
01:44:20 Speaker_08
You might totally be right, but I really want to know the thought process of how you came to that.
01:44:26 Speaker_06
I am coming to it real time. I don't think pets are a huge part of the culture at all. I really don't.
01:44:33 Speaker_08
In India?
01:44:33 Speaker_06
Yes.
01:44:34 Speaker_08
Well, God knows they have dogs. We saw a lot of dogs. And they have cows walking around the street.
01:44:38 Speaker_06
They're roaming though, they're not pets.
01:44:40 Speaker_08
Yeah, so here's the one I was going to launch really, really quick. And this is not thought out and probably full of holes like Swiss cheese, preferably on pastrami with coleslaw and a little Russian dressing.
01:44:51 Speaker_08
We don't have exotic animals, you know, we don't have lions and tigers and elephants and monkeys. And so they're very exotic and interesting to us. But maybe if you grow up in Africa or India where these things are indigenous, they're not that.
01:45:08 Speaker_08
Interesting. So that could be kind of an argument. Like, they're so exotic to us. They're almost like fairy tales, dragons and whatever.
01:45:17 Speaker_06
Yeah, maybe.
01:45:17 Speaker_08
I'm not standing on that argument, but I did just come up with it.
01:45:20 Speaker_06
I think it's more, America's obsessed with pets. And like, because I did learn about elephants. Okay. Because elephants are a big part of that culture. And so my grandparents, you know, there's like elephants everywhere.
01:45:33 Speaker_08
All over the house. Big symbol.
01:45:33 Speaker_06
Yeah. So I knew about them.
01:45:36 Speaker_08
Okay, here. I got a new one that just came off the assembly line. We were raised on Disney cartoons and the stars of the cartoons are generally animals. They're Wile E. Coyote and all these fun and Dumbo and what's the little deer? Poor Bambi.
01:45:53 Speaker_08
So I do think our cultural products are pretty rife with animals. That's what I said. But I don't watch any cartoons in India, so I don't know if those two are populated. I bet they are. Kids like talking animals, don't you think?
01:46:05 Speaker_06
I don't know. Unfortunately, I'm not. I didn't grow up there.
01:46:08 Speaker_08
Should we call your dad?
01:46:09 Speaker_06
And ask about animals?
01:46:10 Speaker_08
Yeah, ask him if, when he was a kid, were the cartoons, were the characters in cartoons mostly animals or were they humans?
01:46:16 Speaker_06
I don't think he had TV or movies. He did. He walked to school. No, he didn't. Let's ask him. Okay.
01:46:22 Speaker_08
Let's get it straight from the horse's mouth. Ding, ding, ding, horse. We call people horse's mouth.
01:46:27 Speaker_06
Men love horses.
01:46:28 Speaker_08
Yeah, patriarchy.
01:46:29 Speaker_06
Oh boy.
01:46:29 Speaker_08
What if your dad goes, how the fuck would I know? I'm American. And then he hung up.
01:46:34 Speaker_06
I would like that. Me too.
01:46:36 Speaker_08
He won't.
01:46:36 Speaker_06
He never hangs up on me.
01:46:38 Speaker_08
I don't know why you're asking these fucking questions.
01:46:40 Speaker_06
Hey, Monica. Hey, dad. You're on air. Well, not live, but we are recording. Hi. Hey.
01:46:49 Speaker_08
How are you?
01:46:49 Speaker_06
I'm in a meeting. Oh, oh no. Okay. Dad, you want to call me back? I will. Okay. All right. Bye.
01:46:58 Speaker_08
That's so cute, he's in a meeting, but if his daughter calls.
01:47:00 Speaker_06
He picks up, yeah.
01:47:01 Speaker_08
Ding, ding, ding, future guest.
01:47:03 Speaker_06
I know.
01:47:04 Speaker_08
Yeah.
01:47:04 Speaker_06
You gotta pick up when your daughter calls.
01:47:06 Speaker_08
That's right. She could be running from an attacker.
01:47:09 Speaker_06
I don't call a lot. He's like, now's my chance.
01:47:12 Speaker_08
Oh, something's wrong. No, he thinks something's wrong.
01:47:14 Speaker_06
Yeah, he does. He does think something's wrong. But nothing's wrong, dad, you're just on the air.
01:47:18 Speaker_08
Just trying to figure out if everyone likes animals or just Americans.
01:47:22 Speaker_06
What if I said, put me on speaker at your meeting.
01:47:27 Speaker_08
I wanna pull the group you're with. Certainly, I think you need to extend this to Westerners, because certainly when I'm in Europe, everyone has dogs.
01:47:36 Speaker_08
In fact, if you go to Nice and all these little French Riviera towns, there are mechanized dog poop scooper uppers, like in Cannes and stuff. These French let their fucking dogs' waists just fall all over the ground.
01:47:51 Speaker_06
They're so willy nilly.
01:47:53 Speaker_08
Oh, French.
01:47:53 Speaker_06
They're so romantic. So sexy.
01:47:56 Speaker_08
They had dog poops on the side and they're all so horny.
01:47:58 Speaker_06
Let's go into the... Anyway, I don't know, maybe times have changed in India, but
01:48:06 Speaker_08
We were just there, by the way.
01:48:08 Speaker_06
We did go to someone's house, and I didn't see any animals there.
01:48:11 Speaker_08
No, but they weren't hosting guests. They probably put their cats and dogs and seahorses away.
01:48:14 Speaker_06
They don't have them. They don't have them. I really don't think it's a, should we ask Husson? Do we know? I don't think he grew up in a house.
01:48:21 Speaker_08
But he's gonna be on the same boat as you.
