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Episode: Exploring Life-Saving AI Tech with T-Mobile for Business
Author: Pushkin Industries
Duration: 00:52:04
Episode Shownotes
How is 5G powering the use of AI to revolutionize life-saving solutions? Malcolm sits with T-Mobile for Business CMO Mo Katibeh, 3AM Innovations COO Ryan Litt, and the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine's Dr. Azizi Seixas to find out in this special episode of Revisionist History. Brought to
you in partnership with T-Mobile for Business, and recorded live from the Mobile World Congress in Las Vegas.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Summary
In this episode of Revisionist History, Malcolm Gladwell discusses the intersection of AI and 5G technology with T-Mobile’s Mo Katibeh, Ryan Litt from 3AM Innovations, and Dr. Azizi Seixas. The conversation focuses on how these technologies are transforming emergency response efforts, with an emphasis on healthcare applications. Key topics include enhancements in communication for firefighters in chaotic situations, the importance of remote health monitoring for underserved communities, and T-Mobile's role in advancing situational awareness and resource allocation. The discussion also highlights challenges related to data privacy and the need for improved digital literacy among healthcare providers.
Go to PodExtra AI's episode page (Exploring Life-Saving AI Tech with T-Mobile for Business) to play and view complete AI-processed content: summary, mindmap, topics, takeaways, transcript, keywords and highlights.
Full Transcript
00:00:00 Speaker_00
The most innovative companies are going further with T-Mobile for Business. Tractor Supply trusts 5G solutions from T-Mobile.
00:00:09 Speaker_00
Together, they're connecting over 2,200 stores with 5G business internet and powering AI so team members can match shoppers with the products they need faster. This is enriching customer experience. This is Tractor Supply with T-Mobile for Business.
00:00:28 Speaker_00
Take your business further at t-mobile.com slash now. This episode is a paid partnership with T-Mobile for Business. Hello, hello, Malcolm Gladwell here.
00:00:53 Speaker_00
Today, I wanted to share a very special conversation I had recently, hosted by my good friends at T-Mobile for Business, about how AI is changing our world.
00:01:04 Speaker_00
My guests are Mo Kadaba, the CMO of T-Mobile for Business, Dr. Azizi Seychas, Chair of the Department of Informatics and Health Data Science at the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine, and Ryan Litt, COO and co-founder of 3AM Innovations.
00:01:22 Speaker_00
Mo, I know from years ago when we had a fascinating conversation about 5G, when that technology was in its infancy. Ryan is from Buffalo, and we shared a deep affection for the Buffalo Bills.
00:01:34 Speaker_00
And Azizi, as will soon be obvious, is Jamaican, which of course is the surest way to my heart.
00:01:41 Speaker_00
Anyway, we talked about some really cool applications of AI and 5G, and the way really smart people like Ryan and Azizi are using these technologies to solve some pretty hard and fascinating problems. Thank you. Hey, everyone.
00:02:06 Speaker_00
We're all wearing our, should we just put our, I know this is a podcast and you can't see it, but we're all wearing T-Mobile sneakers right now. I see two of us have got the Air Forces and then the others, the Converse high tops.
00:02:21 Speaker_00
So we're all representing the brand, I think, very effectively here. So we're here to talk about AI and 5G, but what we're really here to talk about is something much simpler and more important than that, and that is problem solving. Right?
00:02:35 Speaker_00
All of you guys are people who basically solve problems for a living. And I wanted to start there. And maybe Ryan, you could kick us off. Tell us a little bit about what you do, but then tell us about the problem you're trying to solve.
00:02:50 Speaker_02
Sure. So when we think about emergency events and really at the majority of the world, the primary tool set that firefighters use is a radio to communicate their status to the outside operation.
00:03:06 Speaker_02
And I'm sure we can all imagine, however, you know, winding hallways, dense forests, black smoke, falling debris. Pretty reasonable to expect that people can become disoriented. They can be a bit confused.
00:03:21 Speaker_02
And the issue for a firefighter is when they're confused, inherently, so is the rest of the operation.
00:03:27 Speaker_00
Yeah. Wait, before you go on, Tell us a little bit about how is it you landed in this particular world? Why is it that you're thinking about this problem of the disorientation of the firefighter?
00:03:40 Speaker_02
Well, you know, ultimately when there's confusion, it ultimately leads to injury and sometimes death. So the true inspiration to our origin is in Buffalo, New York.
00:03:51 Speaker_02
There was a convenience store that was on fire and, you know, upon arrival, firefighters quickly got to trying to put out the fire, but the fire itself moved faster.
00:04:03 Speaker_02
So they had to call an evacuation pull everybody out, but they were unsure if everybody got out so they assigned a team to go sweep the facility to try to rescue anybody remaining and unfortunately the structure collapsed over top of them and killed them both and When was this go ahead 2009?
00:04:20 Speaker_02
Yeah, and to make matters worse. There was nobody inside. They were just unsure and And so for us, it's no slight against them, but we just feel like they deserve better tools. There has to be more than what they have, that radio.
00:04:33 Speaker_02
No slight against the radio either. But all of us are here because technology is flush in many other places, and our belief is they deserve to have it too.
00:04:42 Speaker_00
Tell us how that company starts. Does it arise out of that particular incident? Or I'm just curious about how you kind of evolved to the point where you were looking for solutions to that problem.
00:04:54 Speaker_02
Yeah, so I mean that event was in 2009. We officially started in 2017. So there's a time and distance between those two things.
00:05:04 Speaker_02
My co-founder, Patrick, is a volunteer firefighter, and he was constantly educated that if career firefighters, which to be clear for everybody, they are getting paid and work as a firefighter every day, but volunteers typically have a day job, and then they get called to an emergency event in the middle of it.
00:05:22 Speaker_02
So the message was, if the career people can make mistakes, We're definitely going to be prone to making mistakes. So let's learn from this.
