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Episode: Holiday Special 2023
Author: Ben Gilbert and David Rosenthal
Duration: 02:15:36
Episode Shownotes
Ben has some big news. Actually, double big news! On what has become a holiday tradition here at Acquired, we cozy up to the fire to do our annual review of the show “in public”. We reflect on what can only be described as an absolutely mind-blowing 2023 (LVMH! Jensen!
Costco! Charlie! Half a million plus listeners!) and look ahead to some big things cooking for 2024. Plus as always, we wrap with extended carve outs (joined this year by some surprise guests) for anyone still shopping for those holiday perfect gifts.Huge thank you to everyone for making 2023 an amazing year again here in Acquired-land, and cheers to even greater things to come in 2023!Sponsors:ServiceNow: https://bit.ly/acqsnaiagentsHuntress: https://bit.ly/acqhuntressVanta: https://bit.ly/acquiredvantaMore Acquired!:Get email updates with hints on next episode and follow-ups from recent episodesJoin the SlackSubscribe to ACQ2Merch Store!Links / Extended Carve Outs!The Psychology of MoneyThe Artist’s WayTransitionsThinking, Fast and SlowZojirushi hot water heaterNike Pegasus Trail 4 GORE-TEXMillJune OvenSiloAliasWarby Parker Amari glassesHoka Ora recovery shoesAdobe Light RoomThe Eureka Theory of Everything is Wrong by Derek ThompsonThe Luxury StrategyCandideThe QB SchoolMNF ManningCastThe Eras TourUppababy VistaThe Joolz Aer PlusCocoAt PresentNote: Acquired hosts and guests may hold assets discussed in this episode. This podcast is not investment advice, and is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. You should do your own research and make your own independent decisions when considering any financial transactions.
Full Transcript
00:00:00 Speaker_00
I am loving that you also busted out the holiday sweater. Feels very appropriate. Yes, I purchased this holiday sweater at the Seattle Nordstrom for our 2019 live show at the University of Washington. It's like two months before the pandemic hit.
00:00:17 Speaker_00
That's right.
00:00:18 Speaker_03
And I think I wore it last year too. I feel like you did. Yeah, we were right behind me.
00:00:24 Speaker_03
I wish we were doing it again this year, but it seems prudent to not have a father of a toddler hopping on an airplane and then sit in a confined space with me for five hours right now.
00:00:34 Speaker_00
A lot of germs in my life right now.
00:00:38 Speaker_03
Thank you for your precautions. Welcome to Season 13, Episode 5, the season finale and holiday special of Acquired, the podcast about great companies and the stories and playbooks behind them. I'm Ben Gilbert.
00:01:07 Speaker_00
I'm David Rosenthal.
00:01:09 Speaker_03
And we are your hosts. You see what I did there, David? I did. I did. No technology. No technology.
00:01:17 Speaker_03
Yes, I motion to, you know, the whole board of directors here that we drop technology from our intro since I crunched the numbers and four of the 14 episodes we did this year were technology companies.
00:01:28 Speaker_00
All right. Well, it's a good thing that there are no other board members required besides you and me, because I am in full agreement. Unanimous. And otherwise we would have had a deadlocked vote there one to one.
00:01:39 Speaker_03
That's true. And I don't think our charter really actually ever accounts for what to do in that circumstance. Yes, listeners, if you count Lockheed Martin, it's five. If you count Visa, it's six.
00:01:48 Speaker_03
But the minority of the episodes that we did in 2023 were tech companies, which is a very fascinating evolution to me based on where Acquired started analyzing technology acquisitions that actually went well.
00:02:02 Speaker_03
But of course, we will keep doing deep episodes on tech companies since we are nerds, and that's where we've spent, you know, our whole careers so far.
00:02:10 Speaker_03
So if you liked the programming and assembly language on air from NVIDIA, or I guess assembly language pseudocode, or our Qualcomm episode where we tried to describe how the CDMA protocol works, we're still here for you.
00:02:22 Speaker_03
We're just going to do a lot of LVMH, NFL, Visa, Costco, Nike, you know, mixed in there. So what are we doing here today? Well, David and I are going to bring you good tidings, good cheer, hopefully, and keep you company. Yes.
00:02:37 Speaker_00
Happy holidays. Cheers. Cheers. I've got my cinnamon infused hot chocolate here. It's delicious.
00:02:44 Speaker_03
Ooh, you're feeling very festive. Yes, we are here to keep you company on your long drives or flights or workouts or house cleaning or whatever over the holidays.
00:02:54 Speaker_03
On our agenda today is a recap of acquired this year, both the state of the franchise from the board of directors themselves,
00:03:02 Speaker_03
We will also be giving you some new tidbits on our favorite episodes behind each one of them, why we picked them, how they came to be, what listeners helped us select, that sort of thing.
00:03:12 Speaker_03
We're going to talk about how we see Acquired fitting into the broader media landscape, how our views about the show and the stuff that we cover have changed over time, what's in store for Acquired in 2024.
00:03:24 Speaker_03
new carve outs and answering listener questions from the Slack. And then at the end of the episode, we're going to share a little bit about David and my investing lives and how those will be changing in 2024.
00:03:36 Speaker_03
As David, you and I are going to get to do much more of our investing together.
00:03:40 Speaker_00
I know it's going to come full circle. We started both at Madrona investing together and well, we'll just have to talk about this later in the episode.
00:03:49 Speaker_03
We will. But first, listeners, I mentioned in one quick line on the Charlie interview and have not said anything on any social media or anything like that since, but I am a parent.
00:04:01 Speaker_03
I'm joining David on the parenting journey with approximately a one-month-old here at the Gilbert household.
00:04:07 Speaker_00
Ben, Jenny and I are so, so, so happy for you guys. Parenting, as you know now, is the most joyous, difficult, wonderful, biggest thing you will ever do in your life. And there is no way to understand or describe it until you become one.
00:04:24 Speaker_00
So welcome to the club. Thank you.
00:04:26 Speaker_03
I think that's right. I think any words that I would say about what it's been like so far are words that other people tried to use to describe it to me, and I found them largely meaningless.
00:04:35 Speaker_03
I mean, I could say the same things that everyone else always says. And there have been some amazing things written. I think I read the Paul Graham article on kids. I read the fourth trimester Wait But Why piece.
00:04:45 Speaker_03
I've read... You read the Michael Lewis book, right? The Michael Lewis book. Yeah, that was good. I don't know, the words kind of bounce off you. You're like, well, why would that be fun? Why would that be rewarding? Why would waking up at 3 a.m.
00:04:56 Speaker_03
to change a diaper ensue the, you know, screaming? Like, why is that?
00:05:00 Speaker_03
But it's, actually, Morgan Housel put it to me in a really lovely way where he just said, what greater gift could you have than helping another human, another member in your family who's new to the world in their most intense time of need?
00:05:12 Speaker_03
And, you know, that intense time of need comes a dozen or two dozen times a day, but the sort of privilege of being able to...
00:05:18 Speaker_03
soothe someone when they're experiencing that sort of intense emotion, you know, they may not be fully formed, but babies are people, too.
00:05:24 Speaker_00
So absolutely. Yeah. Well, so great. That is big, big change. Number one, since we last reconvened here, big change. Number two is GeekWire reported about this already, but you are joining me full time next year on Acquired. I'm so, so excited.
00:05:45 Speaker_03
is about freaking time, huh David?
00:05:49 Speaker_00
I wasn't gonna say it, but.
00:05:51 Speaker_03
Yeah, I can't wait. You and I are so just fired up to double down on Acquired and it feels very fun to be going all in on it together. And On the one hand, it feels like it's been a long time coming.
00:06:03 Speaker_03
On the other hand, acquired has been such a slow burn over the last eight plus years that there was not like an obvious moment to do it.
00:06:10 Speaker_03
So it was one of these moments where you sort of look back and you're like, whoa, how am I not spending all of my waking time and energy on this when, you know, it is something that is just, you know, it's our life's work.
00:06:19 Speaker_03
As our friend Patrick O'Shaughnessy likes to say about the types of entrepreneurs he's looking for, like, this is definitively our life's work. And it wasn't when we started and somewhere along the way, gradually it just became that.
00:06:30 Speaker_00
Yeah, totally.
00:06:31 Speaker_03
And the way it's going to work, I'm transitioning to a venture partner at PSL at Pioneer Square Labs here in Seattle. So I still get to keep my board seats, which I think keeps me sharp for the show and stay a friend of the family there.
00:06:42 Speaker_03
So I'm excited to sort of change my role at PSL. But of course, all of my real time and energy going forward is acquired.
00:06:49 Speaker_00
I'm so happy not only for as a, you know, 50% shareholder and acquired, but you know,
00:06:55 Speaker_00
Even more so like you're my best friend and this means we're gonna spend even more time together and Just outside of the show outside of anything that that means for us our business, you know Episodes all of which are gonna get so much better.
00:07:09 Speaker_00
It just it brings me joy. I'm so happy Thanks, man.
00:07:13 Speaker_03
So we should say before we get too far in, this is not investment advice. This whole show, Dave and I may have investments in the companies we discuss in the show is for informational and entertainment purposes only.
00:07:21 Speaker_03
Somebody here has to follow the rules and keep us. I've got a nice script that's well built out in front of me. I also must apologize to listeners. I am coming in hot from podcast or paternity leave here.
00:07:33 Speaker_03
And if anything I say is completely incoherent, I am on pretty minimal sleep. So thank you for bearing with me.
00:07:39 Speaker_00
All the parents out there will understand and appreciate you being here.
00:07:42 Speaker_03
As do I. Yeah.
00:07:44 Speaker_00
Well, let's start the 2023 acquired year in review recap. Dude, this has been freaking wild.
00:07:54 Speaker_00
I mean, you were talking about like acquired has been a slow burn, you know, we have doubled every year and we've always been this example of exponential growth that like it starts small.
00:08:04 Speaker_00
And, you know, first year we doubled from two to four listeners, you know, like, but no, it wasn't exactly that.
00:08:10 Speaker_03
No, I worked it backwards one time. I think it was like 500 to 1000 or something. Actually, I should crunch that number, but there is a number you can figure out in year one since you know what our current numbers are.
00:08:19 Speaker_00
Yep.
00:08:20 Speaker_03
But small base. It was like small base, kind of small base, still pretty small base, you know.
00:08:25 Speaker_00
There were many years where nobody would have imagined that this would be either of our full-time gigs.
00:08:31 Speaker_03
No.
00:08:31 Speaker_00
And I actually, when I looked it up last year on our holiday special, I was both pretty excited and proud to announce and also terrified that we had hit a quarter million listeners to the pod felt like, holy crap, that's a big number.
00:08:49 Speaker_00
This is like real what we do. And I was terrified because I was like, we talk all the time. Ben talks all the time about how we double every year. Like, how on earth are we going to
00:08:57 Speaker_03
do that right you were like you should stop saying that because it's eventually going to not be true yeah because it's about to end which is true eventually it will not be true of course i mean unless literally we start expanding galactically or something like that
00:09:11 Speaker_03
Yeah, and the question is, how big is the addressable market for people who want to, in an audio-only medium, consume, you know, four-hour, essentially books, conversational audio books, about business histories, often in kind of an esoteric way?
00:09:26 Speaker_03
And granted, you and I have gotten much better at becoming storytellers over time, but each one of those sort of concentric circles niches it down, and I think you and I just thought that that addressable market was, you know, 100,000 people or something at first, but now we know it's at least half a million.
00:09:40 Speaker_00
Yes. So the big news, we hit half a million listeners this year, which is pretty wild. Hopefully we can put up the chart, the Ben Gilbert acquired chart that you make obsessively every month showing our episode growth over time.
00:09:55 Speaker_03
Which at some point I do want to stop making because I said last year on the show, like at the holiday special, I don't think growth is inherently virtuous for us, for the goals of our business here.
00:10:06 Speaker_03
And yet, I am the person who's sort of obsessively trying to compile the numbers and figure out, is it going to double again organically since we don't advertise or anything? And so, do I want to be known for the Ben Gilbert chart?
00:10:19 Speaker_03
I don't really think so, because it's actually antithetical to how I think about what we do. I do make the chart. I do put a lot of thought into it and what episodes will do what and trying to predict the numbers.
00:10:29 Speaker_03
I think a lot of people describe it as virtuous to, oh, I don't pay attention to the analytics. I think to each his own, I pay a lot of attention to the analytics. I think that helps you become better at making a product that people like.
00:10:42 Speaker_03
I don't understand why you wouldn't immerse yourself in every single number you possibly could all the time. It may lead you to a different outcome, but that outcome
00:10:52 Speaker_03
as long as you're measuring correctly seems to be make something that people want more. So yes, I obsessively look at the numbers. I look at the completion rates. I think that's super important.
00:11:04 Speaker_00
Well, and a related side part of that. Thank you to all of you. The half a million of you now for spending all this time with us this year. There's a lot to discuss. So You know, for me, I've kind of gone back and forth.
00:11:17 Speaker_00
You started saying, I think about two years ago, growth is not a goal. I don't know that growth is good for acquired. And I sort of nodded my head, but I wasn't totally sure.
00:11:27 Speaker_00
This year, I think, has really helped crystallize my thoughts on this as we've grown so much. I do completely agree with you.
00:11:38 Speaker_00
Growth in and of itself should not be a priority and in fact can be very detrimental to what I think we both want to do here if we optimize just for growth.
00:11:49 Speaker_00
What I think we've done this year goes back to the very start of this episode and you changing the intro.
00:11:57 Speaker_00
We went from a podcast about great technology companies and the stories and playbooks behind them to a podcast about great companies and the stories and playbooks behind them.
00:12:06 Speaker_00
And yes, we have continued to grow in the tech world and sort of our core niche. And I think that audience and audience potential is way bigger than we ever realized.
00:12:18 Speaker_00
But we've also added everybody else in the world now who is interested in business and runs a brand and thinks about brand management or runs a retailer or runs a
00:12:29 Speaker_00
large hardware business like Home Depot or something like that, you know, and also all around the world, too. I mean, some of our biggest episodes this year were A, not American companies.
00:12:40 Speaker_00
B, even if they were American companies, they were truly global brands and global companies. A lot of what we do, if we just wanted to optimize for growth, we would do differently. We would not make four-hour episodes.
00:12:52 Speaker_00
We would release more frequently, et cetera, et cetera.
00:12:55 Speaker_03
It's interesting. Growing from a podcast about great technology companies to a podcast about great companies is certainly a growth strategy or a byproduct of doing that is growth because the addressable market is larger.
00:13:08 Speaker_03
But I think it would fail if that wasn't just you and I following what our natural interests were. People ask us all the time, how do you pick episodes? And the answer is you and I talk for hours a day.
00:13:20 Speaker_03
We wander around our house and our neighborhoods, putting on AirPods and calling each other and talking about, you know,
00:13:24 Speaker_03
what's currently in our email inbox, what we're researching, what we need to do to ship an episode, prep for guests, that sort of thing. And one of the conversations that always is happening is, what are you interested in right now?
00:13:36 Speaker_03
How have your views shifted over X period of time? What is fascinating to you now?
00:13:40 Speaker_03
And I think the growth is sort of a byproduct of our obsessions shifting and becoming these durable businesses and trying to understand what makes a company worthy of being a century long company.
00:13:54 Speaker_03
regardless of where it came from or how it was funded or what technologies were used in creating it.
00:14:00 Speaker_00
I think that's been what's so cool for me. And my big lessons and takeaways from everything we've done this year is that those stories and studying the LVMHs, the Costco's, the Nike's of the world.
00:14:15 Speaker_00
If anything, that's like even more important than studying the great technology companies for building a great technology company. Yes.
00:14:24 Speaker_00
We found this just incredible response, especially to the LVMH episode of like, wow, here are these lessons that are not well talked about and known in our world.
00:14:34 Speaker_03
Right. It is kind of strange becoming canon. I never thought Acquired would get to the point where when we do an episode on something, it has the possibility to become an undertone of themes that people are discussing.
00:14:49 Speaker_03
And certainly years one through six or seven, that was never the case. But with LVMH, with Costco, maybe with Porsche, certainly with Nike,
00:15:01 Speaker_03
I think there was an element of we released the episode and suddenly we noticed the discussion, especially amongst the tech sphere, about that topic massively picked up, where people would go on CNBC and make a point that we made.
00:15:13 Speaker_03
And I'd call you, David, and go like, I wonder how that comparison got made.
