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Episode: Jay Shetty on Self-Love, Stillness, and Growth

Author: Goop, Inc. and Audacy
Duration: 00:45:46

Episode Shownotes

In this episode from 2021, Gwyneth is joined by Jay Shetty for an insightful conversation on cultivating self-love, finding stillness in discomfort, and the unlocking the power of personal growth. Together, they explore how a deeper sense of self-awareness can enhance relationships and help us navigate life's challenges with grace.

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Full Transcript

00:00:03 Speaker_02
When you are pioneering anything or introducing new ideas to the culture, you get criticized. You do? Yeah. Did you hear about that? I didn't find the one. I found someone I respected, and we made it the one.

00:00:17 Speaker_02
In a sort of longing kind of view of love, people understand each other as if by magic.

00:00:22 Speaker_00
Nothing in itself is addictive on the one hand. On the other hand, everything could be addictive if there's an emptiness in that person that needs to be filled.

00:00:30 Speaker_02
I now know that nobody changes until they change their energy. And when you change your energy, you change your life.

00:00:38 Speaker_03
I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. This is The Goop Podcast. Bringing together thought leaders, culture changers, creatives, founders and CEOs, scientists, doctors, healers and seekers. Here to start conversations.

00:00:53 Speaker_03
Because simply asking questions and listening has the power to change the way we see the world. Here we go. This week, we're sharing a gem from the Goop podcast archives. Today I'm sharing one new conversation from our In Goop Health Wellness Summit.

00:01:13 Speaker_03
It's with Jay Shetty, the New York Times bestselling author of Think Like a Monk, who joined me on stage at the end of the night. Jay is also a beloved coach and a former monk, and he has beautiful stories about his time living in an ashram.

00:01:27 Speaker_03
While many people can talk eloquently and abstractly about finding purpose, Jay's rare gift is that he's able to inspire and teach us through practical insights.

00:01:37 Speaker_03
Jay believes that the most significant relationship you can have is with yourself, and that knowing ourselves intimately gives us more grace to engage with others and the world around us.

00:01:47 Speaker_03
In this conversation, we talked about redirection, finding stillness and discomfort, using meditation as a self-litmus test, and the value of gratitude when shared with someone else. Let's get to my conversation with Jay Shetty.

00:02:03 Speaker_03
I'm so happy to see you.

00:02:05 Speaker_01
So nice to see you. Thank you for having me.

00:02:07 Speaker_03
I didn't know if you were going to make it after all those Dwali parties that I tell you.

00:02:12 Speaker_01
It has been a really crazy week, but in a good way. And I'm just really grateful to be here with all of you. Thank you so much for having me. This is beautiful.

00:02:20 Speaker_03
Thank you so much. Thank you. So I would love it if you could just give everybody a little bit of your amazing story and how you came through being a monk and into being this amazing life coach and motivator and all of the amazing things that you are.

00:02:40 Speaker_01
So I was born and raised in London and I grew up in a family where I had three options to be a doctor, a lawyer or a failure. And I chose the third option.

00:02:52 Speaker_01
And so to my parents' surprise, when I was 18 years old, I told them that when I graduated from school, that I would go off to become a monk, and they didn't believe me. They were just like, yeah, sure, it's a phase.

00:03:04 Speaker_01
And so when I was 18 years old, I was invited to an event at my university, and it was somewhat similar to this, in the sense that the event was around introducing people at university to thinkers, thought leaders.

00:03:19 Speaker_01
I know you've had an incredible lineup of guests. this evening and I went along because my friends promised me that we would go to a bar afterwards. I didn't want to go to this event.

00:03:31 Speaker_01
And I said, as long as we go to a bar afterwards, I'll come and hear this monk or whatever you want me to hear. So I went along to this event and this monk was speaking and I went there expecting nothing.

00:03:42 Speaker_01
but I walked away feeling like I'd completely found a new path in life because the monk was speaking about selflessness and service and using our time to have an impact in the world.

00:03:54 Speaker_01
So when I graduated, I traded my suits for robes, I lived on the floor, all my possessions fit inside a gym locker, we meditated for four to eight hours a day, and I lived that life for three years.

00:04:07 Speaker_01
And then at the end of it, there were two things, and the fast version is my teachers said to me that they felt that it was time for me to go on and share what I'd learned. It was one of those, it's not you, it's me conversations.

