God as the Generous Host (Re-Release) AI transcript and summary - episode of podcast BibleProject

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Episode: God as the Generous Host (Re-Release)

Author: BibleProject Podcast
Duration: 00:39:17

Episode Shownotes

The Bible begins with a portrait of God as an amazing and generous host to humanity, an image that is on full display in the Genesis creation narrative. But the humans ruin the party in Eden by believing the lies that God is stingy and withholding. In this re-released episode

from 2019, Jon and Tim start at the beginning of the Bible, where God seeks to be generous and gracious, and where humans respond with suspicion, greed, jealousy, and murder.View more resources on our website →TimestampsChapter 1: Always One Horrible Choice From Ruining the Party (00:00-15:04)Chapter 2: A Noble-Looking Way to Ruin Abundance (15:04-26:47)Chapter 3: The Chosen and the Onlookers (26:47-39:17)Referenced ResourcesYou can find our Generosity theme video here.Check out Tim’s library here.You can experience our entire library of resources in the BibleProject app, available for Android and iOS.Show Music“Spiral” by KV Twin“Leche 005” by Matthew Halbert-HowenBibleProject theme song by TENTSShow CreditsProduction of today's episode is by Dan Gummel, producer; Lindsey Ponder, producer, and Cooper Peltz, managing producer. Tyler Bailey is our supervising engineer and remixed this episode for re-release. JB Witty does our show notes, and Hannah Woo provides the annotations for our app. Our host and creative director is Jon Collins, and our lead scholar is Tim Mackie.Powered and distributed by Simplecast.

Summary

In this re-released episode from the BibleProject Podcast, Jon and Tim explore the biblical theme of God's generosity as portrayed in the Genesis creation narrative. They discuss human tendencies, like jealousy and suspicion, that undermine this divine generosity, particularly illustrated through the story of Cain and Abel. The conversation reveals how human choices can distort the abundant life that God intends for humanity and reflects on the broader implications of divine favor and election across biblical history. Throughout the episode, the hosts emphasize the importance of trust in God's goodness amidst perceived inequality in blessings.

Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (God as the Generous Host (Re-Release)) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.

Full Transcript

00:00:05 Speaker_05
Hey everybody, this is Tim at The Bible Project, and you're listening to The Bible Project Podcast. Last week, John and I started a new conversation about the theme of generosity in the storyline of the Bible.

00:00:18 Speaker_05
This is connected to a new video that we're making at The Bible Project.

00:00:22 Speaker_05
In the last episode, we explored some of Jesus' most famous teachings about freedom from anxiety and learning about the generosity and abundance that God has in store for his people.

00:00:35 Speaker_05
Jesus walked around with this deep conviction that despite all of the pain and suffering that he saw going on in the world, despite all the pain and suffering that he himself experienced, he still believed.

00:00:46 Speaker_05
that Yahweh, the God of Israel, the Creator of heaven and earth, is an extremely generous host who has given an overabundance of resources and opportunities to all of us.

00:00:58 Speaker_05
Jesus was able to manage that tension and think it through because, you can see in his teachings, his heart and his mind were soaked in the Hebrew Scriptures and specifically the portrait of the generous God in Genesis chapters 1 and 2.

00:01:11 Speaker_05
So that's what we're going to look at today. We're going to explore the creation story in Genesis 1 and how it portrays God as an extremely generous host who's packing creation full of abundance and opportunity.

00:01:25 Speaker_05
We're also going to look at the story of Adam and Eve, how they forfeit and take advantage of God's generosity. And then we're going to go into the next story, outside of Eden. We're going to explore the story of Cain and Abel.

00:01:38 Speaker_05
One way to think about it is a story about one person who gets angry about God's seeming generosity to another. How do you respond when you feel like God's being more generous to somebody else, but not to you?

00:01:52 Speaker_05
And that raises an even more fascinating question that keeps getting focused on throughout the storyline of the Bible. The concept of God choosing a whole line of people and being extremely generous to them, the family of Abraham.

00:02:06 Speaker_05
John and I explore the topic of election and why it is that God seems to be generous to some more than he is to others. Or maybe we're just thinking about this all upside down. We're going to explore these questions and more today on the podcast.

00:02:21 Speaker_05
So thanks for joining us. And here we go. So we're talking about the theme of generosity in the storyline of the Bible.

00:02:33 Speaker_02
You twitched a little when you said theme.

00:02:36 Speaker_05
You're still not there. You're still not at theme. I might convince myself by the time we're done with this conversation. Yeah. We're talking about generosity in the storyline of the Bible. Yeah. We're gonna make a video.

00:02:48 Speaker_05
We've been pondering, along with Jesus and the poets of the Psalms, the portrait of God as a generous host in Genesis 1. This image of God throwing this amazing party.

00:03:00 Speaker_02
Yeah, you show up into existence at an amazing party.

00:03:04 Speaker_05
Yeah, you wake up.

00:03:05 Speaker_02
You wake up and everything.

00:03:05 Speaker_05
Not just that you go to someone's house. You literally, you wake up.