01:48:22 Speaker_06
Exactly.
01:48:23 Speaker_08
He'll tell us what it's like in fucking Stockton, California.
01:48:25 Speaker_06
No, he's gonna say, the culture, he didn't grow up, his parents didn't bring cats and dogs around. My grandfather was a, for a long time, a vet.
01:48:38 Speaker_09
Legally or just like I'm a doctor.
01:48:41 Speaker_06
No, he like he was a chin. He was a he was a Don't laugh at him. He's dead. He was a It was a professor of genetics, right?
01:48:52 Speaker_08
But I don't think nothing that's different than a veterinarian.
01:48:54 Speaker_06
No, he did a lot of work with animals.
01:48:56 Speaker_08
Okay, I
01:48:57 Speaker_06
And at one point he was a vet. I don't know all the details, okay? But listen, even him who was like, knew a lot about animals and was around them, they didn't have pets. That's like a separate thing. Anyway, Indians don't have pets, okay?
01:49:11 Speaker_06
We're gonna have a guest on next year who I'm gonna ask.
01:49:15 Speaker_08
Okay.
01:49:15 Speaker_06
And I'm really excited to ask.
01:49:17 Speaker_08
She won't know either. Are you talking about she'll know if she had pets in America? What are you talking about? I thought we're trying to figure out if Indians in India know about seahorses and have pets.
01:49:26 Speaker_06
It's all related. It's all related. If they themselves weren't around a lot of animals or it wasn't a big part of the culture, they're not teaching their little kids about animals.
01:49:37 Speaker_06
They're not like picking that out as something, oh, identify all these animals as something important to do. They don't care about that.
01:49:44 Speaker_08
Okay.
01:49:45 Speaker_06
So it's why I don't know about seahorses.
01:49:46 Speaker_08
I'm not pushing back on that. I'm introducing a new thing, which I think helps your argument, which is, I don't know if other countries have aquariums. Aquariums are huge. Wabi, did you have an aquarium?
01:49:59 Speaker_07
Yeah, at one point I had a little aquarium.
01:50:02 Speaker_06
Oh, at your house?
01:50:03 Speaker_08
Yes, and you must have had many friends that had aquariums. Yeah. I had an aquarium, I had an aquarium phase, and my buddies all had aquariums. Sure. And you dump some seahorses in there.
01:50:14 Speaker_08
I think you throw them in powder and then all of a sudden they're alive. There's something really interesting about seahorses where they can be transported as a powder and then become seahorses.
01:50:25 Speaker_06
God, I'm so happy I was spared that.
01:50:27 Speaker_08
So I had definitely seen them moving throughout aquariums.
01:50:29 Speaker_06
Yeah.
01:50:30 Speaker_08
Aquarii.
01:50:31 Speaker_06
Yeah.
01:50:32 Speaker_08
Okay.
01:50:33 Speaker_06
Anyway, back to the bear. Wow. Okay, the original bear mug has like basically a triangle square bottom rectangle. Salty Sea Dog sent me this new bear. Oh. And they said, it's only for me.
01:50:49 Speaker_09
Oh wow, congratulations.
01:50:51 Speaker_06
Isn't that so sweet?
01:50:52 Speaker_08
You know who that bear looks identical to? Did you ever read this book to Lincoln or Delta, The Great Paper Caper?
01:50:58 Speaker_06
Ding, ding, ding. What? Books about animals.
01:51:01 Speaker_08
Yeah, sure.
01:51:03 Speaker_06
I did read that to them, yeah. That's how I learned about bears.
01:51:06 Speaker_08
That's how the bear's drawn. It looks very similar to that.
01:51:10 Speaker_06
It's such a cute bear.
01:51:12 Speaker_08
The Great Paper Caper is one of my favorite children's books. The drawings are so cute and playful. Remember the owl, they're all like, they show that wide of all of them, what they're doing on their own.
01:51:23 Speaker_08
Like, well, someone's cutting down trees and using it to make paper. We don't know who. And they show all the suspects. And like the, I think the owl's just staring at a tree or something. One of them's peeing, like the snow's yellow where he's at.
01:51:36 Speaker_08
So cute.
01:51:37 Speaker_06
That's so cute.
01:51:38 Speaker_07
Have you have you read his Halloween book, Oliver Jeffers? No. What's it called? There's a ghost in this house. It's Oliver Jeffers is the guy who wrote that and illustrates it. And it's got like transparent pages. So there's ghosts when you turn them.
01:51:53 Speaker_06
Scary.
01:51:54 Speaker_08
I need to order that too late.
01:51:56 Speaker_06
No, you can still love it.
01:51:58 Speaker_08
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I'll be, well, look, we're really far out already for, um, Hollywood, Hollywood, Hollywood, Halloween 2025. We already have a lot of balls in motion, as you know, in an out truck.
01:52:11 Speaker_06
Yeah.
01:52:11 Speaker_08
So might as well just go. And then we'll also have this new book.
01:52:14 Speaker_06
Yeah. Get it now for next year.
01:52:16 Speaker_08
Yeah.
01:52:17 Speaker_06
Anyway, I'd really want to thank Salty Sea Ducks for this incredible gift. They also, they made a brown bear as well. That's the new one that went up on the website. They sent me that too. Oh my God. Just in case I liked that one more.
01:52:28 Speaker_08
So I don't understand why you don't have all of them. You have a brown one and a black one, but there's still one you don't have?
01:52:33 Speaker_06
The original black bear. Why can't, this is so easy to follow.
01:52:38 Speaker_08
Kind of. You've now got two bear mugs and you're telling me you don't have.
01:52:42 Speaker_06
There's a third. This one is a one of one. Yeah. Which is very special. The original bear is, there's two.