00:15:17 Speaker_00
This is great. Maybe they didn't even listen to the episode. But what was cool is that enough people now have been consuming this and talking about it and getting value out of it.
00:15:27 Speaker_03
It gets in the water.
00:15:28 Speaker_00
It gets in the water. Yeah, it's wild.
00:15:30 Speaker_00
My favorite was a friend of mine who's a VC at Lightspeed texted me about two weeks after the Costco episode came out and said, dude, I have gotten three pitches this week from startups where at some point in the deck they talk about how their business model is similar to Costco.
00:15:46 Speaker_03
Yes, I don't want to overtude our own horn on this, but that has been a huge change this year that we have never seen in previous years is once we do an episode, it sort of gets in the water.
00:15:54 Speaker_00
Yeah. All right. So let's talk about the episodes. So we started the year actually with the NFL, which I think a lot about that episode still to this day. And the Visa episode that we finished the year with was like the NFL Coda part two.
00:16:09 Speaker_00
Then we did LVMH, which I feel like we have even more to talk about. Nintendo, Lockheed, Porsche, Nike, Costco, NVIDIA Part 3, and then Visa.
00:16:20 Speaker_00
And then our interviews this year, and we should talk about our kind of change in strategy from what used to be specials last year to acquired interviews this year. Daniel Ek, Dara Cosmos Shahi from Uber, Jensen from Nvidia, and then Charlie.
00:16:37 Speaker_00
But let's stick with the season first. Of that, what was your favorite that we did this year? Like Ben Gilbert's personal favorite episode?
00:16:46 Speaker_03
I think the most interesting businesses or businesses that sort of tickle me are Costco and Visa because there's a purity to them. Costco's is the purity of the way that the puzzle pieces fit together. in a way that is just artful.
00:17:05 Speaker_03
It's almost like a discovery of laws of physics, the way that Sol Price and Jim Senegal and the rest of the crew have sort of built that business over the years. It's just beautiful. It's like watching a ballet.
00:17:16 Speaker_03
I think that we likened it to that in the episode. Visa, on the other hand, is like the best operating leverage business. I mean, they have over 50% net income margins.
00:17:25 Speaker_03
They seem like they're locked in forever, you know, for better or for worse, as we described on the episode. But if you wouldn't ask someone like, what is the best at scale business model?
00:17:35 Speaker_03
It's probably Visa to do this sort of least work for the most free cash flow. You look at Costco, Not that much free cash flow, crap ton of work. It's almost like the complete opposite over in Visa land. Total opposites.
00:17:49 Speaker_03
But you asked me what my favorite episode was, and my favorite episode was LVMH. Because it was so not on my radar at all, and not something that I valued at all.
00:18:00 Speaker_03
And I scorned luxury before doing the research, and I didn't understand any of the history. And now I feel like a whole new world has been opened to me of understanding brand and value.
00:18:11 Speaker_00
And now you have a whole closet in your house filled with Louis bags.
00:18:15 Speaker_03
I do not. I do not. I only own one thing from one luxury brand in all my possessions. And actually, that item is not made by LVMH.
00:18:24 Speaker_00
Dude, you're just gonna leave it at that?
00:18:26 Speaker_03
Well, I want to reveal it on a 2024 episode we are planning.
00:18:30 Speaker_00
Oh, okay. All right. You heard it here first. There will be at least one luxury episode in 2024. Is that what you're telling me?
00:18:40 Speaker_03
Yes, absolutely. And I should say I own probably a lot of things that are LVMH but none that I would consider luxury. I don't mean like a Louis Vuitton suitcase.
00:18:47 Speaker_03
I mean like I have some Woodinville whiskey in the closet that LVMH somehow over the last few years came to own Woodinville whiskey. I think there's a lot of those sorts of things that where I've bought a lot of things at duty-free shoppers or.
00:19:00 Speaker_00
Yeah. You're talking about an item that is truly a luxury item, which is on a whole different rubric.
00:19:08 Speaker_03
It has a sense of place.
00:19:09 Speaker_00
It has a sense of place. It is not a premium item. You could look at it through a certain lens and say, this is utterly ridiculous. Correct. And like how on earth is this, you know, piece of raw material worth that?
00:19:23 Speaker_03
Right. I only own one of those things.
00:19:25 Speaker_00
Yes. Okay.
00:19:27 Speaker_03
I'm curious, would you describe anything that you own that way, other than things that are obviously that way? Other than some, like, Louis Vuitton suitcase that you have or something? I don't know what you have, but you've got some Rolexes.
00:19:38 Speaker_00
Yeah, I have some watches. But honestly, those are mostly from my dad. My dad is really into watches, and a few of those sort of have trickled to me over the years. I was thinking about it in preparing for this. I do not.
00:19:51 Speaker_00
And maybe part of that is having a two-year-old, which is not good for the health of the objects in your home.
00:20:01 Speaker_00
But I was thinking about that and I was like, you know, I would like to change that and have something that is meaningful on a different level beyond just what it physically is.
00:20:13 Speaker_03
I guess any jewelry would count as that. Oh yeah. And these things may not be branded the way that we're talking about luxury branding, but like a diamond engagement ring is inherently not premium, but luxury.
00:20:24 Speaker_00
Yeah. And I certainly, I would count my wedding ring amongst that.
00:20:28 Speaker_03
Or a real world NFT for the crypto folks out there.
00:20:30 Speaker_00
Oh boy. All right. Let's keep it moving here.
00:20:33 Speaker_03
Which, by the way, I think is actually the best way to think about diamonds.
00:20:36 Speaker_03
I spent some time recently looking into lab-grown versus mined diamonds, and there's sort of an interesting — I know we're on a diatribe here, but you asked me about my favorite episode, and LVMH came up, and here we are. So, there is a fixed supply
00:20:49 Speaker_03
of diamonds in the world, and there is a rate at which humans can mine them. So regardless of the intrinsic qualities of diamonds, it is a thing that can only come out at a certain volume.
00:21:02 Speaker_03
And largely, they go through the GIA to be identified with a serial number, and it actually gets laser-etched microscopically onto the diamond.
00:21:08 Speaker_03
So these things are verified that they came out of the ground, and you know the year they were mined, and you know where they were mined, and all that stuff.
00:21:14 Speaker_00
De Beers would be a fun episode to do someday.
00:21:16 Speaker_03
Totally. And the lab-grown diamonds are chemically identical, and it's a huge accomplishment of humankind that we've figured out how to do this. And on the one hand, they're identical.
00:21:26 Speaker_03
You look at them, you right-click, you download the JPEG, and like, these things are identical. But on the other hand, we are only going to get better, Moore's Law style, at creating lab-grown diamonds. And so they will asymptotically approach zero.
00:21:40 Speaker_03
Maybe not zero, but some number.
00:21:42 Speaker_03
Every year, presumably, they should get cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, whereas for something where there's a known finite supply of them, like GIA-certified, number-etched diamonds, there's a strong argument for that to hold its value, to the extent that you care about an engagement ring holding its value, but that will hold its value
00:22:00 Speaker_03
much longer, or much more durably.
00:22:03 Speaker_03
And truly, the best way to articulate it is, well, if you believe that this JPEG has value, but that other JPEG doesn't have value, and that other JPEG is the exact same bitmap as this one, like, why do you believe that?
00:22:14 Speaker_03
Oh, I see, it's got an on-chain location, and blah, blah, blah. It's literally the exact same thing with diamonds.
00:22:18 Speaker_00
All right, we're going to have to do a DeBeers episode at some point, because this warrants a full acquired deep dive, I think.
00:22:24 Speaker_03
Yep, I agree. David Rosenthal, what was your favorite episode this year?
00:22:27 Speaker_00
I was thinking about this. To not bury the weed, my favorite episode was Nike. But I don't think it was our best episode. I think our best episodes this year were LVMH, Costco, and Visa.
00:22:45 Speaker_00
And I've come to think that there's a sweet spot for you and me in terms of preparation and our sort of emotional states preparing for and leading up to an episode that leads to it being good. And I don't think Nikki was bad.
00:23:04 Speaker_00
I think it was perfectly acceptable. But my level of work preparation and emotional concern and stress heading into Nike was the peak that it has ever been about an acquired episode. Yeah, you were a wreck. I mean, how many books did you read? Over 10.
00:23:23 Speaker_00
And part of that was, it was the first episode of the season. Part of that was I went to Stanford Business School, which is the Knight Management Center. And this is Phil Knight.
00:23:34 Speaker_00
And I've never met Phil Knight, but I felt an extra debt of gratitude to him and obligation to do it right.
00:23:41 Speaker_00
And then part of it, too, was our friend David Litsky at Fast Company was trailing us, following along with us as we were making it, which was super cool. The article that he wrote was wonderful and very complimentary.
00:23:54 Speaker_03
Yeah, he's a talented writer.
00:23:56 Speaker_00
But all of that stew, you know, I felt like, okay, I really gotta bring it on this one. And what was interesting, that's why it was my favorite. I'm proud of all the work that I and we did for it, but I think I finally went too far.
00:24:12 Speaker_00
If you look at that episode, I was trying too hard.
00:24:15 Speaker_03
Hmm. Which may not come out in the final edit. I gotta be honest, if you go back and look, listeners, you may not hear it. I could hear it in the first edit.
00:24:25 Speaker_03
And certainly while we're recording here live, I mean, the number of things that we end up cutting is massive. But David, I completely agree with you. Until this year, I don't think I would have agreed with the statement
00:24:35 Speaker_03
that the quality of our episodes is governed just as much by our headspace the day of recording as it is by the quality of the research that we did. And now I believe that that is immensely the case.
00:24:47 Speaker_03
The flow of the episode, the excitement about the topic, the clarity of the points that we're trying to make, it's about treating it like Sunday if you're an NFL player and having a game day routine in the way that teaches you how to perform at your highest.
00:25:01 Speaker_00
This is going to sound incredibly self aggrandizing here, but this is how I've come to think about it. Like NFL Sunday, when we're going out there, I go back to our NFL episode at the beginning of the year.
00:25:12 Speaker_00
It takes me right back to playing football in high school. The games that I prepared the hardest for felt like I really put the effort in. Those were not the ones where I played the best.
00:25:23 Speaker_00
The ones where I played the best are when you play loose, you know, you go out there and you have fun and you enjoy yourself and you let it flow. And like it is the exact same with acquired episodes.
00:25:34 Speaker_03
All right. I wasn't going to share this, but now that we're on the topic. So at the top of my show notes document for every episode, there's two things written. One is. What should the listener take away from this?
00:25:45 Speaker_03
And I have some bullet points of make sure you nail these points and are clear about these things. And the other one is a one-liner that I have written that says, have fun, laugh, you're good at this. Mantras are powerful.
00:25:57 Speaker_00
And those things are so important, I think. Again, for folks who are listening who are or have been athletes, I suspect this will resonate. That's the past part of my life that it resonates with. All of those are important. Have fun.
00:26:13 Speaker_00
You're going to play your best when you're having fun, you know, laugh related to that. But also it kind of, to me, makes me think about your team, your teammates, you know, you and I, we're a team.
00:26:23 Speaker_00
And then the last piece, maybe it's the most important, but you're good at this. The sports psychology element, the self-confidence element is huge. I mean, who are we to think that we can go make these ridiculous episodes?
00:26:38 Speaker_03
Well, that's exactly the headspace that I get into that causes episodes to be bad. When we restart an episode, and listeners, we restarted this episode. We got 15 minutes in and we were like, eh, it feels forced. And we restarted it.
00:26:48 Speaker_03
I can guarantee you that the quality of this episode is already better. But yeah, that's the sort of negative self-talk that I start getting into. Who are you? What are your credentials? What qualification? Are you sure you looked under every rock?
00:26:59 Speaker_03
Those are the things that start ripping me apart if I start thinking them moments before recording.
00:27:04 Speaker_00
So that's why Nike is my favorite episode because I feel like this way of thinking about what we do finally clicked for me.
00:27:13 Speaker_00
It's like you got to like take yourself past the breaking point before you realize I might need to think about this differently.
00:27:19 Speaker_03
It is funny how doing the episodes and studying these people in these businesses teaches us things that we internalize in our own business. I would not have been able to describe Acquired as a luxury brand or a luxury product prior to LVMH.
00:27:34 Speaker_03
And luxury is probably still not right. It's probably, I don't know if it's ultra premium or if it's just like a prestige brand.
00:27:41 Speaker_00
I want to talk about this later in the episode, but my quick take is we are not a luxury product, but we share a lot of traits.
00:27:49 Speaker_03
Yeah, scarcity is kind of the biggest one. And that's a thing where I was unable to understand what to do with our scarcity before studying LVMH.
00:27:59 Speaker_03
But then afterwards, I sort of came to the realization of, oh, we should embrace the fact that we only have the throughput to be able to do one episode a month. And rather than trying to figure out how to scale that,
00:28:09 Speaker_03
There is a very fair path to owning it and staying a boutique little shop that's you and I and Steven, our wonderful editor who worked with us on a contract basis. And this is the team. This is what we do. And we can only make so much.
00:28:24 Speaker_03
And if we make more, the quality drops or we have to scale in some way that feels unnatural to us. And that's okay.
00:28:30 Speaker_03
rather than every other person in the podcast ecosystem that we had spoken with up until that point was, well, you have to figure out how do you layer that second show or how do you introduce more hosts or how do you get research assistance so you don't have to do that.
00:28:41 Speaker_03
And the boutiqueness is one of our greatest strengths. And it was something I think I was trying to run away from for a while. And now people ask what's going to be different for Acquired when you go full time, you're doing way more episodes.
00:28:54 Speaker_03
No, absolutely not. We're going to make the same number or fewer of even better episodes.
00:29:00 Speaker_00
We gotta be careful or we're gonna turn into Dan Carlin here and do one episode a year.
00:29:04 Speaker_03
Hardcore history, yeah. I know.
00:29:06 Speaker_00
So, The Luxury Strategy, which was part of our preparation for LVMH was reading this incredible book, The Luxury Strategy, which contains the 24 anti-laws of marketing. And I just wanna call out anti-law of marketing number 18.
00:29:22 Speaker_00
You just have this on your desk? Well, I put it on my desk ahead of recording this episode, but actually I've had it on my desk for large portions of this year. Anti-law of marketing number 18, do not relocate your factories.
00:29:35 Speaker_00
This is our version of that. We're never going to relocate our factories.
00:29:38 Speaker_03
And we happen to be in a particular business that scales extremely elegantly.
00:29:45 Speaker_03
with a word-of-mouth go-to-market, and a product that is infinitely replicatable, and a revenue stream that scales nearly in lockstep with the size of the distribution – and I say nearly is important, we should talk about nearly later.
00:30:01 Speaker_03
But we do have a business model that lets you grow the business indefinitely without compromising at all. And like if you are an LVMH, you do have to go build another factory in order to go serve more customers.
00:30:15 Speaker_03
There's not sort of that infinite scaling that can happen by the virtue of the internet and media on the internet.
00:30:21 Speaker_00
Yep. So to put a bow on the very easy question of what was your favorite episode?
00:30:27 Speaker_03
So far, you spent a lot of time not answering me.
00:30:30 Speaker_00
No, I did, it was Nike. Nike was my favorite. But I think the other part of the coin question of what was our best episode, I think Visa was our best episode. There were others that are more impactful.
00:30:41 Speaker_00
I think LVMH, that episode alone, I think completely changed Acquired. As did Costco. As did Costco. But Visa, I think, was the perfect blend of like an NFL Sunday gone extremely right. We prepared the right amount and we played least. We had fun.
00:31:02 Speaker_00
We laughed. We remembered that we were good at this. I think you can see it in the finished product.
00:31:08 Speaker_03
Yeah. It's the ones where we didn't put too much pressure on ourselves that I think came out the best.
00:31:12 Speaker_00
Yep. Which for me were LVMH, Costco, and Visa.
00:31:16 Speaker_03
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00:31:23 Speaker_00
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00:31:39 Speaker_03
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00:31:52 Speaker_00
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00:32:03 Speaker_00
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00:32:08 Speaker_03
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00:32:16 Speaker_03
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00:32:26 Speaker_00
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00:32:38 Speaker_03
Yep. So learn how you can put AI agents to work for your people by clicking the link in the show notes or going to servicenow.com slash ai-agents. So in January, David and I looked at each other and we said, we should stop doing specials.
00:32:56 Speaker_00
Specials is what we called the non-season episodes that we did on the feed until this year. And they were almost all interviews in practice, but anything that wasn't a canonical season episode.
