Is the Garden of Eden on a Mountain? AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast BibleProject

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Episode: Is the Garden of Eden on a Mountain?

Author: BibleProject Podcast
Duration: 00:58:50

Episode Shownotes

The Mountain E3 — The biblical authors portray Eden as a cosmic mountain—an overlapping Heaven and Earth space in God’s presence. Humans are placed on the Eden mountain and given a choice: Will they trust God’s voice and wisdom, or will they seize the knowledge of good and bad on

their own terms? In this episode, Jon and Tim discuss the drama that plays out on the first cosmic mountain and how it becomes the pattern for every future mountaintop story in the Bible.View more resources on our website →Timestamps Chapter 1: Recap of What We’ve Learned So Far (0:00-12:33)Chapter 2: The Cosmic Eden Mountain (12:33-33:27)Chapter 3: The First Humans Fail the Mountain Test (33:27-58:50)Referenced ResourcesThe Tabernacle Pre-Figured: Cosmic Mountain Ideology in Genesis and Exodus by L.M. Morales (Link to PDF, since book is not available for sale)The Symbolism of the Biblical World: Ancient Near Eastern Iconography and the Book of Psalms by Othmar KeelCheck out Tim’s library here.You can experience our entire library of resources in the BibleProject app, available for Android and iOS.Show Music“Dreamscape Lagoon” by Enzalla“Rain or Shine” by Birocratic & Middle SchoolBibleProject theme song by TENTS Show CreditsProduction of today's episode is by Lindsey Ponder, producer, and Cooper Peltz, managing producer. Tyler Bailey is our supervising engineer. Aaron Olsen edited today’s episode and also provided the sound design and mix. JB Witty does our show notes, and Hannah Woo provides the annotations for our app. Our host and creative director is Jon Collins, and our lead scholar is Tim Mackie.Powered and distributed by Simplecast.

Summary

In this episode of the BibleProject Podcast, titled 'Is the Garden of Eden on a Mountain?', hosts Jon Collins and Tim Mackie explore the portrayal of Eden as a cosmic mountain where Heaven and Earth intersect, emphasizing the significance of divine wisdom over independent knowledge. They discuss key themes such as the choice of the first humans in trusting God’s guidance versus seeking knowledge autonomously, and how this narrative sets a foundational pattern for the depiction of mountains in biblical texts. Additionally, the episode underscores the relationship between the creation story and humanity's role within divine space.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Is the Garden of Eden on a Mountain?) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:04 Speaker_02
Close your eyes and think of the entirety of the land that you live on. Do you picture an entire continent? Maybe you picture the shape of every continent wrapped around a ball floating through space.

00:00:16 Speaker_02
Now ask an ancient person to think of the entirety of the land that we live on, and they might picture something a lot simpler, but also a lot more profound. They'll picture a cosmic mountain, bordered by the chaotic sea.

00:00:29 Speaker_02
And they picture themselves living on the flanks of this cosmic mountain. But at the top, where the peak slices into the sky, that's where the human and divine come together.

00:00:40 Speaker_03
In the ancient Near East, the union of heaven and earth was conceived of as a mountain, whose base was at the bottom of the earth, and whose peak was the top of heaven.

00:00:50 Speaker_03
The cosmic mountain was the meeting place of the gods, which provide the waters of life that flow out into the world.

00:00:57 Speaker_02
Today we look at how biblical authors pick up this common ancient conception and depict the garden in Eden as the top of a cosmic mountain. From this garden a stream flows down, it breaks into four rivers, and it waters the entire land.

00:01:13 Speaker_02
Now, the story in Genesis doesn't explicitly state that the garden in Eden was on top of a mountain. But there are these clues, and the prophet Ezekiel just comes out and says it. He calls Eden the mountain of God.

00:01:26 Speaker_03
They're not hiding it. These four rivers that go out to the nations of the world all come from one place, namely the river, singular, in Eden.

00:01:36 Speaker_02
God places humans to live on top of this mountain and he gives them access to the source of eternal life and wants to prepare them for how to stream out into the world.

00:01:47 Speaker_03
It's about the way that humans become wise. It's about the way that we learn good and bad. To be on that cosmic mountain with open hands in a posture of openness, surrender, and trust.

00:02:00 Speaker_02
Today we talk about the garden in Eden as the cosmic mountain. Thanks for joining us. Here we go. Hey, Tim.

00:02:14 Speaker_03
Hey, John.

00:02:14 Speaker_02
Hello. We are ascending some mountains.

00:02:18 Speaker_03
Let us ascend the cosmic mountain.

00:02:21 Speaker_02
Yeah. Yeah. Sounds dangerous. It does. Yeah. Yeah. The story of the Bible takes place largely in hill country.

00:02:30 Speaker_03
Yeah. The main part of the drama that is the stories of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the stories of Joshua, The Judges, Samuel, Kings, Israel's story in the land means essentially in a spine of hilly mountain country.

00:02:51 Speaker_03
Jerusalem is among those hills and all its neighboring towns when Israel's kingdom split into north and south. Up in the north, Samaria and all of its towns, all in hill country. All hills, all in hills. It's a really lush, fertile area.

00:03:06 Speaker_03
It still is today.

00:03:07 Speaker_02
In Hebrew language, it's the word har. Yes, or plural, harim. Harim. Yeah. It can mean what we would call high hill and it can mean mountain.

00:03:17 Speaker_03
Yeah. Anything from a couple hundred meters up to thousands of meters.

00:03:23 Speaker_02
Yeah. Those are the mountains. There's also this idea of the cosmic mountain. Yes.

00:03:29 Speaker_03
Yeah.

00:03:29 Speaker_02
Which in Israel's neighboring mythologies and the stories they told about the creation of everything was that out of this, what, primordial chaotic abyss. Out of the, yeah, the chaos waters. Chaos waters. Came the land. Dry land.

00:03:45 Speaker_02
And you can imagine this mountain rising up out of the waters.

00:03:49 Speaker_03
Yes. A primordial hill. rising up out of the waters. And this was a trope, not the only way that Egyptians or Mesopotamians told stories or imagined creation, but it is one dominant way, a dominant strand in these cultures, thought and literature.

00:04:06 Speaker_02
And so intuitively, then the high place, kind of the peak of the land, it's connected to the sky in what the ancients would think of God's domain. And we talked about how it doesn't feel like our domain at the top of these big mountains.

00:04:20 Speaker_03
Yes. Yeah.

00:04:20 Speaker_03
The tallest ones, which, you know, we mentioned in previous episodes, way to the north, even for the Canaanites, way to the north would be, I think what today is called Yevel Akra, which is, I mean, a big thousands of foot tall mountain rising right up off the coast of the upper Eastern Mediterranean.

00:04:39 Speaker_03
Within eyesight for Israelites, the tallest point north would have been Mount Hermon and Mount Tabor. These are really tall places in the northern region.

00:04:51 Speaker_03
And on the top of them, you know, it's often where the tree line stops before you get to the top. And so it's just rock. If there's plants, it's real low-lying, shrubs, bushes, rocks.

