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Episode: How Can You Give Better Gifts? (Replay)

Author: Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher
Duration: 00:38:06

Episode Shownotes

How many bottles of wine are regifted? What’s wrong with giving cash? And should Angela give her husband a subscription to the Sausage of the Month Club? SOURCES:Joel Waldfogel, professor of strategic management & entrepreneurship at the University of Minnesota. RESOURCES:“How to Become a Truly Excellent Gift Giver,” by Eliza

Brooke (Vox, 2022).“How to Calculate a Holiday Tip for the Doorman,” by Ronda Kaysen (The New York Times, 2022).“Least Favorite Gifts to Receive for Christmas in the United States in 2022, by Generation,” (Statista, 2022).“(Not) Giving the Same Old Song and Dance: Givers’ Misguided Concerns About Thoughtfulness and Boringness Keep Them From Repeating Gifts,” by Julian Givi (Journal of Business Research, 2020).“Does Anyone Really Buy the Giant Car Bows You See in Every Commercial?” by Aditi Shrikant (Vox, 2018).“It’s the Motive That Counts: Perceived Sacrifice Motives and Gratitude in Romantic Relationships,” by Mariko L. Visserman, Francesca Righetti, Emily A. Impett, Dacher Keltner, and Paul A. M. Van Lange (Emotion, 2018).“Why Certain Gifts Are Great to Give but Not to Get: A Framework for Understanding Errors in Gift Giving,” by Jeff Galak, Julian Givi, and Elanor F. Williams (Current Directions in Psychological Science, 2016).“The Girl Who Gets Gifts From Birds,” by Katy Sewall (B.B.C. News, 2015).“The Disappointing Gift: Dispositional and Situational Moderators of Emotional Expressions,” by Renée M. Tobin and William G. Graziano (Journal of Experimental Child Psychology, 2011).Scroogenomics: Why You Shouldn’t Buy Presents for the Holidays, by Joel Waldfogel (2009).“The Deadweight Loss of Christmas,” by Joel Waldfogel (The American Economic Review, 1993).United States Postal Service Employee Tipping and Gift-Receiving Policy. EXTRAS:“Have a Very Homo Economicus Christmas,” by Freakonomics Radio (2012).

Summary

In this episode, Angela Duckworth and Stephen Dubner explore the complexities of gift-giving, addressing a listener's dilemma about shopping for a difficult recipient. They discuss psychological insights on how gift-givers often overlook long-term appreciation in favor of immediate reactions. Anecdotes illustrate the common issue of mismatched gifts, and economist Joel Waldfogel's concept of 'deadweight loss' is introduced, highlighting the discrepancy between a gift's cost and its perceived value. Cultural norms around cash and the use of gift cards are examined, as well as the emotional impact of thoughtful gifts, emphasizing the importance of empathy and personal connection in enhancing relationships through meaningful presents.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (How Can You Give Better Gifts? (Replay)) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:03 Speaker_02
Hi, NSQ listeners. If you've been following us for a while, you know that Stephen Dubner used to co-host the show.

00:00:10 Speaker_02
Since the holiday season is right around the corner, we thought you might enjoy this classic episode in which he and Angela discuss gift giving. On Saturday, we'll be back with a brand new episode featuring Mike and Angela.

00:00:25 Speaker_00
I've always wanted a one-eyed doll.

00:00:28 Speaker_03
I'm Angela Duckworth.

00:00:29 Speaker_00
I'm Stephen Dubner. And you're listening to No Stupid Questions.

00:00:34 Speaker_02
I love getting wine so that I can then give it to someone else.

00:00:37 Speaker_00
How many bottles of wine are re-gifted? I think it's got to be over 100%. Angela, a question today from one Juliana Bonner, who writes to say that she is a senior economics major at Lehigh University.

00:01:05 Speaker_03
Which is close to my hometown here, Philadelphia, that is.

00:01:08 Speaker_00
She writes that her dad, whose name is Neil Bonner, is who, quote, got me into your podcast. She writes that her dad has undergraduate and master's degrees in economics. He also has an MBA and he now works for Nielsen.

00:01:22 Speaker_00
She writes, he inspired me to read all the Freakonomics books, and he was the reason I wanted to major in economics. But then she says, don't worry, Angela, I am also minoring in psychology.

00:01:32 Speaker_03
I get the silver medal.

00:01:33 Speaker_00
Juliana continues, my dad and I FaceTime every other week to talk about your show, and it is one of the things I look forward to the most. Unfortunately, so that was all great news up till there.

00:01:43 Speaker_00
But now, unfortunately, he might be the hardest person to shop for during the holidays. She says, I've gotten him Freakonomics books the last three years, poor fella. And vice versa, poor Juliana.

00:01:56 Speaker_00
And that is about the only thing he has actually enjoyed. And now, she says, I am at a complete loss. I'm reaching out to you to see if, one, you have any suggestions for economists.