00:04:20 Speaker_01
I basically got kicked out of being a monk. So my parents were like, you failed at this too. And when I came back, which was now eight years ago, I really, really

00:04:31 Speaker_01
saw a world in which everything I'd learned, I felt had so much of a space in these busy, hectic, chaotic lives. And I had no idea how I was going to try and share what I'd learned, but I started and took a few steps and then

00:04:47 Speaker_01
You know, here we are today where I've been really fortunate and feel really grateful that I've been able to work with so many incredible people. I've been able to connect with so many beautiful humans.

00:04:57 Speaker_01
I've been able to connect with so many of you that I bumped into today as well. And I think that it all started because I met someone who changed the trajectory of my life. And had I not met him, then I wouldn't be here today.

00:05:12 Speaker_03
But that's a pretty extreme outcome, right? Like a lot of us have read a book or heard a talk and felt inspired or felt a calling to change our lives or to think about things in a different way, but to go and renounce

00:05:27 Speaker_03
life as you knew it for three years is a pretty bold move. And I wanted to ask you, what was the process like of letting go of the material world, if you will? And was that traumatic at all? Was there grief in it?

00:05:44 Speaker_03
Like, how did you get used to the life as among having been just a normal London student?

00:05:51 Speaker_01
I think there were a few things. The first thing was when I met him, and now when I reflect on it, I realized that at the time, when I was 18 years old, I'd met a lot of people who were rich. I'd met people that had been famous.

00:06:05 Speaker_01
I'd met people who were successful. I'd met people who were strong and powerful and beautiful, but I don't think I'd met anyone who was truly happy. And he was happy. He still is happy. He's still a monk today. And he was happy.

00:06:20 Speaker_01
And I thought, I want to understand that. And it was almost a moment of, I want that. So my 22-year-old self, when I went off to become a monk, I had this boundless enthusiasm to say, I want to live this process exactly how they live it.

00:06:38 Speaker_01
I don't want to take any shortcuts. I don't want to let my mind keep me in my comfort zone. I have to go all out.

00:06:46 Speaker_01
And so I feel like it was almost a boundary or a commitment that I made that no matter how I feel, I'm going to live it exactly how they do. Because maybe if I don't do it how they are, then I won't reap the benefits.

00:07:00 Speaker_01
And so I think actually it was easier at the time. Now if you ask me to do it, I'd be like, no, I'm fine. I really like my bed and I like sleeping for eight hours a night. But at the time I had this enthusiasm which was, I just want to see if it works.

00:07:15 Speaker_01
And I think that's why mini experiments are so important in our lives. You don't have to do it for three years, but the mini experiment of, let me for a week follow it exactly like this person's saying.

00:07:30 Speaker_01
Let me for a weekend do exactly what I'm hearing or reading in this book or from this speaker. Let me for this day just live that way and see what happens.

00:07:39 Speaker_01
And so actually removing myself from the material world when I became a monk was easier because for the four years in between, I'd been doing these mini experiments.

00:07:50 Speaker_01
So the first time I went to the ashram and they told me that I couldn't listen to 50 Cent, that moment was hard. Because I was like, what, I don't get to listen to music? And then they told me that I wouldn't get to watch television.

00:08:03 Speaker_01
So the first time I went, that was hard. But what I realized was the sacrifice was just not comparable to the payoff. And I think that's what it comes down to. You have the choice to do all these things whenever you want, anytime.

00:08:20 Speaker_01
So to close off for a day, a weekend, a week, it's worth the test. It's worth the experiment.

00:08:33 Speaker_03
It's so interesting. So what do you think it is about not having free will in whatever these circumstances are that has power in it?

00:08:44 Speaker_01
Well, I think, Gwyneth, I think we've come to a place where we feel that freedom and the freedom of unlimited choice is power.

00:08:55 Speaker_01
And we've all realized, and the science and the studies all show this, that the more choice we have, the worse mistakes we make. And we make poorer decisions based on this complete limitless choice.

00:09:07 Speaker_01
And I found that actually when you stripped away some of that choice, your ability to make decisions grew because now I wasn't experiencing what we all know now to be called decision fatigue.

00:09:19 Speaker_01
I wasn't wasting my time making decisions that were irrelevant to my personal fulfillment and satisfaction. So now when you're not having to think about certain choices in your day, you're freed up to make choices in a healthier way.

00:09:33 Speaker_01
And so I found that actually, making certain parts of our life systematic, routine, habitual, communal as well, allowed for space for creativity, spontaneity, and true expression.

00:09:48 Speaker_01
Whereas I think a lot of us feel like, no, no, if I just can choose everything that I do every day, that will give rise to spontaneity, but it does the opposite.