00:05:31 Speaker_02
And so Patrick kind of lived with that for years in education and felt, come on, I got this iPhone in my pocket. There's got to be something more. And finally, by 2017, technology seemed to go in a place that made sense.
00:05:44 Speaker_02
And he had to find a partner to help him do it. And that's why we ended up pursuing it from there. So our original intent was to build technology to, you know, help them in these emergency events.
00:05:56 Speaker_02
The hard part, though, is an emergency is inherently chaotic, unpredictable, right? And all of a sudden we think, okay, we're just going to repurpose technology that already exists and afford it to the fire service.
00:06:07 Speaker_02
Instead, we're at the edge of technology actually pushing on capabilities that, according to colleagues and people that we worked with in NASA and DHS, didn't exist.
00:06:16 Speaker_02
So, for example, like tracking someone's location when they are GPS denied, you know, helping communication to be shared when you are communication denied.
00:06:25 Speaker_02
It turned out that not many people around the world were doing it, and at which point we said, uh-oh, this is going to be a lot more of a difficult endeavor than we had anticipated. So that's the origin of why we're here.
00:06:37 Speaker_00
Is there, this is all super interesting, and I wanna come back in more detail after we've gone down the panel a little bit, but one thing I wanted to talk for you to talk about just a little bit so we understand this.
00:06:48 Speaker_00
When you have a kind of fire that's out of control, the specific issue that you were trying to solve is that once someone, a firefighter, entered the facility, you lost track of where that person was.
00:07:01 Speaker_00
And there was no existing system in place that would allow you to easily track that person. 100% correct. Is it because the fire had destroyed any kind of infrastructure that might make that possible?
00:07:19 Speaker_00
What's particularly hard about tracking someone in the middle of a burning building?
00:07:30 Speaker_02
Well, circumstantially, it wasn't necessarily the case that comms are necessarily completely blown out. Not always the case, because sometimes the radio system continues to function.
00:07:39 Speaker_02
There are so many dynamics to the situation that for you to give someone a tool that you say universally will help you, is a very precarious undertaking, right?
00:07:50 Speaker_02
You have to handle in a large structure like we're in now, in a small structure, in a suburban area, in remote areas, in wildland fires and such, right?
00:07:59 Speaker_02
And it has to work on all of those places in order to work for a firefighter, because the modern firefighter experiences so much, right?
00:08:06 Speaker_02
So, chasing those problems, fundamentally difficult, a lot of data, a lot of error, and you push hard to make sure that it's purpose-built. So, I think this is where the AI portion of our discussions make sense.
00:08:22 Speaker_02
It can help to interpret a lot of inputs and give us some simple surfacing and understandings that we can leverage from there.
00:08:30 Speaker_00
Yeah. Mo, I want you to respond to Ryan. And I'm curious whether, when you started on this road, did you imagine you'd be having conversations with people like Ryan?
00:08:43 Speaker_03
I was certainly hopeful. Being able to serve the first responder community is such an important undertaking. Every single day to protect you and me, our families, our communities. And from a T-Mobile for Business perspective,
00:09:01 Speaker_03
how can we take this incredible best in the nation 5G network and how can we harness some very specific capabilities to bring to life a solution that serves the first responder community and companies like Ryan's 3AM.
00:09:20 Speaker_03
And just a few weeks ago now, we launched what we call T-Priority.
00:09:27 Speaker_03
which brings not just the network, which has 40% more capacity, which means more firefighters and police and EMS showing up at a location, are able to get on the network and do what they need to do. But then something that we call a slice,
00:09:44 Speaker_03
which is really a fancy technology term, which is, hey, can we create a traffic cop, if you will, a capability that as first responders are getting on the network, that not only gives them the access to the network, priority access, and then preemption access to essentially bump, if you will, a commercial user off of the network, and that's been around for,
00:10:12 Speaker_03
you know, four, five, six, seven years at this point, but can we give them the ability then to manage that traffic and dynamically allocate the amount of capacity on the network to the first responders so that in these sorts of scenarios where
00:10:30 Speaker_03
Extreme congestion can be occurring, you know, like a train derailment or a massive natural disaster Etc that we can essentially give up to a hundred percent of the network over to the first responders so that they can save lives Yeah, I want to I want to return to that but I want to talk a little bit too is easy You are tell us what you?
00:10:54 Speaker_00
Tell us your title, your job.
00:10:55 Speaker_01
So I currently serve as the interim chair for the Department of Informatics and Health Data Science, and I'm the founding director of the Media and Innovation Lab. And I co-lead Sleep on Circadian Science, and I lead Population Health Informatics.
00:11:10 Speaker_01
So not to be funny, but As a Jamaican, we're known for multiple jobs. This is at the University of Miami. It is at the University of Miami.
00:11:18 Speaker_00
But you're a doctor by training.
00:11:20 Speaker_01
I'm PhD. I'm a clinical psychologist, but I lead many of the efforts at the university to lead digital transformation.
00:11:29 Speaker_01
And so I was recruited from another large institution when I was at NYU School of Medicine to lead this effort at the University of Miami.
00:11:41 Speaker_01
And the reason why it's important is because the University of Miami really serves as the academic epicenter of the Southeast, particularly in Florida and Miami in particular. is really considered the gateway to the Global South.
00:11:58 Speaker_01
For those of you who are not familiar, the Global South represents 80% of the world's population. Yet, as a euphemism, they're oftentimes seen as the poorest, less resourced, particularly in health care.
00:12:12 Speaker_01
And so I was brought to lead that effort to create models that would be able to serve not just South Florida, but how it could be translated to similar socioeconomic deprived communities throughout Florida, and then use it as a model to really do this in the global South.
00:12:32 Speaker_00
Yeah. At what point during your career did you realize that what you wanted to do was use technology to solve problems? I mean, you have a PhD in clinical psychology. You're not looking at AI and 5G when you're doing your PhD.