00:02:08 Speaker_00
And two, could you do a segment about why gift-giving can be so difficult for some people? So Angela, let's start with Julian's second question. Why can gift-giving be so difficult for some people? Do you have any opening thoughts?

00:02:22 Speaker_03
You know, I have thoughts both on a kind of personal basis, because I would not categorize myself as a world class gift giver, but also professionally as somebody who has looked at the literature a little bit, partly because I am such a terrible gift giver and I'm looking for research that would help me be better.

00:02:41 Speaker_00
Wait, you looked at the research because you're a terrible gift giver or because you are a nerd?

00:02:46 Speaker_03
Probably both, but I'll just say that, you know, whereas some people Google the answers to their life problems, I always Google scholar.

00:02:53 Speaker_03
It's a little more efficient for me, may not be for most, but there have been research studies, also theoretical papers on this human tradition, right? I think we are the only species that gives and receives gifts.

00:03:06 Speaker_00
Oh, come on, that can't be so.

00:03:08 Speaker_03
Well, what is a gift, right? That's the question. Well, you tell me. I think that the definition of a gift, I'm sure there's research on that, which I haven't looked at. But in terms of the psychology of it, I think a gift is not simply a transaction.

00:03:23 Speaker_03
So if you go and take your car to Jiffy Lube and you pay your bill, we would not consider that a gift. But why not? You gave value to another person. The reason, I think, is that, at least implicitly, what a gift is, is like an unnecessary payment.

00:03:39 Speaker_03
It might be expected, but it's optional, and it's not in exchange for some other thing that I'm getting back, although, again, there's some expectation that you'll probably give me a gift in the future.

00:03:54 Speaker_00
Right. So who am I to disagree with how you just defined gift giving? But sticking with the only animal that gives gifts, does a gift have to be, let's say, wrapped?

00:04:02 Speaker_00
Because I could imagine that most other animals would have a hard time wrapping their gifts.

00:04:06 Speaker_03
I don't think it's the gift giving wrapping because, of course, we give gifts. all the time without wrapping, right? Like you can send somebody an e-gift certificate.

00:04:17 Speaker_03
You can, you know, buy somebody something off of a registry and I guess choose not to have it wrapped.

00:04:22 Speaker_03
I always find that interesting, you know, when somebody registers for a wedding gift from Macy's or Williams-Sonoma or wherever, and then you have that option as the gift giver to like pay $3.99 to have it wrapped. The wrapping itself, I think, is

00:04:37 Speaker_03
perhaps indicative, though, of like what this thing really is doing. Right. And what it is is surprise. I think that's why we wrap gifts, that we are trying to prolong the suspense.

00:04:48 Speaker_03
I mean, if you just like hand somebody, I don't know, like an Alexa or whatever it is, you have zero surprise, because like as soon as they see it, they know what it is.

00:04:57 Speaker_00
What if you're giving someone a card? You need to wrap that?

00:04:59 Speaker_03
Well, they do have those like huge car bows, actually.

00:05:02 Speaker_00
I think only on TV commercials. Have you ever seen one in real life?

00:05:05 Speaker_03
My stepbrother-in-law is a car salesman and they have them. And you'll be happy to know, because I've always wondered, they reuse them. So you can like basically rent a bow.

00:05:16 Speaker_03
Now, that, of course, does not have the surprise thing, because you're not like, gee, I wonder what's under this bow, because it's pretty obvious that it's a car.

00:05:25 Speaker_00
Unless you're pretty unperceptive.

00:05:29 Speaker_03
But I think it's just like a vestige of this thing that we do. Gift-giving is probably, I think, a pretty complex human interaction. But there's part of it, which is the moment of receipt.

00:05:40 Speaker_03
And some psychologists have suggested that gift-givers think almost entirely about that moment of the gift exchange. Like, when Stephen unwraps this, what is he going to

00:05:52 Speaker_03
feel and think, whereas we kind of neglect, I guess, the rest of the transaction, which is like Stephen takes it home, and then Stephen's going to use it or not use it for the rest of his life.

00:06:05 Speaker_03
And so the mistake that, again, some psychologists have argued is that the gift giver frequently errs in only thinking about that very first stage and not thinking about the rest of life.

00:06:18 Speaker_00
Well, this explains, A, why Juliana is so concerned about getting something for her father that he will like, and B, why we are generally so bad at giving gifts. I would also add to the list that it is OK to ask someone.

00:06:32 Speaker_00
I mean, Juliana could ask her dad. I think that's a really interesting research point you make about essentially the gift givers thinking short term versus long term. We're thinking about the moment versus the actual use or appreciation of the thing.

00:06:46 Speaker_03
Because that's the only part we're around for. Like, what else, you know, would we care about?

00:06:50 Speaker_00
Well, theoretically, but a lot of times you give a gift to someone that you spend time with. Oh, that's true. So it could be a friend, could be a family member. And so you actually get to see them use it or not use it.