00:09:57 Speaker_03
Does that make sense?

00:09:58 Speaker_01
Yeah, totally.

00:09:59 Speaker_03
It sounds like it adds, like these are the layers of responsibility that we heap on ourselves, which is like choices that we make actually keep us sort of enslaved to the responsibility.

00:10:12 Speaker_01
Yes, exactly.

00:10:13 Speaker_03
So when you were there, were you able to really connect with happiness? And did you bring it home?

00:10:26 Speaker_01
I think when I was there, I was able to really learn how to find stillness in discomfort. And I think that was the biggest thing that I gained from that.

00:10:39 Speaker_01
So I'll tell you a story of an experience that I would never wish on anyone and do not recommend. But we did a 72-hour train journey from North India to South India, 72 hours.

00:10:52 Speaker_01
It has random stops, but you don't actually physically get off for longer than 15 minutes at a stop. So there's no pause, so 72 hours. And as a monk you travel in like coach, but coach in India is not coach in the United States.

00:11:08 Speaker_01
So coach is like you're literally surrounded by people who haven't paid for a ticket.

00:11:13 Speaker_01
Like it's just infiltrated with people and you're just surrounded by all these villages and people that you haven't even met and they don't have a ticket and you don't even know where they're going. And I decided that I wouldn't eat

00:11:25 Speaker_01
for three days, because on the first day, I saw the state of the toilet and the restroom on the train, and so I decided I would do a voluntary fast. And, you know, to all my teachers, I seemed really detached at this point. They were just like, wow.

00:11:41 Speaker_01
And I was like, yeah, I'm just, I'm so detached and renounced now from food. And really, I was just like, no, I do not want to go in there. So this is a very uncomfortable scenario.

00:11:53 Speaker_01
As a Londoner, I'm used to playing in the underground and used to driving around in my car. And I'm used to clean bathrooms and all the rest of it. So this is an uncomfortable situation.

00:12:05 Speaker_01
And it was really interesting because I remember saying to my teacher, who we were traveling with, that I would meditate in the stops. I said to him, it's too chaotic on the train. I said, it's too difficult to focus on the train.

00:12:19 Speaker_01
When we stop, I'll get off, I'll meditate for 20 minutes, I'll come back on, and I'll do that every stop. And he looked me in the eyes and he said, do you think life is going to be chaotic like the train or still like the stop?

00:12:36 Speaker_01
And I was like, is this a trick question? I don't know. He said, life is going to be chaotic like the train. And so if you don't learn how to meditate on the train, meditating on the stop is not going to help you.

00:12:50 Speaker_01
And I think that in a nutshell is how I feel I experienced Joy, happiness. The happiness wasn't in an experience of feeling happy in the way we think about it. It was in the joy of knowing I could navigate any situation.

00:13:09 Speaker_01
It wasn't that you felt happy because you did something right. It's because you never felt like you didn't know what to do to navigate pain.

00:13:18 Speaker_01
And so that's where the definition of knowing how to navigate challenges became more joyful than the idea that I could avoid challenges.

00:13:28 Speaker_01
And I think that desire of where we are today, where we call them unwanted emotions, the challenge is everything we don't want is unavoidable.

00:13:38 Speaker_01
So if I say I never want to feel pain again, or I never want to feel stress again, that's not true for anyone, including the monks, including me, including any of us.

00:13:49 Speaker_01
And so actually knowing that I am going to feel all of these things, but I know what to do with them, that is a position of strength and joy and happiness. And what do you do if... Laugh is actually truly one of them.

00:14:02 Speaker_01
The mind is compared to a monkey in the Vedas. And it's been popularized today in psychology as well as the monkey mind. But monks refer to the mind like a monkey. And if you've ever seen a monkey, they are hilarious.

00:14:16 Speaker_01
So in India we would see monkeys all the time and they would trade their banana for a credit card. Like they would literally swap and then they would swap it right back.

00:14:25 Speaker_01
And you'd see monkeys like chase anything that looked like food in your bag and they'd rip it and steal it like they're the best thieves. And monkeys are these hilarious characters.

00:14:35 Speaker_01
And the reason why the mind is compared to a monkey is because sometimes we need to laugh at the things our mind comes up with. Now, what we choose to do currently is we choose to criticize ourselves, or we choose to judge ourselves.

00:14:48 Speaker_01
When our mind does something that we don't like, we think, this literally happened to me the other day.