00:03:08 Speaker_02
But let's say you did go to someone's house for an amazing party. And everything's hosted, it's amazing. Everything's a gift. You're not gonna worry. You're gonna have a good time.

00:03:18 Speaker_02
You're not sitting there like, oh well, how do I make sure I get enough drinks? Where's my little corner of this party?

00:03:28 Speaker_05
I better grab three from the tray when the person walks by.

00:03:31 Speaker_02
Wait, that person's using the hot tub? Like, I thought, God darn it. Oh wait, there's five more over there! Yeah, that's good. You're not worrying.

00:03:40 Speaker_02
That's Jesus just saying, like, if you really believe this God's a host of an amazing event, you're just going to enjoy the event.

00:03:51 Speaker_02
Which then also feels careless when it comes to suffering, but that's what we're going to talk about, is why is there suffering at an amazing event? That's right.

00:03:58 Speaker_05
Surely Jesus obviously isn't a stranger to suffering and death. Look at what happened to him. And of course he grew up in a beautiful land of abundance, northern Israel-Palestine, but that was full of impoverished Jews because of the Roman occupation.

00:04:22 Speaker_05
So how can he foster this worldview in that kind of setting? Well, the story on which Jesus was raised offers a powerful explanation for why there's such poverty in a world of abundance.

00:04:34 Speaker_02
It's like you show up to a party and all of a sudden you notice people acting like they're not at a party. And they're just doing all these weird things that you shouldn't do at a party.

00:04:47 Speaker_02
They're forming these factions and they're making sure certain people don't have access to certain things. They take the hors d'oeuvres trays, and then they begin to stack them in the den. And they only give certain people access to the den.

00:05:04 Speaker_02
Then they block off the den from the rest of the people and they form a little group. And everyone's like, what is happening? Where's the host? Someone needs to take care of this. We need him to act and come back. Make sure this party goes right.

00:05:22 Speaker_05
Okay, good. Ooh, let's make this a meta story For okay. So that the banquet the banquet the banquet is genesis one and then You start seeing people steal hors d'oeuvres trays And smuggle them into the den.

00:05:37 Speaker_05
Yeah, and then they form a little pack and then you start to ask yourself like what? Why are they acting that way? Yeah, what's What's underneath that? What's the psychology?

00:05:46 Speaker_02
Yeah, they should just be enjoying themselves with everyone else. So foolish.

00:05:50 Speaker_05
Why are they being so short-sighted? Such a limited perspective. What would motivate people to act that way? And Genesis chapter 3 offers us a portrait of why humans would do something like that.

00:06:04 Speaker_05
And it actually begins a portrait that's going to be filled out in the storyline of the Bible of why humans would steal the hors d'oeuvre. That's so good. I like it, John.

00:06:13 Speaker_02
Yeah. That's helpful. Totally. I'm taking this chocolate fountain for myself. Where's the strawberries? They're all mine.

00:06:24 Speaker_05
This is ridiculous. What a ridiculous thing to think about. Yeah. Okay. So Genesis three opens telling us that there is a snake there. That's one of the creatures of the field that the Lord God had made. That's the wording, but it's more shrewd.

00:06:42 Speaker_05
It's a little sharper than the rest.

00:06:44 Speaker_02
He shows up at the party and he's like, you know what? I think there's something more here we can do.

00:06:48 Speaker_05
Well, remember this isn't an inherently negative word, this word shrewd. It gets translated as crafty in all modern English translations. Sounds negative.

00:06:57 Speaker_05
But this word appears only elsewhere in the book of Proverbs where it's a neutral or positive trait. It's somebody who sizes up all the options and possibilities of a situation and can come up with really creative, clever solutions.

00:07:14 Speaker_02
Yeah, in StrengthsFinders, that's called strategic.

00:07:18 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, exactly. The snake was more strategic. And so he sees all of this abundance, and something happens in him that we're not told. It's not actually developed until later in the biblical story.

00:07:31 Speaker_05
You find out why this creature did what it did.

00:07:32 Speaker_02
Yeah, this backstory of this creature.

00:07:34 Speaker_05
Yeah, you have to wait, yeah, till Genesis 11, and then really Isaiah 13, and Ezekiel,

00:07:41 Speaker_02
Book of Daniel. And we'll make a video about it.

00:07:43 Speaker_05
We'll make a video about that. But all that happens and he approaches the woman and says the first thing he tries to undermine is the trust that the host is generous. Indeed, did God really say that you can't eat from any of these trees?

00:08:03 Speaker_05
That's ridiculous.

00:08:05 Speaker_02
He didn't say that.

00:08:05 Speaker_05
It's the exact opposite. And the woman corrects him. No, no, it's the opposite. We can eat from any, but just now the sentence, now the option is out, the possibility is out there.

00:08:17 Speaker_02
Now you're thinking it. Now you're thinking it.

00:08:19 Speaker_05
Don't think of pink elephants. Yeah, now you're thinking about it. Yeah. What? No, that's not what God said, right? It's the power of suggestion. That's right. Yeah.