01:52:50 Speaker_08
Okay.
01:52:51 Speaker_06
But that live at Butanoki, the restaurant. And then Brown Bear went up on the website, but it is sold out.
01:52:57 Speaker_08
Do you think they could make me a ball set cowboy mug?
01:53:02 Speaker_06
Maybe.
01:53:02 Speaker_08
Cause like the mug part would be the balls.
01:53:05 Speaker_06
Uh-huh.
01:53:05 Speaker_08
And then there'd be a handle and then there'd be a penis sticking out. Oh God. And then that cowboy would be on just the, What are you saying, oh God?
01:53:13 Speaker_06
That's a nice- I don't want to make that make you a penis. Why?
01:53:16 Speaker_08
It's so playful. You have a painting and we had merch.
01:53:19 Speaker_06
I love it when you make it, but I would feel very uncomfortable asking somebody else to make a penis mug for you. But because Salty Sea Dogs is so nice. Also, I guess some listeners sent you a robot mug.
01:53:35 Speaker_08
What?
01:53:36 Speaker_06
Maybe you haven't received it yet. Spoiler.
01:53:38 Speaker_08
Oh God, I didn't know that.
01:53:40 Speaker_06
Because they sent gifts for the team.
01:53:44 Speaker_08
Oh my heavens.
01:53:46 Speaker_06
Wabi, come in here. You got a really, really good one.
01:53:51 Speaker_08
You're jealous of his. I am, I am.
01:53:55 Speaker_06
Yeah, it's a Sasquatch.
01:53:59 Speaker_08
Oh, but it's a playful little boy Sasquatch. It's so cute. Oh my God, these are adorable.
01:54:06 Speaker_06
Isn't it so cute?
01:54:07 Speaker_08
Do you get a little story about the person?
01:54:08 Speaker_06
Yeah, it's a certification for adoption. These are like cabbage patch dolls. Yeah, and they sent you that nice note.
01:54:17 Speaker_08
I love that we're all locked into our generation. He said Build-A-Bear, I said Cabbage Patch. What if, hold on before you pull it off, because I was being rascally about the whole mug thing and steal it and everything.
01:54:29 Speaker_08
What if the mug they made me was a middle finger? That would be great. And it just had eyes on the middle finger.
01:54:35 Speaker_06
Let's be clear, Salty Sea Dogs is not upset. They are very grateful.
01:54:41 Speaker_08
Okay, good, good, good, good.
01:54:43 Speaker_06
Butunoki, if people are stealing from their establishment, I understand if they're upset. Please don't do that.
01:54:47 Speaker_08
Unless you can leave $1,000. No, dad. Okay, don't do that. Okay. Is there a price they could leave?
01:54:52 Speaker_06
I really don't think so.
01:54:53 Speaker_08
$1 million, Monica.
01:54:54 Speaker_06
No, because they are the reason that these mugs are a thing.
01:54:59 Speaker_08
Right.
01:55:00 Speaker_06
And they brought them to America. They're Canadian. They brought these to America, okay?
01:55:05 Speaker_08
Wait, the mugs or the restaurant?
01:55:07 Speaker_06
The mugs.
01:55:08 Speaker_08
Okay.
01:55:08 Speaker_06
Well, the guy is Canadian, so he knows these people, and he did a nice thing, and he stocked his restaurant with these mugs, and it turned into such a fucking... Feeding frenzy. Because now they're like, we don't have enough.
01:55:20 Speaker_08
Because people are stealing them.
01:55:22 Speaker_06
Well, I don't know if they're stealing them or just... They're breaking. Well, no, they're very durable.
01:55:26 Speaker_08
Okay.
01:55:26 Speaker_06
But...
01:55:28 Speaker_08
Really quick, do you know what payola is?
01:55:30 Speaker_06
No.
01:55:31 Speaker_08
Rob, will you read the definition of payola? So in terrestrial radio, there would be DJs who would get in trouble for payola, which is they would start talking about products and they on the side were getting money. And it's against the law.
01:55:45 Speaker_07
Yeah, it's the practice of bribing someone to use their influence or position to promote a particular product or interest. Yes.
01:55:53 Speaker_06
They were getting paid.
01:55:54 Speaker_07
They were getting paid.
01:55:55 Speaker_06
Oh.
01:55:55 Speaker_08
You're like straddling the line.
01:55:57 Speaker_06
No!
01:55:59 Speaker_08
How dare you? I think you need to announce that you've received no money from anyone.
01:56:03 Speaker_06
Of course not.
01:56:04 Speaker_08
Right, just a couple thousand dollars in mugs.
01:56:09 Speaker_06
It's not a bribe though, because these are things I like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:56:12 Speaker_08
I'm just talking about them. But you started talking about how durable they were, and I was like, now it sounds a little bit like a pitch.
01:56:16 Speaker_06
They are durable. They're a great product. Everyone should buy them, and I get a kickback.
01:56:23 Speaker_08
She uses URL code, I get 10%, but it's not payola. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
01:56:57 Speaker_06
Therapy is essential to me during the holidays especially because I generally am going home.
01:57:05 Speaker_08
Right, yes.
01:57:05 Speaker_06
And I need sort of some stability. And guidance. And guidance to stay nice.
01:57:13 Speaker_08
Well, if you've ever been considering starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's completely online, so it's easy to integrate into your schedule. BetterHelp is flexible, too. It's easy to book or move appointments on their platform.
01:57:26 Speaker_08
And if the therapist you're matched with isn't the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash dax today to get 10% off your first month.
01:57:40 Speaker_08
That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P dot com slash DAX.