00:14:52 Speaker_01
I was in Dallas at my first keynote back since the pandemic, and I went in to get a tea at a coffee shop and get some coffee for some of my team members. And I was waiting there, and I went to the front, and the barista was serving us.

00:15:09 Speaker_01
And she made a mistake in how much change she gave me, and I didn't notice actually. I was like, oh, thank you so much. And I was about to walk out. And literally as I was just about to turn, she said, I'm the worst.

00:15:21 Speaker_01
She just stopped and I said, are you okay? And she said, oh, I just gave you the wrong change. I'm the worst. I'm so sorry. And I literally looked her in the eye and I said, you're not the worst. You're a human. You made a mistake. It's okay. It's fine.

00:15:34 Speaker_01
You're wonderful. Thank you for noticing. And then she gave me the right change and I left. And I was just thinking, wow, she saw the monkey mind make a mistake and she judged herself. She criticized herself.

00:15:46 Speaker_01
And so the first thing we have to do is honestly switch critiquing for laughing. Laugh when the monkey mind makes a mistake. When your mind tells you something that genuinely is not true, allow yourself to laugh.

00:15:56 Speaker_01
Allow yourself to see it with a bit of humor. And when you start to see that, you start to notice that when you don't take the mind so seriously, it doesn't have that much of a serious effect on you.

00:16:07 Speaker_01
Moving on from that, sometimes our emotions are a bit more deeper and it's hard to laugh at them. They're more painful than that.

00:16:15 Speaker_01
And I find that, again, in that scenario, our desire is to push them under the carpet, lock them in a door, force them away.

00:16:24 Speaker_01
And actually, in those moments, understanding that, accepting that emotion, and recognizing that, knowing that it's gonna be there, it's almost like the weather. If I always say, I don't want it to rain, I never want it to rain,

00:16:40 Speaker_01
And then it rains, now I'm scared, I'm unprepared, and I'm stressed. Whereas if I accept that it's going to rain, I get time to go and pack my umbrella and my raincoat.

00:16:49 Speaker_01
And so I think it's about developing the umbrella and the raincoat, and for our emotions, the umbrella is community, and the raincoat is our tools and our habits and our practices of reflection that help us break them down.

00:17:02 Speaker_03
How do we go about cultivating that inner life, that space, so that we can separate ourselves from these emotions that blow through us and seem like they take us over?

00:17:17 Speaker_01
I genuinely believe that we all have to have a foundation of our daily routine that gives us the feelings we want. So the challenge is that we're surrounded by a day where we don't get the feeling we want, and that's what we consider to be a bad day.

00:17:35 Speaker_01
I didn't get what I wanted, therefore today's a bad day. And actually in that moment, instead of wanting a good day, if we start by creating a foundational set of habits and activities that can set us up for that day, the healthier we are.

00:17:48 Speaker_01
So I'll give an example. 80% of us, studies show, wake up to our phones first thing in the morning. So we see our phones before we see our partners and our kids, and we see our phones lasting at night after we see our partners and our kids.

00:18:02 Speaker_01
And so our phone gets more FaceTime than the people we love. And when I think about that, I think to myself, when you wake up to the phone in the morning, you wake up to notifications, negativity, news, and noise.

00:18:18 Speaker_01
And these four things make you feel like you're starting your day at the bottom of a ladder, and now you're spending the day catching up to yourself.

00:18:26 Speaker_01
Whereas if your day started with four key habits of thankfulness, inspiration, meditational mindfulness, and exercise, you're now starting your day at a plus four, and now even if the rest of the day is challenging, you still end up at a plus two or a plus one.

00:18:41 Speaker_01
And so I like to set myself up by saying, what are the habits that I can practice today that are going to make me feel like my day is going in the right direction? And they are truly simple. Thankfulness takes 30 seconds.

00:18:53 Speaker_01
Here's the best way to practice it. I don't recommend a gratitude journal. I don't recommend writing it down. I recommend expressing it. making it specific and personalizing it.

00:19:04 Speaker_01
Send a text, send a voice note, send an email, send a message to someone that you're grateful to for the next seven days. Send them a message and make it really specific. Don't just say, thank you, GP, for this wonderful event. Not good enough.

00:19:18 Speaker_01
Say thank you for the amazing decor. Thank you for the incredible experience. Thank you for what this felt like, looked like, what it smelled like. Share the depth of how that experience was for you.

00:19:30 Speaker_01
If you do that, gratitude actually has the ability to boost your immune system. It has the ability to shift your perspective and boost your mood.