00:12:47 Speaker_01
Well, you know, so great question. So when I realized that technology was important was when I realized that many of the most vexing healthcare challenges that we saw in my own family, my grandmother who raised me.
00:13:05 Speaker_01
And we realized that there was just significant lack of resources. She had insurance, but what we saw was a significant gap in the continuity of care.
00:13:16 Speaker_01
And extrapolating her experience to what I see when I go to barbershops, beauty salons, and faith-based organizations, because we're one of those folks who we like to be in the community.
00:13:28 Speaker_01
that we don't believe in this sterile brick and mortar healthcare because we believe healthcare needs to be more.
00:13:34 Speaker_01
And what we found out was that in order for us to meet the challenges that our nation and our globe sees, that we either need to train a whole lot more healthcare practitioners, which we still need to do,
00:13:47 Speaker_01
But that was not going to be sufficient to close that gap in good time. So what we realized was that technology, though it is not a panacea that can cure all, was going to be the means by which we were going to be able to, one, provide the cure.
00:14:03 Speaker_01
that so many people desperately need, but also to provide adjunctive and supportive and augmentative care to healthcare providers.
00:14:12 Speaker_01
And so technology became the means by which it would allow us to really extend our tentacles into places beyond that we thought were unimaginable.
00:14:23 Speaker_00
Give us a specific example of a moment where you realized, oh, this is a nut we can only crack with technology.
00:14:30 Speaker_01
Yes. So we created our own remote health monitoring solution called the Mailbox. And we were funded to do some really novel research looking at cardiovascular health in urban and rural areas. And so like most scientists, we
00:14:49 Speaker_01
don't care about, you know, accolades per se, we just wanted to do the work and we did the work. And then COVID happened. And we went into someone's home because we would typically send out technicians.
00:15:02 Speaker_01
I remember because she's part of a study and because of HIPAA compliance, I can't say her name, but we'll call her Miss Jones. Ms. Jones is a 60-year-old African-American woman, lives in Brooklyn. And we called her and said, Ms.
00:15:15 Speaker_01
Jones, such and such will be coming down there to do the study. And she said, hey, honey, you ain't coming here at all, because I ain't trying to get the rona. And that allowed us to realize that how can we flip it?
00:15:30 Speaker_01
And that's what really spurred us into action quickly to create a remote health monitoring solution, knowing very well that it can be used for people. It's oftentimes said that since 2016, there are about 140 million emergency department visits.
00:15:49 Speaker_01
And there are about 60% of global deaths that can be attributed to non-communicable diseases like cardiometabolic health. And what are the biggest drivers of that? no health care, right? And people don't have access. So when we went to someone like Ms.
00:16:05 Speaker_01
Jones and what we've seen bear out in our studies and what we've seen, we've seen another woman who she lives in government housing in Florida, and she would always go to her landlord because she had these respiratory illnesses.
00:16:19 Speaker_01
And the landlord will push her aside and say, No, nothing is wrong. You're trying to evade paying your rent. And she's like, no, there's something wrong with me. You need to change something. And she was part of our study.
00:16:31 Speaker_01
And we have, as part of our remote health monitoring solution, an air quality device. And she was able to use that to show to her landlord that there was something significantly wrong in terms of mold. And so look at this.
00:16:45 Speaker_01
Many of us live in environments that we just trust that it has the right environment, it has everything.
00:16:52 Speaker_01
Even if you have healthcare, and what we wanna be able to do is to put a wearable on the environment, put a wearable on individuals, and it is facilitated through technology so that we can quantify, so that we can show and prove, so that we can further empower our patients.
00:17:11 Speaker_01
That's just one example. There's another example as well. And another woman who lives in a rural area in Florida and went to the physician, like most of us, and we get all of these printouts on our lab work, and we don't know what they mean.
00:17:26 Speaker_01
Let's be real. And not to knock on my colleagues, but you will be very lucky if someone goes through with you what each measurement means, right? So this is what happened.
00:17:40 Speaker_01
This woman went to her provider and the provider said, I think something is up with your heart. Something is up with your heart. Now this is a woman who works two jobs, has three kids. So she was like, what should I do?
00:17:52 Speaker_01
Well, you should go ahead and see a cardiologist. Didn't provide the necessary handoff at all. And so here is it that we drop the ball as a community, that this lady just went off and just said, well, I guess something is wrong with my heart.
00:18:06 Speaker_01
We'll see, I'll go to the ER, which is why we have so many ER visits. And so what she was able to do by wearing one of her rings, she called us angry. She said, Dr. Seixas, your device is waking me up every 10 minutes.
00:18:21 Speaker_01
I don't want to be part of your study anymore. When we looked at our command center and we saw what was happening, this lady's oxygen levels were dropping below 80 percent. So what we ended up doing, we said, you know what?
00:18:36 Speaker_01
We don't care about healthcare and insurance right now. We have a study physician. We connected her and she was able to see a cardiologist in no time. She called us crying, saying, thank you very much.
00:18:47 Speaker_01
Because if she hadn't gotten that intervention, she probably would have died and she would have left her kids orphans. This is what we see in black and brown families all the time. It's not just a healthcare issue. She had healthcare.
00:19:01 Speaker_01
But how are we able to connect the dots and we believe through technology?
00:19:05 Speaker_00
We can have a physical in a box to do that her and I want to come back to right same question Let's talk about the technology here.
00:19:12 Speaker_01
Yeah, I
00:19:13 Speaker_00
You gave her a ring. Yeah.
00:19:16 Speaker_01
Describe this. Yeah. I mean, I have the ring here, but it's a ring that measures what we call cardiopulmonary coupling, big terms. Here's what it means.
00:19:26 Speaker_01
Typically, what happens is your respiratory system, your lungs, operate in conjunction with your circulatory system, your heart. What ends up happening in between that physiology is so many things.
00:19:41 Speaker_01
And that's where we believe many of the illnesses that get undetected, that's where they surface and they surface mostly in your sleep. So you will never feel those symptoms at all.