01:57:52 Speaker_06
Now yours, you're not gonna love what's happened, I think. I think you are and you're also not. Let me read it to you. Hi Dax, we wanted to send you a mug as a huge thank you for the exposure on Armchair.
01:58:04 Speaker_06
However, one of your amazing fans already sent you a robot. Instead, we sent you a mug for Kristen.
01:58:12 Speaker_01
Perfect.
01:58:13 Speaker_06
If you wish to give it to her. Also, we wanted to mention that we pulled our audience to hear what their favorite armchair expert episode was. 95% of your fans said day seven.
01:58:23 Speaker_06
It was a beautiful reminder that when we are open, honest, and humble, we are able to make the biggest impact. We will carry that lesson with us forever, and we thank you for that.
01:58:31 Speaker_08
Okay, now I'm super on board. Now? Well, yeah, now. Now I know where their spirit and heart is. Oh, it's a three-toed sloth.
01:58:45 Speaker_06
Oh, what if you couldn't remember it? What if it was a seahorse? It's a cute sloth.
01:58:50 Speaker_08
Oh, that's very cute. Kristen will love it.
01:58:53 Speaker_06
Give her her certificate of adoption.
01:58:55 Speaker_08
Okay, so Rob got one, you got one, Kristen got one.
01:58:58 Speaker_06
Where's your robot? You need to go find it.
01:59:00 Speaker_07
I'm asking Carly if she tracked it down.
01:59:02 Speaker_06
I haven't even seen a robot on the website. I'm nervous you got a special one.
01:59:07 Speaker_08
I'm nervous you got a special one.
01:59:10 Speaker_06
I mean, I got a special one too.
01:59:12 Speaker_08
Yeah.
01:59:13 Speaker_06
Anyway, we love Saucy Zita. We really do. Yeah, not a torture. Isn't that sweet?
01:59:17 Speaker_08
It is very sweet. I have updates.
01:59:20 Speaker_06
Great.
01:59:20 Speaker_08
So this is a rare case where I listened to the arm cherries. I listen to you as well, but I also listen to the arm cherries, which is, we talked a lot about my toe fungus. And people were, some people were almost a little panicked.
01:59:35 Speaker_08
Gotta go to the doctor. Melanoma, melanoma, melanoma. Melanoma, I know someone. Right, so a lot of melanoma stuff. Okay, there's a lot funny here. And this really kind of ding, ding, dings it as well. This is tied in in a weird way.
01:59:47 Speaker_06
The sloth.
01:59:48 Speaker_08
Yeah, so I go to my, now he got really mad when I called him a GP. He's not, he's an internist.
01:59:55 Speaker_06
Okay.
01:59:55 Speaker_08
And I hadn't realized that that was so offensive, but that's neither here nor there.
01:59:59 Speaker_06
Okay. Is it like canceled? Like the word is canceled?
02:00:02 Speaker_08
No, just he made a lot of analogies. I'm not going to repeat because then I'll offend some GPs, but just he's, I'm an internist. I pulled the toe out. He looks at it and while he's looking at it, he goes, okay, so you tell your wife, she's our shiksa.
02:00:20 Speaker_08
Wow. And he's an older male doctor.
02:00:23 Speaker_06
Okay. And so- So he looked at the toe and then he said that.
02:00:27 Speaker_08
Yeah. I think probably he was waiting as long as he could wait before he brought it up and then it just kind of came up. So he told me how much he loves Kristen as a shiksa, which is so funny.
02:00:39 Speaker_08
So then he goes, there's a guy across the hall, there's a podiatrist across the hall and I'm pretty close with him. I'm gonna run over there and see if he's got a minute to look. He's like, I'd rather have him just look at it.
02:00:47 Speaker_08
Privilege, privilege, privilege. The guy's got, 10 minutes. I'm with my mom, too. I brought my mom with me and I brought her in the room with me, which was really fun and made me feel like I was a little kid again.
02:00:57 Speaker_06
Yeah, you should have taken you should have gone to the pediatric.
02:01:01 Speaker_08
I should have. And then we should have gone to McDonald's and got an ice cream cone afterwards because I was a good, strong boy who was not afraid of shots.
02:01:06 Speaker_08
And so I said to her when I was leaving, I said, hey, you want to go to the doctor with me and pretend that I'm eight again? And she goes, yeah, I'd love to. So we went to breakfast first and then we went to the doctor.
02:01:15 Speaker_08
So then we go across the hall and go to the podiatrist. And he starts looking and he stops and he goes, I gotta tell you. that your wife is back to back within 10 minutes. Both of them, very older doctors. And I was like, this show is magic.
02:01:34 Speaker_06
Oh, it's huge.
02:01:35 Speaker_08
It's magic. How is this guy? And then I'm seeing young kids in New York. It's fair. I've not seen a show that's like everyone that's that wide and dads. Dads is the weird bullseye because the aforementioned guest Easter egg whose kids called. Yes. He too.
02:01:52 Speaker_08
He had seen it and his kids had it. That's neither here nor there.
02:01:54 Speaker_06
Be honest. Yeah. Were you a little like, can you just like, can you be a doctor for a second?
02:02:00 Speaker_08
No.
02:02:00 Speaker_06
Really?
02:02:01 Speaker_08
No, no, no. I thought. He knows her, and I got squeezed in, and I'm only benefiting from the notion that this gentleman just loved my wife's show.
02:02:13 Speaker_06
But don't you think that maybe, it's like rose-colored glasses, like when he looks at the toe, he's just like, oh, it's perfect, like her. And it could be melanoma.