00:07:00 Speaker_00
I mean, I've given my wife a lot of gifts over the years. some of which have landed well, a couple of which landed amazingly, most of which didn't land very well.

00:07:11 Speaker_00
And sometimes I'll give her a piece of art, maybe by an artist that we both know, hoping that she will love it. Those pieces of art usually end up in my office, I will say.

00:07:22 Speaker_03
So you gave yourself a piece of art.

00:07:23 Speaker_00
Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, if you look at the data on gift recipients happiness about the gifts that they get, let's look at holidays. It's pretty bad. So I'm looking at one survey here, which doesn't feel super scientific.

00:07:36 Speaker_00
But this one survey notes that 52 percent of Americans surveyed admit to getting at least one unwanted gift over the holidays. I think that's probably absurdly low. I think it probably should be 98 percent.

00:07:50 Speaker_03
I know. It's like a lower value.

00:07:51 Speaker_00
Here's a little bit different data. This is from Statista, which might be a little bit more robust. It lists the gifts that people dislike receiving for Christmas. I have to say, some of these really surprised me.

00:08:06 Speaker_00
What would you guess would be among the categories that people most dislike receiving for Christmas?

00:08:12 Speaker_03
This is like family feud. I'm going to go with clothing.

00:08:16 Speaker_00
No, clothing is actually right up there among the favorites. What? Among other favorites are household items and electronics. Tech gears. Does that say electronics and tech gears? I don't even know what that's supposed to mean. Very radio shack.

00:08:31 Speaker_00
Wait, I want to make sure I'm reading this right.

00:08:33 Speaker_03
Yeah, do you have this list wrong? Because how can clothing? There's the, you know, don't just think about the moment of opening. Think about the lifetime usage.

00:08:42 Speaker_03
But I think the other thing we're getting to here is, like, you have to predict what that person really wants. You have to have empathy. And I think that is no small feat. I think it's very hard to have empathy about the clothing.

00:08:56 Speaker_03
I do have this one horrible gift-giving story, but I don't know if I'm allowed to tell it.

00:09:02 Speaker_00
I feel like I can't be the person to give you permission, but let's pretend I am. Yes, it's okay to tell the story.

00:09:08 Speaker_03
So one year, I think it was for my birthday, Jason goes down to the local department store, I guess Nordstrom or whatever, and he goes to the dress section for women and he seeks out a salesperson and he describes me, his new wife.

00:09:28 Speaker_00
Can I just say everything about this is setting off alarm bells in my mind?

00:09:31 Speaker_03
I know, right? It's like a horror movie. You're walking backwards.

00:09:35 Speaker_00
And Jason, I'm sure you meant well, but OK, proceed.

00:09:38 Speaker_03
It was tragic. It was it was catastrophic. So, you know, let's say it's my birthday. Maybe it was like Valentine's Day. It was like a appropriately terrible kind of like setting for this because expectations, I think, are another

00:09:51 Speaker_03
nuance of gift giving, right? Like, what do I think I'm going to get? So we're newly in love. I feel like my husband really knows me. I get this huge, beautifully wrapped box with a bow on it, Steven.

00:10:06 Speaker_03
And I open it up and inside is like the teeniest little dress I've ever seen. I mean, I couldn't fit my pinky into it. I tried it on and then I wept.

00:10:17 Speaker_00
In front of him? Like while you're trying it on?

00:10:19 Speaker_03
I'm not sure whether he was there for the trying on or not. I do remember, though, feeling and again, I can't believe I'm saying this because now I'm a much wiser 52 year old. But I was like, oh, my God, I'm a whale.

00:10:32 Speaker_03
I felt the way many women feel when they are given a piece of clothing, which is like four sizes too small, which is you feel four sizes too big.

00:10:41 Speaker_00
Can I just say in Jason's defense for a moment?

00:10:44 Speaker_03
Yeah.

00:10:44 Speaker_00
Men don't understand women's clothing sizes.

00:10:48 Speaker_03
This is why I think that list has to have it wrong. Like, who gives clothing and feels confident that it's gonna land well?

00:10:56 Speaker_00
Well, first of all, there are many items of clothing that aren't a small dress.

00:11:01 Speaker_03
Yes, facts.

00:11:02 Speaker_00
I'm sorry it didn't work out for you and Jason, but all I can tell you is that clothing are among the least disliked categories of gifts that people receive for Christmas, according to Statista, which now that I look at the data, is only a little over 1,000 respondents.

00:11:18 Speaker_00
That's not bad. But listen, I want to get to the gifts that people most dislike. So clothing, household items and electronics people like. I have to say the top three surprise me. Number one, flowers and plants. Oh, people don't want them.

00:11:31 Speaker_03
Yeah, I don't really like them. OK, good. I'm in that group.

00:11:34 Speaker_00
Number two, beauty products.

00:11:36 Speaker_03
Oh, like moisturizer?

00:11:38 Speaker_00
I don't know. It just says beauty products, I guess. It's makeup. It's anything like that. And I could imagine that there is a lot of mismatching going on there.