00:33:09 Speaker_03
Yeah. And the reasons that we decided we wanted to discontinue them were, as David, you said, they're almost always an interview. And what is an interview? An interview is, uh, episode where you have a person who is not a part of you
00:33:24 Speaker_03
your enterprise, something you control, come on the show and say something that they very likely are going to say somewhere else too. So by their very inherent value of it, it is not an N of 1 product.
00:33:36 Speaker_03
Whereas when we make a Costco episode, that's an N of 1 product.
00:33:39 Speaker_03
And so no matter how good you do the interview, you are starting on your back foot in terms of can you create this diamond, this unique thing in the world the way that we can on a season episode.
00:33:53 Speaker_00
And also there are other people and other podcasters out there who are world-class interviewers. Yep. And they are incredible masters of their craft. And we were kind of looking at what we were doing and be like, why are we doing this too?
00:34:09 Speaker_03
Yep. And you can see it in the numbers. Every time we would do one, even with the biggest names, you know, these people where you're like, I imagine that really moved the needle for you. No, it didn't.
00:34:19 Speaker_03
Every single time we did a special, it had less downloads than the most recent season episode we did. Which is crazy! Never once was a special our biggest episode ever.
00:34:30 Speaker_00
To your point about analytics, that was telling us something and that was screaming at us in the face for years.
00:34:35 Speaker_03
Which is, when you make a unique product, that is the thing that people are here for. You have a format and a product that people want, so make that. don't go do something that's one click over in the commodity spectrum.
00:34:47 Speaker_03
And we tried all sorts of things. We tried to do the ACQ sessions where we really like, you know, try to make it feel more casual and we'd pour wine.
00:34:56 Speaker_03
And I think all the different specials we did and sessions we did and collabs we did, there's something to be learned from to bring into mainstream acquired.
00:35:06 Speaker_00
And what interviews now are.
00:35:09 Speaker_03
Yes. So here's where the lesson we learned around don't clutch your pearls too tightly. We swore him off. We said, you know what? We're done.
00:35:16 Speaker_00
Yeah. We had made the decision that there was never going to be another interview on Acquired.
00:35:21 Speaker_03
This is going to be a great year going forward where once a month we have this very pure thing that we do that's release a LVMH style episode. And then we have the opportunity to fly to Stockholm and interview Daniel Ek about Spotify.
00:35:36 Speaker_03
And then we get the opportunity to interview the CEO of the then $80 billion market cap Uber. And we would call each other and say, we said we weren't gonna do this, so what do we do?
00:35:46 Speaker_00
Well, what we had decided, you know, we have ACQ2, and we started calling that the Acquired Interview Show. Yeah, briefly, for like two weeks. Legitimately, this is where the rubber hit the road. We were going to put Daniel and Dara on ACQ2.
00:36:02 Speaker_00
And that was the decision, and we were ready to do it. Then we just kind of looked at each other and we're like, what are we doing here?
00:36:08 Speaker_03
Right. We are getting far too precious. And I think our preciousness has made Acquired what it is. I believe that. But you can get too precious. ACQ2 is awesome, but it has one tenth the distribution of Acquired.
00:36:20 Speaker_03
And that's great because it lets us play around with stuff and it lets us do follow ups to episodes where we don't feel like every single person that listened to this big episode would want to listen to the follow up.
00:36:30 Speaker_03
And we get to talk about up and coming companies. It's a lower stakes thing for us to do an ACQ2 episode, which is great to have as a part of our ecosystem.
00:36:39 Speaker_03
But it was really dumb, and I'm really glad we didn't go through with it to put the CEOs of Spotify and Uber there.
00:36:46 Speaker_03
And so the year went on, we had the opportunity to then interview Jensen as he's becoming the most highlighted CEO of one of the top five most important companies in the entire world.
00:36:57 Speaker_03
And then, of course, we get to spend time with Charlie Munger, gosh, a month and a half before he passed away, which is I feel so unbelievably lucky. Yeah. Well, we'll come back to Charlie.
00:37:07 Speaker_03
But it turns out with interviews, the answer is we still don't do interviews. We don't do specials. Acquired is what it is. Except for, you know, Charlie and Jensen. Well, I think there's a couple themes here, too.
00:37:21 Speaker_00
It all kind of stumbled into real time with Daniel and Dara. Those interviews actually happened on the calendar pretty close to one another. And then I think we kind of crystallized this by the time Jensen and Charlie happened.
00:37:34 Speaker_00
we still can do something unique and special.
00:37:37 Speaker_00
And in most cases, I don't want to say this will be every case going forward, but if you look at those four interviews that we did this year, they were all the CEOs or, you know, sort of protagonists in Charlie's case of companies that we had covered extensively on Acquired.
00:37:55 Speaker_00
And I think that to me is at least one example, there may be more, of how we can do something unique and special.
00:38:03 Speaker_00
And that's not to take away from all the other many masters of their craft out there like Patrick O'Shaughnessy and many others that are world-class interviewers, of which I don't think we are in a vacuum. But in cases where we've done
00:38:17 Speaker_00
a hundred hours of work, or in NVIDIA's case, in Berkshire's case, many hundreds of hours of work on these companies, I think we then can do something special with the protagonist that other people can't do.
00:38:30 Speaker_03
Right. This is something that my dad would always say to me when I was younger. He's like, I legitimately don't think I'm the smartest person, but I do think I'm the hardest working. And whether it was in school or whether in his career,
00:38:42 Speaker_03
the answer was grind for more hours and become the most knowledgeable to make the most informed decisions. And I kind of feel that way as an interviewer. I'm not Andrew Ross Sorkin, you know, plain vanilla walking into a pretty new subject.
00:38:54 Speaker_03
He's going to be just a lights out interviewer.
00:38:58 Speaker_03
But the place where I can be one of the best in the world is if I have done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of research on a topic, you know, we can start with Jensen on the Riva 128 and that's not how other interviews are going to start.
00:39:10 Speaker_03
And that was just obvious to us.
00:39:12 Speaker_00
I think that was your idea to do it. You were just like, of course, we have to start with the repo 128.
00:39:16 Speaker_03
Right. You can't know a story as well as protagonist knows the story, but try to get as close as you can.
00:39:20 Speaker_00
Sometimes I think we save ourselves from ourselves here, but I'm glad that we didn't cut these. And I think it can end up, well, we'll get to the stats in a second, but clearly they have ended up being something special.
00:39:32 Speaker_00
But the cool thing about the core thing that we do, our season episodes, is like, that is the natural byproduct. It's not like we need to go carve out time to do 100 hours of work to go interview Jensen or Charlie.
00:39:47 Speaker_00
It's like, no, no, we've already just done that as the core thing that we do. So to throw out the opportunity to continue doing those would have been really silly.
00:39:56 Speaker_03
Yep. So you might be wondering, Charlie Margaret was by far our biggest episode ever. Jensen was bigger than any previous season episode.
00:40:04 Speaker_03
Dara and Daniel were right around the ballpark of what our season episodes were doing at that point in time when we had interviewed them. We sort of figured out there is a style and a type of person where the episodes behave as N of 1 episodes.
00:40:20 Speaker_03
The sort of decay curves look similarly over time of people seeking them out in an evergreen way. We have seen just as many people 92 days later, which is what today is,
00:40:31 Speaker_03
referencing the Jensen interview that we would see referencing the Nike episode 92 Days Later. These things, if we do them right, stay just as evergreen. And so, you know, we want to stay as precious as possible about them. And so what does that mean?
00:40:45 Speaker_03
Like, how can we change Acquired's business to make it so that the answer is we don't do interviews on the main show unless, of course, it's an interview that we need to do on the main show. And
00:40:58 Speaker_03
after some early conversations we've had with some of the sponsors for next year, we just sell them differently. I think that was a key insight for us. We used to do, in a season, six main episodes and six specials.
00:41:11 Speaker_03
And we would sell them both and say, here's what you'll get in this period of time. And that's still how we sell the sponsorships for the season. You know that it's going to happen over six months. You know it's going to be about once a month.
00:41:22 Speaker_03
We'll give you a heads up as soon as we know the topic that we're going to be covering." And we would try to do the same thing with specials, and that drove us to create specials, which is entirely the wrong thing to do. Right.
00:41:34 Speaker_00
It was broken. It was slot-filling. You know, and again, not to take away from our guests, we had incredible guests, but the conversations themselves were slot-filled. We had slots that we needed to fill.
00:41:42 Speaker_00
That works for us with the season episodes because we're going to make an episode once a month. It's in our control. But with interviews, you can't slot fill if you want them to be special.
00:41:53 Speaker_03
If you're sitting around waiting serendipitously for a Charlie Munger or a Jensen interview to happen, which is basically what we've decided the strategy is for guests.
00:42:01 Speaker_00
You can't have pre-sold a commitment to your partners that you're going to do, you know, six of those every six months.
00:42:07 Speaker_03
Exactly. So stay tuned for how this will work in practice, but the way we're thinking about it for next year and some early conversations, seems like this is going to work, is you get the next three interviews.
00:42:17 Speaker_03
We promise you they're going to be world class, and we have no idea when they will come out. And they're probably going to come out next year, but we can't tell you much beyond that.
00:42:25 Speaker_03
And I think that to the extent that we find and continue to find great partners who want to work with us as sponsors in that way, that works really well to make sure that the content bar is where it needs to be, the audience is happy, and that we can frankly blow it out of the water the way that we do on the season episodes for our sponsors.
00:42:42 Speaker_03
So what does that mean for ACQ2? I should say ACQ2 next year is going to be so much better because there's all this inbound that we get for acquired that we've decided doesn't make sense on acquired.
00:42:51 Speaker_03
And what that means is we are getting crazy good guests for ACQ2. So it would feel silly not to point people toward that when I know it's coming next year. So yeah, I'm excited about that too.
00:43:01 Speaker_00
So I completely obviously agree with you, you know, on the implications for the business model and not slot filling and you can't predict when serendipitously you're going to get a chance to interview Jensen or interview Charlie.
00:43:14 Speaker_00
But this is our opportunity. What interviews do we want in a perfect world to do in the next, you know, set of time here for Acquired?
00:43:25 Speaker_03
Well, David, I think that's the right question. And I think the answer is sort of obvious. You just have to look at our episode list.
00:43:31 Speaker_03
I mean, who are the people that we feel like we've studied the way that we studied Jensen, but we haven't had a conversation with yet? I mean, it's Bernard Arnault. It's Morris Chang. It's Phil Knight. It's Bob Iger.
00:43:42 Speaker_03
I think there are people whose stories we know, but we don't know. And those would make for special interviews.
00:43:48 Speaker_00
Ben, I'm going to give you a hall pass on this one because, uh, you're literally one month into parenting and.
00:43:55 Speaker_00
Lord knows I have empathy and sympathy for you, but you missed the obvious one that I was teeing you up for there, which we're going to make our appeal. We're going to shoot our shot right here.
00:44:05 Speaker_00
Taylor, if you are listening or Travis, if you can make an intro or Travis, if you can make an intro, we'll maybe have you on for a little segment of it.
00:44:16 Speaker_03
We'll go to the Long Pond Studios. We can meet you, you know, anywhere at a posh restaurant around New York City.
00:44:21 Speaker_00
You're on the South American leg of the tour. You know, we'll fly down there, literally anywhere, anytime.
00:44:27 Speaker_03
Yep, absolutely. Um, all right, let's talk about Charlie. Let's talk about Charlie.
00:44:35 Speaker_00
First, we just have to, you know, we said in the episode, but again, say a huge thank you to Andrew Marks, who's become such a good friend of the show.
00:44:43 Speaker_03
I feel like Andrew sends us more research material than, like, Andrew is, like, a source for every episode. We're not just gonna write his name in the sources, but, like, ten sources from every episode are things that Andrew texts us.
00:44:54 Speaker_03
Like, have you found this? Have you found that? Have you found that?
00:44:56 Speaker_00
The minute that we solidify what the next episode is gonna be, we text Andrew and say, you know, like, all right, what do you got? And he's always got something.
00:45:04 Speaker_03
Not to mention he's got like a 20 company long request list with a reason for why each of those companies should be acquired episodes, kind of making the appeal. And so he always celebrates when we pick one off of his list.
00:45:18 Speaker_00
So big, big thank you to Andrew. He is literally the acquired MVP of 2023. It's not you. It's not me. It's Andrew. And also our other friend too, who knows who he is. Thank you to them for making that happen. I mean, it was just a, It was a life experience.
00:45:35 Speaker_00
I don't know what else to say. I can't believe we got to do it.
00:45:39 Speaker_03
There's a strangeness that comes, and if anybody who is listening to this is like a long-form journalist, like a New Yorker, writer, or something like that, or has written a book on a company, or maybe even like a PhD research dissertation, you sort of know this feeling where even though something happened in real life, you've done enough research about it where it feels like a story to you.
00:46:00 Speaker_03
And at some point, you meet the protagonist And you're like, oh, right, you're like a person in addition to being the main character of a story that I know very well.
00:46:11 Speaker_03
And that in Berkshire's case, there's a cult following of millions and millions of people who all know the story, who can all cite passages from, you know, uh, scripture.
00:46:23 Speaker_00
It is, it's like a religion.
00:46:25 Speaker_03
Charlie is a person, a wonderful person, in addition to being this character.
00:46:30 Speaker_00
And I think... A figure, yeah.
00:46:32 Speaker_03
Yeah, the surreality of the moment I think hit me the most when there was a question we asked Charlie and he responded, I'm not interested in being any more of a guru than I already am. Yes.
00:46:42 Speaker_03
And you could sort of see that even though it's worked so well for him to get so much of his wisdom to the masses, and he has, he and Warren both have been these incredible teachers their whole, you know, last 50 plus years.
00:46:53 Speaker_03
in addition to their main job of being great investors, capital allocators, operators, they're sort of these educators on the side.
00:46:59 Speaker_03
But that education and universe that they've created has blown up to the point where I think it weighs a little bit heavy, at least on Charlie.
00:47:08 Speaker_00
Yeah.
00:47:10 Speaker_03
It's almost like the burden he carries to get his wisdom out is that he has to sort of be treated as a guru or a character in a story rather than just a person.
00:47:23 Speaker_00
And I guess... I have no idea what Charlie would say to that, obviously. But I think for people who find themselves in those positions, you know, Steve Jobs was that, for sure. Obviously, Warren and Charlie are that.
00:47:40 Speaker_00
Jensen may be on his way to becoming that.
00:47:43 Speaker_03
NAVAL has become that.
00:47:44 Speaker_00
Yeah. Taylor Swift is that, a hundred percent.
00:47:48 Speaker_03
It's almost like the Batman thing.
00:47:49 Speaker_03
What's the line from Batman Begins where he's talking about the sort of frailness of being a person, and then when he becomes Batman, he says, as a symbol, I can be incorruptible, I can be everlasting, something elemental. It's that sort of idea.
00:48:00 Speaker_03
Totally.
00:48:01 Speaker_00
All these people are both people and symbols. And I'm just imagining, once you become a symbol, you kind of have two options. You could bemoan it, or you could embrace it.
00:48:16 Speaker_00
And I think Charlie would say, look, it's going to weigh on you no matter what, no matter which one you choose. There's no going back. It's going to weigh on you. And so you might as well embrace it.
00:48:28 Speaker_03
Yep. One other behind-the-scenes point to make, which I think listeners might find interesting on these four – Daniel, Dara, Jensen, and Charlie – they all were these massive lead time interviews. They don't just get coordinated a couple weeks before.
00:48:43 Speaker_03
And the story behind each of them was Charlie was a maybe six-month thing. It was once we started digging into Costco, Andrew suggested, hey, what if you interview Charlie for a follow-up?
00:48:54 Speaker_03
Jensen, I think we originally reached out to NVIDIA before we started our NVIDIA Part 1 research almost two years ago and said, hey, would Jensen — and this was a very different time for Acquired.
00:49:08 Speaker_03
We thought the dream is to interview Jensen, not the dream is to go learn as much as we can about NVIDIA and tell the story ourselves. And we reached out and said, can we interview Jensen?
00:49:16 Speaker_03
And even though we had a good friend of the show who was able to introduce us to someone on their executive team, we got a canned response of, it's very busy, this sort of thing.
00:49:24 Speaker_03
And it wasn't until like we did the work and then we made part one and part two where then it caught NVIDIA's attention and the folks there were like, geez, we should do something together.