02:02:25 Speaker_08
What if he goes, what if he looked at my toe and he goes, I can't believe she's with you. Yeah, exactly. That would be hysterical. No, you know, it's funny. And I'm going to credit my good friend, Kevin Zegers.
02:02:39 Speaker_08
Kevin Zegers, if you don't know who he is, he's a great actor and he's a good friend of mine and I absolutely love him. And he's got this incredible, he's on a new Taylor Sheridan show and he's a fucking like Marlboro man cowboy. He looks incredible.
02:02:50 Speaker_08
Keep seeing pictures of him. He looks gorgeous. Okay.
02:02:52 Speaker_06
Shout out.
02:02:53 Speaker_08
He texted me like three weeks into the nobody wants this phenomenon. And he said, I'm so grateful things are going good with your career right now because otherwise you'd be suicidal.
02:03:03 Speaker_09
Yeah.
02:03:04 Speaker_08
And I was like. That's, you know, that's probably true. So to answer your question, I'm not above that feeling bad, but I feel my self-esteem is very good currently. And as we know, it's very fluid. Sure.
02:03:18 Speaker_08
And on another day I might feel bad, but I felt just fine about it. And I am, I'm trying to live by what I keep telling the kids, which is, Hey, we're a team. When one of us shines, the whole team shines.
02:03:30 Speaker_08
We go to a party and Delta's the big hit because she's dancing. That's the Shepherds.
02:03:35 Speaker_06
Yeah, for sure.
02:03:36 Speaker_08
Team Shepherds, one.
02:03:37 Speaker_06
Well, that's a beautiful way of looking. I think that's correct. And I feel that.
02:03:41 Speaker_08
I feel like, you know what, this thing, it's a team. And if she's, everyone loves her, the team, that's great for the team.
02:03:48 Speaker_06
I know, it is great. I guess there are things, there are places
02:03:52 Speaker_08
That you want your own attention?
02:03:53 Speaker_06
It's not about attention. I don't want you to know me or anyone in my life.
02:03:58 Speaker_08
Oh, like if I was in there for anal warts, again, no shame. People get anal warts, it's not their fault.
02:04:04 Speaker_06
Like my waxer.
02:04:05 Speaker_08
But if I was on all fours and my butt cheeks were spread and he's looking at this outgrowth.
02:04:09 Speaker_06
And he's like, your wife's my schicksal.
02:04:11 Speaker_08
Oh my God, I was watching a show. I thought I spilled my popcorn. I was laughing so hard at whatever part.
02:04:16 Speaker_06
Yeah, it's like, I wish you just didn't know me. I wanna be anonymous.
02:04:18 Speaker_08
That's fair. I wasn't too humiliated by this. Okay. So great distinction. Yeah, if I was in there for erectile dysfunction, again, no shade. It happens to tons of men.
02:04:26 Speaker_03
Of course.
02:04:27 Speaker_08
But these things that would be hard for me to go in and talk about.
02:04:30 Speaker_03
Sure.
02:04:31 Speaker_08
I might wanna be anonymous.
02:04:32 Speaker_06
Yeah, okay.
02:04:34 Speaker_08
He looked at the toe. He goes, not melanoma. Right away, boom, not melanoma.
02:04:38 Speaker_06
Your wife's too hot for that.
02:04:39 Speaker_08
And so here's.
02:04:41 Speaker_06
can definitely not be doing right now.
02:04:44 Speaker_08
And I'll say this is a bit of a PSA. And this is not a I'm not saying it can't happen another way. But what they did tell me was it when it's melanoma, if you have melanoma under your toenail,
02:04:55 Speaker_08
you'll generally see it'll start kind of growing into your cuticle. Now we've got a different thing, like you'll be able to see some of the darkness in your cuticle probably. Also, so then he got after that now.
02:05:08 Speaker_08
He got a pair of little sharp pliers and he just started going, no shot of numbing agent.
02:05:14 Speaker_06
Did you feel it?
02:05:15 Speaker_08
Oh yeah.
02:05:15 Speaker_06
Oh.
02:05:16 Speaker_08
We're talking about the show and what's good about the show.
02:05:18 Speaker_06
Oh my God, Jesus Christ.
02:05:21 Speaker_08
Do you wanna see it?
02:05:22 Speaker_06
Yes.
02:05:23 Speaker_08
Okay.
02:05:23 Speaker_06
Oh my God. This is so exciting. And also this is payola. This is like getting people to watch us. Okay.
02:05:30 Speaker_08
Maybe I can hold it up to her camera for one second. Okay. Look guys, it's not great, but I got to tell you that is an enormous improvement. No, here we go.
02:05:49 Speaker_06
Can you see it?
02:05:52 Speaker_08
Oh, he sounded just like a camera operator. Yep. Like he's in the sweet spot of it. Total sharp razor focus. Okay. Okay.
02:05:58 Speaker_06
Let me look. Wow. Okay.
02:06:01 Speaker_08
Cause you've seen it in a lot of iterations now. You've seen the enormous like thick, Oh, Oh, Oh, here's a brag. Do you know what the doctor had by his side? Like the closest instrument he had? The toe doctor? A Dremel. Exactly what I've been using. Yeah.
02:06:21 Speaker_08
I felt very vindicated by that. Well, I don't know. There's not a lot of ways to use a drummer. Go ahead. Well, did you see the photo?
02:06:32 Speaker_06
You should have seen.
02:06:33 Speaker_08
I'll show you the photo. Do you want to zoom in on that too? Hold on. Let me get you a photo.
02:06:38 Speaker_06
Yeah, it looks way better. It's not black anymore, right?
02:06:42 Speaker_08
It was the black.
02:06:43 Speaker_06
There is some red, but that looks like blood.