00:19:53 Speaker_01
So what we were able to do through the ring, measuring cardiopulmonary coupling, because your watch doesn't do that, because your watch only measures one or the other, we are able to measure the two and we're able to measure how the two interact and connect with each other.
00:20:08 Speaker_00
So this ring, is this a off-the-shelf thing or something you guys built?
00:20:12 Speaker_01
We're trying to get it off the shelf, but it's more of a medical device. And dare I say, it's not this or any other, but it's not as expensive as others. We've worked with some other proprietary. It is not as expensive.
00:20:24 Speaker_00
So you wear this ring and then it's connected.
00:20:27 Speaker_01
to what? It's connected to a cell phone that we provide. So it's tethered. So when you fall asleep, you hit start, and it starts to measure. It can measure if you're at risk for sleep apnea.
00:20:40 Speaker_01
It can measure if you have significant oxygen desaturation, lowering the levels.
00:20:47 Speaker_00
And that data is coming back
00:20:49 Speaker_01
Yes, so that data comes back to the command center that we are able to see. Which is at the University of Miami. Which is at, yes, in our group at the University of Miami.
00:20:58 Speaker_00
And how many patients do you have on, for example?
00:21:01 Speaker_01
Yeah, so right now we're piloting this in our research studies, so we have 1,500 participants. African American and Hispanics in urban and rural areas. And we've partnered with community health centers, federally qualified health centers.
00:21:15 Speaker_01
Oftentimes, academic centers are the ones who are the ones who've waved the flag of technology. What we said at the University of Miami is that we have to do more, that it is our vocation and it is our mission to really be that supporting force.
00:21:35 Speaker_01
So we work with the largest free clinic in the state of Florida.
00:21:41 Speaker_00
We'll be right back with more from the panel. The most innovative companies are going further with T-Mobile for Business. Tractor Supply trusts 5G solutions from T-Mobile.
00:22:03 Speaker_00
Together, we're connecting over 2,200 stores with 5G business internet, powering AI so team members can match shoppers with the products they need faster.
00:22:15 Speaker_00
Together with Delta, T-Mobile for Business is putting 5G into the hands of ground staff so they can better assist on-the-go travelers with real-time information.
00:22:24 Speaker_00
By leveraging the nation's largest 5G network, Delta aims to improve operations across nearly every part of the journey, from check-in and boarding to departure, arrival, baggage handling, and beyond.
00:22:38 Speaker_00
Tractors Supply, Delta, and T-Mobile for Business are all passionate about connecting people and places, while delivering exceptional customer experiences along the way. These partnerships are paving the way for unprecedented innovation.
00:22:53 Speaker_00
Learn more about taking your business further by visiting t-mobile.com slash now. We're back with Mo Kadeba, Dr. Azizi Seychas, and Ryan Lidd. So walk us through how you use technology to answer those questions.
00:23:10 Speaker_02
I think that the place that we start, and as some of us in technology, because myself, you know, I'm probably more of a technologist, it's to start with the person first, right? To observe, to understand, and then augment.
00:23:25 Speaker_02
But ideally, we always say complement, not complicate. So, if there's something that's already available, if there are tools that are already there, can we listen to those tools so that it can feel seamless to the first responder?
00:23:37 Speaker_02
The last thing we want them to do is be playing with new tech and buttons and other things to make their jobs even more complex.
00:23:43 Speaker_02
So, we sought to make a more integrative solution, which therefore, 5G and software and these sorts of things start to form because it makes sense to do. We've thought a lot about bioindicators, like the doctor's talking about.
00:23:59 Speaker_02
Cardiac arrest is still one of the greatest killers in the fire service. Detecting blood oxygen levels would be amazing, because if we could capture those things as a precursor, we could draw those individuals out before it's too late.
00:24:12 Speaker_02
The hard part is, is the stressor. It's such a high-stress environment.
00:24:16 Speaker_02
that we need the technology to get to a point where it can actually give us that accuracy when we need it and not tell us after the cardiac arrent has already happened, oh, you know, this person's about to have one.
00:24:27 Speaker_02
So for us, we look at interfacing with other technology, but inevitably what got interesting is phones had a role to play.
00:24:35 Speaker_02
and in a couple of different ways, one of which is the compute, all the things that phones can do for all of us in our daily lives, those are great assets and tools for the fire service.
00:24:45 Speaker_02
Right now, they literally have that radio I explained before and rarely much else. So an example, again, we're human-centric, so we stay with people, we embed in fire stations, and I was following a fire chief.
00:24:58 Speaker_02
And the alarms went off, and we went off to an emergency event. And I watched him as he pulled out two radios, turned each one to a different channel, placed them against his ears, and looked up at the event and proceeded to manage it.
00:25:11 Speaker_02
Manage it, in other words, keep it safe. you know, mitigate the emergency, right? Thankfully, everything was all clear. Nobody got hurt.
00:25:19 Speaker_02
We went back to the station and I asked him, hey chief, have you taught yourself over the years to listen to two conversations at the same time? And he's like, nah. He's like, the intensity draws my attention.
00:25:30 Speaker_02
So he listens for the intensity of the voice to say, this might be something it's time for me to listen. That's fascinating. Yeah, and the thought process was coming home, driving back to our headquarters in Buffalo. It was a bit of a drive.
00:25:41 Speaker_02
I thought, computers don't have ears, right? What about the idea of opening up a phone and allowing the phone to listen to as many conversations as may be happening at any given time? And maybe take it a little further.
00:25:55 Speaker_02
Instead of just listening for intensity, we can actually listen to that conversation and interpret it. And that was literally the dawn of us starting to use AI.
00:26:04 Speaker_02
And, you know, when we think about other tools, what other tool do we have that can fundamentally bring that to someone?