00:08:30 Speaker_05
Even if it seems absurd or impossible, it becomes somewhat more possible once you say it out loud. Once you plant the idea. Yeah. Did God say you can't eat any of the food at the party? No, no, no. He said that we could.

00:08:44 Speaker_05
Oh, yeah, actually, but there's that one thing that we are not supposed to eat from the tree that's in the middle of the garden. And it's just here.

00:08:54 Speaker_05
It just assumes that you've internalized what knowing good and evil means and what it would mean to take that for yourself. knows what she says, but God said about that tree, you shall not eat from it or touch it. Which God never said the touch thing.

00:09:10 Speaker_05
Or you will surely die. The serpent said to the woman, no, once again, oh no, no, no. That hors d'oeuvre plate is fine for you to eat. Go right ahead. It's a different tactic now. First it was just that power of suggestion. Now it's an alternative story.

00:09:27 Speaker_05
Yeah. God told you you're going to kill yourselves. You're going to die if you cease to know and discern good and evil on your own wisdom. Actually, that's not the case. Actually, the opposite's the case. Here's what God knows, but isn't telling you.

00:09:42 Speaker_05
That when you eat from that, your eyes will be opened and you'll be like Elohim. You'll be like the divine in the capacity to know And not just know, to know good and evil means then to define it, to make decisions about it.

00:09:58 Speaker_05
I mean, we're only five verses in and it's the full, the full deception package is right there.

00:10:04 Speaker_02
Yeah. You called the truth and knowledge of good and evil, like an hors d'oeuvre plate. I did.

00:10:10 Speaker_02
Where this story starts to feel weird or absurd is like having an hors d'oeuvre plate in the center of the banquet table and then saying, guys, just stay away from that one.

00:10:23 Speaker_05
Yeah.

00:10:23 Speaker_02
But there's something so central to this urge to take control ourselves. It is central. It's like always there right in the center.

00:10:34 Speaker_05
That's a good point. I pondered two times in Genesis 1-3 its position in the middle.

00:10:39 Speaker_02
In the middle of the garden. It's always bummed me out.

00:10:41 Speaker_05
It's highlighted. Perhaps one way to think about that is it's describing the ever-present possibility of me to abuse my existence and the abundance or opportunity that I have. Yeah. It's ever-present.

00:10:55 Speaker_05
In other words, some people would say it's in the middle and they would blame God for that. Why'd he put it right there? You know, have you heard that line before? Totally. Yeah. Why didn't he put it on the far edge? In a corner.

00:11:05 Speaker_05
I think I've heard you make that joke. Yeah, lock it up. Yeah. The point is, but that's not true.

00:11:10 Speaker_02
Human experience. It's always, it's always present.

00:11:13 Speaker_05
It's always a possibility for me to ruin. Gosh, I think this all the time. Either my kids will do this, you know, we'll be having a great moment at dinner and then like one of my sons will just like Yeah, August did this the other night.

00:11:27 Speaker_05
He just was eating rice and we are in this great conversation and then he just ejected it all out of his mouth. Yeah. Just spewed rice all over the table for no good reason.

00:11:37 Speaker_00
Yeah.

00:11:38 Speaker_05
Wanted to know what would happen. See what would happen. And it did on my face and it's like, oh, then all this great conversation got and it was over. We're just one small choice away from ruining the party. Okay. Party foul. Yeah. It's always present.

00:11:54 Speaker_05
It's in the middle. John, thank you. Yeah, right? For some reason that's locking in for me in a way I haven't quite thought about it before.

00:12:00 Speaker_02
Yeah, it's in the middle. I've thought about in terms of that you can't get from one side of the garden to the other without walking by it.

00:12:06 Speaker_05
Yes, it's, yes.

00:12:07 Speaker_02
And another way you could think about it is like no matter where you're looking in the garden, like it's in your field of view. Yeah. It's like, it's ever looming.

00:12:16 Speaker_05
Correct. Yes, yes. Reality. That's right. And so remember, actually I want to do, in our Genesis 1-2 series, I want to do a whole video about the tree.

00:12:26 Speaker_05
Because sacred trees representing either the gift of life from the gods or sacred resources from the gods. This is a motif in ancient Near Eastern art and literature. The tree of life. There's Egyptian trees of life and Babylonian.

00:12:43 Speaker_05
You can go find drawings of them. Google them and you'll find them. They're cool looking.

00:12:47 Speaker_05
So yeah, I think a biblical author is taking this motif and transforming it because knowing good and evil is also going to be the gift that the Torah presents to Israel.

00:12:59 Speaker_05
What are they going to do with this gift of knowing good and evil that God's given them through the Torah? Are they going to follow it? Are they going to abuse it? The gift of wisdom in the book of Proverbs. The wisdom is a tree of life.

00:13:11 Speaker_05
Proverbs chapter 3. The Torah is a tree of life. The Torah is a is a tree of life, that's right. Yeah, that's how the book of Proverbs frames it. Yes, my Torah is a tree of life, the Father says in the speeches in Proverbs 1-9.

00:13:26 Speaker_02
And so the tree... And so not following the Torah would then be the tree of knowledge.