00:19:38 Speaker_01
But if you do it in a way of, I'm grateful for the air, I'm grateful for my kids, I'm grateful for my job, that doesn't have that impact and effect. Because it stays with you. Because it stays within you. And gratitude is meant to be shared.

00:19:51 Speaker_01
It's a gift that you get to give someone else. Inspiration is a big one for me. At one point in my life, I remember listening to, apart from the monks, but listening to Steve Jobs' Stanford commencement speech every day for nine months in a row.

00:20:07 Speaker_01
And not only did I know the words off by heart, it really changed my heart by listening to that speech every day. The words in it are so profound and so powerful that you start to rewire the neurons in your mind.

00:20:18 Speaker_01
Like, it's genuinely changing the makeup of your mind. I recently sat down with Matthew McConaughey on my podcast. And I said to him that I listen to his Oscars acceptance speech every day. It's a five-minute speech. It will only take five minutes.

00:20:34 Speaker_01
I said I listen to it every day for 30 days in a row. And that rewires how your mind works. Now, you don't have to listen to the people I'm recommending.

00:20:42 Speaker_01
But whoever it is that you're drawn to in your life, I promise you, if you listen to the same thing every single day because you like it that much, it will start to rewire how you think. It's as simple as that.

00:20:54 Speaker_01
And then meditation and exercise, of course, which I can go into, but those four habits for me are like my staple, my main course, and everything else is sides and dessert.

00:21:05 Speaker_03
All right, all right, all right. How do you meditate? Do you still meditate for 45 minutes in the morning and the night?

00:21:15 Speaker_01
Two hours now. It's been two hours for 16 years.

00:21:18 Speaker_03
Two hours? I thought it was 45 minutes.

00:21:20 Speaker_01
It's been two hours for 16 years, Saira.

00:21:30 Speaker_03
So I find meditation... elusive and I do it every morning and I do TM and like this morning I had the worst meditation and I was like counting I wanted to open my eyes and check the timer

00:21:50 Speaker_03
And some mornings I go really deep and it's like the most beautiful experience.

00:21:59 Speaker_03
So why does that happen and what can I do to, I don't know, it sounds stupid, like improve the quality of my meditation, but I don't know if you guys ever, if you meditate and you have those days where, I mean, my meditation teacher said to me, even in a shallow dive, you get wet, so still do it.

00:22:20 Speaker_03
But I was just wondering, do you have these euphoric, deep meditations every day for two hours?

00:22:27 Speaker_01
I love that. How many people in the room meditate regularly? How many people don't meditate? And how many people don't put up their hands, no matter what I say? Thank you for being honest. I appreciate the honesty.

00:22:42 Speaker_01
I started my two-hour meditation practice when I was 18 years old. I'm 34 today, so it's been 16 years that I've been meditating for two hours a day. That form has taken many different formats. It could be two hours in the morning straight.

00:22:54 Speaker_01
It could be an hour and an hour. four blocks of half an hour each, depending on what day it is, especially now with my busy schedule, it changes all the time.

00:23:03 Speaker_03
And how did you land on two hours?

00:23:05 Speaker_01
I landed on two hours because as a monk in my tradition, that amount of time was allotted to anyone who wanted to be a teacher.

00:23:14 Speaker_01
So for the integrity of my teaching and my practice and the coaching work I do, that's a basic commitment I've made to my teachers as how much I need to do.

00:23:22 Speaker_01
And so it's purely based on my relationship with my meditation teacher who has trusted me with the ability to teach meditation. And so it's like this big responsibility that I have to keep up with, but it's beautiful. It's really fulfilling.

00:23:37 Speaker_01
And so like you, I have meditations where I feel like I need to check my phone. Still? Still.

00:23:45 Speaker_03
To this day?

00:23:46 Speaker_01
Till this day. Till this day. Till this day. And so the beauty again, so I have had euphoric, deep, immersive experiences through meditation that have proved to me that meditation works.

00:24:03 Speaker_01
That have helped me have a glimpse into the deepest experiences that meditation can take you to. But I don't want to talk about those because they don't help anyone.

00:24:13 Speaker_01
But what does help is this idea of knowing that what we're actually doing when you're having that shallow dive, when you're turning up regardless, you're training your mind to be where you are, you're training your mind to do uncomfortable things.

00:24:30 Speaker_01
You're training your mind to not just freely do whatever it feels like in that moment. It's back to the free will. It's back to the free will. You are showing yourself that even if it's difficult, I can sit with this discomfort.