00:05:03 Speaker_03
Maybe there's a spring on the way up to the top, often, but often not. And so they're just desolate places that are dangerous. The weather's up there, lightning. tends to attract, right? Be attracted to the tops of those areas.

00:05:18 Speaker_03
And so because mountains are where the land is closest to the skies, shrines would often be built on top of mountains or high places. In the biblical story, there's called the high places.

00:05:30 Speaker_03
It's a way of the Israelites referred to Canaanite shrines on top of tall hills. But then also what we tracked was how temples themselves, the earliest forms of temples that we have in human civilization down in Egypt,

00:05:43 Speaker_03
over in Mesopotamia, the early pyramids or the ziggurats, were themselves symbolic cosmic mountains. They were a symbol of where the earth meets heaven, which speaks to a conception of reality. Right?

00:06:00 Speaker_03
If you're designing a symbolic mountain where you go ascend to the top to meet with the gods, that tells you something about how these people thought of the cosmos as a whole. And these are the pyramids and the ziggurats. Yeah.

00:06:13 Speaker_03
I'll just summarize all this with a quote. If anybody's interested, Hebrew Bible scholar who's done a lot of work here about how this cultural background really illuminates key themes in the Hebrew Bibles, a scholar named Michael Morales.

00:06:27 Speaker_03
It's actually, I think it's his dissertation published called The Tabernacle Prefigured. cosmic mountain ideology in Genesis and Exodus. It's a page-turner. It's a fantastic book. He puts it this way.

00:06:40 Speaker_03
He says, in the ancient Near East, the union of heaven and earth was conceived of as a mountain whose base was at the bottom of the earth. and whose peak was the top of heaven, making it the axis mundi, using a Latin phrase.

00:06:58 Speaker_03
So mundi is the world, axis mundi, like the axle, the central point, the axis point on which the world meets the heaven, or here, the center of the world. So the cosmic mountain was the meeting place of the gods.

00:07:14 Speaker_03
It was the source of water and fertility, meeting place of heaven and earth. The cosmic mountain motif appears in the literature and religious rituals of Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Hittites, Canaanites, and also ancient Israel. And he goes on.

00:07:31 Speaker_03
Ancient Near Eastern temples then were the architectural embodiment of the cosmic mountain. So you are taking the concept of that mountain and turning it into a... built symbol, namely the temple.

00:07:48 Speaker_03
Pyramids and ziggurats were architectonic representations of the archetype of the cosmic mountain.

00:07:55 Speaker_02
We can't go to the mountain, let's build our own little version that could transport us there in some real way.

00:08:02 Speaker_03
Yes, that's right, which then he goes on, this is why they are often decorated with portrayals of cosmic waters and or fertile trees. Connection between temples and cosmic mountains is related

00:08:14 Speaker_03
to their function as links between heaven and earth, portals, as attested by the name of Babylonian temples, mountain of the house, house of the mountain of all lands, or even the word bavil, or bavil, means gate of the gods.

00:08:29 Speaker_03
So the ziggurat was literally and symbolically a cosmic mountain.

00:08:33 Speaker_02
At one point in our last conversation,

00:08:36 Speaker_02
I felt like he spilled beans a little bit in a really helpful way, which was, look, if you think of Sinai as the cosmic mountain in the exodus narrative, exodus Leviticus numbers, and it feels like a cosmic mountain. I mean, right?

00:08:48 Speaker_02
Only Noah goes, only Moses goes up. That was so good. That was good. That was good. Biblical, Freudian, unintentional. Because Noah goes to him. Noah also has a mountain. Yeah, he rises up to it. Yeah, he does. and there he meets God in some cosmic way.

00:09:06 Speaker_02
But then what you said was God gives him the blueprints for the tabernacle.

00:09:11 Speaker_03
The heavenly temple, that's right.

00:09:12 Speaker_02
And so while we can't go up to the mountain, it's like now the mountain comes down to us in this remarkable way. And to frame the tabernacle that way was so interesting. And that got just my imagination going.

00:09:26 Speaker_03
Yes, yes. So the innovation of the biblical authors is not just to say that there are such things as cosmic mountains. That was a shared belief. But the drama of Israel's story is that the God that their ancestors encountered on different mountains

00:09:46 Speaker_03
Whether, as we'll see in this conversation, the Eden Mount, or the mountain where Abraham encountered God, or where Moses encountered God, they're all encountering and experiencing the same thing. but on different mountains.

00:09:58 Speaker_02
On different mountains, yeah. So the biblical story doesn't say, okay, here's this one mountain, and that's always the cosmic mountain. Yeah. It does get to Jerusalem on Mount Zion, which becomes then this- Yeah, a particular cosmic mountain.

00:10:11 Speaker_02
A particular one that sticks in a way.

00:10:14 Speaker_03
Yeah, it does kind of stick, but also there's the tabernacle, which becomes a portable cosmic mountain, but that can be down in a valley. It can be down on a level plain.

00:10:24 Speaker_04
Yeah.

00:10:24 Speaker_03
The cosmic mountain comes to take up residence basically anywhere with the form of the tent. And that's what Michael Morales' book is about. It's about how cosmic mountain symbolism became located in Israel's tent, which could go anywhere.

00:10:42 Speaker_03
And of course, that paves the way for cosmic mountain imagery that Jesus will go on to apply to himself.

00:10:49 Speaker_02
So in this series, we're going to walk through all the different mountains that become cosmic mountains in the story of the Bible. Yeah.

00:10:56 Speaker_03
Or at least many of them.

00:10:58 Speaker_02
We're going to do all of them.

00:11:00 Speaker_03
Let's do them all. Okay. Many of them. Well, because what the biblical authors want to say is that actually any place can become an environment where you have a cosmic mountain experience, whether you're on a mountain or not.

00:11:14 Speaker_03
That's because in a way, all of creation is a cosmic mountain. So that's where we're going. But to clear the playing field, we need to begin at the beginning with a narrative that we've looked at so many times.

00:11:29 Speaker_03
And I think it might even be that every detail I want to highlight in what follows, we've talked about before in some way over the years. But I'm trying to pull it together in a unique constellation, point out how the biblical authors

00:11:44 Speaker_03
Not that implicitly, but implicitly portray the Garden of Eden as on top of a cosmic mountain. It's the first cosmic mountain in the Bible. Yep, that's right. Garden of Eden. It's the template.

00:11:53 Speaker_03
It sets the pattern of expectations for the reader for every other cosmic mountain situation you're gonna meet in the following story. So, the cosmic Eden mountain is where we gotta begin. Okay.

00:12:34 Speaker_03
So, the biblical story begins with two narratives, two literary units that are concerned with beginnings of the worlds we know it.

00:12:43 Speaker_03
The first is the seven-day creation narrative, I guess which will just highlight one element right now, which is that on day three of the six days of God's working,

00:12:53 Speaker_03
God speaks to the waters, telling them to split apart so that the dry land can become visible and emerge up out of it. And here we then are clearly in the cosmic mountain motif.