00:13:32 Speaker_05
Yeah, it would be taking the tree and reducing it to my own wisdom. And the same in Proverbs, it's rejecting the wisdom of your elders is the equivalent to taking from the tree and defining good and evil by your own wisdom.

00:13:47 Speaker_05
And that's an ever-present possibility in every moment of my existence, is to ruin everything by a horrible choice. One horrible choice. I think about that all the time.

00:13:59 Speaker_02
You know what? Yeah, I think about that too. I remember years ago, I was talking with our colleague, Ken, and he asked me this question. He said, he's got the funniest questions sometimes.

00:14:10 Speaker_02
He said, how many choices do you think you're away from completely screwing up your life? And it turned into like this thought experiment game.

00:14:21 Speaker_01
And we're like, okay, how many?

00:14:23 Speaker_02
And I'm thinking about it and I'm like, is it four or five? And then once we kind of worked through it, we were like, we are one or two decisions away from completely screwing up our lives. Yeah.

00:14:32 Speaker_05
Ruining everything irreversibly. Wow. It's a terrifying thought. It's a tree in the middle of the garden right there. It's a tree in the middle of the garden.

00:14:41 Speaker_01
Yeah, it is. It's just right there, ready to destroy you.

00:14:44 Speaker_04
Yeah, that's right.

00:15:04 Speaker_05
Okay, remember, our meta story is there's a group of people at the party. Yeah. They're locked up in the, we doing the den or the pool room?

00:15:12 Speaker_02
The pool room.

00:15:13 Speaker_05
I like the pool room. Okay, let's go pool room.

00:15:14 Speaker_02
All right.

00:15:15 Speaker_05
They've stolen half the hors d'oeuvres plates.

00:15:18 Speaker_02
Yeah.

00:15:18 Speaker_05
And you're thinking of why are they doing that?

00:15:20 Speaker_02
Yeah.

00:15:21 Speaker_05
Well, somehow, and let's say you can interview one. Yeah. And they'll be honest. They'll say, well, we began to become aware, like, this party will end one day. This party will end. And there may actually not be enough. Yeah. For everybody. Yeah.

00:15:33 Speaker_05
And we think it would be good for us to hoard up hors d'oeuvres plates. That seems wise. Yeah. In our eyes. Yeah. And so, sorry for you guys out there, but we gotta think about You know?

00:15:45 Speaker_02
Right. Our group. You guys will figure it out.

00:15:48 Speaker_05
You'll figure it out. There's enough out there still for you, but we're gonna seal off ourselves. Wow, that's a very different mentality than when we all first showed up here.

00:15:55 Speaker_02
Totally. Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting parable. Yeah, it is. You could have a conversation with that person and they could really convince you in a logical way. Correct. Of like, you know,

00:16:07 Speaker_02
Like, I'm sorry this is hard for you, but this is the right thing for us to be doing. It's what I've got to do. I've got to look out for my group. It's the good and right thing. And you can kind of go like, I guess I can see how you got there.

00:16:16 Speaker_02
That's right. It sucks for me, though. Yeah.

00:16:17 Speaker_05
Genesis 3, 6. When the woman saw that the tree was good for eating... It's good. It's a perfectly good tree. It was beautiful to the eyes. It's nice.

00:16:28 Speaker_05
And that the tree was desirable, this is key, it's the word chamad in Hebrew, that's the verb, or nechmad is the actual word, but then it's from the root chamad. It's the word to covet. One of the Ten Commandments, do not covet.

00:16:40 Speaker_05
It's this word, desire, desire. So the tree was covetable. So do not covet could also be do not desire? Correct. which doesn't sound right in English.

00:16:50 Speaker_05
The idea, covet is actually a good English word there because it's about illegitimate desire for a thing that is not rightly mine or that ought not to be mine. So this tree is desirable for making me wise.

00:17:05 Speaker_05
So she took coveting, desiring, and taking is the fundamental act here. And then she ate and then she gave. She's giving, oh how generous. But no, after the desiring and taking, even giving is now tainted. It's now been... Yeah, with her and he ate.

00:17:24 Speaker_05
It's just six verses that we've looked at in Genesis, but it's a study in what people do with abundance, the problem of abundance for selfish humans.

00:17:35 Speaker_02
Well, in a world of abundance, in the nature of this reality, there is also the ever-present potential to grow it up or to turn it inwards.

00:17:50 Speaker_05
Yeah. Or something potentially that can look more noble.

00:17:54 Speaker_02
And it can look noble. And it will look noble.

00:17:57 Speaker_05
To look out for me. Yeah, that's the thing. To look out for me and mine.

00:17:59 Speaker_02
It's the problem of twisting abundance into selfishness looks noble.

00:18:05 Speaker_05
Yes. Within a universe where there's not enough, if my perspective on the universe is there's not enough.

00:18:10 Speaker_02
Yes. Then it makes perfect sense.

00:18:12 Speaker_05
It makes perfect sense.