00:26:09 Speaker_00
Just so I understand, we're at a complex fire scene. We have multiple firefighters, multiple people talking on radios. The guy in charge has got to make sense, has to coordinate all the things going on. And you're saying,
00:26:23 Speaker_00
We could have AI listen to all of those conversations simultaneously and do what exactly? Prioritize them? Summarize them? How does the AI interface with the human decision?
00:26:36 Speaker_02
Yeah, so the nice part is you can teach it for what you want to listen for. So a lot of times there are operative words of concern that are communicated. They want to know when certain indicators happen.
00:26:47 Speaker_02
But let's be honest, the real thing that most people are looking for is when the firefighter is under duress, when the firefighter is at risk of a loss of life. So Mayday and these types of situations are pretty consistent.
00:27:00 Speaker_02
So the way we think about it is we take the communication standard operating procedure. How do people communicate officially through these radio systems? When do we know it's bad? Let's teach the AI to listen for that.
00:27:12 Speaker_02
And then that way we rise to the top. We have a software interface, of course, and the chief will see someone just said something that is of concern.
00:27:20 Speaker_02
They turn red, they glow, we show them where they're located, and then the chief can take it from there.
00:27:25 Speaker_00
So the chief's looking at his phone, or is he?
00:27:27 Speaker_02
So the chief is actually looking at a tablet. A tablet. Just because you want a little bit more surface area to kind of be able to.
00:27:34 Speaker_00
In real time, the tablet is tracking everybody and prioritizing the person who is in most distress or under the most stress.
00:27:41 Speaker_02
Yes, and then the other nice part with the phone, because of the amount of data that's available, we can localize people in three-dimensional space. So we can actually show where they exist
00:27:51 Speaker_02
in the world but inside even a given structure and with height considered. So that's where we fuse these things together.
00:27:58 Speaker_02
So we use some of the capabilities inside the phone, all the sensors, all the networks, and we can say, hey, this person's up here. Oh, by the way, through the AI, they said something that you need to know about.
00:28:08 Speaker_02
So now we can really localize, this is where that person exists, and then from there, they can decide what they want to do there.
00:28:16 Speaker_00
Mo, I'm listening to these, to Ryan and Azizi, and I'm seeing, so here are people in very specific corners of the world. taking these technologies and doing very, very practical things with it. I'm curious, how does T-Mobile interact in this?
00:28:35 Speaker_00
Are you a cheerleader? Are you an instigator? Are you the person who helps them? There must be obstacles. You're changing the way people do business. I'm curious, does T-Mobile play a role in how would you characterize your partnership?
00:28:53 Speaker_03
At the end of the day, what we love to do is to visit with business customers on what's your challenge? What is the heart of what you're trying to accomplish with your solution, your product, your service?
00:29:09 Speaker_03
How can we build capabilities in and around our network that really support that? So as an example, and I can touch on both of the use cases that have come up in the last few minutes, but talking about Ryan and 3AM for just a moment.
00:29:26 Speaker_03
I love the conversation really oriented around, hey, as you think about your platform and the situational awareness that you're trying to give the chief or whoever's doing command and control of that specific situation, how can we leverage both devices, whether it's wearables that give you
00:29:45 Speaker_03
Insights if a person can't even talk perhaps smoke inhalation and they've they've fallen and okay now I need to know hey, they're not moving How is that information coming back using the devices for things like both near field?
00:29:57 Speaker_03
communications and barometric pressure which has been a
00:30:00 Speaker_03
in the phones for six, seven years, again, at this point, that lets you know, hey, not only the x and y-axis of where they are, but how many floors up on a building are they, which is incredibly important for firefighters.
00:30:14 Speaker_03
And then over time, we're also going to be enabling API access into the network. We've announced this. It's coming out in the near future, which will allow
00:30:26 Speaker_03
the 3AM platform to enhance all of the capabilities they already have around things like even more precise location, quality of service. Hey, I'm in the building, it's burning.
00:30:37 Speaker_03
I need to dial up the network resources to support everything that's happening there. It's the number one thing. What does API mean by the way?
00:30:45 Speaker_02
Application Programming Interface. Thank you very much.
00:30:48 Speaker_03
It's basically, in plain English, a way of building a door so that someone else's platform can come knock on the door, the door is opened, and we give them very specific capabilities on things that they can do with network resourcing in real time.
00:31:05 Speaker_03
Quality of service, location, application support. It's the next generation.
00:31:12 Speaker_00
We have this complicated thing, situation happening, and at various moments, we want to use as many resources as possible to answer very specific problems. You're making sure the necessary network resources go to the right place at the right time.
00:31:30 Speaker_03
Exactly. All of these at the heart of it, setting aside the technology, is ways of ensuring that you're diverting or allocating the right amount of resources to a given use case,
00:31:42 Speaker_03
So that the first responder, or the doctor, or the mobile network that's enabling this clinical health at scale, no matter where you happen to be in America, is available for them to be able to do that thing.
00:31:56 Speaker_00
I read this study recently, a couple weeks ago, maybe no less than that. Some of you may have seen it. It was some study talking about an AI diagnostic tool for doctors. Did you guys see this? And it's like,
00:32:10 Speaker_00
Arm number one was a doctor all by himself does a diagnosis and they're like 72%, right? Arm number two is doctor plus AI and it was 77. Arm number three was AI alone and it was 92.
00:32:25 Speaker_00
And the conclusion of the study was we gave doctors these tools and most of the time they didn't wanna use them. So I'm curious about that problem in your worlds. When do you get pushback?
00:32:39 Speaker_00
Are you sure that you've given a marvelous suite of tools to people out in these fields? Do they use them? Is there a roadblock there?
00:32:47 Speaker_01
And if so, what is it? I can comment on that. So I know that study very well because there are some of my colleagues who did that work. Oh, really? Yeah. So here's In terms of pushback, definitely.
00:32:59 Speaker_01
And I think in healthcare, one of the things that we get pushback around is around data privacy security. That is huge. Particularly for, you know, information technology departments. But what we have done, because we know that
00:33:14 Speaker_01
that there is going to be some, this is disruptive technology, and we have to be able to better socialize it.