02:06:45 Speaker_08
Okay. Here you go, Rob. That's what it looked like. It's a big improvement, right? Are you daring me?
02:06:52 Speaker_06
No! Are you gonna? Oh my God. I think so. Wow.
02:06:56 Speaker_08
So that's where I was putting the safety, hot safety pin through. And then there's soot gathered in the holes as you see. But see all that darkness? That's what we were worried about. What an ugly toenail. But anyways, I skipped out of that appointment.
02:07:12 Speaker_08
I skipped.
02:07:13 Speaker_06
Yeah.
02:07:14 Speaker_08
Because it's fine.
02:07:15 Speaker_06
Okay.
02:07:16 Speaker_08
Everything's fine.
02:07:17 Speaker_06
So there's nothing more for you to do?
02:07:18 Speaker_08
I don't think so. Oh, I'm going to go see him in three months.
02:07:21 Speaker_06
Okay.
02:07:21 Speaker_08
Yeah.
02:07:22 Speaker_06
Follow up. Yeah. I hope the black doesn't come back.
02:07:25 Speaker_08
By the way, that's this, this is nothing, but it's funny. I just said three months. Cause he said, okay, so do you want to come back in three months or do you, do you want to make a, an appointment?
02:07:35 Speaker_06
Can I come back in three months or can we wait until season two is out?
02:07:43 Speaker_08
You want to coordinate it with the drop of season two?" I said, yes. And he goes, which one? I go, I want to call and schedule it in three months. Basically, I got this like, I got this commitment phobia right away.
02:07:54 Speaker_08
I was like, I don't, I can't, I don't know what it was. I was like, I can't commit to coming back in three months right now. Again, you know, I'm already know my issue, but I'm like, but I'm committing to call to schedule it in three months.
02:08:06 Speaker_08
He's like, just leave. Like, I don't. I don't know, the result is where it makes sense.
02:08:10 Speaker_06
Why is she with you? I just cannot understand.
02:08:12 Speaker_08
I'm gonna go home and re-watch it and try to wrap my head around why you're... Wait a minute.
02:08:18 Speaker_03
Wait! No way, Carly. Oh my God, the robot is so cute.
02:08:27 Speaker_09
I like to drink hot coffee. It gives me a charge in my boots. Look how cute it is.
02:08:34 Speaker_08
Oh my goodness, that is adorable.
02:08:38 Speaker_06
He's not on the site.
02:08:39 Speaker_08
Well, whoever bought this for me, I don't deserve it. My toe is disgusting.
02:08:43 Speaker_06
No.
02:08:44 Speaker_08
But thank you.
02:08:45 Speaker_06
Oh my God, that robot is adorable.
02:08:48 Speaker_08
That is adorable. Okay, so there was, that's the toe update.
02:08:51 Speaker_06
Okay.
02:08:52 Speaker_08
And I'm sorry I scared Cherries. Yeah, that's. I'm melanoma free. I went to New York last weekend and was a part of the New Yorker Festival.
02:09:03 Speaker_06
Yeah, how cool.
02:09:04 Speaker_08
It was really cool. Not just my thing, but just even being in the green room. And then Tyler, and I'm afraid to say her last name and I'm embarrassed, but it's F-O-G-G-A-T-T. She is a senior editor at The New Yorker, and she's under 30.
02:09:21 Speaker_06
Oh.
02:09:22 Speaker_08
And she is... Oh, my dad's calling.
02:09:25 Speaker_06
Oh, great.
02:09:29 Speaker_08
Cat eyes. Remember when we called them about cat eyes?
02:09:31 Speaker_06
Hey Monica, what's going on? We just have a quick question about- Cartoons from your childhood. Did you watch cartoons? Did you have cartoons in India? Television cartoons? Yeah.
02:09:46 Speaker_05
No. Okay. When I grew up, we didn't even have a TV.
02:09:50 Speaker_06
That's what I said. That's what I told Dax, and he didn't believe me.
02:09:53 Speaker_08
So when's the first time you saw a cartoon?
02:09:55 Speaker_05
Probably. Well, I'm British. I mean, I can't be sure, but I think only after coming to this country.
02:10:02 Speaker_06
Yeah, that makes sense. There are many right now. Right. But not back then.
02:10:08 Speaker_05
Back then. Yeah. As I said, you know, I was in college when we I moved to New Delhi when I first had a TV, and that was black and white.
02:10:18 Speaker_08
Ashok, we're beating around the bush. Monica didn't know what a seahorse looked like, and she's blaming her Indian heritage. And I think that's bullshit.
02:10:26 Speaker_06
Yeah, dad, do you know what a seahorse is? I don't. See, exactly. You won. Exactly. You won. I knew it. Because also I was saying.
02:10:37 Speaker_08
I don't.
02:10:38 Speaker_06
I was saying that.
02:10:39 Speaker_08
One of the smartest men in the world.
02:10:41 Speaker_06
Yes, because in India, don't you think, dad, don't you think they put less of an emphasis on animals, like pets, than they do in America?
02:10:49 Speaker_05
When I grew up, that was the case. Yeah. But not anymore. Okay. I mean, at least, you know, it's really associated with wealth, you know, people get, have more money, extra food to give to an animal.
02:11:05 Speaker_06
They have dogs and domesticated pets.
02:11:07 Speaker_05
You know, we had a dog when I grew up.
02:11:09 Speaker_06
Dad, you didn't really. You had a feral dog that ran around the house.
02:11:14 Speaker_05
Obviously, now there are people with a lot of pets.
02:11:17 Speaker_06
I know, but then I'm talking about my generation of parents like you guys. You guys didn't have animals, domesticated animals as much.