00:24:45 Speaker_01
Even if I don't sit with the discomfort perfectly, I have sat with the discomfort.

00:24:51 Speaker_01
And that sitting with discomfort is setting you up for success in so many other areas of your life, rather than the desire of like, I don't like this, let me get out of here. And so I find that meditation's experience is not meant to be

00:25:06 Speaker_01
a euphoric, ecstatic experience every time, it's actually meant to just give you a signal and an alert as to how you feel today. So if you feel distracted today, meditation is just showing you that today you're going to be more distracted.

00:25:22 Speaker_01
Maybe don't make any big decisions. Use it as a signal.

00:25:25 Speaker_03
Oh, that's interesting.

00:25:26 Speaker_01
Yeah, if I meditate and I fall asleep, like I did this afternoon, right?

00:25:32 Speaker_01
That's my body telling me hey because you were still today you needed more sleep so meditation is Aligning your body and mind so that they can actually do what they want to do and if the answer is distraction Let me not make good big decisions today.

00:25:50 Speaker_01
Let me not take seriously today. Maybe how I feel about someone I Maybe let me not say something that I don't mean today, because actually my mind's distracted.

00:26:00 Speaker_03
Yeah, you can use it as a litmus test.

00:26:02 Speaker_01
Exactly. I see meditation as that, especially in the beginning. That's so interesting.

00:26:06 Speaker_03
Right.

00:26:06 Speaker_01
It's like a diagnostic tool.

00:26:08 Speaker_03
Right. And so if someone wants to start meditation, how do you suggest that they do it? Are there certain apps or certain books one should read?

00:26:19 Speaker_01
Yeah. So there are three types of meditation. that I was trained in but that I see across the world today. There's breathwork. There's visualization, and there's mantra. So TM, of course, is mantra. Visualization, I'm sure you've heard of.

00:26:32 Speaker_01
But visualization is actually even performed by Formula One racers, athletes who visualize. And then you have breathwork, of course, which, again, I feel is quite widely spread today. And that was the order in which we were trained in it.

00:26:44 Speaker_01
So breathwork helped to calm and still the body. Visualization helped to focus the mind. And then mantra helped to really heal the heart and soul. So it was this ascending process.

00:26:55 Speaker_01
And so I found that starting with breathwork is a great foundation because it sets you up physically and then moving to visualization and then to a mantra as an ascending process. And so I know there's countless apps out there.

00:27:10 Speaker_01
I recommend whichever one truly works for you. I don't have a prescribed app because I do think meditation is so personal. But I would definitely start with the breath. and then experiment with visualization and mantra as well.

00:27:23 Speaker_01
And the power of mantra is phenomenal because hearing the sound, even if whispered, we all know that sound transports us. We can hear a song that we grew up to and you're transported back. You can hear a sound that you don't like.

00:27:39 Speaker_01
And you're already feeling emotions that you don't like. And so the power of sacred sound or spiritual sound is to transport you. And so mantra is my chosen form of meditation too.

00:27:52 Speaker_01
And it's, in my opinion, the most powerful for those deep experiences within. But I feel breathwork and visualization are the launch pad for that type of meditation.

00:28:03 Speaker_03
You said that you fell asleep during your meditation today, and it just reminded me that, so the theme of this has been dreams, you know, sort of following your dreams.

00:28:12 Speaker_03
And I was wondering, in your coaching practice, so when somebody comes to you, you know, I had a session earlier where this beautiful young woman said she's having a difficult time because she's in a job that she doesn't love and doesn't feel like it's her calling, but she feels scared.

00:28:30 Speaker_03
to dare to dream about what that even would be or kind of give herself the permission to do that. So in your coaching practice, what would you say to her? And what would you say in terms of finding that, like, is that manifestation?

00:28:48 Speaker_03
Is that like, how do you start to connect with those ideas of who you could be in your next iteration?

00:28:54 Speaker_01
Yeah, so I can relate to that. I just, Just over five years ago, I was in a job just like that. Because when I came back from being a monk, I had to pay the bills. I had to pay off my student loan.

00:29:08 Speaker_01
I couldn't rely on my parents, who I moved in with when I first came back. But they weren't financially capable, of course, to take care of me for the rest of my life.

00:29:16 Speaker_01
And I already moved back in when I was 26 years old after living as a monk for three years. And so for me, I was in that position just over five years ago. So I know exactly what that feels like.