00:49:33 Speaker_03
And it still took another year to figure out exactly what the thing was to do together and when. And same thing with Daria at Uber. We met Actually, a friend of the show, Brad Gerstner, had his investor day for Altimeter, and I met Dara there.
00:49:47 Speaker_03
And I think it took probably nine months after that to figure out a good time to, you know, on the earnings calendar, on the PR calendar, when it could actually make sense to do the interview.
00:49:57 Speaker_03
The way it happened with Daniel was we said... Daniel was the quickest. What did we say? Like, next time we're in Stockholm, we'd love to do it. And he was like, oh, yeah, next time you're here, let's do it.
00:50:06 Speaker_00
Well, it turns out of all those four cast characters, only one has a professional podcast studio in his office. And that would be the one who runs a podcasting company.
00:50:16 Speaker_03
So we happened to find ourselves in Stockholm, which that actually was a highlight for me this year. I know it was only three days, David, but that crazy. I mean, we had three beautiful days in May in Stockholm. What a gorgeous, gorgeous city. The run.
00:50:29 Speaker_03
We had a couple of runs around the city while we were there and just made sure to kind of take it all in.
00:50:34 Speaker_00
And the people at Spotify were so nice hosting us. I mean, just rolled out the red carpet.
00:50:39 Speaker_03
Yep. By the way, I just want to say, I know a lot of people are lambasting Spotify's podcasting strategy. I think people are entirely missing the forest through the trees on calling that a failure. Completely agree.
00:50:53 Speaker_03
I think Spotify in their music business has gotten to scale and has no potential to create a high operating leverage business.
00:51:04 Speaker_03
They're always going to be giving the same percentage of the profits to the record labels who have an unbelievable amount of bargaining power over them. So the question is, what do you do next? Audiobooks is a good bet. Podcasting is a good bet.
00:51:17 Speaker_03
Something where you can eventually gain operating leverage. And the fact that they did the huge Rogan deal, they bought the Ringer, they bought Gimlet,
00:51:25 Speaker_03
Well, if you look at the dollars and cents today, you're like, geez, they've spent a lot of money, but they haven't generated a lot of profit from podcasting yet. They totally bootstrapped their way to become the scale player in podcasting.
00:51:38 Speaker_03
So to the extent that there is a big pile of money waiting to be the scale player in podcasting, they're well positioned to make it, given the half billion dollars or three quarters of a billion dollars that they spent on content.
00:51:50 Speaker_03
They now have bootstrapped to scale.
00:51:52 Speaker_00
That was the price of entry and like we see it in our analytics. Spotify is the majority of consumption of acquired out there.
00:52:02 Speaker_03
No, it is our largest single player, but I don't think it's over 50% yet.
00:52:07 Speaker_03
But one stat that's interesting is from Spotify wrapped for podcasters, they make a wrapped to give to you in addition to the ones to distribute to your audience, is that 76% of the people who listen to Spotify, acquired on Spotify, found us this year.
00:52:21 Speaker_03
That is crazy on platform growth.
00:52:24 Speaker_00
And I think the corresponding stat is we grew something like 176% on Spotify or something like that off an already decently sized base.
00:52:35 Speaker_03
Yeah. So, I mean, in many ways, I'm predisposed to think podcasting is more interesting and important in the world than it is. But if you sort of write off the idea that Spotify will ever make decent margins in music. They needed to make another bet.
00:52:52 Speaker_03
This feels like a pretty good bet. This and audiobooks.
00:52:55 Speaker_00
Yep. I think the other side that we see of it is, this will lead into some of our, you know, discussion of acquired the franchise in 2024. Podcasting is a great business. I do not doubt that it is a very valuable, very large market for them to be in.
00:53:10 Speaker_03
Yep. If you can figure out how to make being the scale player translate into lots of profits, which no one has done yet.
00:53:15 Speaker_00
Well, no one has done yet. And the previous scale player almost like a did not start, you know, like, uh, didn't even run the race.
00:53:23 Speaker_03
Apple. Yeah. Which as we've talked about before, we are immensely grateful for because it enabled this open free podcasting medium that we have today, which is to our advantage.
00:53:33 Speaker_00
Yes. All right, listeners, our next sponsor is a new friend of the show, Huntress. Huntress is one of the fastest growing and most loved cybersecurity companies today.
00:53:44 Speaker_00
It's purpose-built for small to mid-sized businesses and provides enterprise-grade security with the technology, services, and expertise needed to protect you.
00:53:53 Speaker_03
They offer a revolutionary approach to managed cybersecurity that isn't only about tech, it's about real people providing real defense around the clock.
00:54:02 Speaker_00
So how does it work? Well, you probably already know this, but it has become pretty trivial for an entry-level hacker to buy access and data about compromised businesses.
00:54:13 Speaker_00
This means cybercriminal activity towards small and medium businesses is at an all-time high.
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So Huntress created a full managed security platform for their customers to guard from these threats.
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This includes endpoint detection and response, identity threat detection response, security awareness training, and a revolutionary security information and event management product that actually just got launched.
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Essentially, it is the full suite of great software that you need to secure your business
00:54:42 Speaker_03
plus 24-7 monitoring by an elite team of human threat hunters in a security operations center to stop attacks that really software-only solutions could sometimes miss.
00:54:53 Speaker_03
Huntress is democratizing security, particularly cybersecurity, by taking security techniques that were historically only available to large enterprises and bringing them to businesses with as few as 10, 100, or 1,000 employees at price points that make sense for them.
00:55:08 Speaker_00
In fact, it's pretty wild. There are over 125,000 businesses now using Huntress, and they rave about it from the hilltops.
00:55:18 Speaker_00
They were voted by customers in the G2 rankings as the industry leader in endpoint detection and response for the eighth consecutive season, and the industry leader in managed detection and response again this summer.
00:55:30 Speaker_03
Yep. So if you want cutting-edge cybersecurity solutions backed by a 24-7 team of experts who monitor, investigate, and respond to threats with unmatched precision, head on over to huntress.com slash acquired or click the link in the show notes.
00:55:45 Speaker_03
Our huge thanks to Huntress. Okay, David, let's talk about acquired the franchise.
00:55:52 Speaker_00
Yeah, well, to kick things off on that front, I feel like you had a little more to say on our discussion earlier about is growth good? I mean, certainly this is relevant.
00:56:02 Speaker_03
Yeah. So my thinking on this has gotten simpler, which is basically I am extremely open to fully saturating the niche of smart people who care about what makes businesses work and great technology is successful and durable in the world.
00:56:20 Speaker_03
And I think last year, again, I was being too precious about like, I don't think it's good for our lives if we become too famous. I mean, a byproduct of podcasting is you're not on video that often.
00:56:31 Speaker_03
So you actually do get to stay less famous than YouTubers or less visually recognizable, which is good.
00:56:36 Speaker_03
I just kind of generally believe recognizability is fun until you get to a certain level and then it's bad and then you can't put the genie back in the bottle and your life's horrible. And I would like to not become that.
00:56:47 Speaker_03
But if we can keep doubling and doubling and doubling and it turns out the set of people who like studying business history and being thoughtful about it and can write us with little tidbits saying, oh, I happen to think about it this other way and have thoughtful responses and want to be a part of the acquired community.
00:57:03 Speaker_03
If that turns out to be 5 million people or 10 million people, great. That's only goodness. But I think my view on growth is we have a natural governor to our growth, which is
00:57:15 Speaker_03
the universe of that set of people is a fixed number and I'm just not interested in discovering a second market outside of that.
00:57:22 Speaker_03
So to the extent that we can stay true to making the stuff that we love to make and serving that group of people, awesome.
00:57:28 Speaker_03
And I just don't ever want to like, you could say lower the bar or create some different product or whatever, but to appeal to a different mass audience, that part is not really interesting to me.
00:57:38 Speaker_00
Yeah, this has become more evident to me too in some of our episodes this year, like particularly the Porsche episode that we did with Doug DiMiro have blown up on YouTube. YouTube, let's completely put acquired aside for a second.
00:57:56 Speaker_00
My feelings about YouTube are like it is an amazing platform. It is an incredible gift to the world that YouTube exists.
00:58:05 Speaker_00
And one of my carve outs later in the episode is going to be the QB school on YouTube, which is a former NFL quarterback who makes amazing detailed breakdowns of what is actually going on every week on your like favorite teams. Oh, that's awesome.
00:58:19 Speaker_00
It's incredible. Like the fact that that is available and accessible for free.
00:58:23 Speaker_03
I'm literally going to subscribe to that right now.
00:58:25 Speaker_00
Oh, it's amazing. JTO Sullivan. We'll talk more about it later. Go subscribe if you care at all about football, even if you don't. That said, for our episodes that have gotten big on YouTube, if you go look at the comments, it's awful.
00:58:41 Speaker_00
It is 100% not even the same universe of experience that the acquired Slack community is.
00:58:47 Speaker_00
And like this kind of crystallized for me what you're talking about of like anybody who is the type of person who really cares about knowledge, understanding these great businesses, these stories we tell and learning from them,
00:59:00 Speaker_00
Come on in like we want as many people of those in the world The youtube comment world out there is not what we want, right?
00:59:08 Speaker_03
And i'm not trying to be pretentious I'm not saying like you must have thought about it as much as I have in order to be a part of that No
00:59:15 Speaker_03
I feel like this has been an eight-year journey for us, and for me, a 20-year journey of learning about what makes these technologies and these businesses become powerful forces in our world.
00:59:25 Speaker_03
Anyone who is anywhere on that journey, including far past you and I, David, on that journey, I would love to have a relationship with, either two-way through the Slack, or even if it's just one way, through people listening to Acquired.
00:59:37 Speaker_03
So I'm not saying, like, I just want to appeal to the people who are like, ah, here's a gotcha on, there actually is an eighth power. It's not that. It's the curious, thoughtful people who are not in the YouTube comments of the Porsche episode.
00:59:50 Speaker_00
This had never happened to any of our episodes before. Until this year, we were not exposed to this part of the internet.
01:00:00 Speaker_03
Well, nothing had like algorithmically blown up. Yes. And reached a lot of people quickly. The only way anybody had really heard of Acquired until this year was their friend told them.
01:00:10 Speaker_03
And that is always going to be a really high quality way to grow your audience. But if an audience grows quickly, it's like the masses just enter and you get who shows up.
01:00:20 Speaker_00
Yeah. I think for both of us, this really kind of clarified what we really want and meant by this. we're a little wary about growth. Like, it's not that we're wary about growth. It's that we want to keep this, you know, place that's about knowledge.
01:00:36 Speaker_03
Yeah. Well, and last year, I think we were talking about, we were getting a little bit shaky about the impact on our business from growing the show, because getting larger wasn't equating to growing the size of our revenue.
01:00:52 Speaker_03
And it also was creating problems for the classic sort of startup and growth stage companies that had been our longtime sponsors, where we were going to them and saying, OK, the audience is four times bigger than when we worked with you two years ago.
01:01:07 Speaker_03
let's have a conversation about what it should cost to sponsor the show. It was just like an immovable object meeting an unstoppable force. There just wasn't anything to be done.
01:01:16 Speaker_03
And so we've had to get creative in figuring out what do we do to continue to grow the business
01:01:22 Speaker_03
Well, it doesn't have to be commensurate with the audience, but the audience growing should make acquired a more viable platform for larger sponsors, deeper partnerships, ways that we can sort of increase both the size of our business, but also like the durability and importance in the world of our business.
01:01:41 Speaker_00
Yep. So as we started experiencing some of the growth that we talked about, we realized that we'd kind of hit a scale now where acquired is a viable platform and partner to new sponsors that we can work with.
01:01:56 Speaker_00
And just to talk about what those are for season 14, starting in January, two of our three sponsors are going to be JP Morgan, specifically JP Morgan's payments division and service now. both of which are incredible companies.
01:02:13 Speaker_00
We are super excited to work with them. But in both of those cases, we knew those companies and knew those people there for several years now.
01:02:24 Speaker_03
Right. We should say the teams that have decided to partner with us from each of those companies have been longtime acquired fans. And we've gotten to know over the course of years and years and years.
01:02:33 Speaker_03
And the answer has sort of always been, hey, we should do something together. And then, like, we talk about it for a while. And then the answer is always kind of like, okay, you're sort of this like little niche, maybe there's something to do.
01:02:43 Speaker_03
And now the conversation is very much like, oh, wow, you show up in the world in a big way with an important set of people.
01:02:50 Speaker_03
And you're now in this category that we can totally work with you as a durable partner that we want to like build this deeper relationship with. And especially now that we're in our eighth year,
01:03:01 Speaker_03
It's a very different thing to be partnering with Acquired than it was when we were in our third year. It's not like a scrappy startup thing. It's a trusted entity in the world.
01:03:11 Speaker_00
Yep. It would have been odd for Fortune 500s to work with us before recently.
01:03:19 Speaker_00
And now starting to work with their teams, how a JP Morgan thinks about their brand and their positioning and their kind of whole set of marketing activities is a completely different animal than how startups and, you know, earlier stage tech companies do.
01:03:37 Speaker_00
Yep.
01:03:39 Speaker_03
And it's an intensely coordinated effort with a calendar that is already full by the time you're finishing 2023. 2024 is largely known. There's a whole set of events. There's a set of campaigns that are going to happen at different times.
01:03:51 Speaker_03
And these things are adaptable. But my gosh, the level of foresight and planning that we've gotten to work with from those teams has just been like a whole different animal. than what we're used to.
01:04:02 Speaker_03
And we love the nimbleness of small companies and that enables us to do special things together.
01:04:07 Speaker_03
And sort of our fun task for next year, which I'm excited to unveil some of the stuff we're doing, will be to bring that custom thing that we're able to do with these small companies and create native content for the medium and do other collaborations with them as a company.
01:04:25 Speaker_03
For example, the way that we invest in our sponsors or the way that we speak at their conferences and things like that. to bring that to large Fortune 500 enterprises. And that's such an amazing dance.
01:04:37 Speaker_03
The way that these marketing organizations are able to figure out, okay, can we talk about this partner of ours? And in what way can we talk about it?
01:04:44 Speaker_03
And how much leeway can we give Ben and David to natively work in an acquired theme from six episodes ago and trust them that in this episode, it's going to come across right on air
01:04:54 Speaker_03
It takes a very special marketing department to be able to behave the way that the Vantas and the modern treasuries and the vouchers of the world do while stewarding a 20, 30, 100 year brand.
01:05:07 Speaker_03
And a few other things we've got up our sleeve, I think the goal is to be able to continue to work with these sort of recent product market fit, you know, series B-ish companies that we've always worked with.
01:05:18 Speaker_03
So between the back catalog, between interviews, we will figure out ways that we can still work with those companies because frankly, Those are the types of companies that David and I love using for Acquired.
01:05:29 Speaker_03
I mean, we're customers of Vouch and we use Modern Treasury. We like playing with it. We like following the founders on their journeys. We like having the founders on ACQ too, so we can kind of learn about how they're building their companies.
01:05:41 Speaker_03
We also like getting the exposure to be able to invest. So it's awesome to be able to build these really tight relationships with those companies, especially when they're founded. Like I just keep going back to
01:05:50 Speaker_03
Dimitri and his co-founders coming up to us at our very first live show after they had come out of YC and telling us about this tiny little modern treasury at the time. And you just look at the behemoth amount of money that they move now.
01:06:02 Speaker_03
There are dozens of companies in the acquired ecosystem that we have relationships with that we want to be able to continue to be a partner to and just figure out the right way to structure that.
01:06:13 Speaker_00
Yeah. And just as importantly, dozens, if not more than dozens that are going to be coming up over the next set of years.
01:06:20 Speaker_03
Yeah, David, what you're getting to here is now that we're both full-time on Acquired, we finally have the opportunity to do our investing together and then do it in a way that's uniquely Acquired and that is sort of native to Acquired.
01:06:30 Speaker_03
And so there's no big announcement or anything, but that's the thing to share with the Acquired community is I've been writing these little angel checks into probably 10-ish of our sponsors at this point and ACQ2 guests and companies we've gotten to know.
01:06:43 Speaker_03
And we're finally going to be able to kind of do that at scale and do it together in a way that We're not spending a lot of our time hearing early stage pitches or anything like that.
01:06:52 Speaker_03
But for companies that we already know well, David and I are going to join our investing forces and invest more in those growth stage market leading tech companies.
01:07:01 Speaker_00
Yep. And as an early example of this, our great friends over at Vanta and their CEO, Christina, have been very, very kind guinea pigs for us. So Vanta has been a longtime partner of the show. We've helped grow their business.