02:11:28 Speaker_06
I don't think, because I was saying with kids here, they read storybooks like from early on and they're identifying animals. It's like part of the curriculum. And that's not what you guys did.
02:11:41 Speaker_05
No, we did not do that.
02:11:44 Speaker_06
I'm glad to talk to you because I am right. It's very clear. And rare. It's very common.
02:11:51 Speaker_03
And it's just another one to add to the list.
02:11:55 Speaker_06
Anyway, sorry we interrupted your meeting.
02:11:56 Speaker_05
That's okay. I know I got to the meeting. Okay. How was everything else? Everything else good?
02:12:03 Speaker_08
Yeah. Have you have you watched Nobody Wants This?
02:12:07 Speaker_05
No. What is it? I think I've heard about it.
02:12:10 Speaker_06
It's Kristen's new show on Netflix. It's.
02:12:13 Speaker_05
Oh, yeah. Yes. I've not watched it now.
02:12:18 Speaker_06
Yeah. Dax thinks, well, it's been coming up that a lot of dads have secretly watched it. And so we've been asking around. It's good. It's a great it's a good show.
02:12:27 Speaker_05
Yeah. I will. OK. It's already on Netflix.
02:12:33 Speaker_06
Yeah, it is.
02:12:35 Speaker_05
It is.
02:12:37 Speaker_06
All right, Dad, we're going to go. Oh, well, bye.
02:12:40 Speaker_05
Bye. Love you. Bye. Bye.
02:12:44 Speaker_08
Okay, so I was talking about Tyler. She's so impressive. I ended up reading a bunch of her writing before I went and she interviewed me.
02:12:51 Speaker_08
And she was so smart and wonderful and impressive and I had so much fun and she made me cry a bunch of times and it was really, really lovely. But fuck that, because now I'm remembering the very funniest thing that happened when we were in New York.
02:13:06 Speaker_08
And I have all the photographic and video evidence of this. Okay, so we went to Robert Downey's play on Friday night, McNeil. And Raffi, my friend Raffi's also in it. And we're sitting in the theater before the show starts.
02:13:20 Speaker_08
And behind us is, I don't know, four or five women. And they see Kristen. And so they start telling her that they loved her Netflix show. They don't say the title out loud. Now there's three older women in front of us.
02:13:37 Speaker_08
And they just kind of detect someone's famous behind them, right? Because there's a hubbub.
02:13:42 Speaker_06
Yeah.
02:13:43 Speaker_08
So now they're really curious. I'm watching the whole, I have the best vantage point for this entire thing. So I'm watching that. And then I watched a woman pull out her phone and it's just directly in front of me. It's four feet away from me.
02:13:55 Speaker_08
And she, Monica and I filmed all this. It's so, I haven't been laughing so hard in so long. She wrote, her first search on Google was like romantic movies. So she searched. Romantic movies. And of course, where's that going to take her?
02:14:11 Speaker_08
That's Harry, Sally, and she's just, I'm watching her scroll. That's not it. That's not him. And then she refines her search. And she writes, what's on Netflix? Now all this stuff comes up and she's, and now I'm like, I'm nudging Chris.
02:14:26 Speaker_08
I'm like, oh my God, look at this woman's trying just like the most carpet
02:14:30 Speaker_06
Yes.
02:14:30 Speaker_08
Bomb search to try to figure out who you are. This is so funny. So she's scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. I've got probably nine minutes of her searching the entire Internet.
02:14:40 Speaker_08
She starts whittling it down and then she realized because it's a movie, that was her cardinal sin is she was usually including movies. in her searches.
02:14:49 Speaker_08
Somehow by the minute nine, she gets to TV shows and I'm watching and I have the exact moment where she's scrolling and she sees, nobody wants this. And then she hits it really excitedly.
02:15:01 Speaker_08
And then she moves to her friend and I dolly right and I get it and I see her thing. And then her friend sees and now they're really excited. Then she pulls her phone. Now this is the knockout punch of all knockout punch. And she texts her friend
02:15:17 Speaker_08
Oh my God, you're not gonna believe it. We're sitting in front of Zach Shepard and Kristen Bell. We have the video, we're gonna post it. Nothing could be funnier. Then the person she's texting writes back, it's Dak.
02:15:32 Speaker_06
D-A-K. Oh no, my God, oh my God.
02:15:38 Speaker_08
When we saw the correction was no, it's Dak with a K, Holy cow, was I fucking laughing so hard. And we have the entire thing on video. Oh my God, was that funny. I could not get over that. Oh no, it's Dak. I'm in front of Zach Shepard.
02:16:02 Speaker_06
What did she say that made you cry?
02:16:04 Speaker_08
I think it started with, And this came up in yesterday's episode. You know, there's going to be a few that they're going to single out of episodes we've had.
02:16:15 Speaker_08
My mom being one of them, I end up having to explain how special my mom is to me and how she's the foundation of why I'm curious and she's so empathetic and I mean, next level empathy where it's like, even the bad guy deserves some compassion.
02:16:34 Speaker_08
Even that kid who killed another kid in a drunk driving accident, what's happening with his family, that spirit of hers. But of course, in trying to describe my mom out loud on a microphone, which I don't do often, I couldn't get through it.
02:16:48 Speaker_08
And then I'm trying to tell about the episode, which I can barely kind of, get through. And, um, and then she's reading some stuff, some reactions to things that were, you know, I was just, I was a mess. The first third of it, I was still funny.