00:11:45 Speaker_00
I think in all these categories, the greater the possibility for mismatch, the greater the likelihood that there will be some dissatisfaction. Right. Because I may think that you might like a certain category of something.

00:11:57 Speaker_00
But if I don't know enough about the items in that category, I can imagine the mismatch being quite large.

00:12:03 Speaker_03
Well, give me the third one and we'll see if we can make a pattern out of this.

00:12:06 Speaker_00
liquor or drinks, which again surprises me because I've very rarely been ungrateful.

00:12:13 Speaker_03
Right. For like a nice bottle of wine.

00:12:15 Speaker_00
I don't drink wine, but I love getting wine so that I can then give it to someone else.

00:12:19 Speaker_03
How many bottles of wine are regifted? I think it's got to be over 100 percent.

00:12:26 Speaker_00
Well, let me ask you this. When receiving a gift that you don't like, should you lie?

00:12:31 Speaker_03
You know, there is this developmental psychology task that you use to test kids' self-control. And most people think like, oh, the marshmallow task.

00:12:39 Speaker_03
Well, there's another task that is sometimes used for little kids, and that is you give them a gift that you know they won't like. And how do you know? Well, at phase one in this task, you show kids all different kinds of toys.

00:12:54 Speaker_03
And sometimes they rig this because, like, some of the toys are brand new and the other ones are, like, broken or missing parts. And you ask the, like, four-year-old, which of these is your very, very, very favorite?

00:13:03 Speaker_03
And they point to the brand new whatever it is. And then you say, well, which is the worst one? And, of course, they point to the doll that has one eye or whatever, like, this thing that they don't want.

00:13:13 Speaker_00
I've always wanted a one-eyed doll, I have to say.

00:13:17 Speaker_03
Wow, that is so disturbing.

00:13:19 Speaker_00
Because I never liked dolls because they seemed too perfect and perky. But if you'd given me a one-eyed doll, man, oh man, friends for life.

00:13:27 Speaker_03
I'll keep that in mind. I'm going to make a note of that.

00:13:28 Speaker_00
Appreciate it.

00:13:29 Speaker_03
But in this test, Stephen, the unwanted gift is what the experimenter then wraps up all nice and fine, probably with a bow.

00:13:36 Speaker_03
And then, you know, after the kid's kind of like forgotten about this, which doesn't take too long, they're four, you hand them this gift. And they're excited and they unwrap it. And then they get this thing they don't want.

00:13:47 Speaker_03
And the question is, how self-controlled are you? What do you do? There's, I think, a pretty reasonable gender difference here, which you can probably guess at. Like, which kids smile politely and thank the gift giver?

00:14:01 Speaker_00
Definitely the boys, because we boys are raised to be conformist, polite and kind to everyone.

00:14:09 Speaker_03
Ah, Steven. But no, it's reasonably well established that girls pass this test with flying colors, relative anyway, to boys.

00:14:16 Speaker_03
But my point is that when we receive gifts, it is also part of human custom to express gratitude, whether or not we really want the bottle of wine, the, you know, size zero dress.

00:14:32 Speaker_00
It's part of the ritual. And if part of the ritual is charade, as some people say, then so be it.

00:14:40 Speaker_02
Still to come on No Stupid Questions, Stephen and Angela debate when cash is an appropriate gift.

00:14:47 Speaker_03
I have to say that my kids would vastly prefer Venmo to any other form of gift-giving, and they have increasingly gotten their way.

00:15:06 Speaker_02
Now, back to Stephen and Angela's conversation about gift giving.

00:15:14 Speaker_00
So let's go back to Juliane for a minute. She mentioned her dad is an economist or, you know, studied econ. She herself, she says she's a senior econ major at Lehigh. So she probably does know about what economists call dead weight loss.

00:15:26 Speaker_00
Are you familiar with this notion of gift giving?

00:15:28 Speaker_03
Why don't you give me a little tutorial?

00:15:31 Speaker_00
So for those who wish to know more, you could search for Deadweight Loss, Deadweight One Word, and Joel Waldfogel. W-A-L-D-F-O-G-E-L. And he is an economist. I want to say he's at the University of Minnesota. And this was a paper from a long time ago.

00:15:48 Speaker_00
And Joel subsequently wrote a book that revolved around this. It was called Scroogenomics.

00:15:54 Speaker_00
It made the point that economists look at gift-giving a little bit differently than most people might, and what he focused on, what he calls deadweight loss, is essentially a measurement of the gap between what a gift costs the giver

00:16:09 Speaker_00
in dollars and how the recipient values it in dollars.

00:16:13 Speaker_03
It's like destroying value, right?

00:16:15 Speaker_00
Yeah. An example would be your grandmother buys you a sweater for $100 and you, if in your deepest, most honest moment, could admit what you would, let's say, buy it for and that price is $10, then the deadweight loss is $90. It's the difference.