00:18:13 Speaker_02
It's very noble. Yes. You're taking care of the people you love. Yeah. And that problem is represented in the image of a beautiful fruit tree in the center of the garden. And God said, it's going to look good, but trust me. It will kill you.

00:18:32 Speaker_02
That's the one that'll destroy the party. Yes.

00:18:34 Speaker_05
It is interesting. Yeah, I'm interested in this limited perspective. Again, back to where we began this. Jesus begins this teaching that ends with him saying, therefore, sell your stuff and give it away. Yeah.

00:18:46 Speaker_05
Because it's going to corrupt your perspective. Because the more stuff you have, the more you're going to be thinking about how there's not enough. It's like it'll foster the opposite mindset.

00:18:56 Speaker_05
But the abundance creation mindset of the biblical story will free you to enjoy the party. That's interesting. Two approaches to seeing the world.

00:19:07 Speaker_05
And in one, it so clearly seems absurd that you would hoard things or store up things for you and your group in a way that deprives others. That doesn't make any sense in Genesis 1.

00:19:20 Speaker_02
Wouldn't it be interesting to show up at that party? And it's already, and it's well into the party. It's like, and things have been pretty established of like all this weird stuff happening. People in the pool room, people in the den, like there's.

00:19:33 Speaker_02
Oh, got it. There's groups holding up in different rooms. Yeah. Yeah. Right. People are just kind of, they're not acting like it's a party anymore. But you show up and you know, you know it's a party and you know that there is enough.

00:19:48 Speaker_02
And that would be such a weird, to then go into the pool room and interact with those people. You're trying to convince them. You're trying to convince them, well, there is enough.

00:19:57 Speaker_02
And then for you to then go, you just know like the host is going to bring more and it's going to continue. And even all of this chaos that we're creating, he's going to come and Like solve that too. Yes. Yeah. Like it's weird.

00:20:11 Speaker_02
You're going to be like, I want to try to figure out how to enjoy the party, but also like help you try to figure out how to enjoy the party. Totally. Yeah. Let's get this started again.

00:20:19 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's right. You know, it's funny. We've already said this, but it's, it's more clear to me in this moment.

00:20:25 Speaker_05
that when you read those teachings of Jesus, where he says, look at the ravens, and look at the lilies, and many, I have found, myself included, many people, at least in our cultural setting, we read that and we, it's hard for us.

00:20:39 Speaker_05
We're like, that sounds hippie. Or irresponsible. But what's actually happening is just this clash of worldviews, where the reason it bothers me is because I don't actually hold that view of the world.

00:20:52 Speaker_04
Yeah.

00:20:54 Speaker_05
We've talked through the flow of Genesis 3-11 multiple times, but just think through it real quickly with me in light of this abundance, generosity versus scarcity and taking mindset.

00:21:08 Speaker_05
Genesis 4, Cain's jealousy and anger compels him to take the life of his brother. So instead of focusing on his ability to give life by being a farmer of the ground, he's angry. Can we stop here on that?

00:21:26 Speaker_02
This bugs me about the story of Cain and Abel. God is more generous to Abel than he is to Cain.

00:21:31 Speaker_05
Ah, well, he just looks with favor.

00:21:33 Speaker_02
Yeah, well, what does that mean?

00:21:35 Speaker_02
I gotta imagine that means, okay, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but you give an offering to God in the sense of all this is yours, here's a symbol of that, but you're doing it because you want another good harvest, you want abundance.

00:21:51 Speaker_05
Yeah, or you're saying thank you.

00:21:53 Speaker_02
And you're saying thank you.

00:21:53 Speaker_05
Or you're saying thank you for the harvest that we just had.

00:21:55 Speaker_02
Oh, all they're doing is saying thank you, maybe. But the expectation is favor.

00:21:59 Speaker_05
Well, I think certainly it's a reciprocal kind of thing. Yahweh sends rain, you know, gives me abundant crops, and so I take these symbolic tokens of my crop and I say thank you so much.

00:22:10 Speaker_02
You think these were thank offerings that Cain and Abel were doing?

00:22:13 Speaker_05
Ah, well at least what Cain's offering, he's a worker of the ground. Yeah.

00:22:16 Speaker_02
Well, they both offer a portion of their... Correct. That's right. Harvest.

00:22:21 Speaker_05
That's right. Yeah, what he's offering is a grain offering, which in Leviticus is solely a thank you offering. Oh, is that significant? Well, it's not, it didn't atone, cover for sins. It wasn't a form of petition. It was thank you.

00:22:37 Speaker_02
Should I be thinking about that when I'm reading the story? Oh, I think so. I think so. Okay. Yeah. So that's Cain saying thank you. And that's Abel. No, that's Cain's story. He's saying thank you. And Abel has the Mm-hmm.

00:22:49 Speaker_05
He brings yeah from the firstborn of his flock. Yeah, and that's a sin offering Yeah, the Passover sacrifice is a firstborn. Yeah, Passover meal is a firstborn of the flock Yes, and again, this is Genesis 4.

00:23:03 Speaker_05
All the language here is crafted with an eye towards the depictions of sacrifice later on. However, I don't think the story is trying to tell us that one sacrifice is better than the other.