00:13:04 Speaker_03
An Egyptian would be able to read the seven-day creation narrative and have a sense of familiarity of what's going on. Same with the ancient Babylonian.

00:13:14 Speaker_03
So the dry land emerges and then out of it comes all the green life stuff and the foods and fruit trees and plants and so on. So that's the conception there. And then the seven-day narrative is doing a bunch of other stuff and we don't have time.

00:13:28 Speaker_03
It's not relevant fully for what we're talking about now. The second narrative that's just put right alongside the seven-day narrative is the Garden of Eden story, which begins in Genesis chapter 2 verse 4. And the Eden story begins like this.

00:13:43 Speaker_03
These are the birthings of the skies and the land when they were created. That's a new translation, the birthings. The birthings, yeah. The word toledot. These are the generations. It's often translated, these are the generations, yeah.

00:13:57 Speaker_03
It's literally the word giving's birth. Oh, is it? Birthings. The birthings. Yep, yeah. As a noun, it's usually put in front of genealogies, Elter and Genesis, except here. Okay. No genealogy here. No genealogy here, just narrative.

00:14:13 Speaker_03
Because there's no one to trace. Yeah, totally. This is the ultimate genealogy, the cosmic genealogy. In the day of Yahweh Elohim making the land and the skies, well, Any shrub of the field was not yet in the land.

00:14:27 Speaker_03
And any plant of the field was not yet sprouted. And for Yahweh Elohim had not sent rain on the land. And a human was not there to work the ground. And so it's pause. So we just isolated a whole bunch of knots.

00:14:43 Speaker_03
no shrub of the field, that is just wild, uncultivated growth, and no plants of the field, that is like what human beings would, yeah, gardening. So there's no wild vegetation, no farms.

00:15:01 Speaker_03
And there's no water, so no plants, no water, and no human, in that order. However, a stream would come up out of the land and water the whole face of the ground.

00:15:17 Speaker_03
There's three no's, and God actually is going to address every one of those in the sentences to follow. And the first issue to deal with is no water. So a little stream popped up out of the ground. And the association of cosmic mountains with rivers

00:15:33 Speaker_03
flowing out from them the water of the rest of the land is the key motif. Actually, Morales just hinted at that in the quote that we read earlier.

00:15:41 Speaker_02
And here it is, the stream that's coming out of the land. Now, nowhere has it said we're on a mountain. Nope, nope. It's just the land.

00:15:49 Speaker_03
It's just the land. The land, yep. And Yahweh Elohim formed the human of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and the human became a living being. And Yahweh Elohim planted a garden in delight. That is, in Eden.

00:16:10 Speaker_03
It means delight. It's a transliteration, Eden. Eden is a transliteration. Yeah, that's right. It's a Hebrew word spelled in English letters. If we translated it, it would mean delight. And he placed there the human whom he had formed.

00:16:28 Speaker_03
So first of all, there was no water, deal with the water. Second was there's no human to work the ground. Formed a human. Formed a human. And the other problem was there were no plants. He planted a garden. Yeah, totally.

00:16:40 Speaker_03
So now we have water, human, and plants. But what's interesting is that the planting of the garden is narrated after the forming of the human. So just imagine you're making a human out of the wet. Molding it.

00:16:54 Speaker_02
Yeah, molding.

00:16:54 Speaker_03
Yeah, it's the word used like pottery, like what a potter does with clay. So molding a human from the material of the wet ground. It's wet now because there's water.

00:17:03 Speaker_03
And then also there's water in the ground that creates the conditions for plants to be able to come up. So Yahweh plants a garden and there he placed the human who he had formed. So the idea is

00:17:15 Speaker_03
There's a human formed, then Yahweh plants a garden, but if God has to put the human into the garden, what it means is that the garden wasn't like made around the human that he just formed.

00:17:28 Speaker_03
So it's like there's a human, then over here I'm going to put the garden, it's toward the east, and then God's going to take that human, who's outside, formed outside the garden, put them in the garden. That's the little picture right here.

00:17:41 Speaker_02
Yeah, it's an interesting detail. I guess it's meaningful. Feels like an oversight. It's like, oops, I made the garden over here, human over here. I'll just move the human.

00:17:52 Speaker_03
Yeah, unless it's an invitation to meditate on, because this garden is going to become the place where humans have proximity to a source of infinite life.

00:18:02 Speaker_03
And dust in the Hebrew Bible, when it's talking about humans, it's primarily talking about humans as frail, weak, and mortal coming from the dust and returning to it.

00:18:14 Speaker_03
So I think it's this contrast between the material, frail origins of the human creature We come from the dust, return to the dust. But God making available, but outside the human, apart from the human. Something other than the human.

00:18:29 Speaker_03
So immediately, it's this idea of being invited into something. Yes. The origins of the human are down at the base of the mountain. But up at the top of the mountain, there's this source. Now it doesn't say that. Nope. Specifically.

00:18:42 Speaker_02
You just gotta wait for it. All right. Okay. The up and down.

00:18:45 Speaker_03
It does inside, in and out. It uses inside and out. That's good. Actually, that's important. Okay. For here, it's outside versus in. Okay. Once God plants the garden, you realize, oh, the human's outside it and then gets placed inside it.

00:18:57 Speaker_03
So the movement is from outside to the inside. The garden isn't a place native to the human.

00:19:04 Speaker_02
Yeah. It's a place the human is invited into.

00:19:07 Speaker_03
Invited into something that wouldn't just emerge up out of the ground by itself.

00:19:14 Speaker_02
Yeah. It wasn't the place the human was formed. Right. That seems significant.

00:19:18 Speaker_03
Yes. The human was put into the garden after it was made. There in the garden. Not with the human there.

00:19:26 Speaker_03
Yahweh Elohim caused to sprout from the ground every tree that was desirable to see and good for eating and the tree of life also in the middle of the garden and the tree of knowing good and bad. Lots of trees. Lots of trees.

00:19:44 Speaker_03
So every tree is beautiful. It's not like there's all these beautiful trees and then there's one like spooky haunted looking tree.

00:19:53 Speaker_02
Yeah, that classic kids book, the Bears and Bears ones. Have you read that one? Oh, no. Oh, really? Probably, but it's been a while.

00:20:01 Speaker_02
They go into this haunted tree and then they go down this slide and there's this bear in there and there's trap doors and there's all these things you have to get through.

00:20:11 Speaker_03
But wait, they're bears. Yeah, but it's like, oh yeah, that's true.

00:20:15 Speaker_02
But there's like a... It's like a wild bear.

00:20:16 Speaker_03
Like a wild, yeah. Because they're like human-like bears. Yes, right. That's funny. Yeah, so yeah, not that. Yeah, the image is more, it's just every tree is beautiful. Every tree looks like it's good for eating.

00:20:29 Speaker_03
And there's a tree that connects you to the source of God's own eternal life, tree of life. And there's the tree of knowing good and bad, whose significance is yet to be developed. Okay, we've painted the scene right there. Now,

00:20:43 Speaker_03
A river went out from Eden to water the garden, and then from there it separated and became four heads.