00:33:21 Speaker_01
We have led an entire year of what we call innovation retreats at the University of Miami, so that we can give it to them in bite-sized format so that they understand that it's not just focused on the technology, but how is it that we can actually help to solve what they're doing.
00:33:40 Speaker_01
And so when we brought... It is they that you're talking about, clinicians? Clinicians, and not just clinicians, because I think when you're talking about healthcare, let me just kind of deconstruct.
00:33:50 Speaker_01
Behind that provider, you have administrative staff, billing, you know, scheduling, all of those people who are critical to ensure the operations. And particularly some of those operations are very mundane.
00:34:06 Speaker_01
and very time-consuming and it collects a lot of data. Therefore, as a result, it can lead to tremendous amount of error.
00:34:14 Speaker_01
What we're trying to do and what we did was to lead this digital innovation, transformation, set of retreats, focusing on the problem, trying to understand what their pain points are, and then have the technology come second or have the technology come last.
00:34:31 Speaker_00
Give me an example of what someone's pain point might be. What's an objection you would get?
00:34:36 Speaker_01
Yeah, so for example, digital literacy. Some providers, unfortunately, are stuck in their ways. They believe that they want to feel and touch the patient as they should.
00:34:50 Speaker_01
And we're not saying what we're proposing is we're not saying that they shouldn't do that. But I think some of them have a form of technophobia as well.
00:35:01 Speaker_01
And by digital literacy, I'm talking, they may feel as if they don't know or they may not be as facile in working some of the technology. So we really pare it down for them. And I think that's some of the technology. I think some pushback as well.
00:35:16 Speaker_01
I think many people, especially in the community that we serve, many people believe And it's an important issue that access is a huge issue for their patients. So they may say, well, my patient doesn't have a cell phone.
00:35:28 Speaker_01
And I'm like, we push back and said, actually, the Pew says 92% of the US population, particularly low income folks, actually have a smartphone or some form of mobile device. No, it's a different thing.
00:35:42 Speaker_01
when we're talking about, do they know how to use it? Do they know how to optimally use it as well? And this is what we do as well. We provide training to patients as well as to how to use it as well. So those are some of the unique pushbacks.
00:35:54 Speaker_01
And then obviously data, where do my data go? And providers ask those questions as well. And I think this is why having very robust, secure environments is important. And so similar to what we do, especially with the mailbox,
00:36:09 Speaker_01
We have about seven or so devices that they were not built to communicate with each other. So the API is another thing and we call it handshakes.
00:36:18 Speaker_01
And what we try to do is we said we wanted to create a remote health monitoring solution that's like the Walmart version. Because typically when you look at remote health monitoring solutions, they're very expensive and quite preparatory.
00:36:31 Speaker_01
We want providers and we want providers and patients to be empowered that you can bring your own device. whatever device you have, as long as it actually has the necessary API connectivity, then we'll be able to collect those data.
00:36:44 Speaker_01
So those are some of the pushbacks that we have experienced.
00:36:47 Speaker_00
Ryan, do you, surely this must be, I mean, you're entering a field that has been fighting fires in the same way for a very, very long time.
00:36:57 Speaker_02
Yeah. Hate the way things are, but hate change probably even more. That's their saying, not mine, I promise. The first place that it started was absolutely social media.
00:37:07 Speaker_02
The biggest fear in the fire service about even bringing a phone into the mix, or let's call it a smart device, is the propensity to share this information publicly. But the reality was, I reminded them, when you go to a supermarket,
00:37:19 Speaker_02
You know, the kids that are ringing up your groceries, that's a Windows computer, but they're not cruising around on social media. We can configure the device to only do the thing you want it to do. So we can take advantage of the capability.
00:37:32 Speaker_02
So that was the first obstacle. And now that we deal with AI, the big one is hallucination and inaccuracy, naturally. Well, great, I like this idea, but what happens if it's wrong?
00:37:43 Speaker_02
And I think to quote a chief that I work with at the Philadelphia Fire Department, he actually wrote his thesis on leveraging AI in the Philadelphia Fire Department and beyond.
00:37:55 Speaker_02
and his argument was decision support, not to make the decisions for you, not to ask it and you shall receive and just do what it says, have it go retrieve the things that you need.
00:38:07 Speaker_02
So this concept of augmented retrieval, giving it domain-specific knowledge, here is something about what you're dealing with, let me go find the best information and present it to you, so that you can decide from there.
00:38:19 Speaker_02
I think those bits are the essential and then lastly, absolutely for all of us is security. So, the nice part is Microsoft and some of these groups have made sort of enterprise contained AIs.
00:38:29 Speaker_02
So, we're not dispersing this throughout some central knowledge. This is specific to the fire department, which in our perspective helps accuracy to go actually up.
00:38:38 Speaker_00
But when you go out on a, someone from 3 a.m. goes out on a sales call, you go and visit a fire department somewhere and you say, we have this whole set of ideas to solve some problems for you.
00:38:50 Speaker_00
You have your conversation with the chief who you've never talked to before. What does the chief say?
00:38:56 Speaker_02
The chief is immediately, any single time it has to do with safety of their firefighters, they're obviously compelled to listen. The hard part, I think really, is how much change is this gonna bring to my organization?
00:39:07 Speaker_02
In other words, how much friction is me implementing this technology gonna bring?
00:39:12 Speaker_02
And so one of my proudest moments, which sounds super innocuous, we did the 4th of July, and it was hundreds of people, and they all forgot they had the device, and I was super happy. Right, because it became invisible.
00:39:24 Speaker_02
And if we can do that, you know, the obstacles are sort of overcome, right? So the idea of automation and streamlining all of this contextually, just put the smart thing in your pocket, don't worry about anything else, that's our fundamental goal.
00:39:38 Speaker_02
And that's the way that we overcome those objections.