01:07:16 Speaker_00
And last year, kindergarten ventures, the early stage angel list fund that I run with my friend nap, we did a $10 million SPV in Vanta series B. And that was a great test of, can we invest in a market leading company and put meaningful capital to work?
01:07:34 Speaker_00
So that's a playbook that we're now going to be able to run more often.
01:07:38 Speaker_03
more and together and specifically as a part of acquired.
01:07:42 Speaker_03
I just have this funny thing that's happened so much over the last two, three years, which is a company is raising great up round from, you know, one of the best few investors in the world in technology companies and says, would you like an allocation?
01:07:57 Speaker_03
I can give you one or two or $10 million in this big growth round. And I, you know, write some little angel check and like, that's been great, but it's time to do more with that opportunity.
01:08:08 Speaker_00
Yep. This is all part of you coming full time and it's time. It's time for all this to happen. Yep.
01:08:14 Speaker_03
It's time. So that's sort of the state of what we're thinking about for investing, which we'll put into action early next year and sort of the direction that our sponsorships have been going to.
01:08:24 Speaker_03
And we should say we're excited to welcome back for next season in the third slot. Friends of the show pilot and Vanta are splitting slot number three. So first three episodes are going to be Vanta. Second three are going to be pilot and
01:08:35 Speaker_03
I think we figured out a nice balance to be able to work with Fortune 500s as sort of a scale platform and also to be in business both investing and on a sponsorship basis for their go-to-market with growth stage companies.
01:08:47 Speaker_00
All of which we are super excited about. But you and I are super clear with each other and we want to be super clear listeners with all of you too. The show is the most important thing. Acquired is the show. That is what you and I love doing.
01:09:01 Speaker_00
That is why you and I are full-time podcasters now. And all of our effort is going to go into the show. Right.
01:09:11 Speaker_03
what we're most excited about. But it's also, if you just think about the mongerism, you know, you show me the behavior and I'll show you the incentives, it's literally the thing that makes it all work.
01:09:20 Speaker_03
If you look at the acquired flywheel, it is produce unbelievably high quality deep dives
01:09:27 Speaker_03
on these companies and try to create some of the deepest business content in the world in a very, very approachable, fun, conversational way and share the learning journey that we're on with everyone.
01:09:38 Speaker_03
And like you said a minute ago, we're really clear with each other. Like, I feel like that mantra comes up on our phone call once a week or something and it's like, the quality of the episodes is all that matters.
01:09:48 Speaker_03
And, you know, we just spent ten minutes talking about how we're evolving the franchise and working with Fortune 500s and, you know, how we're going to be doing more investing together and all this stuff.
01:09:58 Speaker_03
The only thing that matters, that drives all of it, is quality of episodes.
01:10:02 Speaker_00
Yes. So on that front, we've got some fun stuff planned for next year. Episode one, we are already deep in research for.
01:10:12 Speaker_00
We're not going to give it away what it is, but it is a new category for Acquired, which is... I don't think we've ever touched it in all 280 episodes or whatever.
01:10:23 Speaker_03
And it's one of the largest categories of spend for most countries' GDPs in the world.
01:10:28 Speaker_00
Yeah, I think gotta be probably every country's GDP in the world.
01:10:33 Speaker_03
Depending on their level of dysfunction. Yeah. Yeah. Good point.
01:10:37 Speaker_00
Anyway, we're already deep in the research. The story itself, like industry aside, financials aside, you know, market cap aside, this is a century long, incredible story too. So I'm really, really pumped.
01:10:52 Speaker_03
It turns out there's a lot of them out there. We often get the question, are you afraid you're going to run out of episodes to do?
01:10:58 Speaker_03
No, everywhere we look, there's like some new fascinating multi-generation business that you'd never expect could have thrived through all these times that they have and have five unique, amazing vignettes to tell through their whole history to today.
01:11:12 Speaker_03
Like, as long as we want to keep doing this, there will be fuel to keep doing it.
01:11:17 Speaker_00
This year it was brands and luxury and retailers. It'll be, you know, this other thing hopefully next year, but like we look around the corner and there's a whole new category of companies to cover. Yep. So we're pumped for that.
01:11:32 Speaker_00
Ben, you have already spilled the beans that a another luxury luxury brand is in the works.
01:11:37 Speaker_03
Absolutely.
01:11:38 Speaker_00
Absolutely. What else we got cooking?
01:11:42 Speaker_03
We'll hit some big tech, we have to. It feels like an obligatory nod. We'll hit something in the sort of entertainment, gaming, streaming world.
01:11:53 Speaker_03
And we could keep naming categories, but one listener question that we got that I think is worth chatting about here is, how do we handle current events? because there are lots of episodes that would be very appealing to do.
01:12:05 Speaker_03
For example, the dozens of requests we got two weeks ago or three weeks ago for OpenAI after the boardroom drama. We very much have moved away from current events, and I think that is in part because of what we talked about earlier.
01:12:20 Speaker_03
that we want to create N of 1 content, and the way to create the most possible commodity content is to try to cover the current news cycle that literally everyone else is covering concurrently.
01:12:32 Speaker_03
I think that's a way to get completely drowned out in the noise, create something that's not special, and create something that, even if you blow it out of the water, has a shelf life in this world of about eight hours.
01:12:43 Speaker_03
And so we have decided to move as far away from that as possible.
01:12:48 Speaker_03
And the other reason, I think, is a little bit our disposition, where, David, when you and I are looking at something brand new that's unfolding in real time, I think we've really started trusting our gut that there's probably more here than there seems to appear on the surface.
01:13:03 Speaker_03
And years ago, I don't think we felt that. I think we thought, Uber's going public, cover Uber. Even three years ago, Airbnb is going public, cover Airbnb.
01:13:12 Speaker_03
And there was an acquired way to do it where most of the episode could actually focus on the last 10 years and only a little bit at the end was focused on the last few months. But the more current an event is, the less evergreen value
01:13:26 Speaker_03
that it will have, and the more likely it is that you could really blow it. I feel super self-conscious that we interviewed Sam Bankman Freed, and we're not investigative journalists.
01:13:37 Speaker_03
We weren't going to spend the time to try to unfold and dig up, hey, is this all legit? It's like Sequoia had just invested a huge amount of money. Everyone and all the possible signals had validated this person in this company.
01:13:51 Speaker_03
It was seemingly enormously free cash flow positive, and yet
01:13:55 Speaker_00
Yeah, we regret doing it.
01:13:56 Speaker_03
We totally regret doing it.
01:13:58 Speaker_00
And we're going to try our best not to set ourselves up to do something like that again in the future.
01:14:02 Speaker_03
So the question becomes, what should you do? And what we are structurally well set up to do is these huge retrospectives where the story is written and the story is known and it's about really synthesizing it and applying it to today's world where
01:14:17 Speaker_03
there is just no way that we are ever going to do the sort of investigative journalism and frankly like investment diligence, often with private information, that you need to do to get a real-time story right.
01:14:31 Speaker_03
It is structurally impossible for us, so swear it off. I think that's the answer.
01:14:35 Speaker_00
I would even go so far as to say, you know, something that I've taken from especially the last couple of years of Acquired is the story is always deeper than you think.
01:14:47 Speaker_00
And so let's even say we were set up to do investigative journalism and deep diligence that we would then share with the public on a company. In real time. In real time, I still think it's impossible to get it right.
01:14:59 Speaker_00
I mean, look at the best VCs out there. They are, at least on the diligence and investing side of the equation, making these calls in real time and the very best of them only get it right, what, 20% of the time at most, you know, 30% of the time.
01:15:13 Speaker_00
I don't think it is possible to do.
01:15:17 Speaker_03
I mean, fraud is different.
01:15:19 Speaker_00
Yes. I'm not talking about fraud. I'm just talking about getting the story right. Like, the story of Uber that we did on, you know, IPO day, back when we did that episode. Like, that was not the full story of Uber.
01:15:31 Speaker_03
Yeah, to revisit the SBF interview in particular, I haven't listened to it in a long time. I do think we've generally had our wits about us enough to always sort of be question askers in terms of like, hey, this seems really crazy.
01:15:47 Speaker_03
How did that happen? And you and I have sort of never been the types to be like, everyone should be extremely excited about this, and we urge you to go get involved with this now.
01:15:55 Speaker_03
I always sort of chuckle when we say the not investment advice, but that's more my demeanor. I truly mean it. I was like, hey, I've done a certain amount of work on this. I'm going to tell you what I learned.
01:16:05 Speaker_03
And also, I am not recommending you act on this in any way ever. And I think that fortunately, our disposition especially among some of the crypto and Web3 mania, was a little bit more of that.
01:16:17 Speaker_03
But we've learned lessons from that, and those lessons are you get to choose the games you play, and we don't need to play the current mania's game.
01:16:26 Speaker_00
Totally and as much as I want to take as a kind personal compliment all the things you're saying and apply it to myself too, but I really got to give credit to you.
01:16:35 Speaker_00
I think this is a big part of the demeanor that you bring in your personality to the show like you are a optimist as we both are and we've talked about a lot on the show. But a skeptic. Well, in the big picture, you're an optimist. Yeah.
01:16:51 Speaker_00
And so I think this is one of the things that makes us a really good team, like in terms of the actual goal and what we're trying to do here and acquired and what it is and what we want it to be.
01:17:02 Speaker_00
We are 100% aligned and you do a really good job keeping us in check on this front.
01:17:08 Speaker_03
Thank you. And if we didn't have you, then we would just tell stories of old retailers and old oil companies that, you know, carry no risk associated with them.
01:17:17 Speaker_00
Hey, maybe we should do that because those are our biggest episodes.
01:17:21 Speaker_03
Yeah. Thank you. I'll take the compliment. And you do need both. You need someone who's staying attuned to like, maybe this new thing everyone is talking about is a breakthrough, interesting thing.
01:17:30 Speaker_03
And you also need the, hey, let's pay attention to history. And I think someone asked a question in the Slack, do you consider yourselves journalists? And I, if anything, because we've gotten the question, are you analysts? Are you journalists?
01:17:44 Speaker_03
We're certainly not reporters. But I think on that spectrum, we've shifted much more toward historians than journalists.
01:17:51 Speaker_03
I don't ever expect that we are going to get a story right about something in flight, but hopefully given, you know, a couple months to prepare, we can get the story right about something that's happened over a long period of time with a lot of perspectives where people are willing to share everything they sort of know since the hatchets are buried.
01:18:07 Speaker_03
And like, does anyone have the story right on what happened in the OpenAI boardroom right now? I don't think so.
01:18:12 Speaker_00
I don't think so either. You know, reflecting on this too, I think, ironically,
01:18:19 Speaker_00
Moving to this role as our and, you know, my over the past couple of years official, you know, job function and identity of being historian versus venture capitalist investor has made me a much better investor. Yeah, ain't it the truth.
01:18:37 Speaker_00
And for me specifically, when I was only an investor or investor was the primary thing, everything we were just talking about were both strengths and weaknesses for me. I would fall in love with companies, deeply in love with companies.
01:18:53 Speaker_00
And obviously, for people who listen to us, I still do this with acquired episodes with the companies we cover. And that was a great strength, too.
01:19:00 Speaker_00
Like you can really help companies and founders can really feel like you are on their team and aligned and pulling with them. And also just purely in terms of making the right investments.
01:19:11 Speaker_00
Having a bit more arm's length objectivity and perspective helps. Shifting my focus to the show certainly has made me a better investor.
01:19:22 Speaker_00
Like I just look at like the investments that I've done and I've been more active in the past few years than I was when I was a VC and you know you and I are going to be even more active together going forward.
01:19:32 Speaker_00
I never would have expected this but it has really helped me.
01:19:36 Speaker_03
Turns out knowing history is very helpful in analyzing the present.
01:19:39 Speaker_00
Yes. And just having this other thing be my obsession has allowed me to have a little more arm's length.
01:19:47 Speaker_03
It's also very nice because what it does is it puts most things in your too hard pile. Like the fact that your main job isn't to go pick early stage companies.
01:19:55 Speaker_03
Like when the whole world is your too hard pile because you need to research an acquired episode, only the no brainers end up actually grabbing your time. A hundred percent.
01:20:04 Speaker_03
The no-brainers that don't take up weeks and weeks of your time to decide if you should do it or not are the ones that end up actually becoming the investments that you do.
01:20:14 Speaker_03
And especially when you can sort of take something you've learned from history and apply it to the present. I think that's the David Rosenthal sweet spot.
01:20:22 Speaker_03
It's funny, marketing in particular, I think doing Acquired has made me such a more savvy marketer.
01:20:29 Speaker_03
Perhaps the most useful that I am in boardrooms now is being like a reality check on are you actually reaching people, A, in a medium that's going to convert to what you want them to do, and B, with a messaging that people will care about.
01:20:44 Speaker_03
Because most of the time, most people are creating lots and lots of copy and work product that nobody cares about at all. And that goes for podcasts, and that goes for startups.
01:20:56 Speaker_03
And I think breaking through and creating something where people know, Oh, I should pay attention to this. That's still so rare.
01:21:04 Speaker_00
Yeah, we're having this discussion, you and me on zoom a couple months ago with a world-class investor and the sort of frame that we put on it was taste.
01:21:15 Speaker_03
Oh, this conversation. Yeah.
01:21:17 Speaker_00
You can't really teach it. You certainly can develop it, but this is a version of that.
01:21:23 Speaker_03
Yeah. Okay. What's next on the docket?
01:21:26 Speaker_00
Well, keeping on this topic of audience Q&A, a couple weeks ago, we got this kind email from listener Martin from Scotland. In it, he had a list of questions for us and said, if you have time to answer a few of them, I would really appreciate it.
01:21:46 Speaker_00
And we looked at it and we said, Gosh, these are awesome questions. Should this be the entire episode? This should be our holiday special. So thank you, Martin. We are going to dive into a bunch of them here, and they are just fantastic.
01:21:58 Speaker_00
So number one, what is the book or books you've given most as a gift and why? Or what are one to three books that have greatly influenced your life? Ben, you want to go first?
01:22:10 Speaker_03
Yeah, I am not actually a huge book gifter. I love the practice, I just never remember to do it. It's great when people are able to do that. I think a huge one for me is Psychology of Money.
01:22:20 Speaker_03
There's a recency bias on it, and we mentioned Morgan Housel at the top of the show, good friend of the show, great human. I mean, truly, I massively changed the way that I personally invest. Yeah, me too.
01:22:31 Speaker_03
Based on that book, and the way that I just think about spending my time and family and demeanor throughout the day. Another one is this book, and I haven't read it in probably 12, 14 years. It's called The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. Oh, yeah.
01:22:46 Speaker_03
Tim Ferriss loves this book, right? Yeah. I read it as a part of a college class, a cool class at Ohio State called Personal Creativity and Innovation. And one of the mechanics in the book is called morning papers.
01:22:57 Speaker_03
And the rule is you must write three pages stream of consciousness before getting out of bed in the morning.
01:23:04 Speaker_03
And it is so cool because it flushes out all the crap from your head so that you can go and have a clean slate to start the day and you're not wasting your time processing.
01:23:13 Speaker_03
You're not like wasting CPU cycles in your brain processing something and ruminating on something that you really just need to get out, get on the page, and then you can focus on other things.
01:23:22 Speaker_03
Or perhaps focus on that thing, but at least now you have a little bit of clarity on it because you've written.
01:23:27 Speaker_03
I should do it more often, but I think it's this amazing practice and kind of like a, I hate the phrase, but life hack that I remember feeling like it really worked for me while I was doing it.
01:23:38 Speaker_03
David, while you give your answer, I'm going to turn around and look at my bookshelf to find a third one.
01:23:42 Speaker_00
I have a bunch more books to talk about later in the episode, but the one that I've gifted the most is a book called Transitions by William Bridges, which was first given to me by Ben and my good friend Mark in Seattle.
01:23:58 Speaker_00
Ben, have I given you this book?
01:24:00 Speaker_03
I don't think so. You've mentioned it.
01:24:01 Speaker_00
Okay. We need to rectify this right away. Watch your Amazon deliveries. I'm going to send it to you.
01:24:06 Speaker_03
It's not like anything's randomly showing up to my house three times a day from Amazon right now.
01:24:10 Speaker_00
Right. You'll find it again in like six months or so when you're cleaning out your basement. This book is a super cool concept. It was written, I think, in 1980. And the idea, it's about major transitions in your life.