00:20:53 Speaker_03
And then you're told about these four rivers, and the first one's called Gasher, and it goes down to the land of Havilah, which is only mentioned in one of the story in the Hebrew Bible, and it's on the way to Egypt. So it's going south.

00:21:08 Speaker_03
The name of the second river is also Gusher. A synonym? Synonym, yeah, but in Hebrew, Geoch. And it goes around the whole land of Cush. Gusher and Rusher? Yeah, oh, Rusher and Gusher. Pishon and Kichon, yeah.

00:21:23 Speaker_03
The third river is the Tigris, which still exists today. It goes east of Assyria. And then the fourth river is the Euphrates, which the narrator doesn't say, because he doesn't have to, because it goes through Babylon.

00:21:38 Speaker_03
So we've got the main world empires that are gonna be- You made a map. We just made a map.

00:21:44 Speaker_04
Yeah.

00:21:45 Speaker_03
Yeah, going south, east, and Gihon is interesting because the land of Kush could identify a couple different regions, but Kushites are either also down south or maybe a little southeast, connected to the land of Edom or Midian, perhaps.

00:22:04 Speaker_03
What's interesting is Gihon, that's Gusher, Oh, I don't know which is which. Pishon is Russia. Pishon is Russia. That's the first one. Yeah. Yeah. That's on the way to Egypt.

00:22:13 Speaker_02
Russia.

00:22:13 Speaker_03
Yeah. And the Gihon, the only time a water source elsewhere in the Hebrew Bible is called Gihon, is the spring that feeds Jerusalem. The Gihon.

00:22:25 Speaker_03
So these four rivers that go out to the nations of the world all come from one place, namely the river, singular, in Eden. So this must be a pretty high place. There you go. If it's watering all the nations of the world. That's right.

00:22:42 Speaker_03
So in our minds, that doesn't seem like a very loud detail to point out that Eden is at the high place. One, just stop and consider it. Water flows down. Yes, it's the most intuitive thing you can imagine. Water flows downhill.

00:22:58 Speaker_03
Now we live in a city that's divided east and west sides by a river. And if you're standing at it, you don't look up river and feel like, oh, I'm looking up a steep hill. It looks flat. So that's how many rivers are.

00:23:12 Speaker_03
But there are many other rivers where it's very clear. Yeah, it's coming down the foothills. But all water is going downhill. It's just the way it works.

00:23:22 Speaker_03
So that's actually a pretty strong implicit statement being made about Eden as the highest place, if it's the source.

00:23:31 Speaker_02
Now, for us, it's like all these clues. For an ancient, reading these stories, it feels like, right, like, okay, so the land emerged out of the sea. Okay, you're talking about Cosmic Mountain.

00:23:42 Speaker_03
Exactly.

00:23:43 Speaker_02
Oh, there's a garden that God's planting. With water flowing out of it. Water flowing out of it. Like, it just would be a no-brainer. Exactly right. They're not hiding this detail.

00:23:52 Speaker_03
They're not hiding it. They're actually, there's a whole paragraph to talk about the river. The whole story with the humans just stopped. And it's going to pick up. The human story and the trees, it all just goes on pause at verse 9.

00:24:07 Speaker_03
Verses 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 are just about these rivers. The river and the rivers. And then it's only in verse 15 that you go back to the human and the trees again. So the narrator's drawing focused attention on how a river flows out of Eden.

00:24:23 Speaker_02
And that makes sense from the cosmic mountain perspective, that there's a place where all of life flows from. This is the epicenter. Yeah, that's right.

00:24:32 Speaker_03
So, a wonderfully helpful book for me that I encountered many years ago is by a German scholar, Othmar Kehl, spelled like keel, K-E-E-L. He has this great book called The Symbolism of the Biblical World.

00:24:46 Speaker_03
And he has drawn together a collection of almost comprehensive ancient Near Eastern art and iconography from Egypt, from ancient Canaan, from the Hittites, and from Mesopotamia culture, along with quotations of those cultures' literatures describing their view of the world, and then quotations from biblical literature.

00:25:08 Speaker_03
And it's really helpful. It's a way of orienting yourself to how the ancient Eastern people saw the world. And so much of it feels like biblical thought.

00:25:18 Speaker_03
So he has whole sections on conceptions of mountains, conceptions of rivers, conceptions of water, conceptions of the ocean. So he has a great section here on mountains. And so, for example, I'm showing you a picture of a Assyrian deity.

00:25:34 Speaker_03
I forget what the name is, but the deity is depicted as sitting on top of a mountain. That's what this thing is. Yeah, it's almost like his bottom half of him is a mountain. Yeah, that's right. And then there's a torso of a deity on top of a mountain.

00:25:48 Speaker_03
Yeah. And then there's four rivers. Oh, that's what those are. Coming out of a little, like, water basin. Oh, coming out of his... Holding a water basin.

00:25:57 Speaker_02
Oh, it's a water basin. Yeah. I thought it was coming out of his chest.

00:25:59 Speaker_03
Oh, yeah. Maybe it's a little broken part of the painting. But there's four of four. Because the four points of the compass. So here, this is interesting, this is a wall painting from the ancient Near Eastern city of Mari, and it's a temple.

00:26:19 Speaker_03
And it's flanked by cherubim figures here, like multi-form animal hybrid creatures. Here on the lower floor of the temple, there's two deities. Each of them is holding a water pot. And out of each of them is flowing, again, four rivers.

00:26:37 Speaker_03
So it's like a double four. So it's the conception of a temple out of which is flowing... Four rivers flowing out of something is a very clear... It's a fixed motif.

00:26:50 Speaker_03
And again, remember temples are symbolic representations of the world mountain, the axis mundi, the center of the world. So it shows a conception that there is an ultimate high place on the dry ground.

00:27:06 Speaker_03
from which the gods provide the waters of life that flow out into the world. So this is the set of concepts being drawn on by the author of the Eden story. And we know that ancient readers recognized it.

00:27:21 Speaker_03
And we know that later biblical authors recognized it too. So for example, the prophet Ezekiel in Ezekiel chapter 28 describes Eden. He just calls it Eden, the garden of God, the holy mountain of God. This is the proof text. It's the smoking gun.

00:27:40 Speaker_03
Ezekiel calls it a mountain. Ezekiel calls it a mountain. In the book of Joel, he describes Zion as a holy mountain, and he likens it. He says it's like the Garden of Eden, before it gets attacked by a locust plague.

00:27:57 Speaker_03
When Isaiah, chapter 51, when the prophet looks forward to the renewal of Mount Zion, He says he's going to make the deserts of Zion like Eden, and her wastelands like the garden of the Lord.

00:28:13 Speaker_03
So Zion is referring particularly to the highest kind of hill of the city of Jerusalem, and it's like an ear to Eden and to the garden.