00:23:15 Speaker_02
Both are legitimate forms of sacrifice. And I've heard you say that, and so I grant that. But God shows favor towards one and not the other. Correct. So what does that mean other than he is being more generous to one than the other?

00:23:30 Speaker_05
Yeah. Actually, my current way of understanding it, but I have learned that these things develop and change the more you ponder, is that it's an intentionally ambiguous gap in the narrative. The favor. The favor.

00:23:45 Speaker_05
Because it's going to be developed throughout all the generations. Why Abraham, but not his brothers, his other two brothers? Why did God choose him to be the vehicle of blessing? Why Isaac, but not Ishmael?

00:23:59 Speaker_05
And then certainly, why Jacob, whose name means deceiver? And so it's the mystery. Genesis, I think, is developing this portrait of the mystery of why God chose one specific lineage. God chose one family. out of all the families through whom to work.

00:24:18 Speaker_05
And it's the mystery of election. Yeah, the whole theme of election in Paul's writing is all about this. And it's a very old mystery. And the fact that God chooses one doesn't mean that there isn't more blessing for others.

00:24:35 Speaker_02
Yeah, well, so in the way I've been taught election growing up in the faith was, it does mean that. But that is interesting when you connect it to this story of God choosing one person over another as a vehicle for blessing for all the others.

00:24:52 Speaker_05
That's the logic of the whole thing. Yeah. Especially Abraham. It's especially dense in the Abraham election.

00:24:57 Speaker_02
But whenever I was taught and read election kind of stuff in the New Testament, it ripped out of that context. I see. And it's really just more about, why do some people get to go to the party and others don't?

00:25:10 Speaker_05
Okay, that's right. Well, once you take election out of the biblical context, and you put it into a, some people go to the good place after they die, some people go to the bad place, who gets to go? the ones that are pre-written in the script.

00:25:23 Speaker_05
But that's a different story than the biblical story. That's certainly not what Paul has in mind. In Ephesians 1, he has in mind this story. It's about the family of Abraham selected out from all the nations to bring blessing to the others. So, okay.

00:25:39 Speaker_02
Back to Cain and Abel. I'm so sorry, Cain and Abel. No, you were great. I did that and that was wonderful. That was helpful for me.

00:25:45 Speaker_02
But to get back on track, the favor isn't so... I'm not supposed to be thinking like, oh, God's hooking up one and not the other, he's being more generous to one or the other. I mean, there is a sense. There is a favor.

00:25:57 Speaker_05
There is a favor. Yep. But it doesn't mean that it's at the complete expense of the other person. Yeah. Well, Cain experienced it that way. He sure feels that way. But is that a necessary response? Or is that just a limited perspective, selfish response?

00:26:47 Speaker_05
It's actually very similar. Again, remember Genesis 4 and 3 are mirror stories of each other. So, God's, everything's fine. And then all of a sudden, the possibility is introduced of, oh, but perhaps God's holding out on me. So, in Genesis 3, it's this.

00:27:04 Speaker_02
So, Abel gets this thing. What's God holding out on me?

00:27:07 Speaker_05
Yeah. Is there, so yeah. Does that mean I don't get, well, what is it that I don't get? The favor? What does that mean for the future? Does that mean, In the same way that, did God say, the snake says, did God say, don't eat from any tree? No, he didn't.

00:27:22 Speaker_05
It's a limited perspective. Limited perspective.

00:27:25 Speaker_02
Do I trust that God is good? And even though my brother's experiencing something I don't get to experience, do I still trust that in the end... There are also good things for me, too. There's good things for me, too.

00:27:39 Speaker_02
What about when Paul says, though, Abel, I love Cain, I hated... Esau. Oh, that was Esau. Jacob and Esau.

00:27:45 Speaker_05
Actually, Jacob and Esau becomes, through design patterns, a really deep exploration of the Cain and Abel story. of the two brothers. See how I got them mixed up in my head. Yeah, exactly. They're so mapped onto each other. Yeah, that's right.

00:28:00 Speaker_05
However, it's also clear that when Paul's quoting there, he's quoting from Malachi, which is refracting back onto the Genesis story through the lens of the whole history of Israel.

00:28:13 Speaker_05
Because in Malachi, Jacob and Esau are tribal names of the whole tribes. So, dude, Cain and Abel, through Jacob and Esau, become, all develop through design patterns, the stories Israel versus the Edomites through the story.

00:28:28 Speaker_05
And when Paul or Malachi looks back on the Cain and Abel story, they do so through the lens of the whole story of Edom and Israel, Jacob and Esau, Cain and Abel. and as if it's one thing, because it is in the final frame of the Hebrew Bible.

00:28:45 Speaker_05
And the loving and the hating, I think presently, at least as far as I understand that, it's a hyperbolic contrast.