01:24:24 Speaker_00
Could be a good transition, like having a baby, welcoming a new family member. Could be a bad transition, like a death in the family or career-related, losing a job, something like that.
01:24:36 Speaker_00
But the thesis of the book is that when this happens in your life, and it will many times, It's gonna sound a little gruesome, but you need to sort of kill your old self and be reborn as your new self.
01:24:50 Speaker_00
That sounds super woo-woo, but if you actually think about it, it makes sense. Your identity, who you thought you were before a major transition, it has to change.
01:25:02 Speaker_00
There is no way around it, and you'll go through the five stages of, you know, denial, anger, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. This book is a great sort of way to streamline that process.
01:25:13 Speaker_00
But you have to accept that that you that you were before is no longer and then you can create the new you. And I found it incredibly helpful both for big challenges in my life and for great positive stuff like having a baby.
01:25:29 Speaker_03
Hmm. All right. That's awesome. I will watch my front doorstep. My third one is a classic, Thinking Fast and Slow by Kahneman and Tversky.
01:25:39 Speaker_03
It's just everything you think you know about the way your brain perceives the world and how you make decisions is wrong.
01:25:45 Speaker_03
And reading it doesn't make you get any better, but at least makes you aware of how wrong your decision-making is, unless you pay unbelievably close attention and write down exactly why the decision is being made and look at all the data, and even then you'll probably get it wrong.
01:25:59 Speaker_00
Then there is a very fun Easter egg that is gonna be buried later in this episode for you to find related to this book recommendation. Ooh, sweet. So Ben and listeners can go on a little treasure hunt. Great. All right, next question.
01:26:14 Speaker_00
What purchase of $200 or less has most positively impacted your life and recent memory? This is a super easy one for me. No brainer, my Zojirushi hot water heater.
01:26:26 Speaker_00
for people who don't know about these, and I think this is probably most of the world outside of Japan. This is a device that sits on your kitchen counter and keeps several gallons of water at a set temperature constantly. I am a huge tea drinker.
01:26:43 Speaker_00
I use this thing four or five times a day and have for the past decade plus. It is amazing. I set it at 195 degrees. I drink green tea every day. I re-steep my teapot constantly throughout the day and like it is unquestionably
01:27:00 Speaker_00
Made my life better and probably will extend my lifespan by like several years from drinking tons of green tea every day.
01:27:06 Speaker_03
Whoa. That's awesome.
01:27:09 Speaker_00
Zojirushi is the brand. We'll link to it in the show notes. Zojirushi is the brand. It's a Japanese company. Everybody in Japan has one of these things.
01:27:17 Speaker_03
Awesome. Mine might be a pair of Nike shoes. So living in Seattle, it rains all winter, or at least it's wet all winter. And there's a particular pair. I'm going to look up what it actually is so that if you want to buy it, you can.
01:27:33 Speaker_03
Called the Nike Men's Pegasus 4 Gore-Tex. And the Gore-Tex is so good. It makes winter running possible. And they even have a few of the colorways that are not like totally insane so that you can kind of wear them as everyday sneakers.
01:27:52 Speaker_03
But I basically wear them all day, every day in the winter. And it makes me far less afraid to go out in the world because I don't like having wet feet.
01:27:59 Speaker_00
Amazing. Okay, next one is the Tim Ferriss question. I don't think anybody's ever asked us that before. If you had a gigantic billboard anywhere with anything on it, metaphorically speaking, what would it say and why?
01:28:15 Speaker_00
Maybe the most random fact about me, I was a French literature major in college, particularly a 17th and 18th century French literature expert. I'm hardly an expert, but that's what I majored in in college.
01:28:30 Speaker_00
And something that has stuck with me from then, and the older I get and the world we live in becoming more the world it is, has stuck with me more and more, is the last line of Voltaire's Candide. Il faut cultiver notre jardin.
01:28:47 Speaker_00
We must cultivate our own garden. And especially today, like there's just so much in the world that you don't have any control over. The only thing you have control over is your garden and cultivating your own garden. And for us, that's acquired.
01:29:02 Speaker_00
And for me, that's acquired in my family and, you know, maybe some other things over time, but just focus on what is in your control and be great at that and be good at that. Be great and be good. at those things, and that is what you can do.
01:29:17 Speaker_00
At least, those are the words that I have come to live by.
01:29:19 Speaker_03
I love that. I actually don't have my own answer to this question. There's someone else that I know that has an answer to this question that I quite like, so I'm just going to recant their story, but I should go find some words to live by.
01:29:31 Speaker_03
A good friend of mine, his dad had a saying when he was growing up that he would always remind his kids, just be kind. hey, whatever the thing is, just be kind.
01:29:42 Speaker_03
You know, someone might be being a jerk to you and, you know, they deserve some kind of repercussion, but you should just be kind and certainly the world will figure out a way to deal with this person's action at some point.
01:29:54 Speaker_03
And, uh, the thing my friend did is at some point as his dad was getting older, he asked him to, um, write down the motto on a piece of paper and sign it. And, uh, he went and got a tattoo on his back of just be kind signed by his dad's name.
01:30:06 Speaker_03
And I love that.
01:30:07 Speaker_00
I now know who you're talking about. That's amazing.
01:30:09 Speaker_03
Yeah, I just think that's the coolest. I often remind myself of that, of there's almost nothing to be gained by me exuding anything but kindness in this moment.
01:30:18 Speaker_03
And it doesn't mean let someone roll all over you, but it does mean just always realize that, you know, it's kind of the Michelle Obama thing of when they go low, we go high. You going high is never going to hurt you in the long run.
01:30:29 Speaker_00
There's never any reason not to be kind. Right. I love that. That's so good. What is one of the best or most worthwhile investments you have ever made? It could be an investment of any type.
01:30:41 Speaker_03
cultivating the relationship with my wife, hands down, 100%. And the second best is cultivating the relationship with you, which has led to so many things that have made my relationship with my wife and building a family possible.
01:30:52 Speaker_03
And there is no ifs, ands, or buts about that. The house I'm standing in is, thanks to Acquired, the lifestyle I enjoy is 100% Acquired.
01:31:00 Speaker_03
The fact that I wander around all day listening to audiobooks, the thing that it's done to my demeanor and my personality, truly the life that myself and my family enjoy is because of what you and I have built and thank you.
01:31:13 Speaker_00
Oh, I have the same answer. I actually didn't write down Jenny, but I should thank you for reminding me. Jenny, I love you. Yeah, ditto. Nothing more to add. And probably therapy.
01:31:27 Speaker_03
That's probably the second.
01:31:29 Speaker_00
Yeah, I agree. I started doing weekly therapy. I'd done it off and on before, but I started doing it weekly, committing to that this year, and it's just immensely helpful.
01:31:38 Speaker_03
Yep. And if you feel like it's not helpful, just switch therapists. You'll eventually find someone who's helpful for you.
01:31:42 Speaker_00
Yep. All right. What is an unusual habit or absurd thing that you love?
01:31:48 Speaker_03
I eat a Starbucks spinach, feta, and cage-free egg white bite wrap every single day, and I have for years and years and years, and I actually go to Starbucks and buy them still in the package cold.
01:32:01 Speaker_03
I buy them like 10 at a time, and then I'll just make them every morning at home.
01:32:04 Speaker_00
We were in the airport flying back from LA. We were at LAX after interviewing Charlie Munger. And you got one of these at the Starbucks at LAX. And I've known this about you for years.
01:32:18 Speaker_00
And I just kind of looked at you and I was like, Ben, I think you have eaten more spinach feta wraps than any other human being in the world. And you thought about it and you were like, yeah, I think that's right.
01:32:30 Speaker_03
Because I think I've consumed probably close to 3000 of them.
01:32:36 Speaker_00
This is amazing. This is the very best Ben Gilbert trivia that exists. When did you start?
01:32:43 Speaker_03
Uh... I'm gonna guess around ten years ago. I mean, I think it really ramped, like, seven-ish years ago. So maybe 2,000, 2,500. But... Wow. Yeah, pretty much every day. Breakfast or lunch.
01:33:00 Speaker_00
Speaking of special, unique interviews that only we could do, I don't even need to finish that sentence. We're just going to leave it. One day.
01:33:10 Speaker_03
Yeah.
01:33:11 Speaker_00
Okay. I'm not even going to answer that because I can't top that.
01:33:15 Speaker_03
In the last five years, what new belief, behavior, or habit has most improved your life?
01:33:20 Speaker_00
Yes. I was going to say adding weekly therapy this year and related to that, just listening to my instincts in particular, my physical reactions to things. Like I've found like, you know, it takes a while to train your instincts.
01:33:34 Speaker_00
So like, I don't know if I just listened to my instincts and followed my instincts when I was 25 that that would have been the right thing, but
01:33:42 Speaker_00
I'm pretty dialed at this point on like what's right for me and I find that I have physical reactions in my body to things and like listening and tuning into that usually is the right way to go.
01:33:57 Speaker_03
Yep, I like that. And just being more aware of it. I think you have a good sense of that too. If somebody is a 1% huckster, I notice you get like physically uncomfortable and try to create distance between you and them.
01:34:09 Speaker_00
Yes. That's just me. I don't know if everybody has that.
01:34:12 Speaker_03
I think mine is a thing that I'm still working on, but the amount that I have done it has dramatically improved my life. Be more present. Be a better listener.
01:34:23 Speaker_03
The answer is almost always tune in more to the person that you're talking to and really understand them. And I think listen harder is usually the way to better understand what someone else around you wants.
01:34:35 Speaker_03
And it's often not what they're saying, it's what they're feeling. My therapist regularly uses the phrase, it's about the feelings, not the content.
01:34:42 Speaker_03
And if you can figure out how to be present, listen better and meet someone else at their feelings level and figure out how do I, you don't even have to make their feelings feel better because they might feel fine, but how do I tune into you emotionally and not try to just have a conversation about the content you're saying, you're much more likely to both have a positive outcome and have a better rest of your day.
01:35:06 Speaker_00
Dude, you're going to crush parenting.
01:35:10 Speaker_03
Well, easier said than done.
01:35:11 Speaker_00
Yeah, right. Easier said than done when, you know, you're on hour like three of intense feelings, shall we say. What advice would you give a smart, driven college student about to enter the quote unquote real world and what advice should they ignore?
01:35:29 Speaker_03
Oh man, let's see. Some advice I gave like three years ago that I really deeply believe in is harvest when everyone else is harvesting and build skills when there's no harvesting to be done.
01:35:43 Speaker_03
And in particular, this person had the opportunity to go work at, I think it was a big consulting thing, and make good money first year.
01:35:51 Speaker_03
And they were thinking about doing that or working for a nonprofit as their first job, because their heart was in the right place. They just wanted to do good-for-the-world work.
01:36:01 Speaker_03
And I was like, we're in a weird time where I don't know when it's going to end, but everyone's making stupid money right now. Just like, while there's harvesting to be done, go participate in that. And you should build the best foundation you can.
01:36:15 Speaker_03
But I promise you, there will be a time where this job opportunity is not available to you.
01:36:22 Speaker_03
And you will look back at a few years of making a small salary in your first few years out of school and kind of wish that you had built a little bit more of a foundation because I just think this time is going to end.
01:36:33 Speaker_03
And like it sort of flies in the face of be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful.
01:36:40 Speaker_00
Yeah, this is kind of be greedy when others are greedy and, you know, build when others are fearful.
01:36:45 Speaker_03
And be mindful that you're in this temporary moment, but like when there's opportunity to harvest, harvest.
01:36:51 Speaker_00
Yeah. Reflecting on the 2020 to 2022 timeframe, that is a huge takeaway for me. Bill Gurley has for years said this, you got to play the game on the field.
01:37:04 Speaker_03
Well, yeah. Benchmark's very good at that.
01:37:07 Speaker_00
Yes. Yes. Yes, they are. My answer, I would just repeat what I said on the Art of Investing podcast that we went on a few months ago, which those guys have just built such a great show. I mean, they're teachers. They've been teachers for years.
01:37:22 Speaker_03
Yeah. Rick and Paul are investors and capital allocators and, you know, great partners to the people that they work with. But like even their demeanor in one on one conversations is that of a learner and a teacher. Yeah.
01:37:33 Speaker_00
So wonderful. What I said there literally to college students was, uh, both the following your own path has never been more rewarding in this world that we live in and never been harder. Like there's so much pressure out there.
01:37:49 Speaker_00
Social media, everything else about the world we live in. There's so much pressure to conform and that makes standing out and following your own path that much more valuable. So harder and valuable.
01:38:02 Speaker_03
Yup. People are underrated. In my harvesting comment, it was interesting that what I did was to describe two job opportunities.
01:38:10 Speaker_03
I think there's another way to make decisions, which is surround yourself with, if you're an ambitious person, with the most intelligent,
01:38:18 Speaker_03
people you possibly can who are the closest to ground zero for your industry, be where the interesting thing is with the people who are the best at it.
01:38:26 Speaker_00
This is the Marc Andreessen. I totally go to Denny's.
01:38:30 Speaker_03
Yes. Always go to Denny's.
01:38:32 Speaker_00
Always go to Denny's.
01:38:34 Speaker_03
And they can't just be smart. They have to be like unbelievably trustworthy people worthy of your time and partnership. And that's the harder thing, I think, to suss out over time. That's hard advice to give a college student.
01:38:44 Speaker_00
Yeah. I don't think those two things are at odds.
01:38:46 Speaker_03
I don't think they're at odds either, but your circle of opportunity gets smaller when you require more constraints, when you require both of them.
01:38:55 Speaker_00
All right, in the last five years, what have you become better at saying no to? Distractions, invitations, etc. What new realizations and or approaches helped? Any other tips?
01:39:06 Speaker_03
Oh man, David, there's a thing that you do that I'm so much worse at, which is you never feel compelled to respond. You never feel like somebody else can give you a task to do. It's not my most, uh, flattering quality.
01:39:21 Speaker_03
But it's the thing that allows you to give energy to the people in your life that matter the most to you.
01:39:26 Speaker_03
That's the thing that I've long been jealous of, is, like, I'm very okay with somebody emails me a form email that I've never heard of them or their name. It's, like, very easy to archive that.
01:39:38 Speaker_03
It's harder when it's, like, somebody that I met three years ago that I really enjoyed getting coffee with. And now I have eight of those in my inbox. And I just I want to at least say I don't have the bandwidth for this right now.
01:39:51 Speaker_03
But like you do those eight times and suddenly two hours have gone by. It's actually taken away some of your your energy and your life force. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And you do it to me sometimes.
01:40:00 Speaker_03
So like I sort of know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of it. But like, you have a remarkable tendency to truly wake up every morning and say, what actually is important and needs to get done?
01:40:09 Speaker_03
And you don't do the other stuff, and it's kind of okay if that has a little bit of collateral damage.
01:40:15 Speaker_00
Yeah. I was gonna say the same thing, and you said it for me. Like I said, this is not my most flattering natural tendency, but as I've thought about this over the years, what I've come back to is, I reach out to lots of people.
01:40:33 Speaker_00
How do I feel if I don't get a response to all of those? I feel fine.
01:40:39 Speaker_00
And, you know, I assume that folks that I reach out to have something going on, they're busy and especially now having kids, it's just like I get it for them and I get it for me more. It's like, you know.
01:40:50 Speaker_00
there's nobody more important to me than my daughter, nobody, my wife, you know, like, and you, you know, like, okay, outside that circle, like you are my most important people. And there's only so many hours in the day.
01:41:01 Speaker_00
It's like a version of you got to put your mask on before helping others. It's like, I got to put those relationships on before others.
01:41:10 Speaker_03
Yep. And everything's a trade-off. Like in a vacuum, sure. You should give your time and your life force to everyone, but you have a finite amount. And so it's a priority thing.
01:41:18 Speaker_00
Yep. Okay, last one. When you feel overwhelmed or unfocused or have lost your focus temporarily, what do you do? What questions do you ask yourself? This is so easy and this is the perfect one to end on. We go make a great acquired episode and
01:41:35 Speaker_00
This has been such a gift to me in my life because up until we started doing Acquired and up until Acquired became my full time job three years ago, I didn't have anything that I could control like that.
01:41:50 Speaker_00
I don't know what I would have answered to that question. Like so much of everything was out of my control. When you're a venture investor, you don't control anything.
01:41:58 Speaker_03
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. What do you mean? Just go do a good deal. And that way in 10 years, you'll know if it was good or not.