00:39:41 Speaker_00
All these innovations have multiple constituencies.
00:39:45 Speaker_02
Right.
00:39:46 Speaker_00
right? And Mo, I wonder if you could sort of opine on this. This must be a kind of perennial issue for anyone who's like T-Mobile, who is driving innovation, is to ask yourself, who's the customer here, right? Do you have these
00:40:03 Speaker_00
Do you face this kind of tension between, is it important to clarify who we're serving with this innovation before you go down the road towards pushing the innovation?
00:40:14 Speaker_03
It really goes back to, if you will, selling through curiosity. Meaning, when you're sitting down with the customer, you're trying to understand what it is that they're trying to accomplish. And is it for their employees?
00:40:29 Speaker_03
Is it business to business to consumers? Or is it to their end consumer that they're trying to solve the problem? And then designing the solution to meet that need. Going back to your AI study example just a few minutes ago,
00:40:45 Speaker_03
Like this is what I love about what we're here today to celebrate is unconventional thinking which inherently is What is to the left of me here today with you know, dr. Azizi and Ryan is Individuals that looked at the industries in which they were working and thought there is a better way I don't care how our industry has done it before and can I build something that drives that outcome?
00:41:11 Speaker_03
I mean with dr. Azizi Clinical studies invariably have been at a some central location. And what that means is that marginalized groups, underserved groups were being underserved.
00:41:27 Speaker_03
And so the problem statement was, hey, can we bring together low cost medical devices, stitch them together with a connectivity solution, which then in real time will send that information back.
00:41:42 Speaker_03
One, so that we can learn more on how to better serve these groups, but in the case of the cardiac patient that you were talking about a little bit ago, also save lives.
00:41:51 Speaker_03
So that's the heart of it for me is I love, love, love visiting with businesses that are thinking Unconventionally innovatively and then how can we build something with them to drive?
00:42:07 Speaker_03
The outcome which may be the business or in this case is the the end person. That's part of the clinical trial.
00:42:13 Speaker_00
Yeah Two two last questions were sadly running a time, but two last questions are both of you. I'm curious about How you measure success? So you Ryan you've given this
00:42:27 Speaker_00
marvelous tool to people in very high stress situations and intuitively We would say you've made You've made their the job of the of the fighting the fire better easier But how do you know?
00:42:44 Speaker_00
How do you know that's true a and how do you know how much you've improved? I mean, do you actively go out and collect and data or feedback or something from the field to understand the magnitude of the impact you're having?
00:42:58 Speaker_02
That's a great question. I get really fired up because competitors or people in the space throw vanity metrics around. They try to tell first responders this is how much time and how many lives they're going to save. That's a ridiculous concept.
00:43:13 Speaker_02
It's all relative. So to your question, for example, I was at a major event. It was actually a marathon. So there are a lot of medical issues, people that go into cardiac arrest and over exhaustion.
00:43:27 Speaker_02
And there were code blues, which means this person is critical. If we don't get them to the hospital immediately, they will likely die. And immediately they go the tool.
00:43:37 Speaker_02
And to your question, as you brought up earlier about screens and distraction, we are infinitely obsessed with that. The reason why I think automation and AI is interesting is because it can be in the background and there when you need it.
00:43:48 Speaker_02
That's how we view it.
00:43:49 Speaker_00
So in this instance, the tool selling is putting the code blues at the top.
00:43:53 Speaker_02
Well, so they're putting it up, code blue gets called in, they immediately look at their people on the map, and typically they would have emergency resources that are assigned to specific areas for an event, and you would just say, okay, send, you know, ISP2, that's where they're gonna go.
00:44:08 Speaker_02
But instead, they're all the way three blocks down, and now that you've made that assignment, it's gonna take them three blocks to get to the patient.
00:44:15 Speaker_02
By the time you get there, oxygen's been denied from the brain for too long, and we've lost the patient. Right.
00:44:21 Speaker_02
So instead they say no no, no ISP 3 you turn around I literally watched them and they coached them back and that incident commander looked to me goes your tool has been instrumental today So those are those moments where we saved a lot of precision the precision with which you can this you can allocate resources to the problem is greater here
00:44:40 Speaker_02
Yeah. So, in those moments, those are those things that sort of matter, right? And to your question, though, on how do we sort of bring it back to people to show them the impact it's driving, again, I think usage creates value.
00:44:54 Speaker_02
The more you use it, the more it's valuable to you. Why? Because we actually document all data for all events forever.
00:45:02 Speaker_02
and then what you can do is you can scrub through it and go back in time from years ago and say, what happened at exactly the three-minute mark on this particular event?
00:45:10 Speaker_02
You can pause it, almost like the matrix, and spin it around and look at it, look at all the information that was presented, and that becomes mission critical for evolving your best practices, things of that nature.
00:45:23 Speaker_00
It becomes a learning tool then. Yes. In addition to its real-time importance, it has a retrospective importance. that you can leverage that data to kind of figure out how to do a better job.
00:45:33 Speaker_02
And the big piece that I think will triage into Azizi is that our greatest goal here is a safe first responder, you know, is a safe society, is our safe communities. If we keep them safe, the rest of us are in a much better position.
00:45:47 Speaker_02
The sad part is the average life expectancy of a firefighter is 61 years of age. Cardiac arrest being a big driver. Cancer is really crawling up there, though. And we have a lot of other terminal diseases that come later in life, right?
00:45:59 Speaker_02
So our goal is over time throughout your career, because we capture all of this data and because we could cross-reference with medical professionals exactly as Aziz is talking about, hey, you spent a thousand hours in that facility that has now been discovered to contain carcinogens.
00:46:15 Speaker_02
Now the medical practitioner can do things on a preventative care standpoint so that we can get ahead of that. and make sure that firefighters live a long and healthy life, you know? So to me, that is that ultimate goal.