00:16:35 Speaker_00
You can see why this is a fairly tricky subject, because so much of our culture and economy are built around the notion of buying stuff for other people.

00:16:47 Speaker_00
And so if an economist comes along and says, hey, a great deal of the stuff that you buy for other people is just wasted, you'd be better off not giving them a gift, or maybe you just want to give them cash, which is something that most humans don't really like.

00:17:02 Speaker_03
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You think that most human beings don't want to get a cash gift?

00:17:09 Speaker_00
I didn't say get. I think many people would be really happy to get money. But I think our gift giving culture has conspired against the comfort of being able to give cash. That's why gift cards exist.

00:17:22 Speaker_00
It's like almost as good, but it's not really as good.

00:17:25 Speaker_03
Gift cards are fascinating because it's like basically cash but worse because you can only use it at the gap or something.

00:17:31 Speaker_00
Way worse.

00:17:31 Speaker_03
Let me just quibble a bit though about our custom of gift giving. I'm Chinese. Like we almost only give cash. Right. at my wedding. We did register. But the cash part at a Chinese wedding, there are red envelopes.

00:17:47 Speaker_03
And those red envelopes don't contain gift cards. It's like cold, hard cash. And sometimes, like, they'll write a check that's very modern. But I think in my family tradition, there is not only cash received and given at weddings.

00:18:02 Speaker_03
There's also cash given and received at Chinese New Year. And we don't celebrate Christmas or Hanukkah. So this idea that it's not customary to exchange cold hard cash. It's certainly not universal.

00:18:15 Speaker_00
So do you and Jason give your kids cash gifts?

00:18:19 Speaker_03
to say that my kids would vastly prefer Venmo to any other form of gift giving. And they have increasingly gotten their way. I think we had the years where they were too young. So we were, of course, giving them like actual things.

00:18:37 Speaker_03
Now they're like 19 and 21 and it's almost all cash.

00:18:42 Speaker_00
Do you think it would be appropriate or even a good idea for Juliana just to give her dad, the economist, some cash?

00:18:49 Speaker_03
Well, I mean, she could print out the Joel Waldfogel article, Deadweight Loss of Christmas.

00:18:54 Speaker_00
That's the present, just printing out an academic paper.

00:18:57 Speaker_03
Right. Like, Dad, Merry Christmas. You'll be happy to know there's no deadweight lost with this gift. I'm not going to mispredict what you want. She might get a good laugh out of that, actually.

00:19:09 Speaker_03
I think gift giving has all these different nuances and facets, and I think One is just this transaction where you're trying to guess what the person really will find useful. That's just a part of it.

00:19:23 Speaker_03
I would say, for example, Stephen, like I, around Thanksgiving, make a list of all the people that professionally I have some gratitude for. And then there's this column, which is like how much cash to give them.

00:19:37 Speaker_03
Like the mailman, we usually just tape an envelope to the mailbox. The legal limit, by the way, is $20. I looked it up.

00:19:44 Speaker_00
By the way, I think you should give your mailman a copy of the deadweight loss paper. Just see what happens.

00:19:49 Speaker_03
See what happens. But, you know, if I can't Venmo them and I can't send them a check or I can't give them cash, then I send them Amazon because I think that's as close as we can get to cash. And you could say that there's no bow. There's no surprise.

00:20:03 Speaker_03
There's no wrapping. And there's also none of this guessing, this like empathy game that we play where

00:20:10 Speaker_03
If you do nail it, if you do get somebody that gift that's just perfect for them, then, you know, there's more utility, as economists would say, than even if they had bought it themselves. Yeah.

00:20:22 Speaker_03
But since the probability is that I'm going to get it wrong for this list of professional acquaintances, Yeah, I just do that. Now, what do you think about that? Because I feel like it is both efficient for me.

00:20:35 Speaker_03
And also, since I don't know these people super well personally, since I'm likely to get it wrong, I feel like it's like the perfect gift solution.

00:20:44 Speaker_00
So I think that is a very viable solution you've come upon. I'm not sure I would call it gift giving, however.

00:20:50 Speaker_03
You don't think it's a gift?

00:20:51 Speaker_00
I mean, you can call it a gift if you want, but it's not what I think of as gift giving. If we think about gift giving as an action of intimacy or love or friendship, which includes reciprocity often.

00:21:03 Speaker_00
Maybe not in the moment, maybe you give me something for my birthday and I give you something later for your birthday.

00:21:10 Speaker_00
But what you're describing now, which sounds very nice, but it sounds to me like a cross between a professional bonus and a kind of thank you payment, all of which are lovely. I'm sure people are grateful for it. I have my set of

00:21:25 Speaker_00
things like that in New York City. We call it tipping culture, though not gift giving culture around Christmas, which is you tip all the people who work in your building.

00:21:35 Speaker_00
Same thing if you park your car in a garage in New York, you are expected to have an envelope for each of them, too. So, yes, I definitely engage in that sort of prescribed.