00:29:28 Speaker_01
And what I'd say to that is the first step is learning to appreciate where you are. Because if we can't appreciate where we are, we will never appreciate where we get to. And that is just the truth for anyone and everyone.

00:29:49 Speaker_01
Someone could say, well, I'm running a great business, but only when I exit will I really feel happy. Or someone may say, I'm building this brand, but only when we work with this partner will I feel satisfied.

00:30:06 Speaker_01
And I feel that we're constantly, in any scenario, postponing our feeling of joy and success and happiness. And so for me, when I was in this corporate job, my goal was, how can I appreciate where I am?

00:30:21 Speaker_01
And the only way to appreciate where you are is asking yourself, what can I learn here that might be useful for later?

00:30:29 Speaker_01
And if I look back, and I honestly ask myself, so many of the skills that I learned in that job over five years ago are huge parts of my business, my ventures, my work today, that if I didn't have that experience, I'd actually be really bad at what I do today, and I wouldn't have the skills that I do.

00:30:46 Speaker_01
So I think there is an honoring of where we are, because something in your life has brought you there. And I often say to people, like, you're exactly where you need to be.

00:30:55 Speaker_01
And we're scared of accepting that because we're like, well, I don't like being here, but that's because we don't see it as part of our story. So focus on what can I learn in this job? Maybe it's networking. Maybe it's sales.

00:31:07 Speaker_01
Maybe it's connecting with different people from different backgrounds. Maybe my company is launching a program to Learn about crypto, right? I'm going to dive into that. Whatever it may be as you as an individual, what are you drawn to?

00:31:21 Speaker_01
Try and take a moment to learn and therefore appreciate where you are. The second step I'd say when it comes to dreaming is I really believe we dream through people. I think we dream through people.

00:31:33 Speaker_01
And what I mean by that is that there's a beautiful statement by Marian Edelman who said that you can't be what you can't see.

00:31:41 Speaker_01
And I love that so much because if you don't see something happen, if you don't experience it, you will never want to become it or follow it. So if I never met a monk, I would never have dreamed of becoming a monk.

00:31:55 Speaker_01
That would never even crossed my path. And what I find so fascinating, this is why I love what you do, and I honor it so much in all the amazing programming you've created, what you've done with Goop,

00:32:07 Speaker_01
the incredible work that you've done with the shows that you've created because you're introducing us to people and ideas that are taboo, untalked about. And the point of that is, it's incredible.

00:32:23 Speaker_01
We live in a world where you can access anything at any time, yet we all follow the same people, watch the same people, and pretty much talk about the same people in shows and things. It's incredible, right?

00:32:34 Speaker_01
It blows my mind that in a world where we could literally access a random tribe in the middle of another country if we really wanted to, through the powers, we're all watching Squid Games, right?

00:32:47 Speaker_01
And no offense to Squid Games, there's nothing wrong with it. The point I'm making is that we all get very... we all get just enamored by the same things.

00:32:57 Speaker_01
And when I look at the most amazing experience I've had in my life, it's when I've become enamored by something that's different and unique and has been more random.

00:33:08 Speaker_01
And so I feel that there's a need to explore and expose ourself to people and experiences that you don't just come across every day. And of course, that's what your work's doing. It's why I have my podcast, because I can sit down with people

00:33:23 Speaker_01
And even if they're people that you know, I'm hoping that we can go deeper with them or go to a place that you haven't seen. And if it's people you don't know, well, that's fresh anyway.

00:33:33 Speaker_01
And so I feel like exposing ourselves to more people allows us to dream through people. You see someone and you think, oh, I love what they're doing. I love what they're about. I love what they're channeling. I love what their vision is.

00:33:45 Speaker_01
And then your mind opens up to what's possible. And then the third part of it truly is that I've seen the most powerful dreams be linked to service and impact. And so I find that a dream is incomplete without service and impact.

00:34:03 Speaker_01
The biggest and the best dreamers in the world, the people that shift the trajectory of the world, were not doing it just for themselves. They were doing it for others.

00:34:13 Speaker_01
And so when your dream expands into having a service element, you get the opportunity to work harder than you've ever dreamed of. You're able to learn things that you never believed you could because we're so phenomenal at extending ourselves

00:34:29 Speaker_01
beyond what we know for people that we love and people we want to serve. So I'd say that that step process, to me, it's very different from manifestation. I think manifestation, we often think of it as, well, let me see where I want to be.

00:34:46 Speaker_01
And I think of manifestation as visualize what it's going to take to get there. So if someone wants to be something, don't visualize what it looks like. to be on that stage or be on the front cover of that magazine or whatever it may be.