00:28:23 Speaker_03
So later biblical authors saw these details in the Eden story, and it seemed pretty clear to them that Eden was a cosmic mountain. So there's more significance here because what I want to focus on is the human drama on top of the mountain.

00:28:40 Speaker_02
Why is Eden, what's the phrase, it's planted toward the east? Oh yeah. I mean, that's not important. Well, here's the question. I know the question. Yeah. Did the biblical authors care about where Eden was? Oh, I see.

00:28:54 Speaker_02
And did, or any other kind of literature around the time was there? conjecture about, like, what mountain this was?

00:29:02 Speaker_03
I mean, because all these other mountains are gonna be named. No, that's an excellent question. So that little phrase, Yahweh planted a garden in Eden toward the east. NIV is in the east, ESV in the east. Yeah, there we go, in the east.

00:29:15 Speaker_02
NASB, towards the east. Oh, okay, NASB did toward the east. Toward the east, yeah. Okay, there it is.

00:29:21 Speaker_03
So this Hebrew phrase, meketim, has two possible meanings, and likely both of them are

00:29:28 Speaker_03
So, the word Kedem means, if you're facing the east, and the Hebrew points of the compass are built off of assuming that somebody's standing with their back to the west looking east. So their east is the north? Their east is... Our north, in a way?

00:29:46 Speaker_03
No, no, their east is north.

00:29:49 Speaker_02
East. Well, their east is east, but I'm saying our compass, our orientation is north.

00:29:54 Speaker_03
Oh, I understand. Right? Yes. Yes. Their orientation was east as the main point, the sunrise.

00:30:00 Speaker_02
Yeah. Okay.

00:30:01 Speaker_03
That makes sense. I mean, for a pretty intuitive reason. Yeah. And there's like, to the west is just the chaotic sea, to the east is where all the nations are.

00:30:07 Speaker_03
If you're in the land of Israel, Palestine, this east, your west, and the sunrise is to the east. So north, one of the words for north is just left. And one of the words for south is right. And then the word for east is in front of.

00:30:25 Speaker_03
And the word for west is behind. So this is that word before or in front of. In front of or before you. Yep, mekedim, before you. So mekedim can mean directionally, in front of you, that is to the spatial east. But it also is used of time.

00:30:44 Speaker_03
what was in time before you. And so meketim is essentially a way of referring to the past, the time before. So the phrase could be,

00:30:56 Speaker_03
interpreted Yahweh planted a garden, Mechedim, in the most ancient time as an equivalent to in the beginning of the seven day narrative. All right. That makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense.

00:31:07 Speaker_03
Or it could be geographically in the Eastern regions because the Eastern regions where the sun rises from. That's where the mountains are. Is where the mountains are from an Israelite point of view.

00:31:17 Speaker_03
And also just that mysterious place where the sun is the source of life.

00:31:22 Speaker_02
Comes from.

00:31:23 Speaker_03
And so it's like how we think of the end of the rainbow. I'd say we're the pot of gold. I mean, I've walked in that direction towards the end of a rainbow and you never meet it. You never find it, yeah. But what if you could? It's gotta be a pot of gold.

00:31:35 Speaker_03
Where's the sun coming from? What would it be like to be at the place where the sun meets the earth when it rises? It's gotta be like some place of- Some cosmic place? Cosmic, infinite life place.

00:31:46 Speaker_03
And for an Israelite, if you're looking east from the land of Abraham, you're looking at the hills. So you don't find within the Bible any interest at all with the literal map location of Eden.

00:32:00 Speaker_03
It seems to have been a kind of place that can actually be encountered at many places on the land, which is where we're going to go.

00:32:09 Speaker_02
That's great. Now when they're banished, they're banished East. That's right. So that's, what's confusing to me. Okay. It's towards the East. Then they get banished East. Yeah. And all this takes place where in an area I would call West. Yeah, sure.

00:32:22 Speaker_02
Like all the stories. The biblical story. The biblical story.

00:32:23 Speaker_03
Yeah, that's right. Yep. So I don't know. Yeah.

00:32:26 Speaker_02
Does that need to make sense to me?

00:32:27 Speaker_03
There's a long heritage of people trying to locate where Eden was on an ancient conception of the map and then orient the biblical stories around it. And it's virtually impossible to do.

00:32:38 Speaker_03
Because it doesn't seem like these details are in the text to help you find it. Like Makedim, I think it's time reference. is probably one of the main primary references.

00:32:52 Speaker_03
But there is going to be this important, the garden is toward the east, the humans are exiled to the east, Cain goes to the east, and then the Babylonians go further east. And they are east, yeah. So that's all east. Yeah, that's right.

00:33:27 Speaker_03
Yahweh Elohim took the human and rested him in the Garden of Eden. You're like, that already happened.

00:33:35 Speaker_02
Oh yeah, it did already happen.

00:33:37 Speaker_03
That's because verse 15 is restating the last narrative action about the humans from verse 7. And it's a part of the literary design. You call it a resumptive repetition. We're coming back to that moment.

00:33:51 Speaker_03
We're replaying it and then showing what happened next. And as we replay it, it's worded in a different way, because up above it was the verb sim, to place, to set, whereas here it's the verb noach. Yeah, it's Noah's name as a verb.

00:34:06 Speaker_03
He rested him in the Garden of Eden. To le'ovda'ul shomra, to work it and to keep it. It literally could mean to work the ground and tend to the garden.

00:34:20 Speaker_03
But these are the same verbs used to describe what the Levites and priests do in the temple, which is itself a symbolic mountain garden. So all of a sudden we've got Yahweh and humans just chilling together. On the cosmic mountaintop.

00:34:37 Speaker_03
And it's where the gods communicate the divine will and wisdom and hear the command. The cosmic mountain is where humans meet and hear the will of the gods.

00:34:48 Speaker_02
This is where they get their mission. Yeah. This is where they get their... That's right.

00:34:53 Speaker_03
And the idea is if it's happening up there, it's meant to spread and go downhill from there. In a good sense. Go downhill in a good sense. So this would feel very at home for an ancient reader. That God and the human are in the same place, talking.

00:35:09 Speaker_03
And where the human hears the Word of God, and the Word of God is this. From every tree of the garden you will eat. Eats repeated two times for emphasis. So the first command is eat up. Just enjoy. Repeating the word means. Like really get to it.

00:35:27 Speaker_03
It's muchly eat. Yeah, eat much. all these trees. Look at this, it's just there. What a gift from the gods. Like the water just came up out of the ground and then these trees. What a gift.

00:35:40 Speaker_02
Yeah.

00:35:40 Speaker_03
Welcome to the party. Welcome to the party. God is the generous host. Here, just saying, I've just spread the table for you. Eat. That's the first command. Yeah. Good command. Enjoy. Second command. However,

00:35:56 Speaker_03
From the tree of knowing good and bad, you will not eat from it. For in the day that you eat from it, you will die. So eat, that is what brings life. And then the opposite, but there's one tree. Now I was told all the trees are beautiful.