01:42:04 Speaker_00
Right. Exactly. We're so lucky now that we have this thing that we do that we can do.
01:42:11 Speaker_00
And we're good at, and we know how to do where no matter how bad things get, or, you know, no matter what's going on, we can just go in a lab and like, we know we can make a great episode.
01:42:22 Speaker_00
And we also know it's the best thing we can do, no matter how good or bad things are going. It's always the best thing we can do.
01:42:29 Speaker_03
It's an interesting derivation that I want to take this down. I've had this life advice that I've been thinking about to give to my son when he's old enough to understand life advice, which is not right now.
01:42:40 Speaker_00
Oh, you're gonna have to wait a while.
01:42:42 Speaker_03
You'd scream in my face. And which is interesting that he can listen to all of this. I don't think he ever will, but it's crazy that there's like hundreds of hours of his dad talking Like, do you ever think about that? Yeah.
01:42:54 Speaker_03
That our kids will get to watch us sort of grow up. I guess there's not video until year five or so, but still, like, listen to us sort of form who we became, assuming that we do this for decades and decades to come.
01:43:05 Speaker_03
But one of the pieces of life advice, and David, I was telling you about this on our walk in LA up Runyon Canyon, we were down there interviewing Charlie, was that when you're a young person, you should try to become singularly productive.
01:43:21 Speaker_03
And I mean productive in the economic sense, that you are able to soup to nuts within your control, make something of economic value, and put it in the world in a way that you own the design, engineering, creation, marketing, distribution, monetization.
01:43:43 Speaker_03
And like, everybody shouldn't do that. Like the corporation is a great structure that enables people to work together in a creative way to produce an output.
01:43:52 Speaker_03
But your life is way better if you have the capability to singularly produce something on your own. And then it's always your choice of how much stuff outside your control you want to let in.
01:44:06 Speaker_03
You might be a singularly productive individual who then goes on to be Craig Federici and, you know, run all of Apple software. but then it's your choice. You're not reliant on a bureaucratic structure for you to thrive and politic inside of.
01:44:20 Speaker_00
This is another one of those paradoxes, I think, in that the way the world works today, this has on the surface kind of never been harder. Organizations are bigger, things are more complex, things are more interdependent. The idea that
01:44:34 Speaker_00
You could as a person and especially a young person be able to do that is hard to fathom. And yet it's also never been more true than ever. All you need is an internet connection and you can find and learn some version of this.
01:44:48 Speaker_03
Yep. It's pretty wild. We want to thank our longtime friend of the show, Vanta, the leading trust management platform.
01:44:58 Speaker_03
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01:45:07 Speaker_03
Vanta takes care of these otherwise incredibly time and resource draining efforts for your organization and makes them fast and simple.
01:45:14 Speaker_00
Yep, Fanta is the perfect example of the quote that we talk about all the time here on Acquired, Jeff Bezos, his idea that a company should only focus on what actually makes your beer taste better, i.e.
01:45:25 Speaker_00
spend your time and resources only on what's actually gonna move the needle for your product and your customers and outsource everything else that doesn't. Every company needs compliance and trust with their vendors and customers.
01:45:36 Speaker_00
It plays a major role in enabling revenue because customers and partners demand it, but yet it adds zero flavor to your actual product.
01:45:43 Speaker_03
Vanta takes care of all of it for you. No more spreadsheets, no fragmented tools, no manual reviews to cobble together your security and compliance requirements.
01:45:50 Speaker_03
It is one single software pane of glass that connects to all of your services via APIs and eliminates countless hours of work for your organization.
01:45:59 Speaker_03
There are now AI capabilities to make this even more powerful, and they even integrate with over 300 external tools. Plus, they let customers build private integrations with their internal systems.
01:46:09 Speaker_00
And perhaps most importantly, your security reviews are now real-time instead of static, so you can monitor and share with your customers and partners to give them added confidence.
01:46:18 Speaker_03
So whether you're a startup or a large enterprise, and your company is ready to automate compliance and streamline security reviews like Vanta's 7,000 customers around the globe, and go back to making your beer taste better, head on over to vanta.com slash acquired and just tell them that Ben and David sent you.
01:46:33 Speaker_03
And thanks to friend of the show, Christina, Vanta's CEO, all acquired listeners get $1,000 of free credit. Vanta.com slash acquired.
01:46:44 Speaker_00
Well, for Ben, you're in my traditional extended carve outs to end the holiday special. I have a special family one that I want to start with, if that's okay. So my brother-in-law, Dave, Jenny's sister's husband,
01:47:00 Speaker_00
Dave is the most beloved member of our entire family, including my daughter, who no doubt about it, loves him way more than mom and dad. He's the best. He, until this year was a early employee at a venture backed startup here in San Francisco.
01:47:17 Speaker_00
He changed jobs and he joined a company called mill this year. He was telling me about the company. I was pretty skeptical, honestly, to start. Mill was founded by Matt Rogers, who Matt was Tony Fadell's co-founder at Nest back in the day.
01:47:33 Speaker_00
And Mill is the Nest thermostat version of a compost bin. It is an internet connected compost bin.
01:47:42 Speaker_03
Oh, I have heard of this. Yes.
01:47:45 Speaker_00
And, uh, at first I was like, okay, Dave, I'm glad you're passionate about this. I can't imagine how many people out there really need an internet connected compost bin. Then he joined the company and he said, this is really great.
01:48:00 Speaker_00
So I was like, okay, I'll support the family. We'll get one. This thing is freaking awesome. I was totally wrong. I mean, obviously this is, you know, I just sort of, you know, luxury good. I mean, it's not a luxury good.
01:48:12 Speaker_00
It's a compost bin, but like, it's a premium good. I did not realize how much I needed this thing for basically my entire adult life. I have had fruit flies in my kitchen on and off in the compost bin.
01:48:28 Speaker_00
And if I didn't have fruit fly, you know, it's a compost bin, like, you know, it's compost in your kitchen. This thing roasts your compost overnight. and is internet connected. It runs overnight. You put all the food scraps in there.
01:48:43 Speaker_00
It roasts and churns it. It turns it into chicken feed. And every morning it gets fully roasted, which means no smell, no mess, and it absorbs. This thing is like a black hole. of compost. It's a big bin.
01:48:58 Speaker_00
We will go weeks as a family of just putting everything in there. No emptying, no going to the garbage, no smell, no nothing.
01:49:05 Speaker_00
And then when it gets full, your app tells you, you put it in a box, they send you a bunch of boxes like in a bag in a box, you send it off to them and they sell it as chicken feed. This is like the most brilliant thing ever.
01:49:17 Speaker_00
I was so skeptical and now I'm 100% comfort. Mill.com. I'm not just saying it because Dave's my brother-in-law. Actually, this is the best thing I've bought this year. Did you or did you not get yours for free? No, I paid for it.
01:49:29 Speaker_00
I didn't get any discount.
01:49:30 Speaker_03
This is not in any way an endorsement. No, there's no pay.
01:49:33 Speaker_00
The only connection I have to the company is that my brother-in-law joined them and I thought it was a really bad idea.
01:49:41 Speaker_03
All right.
01:49:42 Speaker_03
I'm trying to decide if like your problems are real problems at this point or if you're like you've gotten so comfortable in life that you're like solving these like really... I recognize that I just recommended an internet connected compost bin.
01:49:55 Speaker_00
But it really is awesome.
01:49:57 Speaker_03
But it's a great one. I mean, yes, I recognize the value of good gadgets. I've been using a June oven for the last six months. Also life-changing. You might be like, why do you need a small oven instead of your big oven?
01:50:08 Speaker_03
And why does it need to be on the counter instead? Spinach feta wraps. Oh, every morning. Spinach feta wraps in the June. It's perfect. Okay, I have a litany of carve-outs.
01:50:17 Speaker_00
Go for it.
01:50:17 Speaker_03
I'll save my baby-related ones for later. My TV show, my wife and I just binged watch, is like holy crap good. Some of the best TV I've watched in a long time. Very different genre than Succession, but like Succession level quality.
01:50:33 Speaker_03
It's called Silo on Apple TV. It is excellent. It's based on a book, maybe book series, and the 4TV adaptation is just very good.
01:50:43 Speaker_03
Dialogue, the cinematography is good, the sets are really impressive, the premise is just beautiful and so simple, and the premise is, this is going to be spoiler free. there is a civilization of humans that exist in a silo, like a big silo.
01:51:00 Speaker_03
I don't want to say the exact number of people because some might consider that a spoiler, but like, you know, a civilization in a silo. Okay. On Earth or in outer space? Presumably on Earth is the premise, and it is all about
01:51:17 Speaker_03
people trying to figure out what's going on, because it opens with this idea that at some point it will be safe to leave the silo. We don't know when that day will be, but we know that day is not today.
01:51:29 Speaker_03
and it's a whole civilization of people living in a silo.
01:51:34 Speaker_00
This sounds like a great premise.
01:51:36 Speaker_03
That's the setting, and I'm giving no plot details about, like, what then transpires, but it's awesome. And it's great sci-fi.
01:51:43 Speaker_00
Ooh. As you know, I'm not a TV person, but that is up my alley.
01:51:48 Speaker_03
The female lead is the woman from the most recent, the last two Mission Impossibles, who's a really good actress. And who else is in it? The woman from The Office, Rashida Jones, is also in it. It's a good show. Highly recommend it.
01:52:03 Speaker_03
She's Quincy Jones's daughter? Is that right? I think that's right.
01:52:06 Speaker_00
Yeah. Super cool.
01:52:08 Speaker_03
So that is awesome for less good TV, but still very entertaining. Part of our paternity leave maternity leave has been, uh, watching alias. Neither of us watched it back in 2002. And it's like a JJ Abrams, early JJ Abrams, Jennifer Garner's the lead.
01:52:24 Speaker_00
You've already done this as a carve out, but I like the recarve out.
01:52:27 Speaker_03
It's fine. It's great. I mean, it gets worse as the seasons go on, but, uh, seasons one, two, and three are great. Very worth watching. A product that I've been loving, I just got some new Warby Parker glasses.
01:52:40 Speaker_03
I believe they're made out of vinyl, but the frame is called Amari. A-M-A-R-I.
01:52:48 Speaker_03
They are much lighter than any other glasses frames that I've ever gotten, and it's like totally game-changing to feel like they're sort of just floating on your face all day.
01:52:57 Speaker_03
Some might view them as not as stylish as some of the more stylish options, but they're my at-home glasses for sure.
01:53:03 Speaker_00
One of your carve-outs I picked up recently, Hoka slides. I actually didn't get the slides. I got the Aura, the recovery shoes. Hoka slides. So good. Yeah. I got the same technology in the kind of more shoe, more enclosed form factor.
01:53:18 Speaker_00
I think they're also called the Auras, O-R-A. So great. Best house shoes I've ever had. Per your recommendation.
01:53:25 Speaker_03
Well, happy to recommend. Another one is a feature of a product that I found a couple days ago that is friggin' insane.
01:53:32 Speaker_03
So I've had this thing where as iPhone cameras have gotten better and better, the computational photography, like what Apple does to photos makes them look a certain way. And I've sort of gotten used to that way that photos look.
01:53:47 Speaker_03
And now that I'm using the big camera again, because we have a baby, I've gone back to, I'm using the Alpha 7Cs and this kind of like,
01:53:55 Speaker_03
very flexible lens that can either be a wide or a zoom lens that we're going to use actually for some upcoming interviews next year to get a tighter shot on the subject.
01:54:04 Speaker_03
I've been using that and I've been feeling like, God, these images are so grainy. Like basically anything that I shoot indoor feels like it has this really terrible grain.
01:54:14 Speaker_03
And you look and of course it's like the super high ISO, but the iPhone does so much smoothing that I've like forgotten that film grain is a thing. And so Lightroom shipped this unbelievable ML-powered denoise feature
01:54:28 Speaker_03
I found out about it because Nilay Patel was just on the talk show with John Gruber, and he is right to say it totally pegs your GPUs while you're using it, but it is pure magic.
01:54:38 Speaker_03
You open up Lightroom, you select the photos, you can even select ones that don't seem noisy to you, and you come back and it's like... Unless you crank the setting way up, they look totally realistic.
01:54:48 Speaker_03
It doesn't look overly AI-ed, but your photos just all get, like, magically way better. So huge kudos to the Adobe team. I've been so impressed with everything that they're cranking out on the AI side.
01:54:59 Speaker_03
Like, I think they're the enterprise company that is probably the best at rapidly commercializing these generative AI advancements. This one is immediately useful for me for everything that I shoot, not with my iPhone.
01:55:12 Speaker_00
Yeah, this is, uh... We did that ACQ two episode with Chris from runway like this sector application of AI in image and video. We're only just scratching the surface. The surface is already unbelievable and like I just can't wait for what's coming.
01:55:31 Speaker_03
Yep, totally agree. I think I may have made this a carve-out at some point, but I want to re-highlight it because it's been at least 12 months, because I remember reading it over Christmas last year.
01:55:42 Speaker_03
It's an article by Derek Thompson called The Eureka Theory of Everything is Wrong. Yes, this is awesome. It's so good. I just re-read it.
01:55:50 Speaker_03
It's just such a pleasant reminder that it's not about the idea, it's about the implementation, and it's often about the unsexy distribution work.
01:55:58 Speaker_03
The article highlights a number of different instances where we know the famous inventor, but we don't know about the heroic effort made by governments around the world to actually roll things out like vaccines and things that are, you know, a huge part of the public good.
01:56:12 Speaker_03
I highly recommend reading it if you're in for sort of a perspective-changing read on what is important to advance society forward.
01:56:22 Speaker_00
Love it. All right, I'll jump in with a couple before we get back to you. First, a book that I alluded to earlier in the episode, The Luxury Strategy by Jean-Noël Kapferer and Vincent Bastien. This book was a core part for both you and me in LVMH prep.
01:56:40 Speaker_00
And it's so good. It's so counterintuitive and worth reading for anybody who has a brand, any company that has a brand, which is everybody, even, you know, like enterprise software, SaaS company, you have a brand, you should read this book.
01:56:56 Speaker_00
I'm just going to read, you have tweeted this. And I think maybe even on air said them all, but I'm going to say them again. This book contains the 24 anti-laws of marketing. One, forget about positioning. Luxury is not comparative.
01:57:08 Speaker_00
Two, does your product have enough flaws? Three, do not pander to your customer's wishes. Keep non-enthusiasts out. Do not respond to rising demand. Dominate the client. Make it difficult for clients to buy. Protect clients from non-clients.
01:57:27 Speaker_00
The role of advertising is not to sell. Communicate to those you are not targeting. The presumed price should always seem higher than the actual price. Luxury sets the price. Price does not set luxury.
01:57:41 Speaker_00
Raise your prices as time goes on in order to increase demand. Think about that one. Keep raising the average price of your product range. Do not sell. Keep stars out of your advertising. Cultivate closeness to the arts for initiates. That was 17.
01:58:00 Speaker_00
Numbers 18 through 24. I just like this is acquired right here. It smacks me in the face. Do not relocate your factories. We talked about that earlier.
01:58:11 Speaker_00
And then it continues, do not hire consultants, do not test, do not look for consensus, do not look after group synergies, do not look for cost reduction, just sell marginally on the internet.
01:58:23 Speaker_03
It's so good. It's good to get the reminders too.
01:58:26 Speaker_00
Yeah. That's one. The next one I want to mention, I also talked about earlier in the episode is the QB school on YouTube. So J.T.
01:58:35 Speaker_00
O'Sullivan, who was like a 10-year-long journeyman backup quarterback in the NFL, he briefly started for the 49ers, I think, in like the late 2000s.
01:58:47 Speaker_00
After he finished playing, went and got a PhD in leadership studies, and then started this YouTube channel where
01:58:58 Speaker_00
He breaks down quarterbacks performances every week and does behind the scenes of like basically just lets you ride along with how a quarterback and an NFL offense from like the offensive coordinator down to the quarterbacks coach down to the players
01:59:17 Speaker_00
Like what is actually happening? There was a quote that I think we cut from our NFL episode, but that kind of sums up what's going on here from one of the books that we read.
01:59:27 Speaker_00
It said that baseball fans love baseball because they think they understand the game. Football fans love football because they know they don't understand the game.
01:59:37 Speaker_00
I played football for 10 years and this is the first time I'm like getting a glimpse of understanding the game. It's so good. This guy is awesome.