00:35:02 Speaker_01
Visualize the hidden journey, which is the behind the scenes of waking up at 4 a.m., of doing the work, of learning the skill, of practicing the art.

00:35:12 Speaker_01
Use your manifestation to visualize yourself breaking your physical and mental limits, not in visualizing the destination.

00:35:27 Speaker_03
And then if that's kind of at the base, how do you or when do you decide, no, now it's time for me to jump? It's time for me to take the risk. It's time for me to leave this relationship. How do you know when you're there?

00:35:49 Speaker_01
Yeah. I often think that With careers at least, we'll talk about relationships, but with careers at least, there is a need to build two lanes at the same time.

00:36:01 Speaker_01
And so I rarely recommend to anyone in my practice or in my life to make a leap or a jump, because I feel that not only is the risk high,

00:36:11 Speaker_01
The failure rate is high and the fall is really painful, and to recover from that can take a lot of energy and effort.

00:36:18 Speaker_01
And so the pain and stress of managing a day job and doing something in the evenings at the same time sounds stressful, but it's a healthier route to make that transition.

00:36:29 Speaker_01
And the day you make the switch, at least in careers to start off with, is the day that you feel you've created enough momentum in this new space where it can now push you and carry you forward.

00:36:40 Speaker_01
If you make that switch too early, you can actually do a disservice to yourself where now you feel like you're still playing catch-up. And so I often ask people, build something that's at least half of where you're at right now financially,

00:36:55 Speaker_01
so that you can make that leap over. And I've had plenty of clients who've done that, who I've been working with a client for the last five years.

00:37:03 Speaker_01
And within two and a half years was when he decided to quit his job in law to move over to the work he's in now. And he's already within two and a half years, he'd made 50% of what he made as a lawyer.

00:37:15 Speaker_01
And then the next two and a half years, this year he has the opportunity to replace that completely. So I always feel that the financial part is the hardest part, and so I feel like if you've replaced 50%, that's a healthy time.

00:37:27 Speaker_01
With relationships, the time to leave is really when you feel you're no longer growing. You know, when you feel that you're not growing, when you feel like you're not becoming the best version of yourself, when you feel like you're not

00:37:42 Speaker_01
moving in the direction you want to be moving in, not because the other person's helping you move or not. You just feel that you're carrying so much negative or toxic energy that you feel stuck. That's when you need to shift and make a move.

00:37:56 Speaker_01
And so that's a much more emotional transition. It's a much more difficult and painful transition. And so it should not be, again, done in a rush. I don't believe in fast, big jump decisions. I don't think that that's what works best.

00:38:12 Speaker_01
Usually as humans, we do better with incremental small changes than we do with these big, huge decisions. And anyone who you notice has made a big decision in their life, I promise you, they sat there and thought about it for 365 days.

00:38:26 Speaker_01
Right you make a decision in a day.

00:38:29 Speaker_01
That's what it looks like but really that decision was made over 365 days and so allow yourself that grace in space to slowly Develop your reasoning for that big decision over time and then make that decision don't feel rushed or forced to make it faster develop the relationship with yourself as your

00:38:53 Speaker_01
I mean, that's the heart of it. I promise you the relationship you have with yourself will always be the best relationship you could ever have in the world. I really mean that.

00:39:03 Speaker_01
It is such a joy to be present with yourself and to fall more in love with yourself. And the truth is that no one will ever love you the way you want to be loved, apart from yourself, because no one else can know you that intimately.

00:39:23 Speaker_01
And even if you try and articulate to someone who you are and what you're like and what you love and what you need,

00:39:31 Speaker_01
They're coming with so much of their own background and baggage and their own challenges and pain and likes and dislikes that it's really hard to translate that.

00:39:41 Speaker_01
So I'm not saying it's not possible to have meaningful relationships, it's just harder to expect that from anyone else. And actually that gives you more grace for them too.

00:39:50 Speaker_01
It helps you receive more of them and you see it as a addition and extension to the love you have for yourself. So glad you added that.

00:39:59 Speaker_03
Jay, thank you so much. It's always such a pleasure. Thanks for listening to my conversation with Jay Shetty. I hope you'll pick up a copy of his book, Think Like a Monk, and tune into his podcast, On Purpose.

00:40:16 Speaker_03
This has been a presentation of Cadence 13 Studios. I hope you'll listen, follow, rate, and review all of our episodes, which are available for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you get your podcasts.