00:21:45 Speaker_03
And that's not a gift for you.

00:21:46 Speaker_00
When I think of gift-giving of the type that Julianne is talking about, it's a relationship in a family where there are a variety of circumstances that make it quite different from what you were talking about, what I was talking about just now.

00:21:58 Speaker_00
And those are there is a reciprocity or an expectation of reciprocity, there is a relationship, and it's a continuing relationship. And there's also, I guess I would describe it as love, right? So when I think about

00:22:12 Speaker_00
the kinds of gifts that are wonderful or terrible, I guess, to give or receive, I think of how they sort of change or even improve the calculus of the relationship between the people.

00:22:27 Speaker_00
In other words, I can think of a couple of gifts that Ellen, my wife, has given me over the years.

00:22:32 Speaker_03
Yeah, I want to hear the highlights and the lowlights from the Dubner family.

00:22:37 Speaker_00
So first of all, she's just good.

00:22:39 Speaker_03
That does not surprise me.

00:22:41 Speaker_00
I think she does a lot of things that the people who give advice about gift giving prescribe. I saw an article just recently in Vox called How to Become a Truly Excellent Gift Giver, and it advises you ask three questions.

00:22:57 Speaker_00
Number one, can I introduce someone to something they might not otherwise know about? Number two, can I get them a nicer version of something than they would buy for themselves? And number three, can I make them feel seen?

00:23:09 Speaker_00
I'm not sure really what that means.

00:23:12 Speaker_03
Oh God, that's the best one.

00:23:14 Speaker_00
Oh really? To make you feel seen? Why is that the best one?

00:23:17 Speaker_03
I think this actually does get to the heart of this like empathy problem. And the empathy game is like, can I guess what you really are and who you really think of yourself as and what you really want? and need.

00:23:33 Speaker_03
I mean, some of the best gifts I ever got were from my aunt. In Chinese, it's xiaoyi, which means like little auntie, like my mom's little sister. My parents would regularly get me no gift. They were not world-class gift givers. I'm their daughter.

00:23:48 Speaker_03
But my aunt somehow would get me The perfect gift. I'm thinking about when I was like a really little girl. She got me this little yellow safe once. It had a little red dial. I just loved it so much.

00:24:01 Speaker_03
There was a store called Woolworths, and there was this little lipstick holder. It was so grown up, and it was so perfect. And she really made me feel seen. Like, she hands me this gift, and the gift essentially says, like, I know you. I see you.

00:24:16 Speaker_03
So I love that third criterion.

00:24:18 Speaker_00
I love that your little aunt gave you these great gifts, and it sounds as though she understood you, and yeah, saw you, and appreciated you, and had really great empathic skills.

00:24:30 Speaker_00
It's also a little surprising to me to hear you talk about these gifts so positively when you just got done telling us that, nah, I'm Chinese, we just do cash.

00:24:39 Speaker_03
But if I were as good as Ellen.

00:24:41 Speaker_00
But maybe you have a comfort in resorting to cash and saying that I'm particularly comfortable with this in part because I've got a cultural association with it, because I'm Chinese.

00:24:51 Speaker_00
Whereas, in fact, what you really, really want, what Angela, Angela, Angela really, really, really wants. is just to be a little bit better at gift-giving. And maybe you resort to cash because it's so darn hard.

00:25:04 Speaker_00
And it sounds like Juliana is having that same problem. I think it's really, really hard, especially when you're giving gifts every year, a couple times a year maybe, to the same people over and over again.

00:25:16 Speaker_00
On the other hand, I would posit that there is great value in this. And even if you fail most of the time, that the times that you succeed really do make up for it. For instance, the most amazing gift I ever got was from Ellen, my wife.

00:25:34 Speaker_00
She commissioned an artist we both know, this was a while ago when our kids were pretty young, to paint a family portrait.

00:25:42 Speaker_00
And it was done through photographs and voluminous emails and a lot of drafts of the painting in order that the portrait really reflected all four of us who were painted in a style that felt so true to us individually and as a family.

00:25:59 Speaker_00
We each had one item in our possession that was kind of subtly painted, but it was like the perfect item. And it was an amazing gift.

00:26:07 Speaker_00
And every time I see it on the wall in our home, every single time, I think of how much I love it and how much I love her for it.

00:26:16 Speaker_00
So I would argue that you, who sound a little pro-cash, but also sound like you are in touch with at least that little girl, Angela, who loves to get that yellow safe with the red knob or the little lipstick case.

00:26:30 Speaker_00
I think even you can sense that when it's done right, there is an emotional payoff that is worth pursuing, even if the rate of failure can be really high.

00:26:41 Speaker_03
even if there's a dead weight loss on average. OK, look, Stephen, I will concede a lot of this ground to you. I agree that if I could nail it, I would. But I like having this kind of like fallback, which probably is.

00:26:56 Speaker_03
you know, culturally, the script that I was raised on.