01:59:45 Speaker_03
I can't wait. That's totally been a thing that we've done this fall as, you know, we were getting ready for the birth of our son, and then as we've been on the couch a lot, is, like, watch an insane amount of college football and NFL games.
01:59:57 Speaker_03
Yeah, I'm all over this YouTube channel.
01:59:59 Speaker_00
You just watch these games, and the drama is so compelling. But what's going on is at such another level.
02:00:06 Speaker_03
Yes. The production of football and the storylining around the teams and the players, it's the great at-scale storytelling of our time. And to your point, there's a whole nother thing going on underneath it all.
02:00:17 Speaker_03
It's funny, the carve-out I was going to do next before you jumped in with a couple is a Monday Night Football Manning cast.
02:00:23 Speaker_00
Oh, yeah.
02:00:23 Speaker_03
It's been so good this year. I actually didn't get into it until this season. I just didn't watch that much NFL until this season because I grew up a Browns fan and… Enough said.
02:00:32 Speaker_03
Well, yeah, but I've watched a lot of NFL this year and Eli and for anyone who doesn't know about Manning cast, when you're watching Monday Night Football, you can choose either to watch the normal announcers or there's a completely second production using the same cameras.
02:00:48 Speaker_03
plus a couple of cameras in Peyton Manning and Eli Manning's homes, where they're basically just like watching the game on Zoom together.
02:00:55 Speaker_03
It's a holdover from the pandemic, and they have guests on, like they had Will Ferrell on, but I think it's actually better without guests. Like even when it's just Eli and Peyton analyzing the game, it's similar to what you're talking about, David.
02:01:06 Speaker_03
It's a little bit of like helping you understand what's going on behind the scenes, but of course by two brothers that are very fun to be around, and they often act like they're still, you know, eight and 10 years old.
02:01:17 Speaker_00
I would say like if you think about the NFL broadcasts, that's one level. Then there's like Manning cast that's like several clicks deeper in getting a window into what's going on.
02:01:30 Speaker_00
And then QB school is like as far to the other side of the spectrum as you could go while still being really fun. Like JT is a great host, but like it's technical. It's very technical.
02:01:39 Speaker_03
Cool. All right. I'm pumped. Okay, we're entering the baby product section of recommendations.
02:01:45 Speaker_00
Is that okay with you? I've got one other first that I want to throw out. Lay it on me. Which is going to be a recommendation to nobody because you've already seen it. The Heiress Tour.
02:01:56 Speaker_03
I haven't watched it yet. Oh, you haven't watched it yet?
02:01:59 Speaker_00
Unbelievably.
02:01:59 Speaker_03
Oh my God. It's available at home now, right? Also, did we call that or did we call that? It's been two years since we did the T-Swift episode.
02:02:05 Speaker_00
Oh, amazing.
02:02:06 Speaker_03
Should have bought stock.
02:02:07 Speaker_00
Well, like we said, open invitation, Taylor. You know, we will fly to wherever you are. It is true.
02:02:12 Speaker_00
Dude, you got to watch it like when the baby's sleeping, maybe over the course of two naps, because it's a long movie, but she's just on another level from anybody.
02:02:21 Speaker_00
I mean, she's Time's Person of the Year this year, and it is one of the best movies, period, that I've ever seen, not just like concert film.
02:02:29 Speaker_03
Awesome. Can't wait. All right, baby recommendations?
02:02:32 Speaker_00
Go for it.
02:02:34 Speaker_03
I feel like I finally have strollers dialed.
02:02:36 Speaker_03
Now granted, I only have a one-month-old, so the needs massively change over time, but forever I was trying to figure out, for non-parents out there, figuring out the right car seat-stroller combos for all the different needs, like at home, travel, when they're different ages you have different needs.
02:02:55 Speaker_03
Right now we have a lean setup, like there's a way to be dialed in your setup by just having four strollers, but I'm pretty pumped where we landed with two.
02:03:04 Speaker_00
I am super pumped for your recommendations because I really trust you on this. Like Ben, you are such a optimizer. Like when it comes to this stuff, this is your wheelhouse. So I, I can't wait.
02:03:18 Speaker_03
All right. So here's the current setup. And this is after buying a few other strollers and returning them because there were things I didn't like about them ergonomically. So the UPPAbaby Vista is the home stroller. That's the one that's like big.
02:03:30 Speaker_03
You don't want to be in the business of like folding that and taking it. And that has the newborn bed in it.
02:03:36 Speaker_00
This is like the Chevy Suburban of strollers.
02:03:38 Speaker_03
Yes. Oh, it's you do not ever want to pick this thing up, but it's got great shocks. We take it on a trail near our house in the Arboretum in Seattle. And the fact that it has a huge bassinet on it, a lot of his naps happen there.
02:03:51 Speaker_03
So I can go on walks while the baby's napping, even as a newborn, which for a lot of strollers, newborns can't nap if they're sort of like upright or newborns can even sit, you know, in a normal looking stroller. So you need a bassinet stroller.
02:04:04 Speaker_03
So that's the home situation. The travel situation, and we haven't like flown anywhere yet, but we will in a month or so, is the Joules, J-O-O-L-Z Air Plus, A-E-R Plus.
02:04:18 Speaker_00
Okay, I've not heard of this device.
02:04:20 Speaker_03
I hadn't either, but we went to Nordstrom and we tested all the strollers.
02:04:25 Speaker_00
Amazing.
02:04:26 Speaker_03
And the one that we had ordered, I really hated the way that the handlebars sat and made my wrists feel. So I, we got this, um, the Jules Air Plus instead, and it has adapters for the car seat that we bought, the Cleck Link.
02:04:39 Speaker_00
Oh yeah.
02:04:40 Speaker_03
And it just snaps right in. So this Jules Air Plus is super light. It's 11 pounds. It fits in the overhead of a airplane. So when we travel starting in a month, we'll be able to do that. When we're home, it always sits in the back of the car.
02:04:55 Speaker_03
And so like whenever we take the baby out, we leave the baby in the car seat and we just snap the car seat, which by the way, is like the safest, you know, the click Ling is like the safe car seat.
02:05:06 Speaker_00
Yeah. Yeah. You do not want to be transferring baby out of car seat when baby it's asleep ever.
02:05:12 Speaker_03
No. So the car seat just snaps right in. And so for like doctor's visits and stuff, we just take the travel stroller with the car seat snapped in no interruption to sleep. It took a lot of finagling, but this is where we've arrived for now.
02:05:25 Speaker_03
The optimizations are some people recommend the Thule running stroller. In addition to this, we'll have to see if that's a category we dip into.
02:05:34 Speaker_00
You're not at that phase yet.
02:05:35 Speaker_03
Yeah, and other people are swearing by this. In fact, a listener to the show, Alex, I think, texts me. I don't know, he texts me a lot about this stroller, and I think he's probably their number one fan. There's a car seat that converts to a stroller.
02:05:50 Speaker_00
Yeah, the Duna.
02:05:51 Speaker_03
The Duna.
02:05:52 Speaker_00
I was literally waiting with bated breath for your opinion on the Duna.
02:05:55 Speaker_03
That may enter the rotation. I haven't tried it yet.
02:05:58 Speaker_00
Barry, the lead here. Also, Jenny and I are expecting number two this year.
02:06:02 Speaker_03
Yay! Congratulations! I was wondering if you were going to talk about it.
02:06:05 Speaker_00
Obviously, Ben already knew, but I appreciate the faint surprise there. And we are considering, this is among the considerations said, and whether we would change our strategy at all. So, okay, lay it on me.
02:06:16 Speaker_03
So the Duna is sort of like a different philosophy of what if your car seat could become a stroller. And so that way, when you're going on vacation, you actually don't bring a travel stroller.
02:06:28 Speaker_03
You just keep the baby in the car seat all the way until you get to gate check. Then you check the Duna. or if you're so bold as to get a seat for your newborn, then I think they can stay in it. I'm not exactly sure how that works.
02:06:42 Speaker_03
And then when you get there, so the trade-off then is like, is the Duna actually a good enough stroller for like five mile walks? And that I don't know. When we go on vacation, we just try to do like tons and tons of walking.
02:06:53 Speaker_03
And so that's the thing that I'm playing with, with is the Duna gonna enter the rotation or do we rely on the air?
02:06:59 Speaker_00
Okay, I'm waiting with bated breath for your verdict on that.
02:07:03 Speaker_03
Yeah, stay tuned. At the risk of Acquired getting a lot more boring, I think we have to keep discussion of baby products to a minimum.
02:07:10 Speaker_00
Well, this is niche Acquired here. Like, for the right niche, this is riveting content.
02:07:16 Speaker_03
Yep. Either a spinoff show or we're gonna have to keep these, like, we'll create, like, a bonus section at the end of the episode or something. Yeah, yeah.
02:07:23 Speaker_00
I was thinking about like, Oh, what are my kids? You know, my daughter's two now. She's like, you know, she's certainly not an adult, but like, it's, you know, it's moves fast. Like she's, she eats people food. Yeah.
02:07:33 Speaker_00
She especially, she is basically an adult at this point.
02:07:36 Speaker_03
You sent me that picture of her eating a Costco hot dog.
02:07:38 Speaker_00
Oh yeah, totally. Well, let's be clear. I ate the hot dog, she ate the bun. Which was her choice.
02:07:46 Speaker_00
My kid-related carve-out, I was having trouble coming up with any of them, and this isn't even that kid-related, but it's her favorite movie, which everybody should watch. I can't believe I hadn't seen it till now, is Coco.
02:07:59 Speaker_00
The Pixar movie Coco, about Dia de los Muertos. It's so good, I've now seen it like 10 times. I will probably see it about 500 more times in my life. And, um... Disney+, despite all the turmoil and Iger and all that, it's a hell of a drug.
02:08:14 Speaker_00
It's a hell of a drug for a parent.
02:08:17 Speaker_03
Hey, that's also where you can find great shows such as Alias. Yeah.
02:08:22 Speaker_00
All right, well, that's it for extended carve-outs slash holiday present suggestions this year from Acquired. We have one more section to close out the year, and that is thank yous.
02:08:36 Speaker_00
First, we owe just the biggest thank you in the world to our wonderful editor, Stephen. Stephen, you are, and everybody listening I'm sure will agree, the single best podcast editor in the business. It's unbelievable. Hands down. It's not even close.
02:08:56 Speaker_03
And for people who are curious about how this works, Stephen does a first pass after we send him eight, nine hours of raw audio and turning it into sort of a candidate episode. And that's getting rid of likes and ums and all that.
02:09:10 Speaker_03
But it's retakes, it's redos, it's David and I saying, ah, I feel like that didn't come across right. I didn't make the point succinct enough. Why don't I try to make it more succinct?
02:09:18 Speaker_03
Then he sends us back this release candidate, which we then also tear apart and has, you know, a hundred more edits of like, this fact is wrong. This little part of this sentence is extraneous. Delete this number.
02:09:32 Speaker_03
Hey, can we move this section to this part?" And then does a complete second pass after a week's worth of work to deal with us on a complete second copy edit. So, thank you so much, Steven. You're the best. And it comes out just sounding immaculate.
02:09:47 Speaker_00
Immaculate. Steven, you are the man. Thank you for making the show what it is.
02:09:53 Speaker_00
Second, thank you for this year is once again, MVP of Acquired, Andrew Marks, not only for Charlie, but really for being our thought partner behind like every episode and relationships that we've built and, you know, now heading into next year and investing, helping us think through that.
02:10:10 Speaker_03
Oh, while we're thanking thought partners, we should thank friend of the show, Mark Bridge, who is a good friend of mine up here in Seattle, a good friend of David's as well. He gave me transitions.
02:10:19 Speaker_03
Runs a very cool, is a founder of a very cool company called At Present, which is a marketplace for very unique and cool jewelry pieces for women. David and I are actually both small investors in the company. And customers. And customers, that's right.
02:10:33 Speaker_03
probably the most expensive thing I ever bought, I bought through at present. But Mark has been a thought partner on tons and tons of episodes, especially Berkshire. He actually suggested LVMH, good thought partner on Nike.
02:10:45 Speaker_03
So Mark, thank you for everything you've done and helping Acquired too.
02:10:49 Speaker_00
Yes. Speaking of LVMH, Adam Pritzker helped us a ton on LVMH. Adam, of course, was one of the founders of General Assembly and now has assembled brands and Kate, which they just sold and was a fantastic outcome for everybody there.
02:11:04 Speaker_00
Adam really gave us a window into actually building and running one of these companies.
02:11:10 Speaker_03
Yep, the whole team at NVIDIA, initially the people that were willing to speak with us about the episodes we were doing just to help with the research for the episodes and make sure we got it right, but then subsequently their entire communications team for hosting us and putting up with all of our requests and being willing to build the insane three screen setup and film it with three cameras and do everything we wanted to the production standards we wanted and way more at NVIDIA HQ.
02:11:36 Speaker_03
So thanks to the awesome team there. Thank you to Doug DiMero for consenting to join the crazy acquired episode process for Porsche.
02:11:45 Speaker_00
I don't think Doug knew what he was getting into when he agreed to this.
02:11:49 Speaker_03
No, but he did all the research too.
02:11:51 Speaker_03
And, you know, for someone who has two businesses that he's trying to, you know, run at the same time, you know, he started with a headstart on the history of Porsche, but he really did a ton of work to prepare for that and had all of his facts and figures ready at hand.
02:12:04 Speaker_00
Let us into his garage for the whole day.
02:12:07 Speaker_03
Yeah, Doug rocks. Also, I'm thinking about buying my next car, and like, I've been watching so many Doug videos to prepare.
02:12:13 Speaker_00
He also totally set the bar for if and when we ever have another voice on a season episode, that is how we're gonna do it.
02:12:23 Speaker_03
like an expert guest host. We love that format.
02:12:26 Speaker_03
We'd like your feedback on it too, but we thought that was the perfect amount of guest research and what they brought to the table and how we looped them in with the episode and interacting with David and I. We were just like, this is a 10 out of 10.
02:12:39 Speaker_00
10 out of 10. Just such a high quality guy on every dimension. Yep. And then on the research dimension, you know, thank you to, um, I mean, dozens, dozens of people who helped us with research for our episodes this year, too many to name here.
02:12:55 Speaker_00
And many of you don't want to be named, but you know, people who have way better things to do with their time than chat with me and Ben about a podcast episode we're working on, you know, CEOs and CFOs of public companies, et cetera.
02:13:09 Speaker_00
Immensely grateful.
02:13:10 Speaker_03
And for most of these folks, they do it because they listen. And so they sort of know the product that's going to come out the other side.
02:13:16 Speaker_03
Thank you also for listening, because I think that's sort of the superpower of Acquired, is the fact that now there are people who listen who can really help us make sure that we get episodes right. So we love getting these notes.
02:13:29 Speaker_03
I mean, we can't respond to them all, but people who join the Slack or email us, acquiredfm at gmail.com and say, hi, here's a thing that I know a lot about in my industry experience. If you ever do it, feel free to reach out.
02:13:40 Speaker_03
We totally do when we do those episodes, so thank you.
02:13:42 Speaker_00
Yeah, thank you. Speaking of the last and most important thank you to all of you, this whole thing would not happen without you listening. You all are just an amazing community, and we really appreciate you. Have a wonderful, wonderful holiday season.
02:14:01 Speaker_00
Yes. All the best for a happy, successful, wonderful new year ahead.
02:14:07 Speaker_03
And with that, if you want to know every time an episode drops, you can sign up for email updates at acquired.fm slash email. We added two new things recently. Emails include little hints at what the next episode will be.
02:14:19 Speaker_03
And they're also where we're putting follow ups and corrections to previous episodes.
02:14:23 Speaker_03
So thanks to the two listeners who recently wrote in correcting me on Visa, that it was not North Dakota, but South Dakota that first changed their usury laws to support credit cards, which is why all of your credit cards
02:14:35 Speaker_03
or so many of them are bailed from there today. So we'll be including, I don't know, we've got three or four more Visa tidbits that we'll toss in the email for that. Come talk about this episode with us after listening at acquired.fm slash slack.
02:14:49 Speaker_03
Check out ACQ2. We just did this awesome Visa follow-up with our good buddy Gaurav Ahuja from Thrive Capital. He's been in the payments industry for over a decade, founding companies, investing in companies, and helped put a finer point
02:15:02 Speaker_03
on a lot of the things we were describing in the current ecosystem today. If you want some merch, we've got a sweet merch store, acquired.fm slash store. And with that, listeners, we'll see you next year. We will see you next year.