00:28:54 Speaker_05
Just like... Because that language makes it difficult for me to go... Oh, oh, actually here, because, actually here, where Malachi is getting the Jacob I love, but Esau I hated, is Malachi, dude, the Hebrew Bible is so awesome and complex,

00:29:09 Speaker_05
It's actually using the language of how Jacob treated his two rival wives, the older and the younger. He loved the younger, but Leah, the older, was hated. That's a line in the Jacob story. He loved Rachel, but Leah was the hated one.

00:29:27 Speaker_05
Which doesn't mean he disliked her.

00:29:29 Speaker_02
It's a way, I think it's a... Doesn't mean there was like all this animosity between them.

00:29:33 Speaker_05
Yeah, I think it's a Semitic turn of phrase. At least I think.

00:29:38 Speaker_02
It's another way to say he showed favor on one and not the other.

00:29:40 Speaker_05
Yeah, it's a way, that's right.

00:29:42 Speaker_02
So could you in that Hebraic turn of phrase say that Cain was hated and Abel was loved in this story?

00:29:51 Speaker_05
I think so. I think so.

00:29:53 Speaker_02
But not in the modern English way that we talk about hate.

00:29:56 Speaker_05
Exactly. At least I think that's the case. I could be wrong about that. I need to think about it more. Either way, Cain feels like he's being hated on in our English sense of the word. He clearly feels that way. He's downcast. That's right.

00:30:11 Speaker_05
Maybe to use our party parable, it would be that the host comes out and brings a special hors d'oeuvre plate for the birthday boy. And then everybody else is like, what's the deal? Like, why did they get that special plate?

00:30:26 Speaker_05
Yeah, I know, I've got all these other plates here that are available to me too, but they got that one. Am I gonna get that one? What if I don't? Yeah, is it ever gonna be my birthday? Does that mean the host doesn't like me? Why doesn't he like me?

00:30:37 Speaker_05
I'm angry. I don't know, something like that.

00:30:39 Speaker_02
Yeah. Well, you imagine the party's gone, it's gotten so bad that the host is like, okay, what am I gonna do here? Okay, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm just gonna find someone here at the party. Yeah, that's right.

00:30:52 Speaker_02
Help convince them of the real view of things. Remind them this is a party. Get them living in the right way. I'm gonna hook one of these people up. I'm gonna give him more attention.

00:31:06 Speaker_02
I'm gonna bring him into my living room, we're gonna chat about it, I'm gonna tell him this is the way of a real party, and I need you guys to get on board with me, and then we're gonna go.

00:31:17 Speaker_02
And then everyone else is looking around like, why are they getting all this favoritism? Yeah, why do they get to go into the special room? Yeah, why are they hanging out in the fireplace with the host? Yeah, I want that.

00:31:26 Speaker_05
Why didn't he choose me?

00:31:27 Speaker_02
Yeah. Now I'm angry because they got favor. Yeah. Yeah. Now that's the, that's the cane. That's the cane story of like God spending some extra time with that guy. Yeah. That means he doesn't like me.

00:31:38 Speaker_05
He must not like me.

00:31:39 Speaker_02
His whole scheme is trying to get the whole party started for everyone. That's right.

00:31:45 Speaker_05
That's right. Yeah.

00:31:46 Speaker_02
And the host would be like, Whoa, hold on. There's like, yeah, there's something animating that. Yeah. Yeah. Within you. Yeah. That's a brute problem.

00:31:57 Speaker_05
Totally. And the host is thinking, no, I'm working out a plan to restore the order and shalom to the party for everybody. Just wait a minute. And then the guy's like, no.

00:32:09 Speaker_02
No, I'm taking this in my own hands.

00:32:10 Speaker_05
That's right. Yeah. And then he kills the favorite, the one brought into the room. Which is not going to go well for the party.

00:32:20 Speaker_01
Makes the party even worse.

00:32:21 Speaker_05
Now you got a murder scene. Totally. Okay, so God says to that guy, the murderer, man, you got to get out of here. You leave the party. And so he leaves the building, he goes east. and builds a city, builds his own house with his own counterparty.

00:32:43 Speaker_05
Except things don't go well there, because Lamech shows up to his party and just starts murdering people.

00:32:52 Speaker_02
It's like, I know how you like to throw a party cane. Yeah, totally.

00:32:55 Speaker_05
And then generations keep going by, and then those descendants, it all leads up to the building of the great anti-Eden party, which is the city of Babylon. And once again, God said, be fruitful and multiply, fill the land.

00:33:09 Speaker_05
And what they say is, no, no, no, there's not enough. We got to all get in one place.

00:33:13 Speaker_02
There's a fine line between a party and a mob.

00:33:18 Speaker_05
So let's think this through with the Babylon story. So they say, let's all get together as one so that we're not scattered out there in the land. And then let's build our own city and tower that ascends up to the realm of the gods, the realm of God.

00:33:35 Speaker_05
And let's make a name for ourselves. Let's provide for ourselves. And of course, God knows that that's going to go horribly. And so he scatters them. But once again, it's humans now providing for themselves. We'll make our own city.

00:33:50 Speaker_05
Don't want God to provide us with the party. We're going to make our own party and it will have our name on the front door. It's our city and it's our party. And so the counter- If you can't join them, beat them. Yeah, totally.