00:46:25 Speaker_00
Yeah. ZZ, I'm almost more interested in you responding to what Mo was saying about decentralization and why that's, I think that's actually a lovely place to end this conversation. Because it does strike me, as I've listened to both of you, that
00:46:46 Speaker_00
There is something, there is a real revolution here in the way data is being collected and used and how we're learning from it. But the decentralization piece is, has a kind of social and, almost political importance, right?
00:47:04 Speaker_00
It's like, it's something higher. So talk a little bit, this is what you've managed to do. You've now decentralized the collection of medical information from people and the conduct of studies.
00:47:14 Speaker_00
What does that mean for fairness in society, for the quality of the data we're collecting, for the way people perceive the medical care system? It's a big deal.
00:47:25 Speaker_01
It's huge. That's a great question. Thanks for asking. We believe that most of healthcare occurs outside of the brick and mortar healthcare. And what would oftentimes happen is that we would get these findings that are artifacts.
00:47:40 Speaker_01
So, for example, if you go to, you know, your provider and your blood pressure is high, Are you considered hypertensive or is it just artifactual, right? Because of the fact that, you know, people are stressful and the like.
00:47:54 Speaker_01
What we know we're doing is that we are actually connecting the dots in between visits, what we call real visits. world data. We want to study the human being in the wild, not in some kind of artificial setting.
00:48:09 Speaker_01
And that allows us to be more fair, but it also allows us to be far reaching as well. Why? One of the things that I hadn't shared and I'll share this now is that at the end of this, we're going to be creating digital twins of each person.
00:48:24 Speaker_01
What does that mean? we can know exactly what someone's biological algorithm is based on sensing data as well as blood work that we're collecting. What does this mean? It means that we can anticipate what comes next or even before it happens.
00:48:40 Speaker_01
But from a fairness standpoint, this allows us to really get into all crevices, all the areas, all underserved communities that were left by the wayside. So for us, metrics of success, I've never led a study where the recruitment has been so great.
00:48:58 Speaker_01
And this is why one of the biggest journals, Science, learned about what we're doing and wanted us to document that. Because typically, when people innovate, they innovate for the haves and the have-mores.
00:49:10 Speaker_01
We fundamentally believe that if we innovate for the have-nots, that it will allow us to scale much better and it will have far more reach and more applicability.
00:49:21 Speaker_01
So from an ethics and an equitable standpoint, so that's why we dubbed what we call health-tequity. right? We've been talking about this with the American Heart Association.
00:49:30 Speaker_01
It's a real deal, though, that we believe that at the intersection, at the nexus of equity and technology, that we could exacerbate health care issues or it could be cured. We could mend it. And we are saying that we want to be the ones.
00:49:48 Speaker_01
And so for us, here's what we're doing already. We're screening people for Alzheimer's disease much earlier using augmented reality where we can determine if someone is going to get Alzheimer's disease six to 10 years before age of onset.
00:50:02 Speaker_01
We're providing virtual reality solutions to black and brown moms. who have notoriously been known to have a huge epidemic in maternal mental health and maternal health. We're providing that to a slew of folks.
00:50:16 Speaker_01
We're reaching out and providing it to over 3,000 kids in the state of Florida because 68% of families don't live near a licensed mental health practitioner.
00:50:26 Speaker_01
And we're also building the next generation of technologists and healthcare providers so that we now can have a provider who can listen. Because typically when you go to your provider, what are they doing?
00:50:39 Speaker_01
They're writing notes and there's no eye contact. Now we can use AI and ambient technology to capture all of those data so that your provider can be with you more in a more human way. And that's what it will allow us to do.
00:50:55 Speaker_01
So that's how we measure metrics of success. And I think that's where the ethics lies as well. Restoring the humanity. in medicine. Oftentimes people think that when you use technology, that it actually effaces the human.
00:51:10 Speaker_01
What we're trying to do is that we believe that technology can allow us to make healthcare more human again, restoring the soul and reclaiming the soul of healthcare through technology. That's our thesis.
00:51:23 Speaker_00
Yeah, it's really beautiful. Thank you.
00:51:26 Speaker_00
I will say just one last note The whole time you guys were talking I was having these kinds of absurd Fantasies about how I as a I'm a parent of two girls how I could use both of your technologies to helicopter parent my
00:51:47 Speaker_00
I'd give them a wearable that would monitor everything. I'd be listening to all their conversations, and I'd walk around, Ryan, with one of your tablets, and they would just highlight if there was ever any kind of problem.
00:52:02 Speaker_00
This has been absolutely fascinating. I feel we could have gone on and on and on for another hour, but I think what you've done is just given us a little glimpse into how human ingenuity is using technology in utterly unexpected ways.
00:52:21 Speaker_00
And I think that's, it's a beautiful story that needs to be told and I'm glad we're telling it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this special episode brought to you by T-Mobile for Business.
00:52:41 Speaker_00
Special thanks to our guests, Mo Kadeba, T-Mobile for Business' Chief Marketing Officer, Ryan Litt, Chief Operating Officer and Co-Founder, 3AM Innovations, and Dr. Azizi Seychas, Chair of the Department of Informatics and Health Data Science at the University of Miami School of Medicine.
00:53:00 Speaker_00
And special thanks to the entire production crew at iHeartMedia. This episode was produced by Nina Byrd-Lawrence with Lucy Sullivan and Ben Nadaf Haffrey. Editing by Karen Shikurji. Mastering by Sarah Bruguier.
00:53:14 Speaker_00
Special thanks to Lou Carlozzo for on-site recording. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith. I'm Malcolm Gladwell. The most innovative companies are going further with T-Mobile for Business.
00:53:45 Speaker_00
Together with Delta, they're putting 5G into the hands of ground staff so they can better assist on-the-go travelers with real-time information. From the Delta Sky Club to the JetBridge, this is elevating customer experience.
00:54:00 Speaker_00
This is Delta with T-Mobile for Business. Take your business further at t-mobile.com slash now.