00:36:12 Speaker_03
All will look desirable to eat from. And in fact, every tree you should eat, well, there's that one. That one, though it looks beautiful, it'll kill you. You're gonna die if you eat it. So this sets up the drama.

00:36:28 Speaker_03
So on top of the cosmic mountain, the human is at home. Like God has made the human at home. It's not the human's native realm. The native realm is outside. He was placed there. In the wilderness, where there's no life, in the dust.

00:36:41 Speaker_03
That's where the human's origins come from.

00:36:43 Speaker_02
But this is like a cultivated garden.

00:36:45 Speaker_03
Yes, cultivated by God. And there, the material realm becomes the vehicle of something above and beyond it, namely God's own life, somehow up at the top.

00:37:00 Speaker_03
All the trees you eat and give you life, but then there's, we're told, the tree of life, which is not focused on here.

00:37:06 Speaker_02
No. We learned about it earlier?

00:37:08 Speaker_03
We learned about it earlier, up in verse 9. The tree of life is there, and we're going to learn later, it brings infinite, unending life. And now there's one tree that will bring the ending of life, that is death. It doesn't say why. No. No.

00:37:24 Speaker_03
It's a riddle. It's the first riddle in the Bible. Yeah. Welcome to meditation literature. Yeah, yeah. It's a puzzle put there on purpose. It's unclear and you haven't been given all the information you need to understand the riddle yet.

00:37:37 Speaker_03
You gotta keep reading. It should be an irritant in the first reading and the second. And it is for most people. It is like a detail that sticks out and bothers many readers. So what is a new insight? This is for me within the last like six months or so.

00:37:54 Speaker_03
That's what I love about the Bible. A new insight was in telling the humans not to eat from this one tree, by calling it knowing good and bad, it makes it seem like there's something God is withholding from you.

00:38:10 Speaker_02
Yeah.

00:38:11 Speaker_03
Knowing good from bad is a good thing. Throughout the rest of the Bible, it's a very good thing to know good from bad.

00:38:17 Speaker_02
Yeah, because if you know good from bad, you can choose the good. Yes, exactly. Well, hopefully.

00:38:24 Speaker_03
Yeah, knowing good, knowing what is the good doesn't mean that we choose it, but at least we know it.

00:38:29 Speaker_02
But at least you know it. And then we didn't talk about this in this conversation, but God creates humans as his image to rule the world. So we need to know how to do this.

00:38:39 Speaker_03
That's right. And even to work the ground and to keep it will involve decisions about, well, What's a good way to do that? What's a good way to do that? What's a not good way to do that?

00:38:49 Speaker_02
Pretty much doing anything. So why are you withholding from me the key thing that I need to do the thing you want me to do, which is work and keep the garden, rules to do the earth. You want me to do it without knowing good from bad?

00:39:03 Speaker_02
And here's a tree that'll give it to me?

00:39:05 Speaker_03
So you and I grew up in a world where in our childhood was released the first Karate Kid movie. And I'll never forget it because it's the first story I remember

00:39:18 Speaker_03
that was about the same thing, of this riddle, which is there's something you need for this kid, Ralph Macchio. I don't even remember the character's name, but the actor's name, Ralph Macchio.

00:39:29 Speaker_03
Right, he's this puny little kid who can't defend himself from the bullies in his world. And so he finds out that there's like the karate master, like lives in his neighborhood. And so he goes to the karate master,

00:39:45 Speaker_03
to learn how to defend himself against bullies. Do you remember this? The first thing that he's told to do is get a bucket of paint and a paintbrush and go paint the fence.

00:39:58 Speaker_03
And then after he's finished that, go get a bunch of car wax and like a buffer, go wax all the cars. And so it sets up this tension where he's like, you're not teaching me the thing that I need to do the thing.

00:40:12 Speaker_02
I want to learn karate. You're having me do chores. Yeah.

00:40:15 Speaker_03
So it's not a precise analogy because there it's like what Mr. Miyagi is telling him to do things that you're just like, what's the relation? Like, what does this have to do with what I'm here for?

00:40:27 Speaker_02
There's even a suspicion of this. You're just doing this to get me to like make your house nice.

00:40:31 Speaker_03
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Do work for you. Whereas here in the garden, it seems like God is telling me to do the opposite thing of the thing that I need.

00:40:40 Speaker_03
So it would be like Mr. Miyagi telling the kid, like, go stand in front of the bullies and let them beat you up. It's the exact opposite of the thing that I'm trying to accomplish.

00:40:48 Speaker_02
I need to know good from bad. You're withholding it from me.

00:40:50 Speaker_03
But it's still a good analogy.

00:40:52 Speaker_02
You have to admit. So it feels like God's withholding. And it felt like Mr. Miyagi's withholding. I want to learn karate. You're not teaching me karate. You're withholding from me. Yeah, the thing that I'm here for.

00:41:02 Speaker_02
But there's the moment where Daniel-san, that's his name, he's really frustrated and he finally is like, why won't you teach? And then he's like, It shows him that he has taught him karate. And he goes, all right, let's go.

00:41:17 Speaker_02
And then he like strikes him and he goes, paint the fence. And then it becomes a defensive mood. Black's car. Now he's like blocking the kicks. And so all of a sudden he realized, oh, I was being taught karate. I just didn't know it.

00:41:30 Speaker_03
I just didn't know it. So it seems to me the first step in solving the riddle is to see that God, Yahweh Elohim, is teaching the human how to know good from bad, in the very act of saying, don't eat from the tree of knowing good and bad.

00:41:47 Speaker_03
Because implicitly what God's communicating is, you need me to tell you what is good and what is not good for you. It's the word and the wisdom and the command of God that will impart knowing of good and bad, not relying on what the eyes see.

00:42:05 Speaker_03
Because remember what we know about those trees.

00:42:07 Speaker_02
Everything looks good.

00:42:08 Speaker_03
Every tree is desirable to see and good to eat. So it's going to appeal to the senses. And the first lesson is don't trust your eyes. Listen to my voice. And your physical appetites can lead you into distorted perceptions of what is good from bad.

00:42:29 Speaker_03
But the paint the fence is listen to my voice. Listen to my voice. Listen to what I say.

00:42:34 Speaker_02
I will tell you what is good and bad. So if Adam and Eve were like, okay, this doesn't make sense, but I'm going to listen to the voice. Exactly. God saying, that's, you're learning it.

00:42:42 Speaker_03
Yes. You're learning it. Okay. So here's the twist.

00:42:45 Speaker_03
It was very common for Egyptians, Babylonians, when they did the cosmic mountain concept, when they painted it, when they did a temple liturgy, it's a place where a priest can go up there and meet the gods and hear from them, hear the commands of the gods.

00:42:59 Speaker_03
But what the biblical authors want to do is take that motif, In a very counterintuitive way, humans are the image of God and they are made to rule and be responsible for the world.

00:43:11 Speaker_03
But the way that humans are going to become truly wise partners with God is by not depending on what feel to us like some of our basic intuitions about what is good and bad. We need a wisdom that is above and beyond our own.