00:27:00 Speaker_00
Well, can I borrow from my friend Angela Duckworth? And let's say both and instead of either or. I'm not saying you need to give people cash and some handpicked gift, but both are fine. You've established that giving cash really works. It's useful.

00:27:14 Speaker_00
People like getting it. But also, you are someone who truly has a growth mindset, and if you truly do, I could imagine that you could set a goal for yourself of becoming a slightly better gift giver over the next several years.

00:27:27 Speaker_00
I think there are a lot of ways to go about doing that. I mean, the best advice I've ever heard is simply don't start thinking about giving a gift when it's almost time to give the gift, because that's really hard.

00:27:42 Speaker_00
If it's someone that you know and spend time around, just always be on the lookout. So I find that there's a lot of fungibility in how we think about gift giving, good and bad.

00:27:54 Speaker_00
And I think that you have all the skills to become excellent at it if you apply yourself.

00:28:00 Speaker_03
I feel like this is like a pep talk. This is like Stephen Dubner trying to convince Angela Duckworth that she can move beyond Venmo this holiday season.

00:28:09 Speaker_00
Look, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Venmo. Can I share one other thing with you here, though? This is an article published in the Journal of Business Research.

00:28:17 Speaker_00
This is from 2020, this article says that gift givers do not repeat gifts nearly as often as recipients prefer because givers perceive the act of giving a repeat gift to be less thoughtful and more boring than do recipients.

00:28:34 Speaker_00
So that I found really interesting and it makes sense because if someone likes something once they'll probably like it again.

00:28:40 Speaker_00
So I'm going to take that to heart and last year I gave Ellen for some birthday or whatever a monthly subscription to flowers delivered.

00:28:51 Speaker_03
What like flowers of the month?

00:28:53 Speaker_00
It's a company called Urban Stems. I thought that gift was a little bit cliche, maybe a little bit tacky.

00:29:00 Speaker_03
Flowers and plants are number one on the list of gifts that people don't want.

00:29:04 Speaker_00
There you go. But it turns out every month we get a new bouquet. It is seasonally appropriate and Ellen likes it.

00:29:12 Speaker_00
And so I might get her something else in addition, but I'm definitely going to repeat that because, oh, my goodness, once you find something that someone likes, why on earth Do you not just want to get it again?

00:29:23 Speaker_03
OK, look, this is an infinitely complex topic. Like, yes, I agree. If something works like they really liked the Sausage of the Month Club, I'm just going to like click on the button again this year. And, you know, joking aside.

00:29:37 Speaker_00
Wait a minute. Are you joking? Because Sausage of the Month Club sounds kind of fantastic.

00:29:42 Speaker_03
Actually, that would be a really good gift for Jason.

00:29:44 Speaker_00
because he would feel seen. Look at you. I'm so proud of you. You have evolved so much in the course of this conversation.

00:29:52 Speaker_03
I know, so much progress. I think there's another option here, in addition to Sausage of the Month, you know, commissioned painting as ideas for Juliana. I had the suggestion that I used with my own dad, who was also hard to give gifts to.

00:30:07 Speaker_03
I wrote him a letter, actually, every Christmas, and it always hit. In a way, it's like the opposite of cash. It's not exchangeable. It's unique. And I think there's an element of gift giving that we haven't quite gotten to yet, Stephen.

00:30:25 Speaker_03
And that is, what emotion do you think is usually the emotion that one has when one receives a gift?

00:30:32 Speaker_00
I would say it would be gratitude.

00:30:34 Speaker_03
That is right. So gratitude is experienced most when we feel like we have gotten something from someone else and... And it's fully refundable? No, good guess.

00:30:46 Speaker_03
But that they've made some sacrifice, that it took something of their effort that they sacrificed, their time that they sacrificed or their resources. There has to have been a price to it. So when you write a letter,

00:31:01 Speaker_03
to your dad, Juliana, you're going to show that you have put in effort.

00:31:07 Speaker_03
So, look, it's a complex issue, but I do think that when you have somebody that you really love, and it's personal and it's not professional, what else is there than a letter that could kind of like hit all those notes pretty reliably?

00:31:21 Speaker_00
That is a lovely and great point. I will say in this case, this is an odd one because Juliana somehow conned you and me into talking about her giving her dad a gift for the past half hour. And so she can now just send him the link to this episode.

00:31:34 Speaker_00
So Neil, Juliana is a crafty person and I applaud her craftiness.

00:31:41 Speaker_03
I feel like we should just say, Mr. Bonner, that you have a wonderful daughter. And I hope that this conversation has been a surprise. I hope it's something that you didn't already have.

00:31:53 Speaker_03
I hope it was a nicer version of a podcast that you might have indulged yourself in. And I hope it makes you feel seen.

00:32:01 Speaker_00
So, Angela, do you think anything we've discussed today changes your approach at all?

00:32:05 Speaker_03
I would say this. I think that you have to ask yourself, like, how much of a risk taker am I? Am I going to go for the glory and try to guess at something that they don't have? It's nicer than they would buy for themselves. They're going to feel seen.