02:17:03 Speaker_08
I hope, I think people were laughing enough, but yeah, I got, I got, uh, pretty emotional. What I was thinking when I left was I was like, Hey, that
02:17:12 Speaker_08
Of course, I just immediately get insecure, like, God, it's so self-indulgent to be like crying on a stage. You don't make time to sit down and go over your life. You would never like sit there and then just reflect on your life.
02:17:25 Speaker_08
But then in an interview like that, it's kind of this. I mean, I don't know why I'm saying this is what we do for a living.
02:17:30 Speaker_06
Yeah.
02:17:31 Speaker_08
But you're forced to walk through your life a little bit.
02:17:34 Speaker_06
Yeah.
02:17:35 Speaker_08
And I'm at the old age where that makes me emotional now.
02:17:39 Speaker_06
Yeah, that's very sweet. Yeah.
02:17:41 Speaker_08
It was really, really fun and she's incredible. We should interview her at some point.
02:17:44 Speaker_06
Oh, I would love that.
02:17:45 Speaker_08
Yeah, she's a powerhouse.
02:17:47 Speaker_06
That's a ding, ding, ding to Jude because we talked about crying a lot.
02:17:50 Speaker_08
We did talk about crying a lot.
02:17:53 Speaker_06
I really liked him.
02:17:54 Speaker_08
I really, really liked him too.
02:17:56 Speaker_06
Yeah, he was a very cool person. Okay, a few things. Had Cate Blanchett done Elizabeth by the time she did Talented Mr. Ripley? Yes.
02:18:07 Speaker_09
She did.
02:18:07 Speaker_06
Was Hard Eight P.T. Anderson's first film his first feature? Yes. Drugs and alcohol are down with younger generations. That is true. Young adults in the U.S. have become progressively less likely to use alcohol over the past two decades.
02:18:23 Speaker_06
But the percentages of 18 to 34 year olds saying they ever drink that they drink in the past week and that they sometimes drink more than they should all lower today.
02:18:33 Speaker_08
Well, those are the three categories.
02:18:34 Speaker_06
At the same time, drinking on all three metrics has trended up among older Americans while holding fairly steady among middle-aged adults. That's interesting.
02:18:43 Speaker_08
Yeah. It would be too blanket of a single explanation of why older people drink more.
02:18:48 Speaker_06
Yeah.
02:18:49 Speaker_08
But I do wonder, and I think a lot of people are like, I'll retire. It's going to be great. Life's going to be a blast. No work. And they get there and they're like, oh, that's a little boring. I don't really know what the fuck to do.
02:19:02 Speaker_08
Why doesn't this feel the way I was anticipating for the last 40 years of my labor? And then what are you going to do? Well, let's get drunk.
02:19:09 Speaker_06
Yeah, also in like, the rate of drinking in homes is very high. Because also like, they're social with each other.
02:19:19 Speaker_08
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
02:19:20 Speaker_06
So that's kind of interesting.
02:19:22 Speaker_08
I wonder if your hangovers get, they must, it seems like they get worse and worse and worse, because mine just got worse and worse. And as I hear from everyone as they age, they get worse.
02:19:30 Speaker_06
But they can sleep in a lot.
02:19:32 Speaker_08
But they don't, they wake up at 3.30 in the morning. They're having lunch at 10 a.m.
02:19:37 Speaker_03
Oh, God.
02:19:39 Speaker_06
You talked about a group in Germany called the Deutschland something group, which I couldn't find, but there is a really big group forming in Germany, a far right group called AFD. What does that stand for?
02:19:54 Speaker_06
The Far Right Alternative for Germany, so Alternative for Deutschland, I guess. Is that the one? Yeah, that's the one. Oh, got it. Alternative Deutschland, yeah.
02:20:02 Speaker_08
Yeah, there's millions of people. It's a very concerning, it's a healthy chunk of people.
02:20:08 Speaker_06
So scary.
02:20:08 Speaker_08
Great frontline, people should check that out.
02:20:10 Speaker_06
Oh, yeah.
02:20:11 Speaker_08
Everyone should just watch more frontline in general. It's so good.
02:20:14 Speaker_06
We did not talk about the substance, but we'll have to talk about it next time, because I saw it, and we have stuff to discuss.
02:20:20 Speaker_08
We do, we do.
02:20:23 Speaker_06
People should try to see it.
02:20:24 Speaker_08
See it.
02:20:25 Speaker_06
Between now and next time.
02:20:26 Speaker_08
Which is dicey, because we also told people to watch Chimp Crazy, and then we were a little late on our explanation.
02:20:31 Speaker_06
Well, we also wanna give people time to see it.
02:20:33 Speaker_08
Yeah, we gotta give people the time they need.
02:20:35 Speaker_06
Yeah, people need time. And that's it.
02:20:38 Speaker_08
All right, I love you.
02:20:39 Speaker_06
Love you.
02:20:54 Speaker_08
Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
02:21:08 Speaker_08
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02:21:15 Speaker_01
Hello, ladies and gerbs, boys and girls. The Grinch is back again to ruin your Christmas season with his The Grinch Holiday Podcast.
02:21:22 Speaker_01
After last year, he's learned a thing or two about hosting, and he's ready to rant against Christmas cheer and roast his celebrity guests like chestnuts on an open fire.
02:21:32 Speaker_01
You can listen with the whole family as guest stars like Jon Hamm, Brittany Broski, and Danny DeVito try to persuade the mean old Grinch that there's a lot to love about the insufferable holiday season. But that's not all.
02:21:44 Speaker_01
Somebody stole all the children of Whoville's letters to Santa, and everybody thinks the Grinch is responsible. It's a real Whoville whodunit. Can Cindy, Lou, and Max help clear the Grinch's name? Grab your hot cocoa and cozy slippers to find out.
02:21:58 Speaker_01
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