00:34:05 Speaker_05
So God scatters, and then his counter is to take one group, again, one person, one line.

00:34:13 Speaker_02
He actually goes to another party and he's like, hey, can you be, can you help me out at this, get this other party back on track?

00:34:21 Speaker_05
Yeah. And so this is the calling of Abraham.

00:34:24 Speaker_02
The calling of Abraham- You're going to have to leave your party that you think is awesome, which is really just turning into a just, a disaster. Totally, that's right. I mean, we can't even, it doesn't even look like anything close to a party now.

00:34:38 Speaker_05
Yeah, your lifespan's gonna be really short if you stay at that party, at the anti-Eden party. So come back to Eden as a new human. Abraham and Sarah are a new Adam and Eve being invited into a new type of Eden.

00:34:51 Speaker_05
And the poem that opens up the Abraham story is exactly that.

00:34:54 Speaker_02
It's like the original party kind of like stopped. It's guarded by Cherubim now. Yeah, right.

00:35:00 Speaker_05
Guess we're all kicked out.

00:35:01 Speaker_02
Yeah. And God's like, we're going to start, but we're going to start again small.

00:35:05 Speaker_05
Yeah. Yeah. Start with one family. And what God says is I'm going to give you blessing, blessing, blessing, blessing.

00:35:10 Speaker_02
This is the able figure. This is the person who... Abraham? Able. Yeah. It's as a type. The one who gets the favor. That's right. That's right. Who then is Abraham. Correct. Who is Jacob. Yep. Is the one who gets the favor. Who is the second born. Yeah. Always.

00:35:29 Speaker_02
Yeah. Which is also interesting. Yes. Okay. And it's not because God is being more generous to one than the other. It's that he's got a plan.

00:35:37 Speaker_05
He's got a plan and he's going to start with one.

00:35:40 Speaker_02
He's going to start with one.

00:35:40 Speaker_05
Because the promise that he makes to Abraham is, I'm going to bless you, bless you, bless you, bless you. And the last sentence of the poem is, and in you all the families of the earth will find blessing. But he is starting with one.

00:35:51 Speaker_05
And that's, again, we're back to the mystery of biblical election, which is God is on a mission to restore blessing to all if they want it. And he's going to start with one.

00:36:04 Speaker_05
But his selection of that one presents an ever-present choice for all those around. Of envy, of coveting. Of envy, of anger. And that's what's being explored in every generation of the book of Genesis.

00:36:17 Speaker_05
There are people starting with Cain and Abel, actually starting with humans. There are those observing around, looking at the one God's chosen to be the vehicle of blessing for all. The people, the onlookers are faced with a choice.

00:36:30 Speaker_05
And in every generation, there are those who choose jealousy, anger, and violence.

00:36:35 Speaker_02
And God's response to- Think of the Joseph story. I did every, sorry, go ahead. Oh, and his response to Cain is just do the right thing.

00:36:45 Speaker_05
Yeah, yeah. If you do good, you will be lifted up, he says. Yes.

00:36:50 Speaker_02
You'll be exalted. Which is not what you want to hear when you're feeling like you're being left out of the party. Like, I don't know, like if I'm feeling unloved, it doesn't seem like what I want to hear is just like, just do the right thing.

00:37:06 Speaker_02
But it's interesting that that's what God tells them.

00:37:08 Speaker_05
Yes, Genesis 4-7, isn't it true that if you do good, lifting up, this is in Hebrew, hyper literal Hebrew, isn't it so that if you do good, lifting up, exaltation.

00:37:20 Speaker_02
If you do good, you'll be lifted up.

00:37:22 Speaker_05
Yeah, that's right. The point is that you'll be exalted too. I'm favoring your brother right now, but there is exaltation for you as well. Just trust me and do the right thing.

00:37:32 Speaker_02
Just keep party on.

00:37:33 Speaker_05
Just party on. All I'm asking you to do is enjoy the party. I'm really enjoying this parable. Everybody, thank you for listening to this episode of the Bible Project podcast. Today's show was produced by Dan Gummel. Theme music is by the band Tents.

00:37:57 Speaker_05
The Bible Project is a crowdfunded animation studio in Portland, Oregon. We make all of these videos and resources and podcasts. It's all available for free because of people like you and your generous support.

00:38:09 Speaker_05
So thank you guys so much for being a part of this with us.

00:38:13 Speaker_00
Hello, my name is January Suyate Godoy. I'm from the Philippines, but I live in Okinawa, Japan. I use the Bible Project with our Asia Pacific Nazarene Youth International page on Facebook, and I share the videos there for our young people.

00:38:28 Speaker_00
What I like best about the Bible Project is the overviews of the books of the Bible. I read the scripture using the app, and so it's really nice to watch the video first,

00:38:39 Speaker_00
It really helps me understand all of the chapters easily with the background in mind. We believe the Bible is a unified story that leads to Jesus. We are a crowdfunded project by people like me.

00:38:54 Speaker_00
Find free videos, study notes, and more at thebibleproject.com.