00:43:29 Speaker_03
that will govern and guide what our eyes see and what our stomachs want and what our bodies think they need. This is the introduction of what will become the plot conflict of the entire biblical story.

00:43:44 Speaker_02
The drama is happening on a cosmic mountain. Where humans are placed, that's good, is on the cosmic mountain in communion with God, where they're going to learn to listen to God's voice. And then through that, begin to know good from bad.

00:43:58 Speaker_02
Not by taking it from some tree. And that all has happening on a cosmic mountain. Yeah. That's right. Yep. So that they could then subdue the earth and rule it. I mean, they're not going to just hang out on this mountain forever.

00:44:09 Speaker_03
Yeah.

00:44:09 Speaker_02
Right. Totally.

00:44:10 Speaker_03
Yeah. Fill the land. Subdue it. Turn the land into the mountain. And the water, in fact, is already going out to fund all the resources of Egypt.

00:44:22 Speaker_03
The river goes to Egypt, which, you know, in Egyptian, the Nile, which is, the Nile is a divine deity, right? An Egyptian belief. And so this story is just saying, yeah, that's from Yahweh. It's not a god, but it is a gift of God.

00:44:35 Speaker_03
And it's from Yahweh, the God who chose Israel. And His cosmic mountain. Yeah, His cosmic mountain. So, of course, we'll just summarize here. God divides the human from one into two so that those two can become one and make more of themselves.

00:44:49 Speaker_03
That's what happens next. Then there's a snake that deceives the humans into listening to the voice of the snake and taking from the tree because the snake deceives them saying, you can't trust God's voice. Yes.

00:45:03 Speaker_03
The snake says, did God really say don't eat from any of the trees? And the woman says, that's not what God said. But it does lead to the question of, but wait a minute, there is one tree, right? There is one tree that's in the middle of the garden.

00:45:16 Speaker_03
God said, don't eat of it, for you will die. And then the snake just says, no, you won't die. You can't trust God. Yeah, you can't trust God. He's holding out on you. Genesis 3, verse 6 and 7.

00:45:27 Speaker_03
The woman saw that the tree was good for eating, which it's true. God made it that way. And that it was desirable to the eyes. And we know that all the trees are. And that the tree was desirable to make one wise.

00:45:41 Speaker_02
Yeah, that's the point of it.

00:45:43 Speaker_03
It teaches you good from bad. Now we have two sources of wisdom. We have Yahweh's voice. There's a way of wisdom that leads to life. And there is a way of wisdom that will lead to the opposite of life. And she took from its fruit and she ate.

00:45:59 Speaker_03
She also gave to her husband with her and he ate. And the eyes, to which the tree was desirable, the eyes of the both of them, were opened and they knew that they were Arum, naked. Arum, Arum.

00:46:14 Speaker_03
And this is the act that leads them to become then exiled from the garden where they die. Their eyes are opened. Is that an idiom? Is that a Hebrew idiom? For understanding. Oh, for understanding.

00:46:25 Speaker_02
So in some real way, this was like, okay, now I have an understanding of the world I didn't have before.

00:46:30 Speaker_03
Yeah. There is a sense of agency that's realized here. Like, whoa, I can act on my own apart from God.

00:46:39 Speaker_02
But then also in doing that, it's like they entered a realm of like, oh, okay, now I know the world more good from bad. They've gotten a schema.

00:46:48 Speaker_03
They've uploaded a schema that's like... Yeah, I mean, so the fan fiction, right, move would be to say, okay, what if they hadn't done this?

00:46:58 Speaker_03
What would it be like for them to learn good and bad by just continuing to go on walks with God and listen to God's voice?

00:47:04 Speaker_02
Yeah. Their eyes would have been opened as well.

00:47:07 Speaker_03
Yeah, but in a different way.

00:47:08 Speaker_02
In a way that would have been from God's gift. Which would have truly made them wise and lead to life.

00:47:14 Speaker_03
That's right. Now their eyes are opened. because they're learning good from bad by having made a really stupid decision that's going to lead to their own ruin. Yeah. There's two ways towards wisdom. There's two ways to open your eyes. That's right. Yeah.

00:47:27 Speaker_03
Yeah. That's good. Yeah. So what God then says, God says a number of things. He comes asking questions and then they just continue to hide themselves and what they've done.

00:47:39 Speaker_03
Then God laments over the consequences that they've brought upon themselves and he laments for the snake, the woman and the man. Then God says to God's own crew, the human has become like one of us, knowers of good and bad.

00:47:56 Speaker_03
so that they don't send out their hand and take from the tree of life and live forever. God exiled them to the east.

00:48:04 Speaker_02
But now again, the point is they would become like him, knowing good from bad. Yeah. But it's how they did it. It's how. And the fact that now they have the schema, this paradigm of what good and bad is that's distorted. That's the problem.

00:48:18 Speaker_03
Yeah. So it's about the way that humans become wise. It's about the way that we learn good and bad. The way that God invited the human to do was to be on that cosmic mountain with open hands, in a posture of openness, surrender, and trust.

00:48:36 Speaker_03
And trust that God will give me the wisdom that I need to discern good from bad.

00:48:41 Speaker_02
And I guess you can get a picture of that of like, oh, God just wants dependency, but It's back to the karate kid thing. Mr. Miyagi teaches him how to defend himself. He teaches him what he needs to know.

00:48:52 Speaker_02
I get this sense from this idea of being the image of God and ruling on his behalf. God wants to give agency and power and maturity to the humans, but it's a process.

00:49:04 Speaker_03
that needs to happen. Oh, so good. Yeah. In other words, what the process does is it keeps inviting the human, and this is fan fiction, imagining like the Adam and Eve have gone for many walks, lived many years, trusting God's voice.

00:49:18 Speaker_03
But every time God says something that's counterintuitive like this, it brings you to a point of openness again to say, well, I trust that the creator of all loves me, is generous, has my best in mind. I just, I don't understand.

00:49:36 Speaker_03
why he's telling me to do this this way. But in so doing, you're becoming wise. Because once you go through that experience, you'll have learned from it and you'll be like, oh my gosh, when I listen to the wisdom of God, I find life.

00:49:49 Speaker_02
And enough times where the counterintuitive thing ends up being the thing that brings life, you start to go, I'm getting it. I'm getting it. I'm getting it. That's right. I'm getting it. But it takes training.

00:49:59 Speaker_03
But it takes training. It's painting the fence and it's whacking the car. Right, once you go through that, then you're like, oh man, any time- People listening have not seen Karate Kid. So confused.

00:50:09 Speaker_03
But it's like, after having that experience, then you'll begin to trust. The teacher would be like, okay, you know, you're telling me to do a pretty crazy thing here, but we've done this so many times. So there's a contrast here.

00:50:21 Speaker_03
How will I learn wisdom and openness of surrender, trust that God will give me what I need to know and what I need in the time that I need to know it. Or the contrast is prematurely, before I'm ready for it.

00:50:37 Speaker_03
I want to take what I think I need in my own way, in my own time. And so this image of receiving versus taking This image of seeing what's good in your eyes and doing and taking versus that openness, listening to the voice. These are the contrasts.