00:32:21 Speaker_03
I think I've got it. Or do I want to play the safe option and give the equivalent of a red envelope filled with cash?

00:32:28 Speaker_03
I think I'm going to make a case-by-case call, Stephen, but when I doubt myself, you know, given the deadweight loss issue and given how many times I really have gotten things where I was like, oh my gosh, not only do I not want this, now I have to recycle it or whatever.

00:32:44 Speaker_03
It's a burden. I'm going to be pretty risk-averse. I don't know if that makes you feel like you've done your work as a coach, but I'm still going to be risk-averse this year as I have been in holidays past.

00:32:56 Speaker_00
You know, I have faith in you. We'll see how you do this year. Maybe we'll check in next year and see if you've grown a little bit because I have massive belief in your potential to just keep growing. I would like to just add one thing.

00:33:06 Speaker_00
First of all, I think it's very uncomfortable for many people to ask for a gift. And I am within that category, but I am about to break my discomfort level. And I am about to say to all our listeners, it is really lovely.

00:33:22 Speaker_00
Many of you write to us with all kinds of words, kind words, inquisitive words, and so on. And a lot of people write to say that they want to do something for us.

00:33:33 Speaker_00
I will say there is something that people can do that would be a really nice gift, which is tell your friends and family to listen to the show. In the world of podcasting, the single best way to grow an audience is word of mouth.

00:33:49 Speaker_00
And so if you like this show, feel free to tell your friends and family. If you feel really committed, you can go on to your podcast app and leave a rating or review.

00:34:00 Speaker_00
If you don't like this show very much and you do want to leave a rating or review, go leave your crappy rating on This American Life or Armchair Expert, whatever. Save your five-star feelings for us.

00:34:16 Speaker_02
Coming up after the break, a fact check of today's conversation. And now, a fact check of today's conversation. In the first half of the show, Angela says that she thinks that humans are the only species that practice gift-giving. This is incorrect.

00:34:41 Speaker_02
Certain other animals give gifts as well, although admittedly not rapt. For example, University of Washington ornithologist John Marsliff has spent years researching how crows give presents to each other and to humans.

00:34:56 Speaker_02
People who feed wild crows might be rewarded with found objects.

00:35:00 Speaker_02
A 2015 BBC profile of a young girl who befriended a crow in her garden reported that the girl had been given dozens of small objects, including a miniature silver ball, a pearl-colored heart, and a yellow bead.

00:35:14 Speaker_02
She also received a rotting crab claw, which demonstrates that what makes a good gift is subjective. Later, Steven doubts that attaching giant bows to cars is a phenomenon that exists outside of television commercials.

00:35:29 Speaker_02
But Angela insists that the company her car salesman brother-in-law works for allows customers to rent bows.

00:35:35 Speaker_02
Websites like CarBows.com, KingsizeBow, and, of course, Amazon, offer a multitude of purchasable options, from gigantic Christmas-themed bows to massive ribbons that read Sweet 16.

00:35:49 Speaker_02
The concept was popularized by Lexus's December to Remember campaign, which launched in 1998.

00:35:55 Speaker_02
Today, King-Sized Bows, the company responsible for the bows in Lexus ads, reportedly sells thousands of car bows a year that are shipped all over the world. Clients can customize color, sheen, size, and number of loops.

00:36:12 Speaker_02
Finally, Angela shares that because of her Chinese background, she often feels more comfortable giving money than physical presents. While Angela chooses to Venmo her colleagues to show appreciation, gift-giving does occur in Chinese workplaces.

00:36:28 Speaker_02
It's relatively common to bring physical gifts to important business meetings. Presents that have strong associations with the giver's local identity are appreciated. Gifts are usually quickly reciprocated with a present of equal value.

00:36:43 Speaker_02
That's it for the fact check. No Stupid Questions is part of the Freakonomics Radio Network, which also includes Freakonomics Radio, People I Mostly Admire, and The Economics of Everyday Things. All our shows are produced by Stitcher and Renbud Radio.

00:37:03 Speaker_02
The senior producer of the show is me, Rebecca Lee Douglas, and Lyric Bowditch is our production associate. This episode was mixed by Eleanor Osborn, with help from Jeremy Johnston and Greg Rippin.

00:37:15 Speaker_02
We had research assistants on this episode from Catherine Mencure. Our theme song was composed by Luis Guerra. To learn more or to read episode transcripts, visit Freakonomics.com slash NSQ. Thanks for listening.

00:37:36 Speaker_03
I've seen that painting. It's gorgeous, even for me, who's not in your family.

00:37:40 Speaker_00
Even for you who actively dislikes my family, you find it to be a meaningful portrait.

00:37:44 Speaker_03
Exactly. Even me, who finds each and every one of you are pregnant.

00:37:53 Speaker_01
The Freakonomics Radio Network. The hidden side of everything. Stitcher.