00:50:57 Speaker_03
And so what's going to happen throughout the rest of the biblical story is after human and living one, Adam and Eve, have made this choice, the rest of the biblical story, all the generations to come, will be replaying versions of this moment in the story.

00:51:12 Speaker_03
But not on the cosmic mountain. Ah, they're just going to happen all over the place. But there are many times where both the Adam and Eve story is getting replayed, say in the life of Abraham, and the biblical authors will actually locate it.

00:51:27 Speaker_03
on a hilltop, or they'll use all the language of the cosmic mountain, even if it's happening inside a building.

00:51:34 Speaker_03
So it's a way of recalling this cosmic mountain moment and saying the human drama is carried forward by moments that are like being on top of a mountain.

00:51:45 Speaker_02
So on the mountain is the choice, the test. How am I going to become wise? You encounter that test on mountains.

00:51:54 Speaker_03
Yeah, let's go back to our last couple conversations then. There's something about being on top of a really high hill, or a mountain, if you've had the experience. The mountaintop experience.

00:52:04 Speaker_03
Where you're like, this is my realm, it's the land, but it's also not my realm. And there's a sense in which you leave behind what's familiar. And you have to surrender yourself to this place and this environment and what you're going to meet there.

00:52:21 Speaker_03
Like climbing mountains is a way of opening yourself up to the other, to the transcendent. And you can't bring stuff up there with you from your creature comforts, right? You're entering this other realm.

00:52:36 Speaker_03
And often the very powerful experiences to be on top of the mountains, transformative. And so there's something about that that's being described here in the story where Adam and Eve came from outside the garden, right?

00:52:51 Speaker_03
Human was put into the garden on this high mountain garden. and had an opportunity to be transformed and matured.

00:52:59 Speaker_02
You know, it's so interesting. That's what people mean by mountaintop experience. They mean that moment of enlightenment. That moment where things become clear and you're like, oh, that happened because of that happened.

00:53:12 Speaker_02
And oh, this is why, this is what I could have done. This is, everything's connecting and there's a sense of wisdom. being downloaded. That's right. We call it a mountaintop experience.

00:53:24 Speaker_03
Yeah, maybe because you're up, you can see far, which can be a metaphor for all of a sudden you can see the meaning of your life coming together with the way that's hard to do down in the valley.

00:53:38 Speaker_02
It's about gaining clarity and vision and wisdom. And that's what God wants to give humans on the cross for man.

00:53:45 Speaker_03
Yeah. So there's something wonderful about the setting of a mountain

00:53:49 Speaker_03
as a place for these moments of choice of whether I will trust and listen in a way that brings life, or whether I'll try to carry up all my stuff from down below up onto the mountain. Because, in other words, I want to have the mountain

00:54:06 Speaker_03
encounter, but on my terms and make it familiar, assimilate it to how I see the world. Or will I leave it all behind and just go up there and encounter. Go naked up the mountain. Yeah. Whoa. Well, you might get chilly up there. Well, evidently not.

00:54:21 Speaker_03
I mean, they were chilling up there fine. That's true. Yeah. It's a warmer part of the world over there. Yeah. So there's something about the actual like ecosystem of mountain tops, high hills,

00:54:33 Speaker_03
that makes it a wonderful metaphor for encounters with the transcendent that force you to reckon with your life and make choices there that become these pivotal moments. And that's how the Eden moment's portrayed.

00:54:52 Speaker_03
And it's just in a remarkable way, we could encounter many mountain stories as we go on. But as we go on, I wanna explore how there's like some key moments in the story of Abraham.

00:55:03 Speaker_03
in the story of Moses, in the story of Elijah, that all are packed with the language of the Eden story, and they all link to each other with hyperlinks in a way that carry the biblical drama forward.

00:55:17 Speaker_03
And in that way, we're meant to see ourselves in this moment at Eden as readers, and also to see our own dramas in the stories of Abraham and Moses and Elijah.

00:55:29 Speaker_03
And I think that'll set us up then to understand why the Psalms talk the way that they do about the cosmic mountain. Because it's hard to tell in the Psalms or the Prophets when Jerusalem gets brought up. It's hard to tell.

00:55:43 Speaker_03
Are they talking about Jerusalem? Are they talking about heaven? Are they talking about the Garden of Eden? Or maybe they're actually talking about all of them. But it all starts with the Cosmic Eaton Mountain. So next to Abraham?

00:55:57 Speaker_03
We're not going to do Noah? Oh, Noah. Yes, with Mount Ararat. Yeah, we probably should. Well, we probably should talk about Noah. All right, we'll figure it out. But anyway, for now, there's more than enough to think about with the Cosmic Eaton Mountain.

00:56:16 Speaker_02
Thanks for listening to this episode of Bible Project Podcast. Next week, we'll look at the next two mountains in Genesis. Noah on Mount Ararat and Abraham on Mount Moriah.

00:56:26 Speaker_02
In these stories, we learn what it takes for a human to get back on the mountain to be with God.

00:56:31 Speaker_03
When God sees a human up on the high mountain, surrendering and giving back to God what God has given in the first place, it brings blessings.

00:56:42 Speaker_02
Bible Project is a crowdfunded nonprofit. We exist to experience the Bible as a unified story that leads to Jesus. And everything that we make is free because it's already been paid for by thousands of people just like you.

00:56:54 Speaker_02
Thank you so much for being a part of this with us.

00:56:57 Speaker_01
Hi, this is John Vick, and I'm from Claremore, Oklahoma.

00:57:01 Speaker_00
I'm Andy, and I'm from Apamotiri in Aotearoa, New Zealand. I first heard about the Bible Project when I was looking for some Advent resources on YouTube, and I kept going from there.

00:57:11 Speaker_01
I first heard about Bible Project from a friend. My favorite thing about Bible Project is how they take these beautiful, fascinating themes in the scriptures, and they teach them in a way that is so accessible to the church today.

00:57:25 Speaker_00
My favorite thing about The Bible Project is the podcast. I love that behind all the videos there is a thoughtful, deep dive into every topic. We believe the Bible is a unified story that leads to Jesus.

00:57:35 Speaker_01
We are a crowdfunded project by people like me. Find free videos, articles, podcasts, classes and more on the Bible Project app and at BibleProject.com.

00:57:49 Speaker_03
Hey everybody, this is Tim, and I'm, I suppose, one of the chief Bible nerds in the podcast. And I hope you've been enjoying the series on the mountain.

00:57:59 Speaker_03
Every one of the stories and poems about the mountain in this series has become very dear, personal for me as a way to think about the moments of testing and challenge that God is leading me through in my own life.

00:58:14 Speaker_03
And so I really hope that it's helpful for you. There is a whole team that brings this podcast to life to be released every week.

00:58:23 Speaker_03
You can see the full list of everybody involved by checking out the show credits that's in the episode description wherever you stream the podcast or you can find it on our website. Thanks a lot for listening and we'll see you next time.